Hi. Welcome to social way, sorted the podcast. My name is Vicky and I started social exalted as a platform for newly qualified social workers, because I want to help you bridge the gap between learning and practice. And I really am interested in looking at skills for practice and how they can be developed. If it's the first time that you were listening to this podcast and thank you. If you're returning, after listening to other episodes, Thank you as well. I'm really grateful for everyone who does listen and I've been getting really positive feedback. If you have found any of the podcasts useful, or you find this episode particularly helpful, and it would really help me. If you could take the time to leave a rating, much like in social work, sometimes it's the little things that make all the difference and the ratings for the podcast might seem quite a little thing, but they make a massive difference to me. So I'd be really grateful if you could do that. This is one of the most requested podcast topics that I've had over the last few weeks from lots of people over Instagram. A lot of the newly qualified social workers. Who might be. Coming up to working with care proceedings or dealing with legal matters and wanting to have a bit of an introduction into court skills. This is going to be helpful as well. If you're a student and it might even be a helpful refresher, if you're an experienced social worker. So, this is going to be one of the more bite-size episode two, which is focusing on an introduction to court skills. It's really important that. When we are using certain words or certain phrases in social work that we really start to unpack those what they might mean for us. And what they might mean for the families that we work with. And when we're talking about core skills, I think it's really important to do that. What happened when we say the word court? What are the images that might be brought up for us? And what are the images that might come up for people that were working with. A lot of the time when we're talking about court, We talking about. A physical place where people go. Where legal proceedings are held. A lot of the time when we're talking about court, The first thing that people think about might be a criminal court rather than a family court. Now, I'm talking here about social work in the UK. I know that it works very differently in other countries. It's important to be able to explain processes beyond just say, we're going to court. Because we have to understand the processes that we've experienced and we have to be able to explain those processes. To the people that were working with. So if you find yourself talking about court with. An adult or with the child. Actually think, can I give a better explanation about this? What am I really talking about? If I'm with children's services? Am I talking about going into care proceedings or initiating care proceedings, if I'm in adult services, am I talking about the court of protection and actually, what does that mean? And what does that look like? If we're simply using the word court, when we're talking about legal proceedings. We're not offering a satisfactory explanation as to why it's happening and it is going to incite a lot more fear for a person. Who is going to be experiencing that. I know when I was nearly qualified. When somebody said court, I immediately had an image in my head of an American courtroom. With a judge, with jury with lawyers, with lots of people watching and something probably quite dramatic happening. And that's because I've been influenced over my lifetime by things that I've seen on TV films that I've seen in books that I've read. And again, As a social worker, it's really important for you to unpick what your experience of courts and our legal proceedings has been. And your experience might have been seeing things in the media. That might not necessarily equate with a bot. A family court process might look like. With everything we need to think about something affects those, but we also need to think about how that might affect a family. Again, when we're talking about court, when legal proceedings. With children and families. It's important to explain what that looks like. A lot of families that I would go and visit and explain legal proceedings to would assume that they were going to court to. Speak to a judge that might be wearing a wig. Or that that lawyers or barristers might be wearing gowns. Now in the family courts in care proceedings, that's not the case. That's really something that we'd more associate with the criminal courts and that's one of the reasons why it's important to really separate what those two things mean. Going back to the idea out of your experience of court and legal proceedings. It's about really on picking what your relationship has then with the law. Because one of the biggest emotions that social workers feel about court is fear. There is fear. There is anxiety. There is worry. And so it's really important thing. Why am I experiencing those emotions? Are. Um, this particular thing. What's your relationship with the law? What's your experience with authority? What's your experience of being told off or reprimanded because these are all things that we associate with legal proceedings. Um, whilst yes, particularly in children's social work, we're working in family courts. A lot of, uh, Unconscious experience might have been in the criminal court. So that's why I'm asking you to think about your experience of. Being reprimanded and being told off what feelings does that bring up for you? And is that a bit of a connection with why you're feeling fear and anxiety about the idea of a family court? These things again are always going to impact the people that you're working with. And when we're thinking about cam