Code and the Coding Coders who Code it
We talk about Ruby, Rails, JavaScript, and everything in between. From tiny tips to bigger challenges we take on 3 questions a show; What are you working on? What's blocking you? What's something cool you want to share?
Code and the Coding Coders who Code it
Episode 48 - Adam Wathan
Join us as we unravel the inspiring journey of Tailwind CSS with its creator, Adam Wathan. From its inception in 2017 as an open-source CSS framework to becoming a major player in web design, Tailwind has recently undergone a significant rebranding with the launch of Tailwind Plus. This episode provides listeners with insights into Adam's strategic choices, including the reasoning behind merging Tailwind UI into the broader Tailwind ecosystem.
Discover the challenges and outcomes of balancing community-driven development with commercial viability, as Adam shares how feedback shapes product improvements. Learn about the launch of "Build UIs That Don’t Suck," an initiative designed to foster user engagement and demonstrate Tailwind's quality. Adam also reflects on the importance of sustaining a business model while nurturing open-source passion, offering invaluable advice for anyone in the tech space.
Whether you're a developer, designer, or just interested in entrepreneurship, this episode is packed with insights, revealing the artistry behind code and the business. Don't miss it! Subscribe, share, and let us know what you've learned!
Honeybadger is an application health monitoring tool built by developers for developers.
Judoscale
Autoscaling that actually works. Take control of your cloud hosting.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Code and the Code Encoders. Who Code it? I'm your host, drew Bragg, and it's my honor today to be joined by Adam Wathen from Tailwind. Adam, for anyone who somehow is unfamiliar with you, would you please introduce yourself?
Speaker 2:So I'm Adam. I'm the guy who made Tailwind CSS originally way back in 2017. So I've been working on Tailwind full-time, I think, since beginning of 2019. And over that time we've kind of built up a small team working on it full-time. There's like eight of us now. So, yeah, day-to-day I'm kind of just like working on Tailwind CSS and supporting the team and exploring different ways that we can improve it and sort of the surrounding ecosystem.
Speaker 1:So, for anyone new to the show, the way this is going to work is I'm going to ask Adam three questions. I'm going to ask him what he's working on, what kind of blockers he has. If he doesn't have a current blocker, you can talk about the most recent blocker he had and how we went about solving it. And then the last question is what's something cool, new or interesting that you've recently learned or discovered coding related? But of course this is Code Encoders, so it can be. So let's dive in Adam what are you working on?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's actually a really big day for us because I think, like half an hour ago, we just shipped like a big rebrand of Tailwind UI, which is like the commercial sort of arm of Tailwind CSS. So we renamed that whole product from Tailwind UI to Tailwind Plus with the plan to sort of open up the scope a little bit. So, instead of just purely being focused on UI components and templates, which it has in the past, make it something that has some more potential for us to work on other interesting things in that space. But it was a really huge project because we had to redesign the whole site. We had to get everything working under the new brand. One of the motivations for doing it was we didn't want to have two separate domains anymore, so we wanted to have everything hosted on TailwindCSScom so that when someone searches for Tailwind Navbar, for example, we get the domain authority of the actual Tailwind domain instead of having to compete on this like fresh domain. So that's kind of like the biggest thing that we just shipped today.
Speaker 2:But also, at the exact same time, I just launched this little mini course that I've been working on for the past couple of weeks, which is another kind of marketing related project, but I put together this thing that I called build UIs that Don't Suck. So it's like six videos where I kind of find a little common lack of polish error detail mistake that I see people make in different common UI patterns and walk through some sort of different ways of solving it, which was pretty fun to put together. So we kind of finished that officially like on Friday I think and pushed that up today too. The goal is to sort of use it to sort of build up some trust and authority with, like people who maybe are new to Tailwind and get people more interested in some of the commercial stuff, because maybe they'll think I've learned a lot here.
Speaker 2:These guys really know what they're doing. I'll probably get a lot of value out of, like all these pre-built components and stuff like that to have all this same level of attention and detail put into it. But even for people who aren't ever going to be potential customers, hopefully it's still just a cool resource where they can learn some interesting stuff. So, yeah, big shipping day for us today, good timing. Yeah, all that stuff just went live in the last half hour. So we're watching the server logs and the Twitter comments and stuff. We haven't even announced it on Twitter yet. We're kind of just like putting it out quietly to see what's broken first. So that's what we've been up to.
