The Speech Source

S3E6: Snapshots of Success with Photographer Sabrina Gebhardt

• Mary and Kim

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In this episode, Kim and Mary interview Sabrina Gebhardt with Sabrina Gebhardt Photography, a talented photographer, educator, and entrepreneur, who shares her journey from corporate America to launching a thriving photography business. Sabrina discusses how she balances motherhood, creative growth, business expansion, and personal well-being, offering valuable insights for aspiring creatives and entrepreneurs.

Sabrina’s passion for photography began early in life, growing up with parents who valued the art form. Her mother captured family moments, while her father focused on landscapes, both of which inspired her love for photography. However, she set the camera aside during college and a corporate career, only to rediscover her passion after the birth of her first child. 

Her journey into photography evolved organically, starting with capturing moments of her children, which soon led to friends requesting photos. Over time, Sabrina turned this passion into a business.

As her photography business grew, she realized the importance of delegating tasks and hired support for administrative work, such as invoicing and editing. Outsourcing allowed her to reclaim joy in her craft while balancing business growth and personal life. This shift in mindset not only enhanced her well-being but also improved the quality of her work.

Eight years into her photography career, Sabrina expanded into education and mentorship, which now forms a significant part of her business including mentorship programs, mastermind courses, retreats, and even launched her podcast, Shoot it Straight. Sabrina’s approach to education is not about teaching others to replicate her style but about empowering creatives to embrace their unique artistic voices.

A key theme throughout Sabrina’s story is her adaptability. She emphasizes the importance of aligning your business with the different seasons of life. As her family’s needs changed, she modified her business to fit those shifts, ensuring she could be present for her children while maintaining a thriving career. This flexibility has been instrumental in her personal and professional success.

Sabrina also touches on the importance of financial planning and legacy building. For her, success is not just about artistic achievement but also about creating a financial foundation for her children’s futures. Drawing on advice from her mother, Sabrina emphasizes the importance of maintaining an identity outside of motherhood. She wants her children to understand that they, too, can create fulfilling lives that align with their passions.

Throughout the conversation, Sabrina stresses that business should be fun and fluid, evolving naturally over time. She encourages entrepreneurs to experiment, take risks, and listen to their intuition when making decisions. By embracing change, setting boundaries, and trusting herself, Sabrina has built a business that supports her creative vision and personal happiness.


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Mary :

Today. We are so fortunate to have Sabrina Gebhardt as our guest on today's podcast. She is a wife and mother of three children and she's been a photographer for 13 years. Since her photography business launched, she developed an incredible name for herself and the community. I personally had my first experience with Sabrina as a client of hers and she was really just the photographer huge book of business. But then something really interesting happened she decided to expand her business, not just as a photographer but also as an educator. So we are so excited to talk to Sabrina today and learn, a, how she built her photography business and then, b, how did she really evolve with her family and with her business. So welcome Sabrina.

Sabrina:

Hi, thanks, ladies, I'm really excited to be here and chat.

Mary :

Let's get started by starting at the beginning. So you are fresh out of school. Tell us what made you go into photography, what sparked your love for that industry and started your whole journey.

Sabrina:

Yeah, it definitely starts way before that. I grew up in a home where both parents really valued photography. We actually had a dark room in our home. This is way back in the film age. My mom used it as an outlet to do basically what I do now, which is just capturing kids and joy and connection with people. She really used it for my brother and I and our cousins and our family. My dad used it as an outlet to capture landscapes and cityscapes and things around him. So they viewed the world differently, but they both really loved it.

Sabrina:

So I grew up with cameras in hand and just having that world around me, and I was the girl in high school who had the camera with her all the time. I just I loved documenting things too. But when I got to college I actually decided to put it down and and I actually did not pick up a camera again until my first child was born 16 and a half years ago. So I graduated from college and I went to work in the corporate world doing something completely different, and when my daughter was born, I naturally picked back up the camera and realized, oh my gosh, I've missed this and it just opened this part of me that had been closed off and forgotten almost. And within a couple of years of just photographing her and our life, it very quickly turned into friends asking can you come to the birthday party? Will you take pictures for me? Will you photograph my daughter? Will you do these things? And my business just started from there.

Kim :

It sounds like you have obviously the passion there that you just grew up with and you saw with your parents. As far as technique and what people might say that you have to have in photography, how do you feel like those go together or do you feel like you have this natural instinct and ability that has brought you to where you are as a photographer?

Sabrina:

Yeah, that's such a great question. I think there are definitely people who naturally have an eye as opposed to not really seeing things in composition and color and lighting well, but it is something that you can learn. Photography is a skill. There's math involved, there's technical things that you learn and it is definitely something that you can not have that eye for and be trained to do. I think I naturally have part of those skills. I naturally know when things are composed well. I naturally see how color plays well and light and those kinds of things, and I'm sure part of it does come from growing up around that with my parents and seeing such a value on visual arts.

Sabrina:

But there was definitely a learning curve. There are definitely things that you can do right and wrong, and mistakes you make and techniques that you have to learn how to do. Well, I tell newer photographers, you have to learn the rules before you can choose to break them, and the same would go for painting and drawing and any kind of like actual artists that you're creating. There are certain rules and then you can learn to choose to break them if you want, and then that's the creative part. And then there's the technical skill of using a camera. Right Back in the day it was film. Now it's digital. Film has come back around again. So there's learning how to get your little robot in your hand to do what you want it to. It's definitely more than just the click of a button.

