There are still so many people that don't know about or don't use a DAF yet, when it could greatly benefit them. We have more understanding and research about what DAFs really than a credit card, and a common complaint of donor-advised funds from the nonprofit perspective is that it made the donor feel further away or it almost like disconnected the donor. There's now an intermediary between us, so that's kind of a bad user experience from the nonprofit perspective. But with the technology that we've rolled out DAF Pay, connecting that whole experience using your DAF just like you would a credit card and the nonprofit having real-time insight into that gift and the person and their contact email and being able to then include them in all your segments and flows and all the beautiful marketing work that you do, that's a huge unlock.
Speaker 2:Hey, there, you're listening to the Missions to Movements podcast and I'm your host, dana Snyder, digital strategist for nonprofits and founder and CEO of Positive Equation. This show highlights the digital strategies of organizations making a positive impact in the world. Ready to learn the latest trends, actionable tips and the real stories from behind the feed? Let's transform your mission into a movement.
Speaker 2:Hey, hey, it's another wonderful day and episode of Missions to Movements because I get to bring back a second timer guest, mitch Stein. I am so excited to have you here in a new role with us, head of Strategy at Chariot, and we are going to be talking all about the three-letter word that's been on a lot of people's minds, and that is D-A-F, dafs. This is coming right kind of at the perfect time. We're pre-recording this episode before DAF Day on October 10th, and I have so many questions. Listeners, you might have so many questions, so I am intuitively, hopefully going to cherry pick all the right questions that you have in your mind and ask them to the wonderful Mitch Stein. If, however, I do not answer the question that is in your mind right now, mitch is wonderful at posting amazing LinkedIn content and you can reach him on.
Speaker 2:LinkedIn on the beautiful channel that it is, mitch. Welcome back to the show.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's always good to see you, Dana. I'm glad to be here. I'm glad to talk about my favorite topic.
Speaker 2:Yes, I know I'm so excited that you're back and this is a topic that we were just chatting about pre-hit record button, that I don't know that much about and so I'm really excited to ask you what might feel like some silly questions, but maybe you listeners might be like, oh okay, that's not that silly after all. So I like to you know I jump right into things and get started, and so Chariot as a company has really been a key player in donor advised funds and I think we should do like a little definition setting for those of us that are newer to DAFs. What are they? Why are they such a powerful giving vehicle for nonprofits and why is it like making this huge, like boom in our space right now? I feel like it hasn't really been talked about and then all of a sudden, maybe it's you.
Speaker 2:All of a sudden, it's like kind of blown up in conversation, I'd say in the past like year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a lot to unpack there, so please interrupt me so I'm not talking too long. So first of all, hi everybody. My name is Mitch. As Dana mentioned, I'm the head of strategy here at Chariot. We are the donor-advised fund payments company, so we do not provide DAF accounts. We help the money move in and out of them more efficiently and help nonprofits fundraise more from DAFs, especially by using our payment option, daf Pay, which can sit on your website or donation forms right at checkout, so anyone with a donor advised fund can use it when they're inspired to give online.
Speaker 2:Ooh, quick question right off the bat Are you also integrating with existing donation forms, also integrating?
Speaker 1:with existing donation forms. Yes, that's the primary method that nonprofits work with us through. So we have dozens of partners that offer fundraising tools, donation forms, crowdfunding pages, et cetera, and it's a native checkout option in GiveButter, engaging Networks, donordrive, gofundme, and we have more and more of these coming online every week. So that's our goal is to just be a payment option, just like PayPal or Venmo, on as many donation forms as possible. Beautiful, so great question, and that's always the first place to look for people if you're curious to learn more. But to get back to your original question, for folks that this is more of a one-on-one on donor advised funds, I think the best way to understand DAFs is by comparison, because they're very similar in a lot of ways to things like 401ks for retirement savings or HSA, a health savings account for your healthcare expenses, because it is a tax advantaged account that money can go into. It can be invested while it's in the account so it's in the market and growing and invested, and then can be used for a very specific and restricted purpose. In this case, it's for giving and supporting charities, so anyone can have a donor advised fund. I have a DAF that I actually get through my employer where, just like a 401k benefit, and I automatically contribute a hundred dollars a month, it's my monthly giving program, uh, which is kind of a funny way to think about it. So I have that set up automatically and then that gets automatically matched by my employer and it's automatically invested in the market. So I'm doubling my giving and then, you know, I just like pulled that up before we got on this and the market's up 15% this year, so my account is also up 15% and I'm going to use the whole thing on DAF day. So I think it's good to make it tangible for people.