Speaker 1:Big day for Tailwind. I mean, there's so many aspects, I guess, of Tailwind, like you have the code and the actual CSS, but then Tailwind Plus, your product, and now you're doing video course. How do you guys decide what to do next to enhance the Tailwind brand?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think generally we've kind of seesawed back and forth between open source improvements and then stuff on the commercial side, to make sure that the open source stuff is still sustainable. So we just released Tailwind 4 in January still sustainable. So we just released Tailwind 4 in January and that was a big year-long project basically, where we've been very focused on that and haven't really been able to put a lot of effort into anything on the commercial side that whole time. So it definitely felt like time to circle back and breathe some new life into the commercial stuff. And I think we have a little bit more of that to do going forward and I've spoken about this on my own podcast too where the revenue and stuff for us has been starting to shrink a little bit too.
Speaker 2:So we've had to prioritize the business a little bit more than we have in the past and think a bit more strategically about what do we need to do to actually get things growing again, whereas in the past things have just worked out and with no effort and we've just been able to kind of do whatever we wanted, which we certainly didn't take for granted. But we're definitely having to think a bit more strategically and put some systems in place. So that was kind of the motivation for doing the email course if we can find some new customers for Tailwind Plus there. So now we're probably going to continue investing a bit more into that side of things and make sure that it still feels kind of fresh and stuff. So that's kind of like our immediate motivations.
Speaker 2:But eventually we're definitely going to start to feel like, okay, it's been a while since there's been a Tailwind release, got to kind of keep the energy up there too. So it's generally just been kind of like a lot of seesawing between those two sort of focuses at the business. So it's definitely business season right now and I'm sure probably come the fall we'll be hardcore back in open source season. We do have some open source stuff we want to work on at the same time. That is kind of like supporting the commercial stuff. That's kind of the best place to be, I find, is when we can find something to do. That lets us push both things forward at the same time, but not always the case. But yeah, that's kind of how we're thinking about things right now anyways.
Speaker 1:I guess the first question actually should be did you see Tailwind becoming a business in 2017 when you first started it?
Speaker 2:No, the goal of releasing Tailwind in the first place was actually more of like an engineering as marketing thing for another business I was trying to build. So I was working on like a checkout platform. I'd been selling courses and books online and I kind of just wanted to build exactly what I wanted to be able to sell that stuff. So I started working on that and I was live streaming my work on it and everyone was really interested in what I was doing for styling things, which caught me by surprise because I hadn't really thought too much of it. It was just like really early version of Tailwind. Before I would have ever called it a framework, I thought of it as just like custom CSS, but I was just using a lot of utility classes and then, because so many people were interested in it, I decided to open source it and the name Tailwind comes from. The original app was called Kite Tail, so I called it Tailwind, so it would like be tied into that. The goal was make that open source project popular, to bring awareness to like the product that it was sort of extracted from. But yeah, eventually I just like abandoned that and Tailwind became a business instead.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it was never the intention for Tailwind itself to become the business.
Speaker 2:It didn't really become clear that that was the thing to do until, I would say, late 2018, right around the time me and Steve released the Refactoring UI book.
Speaker 2:Tailwind had gotten quite popular already and there's already a lot of established paths for that type of tool to have a business built around it, like Bootstrap, heather Theme Store sites like Theme Forest were really big, so it felt like we could build some stuff like that and find a way to finance the work on Tailwind that way, because that was really the goal. My goal has never been to build a business. My goal has just been to have the freedom to work on whatever I want, and the thing I liked working on the most was Tailwind. So finding some way to work on Tailwind as much as possible was definitely the goal, and that's the path that we took, and it's definitely gotten bigger than I ever anticipated, both as an open source project and as a business. I don't think I ever expected to have a team of people like we have now Admittedly a small team, but still I never imagined in my life I would be an employer, so it's pretty wild, preston.
Speaker 1:Pyshko. That is very cool to go from I'm working on one project to I'm going to open source a part of that one project to now it's my full-time job and I employ people yeah for sure A little daunting, I guess too at times.
Speaker 1:If you've never really planned on having employees and now you suddenly do, that's a whole new world outside of engineering. So Tailwind wasn't ever necessarily supposed to be a business, but eventually it did. You wanted to make enough money to be able to work on it full time. So how do the various ideas I mean I guess the Tailwind UI would now is Tailwind Plus as a given, because that's how other models do it? Is that the only way you guys are making money with Tailwind? Yeah, I mean effectively.