Sabrina:

And then there's the third part, which is the business part, and that's the part that I actually am the best at. I tell people I'm a maybe slightly above average photographer, but I'm an excellent business person, and a lot of that did come from college and real world experience. And that is the part of running a creative business that I think a lot of people really struggle with. And that is the part of running a creative business that I think a lot of people really struggle with, and that's the part that you have to be really strong in so that you can thrive.

Mary :

You said that you worked in corporate America for a while. What was your background in college and where did you work?

Sabrina:

Yeah. So I got a degree in advertising and I minored in fashion merchandising from TCU and I actually got an incredible job right out of college because back in that day it was not hard to get a job that you really loved and I fell into this path. That it was something I loved and I was really good at and, honestly, I thought I was going to be a lifer in this job. I was a jewelry buyer and I got to travel all over the world and spend money and pick out jewelry and go do all of these incredible things that girls think are so fun. Right, I'm spending money on jewelry, I'm picking out trends and doing these things, and I loved my boss. I loved my staff. I was really good at what I did.

Sabrina:

I got to travel, which is a part of my story that's really important to me and I never expected to quit Never, ever. We had daycare lined up when I was pregnant with my first child. That's just what I was going to do. I was going to be a career woman and then, when my daughter was about three days old, I said I can't leave her with strangers. We're going to have to do a big, fat pivot here. I'm going to have to leave my job and that's a big pivot.

Kim :

I feel like it's one thing to be like I think I might go back part-time, but to be like this is a full career that you were going back to and nope, that's a big pivot.

Sabrina:

It was a huge pivot and at the time, part of our story is I actually was the breadwinner in our family. I made significantly more money than my husband and I told him this and my husband looks at me with these huge like saucer plate eyes and he's like wait, what? How are we?

Sabrina:

going to do this, yeah, and so we hustled to make it work. We sold a house, we bought a house, we downsized, we moved areas in the Metroplex. We put all of these plans in place while I was on maternity leave, so that I did not have to go back even for a single day, which is wild. It's a really cool story.

Mary :

Wow. So then at this point you start picking up a camera because your daughter is born and you obviously want to capture all those beautiful moments at home. How much of starting your business then was fueled by the need or desire to make income, and how much of that was fueled by a creative or personal outlet.

Sabrina:

Yeah, that's a great question. So I lasted as a stay at home mom for about one year. For about one year and then I realized I am not cut out for this. I was really bored. I was missing having an identity beyond just being a mom, especially when it's your first child, you guys know that like they're not talking to you, they're not really playing with you, it's just a lot of eat, nap, sleep, change diapers, repeat over again, and I just I was missing something. I felt like my soul was empty. And that's when I actually started a different side business.

Sabrina:

At the time I started a little Etsy shop and I was sewing children's clothing like really over the top stuff, and that filled a gap for me. It gave me something to do, a creative outlet. It brought in some income, which was really important for our family. Again, I had lost my breadwinner position and I felt really good to be contributing and to have something that was just mine. And during the process of my little Etsy shop that I had and my first foray into entrepreneurship, I learned some of the skills of selling things online.

Sabrina:

One of those things is the better your photos, the higher your sales, and because of that I invested in a really great camera and I started having my daughter be my model and I was honing my skills, both the photography side and the editing side, because I wanted to have those great product photos to drive the sales to my Etsy shop.

Sabrina:

That very quickly turned into oh, I actually enjoyed the photo part more and, like I said, I had people asking me to take photos of their kids, to bring my camera to this, that and the other, and I was really. I had people asking me to take photos of their kids, to bring my camera to this, that and the other, and I was really enjoying serving people in that way. And I remember going to bed one night and telling my husband I think I want to take a stab at being a photographer and at this point I had, within a three-year span, had a baby, left a career, started an Etsy shop, picked up another hobby. I was having another baby and I think my husband had whiplash and he was like wait what.

Sabrina:

You want to start another business. What's happening here? And I was like I don't know. I feel like this could be a thing, and at the time, mary, I really do feel like it was 50-50. I wanted something that could grow my income more than my little Etsy shop, but I also was leaning into something that I was enjoying and letting it be. I can make a business out of doing something I'm loving. This is a win for our family. And so he didn't love the idea and I said I don't care, I'm doing it anyways.

Kim :

I would love to know how do you transition that into? Okay, now, this is my business, and I'm charging especially for your friends that were like hey, I just had a baby, Will you please come do the pictures, Because it's hard to say no if you would desire to do that anyways. So then, what did that process look like for you as far as putting boundaries in place for yourself?

Sabrina:

to make it a business. That's such a great question and, honestly, that is something that I did not do well in the beginning and the women I coach, which I'm sure we'll get to. This is a huge struggle for people who are beginning. It's a huge struggle. There is definitely a fine line, because you do need to do enough work for it. To be a photographer, you need to have a large enough body of work to be able to share on a website to say look at all these things that I can photograph and all these things I can do. To instill confidence in potential clients, they need to see different faces, different sizes, different ages, different settings right. They need to see that you've been doing the thing, walking the walk, and not just one gallery of all one family.

