Ep. 81 Michele Phillips

On this episode I am joined by Michele Phillips. Michele is a wife and mom of 5. She is a content creator and blogger behind What Dreams May Become. We discuss her decision to get breast implants and her journey with breast implant illness. We talk about the symptoms of BII, what an explant surgery was like and how she found the healing process to be. 

What Dreams May Become - Vancouver Mom Blog
Michele Phillips (@whatdreamsmaybecome) • Instagram photos and videos
Bright & spacious home w/ hot tub. Close to beach! - Houses for Rent in Blaine, Washington, United States - Airbnb

Ashley (@filledupcup_) • Instagram photos and videos
Filled Up Cup - Unconventional Self Care for Modern Women

Transcript

0:00

Welcome to the Filled Up Cup podcast. We are a different kind of self care resource, one that has nothing to do with bubble baths and face masks, and everything to do with rediscovering yourself. We bring you real reviews, honest experiences, and unfiltered opinions that will make you laugh, cry, and most importantly, leave you with a filled up cup.

Ashley: 0:31

I am so excited. I have Michelle Phillips joining me today. Michelle is a content creator and has a blog, What Dreams May Become. She's also an Airbnb super host. She has a property in Blaine, Washington. Today, we are going to talk about breast implants and breast implant illness. Just as a disclaimer, neither one of us are medical professionals, and we're just sharing from our own personal experience. Thank you so much for being here today.

Michele: 0:56

Aw, thank you for having me, Ashley. I'm so excited to be here and talk to you today.

Ashley: 1:01

Can you tell me what made you decide to get breast implants?

Michele: 1:05

Yeah. I think that I grew up in a family with my sisters, everyone was really busty. I grew up in the culture with the Britney Spears. And I think that that was the look and that's what, you know, you're starting to go through puberty. And I was like, so jealous of all these friends that had big boobs. And it was almost like an obsession. I just never felt comfortable with what they looked like. And then I also had inverted nipples, so it created another sort of level of insecurity. so I was 19 and I was getting married and all that. So when I initially went in to talk to a plastic surgeon, that's sort of what I went in to talk about was the inverted nipple surgery and. That actually is quite invasive. You have to get put under you have to dig in there. So then at that time I thought, well, I hate my boobs. I want bigger breasts. I was like, if I'm going under anyways, I might as well just do all of it. So I had them for 17 years. For 10 years, I'd say I had no issues that it, you know, I loved my boobs I think what kind of got convoluted in like my journey of when I got sick was that I had five kids I had them in six years, the last set was twins. I don't know if it was something that like propelled my symptoms, but I feel like it could have because. And we're not medical experts, but I do believe that when your immune system or when you're under a lot of wear and tear is sort of when you just don't know when these symptoms will pop up. The crazy amount of sleep deprivation is sort of when I think I can kind of base it on when it started to happen and my symptoms were just very generic and. I thought it was because I had five kids in six years. So I blamed a lot of it on that. So it's hard to know exactly when it started for me, so then all of a sudden my kids all started sleeping through the night all of a sudden. They're all in school. I'm having my days and I was like, I'm actually getting sicker. I'm getting sicker and I'm getting sicker and I'm getting sicker. What is going on with me and sort of the final thing for me was that my hair started to fall out I went on to social media and had someone reach out and I hope that I'm not bugging you and it was someone that I just feel like there's like angels out there in life sometimes and you never know who is going to touch your life or like who that person is going to be and she was just a gentle soul that was like, I listened to her and she talked to, you know, maybe your symptoms are, I want you to look up breast implant illness. And I was like, it's not, no. And I think it's, have you had an explant? Yes, you have. Yeah. So you'll kind of know, and maybe you are different than me, but I know that I was in total denial because I love my boobs. I didn't want to get rid of that look. I didn't want to go through surgery. I didn't want to replace them. I didn't want to deal with any of that. So there's a lot of denial that happens. And I think it was like, no, no, no, no, no. It's this or it's this or it's this. But I listened to her and she told me to go to a Facebook page. I Think it's, what is, you might know it too. It's breast implant illness by Nicole. Is that the one?

Ashley: 4:28

Yeah, that's one of them. There is lots of them.

