Ep. 47 Judy Gaman

On this episode I am joined by Judy Gaman. Judy is an award winning Author and Public Speaker. She is the  CEO of Executive Medicine of Texas and the well-renowned host of the nationally syndicated, decade spanning Stay Young radio show and now the Stay Young, America! Podcast.

We discuss her book: Love, Life and Lucille: Lessons Learned from a Centenarian. While writing a book on longevity, Judy interviewed Lucille, an elegant and spirited woman who had just recently turned 100. Lucille had the fashion and style of old Hollywood, but it was all hidden behind the doors of her assisted living center. What began as a quick meeting became a lasting friendship that transformed into an inseparable bond. Lucille brought incredible wisdom and great stories to the table, while Judy provided an avenue for excitement and new opportunities. Together, the two began living life to the fullest, and meeting the most interesting people along the way (including Suzanne Somers). But then Lucille’s life came to an end through unexpected and unfortunate circumstances—and the very first lesson she ever taught Judy proved to be the most important one of all.

We discuss mentorship and friendship and how it is so important to be open to both relationships. Judy talks about a wonder teacher she had in high school that made such a positive impact on her life by just being himself and being a steady person in her life. The people that we can be a light for or the people that can be a light for us can truly not only impact our lives but can create a generational shift for entire families.

We are both motherless daughters. We talk about our experience with grief and what it feels like to be a part of a club that no one really wants to join.

Author | Judy Gaman - Author, Speaker, and Podcast Host | Southlake
Judy Gaman | Facebook
CEO | AUTHOR | SPEAKER (@judygaman) • Instagram photos and videos

Ashley (@filledupcup_) • Instagram photos and videos
Filled Up Cup - Unconventional Self Care for Modern Women

Transcript

0:00

Welcome to the filled up cup podcast. We are a different kind of self-care resource one that has nothing to do with bubble baths and face masks and everything to do with rediscovering yourself. We bring you real reviews, honest experiences and unfiltered opinions that will make you laugh, cry, and most importantly, leave you with a filled up cup.

Ashley: 0:32

I am very excited today. I have Judy Gamon joining me. Judy is an author, speaker and podcast. Co-host of stay young America. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Judy: 0:43

Oh, it's my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me on.

Ashley: 0:47

So your latest book is love life and Lucille. Can you tell our listeners what your book is about?

Judy: 0:53

Well, the best way to describe love life and Lucille is that it really is a story filled with laughter. And with emotion of all kind is a bit of an emotional roller coaster because it's about my friendship with Lucille Fleming, who was a hundred years old. When I met her, she died just shy of her hundred fourth birthday. And honestly, if you wanna get perspective in life, spend time with a centenarian.

Ashley: 1:20

Yeah, I can only imagine. I feel like every single year that we age, the things that we perceive as being so important, I find that when our perspective shifts, like the things like maybe our ant size or, our to-do list of daily tasks. Every year we realize that that's not the stuff that's really important. So I would imagine that Lucille really was able to put some of those kind of things in perspective.

Judy: 1:46

Oh, absolutely. I was a third generation workaholic and kind of wore that 60 hours a week, like a badge of honor. My friendship with Lucille Fleming, didn't just change my life. It changed the trajectory of my family. You know, my kids saw me just repeating the same things that my parents had done and their parents had done. And so I think sometimes people come into our lives and have such a purpose. I think her purpose for that stage or that friendship was greater than just our friendship. It was to mold the next generation and the people that are in my family in a really unique way.

Ashley: 2:26

how did you meet her?

Judy: 2:28

I was working on a book called age to perfection, how to thrive to 100 happy, healthy and wise. I was doing that as part of my job at executive medicine of Texas. I was co-authoring that with two physicians and doing the research about people, you know, living to a hundred, really looking into the blue zones. That's the places around the world where people live past a hundred and do so very well. I really started thinking there's gotta be more than just rinse and repeat the research. I had this idea and I asked my writing assistant to find me people over a hundred that I could interview. And I said, look, you know, they gotta know what they're talking about. They have to be able to remember me. They can't be drooling on themselves. I had like this image of what people over a hundred would look like. I was blown away because I had some of the most interesting conversations with these centenarians, but Lucille Fleming, and I just became attached to the hip. We became best friends and who knew that I would just be interviewing someone and it would turn into such an incredible story.

Ashley: 3:33

I think the stereotypes around older people, I think a lot of us have them, especially if you don't grow up in a family where you have grandparents or great-grandparents, what were some of the, old stereotypes that sort of disappeared. Once you got to know her aside from like the drooling and the not being able to remember.

Judy: 3:52

Well, I talk about in the book, kind of what was going through my mind before I met Lucille and then obviously is unfold and the book's very descriptive. And as I unfold that first meeting everything dissipated, and one thing was, I thought old people would smell. I kind of thought of old people as what a nursing home would smell like, and, especially the super elderly, you know, 90 and above. So I was pleasantly surprised that every time Lucille and I were together, she smelled like Chanel number five and she dressed to the nine. She smelled terrific. She was just bright eyed. Bushy-tailed the Texas Rangers who just fell in love with her when she threw out the first pitch at 102, they called her Lucille, the firecracker. And I thought that was such a good adjective to use. You're such a good description for her because she really was, she was a firecracker pretty much in everything she did. She just had such an incredible light about her.

