Chief Sales Officer at Norsepower, Mr Jukka Kuuskoski, shares insights about their rotor sails, the role of technology, and a greener future for ocean transportation.
Chief Sales Officer at Norsepower, Mr Jukka Kuuskoski, shares insights about their rotor sails, the role of technology, and a greener future for ocean transportation.
NGHI
Welcome everyone and welcome to the podcast of BaseN Corporation. In today's episode we will be discussing about digitalization and digital transformation in the maritime shipping industry. There are many concepts mentioned across articles and news that you may have seen or heard about that are related to this topic - such as digital twin, data lake, big data, and Internet of Things (IoT). And we will bring up questions about these concepts to our guest for today: the Chief Sales Officer at Norsepower, Mr Jukka Kuuskoski. And I am Nghi Dang, Marketing Coordinator at BaseN Corporation. Joining also with me today is Chief Sales and Marketing Officer at BaseN, Corina Maiwald. So, I have the first question to you, Jukka: Why do you think digitalization is increasingly highlighted for the maritime industry now more than ever?
JUKKA
Oh, several reasons of course. But I'd say business-wise competition is one main reason. So, there are many companies wanting to have the same business from customers and they need to be more efficient, more accurate, more reliable, and all of this to be achieved in shipping business requires information and knowledge of how your systems are working. So, increasing amount of competition and the need to be more business-savvy in operations. So, that's why digitalization today is implemented in most of the operations that we see. Not only in shipping, of course, but elsewhere, everywhere, I should say, and that's an area with a lot of development potential and, also, and especially I would say in the traditional shipping business because that's not something that we could see at all being at a level which there is potential for.
NGHI
How do you see the impact of this increasing digitalization in the maritime to the whole logistics sector?
JUKKA
Yeah, ships and shipping are one piece of a big logistic chain and obviously the efficiency of the whole chain is the big question and the big picture that needs to be improved. So, it involves before loading ships, after loading ships, and other port operations, timing of how ships are entering ports, how long they have to wait and what is their optimal speed to move to the next port to make sure that it's most efficient and so on. All of this requires interaction between the different parties, and this has been and still currently is one of the challenges between the many players in the in the logistic chain. But of course, we need to focus on what we have access to, and what we can improve, and for us this means the ships and their operations and, of course, shipowners and charterers will then work also with their counterparties to improve the whole chain. But it's a complex set up but I'm confident that with more data and information incorporation it can be proved.
NGHI
How is Norsepower riding this wave of digitalization and digital transformation?
JUKKA
It’s a crucial aspect for us because Flettner rotors - which is the concept we have modernized - we've been able to do that modernization largely thanks to digitalization and the digital tools and technologies. So, the efficiencies and effectiveness, reliability, remote monitoring and diagnostics that we have implemented in our products it’s become possible because of the technology now available. So, I'd say it's even to the extent that Norsepower would not be what we are if there was no possibility for this type of implementation of digital technologies.
NGHI
Can you share a bit more with us, like, some insights into Norsepower’s journey with digital adoption? For example, when did you see the need for digitalization? What are the benefits you have gained and what are the obstacles or shortcomings you might have encountered?
JUKKA
Yeah, well, as I mentioned it's a crucial thing for our business. It's one of the key elements of our products that we have this type of technology embedded. So, we need information of wind conditions, ship’s speed, many other aspects of the environment around the rotor sails, where they operate and where the ship operates. And this data is all acquired by sensors and then processed by computers and algorithms that have been developed to analyze and give signals then to our drive and control system to make sure that what we implement as operation for rotor sail is effective and gives us the right result which is maximizing the net benefit of fuel saving. So, we make sure we are not using energy for spinning rotor sails if the wind conditions are not suitable, and we can do this accurately with quick reactions because we have information constantly coming in from the ships wind sensors, but we know what is the ship speed and heading and all these factors that have an influence. So, these had been actually the basis for building the whole control system of rotor sails that we have such information available. It would not be close to this if we were only dealing with the sort of old analog type of controls. Of course, it would be the best with that possible but this improves a whole lot total efficiency. Obstacles, shortcomings…I'd say that you know we have of course the best ability to influence our own system and own components and coordination of different parts of our own system, then it's the integration to ship systems. I wouldn't call it an obstacle, but I'd call it one part of the challenge of making sure everything works perfectly. And then, another is data transmission. So, of course, everything that's happening within the ship if it's sailing in the middle of the ocean, there might be issues that data transmission is not constantly as good as we would hope it to be. So, we need to prepare for all these kind of different operating situations and of course live accordingly. But there are certainly many aspects that we need to consider as challenges also with the integration to different systems.