Speaker 1:Yes, billionaires use this account as well to manage their philanthropy through. When you contribute money or stock or assets into your donor advised fund account, you get an immediate tax write-off up front and you then can no longer get access to that fund for anything but giving money to charity. So you can only use those accounts. There's no take-sees, back-sees Once you've put anything into a DAF account. That's why you get the tax write-off up front and then you can make grants over time. So a lot of people especially if they have a big sale of an asset or a bonus, they can put a larger chunk of money into that DAF, get the tax benefit and then make grants out of it over time to nonprofits.
Speaker 2:Okay, obsessed with this whole concept, did not know of who typically, like we, have a financial advisor. I don't think this has ever been brought up to us. Is this education happening on all fronts so that our generation of millennials knows that this is possible? And I also definitely. When I was working in the corporate world, I did not have any employer who mentioned anything to me about a DAF fund, especially not it being matched.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's so much to dig into here, because it really is like the future of giving, in my opinion, like to me it's like duh Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, especially when you're talking about employee matching programs. Like just think about it from the employer's perspective. Having to submit requests for each individual gift that you make and then the employer reviewing it and sending one-off checks to like tens of thousands of nonprofits around the country, that's crazy right. And if you simply match someone's contribution into their DAF and then you just double plus their actual giving capacity, it's more empowering for employees. You're going to have way better utilization. You have no actual administrative responsibility, as the company like makes so much sense. So that's to your question. I think that's going to be way more common and there's some great companies that offer that.
Speaker 1:And then to your second question about financial advisors. The funny thing is this market has really exploded in the last 10 years. If you run down, like the key stats, in terms of number of assets that are in donor advised funds today, that's around $230 billion. That's 5X what it was 10 years ago. If you look at the amount that's being granted to nonprofits out of donor advised funds, that's over $50 billion a year and that's 6X what it was 10 years ago. If you look at the number of accounts out there, that's around 2 million and that's 9x what it was 10 years ago, so it's exploding, but still we're at the very beginning of this wave.
Speaker 1:To your point, there are still so many people that don't know about or don't use a DAF yet, when it could greatly benefit them. And to your question about why we're hearing about this more and more, particularly in the nonprofit space or for nonprofits and then I think that's going to ultimately educate more individuals that could be benefiting from this tool as well is we have more understanding and research about what DAFs really do for people, and better understanding, I think, leads to people embracing it and talking about it more. But I also think having tools that let people use their DAF more easily than a credit card and a common complaint of donor-advised funds from the nonprofit perspective is that it made the donor feel further away or it almost like disconnected the donor. There's now an intermediary between us.
Speaker 1:The donor needs to go into their portal and submit a gift that arrives and we often don't know who it's from and it takes a lot of time and it's disconnected. So that's kind of a bad user experience from the nonprofit perspective. But with the technology that we've rolled out DAF Pay, connecting that whole experience using your DAF just like you would a credit card and the nonprofit. Having real-time insight into that gift and the person and their contact email and being able to then include them in all your segments and flows and all the beautiful marketing work that you do. That's a huge unlock. So I think it's just like all these insights and technology advancements are kind of coming to a head this year, and obviously DAF day is a big thing for people to talk about too.
Speaker 2:Yes, no, and I think you perfectly teed it up earlier when you were talking about it's going to become as commonplace as a PayPal or a Venmo or a credit card and removing that friction. And I think that's kind of the same thing that we've seen with monthly giving. Right Is 10 years ago. I was just in Sarasota talking to my first boss at the nonprofit I worked at and I asked her. I was like did we ever have a recurring giving option on a donation form? Do we even talk about it? And she's like no, it wasn't like commonplace, in that 10 years ago the subscription economy wasn't anywhere near what it is now. So this is really cool and you working on really like this.