Ashley: 4:55

It's so beautiful when people do have that passion or that they just, take every day as. I'm gonna live it to the fullest, cuz I find, we are living longer and longer and age really becomes more of a mindset. You could be on top of your game and be 103, but also, you know, maybe be struggling and be 23. So I think it really is. However you wanna look at life is how you are gonna live. It.

Judy: 5:24

Well, you're absolutely right. I'm the CEO at executive medicine, Texas. We see people all the time of various ages and 40, 50, 60, they all could look very, very different. And a lot of that does have to do with attitude, not just, are they optimistic personalities, but do they prepare their life? Do they think of their goals? Do they live with intention or do they just kind of. Go with the wind. We've found that the people that go with the wind really are trying to make up for a lost time. They realize that they kind of let their health go or they let other things go. And then the years go by versus the people that live with intention. These people are optimistic. There's a certain type of personality that does really well because they take ownership of their decisions. Whether that is what they eat, the exercise they do, the friendships they have. By the way, one thing when I interviewed these people over a hundred that was across the board, important to all of them was that they had a social life, that they had friends that they had a way to interact with people. I think this is so important at any age that we make sure that we have that social network, even for people that are, you know, we all worked from home for a while. We saw what it felt like to be a shut-in. So as we have elderly people in our life, or whether they're relatives or whether they're friends or just acquaintances or people that, from church, make sure that they're having those conversations, that they're surrounded by people because it's so important to longevity.

Ashley: 7:03

I think that connection piece is missing for so many people. I have a 15 year old daughter, so her generation compared to my generation communicated so differently, a lot of their communication is, through social media channels. It isn't always let's meet up at the mall and hang out or, whatever the case may be that I feel like we do have that disconnect of working from home, not engaging in conversations, not picking up the phone anymore to phone people. Where I think that that piece COVID aside there was such a mental health. What's the word I'm looking for? Basically like a mental.

Judy: 7:39

It was a crisis, honestly. I mean, we saw so many things with the social distancing, with the masking and this isn't a political statement at all. This is just the reality of what we saw in the medical field. In the medical field, we saw depression. We saw children having Learning delays. A lot of that is because they weren't able to see a lot of different facial expressions and get to learn their world. They weren't exposed to as much changes they should be exposed to every day to kind of help build that brain. So there's a lot to it. Even in the elderly population, we saw people that were in say independent living, or they were in their homes. And because even the people that moved to these independent living so they could have friends and they could go to the dining room and they could, eat with people and be social suddenly it was no different than just being in their home and be in a shut-in. The rate at which these people went from. Independent living to needing assisted living or even a nursing home. It was rapid. And if you talk to these companies that own these independent living centers, they just absolutely never seen anything like it. But the same time, it really gave a lot of backdrop and research for the marketing of these places, the importance of being around people and having your social network and having routines. And even if it's just getting out of your apartment and going down the hall and going to eat and talking to people and then going outside and going for a walk and visiting these things are all so important. We could talk about it in the elderly, but I think it's important for all of us. Cuz there still are people that are working from home maybe by choice, you know, they had a job and they gave them the option. I think a lot of companies now are recognizing that. They gotta get the workforce back in the office. It isn't even as much of a productivity thing. It is somewhat, but not even so much of a productivity thing as it is. We know that they do better as individuals, they do better on group projects. They do better working together when they're actually in the same space, not just staring at each other on a computer screen.

Ashley: 9:56

I do think the human connection piece is so important. I do hope that a lot of people sort of realized in the last two or three years, whether they were working at home or whether they We're able to still go to an office to some degree. I think if nothing else we sort of learned, who's so important in our life who are the coworkers that we wanna make sure that we're going for coffee with on the weekend, which are the family members that we really missed during this time of separation. And who do we wanna make sure that we're making that effort picking up the phone, you know, going for coffee, going for walks with them. I think even too, if you're somebody who maybe doesn't have close knit friends or doesn't have close knit family, that it's also looking, do you have elderly people? Do you have maybe single people in your neighborhood that you could connect with and builds those relationships? Because like you said, those are the things that really impact us so significantly that we really wanna make sure that we're facilitating all kinds of new relationships with people and just be open to that.

