26 The one stop shop for deer stalking equipment and training "Deercentral"

Have you ever wondered what it takes to build a successful deer stalking business from the ground up? Get ready for a fascinating journey as we sit down with Ben from Deer Central, a man whose path went from teenage air rifle enthusiast to military service and eventually to becoming one of the most respected voices in deer management training and equipment.

Ben shares his evolution from stalking hedgerows on his pushbike as a youngster to managing deer on Ministry of Defence estates, where he honed the skills that would later become the foundation of his business. His passion for passing knowledge to others shines through as he explains how Deer Central emerged from his combined experience in deer management, training delivery, and even his time as a butler on a sporting estate.

The conversation delves into the craft behind Deer Central's signature leather three-point harness sling, created to fill the market gap left when the popular Z-Aim sling disappeared during COVID. Ben's attention to quality and functionality has made this product a standout success, along with clever adaptations like the additional leather pad for muzzle-down carrying – addressing the real needs of stalkers in the field.

We explore the recent changes to the Deer Stalking Certificate system, with Ben providing valuable insights on how the shift of "trained hunter" status from DSC1 to DSC2 ensures stalkers have practical experience before placing venison into the food chain. His tips on marksmanship, knife skills, and equipment selection are gold for both newcomers and experienced hunters alike.

Perhaps most compelling is Ben's innovative "Field to Fork" experience, combining fine dining with hands-on stalking education – aimed at connecting city dwellers with the complete journey of their food. As he puts it, "you get so much more out of being in wildlife by slowing down," a philosophy that permeates everything Deer Central stands for.

Whether you're just starting your deer stalking journey or looking to refine your skills and equipment, this episode offers wisdom from someone who's truly mastered the craft from every angle.
 Check out https://deercentral.co.uk/

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Transcript

Speaker 3 0:24

Hello and welcome to the Outdoor Gibbon, episode 26. Today we will be talking with Ben from Deer Central, but before we get into the main body of the podcast, let's just have a quick catch up and discuss what's been going on. I think the first thing we should probably talk about is there is a consultation out for scotland only at the moment to look at whether all deer stalkers should have training. So be that the dsc1, dsc2, pds1, pds2, but basically, if you want to manage deer, you have to have this qualification in play. What are your thoughts on it? There's obviously a consultation happening, so if you're in scotland, it's worthwhile probably getting over there and responding to that. You may well have missed it if you're listening to this podcast in 2025, but it is current at the moment, as this podcast is literally going out at the beginning of february.

Speaker 3 1:24

There have been some interesting articles in the national press. I think the Sunday Times ran an article regarding deer stalking and venison, and the Telegraph has just had another article out regarding the consumption of venison, which is kind of nice to see that suddenly deer are making the front pages of well or the pages of the newspapers, and it's not all about people just shooting Bambi. It's actually about a sustainable, healthy food. So possibly the deer stalking community we're getting through and possibly we'll see venison more accessible to people that that aren't just in the hunting society. What else is new?

Speaker 3 2:10

We have recently had some podcast stickers produced. Now these stickers can be stuck on anything hopefully your car or windows or gun cases. It's just something that if somebody asks you, you can at least tell them about the podcast. If you're interested in getting hold of one of these, they will be available at the Stalking Show. Or you can either drop me an email or DM me and drop us your address and we will get you a sticker out in the post. Get it stuck on something, send us back a photo of what you've stuck it on and hopefully it'll spread the word far and wide and more and more people will listen to the podcast.

Speaker 3 2:48

Anyway, let's get on with the main podcast. So we interviewed ben from deer central. Deer central is a one-stop shop for everything you could want as a deer stalker, be it a knife to some training. Now, everything that ben talks about in here is his own personal view and doesn't have anything to do with the bodies that he works for. Just, uh, get that one out there before we start, but anyway, let's crack on and listen to what outdoor giving podcast today.

Speaker 3 3:40

I am joined by ben from deer central everything you would ever need to get yourself into deer stalking. Hello Ben.

Speaker 2 3:48

Hi Peter. Yeah, thanks for having me.

Speaker 3 3:51

No problem at all. I know it's been a bit crazy trying to fit you in round, getting clients out and stuff like that, but we finally managed to nail a time down to get this recording done.

Speaker 2 4:01

Yeah, absolutely no, it's good to be busy, but I've been looking forward to actually chatting to you actually and getting fantastic on an interview excellent.

Speaker 3 4:11

So my question usually to every, every client, that every guest that comes on here here, is uh, tell us a bit about yourself and how you got started in uh in the shooting game yeah, well, I?

Speaker 2 4:24

um was born and grew up in the Dunstable area, bedfordshire, and I didn't have a rural upbringing as such, but I went to school with some friends that did and they got me into air rifle shooting. So I was able to go and get some farms local to Dunstable and I remember going down there on my my push bike with my air rifle, stalking up uh hedgerows, um, you know, painstakingly stalking rabbits like inch at a time, um, and and I learned my field craft um there originally and got that and got caught that bug, if you like, um. But then I joined the forces at 17 right um. So I had a completely different type of of training, um and um, I learned um how to shoot in the forces as well, um, and I remember um opting in for very, you know, shooting competitions and things like that. I really loved uh the competitions um and and and the the, you know, any time on the range I I loved, I loved that. Some people hated it. I loved it, um.

Speaker 2 5:32

But it wasn't till uh 2003 when I was in iraq and I was. I just had that itch to to something. When I got got back home I wanted to get out and then go and do some hunting again. And I I was doing the research and I came across the deer stalking certificate, okay, and I booked on to that at um stanton down in thepford, um, and it was um pure luck that um, through that course and the the networking that I did on that course, that I was put in touch with someone, um that was involved with managing deer on the mod estate. All right, wow.

Speaker 2 6:10

So off the back of dsc1 um, I I was um, I entered the organization as a trainee um and I went through um something I think it was near a two-year probation as a trainee where, um I was under the wing of a number of different experienced deer managers and it wasn't just deer stalking, I was taught it. I was taught um, uh, you know census work um, coal planning, um, you know putting together the, the plans and the, the estimates, and then, um, and it was expected that after you eventually got upgraded, you take on responsibility, so, um, so I um was uh, eventually put in charge of an area myself and then took on trainees and developed them and yeah, that's how and that's how I got into it and then so I feel really, really lucky I was gonna say that sounds really interesting.

Speaker 3 7:03

Obviously because the mod side of things they've got a lot of a lot of land and there's a lot of deer roaming around on that land, but I think salisbury is one of their biggest areas, that's. That's pretty packed with, uh, with animals, isn't it?

Speaker 2 7:14

yeah I, it's something like 200, is it 260 000 hectares? Nation, yeah, something like that is. It's, it's a huge estate, but, um, but effectively that that yeah, the defense of service providers um, it's it's a very professionally run organization and and um, yeah, I, I've got a lot to uh to be thankful for, really with that so let's just dig a bit deeper on that one for me, because people, some people might not know now.