Sabrina:

And part of that comes with being willing to photograph people for free or very low cost, because you do have to work your way up to being able to charge sustainable prices right. You cannot go right out of the gate as a beginner with no experience and say I'm going to be this luxury, high-priced person, right. You cannot go right out of the gate as a beginner with no experience and say I'm going to be this luxury, high-priced person right? Nobody's going to trust you or believe you. So there's a fine line in the need to take those clients for free or really cheap.

Sabrina:

But then to your point, Kim, there's a line in the sand where you have to be willing to say okay, at this point I'm charging everybody full price, I have to be profitable, I have to turn people away when I'm at capacity, and those are all such hard lessons to learn and they feel so uncomfortable. They feel so uncomfortable. But what I see happen the most is there's at least in my industry there is a transition from in the early years. It really is all your friends, your family or friends of friends, and then there gets to be a point where you're not serving those people at all anymore. Like they played a role in the beginning of your business but they have a hard time transitioning to seeing you as a professional beyond just the peer, and that's okay. That's okay. Part of business is knowing that it's business, it's not personal. Like I'm still friends with all of those people. I didn't lose any of their friendships, but I am not their photographer anymore, and that's okay.

Kim :

That makes sense, and I can definitely see across many industries how that happens.

Mary :

Yeah, sabrina, I want to talk a little bit about the transition now, because you were a photographer and you've been really transparent about everything that you went through as a photographer and your own burnout and just getting miserable. It's passion, but then it turned business and profit and lifestyle. And can you share a little bit about what happened? Because it's funny. During COVID I had a little experience with this, where I started this random hand embroidery hobby. I taught myself how to hand embroider and I did it and then people started asking me to do it and I sold it and I saw how something that was this creative outlet for me turned into this. Oh my gosh, I have to get it done now. And so how did you deal with that when you loved this so much? Yeah?

Sabrina:

it is such a sad story that happens with so many creatives. We take something that we love and then we turn it into a profitability thing and it's not fun anymore. It loses all of its shine and all of its joy, and it's hard. It's a really hard lesson to learn and it's a fine line of okay. Am I willing to figure out a way to make this work so that I can still enjoy it, or do I need to just set it down and walk away? For me? I knew that I did not want to give it up, but I had to figure out a way so that I still enjoyed it and that it still felt good to me, because, at the end of the day, if I'm not enjoying photographing families and babies and doing that, it shows in my work and my clients can feel it, and I don't want them to have that experience. I don't want them to have anything less than magical photos at the end, and so I need to put myself in a situation so that I am serving them but also taking care of myself. It's this kind of really happy spot that you need to get to, and what I saw was that I was photographing too much. I was trying to take on too many sessions and also I wasn't willing to get support for the other parts of my business. I was doing everything myself all the booking, all the invoicing, all the bookkeeping, all of the scheduling, the contracts, the editing, everything. And it started with me finally asking for help. And the very first person I brought on was an assistant and I let them take over the booking process, the contracts, the invoices, the client communications. And as soon as I was willing to release a part of my business and get off my high horse of I'm the only one that can do it you know what I mean and let somebody help me I felt this immense relief Okay, this is still going to go. Well, what else can I give away? And then I brought on an editor to hand off my editing, which is a huge time suck for photographers, and that helped for several years. That was enough. I got enough hours back.

Sabrina:

But then my season of life started to change, primarily with my kids and their ages and their commitments, and we had another child come in and all these things started changing.

Sabrina:

And this is another thing that I coach women through you need to be willing and able to modify your business as your season of life changes, because your capacity is going to change along with it, and if you're not willing to make the changes, for it to shift with your life, you're going to get to a crossroads where they don't align anymore and they don't work together anymore, and that's really sad, because then you either find yourself personally in a really bad spot or professionally in a spot where you want to give up on something that you once loved, and so I have always really listened to my intuition and made the shifts that I need to make. There have been so many iterations of my business over the years, so many iterations, and I'm willing to continually make iterations so that I feel good, so that I can be the mom and wife I need to be, so that I can serve my clients well and also that I can take care of these women that I coach.

Mary :

Wow, that's amazing that you were able to figure out to just ask for help. That's hard for all of us is to just say you know what, can't do it anymore. I've got to be able to delegate something. One thing that was surprising to me starting a business is I was under this impression that you set everything up on the start and then you check that one off and then you move down the list, and what I didn't realize is that all of the systems you're putting in place are constantly evolving as you are creating your business, for example, your website. So that is not something that you just set up, put to the side and it's good to go for the next five years Absolutely not. So how did you figure out how to do? I mean, as an artist yourself, did you do website design or did you hire that out?

Sabrina:

Yeah, all of that stuff takes up so much more time. And you're right, nobody tells you that kind of stuff. You're like I'm going to kick off a website and then I'm done, and that is absolutely not true. I have never done my own websites. That is not something that I am good at. I now am in a place where I can make changes and modify my website comfortably easily. I can get in there and mess with it and I am good at that, but starting from scratch, absolutely not. I think at this point I'm on website number six.

