Navigating Business Challenges: A Candid Conversation with Robert Grieve | 102

"It's not necessarily what the contract says; it’s how the other person understands it sometimes." - Rob Grieve

The episode was recorded pre-pandemic at the Nylund's Collision shop in Englewood, CO. 

Introduction:
Welcome to another insightful episode of "Business Unveiled: Unfiltered"! In this episode, we dive deep into the world of business challenges and strategies to overcome them. Our guest, Robert Grieve, a seasoned entrepreneur and business guru, shares his candid insights into effective problem-solving in the business landscape.

Episode Highlights:

• Understanding Business Challenges 
  • Robert Grieve emphasizes that challenges are inevitable in any business journey, ranging from financial hurdles to operational setbacks.
  • Highlighting the difference between external challenges like economic shifts and internal challenges like team dynamics.
  • Importance of viewing challenges as opportunities for growth and innovation.
• Insights from Experience 
  • Robert Grieve draws upon his rich entrepreneurial experience to provide real-world examples of how he tackled various business challenges.
  • Discussion on the significance of adaptability and how being open to change can lead to overcoming seemingly insurmountable obstacles.
• Strategies for Overcoming Challenges 
  • Robert Grieve shares effective strategies for approaching and resolving challenges, including the DARE framework - Define, Assess, Respond, Evaluate.
  • In-depth exploration of the role of resilience in bouncing back from failures and setbacks.
• Leadership's Role in Navigating Challenges 
  • Robert Grieve talks about the critical role of leadership in addressing challenges, making tough decisions, and providing a sense of direction to the team.
  • Discussion on transforming challenges into valuable learning experiences for the entire organization.
• Innovative Approaches to Problem-Solving 
  • Robert Grieve stresses the importance of thinking outside the box and embracing innovation to overcome challenges.
  • How fostering a culture of creativity can lead to breakthrough solutions.
• The Human Element 
  • Robert Grieve underscores the significance of empathy in understanding and resolving challenges.
  • The role of effective communication and teamwork in navigating through difficult times.

Conclusion:
In this episode, we've delved deep into the world of business challenges with Robert Grieve. 

Don't Skip the Legal podcast brings you insightful conversations with successful entrepreneurs, providing real-world lessons on business growth, legal considerations, and much more. Subscribe now for more enriching episodes and practical insights for navigating the complexities of the business world.

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Disclaimer:

Please note that the legal information shared in this podcast is for general informational and entertainment purposes only. It is not a substitute for consulting with a licensed attorney for specific legal matters. Past performance does not indicate future results; every legal case is unique. Consult your own attorney for personalized legal advice.

Transcript

00;00;01;13 - 00;00;33;07
I’m Andy Contiguglia, your corporate casual Denver based business attorney bringing you the Don't Get to legal podcast where you can listen in on the real stories, the real stakes, and the real legal lessons from real business owners just like you. These behind the door conversations about business are instrumental to your success. This is where the deals are made, negotiations are discussed, and company problems are identified, leading you to overcoming the challenges we all face in our business.

00;00;33;07 - 00;00;45;18
Andrew J. Contiguglia
This podcast is your invitation to where the real business happens and also where the best ideas take place. So let's get behind the doors in business and break down these legal lesson in overall. Remember, don't skip the legal.

00;00;46;01 - 00;00;55;19
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Welcome, everybody. Welcome to Netherlands Collision in Denver, Colorado. I am with my very good friend Robert Grieve, the owner and the proprietor of Nylund’s Collision.

00;00;55;24 - 00;00;56;02
Robert Grieve
Great.

00;00;56;02 - 00;01;13;00
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Denver. This is sort of our inauguration of journey here into the world of podcasting and interviews and the legal lessons associated with it. So sometimes giving you a little bit of an introduction, but why don't you tell everybody about yourself what you do here in Denver and a little bit about your business.

00;01;13;02 - 00;01;24;16
Robert Grieve
I own Nylund’s Collision Center with my lovely wife Carol, who not with us. As you can see, we repair collision damaged vehicles, deal with all the insurance company nightmares, and get lots of help from my friend Andy.

00;01;25;24 - 00;01;45;08
Andrew J. Contiguglia
That's good. I hope that you absolutely always need my help, but I guess that sort of brings in a really good segway into sort of our talking about our discussion here, but the utilization of an attorney doesn't always have to be in times of bad, correct? Our relationship has always sort of been in good time. There have been definitely a few bad times without getting in any details about things.

00;01;45;08 - 00;02;06;23
Andrew J. Contiguglia
I sort of talk about some of the good things, like where do you see in terms of the legal issues that you've had to deal with? Generally speaking, as a business owner, I'd really sort of like to hear your story about why you decided to get involved in Autobody and how you decided to choose this one and sort of your journey into where you are now, this absolutely beautiful facility that you've been in for about how long now?

00;02;06;29 - 00;02;08;06
Robert Grieve
January we moved in.

00;02;08;06 - 00;02;12;17
Andrew J. Contiguglia
So almost coming up on a year. And I know you started off in a much smaller.

00;02;13;00 - 00;02;13;21
Robert Grieve
Hellhole up the.

00;02;13;21 - 00;02;24;21
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Street. Right. So there's been a lot a long journey from the beginning of your business to where you are today. As now. How many years running now? The top body shop in the Denver area?

00;02;24;21 - 00;02;28;28
Robert Grieve
Oh, we've won the Denver list, I believe, eight years in a row now. That's great. It's exciting.

00;02;29;03 - 00;02;34;28
Andrew J. Contiguglia
So tell me how you sort of decided on this business and growing it and start from the very beginning to where we are today.

00;02;35;03 - 00;02;59;19
Robert Grieve
I started in the business back in Jersey, and wore a lot of different hats throughout my life from working in a body shop, then working in service departments, then running service parts and body shops, then running service parts and body shops for public companies, then to running dealerships back east after that, went to Chrysler, worked at the big house in Michigan for a while, and then Michigan kind of went to hell in a handbag.

