The Outdoor Gibbon
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The Outdoor Gibbon
7. Lee Perryman, first deer and roe buck stalk
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***Remastered this is fresh update to the Outdoor Gibbon Podcast ***
What happens when an expert airgun shooter faces the challenge of his first deer stalk? Lee Perryman, pro staff for Harkila and Pulsar, travels eight hours from England to the rugged Scottish Highlands seeking not an easy trophy, but a genuine challenge.
"I want something that's a challenge," Lee told host Peter before arriving. And challenging it was—navigating the treacherous terrain of clear-fell forestry, crawling through thick undergrowth, and confronting the emotional weight of taking a larger animal for the first time. This episode captures the raw, unfiltered experience of crossing that threshold from small game to deer stalking.
The conversation takes us through every aspect of Lee's journey: from test-firing unfamiliar rifles on quad sticks to the heart-pounding moment when a perfect roe buck presented itself at 158 yards. You'll feel the tension as Lee steadies himself for the shot, the mixed emotions after the successful harvest, and his thoughtful reflections on the difference between taking a squirrel and a deer. As he admits, "On the drive up here I was thinking about it, and the thought was lingering in my head if I could even pull the trigger."
Beyond the stalk itself, we dive deep into the gear that works across hunting disciplines, the importance of proper field craft, and the complete field-to-freezer process. Unlike many commercial stalks where clients are spared the details, Lee experiences it all—tracking the blood trail, field dressing the buck, and learning to properly butcher his harvest. The discovery of the buck's broken tine and chipped teeth adds another dimension to the story, suggesting this was an animal that may not have survived the coming winter.
Whether you're contemplating your first deer stalk or simply curious about the emotional and practical aspects of transitioning to larger game, this episode offers authentic insights rarely captured in hunting media. Listen in as two passionate outdoorsmen discuss not just the how, but the why of ethical, challenging field sports.
What will your first deer stalk be like? Or if you've already crossed that threshold, how did your experience compare to Lee's? Join the conversation on our social media channels and share your thoughts.
Hello and welcome to the Outdoor Gibbon podcast, episode 7. Podcast with Lee Perryman who came to visit for his first stalk to Aberdeen. You will see that Lee's obviously got a presence on social media and we'll crack on with that podcast. Bit of an update. It was supposed to be a podcast with Empire Cartridges update. It was supposed to be a podcast with empire cartridges. However, due to technical difficulties and just timings, we will bring you that podcast later on. I'll apologize now for the sound quality.
Speaker 2:We did record this in a gatehouse that lee was staying at a very echoey kitchen so there might be some funny noises that come back and a few bumps and bashes on the table and things like that. But obviously we've just come back in from stalking, butchering a deer and all the rest of it. So, uh, yeah, probably a bit tired by the time we were doing this podcast. Hello, so we have another podcast here today and we have lee perriman.
Speaker 2:Most of you will know him from instagram being the airgun shooter face of harkila and pro staff for pulsar. So where are we at the moment? Well, he's traveled all the way up to scotland and we are currently sat in a wonderful gatehouse. Uh, just outside the town of tariff. The estate dates back to 1346 and we're here just to record, uh, this podcast regarding, obviously, lee's first deer stalk and a bit of history about him. So I'll pass you over to Lee now, who's going to sort of give us a bit of an insight as to how he got into shooting, and we'll see where this podcast goes from there hi, peter.
Speaker 3:Thank you for the introduction. Yeah, I've been a shooting air guns now for 24 years. I don't really know how I got into it. I just one day fancied to get an air rifle, you know. So for my first air rifle was a fjordman rapid 7 okay, yeah, yeah uh, obviously one of the best at the time, but I just started a new job so I just fancied something nice, so I went for that and I can actually remember uh snapping the magazine right on my first load wow, okay.
Speaker 2:So yeah, because the rapids were. Obviously they were sort of a bit of a. They started off being a bit of a rough and ready um air gun, weren't they? They were sort of manufactured, knocked together and everybody liked to customize them yeah, uh yeah, they're just're just complete workhorses in the field.
Speaker 3:They don't let you down and very good rifles, so things just spiraled from there. I didn't really take to social media for well a couple of years ago. I used to shoot for day state for eight years, so I used to send my photos directly to them. I never really posted anything on social media, but when the lockdown came I thought you know, maybe I just start an account, put a few things on there and see what happened yeah, because you seem to have a fair following and it's obviously it's growing pretty well yeah, well, I write Airgun Shooting Magazine but I'm not actually on board with them, so I just write what I want and the products I want to review.
Speaker 3:So I just give honest reviews.
Speaker 2:I think that's one of those things nowadays, isn't it? We were discussing it, I think, when we were out in the field about honest reviews of kit and stuff like that. I think when we're out in the field about honest reviews of kit and stuff like that, and sometimes you find that kit potentially is is reviewed because somebody has been given it free and they're just they want to write a good review because they feel sort of embarrassed not to yeah, obviously.
Speaker 3:Well, this weekend has taught us a valuable lesson. You know, we've had the right kit to go out and do what we've done. So if you, uh, if you just take something for the sake of taking it, because it's free, but it doesn't actually work and it's not going to do what you need it to do, it's a waste of time, uh, showing it to people, you know so we'll just set the scene.
Speaker 2:So obviously. Um, I was talking to some of the hikela staff at the schoon Game Fair and a discussion came up about deer stalking and I put out an invitation and one of the chaps, phil, had basically said oh, my friend Lee wants to really go stalking. So I sent Lee an invitation to come up to Aberdeenshire and potentially get his first deer. His comment to me, his exact words to me, were I want something, that's a challenge.
