MedEvidence! Truth Behind the Data

Javonte Maynor is Making Sure You Are Represented in Medicine

• Dr. Erich Schramm, Javonte Maynor • Episode 366

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Javonte Maynor joins Dr. Erich Schramm to talk about Mr. Maynor's journey from Division I basketball to starting and running a clinical research site. The entrepreneur talks about his passion for clinical research, representation, and how historically low representation of minorities is a design choice which can be remedied. The duo discusses methods of increasing diversity, trust, and good patient outcomes and how those three ideas are intrinsically linked. They finish the conversation by talking about a shared interest, medical cannabis and the slow movement towards more natural medicines.

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Music: Storyblocks - Corporate Inspired

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Announcer:

Welcome to MedEvidence, where we help you navigate the truth behind medical research with unbiased, evidence-proven facts, hosted by cardiologist and top medical researcher, Dr. Michael Koren.

Dr. Erich Schramm:

Hello and welcome back to another episode of the MedEvidence Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Erich Schramm, sitting in for Dr. Koren today. I'm a board certified family physician and longtime clinical research investigator with the ENCORE Clinical Research Group. I'm very excited to be talking to Mr. Javonte Maynor today. Now, Javonte is the clinical director of operations for Renew Health Clinical Research LLC. And so, Javonte is a fellow clinical research person, so I'm very excited to be talking to him today. And one thing we'll want to talk about is the important work he's doing with his organization. I do want to take a nice little deep dive into his background because he has a very fascinating career path into being into clinical research. So Javonte, welcome to the Med Evidence Podcast.

Javonte Maynor:

Thank you all for inviting me. I'm excited to be here.

Dr. Erich Schramm:

Great. So your your clinical research path started back in college. You were a division one college NCAA basketball athlete. What was what was that experience like? And and how did that get you into clinical research?

Javonte Maynor:

So that was an amazing experience. My whole life was based on playing basketball and getting really good at it. Although, you know, my mentors and my parents pushed academics heavily. I went to a preparatory school in St. Petersburg and graduated with honors out of high school. But throughout college, I always thought about going into the medical field. So although I was playing basketball, my degree was biochemistry. So I was a biochem major at the same time. And I had the thought of you know going to play pro basketball. And then after playing pro basketball, I would enroll myself into someone's med school who would be accepting of me.

Dr. Erich Schramm:

Right.

Javonte Maynor:

But then when I got to my senior year I had a family member who was in the clinical research industry. I knew nothing about it, but I was interested. One, because it was a profession where it allowed a lot of flexibility in your schedule. And I never had a corporate job. And as an athlete, I was like dreading going into an office space and sitting in a cubicle.

Dr. Erich Schramm:

Yikes. It's purgatory.

Javonte Maynor:

Yeah, purgatory, right? So this family member of mine introduced me to it. And I came back home from California and was a coordinator at a small research site over in Decatur, Georgia. And because they were small, I could do a lot of things. You know, I could I could learn about how to recruit the patients. I learned how to get the studies, so how to go on clinicaltrials.gov. I learned how to conduct the SEVs, the SIVs. And then I also was out in the community meeting with other physicians, getting them interested in working with us within the clinical trial space. So I learned a lot, but I didn't have much money. So I was I was young and ambitious, and and I saw the CR role as a bump in pay. And I could also be involved in research at a higher level and travel and do those things. And from a CRA, I was a clinical trial manager for multiple CROs. And you know, during that time, I always had an entrepreneur mindset based on my humble beginnings as a coordinator and decided to start my own company, Renew Health, on the side throughout that journey.

Dr. Erich Schramm:

You know, and you know, I think throughout what I understand about your you've always kind of putting yourself into, you know, advancing your your knowledge, your education, a lot of drive there and taking chances, right? You have to stick your neck out. And you know, if you're you know if you're gonna expand your skill set, your options, and all that, you you've gotta, you, you, you gotta there takes courage to to be able to do that. It sounds like that's something you've continuously uh brought to whatever and you were doing, whether it was somebody you're uh college sports, early career development. But I want to touch back, go back because one of the things I know we can talk a lot more about it is you know, you know, your organization really has a passion for helping underserved and underrepresented communities, black, indigenous people of color. And so I understand that that kind of it was a form kind of formed in a time when your experiences as a college athlete where there were racial disparities and other things that you might have seen that were you felt like perhaps give you kind of this motivation or incentive to do that. Is that right?

