#75 Overcoming Imposter Syndrome to Land More Accounts

Have you ever successfully arranged to pitch to a potential buyer but as you were driving to the meeting, allowed your fears to overpower you, resulting in you not showing up and missing out on an opportunity to grow your business?

Janessa Rutter has.

It's likely many of you can empathise with the fear that Janessa has grappled with. As a Foodpreneur striving to secure shelf space through successful pitches, she has often been plagued by imposter syndrome and a tendency to ‘play small’ when it comes to her brand Bask & Co. This detrimental mindset, however, needs to be overcome, as it prevents talented, hardworking food and beverage entrepreneurs with amazing brands from successfully scaling their businesses, and ultimately living life on their terms. 

In this week’s episode of the Foodpreneur with Chelsea Ford podcast, Janessa candidly shares her journey, how she’s overcoming imposter syndrome and how it’s helped her get Bask & Co on more shelves.

We go through what YOU need to do to back yourself, overcome imposter syndrome and take your business to where it should be, including:

💪 Getting out of your own way and taking the emotion out of the business.
💪 Detaching your personal emotions from negotiations, even when your business is deeply intertwined with them.
💪 Triumphing over the fear of rejection and learning not to internalise 'no' as a personal failure.
💪 Streamlining daily decision-making by reducing the number of questions.
💪 Exploring the concept of putting on a 'mask' to boost your confidence and "fake it till you make it."
💪 Working with intermediaries to help your business growth if you don’t like the ‘sales’ aspect.
💪  Gaining the confidence to negotiate on margins.

LINKS & RESOURCES

• Your Free Pitch Plan
• Waitlist for Foodpreneurs Formula Coaching Program
• Bask & Co website
• Bask & Co Instagram 
• Bask and Co Facebook  
• Foodpreneurs Festival 

If you haven’t listened to episode 74 (51 mins), ‘Moving from DTC (Direct to Consumer) to Wholesale’ listen here.

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Transcript

This is the Foodpreneur with Chelsea Ford Podcast. Welcome foodpreneurs to episode number 75. Have you ever got a pitching opportunity and not gone to it overthought what needs to happen or stayed operating on a small scale despite the vast opportunities in front of you? 'cause you were scared. Today I am talking with Janessa Rutter, founder of Gluten-Free Granola brand, BaskandCo. And she's done all of those things. Janessa speaks to me candidly about what it's been like to play small and how now she's learning to get out of her own way and depersonalize business negotiations and not let the nose stop her even when it feels really hard. Janessa is overcoming imposter syndrome and playing a bigger game. And interestingly, there's a correlation that we speak about between building her resilience and landing more accounts when it comes to overthinking and self-doubt. I know Janessa is not alone and that's why I wanted to bring you this conversation because you'll hear Jana's story and how after six years with her so-called expensive hobby, she's playing a much bigger business game and it's paying off and you can do it too.

This episode of Foodpreneur with Chelsea Ford is brought to you by my pitch plan. If you are preparing or need prepare what to say to a wholesale buyer, download it today. I give you elements that make an extraordinary pitch so you feel more confident on what to say that will give you a competitive edge. This episode is also brought to you by Food Printers Formula, my business coaching program from female packaged food and drink brand owners ready to scale. The final and third cohort for 2023 starts soon, and we're changing things up in 2024. So get in now. If you wanna land more accounts, get your product in more consumer's hands and put more money in your pocket, join the wait list and you'll be the first to find out when doors for enrollment open. Again, the links are in the show notes for both the pitch plan and the wait list.

Hi, I am Chelsea Ford, former industry sales director, award-winning food and drink business expert, head coach of the acclaimed coaching program for Women Foodpreneurs Formula, and your host for this, the Foodpreneur podcast. If you're a package food and drink brand owner, tune in with me each week and walk away knowing how to land more accounts, how to get your product into more consumers' hands, and how to price correctly for wholesale with or without distributors. In each episode, I'm going to tap into my three decades of experience leading sales, marketing, and money teams for big and small food and drink brands to give you coaching tips that will help you take your business to new heights without the overwhelm. I know what works and I know what doesn't. So I'm going to share with you industry tools and insider knowledge that are next to impossible for small businesses to access.

