The Outdoor Gibbon
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The Outdoor Gibbon
29 The Scandinavian Approach: A Conversation with Beatrice the Hunting Psychologist
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Discover the fascinating world of Swedish hunting through the eyes of Beatrice, known as "the hunting psychologist" on Instagram, as she shares her journey and the unique aspects of Scandinavian hunting culture.
The conversation begins with a striking revelation about Sweden's comprehensive hunting qualification system. Unlike the UK's relatively open approach, Swedish hunters face rigorous theoretical and practical examinations before receiving their hunting permits. Beatrice walks us through the process of obtaining not just a hunting license but also the surprisingly stringent requirements for owning a hunting dog – a process she describes as "almost like a job interview."
What truly shines through is Beatrice's passion for hunting with pointing dogs. Her voice brightens as she describes the almost magical quality of watching a dog go completely still on point – "That pointing gene just never stops to amaze me." This connection between hunter, dog, and quarry forms the emotional core of her hunting experience, revealing how similar passions transcend national boundaries and regulatory differences.
The podcast takes a thought-provoking turn when discussing the ethics of social media content around hunting. Beatrice advocates for thoughtful representation that goes beyond "just dead animals in awkward positions," emphasizing the importance of storytelling and showing proper respect for harvested animals. This perspective offers valuable insight for hunters navigating the delicate balance of authentically sharing their experiences while considering how non-hunters might perceive their content.
Perhaps most fascinating is the discussion of wildlife management challenges, particularly Sweden's wolf reintroduction program and its unforeseen consequences. As wolves specifically target hunting dogs, many hunters avoid releasing their dogs in wolf territories, creating unhunted zones where game populations grow unchecked. This complex interplay between conservation decisions, hunting practices, and wildlife populations demonstrates how even well-intentioned policies can have unexpected ripple effects.
Ready to explore more international hunting perspectives? Subscribe to the Outdoor Gibbon podcast for more conversations that bridge hunting cultures and share diverse approaches to wildlife conservation and ethical hunting practices.
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thehuntingpsychologist?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=ZDNlZDc0MzIxNw==
Introduction and UK Hunting Update
Speaker 2Hello and welcome to the Outdoor Gibbon podcast, episode 29,. Hunting in Sweden with Beatrice, also known as the hunting psychologist, on Instagram. So I thought it was about time that we actually got a chance to look how the Scandinavians do their hunting, which is different to the way that we hunt in the UK. So I had a good chat with Beatrice and hopefully you'll enjoy that. But anyway, before we go into that podcast, let's just have a quick look at what's going on.
Speaker 2The roebucks are coming on beautifully up here. Lots of nice potential deer. They're all in velvet at the moment, but I feel that this roebuck season could be a good one, definitely. Lots of my neighbors are posting very good pictures on their social media with some absolute fantastic trail cam footage. It's very difficult to tell, obviously, whether that buck will be perfect, especially when it's in velvet, because in velvet they look massive. But as soon as that all comes off, things all change. But hopefully it'll be a good season. It just depends whether the weather plays ball and we'll we'll see how it gets on. I know we had a fantastic stag season this year and already there's a lot of stags out there with well, they'll all be shedding their antlers at the moment and then regrowing, but from what we saw at the end of the season there should be some potentially fantastic beasts on the hill this year.
Speaker 2Some other things we could look at is price of game. We are seeing prices of pheasant poults dropping quite considerably. I think I've seen prices down at £5.50. Now if you're buying a poulte, that obviously does make a huge difference. It does mean that you can probably buy a few more for your shoot. Whether or not these big shoots will offer that discount to the guns, who knows? The price is rose but, as with all things, once the price goes up, sometimes that price never comes back down. I believe the price of wheat barley, even gas, has come down. So, realistically, hopefully the savings will get passed on to the shooters. Otherwise there's going to be a lot of shoots out there that are making some good money this year out of you guys that are going out to to shoot pheasants.
Speaker 2Now, with a very close time frame before I'm actually going to be at the stalking show, I decided we might give it a little bit of something extra. Going to run a couple of? Well, we're going to run a competition at the stalking show. I decided we might, uh, give it a little bit of something extra. Gonna run a couple of. Well, we're gonna run a competition at the stalking show. Uh, come along, fill in the form, drop it in the box and we'll probably draw it, either on the sunday night or I might draw it later on in the week. We'll do like a live video draw. But, uh, there's going to be some good prizes two or three prizes at least. Uh, potentially something that you're either going to be some good prizes two or three prizes at least, potentially something that you're either going to be able to take away with you, or maybe a day on the hill or something like that. I haven't quite decided exactly what we're doing, but watch this space and I'm sure we'll announce it soon enough on, probably, our Instagram feed and Facebook page.
Beatrice's Journey into Hunting
Speaker 2In other news, if you haven't had a chance yet, then head on over to the Hunter Gatherer Cooking YouTube channel and there's a couple of videos he's produced. He was up here again. We went out for some roe and then he chased me around the hill with a camera trying to keep up with me while we went out to get some hinds in the snow. Absolutely fantastic watch. Uh, thoroughly suggest you go and look at them. And obviously, if you've not seen the others, scroll back and have a look at his first red stag up on the hill with me and the grouse days and some of the other lead up to it. But uh yeah, if that's something that's uh interest, you do that. We've also got a YouTube channel, so if you are listening to us via the YouTube page, please give us a like and subscribe and share it to all your friends as well hello and welcome to the outdoor gibbon.
Speaker 2Today we are here with beatrice. She is a swedish huntress and is going to basically tell us a bit about the different hunting in different parts of the world. How are you doing?
Speaker 3Hi, I'm fine. Thank you, and how are you?
Speaker 2Very good, thank you Very good.
Speaker 3So yeah, let's talk about how you kind of got into hunting, and it's a bit different to the rest of the world to the UK anyway, yeah, sure. So let me just start with how I got into hunting, because, you know, I found it a lot later in life. A lot of people are born into it, but I wasn't. Instead, in a way, my husband introduced me, not, you know, in the normal way, suggesting I should get a hunting license, but instead he started by convincing me we needed a hunting dog. That was our way into it and that's, you know. In the end, I started so. So we had a dog, a hunting dog, in in 2017, okay, and I just started taking part in this practice.