Speaker 2:Even though it's been around, I would sense it's more like this catalyst moment of expansive growth because of technology, embracing it and making it have a more frictionless experience, and then more times that people see it like. I would imagine myself, if I'm going through and I see DAF, I'd be like wait, what is that Like as a donor? And then, out of curiosity, you'll Google it, go down the line and be like oh, I should absolutely have something like this set up. Or ask your employer and I think the more employers can talk about it as an employee benefit and that gets listed on job descriptions and just becomes kind of a top of mind known thing that's available, the more it's even going to come into conversations when you're going through like the employee-employer interview process. I know you've been out talking a lot about this. At events, what are some misconceptions that nonprofits have about DAFs and how do you think they can really better position themselves for DAF contributions?
Speaker 1:You're reading my mind because when you're just talking, I was thinking about the reason that I think a lot of people don't know about. It are those misconceptions and myths, both from, like, the individual donor side and the nonprofit perspective, and I think the single biggest one is that DAFs are a tool for the ultra wealthy.
Speaker 2:I would have thought that prior to this conversation.
Speaker 1:For sure. I mean there is certainly high correlation with DAF usage in someone's net worth and their wealth. There was a Bank of America report that came out last year that said about 10% of wealthy households are using a DAF. So while that's the highest figure, it's still so low relative to how many could be. And I would say historically it certainly was the case 10, 15 years ago. It was definitely a tool of the ultra wealthy. But a couple things have happened that have broadened its use, both in terms of who's using it and for what. The biggest one is just accessibility. So the largest staff providers out there, Fidelity and Schwab in particular, lowered their minimum account requirements so that your minimum account size was zero, $0 to create a DAF account. Those used to be $5,000, $10,000, $25,000., so anyone can get started. And they lowered the minimum grant size to $50. So for more, like everyday gift sizes.
Speaker 1:So those are two big changes. The actual technology still not perfect. That's why Chariot exists to help better connect the space. But many of these DAF providers 10 years ago you literally needed to call someone on the phone to initiate a grant request.
Speaker 2:Just like how the stock market used to be.
Speaker 1:Yes, but like 60 years behind, yeah. So, yes, the fact that experience has been brought more online is huge. There were big tax changes that happened in 2017, where the minimum standard deduction basically what would incentivize someone to actually itemize their charitable giving on their tax return, to claim the benefit on their taxes that minimum threshold went way up, like 4x, so that this year, I think, the minimum standard deduction for a married couple is almost $30,000. So if you're not giving more than that in a given year as a couple, actually none of your gifts are tax deductible because you're not deducting them. But with a DAF, you can make a larger one-time contribution.
Speaker 1:People refer to this as bunching, where, if you're the type of person that gives $5,000 to $10,000 a year, that you can put $30,000, $40,000, $50,000 into a DAF one year, particularly if you, like I said, got a bonus or a particular high earning year, and then you can grant out of that over time and still capture tax benefit.
Speaker 1:So that has just like really revolutionized how people think about these accounts and people more and more like once you set them up and this is where your tax advantage dollars have gone and your increased like giving capacity is you want to use them. You want to use them in when your friend does a birthday fundraiser, when someone's running the marathon for your monthly giving program, and those gifts are more like everyday giving we find through DAF pay. Our average gift size it's around a thousand dollars to give or take giving depending on the day, but the median gift size is actually $250. So 50% of the DAF gifts we're processing are less than 250. Now they're still much larger than the average or median credit card gift. But it's not just like the big end of your giving. People want to do this giving anytime they're inspired to give.
Speaker 2:I was going to also ask that Are there? Of course, this podcast is focused on a lot of marketing conversations, and so, from a marketing standpoint, have you seen any times of the year? Obviously, let's just put the end of the year out of the picture. If the end of the year didn't exist, is it pretty consistent, or are there other peaks for DAF use?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a great question. I should have said a little earlier. We put out a report this year called the DAF Fundraising Report. Highly recommend folks take a look at that.
Speaker 2:We'll drop a link in the show notes.
Speaker 1:Amazing we were able to analyze from 20 nonprofits that participated. We looked at five years of historical giving data to compare non-DAF and DAF giving so that a lot of first time really interesting insights on DAF donor behavior. And a couple of the important ones I found were how much more prevalent it was for DAF donors to give multiple gifts a year to the same organization. So I would start off by answering your question to say DAF donors aren't as motivated by year-end taxes because they don't get any incremental tax benefit from using their DAF. All that tax benefit happens when they contribute. Now most people are contributing to their DAF in Q4. That's when over half, over 50% of DAF contributions happen as part of their like annual tax planning. But then throughout the year they're looking to use their DAF whenever they're inspired to give.