Judy: 11:00

Absolutely. And you mentioned earlier that you have a teenage daughter and how social media comes into play. This is something I talk about a lot. We've redefined what the word friend means. And a friend is not how many people like something you post that is not what friendship is. I guess we should come up with a new name, but friendship is who we do the human experience with who is it? That, that we have the ups and the downs with that understand us that know who we are. Lucille Fleming was, my very best friend. I don't think I'd ever had a friend quite like that. I'm not sure I'll ever have another friend quite like that, but it really showed me what it meant to be a friend to have a friend and to do that human experience because we tend to get in, a mindset that we have a task list, a giant task list, and we just have to go through the days and check the boxes. No, gosh, only one more box to check and then I can sleep. That's not really what life is about. We really need to, as a society, remember what life is about. It's almost like we've been in a fog. And perhaps that fog is that we have too much screen time. My husband and I traveled right before the pandemic, like right before we went to Italy and we went on a, what we called a screen break. We had eight days where we didn't look at a computer or phone. Neither one of us thought it could happen. He's a physician, I'm a CEO. We're like, I don't know. Are we gonna be able to do this the first. Maybe 48 hours. Literally we went through withdrawals almost like an alcoholic would or a drug addict. Just that fear of, oh my gosh, this is so weird. I feel like there's something missing. Then by day three, we noticed something. I mentioned it and then, and my husband confirmed, he was having the same thing. We noticed that our eyesight had improved, that our sense of smell had improved. Our sense of taste had improved and we thought, well, maybe everything just looks better, smells better and tastes better in Italy. we came back and we noticed that it stayed with us for about two, three days. But as we got into our routine and got back on our computers and back on our phones and back into our busy lives, everything was dulled and numbed again. But I, remember it so vividly that it was like, oh yeah, this is what living is is about. And I encourage all of your listeners to take a screen break a real true screen break and experience that because it's incredible.

Ashley: 13:38

Well, the digital detox, I couldn't agree with you more is so important. I think that we have been sort of conditioned to think about, like you said, being trapped in hustle culture, constantly be thinking about what's next instead of just knowing. You know, obviously if you're on call or if it's work related totally different story. I know for me personally, my phone causes me so much anxiety and I think we are all like addicted to it so much. I have it probably in my purse every single time that I leave the house, whether it's like grocery shopping, things like that, where this idea that we have to be constantly accessible to everybody. I think isn't great.

Judy: 14:19

We're like Pavlos dogs, you know, we hear a ding and we are just like, what? Oh, I gotta agree with that. We, no matter what we're doing we will have the strongest desire to look at our phone or maybe the computer dinged. And it was an email and we will detract our attention. And that kind of brings me to the whole multitasking Why because that's what it is. They've proven that we can't truly multitask. We can switch our brain from one task to the next, very fast. We become less effective, but there is truly no such thing as multitasking. The brain just doesn't work like that. It's not like a computer where you can just have all these processes running in the back and, they're all still running. It's just not the way our brains are wired

Ashley: 15:03

I feel like we're all so burnt out from it of trying to jam everything in and trying to focus as if we can have, you know, 20 tabs open that I think that we really need to move away from that and really leaned into like, what makes me feel good? What is bringing me joy? What do I actually enjoy doing? And, finding those hobbies or finding something to do for yourself that isn't screen based, or isn't, I have to be doing this for somebody else while trying to kind of do something for myself and split your attention in six different ways.

Judy: 15:35

Well, absolutely. Absolutely. We can't, not talk about the phone issue without talking about some of the other things that are happening, that we're seeing that the eye damage, people used to be 40 or getting into reading glasses. Now that's happening in the thirties, sometimes in the twenties. You get these late 20, early, 30 year olds and they scroll their phone. They're looking at, you know, TikTok or they're looking at YouTube or they're just addicted to their phone and we're seeing some changes in their neck. The C spines having a lot of pressure on it and we're seeing kind of like a hump at the back. So there's posture issues. There's eyesight issues, dark circles under the eyes are, very common with people that are on their phones too much. We're seeing a lack of sleep because of the blue light and people being on their phones. If it's the last thing you look at at night, and the first thing you look at in the morning when you get up, you're actually. Changing the chemistry, your brain. So there's so much that that we could do there. I know we're kind of going down a rabbit hole about technology, but I do think it's important because when I was shocked to find so many people that had lived to a hundred and I asked them, what does it take to live to a hundred and. Technology wasn't on the list. I'm really worried that we're gonna have a generation that is not going to have some of those joys that previous generations have had not be able to live in the present, not be able to have the connected relationships and just enjoy the human experience because they're busy watching other people's experience on their phone. One thing that I think is so important about the elderly. I think this is extremely true with Lucille is that as a society, we have an incredible natural resource at our fingertips. I like to refer to, the elderly is unburied treasure. They have so much to offer and we really need to be mining that wisdom. Instead of turning to celebrities and politicians and influencers on Instagram and you know, all these places that we seem to go and then we can't figure out why we're so lost, really the wisdom and the been there done that, that these people have, like with Lucille, she was born in the year, the Titanic sank. She came to the United States from Canada with a locket around her neck and a suitcase in her hand. She put herself through nursing school at a time when women just didn't do things like that, she really was self-sufficient and married a little bit later than most women had two beautiful, wonderful boys who are now incredible men and still very much alive and, younger than you would think they could be at their age. I think of. Lucille. And I think of many of the people that are living to 90 a hundred and doing it so well, that would just love to share their experiences and have someone to want to listen to them that you're not doing them as big of a favor as they're gonna do you. And I promise that is just so true. You may think, oh, I'm going to, you know, visit this elderly person. because I feel sorry for them, don't do it for that reason. I say, do it, cuz you're going on on a treasure hunt, you know, what is it that they know that is going to enhance your life? There's so much, and it's not just Lucille. There's so many people out there we need to value our elderly much more. we see in places like Japan and some of these other countries where they do this and everyone benefits when, the elderly in, the older generations are truly, truly held up on the pedestal. They deserve to be on.

