Clean Water Works
CLEVELAND, OHIO: From the Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District, an in-depth and fun conversation led by Donna Friedman and Mike Uva on any and all topics related to clean water, wastewater treatment, stormwater management, and the people, projects, and programs serving Lake Erie and our local waterways and communities.
Clean Water Works
Lakeview Dam and Rethinking Urban Stormwater Management
Clevelanders might not know about a massive concrete structure hidden within Lakeview Cemetery. Standing 89 feet tall, Lakeview Dam represents both a marvel of 1970s engineering and a relic of outdated water-management approaches. Stormwater Program Manager Kim Colich gives some background on this imposing structure and explains how modern modeling and technology allow for different flood-control solutions today.
Beyond its engineering significance, the dam has gained fame as a filming location for Captain America: Winter Soldier and attracts curious tour groups. But its future remains an open question as water-management professionals balance flood-control needs with ecological goals and financial sustainability.
Whether you're fascinated by Cleveland history, engineering challenges, or environmental restoration, this look at one of our city's most impressive yet least-known structures reveals how our relationship with water continues to evolve.
Revisit our interview with Elaine Marsh on the Gorge Dam removal.
Learn more about the Doan Brook Restoration Project near Horseshoe Park at https://www.neorsd.org/doanbrook.
Lakeview Dam.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:One of Cleveland's hidden treasures, really.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Lots of theories. Do we know who really built Lakeview Dam?
Speaker 2:Is this like the pyramids? Was it actually the aliens?
Speaker 3:It's there. There was built by someone, I think I saw a History Channel special on this.
Speaker 1:Does anyone really know?
Speaker 3:Yes, there are construction photos.
Speaker 2:We do know that it was done in 1978. I was thinking of something else Got it.
Speaker 3:There's actually data about it being constructed. So no, not aliens.
Speaker 1:It's in a cemetery too local cemetery.
Speaker 3:It is yes.
Speaker 1:Clevelanders and visitors to Cleveland may not be aware that the largest totally concrete dam in Ohio is in Lakeview Cemetery here in Cleveland.
Speaker 3:Yes, that's correct.
Speaker 1:This is Clean Water. Works I Lakeview Cemetery here in Cleveland?
Speaker 2:Yes that's correct. This is Clean Water Works. I'm Mike.
Speaker 1:Uva and I'm Donna Friedman, and this is a podcast about.
Speaker 2:Clean water.
Speaker 1:Kim Kolich is a stormwater program manager here at the sewer district.
Speaker 2:Kim's going to talk to us today about.
Speaker 1:Lakeview Dam.
Speaker 3:We'll start there. We'll see where it goes.
Speaker 1:Tell us about your job. What?
Speaker 3:do you do here? I manage the design, construction, inspection and maintenance and strategic support of our regional stormwater management program. So, all those pieces of the program.
Speaker 2:That's a lofty amount of goals there.
Speaker 3:It is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, are you stressed?
Speaker 3:No, you know why? Why? Because I have fantastic people oh my gosh Working for me. It's true, it's amazing the talent we have within our group, really within the sewer district, but I see it every day in the work that all of those groups do to support and improve the stormwater system here in our service area.
Speaker 3:And when you say pieces and parts, you're talking about streams and we have crossings, culverts under roadways, we have dams, as we'll talk about a little bit later natural sections, culverted streams where we have a large pipe, where the stream was put into a pipe for development purposes over the decades, mostly probably in the mid-1900s different pieces of assets that basically convey stormwater through our system. And those are the things that we manage, inspect, maintain, replace, if necessary, improve to reduce flooding, improve water quality.
Speaker 2:Kim? Why are you an engineer? What led you down that path, where people like you're really good at math and science? So you should go be an engineer and you're like cool, sounds good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think family peer pressure Is that peer pressure? If it's family, I don't know. Familial pressure, oh, there you go. That's what it was. I didn't know what I wanted to do and, to your point, I was good at math and science.
