Voices For Suicide Prevention
Voices For Suicide Prevention
Beyond the Darkness: A Family's Journey Through Grief and Advocacy
What does resilience look like in the face of unthinkable loss? Debbie McClintock found herself navigating that question when she lost both her husband Pete and son Logan to suicide within five months. Rather than letting grief define her story, she chose to honor how they lived.
"Pete had a really big heart," Debbie shares, describing a quiet computer programmer who loved chess and telling corny jokes. Logan, her "wanderer and dreamer," was sharp-witted with aspirations to teach English abroad. Father and son shared a special bond on the Appalachian Trail—a connection that later inspired a remarkable journey toward healing and advocacy.
Through therapy, scholarships, and becoming "trail angels," Debbie celebrated their legacies. A gift from her now-husband, Chip—a license plate honoring Logan’s trail name “Wolverine”—sparked a realization: Ohio had no suicide prevention plate. Within two years, they helped pass legislation signed by Governor Mike DeWine.
Today, Ohio’s first suicide prevention license plate raises awareness for the 988 Crisis Lifeline and supports men’s mental health programs. Call or text 988 anytime for free, confidential support.
Welcome everyone to our May episode of Voices for Suicide Prevention. As we like to say, our conversations here are real talk, real honest, real life. I'm Scott Light.
Speaker 2:And I'm Stephanie Bucher, communications Director for Ohio Suicide Prevention Foundation and now your new podcast co-host.
Speaker 1:We need like applause in the background. I can actually do that with some sound effects, but won't do it. But, stephanie, this is fantastic. You and I work together all the time on all kinds of projects, but now you're coming to the podcast.
Speaker 2:I am and this is such a pleasure. I'm looking forward to continuing to, you know, highlight all these different voices of folks that we have that are doing some wonderful work throughout the state of Ohio about suicide prevention, and I'm just happy to be able to lend part of my voice as well to this.
Speaker 1:But it already sounds like you have a radio voice.
Speaker 2:I have a big background in radio. Excellent, excellent. Tell our listeners about it a little bit.
Speaker 2:Sure you know, my first professional life was in radio and television and my very last time on radio was in the Columbus Market on radio with 610 WTBN. I was the morning news anchor and then I went to the other side of the microphone. Instead of having the one with all the questions, I was the one that had to have all the answers and started in public and media relations. Many different places Got my start with the Ohio Attorney General's office at that time. I've worked in many different locations and I finally landed here at Ohio Suicide Prevention Foundation.
Speaker 1:It is fantastic and again, you and I work together on all kinds of projects, so it's great to have another broadcaster here on the podcast.
Speaker 2:Thank, you, Thank you. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, which, as you can imagine, means a lot to us here at OSPF. We have two incredible guests with us today. One especially has faced some unfathomable tragedy but, as you know from this work, so many people turn that tragedy into advocacy, education and impact. And in fact these guests will be joining Governor Mike DeWine to help him debut a new, very powerful license plate.
Speaker 1:That is huge. In fact, that's coming up later today on, you know, the day that we're recording this episode. So it is just a pleasure to welcome our two guests, chip and Debbie McClintock. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you for having us. Thank you, and if we had cameras here, we'd be able to show our listeners. You're all dressed up because, again in a couple of hours, you're going to get to meet the governor and take part in this fantastic ceremony. We're going to get to that in just a little bit. But, if you'd permit us, let's jump into your personal story here right out of the gate, debbie, and we certainly want to begin with you. We'll go back to 2012. Your husband then, pete, died by suicide and then, about five months later, you lost your son, logan, to suicide. Would you tell our listeners more about both Pete and Logan?
Speaker 3:I would love to. Pete was a. He has a really big heart. He was a really quiet guy, a computer programmer by trade. He loved to tell silly, corny jokes to the kids, so they still, to this day, talk about some funny joke that he had told them and still stays in their memory. He was incredibly intelligent, an all-around gifted athlete. He was a chess player. He won the Ohio State Chess Tournament when he was a senior in high school. He loved sports, though loved sports especially football, and he did even love the Cleveland teams.
Speaker 1:So had to deal with some heartbreak there for sure, as all of us Cleveland fans do.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. He took pleasure in the simple things in life. He liked to hike, very quiet, reserved kind of guy and he just loved his family tremendously.
Speaker 2:And what about Logan?