NGHI
Right. So, what are other opportunities with the digitalization that you may be exploring in the future?
JUKKA
Yeah, looking at how rotor sails - the ones we have in operation now and ones we are going to deliver - we're learning a lot all the time with our customers who are the ship owners. Mainly, of course, shipyards and ship designers are much involved and through this learning we are able to improve and adjust our control systems to be operating in a way, supporting the ship's total efficiency improvement. So, we are not only looking and focusing on the maximizing of rotor sail efficiency but when there are several units on board, for example, we can start to adjust separately the rotor sails to improve the ship’s total efficiency in a better way when we have more information available, and we learn how the ship behaves in different weather conditions and on different operating situations. So, it’s a learning process we would not be able to do alone in any laboratory or office, but we need the interaction and experience with our customers who are also learning new things about how ships can be sailed, actually. It's something quite new to modern shipping that have been used to operating with diesel engines or similar and propellers mainly for propulsion and now we're bringing sails back to the ocean transportation which means that there is a new element with free energy and how to maximize the use of this free energy. I think that's the key.
NGHI
There's a lot of insights and articles out there and it has been said that digital transformation is a little bit different than digitalization. Like, digital transformation might mean to stretch beyond adopting just digital tools but kind of require businesses to rethink their entire business model. So, I wanna ask what about this digital transformation concept, how did this create the momentum for Norsepower?
JUKKA
I'm again or still thinking of the interaction between us and our customers. Not yet much between Norsepower and our suppliers. That's useful but thinking of our customers’ businesses, I think, the transformation is related to the interaction between different operators, different parties. I mentioned previously this challenge with ports and ships how to match the right time of arrival to avoid that ships are sailing too fast and then they need to wait several days for their slot to unload their cargo. They could sail slow or save fuel and avoid these kind of inefficiencies. So, it's a matter of developing systems that work together, so, you know, like challenge of large companies might have 10s or hundreds of ERP systems in their operations and it's how to merge them together to make sure that there should be maximal efficiency in the operation.
NGHI
This is a question for both of you but what critical issues in the maritime and shipping industry do you think digitalization and/or digital transformation can help solving?
JUKKA
From our perspective it’s the reduction of emissions, improving the environmental sustainability of shipping operations to improve the efficiency of using wind, the free energy available for ships, in doing this and achieving this target. So, the digital tools and systems help us doing this and of course help our customers in making it part of their everyday life because they need to train their people and lead their operations in a way which recognizes that this is a key factor in improving their businesses. And it's a learning process, not just the technical aspects but also culturally in companies, and in people's way of working.
CORINA
Sustainability is definitely a key thing and alongside the reduction of emissions, there is also the reduction of overall wastefulness and increasing overall efficiencies. When we look at the materials being used when building ships or cargo containers, tracking their entire lifecycle gives powerful insights on how to make things even longer lasting in the future. And on the efficiency side, enabling ships to take the best routes with optimal cargo load, and perfect timing what comes to loading and unloading, can bring an increase in efficiency that no one even thought possible before. We have one customer who built a workforce and asset tracking system for the construction industry and just by tracking the whereabouts of things and people, increases the construction speed quite a bit. Similar successes are definitely possible also in other industries and in the end that means that everyone is a winner - even if initial investments need to be made, they pay out. Then there are of course also other elements like parts of cargo getting lost or damaged on the way - that can be avoided as well when everything is connected, tracked and controlled through digitalization technologies. And last but not least there are constant innovations possible just like Norsepower’s rotor sails which are, in my opinion, a very smart technology and definitely pave the way for greener ocean transportation and thus actively enabling ship owners to do their part even more in battling the climate crisis. So, this was now a full circle back to sustainability.
