Today, we're exploring the depth and responsibility of trauma-informed storytelling with Maria Bryan, who will guide us through the intricate process of sharing these sensitive narratives within the nonprofit marketing world, ensuring that the dignity of those who have bravely lived these stories is not compromised.
Maria's expertise in trauma-informed storytelling will light a path for marketers and communicators to follow as she breaks down the differences between story owners, storytellers, and story receivers, and why consent is so important.
You'll hear how Thistle Farms uses consent forms, the comprehensive resources you can find at Ethical Storytelling, and how nonprofits can empower individuals to share their experiences on their own terms with respectful and protective practices.
Resources & Links
Connect with Maria on her website and LinkedIn, and tune in to her podcast, When Bearing Witness, to further explore trauma-informed storytelling.
Visit Ethical Storytelling to access a free media consent form.
Maria recommends looking at Thistle Farms’ Instagram and specifically looking at this post. She also recommends the Love 146 Language & Media Guide.
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Let's Connect!
Today, we're exploring the depth and responsibility of trauma-informed storytelling with Maria Bryan, who will guide us through the intricate process of sharing these sensitive narratives within the nonprofit marketing world, ensuring that the dignity of those who have bravely lived these stories is not compromised.
Maria's expertise in trauma-informed storytelling will light a path for marketers and communicators to follow as she breaks down the differences between story owners, storytellers, and story receivers, and why consent is so important.
You'll hear how Thistle Farms uses consent forms, the comprehensive resources you can find at Ethical Storytelling, and how nonprofits can empower individuals to share their experiences on their own terms with respectful and protective practices.
Resources & Links
Connect with Maria on her website and LinkedIn, and tune in to her podcast, When Bearing Witness, to further explore trauma-informed storytelling.
Visit Ethical Storytelling to access a free media consent form.
Maria recommends looking at Thistle Farms’ Instagram and specifically looking at this post. She also recommends the Love 146 Language & Media Guide.
Applications are closing soon for my Monthly Giving Mastermind program! Ready to build a dedicated community of recurring donors to generate consistent revenue? Let's make it happen together. Learn more and apply here.
Want to make Missions to Movements even better? Take a screenshot of this episode and share it on Instagram. Be sure to tag @positivequation so I can connect with you.
Don’t miss DonorPerfect’s Community Conference SPARK on June 4 & 5! It’s for any fundraiser wanting to excel in donor management, program innovation, community engagement, and organizational growth. Register for FREE! RSVP: https://bit.ly/DSSPARK
Want a donor acquisition plan tailored to you? All you need to do is answer 5 simple questions. Get your personalized growth plan: https://bit.ly/DonorGrowthQuiz
The NIO Summit is the nonprofit industry’s premier digital fundraising event! Join hundreds of fellow nonprofit professionals in Indianapolis September 18-19 and save $600 on your ticket -- the lowest price available anywhere right here: https://bit.ly/NIOSummit2024
Let's Connect!
Us, the storytellers, are very vulnerable to vicarious and secondary trauma when our job is to hold space, over and over again, for all kinds of different kinds of difficult stories. How can we be protective of our own nervous system and our own selves as we are holding space and sharing these stories?
Speaker 2:Hey there, you're listening to the Missions to Movement podcast and I'm your host, dana Snyder, digital Strategist for Non-profits and Founder and CEO of Positive Equations. This show highlights the digital strategies of organizations making a positive impact in the world. Ready to learn the latest trends, actionable tips and the real stories from behind the feed? Let's transform your mission into a movement. Hello everyone, welcome, welcome, welcome back to another episode. I love that Maria's waving. Maria's not the other side, wait, she's waving to you, but I'm going to dictate the things that happen here that you visually cannot see. Well, that just shows you how friendly and excited our guests is today to be here, and I'm super pumped that she's here. Maria Bryan is a trauma informed storytelling trainer and I think this is something in marketing that maybe we don't talk about enough. A lot of the times. I'm talking about the creative aspect to case studies, but there's a lot that goes behind the scenes when we're really trying to tell the tough stories and the tough impact and what actually happens behind the feed to allow those stories to be told. So, maria, very happy to have you here. Welcome to Mission's Movements.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, Gina. I so appreciate you having me on.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I don't even want to wait till the end for you to say this, but will you please share with everybody the name of your newly launched podcast so they can go check it out?