Michele: 4:31

There's so many now. I think I started reading them and I started hearing women's stories. That Facebook page saved by life because. All of a sudden people were writing things and I thought, oh my gosh, for once, finally, someone is saying what I'm going through, I'm not crazy, I'm not making this up, and I actually feel like I'm a really tough cookie and I'm dying, like what is going on with my body right now, and there was no denying the most random symptoms that I had were like nothing that I had ever heard before, and it was all lining up to everything that these women were saying, and I felt like for once, someone was understanding what I was walking through, and I'm so grateful for that Facebook page, which was the propeller to kind of get me looking into explants. It is really frustrating

Ashley: 5:25

because. Breast implant illness isn't recognized as a legitimate medical condition. As women, I think commonly, we kind of gaslight ourselves. Oh, I'm sure it's because my period is coming. I'm sure it's because I'm getting older. I'm sure it's because the stress of having kids. And it's like, we think about all of these other options than what it could be. And if you go to the doctor, it's not even on their radar to ask Do you have any implants in your body? Could it potentially be that? I feel like people hear about breast implant illness from the most random places, and I'm so grateful for social media because I think that's been a catalyst. But it's like, yeah, you could go to your doctor, and they would suggest that it's They'll give you like pills for depression or they'll send you off for all of these tests and you're spending sometimes hundreds and thousands of dollars to try to get your health back but I just wish that they would look at the most like obvious symptom of things and bring up that conversation because it can be really isolating and you legitimately feel like it's a slow death like your symptoms can literally feel like you're dying.

Michele: 6:31

Absolutely. I think that I look at it now. I've had my explant for two and a half years. When did you get yours done?

Ashley: 6:37

Last May. So I'm about 18 months.

Michele: 6:40

So I do think, you know, I try to give the medical world, some grace because I do think that implants have been around for, I actually don't have a number on that, but it is a newer thing and I think a conversation around all implanted devices now, and I think that that's a whole other sort of conversation and I think I'm really grateful for my doctor because Of course, she didn't think it was my implant. She had never even heard of that. But I do feel really grateful because she did believe me. She did believe that I was feeling sick. She was trying to do everything she could to figure out what was sort of going on with my body. When I presented it to her, she didn't laugh at it. She did believe me. And she said, I don't know anything about that, but you know what I mean? And so I am really. I am grateful that and she's a younger doctor. So I am grateful that I did have that experience. I don't feel like no one was listening to me. I went years and years and years of being sick and my doctor wasn't listening to me, which I do believe happens so much. So I am really grateful for that. And, you know, to touch on what you said about the slow death it absolutely is. I. Can't even imagine where I would be today and like I think gratitude among all of it because I really don't know where I would be today and probably you had there not been social media had someone not reached out that day and given me that nudge and push just a little further and ask that really sensitive question because it is sort of a private thing and I'm actually so open book but you know what I mean for someone else to sort of ask that question so I think I'm so glad that these conversations are happening and I'm so glad that women are talking about this I don't know your thoughts on it, but even the IUDs, I think there's so many issues now for women with IUDs and. anything implanted. It's a lot.

Ashley: 8:39

We don't really think about the impacts of having anything foreign in our body, whether it's like dental work and metals, whether it's an IUD, all of it really, I think there needs to be a lot more conversations and there needs to be a lot more research. It becomes a status quo. Oh, we've done, you know, 75 million implants. I'm sure they're fine or it keeps working. So let's keep doing it and really kind of see both sides of it. And just my wish would really be like transparency. And so I don't know about you, like even just thinking about breast implants. When I went into the doctor. Basically the only thing that I was warned about the scar tissue that forms around the breast as if it could happen, but again, that pretty much happens with every single implant that's put in, but there wasn't really the conversations about any other risks that are involved. And thankfully now they do have a black box warning. So I don't know if people go in to get breast implants now if they have to be told but I know we even didn't have a discussion when I first put them in like I think a lot of the times I had mine for 12 years. That there wasn't really a discussion when I got them in the first time thinking, Oh yeah, they aren't lifetime devices. I am going to have to get them switched out. That I wasn't really thinking from the day that I got them in that it would potentially be multiple surgeries.

Michele: 9:57

Oh yeah. I didn't think that either. I didn't even go there. Like, what do you do when you're 60? Are you going to 70, 80? Are you going to keep that a hundred percent, a hundred percent.

Ashley: 10:08

And even to have them out, basically like capsulectomies and en blocs and explants in general are relatively new and it can be really difficult to find doctors that do it. So if you do go to the doctor and you're like, Hey, I've had them for five years. Should we discuss switching them out or taking them out? The conversations I've seen are always, okay, let's re implant with something else. It's not really seems to be an option that they're like, yep, let's definitely take them out unless you're seeking a doctor for that. So that's kind of something to consider if you are. wanting implants that not only are you going to have to have multiple surgeries, but that the surgery to get them in is also significantly different from the surgery to get them out.