Speaker 2Immediately, and just one year later, I I had my hunting exams and and already had my, my first gun oh wow, so fairly quick follow-on from getting a dog to suddenly you've got everything, all the tickets and ready to go yeah, it was, you know, a fast process.
Speaker 3Uh, after getting the dog.
Speaker 2Getting the dog was not a fast process, but after that so do you have to have a specific license then to have have a dog?
Speaker 3no, but it's, uh, it's quite a big, it's. It's hard to uh to get access to hunting dogs. You know you have to, in a way, show that you're gonna hunt with them and, uh, you know, to be reasonable owners. So so we had multiple interviews. It was, like you know, almost like a job interview okay, I see so, yeah.
Speaker 2So basically they don't want that dog just becoming a pet, they actually want that dog to to work yeah.
Speaker 3So I worked with you know a lot of amazing breeders and they really make sure you know that their dogs and their offcomings get get the life that they're bred for. You know absolutely so.
Speaker 2What, what, what breed of dog have you, did you go for?
Speaker 3uh, we have, uh, the small mil slender, okay, so, uh, and we actually have two now, but, uh, but we started with one, uh, so that is seven years from now so I always know. You know how long did I hunt? It's the same age as my oldest dog.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely years yeah and that dog's primary function, obviously out when you're out hunting is is it a bird dog? Is it a tracking dog? What do you? What are you mainly using it for?
Speaker 3well, he's a generalist dog, um, so he is the mainly a pointing dog. That's what they're bred for. But you know the small mincel and really is. You know, it's a pointing dog with a lot of extras oh fantastic, oh brilliant, and people can.
Speaker 2Obviously I'll put a link to it, but they can actually go and see your dog.
Speaker 3It's on your instagram feed and things like that it's a lot of dog related material on my instagram fantastic I realized that no, no, well, that's, but that's what it's all about.
Swedish Hunting Permits Explained
Speaker 2It's about sharing the the experience, and we'll come on to talk about social media and Instagram a bit later on. Let's talk about, obviously, something that's quite different to for our UK listeners is you have to go down the route of achieving a hunting permit and basically proving that you're able to hunt. Can you kind of explain that for everybody?
Speaker 3Sure, and this is you know, explaining. This is new to me as well. I've done it, but I always thought this was you know the process in the entire world. But you know we have a hunting permit. That it's you know. It requires a lot to get. Yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3And then also the gun permit, and those are separate okay so it's not the same thing, but let's start with the hunting permit in sweden first. You, you have this theoretical exam, so so I, like most people, I started off there just reading a lot about uh, not just hunting you know it's about. You know the law around hunting and dogs and all the different game and, and really a large part of you know the conservation part of it that's required to to even get a license.
Speaker 3So I did that, and then you have to do, you know, a theoretical exam, uh, but also, um, we have a lot of practical exams, you know of course, shooting um is, is a big part of it, but with a shotgun and a rifle, uh.
Speaker 3So we do a lot of different targets that we have to get passed on. So shotgun it's the clays and also like a simulated running rabbit. So we do that. And then they also have this kind of gun handling safety type of test, and that is, you know, you don't have to shoot, but you have to walk like through a course where you need to try and tell the distance to different game. And also make a decision. Would you take the shot or not? Is it too far or is it you know?
Speaker 2safe, backstop and and exactly all of those things.
Speaker 3Yeah and also you know crossing different um, like a ditch with the gun, then they want you to. You know open it and and you know cross ditch in a safe way.
Speaker 2So it's really a practical and so once you, once you've done all of the, the theoretical part and past that and the practical work, then you are. That. That gets you your, your hunting permit. Did you say?
Speaker 3exactly, yes, that's the hunting like. It's like a license that you're allowed to hunt now is that.
Speaker 2Does that last forever, or do you have to do more exams in a few years time?
Speaker 3No, it lasts forever, but most hunting teams make you do a shooting test each year.
Speaker 2Okay, wow.
Speaker 3So it's not. You know it's not mandatory, but most of the teams I do it each year because you know it. It's gonna stop me at some point uh hunting if I don't yeah absolutely so.
Speaker 2And that shooting test, because I believe you do the driven. Uh, obviously, with the driven shoots you have moose targets that move and things like that exactly okay, yeah, that's the famous moose test yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3No, I'm sorry, we have a a move on 80 meters, that moves fairly quickly so we, we need yeah, exactly we need um to be sure on, on, yeah, the lead that's uh, that type of things, yes I suppose the uk we're very much. Everything stands still before you shoot it, so all our targets are stationary and stuff, yes, in rifle shooting, but you know you do a lot of shotgun shooting.
Speaker 2So we do, yeah, yeah and that's not stationary yeah, but you see, there's no. There's no requirement for a permit to have a shot for shotgun. Shooting for going out to shoot game anybody.
Speaker 3You can give them a shotgun and take them out to shoot at pheasants and partridge no no permits required wow yeah well, actually, you, you are allowed in sweden to to guide someone that doesn't have, you know, the the hunting license, but that is, you know, very strictly regulated and and they basically it's like test driving on your license, so people don't take it lightly right, right, I see, see, that that's well.
Speaker 2That's kind of good, because I think that's the thing we do a lot of, that test that you you spoke about, but it's it's not compulsory. It's up to you whether you want to, in the uk, go on and get further education, but obviously for yourself in sweden that's kind of compulsory before you can actually do the hobby you want to do definitely and then, obviously, you spoke about the, the firearms permit that's going to be similar to ours, basically licensing the rifle you can have, etc.
Speaker 3Etc exactly you leave. That's up to the police to to deem if you're fit to hold a gun yeah, okay, that's that.
Speaker 2So that kind of answers my questions there for explaining to people about the hunting permit. So let's, let's move on, obviously, because you you shoot both shotgun and rifle. What's your favorite type of hunting?