Speaker 1:This is week two. It just launched of this recording now when this is going live, but when Bearing Witness is my podcast, which is a journey to explore all things trauma, informed storytelling, which has been such a joy to put out in the world. So thanks for letting me give that shout out.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely Everybody. Go listen and this is going to be like a little bit teaser to those conversations that you can check out on her podcast. Now, maria, you really help storytellers gather and tell some what can be pretty painful stories that are hard to relive and share, but in a way that really promotes safety, and this is really crucial, and I think marketing sensitivity issues can be very hard to talk about. How did you get started in this work?
Speaker 1:Right. So I was just teaching, training and working with nonprofits one on one on basic marketing and marketing planning, and two years ago I was just teaching a webinar on storytelling and a student said how does trauma informed storytelling work into your framework? And I couldn't even really define trauma. I most definitely haven't thought about this and so I gave an intuitive answer. I'd loved I can't find it. I cannot find what I had told this person, but it was like you know, I should Google this, I should have an answer, because I'm sure this, if one person is asking it, someone else will ask it and, Dana, it completely changed my life because Google wasn't showing me many results at all. There was so little connections being drawn between what it means to be trauma informed and to be a storyteller, and I suddenly felt this urgency that in the nonprofit space, we are solving some of the world's biggest, most challenging problems, which means we're telling very painful and difficult stories and marketers like myself I don't know about you, dana, but I do not have a social work background and it doesn't mean that we still aren't tasked with telling these really painful stories. So I really took a turn. I cut a lot of my services and last year 2023 was just this year of learning. I got many certifications in trauma and resilience and trauma informed space holding reading a lot of books and talking to a lot of people and this is what the podcast when Bearing Witnesses is is conversations with people much smarter than I. Am trying to connect these dots, so that's what's brought me here today and it's been such an incredible journey.
Speaker 2:Wow how that one question in the chat Completely changed everything about what you do. Isn't that so powerful? Just the text.
Speaker 1:Q&A at the end of a webinar. 45-minute webinar changed everything.
Speaker 2:Oh, you really do need to find who that person was.
Speaker 1:I know, I know I found the webinar and I cut off the Q&A. Ah no, you didn't know that life has changed. You don't know your life has changed until, like what, it takes 24 hours to know your life has changed.
Speaker 2:Hey, this is what I'm going to say To everyone who visits and attends a webinar your questions, your chat responses matter. They do, they matter, the engagement matter. You never know how it's going to change someone's life, so don't be afraid to get in there and ask those, maybe even like tough questions. I love that.
Speaker 1:Actually, that's a great Right and I'll tell you what Dana she knew. She knew what trauma-informed marketing and storytelling was. She was asking me in a really graceful way, to say this is something that you should be thinking about.
Speaker 2:I could tell. What does it exactly mean? What have you found out through your research?
Speaker 1:So storytelling is this ecosystem. You know there's a lot of people that are involved and I've given a few names to these people to help understand. So there's the story owner, so the people that you serve, your beneficiaries. These are the people with lived experience and they're bravely sharing their lived experiences with you. Storytellers are those of us who I consider are taking those stories, kind of like packaging them and sharing them really widely with others. And then our story receivers are our audiences, people that are consuming this and then doing these calls to actions that we're asking of them. Trauma, of course, is affecting our story owners in such a big way where, when we're asking them to tell their stories, they're vulnerable to reliving trauma in a way that is unhealthy for them. Story receivers are vulnerable in the same way because we forget how many people are drawn to our missions because of their own lived experiences. People are donating to causes that support cancer, maybe because they have a family member that passed away from cancer, or domestic violence because it may be something that they lived through earlier in life. So we forget that. So how can we tell stories in a way that gives choice to our audience and how they're going to engage with content. And then us, the storytellers, are very vulnerable to vicarious and secondary trauma when our job is to hold space over and over again for all kinds of and different kinds of difficult stories. How can we be protective of our own nervous system and our own selves as we are holding space and sharing these stories? So there are things that we can do, like really kind of clear things that we can do and a lot of this is just like a practice, things that we kind of stumble through and give ourselves a lot of grace for and just have nuanced and complicated conversations on. It's something that we're striving for. Katie Kurtz, one of my favorite teachers in the trauma informed space, has told me that this is a journey and not a destination, and I feel like we're told that for many different contexts, but this feels so true to me more than any other journey, like we're not going to land as perfectly trauma informed, but we can work towards it.