Speaker 2:My dad was a material science engineer brother was going to Purdue for computer, electrical engineering and it was like oh, so it was like it's in the genetics of your in the genetics or the culture of my family whatever it is.
Speaker 3:And they said, kim, you're good at math and science, you should also do that. I said, sure, that was my level of excitement at the time and I thought, but what kind of engineering do I want to do? And that's where I was really able to figure out what is something I'm interested in. Right, it was environment and at the time, right, it was water quality. It was landfills believe it or not, I was so interested in landfills, let's design some landfills. It was climate, it was the ozone layer, right, I mean, at the time in the 90s right Like all these things.
Speaker 3:And so I said, oh well, environmental engineering is a part of civil engineering. At the time it was. I think now it's a little more separated, but it's very overlapping. And so, yeah, I went into civil engineering because of the environmental piece of that.
Speaker 1:Dams are part of our regional stormwater system.
Speaker 2:We have a few we do. How many class one dams do we have?
Speaker 1:We have six. Oh, can we name them?
Speaker 3:Can we name them All. Right, you want to start, donna? Okay.
Speaker 2:Forest Hills Dam.
Speaker 3:Horseshoe Lake.
Speaker 2:Dam. Okay, karoosh, cleveland, hollenbeck Dam. Ooh, that was what are we at? Oh wait, lakeview Dam and Lower Shaker Lake Dam. See, we did it.
Speaker 1:Six dams, six class one dams yeah, class one. What's a class one dam?
Speaker 3:So the Ohio Department of Natural Resources is the regulatory agency responsible for dam safety in the state of Ohio, and they have classifications of different types of dams, class one being the largest and or highest risk dams in the state. And so those are the ones that either have a large height of a dam, a large storage volume behind the dam or, in our case, in our service area because we're in an urban environment dams that have a potential loss of life or high risk if they are to fail. What would happen downstream? I mean any time a dam fails, there would be some impact, but the question is, what is that impact to life and property?
Speaker 2:right.
Speaker 3:And so those are the things that ODNR looks at to determine the classification of a dam.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about this one, Lakeview Dam.
Speaker 2:And this dam is actually owned by the sewer district.
Speaker 3:Yes, it is the only dam in our service area that is owned by the sewer district.
Speaker 1:Why was it built? What's its?
Speaker 3:purpose. Why is it there?
Speaker 1:To bury mobsters.
Speaker 3:I cannot confirm or deny.
Speaker 1:Is that a real thing?
Speaker 2:That's what the rumors are. There's a rumor about— that the Lakeview Dam is so big because there's mobsters buried in it.
Speaker 1:Oh, within it. Within its concrete Mm-hmm, I think mobsters prefer to be called something different these days, oh.
Speaker 2:I think that's Politicians. It's going to be good. So what stream? Is Lakeview Dam on it?
Speaker 3:is on Dugway Brook, which is a direct tributary to Lake Erie, meaning that it doesn't flow into another creek before discharging to the lake. A lot of our tributaries flow to the Cuyahoga River before it enters Lake Erie. This one is a direct tributary on the east side.
Speaker 2:And Dugway is a pretty highly manipulated stream. There's a lot of it that's been culverted because it is within our most urban area. That's sad.
Speaker 1:So they culvert over the stream so they can put buildings and such roads, yeah, as one does. Why this particular location, right there in the cemetery?
Speaker 3:I think that when you're looking at a location to impound water to reduce flood risk downstream, you're always looking at a location that has a high drainage area, especially if you're looking at a structure that's going to be so large because you're going to be impounding a lot of water behind it. So finding a location further down in the watershed where you have a lot of drainage area and the hydrology makes sense, also a steep section of Dugway, which this is within also makes sense because the actual inundation area of that impoundment is limited in area, although what you do have is the depth, so you'll be able to get that volume of storage without impacting or flooding out other assets. Being in a steeper ravine is a good location. My understanding is that there were some floods that had happened both at the cemetery and downstream of the cemetery. There may have been some lawsuits and the settlement was let's create this impoundment, this dam, in order to hold back water, to fix the flooding issue that was happening.