The Psychology of Hunting on Social Media
Speaker 3oh, um, this is a hard question for me, uh, and I've had this question a lot and I think I've answered it. You know, differently each time, it can change through the season though it. Can it really? Can you know? In the end it's it's always going to be hunting with dogs like a broad concept, but then you know, back in 2017, I just completely fell for hunting over pointing dogs. That is to me, you know, absolutely magic and that pointing gene. It just never stops to amaze me.
Speaker 2It is fantastic to watch a dog.
Speaker 3How did we breed that?
Speaker 2yeah, no, I, I don't know it's but it is. It's when you say, having a pointer and watching it, just go completely still and watch and literally when you tell it, it steps in and whatever's there, flies, it's. And yeah, we had a few pointers this year out on the grouse and again it's. It's that moment of watching them work and then suddenly the grouse pop and fly and yeah, you really can't beat it no, I, in my opinion you can't, and you know it's from such an early age they start to point.
Speaker 3It's not something that I learn or teach them, just the pointing part, with a lot of other things that I have to learn or teach them, but but just that pointing. I can't believe how, how did we breed that? I just can't get my head around it you, you do.
Speaker 2It does make you think that obviously in the packs or whatever they were working as there must have been, this dog that would would go in and do that, and maybe there was other parts of the the pack, that would be the fast dog that would chase out and and try and catch the the game yeah, yeah, because I mean already from.
Speaker 3You know the puppy stage. They, they do that pointing thing, um, obviously with the rattling leaf or something yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's it focused on. Yeah, so it was also, you know, the the first type of hunting that I that I started with, okay, so, um, yeah, it has a special place in my heart so so it is.
Speaker 2It's definitely sort of pointing dogs over with with with game, basically that's.
Speaker 3That's your favorite sort of hunter yeah, that's synergy, you know, with the dog.
Speaker 2Yeah, and that that's working mostly for you. That's going to be with a, with a shotgun yeah, exactly okay.
Speaker 2So this now kind of leads us really nicely on to a, to the next sort of area I was looking at, because obviously you have an Instagram page with fantastic photos, but you also talk about the psychology of hunting in there. So let's sort of say, let's have a look at. I think you you wrote an article or there was an article that I noticed, hence the reason we're having this chat. It was something about posting stuff on social media and in the importance of of what you do and how you post stuff. So do you want to sort of talk a bit more about that?
Speaker 3yeah, um, I did this article and it was an interview with one of the swedish hunting newspapers, and I talk about the importance of you know posting content that that matters to you and that you know I have a hard time, you know putting it right. But, but I don't want to restrict people and how they express themselves on social media. But, yeah, you know, when I started the Instagram page, I quickly started following a lot of accounts and my feed instantly filled up with a lot of pictures of just dead animals in awkward positions. No backstory, nothing, just you know, today I shot another animal and here's the awkward position, uh, and that's it can be. You know, uh, something that people are interested in if you're an avid hunter, but if you try to put on you know, other glasses, uh, you know more neutral, not hunting glasses, that's. That's gonna sting a bit, you know so what?
Speaker 3I try to argue is that we, uh, you know, show the animal some respect by, like, telling the story behind the hunting, or do a nice picture, you know, try and and capture something, something else than just you know where the animal dropped and how it dropped you know, yes, no, I agree yeah so. So that was, you know, a part at least of what I argued.
Speaker 2Yeah I, I think, I think social media. Well, I think, as hunters, we have a huge responsibility in how we portray the, the animal we've taken. And I think back to when I first started and pictures were exactly that where the animal dropped. You took a picture.
Speaker 2Oh look what I've shot yeah but as you, I think as you probably get older and we have noticed this, you we spend more time setting that picture up. So, for example, one of the stags that maybe one of my clients has taken this year, it's set up with a magnificent backdrop, nothing else in it, so it still gives the animal that absolute grandeur of what it is actually a bit like a process, just, you know, to do that setting.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it doesn't take long, but it just means you've given the game a huge amount of respect and you actually get a fantastic photo out of it.
Hunting with Dogs and Equipment
Speaker 3Yeah, exactly, and also you know there's a lot of pictures of just dead animals, but there's also some pictures, you know, where people tend to sit on the animal or, you know, do really weird things. I mean, you just shot an animal or taken a life. You didn't conquer Rome.
Speaker 2No, absolutely Don't make it weird no, absolutely weird. Yeah, and I think that's that's kind of important. It's it's to make sure that, especially as I think, as hunters, we are being so scrutinized by all of the media platforms we have to be so careful yeah, I, I think that was something else you mentioned.
Speaker 2It's um, we're seeing more and more. Just because you might post something with a hashtag that says gun or stalker or something like that, all of a sudden you have a media block and nobody can see what you're doing I've had this, you know, restricted reach for pretty much the whole autumn right like constant.
Speaker 3You know, if I have one picture reported and then maybe I take it down, then the second I take it down, two other pictures get stuck. You know I've had this, I just can't seem to get rid of it do you?
Speaker 2do you think it's something to do with um? Possibly that? Okay, how would I word this? Obviously you're a female hunter. Do you think you get more more issues with um hatred being a female hunter than, for example, myself being a male hunter on social media?
Speaker 3well, it could be. I mean, I I'm not sure why I get stuck so much right it's either, you know, the ai just realizing that my pic, my pictures, usually contain a gun, and then they scan me, uh, but I have a feeling someone is reporting me and it could be, you know, um, I mean different roles, female or male roles, and, and you know, a female huntress could perhaps elicit other feelings that's one of the things I've always asked because yeah, we do.
Speaker 2We do see that the ladies seem to get more abuse on social media than probably, probably the men, and I think it's completely wrong, but unfortunately it seems like you guys get targeted more than we do.
Speaker 3I feel very targeted right now but but you know, I actually meet a lot of weird assumptions, not only from people you know against hunting, but also some actual hunters, and I repeatedly get asked because I do a lot of dog handling and a lot of beating and I repeatedly get asked if I hunt okay and, and to me that is just, you know, such a mind-boggling question.