Speaker 2:We still sell, like Refractoring UI, the book I wrote with Steve. That's like an asset within the same business, so that also contributes. It's like a smaller percentage for sure, but that's kind of it. So that's something I think we want to figure out how to expand in the future. I mean kind of probably tying into the perfect answer to your next question, like the blockers question. Let's do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't know if this is quite a blocker in the sense of how maybe other people would answer this question in a more technical sense, but definitely like a challenge we're constantly facing. That I still just feel like I haven't cracked, is just trying to figure out, is like there's something we could do for businesses, because I feel like we have this weird reverse business where we make our money selling a product to I wouldn't say consumers, but they're like individuals, so like hobbyist prosumer types, people who buy Tailwind UI for side projects and stuff like that. That's the bulk of it. We also do sell team licenses, but I think our biggest Tailwind CSS users actually don't buy Tailwind UI or Tailwind Plus because they have big teams of designers and they want to build their own design systems, so they don't really need the development of Tailwind. For companies like OpenAI and Shopify to use the Tailwind as an open source tool you know which kind of feels like a little bit backwards. So it'd be cool to find some sort of way Like I'm always just trying to think like what is the obvious thing that I'm missing that we could do that'd be valuable for these bigger companies that depend on the open source stuff, and even just thinking about like, how can we diversify the product lineup, because it is sort of crazy that we just depend on selling this one thing. That's a one-time purchase with like lifetime access. There's just zero recurring revenue, even though revenue is quite stable and predictable. But that's why we're experimenting with this email course as maybe a way to increase the conversion rate or bring more awareness to the product from the same traffic that we already have. Because the Tailwind CSS website. It gets an insane amount of traffic because people are just going to the docs and stuff like that. I think if you told any hardcore internet marketer person the amount of traffic that we get there compared to the revenue that we make, they would be I don't know. I believe that someone who knows what they're doing could turn that traffic into a much bigger business than what we have.
Speaker 2:Probably in ways that I wouldn't really be that excited about Selling dick enlargement pills and stuff like that, that type of thing, that level of shadiness. But that's something that's on my mind a lot generally and something like I'm trying to think through a lot this year is just like, what else can we do? Especially, what else can we do without it being a too big of a distraction from the open source stuff, because I think continuing to improve that's really important for the business, but also that's like where we have the most fun. And if this becomes something that's really important for the business but also that's like where we have the most fun, and if this becomes something that's not really fun anymore because we're too hyper-focused on trying to make the business work, that just doesn't feel like a success to me, even if it's financially successful.
Speaker 2:So yeah, like we tried doing a job board and that didn't really work, because I don't think people really identify as, like, tailwind developers. I think like it's not like the core part of your stack, like being a rails developer or a laravel developer or a react developer or something. It's just kind of a tool that everyone uses on the side, but it's not a job title, which was kind of a bummer. I thought that would have been cool if that worked out, but didn't really work out. But thankfully, like tailwind ui slash tailwind plus pays the bills, happily, but that's just a constant thing I'm trying to crack is what else is out there for us as a business?
Speaker 1:How do you go about coming up with those ideas? Are you just going off on your own and thinking maybe this would work, or are you looking at how other projects and teams subsidize open source work, or you work with someone who just is brilliant marketer or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say a few different things. One is just sitting around and thinking really hard. Sometimes you come up with ideas that way, definitely just paying attention to all the inputs that you have as you just live your life and noticing what are people doing in totally different industries. Is there anything to be learned from this? Just like running a small business like ours, you just start to think about things differently. Even when you go to the coffee shop there's like my local coffee shop for the longest time, if you wanted to use their debit machine or tap to pay, they couldn't accept tips on there. They could only accept tips in cash. And it's like man, this is like your lowest hanging fruit at the whole business is to replace this machine because everyone is paying with their card and now no one can tip you. You just start noticing things like that.
Speaker 2:But I would say I do have a good, solid network of friends that I like to bounce ideas off of. I try to organize at least one get-together a year where we'll fly somewhere with some people that I really respect and we just talk business for three days. Those kind of really deep things. We always come out of that with some good ideas. I think a surprising one for me is I actually get a lot of ideas from giving advice to other people. It kind of just flips things around and I don't know. It's really easy to fix other people's businesses and hard to fix your own. But sometimes you'll fix something for someone else and realize I just told this guy to do this and we're not doing that. And that's where the idea for this email course came from was talking to somebody else and suggesting you should do some sort of lead magnet on your website so you can pitch this thing to people more easily and I was like wait a minute, like we don't even do that. What are we doing?