And I'll dive into my little black book to bring you interviews with hard to reach industry specialists, experienced food entrepreneurs and wholesale buyers who will help you solve those pesky industry specific problems like distribution that I know you've been losing way too much sleepover. So roll up your sleeves, food entrepreneurs, because you are about to enter a no fluff zone. I'm bringing my A game so you can reach yours no matter where you are, whether it's in your kitchen, coordinating your deliveries, or on your way to a buyer meeting. Listen up because we're about to set the path for you to secure your next best stock, increase your sales and live life on your terms. This is the Foodpreneur with Chelsea Ford podcast. Janessa. Hello. You know you've been in my world for a few years now and I'm super excited to welcome you to the show.

Thank you so much for having me, Chelsea. I really appreciate it.

Uh, you have a business called Basque and Co or bas and co you tell, um, me about it, what you sell, what you manufacture, and who you are targeting?

Yeah. Okay. Uh, so BaskandCo, uh, it's a gluten-free food brand I guess we say. Um, I started the business in 2016, so it's been going for almost seven years now. Um, we create amazing gluten-free granola. I've also got some gluten-free granola bars that we launched last year in June, so 2022. Um, and I have just launched a brand new gluten-free porridge, which had, uh, has come out in the, about the recent weeks, sorry, so about three weeks ago that one was launched. Mm-hmm. So yeah, just really leaning into the gluten-free, um, food, the, you know, my customers are celiacs and people who are gluten intolerant.

So do you, um, compete with other brands in your category or do you think with Celiacs and people who are gluten intolerance, really they are looking for all sorts of different food groups that you need to consider when you are building out your brand? In terms of the competition?

Yeah, I mean there are, obviously there are other players in the category that do gluten-free options. Mm-hmm. Um, but it's not their main focus. So, you know, the likes of Commons and those sort of bigger ones, they do gluten-free food, but it's not what they're mainly known for. Mm-hmm. Um, I really, that is my main focus, um, and it's, that's definitely why I started the business as well. Mm-hmm. Um, so it is hard to, as I said, I did start with the granola, but it was never gonna be my main focus. Um, when I started the brand I always wanted to sort of venture out and do other bits and pieces as well, but always staying true to the gluten-free. Mm.

Is that, does that mean that you have a personal connection with kind of gluten intolerance, either yourself or family members?

Yeah, that's why I started the brand. So I, about 10 years ago I, um, had some health problems. Uh, I was getting sick constantly, um, infections, just really just unwell. Um, so I went and saw a naturopath for that, who recommended that I would go on a food elimination diet. Um, so I gave that a go cut gluten out from my diet and I just found it was like night and day. I was really, um, able to do a lot of things that I couldn't do before, um, able to work a lot more, which was great. Uh, and I started a Instagram page alongside that. So I started recipe developing and um, creating great recipes that were gluten and sugar free. Mm-hmm. Um, and that's sort of where the BaskandCo baby started. So played around with the granola recipe that everybody loved. Um, and then yeah, accidentally fell into it like a lot of us do, I think. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, definitely through my research, the vast majority, certainly in my network, uh, build a business based on a problem that they're solving for themself or somebody that they love, you know, like their own child's nut allergies or as you so beautifully said, you know, your own kind of health challenges mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, and it makes you such an expert, um, and passionate. So today, in terms of where people can buy your product and the scope for BAS and co, like how big you are, are there parameters that you can share with me? Uh, just to quantify the size of the business and where you're going?

Mm. So I think, I think we appear to be bigger than we are. I do get told that quite often that we seem to be a booming business, but uh, as you know, actually we're quite small. Um, I've got at the moment 40 stockists around Queensland. Um, they encompass, we've got so IGAs and smaller food, you know, sorry, health food stores. Um, so also on the menu of a few cafes as well, so food service, um, and there is a bit of a push online at the moment moment to get it out, uh, nationally, online, which is great. Um, but by

Your own website, so selling online eco, okay. Mm-hmm.