Speaker 3:Logan was really sharp-witted, reflective in nature. He loved to read. He loved poetry, loved to write. He wanted to teach English as a second language in South Korea and then eventually moved to Chile. He was also a gifted athlete, loved baseball in particular. He got that from his grandfather. He was on academic challenge two times when he was in high school. He loved theater. He was a wanderer and a dreamer Again. Love, simplicity, non-materialistic kind of kid had a lot of hopes and dreams. So yeah, he was. They were just wonderfully loved people.
Speaker 1:You mentioned a wanderer, an adventurer, and like simple, beautiful things in life. That tees up our next question. Actually, you know, because families do all kinds of things together. Right, they go to ballgames, they go to concerts, maybe they cook in the kitchen together. But there was a journey on the Appalachian Trail and boy, you want to talk about simple, unbelievable beauty there. They took a trip, pete and Logan did. Would you tell us about that journey?
Speaker 3:there. They took a trip. Pete and Logan did. Would you tell us about that journey? They did so originally in 2002, his dad hiked a big section of the Appalachian Trail. They were always northbounders, so they started in Georgia and went to Maine. Then he went back.
Speaker 3:He never completed it in 2002. And then he went back in 2005. And then, when Logan was a freshman in college, he decided he was going to through hike the Appalachian Trail. So he came home, made plans with his dad and on March 27th of 2007, they started that journey from Georgia to Maine. His dad did not intend to through hike it with him at that point in time, due to where things were in our life. I think they spent about two weeks together. He showed him the ropes, got him going, there were snow, storms and all sorts of fun tales that they brought home, but it was quite an adventure. He would Pete would say here's the old man and then here's the young man and they're venturing out together on this trail. So it was a really great experience for the two of them.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:I'm wondering so how old would Logan and Pete have been at that time?
Speaker 3:So he was just a freshman in college, so he had just turned 19, I believe, and then his dad was 39. That's not old. No no, it's not old, but he considered he was going with the youngster.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so, very briefly, logan did complete that in 2007. It then did prompt his father to complete it in 2009. So they both actually completed the Appalachian Trail, and but they did it separately. They did do it separately, though, yes.
Speaker 2:And so all of these stories that they came back that time, that they were able to share during that time, and then we're going to, I guess, fast forward several years from those those dates two deaths by suicide in the course of months, your husband and your son. You know, I'm sure that you know everyone is asking how did you get through that process? How did you get through the grief and being able to keep going with your life?
Speaker 3:I have. Two other children needed their mother and I did extensive therapy. I went to the Cornerstone of Hope and they have suicide specific counseling available, so I did a lot of counseling also early on. We wanted to honor the way that they lived, not the way in which they ended their lives, so we established a thousand dollar scholarship in my son's name at the high school that he graduated from in Painesville.
Speaker 3:We did trail angeling. We went back to the trail and trail angeling is where you take things to the trail for hikers. You have fresh fruit or you might have soda or beer or something that's left in a cooler. Oftentimes people will go and stay, so we would go and prepare brats and really fresh fruits and vegetables that they can't get when they're hiking because you have to carry what you're going to eat in your pack. So we did that in 2017, um, so we did that in 2017, 18, 19 and then again in 22. It's such a rewarding experience for us. We also, um.
Speaker 3:Pete loved to play cards, so we annually have a pete c repco gin tournament that our family participates in to try to honor his memory and the things that he loved. I had jewelry made from Logan's stone and arrowhead collections that I gave to friends and family. I had letters written from people that I gave to my other two children, jordan and Alicia, for their dad's 45th birthday so they could see the life he lived and the person that he was and hold those memories very close. All of those things have been so therapeutic for me and my family and maintaining the life that they lived, not the way that they ended their lives.
Speaker 1:We so appreciate your openness about all this and especially about therapy, because we say all the time, in all of this work to break stigmas out there we have to lean into, seeking therapy is a sign of strength. It is a sign of enormous strength and not some old school stereotype of if you seek therapy it's a sign of weakness.
Speaker 3:That's absolutely true, and there's no way around it. You have to go through it, and I needed the help of a licensed professional to get me through that process.
Speaker 2:And the process. It's not overnight and I think people think, oh well, they'll get over it, It'll be fine in a few weeks, a few months, a few years.
Speaker 3:No, the journey's ever-changing, constantly changing. They are forever in my heart. That doesn't go away. As we'll find later, certain things leading up to dates and things are extremely challenging. It's the leading up to things and things are extremely challenging. It's the leading up to things, the anticipation of how it's going to be versus the actual day.
Speaker 1:And in that process, stephanie, that you mentioned, the heart keeps expanding because the gentleman sitting right across from you here at our OSPF studio, chip, let's bring you into the conversation. So do we have this right that you both went to the same high school but you didn't really know each other?