Speaker 3 7:43

Is that open only to serving military or is that open to the general public?

Speaker 2 7:50

um no, I mean the way it's, the way um is run, it's yeah, it's it's volunteer force within the services, but um right, no, I mean, if only it can. I mean I I can't talk too much um, and I mean I'm not a representative for the organization or anything like that, but but, and there is something that can be found by serving personnel if they're interested in it, but it's, but yeah, at the time you know I was yeah, it was. It was really lucky I was put in touch with a regional representative and there was an opening for me. Oh, fantastic.

Speaker 2 8:28

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 8:29

It's just handy to know. Obviously, if there's any guys that are listening, that are still serving and they're looking to get into it, then that's obviously something they can go down the route of, Because I know there's another scheme now that started for the Marines called Project Artemis, which is obviously offering rifle shooting, and I think they've got a division that a friend of mine looking at, which is the bow hunting side of things, a similar idea um.

Speaker 2 8:55

Have you had any any dealings with them? Um, not directly, but um but indirectly. I mean, I've had a good chat with, with, um, with people involved.

Speaker 2 9:02

It's a small world, isn't it so it is really there's a chap called steve who's got who's uh, he's integral to sort of organizing that that group and then, yeah, I know it's a, it's a really great opportunity for for raw marines to um, to to get into deer stalking. They've got um that they, they, that's what they do. They're kind of trying to. You know, it's for remote raw marines it's.

Speaker 3 9:23

It's it's kind of a full sort of training course to actually give them some extra skills and stuff like that at the end of it. Really, that's what I was led to believe. Anyway, moving on from your background on that, you've obviously you run as people might know if they've had a look you run Deer Central, which is like a one-stop shop for somebody coming into deer stalking or just any deer stalker.

The Deer Central Business Story

Speaker 2 9:47

Tell us a bit about how that started and and sort of where it's gone to yeah, well, I um, I left the forces um quite some time ago and uh, and I um, I actually spent 11 years as a butler on a sporting estate, oh right, wow. So I was really lucky there as well, where I had an understanding employer who encouraged me to pursue my own interest outside of work, and my main interest has remained always been deer. It's been a bit of an obsession for me and so I kept a lot of my volunteer work going and I picked up ground in the local area and I eventually started helping on a regional DSC1 course, delivering training. So the kind of enjoyment of passing on knowledge and skills has always been sort of integral to my enjoyment of the outdoors really. And yeah, yeah, um. So deer central was born out of um, out of the experience that I've built up and delivering training, uh, within defense deer management, and then and then wanting to uh develop that and deliver dsc1 courses, and then um, and then so people just looking after that, but um, but yeah, that that's how that started and it is.

Speaker 2 11:23

There came a point um within, uh, the employment I had, I realized to do to, to devote the time I needed to to, to deliver good quality service. Um, I was going to have to um plan to take it full time and that was like a uh, quite um nerve-wracking, you know, period where you know I, I had to try and figure out how I was going to build this business to the point where I could jump into it full time. Um, so I, I want, you know, I, I took on on the retail side of things, so I wanted to supply good kits as well as teach people, you know how to use it, and it grew.

Speaker 3 12:12

Oh, fantastic, fantastic, so that sort of leads us on to. Obviously, I think I found Deer Central purely because you started posting stuff about a sling, a three-point harness sling. I think Z-Aim point or whatever it was, was the sling. I had Nobody made it anymore and you guys had demonstrated and created this absolutely fantastic looking leather, new leather sling. That was a three-point harness sling and it was pre-order and all the rest of it. So I think I signed up for a pre-order. So tell us, so obviously, tell us about how you, uh, how you came with. Well, that came out.

Premium Rifle Slings and Equipment

Speaker 2 12:50

that was obviously a fantastic product yeah, well, um, we were very happy we stocked the zed aim sling, um, and as a concept, uh, I think there were similar concepts before them floating around but they were the real success story really, and they became unavailable during Covid I think, and there was a real demand for them and it wasn't only me that spotted an opening there to supply slings on a similar concept. But I was really keen to um put something really high quality together, um, and I've always loved leather. I've always loved a um a rifle with a nice um wooden stock on it with, you know, the high grade sort of wooden, dark and light colors and all that kind of thing. Um, so I went about um finding a saddler who was, uh, who, who was willing to sort of manage the potential upscale of a, of a product which I always hoped would be popular, and it really has proven to be it seems to be definitely, as I say, because that zed aims thing disappeared thing disappeared off the market.

Speaker 3 14:05

You mentioned that a few other companies have produced something as well, but yours seems to be out there. It is high quality, it's absolutely beautifully made. You're a man of my own heart. Obviously wooden stocks on rifles, so the sling goes hand-in-hand at the end of the day. But you've also come up with a few extra bits that people can have, so if they've actually got a sling they really like, you've made like an adapter that will clip onto that sling to then make it into a three-point harness yeah, that's it.

Speaker 2 14:36

We just call it the, the, the central, uh pro chest strap, um, and it's a. It's a slip-on loop with a buckle that tightens up against your sling so you can convert your own, uh, traditional sling into a three-point harness as well. Fantastic. So, yeah, pretty simple.

Speaker 3 14:55

Um, not not an original concept, but the need is there, so, uh, yeah, no, absolutely, and I think your latest piece that you've come out with, I used to like carry my rifle, um, obviously muzzle down, and I think we were discussing we've discussed it on the phone before um, and you've now created that if you've got the three points harness sling, that, the, the, the essential sling you've now made a like an extra pad, that, uh, I'll let you explain yeah, that's it.

Speaker 2 15:19

So, um, I've, like you um very used to carrying my rifle muzzle down um, but the the three-point sling um is most comfortable. It doesn't really work with a muzzle down position. It needs steady muzzle up um, which is good from for crossing opens, rain, getting from a to b um. But even though I? I love that concept and I do use it um whenever I reach an area where I think I might have a time critical shot, or in woodland, for example, and I I always switch to muzzle down. But of course, uh doing that with the three-point sling, you've just got this thin bit of canvas. So, simple fix. We've created a? Um another leather pad which matches your, your soft leather pad at the other end um, and it slides on um, yeah, and, and you can, you can. You've then got the option. You can reconnect that chest strap so that it doesn't uh, you know, uh, swing around in the wind and you can switch to muzzle down and uh, yeah, you've got the pad at the other end as well fantastic.