<affirmative> and also, um, supply to a couple of other, um, companies as well. So they sell online for us too. But yeah, definitely online through our own website is going quite well.

Mm. Do you have a favorite channel?

Um, probably online. I do like the whole send an email out and watch the, um, the website go off, which is quite nice. And obviously it's a lot less work that I find it a lot easier than having to approach stores and deal with that, you know, face to face that's a bit less rejection, <laugh> online, which is nice.

<laugh>, yes and no, I guess in my experience <laugh>, but yes, it's very fascinating to watch that when that E D M goes out and then the flurry of activity and the ensuing 24 hours, is that what you find? I normally find it's mostly within the first sort of 12 and then 24 hours that the activity happens. Yeah,

Absolutely. It's quite addictive, I think. Um, especially launching a new product as well, which I've just done recently. So watching the numbers, you know, jump from the previous weeks to after a new product is launched, it's quite, they're quite incredible. Um, and yeah, it does get a bit addictive so I can see why certain brands do, you know, limited edition drops and go in again and again and again to try and get that chase the high I suppose.

<laugh> <laugh>, yes. Yeah, that, that's a perfect example with, of LTOs or limited time offers that they do drive a disruptive message, so to speak. Like I use that term disruptive in a, in a loose way that it's, it's new news, you know, we are addicted to particularly as salespeople, which most food printers aren't, but it makes it easier to sell, I think, when you've got an announcement.

Yes. Yeah, that's it. I think people like things to be fresh and new and exciting.

Yeah. You also touched on, um, you know, how it feels to be rejected in wholesale, and I think that's a, you know, you're definitely not alone there. I mean, it's a such a tough game and food and drink in general is tough, but, uh, it's one of the reasons why we're talking today to help other food and drink brand owners maybe feel more at ease with their own, uh, lack of confidence or, um, sense of imposter syndrome. And, you know, you agreed to chat with me about what it's like, what it's been like for you as you've built that resilient muscle. And I'm just wondering if you can say a bit more about that now on where you came from in terms of taking things personally, um, and how it feels today. And I'm sure it's a work in progress.

Oh yeah, sure. Yeah, I'm, I'm not there yet, but every day is definitely better than the last. Um, like I said before, I, I, I do get told quite often that I do seem to be bigger than I am. Um, and I think a lot of that comes from, I do a lot of work behind the scenes scenes to get the branding great and everything where it needs to be to be a very successful food business. I think the problem is, is that I get to a point where I'm just about to go into a buyer's meeting or just about to do a pitch. Um, and I have a, a very, I dunno, I seem to second guess myself, um, and my ability, uh, quite often. So quite often I'll self-sabotage and either be driving to the store that I'm going to pitch to and decide on the way that I'm actually not gonna go <laugh> and I'll just go somewhere else instead.

Mm-hmm. Um, so it is quite hard to get out of your own way. I've found it very difficult to get out of my, my own head and overthinking the negative thoughts, um, that come with business and rejection. Um, but I have learned that you really need to just take the emotion out of the business. Um, people aren't saying no to you because they don't like you as a person, but it is quite difficult as well being the person who has created the recipes, created the branding, um, it is, I guess, your baby in a way. So it is, it is challenging to sort of take a step back and remove yourself from, you know, the no and why they might be saying no. And they're not saying no to you, as I said, because they don't like you. It's probably because they've got a crowded category and they don't have any room for your skew skews on the shelf. So I think once you take a step back and actually look at it from their perspective, um, it does make it a bit easier to sort of push forward and, and either push back or just accept the No,

It's easier said than done though, isn't it?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's it. I can talk about it now, but at the same time I'll still keep driving past that stockers again next week, <laugh>. Mm

Mm And for the record, you've done a fantastic job at building a very formidable and beautiful and gorgeous brand, and I think you're actually really hitting your strides now. You know, I saw the launch last year of the snack product and this year of the porridge and, you know, maybe it is a case of the momentum is now building, and I'm wondering whether or not there is a correlation between that self-love and self-confidence and the new brands that you've bought out in the last year.