00;02;59;19 - 00;03;14;10
Robert Grieve
We had the decision to make. Were we going to stay there or find something else to do where we're going to go back to Jersey or spread our wings and try something completely different? So we decided to come to Colorado buy a body shop. That was the easiest thing I had ever done was run a body shop.

00;03;14;10 - 00;03;18;09
Andrew J. Contiguglia
So how long ago was that when you decided to actually make the purchase into the Body Shop?

00;03;18;11 - 00;03;20;06
Robert Grieve
March will be 12 years now.

00;03;20;07 - 00;03;24;25
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Wow. So coming up on 12 years, I mean, you didn't start this business from scratch, did you know?

00;03;24;25 - 00;03;26;20
Robert Grieve
I purchased a specific business.

00;03;26;27 - 00;03;35;25
Andrew J. Contiguglia
So tell us about why you sort of decided on going that route, buying and purchasing a business that had already been in existence versus starting your own from scratch.

00;03;36;02 - 00;04;00;14
Robert Grieve
There's a few things I looked at. One of them was how much work do they have now? What did their financials look like? So were they consistent and what kind of cars were they working on? For the vast majority of my time, it's been luxury vehicles that I've been taking care of those types of guests. And it's really more about the guest experience for me than it is about fixing the car we can fix the car is just one of those things being able to take care of people that's different.

00;04;00;14 - 00;04;01;03
Robert Grieve
Dynamic.

00;04;01;04 - 00;04;08;22
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Your objective is you want to help people overall and the avenue that you have chosen to do that is through autobody repair.

00;04;08;22 - 00;04;16;15
Robert Grieve
And when you have an accident, you're in crisis mode. There's no handbook as to what to do next, and I enjoy helping people through that whole process.

00;04;16;16 - 00;04;19;18
Andrew J. Contiguglia
So how did you actually find the business to buy in the first place?

00;04;19;18 - 00;04;35;09
Robert Grieve
I had a realtor. Funny story. I call him up because he sold my sister law house here in Colorado and I said, Yeah, I'm looking to buy a business and naturally will be looking to buy a house as well. So this realtor says, I don't do commercial. I said, That's fine, you do now and we'll do this together.

00;04;35;09 - 00;04;49;02
Robert Grieve
All I need you to be is my arms and legs in Colorado. Go find the businesses are for sale. I'll fly out. I know contract law and it'll get me this far. And then we'll get all the head honchos involved. And my friend Jim Reyes family and islands.

00;04;49;08 - 00;05;12;02
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Great. Yep. So let's talk about that. The process of buying a business. I mean, there's this whole area called due diligence. Why don't you sort of explain your process in determining whether nylons was the right business for you to be purchasing? What factors did you look at and what criteria was on your mind? I mean, you mentioned early on that your first criteria is you want to make sure that they have a good an existing book of business, that their books are good, so to speak.

00;05;12;02 - 00;05;13;20
Andrew J. Contiguglia
But would you elaborate on that a little bit more?

00;05;13;24 - 00;05;35;14
Robert Grieve
Well, I'm fairly decent at accounting, so I scrubbed their books very hard looking for holes. I don't look for the good, I look for what's wrong with it? Potential potholes. And I couldn't really find much. It was a small business, very few employees. It was something I knew I could grow and I could grow relatively quickly with my background, right?

00;05;35;14 - 00;05;47;03
Robert Grieve
So that's kind of why I picked nylons and it had the vehicles. But here's the thing. They said they had a contract, which it's never really a contract. It's a handshake. And I know how you feel about handshake agreements.

00;05;47;15 - 00;05;48;09
Andrew J. Contiguglia
I have an opinion.

00;05;48;13 - 00;05;48;21
Robert Grieve
Yeah.

00;05;49;13 - 00;06;01;14
Robert Grieve
With a local Lexus dealer. Okay. And after all the paper signed and checks are passed, passed back and forth, all the rest of that stuff, I find out that we kind of lost that which I was counting on.

00;06;01;14 - 00;06;02;17
Andrew J. Contiguglia
He lost the relationship.

00;06;02;17 - 00;06;18;06
Robert Grieve
Yes. Okay. And they weren't using him anymore. And the only way to find that out really was to be there and see what's going on. Now, I did this whole purchase from Michigan. I only came out here to close the deal. I saw the place twice, had two cars in it I was looking for, had the right equipment.

00;06;18;06 - 00;06;37;24
Robert Grieve
You spent good money and had the best equipment that you can have. It's another thing to look at, especially in today. Today, it's far more important than it was back then, but you had the best of the best. So it just made me feel as though we got a good business going on here. And I'm not going to have to spend a bunch of capital trying to get the correct equipment and stuff, but they lost this relationship.

00;06;37;24 - 00;06;42;22
Robert Grieve
How do you ever know that you're not going to get somebody referring a business to sign a contract? I'm going to refer you business. Well, let.

00;06;42;22 - 00;06;55;23
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Me ask you this question. When you were buying the business, were you buying it with the expectation that the company had this relationship with this Lexus group, which was a huge source of their revenue, and that was sort of what you were buying in addition to that.

00;06;55;28 - 00;07;18;19
Robert Grieve
Yeah. And I knew that I could grow that because I come from the dealership world, I speak their language. Consequently, that's how I got back in. Okay. I'm not been a wonderful relationship since then. When you're buying a business, you think this, but that isn't necessarily what it's going to be. And sometimes if you have the ability to I don't want to say stalked a place, but be there frequently to see if everything is what it's purported to be.

00;07;18;19 - 00;07;20;11
Robert Grieve
Great. I didn't have that opportunity.