Speaker 2:Awesome. I love how you broke that down and I think subconsciously that's a lot of times what's happening right and how to understand maybe what the triggers are for what we should do when we are approached with that content, either on the receiving side or the gathering side. I wanted to talk to you about a few examples. Maybe, how this is done in practice with some clients organizations that you've worked with, can you talk about? I know there was one, thistle Farms, that is a client of yours. And how does this really start, maybe on their internal side, and then maybe we can focus on what it looks like on frontward facing.
Speaker 1:I'm so proud to be working with Thistle Farms. I have an advisory role in helping them create our speakers' bureau. Y'all listen to this If you know that reporters and your clients are often telling their stories. They are creating workshops to help people tell their own stories. So maybe that's to elected officials, maybe that is to reporters. So this is the role that I've had on is just helping them plan what this looks like, and in doing so, I got such a beautiful glimpse to their back end. And Thistle Farms, I have to say, has one of the most trauma-informed marketing departments that I have ever seen. So this is an organization ThistleFarmsorg that works with women who have been exploited and trafficked, and they actually hire these women to make all kinds of really beautiful products. And one thing that I really want to note, dana, is we typically have consent forms right, like we want people to say to protect us legally, but the consent forms that they have their clients fill out is a little bit less on protecting themselves and giving a ton of agency to them. How do you want us to talk about you? What do we not say? Can we use audio? Can we use visuals? It's just this list of choices that they can make and I think that this is the future of trauma-informed storytelling is when we don't think of consent forms. It's the super legalese piece of paper that we haven't filled out, months before we even have an opportunity to tell their story. They forget that they even filled it out. But it's really an opportunity to get story owners control. And it gets better than that. A lot of reporters go to ThistleFarms because they have such incredible stories Asking them. Is there someone in your organization who would be willing to tell their story, to be interviewed? And they have an agreement that the reporters have to sign, and so it's a good page or two on parameters, like they have to protect their privacy, they have to share the questions beforehand, they have to honor the schedule of the people that they are interviewing, they have to be respectful if someone, that person decides they're not going to ask a question and they have to be able to review the content before it goes live. And the reporters have to sign this. They have to sign it before they will set up any interviews. That's amazing, isn't that amazing? Just such another example. And also there's a time limit. So they say you can use the story for two years, but then you have to come back and you have to ask this again. You have to ask that person again if they're willing to continue to share this story. And I love this idea of holding storytellers accountable in this way, like both educating them and saying this is the standard that we're going to hold you to if you're going to tell our story. So love, love, love with this long-term story.
Speaker 2:So good Is there and maybe you have this within your repertoire now, but do you have consent form templates and reporter form templates?
Speaker 1:So what I recommend everyone to do is go to ethicalstorytellingcom, which has an excellent free media consent form that also has a list for story owners to choose what they are willing to share and not willing to share meaning maybe they just want to be in text, maybe they're willing to have their audio and video, and for how long, and so you can take that as a starting template and add to it. So I absolutely highly recommend that consent form.
Speaker 2:OK, awesome. So they have that beautiful back end created, which is amazing. And then it was interesting when I worked with Movember on their North America campaign for three years. They had a very robust brand guide about words that you say that you don't say, how you talk, specifically about suicide prevention, and there was a ton not only from the marketing standpoint, but also my role in working with them was community management and so during the time of the campaign, if we're talking about suicide prevention, there were some very vulnerable personal messages that would come through on social and we had an entire escalation process that was drafted and to follow those and what words are included and what's not, and what resource to direct them to and why it would stage Like it is a very thought out process and so that's the closest I think that I've seen to a backend that is very particular on purpose and has been trained about how to talk about certain things when you're dealing with something very severe like that. So that's amazing that they do that work, especially on the media side. I think that's very important when they've cultivated these amazing stories like on the front end, if they're to market it. What maybe does that look like in use?