Speaker 3I don't have a good answer to it. Uh, I don't have, you know, a good comeback, but you know, standing there in full um, hunting clothing and with a rifle on my back, and get the question, but do you hunt? I see you do a lot of dog handling, but do you hunt? Wow, okay, yeah, yeah, well in my mind I do, but that's that's kind of the thing I think we need to broaden.
Speaker 2You know that the concept of hunting, yeah, I, I think, I think it's still, it's still kind of stuck that there is a certain age group where it's still very much. This was the way it was and has been, and it hasn't really moved forward. I think the new generation, the younger people, are coming into it.
Speaker 2It doesn't matter whether you're male or female, everybody's accepted into the hunting world now yeah, yeah but I think there's an older generation that are still stuck um, stuck in the past almost that's what we're doing waiting for the generation shift to take place but do you find there's? There's problems in obviously in sweden now with with more anti-hunting people, people showing uh sort of a negative side to the hunting um, we, we actually have a really big uh group in sweden.
Speaker 3Well, most people are for hunting, okay, but we have a small group that are against it and they are, you know, they make a lot of noise, they're really loud, so they're not big in numbers, but they make a lot of noise. They get a lot of media attention because they make a lot of noise. You know they have a great news value in that kind of and and you also have this really small group, but they're, you know, in a militant kind of way. They try to target hunters and they try to report them to the police.
Speaker 2They try to sabotage hunting meetings and and hunts and okay, so we have them in sweden, but they're really few in numbers so we have the biggest problem we have is we have the the hunt issues with the fox hunting, so they would come out and and do the sabotage. But actually 90 percent of our pheasant days and things like that go without a hitch and we don't have major problems there.
Speaker 3But if, as soon as you mention the word fox and hunting or is that you know all foxes, or is it the the specific kind of hunting where we hunt them with?
Speaker 2you know dogs and and that would have been the old-fashioned dogs and horses that, yeah, which doesn't happen anymore. It well, it does, but they only chase a um, a scent, so like a rag or something like that, that smells of fox and a guy drives around on a quad bike yeah but they still, they still cut, they still come out and uh and and try and sabotage those days of people just having a good, good ride in the countryside okay it's, it's.
Speaker 2It's very, very strange, but that it's, it's entertainment for everybody and it's just.
Speaker 3It's just sad, but I suppose um society has changed dramatically, with people that live in the cities not understanding how the countryside works truly yeah, and and I actually had this weird experience a couple of days ago, because recently not recently, but the last couple of years I've only had, you know I've based all my meat consumption on venison.
Speaker 2Okay.
Speaker 3And before that I ate, you know, cow and pig, but for a couple of days ago I tried to have how do you call it? Cow meat, right, meat from a cow and I could really taste how do you call it?
Speaker 2cow meat, Right Meat from a cow. And.
Speaker 3I could really taste the cow. It didn't taste like neutral meat anymore, it tasted cow, and venison to me has shifted and became the neutral taste. Yes, yes. Falao, or red deer, or roe oh fantastic.
Speaker 2You sound like you live a very similar lifestyle to us. That's all pretty much. My children just have venison. Whether it's a burger, whether it's a sausage, it's always venison really for them everyone to do this, because not everyone has, you know, the access to it.
Speaker 3But but in in the cities, you know we live and I've lived, you know, in in I'm from stockholm originally um, you really don't have a relationship to food anymore. No, it's just a package, it's, you know, something to get from, maybe the store, probably driven home to with the fedora. You know the, the home delivery system yeah, yeah, no, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2I. I think that's we. I think I've just talked about this many times, but there is a big disconnect that children no longer actually know where meat comes from. They see a cow or a pig or a chicken on the farm in a picture book or on the tv or on or instagram or something like that, but they don't understand that when it's a package in the supermarket, that that was. They can't relate the two together, they just have no idea no and of course that's the the case.
Speaker 3They've never seen. You know the process no and it's, it's a really you know it's a complicated process. So how, just reading about it it's not gonna. It's gonna take a time, you know a long time, before they actually grasp that no, absolutely.
Speaker 2And the thing about it is, I think we, we, we almost put um like a cover over the eyes, so we don't want these, these images, our children to see a cow go through a slaughterhouse or something like, because it isn't a pretty sight when it goes in. But doing processing a deer is actually. It can be a very clean, very educational process that that isn't gruesome at all no, exactly, it's all in.
Speaker 3You know the, the context and how you put, put it right.
Speaker 2Yeah, no, I, I think, as hunters, we're definitely in a minority, um, but we, we need to uh, we do need to to work carefully and and and again it goes back to what you post on the internet and yeah and be very careful how you post it and post almost educational every time yeah, yeah, I try to do that, and I think I see a lot of people doing that, so so there's definitely there is a lot
Speaker 2of good content as well yes, yeah, there's definitely a few people that you would go. Well, I wouldn't have posted that, but, to be honest, most of the people that are are doing their best and have have quite a large following are actually doing a fantastic job of actually posting educational posts exactly, yeah so that's good. Now you were you. You managed to get yourself over onto, I think, um. Was it aimpoint their, their training, court school or education program? The shooting academy yeah, yeah, how did that come about?
Speaker 3uh, I applied first of all, so they, uh, they did this, you know, in the in the spring, where we had the possibility to apply, and you know, aimpoint for me is you know, that's the first site I ever bought and I actually I before hunting, I was part in the army for a bit and we also use, you know, in the Swedish army I'm not sure about the british one, but but in the swedish army we use aim points. So to me that is, you know, um, square one, it's a, it's a product you, you know of, yeah absolutely yeah and and uh.
Wolf Reintroduction Challenges
Speaker 3So first thing I did when I bought a rifle was also to pair it with an aim point. So, and and uh, I really enjoy driven hunting, obviously with the dogs. And hunting with dogs, you know, and dog handling. To me there's a safety aspect of being able to take shots. Most of the time it's you know the, the short distances, yeah, but with the name point, I can have both eyes open, I get to see, you know, the whole specter of of what's happening and I can see, you know the animal if I have to take a shot, and where the dog is and what they're doing. Uh, so to me, um, you know, hunting with the name, I do it 90 of the time. But then they had, they made, you know, um, they advertised this shooting academy where we had the opportunity to just meet up and do a lot of shooting training, really.
