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Politics Interfere With The Next Generation of Vaccines Beyond mRNA Ep.323

• Dr. Michael Koren, Keving Geddings • Episode 323

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Dr. Michael Koren Joins Kevin Geddings to discuss how the current political situation in Washington, D.C. is interfering with clinical research. They discuss the Vaxart trial, that is looking at the next generation of oral COVID vaccines, and how it has been affected by the Trump administration's inconsistent orders regarding vaccines. Dr. Koren points out that the Vaxart trial doesn't actually use mRNA and is poised to be a solution beyond this technology, but that the administration has stopped (at least temporarily) this research anyway.

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Announcer:

Welcome to the MedEvidence Monday Minute Radio Show hosted by Kevin Geddings of WSOS St Augustine Radio and powered by ECNORE Research Group. Each Monday morning, Dr. Michael Koren calls in to bring you the latest medical updates with insightful discussions. Medevidence is where we help you navigate the real truth behind medical research, with both a clinical and research perspective. So sit back, relax and get ready to learn about the truth behind the data in medicine and healthcare. This is MedEvidence!

Kevin Geddings:

We appreciate Dr. Michael Koren and his patience in joining us. We've had some technical issues after a lightning strike over the weekend here at the radio station, but Dr. Koren has been hanging in. There been a real trooper. Thank you, doc. How are you doing this morning?

Dr. Michael Koren:

I'm doing well, Kevin. Good morning

Kevin Geddings:

Yes, good morning. Lots going on with how we handle vaccinations, how we handle disease prevention and the like, with the change in administrations and, of course, a brand new Secretary of Health and Human Services. I'm not sure we've ever had so much drama at HHS, at least in my lifetime, but there's a lot going on there, correct?

Dr. Michael Koren:

Oh, there is, there is. You know, you and I usually don't talk politics, but every once in a while I guess you have to. Yeah, and we have a situation that we're particularly aware of where we have somebody running HHS who has historically been against vaccines.

Dr. Michael Koren:

When he was confirmed, he said he would support vaccines to the extent that scientific evidence is available to justify the vaccines, which is reasonable, and then since then we've had a lot of drama on vaccines. So you and I have actually talked about a program that we're doing that involves an oral COVID booster. This is actually the next generation of COVID vaccine. It's not the mRNAs, it's another way of presenting the antigen or the part of the protein of COVID that actually elicits an immune response, and so we would think that's something that this administration would be really excited about. Well, unfortunately, this study and the work that we've been doing has had very bumpy starts in the current environment. So this is a study that we actually started last year, and in February we got word from the sponsor that this study would be put on hold indefinitely as DOGE was evaluating the study and we figured it would go away.

Dr. Michael Koren:

But in fact it came back in May and they said we're going to go, we're going to do this study. It's going to be a 10,000 patient study around the United States and it's actually being funded by BARDA, which is part of the federal government that protects us against bioterrorism threats, so, interestingly, it's actually being supported by the Department of Defense. Well, fast forward to last week and HHS announced that they were no longer supporting mRNAs research, and that happened simultaneously with our sites, our research organization, getting a stop work order stating that all the work on this vaccine study, which is called the Vaxart study, would be halted. And this is head-scratching, Kevin, because the HHS statement says that they don't want to support mRNA research because they want to support other types of research, that they actually stopped the vaccine study that looked at the next generation of COVID vaccines. So maybe you can explain that to me.

Dr. Michael Koren:

I know you have a little bit of a political background.

Kevin Geddings:

Well, it's so inconsistent and, of course, to the credit of the first Trump administration, they did a lot in this area to help us deal with COVID right.

Dr. Michael Koren:

Totally. The other crazy part of this whole thing is that a crowning achievement of the first Trump administration was Project Warp Speed. They got these mRNA vaccines from the bench to the patient within less than a year, which is unheard of. It was absolutely unbelievable. And now, during the second administration, there's this word about faith, but it's totally inconsistent. It's it's. You can deal with a philosophy, but you can't deal with a changing philosophy. It's very difficult.

Kevin Geddings:

Right and I know there's a lot of politics and a lot of different opinions about the different effectiveness ofthe COVID vaccines, but overall, we're all pretty confident, including most folks in the Trump administration that millions of lives were saved from the COVID vaccine, Correct?

Dr. Michael Koren:

No doubt. No doubt you and I have chatted about this as well. What we've learned from COVID is that it was a devastating illness, particularly early on, for vulnerable people, including people who are over the age of 65. It was less severe of an illness for younger people. The flip side is that people who are younger were more likely to have an adverse reaction to the vaccine Again very rare, but they were still more likely to have it. And older people actually tolerated it pretty darn well. So the obvious conclusion should be well, the older and more vulnerable people get it and the younger, healthier people don't have to get it. That would have been the reasonable way to look at it.