Speaker 1:Right, right. I first wanna say that those working in suicide prevention are paving the way for this. They have done such a phenomenal job, but you know, if you're gonna watch a show that has to suicide, they're gonna have something in the beginning and something in the end with resources. Why aren't we doing this with every single movement, with everything? So kudos to Mavenber for doing that, and I will say, thistle Farms also has a lot of internal documents to you on what to do if this happens. But yeah, so Thistle Farms, their website is really beautiful. They're working with a really difficult topic, but they have a really bright, beautiful, hopeful, inspiring, and there's a lot of those working in exploitation that use a lot of dark colors and scary colors, and I think that your audiences feel safe just going to their website, and I wanna point you to their Instagram. They have a post that they posted at the very end of 2023. They have the sentence what did you do Crossed out and under it, what happened to you? This is the quintessential trauma-informed question. If you are about to interview someone and you're attempting to ask them, or you're thinking of asking them, what did you do, what the experts say is ask them what happened to you, so that you avoid any kind of victim blaming. And I love that they have this on their social media. It is such a great way to say this is what we stand for. We are so protective. We are advocates of the people we serve, and we want you to know how important it is to ask the right questions. When you were meeting them, and they've even told me the people that are running their store have been formally exploited and so, just being in the store, people ask them questions about what they do. So they have to be trained on how to tell their own story, not just if they're gonna be in front of a reporter, but even just by selling items in their store. So what a great way to educate people that this isn't just a simple life experience these women have. This was incredibly traumatic and I love the content that goes with this image that explains the journey of this and why it's so important to be thoughtful.
Speaker 2:Their Instagram. They have another post too. I don't know if you saw. This is from even earlier, january 9th. I just found it as I was scrolling. We'll link to these posts so you can see them, but I think this is a great example illuminating the truth behind the damaging misconceptions surrounding human trafficking. And they have myths and truths. What's a good place for an organization to start if they're thinking about like doing an analysis of their comms in this way?
Speaker 1:Right, and I love that you asked this question, because it's going to be different for every organization, and I wish I could just say like no, we all have to hold hands and decide we're going to call this this and we're not going to call it that, especially when we're talking about sex work. Right, we know there's going to be words that we shouldn't be using. We talk about being homeless versus unhoused and substance abuse versus like a substance abuse disorder, but it's actually much more complicated and nuanced than that. So I encourage you to get together with your board members, get together with people who are have the life experiences so we're in the field real range of stakeholders and pull out the language that you know you use to describe your beneficiaries and also the language you use to invite supporters. Is the language you're using evoking saviorism or is it invoking empathy? Right, and so we can be thoughtful, like we have choices in this, and list out all the words that you use, all the phrases you use, and be really open to hard conversations on how some of these might be outdated and where, maybe, internally, you can use them and not external. And this is what that might mean. Maybe in a grant, a grant, best practice is to use the same kind of language that they're using, and so it might be if they just in the grant or talking about homelessness services, maybe it's just appropriate to use that. But then you make a commitment that externally that you're going to use more appropriate language. Again, there's going to be a chance for you, opportunities to take a stand and opportunities where you are maybe a little bit more flexible, and then this is something that can be internal, which I highly encourage every organization to have a language guide. But there are some organizations one of my favorite is love 146. Yes, external, yeah. So Marilyn Murray is the communications director and I tell you, when I Googled trauma, informed marketing and storytelling, marilyn Murray did come up, so she was filling this massive void and coming up with, you know, education on this, and they have on their website and I'm sure you can put this in the show notes their language and media guide front and center in their website. And what I love about their language guide is it's not just use this, not that, which can be a little bit shaming, it's more of this is what we say and this is why and I love that they go into detail on this is why this is maybe outdated. This is why we talk about them and avoid talking about them as being victims.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I will say sometimes it's okay to call someone a victim too, if you want to be clear that the perpetrator is an actual perpetrator. There's nuance and, like level 146 will explore those kinds of nuances. When do we want to use language that describes someone as survivor and when is it appropriate to use language that describes them as a victim? You know, these are important and nuanced conversations that we need to be having and make them external, if you can.