Speaker 4:Well, we knew of each other. I would see through my face mask this cute little flute player. Was it the flute?
Speaker 3:Clarinet.
Speaker 4:But no, we knew who each other was, but we didn't hang out or anything in high school.
Speaker 1:So how'd you guys reconnect?
Speaker 4:Well, our high school, madison High School, was in the football playoffs and a friend of mine, a teammate of mine, said hey, do you want to come to the playoff game? And so we went, and then Debbie and some of our other friends they all share November birthdays and, of course, the high school playoffs often are in November and knowing you now, I couldn't believe you were at a high school playoff football game.
Speaker 3:We were just there before we went and had pizza and celebrated there, you go, there you go, yeah, so that's where we kind of reacquainted.
Speaker 4:And then the whole group of us just went out, like she said, for pizza and after the game. So it was divine intervention, I don't know. There you go, there you go, so it was divine intervention I don't know.
Speaker 2:There you go, there you go. So when you reconnected, at what point did you share with Chip about Pete and Logan?
Speaker 3:Because he knew Pete from high school. They had played football together, so he had already been aware of what had happened through other friends and just being on Facebook and those types of things. We had mutual interests. We both love being outside, we both love gardening and a whole slew of other things that apparently can't think of right now, and so the more time we spent together, the more things that I would share.
Speaker 1:And Chip. Permit me to follow up on that. There's certainly a big difference between seeing something on Facebook, even talking to maybe a mutual friend, but then hearing it from Debbie, and then you being really brought into the family. You're married now. So what was that like?
Speaker 4:as you learned more of backstories plural for sure about pete and logan if we speak about, let's say, logan, um, I can only, being a father myself, right, I can only imagine what it must be like, but by no means do I know what it's like. So, as, as deb mentioned, uh, the lead up is often the hardest part, when she's anticipating, let's say, the anniversary of logan's um, perhaps his birthday, um, and and even the holidays. You know those glass houses that you, they let you in and they turn a fan on and there's cash flying all over the place and you grab as much as you can right. Well, oftentimes on holidays, christmas especially, can be tough for Deb, jordan and Alicia. Imagine all those dollar bills are actually like index cards with feelings written on them. Do I want to be happy? Do I want to be sad? Do I want to help someone else? Do I want to be with everyone that's still with us? Do I want to curl up on the couch and watch a movie?
Speaker 4:And just this past Mother's Day was a little tricky for Deb. She gets two phone calls instead of three to say happy Mother's Day and we pondered were we going to go to the cemetery and plant flowers around? It was just really hard and, as Deb will say a lot of times she doesn't know how she's going to feel until a minute or two before and the fan shuts off and one of those index cards lands, and that year it might be, let's be sad, or that year it might be, let's be sad, or that year it might be, let's go to the cemetery. So it's my observation as an outsider is their family basically went to hell and back twice in a five-month period. I can't imagine. But then again I have no idea.
Speaker 2:But you're here and you're supportive and I think that now that you are have been in. How long have you two been married? I guess we haven't really established that.
Speaker 3:We got married twice, all right. Right, I love it we got married in 2017 for financial reasons, and then we got married again in 2018 in front of our whole family on the exact same date so we got married financial and insurance.
Speaker 1:That's called adulting. That's called adulting, that's okay and our kids.
Speaker 4:We told them they. They said whatever, go ahead.
Speaker 3:So it's our 8-7 this year.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 3:Our 87th.
Speaker 4:Right Year 8 and year 7. That's right.
Speaker 2:Well, congratulations on that, Thank you. So, Debbie, with Chip now in the 8-7 year range and the two of you working through life and those different challenges that come up, what has that support meant to you?
Speaker 3:He has seen all the darkness and he's seen the really, really bad, challenging days and he's seen the impact that these tragedies have had on um my children and myself. And he has not faltered. He has just been there um all the time and it hasn't scared him away. Um he always says I'm not going anywhere, um, and it's just been I, I it's priceless, I just can't even.
Speaker 4:Hmm, they just had a fist bump across the table and it kind of made the hair on the back of my neck. C&d is what we're called.
Speaker 1:Well, and we can take your comment, debbie, and again another springboard from there, because from all of that support, chip, a few years back you bought Debbie a specialized license plate for her to remember Logan. Why don't you both talk about that experience?
Speaker 3:What's really funny is he surprised me with it. It was a gift. The plate actually arrived. He got it in early November. It actually arrived on November 29th of 2022, which was Logan's 35th birthday.
Speaker 4:And that was not planned. You're at the mercy of the nail, yeah.