Sabrina:

Probably from the beginning it's been through a lot of changes.

Sabrina:

There's been branding changes and site changes and URL changes and design changes, and so the website I have now, which I love, is very different from the one I had in the beginning.

Sabrina:

But I've had help at every step of the way for that.

Sabrina:

And as far as, yeah, the contracts and the policies and disclaimers and client relationship management systems and all of that kind of thing, I have my hands in some of it and I have support for other parts of it, but it depends on the year and what's happening in the world Earlier this year, with all the Google changes and all the email things, we had to go through and verify that through everybody for a loop.

Sabrina:

So there's some that you don't need to make changes, but maybe once a year. But there's sometimes where at least for my client relationship manager I'm going in there on a weekly basis and making sure that contracts are correct for different people, or payment terms are different, or setting up a new page for this, that or the other, and so that requires a lot more time, and so I think part of being a business owner even as a creative is either you need to make sure you have enough time in your schedule to do these tasks or hiring somebody to take these tasks off your plate fully, because we think that we just get to be the face of our business, but we actually need time to be in our business too.

Kim :

I do have more questions further down this conversation, just about managing the different areas of your business and how you're compartmentalizing that. But first I want to ask how you transitioned into the teaching part of photography.

Sabrina:

Yeah, I think it was about eight years ago. I had gotten to a point where my work was really consistent. I was making a name for myself in our area, which was spreading across the country in the photographer space, and at this point now, currently, what I've been doing called lifestyle photography was newer back then and so I was getting some attention, let's say, and I was having photographers message me on Instagram or emailing me through my website asking me will you mentor me? Do you offer mentorships? Website asking me will you mentor me? Do you offer mentorships? Is this something you do? And probably the first 10 women.

Sabrina:

I said no, I don't do that, and I redirected them to people who did, because I really had a lot of like imposter syndrome, like I don't have any experience in teaching, I'm not good enough, I'm sure that I don't have anything to offer you, and I pushed back on it for a long time. And there's this one woman that circled back around more than once and she's like I've looked into other people. They don't have what I want. You are the person that I want to work with. What? How can I twist your arm? And I was like you know what I feel like. Now this is becoming a thing. Maybe the universe is telling me that I need to take a stab at this. And I was very honest with her. I was like I've never done this before. I think I know how this is going to go. Are you willing to be my guinea pig? And I threw out a price and I threw out a plan and she was like this sounds amazing, let's do it. And I fell in love with it instantly.

Sabrina:

This was an in-person opportunity. At the time, I only coached women in person. Come to me from. They would fly to me from wherever they lived and we would photograph a session together and we would sit and have a meal together and spend hours talking through their business, their struggles, changes. They would pick my brain and I loved the connection with another creative woman. I loved getting to be an open book and answer all the questions. I loved getting to be a cheerleader and help them fast track through struggles that took me years to figure out and I'm like well, let me just tell you how to fix this right now.

Sabrina:

I loved it so much and immediately I came home and I was like I'm adding a page to my website mentoring this is now in my offerings.

Sabrina:

I want to do this and for the first couple of years that's what it looked like it was in person. I met a lot of incredible women that way and I got to hone my skill and learn what it was that I was really good at. Yes, these women were coming to me because they wanted to learn my style of photography and how I did what I did, but they would walk away with even more business knowledge and expertise and marketing help and guidance, and that, I realized, was really my strong suit and since then, you guys know, I do all the things education-wise. I have all of these offerings, from little small ones to huge long mentorships and masterminds, and it now is my business is more than 50% education. So I still photograph clients, I still get inquiries, I still have to do newborn sessions and hospital sessions and all that, but probably 65% of my business is education at this point and I am so happy. I love it.

Mary :

Let's list off what you have going on, because I want to make sure all of our listeners know all of these things, because it's really impressive first off, but also this didn't happen overnight, so I'm also really interested in the progression of how you started and when you added. You did a great job just telling us then explaining how you started your mentorship. But in addition to your mentorship, you also have a four-month mastermind course. You have your podcast, the Shoot it Straight podcast that you are the host of. You also are active on your website, blogging and, as part of this mastermind and all of the education that you provide, you have lots of freebies for people that you have a free burnout guide, a free training, the portfolio on purpose.

Mary :

So, looking at this, it just looks obviously so comprehensive. When you look at your site and you say, okay, I can tell that as a photographer any level that I was, I would be able to go in and say, okay, this is for me, there's a spot for anybody in that industry within your offerings. But where did you start? And then how did you decide to add something like hosting a podcast, which is no small thing?

Sabrina:

Right, it has definitely happened in layers over time. You're right. It's not one day I was like I'm going to really lean into online education and just throw up all these things out there. It's happened over time. So, actually back in 2019, I really had this big goal of wanting to be a speaker at conferences. So I started with the big goal in mind. I had been to many conferences and I had seen these educators up there and it just looked incredible to me I'm one of those weirdos that loves public speaking and I love connecting with people and I just thought, oh my gosh, that looks so cool. How do I get all the way to that? And then I backed into it and I hired a mentor to get on a call with me to tell me, like, what does that look like? And she gave me some incredible advice to get started in the education space, which meant getting an online education presence going Currently. Before that, I was mentoring and I had a page on my website, but it was in-person, one-on-one right. There was no course podcast membership. None of those things existed. And so I started thinking through okay, what could that look like? What could I offer? That was at the end of 2019.