Speaker 3 16:24

No, absolutely. I'm kind of looking forward to uh to fit in mind that uh that you sent me to actually how you get on with it. Get it out there and test it. I'd say the only reason I started really carrying the rifle, um, muzzle up with the three-point sling is I suffer massively with like bad back problems and all the rest of it, and anybody that's listening that hasn't got a bad back. When you get older and you walk around and you start to get a bad back carrying a rifle on your shoulder all day, it suddenly starts to do weird things to how your back structure works. The three-point takes all that pressure off because it actually stabilizes the rifle and it's made stalking actually pleasurable again, rather than after two days of wandering around the woods suffering massively with like a sore shoulder or lower back pain. So no, it has been, it's worth looking at. Tell us some other products you've got going on, obviously within the shop.

Speaker 2 17:17

Yeah, well, I try to focus on the essentials. So all the stuff a deer stalker needs, but none of the stuff you don't need. So I try to stock good quality kits and with some kits obviously buying cheap is a false economy, but I still try to stock some good value kits at a slightly lower price range. So we've got a whole range. Um, we do set people up with firearms we're a firearms dealer um. But um, yeah, as as well as um, you know, spotting optics, uh and thermal. We're an official dealer for pulsar and okay, cool and gpo um, which are the a really good quality um german company yeah, yeah, they seem to have come onto the market that something I hadn't heard of for a while.

Speaker 3 18:13

And then, obviously, gpo pop.

Speaker 2 18:15

You see there was a lot more posts going on on social media about it and, and yeah, having to look through a set of binders that they are cracking spot on yeah, and, and you know, as entry level, I, um, I always say, look, but spend as much as you can afford on your optics, because there's your optics that are really going to, uh, um, be, be critical to, to actually spotting and studying and ideeing, so, um, so, yeah, um, but don't scrimp on optics, but don't think you have to spend, uh, top money necessarily no, absolutely well, there's some out there that you look at and it's eye-watering the prices.

Speaker 3 18:53

But I remember being told when I bought my first rifle buy the rifle even if it's second hand. But, um, basically pay double what you've paid for the rifle and stick a piece of glass on it, because at the end of the day, the piece of glass on the rifle is the thing that's actually going to let you see what you're about to shoot yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah.

Speaker 2 19:13

There's when, when people start shopping, I I have, uh, quite a few conversations with people over the phone about um rifles I've seen they're looking at and and then talk about optics and and you can just tell that the the sparkly uh toys you know on the shelves or on on online that they're looking at and and you think that you, yeah, definitely invest in good, good optics good, good, good glass, especially for us deer stalkers.

Speaker 3 19:39

The the times when we need our optics the most is that dawn dusk, just that transition, and lower quality glass doesn't have it. It's weird. It gets kind of a milky effect that goes on and suddenly your whole, your whole deer stalk can be ruined because all of a sudden you're transitioning on the light, that that cusp of the light, and all of a sudden you can't see what you're trying to shoot at. Uh, whereas if you've got something, that that's quality, it makes all the difference yeah, no, absolutely it does.

Speaker 2 20:10

I mean, usually the conversation goes to to thermal and things like that and that that is the the big temptation now for a lot of uh stalkers starting, um, you know, trying to uh juggle the bank balance between you know, do do I invest in thermal or not? And yeah, I don't know what your view is, but I always encourage anyone starting out to invest in a good set of binos first.

Speaker 3 20:37

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I'm very much. If you're going out stalking recreationally, realistically, if you can start with a pair of binos and your and your rifle happy days, that that's. That's going to teach you more field craft. If you go out there and you pull a thermal up and you see everything, that's like a mile away. It doesn't really give you the ability to actually find that.

Speaker 3 21:02

Okay, you still have to spot it and be able to address it, but you kind of got a head start on it, whereas actually when you're walking along you're caught. When you start out you're going to miss a few things and you're going to stumble over stuff. But that's the learning curve that makes you walk quieter, slower, take the pace down, whereas I think, yeah, too many guys now can just go out and buy a relatively well, it's almost low cost thermal, because when thermal first came to the market it was eye-watering again on prices. But I think under a thousand pounds you can now have a handheld spotter that will actually identify stuff. Okay, maybe not perfectly clear, but at least it's giving you a heat signature yeah, that's it.

Speaker 2 21:40

No, it's, it's. There's no doubt it's changed the way we store. I was was out with someone today and he was taking the lead, the trainee, and we were working our way through this small scrubby field and a blackbird got up and gave that sort of alarm call as it sort of flew down the hedgerow and I stopped him and I said I said, look, did you hear that? And you know what it's doing? And it's, uh, that, that's, that's alerting the, everything in the area. So I said, look, just if you hear that, and just stop still for a minute and, uh, and just see, because deer will pick up on those signals. Yeah, it's all those little things that, um, with a throw, you can be tempted to, to move faster, to, to absolutely.

Speaker 3 22:27

And a deer can be standing behind a tree and you haven't seen it. And all of a sudden you walk forward and this thing just turns and flies. But it's it. We've had problems with guys on the hill with thermals. They're, they're there. You're standing there watching the deer, he's taking the shot. You've followed it with your binos because that's what you're going to do. The next thing he's like oh, I've seen it, I've seen it, it's, it's, it's over there. It's run out the picture. I'm like well, no, your deer is 50 yards down there. No, it can't be. I watched it run out with the thermal over there. It's like let's, let's go to where I think the deer is. Oh, look, there's your deer and and it's technology for you. Sometimes it becomes too reliant and almost too complicated. Yeah, old-fashioned stalking was a fixed power scope and a set of binos.

Speaker 2 23:11

Now people are dialing stuff in and high pack, high precision and all the rest of it, and it's just like go back to the basics to start, learn to start with the basics you, you really, and you, you do get so much more out of uh of being in wildlife by slowing down and and just um is you know, wildlife will come out around you if you, if you absolutely.

Speaker 3 23:35

I think I think the the the most important words of advice, especially stalking seeker deer, for me was you stalk what is it? Walk a little, look a lot, kind of thing. And so if it's 10 paces in your glass, again you do, because actually in those 10 paces you've moved.

Speaker 3 23:51

The whole environment you're in suddenly can change yes, yeah, absolutely yeah so, um well, while we're on that, that subject of kit, let's, let's just talk. Say we've got any new stalkers listening, or guys thinking about getting into it, or even ladies thinking about getting into it. Give us a couple of essentials that you think that any, any new person coming into the into stalking should have.

Speaker 2 24:14

Well, as you might expect, having just chatted about optics, I'd say, yeah, definitely a good set of day optics binos and chatting to a few experienced stalkers to decide what magnification and objectives, lens size Because you know it does does make a difference, and there might be slight differences depending on whether you're talking open ground or woodland, or woodland a lot more than open ground, that kind of thing.

Speaker 2 24:43

So it's good to have a chat, experienced people um, before you make a decision and and then, um, really, I the the bits of um, you know, setting up a rifle, I should say um, I have come across cases where um people have had rifles set up for them and um scopes haven't been mounted properly, uh, with the correct eye relief and things like that, um, and and that that makes a big difference to to your shooting um well, yeah, no, absolutely yeah, getting a, getting a rifle set up properly and by someone who really does know how to do it, and and getting some time behind that rifle with someone who knows how to coach properly, that that's that's really time and money well spent, um.