00;07;20;11 - 00;07;26;10
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Let me ask you this. So how did you learn that the relationship with this Lexus dealership had tattered and washed away?

00;07;26;13 - 00;07;41;15
Robert Grieve
Because I didn't see any Lexus coming through the door. If you have a relationship, I'm thinking in the first month or so, you see something. We did have a Lexus there and I ordered two parts for it. And I'm talking to the parts guy and I said, I don't see a bunch of stuff going through and the parts guy is actually the guy that told me that.

00;07;41;23 - 00;07;47;06
Robert Grieve
Yeah. When I said in business over there anymore I'm like arresting outstanding. Right.

00;07;47;11 - 00;07;50;19
Andrew J. Contiguglia
So now when you learned this, had you already purchased the company?

00;07;50;19 - 00;07;51;20
Robert Grieve
I owned it at that point.

00;07;51;29 - 00;07;53;29
Andrew J. Contiguglia
So this was something you found out after the fact.

00;07;54;00 - 00;07;54;15
Robert Grieve
After the.

00;07;54;15 - 00;08;08;07
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Fact. All right. So on this sort of legal lesson number two is how did you rebuild your relationship with the dealership in order to help bring in this sort of core and foundational recurring business for your company?

00;08;08;13 - 00;08;22;05
Robert Grieve
I went to the owner that I purchased it from. He had to stay on with me for a month or something like that. And during that month I had learned that they're not doing that anymore. So I said, You kind of misled me a little bit, you got to be frank, right? So this is what I want you to do.

00;08;22;05 - 00;08;38;04
Robert Grieve
I want you to call the guy over there, tell him that you have a new ownership here. Tell him that I want to take him and his wife. You and your wife and I are going to go to the Fort for dinner and just get to know each other. I don't know if anything is going to come out of it or not, but I want you to know who I am, what I bring to the table.

00;08;38;04 - 00;08;42;08
Robert Grieve
And we had that dinner. It's been great ever since then. We grew that relationship.

00;08;42;11 - 00;08;58;05
Andrew J. Contiguglia
And just sort of just set the record on that. You don't have to give the name of the dealership, but the dealership is one of the biggest Lexus dealerships in the state of Colorado, as I'm aware of them. And I know that even to this day, you still happen to have a phenomenal relationship with that company.

00;08;58;07 - 00;09;07;14
Robert Grieve
This is new news that you don't know about. Okay. I've just sat down with the ownership and senior management yesterday. They are going to open the floodgates to send everything here.

00;09;07;15 - 00;09;08;06
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Oh, wow.

00;09;08;06 - 00;09;26;13
Robert Grieve
But there's been times through this relationship that the corporation, because they owned several dealerships, put a body shop and one of their other dealerships and had to stop sending me business to keep it in their in their own company. And that put a hurting on us for a while. But I never stopped buying parts from them because we already had a Lexus base of people that were using us.

00;09;26;13 - 00;09;36;02
Robert Grieve
So we still had Lexus coming in and I continued to purchase my parts from them and show my loyalty. And you know what? Nobody can do what I do when it comes to this business. So we earned it back.

00;09;36;09 - 00;09;43;24
Andrew J. Contiguglia
That's great. And I think that a real valuable lesson that people can learn is just because a relationship deteriorates. There's no reason why you can't get it back.

00;09;43;28 - 00;09;48;26
Robert Grieve
Yeah. And if you want to be hateful and spiteful and well, then you're definitely going to flush the toilet on it.

00;09;48;29 - 00;10;02;20
Andrew J. Contiguglia
You don't want to do that. Don't flush the toilet on business. It's your lifeline. Now, a little piece that I'm aware of, if maybe you could talk about it a little bit more when you bought the company, you stayed in the building that the company had previously occupied.

00;10;02;20 - 00;10;03;17
Robert Grieve
Yes, I leased at.

00;10;03;23 - 00;10;05;01
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Least the building.

00;10;05;10 - 00;10;06;23
Robert Grieve
Took over the existing lease.

00;10;06;23 - 00;10;09;29
Andrew J. Contiguglia
But the building was owned by the guy who sold you the business.

00;10;09;29 - 00;10;22;00
Robert Grieve
No, he. No, his brother owned the building. Steve owned the business. So I bought the business from Steve. Okay. Paid his brother the rent and just signed a lease basically.

00;10;22;00 - 00;10;22;10
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Right.

00;10;22;18 - 00;10;25;25
Robert Grieve
And took over the lease that was already in place.

00;10;26;01 - 00;10;29;10
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Okay. Now, I know we had some difficulties with that.

00;10;29;10 - 00;10;30;20
Robert Grieve
Lease, to say the least.

00;10;31;21 - 00;10;41;29
Andrew J. Contiguglia
To say the least. And I'll have to go back and double check and make sure we're not breaching any confidences or anything before this goes public. But you did have some issues with the lease later on, and that's where you and I got introduced to one another.

00;10;41;29 - 00;10;42;24
Robert Grieve
It is exactly.

00;10;42;24 - 00;10;43;11
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Sort of about.

00;10;43;20 - 00;10;48;16
Robert Grieve
Three, probably what I had already been doing business with your dad for many years before that. Let's talk to.

00;10;48;16 - 00;10;54;21
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Bob. Let's not bring in my dad's driving habits and how he helped you purchase this. Wonderful.

00;10;54;26 - 00;10;57;18
Robert Grieve
Let me show you the Dr. Bob Wing over in the corner.

00;10;57;21 - 00;11;03;21
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Exactly. I'm glad my father was able to help put your kids through college.

00;11;04;15 - 00;11;05;06
Robert Grieve
We're not done yet.

00;11;06;08 - 00;11;23;24
Andrew J. Contiguglia
But anyway, getting back to the point issue with the lease that you had signed and some difficulty is an understanding of what the language in the lease actually meant. You did not or maybe you did. I don't know the answer to this. But did you use an attorney to help guide you through the purchase of nylons at the inception of your business?