NGHI
Right. And then where do you see the role of big data and data lakes in the enhancement of maritime industry?
JUKKA
Well, yeah, the term big data…big term. It's how to utilize the amount of, for example, information from sensors and wind statistics, weather statistics available from different sources, combining those and, of course, developing the algorithms which are able to produce results meaningful for the user. So, of course, it's a key thing which requires that, you know, that the targets are clearly set - what is we are trying to achieve with using, let's call it big data then, so how to collect, what to collect. So, we need to understand what information is needed. Are we already collecting that through sensors or some other sources and then how all of that is combined together? So, it's requiring multiple professional competencies to achieve. Then the end result, like practically any type of more complex systems today, that we require - the actual business or technical operations knowledge – but, of course, all of the software coding and that IT part of the business needs to be also specialists who understand the business as well.
CORINA
Of course, a lot of things are already connected and data is being extracted and analysed out of them. However, that often only happens in those specific silos and not everything is yet being combined. But by combining more data streams and analyzing how they influence each other, more options for optimizing things can be identified. It’s basically like putting together the full puzzle, utilizing the different pieces that are already there, and thus getting the big picture, the full view of everything. May it be all individual components and operations that are running on the ship or even all the buildings, people and operations that we see at the ports, or both things combined. The bigger picture we are able to create, the more we will understand. What impacts what and how and why. If we do this, then that happens. Operation A gets smarter and more efficient when we do this to thing B and that to thing C.
NGHI
Great, that’s true. So, now I wanna take another concept into the conversation. Digital twin. May it’s commonly understood at some at 3D model or a data repository of an existing physical machine or production line or a data collection sink. And digital twin analytics are set to rely on historical data such as, for example, in the incoming raw data stored in data lakes and the real tab generated data. So, this is also a question for both: What are your perspectives on digital twin and Internet of Things technologies applied in shipping and maritime industry?
JUKKA
Yeah, if I go first again. Yeah, we are definitely viewing this as a very interesting area for applying in our specific technology and products as well. It's in the interaction between the ship and the rotor sail performance. Rotor sail can improve for the ship. This is something we, as I mentioned, we're learning all the time together with our customers and the digital twin technology can help us be more accurate, find maybe even new issues that we have not realized before. How the ship behaves in different situations, and how rotor sails can be applied in the most efficient best way to help the ship operate in the most, let's say environmentally sustainable but also economically, most efficient way. So again, reducing fuel consumption, giving the ship a better sort of sailing experience if we put it in general terms. So, the digital twin includes not only operation of our product but it's the total system that's working, meaning also the ship’s characteristics.
CORINA
Ships and ports are both very complex, and when you look at everything in between it becomes even more complex. We are now only starting out to understand how to make sense of this complexity in order to really make things more efficient and more sustainable. So, when we look at a digital twin for a rotor sail or even a whole ship, the entire lifecycle of this specific thing can be stored, and the entire history can be analyzed and that is forming quite a solid foundation for constant improvements. When we know, for example, that one of the many components of the ship starts to behave outside of the normal pattern, then on demand maintenance can be done before any serious issues arise. And, of course, for the next physical products that the manufacturer will then design and produce, we can use all the running data and the analytics from the digital twins of the existing rotor sails, ships or other components that we do have out there and then use all of that to make the next one even more efficient. The industry has understood some of the potential of digital twins already. But mostly the general understanding is that digital twins are 3D models and animations, not yet the understanding of next generation digital twins that are the virtual master objects that collect, store, analyze and control everything. But the understanding is moving to the right direction because the industry already knows a lot about digitalization and this industry has been an early adopter of digitalization.