proceedings or working with anyone in legal proceedings, We absolutely have to consider. Intersectionality. Now I identify as white because I've been racialized as white because of the color of my skin. I identify as British and my gender identity is female. So for me, I have to have an understanding. That any fear or any anxiety that I have about core is because of maybe some of the things that I've seen or I've witnessed. but having white skin means that my relationship with the legal system is a very different one than someone who has been racialised as black the house to be an understanding about fair that comes from. A very realistic place and fair that might come from a different place. Maybe about the idea of what might happen. But not something that has actually happened And so it's important to think about what is rational and what is not rational. I'm not saying that as a newly qualified social worker, you aren't going to feel those emotions. Of fear and maybe feeling afraid of court but your experience is going to be dependent on how you are racialized, how your race has been constructed by society. Because of the systemic racism that exists within every system in this country. That includes the social care system, but it absolutely includes the legal systems. So think about that. Be conscious of that. Talk about that, because if we're not talking about that, With our colleagues and with the families that we work with. We're not. Working in an anti-racist manner. It's really important that a social workers were engaging with anti-racist practice. And I will include links in the show notes to all the different resources and the different people that I am trying as much as possible to learn from and appreciate that. My perspective as a social worker with white skin who benefits from racist systems is going to be very different to other social work perspectives, but it's. It's important for me to comment on the topic of intersectionality, because it's something that we need to. Talk about more in social work, as much as possible. But I think when we're talking about court and when I'm looking at introduction to court skills, We absolutely have to consider how intersectionality will impact our understanding of core, our experience of core. Affairs and our worries about core and where they come from. And how that's going to be different for people depending on that. Personal experience and their experience of systemic racism or oppression that goes for social workers. And that goes for the people that social workers might be working with as well. Coming back to that. Feeling of fear that social workers might have around care proceedings or legal proceedings. Knowing that that fear will come from different places for different people and will look very different for different social workers, depending on your life experience. I would advise, always to remind yourself that. The people. In the legal professions are just that they are people. And as social workers. He worked with people. In lots of different ways every single day. One thing that can bring that fear and anxiety and worry down is just coming back to the point that these are just people doing their jobs. You have skills that you will use to interact and communicate. And those are the same skills that you can use with legal professionals. They are people doing their job. Just the same way that you are. That can be. A lot of intimidation that can happen to social workers. Whether that is intentional from legal professionals, doing that. Tactically, which is something that I've experienced before. Or whether or not comes from. You as a social worker, having a certain perspective of a legal professional as maybe being more intelligent than you are, maybe being more knowledgeable than you. Sometimes that comes from imposter syndrome as social workers. I bring yourself back to the fact that legal professionals are people too. Judges are people too. And as we need to try and humanize this process, because if we're seeing legal professionals as on pedestals, rather than our equals. And that's already can impact the dynamic. And that's certainly going to feed into any feelings of fear that you might have as a social worker. There was so many things that we can unpack in terms of skills for being in court, presenting in court. But. For me, it's always going to be a priority. As much as you can to maintain the relationships that you've got with the people that you're working with. Very sadly, when we working in children's services and we are getting to the point where we've had to enter care proceedings, it can be extremely difficult on working relationships. And that's completely understandable. You might have been working with a family for a significant amount of time. You might've got to know them to a certain extent. You might have got to work with the children, but when you are the face of a local authority and the person that represents that local authority or organization. And that local authority organization is making an application to the core. Perhaps to take a child out of their family and move them into foster care. We take a child out of the care of their parents and move them to stay with another family member. That is obviously going to be. Highly tense and highly emotionally fraught. But as much as possible. I would focus on maintaining that relationship. Because whilst those care proceedings are ongoing. You as a social worker, I still very likely going to have to go and do home visits. Stepped through a family's front door and interact with them and see the children spend time with them and talk to them. Even though you might be the face of the local authority who might be seeking something that they don't agree with. You might still also be the person who needs