Ashley: 19:36

It is really an untapped resource and agreed people shouldn't do it because they feel sorry for people that you really never know where your best friend is gonna come or where you're gonna find somebody that you really couldn't imagine your life without.

Judy: 19:51

And true your friendship knows no age. so even if it's someone who's 20 becoming friends with someone who's 40, I heard a young person recently say to me, well, I was gonna take this job, but I looked around and everybody was like old. And I said, how old were they? And she said, oh, they're like 40 of course. I was like, oh, wow. But what a mistake, all that you could gain from working with somebody who's a little bit older that you could take on your professional journey? I didn't understand why that was a reason not to work somewhere.

Ashley: 20:26

No, I couldn't imagine either. It makes me cringe because I was born in the eighties, grew up in the nineties and I'll have my daughter, I'll have other people. Oh, they're 40, they're 50. And the idea that it is so old, and I remember being young and having that sort of myth about age, thinking at a certain age, this would be old. And as I approach that age, it's so not like, I don't know what magic age becomes old, but it definitely does keep changing and changing and changing

Judy: 20:55

well, seventies, the new 50 that's what we're kind of seeing. We're seeing people in their seventies actually. Start new careers, go back to college take up new hobbies. It's incredible to watch really because they really fully expect that they're going to have time to enjoy whatever it is they've taken on, taking up dance lessons and all the more power to them. I think that's incredible. I just started an art class. My mom died six weeks ago and she was an artist and I thought this would be a great way to connect. She was a workaholic, but the one thing she did in her adult life was take up art and she was very good. So I thought this would be a great way for me to kind of connect and also work through the grief. I think I was the youngest person in the class and I just actually, today was my first day in the class. And to hear people tell their stories of why they were in the classroom was. It was awesome. You know, they they're saying, well, one lady's story, which I love. She said, I was talking to my granddaughter and I was telling her what I did in the fourth grade. I had this box and I had some things that I'd done and I pulled it out and I realized, wow, I used to like to draw. I actually was pretty good. She says, somewhere along the line, I just stopped drawing. So she's like, you know what? I think I'm gonna get back into that. I think I'm gonna, try my hand at that and really get into art again. I thought that was a wonderful story because we do, as we go through life, we get busy with family. We get busy with jobs. We get busy with all the things and we maybe lose sight. Of who we are at the core and really getting back to what were we like as kids? What were the things that we really enjoyed and maybe re-embrace those things.

Ashley: 22:40

I'm very sorry to hear about your mom.

Judy: 22:43

Oh, thank you. You know, it's been tough. It's never easy when you lose a parent. I heard someone give me this advice and I've said shared this advice many times, and maybe one of your listeners will hear this. And it was just so tender this advice. They said losing a parent is like getting into a club. You never wanted to join. But you have to be in the club because the only people who understand your pain are the people in the club. And I was like, wow, that is so true.

Ashley: 23:14

It is true.

Judy: 23:16

I shared that with other people and like, they have this look on their face. Like they're almost about to cry. Like they're like, oh my gosh, that's right. That's how I feel. You just can't prepare.

Ashley: 23:26

No, you really can't. I've lost both my parents. Grief is something that'll will come and go. It'll be with you forever. At times it does feel heavier. And at other times it does feel more manageable, but it is unfortunately a club that nobody wants to be a part of, but at one point or another, we all unfortunately join it.

Judy: 23:47

Yeah today, you know, in the art class, you're like, oh, well, Judy, why are you here? And now I'm thinking don't cry. Don't cry. Tell your story. Don't cry. I got through it, but you never know, because sometimes you can talk about it in you're good talking about, and other times it just strikes a chord and then the grief hits you and that's kind of the way grief is it? It ebbs and flows a little bit.

Ashley: 24:10

Well, and especially in thinking about the loss with the Lucille was there anything that you were sort of surprised about grief that maybe you hadn't experienced before?

Judy: 24:23

I think with Lucille, you know, when you're best friends with somebody over a hundred, you realize that every single day is a gift and she'd always buy green bananas. I talk about that in the book fully expecting that she's gonna see these things turn ripe and she'd lay out her clothes the night before, cuz she'd fully expected to wake up and put them on. I think because she always fully expected, I always fully expected for first, quite some time, but the day before she passed, she said to me, you know, I'm tired and it's okay. It it's okay if it's my time and I think, you know, not everybody gets those words and those words are so important to hear and it really helps give closure. She had her mental faculties right up. To the moment that she passed and, it's actually quite amazing. I talk about in the book, I'm very descriptive about that death scene. And so people have told me they've never cried so hard, but that it was the most beautiful description of, a death that they had ever read in their life. But it's because there was some beauty in that, moment, just I guess, peace and closure. It didn't mean I didn't cry and I didn't, have my moments afterwards, but in that moment I was so in the moment and Walter was with me, my husband and Mary, my assistant, who also helped with Lucille a lot. We were so in that moment that. It was almost like nothing else in the world could ever even enter our head space during that time. it was beautiful. It was incredible. For anyone who hasn't been at the bedside of a birth or the bedside of a death I would encourage them not to be afraid of either of those, because you get a whole new perspective on life.