Speaker 3:So this weekend we made it a challenge, I believe yeah, definitely, uh, uh, to be honest, in the past I've been offered a few days, but you know I had the kind of inkling that they were like farm park days right which I'm so, so grateful for the offers. But for my first year I wanted to work for it.
Speaker 2:Well, I think I think we worked for it. Obviously, as I said to you, clear fell is is something that's uh, is pretty tricky to work across. So, yeah, it was. It was certainly a an experience. I think we'll um, we'll come on to that later on in the podcast and discuss that. But you obviously test a lot of kit and and everybody who watches your social media profile sees you shoot a lot of squirrels and rabbits um, how do you think that your kit, compared to somebody like me who's obviously deer stalker, do you think the harkila kit or the, the pulsar kit, has the same place in the ego market as it does for the, the deer stalking market?
Speaker 3:yeah, I think, uh, obviously, uh up where we are now in scotland, the conditions are a lot harsher than what we have back home, but we're still going out into into the same field, into the same forest, into the same rain, into the same mud. So well, unless you're a sofa shooter what we been talking about you need good kit in the field.
Speaker 2:No, absolutely, yeah, absolutely, and you find something, I think, that actually just works, don't you? You find a piece of kit you trust in, and then you kind of stick with it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, definitely, I definitely agree with that, you know, and what I'm using at the moment is just absolutely perfect for my needs.
Speaker 2:Excellent. That's good to know. So obviously, obviously yeah, because you you've been out and you've had different bits of kit on test and showing me different things that you've been using throughout the week. What do you think the sort of the, the, the best piece of clothing you've got in in that lineup really is at the moment?
Speaker 3:oh, that's a tricky one.
Speaker 2:The best piece of clothing yeah, the best piece your go-to.
Speaker 3:Let's just say I'm actually I really like my Hardkiller, ragnar trousers at the moment. Okay, I think they're just comfy, silent, and they're a nice garment, you know.
Speaker 2:So are they a lightweight summer trouser? Are they a winter trouser? Are they sort of a thicker material?
Speaker 3:uh, we'll go, for they're more of a summer, uh, summer wear okay and I've got the scandinavian look about them as well which I kind of like okay, yeah, yeah, no, that's obviously.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you've seen me. It's mostly the old pro hunter trousers purely. They're a thick, old trouser and things like that. They're used and abused, um, and that's, that's what works. As I said, we've already discussed that. We find a piece of kit that works for us and we don't change it. So, let's, let's talk about why you're here really. So, yeah, we will go in deer stalking, um. So lee arrived and the first thing I wanted to do was to get him out to have a go with the different types of rifle, and he had a choice he could either shoot a 223, which in scotland is a deer legal caliber it's not a deer legal caliber, uh, in england, but well, it is a deer legal caliber, but it's not legal for row in england. So it's legal to take a road deer in scotland with a 223. But also I gave him the opportunity to shoot the old trusty 308. So we met up and we basically set some targets up and we let him have a go. So, yeah, how did you get on with that?
Speaker 3:well, I've never met you before. Peter, when you post a lot on social media, you know you kind of like saying you can like shoot a little bit. You're putting all these photos out, that you're out and you're doing this. You've driven eight hours up to Scotland. You stood in a very windy field shooting off quad sticks, what you don't shoot of Shooting a gun, what you've never shot before shooting next to a friend you've never shot next to before. So you know the odds are kind of like stacking up against you, but uh, yeah, no, I love shooting a gun. I think we were bang on yeah, so.
Speaker 2:So we set, we set two targets out for lee. We, first of all, we set him out a zero in target, uh, just about 100 yards down the field. And then we set one of my classic that everybody will have seen if they they followed my social media feed is my uh black, uh hardwood or or timber, uh deer silhouettes. So it kind of gives you the feeling of you've got this black target to actually try and find the name point on. So yeah, as Lee was saying, we I think he normally shoots off primrose trigger sticks, which were my go-to. But I was given a set of quad sticks to to play with and I thought, well, if I've got guests up, they're all going to shoot off these quad sticks. So we threw them straight in at the deep end quad sticks and the 223 and said, uh, hit that target please, yeah yeah, quad sticks.
Speaker 3:I've been out with, uh, phil taylor before and we've shot off the quad sticks and I don't know. They're not really my thing but it's probably because I don't use them that much. Like you said, we go to the primos and I use my Spartan ascent, but obviously, uh, when in Rome absolutely you've got it.
Speaker 2:You. You basically do what the stalker gives you at the end of the day, um so, yeah, well, let's just talk about that. So we set Lee up and, yeah, no problem at all. A bit, a bit of bit of faffing to get the sticks set up, but once he was on them, I think it was a stable shooting platform. And, yeah, ask them to take a shot.
Speaker 3:And yeah you carry on it's yeah, no, uh, I think we had what three shots with the 223 and three shots with the 308, uh, two on each on the quad sticks and one on each on the primos. And you know, I wanted to revert back to the pre-moss, but I'm going to say now that peter's pre-moss is heavily worn and was shaking like a dog yeah, no, we, we were discussing this that.
Speaker 2:I showed him at the start that I've got a set of pre-moss sticks and they've had some use. They really have and the the headstock on them is there's probably a good five mil of play and and it's like a it rattles around and you set the sticks that, you set the rifle up on it and they're rocking backwards and forwards quite happily yeah.