Speaker 2:One of these is so powerful so I'm just going to read one. I'm scrolling down the level 146 language guide and it says, as a journalist, try as best you can to work with your headline writer. Oh, this is a good one. So it says we know at most publication writers don't choose the headline, but for many readers a headline is all they remember. So to make sure that the headline isn't is actually following the guidelines of everything else in language. That's so true because so many times it's just clickbait. And then is that actually giving the right authority to what the piece is talking about?
Speaker 1:Right, you can imagine all that work you're doing before, during and after, and then there's this headline that just breaks all this trust.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was such a it's actually like in towards the end, but I was like, wow, that's a good one.
Speaker 1:So good.
Speaker 2:That might even be something to put in your media guide, and it's an interesting thing, is like. Will they let you approve the headline?
Speaker 1:Right, and I hope we have some reporters and journalists listening, and I thought this is. My hope is that more and more storytellers, not just nonprofit marketers, think about how we can work above us and below us and all around us with these stories, because we only do have so much control. And I'm sure someone's gonna listen to this data and be like I know you're right, you're right, but my supervisor this, my boss that, and like how do we lead up? And I'm bringing this up without necessarily answers. I think it's going to take time, it's going to take a cultural shift for us to start changing how we write and tell stories.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you for raising your voice, to be somebody who's talking about and having a podcast that is speaking about it and providing examples and just giving space for the conversation to be had. Thank you so much for these examples. We will link to all of them in the show notes. You guys can check them out. Maria, I did want to ask you a couple of questions. In my ask and receive section, who do you think is an incredible marketer or organization that we should interview?
Speaker 1:next, there are so many people that are paving this way, but I one person who is just doing such an incredible job in the world of trauma-informed interviews is Diana Farias-Henrique, who is the founder of Albra Marketing. So she does support nonprofits with marketing. But she has all of these learned lessons when she was working in-house, all the things that she did wrong, and she created this guide on how to have truly consent conversations with your story owners, from the planning stages to the interview itself to afterwards. She has a free guide on this. I'm so inspired every time I talk to her. She's actually the third guest on my podcast. I think her work is so, so important. So do have Diana on the podcast. People will just be so grateful to hear her wisdom.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Thank you so much for that. And then I want to guess that it's maybe to listen to your podcast. But question number two what would you like to ask for help or support on?
Speaker 1:I wish I had something different than listen to the podcast, but let me tell you, listen to the podcast. I'll go ahead and go to my website and follow my email, all those things, but here's why the podcast is so important. I am not just sharing my wisdom and guidance on how to be trauma-informed, but having the messiest, messiest conversations with folks on these nuances and complexities. If you are down for that, if you're down for this journey because I think we're early enough in the space of trauma-informed storytelling and marketing where it's just going to be really messy please come to my table. Come join me on this ride. I would so appreciate it. So, yeah, please do go to when Bearing Witness, wherever you listen to your podcast and have a listen.
Speaker 2:I'm pulling up a seat, we're doing it. Thank you, dana. And then, lastly, where can listeners connect with you? So obviously the show. And then, what is your website or what social challenge do you prefer?
Speaker 1:Great, MariaBriancom and that's Brian with the Y B-R-Y-A-Ncom, where you can learn more about my work and how I go about trauma-informed storytelling spoiler with a lot of kindness, grace and empathy. The only way we can really wade through this and LinkedIn is my platform of choice, so do find me at Maria aka Brian on LinkedIn. I would love to connect with you there.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Maria. Thank you so much for all you do and for joining us today.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, Dana.
Speaker 2:Can you tell I love talking all things digital To make this show better. I'd be so grateful for your feedback. Leave a review, take a screenshot of this episode, share it on Instagram stories and tag positive equation with 1e so I can reshare and connect with you.