Speaker 1:light bulb, that's cool. Yeah, I like the giving advice to others. Yielding the light bulb moment for you of like that was a great idea. I just gave wire 100 this idea. That's awesome. The other thing that you mentioned was Tailwind. V4 just came out, big project for you guys. Two questions what's your favorite part of V4? Like your favorite change and what was the most challenging part?
Speaker 2:I think my favorite user facing thing is the CSS based configuration. So we used to have this JavaScript configuration file where you configure all your custom colors and breakpoints and all sorts of stuff, and in V4, we've kind of figured out how to express all that stuff in CSS instead, which I think was a weird change for a lot of people. But I think most people who have tried it definitely prefer it, because before you had to have a CSS file anyways and some things you kind of had to like do half of it in the JavaScript file, half of it in CSS file, like if you're adding a custom font, you'd add the custom font in your JavaScript file as part of like your design system in terms of like naming and stuff. But you still had to add like the CSS font face rule to your CSS file. So things were kind of just like spread around but by doing it all on the CSS file.
Speaker 2:Now it's like one less file that you have to have and I kind of like the limitations it puts on you too. You can't do like loops and crazy stuff. It forces you to be simpler, which is something I appreciate more and more as I age Just like the simplest, least clever stuff that I can just come back to in six months and understand right away. I don't know, that's kind of like my jam.
Speaker 1:The simplicity that I can read later on.
Speaker 2:It's sort of boring, but I know the older you get, the nicer. Like a nice little for loop looks over a chain of flat maps and whatever, and I wrote a whole book on how excited I was about those topics years ago, but I would say that's like my favorite user facing feature. I'm equally excited about just the fact that we rewrote the entire thing from scratch, though, and the code base makes sense because it didn't used to. It was just like bandaid after bandaid painting on top of old paint trying to like patch things up, and once you've worked on it for years and years and years, years, you just start to like have a better mental model of like what the system needs to do and getting a chance to just like write code that actually expresses that properly. It's nice to be proud of the code base again, because it had really spiraled into like chaos in terms of like most challenging thing. I'm trying to think it.
Speaker 2:Generally. It feels like we had like a working prototype that was basically good enough for us to use in a month, starting from scratch, and then it took 11 months until it was ready to actually release. A lot of it is quirky edge cases. Our Vite plugin has been quite difficult to get right because we think it works and then someone opens a bug report that it doesn't work in Astro, because Astro actually runs two V builds and because there's two separate processes they can't talk to each other, so half the classes end up missing in the production build of the CSS file. Like you know, weird stuff like that. There was a lot of challenges around just designing some of the CSS based APIs and there's still like at least one feature I can think of from v3 that we don't have support for before yet because of just not being able to design the right API for it that can be expressed in CSS yet. So that's been some really challenging stuff, stuff.
Speaker 2:Probably the biggest grind of the whole thing was updating the entire documentation website, because it seemed like it shouldn't have been a big project because it's all so templated, but still somehow it was an enormous effort. That took like six people on the team working full time on it for like two months, because we basically had compete with MDN in terms of like content. Every CSS property has a page and all of it needs to be gone through and make sure it still makes sense with the changes and stuff like that. So it was a big project overall and we're still kind of ironing out some of the wrinkles, issues that people are raising and stuff. But it's feeling pretty good right now and it's nice to be able to work on some new stuff for a change, because once you're deep into something for a year, it doesn't matter how fun and how excited you are about it. It becomes a death march eventually.
Speaker 1:The one thing that I guess in my adventures in CSS land and I am a full stack engineer, but I err more towards the back end of things the thing that always makes me beat my head against the wall with CSS is like what browsers do and don't support things, and I think it's gotten a little bit better now that IE isn't a thing anymore, but Safari sometimes bites me in the ass. But how do you guys in that being your main thing, how do you keep on top of that or know when it's appropriate to use x, y or z a?