Yeah, I think so. Um, there's been a lot that's gone on personally for me as well. In the past 12 months especially, I realized that I actually get a lot of joy, um, from creating new products and launching, you know, the recipes that have been inside my head for many, many years, just getting them out to the world. Um, but it's also about learning your weaknesses and accepting them and being okay with not being able to do it all. Mm-hmm. Um, I have just recently I'm just about to sign on with a distributor, which I've been pushing, uh, you know, back against for years and years, mainly because I'm in production or have been in production. So it's really difficult to let someone take your margin when you are the person who's baking the granola, and there's obviously a, you know, issue of scale as well. So there's only so far you can grow when you are actually in the trenches in production, um, creating everything. So there has definitely been a bit of a shakeup in my mindset, especially over the last few months. Um, and I really just thought if I wanna give this a decent crack, then I just really need to just push and see how far we can go.

Was there a particular trigger in the change of the mindset in terms of just bringing on a distributor, you know, was the, what was the genesis of that decision?

Um, so I was in talks with this distributor about 12 months ago. Um, and there was just a few things that I needed to change for it to be viable for distribution my products. Um, so I had to work with the food technologist and extend the shelf life of the product because the way it was being made at the time, it just wasn't holding, um, shelf life long enough, which I then have fixed. Um, and yeah, look at, like I said, it was more about, you know, if, if not now than when, so if you just, you just have to take a punt sometimes and just think, I've worked really hard as you said, you know, to establish a, a great, what I think is a great brand. Um, and it's not gonna sell itself when I don't have the ability to walk into a store and sell it. So you just, you know, have to pass it on to somebody else who can

Do you think that you became more aware of? And you talked about weaknesses, but equally the strengths and that it's totally okay for everybody and given yourself permission to say, okay, I'm not a salesperson, I'm a production or a branding person or a whatever, this is my skillset, and it makes a whole lot more sense that if I'm gonna play a bigger game that I need to bring on somebody who's got the expertise in the area that I don't have the expertise in, or frankly don't want to, which is distribution and or selling.

Yeah. Yeah. That's it. And I think we try and wear all the hats, especially in the beginning stages of the business. Yes. Yeah. Um, and I think I held onto that for a lot longer than most people do. I think seven years is probably a little bit too long to try and do it all for, um, especially when there was potential for growth. Um, and I did really stop growth because I didn't, I just couldn't wrap my head around how to do it all and keep growing because there was gonna be a limit there with, you know, how far I could go on my own. Um, so, you know, it's just taking little baby steps, like bringing, you know, I've had to bring some girls in to help me in production and just watching that slow and steady increase and not going, I always say I don't go balls to the wall with my decisions. I take, I like to take small gradual steps and just test things out and just make sure that, you know, it's gonna work. Um, and the more that you do things and take little steps, the, the quicker you realize that these things that you think are terrifying actually aren't that scary and actually is gonna benefit you in business. Um, and sometimes you just have to take a bit of a risk, I suppose.

Definitely. You definitely do. You know, I, I think it could be summed up in a number of ways, but one of the ways that I'll also add for the conversation perspective is, you know, you've gotta spend money to make money or, you know, you, and, and, and often that is around labor, you know, and bringing people on, whether it's sharing your margin with a distributor or paying casual wages to help with production or engaging with a sales agent and paying them, not, not part of your margin, but certainly a commission or a fee. Mm-hmm. Uh, I think it's definitely the way to scale.

Yeah.

Can you articulate perhaps any specific multi any specific opportunities that you feel you missed because of that fear or anxiety or reticence to engage or spend the money or the time?

Um, look, I think nothing's really specifically, I think I've just turned, as I said, you know, I've had distribution interested even without the, the product issue, you know, for, for a few years now. Um, and I think it definitely could have grown a lot faster than it has. Um, you know, the new products, et cetera, that I sort of have launched only in the last 12 months could probably have come out, you know, a few years ago. But I think, you know, every everyone's journey is different. I've also got a little boy as well who I've been raising throughout all this time too. Um, and I think it's quite easy to sometimes not appreciate everything that's life has going on and looking back and just thinking, oh, I should've done this, or I wish I'd done that quicker.