Michele: 10:51

Absolutely. I don't know about you, but I definitely was underprepared for. How hard that surgery was. I almost fainted the first night and we thought the kids could just be gone for a night and the kids had to be gone for two nights because it was a major surgery. I think. two and a half years out, I think it's like a grieving process and the whole thing is such a process because first of all, you're trying to get your health back. Secondly, you're dealing with breasts that look different, that have scars that have numbness that are healing. They look different in bathing suits. They're not going to see this, but I am wearing my triple cup pushup bra. They do not look like this without my bra. I think still I'm struggling cause I clearly do like the look of full breasts. There's a journey. There's so much around this, I came out of my surgery I wouldn't say I was angry, I was very grateful, but just so against them, like, you know, I felt so burned by five years of my life that I could never get back because, you know, when you've got loved, you have kids. Yeah, I do. My daughter's 16. Yeah, so you know how fragile those times are and those moments and feeling like you're a shell of yourself and, you're barely putting two feet in front of you. There's so much guilt around Feeling like you're not able to be the mom that you could have been in some situations because you're literally feel like you're dying and I think I was so done with them and wouldn't recommend them to my worst enemy and I was putting memes out there, you know, my funniest one is like that meme where it's like So you're telling me that, when you're buried and if they, dug you up 30 years later, like, you'd be a bones with your implants sitting there. If that doesn't resonate with you, that this is not okay for your body, then I don't know if the earth can even make it go away. Right. What can, right? So, anyways, and then people got really mad at me and, really offended. And it's really interesting to me because I do believe that, like I said to you, that women It's a very sensitive subject. Women they like their breasts. I've talked to women too, where it's almost this, proud factor, like, Oh, mine don't make me sick. Oh, mine are perfect. Yours weren't. Sorry! That's also an interesting sort of thing that I found as well. I will say to people, not everybody gets sick from these. And, just because you're sick or you have some symptoms, you know, don't feel like you also need to just rip them out either. There's so many things that it could be. I think for women, our health it's just different than for men's.

Ashley: 13:35

I think women's health isn't necessarily taken as seriously or there does seem to be. I think a gap between maybe things that we have to deal with that men have to deal with there's lots of fantastic doctors out there don't get me wrong but being able to see your GP and then being able to see a specialist in a timely manner and then getting the test results and then I feel like it's so frustrating for a lot of women because we're told that the labs are normal and it's like but they're not so I almost feel We need to look at how we look at labs in a different way and again, it just not being the status quo, we need to really look at the root of the issue instead of the symptoms, which I feel like most Western medicine is taught to look at the symptoms and not the root. But I think it's really hard because I think, like say post surgery, we all get breast implants for a reason that it can be really devastating. That once you have them and you love them to know that essentially they're killing you and attacking you and that you do have to get rid of them.

Michele: 14:33

100%.

Ashley: 14:35

So even once you realize like, Hey, this isn't going well, it's not an easy switch to be like, I'm just going to get them out. A lot of women will wait two, three, four years and really decide. I think we're sold that how we look and our breasts specifically are meant to define us in a way that. They really, they don't have to or they shouldn't, but I feel like we are sold that we're supposed to look this way. And then that gives us confidence or all of the things that we perceive will change once we have them, that I think it is really hard. And I think it is something that comes with layers. I'm really glad that there is a lot of therapy options and things like that, because it isn't as simple as like, I got them out. It's totally fine. Because it's a lot of like, I shouldn't have done this to myself, or I know for me, my daughter was two when I got them in, and essentially I ran out of energy, I couldn't get out of bed certain days, so the times where she was really little, and I should have been like, Chasing her at the playground were days where we won't ever get that back. So there is a lot of guilt, a lot of shame. It's a lot of money too. So I know for me, absolutely that like 15, 000 that it cost me to take them out. I'm like that could have bought so many other things. So there's a lot of kidding.

Michele: 15:53

Absolutely. Emotion. So I think anger is very normal. Yes, absolutely. I think it says a lot that women are taking these out because of what you just said, the fact that we are taking these out for how much they cost for the scars, the surgery, the pain, the post op to essentially, and this is, you know, can be taken two ways, look worse is it goes to show you how desperate we are to feel better. I think that for me the deciding factor was I will not go through another summer with my Children feeling like I'm going to die. Feeling like I'm taking every ounce of strength. I have to just show up and be the mom that they need. So mine was on June 1st and then the surgery is harder than you think. And you know, so was that summer, rainbows and butterflies. It was not, but this last summer was great. The fact that women are doing this for how much it costs with. All these things and still going through with it shows you just how sick we are,

Ashley: 16:57

When we talk about feeling like we're dying, I know for me, my migraines. It became basically like I would get one every couple of months. It was pretty much like every three weeks I had allergies to things. I'd never had allergies. I was having GI issues where like constantly in the bathroom. I had such bad inflammation that I struggled to go up and down my stairs. Like it literally would just avoid going upstairs if I have to. I could barely walk around the block and I was 23 when I got them in. I was 37 when I got them out. So that age gap. Realistically, I should be able to run up and down 100

Michele: 17:40

percent 100%.