Sabrina:

Then 2020 happened and I had started 2020 with pitching all of these conferences that I wanted to be a speaker at. I had no experience, but I was willing to start the pitch process because you've got to start getting no's before you can get yeses. And then all of those conferences got shut down because nobody could do that in 2020. And I had a friend in my ear who knew that I was striving towards those goals and at the start of the pandemic, everybody's panicking, nobody's working, we're all home, we're mentally in a really bad space. And she's like why don't you do a free online coaching, something or other? What could that look like? And I was like, okay, that's actually sounds really fun. This sounds like a fun thing that I can do to get through the pandemic, that I can serve some other women. So I very quickly mapped out an outline of what I could teach them and over how many weeks and how many women did I want to apply or to participate? And I like slapped it up on the Instagram and I was like I'm going to do an eight-week mastermind that is totally for free. Here's who it's for, here's what you're going to learn, here's how you can apply. And it was like the floodgates opened and I had this incredible group of women that I chose to participate and the beautiful part of the story is that those women from over four years ago now many of them are still in my circle. Many of them have paid me lots of money to do other things. They have all made friends with each other.

Sabrina:

It was like this beautiful little bubble, it was like our own little COVID bubble, and it was my first experience getting to teach with an outline and over several weeks and with a group and answer questions and problem solve and everything, and I was obsessed with it and I was like, okay, here we go. I had all of these ideas for this could be a course and this could be this and this could be this, and it just slowly started to evolve from there, slowly started to evolve from there. A year later I decided to release the first iteration of my current mastermind, which is called Root to Rise, and there is a retreat component in there. It's four months of group coaching. It's also one-on-one coaching through an app called Boxer, and then there's also a retreat portion where it's just this incredible girls weekend together, and I had always wanted to host something like that, because I love to host, I love to entertain. But it felt like something that only like the cool kids I'm putting air quotes there like the cool kids hosted retreats. And who's I to host a retreat? Again, there was like imposter syndrome, but I just did it and it took off and it was amazing and I've since done six more of those.

Sabrina:

But after that retreat experience, those women didn't want to leave, they didn't want to leave my circle, they didn't want to leave each other, and so I was like I'm going to create a membership where it's like really low cost and they can stay in and it's a monthly charge. And so then my membership was born and then a year later a course was born, and then it's just been like layer after layer. The podcast came, I did start public speaking, and so I've layered in all of these things because, quite honestly, they sound fun. And I tell people all the time business is a game, let it be fun, try things If they work, if it feels good, great If it do it anymore. And I've always approached things that way and I'm so thrilled with where I've landed right now. And you're right, there's a lot of things going on.

Kim :

And that's what I'm so curious about and Mary and I just had an hour discussion of it this morning because it's all these things start coming at you at one time, especially when you're doing a direct service plus education, plus podcast, and when it's hard to compartmentalize. We have to just sit down and say, okay, let's look at this, let's look at this. But I would be very curious to know is, as these things came along and everything's ebbs and flows, right, so were there certain systems that you cannot live without, or things that you put into place or ways that you operate to keep things just flowing like they should?

Sabrina:

Are you a?

Kim :

morning person. Do you start with this routine and organize this way? Do you have certain days that you focus on certain areas? Tell us your ways. Yeah.

Sabrina:

Yeah, I will say before I go any further I am. My personality type is that I get more done than the average person. That is like innate to me. I'm an Enneagram three, I'm a generator, I or, if you're in any of those things like I'm just I'm a person who, like, gets things done. So that's really important to know because, like I said, with the season of life, there's not a perfect puzzle piece for the way that everybody runs their business and their boundaries and their schedule and capacity. So, that being said, I do get up early. I'm a morning person. My big kids are out the house at 6am for practices right now, so I'm up because they're up.

Sabrina:

I do really prioritize sleep as much as I go and feel like an energizer bunny during the day, I crash hard and I need my sleep. I do not have a rigid block schedule that you read about, but I do try and block off days during the month to focus on certain stuff, so drafting podcast episodes or getting a new freebie written or writing content for a Facebook group, that kind of thing. I do those in big blocks and I am one of those people that loves goals and I really drill down and map out goals. I know here's my year goal, here's my quarterly goal, here's what I need to do for the month for that, here's what I need to do for the week for that, and so I'm constantly tracking and I think that's how I've been able to birth so many things is because I'm really hyper-focused on the goals. But the biggest answer to your question is that I outsource everything.

Sabrina:

I have an enormous team at this point. An enormous team. Yes, I'm still very busy. My days are very full. I don't get through my to-do list all the time, but the only reason that I'm able to have all these irons in the fire is because I have somebody for everything literally somebody for everything. I have a VA, I have an in-person assistant. I outsource my podcast production. I have somebody who does my content management for me. I have oh my gosh I have a bookkeeper. I have a money mindset coach. I have a business coach. I have people that run the Facebook groups for me. I just I have a retreat assistant that coordinates all the retreat things. I have so much support. That's how it happens, and I never want people to think that I'm this one woman magician, because I'm not. I have this huge team behind me that's helping making sure that we're staying afloat and we're getting things done.