Yeah. Uh, you're absolutely right. I mean, it's, and who's, whose timeline is it anyway?

Hmm. Yeah, it's the, uh, old comparison is a thief of joy. I always remind myself that I always look at other people's lives and think, well, how did you do all of that? What's your background? How did you get do that so quickly? But everyone's journey's different, and I think you, the worst thing you can do for yourself is to compare your journey with somebody else's.

Ah, absolutely. You know, one of the sayings that I like is, um, be careful not to, um, compare your insides with another person's outside. Yeah. And we never know what's going on.

That's it. Especially with social media as well, making it even more difficult to really know what, what's actually going on in someone's life. And you can quite, you know, quite easily look at other businesses even that are, you think you're doing extremely well, but at the same time, who knows what's actually happening behind closed doors.

Yeah, absolutely.

Getting your product stocked is not easy. If a were foodpreneurs would find pitching to buyers a breeze, but hardly anyone does, without knowing what to say to a buyer, how will you ever get on the shelf so that consumers can pick up your product and put it in their basket, and you can put more money in your pocket for every product you sell. Sales and selling is the number one afterthought that Frustrated Food printers come to me about after they've been in the market for a little while and realize sales and selling is crucial to their success. No sales equals no business. It's really that simple. Having a great tasting product is just the very first step because a tasty product alone won't pay the rent or the school fees will it? So do you wanna know what to say in your sales pitch to wholesale buyers? Download my free pitch plan and learn what to prepare when readying yourself to pitch so you feel more confident to take your shot at landing more accounts more often. Click the link in the show notes to grab your copy today,

Janessa, you know, taking, um, a subject that so few people talk about yet it impacts so many people. So I'm super grateful that you are here talking about it with me now. How do you feel when an opportunity, like a pitching opportunity to a retailer comes along? Uh, and then as you said earlier, you drive away. I mean, that's fascinating for me. Do, do you, I'm not gonna put words in your mouth, but I'm desperate to hear what it's really like when you get an opportunity present itself and perhaps you don't lean fully into it for a variety of reasons. Say more.

Yeah, I, um, it's really hard to sort of explain the feeling that sort of goes on in my head before it happens. Um, I'm quite good at just sort of pretending it's not gonna exist for quite some time until right at the moment where, as I said, I'm, I'm driving to the store, um, to pitch to someone perhaps that I've wanted to be stopped in. For example, I've just been arranged recently at a little group that's around Brisbane, who I've been trying to get into for probably about three or four years. Um, I've sent the emails, I haven't had any responses, and to me that that's a no. And so I, I quite often just give up there, but I thought, you know, I need to go into the store and introduce myself and show them my products because that's when the magic happens for me, when people taste it.

Um, but it honestly did take about three years for me to get in the car and actually drive there and just get out of my comfort zone, get out of my own head and walk in and introduce myself to somebody, um, and just try and get the, the products in somebody's hands. Um, and yeah, it's just, like I said, it's just an anxiety thing I suppose that sort of prevents me from stepping over the line. Um, but it's funny, you know, they're just people, right? They're not gonna, the worst that they're gonna say is, sorry, we're busy not today, or, no, thank you. Like, they're not gonna be rude. Um, but yeah, as soon as I got into that store, I then followed up again with another email and within a few weeks I was arranged. So it is quite funny. And, but you know, that's probably not gonna stop me from not going through the same process again with another store, you know, in a couple of months time. So it is just getting out of your own head and, um, and like I said, just really taking the emotion out of it and just realizing that it's just business and people aren't gonna know about you if you don't tell them.

Yeah, it's true. And that's why when people say, I don't like to sound salesy, you know, some, my council normally is, it's a case of influencing people, but even that to some people can sound like a dirty word, but honestly, if you've got somebody who has a need, like a retailer who might want fantastic gf uh, granola, then you're doing them a, a service. Mm. Providing a benefit. Yeah. But it's hard when it's your own work.