to explain the processes to them, to help them understand what is happening. You might still need to be the person who explains. How they can complain and how they can get advocacy, even though what you were doing in your professional work. Might be an opposition to that is a really complex dynamic. It's a really difficult place to be in as a social worker. And it's equally difficult, much more difficult for family members. Who. I might have to let you into their home, even though they have seen you in court the week before. Or they've read your statement that says that you don't think that they're able to care for that child. That's extremely difficult situation. It's an unimaginable situation to be in as a parent. So maintain your working relationships. If you do that all the way through, if you're honest and open with parents all the way through. Then all they can proceedings will absolutely not be easier for them. There should not be any surprises. They shouldn't read anything in a court statement that you haven't already said to them. Because that is when relationships break down, when parents feel that there has been distrust or things haven't been said, and they only finding out about them at court the court system is not designed to maintain those relationships. Neither qualified social workers. If you haven't been to the family court before one. Those are the things that I found most difficult was the new, the qualified social worker. Was that I have these relationships with families, although things might have been very difficult. We might find very different views. I could still go into a home visit and interact with them and laugh and joke and have conversations. But when we entered into court, nobody spoke to each other. Family members were with their solicitors. And I was with the solicitor of the local authority. And everything was very separate. You know, if you're in person on you in court. I go over and say, hello. It seems like. Very simple thing, but when you're in the environment, when things are very tense and when that court environment is set up, To separate you from families. It can be the most intimidating thing in the world to stand up and go over and say, hello. Even though a week before you might have been chatting in the house, sat on their sofa. Having a conversation about lots of different things. Going over and saying, hello, might feel intimidating for you, but it just might help normalize some of those processes. I've been in situations where I've been saying core and I am the person who has tissues ready for a family member. It's extremely complex because you are there as the social worker, perhaps advocating for a child, maybe not agreeing with the position of the parents, but try not to lose that empathy, that empathy, which is such an important social work scale. Be the social worker that says hello to families. When you in court be the social worker that has the tissues. Ready. When you see that someone's upset because you're the one who knows that family and his work with him for the longest. It's really difficult to try and summarize some of the bigger skills that you might need when you are presenting in court, perhaps giving evidence and perhaps rain evidence. But I think in terms of an introduction, I'd reiterate. It's so important to think about your feelings around court and legal proceedings. Why do you have those feelings? What are your life experiences that have brought you to this point? What's your relationship with the law? It's intersectionality is not something that you're considering in every aspect of your job. Let us start here. Again, I know that I'm speaking as someone with white skin, who's racialized as white who comes to the legal system with a very different experience and it's important for me to acknowledge that. I can't speak for anyone. Who's had a different experience and I would welcome anyone who wants to come on the podcast and talk about their experience and how intersectionality and the construction of race has. Impacted their experience of the legal system as a social worker and as a professional, because it's something that we need to talk about more. Coming back to always your relationship with the family, building that relationship. Being able to explain processes to the people that you're working with, who. However intimidated you are by the legal system. We're going to be 10 times more intimidated because this is your job. But when you enter into care proceedings That is someone else's life. Please don't underestimate that. Thank you so much for listening. I will do more podcasts on specifics around court skills and giving evidence. If that's something that you would find helpful, then let me know. Leave a comment on Instagram or message me or leave something in the reviews. If there is anyone that you would really like me to talk to on the podcast and let me know, and I will try and get them on as a guest, or if you want to come on the podcast and talk about anything to do with care proceedings or the family courts, or particularly. Attending court as an adult social worker, then send me a message. I'd be so interested to talk to you. Because obviously I have one area of expertise, but in terms of other areas of social work, I'm really interested in learning more. And I know that people listening will be as well. I hope you find this podcast helpful. As ever before you go and get on with whatever you're doing with your day or your evening. I'd invite you to take a pause. Slow down and just concentrate on your breath. For a couple of seconds. Breathing in and out. Remembering. Okay to slow down. I don't have to feel guilty about it. And you'll probably always benefit from taking a minute. To just breathe. Thank you so much for listening. Take. Uh, care.