Mary :

In your podcast and then also on your website, you built your dream business that put your life first and that makes total sense. If you are outsourcing these things, because otherwise you would just wear yourself into the ground doing every little thing and running everything yourself Do you have any tips for people on how to balance that? Because as a business owner, we can say, yes, of course I want to outsource this, of course I need an assistant and I need to hire someone for this project and someone else for this project, but at the end of the day, yes, that will make your projects and your business grow, but it does rack up the expense column on your books. So how do you manage your expenses and your profit margin and being able to kind of balance growth with profit? Yeah, yeah.

Sabrina:

So that's definitely a personal choice, right, and it is. You're going to have to bust out a spreadsheet and you're going to have to look at what do I want my take-home income to be? What do I need my take-home income to be? And then back into everything. That way, I pay a lot.

Sabrina:

Obviously, I have a ton of expenses and my paycheck is probably not what people would think it is, but it's exactly what we need to fill in the gap and it feels good to me at this time and place in my business and I'm willing to pay and have higher expenses because I'm happy where I am.

Sabrina:

But if and when I get to a place where we need to make more money, I want to make more money then that's a decision of okay, what do I need to do to either push the passive profit in my business, or do I need to start letting some people go so that I have more profit built in, or do I need to raise my rates so that I increase my profit? There's multiple ways to achieve the same goal. The other part of that story is, I just alluded to when you're taking on these expenses, it should never come out of your pocket. It should never come out of your paycheck. It should get built into what you are charging. That's the difference between a luxury service provider and someone who's not. Yes, there's a price point difference and nine times out of 10, that price point difference is because of the support system that they have making them need to charge that much and that's exactly why my photography rates are so high.

Sabrina:

I am not a cheap photographer and it's because I have all these expenses and I'm okay with that. I would rather have six photo clients a month and then my coaching business and be able to pay for these systems and whatnot and support, as opposed to having 30 cheaper clients, right? Because then I'm running myself ragged. So there's definitely math involved figuring it out. I'm at a place where I am happy. I am happy to pay people to help support me.

Kim :

And I think that goes to. I listened to one of your episodes about defining success and what that means, and for you you're getting the pay that you need or what you're wanting right now, but it seems like success for you is being able to reach all the people that you're reaching and teaching and creating and having your stamp in all these different areas. That that seems like success. Maybe to you is just all that you're doing in the world of photography.

Sabrina:

Yeah, there's definitely. Like I said, that's what drives me in the education space is the connection and the relationships and the community that's being built and fostered, and it is so important to me. I will say, Kim, though, I'm also at a place and this has probably been the case for the past two years where I am in a very seed planting space. So I am in a position where I am planting seeds and making investments before things have taken off and bloomed, so to speak. I am investing in future success.

Sabrina:

So currently, in this year, I have a lot of passive projects happening where I'm doing a lot of leg work. I need a lot of support to help it happen. But once it takes off and I start having ads running to it and I start tweaking funnels and things, then my income starts to pick up and it starts to make up the difference, and so it's investing in the future of my business, which I always think. No matter where you are in business, no matter what industry you're in, there's a point at which you will need to say okay, in order to take a leap to the next level, whatever that level is for you, I'm going to need to double down on my investments first, so that I can support where I'm going.

Kim :

That makes a lot of sense and that's really good advice too, and I think that's just what keeps a business evolving also and not just getting stagnant and not making it.

Sabrina:

Yeah, and there's definitely a piece of fear involved there. Entrepreneurs, we're the ones that see the inside of our business. We see the good, the bad, the ugly. We see the finances. We see everything.

Sabrina:

And it can be really scary to say, okay, I want to go here, I want to do this next thing, expand in this way, grow in this way, but I know it's going to do this next thing.

Sabrina:

Expand in this way, grow in this way, but I know it's going to involve this huge investment. And, like I said, oftentimes you're taking the leap of faith right Before you actually see the growth and it's really scary. But being willing to say, do I trust myself? Do I trust myself with this? Do I trust where it's going? Do I feel it in my gut, am I willing to do what it takes to make this work? And then taking the leap of faith is huge and I think so many creative entrepreneurs aren't willing to do that and that's where they get stuck in the I'm not going to look for help, I'm not going to invest in everything, I want to keep my numbers as slim as possible and they burn out because they don't have support, they don't have the joy of reaching new goals and growth. They're missing all that because they're scared and they stay stuck.

Mary :

Well, sabrina, I will always cherish the photos that you took of my little family and our very first start in the hospital and at our home, and I remember just reflecting on preparing for this episode. Firstborn is the first child. I researched photographers extensively and I love art. I'm not a photographer in any way, but I just can, I do, have a sense of what style I really enjoy. And I just remember when I came across you as a photographer, I was like I forgot all the things that I was looking at when I looked at your page.