Speaker 2 25:35

So, but aside from that, if you were, I suppose, if we were just looking at um, if we're just looking at processing kit, um, you know good sharp knife um, and you don't have to spend the the earth on on a on a knife um, a knife that you know how to sharpen um I think I think that's key.

Speaker 3 25:54

I think I think there's a lot of people out there.

Speaker 2 25:56

They get a sharp knife and it's really sharp on day one, but they, I think it's it's it's still the black art of being able to sharpen stuff and actually there's so many products out there that give you all the guide you need to actually sharpen a knife and keep a good edge on it yeah, yeah, there are and and we do stock a few and we we stock, uh, the landscape product, yeah, and they then they're very basic and yeah, it's just understanding, uh yeah, edge geometry and and how to maintain an angle and and how to refine an edge, not not just hack away at it with a with a cheap, um, a cheap device, uh, that's got, uh, you know one of these v's in it. Um, you know my biggest.

Speaker 3 26:39

The thing we find the worst is in our larder. We've got other people coming and out when we're on the hill and every time you go in the larder and pick one of the knives up, it's like what has somebody done to? It's almost like they've rubbed it across a brick. And you look across and there's this v-shaped thing there and you're just like, yeah, right, so you've got to spend 20 minutes trying to get knife sharp to just finish the process. But we've kind of taken our own knives in the larder now. But, as you say, the lansky system, you can't fault it.

DSC1 Changes and Training Updates

Speaker 2 27:07

Um, it does exactly what it says on the tin and it will give you a razor sharp edge yeah will, yeah, just taking things through through, uh, through the stages from sharpening to to honing, to polishing, people forget that you know what, once you refine that edge, um, if you, if you're, if you learn how to maintain that angle, or, lansky, have some products that actually maintain the angle for you, um then don't forget the last stage, which is the polishing stage. So, uh, get, you know, we stock a few strops, um, right, okay, yeah, so you know if, if, uh, you know if you look after your knife, and and the other thing I love teaching people, um, when I'm out deer stalking with them, is, um, how to use a knife properly and not hack away against the bones and things like that when you get come to knives don't cut bones do they saw cuts bone, but knife doesn't um, but, but, uh, but you know.

Speaker 2 27:58

And then you know all you should need to do is, uh, you touch it up on a, on a strop, um, if you're looking after it, and then occasionally, you know, back to back to sharpening no, absolutely.

Speaker 3 28:10

And that's the. That's the key. It's getting people to understand that if you're out there and you're growling a deer, you don't need. You hear a lot of guys, a lot of. I've hear a lot of guys, a lot of. I've met a lot of people that will go oh, I just put the knife straight through the rib cage. All right, it works fine if it's, if it's a smaller animal and you've got a good blade with a, with a, probably a, not a thicker, what was it? A bigger angle on it at the end of the day. So it will go through a rib cage, but you still can damage your knife. Um, so again, novices, it's teach them knife skills. That's that's what I seem to find. And and just say, if you're gonna cut rib cages, just buy yourself a five quid or six quid saw or something like that, and and I'm sure you probably stock something like that- yeah, no, we do.

Speaker 2 28:55

And and I think for me it's more the safety aspects of of cutting through a rib cage, because you know it only takes one slip, um, and if you've got a saw made for the job, a little short, uh, breastbone saw, um, yeah, you, you can, you don't have to spend much. And on one, there are some we do castron, which are the probably the best out there, but you know we do some cheaper ones as well yeah, and for what?

Speaker 3 29:22

for the amount of use it gets, it'll never. Realistically, your average stalker is never going to blunt it down, unless you're going to go and chop all the trees down around you to try and find somewhere to hang your deer with your s hooks out of the tree. But realistically, that saw is going to last you a lifetime.

Speaker 2 29:37

Yeah, yeah, absolutely no, castron. They've even got the exchangeable blades, but I've I've never really had, um, anyone come back to me saying that they need a new blade for one. Uh, uh, yeah, I mean they, they, castron, used to have a weak point in the tang, um, and before they widened it, um, there there were a few that snapped at that weak point. But, um, but no, they're. They're a good company, castron, they're nice as well. Yeah, we stock their knives. They've, they've got some, they've developed some, uh, a lot more kydex sheets now which are a bit more hygienic than the leather sheet. So I'm, I'm really pleased that, um, you know, because I'm supposed to sort of promote, you know, the, the, the best practice, the hygiene. Yeah, no, absolutely. And yeah, so you can buy a kydex sheath for them as well as your fancy leather sheath.

Speaker 3 30:25

Good, I'm assuming you obviously stock other things like sticks and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 30:31

Oh yeah, thanks for the prompts. Yeah, the Vibraflex sticks. You know I've stocked V viper flex sticks for quite some time and and the the all of the kit that I usually end up stocking. Um, I've tried and and I've thought either you know that that's really good value for stalkers starting out, or you know that's the best uh tool that I found to do that particular job. And and viper flex comes under the uh, the latter category. Um, they, I I really enjoy coaching on the range with them. Um, when, when you set them up for someone and show, show them how to set their position up behind a set of viper flex sticks, um, yeah, you, you can get incredible results. You, some people say you know that they've built to set their position up behind a set of Viperflex sticks. Yeah, you can get incredible results. Some people say you know that they've built the confidence to never really take another prone shot again.

Speaker 3 31:28

There's certainly. Well, I remember when the first quad sticks came out. I think I built my own set of quad sticks back in the day for air rifle shooting out of some wood I bought from B&Q. And then, obviously, klaus developed over the years his viper flex and finally came out with his sort of his latest designs. But yeah, quad sticks are just, they change the game literally. When you can set up there and you know, for anybody that's listening, the only movement realistically you're going to get is a vertical movement.

Speaker 3 31:56

It's your breathing movement yeah if you can control that, then you can take 200 yard shots, happily, off vibraflex sticks and put them in the target. But for a novice that's just training that 100 yard shot off off a set of sticks it's, it's, it's so stable yeah, yeah, the I I enjoy teaching people how to shoot with them in the closed position.

Speaker 2 32:20

So twin sticks, so OK, what I found is certainly taking novices out. Stalking is they come. Well, I take everyone to a marksmanship coaching session. Now, if anyone comes to me, I say look, you're new to me, let's go on the range, let's start from the beginning, let's get the fundamentals right with your shooting, and then allows me to get to know someone a little bit and then I'll take them, you see. So, um, and what I found, though, um, you know, in the past, is, um that people attempted to set the sticks up in the most stable position they can and because it gives them a bit more confidence to be able to shoot accurately. Whereas, um, what I find, if I take people out in the range and actually show them how to build the correct position between um behind twin sticks, um, as you know, especially stalking woodlands, it's uncritical yeah, yeah yeah, the time it takes to set those quad sticks up.