Speaker 2Oh cool, because you had people from all over the world there.
Speaker 3By the look of it, yeah, yeah, and some British people as well.
Speaker 2Yeah, no, I've been talking to. I think it's George who went over and things like that. So we've had a good, we've had a good natter about stuff, but it did seem like a quite an exciting time definitely, and to me one of the first, you know, really, international hunting events that I went to.
Speaker 3It was in sweden but, you know, with a lot of international guests and you know, naturally we we all discussed, you know, trying to find differences and similarities with hunting and you know it is a lot more similarities, you know worldwide, than it is differences.
Speaker 2Yeah, no, I think the only probably the only guys that would have had a difference? Are the guys from the uk that, uh, that basically we don't do driven driven game really no yeah that that's.
Speaker 2I think that would probably be the only bit that would have been majorly different, because I think the rest of europe and the rest of the world driven game is still kind of one of those things that that happens it is, yeah, yeah, it's a big thing so because they obviously I think tika was there advertising rifle or giving demonstrations on their rifles yeah, we did the Tika rifle and Beretta shotguns okay, beretta shotguns yeah so that that leads me nicely to the next question is what sort of rifle do you do you have? Do you have a Tika, or do you have something different?
Speaker 3I had a Tika. I started out with a Tika T3X Lite I think it's called. And I absolutely loved it. You know, I really did. But the thing is I walk a lot in the forest Right and for some reason I want to carry it on my let's see now left shoulder.
Speaker 2Okay.
Speaker 3Most people, I think, carry it on the right, but when I carry it on the left shoulder, it lies in a way on my back. That it, you know it undoes the um uh. It, you know it opens opens the bolt exactly. Thank you, uh, and that's. You know that's not a good thing because I have, you know, bullet in it when I'm moving yeah, and it.
Speaker 3Never, you know, post a real threat, but just having that feeling of I'm not sure if my, my gun is open or closed, I don't know if I have, you know, a branch sticking through it okay because you know, I walked through a lot of shrubbery, so I, uh I recently switched to uh a blaser r93. Instead they have this manual cocking system and it's, yeah, a lot more height in a way we've had a lot of guests this year come out to the.
Speaker 2The hill for stags and and blaser seem to be a lot of people's choice. It's that funny pushing the, pushing the, the, what they call a safety or the cocking system yeah, I find just just so strange, but that's probably because I'm still a tika shooter and uh, and that's just the way it is you know and, and I really think you know, just in a hunting situation you're a lot, I'm a lot faster.
Speaker 3Uh, with the tika. You know I'm doing the safety button yes but then I'm a lot faster um doing the repetition with the blaster because of the straight pull of the blaster. Yeah, absolutely so, pluses and minuses, it's a really you know hard push or you know the button is really.
Speaker 2Well, it is kind of cocking the the mechanism, isn't it? Yeah, as you push up it we, we discussed this it isn't really a safety. It's actually when. That's that, so on. I'll explain to our listeners. Obviously, the blazer rifle has this big button on the back that looks like a safety catch, but as you push it up, you're actually physically cocking the firing pin and then, once that's engaged, that's it, you're good to shoot and you can keep shooting because it's it's cocked all the time. At that point, yeah, okay, fantastic. So, and what caliber are you shooting?
Speaker 3308 ah good yeah, stay with it, yeah good caliber. Yeah, very much, I'm used to it and I just feel, like you know, I don't know a lot about calibers, so I found one that I'm, you know, comfortable with.
Speaker 2I'm gonna stay and stick with it it does exactly and actually you know, probably for you driven game and all the rest of it, the 308 is probably absolutely perfect. You don't have to worry about the the big loopy trajectory that the bullet does.
Speaker 3It just does exactly what you want it to do yeah, exactly, and I mean I shoot most game with it.
Speaker 2I shoot foxes and moose fantastic, does the job so it does the job yeah so obviously hunting season I think is is drawn to a close in Sweden now. Yes, it is.
Speaker 3Or are you still?
Speaker 2finished.
Speaker 3We always have something to hunt. It's never really closed. You know we have boar and so we always have and some stocking still fellow and hare hunting, but the driven season with most loose dogs is is closed.
Speaker 2right, with my dogs it's close so to me this is kind of a low season period, okay, yeah so do you have access to to going to places to shoot boar and and fallow and stuff like that?
Speaker 3I do, uh, I do, um. So I've done some stalking now in last couple of weeks. But you know, to me it's that's kind of like a way to to calm down because you know the driven season when we we travel a lot, we we travel with dogs, and you know there's you know these huge gatherings and a lot of people in the forests.
Speaker 3That's it's so exciting but it's also kind of stressful yes, it can be, uh, and then you know, to just be you out in the forest looking for game stalking. That is just, you know, so much more peaceful in a way. So I'm really enjoying that part of hunting it.
Speaker 2It's been many conversations I've had with with many fellow hunters. It's it's that moment that you can go out into the forest and actually switch off. You can always put your phone away and everything just slows down yeah, exactly so it's, um, it is, so it is. That's really good. And do you live in the city or do you live on the outskirts of the city? Or how easy is it for you to get to your hunting grounds?
Speaker 3Well, it's fairly easy. I live on the outskirts, so in a house, but fairly close to one of the biggest cities.
Speaker 2But you know takes.
Speaker 3It doesn't take more than we actually have fallow, you know, just outside the house. But it's not my, it's not my hunting ground, but I can, at least I can watch them. You know the dogs, the dogs really love them, but it's maybe an hour mac tops to drive. Oh, that's, that's not too bad. And do you share that hunting ground with people? Or is that private land you can go on to?
Speaker 2no, that's not too bad, and do you share that hunting ground with people, or is that private land that you can go on to?
Speaker 3no, it's not private land.