Speaker 3:So rather, being at being at sea, I thought I'd go for something state more stable, so I chose the quad sticks, which you know worked, worked fine for me yeah, it was a good test actually, because shooting on the clear fell I I've always been skeptical that these, these sticks would work.
Speaker 2:Um, so our first morning out we met, met up and we went up to a forestry block. That's, that's kind of. It was clear, fell probably two or three years ago, so the white grass has grown up the covers high. Lee's first comment as we got out the car was don't worry about the sticks, I'll just chuck my bag down and I can shoot off that. And I looked out the window and said to him you see the grass in front of us. That's the height of the cover, pretty much all the way through yeah, I definitely agree with that.
Speaker 2:But I think my second comment, peter, was uh, I'm glad we're wearing 12 inch harkiller boots yeah, there was that as well, because, obviously, um, we decided to, uh, to trek across a fairly sketchy uh track that a digger had been through with, um, with water coming up through the reeds, quite happily, yeah, I mean you know this uh, wild grass is just covering it, so it looks perfectly flat, but in reality, you know, you stop stepping in holes.
Speaker 3:So that was a totally different terrain for me as well yeah, so so the the story started off.
Speaker 2:We, we left the vehicle, got, got lee set up. He had the rifle. I'll carry the sticks. If we anything, the plan was I'd pop the sticks out. He would place the rifle on them and take the shot. We walked in and we spotted deer straight away. Unfortunately, these deer are on a field that we don't have permission on, and I said to Lee as soon as I'd seen one. I said we'll probably count a number more and I think we, we. What was the total in in the end?
Speaker 3:I think it was uh seven, wasn't it? Was it seven?
Speaker 2:I think we got to seven deer and a fantastic buck, but unfortunately, as I said, one at the distance they were away, I think, uh range finding them. They were 400 and something odd, yeah, but also they weren't actually on our land, so it was a bit of a shame. So we carried on the morning, we trudged around the, the clear fell, looking for things, uh, and eventually we picked our way across this obviously fairly boggy part and got ourselves onto a onto into a good position yeah, no, uh, yeah, because we got on the uh ride and it was a little harder, wasn't it?
Speaker 2:that's right, yeah, so, uh, that was uh a lot easier so yeah, as we got over there, we, um, we, we sort of bumped that, that dough and then, uh, something fantastic sort of appeared in front of us yeah, we were.
Speaker 3:We were just walking down the ride and to our right, we see two youngsters and they were just sitting there. So we just, uh, stopped back for a while and to see what was going to happen, and then they came out onto the ride in front of us.
Speaker 2:So, obviously, uh, being youngsters, we just observed them, I got my camera out to record them and, unfortunately fortunately I never even press record on magical moments but, spur of the moment, literally you could strike these two, uh, two yearlings and, uh, I've got this camera next to me thinking, oh, he's getting all of this on, on, on, recorded. And um, after they disappeared and disappeared back into the into the undergrowth and headed off up the field to find mum, there was a comment of like, oh, that didn't record, which was a bit of a shame really, because it was a real magical moment.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was really nice to see you know.
Speaker 2:So we kind of concluded the morning at that point and we went and got some lunch because obviously by that time it was coming up for a midday. I said to Leigh, we're going to just nip into another bit of forestry. It's another clear fell. It fell down in Storm Arwen. They've just finished harvesting and getting all the timber out, so drove round big timber stacks. We're driving up the track and I think it it was. I can't remember who spotted it, but to our left there was a, a fantastic buck in probably about 100 yards down in the clear fell yeah, he was, uh, absolutely gorgeous, wasn't he?
Speaker 3:and we stopped the truck. We see him, he see hers.
Speaker 2:So then, uh, peter rolled the truck back behind a log pile and we slowly made a way out to the truck, wrapped to the log pile and around it, but unfortunately gone I think, yeah, I think, as as we rolled back and disappeared and spent a few minutes sort of trying to get rifles and kit sorted out, he'd made his descent back to the tree line, unfortunately. Yeah, so the decision I said to Lee after that it changed all the plans because obviously this clear fell had been fairly disrupted and we haven't seen many deer on it. But to see him up there it was like right, well, we'll make plans differently for that evening and we'll take it from there. So, yeah, I'll kind of let lee tell the story from that point on yeah.
Speaker 3:So, uh, peter picked me up later in the afternoon and, uh, made a way back to that same commission, parked up, had a chat about things, discussed what we were going to do, had a safety check, and then I started the stalk. I think I was concentrating on something else at the time, but Peter spotted the same book in the middle of the clear fell, so we both dropped to our knees. This is about 40 yards out from the edge of the clear fell. So then, rather than just to walk into it, we crawled on our stomachs for about 40 yards to the edge of a clear fell. I managed to get a really nice stump so I could get on the bipod. And there he was, still in the middle. We had the wind. Uh, wind was right in our favor yeah, the wind was absolutely fantastic.
Speaker 2:You couldn't have asked for almost. It was almost two stroll, but it was. It was enough to disguise any noises or communication perfectly and there was no way in any way we were going to send this and continually spotting that buck for lee.
Speaker 3:He had no idea there was anybody there no, it was a just a perfect scenario how it's playing out. You know, at some points I thought, you know, it can't really be this good, something was gonna happen it was almost like, yeah, as a friend sent us a message after we'd be taking the buck.