Speaker 2 33:16

For a novice, the day is gone, or they all notice the movement and then gone, and so, um yeah, to be able to give someone the confidence to be able to set their position up correctly on twin sticks and take a, an accurate shot at a sensible distance, um, yeah, yeah it's fantastic.

Speaker 3 33:32

So that kind of actually moves us quite nicely on to. You've just mentioned there that you obviously do a um, a firearms training appreciation course, what else? What other training does the essential offer? Because that's that's sort of the other side of the um, the part of the business, isn't it really?

Speaker 2 33:49

yeah, well, it's built around training and education and um, and, and I use the, the DSC system. It's the system that I got involved with when I first started. That was the first course. I did the DSC one and it was the framework that the organization I was involved with used. You know, right through to DSC too. You know, right through to dsc2. So, um, I, I, um, I've been lucky enough to um become um an approved trainer right and an assessor for the qualification um.

Speaker 2 34:31

So, um, for the deer stalking side of things, um, it's certainly um built around that structured framework of the DSC and I'll have people come out with me and, prior to doing those courses, just because they want to, you know, see if it's for them and okay, yeah, we'll go to the range and we'll do a bit of shooting the range prior to going out for a deer stalk. And I also get clients that come back to me after doing dsc1 with me first and then we I progress them practically um and give them that uh progression of experience towards dsc2. Um, but, yeah, um, I've had, um I I run a firearms awareness course. I run a kind of a one day and a two day firearms safety or firearms awareness course as well. So I delivered that in the past. But I suppose that's more for people going into pest control.

Speaker 3 35:35

Okay, yeah pest control. Okay, yeah, yeah, or, and want that, um, want that proof of training from a credible trainer, if you like but I suppose it helps with people applying for their their firearms license, because obviously if if somebody's come and done a course with you, it's obviously one of those things that they can put in their covering letter for their application, I'm assuming yeah, yeah and uh, yeah.

Speaker 2 36:00

I mean, even even last week I had um an officer from the met, call me um, and and I I delivered a one of these courses to someone maybe a year ago and uh, and he was, he's now going. This candidate, this student was, is now going through his application for his farm certificate, and we were chatting on the phone and I do think they have quite a tough job to do, because, whilst there is no legal requirement to have either a DSC1 or a qualification of such to um to get a uh farm certificate issued, um, the police do have to still um kind of establish whether someone's sufficiently experienced not to be it's fit and competent, isn't it really?

Speaker 3 36:51

that's what they're looking for yeah, so um, so yeah.

Speaker 2 36:55

I mean he was saying to me, you know, to have to have that certificate of attendance with the subjects listed on it that we'd covered, um was was really valuable, you know, and and that's. I think that's the difference between um. You know that they've used the mentorship system in the past and some counties still use that. But you know, how do you, how do you quantify the quality of that mentorship? Or you know how, how can you say it's, you've got a credible mentor? You know it's quite difficult, isn't it? But yeah, so I've, I've. I do run, run that side of things as well.

Speaker 3 37:36

OK, so obviously people listening might not know, but if they don't, they're about to find out. Dsc1 has has changed um, can you tell us what those changes are?

Speaker 2 37:48

yeah, um, so what? The first thing I should probably say is um, I'm, uh, although I've been involved with the system for so many years and I I'm I still involved with delivering DSC1 now and DSC2 as a trainer and assessor. Obviously, I don't speak on behalf of the organization, either BASC or DMQ, so I can certainly give you an overview from a trainer's point of view. Okay, so, um, I think the first thing, um that I see talked about a lot is, uh, the, the food hygiene okay, yeah, yeah, that would.

Speaker 3 38:26

That was kind of one of the big things that got picked up, yeah yeah, so um.

Speaker 2 38:31

It's quite frustrating for me actually, because, as a trainer, I um, I know there's talk that it's been been taken out and you no longer get your food hygiene qualification. Well, as a trainer, I know that nothing has changed. Ok, the DSC1 that I teach still contains all of the food hygiene module, right, and candidates are still assessed. Um, so what? What has changed?

Speaker 2 39:05

What people picked up on is, um, this status of trained hunter, um, so trained hunter status, um was awarded after dsc1, prior to the change. That's right, yeah, yeah, so, um, and and and that got shifted because, um, I mean, I remember when, uh, one of the big criticisms of dsc1, um, and you there's so that you always get the critiques out there, don't you? You do one of the, yeah, one of the one of the criticisms was that, um, candidates or students were completing the sc1 and and, uh, many of them never having seen a, a carcass, uh, in in the flesh, excuse the pun um, and then they're qualified and as trained hunters and they can go and put carcasses into the food chain and um and the, the change, um, everyone should really be quite supportive of and and and in. That's now trained hunter status is awarded at dsc2, so um, so that the, the practical progression, um or the experience built, then um.

Speaker 3 40:18

People take dsc2 and they prove that they can put all of that theory into practice and which actually is is a much better way of having it, because even when I think back to do my dsc1, yeah, you filled all that, you did all the exams, you did your practical and all of a sudden you got a piece of paper that said, yeah, you're a trained hunter. It's like I've never growled at the deer. How, how's that supposed to be the case?

Speaker 2 40:40

yeah, yeah, exactly, I mean don't get me wrong the the, the content that I teach on dsc1, um I I feel is is really quite good considering, uh, considering its theory in a classroom. Um, I love to do a practical demo where I can, but and I have done that on on courses in the past um, but quite a few venues, um, it's just not possible, you know, and but I do want to take people on from dsu1 and train them practically, so, uh, so I always encourage people to book in with me, um, and I can go through things like that with them one-to-one um, I think that's the key, isn't it?

Speaker 3 41:21

I think there's, there's. Yeah, I remember back to mine. I think my dsc one was was done with a chap called david stretum who was donnington deer management. Now he obviously added his own extras in there and I remember when we came on to the hygiene and lymph nodes and all they'd literally taken a deer, taken the skin off it and then taking it down in slices, almost so you could see everything as you were going through it and he could explain all of that. But, as you say, that was just his, his own additional slides and trying to do something like that in a classroom. Sometimes you've just mentioned, it's not possible to then whip out a deer and grolic it there and then for your students because it's got to be fresh that morning, because otherwise it's going to be a fairly, fairly big balloon in there, um, but, but yeah, taking them on and actually the one-to-one, I think the real learning for most people is is the hands-on experience yeah, I mean, it's a very practical topic really, isn't it?

Speaker 2 42:16

I mean, but the but to be able to build that underpinning knowledge, and, you know, in the classroom, and it adds so much more to someone's experience. You know that the, the, the um, it's possible to go out, um and learn a lot in the field over a long period of time, and if you're lucky enough to do that, but to be able to get some formal training, um, you know, in a short space of time, um, you know, yeah, you can go better, better equipped well, I think we're about one of the only countries I know of, because eve I was I was talking to somebody, even the states to get your hunter's permit, it starts off.

