Losing Weight, Placebo Or Not

Derrell Thomas joins Dr. Erich Schramm to talk about his experience as a clinical trial participant. The two discuss Derrell's history growing up in a military family, his faith, sport, music background, and the need to keep a healthy weight to support his lifestyle. Dr. Schramm asks about how Derrell, who joined a weight loss study, is liking the process. Derrell talks at length about his experience, the benefits of weekly contact with medical professionals, and how much he is learning about his own medical situation with included imaging and testing. They also discuss the concept of blinding, where neither the doctor nor patient know if the patient has received an investigational medication or a placebo, and that even patients receiving a placebo tend to have good medical outcomes due to the clinical trial process alone.

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Transcript

Welcome To MedEvidence

Announcer 0:00

Welcome to MedEvidence, where we help you navigate the truth behind medical research with unbiased, evidence-proven facts, hosted by cardiologist and top medical researcher, Dr. Michael Koren.

Growing Up In A Military Home

Dr. Erich Schramm 0:11

Hello, and welcome back to another episode of the MedEvidence Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Erich Schramm. I'm a board-certified family physician and longtime clinical research investigator. I'm a certified principal investigator with the ENCORE Clinical Research Group. And I'm very excited to be sitting across the table talking to Mr. Derrell Thomas. Now, Mr. Thomas and I have had an opportunity to get to know each other over the last several months. He's a patient with the clinical research studies. And as I've got to talk to him and get to know him better, he has quite an interesting background and he's a very interesting person to talk to. And so the thought came to say, hey, Mr. Thomas, would you mind coming on to be a guest on our podcast? And he was gracious enough to accept. So, Derrell, thank you so much for being here. Perhaps you could tell our audience, tell us a little bit about yourself, your background, some of you know where you grew up, what kind of experiences you've had.

Derrell Thomas 1:05

Yeah, I um thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. Uh it's an honor to be here. I grew up in Daytona Beach, Florida, about an hour south of here. You know, my parents, I had some strict parents, you know. My dad was in the military, and so I'm the oldest of three boys. And so just growing up in that being, I had to set an example, you know, to my younger brothers. But it was always sometimes where, you know, if if something would go wrong with the with the with my brothers, younger ones, I'm the one they look to. You're supposed to set an example for the young ones. So I'm getting in trouble and I'm like, what did I do? I didn't do anything wrong. And then it's almost like it's almost like being at a job. You're you're a CEO. So if the supervisor something happens, you know, they're gonna look at the supervisor, and then now the supervisor's gonna look at the employees. So it's like trickling down. So, you know, but yeah, so uh it was, you know, it was it was fun growing up just trying to be that role model, right? You know, for my brothers and things like that.

Dr. Erich Schramm 2:03

And this was good life training for you, right?

Derrell Thomas 2:05

Yes, I learned a lot.

Dr. Erich Schramm 2:07

Right. Well, great. So you were you had uh the opportunity as an older brother to to show the your your younger siblings the way. What other kind of experiences have you had?

Derrell Thomas 2:18

Well, I had a lot of experiences getting in trouble because yeah, blame it on him. Yeah, I did it, okay, you know, but but yeah, uh just being being there and trying to uh teach them and show them, you know, things about life, you know, being the oldest and things what to do, what not to do, and basically what my parents taught me, and then how to talk the how them to get them to talk, you know, to be with respect to you know the older people and things like that. And so I learned a lot, you know, as as I was doing that, you know, teaching them, you know, I was learning myself. And so it was a great ex it was a great experience.

Dr. Erich Schramm 2:53

So you grew up in a military house. Did that entail, you know, uh you know, being disciplined, um everything being kind of done a certain way, is that right?

Derrell Thomas 3:03

Oh yeah, yeah. We had to be in the house before the street lights come on. You know, be in the house, you know, my dad would make a little noise, and we know what that noise meant, and you know, be in the house before the street lights come on. I'm looking around, I say, uh, we got about 10 minutes left, so we gotta be in the house, guys. Come on. So, but but we hadn't really had fun, you know, as kids growing up, and you know, by by me being the oldest, like I said, showing them and things like that, and we played a lot of games with the kid neighborhood kids, and you know, all three of us, we were we played little league baseball, all three of us, and growing up and then we had had a lot of fun, you know.

Trading Baseball For Music

Dr. Erich Schramm 3:38

Wow. Did you go on and do go off to school and and do any sports or pursue any interests that way?