Ashley: 17:42

My hair was falling out. It was turning gray. The depression, the

Michele: 17:46

anxiety, the yes, yes, yes, I'm so sorry. So, oh, and like talking to you, I'm like, honey, I feel you. I feel you because it's so that thing in life that you don't know something unless you walk through it. And so I think, walking through things that are hard. You have to come out of them. Like, well, we walked it. It was muddy and it was. Terrible, but we're on the other side. Thank God. I feel like it just changes you as a person because if someone came to you now, I'm sure like me and they're like, Oh, I'm having, I can't feel something this or my health. You'd be like, Oh my gosh, I'm going to listen. I believe you. I believe you, you know what I mean? I think I want to tell you about my symptoms too, because I think, and I have a whole list and it's so interesting. I wrote a list. So I was like, I don't want to forget all of these weird symptoms. And what was the weirdest one that I had that, that someone wrote it? And I was like, Oh my gosh. So the biggest thing being waking up every day feeling hungover, like I was dying. I couldn't get out of bed. And, you know, in the peak of my sickness, I had never struggled with mental health. I had five kids. I never had postpartum, which. You know, everyone has their own journey, but all of a sudden I started getting mental health issues my anxiety. I would be like, I'm in the garden. I'm in my garden and I have anxiety. I think it's really interesting because, you know, here I was on Instagram with. My beautiful family and my White House and meanwhile, I am dealing with so many health struggles that are silent that nobody can see because I don't even understand what's happening. I don't even feel comfortable being like, I have anxiety in my garden! So I think it's just a reminder too that, as you go through life or you go on social media or you see things that, you never know the road that someone is walking or the road that, someone's gone down. I think it's just a reminder that there's so many people hurting out there and there's so much behind every pretty picture, I think that I would have been so comfortable saying that too, because I am an open book, but I just didn't know how to say something because I thought I was going crazy.

Ashley: 19:57

I think it is a really good reminder that. You know, Instagram and other platforms do end up being a highlight reel that, we all are battling something that sometimes it can be hard to get caught up in it. It's like what you're saying, you're going through mental health issues while having what would seem to somebody else's like this perfect existence.

Michele: 20:17

Absolutely.

Ashley: 20:17

It's a situation where everything can be both. Like I think we're not all one thing. But it's also hard with social media because if you had posted saying, you know, I have anxiety in my garden, then it's like, you're going to get 50 people being like, 100%.

Michele: 20:34

There's no winning in that conversation. 100%.

Ashley: 20:37

When you had decided to explant, was it hard finding a doctor that would be comfortable taking them out?

Michele: 20:45

Well, I think like for you and I don't know, I think it was on the pages. I think there was a local Facebook group, too. So when I started sort of researching it, I kept seeing Aaron Brown's name and so when I started researching him then I went in for a consult so there's two parts to the story. I'm like a huge, huge, huge researcher. I wanted someone that had done a lot of them. I wanted someone that. Would take the capsules out. I wanted someone that would take the photos because I know that I would be like, did they get all the capsules? Did they, did they, did they, did they? I think he just dotted all the lines that I personally needed. And it was really nice cause it was convenient and he actually lives up the street for me, which is super rando, but I think it just worked and I was happy with it. It's so interesting, the ripple effect, you know, I know so many people now from my story that have gotten theirs out and they can just see their plastic surgeon that put them in, that will take them out, that does very similar job. I think that this is becoming more of a normal surgery now for plastic surgeons. That they are comfortable now taking these out where I feel like two years ago, that wasn't what it was today. Do you feel like that?

Ashley: 22:02

I definitely do. And I do like, hearing that it is more common for plastic surgeons, because I do think that People should just be given the option. And I know with me, I chose Aaron Brown more because it was local. I didn't want to travel anywhere. Yeah. I had such fear because I felt like my health was so bad. I was terrified going into the surgery that I wasn't gonna survive it. Oh my gosh. It was more of that I think was In my head, then obviously if I was really so bad off, the doctor wouldn't have actually done a surgery on it, but I was so panicked and so worried about it that I know for me, I was happy to be able to not have to commute. I could go home after