Speaker 3 42:57

The guys start learning this stuff at high school, so there's, they can all go out. They've got to have, they've got to pass their hunting exam before they can get their bow, or or they can go out and actually basically go get their their tags, and I think it's the same in places like the scandinavia and germany. You all have to go and do a fairly long-winded hunter's education program. Yeah to, to get that qualification and then you can have your hunting rifle and and you can go out by yourself and actually go hunting, whereas we're incredibly spoiled in the uk. We we can get your rifle and you can.

Field to Fork Experience

Speaker 2 43:36

You can go out and go stalking yeah, yeah, it's built into a tradition in in many continental countries, isn't it? And um, yeah, I mean that I think the the way we have it in in this country it does. Um, it is a little bit of an anomaly, isn isn't it? I think if you have good reason, if you can give the police good reason why you should be able to have a firearm and you tick all of those other boxes, yeah, you can have a firearm issued for either pest control or foxing.

Speaker 3 44:14

Normally it's a 243, but you start somewhere and that's where it goes from. So, yeah, but that's it. Anyway, that's where it goes from. So, yeah, it's, uh, but that's it anyway. Let's, let's pull it back around to the dsc1. So the other major thing that's changed on that, uh, I think, is the practical. Do you want to just tell people how that's, that sort of change from from what it used to be?

Speaker 2 44:32

um by practically being shooting yeah, the actual shooting test so, yeah, there was um, there was a change, um in that, um, the, the target that is used, and the kill area was reduced to five inches, uh, as a circle and from from a slightly different sort of rectangular shape across the killer area of the chest, and there was um so is that that's on the silhouette target, isn't it?

Speaker 3 45:04

because you'll get to shoot a zeroing target first, and then there was obviously there used to be like what looked like a row silhouette kind of thing yeah, so the zeroing target used to be part of the assessment.

Speaker 2 45:15

You had to um, print three rounds into that four inch zeroing circle and first, before you moved on to the deer target that's right now. Uh, all of the assessment is on that deer silhouette target and, okay, candidates still shoot the three round grouping, um, but it's, it's a proof that the rifles zeroed and a bit of a confidence boost to the candidate. Um, then the main assessment is done on that silhouette target. So they start at 100 meters, shoot them, uh, prone, and you print two rounds into that five inch kill area and then move forward to 70 and the candidate's got a choice of sitting, kneeling, standing, supported, so, arguably, sticks, yeah, two rounds into that five inch kill area and then they move forward to between 10, 20 meters and then, uh, then this is the another change, uh, which people pick out is that now you've got two dispatch shots that you you take, you have to, you have to um, print two, two rounds into a two inch kill area on the head.

Speaker 2 46:23

Okay, simulating a dispatch shot or two dispatch shots. So, um, so, yeah, I, I think, um, it's still uh, people you hear people saying you know it's, it's too easy, or um, or you know, there's a, there's all sorts of criticisms out there, but um, the thing is, I, I still people, still see people, uh, struggle with it, and it's not just um newbies, um experienced people I was gonna say the, the two shots at 10 or 20 yards.

Speaker 3 46:59

That is, that's understanding the ballistics and the characteristics of your rifle. Because a lot of people zero will be let's say let's, let's say 150 yards. Somebody's got zeroed, so at 100 yards on a 308, for example, it might be an inch high. Well, by the time you come down to 10 yards you may have to hold over or hold under a considerable amount to be able to put that round in that two inch square. And you've got to understand that what your rifle does. And if people don't understand ballistics, basic ballistics, they're not going to be able to pass that.

Speaker 2 47:35

I'm assuming you see that often um, yeah, it's not so much often, but, but but certainly it happens. Um, and I take people out on the range I and I I use that sort of format as um as part of my night's friendship coaching, so like um. So when anyone comes to me, we we do a bit of time with rimfire um, because it's a it's.

Speaker 2 47:59

It's not any cheek, but it's a brilliant um way of building the, the basics yes, of course distance, um, and then, and then I moved to centerfire and we used the, yeah, the dsc1 silhouette target, so, um, so, yeah, I I've seen so the candidates that I've taken through marksmanship coaching that the. The things that I see people struggle with is, um, uh, building it's, building their position properly, um, and positioning themselves behind the sticks, um, and allowing the sticks to do the work, um, and and and then, um, understanding how to manage recoil, um, and then you know, you know it goes. It comes down to, uh, cheek weld as well. You know, creating a site, making sure that your, your eye relief is correct and you've got a good cheek weld, and and, but consistency. So, um, the fun thing about having people on the range is that you can show them things that they're not noticing, that they're doing themselves, and you're, you're, you're kind of pointing different things out to them, say, you do realize you're doing this or that, and, um, and when they start adjusting and actually seeing uh themselves printing round after round, consistently in the same place, you know, for, between positions, you know because, yeah, if you haven't, if you don't understand some of those building blocks, the marksmanship principles, and you know how to apply them, yeah, I do see people print.

Speaker 2 49:35

You know a couple of rounds in a completely different position to in, prone to when they're standing with sticks. And then you know a couple of rounds in a complete different position, so to in, prone to when they're standing the sticks. And then, and then you know they're wondering why those rounds are going high and and, um, and you know then that, or, or actually, why they're going low. Uh, you know, they could, they could be anticipating the shot, uh, or they could be snatching the trigger, and so, yeah, these things happen. And then, of course, when it comes to the dispatch shots, sometimes, um, you know, you, you try, you've got to think about it, you've got to understand.

Speaker 3 50:05

You know where you, yeah, yeah, what your trajectory is doing it's a it's a whole other ball game that that getting up close and personal to sort of that deer, and I think not luckily not a lot of people have to to do that. But there are times when, yeah, if you, you have to be prepared to to go in there and do that yeah, definitely it's.

Speaker 2 50:27

It's a good, it's actually, I think it's. Uh, in my opinion it's, it's a. They're good changes, you know, because, um, to be able to practice that, um, and and, and help run up to a DSC1 course and teach them. You know that one day, yeah, they might have to dispatch a deer at close range and they'll know how to do it.

Speaker 3 50:48

Exactly. Yeah, no, right. So let's now we've covered. Obviously the level one changes. Level two has has changed. Now you were talking about the um, the food hygiene. Obviously the practical, the, the theoretical side is covered in dsc1. But once you've completed your level two you actually get awarded the, the food hygiene and um trained hunter status. Is that right?

Speaker 2 51:13

yeah, um, yeah, basically you're proving that you can. You can do everything practically, which does take um a bit of experience. You know it's not a course, it's uh, it's an assessment.