NGHI
And, so, if some companies in industries specifically want to adopt digital twin technology what are the key things you see that they need to understand first?
JUKKA
Well, of course, we expect and I'm sure that the company understands their own product well and how it behaves - what are the issues that are influencing its behavior and performance. So, those are, of course, things that need to be then measured. So, they need data, information, of such parameters but then the big thing also giving a lot of potential for further total improvement is understanding the surroundings. So, talking to the different stakeholders, they might be customers or might be other suppliers, or environmental conditions that might not have been previously so looked into. So, the aspect of improving the efficiency is to look around and collect that type of data integrated into the analyzing algorithms and then look at what you are able to achieve with that. So, I think many companies who have these types of systems that are interacting with different other components or systems, they are well aware of this. But that I see is the key, the sort of looking around and collecting information from others and becoming sort of more open and integrated.
CORINA
Understanding is naturally the key. Understanding what stakeholders are involved when adopting digital twins. Understanding that there’s a growing ecosystem and no one knows now how it will expand in the future as digital twins do enable innovation and that means also that more stakeholders and things will enter the ecosystem all the time. So, from the beginning one should think about that and use a digital twin platform that easily allows for adding new applications, sensors, RFID tags, devices, and whatnot. Then you also should understand what happens to the collected data, how is it stored, who has access to it, can it get lost, how can it be gathered to begin with - especially in rough sea conditions far out in the middle of the ocean. There is no need to be very technology-savvy but you need to understand what you want to achieve and who is impacted by it, and that things should be future-proof because you don’t want to start from scratch every few years when some technology or some sensors become outdated and/or vanish completely from the surface of the Earth.
NGHI
May I address this question first to Corina, but basically, it's a question for both: Why do you think these digital twin technology is getting more attention nowadays?
CORINA
As I said earlier, the realization that digital twins bring a tremendous increase in optimization and efficiency is already there. Then, as Jukka said, there is competition. There is a need to constantly improve what you are doing to remain competitive, and more importantly a need to keep innovating. Then there is also reputation. Ship accidents or large pieces of cargo getting lost might not happen very often in the large scale of things but when they happen, they usually gain a lot of attention and that causes some harm to one’s reputation. So, there is also a common interest to avoid such incidents and to maintain trust among all stakeholders. And again, almost everything comes with reduced costs when we look at using digital twins for ships, ship components, shipping processes, ports, and so on. So, yes, you need to invest something in the beginning but there will be a return on investment and that is naturally also a big driver in any industry.
NGHI
Right, Jukka, do you have any other thoughts?
JUKKA
To very much similar thoughts. The word competition included. So, definitely, there are business drivers to interest companies in this technology and that's the key why somebody would do and put efforts and investments in this. So, it's potential that has been realized for each and whoever is thinking about their business and how to improve, how to stay more competitive or create the leading edge. These are the aspects that can achiever.
NGHI
Right. So, you might have also mentioned this in previous answer with two tight back now a bit too Norsepower and digital twin. So, what are the key areas you see this digital twin technology brings benefits for Norsepower?
JUKKA
Yeah, I think for us the main key benefit is to be able to improve our customers business even more. I mean that's the benefit for our customers which means it will be a benefit for us. So, in various different ways it's possible to improve the total efficiency and performance of our customers’ operations through using our systems and obviously the elements and characteristics, including digital twins.
NGHI
Right. So, we would also like to ask you this final question: What role does BaseN and our platform play for you now and also in the future?
JUKKA
Well, today, of course, we are very much working together with the technology BaseN can provide, the platform, and that's an important part of our product’s features and performance enablers. So, of course, we are very much looking forward to working together and developing our systems with your technology and professional team to be able to maintain the lead that we have today in auxiliary wind propulsion and mechanical sails - that's our specialty.
NGHI
Yes, right, so then that concludes our podcast today and thank you Jukka and Corina for joining the podcast.