Ashley: 26:29

I think that hard things can still be peaceful and hard things can still be beautiful. So I think whenever we lose somebody, especially a best friend or a loved one, I think it's okay to find the beauty in both. Like you said, it doesn't mean that we don't feel sad or it doesn't feel hard, but death can feel so hard that it's important to. Appreciate the good in it, whether the people aren't suffering anymore, whether they did get to go peaceful. I know for me personally, it was so beneficial for me to know the answers to the questions, to have had those conversations where, people don't feel like strangers, which sometimes can happen with parents that it's knowing that you feel like you have the complete story for me, I find brings a lot of closure. So it's like having those deep conversations with your loved ones, appreciating being in the moment with them. I know for me personally, I found that made grief a little bit easier.

Judy: 27:29

Yeah. I think you're absolutely spot on. And as parents of any age, we need to be having conversations. With our children about, what are our beliefs, what are our thoughts? What are the things that were important to us in life share stories from our childhood. So they're not left with who is mom, you know, or who is dad and kind of wondering, and almost grieving the loss of a better relationship. It's so important that we give that gift to our kids and to our grandkids, that they feel like they knew who we were. That legacy will kind of live on with, the generations that follow, but really it's for them. So, yeah, it's gonna hurt when you get close to people. It does hurt when they're gone, but they'll also have a sense of, like you said, peace, because they're not just wondering all the questions.

Ashley: 28:27

and as much as grief hurts, it's almost this like fantastic reminder that I loved this person so deeply that it actually hurts me. Like I think to maybe end your life and not have anybody that you felt sad that they weren't in your life anymore, I think could be worse than having the, the love and losing it with the people that made memories with you. And that really left that impact.

Judy: 28:58

I think you're absolutely right. I was thinking about when Lucille and I had first started hanging out and I can't believe somebody said this to you, somebody, it was a young person. I think they were maybe 19/20 at the time. And they said, why would you make friends with somebody over a hundred? They're just gonna die. I thought, wow, really? But I also felt sad for the person who had asked me that. I had to explain that we're all gonna die. You know, nobody gets out of this alive. We're all gonna die. We don't know when we're gonna die. Even in the book, I talk openly about getting Lyme disease when Lucille and I were friends and having a very close call with my own health. I didn't know what my future, if anything was gonna be during the height of, neuro lymes and, we have to embrace. Those relationships and those friendships for what they are, because we never know. We never know when we're going. We just gotta keep that in mind.

Ashley: 30:00

I think all of us are super guilty of taking our health for granted because it's like one of those things that until we do have a health scare or until something changes, it never really occurs to us that things could ever be otherwise. it's also something that we really need to be proactive and preemptive for things so that we don't get to an elderly age and go, I should have cut a whata made healthier choices or made differences in your lifestyle so that you do get to be as healthy as can be for as long as can be.

Judy: 30:42

Yeah. And don't think, oh, I don't wanna live to be a hundred cuz you have the stereotype. Anyone who says, oh, I don't wanna live to be a hundred. I'm like, you gotta read my book because you will change your mind. Lucille had so much fun. Especially once we were hanging out, she went on book tour with me. We were flying on airplanes and staying in hotels and going on TV and radio. And I mean, she just. This whole new new life. And I speak a lot around the country. One of my messages that I try to drive home to every audience is that we're never too washed up too. Burnt out to anything, to make a difference and have a purpose. As long as we have a heartbeat inside of. We have a purpose For Lucille I mean, she found a new purpose at the age of a hundred. She became the longevity expert and everywhere we went, everybody loved her and, they couldn't wait to hear what she had to say. We have to reinvent ourselves and really embrace where it is. We are in life and not say, oh, I wish I was 20, or I wish I was 30. Or, if you're 70, I wish I was 50. No, wherever you are in life, whatever stage you're in, embrace it and figure out what do you have to offer? Because if you're still breathing, you have something to offer.

Ashley: 32:03

I think getting older seems scary. I think in a lot of cases, the media will make older people, especially women will kind of put us into a box so that we, are just wrinkles or cellulite or, decrepit. We have such a, Basically like a fetish for younger people that I think that shift needs to change. That it's really understanding that you can be a rockstar at 50, you can be a rockstar at 80, but it doesn't mean, you know, that you'll have a Walker and not be able to leave your bed and be in diapers. I think that collective shift maybe for mainstream media needs to switch so that people's perspective can switch. But I also think that getting older is such a gift and I think every year does get better. Like, I don't know about you, but I wouldn't necessarily wanna go back to being in high school or my early twenties. I love the idea of being in my forties and, having the wisdom that I have now while also not caring about the sum of the things that I thought were really important in my twenties, that really aren't as important heading into my forties.