Speaker 1:So in that report we did find some spikes that happened in, actually in January and March. I mean they weren't like super significant, like statistically significant, but we did see some bumps. And then we have theories that you know in January you've just contributed to your death, so it's kind of like topped up and full, and so then it does lead you to be thinking like, oh, where can I make some gifts. So that's one theory. March we thought like I don't know, tax filings are happening in April. It's just top of mind.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of nonprofit events in the spring. That too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's also. Just it varied a lot between organizations because it was like well, when's your big event or do you do a bike ride or anything along those lines, and people want to use their DAF in all those instances. So I think my two answers to that question would be like, as much as possible, like you should be asking and inquiring and encouraging DAF giving and I'm so glad you brought up the point about this audience being mostly marketers, because I think that's another myth is that DAF giving lives in major gifts or planned giving and it really needs to be collaboratively owned kind of across the organization and kind of have everyone bought in on that strategy, but it is core to mid-level giving. Direct response program, like all of that needs to incorporate more language around DAF giving and make it as easy as possible for those donors to make those gifts.
Speaker 2:Yes, have you in your work at Chariot seen any really great creative DAF specific campaigns?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, the most creativity we've seen is around DAF day. So, if we can, I mean, this is where people have really been shining and it's just been so cool to see us put something out in the world and create this event and so many people running with it in their own direction, which is exactly what you want to see. A couple of the best things I've seen One, I think a lot of people recognize the need for donor education. So if you're going to start soliciting DAF gifts and putting language around donor advised funds in more of your marketing, if you're not simultaneously kind of educating your audience a little bit about what this is, it can runs the risk of being a little confusing, I would say. Or at least like you want to give people some grounding, and so we see people prioritizing that education on a number of fronts. The most creative thing I've seen is the public theater here in New York created a quiz that was tied to a sweepstakes, so it was a five question quiz about what a donor advised fund is and kind of stats about the market, and if you completed it you were entered to win two tickets to a Shakespeare in the Park showing. Oh cool, and so I'm just like creativity off the charts in terms of setting up the quiz itself and making it so interactive and educational and then also having a benefit for people to engage with you on that front, amazing.
Speaker 1:Michael J Fox foundation created a landing page specific to DAF day. That had two awesome things One, a donor story with a photo of a man living with Parkinson's and his family and a story about why he uses a DAF and why he supports the Michael J Fox Foundation from his donor-advised funds Super powerful. And then right below that was a downloadable guide educating someone about donor-advised funds. That created now a lead list for them to segment for their giving campaigns. So smart, so good. The last one I'll throw out is just that the people that have put out on their blog or their website or a press release around DAF day because it's the first year they're scoring like action against hunger is one of the first things you see when you search donor-advised funds on Google.
Speaker 2:It's pretty wide open SEO territory and tapping into both the news feed of Google Ooh, you heard it here Get out that press release, get out that blog post.
Speaker 1:Totally, and there was just a study that Giving Compass and the Lilly School of Philanthropy put out. It was a survey of donor behavior for donors that use DAFs and one of the most interesting things I thought was 97% of the donors surveyed said that they do some form of research before they make a gift and after word of mouth. The second most common thing was Googling. So when someone Googles your organization plus the word DAF, what do you want to show up there? You want it to lead them to take action to benefit your organization.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's so good. These are great tactical nuggets. Thank you for sharing those. I think also, how do smaller or midsize nonprofits who might not have access to the resources of larger ones really leverage DAF effectively in their fundraising strategies? I mean, you just shared a couple like doing the blog post. The quiz is something like I've used a tool. It's called interactio. It might also be what they use at the theater. Have you seen any like kind of grassroots orgs really like take this and run with it.
Speaker 1:The most important thing for people to realize is that you already have DAF donors. I mean, you probably do have some DAF gifts you're receiving, but I absolutely guarantee you unless you are a brand new nonprofit with no donors that you have donors that have a DAF that are not using it yet, and we have tons of evidence to back this up In the DAF fundraising report. We had over 16,000 instances of a donor going from supporting an organization with a credit card or a non-DAF way of giving to using their DAF in the following year for the first time, and when they made that switch, they increased their annual support of the same organization by 96% on average.