Derrell Thomas 3:46

Well, I went when I was in actually when I was in high school, when I got to high school, after, you know, graduating, you know, middle uh middle school, what they call it middle school now, but it was junior high back then. And so being in high school, you know, I wanted to play sports, I wanted to play baseball in high school, but kind of had a little turn because music started to catch my you know, piqued my interest. You know, it's piqued my interest because listening to the radio all the time and then hearing all the instruments and then hearing everything, and then being in the band, so I got a chance to join the the high school choir and then also the high school band, you know. So I was my parents sang too. So I was like, oh, okay. I guess I put the baseball in the glove down for a minute and then go ahead and see how this is gonna work out, you know. So, but I kept, you know, kept at it, you know, working at it and just being there and then just having having fun and meeting people and you know, also learning so much as far as like the music's concerned. So it really piqued my interest and I just really stuck with it. And I, you know, I want to learn more. I was so eager to learn more and more and more and just ask questions, you know, and things like that. Well, what does this do? What does this do? You know, and so it was it was a great experience just growing up and um seeing those things.

Faith And Service In Community

Dr. Erich Schramm 5:04

Wow. So the music opened up some doors for you.

Derrell Thomas 5:07

Yes, yes. It I just really like being part of the community, doing things in the community. We have an event actually tomorrow at Juliet Park, where I'll be ministering tomorrow there, and just being out there and giving food away and things like that. And you know, we have a church out there that's gonna be doing that, and so just kind of giving back to the community and going into the you know the areas and and and loving on people and just showing the love of Christ, you know, to people.

Dr. Erich Schramm 5:34

Well, that's wonderful. So kind of developing in that kind of community of faith, was that just something that has had been there all along for you or or came about kind of later as you got older?

Derrell Thomas 5:46

Well, growing up, I grew up in church. My dad's a pastor, so growing up in that lifestyle, you know, after being in church every Sunday, Sunday school and things like that, and just you know, see my mom and everything. And my mom was a Sunday school teacher. So, you know, we had to be there to Sunday school on time at 9:30. So, but learning that and then, you know, just getting, you know, having friends and stuff like that at the church, and you know, watching my dad preach every Sunday, and then my grandfather as well. And so just learning all of that growing up, and it was it was it was an amazing, amazing experience growing up and seeing that. And so now to be able to kind of piggyback on that and kind of learn some some you know things from that and but kind of create my own journey,

Dr. Erich Schramm 6:29

Right.

Derrell Thomas 6:30

You know, my own journey and my own road and and go in that and in that direction. But you know, I've built a lot of relationships with people along the way, and people to help help me. And that's one thing that you really would like to do, you know, if you're whatever career that you're in, you know, met whether where it's a medical field, such as yourself and other uh careers, you want to be able to build relationships with people, you know, because you never know who can help you get to that next level. So it was it was amazing.

Dr. Erich Schramm 6:59

Right. Well, you know, it's it's so so interesting, you know. So you really had this sense of you know community service right from the get-go.

Derrell Thomas 7:08

Yeah.

Dr. Erich Schramm 7:09

It was it was always instilled uh as part of you in this in this wonderful giving family that you had. And really, so and how you and really are importantly expressing it through your music. Yeah. So what's what's that been like? How do you how do you see how that affects in terms of how you help patients and I'm sorry, how you help your community? And we'll talk about patients in a little bit, but um, how that has touched people in your community and and what that results.

Derrell Thomas 7:38

Well, I think it's from my experiences, what I've uh experienced over the time, you know, and being able to see things and uh learn so much through my journey, it, you know, it wasn't it wasn't easy, you know, but being able to experience a lot of things, and I was just so, you know, gravitated by this and gravitated by that, and I was just like, wow, you know, so but just the experiences and and learning as I grow.

Dr. Erich Schramm 8:03

Right.

Derrell Thomas 8:03

You know, and so it was it was it was amazing. It was amazing, and seeing the seeing the after effects of the people, you know, and and seeing that it was like wow, man, this is something else. I like this, you know.

Dr. Erich Schramm 8:16

So it sounds like so you're having experiencing great personal growth,

Derrell Thomas 8:20

Yes

Choosing A Weight Loss Clinical Trial

Dr. Erich Schramm 8:20

Spiritual growth, right, professional growth. It's so all of this really and and being able to help to convey that to others, right? And that kind of spirit, that kind of giving and service spirit to others. Yes. Well, let's talk about being a patient in a clinical research study. How about that?

