SEE Change with Annie Seelaus
Welcome to SEE Change with Annie Seelaus!
See Change is a podcast that was created to amplify the voices of amazing women across industries and sectors, and share their unique stories. Our hope is that this podcast will inspire women to disrupt the status quo and promote the next generation of change.
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SEE Change with Annie Seelaus
Entrepreneur Spotlight with Special Guest Genevieve Bellaire of Realworld
Podcast Show Summary
On this episode we welcomed the fabulous Genevieve Bellaire, Founder and CEO of Realworld, a tech startup designed to assist Gen-Z in transitioning to adulthood. Realworld offers guidance on various life topics often overlooked in school, such as finances, healthcare, and taxes.
Genevieve says that when she started Realworld, she wasn’t trying to build a startup, she was trying to solve a personal problem: Why is life as an adult so overwhelming? She shares anecdotes about the challenges and triumphs she has faced along the way, underscoring the importance of adaptability in the rapidly changing tech landscape and how she and her team are leveraging AI and the multitude of ways that it can be incorporated into the tool. Hear about the evolution of Realworld from its inception as a comprehensive educational platform to its current state as an innovative AI-driven app.
Annie delves into Genevieve’s vision for the future, exploring how Realworld plans to expand its offerings and further empower young adults to navigate the complexities of modern life with confidence and ease.
Tune in to hear about the entrepreneurial spirit that drives Genevieve and her team, as well as valuable advice for aspiring entrepreneurs looking to make their mark. Whether you're a recent graduate, a young professional, or simply interested in innovative solutions for adulthood, this episode promises to be both enlightening and inspiring!!
About R. Seelaus & Co., Inc.
R. Seelaus & Co., Inc. was founded in 1984 by Richard Seelaus, originally as a municipal bond broker-dealer. The firm has since become a certified women's business enterprise ("WBE") and has grown into a full-service financial firm that is mission driven in its commitment to creating more opportunities for women in the financial services. R. Seelaus & Co., Inc. and its subsidiaries offer investment advisory, asset management, capital markets, brokerage, fixed income and equity trading, institutional sales, leveraged finance and insurance services. The R. Seelaus & Co., LLC subsidiary is a broker dealer registered with the SEC and member of FINRA, and the subsidiary Seelaus Asset Management, LLC, is an SEC Registered Investment Advisor ("RIA"). With various fixed income trading desks and more than seventy professionals, both entities serve individuals, families, public and private companies, non-profit organizations, and institutional investors. The firm has offices in NJ, CT, New Jersey, Connecticut, Illinois, South Carolina, and Massachusetts.
For more information about R. Seelaus & Co., and its subsidiaries visit www.rseelaus.com
Um, well, Genevieve, welcome uh to Sea Change. We're so excited to have you. We love talking to female entrepreneurs. We love talking to women who have stepped outside their comfort zone, taken a twist in their career, taken a risk and tried something and built something because they saw a need. So you tick every one of those boxes. Um, why don't we start out? It would be great for you to tell us a little bit of your background um and how you got into this.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, of course. Well, thank you so much, Annie, for having me. I really appreciate it and had the chance to listen to a couple of episodes, and it's just amazing the people you've had on the show. So really honored to be here too. Um, so I am a lawyer-turned entrepreneur. Um, I graduated from college, went straight into law school, ended up doing a JD MBA, and then began my career on Wall Street. And essentially realized as soon as I started working that despite being very fortunate to have an amazing education, I really was totally unprepared to navigate adulthood, so to speak, and the real world. Um, I remember distinctly walking up Sixth Avenue um with this packet of paperwork from my employer, like day one, you know, 401k stuff, W4 forms I9 forms, all this stuff, health insurance, and just being like, this is so crazy. I'm a lawyer, I have an MBA, but like I have no idea what this stuff means, like how to fill out these documents, and just a very kind of frustrating experience. Um, and I'm the oldest kid in my family, so I didn't have an older brother or sister who I could basically phone a friend and be like, what credit card should I get? Should I get renter's insurance? Like figuring out these different questions. Um, so long story short, I ended up kind of through this kind of aha moment, came up with this idea for real world, um, which is essentially an AI-driven co-pilot for life that helps you navigate adulthood and big life moments by having one platform for your finances, health insurance, tax, employer paperwork, all of the life stuff that I didn't learn in school and most people don't learn in school, to sort of simplify all those different processes. Um, but that was really the impetus for how I got to be here and um how kind of began the journey.
Annie S.:That's amazing. And actually what you're saying resonates so much with me. I remember thinking back on that time, and I'm like embarrassed to admit, I just ignored it all. I was like, oh, well, 401k health insurance, I'm sure I have those things. And, you know, there would come time to tick certain boxes or, you know, what have you. And I just sort of closed my eyes and was like, I'll figure this out one day, or um it'll come up because there's an issue. So um I think what you're saying is probably a lot of people's lived experience. And, you know, you're Princeton, you went to Georgetown and you were working at Goldman Sachs. So if it's a question mark for someone in that situation, it's probably a question mark for most people.
SPEAKER_00:Well, it's no, I appreciate it. You know, it's it's so funny too, because it very much was like not a me problem, but a we problem. And I started to realize that um, because initially I was like, oh, kind of embarrassed and kind of keeping this to myself essentially. Like, why didn't I figure these things out? Or like, how can I not understand these things? But I started talking to more and more people and realizing that it was kind of this like big unkept secret that just no one knows what they're doing, no one really pays attention to a lot of these little details that if you get right, can set you on this amazing path to success, building wealth, staying healthy, you know, going to the doctor every year, like things along those lines. And if you don't, like can sort of lead to the other direction. So I completely I feel the same way. It's like this thing that no one, you don't even know what you don't know, so to speak.