00;11;23;24 - 00;11;31;11
Andrew J. Contiguglia
I did. Okay. It doesn't matter, good or bad. How is the attorney able to help you through that process and make good decisions in the buying process of your business?

00;11;31;16 - 00;11;32;18
Robert Grieve
I don't really think he did.

00;11;32;29 - 00;11;34;11
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Okay. And why do you think that?

00;11;34;11 - 00;11;41;01
Robert Grieve
I did all the talking. I did all the reading. I asked the questions. You said, yeah, don't worry about that. I don't see anything here needs to be changed.

00;11;41;05 - 00;11;48;14
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Or if you could go back and redo it, what type of involvement with a lawyer would you have hoped? The lawyer had engaged a little bit more about?

00;11;48;14 - 00;12;06;00
Robert Grieve
I would hope that he would have taken the documents that I gave him and explain them to me. Are you sure you understand that this is what you're signing? Are you sure you understand that this is the way it's going to go and this is what your responsibilities are? And instead I read the documents, underline stuff, outline my own questions and answered them.

00;12;06;00 - 00;12;12;01
Robert Grieve
I didn't find it to be that much of a help, to tell you the truth, not like we would have done today. It's completely different today than it was then.

00;12;12;08 - 00;12;22;03
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Concerning that least extent. Well, you had a lease extension or there was a provision of the lease and that led to a dispute between you and the landlord. You could elaborate on that a little bit.

00;12;22;06 - 00;12;41;05
Robert Grieve
Okay. So how that all came about? The building that I was leasing from him, I was only leasing two thirds of it. The person that was in the other third left, I had written in the thing that I get the right of first refusal if that comes available. And so it came available, but it needed to be renovated and modified to fit our needs.

00;12;41;07 - 00;12;54;10
Robert Grieve
Naturally, he wanted to have an extension on the lease, so he was putting some money into it. I put some money into it. Seemed very reasonable to me. Just go ahead. We've agreed on a numbers and everything. You go ahead and write up a document and we'll just sign it together.

00;12;54;10 - 00;12;57;03
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Who wrote up the documents?

00;12;57;03 - 00;13;11;14
Robert Grieve
Pick me. Stop. Don't ever do that. It was a straightforward document that had what I wanted in it, but what it said and what it meant and what somebody else would perceive it means, I learned a just a horrible lesson.

00;13;11;15 - 00;13;20;02
Andrew J. Contiguglia
So what you put in the document, you thought in that one thing. Yeah, what you put in the document. Landlord thought meant something completely different. Yes. Okay. And that's what.

00;13;20;02 - 00;13;21;24
Robert Grieve
Nobody asked the question when we signed it.

00;13;21;24 - 00;13;28;07
Andrew J. Contiguglia
And I think I taught you a little lesson concerning what happens when you're the drafter of the agreement. What did you learn about that?

00;13;28;08 - 00;13;34;10
Robert Grieve
Don't do it because I'm the author. The thing I don't remember the rest of what you said, but it doesn't work in my favor.

00;13;34;13 - 00;13;36;21
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Right? The lesson that you learned was.

00;13;36;21 - 00;13;47;12
Robert Grieve
If you're the author of the contract or agreement or whatever you want to call it, it doesn't help you if there's a problem with it. Scene from the other person's point of view.

00;13;47;12 - 00;14;15;09
Andrew J. Contiguglia
If the contract is vague on terms and you're the drafter of the contract and lawyers aren't involved, it's expected that the contract is going to be construed against the drafter. In other words, any court that reviews the contract is going to construe it in favor of the person who didn't write the rationale behind that is if you put in something vague terms thinking one thing that could be advantageous to you but not the other person, that's not fair to the other person because they can't read your mind.

00;14;15;09 - 00;14;22;06
Andrew J. Contiguglia
They'll say, I need to document. Yes, but when you have vague terms and things like that and there was some vagueness in that document, if I remember correctly.

00;14;22;12 - 00;14;26;00
Robert Grieve
I believe that the mean one thing he believed it to mean another thing.

00;14;26;00 - 00;14;44;16
Andrew J. Contiguglia
But we were able to sit down and we were able to sort of renegotiate those provisions and make it more tight, really sort of tighten up, button up. He had an attorney at this point. You had me representing you at that point. It was really sort of this opportunity to correct the mistake that had been made by this point.

00;14;44;16 - 00;14;48;00
Andrew J. Contiguglia
It was four or five years earlier. Yeah, I think when I came on board and.

00;14;48;00 - 00;15;03;14
Robert Grieve
It was somewhat a catastrophe because me feeling as though I could get out of the contract at this time, I went and put a deposit on another building for 30, $40,000. Next thing you know, I can't get out of the lease and he's going to sue me and take my home and everything.

00;15;03;14 - 00;15;20;20
Andrew J. Contiguglia
But we did have a discussion about fighting the lease, about making an argument to get out of it. But we decided ultimately or you decided ultimately that that wasn't something you wanted to do. Yeah. And what went into your decision not to pursue this from a legal standpoint, but to negotiate a resolution?

00;15;20;21 - 00;15;38;10
Robert Grieve
We chose to go to a mediation between all the mediation going back and forth and the guy going this way and coming back over here and talking over there and come back. I'm like, I was getting exhausted with the thing and it didn't look like it was ever going to go in my favor. So I cut the best deal I could cut at the time and I was pissed off about it.

00;15;38;10 - 00;15;48;04
Robert Grieve
And what about it was my mistake by law ended up staying another four years I think. Yeah it's just this contract stuff is not necessarily what the thing says, it's how somebody interprets it.