Speaker 2:Um, it's like a good job. I tied that to a stick for you, wasn't it? So it stayed there. But yeah, you couldn't have asked better. Broadside, the buck kept looking down the hillside. It wasn't moving. He was quite happily just browsing away. Um, lee seemed to be quite stable. A couple of asking checks every time. Are you able to take the shot, can you see? Unfortunately, my position was probably about a foot lower than lee and all I kept seeing was sort of a few twigs obscuring this, this buck. But where lee was up with the rifle, um, it's my tika m65, uh, no, 505, even sorry, in 223 um, with a lovely myoptoscope on it. 4a reticle in there. I think everything was set up right. Magnification of eight. You could see the buck clear as day. It was bright, it wasn't dark.
Speaker 3:We'd only been in the woods probably less than 45 minutes yeah, I mean it sounds kind of quick what we did, but it wasn't rushed at all. It was all executed to perfection, really, wasn't it? I mean how it just laid out, it rolled out for us yeah, yeah, no, absolutely.
Speaker 2:So we're in that position now and and lee's up on that stump Make sure he's comfortable, everything's right and, yeah, basically controlling his breathing. You're always there when you've got somebody out stalking and you're listening to everything. I was probably more tense than he was at that point, going this is a cracking buck to take and everything's right. So carry on with yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean, I haven't actually said this to you before, peter, but I'm actually glad that I was on the stump with the bipod rather than not set up, stood up with the quad sticks no, I I kind of assumed that would be the case.
Speaker 2:I was, um, I was fully expecting that, uh, you'd have liked the position and that's why, when we got out the car, when I got there, I said I'm going to put the bipod on for you because there's a good opportunity and a chance that we can use some of the natural terrain or a stump to potentially get a shot. Yeah, so the topography of the land that we're actually shooting on is kind of a hill, and all the rides from all all corners of this, this permission lead up to an apex point, which is where we were. So, because it had been recently felled, all the stumps were fairly fresh. There was no high cover in there and kind of had an inkling that this, if we'd seen the book there earlier on in the day, he was going to pop back out. So, yeah, by walking in right to this center point, we just we could play the game out in our favor, which which we did, I think yeah, I do not think that.
Speaker 3:You know, even if we went to that book and asked him to move a foot in a different direction, we'd have got a better shot.
Speaker 2:No, absolutely the, the. The positioning was great. He did move just before he took the shot. He took a step actually, which probably made his positioning even better. He stepped down the hill slightly, slightly more, just putting himself in a much better position to to actually to take the shot. So, yeah, at that point can I take the shot? Yes, you can take the shot. Yes, you can take the shot. Take the shot when you're ready. And I just heard a crack above my head as the 223 went off and, um, yeah, I'll let lee give give you his feelings. And and what will happen next?
Speaker 3:yes, so, uh, yeah. So we waited for a few minutes. I got my breathing under control because I was actually pretty hyped up, you know. I mean, I've still got peter next to me, who I don't really know exactly, I've still got the setup, I don't know, and the terrain. But you know, everything got controlled and I took the shot, watched buck through the scope. Yeah, he jumped about 10 foot and then fell. So I was pretty happy with that. So myself and peter waited for 30 minutes and then we made our way down to him yeah, just before making our way down, actually a smaller cricket walked straight back in.
Speaker 2:It's a little spiker, so probably a year old, two years old just walked back into the clear, fell right in front I think. Lee's buck was 158 yards and this guy was about 100 yards away and I'm like do you want another one? Because it's there. He's like, no, no, no, you, you take it, you take it. I'm like, no, it's fine, we'll leave him for another day.
Speaker 3:so we watched him as well for a bit and and he was quite happily musing around and just kicking about in in the clear fell at the same time well, I don't think I could have took the shot here, to be honest, because the adrenaline was running through, like you know, like 10 cans of Red Bull at the time, so it wouldn't have been proper for me to even try and take the shot at that point no, absolutely, and so that that was that.
Speaker 2:So we watched this guy. I I did put the, the rifle just up on sticks just to have a better look at him and just to to identify what was going on. But yeah, as I said, he was a probably a year old, two year old little buck. Lots of potential. Might come out next, might come out next year, might not actually be in the clear fell next year because it is actually going to be, as I said, to lead. It's going to get completely and utterly, uh, deer fenced and that particular area I have to completely clear it when it goes for its replant. There can be no deer in there, so it is a cold zone.
Speaker 2:Um, and the two bits of woodland I took into to start with were both sort of a shoot on site policy. We're not there to to grow things on. We're, we're there to let things develop, but at the moment this clear fell that we're on hasn't been fenced, so there's no point in shooting that just for the sake of shooting it. We might as well let him have a have a bit more life, wait for him to develop a bit, and maybe one of the other boys can have a poppet in next year yeah, yeah, but yeah, so uh, obviously, after we see the uh.
Speaker 2:Other one, peter just explained we made our way down, we uh found its blood trail and I followed him and then there he was, on the floor so yeah, the the I was explaining to to lee that a lot of people now in deer stalking have have kind of some of them have lost the way with the ability to track and if they can't find it within like a few feet they'll call somebody in with a deer dog. But made lee get down on his hands and knees and start trying to find specks of blood and fairness to him. Absolutely bang on. A tiny speck of blood on, probably I think it was. It was on one of the stumps, wasn't it?
Speaker 3:it was just.
Speaker 2:You didn't even think it was I, I just thought it was a red mark on a piece of wood, but uh, no, that was it. And and then he picked up another one and another one and we just walked that straight to the deer. Yeah, so yeah, absolutely obviously sent lee in to to do the, the the test on the deer to, to make sure that was kind of one of the things. I asked the question do you know how to check that this deer is actually expired? And so I'm sure you can explain what I made him do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so, uh, peter explained that when we approach a deer, we approach it, uh, from the head area and we poke the eye with our quad sticks, with a stick. Obviously that's a major reaction point for the deer. So if it was still alive, if it was, you know, hurt, it would jump straight away. But in this case it was.