Speaker 2:Okay, so wait why? Why would they have not been using it?
Speaker 1:So, from that Giving Compass Lilly School survey that they did of DAF donors, one of the questions they asked was did you use your DAF for your most recent gift? 37% of respondents said no, just the most recent donation that they made, citing the extra steps it takes to go log into their DAF account and send the grant request. Percent of respondents said no, just the most recent donation that they made, citing the extra steps it takes to go log into their DAF account and send the grant request. It's just easier. They're just using their credit card.
Speaker 1:So, anytime that it is not top of mind and there's a specific quote where the woman said she's like to be honest sometimes. I kind of forget Like that was her exact language and how she described why she didn't use her DAF for her last gift. So don't let people forget right, that's the single most important thing is these instances exist in every single donor file that you have DAF donors that are not using their DAF to support you today, and so reminding them and encouraging them to do so is how you're going to both know they have a DAF, which is a. Really, even though this is expanded and lots of different people use it, it is still an indicator.
Speaker 2:Well, and especially because maybe they haven't looked at that account in six months and, as you're talking about the market increase, they just have exponentially more funds now to give. They're like, oh, that's how I think about my IRA, right? I don't look at it for months and months and months sometimes, and then I'm not sure that's a good or bad thing. And then I look at it like, oh, that's nice, it's grown, or sometimes it's down or it's whatever right. But it's like, oh, okay, is money working for you because it's being invested. So I always say like, not just your organization being top of mind, but having the different channels of potential giving now top of mind too.
Speaker 1:It's a challenge of the DAF sector that we are in the middle of a shift for, and that is for people to not think about it like a savings account. Sometimes I almost say, like, should I even compare this to a 401k? Because, to your point, 401k is where you put money and you want it to sit there for a really long time, right right, you don't touch it.
Speaker 1:And where the majority of people have their DAF account next to their investment portfolio at Fidelity, at Schwab, at Vanguard, and so the user experience, like the actual interface, looks like an investment or savings account, which are designed for you to look for the balance to go up.
Speaker 1:And so we as a sector, I think as an industry, are well on the way to shifting people's mindset with a DAF to be different, to be something you're actively using and want to do all of your charitable giving through and really have it as your charitable wallet, but needs to be top of mind and it needs to be present in the places where you're inspired to give. And I think that can drive a lot of that behavior change. And that's everything that we work on every day is okay. We know daps are a powerful tool that increase people's generosity because of both. Yes, it's the tax advantages, but honestly it's like the psychology of oh, I've gone ahead and set this money aside and so the next time that you're thinking about giving you're no longer like weighing do I want to buy that new iPhone or donation? It's not out of your real-time budget, it's like you gave yourself a gift card.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And just think about your experience. When you go into a store with a gift card, you're looking for things to buy. So same way when you have a DAF, you're like you're looking for things to support. You are primed and ready.
Speaker 2:So what I love about this and you were totally my husband and I have this conversation all the time is what is going to begin as we go into 25? What is going to be our charitable contribution this year? Normally it's oh, we feel compelled. Maybe we'll say it's going to be I'm just making a round number $1,000 for the year, but it's like pepper given out right when we feel compelled. Do we actually reach that amount? Do we actually talk? Do we go over it? We don't really keep that strong of tabs on it.
Speaker 2:However, something like this, we literally let us be able to set it up, say the funds are in there, let the funds grow. Why would we not do this right, like in understanding, now that it is something that's possible? I think my only question would be and you just mentioned different partners that it's integrated with is that actual moment of transaction? And so in the next I'm going to call it a year, year, two years what trends do you see that will make this even more accessible and the influence of it within the sector? Like, what are you forecasting happening in the next? Like year, three years?
Speaker 1:It's a great question to get my crystal ball ready over here. No, I mean, I can at least speak to like what we've spent at Chariot, what we spent all of our time doing, which I would say, first and foremost, is the fundraising platforms that everyone's already using. How can we make sure that DAF pay is embedded natively in there so it's accessible to everybody? We've made a ton of progress there, but I think in the next one to two years that will be largely ubiquitous and it's a flywheel effect, right. So, to your point, the more donors see that, the more interested they are in both having that, using them.