Derrell Thomas 8:38

There you go, yes, yes, let's do it.

Dr. Erich Schramm 8:39

So, so how did you come about to be a patient in a clinical research study?

Derrell Thomas 8:43

Well, it's funny you asked that question because my wife and I we were sitting home one day and she was, I guess she was scrolling through on her phone and seeing it said Jacksonville clinical research on her phone, and she was, you know, did some research on it, looked it up and everything. And she's like, hmm. She said, honey, what do you think about trying to get into you know the research? And I'm pretty sure they have different programs that we can try out. And we've seen one that piqued our interest, which was the uh weight loss, and which is was which is really helpful, has been really, I mean, helpful to me and my wife. And and so we did some, we did some digging, made some phone calls and things like that, and and talked to some people, the recruiter, and they got our information and things like that. And we begin this journey, you know, begin this this weight loss journey, and it's been nothing but amazing.

Dr. Erich Schramm 9:31

Wow. So you'd had tried other things for weight loss up to that point and and

Derrell Thomas 9:36

-yeah, yeah. I mean, just regularly, you know, just exercise and things like that. But I say, you know, I say maybe it's something that let's try something different, you know, just get out of the box.

Dr. Erich Schramm 9:47

Right.

Derrell Thomas 9:47

You know, step out of the box and really just go out and just check it out and see what you think. And because, you know, like me, you know, taking uh blood pressure pills and then trying to, you know, lose weight and things like that. And I say, well, hey, let's let's do it. And so we talked to the recruiter and here we are.

Dr. Erich Schramm 10:05

You're like, why not? Right?

Derrell Thomas 10:06

Yeah.

Dr. Erich Schramm 10:07

Hey, let's try it. Okay, so you found yourself enrolled in a clinical research study. How about that?

Derrell Thomas 10:12

Yeah

Dr. Erich Schramm 10:12

Okay, and so maybe you could tell us a little bit about you know some of the some of the positive things maybe that you've noticed and some of those experienced.

Derrell Thomas 10:21

I've seen a significant drop in weight. I mean, major. I started when I started this journey, I could you not, I was at 240, 240 pounds. And so being on this on this weight loss journey now, I'm down on 218.

Dr. Erich Schramm 10:38

Wow. Nice.

Derrell Thomas 10:39

So that's a major drop. And then not only that, you know, just just seeing the people's faces when I come here every week and such as yourself.

Dr. Erich Schramm 10:47

Right, that's right. Yeah, no. I'm looking forward to seeing doctors, you know, just sitting here laughing and how are you doing on your diet? Yeah, you get some exercise.

Derrell Thomas 10:56

Yeah, yeah. My nutritionist actually, she called me yesterday. She came yesterday for yesterday, sorry. And uh, we talked and everything, and you know, it was a great conversation, and so she's encouraging me and things like that. And then I come here on Fridays, I'm like, you know, the best day of the week. I'm like, hey, I get to see my people today, you know what I'm saying?

Placebo Blinding And Safety Checks

Dr. Erich Schramm 11:12

So that'd give you our pleasure to to take care of as a patient, so it's reciprocated. Now, and uh to be clear, now in the study that you're in, there's at least a possibility that you could be on a placebo, right? So, you know, in this particular study, one in four patients may be actually getting a placebo, and you don't know, and I don't know because the study is blinded.

Derrell Thomas 11:35

Right.

Dr. Erich Schramm 11:35

And you know, I think a lot of people are when they're considering research, are at least a little bit hesitant if there's a placebo arm and say, Well, look, I don't I don't want to get the placebo, I want to get the real stuff. But you know, and I've done a lot of clinical research studies and and weight loss, and to know that even people in the placebo arms can and do lose weight. So I'm I'm I'm not going to assume that I know which group of you know, which patient group you're in to get study medicine or not. But I think it seems to be true that you're the way that you're describing this relationship here with with the staff, and you're getting you know reinforcement through a nutritionist, which is huge, right? Because it isn't just like, hey, you come in, you get a shot, or you get a pill, and you know, we'll see you later.

Derrell Thomas 12:26

It's a lot more. Yeah, it's a lot more than that.