Speaker 2:It had gone already no, absolutely the the shot placement and the reaction shot. On that. Deer said that everything was right. Watching it from from back when he took the shot, absolute classic signs. Deer jumps front legs out and I just watched it unfold. It probably ran 10 yards wrapped around the stump and didn't get up again. So I I knew that it was down and it wasn't going to be moving. But obviously it's good for a new stalker to go through the whole process and see how it's done, because there are some times that you'll go down and you think you've shot it and actually it could still be. You might have shot it through the spine, so it's still actually going, but you've got to dispatch it at that point. So everything was done to the book to make sure that the whole process was seen. The big question now really is obviously lee shoots a lot. He shoots a lot of squirrels, shoots a lot of rabbits, but I think this is sort of the the biggest mammal you you would have taken yeah, of course it is.
Speaker 3:uh, you know I'll be honest with you, peter, you know, on the drive up here, I'm thinking about it, and you know I haven't come for medals. I've come, you, pierre, you know, on the drive up here and thinking about it, and you know I haven't come for medals. I've come for an experience, and you know the thought was lingering in my head if I could even pull the trigger, because I love my field, sports. My passion is air guns, but I do like to experience different things.
Speaker 2:No, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, I can see that and and I think we discussed that at the time that, um, obviously it's, it's complete, it's not completely different. A life's a life, and a squirrel still has its life, and a rabbit and a deer is just a big rabbit at the end of the day, yeah, but I think when you actually get up close to it, there's something different about them, isn't there?
Speaker 3:yeah, because, uh, you know, I kind of chatted you through that. You know, if you were sat next to me with your deer and I was sat with my squirrel in my hand, you look, you know, kind of more prestigious because you've got the big book and I've got the little squirrel. But in essence, to get to my little squirrel I'd probably have to work a little bit harder sometimes to get into that proximity to take him.
Speaker 2:No, absolutely, yeah, absolutely, and we were discussing that, obviously, the air gun shooter sub 12 foot pounds air gun you're getting up close and personal to those things. You're getting sort of within 20 to 30 yards and everything there is pretty aware of what's going on. That buck would have been well aware of us. We were only 150 yards away from it but we had everything in our favor at that time yeah.
Speaker 3:So let's jump back a little bit now. So obviously we've just talked about me, uh, getting in 20 to 30 yard. So when I arrived on friday, peter wanted to see if I could shoot and perform well with his rifles, which went okay. And I think Peter's second test on the Saturday was to take us through a very wooded tree line with heavily dropped branches to see how odd fair. And I think what he said was something about he thought he had a shadow wound.
Speaker 2:Yeah no, absolutely, it's so nice. Obviously I take a lot of people out stalking and and one of the keys is it's a bit of a test to see how noisy that person's going to be. Because I started stalking uh, seeker deer and we were discussing that that if you make a noise or close the car door, everything for the next couple of miles pretty much knows you're there. So I've always been taught to stalk a little and look a lot and it was like, well, let's just see how well this guy, who I've never stalked with, is going to do. We walked down the first track they're pretty quiet took him into into the tunnel through the trees that few people have been out stalking. We know exactly where it is. It has low branches, the ground is like a tinderbox. But I really almost didn't hear lee following me up that track and I and that that's, that's key. So all the rest of the stalking I didn't have to worry about somebody putting heavy footsteps down, grunting, making noise, coughing, anything like that. So it's like this is perfect, this is.
Speaker 3:This is just going to work out really well yeah, so I mean it's going back to like about what you said about the clothing and the uh environments we're in. It's all the same same environment and the same clothing, you know.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and I think that's that's one of the keys and quality hunting gear, if you take it that way. You want to be able to move in it and not make a noise. Yeah, and unfortunately there, there's other products out there that people buy and they're incredibly noisy, really, really noisy. Like you walk down the track and it's just like you've got shh shh, shh, shh and you're just like this is just um, we're not going to do this, but you get away with it with the row and a good windy day, yeah, but on a completely still day, it's, it's a game, it's another, another thing altogether is it like one of those 80s?
Speaker 3:uh, shill suits pretty pretty much yeah, yeah yeah, absolutely it's.
Speaker 2:Um, it's just one of those things that it can be so distracting, and if we can hear it, the animals of the forest, whose hearing is far better than ours, probably know you're coming. So yeah, that's one of the keys. So yeah, I was happy that you could stalk with no problems there and I was willing to push lee that bit further as well. It's like if that deer comes out at 200 yards, I've got no problems. My rifle is perfectly zeroed. You're a staple shot. You can take it. The look on his face was sort of like I'm not going to be taking a 200 yard shot of the deer yeah, but I felt comfortable.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I also wouldn't have taken the shot no, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And we ranged it and we checked that deer and 158 yards and I said to him that that that 223 will drop it perfectly. Yeah, so no issues there. So we were discussing that. Obviously you pulling the trigger is is kind of the clinical bit. As long as that goes right and the deer is down, that's the easy part done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, then came then. Then basically it was take the deer over to the tree land and I was going to do a fully suspended grolic so that lee could get the, instead of obviously just grolicing a deer on the floor and rushing away with it and going, that's it. We're done as, as a lot of people that would pay for a stalk would would happen and the guide would get in there, he'd get the innards out, that deer would be back in the truck, they'd be off the off the permission, drop back at the accommodation and that'll be back in the larder. I like to put everybody through their paces and show them everything and I think lee was very keen to to get over there and actually get that deer out, grollock it and go through the process. So, yeah, we, we basically started finding the tree. I pointed to a tree and said I want to go to that tree over there with the two spiky bits and he's like we're in a forest yeah, yeah, I can remember saying well, is he joking with me, or what?