Javonte Maynor:

Yeah, yeah. So um uh growing up in the South, it started it started out when I was in grade school. So, you know, learning about the history behind some of the medical apartheid that have happened to people of color, reading those books, it was it angered me at first. So when when I when I got to college, I said, okay, I'm gonna go into the medical field to try to make a difference, to try to be a face and someone who can get involved and understand, you know, why there are health disparities out there. Why were these medical events happening to people of color? Just so that I wasn't just getting my information from the internet. You know, I wanted to do deep research and understanding is what I'm seeing and what I'm hearing a cause of someone doing it intentionally, or is this just because of lack of knowledge? Or and I'm still on that journey, to be honest. I I still don't know the answer. And and that brought me to this point today, or getting to into research growing up, just in my family, I have a lot of family members who died early deaths from diabetes, strokes, heart attacks. My grandmother, who I love to heart, she died at 49 from a heart attack. Very healthy, you know, she was always in the yard, you know, she was very active in in the community and running a football sports league, but just dropped dead, you know, from a heart attack, and just trying to understand, you know, why why was why are those things happening across the board in those communities? And then, and then as and then in my family as well, and then as I continue to think and and understand more, it doesn't matter your income level when it comes to the medicines, like you're in research, you understand, like, okay, yeah, the medicine was approved, but no, if you dive into the data, you're like, man, like it was really no no Native Americans, really no no black people, very small numbers of Hispanics. So, you know, this drug is being sold, but we don't we don't know if it works on these people. So I came up with my own hypothesis. I'm like, well, that could be the reason why, you know, there there's no research being done, you know, on on these ethnic groups or racial groups to help them in a in a meaningful way. So that's and that's where my passion has come from early on and and as of lately, just to try to understand how we can, you know, make everyone feel feel better.

Dr. Erich Schramm:

Yeah, well, I mean, that's uh really strikes me, this kind of sense of service on your part, you know, and you could have you probably would have been a great doctor, you know. Um but but and and there's and that's but all look at where you're at now and think about the impact you can have not just on you know a few hundred or a thousand patients. You're you have uh tremendous impact over many, many thousands, tens of thousands of patients. And in clinical research is, you know, it's even more important because you we know uh when patients come in, we're like, look, you know, there there can be a lot of you know individual benefits for patients and incentive for them to come into clinical trials, but the reality is they represent 5,000 or 10,000 other people like them. So it's kind of an altruistic thing. So we have to, you know, remember our you know impact is is you know just just not just in the office, but it you know, kind of impact is beyond that. So sorry sorry, the the the the physician career path didn't uh pan out, but I you're probably much more of a hopeful.

Javonte Maynor:

There's still there's still hope out there.

Dr. Erich Schramm:

Well let me tell you, I've I've been doing clinical research for about 25 years, and I was you know doing my family practice for 20 plus years, and, I can't tell you how the degree of satisfaction, you know, if I didn't enjoy and get so much out of clinical research, I wouldn't be here, you know. I'd uh but you know, it it continues professionally, you know, it's it's the cutting edge, you know. You're like constantly, if there's a new treatment coming down the pike or a new procedure, you know, it's always hey, I'm the student. Every day I show up here as a student with something to learn. And to me, I'm like, you know, this is great. This is that I'm in the right place. So, but anyways, that's that's my my my perspective on it.

Javonte Maynor:

So that was a selling point for me because I always thought MD was like the well, it still is the holy grail of making an impact in the healthcare field. Let's someone came to me with the was like, hey, you can still make an impact, and you're learning more than some doctors at times about their therapeutic area if they're not invested in research. So that was that was something that you know made me more motivated to be in research.

Dr. Erich Schramm:

Right. And so you as I understand it, you started as as a clinical research associate and you moved up to doing bigger and and more important things, uh project directors and oversight. Are you still in that role?