00;15;48;04 - 00;16;07;13
Andrew J. Contiguglia
And that brings up a really good point, which is I tell people this all the time, contracts is based on mutual understanding. The legal definition of it is a meeting of the minds what your intent is and what my intent is, and that we have accurately and adequately put it to paper to define what the nature of our relationship.

00;16;07;16 - 00;16;30;29
Andrew J. Contiguglia
If I don't know what your intent is and you don't know what my intent is, and we just thrown words on a page and we sort of look at it and go, Oh yeah, it looks the same without having that conversation with one another. That becomes a problem. And that's where you run into those types of problems. And I think the lesson is, as much as you may not want to sit down and talk to your opposition in that it's so very important that you do.

00;16;31;00 - 00;16;46;15
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Now, you built a good relationship and there were other issues related to the building that we sort of built into the agreement as well. But you were able to get something out of it and he was able to get something out of it. Yeah. And we sort of put this together where it satisfies both of your needs and gave you a compromise.

00;16;46;15 - 00;16;48;08
Robert Grieve
Yeah, well, everybody won, and everybody loved.

00;16;48;08 - 00;17;13;00
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Everybody wanted everybody else. And that's sort of the redefinition of compromise. And in retrospect, yeah, I mean, it was good for you because you get put in this position. You had an opportunity to get out at a certain time, but business wasn't ready. You weren't ready. The right place wasn't available. Coincidentally, here you are in this beautiful new building, which in all irony became available.

00;17;13;01 - 00;17;14;07
Robert Grieve
Literally the second we.

00;17;14;07 - 00;17;26;23
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Knew the moment you needed it when the lease was running up and you decided I was not going to renew after this period, the period that we had negotiated five years earlier, that it's now available and boom, here it drops in your lap. It worked out really well.

00;17;26;23 - 00;17;39;05
Robert Grieve
Yeah. And then you and I did a wonderful job on buying this, building all the paper and stuff that goes along with buying commercial property is just crazy. And I appreciate your help going through those waters.

00;17;39;05 - 00;17;45;12
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Well, let me ask you this. How was purchasing this building different than purchasing the business first time around?

00;17;45;15 - 00;18;02;18
Robert Grieve
I didn't really have any dealings with the state or local municipalities or any of those types of people. When you buy a building, you got to make sure it's zoned correctly, even if it's zoned correctly. You need to go and introduce yourself to the building department to say, Hey, I'm looking to purchase this thing. Is everybody going to be okay with this?

00;18;02;18 - 00;18;05;22
Robert Grieve
This is what I'm going to put there and start to build a relationship with the town.

00;18;05;22 - 00;18;13;13
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Is that what you did? I did, yeah. All right. So when you first decided that this was the building for you to move your business into, what were some of the first steps that you took?

00;18;13;18 - 00;18;29;01
Robert Grieve
We came over with you and we walked the whole thing to make sure it was going to be suitable, put our vision glasses on and and saw what it could be. And we looked for what the potential potholes are like 28 underground tanks and oil all over the place.

00;18;29;01 - 00;18;31;14
Andrew J. Contiguglia
So yes, in the cleanup was.

00;18;31;29 - 00;18;32;18
Robert Grieve
Extensive.

00;18;32;18 - 00;18;38;10
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Breezy. The building had previously been owned by a fuel or petroleum distribution company.

00;18;38;10 - 00;18;38;25
Robert Grieve
That's right.

00;18;38;25 - 00;18;43;29
Andrew J. Contiguglia
So the laws related to underground storage tanks were significant.

00;18;44;09 - 00;18;45;14
Robert Grieve
And the removal of them.

00;18;45;14 - 00;18;53;08
Andrew J. Contiguglia
To put it mildly, there was going to be a lot of fixing up that had to be done with this building. You were not going to take on that endeavor, were you not?

00;18;53;08 - 00;18;57;08
Robert Grieve
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That became part of the contract.

00;18;57;08 - 00;18;58;23
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Yeah. So let's talk about that a little bit.

00;18;58;23 - 00;19;02;16
Robert Grieve
And they had a clear understanding.

00;19;02;16 - 00;19;10;18
Andrew J. Contiguglia
I made it very clear you want to buy the building. But one of the conditions was they had to remove the underground tanks. And you said there were 28 of.

00;19;10;18 - 00;19;11;18
Robert Grieve
Them, 28 the.

00;19;11;18 - 00;19;21;15
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Owner of the building. The seller had to take on the you know, the cost of removing those. And that was not something that you were willing to take on.

00;19;21;16 - 00;19;35;12
Robert Grieve
No, because I didn't know anything about it. I wouldn't have any idea who to hire to do it and what the potential problems could be. I need somebody else to have that. And then if something fell apart, I could get out of the contract. I'm not doing it myself.

00;19;35;13 - 00;19;51;14
Andrew J. Contiguglia
They're doing it. That was not an expense that you were willing to undertake. I mean, we negotiated the price of the building a little bit, but one of the conditions was if you're going to buy it, they have to remove those tanks. Yes. And they had to bear the cost of making some of the improvements to the property that were important to you.

00;19;51;15 - 00;20;09;17
Robert Grieve
Most of it was around the tanks because it was not only the costs which just cost, which scared me to death, but it's about the liability. It's about how do you get certified that it's all done right, not have a problem down the road. I don't want to buy a worthless piece of property either that's been contaminated and so on and so forth.

00;20;09;23 - 00;20;19;13
Robert Grieve
I didn't know enough about it, so I put it on their shoulders and we weren't going to purchase the building without having a sign off from the EPA and from the state that we are clean.

00;20;19;13 - 00;20;27;10
Andrew J. Contiguglia
And that was one of the requirements to close it. Yes. That not only did they have to remove the tanks, but we had to get an EPA certification that it was.

00;20;27;10 - 00;20;28;10
Robert Grieve
Clean, signed off and.