Speaker 1:And they really went for it. They made the largest concrete dam in Ohio. Has it ever reached capacity or been used to its capabilities?
Speaker 3:So I believe the dam is 89 feet high. Yeah, with my conversations with our inspection maintenance group with George Remia so I know who he's been on the podcast they believe that the highest they've seen is like 25 to 30 feet of water impounded on the upstream side.
Speaker 3:You know, as Donna had mentioned, about culverting of the natural systems upstream. Because that was done, we have such a flashy, quick-moving system when it rains that all the water moves quickly and so by the time it hits the dam there's a lot of it right, because it had no ability to soak in, to spread out, to be stored anywhere upstream, and so it does have an impact to flood issues downstream of the dam. Given what we know today, I would say they overbuilt it. Yes, but I think our ability to model these systems with the technology we have, as well as the software, has allowed us to be more accurate in designing these systems. But back in the 70s you needed to make conservative assumptions just to make sure you weren't underdesigning something. We have been able to refine our models with data collection and the great software and computing power we have today in order to understand those systems better. So it wouldn't be designed like that today.
Speaker 2:It's just completely different how we model now Imagine the paper, maps and people drawing drainage boundaries, you know. Right and now we're using LIDAR Light detection and ranging creates 3D models of an environment. When they're looking at land cover, that's the type of map that they would overlay. Based on what's refracted, so you shoot the light down. Refracted, so you shoot the light down. What's refracted will give you the level of imperviousness, so you can see what is a forest versus what is like a city, urban area.
Speaker 1:So, based on some previous podcast conversations, I've come to learn that dams are generally frowned upon now.
Speaker 3:Yes, I would agree with that. I think that every location and every problem area that we're trying to find a solution for has potentially different solutions. While we were going through our stormwater master plans, which is kind of like our roadmap to figuring out how we're going to be managing our system long term and what projects to do, an engineer from a consulting firm said I can solve this problem by constructing a 30-foot dam right here in the middle of a natural creek. I understand you're solving a flooding problem by doing that. There are other ways to reduce flooding in neighborhoods or reduce the risk that happens from flooding other than building a 30-foot dam. That is going to impact ecosystems, habitat. It's going to disturb the sediment transport of a natural stream. There are so many negatives to constructing a dam that we would look at every other way to solve the problem without that right Creating green infrastructure or smaller regional neighborhood detention upstream, anything to avoid putting that impoundment within a natural creek or stream or river, and there's different uses for dams too.
Speaker 2:Yes, so you have power generating dams, you have dams that are created to store water, as far as, like, reservoirs are concerned, but in this use I think it's kind of falling out of favor.
Speaker 3:But in this use. I think it's kind of falling out of favor. Yeah, I think so. No-transcript function. It was originally constructed for, and probably doesn't serve, any other function for flood mitigation. So if there's an opportunity to remove it, that would be great. I think one of the great examples of that is the Gorge Dam on the Cuyahoga River that was created or built for hydroelectric power and it hasn't been used for hydroelectric power for decades. There are a lot of people working very hard to try to get that dam removed now, to remove the last impoundment really on the Cuyahoga River, which will be fantastic for those things, like I mentioned before the ecosystems, the habitat and honestly in that location, for recreation, because the fall, the habitat and honestly in that location for recreation, because the fall, the actual elevation drop in that section of the Kye River is amazing and you know there's apparently going to be, you know, rapids that kayakers and canoers and everyone else can kind of recreate on, which really opens up all kinds of possibilities.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and listeners interested in learning more about the Gorge Dam can check out one of our earlier podcasts with Elaine Marsh.