Speaker 2I share them the land with a hunting team okay, right, and and because that that's something again that that would be different for for guys in the uk that are listening, because some people we have our own, like I have a lot of land that, yeah, only I can shoot them, so I go there and I've got my road to shoot at, but other people will be like similar to you, as a hunting team, like part of a what we call a syndicate here, so they'd they'd have to organize going out and saying they'd like to go shooting this weekend or something like that, and make sure nobody else is on the land yeah, exactly so I do that.
Speaker 3I don't own any land in that way some people do in sweden and you don't have access and also hunt. But most people who own land and they rent it to us okay, right so so, and sometimes they may be a part of the syndicate, but you know a lot of land and definitely in the south of Sweden. You need a lot of hunters to take care of the land. You know you're not going to be able to do it on your own. You need more people, more hunters.
Speaker 2You need to give them hunts.
Speaker 3You know you're not not gonna be able to stock and conserve.
Speaker 2You know the population in a good way so your game population actually in sweden is is very healthy.
Speaker 3It's very high, I take it it's very differing, you know, in different areas, so some areas we have, you know, overpopulated areas and you know, in other places know overpopulated areas and you know, in other places it's underpopulated.
Speaker 3So it's very, very different. You know we recently introduced, you know, more wolves in Sweden and you know the populations where the wolves have made, you know, packs. It's shifting really fast and we don't really know what's going to happen. You know, we can only, you know see it in real time, but it's hard to predict how it's going to.
Speaker 2So the introduction of wolf. Is that an incentive to try to reduce the population of game, or was that some other government?
Speaker 3idea, that's the government idea, that the wolf is a part of swedish fauna and it's needed, you know to well, not not needed more. You know it has a right to be here, kind of way and we need, if it's gonna be here, we need them. You know the the pack to be um in a healthy. You know, if they breed, we need it to be not so inbred.
Speaker 2So so we need a minimum amount of wolves so they don't go sick, you know right so that's kind of the the, the reason why they they try to increase the number so are wolves at the moment protected from being hunted or are they on the get on the on the game list?
Speaker 3uh both both yes and yes you know they are protected, uh, but we hunt them to some extent, but it's really, you know, complicated. It's a whole process of applying and, and you know, the, the governments are you? Know very involved in it.
Wildlife Management and Conservation Issues
Speaker 2I understand, yeah, because there's some parts of the world where wolves have just been reintroduced and the the penalty for if you went out because it was in your back garden and you shot it the chap said I'd get longer in prison for this than the murder in some ways it's it's very you know hard punishments in doing that hunting crimes yeah, it's currently a hot topic because there's there's in there's thought to have wolves introduced back into scotland.
Speaker 2Um, purely to, they believe, to try and control the red deer number. But uh, I we don't think that would work. They're probably more sheep than than actual anything else yeah, yeah they met domestic. I think wolves have a nasty habit as well. They like domestic dogs, that seems to be.
Speaker 3They do, and that's you know, when you ask hunters in sweden, I'm not well. The media portray us as, either, you know, heavily against or heavily for the wolf, and I'm neither. You know, I'm not against the wolf. It of course it has a right to be here, but, um, introducing you know a large number of wolves where there's also a large number of cattle, there's a large number of people living, there's a large number of hunting grounds where you need to hunt with dogs. That's the only way to regulate the stock. That's the only way we get enough numbers to regulate the stock. That's the only way we get enough numbers. Uh, wolves have this nasty habit of you know they they don't feel threatened by the dog and try to protect themselves from the dog. They feel threatened by the dogs when they hunt because they're a threat to um the food sources so they target.
Speaker 3They really target dogs. They try to find dogs and target them and kill them. So we have a lot right now, uh, dogs getting killed by, by wolves these are family members yeah, no people did, it's yeah I.
Speaker 2I heard that the wolves have become quite clever, I'm sure they are, they are and they work out the dog, they'll they'll hear the dog, because obviously sometimes the dog will will run in and will will bark and and the wolf. Now, realizes that when the dog is barking or baying at, example, a moose or something like that, it knows to go straight for that dog and that's it.
Speaker 3It's got a, it's got a meal at the end of the day yeah, yeah, so, uh, and, and as an effect of that, you know I I don't release my dogs close to places where I know there's um wolves okay and a lot of people don't right so those places don't get hunted, you know yeah so you know it's not just, you don't just introduce the wolves, you're also going to retract. You know, the, the people hunting, uh, in a way. So there's, you know, um, it's really hard to predict what's going to happen.
Speaker 2You know, with the game in these areas, and it sounds quite difficult, especially, yeah, because obviously there's people are very cautious about what they are how they want to hunt in those areas now.
Speaker 3Yeah, well, I wouldn't release my dogs I don't see, and we get, you know these, and we have these vests mainly for hunting boar, but you can also apply, you know, these wolf kind of nails that should protect them in a way from from wolves. But you know, I I don't, I'm not going to take the risk I've seen because wolves don't?
Speaker 3they don't really hunt boar in the same way. So, you know, the boar population is gonna, you know, rise in some levels because people stop hunting the dogs there, the wolves take out all the deer and you know, the boar. All of a sudden they don't really have, you know, a predator anymore.
Speaker 2No, no, absolutely it's. It's crazy, but again it's. Somebody sat in an office, unfortunately, because, oh, that'd be nice, we'll put those, we'll put wolves back in, or something like that yeah back in or something like that.
Speaker 2Yeah, fair enough, so no, no, well, that's kind of interesting. So because obviously Sweden as well have, um, I had, I've got a friend over there, uh, who was telling me because she she's got a tracking dog and she's part of one of the teams that if an animal gets hit at the side of the road can be called in to go and search again, something that the uk doesn't do but can. Are you involved in that, or do you get any any calls to go and track wounded animals?
Speaker 3I do to some point. Not, uh, traffic, um, okay, wounded animals, but you know, just hunting with dogs and also, you know the tracking part. It's a really um, it's a big thing. In sweden, you know, it's a, it's a. We have a really strong tradition of, uh, you know, working with dogs and and I did this podcast with the it aired in in the us and they were really, okay, no, surprised as well, uh, when I told them that you know if you hit an animal, you're, you're obligated to call yeah, you know the, the emergency number no, absolutely.