Yeah, absolutely. Um, I was speaking to a manufacturer down at LY Good. And he, he said that you can't make the product and sell the product. And I think that's very true because there's such a personal attachment there to the, the recipe. Um, and it, it really does sort of hurt <laugh> when someone says that they don't like it, but you can't please everybody. So,

Yeah, I think that's why artists have agents because you can't negotiate certainly on price as well. It's too, um, it, it, it's too ouchie.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Pricing has probably been another one of my, my issues, uh, throughout the years as well. You know, being competitive, uh, wanting to be competitive, but at the same time, knowing your worth, um, on the shelf is quite, quite difficult, I think, as a small producer as well. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>,

Tell me more about that. How have you gone about it? Um,

Look, I, I've been quite lucky in a way where I've, as I've scaled, I've been able to negotiate really great price breaks on my ingredients. So my cogs, um, my bags, everything. So the inputs that go into the product. Um, so I've been able to, you know, as I've gone up, I've been able to keep my margins very similar. Um, I know especially recently after Covid, there's been a lot of, um, price rises with ingredients, et cetera. I've just been, I guess, very lucky that I haven't had to raise my prices, but it's been seven years. So just recently I did a little price for us on one of my products just to fix, there was a margin issue I'd calculated wrong, you know, back in the beginning, you don't realize if you don't look at the spreadsheets, which I don't like to do, <laugh> <laugh>.

Um, but it was actually just before I went down to food printers and I thought, if I'm gonna be supplying to all these amazing stockers that I'm gonna pick up at Food printers in Sydney, I'm gonna need to make sure that it's viable for me to be selling direct to store, and actually I'm gonna make enough margin to cop the shipping costs. So I went through all my margins and realized that I did actually have to raise my prices. And I also increased the carton size as well for that range. Um, and I think it was, why

Did you do that? Why did you increase the carton size?

Um, well, I think I, I only had six in a carton because I was told once, many years ago that people didn't wanna buy 12 units in a carton. So I thought, okay, I'll meet it halfway. And I, 'cause I could fit nine bags in, in my cartons, so I thought, well, I'll just make it nine if I can fit nine bags and then nicely, let's just go with that. So I thought it was gonna be a really great test pitching to these, you know, companies down there, the stores. And I thought, look, I'll just, I'll drop these numbers and see what happens and nothing they said. Okay, that's fine. So you realize then that all these things you've been holding back on for so long, just outta fear of rejection, that actually they're fine. And talking to other business owners as well, my margins are, you know, they're completely on par with everybody else. You just don't realize, 'cause a lot of people don't talk about the numbers.

No, they don't.

Um, and no one knows, it's all a big secret, really <laugh> of what we should be doing. Um, so yeah, it's just sort of, you know, learning and, and just taking slow, you know, steps as well. I think people are more inclined to accept a, a price rise if there's a, there's a great reason behind it, or b if you know, it's, it's acceptable, it's not a huge, huge jump.

There's a reason why to increase prices on a regular basis, actually, because then you're talking about say, you know, 2% increase rather than when the proverbial hits the fan. Uh, like a cost of living crisis and people have to do double digit growth. You know, some of my, uh, companies that supply me have given me a 50% increase and I just find that absolutely, um, insane. And I'm very willing to walk away from them where I can, uh, whereas, you know, if there's small incremental increases over time and it's definitely what I advocate for. So your customers are used to it, that that's an annual event. It's much easier to swallow, you know?

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, just hearing that it's reassuring to know that it's not gonna be, you know, rejected. I guess I can't reject it, but it's just, yeah, again, it's the process of going, 'cause I do direct to store with all these customers, it's sending all the, you know, the price reviews out and letting everybody know that you are increasing it just yet again seems very overwhelming, <laugh> and a lot of work. So I just leave it as it is. So, yeah, that's, you know, another thing that I should probably be outsourcing is all of that paperwork side of the business as well that I don't enjoy doing.