Dr. Erich Schramm 12:29

Right. And we do, and you know, it's uh to also emphasize that a lot of the safety aspects of being in a clinical trial, because you come in, you get labs and EKGs and physical exams. And you know, if there's something along the way that I see as a point at which I think you know we need to discuss a plan of action, obviously, you know, then we're gonna be having that discussion. Or when you have concerns,

Derrell Thomas 12:55

yeah.

Dr. Erich Schramm 12:55

That you're communicating with us and you're very good at communicating. So it is it, you know, we developed this, I think, a very good relationship.

Derrell Thomas 13:02

Yes, yes.

Dr. Erich Schramm 13:02

Initially, I think when the when we were doing the study and uh we understood that patients would come in that have to come in every week, uh some of us were like, wow, that that could be you know potentially an imposition to patients, but that doesn't sound at all to be the case. Is that right?

Derrell Thomas 13:18

Yeah, yeah. You know, I like I said, I always look forward to coming, you know, on here and then seeing seeing my buddy up front, you know, seeing her. And uh she like the other day, she was like, Oh God, you're here every you're here every week. I see you all the time. What's going on? I say, Yeah, well, you know, I'm here today. So, you know, you don't like me anymore. You know, just kind of cracking little jokes and making people laugh and things like that. But it's it's it's it's a it's a great, like I said, it's a great experience overall, and I'm just glad that I'm a part of it.

Dr. Erich Schramm 13:47

Yeah, we're grateful for you. Because remember, you know, you're of course uh doing this for yourself, but also they're they take and extrapolate this information from you over thousands of patients. So you're not just doing it for you, you're doing it for thousands of similar patients out there, right?

Derrell Thomas 14:02

Of course.

Dr. Erich Schramm 14:03

This is so that and you know, this goes back and I'm sure resonates that with that kind of altruism and service that you know that you've had your whole life.

Derrell Thomas 14:12

Yeah, it's just you know, I just wanted to be able to say, hey, if if if I can if I can do it, you can do it. You know, you know, never sell yourself short on anything, you know. You know, it's your it's your life, it's your you know, if you're struggling with, you know, in this area, let's do something about it. You know, let's do something about it.

Dr. Erich Schramm 14:32

Well, you've you've always had very positive out attitude as I talked to you. Yeah. Any any cons to being in a clinical study?

Derrell Thomas 14:40

I mean, I've had, you know, just a just a little bit, but it kind of goes away like, you know, the next day and stuff like that.

Dr. Erich Schramm 14:47

Like a side effect or something.

Derrell Thomas 14:49

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Erich Schramm 14:50

after a after a dose?

Derrell Thomas 14:52

Yeah, like if they, you know, I mean, I'm pretty sure they, you know, they would tell me whatever, you might have, you know, little stomach comfort or this or that or whatever, but you know, after that, it goes away. And um I'm just like, okay, sure.

Dr. Erich Schramm 15:04

Right. And of course I could tell you that could be a placebo.

Derrell Thomas 15:07

Yeah.

Dr. Erich Schramm 15:07

Right?

Derrell Thomas 15:08

Could be. We never know.

Dr. Erich Schramm 15:08

Because I'm I'm blinded, you're blinded.

Derrell Thomas 15:10

Yeah.

Sharing Research With Friends

Dr. Erich Schramm 15:11

But that's the point. When if things come up in a clinical trial, you know, we have an opportunity to talk to talk about it. So, you know, we have the flexibility to make decisions about dosing or or doing testing or evaluation. So well, that's terrific. So and talk a little bit, because I, you know, you've you're you you got a gig coming up tomorrow.

Derrell Thomas 15:32

Yeah. Oh yeah, excited about it. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Dr. Erich Schramm 15:34

I love that's great. Do you do you use that as an opportunity? Well, maybe not at your gig, but do you find yourself, you know, advocating for, you know, doing clinical research for people in your community?

Derrell Thomas 15:47

Yeah, I mean, actually, I it really helps because when you're out there, you know, singing and performing or whatever, you know, a lot of times, you know, it takes toll on your body sometimes. You know, like people, you want to be able to be in shape. You know, you want to be able to be in shape and have that stamina being on that stage for, you know, like major artists, they're on the stage for 45 minutes to an hour or so, you know, jumping around, running here and there, and you know, and so, but you want to be able to have the energy, you know, to be able to do what you do because you get some people, you know, they're out of shape, they get up on that stage and they're already breathing and huffing and puffing already, you know, and so but I look at I look at it as something that's really beneficial, you know, health-wise, you know, to be able to have this study and then feel good about yourself.