Michele: 22:43

100 percent 100%. Because I think even when you and I were looking, I know that there was women flying to the States. There was like another plastic surgeon. I want to say like Edmonton or somewhere in there. There was like a few nichey doctors that you could go to and he happened to live in our town. I do think that that has changed now, but 2. 5 years ago, like, this is propelling now. I really do think that there's traction happening now and they're probably taking more than they're putting in. I would think at this point. It's so interesting because I have nieces and just seeing the difference in how women see themselves now and you have a 16 year old daughter and I think that I'm going to talk so differently to my kids. I feel like you're the same age as me with when you're saying you got your implants out and stuff. We're just growing up in a different generation that a lot of times is scarier, but also there's so much good, you know, I have nieces that one of her sisters has really big boobs and the other one has really small boobs. And she's like, Oh, so glad I got the small boobs because it's like on trend now. it's so interesting to me how that's changed. And I am seeing now, interestingly enough, you know, you watch TV and they'll have like, But like, there'll be a stripper in the background and she doesn't have implants anymore. It's changing, it's actually like not trendy to have big implants anymore. And if you have them, I'm not judging. It's like you do you and I always will love big boobies, but I'm just saying it's just shifted. You know, it really has shifted our mindset.

Ashley: 24:17

It totally has, and I really credit things like TikTok and Instagram for that, because again, when we were growing up, for me it was like the Pamela Anderson, or like the Jenny McCarthy, and it was really like playboy, playmate, this is the one body type that you have to fit in to be desirable, and I think over the years, it's like, Whatever your interests are, they'll be like an anime character for that, or like the Kardashians for that, or whoever, but it's such a variety of bodies now that it doesn't feel like you have to fit in one. To be a certain way that it's more like whatever you have going on, you can make that work for you.

Michele: 24:54

Absolutely.

Ashley: 24:55

Like the small breast girlies, things that you just don't think about having big boobs, like my back had never hurt that much. Oh my gosh. Yes. boob sweat. Like it just never occurred to me.

Michele: 25:05

Chronic, chronic back pain,

Ashley: 25:09

there's always the other side of that coin, like, yes, I loved the way that they fit in tops. I definitely miss like that hard full shape of them or that feel of them compared to now. But even for women that were just born with big boobs, like there are some like disadvantages or advantages ones that there is no perfect

Michele: 25:29

There isn't. And I feel really good about clothing and all that. But I will say the biggest thing that I struggle with is bathing suits. That's the one for me that I've got so much self work, just trying to like, they just don't look as good in a bathing suit. Those implants you throw in a little bikini. So that's the one for me those growing pains of really loving yourself. And I think it's actually a really unique journey. There's a lot in this explant journey because first of all, you're trying to get better. In a lot of cases, you are feeling better, but there's also a recovery journey. I don't know what it was like for you, but mine was hills and valleys. And there was some things that went away instantly. Like the feeling of death when I woke up, never came back, never have once woken up, maybe if I had a lot of wine, but I also went through stages where my exhaustion was through the roof. I was sleeping and rushing to get the kids from school and still trying to go walk up the stairs. That stair walking thing is so interesting to me. And I would have moment and I'd go up the stairs and be like, Oh my gosh, my husband's name is Steve. Steve. I just walked up the stairs and I don't know what yours felt like. It felt like I couldn't walk up the stairs without feeling like my muscles were fatiguing. And I think like, even you saying that to me today, I'm like realizing, I can walk up the stairs right now. I do believe how your symptoms come on is how your symptoms leave and mine just creeped up on me and mine are creeping out of me. If you're listening to this and you're having an explant, you're going to get an explant. Please be patient with yourself, especially if you've had them for a long time, because your body really has gone through hell and back. I think there was moments where I thought, it didn't work, it didn't work! I can say two and a half years out that there is no reflection. In any way, shape, or form to what the woman I was the day that I went in for surgery. And in fact, the day I went in for surgery, I was in the mirror and I was so exhausted. I was pregnant with twins. Okay. There was no exhaustion that met this exhaustion. I remember just being like, honestly. If I don't wake up, I don't care because I'm out of my misery and someone that loves their kids and family, that is the place that I was at when I went into that surgery. I couldn't wait to get knocked out. In fact, I was like, that's how I got through it. I thought that I'd be scared or nervous. I actually got to a place where I was like, get me out of my misery! Knock me out! I am out for a bit guys, like, see ya! Mama needs a break, like, maybe don't wake me up. That's how dark this road can go, right?

Ashley: 28:04

Did you find, other than the exhaustion, when you first woke up from surgery, was there anything that you had sort of noticed immediately after?