Judy: 33:06

I absolutely feel the same way. You know, I'm 51 and it's amazing when you hit these, decade milestones, how your life shifts. I think when you lose people in your life, there's also a shift because you start taking inventory of what's really important to me. You recognize that life isn't, a guarantee. And what do I wanna do? Where do I wanna spend my time? But one thing I wanna mention, you had said something about wrinkles and what the media shows us to be and advertising and all of these messages that we're always getting. We have a bit of a. I hate to say, you know, use the word crisis again, but it kind of is we have a real issue because we live in an over filtered world and it's creating significant body dysmorphia. We look in the mirror and we can't figure out why we don't look like the people on Facebook or Instagram or whatever platform you wanna say. But it's because they're changing their appearance or putting filters on. it used to be much harder to Photoshop yourself, but now it's instantaneous to change the way you look to smooth out those wrinkles and to get rid of blemishes and all of these things that we can do with filters with just a click of a button. And then you almost think or believe that the way you look and that's where everyone else looks. And then when you go and you look in the mirror, you don't want other people to take photos of you because you think you're not photogenic is that we've really got this skewed reality of what not only we look like, but what other people look like cuz we've just been over filtered.

Ashley: 34:54

Some of those filters are really horrific. Like, I don't know if you've ever seen those reels or the toss where they'll show their face filtered and then they'll move over to show what they really look like. It literally looks like two different people. They're almost unrecognizable that our real faces are gorgeous and like get in front of the pictures, create those memories and worry less about, what that filter is presenting to the world.

Judy: 35:23

I couldn't agree with you more. We need to just be happy with who we are and where we are and everything else just falls in line. I also believe that what's gone on with. Everyone's a rockstar, you know, and part of this was YouTube and everybody's got something to say, everybody's got a platform that they can be the loudest voice in a room it's created a sense. And this sounds odd coming from me because I do so much media and I've got a podcast and all of these things. So, I don't discount that sometimes these are necessary in the business world to do these things. But if we're not careful and we don't keep those things in check, and I'm very fortunate that I have children and grandchildren to help me keep things in check really easy. But if we don't keep those in check, we'll become very narcissistic and it will become all about me and everything I have to say, and I'm right, you're wrong. I'm not going to make friends or have conversations with people who don't just mirror and parrot. Either mirror, my image, or parrot my words. It's dangerous place in a lonely place to be. I just encourage all the listeners it's okay to be around people that don't think like you it's okay to be around people that don't look like you. And that goes for every side of the argument on every topic. That's what having a human experience is about. It's not the us for no more close the door. It's about getting out there and living and appreciating and respecting all points of view and then not internalizing when people don't agree with you.

Ashley: 37:09

I couldn't agree with that more. We're so quick to cancel these days. And even if we feel. Our life choices are gonna be a certain way. If we vote a certain way, if we surround ourselves with certain people, it doesn't mean that everybody who doesn't feel the same outside of our bubble is wrong. You can, you know, disagree with somebody on like just using politics as something easy, but they can still be hilarious. You can still love the same movies. You can still love the same spin class. We really do need to look for things that bring us together more than focusing on what divides us.

Judy: 37:50

The more we put that message out and keep repeating it, the more people will feel comfortable with that because there is so much out there with the opposite message. I love the saying that light always overpowers darkness. But you gotta have the light So in a very dark time and dark space and dark, parts of our ideology in the world right now, we really need to bring in the light and the more people that can bring in the light, the more we can balance some of this out,

Ashley: 38:24

we have to have room for growth. I think it's okay too to say, this is what I felt, or this is what I thought, and I've gotten different information or I've aged, and I have a different perspective. I think a lot of the times we don't wanna admit when we're wrong or we don't wanna admit when our opinion has changed or that we feel like there isn't a lot of room for forgiveness, if you feel different about something. So I think that's also something that we just need to appreciate that people can grow and change and be able to accept them when that happens.

Judy: 38:59

Yeah, for sure. I was thinking back when you were talking about that, I was thinking back to Lucille when she was dating, before she got married, she was dating as she was in college and just outside of college. And, twice it had happened to her. And I write about this in the book that, where she had really come close to perhaps an engagement. When it came time to meet the family, the families that were meeting like these future potential mother-in-laws immediately would discount her as, a candidate for their son, because she had a crucifix on her neck and they're like, oh, you can't marry Catholic. I remember hearing these stories and thinking that is just crazy. Oh my gosh. But haven't, we kind of gotten there in a lot of ways. Oh, you can't be friends with whoever across the political aisle or oh, this person has a sign in their yard for this or that. And oh, you know, you can't cross that barrier. I almost feel like we've gone backwards in so many ways in, the face of let's be tolerant, we've become less tolerant.

Ashley: 40:12

Yeah. I definitely agree with that. I think that we do focus way more on the judgment side of things, whether it's religion, whether it's politics, whether it's race and focus on the division things. It really ties into the narcissism of believing that we know best and that we know all of the things, instead of really focusing on, what can I gain from this person and not. In like a selfish way, but like, could I become a really good friend with this person? Could this person become, a really great support system for me. I think a lot of the times the people that we close off, like, Lucille, it ends up becoming this really remarkable change in our life and change in our perspective. We're doing ourselves such a disservice by not being open to new people and new things.