00;20;28;10 - 00;20;30;00
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Clean, that the tanks didn't leak.

00;20;30;00 - 00;20;33;15
Robert Grieve
And no further action later. It's called no further action required letter.

00;20;33;15 - 00;20;40;12
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Oh, good stuff. And I mean, you got really lucky. These tanks were in good shape. There had been no ground contamination. Yep. Remove debris. Or you can.

00;20;40;12 - 00;20;40;29
Robert Grieve
Say they got.

00;20;40;29 - 00;20;41;08
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Lucky.

00;20;41;08 - 00;20;45;12
Robert Grieve
They got because they would have had the expense and no buyer.

00;20;45;23 - 00;20;51;00
Andrew J. Contiguglia
That's right. One of the other things that we had to deal with was access to the property. So we had easement issues.

00;20;51;00 - 00;21;04;22
Robert Grieve
That's another thing. Now that you own a commercial piece of property, do you have the right access for the fire department and what can they come in and do? What can the water department come in and do? There's just so many things. When you're buying a commercial piece of property that you have to know that there's no book on how to know.

00;21;04;25 - 00;21;20;10
Andrew J. Contiguglia
So of learned by experience. But it becomes a hefty price to pay if you screw it up. So what did you do to learn about the requirements that you were going to have now as a commercial building owner, a very large building in a commercial industrial space in one of the local cities.

00;21;20;10 - 00;21;43;08
Robert Grieve
I talked to a lot of people, you being one of them, right. Even a couple of your friends. You had me talk to them as well. I spent a lot of time at the building department asking them questions and being involved in the process of what renovations we had to do and what was going to be code. And I had contractors on site from putting up booster re, outfitting the electrical of the place and plumbing needs.

00;21;43;08 - 00;21;51;20
Robert Grieve
And so I picked all their brains as they were here. You know what kind of potholes? Because I was renovating this place before I owned it. That was a handshake deal.

00;21;51;27 - 00;22;01;07
Andrew J. Contiguglia
That the owners were very kind. But is it okay to do a handshake deal under some circumstances? Absolutely. But you don't do something huge on a handshake.

00;22;01;07 - 00;22;21;05
Robert Grieve
Well, our handshake deal was I can come in and renovate the place even though I don't own it. They didn't charge me any rent or anything. I promised them I was not going to conduct business in it until such times as I actually purchased it. But I needed to get the place cleaned up and I needed to get the electrical done because I only had a month left before I had to get out of the other facility.

00;22;21;05 - 00;22;33;03
Robert Grieve
The handshake deal was, yes, you can go ahead and do all that. I mean, it needed new heaters, it needed new everything. And I had an inspection done from an outside party that also led me to to know that I needed new heaters and so on and so forth.

00;22;33;03 - 00;22;34;03
Andrew J. Contiguglia
And an American flag.

00;22;34;06 - 00;22;54;11
Robert Grieve
Absolutely. That was the first thing to go up. God bless America. So the big thing came with that handshake deal is that if the deal fell apart for any reason, then we were not going to close on it. They get my improvements that I've made to it. You know what? I had to be out in 30 days. Sometimes you just got to believe in yourself, shake hands on it, move forward and just make it happen.

00;22;54;18 - 00;23;04;28
Andrew J. Contiguglia
But that comes after 12 years of instinct. You built a lot of instinct and you can read people real well and you come from the industry and sometimes you have to take risks.

00;23;04;28 - 00;23;06;24
Robert Grieve
But I've never bought a commercial piece of property.

00;23;06;24 - 00;23;13;20
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Before and there was certainly some issues with what happens if things don't happen. I mean, we had to hedge your bets a little bit on some things a.

00;23;13;20 - 00;23;17;19
Robert Grieve
Little bit, but there were risks we were willing to take and. Right. They were extraordinary.

00;23;17;23 - 00;23;33;13
Andrew J. Contiguglia
But there did come some issues with the landlord on your old building as you were sort of phasing out of there. He wanted to know, hey, are you going to stay? That created its own set of issues. What came up concerning that?

00;23;33;19 - 00;23;50;09
Robert Grieve
He obviously wanted me to stay and was going to do everything that I would want to do. I outgrew the place years before. There was no way that I was going to stay and he made it perfect for me. And I owe him a debt of gratitude because he pushed me over the edge. He said, Your leases up, I'm raising your rent.

00;23;50;09 - 00;24;07;09
Robert Grieve
An additional three grand from the nine grand that I was paying him. I'm like, Yeah, that doesn't work for me. I'm going to be moving on. And he said, Well, you have to be out by the end of the month. Well, we hadn't found this place yet, so I had to extend the month deal which he didn't want to do, finally talked him into doing that.

00;24;07;09 - 00;24;09;00
Robert Grieve
And it cost me no the grand a month.

00;24;09;00 - 00;24;14;20
Andrew J. Contiguglia
We can't think of what's going on in his mind, but why was that a good deal for you? What were you able to do under those circumstances?

00;24;14;20 - 00;24;28;12
Robert Grieve
We had 70 cars on a lot. What was I going to do with they're all 70 wrecked cars are in process of being fixed or whatever. I couldn't just get out without having a place to go. So I once again was in the corner with the guy and had to pay him what he wanted.

00;24;28;16 - 00;24;46;24
Andrew J. Contiguglia
But it was a win win for both of you because arguably you could have just said, Fine, I'm going to take everything, throw it into a storage unit, go find a place and you're building. It's going to be vacant. You were able to capitalize on the fact that he had nobody to come in and take your place.

00;24;46;24 - 00;24;47;17
Robert Grieve
Absolutely.

00;24;47;17 - 00;24;50;04
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Which meant we can either work together and I can.

00;24;50;04 - 00;24;51;04
Robert Grieve
Give you some time.