Speaker 1:I think deeper partnerships on the donor advised fund side. I mean, I think DAF Day has you know, this is just the first year and we only announced it at the end of July, so it hasn't even had a ton of time. But in a few months we've had over 1000 nonprofit organizations join the movement and dozens of donor advised funds themselves, and those are a lot of new relationships. So I think, with another iteration of this event and nurturing those relationships, then you're also spreading the word about DAF pay and digital DAF giving from the source, right From the donor advised fund themselves. So those are two areas where we're spending a lot of time to make this more ubiquitous, and then I think there's the actual functionality.
Speaker 1:So a big thing that you talk about obviously a ton on your podcast is monthly giving and recurring giving. It is something that DAF donors actually do a lot of, even if nonprofits don't track them as recurring donors, because there's no way to know that that's actually what they've opted in to pay to pay. But when I just was pulling up the Fidelity report for 2024, nearly 80% of the grants that went out from Fidelity accounts were either a recurring gift or a regrant to an organization they'd supported before. Wow, because in their portal they can set up a recurring gift. Or, to your point, you get to December and you're like, oh shit, did we get to all?
Speaker 2:of our, but that data doesn't integrate with their CRM, or can it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so today the gifts are arriving.
Speaker 1:If it's Fidelity, it's an ACH transfer that's processed by, maybe like someone on your finance team, and then maybe someone in major gifts like knows that person, and so they might just see that there's a gift coming in every year or every quarter, but no one, or very few people, are connecting the dots as to like, oh, that's a recurring donor.
Speaker 1:And so I'd say the way we can move this forward because these are great, these are loyal donors, they're generous, they are intentional, these are the people that you want to be reaching in those like relationship building programs, like your monthly giving program and I think two ways that we are going to enhance both that reach and experience. Number one we have just updated in the last few weeks the Chariot technology can now, for DAF pay, can be set to initiate a monthly recurring DAF pay grant within your donation forms, so that it's just like someone using a credit card and then you get their email and you can steward them and engage them in the same way. The other is just prioritizing, looking at your DAF gifts and working with other members on your team to say like, hey, we want to be intentional about how we steward these people and if you see them giving recurring gifts, let's make sure that we are recording that within our own recurring giving program or manually entering them into that system, that we communicate with them through Right, because, yeah, that's a huge combined opportunity.
Speaker 2:Amazing. Okay, this has been fabulous, mitch. I am so grateful that DAF has you in their life now. Thank you for all of the education that you are providing and, I hope, this podcast, please. I think this is so important for financial literacy for donors and nonprofits, so please use this as an example piece of content to share with other nonprofit peers, other donors put it in your email newsletter Like this, literally conversation. I think is a perfect 30 ish minute segment that somebody can go through to hear some of the answers to these questions that we talked about today. If you have more questions, mitch, where can the lovely people find you?
Speaker 1:They can obviously find me on LinkedIn. I spend way too much time there and, as my boyfriend would tell you, I'd make myself too accessible but I respond to all of your messages there, so please DM me then if you have them and let's connect. And my final suggestion, or ask for any fundraisers or marketers listening to this, is open your own DAF account.
Speaker 1:Like if you feel like lots of donors, if people are talking about it, it's free. We have a blog post about this that lists out a bunch of those options DAFI, charityvest If you use Fidelity or Schwab, like, just set up an account, then you'll better understand your donor's experience and you will better be able to talk to donors about this topic, which is huge donors experience and you will better be able to talk to donors about this topic, which is huge.
Speaker 2:I'm going to put that blog in the show notes, no excuses, I'm going to talk to them, we're going to do it. This is so exciting and I also can't wait to hear I mean, obviously, daft Day has technically happened at this time. Can't wait to see everything that happens on that day. And then, yes, I mean the volume of conversation, the use of it is only going to continue to go up. So, thank you, thank you for everything you're doing and coming on to the podcast today.
Speaker 1:Thanks for having me. Great to see you, Dana.
Speaker 2:You too, can you tell I love talking all things digital To make this show better. I'd be so grateful for your feedback. Leave a review, take a screenshot of this episode, share it on Instagram stories and tag Positive Equation with one E so I can reshare and connect with you.