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A Physician Leader's Journey Through Practice and Pandemic

• Dr. Michael Koren, Dr. Michael Myers

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Dr. Michael Myers joins Dr. Michael Koren for an interview about his physician journey from medical school to private practice, healthcare administration, health consulting, teaching, and writing. Dr. Myers talks about his serendipitous journey through many parts of the healthcare system and how this shaped his unique career path through medicine's changing landscape. The two also transition to modern discussions on vaccines and the need for credible information in this space.

Dr. Myers is writing a book titled "The Vaccine Bible," to be published on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B0BL15KXRV/allbooks

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Have a question for Dr. Koren? Email him at askDrKoren@MedEvidence.com

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Music: Storyblocks - Corporate Inspired

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Announcer:

Welcome to MedEvidence, where we help you navigate the truth behind medical research with unbiased, evidence-proven facts Hosted by cardiologist and top medical researcher, Dr. Michael Koren.

Dr. Michael Koren:

Hello, I'm Dr. Michael Koren, the executive editor of MedEvidence! And I have a really fun job today. I'm really excited about this part of my job, which is to interview my former classmate and a real leader in medicine, Dr. Michael Myers. Mike, thank you for being part of our family here at MedEvidence!

Dr. Michael Myers:

Thanks for having me on.

Dr. Michael Koren:

Yeah, so Mike and I caught up recently at our reunion, our medical school reunion.

Dr. Michael Koren:

We won't tell you how many years.

Dr. Michael Koren:

It was because we want to protect the innocent here, but we had a fascinating conversation and it reminded me of a few things about Mike that I really want to share with our audience. Mike was a true leader at Harvard Medical School and you can imagine the kind of students we probably had about 165 people in our class and, quite frankly, a few prima donnas amongst us maybe but Mike really popped as a leader amongst leaders and I'm fascinated to talk a little bit about him and what got him to that point, and then for him to share his really interesting and unique career path that led to a major role in administrative medicine. So, Mike, welcome to MedEvidence and let's start telling your story. Where'd you grow up, how'd you become such a leader at Harvard and how'd you get to be

Dr. Michael Koren:

where you are now?

Dr. Michael Myers:

I grew up in America. I was born in Kansas City. And then, right when I was a baby, my mom and my dad were 17 and 18 when I was born, but my father was the youngest of four and his eldest sister, my aunt Stacy, was married to a surgeon in LA. And my dad wanted to finish his education, and at that time California provided tuition-free college education, so he moved his whole family to Los Angeles when I was a little baby. I was born in 1959,

Dr. Michael Myers:

So I lived

Dr. Michael Koren:

You let the cat out of the bag.

Dr. Michael Myers:

Sorry, okay.

Dr. Michael Myers:

So I grew up in LA. We stayed there until about 1971. And then we moved back to Kansas City where I went to sixth grade, junior, high, high school, and then from there I just started moving east. I went to college in Baltimore Johns Hopkins, Harvard Medical School had my whole career in the Boston area, got an MBA. So that's kind of where I am. I'm a citizen of the US of A, to be honest.

Dr. Michael Koren:

Yeah, I love it. I love it, and tell us a little bit about your medical training. What was your specialty and how you got into administrative medicine.

Dr. Michael Myers:

So I need to give complete credit to one of my mentors, Dr. Ronald Arky, who ran the Peabody group when - a society we were at at Harvard. He was my internship advisor and at the time we had to sort of choose specialties. I thought I was going to be a dermatologist and I had done all kinds of research in Derm and in MGH. And I'm going to say this because I literally believe,

Dr. Michael Koren:

And MGH, is Mass General Hospital.

Dr. Michael Myers:

Now it's known as MGB, Bass General Brigham, to really highlight the prominence of Mass General over everybody else, right? So man's, man's greatest hospital, as we all remember from the House of God Hospital, as we all remember from the House of God. So, anyway, I was on my bicycle leaving my research lab, you know, riding to Somerville, and I heard, I literally heard a voice, and this is what the voice said to me. The voice said zits. That was what the voice said, zits, and I don't. It was literally an audible voice and so I said, oh my God, God's right, like I have invested all of this time and effort in developing You've got the best education in the solar system and you're going to throw it away to be a dermatologist. I mean, this is really serious, Mike. Okay, I'm really serious.

Dr. Michael Koren:

Okay, okay. Well, again, apologies to our dermatology colleagues who I love and do really good work, but I hear you Keep on going.