Speaker 3 51:25

So, um, candidates are expected to go and go away and build experience before putting themselves yeah, the the level two is kind of go and do some stalking kind of thing and then, when you're comfortable and you feel confident, get a witness out and and kind of do it. And then, when you're comfortable and you feel confident, get a witness out and kind of do it that way. Is that that sort of the way I think it should be?

Speaker 2 51:44

Yeah, yeah, definitely, and it's um, yeah, you, you sign up to, uh, to to an assessment center. They, they, they, um, uh, book you onto the system and give you access to an online portfolio and then, yeah, you're right, you go and you go and find an approved witness and and they, they observe you on a raft of criterion yeah, so it's.

Speaker 3 52:07

It's a fairly anybody that's thinking of doing, obviously the dsc2. I think it used to be. It was three stalks, but now it's been reduced down to to one stalk yes, um, yeah.

Speaker 2 52:18

So, um, you're right, it used to be three, it's now, it's now one, um, it's, it's. I mean I, I just my personal opinion. Um, you know, I, I I really enjoy, uh, delivering training, um, and whenever anyone comes to me, um, I, I want to prepare them fully to the point where they are ready to take that that one assessment. And right, I think, um, I think, uh, I mean I've heard someone say, you know when, when, um, talking about uh, dsc2 and the three-to-one stores, you know you don't have to take your driving test more than once.

Speaker 2 53:03

No absolutely, and I think you know, from my perspective, I really enjoy preparing people for the assessment and I'll give them really reliable feedback and I'll say you know you really need to spend some time getting used to taking the head off, or you know you need to learn a bit more about how to get the familiarity, build your familiarity in how to cut, to cut into to the, to the head, to find the, the glands yeah, submaxillary and the, the retropharyngeal, you know, build up a bit of confidence that you can find them every time.

Speaker 3 53:41

And yeah, no, I, and I think that's the thing. I think it probably has made it so that people actually have to take a bit more time and practice to understand where things are, whereas, yeah, you are doing that one assessment to get that, that pass at the end of the day.

Speaker 2 53:56

So it probably is a bit more scrutiny because, yeah, it's, you get one one shot at it really yeah, absolutely, and I, and um, I think, um, I, I think what I'd recommend, uh, you know, just as someone who enjoys taking people through the process, and I, I, it's finding people who, um, can show you how to do things properly, properly, to a high standard, I think. And what I say to people who have gone through, uh, dsc1 with me, you know, having done that course and having been taught best practice in the classroom, and go and get as much experience as you can with as many different people as you can, and hopefully now you'll be able to discern good practice from bad practice. Yeah, um, and you know, just, just take what you know be discerning, take what you, take the good and forget the bad pretty much exactly the same advice I'd give to people.

Speaker 3 54:57

It's like go stalking, come stalking with me, but go start with somebody else, because everybody has a different way of doing it and what what works for me might not work for you, but you see that somebody else does it this way and you go oh that, actually that works. There's no right and wrong, as long as, at the end of the day, you produce a carcass that's fit for the food chain. That's the crux of this. As long as what you finally do and if you're keeping that carcass and you're going to eat it yourself, it's still clean and safe. That's it really, as long as it turns into a nice piece of venison on your plate and you're not going to poison anybody.

Speaker 2 55:41

Happy days days, isn't it really? Yeah, safe, um, hygienic, humane. Yeah, yeah, it's, that's what it's all about. And um, yeah, you're right, there's. There's many different techniques used and um to meet that end goal. Um, and, uh, it's, it's, it's, it's good fun going out and seeing how people do things as well absolutely so.

Speaker 3 55:56

My last bit we're gonna pull you on to is obviously, it's the beginning of the year and everybody's thinking about the show seasons. Um, what shows will you be heading to, or is there a particular one that you're looking forward to?

Speaker 2 56:10

yeah, well, so I think, um, the one I most look forward to, um mixing with people and um, and and and meeting up with dear stalkers, our old faces and you, uh, will be the stalking show. So yeah, in april. Um, it's only been coming a couple of years, I think, hasn't it, but it's a couple of years, but it seems to be the show that it's like-minded people.

Speaker 3 56:34

We all go there because everybody stalks or it's hunter yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 56:40

I mean the. It's a good group of people. It's quite focused on deer stalking, um, which is always good, um, we're quite lucky. We, um, we seem to be quite busy for the years that we've gone. We've been the last couple of years and, uh, and yeah, we'll be there, we'll be there, we'll um the the other things that I suppose we'll be doing, uh, we do a lot of country shows, so in the area so I'm based in yoval, we I I do a bit of a fair bit of stalking in west dorset, um, as there's another uh couple of places around the country, but west dorset is the main bit, and so I try and do a number of country shows around my area because I'm trying to bring people into shooting, into deer stalking and that maybe haven't uh really had thought about it or or found an opportunity fantastic, so so kind of a bit more like the like, a bit of ambassadoring actually at these country shows and kind of showing people.

Speaker 3 57:37

It's not. It's not all about shooting bambi, it's actually there's a, there's a reason for the process yeah, absolutely so.

Speaker 2 57:44

I mean that's one of the main reasons, uh, why we don't do, uh, all of the shooting shows. I mean, the other reason is it's uh, you know, it is mainly me behind the scenes and there's only so much that I can do. But yeah, I do deliberately focus on some of those shows, and Gone Wild with Bear Grylls is another show we've been to.

Speaker 3 58:05

I've seen you've been at that a few times. Has that gone well? Has that produced lots of interest?

Speaker 2 58:13

Yeah, surprisingly actually had produced sort of um, lots of interest. Yeah, it's surprisingly actually, and um. So the there's the fest, it's a festival, and which um is a kind of a celebration of the outdoors. I suppose it could be described as which is uh, which is kind of um, represented by bear grills, as the name suggests, uh, run run by um, by extra raw marines, um, you've got all the raw marine recruiting stands there and they've got the assault course and all kinds of other things going on, and then they've got um, they've got music festival, uh, in the evenings. So it's a family, family festival. But the it's surprising actually, the footfall past my stand and the amount of conversations I have, um and uh with all kinds of people from different dietary persuasions, shall we say um, and I I can't think of a single negative conversation there, despite having, you know, chatting to to various, you know, people, vegans, vegetarians, fantastic that.

Speaker 3 59:09

That that's. That's what it's all about, and and probably you don't it yeah, you've probably got an audience that are receptive and interested to actually hear, rather than you're. You're behind the scenes on the computer, uh, keyboard warriors that are just out there for a fight.

Speaker 2 59:25

At the end of the day, actually, most people are willing to, to listen, at least yeah, I think so, I, I think so, I mean, I think I think it's, um, that's the risk we're spending too much time online on forums. I think so, I, I think so, I mean, I think I think it's, um, that's the risk we're spending too much time online on forums. I think is that you can begin to think that, um, that this is representative of uh of society. It can be quite worrying, um, but yeah, but no, my experience, yes, you do get people who, who are quite uh, fixed-minded, narrow-minded perhaps, but but the majority of people are actually willing to listen.