Speaker 3:So that in and of itself was a gift.
Speaker 4:We had just gotten a new vehicle and neither one of us are much for vanity plates, but I thought this would be kind of cool. But I thought this would be kind of cool, and so I went into the license bureau and I had looked up to make sure this plate that I wanted was available, which was AT Wolf, which Appalachian Trail is, and Logan's trail name was Wolverine. So I was in there and there's different organizations that you can buy license plates for, and so I picked the one that was Trees for Ohio, because I thought, okay, that's kind of close to hiking and whatnot. And then, as I was driving home, I thought, well, there isn't anything for mental health or suicide prevention or awareness. And we chatted that night at dinner and we said, well, heck, let's see what's involved to get something like that in place, because it wasn't available. And so that's what kind of planted the seed, I guess you'd say.
Speaker 1:And that was November 2022. Correct, these folks, stephanie, get things done.
Speaker 2:They are not messing around when C and D get together.
Speaker 4:That's right.
Speaker 2:Be careful. So that sparked the idea for a different specialty license plate and being able to be dedicated for that suicide prevention. Did you think 988 at that time too?
Speaker 3:We did not. What's funny about it is 988 had just been unveiled, in July of that year, I believe. So Chip knows some different people and he had a contact in this area. Had a contact in this area a college and high school classmate, steve Marks, who works for Hannah News, and he's the one who actually pointed us in the direction of the Ohio Suicide Prevention Foundation, and Tony Coder specifically, I believe.
Speaker 4:Yes, and actually Casey Weinstein, a representative in Hudson I reached out to him and Steve almost at the same time and, yeah, that was that was Steve was a big help on pointing us towards Tony and your group. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So you worked through the system of trying to. You know there were petitions that had to be signed. There were, you know, bill sponsors that had to be done. I mean, basically you had to pass a law in essence. So we went from that idea to a bill that was signed earlier this year by Governor Mike DeWine, for a new license plate to spread awareness. It includes Ohio Suicide Prevention Foundation and 988. So here we are today, in just a few short years, and now there is now a license plate, as of today, that you can get it from the state of Ohio.
Speaker 3:Unbelievable really. What about that journey? It's been.
Speaker 4:I'm just a bill. I'm only a bill, and I'm sitting here on Capitol Hill School, or schoolhouse.
Speaker 1:That's what we're all thinking about. That's what our listeners are thinking about right now.
Speaker 3:So we watched it when we were younger. But as we started the process with Tony in January and we got petitions and then it was March, they said, oh well, it's going to go to the House and it's going to go to the Senate, and you know, now they're on leave or on break and it seemed endless. And so that song is actually very appropriate, because we were hoping that Bill was going to be whisked off and signed into law.
Speaker 4:We learned a lot the parliamentary process and there were times where we felt like we were twiddling our thumbs. So we would randomly email Tony and group in a bunch of other staff members and they're like just hang on.
Speaker 3:So we learned an awful lot. We did.
Speaker 1:So two and a half years, you guys got this done, debbie. Was it cathartic? Was it another kind of layer in that catharsis, in this whole process?
Speaker 3:It really was. There were a lot of tears that were shed, particularly driving to work in the morning for some reason, but I know and I believe and I feel that the benefits outweigh any of that, so it's been extremely healing for me. So now the license plate is now available.
Speaker 2:We're going to call it the Ohio Suicide Prevention Foundation, slash 988. Again, that is the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline If anyone needs to call, text or chat with someone about any type of crisis that they may be going through or any type of help that they may need to help someone who they love. So the money from the plate my understanding is that there will be, you know, obviously specialty plates cost a little bit more. So the money from the some of the money will go where.
Speaker 3:So the money is, I'm told, to go to the Ohio Suicide Prevention Foundation, specifically in a fund named after my son, logan J Repko, in a fund named after my son, logan J Rupko, and that will all go back into Ohio communities to provide training and support for suicide prevention. More specifically, the fund should be earmarked for men's mental health.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so $10 from each of the license plates will come back to OSPF so that we can help back in those communities. And, as you said, specifically we want to talk to men and about, you know, supporting their mental health, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Once people start buying these plates, obviously they're going to be out there. Here's my question what do you think is going to go through your mind when you see one on 270 or I-70? I mean, what is that feeling going to be like?