Michele: 28:14

I think it's funny because I had some people be like, well, hopefully that's what's going on. And I was like, Yeah, oh didn't think about that. I think I knew in my heart that it was what was going on and I even have people today that I will say this and I don't know if you've had this like I'm actually very quiet with who I talk to about this because if you talk to someone that doesn't understand this they're not believing you. Even though I've gone through it, I've had the surgery, I've come out the other side and say that my symptoms are better, I think because you look the same. That people don't believe it still. It's very, very interesting. And people be like, Oh, do you think you're just depressed? Do you think that you were just this? And I'm like, Oh, I'm actually not comfortable. We're going to just stop there because you're not understanding. And that's okay. I don't expect you to understand. But. No, and then I have to like go back like, no, this was real. I did go through this. I am feeling better. Like, oh, right. Sorry to go back to your initial question. I think I woke up and first of all, I got a surgery and I was in 10 of pain. I was like. Oh my gosh, hard to wake up. So I got a lot of drugs before I left. That would be the only thing I would say is that you're getting kicked out, which I wish that there was a bit more time to recover. at The surgical center I was not really ready to go home. I do think that I posted a photo, I was like, this is the best I've ever felt in 10 years! I laugh at that, I'm like, I was just heavily drugged. But, it's hard to know because you're on Tylenol and everything. But like you said, those headaches, I was having chronic headaches all the time. I think that the initial things within the first. Six weeks for my eyes got brighter. I took a photo. It was like dying eyes. And then six days later, my eyes were clear and bright, which was insane. My skin cleared, like I was having boils. All over my face, my husband always be like, you've had a zit on your face, like, in the nicest way, we've been married a long time, you always have a zit on your face since I met you, and I'm like, great, which, I didn't have implants right before I met him, but I was also young, so that instantly went away, and the feeling of death instantly went away I'm trying to think of other things, The back pain, the chronic back pain. I was having chest pain too, where I felt like my muscles were all ripping and that chronic neck, back, chest pain, headaches, acne, stuff like that.

Ashley: 30:43

I know for me, I can breathe better. Like that was the first thing when I woke up out of surgery that I took the deepest breath and I couldn't believe. And again, I was fully drugged up, so the pain fully hadn't hit in, but I was surprised that I could open my chest up as much as I could, but I ended up having my surgery at ARH instead of the surgical center.

Michele: 31:03

Oh, you did? How come?

Ashley: 31:05

So because I'm of a certain size, they had to do it in case there was any risks.

Michele: 31:10

And then how big were the implants that you got?

Ashley: 31:13

650 CCs. So they were, yeah, I had double D's. I was like an A cup to begin with and I had like massive.

Michele: 31:22

So I know it's wonder you breathe. Oh gosh. Yeah.

Ashley: 31:26

Good. I had them under the muscle too, so my surgery, I had the explant, I had a lift and then I had a little bit of side boob lipo. I probably would do more side boob stuff because I feel like there was so much skin, even with what he took off. That they're still feel like they're kind of going this way.

Michele: 31:43

Yeah, and here's my thing about plastic surgery. I think two and a half years out of this, I think right off the bat, I hated them and I wouldn't recommend them to anybody. I was making jokes about them now sort of seeing it in new lights and stuff. I would say to people, I understand, wanting to look. Better if something's really bothering you and is a huge insecurity, it's okay to want to fix it. This is just my view, only my view. I think obviously being so good with who you are and really. Doing some deep work around that insecurity, but if it's something you're really insecure about, I mean, like, anything, like, say, your nose, or I understand why people want to do it, and I'm not opposed to it. But knowing now what we know about any implanted thing, a lot of people are doing implanted chins, implanted cheekbones, like I said, the IUDs, blah, blah, blah, knowing that this could happen. And that's what I say to everybody. Like people like, Oh, I wanted breast implants and now I'm not going to do it. Or, and I'm like, don't do it. But you know what I mean? I think just being realistic, like what happens when you're 75. And you're due to have them out and they're 20 years old, what are you going to do? Are you going to go through a surgery at 80 and then get this explant I think thinking that way. Cause I, and I think that you've said this before, that wasn't a thought that crossed your mind. It definitely didn't cross my mind. The risks like this could happen to you. I know that. Our plastic surgeon is still doing implants, which, you know, I get it. That's where the money is too. And some people still want them, but I'm grateful that he does talk about breast implant illness, and I know that if you get them done by him, that that conversation is being had. So that people know that that is a risk and knowing the signs, knowing the symptoms, because it's like anything in life, you can drive down the road, know your risks, if you do this, know your risk, this could happen. And so I'm glad these conversations are happening and that women finally figured it out and what breaks my heart and I don't know if you see this on these pages, but there'll be women on there, they're 80, and they're like, I've lost 30 years of my life. That would have been you and I if we didn't know about this, where would we be today? So I'm just like, oh my gosh Thank goodness. These conversations are happening.