Dr. Michael Myers:

I went to my internship. I mean the whole thing was set in motion. I went to Dr. Arky. I said, Dr. Arky, I can't be a dermatologist. I said I heard from God. He spoke to me from on high. He put his I don't know if you know Ron Arky, but he's a very he's a very unassuming quiet guy.

Dr. Michael Myers:

He kind of put his he's kind of a big teddy bear. He kind of put his arm around me. He said Mike. He said Mike, you belong at Mount Auburn Hospital as a primary care doctor. That's where you belong. And so that's how I ended up at Mount Auburn in primary care and then the rest is history from that point.

Dr. Michael Koren:

Yeah, wow, yeah yeah.

Dr. Michael Koren:

Ron was such a fabulous guy.

Dr. Michael Koren:

I was having a conversation with him. I had a similar conversation with him when I was trying to decide between medicine and surgery and, yeah, so that was kind of my decision point, but so keep on going. So you ended up doing family medicine, or what was your actual medicine?

Dr. Michael Myers:

Internal medicine. To be honest back then, and you know Harvard in the mid eighties was not a place that encouraged people to pursue family medicine or primary care medicine, very research oriented. And I was kind of out there with my interest in those areas of work and so went to Mount Auburn. I've had pretty much a straight shot through the whole process from kindergarten, so straight from grade school to junior high, junior high, high high to college, college, med, and then from medical school to internship residency. So I was at Mount Auburn between 1985 and 1988. I had come from a family of doctors And dentist in Kansas City, los Angeles and Texas. The family I guess you would call it the family model was kind of hanging your shingle up and having your own practice. So I did that. I decided to pursue that in Dorchester, Massachusetts, where I had my first private practice.

Dr. Michael Koren:

Okay, interesting, interesting. So, as I mentioned, you were certainly a leader in our class. So if you survey the members of our class and say who are the five leaders, your name would come up for everybody. So what was it about that upbringing that led you to be a leader at Harvard Medical School?

Dr. Michael Myers:

Well, probably a gift of gab, a real drive toward excellence. You know, and I just generally like people it sounds a little corny and sometimes it isn't so much that you choose a leadership position, but it chooses you. I mean, the vacuum created by people having, not just good ideas, but ideas that are actionable and people that are willing to step in and to carry out those ideas is a fairly small numerator. So I've always been a person interested in solving problems, not necessarily complaining about things. I move very quickly through Kubler-Ross stages, right, I don't stay in anger, depression or bargaining, you know, I get to acceptance and problem solving. That is really what a leader is called to do and paid to do, not to kvetch and complain, but really to solve problems. And we have a lot of big ones and they won't go away, and so that's kind of where I grew up and came in and the kind of work I've done throughout my career.

Dr. Michael Koren:

So interesting, so interesting so let's fast forward. You were in private practice for a while, but you ended up having a good portion of your career in administrative medicine. So how'd that happen?

Dr. Michael Myers:

So okay, so I am following the family model shingle out in Dorchester, thinking I'm just going to be a basic family doc. This is the mid eighties, late eighties, in Boston and Massachusetts, not realizing that the world around me was changing. You know, it was more about managed care, population health, medicine. All of these things were going on and I am literally struggling to hold on to what amounts to be an inner city practice in the outskirts of the Boston area, and I just found it to be impossible to carry out. I was basically at one point working three different jobs to not only pay back student loans but to support my very young family and then also to pay the overhead of my practice. Just to tell one little tiny story from that moment.

Dr. Michael Myers:

So my son at that point was just a little kid and I remember I would have this kind of existence where I would work my day job, have on my scrubs, come home for dinner, change and then go to the ER or do rounds at the nursing home, because I had my private practice nursing home directorship and I would do moonlighting at Kearney Hospital and Trey would never meet me. Trey would never meet me at the door, you know, and he was literally waiting there. It was snot coming down his nose and kind of looking at me and he said to me he was a little boy. I still remember this. It breaks my heart. He said Daddy, daddy, are you a real doctor? I said, yeah, I'm a real doctor. So he goes because I need a real doctor.

Dr. Michael Myers:

And I looked down at him and he was basically in the throes of having an asthma attack. I took, I took him to his pediatrician. He had to be admitted to Children's Hospital and put on IV. So that kind of illustrates how busy I was. I was not even observant enough to see that my kid was so sick that he needed to actually. So he's like are you a real doctor? Because I have to go see a real doctor. So things were yeah, go ahead.