Javonte Maynor:

No, no, it's uh so I'm now a full-time site owner, so between that bridge, I needed some type of income. It takes time to build a reputation with the the pharma companies to to get awarded a trial. And during that time, I was you know making some mistakes, you know, I have an SEV and wouldn't have like a thermometer here or there, you know, and uh they won't tell you why, but I knew why. But uh but over time I learned how to have a successful SEV, how to fill out a feasibility questionnaire correctly and all that. And then once I got the hang of it, I got the trials. But in between that time, I needed some type of income. So um I was doing some contract work as a CTM and CRA, and and that bridged the gap for me to go full-time in the in my site.

Dr. Erich Schramm:

Right. And that kind of a great example for people who might want to try to follow in your footsteps because you know, the challenges for thinking back when I was a new investigator, it's like, look, the you know, pharmaceutical companies, sponsors, they want people with experience. And you're like, well, how do you how do you get experience? Right? The only way so it and it takes time to build, you know, relationships with sponsors. And I I know you know all about that, but but yeah, so but then you know, you get a few studies, things you start to get a little traction, and then you know, you you you and you build a great you've got a great footprint now and with what you've created with your organization. So so I was gonna say maybe we could circle back and talk about and let's maybe talk about some of the problems now we see with the disparities in clinical research. And you know, I was looking and looking at some of the latest data that came out from the FDA and uh FDA approved studies, and it looks like I see here that the uh black representation for for the patient population on average is is just just at 3%, which is pretty, pretty terrible. You know, the the black population is 13% here, and so that's not very good. In several studies there were less than 2% representative, and you know, that's a huge gap. This isn't just a little small disparity, this is this is multifold disparity. So if people ask and say, well, what's the big deal if we don't have adequate representation, if there's not enough people of color in these studies, what what's the possible harm to that?

Javonte Maynor:

Yeah, so one, it it can go down to income as well. So you have a large percentage of the black population that don't even go to doctors, they don't see a doctor, and it could be due to uh they don't have health insurance, it could be due to mistrust of just the clinic, uh, they don't want to see a doctor. And then the other one is the doctor they're seeing isn't involved in in clinical research, so they're not getting the information they need to join. And then on the on the other end, I would say, and this could be a far reach, I could I can say employment. Not enough of African Americans or Hispanics are employed at the research centers or involved in clinical trials. What I observe back home is that most of the black women in my community in St. Petersburg, they're medical assistants, meaning they're taking care of the elderly. And I know if if those same women or men and men were in the research field as coordinators or as phlebotomists and they had jobs in research, that would be that will that would be a huge impact on that community because those workers will be able to go home. They will they will be at the health events, their cousins, their aunts, their grandmothers. They will be told about you know clinical trials that they could benefit from. And and just you know, targeting those, those different avenues, I believe, would would improve the numbers that we see. May not may not solve it. We may have to go a little bit further than that, but I think that would be a great start is targeting those areas.

Dr. Erich Schramm:

Right. Because I think historically, and you know, I think it's been the case that there's kind of that research hesitancy, maybe trying to build trust issues in those patient populations. And so, you know, in you know, in clinical research and going back to, and we'll talk to patients about Tuskegee and say, you know, for some people, you know, that you know, that that went on for you know 40 years and all this happened, and you know, and that's really left a really significant bad imprint for a lot of people. And so, you know, we have to we have to acknowledge and and you know be able to uh face up to where clinical research had failed and say, okay, well look, but here's you know, out of that we have some we've now we've got better built-in protections like institutional review boards, we've got the you know Helsinki report. So there's there's a more conscious awareness about it, but it really and I know you've talked about you know how building trust in these communities, how to talk to these patients and and how to address them.

Javonte Maynor:

Yep, yep. And also just on the on the pharma side, I think uh a lot of people feel like pharma is out for money, which they're they're for-profit organizations. So when when drugs are approved, they are trying to take care of their investors, but that is that is something that is pushed across the internet. I I even I see it myself as a uh researcher of how you know the comments, you can look at the comments on Instagram, like, yeah, they're just trying to you know make a profit, they're not trying to cure, they're not trying to solve, they just want to you know treat and make money. So if we could could get like the patient advocacy groups involved at the beginning stages of the drug development process, and then those advocacy groups go into the communities and let them know, like, hey, we're the voice behind this new treatment, we're pushing for this treatment because we know that this treatment will benefit the people, not the pharma company coming up with the idea and the strategy and then pushing it on you to then take it. I think that would solve that mistrust issue in in the early stages and at the end.