Ashley: 34:11

I think the other part of it is too It's like when you are thinking about surgery and gotten the breast implants and you're like, I love them. I wanted them fine I think it's also understanding that we have this like oh, but it'll happen to you. It won't happen to me That it's like you really have to kind of question that a little bit and be like, if you want them and you know all the risks and you're getting them, fine, totally, like, I just want transparency there. But I think that we do also have to be realistic when we're thinking both sides for the people that are like, oh, this just happens to other people or that's just so and so story that it really is so common. I wish that there was more research into it to see why it affects certain people, whether it's. blood type, whether it's something about our history. And even when it comes to healing, like a lot of things can disappear right away, but it really can be that in some cases, you're locking your health into being longterm. Like I got Hashimoto's after, which will be another thing to sort of have to solve. And I ended up with a cyst in my back that Essentially, inflammation is the root cause of it, so I don't directly know that it's connected to the implants, but it seems logical that it would be, so it's also like you could be sort of damning yourself to long term health issues that don't necessarily go away.

Michele: 35:33

Absolutely, and that we don't know the ripple effect. Of all of that, you know, and I think, like we said, women's health is so complex and I don't know why it is, but there's a lot going on,

Ashley: 35:46

I love the fact that there is so many people like you that are brave and are sharing your story so that somebody else. will hear it and go, Oh, I never thought about that or I never thought that could be connected to this and just really open people's minds about it so that they can have that conversation with their doctor, that they can have a conversation with maybe a plastic surgeon and see if it's right for them, because I just don't want to see other people go through what we had to go through.

Michele: 36:15

It's so interesting because I actually had a girlfriend. Bring it up before this person on Instagram messaged me, I did have a girlfriend say it to me the year before that she said something like, do you think it's your implants? I know someone that had this and bop, bop, bop, bop, bop. And I was like, no, no, it's not my implants. People have had implants for how many years? It's not my implants. And I do think that conversation three years ago, I do feel like we are making so many leaps and bounds with. Breast implant illness. I do think that, especially TikTok, they're like, oh my gosh, all I'm seeing is these breast implant illness, TikToks. So, through the power of social media, these stories are being shared. I do think that most should know that it could potentially be a risk now, you know, whether or not they want to believe it or not is a whole other thing. I

Ashley: 37:10

also think that if you're somebody who is going to a surgeon, you're wanting information, you're maybe having a consultation about getting surgery. If a surgeon tells you they are a hundred percent safe, that breast implant illness isn't real, that your solution would just be to re implant. Please seek other professionals. Absolutely. Absolutely. I ran into that quite a bit with doctors in Vancouver when I was considering my explant and I just don't understand how they can say that with A straight face or with any professional ethics make sure that when you go in to talk to doctors that you are getting, I don't know, real information or that they are being as open with you of all of the things that could happen so that when you do hear people sharing their stories to know that we're not, making it up or that it really wasn't that it was like a women's issue or like a different issue that you know, Even though breast implant illness isn't necessarily medically recognized by professionals, when you listen to so many of our stories and it's sharing so many similar symptoms or similar experiences, it's like you have to trust, and I totally get trust when you're ready, but trust that women aren't just making this up.

Michele: 38:29

No, I agree. I do feel really good about where breast implant illness is I do think that five years from now, it's going to look a lot different. I do believe it will be recognized, in some form or way, because I think there is a question like, Okay. What is the cause? They don't know, but they're trying to kind of piece together and I know our plastic surgeon, he did a podcast, actually, with my friend Maree Froese, and she's got a really interesting breast implant illness story that she had heard about it before, but after I got mine, was sort of the propelling factor yet again, that they'd be like, oh my gosh, no, like, this could be it, and So glad I shared my story because it is, it is really vulnerable, especially when you have a social media platform of like, you're like, Oh, I had implants and now they're coming out and here's photos of my drains and, I've been sick, but didn't tell you guys and, you know, all that kind of stuff. But her story is actually unbelievable too. She was having joint pain. Like she couldn't walk. She had a fitness studio. She. Was going to every single doctor, every single thing. She couldn't get pregnant. She was losing babies. Within six weeks of having her implants out, she had no pain. Like, gone, diminished, never came back, and got pregnant. We don't even know the effect that these have on us. mine is a very, Hidden message because I think again, I looked fine, nothing change that like seeing is believing, which is so hard sometimes, but for her, hers was like, you saw it, you believed it because she couldn't walk. She couldn't get pregnant. Here she was six weeks later, pregnant, walking again. Right.

Ashley: 40:11

It's a great reminder that. You know, not necessarily that it was a disability, but like hidden illnesses, hidden disabilities, that it doesn't make them any less valid, we do need to stop judging people by the cover because we just really don't know. And it is really. Awesome. And a really big blessing to see that she was able to get to the other half of it because again, it's like to feel like our bodies are attacking us, but we don't know why or how it's an awful feeling to be stuck inside your body when that's going on.