Dr. Michael Koren:

Well, you got him to where he needed to go, so you were actually both a dad and a real doctor, From my perspective.

Dr. Michael Myers:

It's kind of hard to balance that kind of work life thing.

Dr. Michael Myers:

But anyway, I tried to pursue this and, you know, did my best. Anyway, then what happened is somehow I got into the Rolodex of the media and I think my byline was again something I don't think you realize. But I'll now tell the story. Brilliant African-American Harvard doctor fails miserably in private practice. That was kind of like my byline practice. That was kind of like my byline. So I was on 60 Minutes, I was on 2020.

Dr. Michael Myers:

I was on the cover of the Boston Globe Magazine right in about 1988, 1989. And that brought me to the attention of people at MIT in their medical department of college health service. Arnie Weinberg, who I knew, called me up from my days at Mount Auburn hospital. He said Mike, you look miserable on the cover of the globe. Come work for us, come work for us, we'll make you happy. So that's literally how I went from, you know, closing down my private practice over to MIT. And you know, Mike, before we take a bit of a pause, that is really been the the trajectory of my career. It has been total serendipity. It has never been like me trying to make things work. It's like opportunities kind of come my way and then they come at the right moment and I just go for it. So that's how I got my job at MIT, which was my last clinical job, and from there I kind of turned my ship.

Dr. Michael Koren:

But preparation meets opportunity, so you were prepared.

Dr. Michael Myers:

That's one of my favorite quotes and it's inside Vanderbilt Hall in the Dome. It's the quote by Louis Pasteur chance favors the prepared mind. Yes,

Dr. Michael Koren:

There you go. Exactly I love that quote, yes.

Dr. Michael Koren:

Yep, absolutely so. Then you went to MIT, I guess, to learn some management skills, whatever happened there, and then you ended up in New Jersey, as I understand it, very involved in running a doctor's group, if I'm not mistaken.

Dr. Michael Myers:

So 11 different jobs. I won't go through all of them. Between residency, MIT was my last position. I got a call out of the blue from a headhunter indicating I would be the perfect candidate for a job at Blue Cross, Blue Shield, and that's when I turned my ship. So I became the associate medical director for government programs at Blue Cross, which meant that I helped to provide medical policy insight for Medicare and Medicaid in this region from Blue Cross.

Dr. Michael Myers:

Uh, they actually um paid for me to get an MBA and then, as I was getting my MBA, laid me off right. That was my first layoff. So it laid me off across my brilliant career and, um, I got this great idea to start my own business, my own healthcare consulting business, and I then started my own business, or had this business idea, shopped it around to some people that I knew at Coopers and Librant, ended up being hired there to run a new division they were starting. Then Coopers merged with Price Waterhouse Cooper's. I was there for a bit, they laid me off. I started my own company, then more healthcare consulting and then I ended up at Partners Healthcare working for MGB and the Brigham et cetera, and basically kind of ran medical groups as a medical director from Partners to Hawthorne Medical Associates, compass, and then down in New Jersey at Summit Health. So that's kind of like the trajectory of my brilliant career in medicine, such as it was.

Dr. Michael Koren:

So did you learn things from medical school dealing with the prima donnas in our class that helped you run these huge medical practices?

Dr. Michael Myers:

So, yeah, because there's a lot of big egos that you have to manage and you know what motivates doctors, right, because all of us are sort of grade-grubbing pre-meds we all think we're making A's in the class when we really are not and I think it's also learning how to motivate people by understanding what makes them tick. So that kind of knowledge I was marinated in at Harvard and then it's kind of continued to cultivate and germinate as I, you know, continued on, and I think that's kind of what made me effective is that you know, managing positions is very hard, right, because they are extraordinarily hardworking, intelligent, ethical, very high standards. I'm going to say this. They also like money, okay. So I know I'm not supposed to say that, but it is true.

Dr. Michael Koren:

Who doesn't?

Dr. Michael Myers:

This is American medicine, so this is what it's all about. So finding ways to thread that needle, sometimes to actually influence, impact their behavior is it's not easy, but I had a finesse and ability to do that. So that's what made me, I think, effective in what I did in my career.

Dr. Michael Koren:

Yeah I love that, I love that. So I'm going to transition a little bit here

Dr. Michael Koren:

Because I know the other thing that you're very passionate about is communicating with the public.

Dr. Michael Myers:

Yes.