Judy: 40:59

You never know who's going to change your life or like, in my case, the trajectory of the next generation. Wouldn't it be sad if we didn't take the opportunity, if it was right there, we let it walk past us. And we didn't take the opportunity. I think often about how different my life would be if Lucille Fleming had never come into it. How I view the world so differently. Even my business, mind being a CEO, a lot of times I'm making decisions and I will make a decision. And if I really getting down to the nitty green dissect, why did I make this decision? There's usually a bit of a thread or a little bit of Lucille in there. She just had so much wisdom and she taught me so many things that I take forward in my relationships with my kids, with my spouse, with my employees. So many ways that that wisdom has been recycled and used in so many unique circumstances.

Ashley: 42:06

What a gift to really be open to those lessons and what a gift for everybody around you to be able to benefit them in that way as well of, of having that, love in their life and this shift of perspective and just really all of the things that she ended up giving to you.

Judy: 42:22

I was so fortunate. It was a gift and I don't discount at all. What a joy it was. I don't believe I met her by accident at all. It was meant to be.

Ashley: 42:34

I'm such a believer of meant to be. I do believe certain people come into our lives exactly when we need them and exactly. For that purpose to be a part of our life or really to bless us with the life lessons.

Judy: 42:47

You know, we've been talking about how important it is to have those friendships and take those people in and what we learn. I think we need to flip it on the other side and also mention how important it is that we are that person for somebody and that we allow those kind of friendships, or we mentor other people. We at any age have something to give, you know, who can we give to openly like I said, maybe it's a mentor to someone who's struggling with something that you've been there, done that with, maybe it start a business, maybe it's teach a class, maybe it's, which college should I go to and how do I figure out what I wanna do with my life? There's so many ways we can be mentoring and connecting with others.

Ashley: 43:40

I definitely agree with that. I think it's, going back to talking to people around you, really leaning in and being open to being accessible to people and not being closed off because it definitely does go both ways.

Judy: 43:56

I'm just curious in your life, did you have a mentor?

Ashley: 44:01

I don't really think I did specifically. I remember like in school there was really powerful teachers that I remember making an impact and actually some of them. You know, via Facebook. I still talk to, but I don't remember it necessarily being presented or maybe having somebody in my life that I'd feel comfortable reaching out to and being like, Hey, you know, would you be available for this? I'm lucky in the sense that I had five generations in my family at one time. So I have sort of the family aspect of it, where I was lucky to have known, many different, powerful women that were very strong minded and were. Able to pass down lessons that way. I think for my daughter's friend group, I try to create that situation where they can always come to me about things like that. Did you have a mentor aside from Lucille growing up?

Judy: 44:55

Yeah, I don't think I had appreciated quite as much until the passing of my high school band director. He passed unfortunately of COVID and I really was just crushed and completely didn't expect that to happen. I gave quite a few talks that I have either dedicated to him or I've included some of the things that he taught me and just be brief. I was not a very good French horn player. My mother wanted me to play the French horn. I was dyslexic and didn't know it, but the. Nightmare for a dis dyslexic is sheet music and, just the things would just float all over the page. I just couldn't grasp what I was. I don't know. I just couldn't grasp it. He didn't make fun of me. He didn't tell me to quit when I wasn't very good at something. He was very encouraging and I also had this really odd thing and I don't have it anymore, but I had a really hard time marching and remembering which way was left and right. it sounds so crazy, but it was just something that was kind of happening to me as a teenager. It could have had something to do with dyslexia. I don't know. And just, trying to remember what I'm supposed to be playing. I gotta hold this horn. I gotta March this way and count all the same time. I just. Thought, he gave such a high expectation for me to succeed that it helped me believe in myself. I think people will live up to the expectation that we set for them. He very easily could have said, Judy, band's not for you. And sorry. It was very, I mean, the band, the golden pride of Cleveland high is world renowned. I mean, we went and performed in Australia. So the fact that I was able to be part of something when I wasn't excellent at that, but it was still okay. I still was able to. Live up somewhat to the expectation he would set because he'd just start raising the bar a little bit more and a little bit more and, it taught me a lot and I've used a lot of the lessons that he taught me with employees and just kind of what I'm going to set the expectation and encourage them and give them every opportunity to succeed. That's just a beautiful way to mentor someone. My parents had divorced. So he kind of was a bit of a father figure, I think, to a lot of the members of the band, maybe didn't even recognize to what extent, but It really came through at his passing. I mean, the pouring out was in the stories from other students. I certainly was not alone in my thoughts and feelings about how I was treated by such an incredible person.

Ashley: 47:52

The impact that people could have on each other. So unintentionally, without realizing that it's gonna make a mark, something as simple as, encouraging people to continue. being able to recognize the potential in people, especially as a teacher, I think is such a gift and I'm happy that everybody was able to connect with each other and share additional stories. So that you all really realized how beautiful the impact would be on their legacy.