Speaker 2:Yes, who now has a tunnel boring machine named after her. One of the other things that I think about now, as we move into our stormwater program further, is these legacy dams and the cost burden moving forward alongside the regulations. Right, so the regulations have changed and adapted and as we've gotten better modeling and our standards are just simply higher, I think our design standards are higher. Those two things kind of come together and so it's like is it really worth it? Is it worth it to build and maintain brand new dam structures when you could have other features that maybe are more self-sustaining, especially now when we're seeing some of these dams that are falling apart?
Speaker 1:They just cost so much to maintain.
Speaker 2:They cost so much, and that's additional financial burden.
Speaker 1:How much does it cost to maintain the Lakeview Dam?
Speaker 3:Since 2013,. It looks like we've spent about $800,000 on maintenance of the dam. That's what 12 years. This dam is not just a big slab of concrete. It's got mechanical HVAC drainage systems.
Speaker 3:It's a very complex structure with lots of moving, not too many moving, but lots of parts that have to be maintained, making sure that all the drains that are in and around the foundation of this dam are functioning properly, because what happens if you're not removing that groundwater or water from underneath the dam is that it can start to have an uplift pressure on the dam and make it unstable. Another thing we have in the dam to make sure that the dam is stable is we have plum monitors to show that there hasn't been any shifting or movement in the dam, and so that gives us further assurance that nothing has been changing as far as the structural stability of the dam. So there's so many pieces involved in the dam besides, like I said, just a big hunk of concrete.
Speaker 2:Would we ever take down Lakeview? We don't have to talk about that.
Speaker 1:What would be the benefits of taking down the dam?
Speaker 3:Removing an impoundment on Dugway Brook. It would be great, I would love to do it. We would have to understand what the impact of removal of that dam would have downstream and then mitigate for those increased risks downstream. You know, one of the things we do in our program is sometimes we remove risks right and sometimes those risks are homes, and so we have mostly a voluntary property acquisition program where if we feel like we either would like to have the property for a project or that it floods currently and we want to remove that risk from the system, then we move forward with those conversations Because mitigating for the risk sometimes is better in the long term because you don't have the cost of the future risk than trying to install something that's going to cost you way more in the long term.
Speaker 2:It's a hard decision, especially with Lakeview Dam. Is within compliance right now, trying to install something that's going to cost you way more in the long term?
Speaker 1:It's a hard decision, especially with Lakeview Dam is within compliance right now.
Speaker 3:Correct and it is serving a function, even if it's overbuilt and it's a tourist attraction and people love tours, right, I think generally there's just always an interest. There are people requesting tours of the dam and even like Boy Scout groups and other community groups that want to go see the dam and understand its function. Maybe the listeners know that the Winter Soldier parts of that were filmed in Cleveland, including at Lakeview Dam.
Speaker 1:Captain America the Winter Soldier right the Marvel Cinematic Universe Winter. Soldier was filmed there and at one of our wastewater plants Southerly Correct Wastewater plants.
Speaker 3:Correct. So if we removed it we wouldn't be able to be in the movies anymore.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:To your point, lakeview Dam is in good shape, it's in compliance. So ODNR does dam inspections every five years and part of the last report recommended us to do a full dam assessment in order to determine if any additional maintenance or repair needs to be made to the dam to keep it in compliance, let's say, 50 years from now. There needs to be a decision. Do we reconstruct this dam Probably be much lower than it is today, right as far as height goes or do we remove it altogether and mitigate for those increased risks that are happening downstream?
Speaker 2:And that's the point of the master plans, right, master plans are living documents. I would say you know we're always doing advanced planning and reanalyzing areas and I think you know we wouldn't take the dam down without knowing the impacts and we would be mitigating impacts before we did that. So our stormwater program has 57 communities in it. How do you prioritize the needs of all of those communities?
Speaker 3:Part of our scoring criteria is has there been a project in this area over the last five years?