Dr. Michael Koren:

In fact you have a book that you've published related to the COVID-19 pandemic and you

Dr. Michael Myers:

So like a lot of us, literally caught by surprise in March of 2020, All of us in medicine have our own unique stories, but people like me in medical leadership had to turn on a dime and become infectious disease specialists, epidemiologists, public health professionals to sort of understand how to lead our practice groups through this new pandemic. So I literally found myself becoming all those things right. I had to learn about infectious diseases, I had to learn about epidemiology things about public health, and literally, as you remember, the news about COVID was changing almost hour by hour, day by day, week by week, until even when we had a vaccine that was developed in 11 months, there was still a lot going on. And then we had the variants, and so I found myself at the- oh, here's what really happened:

Dr. Michael Myers:

A college that was Judy Salerno our classmate is on their board Stonehill College in Easton, massachusetts, contacted me about being a scientific consultant to their COVID-19 program because they were trying, like a lot of colleges, to keep students in school and keep workers and students safe. So I was a scientific advisor to that effort for a while and I really loved being in the college environment, and so from there I actually became very close friends with the president and the chief of staff and I approached him and said, hey, listen, this COVID thing's going to be over pretty soon. You guys are going to fire me, but I really like Stonehill and I have an idea for a course I'd like to teach or a book I'd like to write, and that's how I basically developed. I taught two courses there. One was a general course on the American healthcare system and the other was basically a seminar for senior health science majors, which became my textbook, Covidology, a field guide. So I used the seminar to dress, rehearse various ideas, and I didn't even have an editor. I just wrote a book proposal and I submitted it to the acquisition editors of the three biggest publishers of STEM textbooks.

Dr. Michael Myers:

Two of them ghosted me. One of them responded within four hours I want to give him credit Chuck Crumley, CRC Press, Taylor and Francis Group. That guy. That guy got he got back to me within four hours literally of submitting my book proposal. He goes Dr. Mike, this is a great idea. We would love to work with you. Let's go for it. And we did. And I literally wrote that book in four months on the road because we traveled. We took a cross country trip from Boston to Palm Springs, my husband and I and our little dog, because we thought we were going to retire in Palm Springs, and I wrote COVIDology over that four-month period when I was on California.

Dr. Michael Koren:

So cool, super cool. Show the book. I know you have it by you. There you go. You should be very proud of it. Sars-cov-2 virus. Very cool, yes, very cool.

Dr. Michael Myers:

Cover Spike protein, the prominent spike protein Spike protein up there right Like little nutmegs sitting up there.

Dr. Michael Koren:

Yeah, I love it.

Dr. Michael Koren:

Yeah, so show one more time, so the audience can get a good, look, there you go

Dr. Michael Myers:

At a Amazon near you.

Dr. Michael Myers:

if you use Amazon,

Dr. Michael Koren:

That sounds great Well.

Dr. Michael Koren:

I haven't read it yet, but it's now on my list of things to read. So thank you for sharing that, and I know that you're looking at another book as we speak, so I know that that's still in the formative phases, but tell us a little bit.

Dr. Michael Myers:

So the book's title is the Vaccine Bible From Anthrax to Zika, nature's Most Destructive Germs and the Science that Keeps Us Safe. and I don't have to remind anyone that right now we are in the throes of a watershed moment in our country's culture, where leaders who are in charge of federal health policy around vaccines or science or a number of things, are frankly anti-science, pseudoscience, anti-vax. I'm not going to name names, but I think that there is going to be a great Cue and cry and need for what I call the Fannie Farmer cookbook of vaccines. People just want basic objective. Listen, you can have an opinion about anything, but have an informed opinion based upon actual facts. Two plus two is four. There is a law of gravity, there is germ theory, bacteria and viruses and fungi and parasites exist. These things are settled.

Dr. Michael Myers:

There is no question about any of this stuff. I don't know how I've ended up in this space, but I have ended up as a huge proponent for this great technology that is historically responsible for saving millions of people's lives. Just to say one thing back in the late 50s we celebrated Jonas Salk for discovering the polio vaccine. There was a ticker tape parade. I mean, people worldwide, you know, lauded this. Where has that feeling gone? Where is that feeling, you know? And so I'm hoping that through the Vaccine Bible, to add to, in that space I am. I'm not political, this is not a polemic. I'm not arguing with people. I want to give people who are even vaccine skeptic but science curious, information that will help them have a intelligent conversation with their friends and family, their daughters and grandchildren and their physicians about vaccine decisions that they're going to have to make for themselves or for their families. That's what the vaccine Bible is.