Dr. Erich Schramm 16:39

Right.

Derrell Thomas 16:40

You know, because a lot of people, I've a lot of people have told me, they look at me like, you are you losing weight?

Dr. Erich Schramm 16:47

You're different, right?

Derrell Thomas 16:47

You look ...

Dr. Erich Schramm 16:48

What you got going on there?

Derrell Thomas 16:49

Yeah, exactly. You look you you look different. What's going on, especially around your neck area and the things you you you're getting skinny. What's going on? I say, well, if you have a minute, I can sit down and tell you all about it.

Dr. Erich Schramm 17:03

Oh, that's great.

Derrell Thomas 17:05

You know, so but that's a good avenue to be able to, you know, navigate through to be able to share with them about my experience.

Dr. Erich Schramm 17:14

Right.

Derrell Thomas 17:14

And then maybe, you know, like I had a friend of mine that came up and I told him about it. Actually, I told him about it before he came, and he was going to talk to the recruiter and things like that. And so just trying to help others, you know. Somebody gave me a lifeline a while back, and now I want to be the one to give them a lifeline. You know what I mean? When they feel like all feel like, you know, all is gone. They have nothing else left to to be able to do in, you know, with life, and they're not, you know, they need that encouragement, you know, they need someone, you know, we always need that one person to really to just to encourage them and say, hey, you can do this. I believe in you. If if people in this world today will hear the like the they like to hear those, they like to hear things like that, and people like to hear that. And so I say just to be be mindful and mentally ready if it's if this is something that you want to do. And me as being having the experience in this study and in this weight loss thing, if like I said, if I can do it, you can do it as well because I want to see you win health-wise. You know, you may be taking a whole bunch of medications right now, but when you start dropping that weight, a medication is gonna go away sooner or later. And that's and that's gonna be very beneficial to you health-wise. You know, and then you'll be able to do what you you know like to do on your normal day, you know, in your life, you know, whether it's you know, going out and jogging, this and that, things like that, going out with family vacation and or like me, performing on stage and you know, jumping around and doing this and doing that or whatever, you know, it helps. You know, and so but I want to be able to give that person a lifeline because I had one given to me a while back when I didn't feel like I didn't have anything left.

A Lifeline Mindset And Closing

Dr. Erich Schramm 19:15

That's such a powerful and profound message, and so I'm so grateful that you have taken the time and be able to share that with others. I had asked you earlier about the possibility that you would actually write a song about clinical research, right?

Derrell Thomas 19:32

Clinical research is a place to be. Clinical research, you get your needle and it set you free. See?

Dr. Erich Schramm 19:40

Oh my god. See, I couldn't do that, right? They they specifically asked me not to sing, so I again very, very much appreciate uh all that you've done for us.

Derrell Thomas 19:50

Yeah, no problem.

Dr. Erich Schramm 19:51

So, Mr. Thomas, at the end of this uh podcast interview, is there any question that I didn't ask that you thought thought that I should?

Derrell Thomas 20:00

No, I think you covered just about everything. I mean, I see you all the time, so you know, we have our conversations, you know, we talk, we laugh, and I think this uh I think that's great, you know, like I said, it's a great experience in being here. And I try to share it, you know, with other people, you know, even on social media. You know, because you never know who wants to be part of, you know, the study. And I see a lot of, you know, we watch this show 600 pound life or whatever you want to call it. You know what I mean? Right. And I see what people, I see, you know, the show, my wife and I would watch it sometimes and see what they go through, you know, and things like that. And I'm just like, I thank God that, you know, not head wasn't heading it in that direction, you know, I'm going the opposite way, you know, the good way so I can be able to, you know, be health-wise enough, because I'm gonna be able to see my my grandchildren grow up. Yeah, you know, yeah you know, I want to be able to, you know, have a long-lasting life, you know, still ministering the gospel through music and being able to share with the world with the world because the way things are going right now, the world needs they need love.

Dr. Erich Schramm 21:10

That's right. Well, that is that is a beautiful high note to to to leave on. Thank you so much. And maybe there'll be a future podcast uh to make sure we keep this uh good flow going.

Derrell Thomas 21:23

Let's do it.

Dr. Erich Schramm 21:24

All right. Thank you so much again.

Derrell Thomas 21:25

Thank you so much.

Announcer 21:26

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