Mary :

I wasn't thinking about oh, how are they editing that, or what was the composition? I just went to your page and it was just this overwhelming feeling I got looking at your photos of just oh my gosh, this is life on this page. Like you just knew how to photograph that in a way that was just beautiful, and again no longer thinking about how you accomplished it, you just achieved it. That is an incredible talent. Now you're tasked with teaching that kind of talent to your students. How do you get that across when so often, as a young student or right out the gate, you're like you said, you're thinking about the mathematical, all the principles of what you need to do, but at the end of the day it's the feeling like, how do you teach something so abstract? I don't know.

Sabrina:

Yeah, that's such a good question. So the first thing I'll say is I the women, I teach the women. I coach. I am not teaching them to be me, I am teaching them to create the best art with their eyes. No artist creates the same thing, and the perfect example of this is when somebody comes to my retreat. My retreats will have anywhere from 10 to 15 women at them and we will photograph sessions together. We will be in the same location with the same family and we will have 15 different perspectives, different editing styles, different moments captured, different triggers of that's where I want to click the shutter. That's the moment I want. Different angles, different composition.

Sabrina:

No creative sees the world the same way, and part of that is our upbringing, part of that's our personality, part of that's our vision, our style. So much goes into it. So I'm not teaching people to do to be me, to be little versions of me all over. I'm teaching them to allow themselves to create art that feels like them, and part of that is just allowing them and coaching them through the thought of there is an ideal client for you, no matter what your vision is Okay. There are billions of people. Everybody needs a photographer and they want it for different reasons, okay, and there is somebody that matches your style, your vision, and giving them the freedom and the space to create, but also the freedom to know that, just like I said earlier, the rules now you can break them. You can break them and capture families or seniors or babies or whatever, in a way that feels authentic to you, that calls to you. There's something out there for them. So I'm teaching them that. I'm giving them the space to, like, work through that.

Sabrina:

We do sessions together, we do portfolio reviews, but then there's the the business part of it where I I really am teaching them, like how to put boundaries in place, how to communicate better with clients to create this business they love, which, again, my neighbor's business, your business, my business. They're all different because our definitions of success are different, our seasons of life are different, our priorities are different, and allowing people to lean into what they need and what their desires are, and then helping them to solve problems, to make their dream a reality, basically is what I do, and I don't know how I do it. I did not take a course on coaching, I did not become a life coach. I have just leaned into what I guess is a gift and holding space for women and answering questions and I mirror back things to them and I don't know.

Mary :

I think you've also, like you said, you've leaned into who you are as a person and what's true to you, because I'm not. When you mentioned at the very beginning of this episode that travel is important to you, because when I look at your photography and when I read about your purpose with your business, it just it reminded me of this, of a more European lifestyle, this whole idea that we would have this less hustle, less go and really live that much more. So have you been influenced by the travels and your photographer's personally that just influenced your success story, the way that you want to live?

Sabrina:

Yeah, I travel is a huge role in my life. I have loved it since I was a child. All of my best memories are of traveling and I knew that I wanted to provide myself and my family with those same experiences. And 10 years ago that was not a thing in my business. There was no traveling and we went on like an annual family vacation and that was the end of it. But I was craving something, and at that point I started attending conferences or going to retreats as an excuse to both educate and grow, but also to travel and to give myself a way to travel. And slowly, over time, I started getting to travel with photography clients. So I've done that for about seven years.

Sabrina:

Now I actually am at time of recording, I'm leaving tomorrow to fly to Colorado to photograph a family, and so that is a little tiny piece of my business that's gotten folded in. And then there's the retreat portion that I talked about. Right now I'm hosting four retreats a year at different places all over the country, because it fills my soul. Getting to travel but also to have women have an excuse to travel with me and to step outside of their lives is really important. And then I travel with speaking. So I am actually in a place now where I travel quite a bit and it feels really good and I've had to definitely make changes to my schedule and my business and my capacity to make it work. But it's such a high priority for me that I am willing to do that. It's that whole changing what my business looks like in different seasons of life to fulfill what I need on making it work.

Kim :

So when you do travel, just with your family, do you like? As far as just capturing not a session, or we're going to do photos now, but just the on the go do you use your phone camera ever?

Sabrina:

Or do you?

Kim :

always have.

Sabrina:

No, I actually use my phone more than anything. 13 years in that's where I'm at I actually, the past two years have made the decision that when we travel just for vacation, which is normally about three times a year, at this point I will actually take a film camera and my phone. I will leave my digital camera at home. The film camera is fun in a way that, like you have to wait, you don't get to see your images right away. You have to be really thoughtful in your choice of snapping the picture, because it's really expensive every time you click the shutter, and so it allows me to truly be artistic and bring in that different vision. But I've started leaving the digital camera at home because I put too much pressure on myself to get amazing pictures for Instagram and I just have to not have it there. So I am primarily an iPhone photographer when we travel, definitely.

Kim :

And then my follow-up. I know we need to. Oh yeah, oh no. I was just curious if you, being the photographer, like for your kids grade or is it always okay, sabrina, we're needing a group picture. Are you the one that's always called in? And how do you balance that? Cause I can see that being exhausting, because everybody knows that you're going to take the best photo if you do it, but do you take that role on every single time?