Speaker 4:270 or i70. I mean, what is that feeling going to be like? I can't wait and it's funny that you asked that, scott, because just this past week built leading up to our coming here um, we've always been. I have a wall full of license plates in my garage. Okay, like when we sell a vehicle. Um, deb has a fun little math thing she does when she sees a license plate. So, anyhow, I'm looking at them all the time and it hit me this week like wow, wow, because the key here we need to spread the word. I'm amazed how many people haven't really even heard of 988. And what do they say? The old marketing study. You have to see a logo like 19 times or something before it becomes. So, hey, if this contributes and yeah, I can't wait to see to be behind one at a stoplight and it'll be exciting.
Speaker 2:And Chip, you also want people, when they see that 988, you want them to know it's not just about a crisis or not just about a mental health issue. It's about anyone who's concerned about someone.
Speaker 4:Absolutely. I actually called it one time myself because I had an acquaintance and it was just a situation that I wanted to address with this person. But I didn't want to ask it the wrong way, and the person on the other end was amazing and gave me some tips, some tools from my toolbox to broach this topic. But what was interesting is they were adamant. They would not let me hang up until they were comfortable that I was okay. Like am I speaking in third person? So it's not just for folks who might be in peril, it's for, yes, if you have a concern about a loved one, a co-worker, but that's a whole nother topic because oftentimes we don't know if the person's not feeling well mentally.
Speaker 4:And we can see a broken arm. We can see Joe Theismann break his leg, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:So, yeah, that's the other part of the message that I hope people understand. You don't have to be the patient if you will.
Speaker 1:The other thing too, that we talk about a lot not just on these episodes, but just overall about mental health. It's still something that is talked about in hushed tones. What is it going to take to just move the hushed tones aside and for us to talk about mental health just like we're talking about anything else, in a loud and proud way?
Speaker 4:Really, I hope I don't sound too much like a football meathead, but this is kind of our next venture. I've been around football all my life. I played I was actually on the football team at Ohio State as a student manager which is really just a glorified ball boy to this one team because they were really fast. And so I called some of my contacts who I knew through my years and that are coaches, and the best advice I got from one coach was you need to stop the speed before it starts. In other words, don't let them outside, don't let them in the open field, because you will never catch them. You know when you, when you, you grow up, you're taught, you know you see the dentist twice a year, get your annual physical, get your oil changed every 3 000 miles. Well, if we could get and I don't know where any of this stands right now but if we can make part of your annual checkup also a mental health checkup at a young age, and then hopefully we can stop the speed before it starts.
Speaker 4:You know, I have a friend, a landscape friend, out in Connecticut who's been going to a therapist they started as little his siblings and we said why, what was wrong and he said nothing.
Speaker 4:And there's still nothing. Not that there aren't life, but they were given tools at a young age to learn how to, especially today with social media and bullying. And so if there's a way that we can incorporate, you know, six months you got to go to the dentist, it's your annual physical and here's, you know, you have your, your eight month mental health checkup. And then if you get younger kids used to therapists, if you do need them in the future, they're already used to. I mean, I've seen, I've seen adults who have never been to the dentist and they finally have a dentist appointment and they're petrified because they're not comfortable with it, they're not used to it. So if there's a way we can incorporate a mental health checkup as well as your physical and your dentist, and, you know, hopefully that can stop the speed before it starts and then perhaps people are more comfortable talking about it and it's not, you know, hush, hush.
Speaker 1:What you're talking about is preventative care Exactly Really.
Speaker 4:That's what you're talking about. Is preventative care.
Speaker 1:Exactly, really, that's what you're talking about. That's a great idea. That's kind of what we're thinking. I sense another law. I sense something else coming from these folks in the next couple of years here, Stephanie.
Speaker 2:Well, I look forward to that, and if there's anything that we can ever do here at the Ohio Suicide Prevention Foundation, just let us know, because you two are amazing.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 2:You're awesome and you definitely do set that example for other people about how you can turn that into advocacy, and I guess at this point you know. Just moving forward, how do we continue to support families? How do we continue to help families such as you to help continue to remember, as you said, celebrating their life and not how they ended it?
Speaker 3:The biggest thing for me is continuing to talk about it. This particular process has been incredibly healing for me, but very challenging at the same point in time, but I know that it's going to help somebody. This helps even one person to not go through the things that my family has gone through. That's a really good day.
Speaker 4:Amen.
Speaker 1:It's probably a good way to end this episode. I think so too.
Speaker 2:I think we can drop the mic on that one, Scott.
Speaker 1:We can Thank you both for joining us today. To our listeners, thank you as well. When you listen to these episodes, you break stigmas, you get out there and break barriers. You obviously care about mental health and saving lives. This is Voices for Suicide Prevention, brought to you by the Ohio Suicide Prevention Foundation. Thank you.