Dr. Erich Schramm:

And that's important because I think one thing that I like for clinical research is the opportunity to build relationships with patients, you know, and these people in your community. So, you know, these these days in busy physician offices, you know, you know, there's a lot of time scarcity happening. And you know, a lot of time patients see they may not even see a physician, they may see an extender, which is which is fine. But you know, it's it's there's just kind of where I see this as unfortunate for for a lot of what's happening in in clinical production medicine, but on the clinical research end, this is actually a good opportunity because you know, people, you know, if you can just sit down and hear their story, you know, and that goes a long way to just letting them know that once they know that you care about them, you know, and that just kind of lowers that a lot of that kind of hesitancy that's suspicious, they they start to be okay, yeah. So you really are looking out for me. And you know, and you really do care about me. And then in clinical trials, we as a as an investigator, I I can't go to a patient uh and say, look, I'm gonna guarantee you an outcome in this study. We don't. I just you know, I guarantee a process and say, look, you know, we're gonna, even though there may be a placebo as part of this clinical trial, I still think you're gonna get a whole lot out of this study, you know, and and I think patients just kind of need to hear that, and and that gives them a kind of reassurance about that.

Javonte Maynor:

Yeah, yeah. How we recruit patients here in the clinic, if there is a placebo involved, we always highlight that there are rescue medications and we will ensure you're safe, but we want you to be a co-investigator. We we try to get them motivated on that front and letting them know that, like, hey, the the medicine you're taking now, there was a patient just like you who was a co-investigator, and they helped you know, scientists find out if this treatment will work for you. So, what you can do for others like yourself is you know participate and co-investigate and give us your honest feedback on if this drug works or not, so that other people later down the line will not take this medicine and feel like it's not working for them. And and and it helps. Well, that's our our strategy. We we look for co-investigators and not people who are just looking for the money and or to be non-compliant, but I think now that's a great strategy for us. Yeah.

Dr. Erich Schramm:

Yeah. I'm sure we are not either one of us part of a fly by night organization. We are we are here for we're in the community and you know, we're gonna be in the future. So we have to account for our patients and take care of our patients. So I think I think that says a lot. Now, getting back to just kind of thinking about in terms of how getting more minority investigators involved, how what's your approach to that?

Javonte Maynor:

Yeah, so right now, so I recently joined an organization as outside of research, it's an entrepreneurship organization. It's called Strategic Coach. And in this organization, is is is teaching me currently, um I'm in the beginning stages on how to think at a higher level. And before I came in, when I came into the industry, I I looked at myself as like a rugged individual, meaning I want to do everything myself, like be the savior. But my approach now is I'm looking for other organizations to collaborate and partner with in order to reach the the ultimate goal of educating patients and getting more African Americans involved. So recently I participated on a panel with the Penn Foundation. Before I knew nothing about them. They've been around for years. They helped pay like billions of medical costs for patients and helped out in the research field and with HIV and AIDS. I'm hoping to partner with companies like Acclinate and BlackDoctors.org, where we're collaborating with them, we'll we'll be able to go into the communities where we serve and be able to educate patients and get them to sign up and be interested in clinical trials based on information they hear. And with these strategies and with these collaborations and partnerships, I hope to make a huge impact at a level that no one has ever imagined by getting other companies, even other sites involved to reach the ultimate goal of decreasing that health prosperity.

Dr. Erich Schramm:

No. No, I that sounds like a great strategy. And I'm sure you'll be very successful at that because you're wonderfully influential person. So I'm sure you'd be able to make that happen.

Javonte Maynor:

Thank you. Thank you.

Dr. Erich Schramm:

You know, it's interesting because since I have opportunities to attend a lot of um you know investigator meetings for the new trials, and it it isn't, you know, I don't it's um it's certainly the sponsors are looking for this kind of, you know, be able to get enough diversity, enough representation in it. But you know, they but they don't really tell you very much about how to do that, you know, and the it, you know, whether it's understanding community outreach or how like an approach. So I'd I'd love to see the sponsors of the industry just take a little bit more, put a little more effort into that, you know, and say, okay, well, you know, here are different ways that you can really try to encourage more diversity, inclusivity. So I it's it's it's been on their radar. It's just it just hasn't really translated. You know, you know, you look at these latest numbers, you well, it certainly must not be translating. So I think the industry has really does need to step up and develop you know more much more awareness about it.