Speaker 2:so so, so we, we, we set off, we set off across the, the clear fell to the, to the actual tree line, and, um, I've got two stainless steel hooks in my pocket and and basically showed lee where to put two cuts in the back leg, yeah, and then hung it up into the tree. And I'll let you carry on describing what, uh, what, the next part of the process was, because obviously it's all new to you yeah, well, I was kind of in mixed emotions already about uh shooting the deer.
Speaker 3:You know I mean I haven't done it before. I kind of felt, you know, a bit sad about it. You know I'm not a killer. But yeah, and the second part, I wanted the whole experience. So this is why I wanted to go through this with peter and uh probably growl at the deer, even if it would have made me a bit no, queasy, you know. But peter showed me expertly how to go on, what to cut where, what incisions and yeah it just fantastic experience with that no, absolutely, and it was really nice to see that he.
Speaker 2:Well, lee had a turned up. He had a lovely knife in his pocket. Now, sometimes you're never sure whether the hunter that's coming out with you. They've got a sharp knife. As most people know, my knives are usually like razor blades and they need to be, but the knife was sharp. Everything I asked him to do was great, um, and the process began. So, yeah, we, we hung the deer in the tree, um, and it was. It was a. It didn't have to be fast, it was dead at this point. So it's not, it's not going to run away or go anywhere, but it was a case of trying to, to guide lee through everything, to to show him the whole process from start to finish I will uh like to say that it is the first time I've held a male's penis, Peter.
Speaker 2:And it wasn't mine, it was Mr Buck who was quite well endowed and yeah, it was quite a joke saying to him you've got to hold on to that and cut around it.
Speaker 3:But I do think it's fantastic how you know, peter showed me the hooves. He showed me what to look for signs of disease, infections or anything like that. It's just, yeah, very knowledgeable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the little buck that we took well, not so little had obviously been through the wars. So the rut was around about end of July, beginning of August, this guy had a broken tine. But something I hadn't seen ever on a deer was he's got two chipped front teeth. We'll try and get photos once we prep the skull and stick it up online. Um, so doing the growlick and opening them up as well. Uh, we're going through.
Speaker 2:Everything was pretty normal, but he had a bit of a sticky lung, which is obviously an indicator that he may have had a bit pneumonia or something like that. There was no major concerns. We were obviously first thing you. You worry is has this deer got tb or something like that? So check the lungs, inspected everything, but no, just just sticky lung. So kind of, in some ways, a really good deer to have taken out of the picture. He's obviously had a hard time during the rut. He's probably been booted out by a stronger male and also, with this sticky lump, will he make it through the winter? We were discussing whether or not that winter was going to be hard this year. So in many ways it was a good deer for lee to see, because if you open a deer up and it's absolutely perfect. That's great. But if you open the deer up, that's got a few little problems. It's nicer and something to take away with you and be able to look at, isn't it really?
Speaker 3:yeah, and I appreciated uh taking the deer more after peter explained that it because of of how it's lived its life, but it probably wouldn't have made winter this year yeah, it, nor acting completely normally.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, he, he definitely had some issues, you know. So, yeah, at that point, obviously, we, um, we finished up, did any any necessary bits that we need to do, tie it up, put the growlick into the woods for the uh, for the wildlife to eat, and, um, we made our way out of the woods really and uh, and that was, that was the end of the stalk and I think, uh, I think Lee lee was was quite happy to get home and get a coffee at that point, yeah, a glass of whiskey, peter. Yeah, actually, if I get a coffee, yeah, he could deal with a glass of whiskey, but uh, yeah, no, absolutely it was. Uh, it's one of those things. It's.
Speaker 3:It's a lot to take in, I think yeah, I mean, you know it's still mixed emotions, probably when I woke up this morning about it and thinking about it, and that makes you human in many ways.
Speaker 2:I think anybody that's so cool and just takes it in their stride. Sometimes you have to wonder if that's the way they are just about taking the deer. How are they about the rest of life? At least you can see you're a human being if there's a few emotions going on there. Yeah, we're. This afternoon I believe we're going to go through the process of actually butchering that deer up. Yep, packing it up, sticking it in the freezer so that when lee gets back down to england he's got some tasty venison to eat is that eight hours?
Speaker 2:back down to england, peter. It's eight hours. It's a long way to come to aberdeenshire, but I guarantee anybody that here it's probably one of the best experiences they'll ever take with them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean that's why I wanted to come up here. I wanted the hard stalk, I wanted to be with somebody who knew what I was doing. And you know I got that.
Speaker 2:Fantastic. So, yeah, that's basically that was the deer stalk. Well, we'll, we'll hop back out and look at some of the bits that, um, some of the other bits of kit that lee uses and and see if he take, if he'll take anything he's learned from obviously the stalk up here back with him, um, for, for the, the tracking of squirrels and uh and and things like that. So if, if there was any bit of kit you could have had with you, what do you think it would have been?