Dr. Michael Koren:

Of course there's all these discussions about mandates and back and forth, but there was never really a doubt about who the vaccine worked in and who was a little bit more prone for side effects. And, by the way, those side effects are really really rare. We're talking about, you know, 1 in 40,000, 1 in 50,000 so just put that into perspective. But so this whole thing has turned to becoming a medical discussion about who should be targeted for the vaccine. It's turned into vaccines are good or bad, or mRNA is good or bad. Well, remind everybody that mRNA is actually Nobel Prize winning technology. It's just absolutely amazing. It's American technology. I think I mentioned this before. One of the Nobel Prize winners is actually my classmate in college. I took that course with this guy.

Dr. Michael Koren:

And it's solid stuff. It really makes a difference in people's lives, and to want to ban mRNA would be foolish. Now. The good news is that private industry can still support the mRNA research, but then to say the next generation's vaccine shouldn't be developed is just absurd. So we're in this strange place, Kevin, and hopefully there'll be some reasonable resolution. People should talk to their representatives, let them know that they're supportive of these health care initiatives, they're supportive of doing research in communities, that we, as you know, really make a difference in people's lives, either through the treatments that we are able to develop, or just because people have a great experience with research, so unfortunately there's negative consequences in our community.

Kevin Geddings:

Yeah, no absolutely.

Kevin Geddings:

It would strike me too that it puts us farther behind the eight ball for the next pandemic. And maybe there's not another COVID, but there's always something else out there, whether it's an Ebola or something else. Correct, and now we're just kind of stalled?

Dr. Michael Koren:

Absolutely Again, covid was a different type of coronavirus, so coronaviruses are ubiquitous. It could be a different type that comes out, or a change in influenza virus or parainfluenza. There's lots of different viruses out there that can mutate and cause severe illness in a pandemic. So it's always around the corner. You know, you've seen it in our lifetimes with the Hong Kong flu and then we had the swine flu and COVID. So there's all these waves of viral illnesses that we need to be prepared for, and mRNA actually helps us get prepared really quickly, because with this technology we literally can develop a vaccine within weeks, almost days.

Dr. Michael Koren:

So it's really quite remarkable.

Kevin Geddings:

Yeah Well, any questions you have, not only about vaccines but your overall health in general, various other chronic conditions you may be dealing with or a loved one is dealing with chronic conditions you may be dealing with, or a loved one is dealing with a great source for medical information you can trust that's outside of politics. You know that's based on fact and truth. Go to MedEvidence. com, right, Dr. Koren.

Dr. Michael Koren:

Absolutely. It is our platform to explain the Truth Behind the Data, help people understand it. The conflicting claims on the internet are just mind-boggling. I just get so many calls. I read somewhere or I heard somewhere on the internet that this supplement will prevent Alzheimer's or will change my blood pressure or help me sleep, for the case may be, and I look at these things and very rarely are there data or studies to support these claims, whereas everything we do is based on science, based on studies that support the claim. So, whether it's giving your cholesterol check, your lipoprotein( a) check or dealing with obesity, we have lots of studies doing that. Dealing with congestive heart failure, dealing with arthritis, we have means of dealing with all these things in a scientific environment. The truth behind the data, and you get that information from MedEvidence!

Kevin Geddings:

Y eah definitely Trust MedEvidence, not Snapchat or Instagram or wherever you're getting your information.

Kevin Geddings:

This is science-backed information that's right, available for you, at your fingertips. All you have to do is go to MedEvidence. com. That's MedEvidence. com. Also, if you would like to participate in some leading clinical trials, you can do that. It's pretty cool. You can do it from right here in St. John's County, ENCORE Research Group. They have offices right next door to UF Flagler Hospital, off of 312 in the Whetstone Building, and there's a team there that's ready to connect you with some of these clinical trials. The best way to get started is to call them. I'm going to give you this local phone number 904-730-0166. Punch this into your cell phone 904-730-0166. And if you can't remember that, at least remember this website EncoreDocs. com. That's spelled with an E- EncoreDocscom. Well, Dr. Koren, thank you very much for joining us and we'll talk to you again next week, okay.

Dr. Michael Koren:

Sounds great. Hopefully you'll repair the studio from the lightning strike.

Kevin Geddings:

Yeah, we're working. It Got a big old reel of duct tape, so we're doing pretty good.

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