Javonte Maynor:

It's it's tough because if if you don't prioritize it, then it's not going to get done. Like for me, like I go to a lot of conferences as well. Like I go to some investigator meetings, I go to therapeutic area conferences, and to be honest, I don't see many people that look like myself, like African Americans. I'll see like people from Nigeria or or from London, England, same skin color, but you know, from different countries. And I always wonder like, like, how is this so? You know, like you sometimes you go, you see the universities, and and you know, we're at the universities. Why aren't we in the research at the universities? Why, why don't, you know, we don't why don't companies, the large companies at those events say, okay, we're gonna go to like Morehouse and select 20 physicians and give them a free trip to this conference so they can learn more about research. Like and then you increase the numbers and the diversity in the conference, but you don't you don't see that because it's it's not a priority, you know. We as in in your doctor and in other sciences when when we have a clinical study, the focus is getting the patients in. Back then, now it we may be trending more towards the diversity in the trials, but I think when I first started, it was more focused on patients, patients, and not what race are they or what age are they, what sex are they, uh, what's their background. You know, the focus wasn't built into the protocol when I first started. And I and I hope in the future the protocols will be written to where you have to now. Like you have to go and and bring and bring in diversity. And then I think if we do that, we'll see better minority numbers and not only on the then the researcher side, but also on the patient side.

Dr. Erich Schramm:

Yeah, no, I I totally agree. And that the idea about really focusing on certain core groups, core areas where you could really because I'm you know, when you my experience is when I talk to any physician about clinical research, they're always interested. You know, it's it's it's uh that it's rare that I hear a physician be like, oh no, no, I'm I I don't want to that doesn't work for me. Clinical research. I'm like, you just if you if you're that way, you just don't know anything about it, you know. If you if you know a little bit about research, you're you know, so yeah, I hear exactly what you're saying on that. So, Javonte, question. What do you see kind of you see any kind of kind of your vision of things you might like to see study designs? I know you've talked in the past about like organic trials and developing more kind of organic kind of medications. Is is that something you see coming down the pipe?

Javonte Maynor:

Yeah, so when I was in college, I was going down rabbit holes and understanding the history behind pharmaceutical drugs because I was trying to figure out is what I'm hearing true? Are pharma companies corrupt? Do they just want to make us more sick to make more money? You know? And and I was in, I was actually taking organic chemistry at the time. And and I was like, the drugs that are made in the lab, they have the same stereochemistry as natural elements, like natural products uh that you can grow, like from plants. And I was like, hmm. Then I started to think about like some of the early, the early practices of medicine, you know, like ancient times and how they make their medicine. They didn't have laboratories and and those things. And I was like, I was like, man, so why do we have artificial medicine now, you know, versus you know, natural products? And my hypothesis was when you have to grow a plant, there are issues can involve, you know, you have like the black plague and famines and things like that can happen where it can shut down the whole production and people start dying because there's no no medicine. So I was like, well, that makes sense to start making it in the lab in order to treat people. So that was that was my thought. I'm not sure if if in in modern society you can have you know natural medicine like they had back then because the populations are bigger and you know things are moving at a faster rate, but that was that was my thought. But I would like to see companies, maybe smaller companies or some someone may be able to do it, grow natural products and make organic medicines in the lab.

Dr. Erich Schramm:

Yeah. Well, you know, it's interesting. So, Javonte, my other part-time gig is I'm in Florida, I'm a medical marijuana certifying physician, and I've been doing this for a long time, and I take it very seriously, and I know the science well, and we're actually looking at the possibility of having a big clinical trial utilizing, you know, one of these cannabis compounds for for low back pain. And but getting back to thinking about how you know natural medicine, unlike you know, cannabis has been around for tens of thousands of years.

Javonte Maynor:

Not to stop you, not to stop you. We actually have a study. We have a study uh with Vertanical.

Dr. Erich Schramm:

Yes, thank you. Yes, yeah, that's that's it. All right, so we're

Javonte Maynor:

 Actually, is that your study?