Speaker 2:couple different factors. So there's this website. Can I usecom, which is really great for just yeah, I live there checking which browsers support different css features.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I'm on there all the time trying to get data about really modern features and where they're supported and stuff like that. In terms of adding stuff to Tailwind, it depends on the impact of the change. So with v4, for example, we depend on some pretty modern CSS features. Like add property is a very new way of like declaring typed CSS custom properties. The whole framework like just simply won't work if the browser doesn't support that feature, because it's like underpins a lot of different things in Tailwind and we also use the color mix function to be able to change the alpha value of colors at runtime in the browser instead of having to compute it at build time, which lets us adjust the transparency of CSS variable-based colors or the current color keyword and stuff like that. So that's another feature that touches a lot of the framework. So for stuff like that, we're pretty careful about making sure we're comfortable with the browser support, and Tailwind 4 is pretty aggressive in that sense. It only supports like Safari 16.4 and up, which is like a two-year-old version of Safari or two and a half-year-old version of Safari. So I would say that's still too cutting edge for like a lot of people. But we only do like a new major version of Tailwind every three to four years. So we try in the very early minor patch releases of a new major version to be pretty aggressive so that the shelf life of that major version is quite long. So we don't have to like release V5 until whatever 2028 or something at this point, and by then everyone will be totally fine with the browsers that are being targeted by v4. It was the same thing with v2 and v3. I think it was v2 that started depending on CSS variables, which at the time was controversial. But now it's like are you kidding me? What world are you building for where you can't use CSS variables? So we're always like on the bleeding edge with that stuff. But then there's a lot of other CSS features that only surface in Tailwind through like an individual utility class, like TextRap Balance and TextRap Pretty are pretty modern CSS features that I'm not sure if Firefox supports TextRap Balance. There's at least one browser that doesn't support text wrap pretty still, and I can't remember which one it is. But for those particular CSS features, even if you use them, if the browser doesn't support it, it'll just gracefully degrade to just not wrapping nicely and now you'll have an orphaned word instead of your headline being balanced.
Speaker 2:Site's not broken. Maybe the design isn't exactly what you want, but it's not broken. And even for the stuff that like would be broken, you still get to choose whether to use it or not. So if there's a feature that's only supported by Chrome, well, maybe you just like can't use that utility if you're building something for the web, but if you're building an electron app, like, you can't because that's only Chrome anyways. Or you're building an internal thing where you know like, yeah, we all use chrome at work for our dashboard, or there might be a feature that is supported by the very bleeding edge version of all three browsers and you just know that your audience is going to use those browsers, so you just don't care, so you can use it.
Speaker 2:The other reason we try to support, like really modern features in tailwind is just so that if someone wants to play with a new css feature, they don't have to like go use vanilla css to do it, if they're using tailwind all the time anyways. So even if you can't use it in a site, it's nice that you can play with it and learn how it works so that, like, you're aware of it and can use it when it is like more available. So, yeah, we're not very conservative, I guess is the point when it comes to like including features in tailwind. And that, I think, has paid off, because if you compare us to like bootstrap, for example, bootstrap has always been a lot more conservative where it was.
Speaker 2:Only in the past couple years, I think, that their grid has been moved to css grid instead of Flexbox because they just want to make sure it works for everybody, which is like a totally noble, valid perspective and point of view, and that's kind of the path that they chose, which I think is, again, a totally valid one. We kind of picked the opposite one, which is to just like let people do whatever they want and thankfully, because it's a utility framework where everything is so low level, we can support those things without it raising the browser requirements for everyone, whereas Bootstrap can't do that For them. They're building abstractions on top of things. In Tailwind, you can build a Flexbox grid or a CSS-based grid. It's up to you. Just pick the Flexbox utilities or pick the grid utilities, but in Bootstrap it's call spin whatever. You don't know under the hood what they're using, you just know that you want a grid, so it makes sense that they're more conservative there, because they want to make sure that it works for more people right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, cool. Like I said, slightly more on the back end of things, so don't envy any of that, but it is cool to hear how much like even CSS has those same like how do we balance this and how do we make this decision versus that decision? Because I think some people do just download bootstrap and they're just like oh, I have a card, I'm done, I don't need to think about anything else, it's easy for us to take for granted to like just like how deeply and intimately familiar we are with, like what's happening with CSS and what browser support and stuff.
Speaker 2:And I think we could do a better job in our docs surfacing on different pages like what is safe to use and what browsers and stuff like that for sure. Because, yeah, a lot of people they just see a feature, oh yeah, this solves my problem and it works in my browser and don't even really think about checking the browser support.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just have to have a little link to can. The last question in the show format. I'm sure I will ask you something else too, but it is my favorite because I get such a wide variety of answers. What is something cool, new or interesting that you want to share with the audience?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I think the thing that I've been kind of like really pumped about the last couple of weeks is because I was recording that video course. I've been really jazzed about trying to get my office set up and gear set up, upgraded so that I could actually do on camera stuff, cause I come from the era of rails cast and destroy all software, where a screencast was just a recording of your screen and audio track in the background and that used to be good enough, you know but in this day and age, everyone wants the fancy on camera, highly produced video stuff.