Speaker 3:in all honesty, people liked my uh spartan ascent uh tripod okay, right, can you explain why? Because, uh, you know, we spoke about noises, we spoke about taking the safety off, rolling the safety off. Yep, the spartan kit. It's a very fast, very lightweight to be carrying around like we did yeah, yeah it's quick, stable and you know I'd feel comfortable using that as well okay.
Speaker 2:So yeah, lee obviously was had my rifle and on that rifle it had a harris non-swivel bipod, um, and I think I was adjusting the leg stream to get him a bit more stability, just for speed, because I was lying right next to the next to the front end of it, so it was easy for me just to reach over. So with that, that spartan bipod, how easy is it to adjust your legs?
Speaker 2:very easy uh just a click and they uh just extend, okay, so it's very so not like where I'm pulling it out and trying to twizzle a little knob to lock it into place. Obviously, that harris bipod is an old bike, god, um, but it does the job. Yeah, harris, are tried and tested. They are, but they're noisy and they're heavy. Yeah, so if you're, obviously the 223 is a quite a light rifle. You know, I wasn't making drag around the cannon, which is my 308, with a heavy barrel on it and and there's a fair weight with that and, and you know it after a few days of walking about your place. Um, so is there anything else that, uh, you would have, you'd have wanted here or did? Was there everything?
Speaker 3:I think everything was absolutely perfect.
Speaker 2:You know what I expected yeah, how your the optics you were using. Can you explain what binoculars you've got?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was using the GPO range guide 28 inders range finders.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:I mean the glass, german glass on them. Absolutely fantastic, worked well. Ping, super pings.
Speaker 2:So the reason? Okay, just explain. Obviously I've got a set of Steiner which aren't range finders and I've got a separate range finder. Why are you? I don't normally get my range finder out, as we explained about telegraph poles or electricity poles, distances and fence posts, so I'm kind of a bit more sort of I'll take a guess at the distance and work it from that. Why is a range finder so important to you?
Speaker 3:because most of my shooting concert, uh, is woodland shooting. Okay, so I don't have the luxury of fence poles everywhere and you know, uh, mansfield's 20 miles away, kind of thing. Okay, right, so, and distance up in trees, you know, you get a bit, uh, sometimes you just can't judge it. Okay, so, as we spoke about, I'd rather take a clean kill yep so I use my range fighters every time do you think also because you're shooting.
Speaker 2:I think we discussed ballistics and you're shooting a sub 12 air gun. I think at some point you were. You were a bit sort of concerned about the hold over and hold under of my rifle. I might know, just aim on it's there, whereas you said that doesn't work with an air gun, does it?
Speaker 3:No, I think the question was to you know, we've zeroed in at 100. If we want to shoot at 200, how much hold over would we have to give it? I think the answer was nearly nearly nothing. That's right, yeah, but if I was zeroed at uh 30 and I wanted to shoot at 60 with a sub 12, sub 12 pound air gun, I'd have to go a couple of inches over yeah, absolutely and and that's a two two.
Speaker 2:Your shooter isn't it mostly two, twos, yeah, yeah. So I think for anybody that knows, obviously you've got 177, and 2-2 are the main sort of calibres of the air guns, but the old 2-2 is a bit like he's bowling a cricket ball as it used to be.
Speaker 2:It's kind of such a loopy trajectory. You've got that little lump of lead flying through the air, but it's kind of doing a massive arc to get to where it goes. So I think that's the thing. When you you step up to the old powder burners. Um, that 223 is putting out a 55 grain bullet head and I think we were saying it was 3 700 foot per second. Yeah, so it is absolutely flying along and realistically the 223 is probably flat trajectory until about 300 yards, you know.
Speaker 2:Um, so yeah, it's taking somebody that that shoots obviously sort of lower. They're not well, they are lower power, but yeah, they're perfectly capable and they do exactly what they're supposed to do. Moving them up to something that pushes that boundary out and doesn't have the same drop off, yeah, it's, it's a bit to get your head around at the end of the day, isn't it? So, yeah, I think so, you know, but no performance wise. Just going back to the targets, had no issues there, so we put him on the quad sticks first. Shot down. Uh, the deer target, absolutely spot on.
Speaker 3:Well, actually we didn't know it was spot on because we couldn't see it yeah that's right. I thought I'd pulled it.
Speaker 2:That's right. So when we, when we actually put one of the silhouette on the quad sticks, he put a shot in probably about half an inch, just from sort of one of the marker points on it. And then we put one of the primo sticks and they're all wobbly and all the rest of it, but he cleverly for that next to the first bullet. So I'm like, yeah, at that point I've had no issues at all. You, you could shoot, didn't matter what we took out. But the quad sticks were the, the perseverance yeah, I mean, the quad sticks are nice.
Speaker 3:I suppose if you, you know, use them more, you'll be able to set them up quicker, be more efficient with them. But as well, I think, the terrain, some of the terrain we were working on, I don't think there'll be, you know, and that's always been my, my big thing.
Speaker 2:I've always thought that and I've had this argument with quite a lot of guys you can't deploy them because some of those ruts we were walking over two legs just just don't work. Splayed legs you have to have the primos, where you've got three stable points that drop down and find their own levels. Yeah, and I think that was that's. That was one of my biggest arguments. So, yeah, I'm not going to deny they're a very stable shooting platform, but they don't work in every situation. No, and as as we said, you, you have to make use of what's around you, don't you? Yeah, at the end of the day. So now you've shot your first deer, what's the plans going forward?
Speaker 3:I really don't know, because my passion is air guns, so you know I'm always going to stop with them. But the experience is there. I don't know. There's another five deers. There are, there are, yep. I don't know there's another five days.