Mm-hmm. Knowing your numbers. It is, it is key to business, really. Yeah. If you do wanna be a, if you know, if, if one is a business rather, rather than a hobby. And I think just back to your margin comment earlier, you know, I, I talk about margins. I'm very clear on what margins need to be made, but I think with certain, um, retailers, for instance, particularly with the majors, there's no discussion about margins because the margins are so slim more often than not, not always, but often. And, um, and that's fine if you're in a volume game, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. It's just a matter of having eyes wide open about it. Yeah. That's

It. And also margins are a negotiation, right? You just, just because someone wants a certain number doesn't mean it's black and white and that's the way it is, I think. Well, I mean, sometimes you are able to negotiate with them and sort of come to an agreement on things. So just because somebody says one thing doesn't mean that's the way it has to be.

So we're talking today about the recovery from an impo being feeling like an imposter or anxiety, and now we're talking about margins and Yeah. <laugh> having the ability to negotiate that. Have you negotiated on margins? I

Have recently, yes. And I was very proud of myself. So taking the tools that I've learnt, um, yet again at three printer, I'm gonna throw that out there, <laugh>. So sitting and listening to all the, the talk, the speakers that day really helped me in a lot of ways. Um, like I said, to take the emotion out of the business and sort of know what the market, you know, the trends are, I guess you should say. You could say, um, but what's acceptable. So, you know, if someone wants 35%, for example, and you can only afford 32%, then that's just the way it is. You'd say, this is what I can give you. Or unfortunately, you know, it's, it's not gonna work. Um, and they either meet you where you are at or you know, it's just not gonna happen. And that's, that's okay as well, I think.

Mm. Did it come full? Did it come your way when you negotiated recently?

Yes, it did. Which is great. <laugh>, so, we'll, we'll see how it goes, but they're not the numbers, but <laugh>,

I, you know, there's two things with that for me. And one is fake it till you make it <laugh>. Sometimes you just gotta lean in and, and, you know, um, someone said to me recently, we were talking about real estate, so it wasn't really about food businesses, but they said to me, um, bite off more than you can chew and then chew like crazy mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I think that's business <laugh>. Yeah. And the other part of it is know your numbers. Because if you know you can only afford a 32% margin, then that in of itself, I think is quite empowering. Just knowing it, you know, it might not be really where you wanna be, but it is what it is.

Yeah. That's it. And you know, like I said, I, I'm one who will put off the spreadsheet until the end of time if I have to <laugh>, but I did, I sat down and I just thought, I just, I really, if I'm going to yet again, go from what's kind of been an expensive hobby, I've called it for the past six years to actually running a proper business. I had to sit down and I had to do the work, and I had to get to know my numbers and not even how I used to calculate things and not include things like shipping cartons and tape. Like, I'd drill down to the absolute last input that I could think of to make sure that it was gonna be viable. Because if you, if you don't do that, especially when you're taking on someone big, like, you know, a national distributor, then it's gonna bite you and it's really hard to then go back and, and change things. You know, another co you know, a couple of months after you've sort of locked it all in and gone, oh, actually I'm not making any money now, what do I do? Mm.

Yeah. Pricing backwards, is that the, the one of the things that I advocate for, for that reason. Because once you are in an, in an arrangement, it's a little bit like taking a job at a certain salary and then trying to negotiate your salary, salary up once you're already in there. Hmm. So if you can go in hard initially, um, it's just so much easier. Jansa, with those inputs that you were speaking about a moment ago, did you incorporate a wage for yourself?

Yes, I have done that. Um, I think it's important that you definitely put some money aside for yourself when you're doing those calculations.

Absolutely. And if you ever wanted to sell the business too, the person who would be taking an over may not be producing it like you are, and so they would need to pay somebody else to produce it. And then you've accounted for that already. So that's such a great practice. Fantastic. So just back to resilience and self-love that we've been talking about throughout the episode, I'm wondering, do you have a ritual or a routine to manage your resilience?