Sabrina:

Yeah, so I was definitely asked that a lot in the beginning and I said yes because again I wanted to get my name out there and it was for the future of the business and whatever. But then I started saying no and I have said no so many times that I don't get asked anymore, which is great. Now I'm in a position where, if I feel like it and I bring my camera, I have already made the decision that I am happy to photograph and so I'm going to serve in that way, but it's going to be like a surprise serve and I don't offer it up because I do get in that mentality of then I feel like I'm there for work and I'm not able to enjoy the party or the game or the thing. And a perfect example is my daughter is a junior in high school and she plays volleyball and I will only bring my camera to two games a season. She knows that. Her friends know that.

Sabrina:

The coaches know that when I bring it I'm all in, I'm the team photographer. I give them all the images. I let the parents know I'm happy to capture and do the thing. They go in the yearbook but I'm only going twice because when I'm there with that role. I'm not watching the game, I'm not there as a mom, I'm missing it. I'm there as the team photographer, and so that's the way I approach it now. So I don't get asked that much anymore, which is okay.

Kim :

Yeah, you're there, you've arrived at that place in your career and it sounds like you're also finding that great balance of setting boundaries, but then you're still giving and serving because you do have this amazing talent. So it's really neat to hear how you have set those boundaries and what you've created. So thank you for sharing that.

Mary :

Sabrina, I wanna wrap with one last question for you, and the segue from your daughter is perfect, because I know from your Instagram that you've taken your daughter on trips with you at different locations and she looks so beautiful and with her little camera and she not little like. She's old and very proficient, I'm sure, a very good photographer and artist. But what have you thought about in terms of the word legacy and what are you trying to show your children and impart to your children and your craft and your business? Everything that you're doing for them?

Sabrina:

Yeah, that has. That's such a great question and that has absolutely shifted over time. When I first started my business, it was really and this is still true today that I want to show my kids that I am not just a mom, that I have an identity outside of them, outside of my marriage, that I am my own human, and that's really important to me. That is a piece of advice that my mom actually gave to me at my baby shower when I was pregnant with my first. She said don't ever forget that you were Sabrina first. And it was such beautiful advice and I've taken it with me and so it's really important that they see that. They know that I have priorities outside of them. I don't want them to think, even though that I adore them and I would do anything for them, they're not my priority all the time they're not. Other things get to take precedence. I think that's really important. It's also important for my kids to see that they can build a life that makes them happy.

Sabrina:

I again, I've had so many iterations of my business and I'm sure that I will have so many more iterations of what happens in the next 10 years, 20 years, whatever, and I am willing to work hard and to make shifts and to adjust to fit our life and what I need at the time.

Sabrina:

I've gone through ups and downs in life and, like you mentioned, I've had burnout. I've gone through personal tragedy. I've had all these experiences and things have needed to shift and I have been willing to put in the work to make my business what it is, and such a joy to me now. But as far as a legacy, my current big driver and as unsexy as this may sound is I want to leave a financial legacy for my family. Like it's really important to me. We again I've got a junior, we've got college on the horizon and then we've got all of the very expensive big kid things coming down the pipe soon and it's important to me that my kids can see that like I've built this thing that helps fund their dreams too and the future of their life, like that I did something that helped that Right and building this financial legacy that hopefully we can give to them and they can give to their kids and all of that. And I guess that's where I am today.

Kim :

I love that.

Mary :

That's really beautiful. I love that videographer, mom, wife, business owner and someone who is just happy and living her purpose and sharing it with the world. So thank you again. Thank you so much for having me.

Sabrina:

This has been such a fun chat.

Kim :

That was so good. I got like chills when you said your mom shared that with you when you had babies. Cause, what a great like piece of advice, especially when most people are in that mindset of here's my world that I'm about to have and, you know, don't forget you. So that's great advice.

Sabrina:

Yeah, it was really beautiful advice and I think it it has stuck with me truly and I think it's super important yeah.

Kim :

I think if we could all shift into that mindset a little bit more, it would help us balance being a mom better.

Sabrina:

It definitely helps with the mom guilt for sure, because I allow myself that some days and some moments they are number one and other moments they're not, and it's okay. It's okay I can still be an incredible mom and have an incredible relationship with them, be an incredible wife, do all these things, but sometimes it's okay to have a priority outside of your family.

Kim :

And you're probably raising very independent kids, even if it's they're having to do a little bit more. Figure it out more there, it's better on the other end. I hope so. We'll see. Stay tuned. They're all going to be in counseling at some point for something we either did too much or not enough.

Mary :

Exactly, sabrina. Thank you, I know you have. I don't want to keep you from school pickup. I know I was like I didn't want to say it but, as you've probably figured, we're a little priced out once you really hit it and made it big of your photography. I wish we were like I know budget but you, just you, still are my favorite photographer, still my favorite photos of the kids ever.

Sabrina:

No, that's so kind, Thank you. I know it's one of those things where it's. I know that not everybody can afford me and that's okay.

Mary :

That's okay. That's how we are. Kim and I are like no, we don't need there's lots of speech therapists. It's okay yeah.

Sabrina:

Yeah, it's just, yeah, yeah it's. It's not business, it's not personal, it's just business. So yeah, exactly.

Mary :

All right, we'll have a good rest of the day, okay.

Sabrina:

All right, thanks, ladies, I appreciate it.

Mary :

Bye.

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Mary Brezik and Kim Dillon

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