Speaker 2It's fantastic, is it?
Speaker 3999 in scotland as well yeah yeah, so so you have to call and they're always gonna send out someone to try and track and, and you know, put down the animal if it's needed each time someone hits a deer or more in the uk normally, while up here I've been to that many sort of deer at the side of the road and things like that it's, but nobody has to report them.
Speaker 2You'll get somebody say, oh, I've hit a deer, yeah, did you stop, did you check it? Oh, no, I just carried on and and that's it and and we kind of find them in fields and things like that.
Speaker 3But yeah, it's, I think Sweden it's, it's compulsory that you have to report it and your insurance company yeah won't do things as well, because if you haven't reported them they they won't cover you, and things like that yeah, so if you, if you leave your car um, if it's, you know, dented and and they found blood or hairs or anything on it, you know the insurance company is not going to help you and you're going to get reported to the police. So you really you need to to call and you know it's not. They're not going to judge you for hitting the animal. You know we have a lot of animals and it's you know we live in a dark country, it's gonna happen absolutely but just make the call and make sure someone.
Speaker 3The police is gonna make sure someone comes out and tracks it.
Speaker 2I do some tracking in hunting, but, you know, not in in the traffic, wounded animals yeah, the traffic wounded ones were always an interesting one because I I remember having a chat and they'd gone a long way and obviously you have to get the emissions of all the land you cover and everything like that, but that is complicated oh, absolutely, and you could be tracking. You could be tracking something for for hours. I think 10k was the furthest they'd gone.
Speaker 3It's, it's crazy really yeah, they're truly the, the heroes of the hunting quarry in sweden but at least it's a follow-up, that's the most important part.
Speaker 2And no animal. Well, you hope that no animal is left to suffer or or have an issue, and and exactly, and die.
Speaker 1Pretty much an awful awful end at the end of the day yeah, slow, slow death.
Speaker 3And most you know, I know some trackers as well. Most of them try to, you know, send a message or something that I found it and now you know it's put out of its misery, or or it's it's healthy.
Speaker 2I've you know, yeah, yeah, and that's that's what. That's what you kind of want to know at the end of the day, isn't it? We're all, we're all hunters, but we're not all cold-blooded killers, are we no? Exactly no so conservation is important. So obviously, with the hunting season over, uh, you've still got a few other things to do.
Speaker 3What are you planning next year, already working out what's going to happen, where you're going, etc I am, I am, um, I've already starting to to get some of the dates for hunts in in the autumn okay some dates are, you know, my own it's, uh, you know, the grouse premiere.
Speaker 3That's a given date for me, uh. But then also, you know, some of the states send out you know the dates really early to make sure we we can come and hunt with the dogs. So that's already on the planning. But you know, this spring I have a lot of courses with the dogs that I'm looking forward to, some tracking courses, so that's. You know, this is the part of year where I have to have them on lead. So I really need you know from you know, six months they've been running loose in the forest doing, you know, whatever they want and now I'm gonna have to try and activate them with the lead. So tracking is, you know, the one activity I found that you know tires them fastest.
Speaker 2Oh, fantastic fantastic yeah so another question for you then. I'm sure Is there any particular species of animal that you would like to hunt, and it doesn't necessarily have to be in Sweden.
Speaker 3That's an excellent question. I think I've had this question before, and perhaps. I've answered it differently, so I'm going to give you the latest answer. I would actually really like to hunt seal.
Speaker 2Seal, okay yeah.
Speaker 3Because I don't have access to that kind of hunting. We have it in Sweden. It's not that uncommon, but I'm brought up in in the stockholm archipelago so that kind of environment where the seals are is my home type of environment. But I've never hunted, you know, in the archipelago.
Speaker 2I've always hunted in the forest and it's not really my, you know, home habitat, because it it's meant to be quite an interesting hunt, a seal, isn't it? Because they obviously they. They pop their heads up above the water. You get a very short window to to take a shot and you have to recover it fairly quickly.
Speaker 3I think yeah so either you recover it really quickly or you dive after it. That's the thing, okay. So it's a complicated hunt. It's not something I would you know do on my own. I need, you know, the guidance for it.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 3And also, either you shoot it in the sea but you know it's going to bob up and down, because you know the sea is not going to be still. Or you shoot them lying on on the cliffs.
Speaker 3But then I mean you have to get a clear shot because normally you know they lump together and, uh, it's really um, either you have water or a really stony area, so it's. You know it's a lot to take into consideration, so it's a complicated hunt, but I think just the the environment would be amazing to hunt in and that that's still because obviously um, I'm assuming that's a management thing because the seal numbers are increasing over there as well they are yeah, yeah see, we have.
Speaker 2We have an increasing number of seals up here now that are devastating our fish stocks. However, they're now protected and you can't shoot them right it's the, because I think you you're allowed to shoot badges as well in sweden. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so bad like the pest control just like foxes.
Speaker 3Why? Yeah, you know I saw that on on this series. What's it called um clarkson's farm, where they? Had really big problems with you know, diseases spreading and all and the badgers were protected. I didn't quite get the logic there.
Speaker 2So so badgers were persecuted, uh, for a long time and and really heavily controlled, and then people said, well, if we don't do something about this, we'll have no badgers left. So badgers got moved on to a protection list that basically said you weren't allowed to shoot badgers or do anything to badgers, of which point the badgers then managed to breed, reestablish themselves and their numbers have gone crazy. However, they're still on the protected list, and so in the south of England they've had a badger cull, so they have actually been out and they've, under license and regulation, have shot badgers. But in places like Scotland there's no badger cull because they believe that the badgers don't carry the disease of TB and they're still protected. So we're losing hedgehogs. We've noticed the number of foxes in certain areas go down because the badgers move into the fox holes yeah it's, it's crazy that is really crazy.