Not really a ritual. Um, I read a lot of self-help books, which I find enjoyable. That's sort of what I do. Maybe I do have a ritual. I do like to go to bed extremely early. Um, my wonderful six year old sucks a life out of me at nighttime, so I'm usually, uh, in bed by 8 30, 9 o'clock reading. Um, and I find that I'm, I'm quite a routine person as well. So the less decisions that you make in a day, the more room you have in your brain, <laugh> for other things that might pop up. Um, so I'm better at sort of being able to take things in my stride when my brain's not full of other things I need to deal with each day.

Mm-hmm. Steve Jobs of Apple used to wear the same black ski every day, right. For that same reason.

Yes. See, I eat the same breakfast every day, <laugh>, so I don't have to make that decision in the morning. <laugh> <laugh>.

And when I see you, you're in hot pink.

Yeah. That's my brand color. So I think that's a, a fake it till you make it kind of thing for me. Um, I did wear a bright pink suit down in Sydney and realized that nobody actually wears color in Sydney <laugh>. So I felt like I was a tiny bit out of place walking down the street with my ba and co granola cardboard boxes. Um, but you know, I did have a few comments after that saying I looked fab, which was wonderful. But yeah, that's, I think that's a mask that I like to put on, um, just to try and make myself feel a bit more comfortable. I don't know why just standing out makes me feel more comfortable. But yeah, pink is definitely my color.

You look beautiful and pink and at Foodpreneurs Festival, you looked outstanding. And I love the fact that you did wanna lean into standing out because I think a lot of opportunities have opened up just by doing that. Have they not including the invitation to this podcast?

I think so. I think if you fade away into the shadows, then you'll, you'll get lost. So, you know, it was nice to have other, you know, food printers come to me and introduce themselves to me because I'm not great at, at, you know, initiating conversation. But I, I so love talking to people, um, especially people are on the same journey as us. Um, so yeah.

Mm-hmm. Now, when I speak to you, and we've spoken a little bit lately because we saw each other at Yes. At ERs festival and then at, um, naturally Good Trade Show recently too. Um, and when I hear this, uh, leap of faith that you're making, and I've seen your beautiful brand online and the product launches that you've made in the last year, my heart actually melts for you and the future for BaskandCo. Uh, you're very talented and, um, I, I'm actually deeply touched by the conversation that we're having, and I'm wondering whether or not you could articulate what the future holds for you in terms of what you, what you, what you would like.

Thank you. That's really, really lovely. Um, I just wanna keep sort of heading in the trajectory that we're going. I think, um, I'm starting to feel really confident of the brand, um, feeling a lot more confident in myself. Um, and it'll be, I'm very interested to see how this next stage of business is gonna go for me bringing on the distributor. Um, and sort of, you know, diving into new, new avenues and widening the bucket a little bit more. I always have a, you know, I've always done the sort of narrow deep bucket, so now we're gonna start to, to broaden it out and try new, new, um, new areas, which will be interesting.

Hmm. Is it fair to say that you are gonna start to play an even bigger game?

Yes, I think so, but there's a limit I think, to where I'm comfortable yet, you know, we'll push it to where I'm comfortable next. Um, and then I'm sure that once I get too comfortable there, I'll probably keep trying to push it to the next, the next, um, stage.

Hmm. That's understandable. That's totally understandable. So for people who wanna get in touch with you and support you, where shall we send them?

Uh, so they can head to our website, which is baskandco.com au. Um, or social media. I'm active on Instagram and Facebook, and that's just at BaskandCo or one word.

Amazing. Janessa, thank you for your time today. It's been lovely talking with you.

Thank you, Chelsea.

Okay, that's it for today. Thanks for listening. I hope you found today's insights valuable and that you'll implement those in your food and drink business. I'd like to ask you now to help me help more food entrepreneurs put more money in their pocket by giving me an honest rating. Five stars would be lovely, but that's up to you. Write a review and subscribe to this podcast on your platform of choice. The more you tell me what you like and the momentum builds for the Foodpreneur with Chelsea Ford Podcast, the easier it will be for me to help you land more accounts, get more product in more consumers' hands, and put more money in your pocket. And together we'll keep ensuring consumers have a choice of brands so they don't just stock big food products in their pantries, in their kids' lunch boxes and at their celebrations. So thank you for taking a moment to do that.