Dr. Erich Schramm:

Yeah, so and they had some very positive, you know, what it like a month ago, they had some really, really positive results that came out. And so, but getting to thinking about, you know, you know, in the state of Florida, they have a lot of growth infrastructure for cannabis because you get like a million people certified here. And so back to that thing about quality, you know, supply chain. I'm like, well, it can be done, you know, you just it it has to be regulated, not just for cannabis, but for anything that's gonna be in that kind of pharmaceutical, pharmaceutical grade space. So I'm like, I think we can figure this out, you know. So, but it's really interesting that you mentioned that study because we're very much looking forward to get that on board. So thank you for for bringing that up. I was like, Yeah, yeah.

Javonte Maynor:

So you're you're you're a lead investigator on that.

Dr. Erich Schramm:

Yes, yes, I am I became the cannabis expert on that.

Javonte Maynor:

That's awesome.

Dr. Erich Schramm:

I I love yeah, we could do if you know what to do more cannabis talks. I am happy to talk to you about all that all that great potential about it.

Javonte Maynor:

I mean, so from from my an observation, it seems like the younger generation are more into cannabis than like the previous generations, like my generation or or the generation before me. What are you what are your thoughts on that?

Dr. Erich Schramm:

You're you're absolutely right. Now, I'm probably a little bit older than you, so I'm not gonna lump you into my generation, but yeah, I mean our, quote, like older generation, they're they're kind of you know, their drug of choice is alcohol, you know, was that and not it's it's legal, right? 21, you're gonna get alcohol. So it was for them uh for for folks around our age, or so that's that's true. But for younger people, the young youth of today really has grown up more comfortable with cannabis. Now, I would tell you, you know, I'm I'm not trying to say, oh yeah, everybody should be doing cannabis, but you can't kill people on cannabis. There's no therapy lethal therapeutic dose for it. And I'm I'm not saying that's necessarily better than, but point is, yeah, so the youth of today, the young adults of today are much more comfortable with with cannabis. So so we'll see, you know, and they're now talk now it from a recreational versus medicinal, and this is a discussion I have a lot with patients because I'm like, look, I'm not getting you high. This is medicine. And I treat a lot of senior patients. I got uh big Medicare panel, all that, but it's it's fascinating because the older people will come and they're like, Don't get me high. I want to get high on these products. The last thing I want to get high, and I'm like, okay. Young people don't necessarily come in saying that, but you know, it's it's just a different view.

Javonte Maynor:

 Yo, their goal is to...

Dr. Erich Schramm:

so get everybody, you know, it's all potential, get everybody better, you know, healthier, you know, bring them healing. That's that's that's what I want to do for folks. But yeah, anyway, so that's that's a kind of cool topic. Maybe next time we get together we'll talk about you know what happened out of the Vertanical study and and do a little did a little piece on that. How about that?

Javonte Maynor:

Yeah, yeah. I'm I'm uh looking forward to it as well. I know it keeps getting pushed back, so it could be due to some regulatory issues, but well, I hope I hope it comes to fruition soon.

Dr. Erich Schramm:

Yeah. Hopefully. I think I think after the first of the year the FDA has to go back and but you get it's cannabis, and if I've learned anything in the cannabis space in the last several years, is there's no guarantees. You just kind of have to go with the flow and hope for the best. Javonte, any question that I didn't ask that you think I should have asked you?

Javonte Maynor:

No, I just I'm just excited for the new year with Renew Health. You know, I've I went to multiple conferences over the past few years and I saw how robust business development is within our industry. Before I was kind of relying on SMOs to bring the studies in. Thought that was a good business strategy, but uh I know that SMOs can grow you know to a large capacity and and it can get very competitive even within the SMO. So now we're we're setting off to you know create our own networks and partnerships and and try to see how we can collaborate and and do bigger things uh within this space. So I'm excited for the new year and and what's to come.

Dr. Erich Schramm:

Yeah, well, keep us updated. And like I said, anytime you want to come back, and we can yeah, let everybody know what's up, what you're doing, and you know, all your achievement. So thank you so much, Javonte. Appreciate it. And anything else coming to mind, uh let me know. We can get you back on and do another another episode.

Javonte Maynor:

All right. Thank you all for inviting me. I enjoyed it.

Dr. Erich Schramm:

Hey man, thank you so much. Take care.

Javonte Maynor:

All right, bye. Take care. Bye.

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