Speaker 2Yeah, no, we yeah, yeah, no, no, no. And same with seals. Again exactly that. Seals are on a protected list. Nobody wants Disney, haven't helped us Disney. The Disneyfication of all these animals. It makes seals cute and fluffy, kind of thing when actually they're pretty vicious and horrible.
Speaker 3They are, you know, the Disney version of seals. You know, with the big eyes, and they do look like that. You know, try and pop up the mouth and you're gonna see the teeth exactly, so we've had a lot of a big problem with.
Speaker 3You know the fish is being heavily fished with these uh big um chips uh out in the the coast. So a lot of fish um run inwards, you know, to to the shore, and so the seals come with them. So that's, you know, in one part the seals, you know the numbers have increased, but they've also migrated with the fish in a way because we fish too much out, so so they just you know move inwards well it's.
Speaker 2It's a nice life lying on the rocks. Food comes to you.
Speaker 3They're gonna follow their food. I mean, why wouldn't they?
Speaker 2exactly and and that's our big problem we've had a lot of dog attacks because of the seals that we are like people letting their dogs into the estuary and the seals attack the dogs, but yet nobody actually.
Speaker 2Yeah yeah, really that it's, it's um, we have a lot of the guys that go out wild fouling and shooting on the shoreline for the ducks and things like that. They're now very wary because they've had like they'll send their dog in to retrieve. And I think one shooter had a lab that went in to retrieve something and the seal decided it wanted that. So it attacked the dog and killed the dog oh no yeah, yeah. So again, like your wolf stories, we've got the seals on the coast. But, again.
Speaker 2Somebody said that they need to be protected, and that's that they are off limits. You can't do anything about them.
Speaker 3Someone felt that they had to be protected.
Speaker 2And that person. Somebody else will then moan that there are no fish going up. So the salmon that used to run up the rivers, um, obviously, scotland's well known for its salmon runs and sat fishing salmon. Well, the salmon numbers have depleted because the seals are like a massive net with teeth at the end of the river. That are just just eating them up. Yeah, so we can. We can carry on discussing things like this, but it's yeah it's one of those.
Speaker 2I think that's. This is the problem. We have a lot of, I think, world over politicians sit in yeah in big offices and make very quick decisions as to how the countryside should run and unfortunately it it does have a detrimental effect on on everything, then they don't realize that it's kind of the same thing.
Speaker 3You know people living in cities and people controlling. They are so disconnected so they don't see this. You know fast changes, yes in. You know wildlife stocks, or or you know the conservation of things. They just lose grip, you know and anything.
Speaker 2Any publication that a hunting group would put out would be deemed as it's biased, where that. That's the problem we have. So we're actually we are stuck in a very small minority of people that actually want to try and conserve the countryside, but we are going to struggle massively because the city folk don't see that no, no, and I mean it's.
Speaker 3It's in everyone's interest, also the hunter's interest, to conserve the wildlife. I mean not conserve it so that we can shoot it. You know, shoot all the stock, conserve it so we can shoot some, but still keep it so we can keep, you know, shooting absolutely so future generations can carry on doing, doing all this wonderful stuff.
Speaker 2Yeah, no, I such a big part in hunting conserving, but you know people don't get that yeah, yeah, yeah, no, absolutely, um well, I think I think that draws us quite nicely to sort of a good conclusion, because otherwise we might rant on about seals and badges for a bit too long. Is there any questions you've got for me?
Speaker 3while we're on, Well, actually I do. You have dogs as well.
Speaker 2I do yes.
Speaker 3Have you introduced them in this?
Speaker 2pod. Yeah, yeah, my, my three. I've got three springer spaniels and they are, um, well, the mum who was my, my sort of first well-trained dog, kind of well trained. She's mainly a bird dog, so she will come out and flush pheasants and things like that, but she's also now will pick up ground game like rabbits and bring those back um.
Speaker 2My second, which is one of her daughters, um, has a complete phobia of it. She'll flush birds but she won't retrieve anything. So she'll go in, put birds up but doesn't like bringing carrying things in her mouth. And the third one is is still a young pup. She's just coming up to two but has an absolutely fantastic nose. So I'm I'm trying to decide whether I take her down the line of a bird dog or actually whether I really get her going and get her more working as a tracking dog for me. Oh, yeah, so to be able to find stuff, because Spaniels are just I have. I don't have a whole team, exactly, yeah, but three Spaniels, you know, I, I do follow a whole team, exactly yeah, but three Spaniards.
Speaker 3you know I do follow a lot of Spaniards on social media and you know just that they radiate this type of energy that no other breed do. You know, the Spaniel energy. I just love seeing that, you know it's infectious.
Conclusion and Merchandise Update
Speaker 2It's 100% or nothing with mine. So, as you probably see by most of my photos, they're like lying across my lap or sitting on the chair. But you take them outside and, yeah, they'll work until they drop yeah um, so yes, my dogs are. They're part of the family, but they also they do. They probably don't work as much as they should do. I think that's because I spent most of this year on the hills chasing red, red deer around, but normally they are. They're out with me all the time doing stuff yeah so, yeah, there we go.
Speaker 2Well, I think most people have have dogs and if you are in the shooting world, yeah, that the dog will do something for you. Yeah, absolutely, but anyway I will draw it. We'll draw it for you. Yeah, absolutely, but anyway I will draw it. We'll draw it to a close there. But thank you ever so much for coming on and if anybody's got any questions, ping them over to me, go follow and I'll put some links in the in the bio and we'll take it from there, superb.
Speaker 3Thank you, yeah superb, thank you you.
Speaker 2I hope you found that enjoyable. It's quite interesting to see how other parts of the world manage their game and their training methods as well, especially In other news. I've just come back from the embroiderers getting our new logo put onto some clothing. We will be putting out some images of that at some point, so there is a possibility to own a piece of merchandise with the outdoor gibbon. I would be really grateful if you are interested in that. Obviously, everything that goes into that helps support this. We're not sponsored by anybody, so at the moment this production is is all being self-funded. Anyway, thanks for listening again and we'll catch you on the next one.