Speaker 3 59:58

Um yeah, but I think that's the thing. I think if you can find a and that sort of um, if you enjoy what you do and you have a passion about it and you're not ramming it down somebody's throat but you're explaining the situation and all the rest of it, you end up finding that people will actually stop and take the time and have that communication. But if you're there telling them what we're doing is you have to do that, blah, blah, blah it, they puts their back up straight away. So obviously you you must be doing something right if you get people that come and stop and listen and are happy to to pass the time with it yeah, absolutely, I know.

Speaker 2 1:00:34

I mean, I'm really I'm really keen to um, find other ways to get people engaged and and it's um, and the one one thing that I I was pushing at gone while we're bare grills and and I still am pushing is our field to fork experience.

Speaker 2 1:00:49

So, yeah, um, it's kind of an amalgamation of all my my professional experience so far in life, if you like.

Speaker 2 1:00:58

So I'm bringing together all of the kind of the deer management experience and training, delivery and the organization of that, and then my experience in private service as a butler, and what I'm trying to do is deliver a um an experience where people are, um, you know, catered for, uh, wind and dined um, but then we've got the outdoor um elements of the experience where, so, so the winding and dining obviously involves wild game, venison, but then, yeah, yeah, the outdoor modular experience is is built around deer stalking, so no one actually kills anything on on the experience.

Speaker 2 1:01:36

But we've got the, the modular activities. So we're going out wildlife watching, we're taking them onto the range, they're doing some marksmanship coaching and then we're going on a simulated deer stalk on steel targets and then we're into the woods and they break down a carcass um and cook over open flames. Um, they can stay in the woods overnight or go back to the accommodation, um, so, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm trying to reach the the right ears for that experience at the moment, and, um, and, and my target audience is, uh, you know, the city dwellers who maybe haven't had any experience no, and and I, I, I, yeah, wholeheartedly.

Speaker 3 1:02:19

I think I ran a competition, what? Three, four years ago now? Um, and it was just something I did silly, just stuck it up on facebook and said anybody that wants to learn about deer stalking, drop me a message and come to scotland and stalk. Well, it was actually a what was it? I think the first takers were. A friend of mine's sister added me suddenly on facebook. I hope you don't mind, but we'd love to take you up on that. We've never done anything like it. They came up here um, put them on the target. She shot her first deer, um, they, we butchered it out, we sent them home with venison and and from that point on, both of them now, uh, her and her husband are now deer stalkers, um, and they love going out and doing it and it is a true passion that they share together. So it's, it's just things like that. It's simple, little things, but actually being able to, I don't. I would say it's.

Speaker 3 1:03:11

I think a lot of new people come into the game and they struggle because you go and pay to go stalking and a lot of outfitters thanks very much, they'll drive you out. Oh, we're going to walk down here. There's a deer, shoot it, bang in the car back, that's it, job done, you're off home and nobody gets anything from that. They've, they've kind of oh, it was a bit quick, I've done my stalk, or I've been out for a few hours and we've shot something, but to actually go through the whole process, so I got them straight away. I was like, right, I'm going to take one leg off, you're going to take the next one off, don't worry if you don't get the flat joint, but that's what I'm aiming for.

Speaker 3 1:03:47

And once you and and yeah, it takes a bit of time, but there's no rush. This deer, it's not going anywhere. You've got all the time in the world to do this and, and it's just things like that that allow them to, to get that full experience. So, yeah, offering sort of a full field to fork, breaking it down, they can at least go back and sit in the pub, can't they? And they can say to people well, I know a good piece of venison, and here, this is stuff we've, we've brought home yeah, absolutely no, is it?

Speaker 2 1:04:17

well, it's, um, it's service delivery, isn't it at its heart? It's, uh, it's, it's knowing how to deliver a good service. And I, and I think, um, I think that's certainly something I've learned a hell of a lot about. You know, in, in private service, um, you know the difference between you know just in and out the door to some. You know, yeah, all special and and, and also, um, you know getting a lot from there.

Speaker 3 1:04:51

We've learned, I've it's the same on the hill. You get somebody up to go stalking a big stag. Yeah, you could rush them up to the hill. Yeah, you could put them on a deer. They pull the trigger. Thanks you much. You, you will go back down to the pub and the ghillie will do all the work.

Speaker 3 1:05:04

But actually they want to come in, they want to take that time, savor that moment. Look at the animal they've got taking the environment and that's something this year. That sort of tom and I have really worked hard on and every client you can see it. They've. They've come off the hill with such a smile on their face and the whole experience has has worked for them. It's, it's been great, all right. The ones that maybe didn't come off the smart with with a smile, because we're up there in a red weather warning and we were soaking wet and we dragged two stags out the back of a corrie. But at the end of the day, they'll never forget that day. That's the main thing. It's a story. Everybody's had a story. There's no stalk has been. Get out the argo. There's a deer, shoot it. Get back in the argo. We'll drive down again. Everybody has has had to work for, for what they've, what they've taken off the hill yeah, absolutely no definitely perfect.

Speaker 3 1:05:56

Well, I think we've probably exhausted all all my questions I had for you, um, so, yeah, thank you ever so much for your time. It's, uh, it's been spot on. And if anybody's looking, go and see him at the stalking show or go visit. I'll put links of your website and, uh, your instagram page. Go visit, give them a follow. And, yeah, if you're new into stalking, dear central ben, will ben will guide you through.

Speaker 2 1:06:22

I think you even travel potentially, if there's a group that wants a dsc one I do, I deliver training um our, our training locations at the moment are hereford Bisley National Shooting Centre up there just on the outskirts of London, yeah, and down here in Dorset, somerset, and then down in Devon. So but yeah, I do, I do deliver one to one tuition and yeah, people can contact me and and inquire on that too well, definitely, definitely worth it.

Episode Wrap-up and Contact Info

Speaker 3 1:06:56

So, anybody listening to this, that's keen. Uh, and you want to know more? Uh, either dropping a message, dropping a dm or something like that. Uh, he's very good at getting back to you and uh, yeah, you'll, you'll, you'll, you'll definitely learn something from it. So thank you very much, ben. No problem at all, superb, no worries. So thanks for listening again to that podcast. If you you want to know more, get on over to the Deer Central website. You can also find Ben either on Facebook or on Instagram.

Speaker 3 1:07:41

As I said, he's very good at responding to his messages. Drop him a note and he'll get back to you If you're going to any of the shows again, he's obviously going to be there. So you've got a good chance of catching up with him. But word of warning, warning. The stand is normally very busy, so if you want to have a long chat, you might have to wait in line because there will be a lot of people wanting to talk to him. As I say, the quickest method is to just drop him a message. Anyway, thanks for listening again and we will catch you in the next one.