Dr. Michael Koren:

Yeah, I love that. I love that. And you used a word in your description of this passion of yours, which is culture, and I think the culture of scientific curiosity let's use that word or wanting to understand things from a scientific point of view, was different in the 1950s compared to the way it is today.

Dr. Michael Koren:

And I think that both of us have a passion around getting back to the culture of scientific curiosity and helping people understand that we have scientific questions and we have ways of answering those scientific questions. And although we don't know everything, there's certain things we definitely know well, there's certain things we definitely don't know and, of course, there's a process to figure out the stuff that we don't know. And to that point, you and I were just talking about something we kind of crossed paths in an interesting way. So you told me how you got into this public health space and for me, as a practicing cardiologist that ran a lot of clinical trials, I was called into service when COVID-19 hit because I knew how to run clinical trials. So here I am in Northeast Florida with a large clinical trial group and we needed to test these vaccines for a couple of reasons. One is all of our other studies went away. They were put on hold by the government and the sponsors because of concern about the contagion of COVID-19. And two, of course, with Project Warp Speed, there was so much focus on getting these products to the market as quickly as possible and I got to participate then and, just like you, learned a lot more about virology and epidemiology and other things than I would ever imagine as a cardiologist, but it was a fascinating learn, and as part of what I had to do, I had to reach out to our local community and get people comfortable with the idea of being in a clinical trial that used messenger RNA vaccines, and so it was a fascinating experience for me, and one of the things I learned early on in this experience was that there was a cross-cultural connection between African and Middle Eastern culture and European culture, and that happened in the melting pot of the Massachusetts Bay Colony in Boston, and so it was an interesting story about somebody named Onesimus who was the slave of Cotton Mather back in the early 1700s, and I learned this actually from an African American person at one of my conferences. I had never heard of Onesimus at that time and then did the research to learn about it, but it's fascinating.

Dr. Michael Koren:

Onesimus was inoculated in Africa, came to the colonies as a teenager or as an older boy, and then eventually became a slave to Cotton Mather, who named him Onesimus, by the way, because that's actually the name of a slave in the Bible. It's in the New Testament when a slave, a Caucasian slave, named Onesimus, ran away from his owner, who was actually an early Christian bishop, and the apostle Paul was responsible for trying to connect reconciliation between this slave owner and this bishop. So that's an aside, but that's what the name means. It actually means useful or beneficial in Greek, and so he wasn't using his African name, he was using this name that Cotton Mather came up with. History is that the two of them collaborated on an early clinical trial in 1721, when smallpox came to Boston from the UK and everybody knew it was going to come, because the ssilors are coming back and forth and eventually they're going to bring it. And sure enough, this epidemic of smallpox hit Boston Back in those days, literally, Mike, a third of the population could be wiped out by smallpox.

Dr. Michael Koren:

And Onesimus and Cotton Mather got together. They inoculated about 200 or so people and the people who were inoculated only had a 2% mortality rate versus a 16% mortality rate amongst the general population of Boston during this pandemic. So it was a really good example of one, a scientific experiment that showed a difference. Example of one, a scientific experiment that showed a difference. Two, this cross-cultural cooperation, a concept that really developed in Africa being now used by Europeans. And three, reporting the results, which is such a key part. If you do things and you just kind of learn from your own experience, that's one thing, but then reporting the results to the general public and to other medical professionals is a really important piece of this sharing of knowledge. And certainly you're pulling from that tradition by doing what you're doing with your vaccine Bible. So again, we're super proud of you and thank you for the work and we can't wait to see it.

Dr. Michael Myers:

Let me tease out a couple of things from that story which I also find fascinating. So this clinical trial was run, as you know, at a time before formal germ theory was even understood. We didn't really understand how these diseases were transmitted or what they were caused by, right, people were still believing in the humors and, you know, bloodletting and other things as a means to actually cure diseases and ailments, right, and so that's kind of amazing itself. I think the other thing this illustrates too is the meaning of meritocracy. It doesn't matter that the originator of this idea was a black man or black people. Practically it worked. He is showing how it's saving people's lives. It doesn't matter that it was a black person that did that.