Michele: 40:42

Yeah, absolutely. I think the mental health component, I've thought about that a lot, you know, because like I said, I had never really struggled with it. I look back at that and there was dark moments when I had nothing really going on that should make me feel like that. So there's so much guilt around that because I think when life is good, you should be happy or, you know, all of that kind of stuff. And I think I'm like, okay. What about the implant caused me to have mental health issues? And I honestly think when you feel good, you feel good. I have such a heart now for people that have health issues and because. It's such a struggle and you can't walk like you normally did or do things that you normally did or feel energized and it's just a drain on your mental health because you're sick, you're tired, you don't know why you are the way you are. it's like this whole like spiral kind of in your head of I don't know. You know what I mean?

Ashley: 41:42

Yeah, you feel trapped in your body and you feel helpless because they're really, even though you feel sad, it's like you don't know how to pull yourself out of it. I feel like when it's your whole entire body, it's not as simple as like, well, I just go to therapy or I just seek counseling. It's all of it combined. And sometimes it can be so hard to know how to fix it all at once. And so I really am happy that. A lot of those things went away for you once you had the explant that it isn't. Still that you feel stuck in the same situation.

Michele: 42:15

I am grateful for it too, but you know, again, I think it was a journey. I can't say that my mental health just was better because I think I still was dealing with so many health issues. I can say now two and a half years later that my mental health is in a really good place, but there was times on this journey without the breast in that I was still really. Struggling. Mental health is really interesting because I don't even know if I really knew, you know, when you're sitting in the clouds and then all of a sudden the sun comes out, you don't realize it was that dark until the sun started shining through the clouds. I think that that's what a lot with mental health feels like to sometimes when you start to finally feel like you're coming out of it. I really do hope that this continues to propel forward and, there's more research behind it too, what is causing this? Do we need to be aware of implanted devices? Will it ever get to the place that we want it to be? Probably not, because everything's run by money. Unfortunately, the aesthetic world is propelled by money. And so, will it ever get to the place? That you and I probably want it to be at or the conversations happening, are they putting restrictions? Probably not. Let's be honest, but can we advocate for our own health? Can we be aware? Can we, have conversations that at least doctors are having, this could happen. These are symptoms and Can we learn from that? Right?

Ashley: 43:48

Yeah, that's all that we can hope for. And if you are somebody who has had an explant and you're like, my healing isn't linear, know that that's normal. It's like a zigzaggy road. You're going to have days where there's lots of anger and grief and other things coming up and all you can do is slowly kind of go down it, but it definitely isn't,

Michele: 44:09

I think that wasn't something I think that I'm like, I mean, I don't know, I think a lot of people are this you're like, okay, they're out. I was like, I want to move forward. I want to just get through this. I want to be my old self again. And that was not my story. That was not my journey. There was a lot of frustration there. My advice now, is be patient with yourself, be patient and don't give up hope, keep working towards healing and there's so much information on these Facebook groups now, thank goodness. The cleansing diets and the supplements and the things that you can do and you know, two and a half years later, I can walk up the stairs without feeling like I'm 90 years old. So thank goodness, you know,

Ashley: 44:55

I absolutely agree. And thank you so much for having this conversation with me today. If there is anybody looking online for you to connect, can you let me know where they can find you?

Michele: 45:06

Yes, they can find me on my blog, which is whatdreamsmaybecome. ca, or they can find me on Instagram with the same name, whatdreamsmaybecome, and my page it's so interesting because I named it that because I think just holding on to hope and you just don't know what life will bring you good or bad and you know, it is sort of like convoluted sort of thing of what my dreams have become and there's been hiccups along the way, like feeling like, you know, you're 90 but that's okay. You keep on trucking and you keep on dreaming and you don't give up hope. You've got to hold the key to your own door. You have to unlock that key to your door because, you can't rely on medical professionals. Unfortunately, you have to, try to be in control of your own life the best that you can with the circumstances that you're given.

Ashley: 45:59

I definitely agree with that. We have to advocate for ourselves first and foremost. So thank you so much again. It was a pleasure talking to you today.

Michele: 46:07

Thank you so much, Ashley. I'm so glad we could talk about that today. And I'm so glad that you're using your voice and your own platform to share this with others, because I think you never know whose life it could save. And I mean that, that sounds dramatic, but I truly do. You and I both know that that's exactly what that means.

Ashley: 46:25

Thank you so much.

46:29

Thank you so much for joining us today for this episode of the filled up cup podcast. Don't forget to hit subscribe and leave a review. If you like what you hear, you can also connect with us at filledupcup.Com. Thanks again for tuning in and we'll catch you in the next episode.