00;24;51;04 - 00;24;57;17
Andrew J. Contiguglia
I can give you time to find somebody. We were doing this about October, November of last year, 2016.

00;24;57;17 - 00;24;58;05
Robert Grieve
That's correct.

00;24;58;05 - 00;25;10;01
Andrew J. Contiguglia
And so he needed some time. He didn't have somebody who was just going to come in. He need to find a new tenant. You were ready to go, but it was like, hey, until I get there, I need a place to stay. Until you get there, you need a tenant.

00;25;10;04 - 00;25;11;18
Robert Grieve
Let's put this thing together.

00;25;11;18 - 00;25;12;14
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Yeah, let's make it.

00;25;12;22 - 00;25;17;22
Robert Grieve
And so, once again, not everybody was happy, but not everybody was sad either.

00;25;17;22 - 00;25;39;24
Andrew J. Contiguglia
But it was a good business move and a good compromise for both. For everybody. Yeah. It's not always about trying to crush the other person. It's about relationships. It's about trying to make it a win win for everybody. Be successful in building that, then it can help you out and you may gain something in the end. If you had just sort of had this vision of tomorrow or today, you would have maybe lost out.

00;25;39;24 - 00;25;47;02
Andrew J. Contiguglia
But when the vision is, I need something for the rest of my life or the next five, ten years, what am I going to do?

00;25;47;02 - 00;26;03;02
Robert Grieve
You got to think the long game, the short game is going to be here and gone. You got to think the long game, that's what we're able to do. Going back to buying this piece of property before we found this, we actually found another piece of property that was a bigger piece of property, had several buildings on it.

00;26;03;02 - 00;26;21;12
Robert Grieve
We could have made it work. It was zoned correctly. So we're like, Great, find the contract, give the earnest money. I'm doing a little digging called a town just like I did here. Right. Can we have a get together so I can talk to you about what we're going to do? And so the gal on the other in her phone said, Yeah, what's that property address?

00;26;21;12 - 00;26;42;08
Robert Grieve
And I gave her the address and she goes, Yeah, it's zoned correctly, but are you going to do an improvement? I said, Well, I have to put a painful stain and stuff. So if you had a fire, department's not going to allow that. And I said, Well, what does the fire department have to say about me buying this piece of property and putting up a painful because there's no fire hydrant within a reasonable distance, I believe it's 600 feet or 400 feet, something like that.

00;26;42;08 - 00;26;59;13
Robert Grieve
And because of that, they can shut it down. So now I'm scrambling to get out of that contract and get my money back. And during that this came up, which had city water fire hydrant on the corner over there. I walked it off, wanted a building department. Is this enough? That's crazy. What I learned.

00;26;59;15 - 00;27;04;26
Andrew J. Contiguglia
In two and a half seconds to walk from here to my front door. Is this acceptable? Is this okay?

00;27;04;26 - 00;27;15;05
Robert Grieve
But the building department was a great asset. You just ask them whatever and they're happy to answer you. They appreciate somebody come in and ask them questions and rather than having them happen to come and say, No, you can't do that right?

00;27;15;05 - 00;27;34;28
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Do your homework ahead of time. Don't just go into these deals, into these events thinking that everything is going to be hunky dory. There's a lot of work that needs to be done on the front end. All the due diligence you do when you're buying the business, all the due diligence you're doing before you are moving your business, all the due diligence you're going to be doing before you buy a building.

00;27;34;28 - 00;27;44;25
Robert Grieve
Not only that, but if you make friends with the people that are going to be important to it, whether it be your banking people or your building department or the vendors that are building it out for you, you need all that.

00;27;44;25 - 00;27;53;20
Andrew J. Contiguglia
So let's draw a conclusion to all of this. One more thing I wanted to sort of bring up, I think is an important issue. Your body shop doesn't own this building, does it?

00;27;53;22 - 00;27;54;29
Robert Grieve
No.

00;27;54;29 - 00;28;07;15
Andrew J. Contiguglia
So let's talk about how you decided from a strategic standpoint, from a business standpoint, not only for your business, but for you personally, how you decided to structure things relative to this building. In that respect.

00;28;07;20 - 00;28;28;02
Robert Grieve
A few things that went into that. There's different levels of protection that I was looking for. God forbid I would sue would be difficult to take everything all at once and principles that are involved, meaning people. So when it comes to nylons, I own nylons 100%. When it comes to the building, which is under a completely different corporation, Carol.

00;28;28;03 - 00;28;35;10
Robert Grieve
And I own that together. We wanted to have both of us owning this, one person owning that. It just moves the playing field around.

00;28;35;11 - 00;28;38;04
Andrew J. Contiguglia
And so your business pays, you rent.

00;28;38;15 - 00;28;41;25
Robert Grieve
Yes, it's another business. We do. We got ourselves another business.

00;28;42;03 - 00;28;58;23
Andrew J. Contiguglia
So that's great. So you structure it. So even though you're the owner of both of them, the nice thing is you have income coming into your body shop business and denials, but then you also have nylons, the tenant and you are also individually the landlord are you and Carol together and that other business is the landlord. Money comes in.

00;28;58;23 - 00;29;02;00
Andrew J. Contiguglia
So you're generating income on two different levels, which.

00;29;02;01 - 00;29;09;27
Robert Grieve
Yes. And then we're moving money from here over to there. We're making less money over here because the rent here is much bigger than it was at the.

00;29;10;07 - 00;29;11;07
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Cost of the landlord about.

00;29;11;08 - 00;29;25;08
Robert Grieve
Yeah well I use you know I'm not an easy guy to get along with sometimes but yeah, it was about levels of protection. It's about having two businesses and having two people that you want to be involved in the contract or the company overall.

00;29;25;19 - 00;29;32;24
Andrew J. Contiguglia
What do you think is the biggest lesson that you've learned on this journey to where you are today, 12 years after the start?