Dr. Michael Myers:

If there's a benefit that we can derive from it, bring it on right. And to me that is what any culture or any nation should really relish and celebrate. Is the ideas that we're able to share that benefit all irrespective of their source or where they came from. Right, and unfortunately we are a long way today from that, and it's a sad comment here. I don't know if you have followed Robert Rice. He has a new memoir called Coming Up Short and he talks about. He basically apologizes on behalf of our baby boom generation he was born in 1946, for not leaving a better world and actually creating the kind of meritocracy that they were hopeful around developing, and because there's a lot going on and I don't want to name names or talk about people, but we're a long way from that at this particular point, sadly.

Dr. Michael Koren:

Yeah, sure, yeah, yeah, and I'm not sure I wouldn't completely agree that there is a complete lack of meritocracy. But to your point, I think that we can do a better job. But I think the way we all do a better job is by just sharing these important stories including the Onesimus Cotton Mather story, where people from very different cultures work together.

Dr. Michael Myers:

And the history is important. It's important to understand the sources and the stories good, bad and indifferent, right, this is part of history, yeah.

Dr. Michael Koren:

Right, absolutely, absolutely so. To me that's fascinating. And also, let's not forget the learning of the past, I think, is another important message. I think sometimes that has occurred and it's really valuable to remind ourselves of that. So, again, we're looking forward to seeing your book come out, and it sounds like it's going to be a nice primer that will help people understand all these things.

Dr. Michael Koren:

By the way, this comes up all the time.

Dr. Michael Koren:

I was at a family event recently and we have a new baby in our family and the parents of the baby were asking me as a medical professional not that I'm a particular expert in pediatrics, of course, but I know a little bit about vaccines now and they were concerned. These are very educated people and they were concerned whether or not it was safe to give multiple vaccines to their young infant all at the same time. They said wouldn't it make sense if you spread it out more? And I think that was a little bit of a legitimate question, one that I'm really not qualified to answer at all. But the point being here is that there's been a lot of now questions about vaccines, which are fair and legitimate, but giving the vaccines are not in question. You know, all these things are safe and effective, and whether or not we can do better at our distribution process or the timing of these vaccines is something that we're certainly interested in research, but that doesn't take away from the fact that vaccines save lives.

Dr. Michael Myers:

That's completely true.

Dr. Michael Myers:

And to directly answer that concern,.

Dr. Michael Myers:

It is not only safe and effective, but it's also a little more economical to give certain vaccines together in a combination, according to the immunization schedules that have been established by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Dr. Michael Myers:

Just to say one thing early June this year, a very important committee called the Advisory Committee for Immunization Practices, the ACIP, was disbanded by the Secretary for Health and Human Services and reconstituted.

Dr. Michael Myers:

ACIP has an extremely important role in examining the medical and scientific evidence about vaccine use and applicability to the American public and then advises the CDC director around recommendations for how those vaccines should be used. They study meticulously all of the available science and evidence at the time the vaccine is going to be reviewed, and so when they make a recommendation, one of the things that people should realize is that that vaccine guidance has been vetted to the extreme extent. Everything has been looked at and they'll tell you. You can actually go onto their website and you can look at the evidence for yourself. You can look at all the studies, read through all the outcomes and all the concerns and look at their recommendations. And so when you look at the immunization schedule that your family members are following. That schedule is based upon these recommendations, which are based upon science and vetted by these important policymaking groups like ACIP and CDC.

Dr. Michael Koren:

Well, thanks for sharing that. And yeah, we are in a bit of uncharted waters in terms of how a non-physician autocrat I'll use that word to be polite is maybe influencing things that should be scientifically based. And that's about as political as I'm going to get right now yeah,

Dr. Michael Myers:

I hear you, I hear you.

Dr. Michael Koren:

Yeah, but anyhow, Mike, this has been a delightful, delightful conversation.

Dr. Michael Koren:

A lot of fun for me.

Dr. Michael Koren:

Yeah, learned a lot.

Dr. Michael Myers:

Mike, I want to say I am honored and I really mean that that you asked me to be part of this conversation and that we were able to reconnect this past June at our HMS class reunion. There will be more. I will be there, as I always am so this has been a delight for me and a real honor.

Dr. Michael Koren:

Yeah, it's been a lot of fun. Mike, thank you so much for being part of the MedEvidence family and we'll definitely do it again, and good luck on your very important book that's upcoming that we'll speak about as soon as it hits the newsstands or Amazon, as the case may be.

Dr. Michael Myers:

Thank you so much, Mike. I really appreciate it.

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