Judy: 48:24

One thing that was also quite interesting is the stories were so different and people talking about their childhood, maybe they were crazy poor. We didn't know it, you know, or they had an abusive home life or they had you all these incredible things going on in their home and how he had just been such a bright light in a dark teenage life to so many people. But also been funny and strict all at the same time, like all of these things all the same time, but to hear these stories, I hope, and I pray that that teachers will be more like the decalumcamps of the world. I know we've gotten away from these kind of teacher, student relationships, but I think they're so important. They're so important. You know, set the bar for those students, but disciplined firmly, but with love, I mean, and there's no doubt in anybody's mind. And this went on for generations that all of those people had felt loved and their children benefited so much from the experience they had with this particular band director. So it, again was one of those things where it wasn't just affecting like me, it affected my children because of. The way he was patient with me or the way he, pushed me, I pushed my kids the same way, but pushed them in a loving way and set that expectation high and always thought they could do more than that. Maybe they thought they could. You know, I'll give you enough encouragement and belief until you can yourself believe in yourself. So if we could add a little bit more of that into our school districts, I think we'll see generations really blossom.

Ashley: 50:13

I definitely agree. I think as a parent, we can try to model the behavior that we want. We can try to, you know, tell our kids, all these things, but sometimes hearing them from another person, especially like in their teens, it really sinks into them a different way. Like outside sources can be so impactful. So when teachers are able to take on that mentorship role, or just be able to get the kids at the right spot, it really does create a generational impact

Judy: 50:46

We have 10 children and we have some educators in the mix and with the current situation, I fear and maybe this is my older generation speaking, but I fear that we're so tied up in political issues that we're forgetting some of the things that just happen in the teenage world in life that we need to focus on. There's so much insecurity when you're a teenager. There's so much fear there's hormones, raging, just remembering your locker code for goodness sake and your homework and keeping your head on straight is so important. But then now we tend to throw in and complicate things even further. I wouldn't wanna be a teenager today. So how can we simplify the message to our kids that you are loved. You are smart and I'm gonna help you succeed. How do we just get back to the basics of that message? Because I think that's the message. We can't forget about that. We can't get everything so muddy with all these other things that we're talking about, that we lose the basics of what teenagers need at the very core of being a teenager.

Ashley: 52:05

We need to let them off the hook. I think a lot of times we are so hard on teenagers, whether we're criticizing the attitudes or the not remembering or all of the things involved that it's really remembering everything that you just said where it's like brain development and hormones and stress. It's almost like they're gigantic two year olds. And we kind of have to treat them the same way, obviously a little bit more responsibility, but they aren't necessarily in a place where they can take all of the things that we expect from them all at once. So it really is being simple and being gentle and being understanding

Judy: 52:43

We know that the prefrontal cortex of the brain is not developed until into the twenties and we're treating 13, 14, 15, even 18 and 19 year olds. Like they can make. Decisions and always make the right decision. And if you don't make the right decision, there's dire consequences, instead of, I'm gonna call your mom or we're gonna handle this at school and you're gonna have some kind of punishment at school. And I often have said, and I've said this to my kids. If I did the things that I did as a teenager, you know, 16 year old Judy Gammon then Judy Grieve, if I would've done those things I probably would've been expelled. I mean, I can't even maybe arrested. I don't know. I mean, I grew in a small town, Texas, and we did things. We got into trouble. we were mischievous and we got in trouble when we, got into trouble, but it wasn't to the extent that it is now. And when we made mistakes, I almost feel like my mother or the teacher could look at me wrong. And that was enough punishment because I didn't wanna disappoint them. You didn't want to have that fear or the fear of not living up to, you know, really what the expectation was, but it wasn't because I was afraid of going to jail or I was afraid of getting expelled. I think there was more of a fear of this person thinks I do good things, so I don't wanna do bad things and make them think bad of me. Does, does that make sense?

Ashley: 54:24

It does. It's that human connection that we once had where when that's sort of shifting, I feel like sometimes with younger generations, it's, did I go viral and embarrass myself means a little bit more than, my mom gave me that like stern talking to, I think that the human connection piece of really relying on each other and disappointing each other and having that, I wanna make this person happy, I think is something that we grew up with. That is something that is changing. I think that that's where teachers nowadays, we do need to still, Have that connection with teens or look for that connection while being completely burnt out and trying to balance like all of the other things that they have to do. But I think it it's really building that connection with people and having those relationships so that we still feel like our opinions and how people perceive us is still important.

Judy: 55:23

I agree. There's so much, we could say there's so much about all of this, is the deeper issues of our society. But if we lead well as individuals, I feel that's the first step lead. Well as an individual lead your life, well, be responsible for your own actions, be responsible for your own goals and take charge of your life then. I think that is the first step. If we had more people doing that, and we were encouraging others to do that as well. Boy we could get somewhere.

Ashley: 55:53

I definitely agree. And Judy, I really appreciate you having this conversation with me today. Can you let everybody know if they are looking for you online, where they can find you?

Judy: 56:03

Yeah, absolutely. JudyGaman.com, J U D Y GAMAN dot com. And of course you can always look us up at executive medicine of Texas and that's em, texas.com.

Ashley: 56:16

Perfect. Thank you so much.

Judy: 56:19

Oh, it's been a pleasure. Thank you.

56:22

Thank you so much for joining us today for this episode of the filled up cup podcast, don't forget to hit subscribe and leave a review. If you like what you hear, you can also connect with us@filledupcup.com. Thanks again for tuning in and we'll catch you in the next episode.