Speaker 3:So we take that into account as we're going through this, that into account as we're going through this and many listeners may know that our communities receive 25% of the rates that their residents pay. They can use that money for their own projects in their own communities. I think that's a great way to make sure those dollars are being reinvested back into every community. The other thing we're now starting to look at is making sure that we're providing great solutions, but we're also providing solutions that are cost effective, right, because our dollars can only go so far and there are some projects that are very costly, and so how do we make sure we continue to get the smaller projects included? To get the smaller projects included, what is the cost per risk reduced? Right? So we can hopefully try to also focus on the projects that give us the best impact from a, let's say, from a flood mitigation perspective, for the lowest dollar value, to really help us also better figure out how to spend our money.
Speaker 2:So the tenants of our regional stormwater management program as we can, all the tenants. Not tenants like living in a building.
Speaker 1:Tenants, tenants, tenant.
Speaker 2:The tenants of the regional stormwater management program are flooding, erosion and water quality. Where does safety tie in Safety?
Speaker 3:ties into all of them. Go on. If something's flooding, it's not safe. If something's eroding, that means the water's moving really fast, right, and that can be a safety issue as well. I was staring at you because you were staring at me, and I'm like am I not answering this right? Is she like? What is she?
Speaker 2:saying Okay, here's my thing.
Speaker 3:I think sometimes.
Speaker 2:I receive a lot of calls from residents asking why Not as many as we got when the program originated. But I think that there is this question about why are we paying this fee? But I think something that maybe doesn't get talked about enough is how big of a factor safety is in everything that we do. We're doing these projects so that your residential street isn't flooding or so that your house isn't eroding into the stream.
Speaker 3:Flooding is a huge safety concern for everyone involved. Parking lots at Sam's Club railroad underpasses. Cars get stuck there. People get trapped in their cars not a good situation. So anything we can do to improve those situations where they're happening or at least start analyzing why they're happening and how we can reduce the risk for people in those cases then yeah, that's absolutely what we do, especially as concerning projects that are focused on flood reduction.
Speaker 2:Kim, you started in the private sector yeah, yeah, I spent the first 15 years of my career in private consulting.
Speaker 3:So right out of school had my engineering degree and started working for a private consulting firm. I worked on Department of Transportation projects in Ohio and Indiana. I worked on small rural water and wastewater systems, did a lot of water distribution, sewer collection, wastewater treatment plant design. I mean so many varied things within the civil engineering kind of field that I think it gave me such a great foundation to be able to come to the sewer district and feel like I had the experience and knowledge and ability to really make a difference.
Speaker 2:I feel like sometimes people go from private to public or vice versa. But how come you made the jump?
Speaker 3:I wanted to feel a sense of ownership over my work and feeling like being a part of something. I love Northeast Ohio, I love Cleveland. I spent a lot of time not in this area, but coming back here and living here. It's like a sense of place for me and I felt like I wanted my career to also have that similar sense of place. Being able to see projects from the first thought planning all the way through construction, through maintenance especially in the role I have now being able to see all of those phases of a problem area or project is really impactful to me and it gives me purpose in what I do in my career. And so I think that's what I was looking for feeling like in the way I wanted to make an impact. I could make a larger impact on the public side in working for an owner.
Speaker 2:I think it suits you. The public side and working for an owner I think it suits you. You do have a large staff and they see that compassion and that drive for public good and you set a very good example.
Speaker 1:Thank you, Donna. What's a project you're really excited about that you're working on right now.
Speaker 3:There's only one right answer I'm excited for all of them, mike. I am excited for all of them, mike. Okay, I am excited for all of them. I am excited for the transformation at Doanbrook Restoration Project. Near Horseshoe Park, we will be removing the failing dam and then, within the old lake bed, we will be restoring the two branches of Dome Brook that historically ran through there. I am starting to see these renderings of what this project will look like and it starts getting me inspired and excited about all the work that we've done to get us to this point. And thinking that we could be bidding this project by the end of the year and constructing next year just gets me really excited.
Speaker 1:Kim Kolich is Stormwater Program Manager here at the Sewer District. Thank you, Kim, for joining us.
Speaker 3:Thank you Mike, Thank you Donna, Thank you.