Speaker 2:So I've done a little bit of it in the past but was never really super happy with the results. So that's something I've been like super nerding out about and getting into. So I did a bunch of work in my office. I went and bought some fake plants and put up these like acoustic panels behind me and hung a bunch of more acoustic panels around the room. I bought this like fancy Audio-Technica shotgun mic that's like out of frame right now but sounds pretty good for being out of frame, I think and upgraded my camera to this like crazy Sonyx3 camera with this fancy lens and I know this is a podcast, so no one else can see what I'm saying but it looks really good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it looks like figuring out all the lighting has been fun. I really wanted it to look like daylight in my office, not like dark mode gamer room vibe that so many people go for on youtube, where everything's black with neon lights and stuff and that's really tricky to nail. So I still have natural light coming into my office but it's very hard to control. So I bought this other big light and this giant soft box that's four feet by three feet so I can totally black out the windows and put that where the window is and try to simulate like what the light coming from the window would look like. I saw Steve Tenuto who does video stuff with Aaron Francis. I don't know if you're familiar with him, but he posted like a cool picture of his setup the other day. The windows behind him in his garage he like put LED lights that were the same size as the windows outside of his house pointing into the windows and the pictures he took are in like 9pm at night but it looks like daytime because there's like this bright LED light coming through those windows and I got excited about that because I was like man. I've always been trying to crack this look of making it look like it's daytime in the office and looking at his, I was thinking, man, I think like one of the secrets here is like seeing a window, because, like it's just subconsciously, if you see a window and light is coming through the window, you just believe it's day. And if there's no windows in this shot, then it's hard to know. Now I don't have any windows in this shot, but I was looking into like getting like a fake led window that I could put on the wall like behind me, so you could see it like a little bit in the corner. Ultimately I figured out that it still just like works out, I think, as long as, like there is some natural light. But I'm looking forward to playing with that other light. And in some of the test shots we were doing, just having like really overexposed sections helps even to like if it looks like there's a really bright light shining on your desk and there's like a section that's like basically white and you can't see anything. It's another just like trick that like tricks your mind into thinking there's like some bright light coming through the window or something. So that's been like my world for the last like couple weeks is just like nerding out about camera gear and lighting and Steve, my business partner, came by for like a full day to like set everything up with me, which was fun.
Speaker 2:I don't know, you have to put things in the weirdest places for it to like look good on camera. Like my monitor is not in the middle of my desk, it's like shifted way to the front of my desk and it's not straight, it's like angled, because that's what was needed to make it look straight on the camera. And like the pictures on the wall are probably not at the right height that they should be for just a room. We just like sat here and like looked at the camera and just moved the pictures until they like looked like a good spot, stuff like that. So none of it makes any sense in the room, but it looks good on camera and it's just a fun thing to sort of learn about lighting and gear and playing around with stuff, just like a new thing to geek out about. So yeah, that's what I've been deep into recently.
Speaker 1:There you go. I feel like everyone finds something like that. Some people geek out about fonts and they're always rotating their fonts. Some people do it with keyboards, you do it with camera and lighting gear. It also plays a part in your business, so it's all right, that's for sure, for sure. Very cool. Well, I greatly appreciate you spending time, taking time out of your day to come on the show and talk about Tailwind and your adventures with it. Is there anything else you wanted to talk about before we wrap?
Speaker 2:up. No man, I mean happy to answer any other questions, but yeah, I'm glad that we could do this finally. I know we've been trying to like make it happen for a while. We're having some issues with my power going out and in the middle of calls and stuff like that, but glad we can finally do it today and I think probably it worked out for the best because I got had more interesting stuff to talk about now that I did then. Anyways, but yeah, I appreciate your patience.
Speaker 1:No, that's cool and you had a huge day for you, for sure. And the nice thing about the show format is the next time you guys do something cool tailwind we can have you on the show to talk about it again, it's always what are you working on? So I guess, as a wrap up, where can people find you? And tailwind on the internet.
Speaker 2:So tailwind is just tailwindcsscom.
Speaker 1:Best place to find me is on Twitter or X, whatever we call it now, Just X dot com slash Adam Watham, Cool man. I again greatly appreciate your time and looking forward to having you on again.
Speaker 2:Thanks, man, I really appreciate you.
Speaker 1:The invite? Yeah, absolutely, and, listeners, we'll see you in the next episode. Bye.