00;29;32;24 - 00;29;57;15
Robert Grieve
The most important thing that I would say is get to know your attorney, spend time with them. We get together at least once a month, if not more often than that, just to have a glass of wine and a cigar or whatever the case may be. And we talk about what's going on in each other's lives in those conversations come what I know and have happened in my life and have learned from same thing in yours and we help each other.

00;29;57;18 - 00;30;19;10
Robert Grieve
But you have an idea of what I have going on and what we're going through and how good things are going. And maybe not so good sometimes. And you always have some great advice and maybe we need relook at how we're proposing this or how this. Documents laid out in our contract is almost a living document. We keep changing it because the atmosphere keeps changing and we have to adapt to it.

00;30;19;10 - 00;30;31;29
Andrew J. Contiguglia
That's part of business. I think. You know, if you can't ebb and flow when things are moving, you can have problems. I think that there is a nature or a part of you in business that has to adapt to new things you may have and.

00;30;31;29 - 00;30;33;00
Robert Grieve
You have to forecast them.

00;30;33;00 - 00;30;33;25
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Too early.

00;30;33;25 - 00;30;46;20
Robert Grieve
You have to you know, Andy, I see this coming down the road for this industry. Well, then we ought to create this or we ought to do this to protect yourself from that. Spending that time and have those candid conversations just for an hour or two. It's been priceless.

00;30;46;27 - 00;30;58;04
Andrew J. Contiguglia
So if you could give one single piece of business advice to somebody who's running a company or starting a company, an entrepreneur, what do you think that piece of advice would be?

00;30;58;07 - 00;30;59;12
Robert Grieve
Become friends with your lawyer.

00;30;59;21 - 00;31;03;14
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Look, okay, I appreciate that.

00;31;03;14 - 00;31;28;04
Robert Grieve
No, it's the truth, because you need what we as business owners think is common sense does not necessarily go along with what judges and juries think is common sense. There's this interpretation that happens, whether it's in a situation or in a document. And what I think is perfectly common sense, you're like, Yeah, no, not so much. You really need to go at it from this angle.

00;31;28;04 - 00;31;30;24
Robert Grieve
That kind of conversation is priceless, right?

00;31;30;24 - 00;31;41;16
Andrew J. Contiguglia
I think people should involve lawyers in their business. Should they wait until a problem arises? Or do you think that this is something that a lawyer should just be part of their team that they are including throughout their daily operations?

00;31;41;18 - 00;31;59;07
Robert Grieve
Certainly not daily. Certainly once a month or at least once a quarter. Sit down and just talk about what's going on and yes, involve them. I don't care what business you're in, it's changing. And if your business or industry isn't changing, the people that are buying or using it are changing. So there's so many different things that are changing all the time.

00;31;59;07 - 00;32;15;10
Robert Grieve
You have to be on top of it. And from a legal perspective, it's good to have somebody that knows the law and can keep you out of trouble. Now, there's going to be those times that something weird happens. You get that phone call that it could be what they're paying me for that just blows you out of the water and nobody ever saw that come.

00;32;15;10 - 00;32;21;07
Robert Grieve
And now you're on the phone with your attorney, right? Because nobody could foresee that. You've got to have somebody that's willing to take that call at the same time.

00;32;21;08 - 00;32;35;27
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Well, listen, I appreciate your time, and I know that you have to get back to business here. But why don't you tell everybody how they can get in touch with you, where they can find you, social media, your website? What's the best way for people to get in touch with you if they want to find out more about your business, more about what you do?

00;32;35;28 - 00;33;00;13
Robert Grieve
The easiest way to even get to know us or communicate with us is via Facebook slash mailings. You can always call at 3037619219. We have our website violent solution dot com but Facebook is is really our centerpiece. And there's another piece of advice if you're in an industry in order to see outside of our box that we live in all day long, join some Facebook groups that are part of your industry.

00;33;00;13 - 00;33;19;12
Robert Grieve
It's going to give you a better insight from what's going on outside of your little area, whether it's happening in New York or California or just a couple of states away, things evolve and change and they kind of come your way or maybe you're in the forefront and you can share it with them. But that gives you also more to talk about with your attorney.

00;33;20;29 - 00;33;21;20
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Or again, your.

00;33;21;20 - 00;33;22;23
Robert Grieve
Accountants and everybody.

00;33;22;23 - 00;33;40;10
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Else. And that's another conversation for another time. We'll definitely hit on that. Well, thank you, sir. Oh, God bless America. See you, man. You're rock star. We'll definitely catch up soon. Thanks a lot. God bless you, too.

00;33;40;10 - 00;33;58;24
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Thank you for listening to the Don't Skip the legal podcast. I'm your host and accountability. I hope you enjoyed our time together in this great opportunity to peek behind the business door and examine the legal lessons in business. If you're keen to hear how these lessons can be applied in the real world, well, join us next week for another episode where you can listen in to another business success story.

00;33;58;24 - 00;34;19;08
Andrew J. Contiguglia
As always, you can head over to Canterbury Icon Forward Slash podcast to sign up to our email list as well as check out all the links and resources in our show notes. If you enjoyed this episode, you'd like to help support the podcast. Please share it with others, post about it on social media, or leave a rating and review to catch all the latest for me, you can follow me on Instagram, Twitter and TikTok at AJC East.

00;34;19;09 - 00;34;40;29
Andrew J. Contiguglia
Q Thanks again. This is Andy counterculture reminding you to don't skip legal good luck. The legal information contained in this podcast is intended for general informational and entertainment purposes only. It should only be used as a starting point for addressing your specific legal issue. The legal information I talk about does not create an attorney client relationship between you and me.

00;34;40;29 - 00;35;01;08
Andrew J. Contiguglia
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00;35;01;08 - 00;35;17;17
Andrew J. Contiguglia
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