Speaker 2:There are, there are yep, and you're very lucky where you are because access to those five days is pretty straightforward. It's not an eight-hour drive and you can have them all in about two or three, to be honest.
Speaker 3:So you know that could always be a go. But you know next week well, when I get home late Monday night and when I get up Tuesday I've got to put my game face back on. I've got to get back the air guns out because I've got a little HFT competition Right In a couple of weeks. So I've got to practice my holdovers, hold unders for that as well.
Speaker 2:Okay, so it's a whole different, yeah, it's a whole different shooting technique to what we're doing over here. Yeah, and anybody that's ever followed the airgun shooters, it's um, it's something completely different when they're sat there, obviously having to to shoot targets at distances and hold over, hold under and trying to hit something about the size of a 5p or 2 5p or 10p pieces of targets, some of them 5p yeah exactly.
Speaker 2:So yeah, we've got a target that's sort of the size of a dinner plate at 100 yards and and these guys are shooting a 5p piece at 30 yards yeah so, but yeah, it's all great, fantastic well as somebody, uh somebody, uh somebody commented um, the the best stalk would be when you've, uh, you'll go off for a red, a hill, open hill, red stag. But uh, yeah, it's future things to come from it yeah, no, it's fantastic.
Speaker 3:I'd like to say that we did video the whole growling, yeah yeah yeah, so maybe we probably might put that out at some point yeah, that's absolutely fine.
Speaker 2:So yeah, um, obviously we've tried to get as as much footage of this weekend as possible as well and you can see peter telling me off because I did make a little mistake.
Speaker 3:I've put my knife where I've put my knife, Peter.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's right. Yeah, the first thing was stick the knife in the soil and it's like no, you don't, that's contamination. So it was just explaining to Lee about obviously trying to keep knives and things like that off the ground, and I basically keep clean at the end of the day. But other than that, for a first growlick the carcass is perfectly acceptable. I've seen worse from professional stalkers.
Speaker 3:I was thinking about that actually. Peter, If you went to a restaurant and you ordered a steak, would you go outside and put your knife on the floor and then take it back and start eating your steak again?
Speaker 2:Probably not Exactly, so you can understand. Okay, yeah, we are in the field and things are a bit different, but even so, as always, the the key which we did. We probably took the deer a lot further down in the field than we normally would if we were having to drag it out, but because there was two of us and we actually carried the carcass out, we we hung it up on a stick so nothing was touching the floor, and we walked it out to the extraction point where we could drive in, transfer it into a carcass carrier in the back of my motor and I could get it back to the larder. There was no risk of that deer getting contaminated in any way. Yeah, that was kind of really good Going forward. Is there any plans? Is there anything new coming up in Harkila or Pulsar that you want to talk about?
Speaker 3:Well, of course there is Peter. You know these big companies, they're always working on the next step, Okay, but unfortunately I don't know, and if I didn't know I wouldn't be able to tell you.
Speaker 2:Anyway, that's all right, so keep, we'll have. We'll have to keep watching what Lee comes up with and uh and see what the next best thing is that's coming out of these. But obviously, if there's any questions you've got about kit, this guy's testing it and he is putting it through its paces, um, and it's always handy. It's been quite an experience actually listening and seeing some of the, the items that you've brought with you and looking at the technology that they've been throwing at stuff and where it's come from. Obviously, yeah, my Harkila kit's old and well-used and your stuff is well-used, but at least it's slightly newer than mine and probably a devil's eye more waterproof in some cases.
Speaker 3:But I do like it when you say your stuff is old and well-used, it's because it means it's still going testimony.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Well, you look at my. I've got a pair of pro hunter trousers on because we're just about to go back out for a stalk after we finish this recording. And I was saying to lee look at the holes in them. But every hole in there probably has a story behind it and something to tell about it. But they still work and and that's that's the key, isn't it story pants? Yeah, exactly, story pants. And and do they stand up by themselves? And that's that was it. Yeah, memory makers? Absolutely. So we'll probably bring this podcast to an end. We're just reaching the sort of the 50 minute mark. Yeah, um, I think we've covered pretty much everything, uh, so, yeah, lee's had his first deerstalking experience in the northeast of scotland. I think it pretty much went down well. He seems to be buzzing from it. We're about to go out again. A bit of a dreary day today. It was beautiful yesterday but the weather has turned a bit. But the bucks will still be out and about. They carry on no matter what and we'll see if we can.
Speaker 3:We can pick something else out from it yeah, I just want to say uh, thank you for taking your time away from your family this weekend, peter, and it's been an absolutely amazing experience, no problem at all thank you for that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you very much. Thank you, we are going to try and copy this audio onto a video and then upload it onto youtube. So the video should give you some of the scenes of what's been going on the stalks, some of the bits we've shot, uh, some of the butchery at the end and all the rest of it. So hopefully you have an audio commentary of the podcast over the top of that. And, yeah, it should be something a bit different. We'll try that. That brings this recording to an end. Hopefully, uh, everybody's enjoyed it.
Speaker 2:If there's any questions or comments, please ping them over. Uh, if there's anything else you'd like to hear about or anything like that, I'm sure lee can answer questions or I can answer the questions and we will see you in a period of time. I can't really say anymore. It's going to be two weeks or a month. It's just they're coming out. When they're coming out and as time goes by and we get some more guests organized and we stop running into these technical problems, we will keep releasing podcasts. All right, we'll speak to you soon. Bye for now.