Annie S.:No, that's exactly right. So tell us a bit more about the app and how the users interact with it. Is it education and then you can move on to sort of warehousing your own data?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So as probably most entrepreneurs would tell you, the product has evolved a million times since it's organs. Um, it's always had the same mission, which is to simplify adulthood, help people navigate the real world. And actually, and we can get into this as well. Now with AI, it's actually about automating adulthood, not just simplifying it. But essentially, when we got started, the whole idea was to start at the root of the problem, which we found to be the educational piece. Like people don't know what they don't know, they don't understand and aren't taught things like insurance and tax and student loan repayment and budgeting and all these things. So our first product in market was really a product designed for schools and to help students as they transitioned into the real world understand all these different concepts. So it was essentially a more like um active learning type of a platform, 36 modules, three hours, animated content that basically took you through kind of the capstone curriculum of the stuff you should have learned in school. Right. So as you launched, um, schools could be like, yeah, we did teach you about renders and things and how to how debt works and things like that. What was interesting though is this was right around COVID time, um, the beginning of COVID when we started this, uh, is that all of a sudden people weren't really transitioning into the real world so much, so to speak, at that point. And so we ended up totally changing our business model from being an education-focused product that served schools and students and recent grads to more of a direct consumer application, which is what we do today, um, that really pulled the education piece, but kind of took a much more life management-oriented approach to make it like a productivity-oriented platform where you can learn about, you know, hundreds of different lessons across all these different topics. Um, we cover everything from how to set up to register to vote to understanding employer paperwork to um, you know, buying a house, mortgage, all of that sort of stuff. Um, but now what really the platform does is start to kind of automate these different parts of your life by a digital vault where you can store all of your important documents, whether that's your health insurance card or your passport or information like your frequent flyer numbers, TSA pre-check number, things like that, kind of like get organized in one place. Um, has a financial dashboard that syncs in all of your accounts. So everything from investment accounts to credit card, et cetera, uh, budgeting functionality, net worth calculator to kind of give you a clear financial picture there. Um, and then automated smart reminders across everything from um when you need to go to the dentist to when your car oil needs to get changed, kind of all of the moving pieces of adulthood in one spot. Um yeah, and our most our newest feature, which I'm really excited about, um, is called Ask Real World. And it's basically like a chat GPT, but specifically trained on your context, so to speak, like your documents, your um, you know, your dentist appointments, et cetera, to make it so that you can ask it questions, but it has the information specific to you. So it could be like Annie, you know, what's Annie's um group number for her insurance? And you instantly you could have that information, or like when does your driver's license expire? And it's like, boom, here's the date. Oh my god.
Annie S.:Everything you're mentioning, I'm like, oh my God, I should check on that. I should check on that. Right.
SPEAKER_00:Well, it's so funny because obviously all of my stuff now lives in real world. And I feel like all of these things, and I'm like, wait, do I know the answer to these questions? And I can now have it like instantly. Um, but that's been one of the incredible kind of leaps forward, frankly, in the last like 18 months to two years as we've been building this product that has allowed us to really start providing like a truly personalized experience and on our way to providing that true automation of adulthood, so to speak, where um ultimately we want to be able to book your dentist appointment for you, we want to set your oil change for you, we want to, you know, schedule these different things, we want to fill out paperwork for you, kind of take all of the stress and annoyance of um life in the modern world out.
Annie S.:And then what about finding a provider? So if a user is thinking, like, I do need health insurance, I do need a new dentist, is that accessible through the app?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we have a curated list of partners. Um, and some most of them we don't even have relationships with. It's just products we think are really good across pretty much every category. So everything from um, you know, like renter's insurance or um health insurance is a little bit tricky because you know, if you go through your employer, you don't necessarily have like options, obviously. Um, and it's also state by state. So we sort of provide light guidance there. Um, but things like if you're looking to um, you know, get a meditation app or like more nutrition-focused app or things like that, we have sort of different companies that we've looked into embedded that we can recommend as well.
Annie S.:And what about like those kind of bigger life moments in adulthood, like you're selling your home or you're getting married, or you're moving cities?
SPEAKER_00:Yes. So this is a um, and this I should say is like a feature we're rolling out right now. So it's not fully live in the app yet, but this is something I've frankly I've wanted to build since the beginning because we found that the there's always this idea of like, I want to get my life together, so just but it's never clearer um than during a life moment. Like you're getting married or you're having a baby or buying a house or something where you're like, wow, I need all my documents. I need to know like what my financial situation is. And so we started to think through how could we design essentially like a life moment package that you could for you know 30 bucks or something purchase and it would say, okay, you're getting married. Here's all of like the financial stuff you need to think through, the legal stuff you need to think through, the tax, like et cetera, changing your name, if you're doing that, like all of those kind of annoying parts of the life moment versus the wedding registry and planning your fun day. Um, and so that's been really exciting to build because we've identified about 15 of those life moments. And it's everything from graduating from high school, getting married, um uh buying a house, um, death of a family member, you know, all of these different things where um selling a car, buying a car, et cetera, where there's just this kind of inflection point where you need to have some guidance. And typically you haven't done that thing before. And so it's a kind of streamlined way to pull that together. So the way that that works is we essentially, if you're a real world member, you have access to all the life moments, or you will have access to all the life moments, but you can also just purchase one off so you don't have to become a full member to um to do them. And it asks you a couple of questions. So figuring out like when are you moving or when are you getting married, um, you know, things like that, and builds you essentially a personalized checklist with all the documents you need, the educational resources, recommended providers, um, you know, find budgetary questions, kind of all the different things in one place.
Annie S.:That's really cool. And so when you're thinking about like what's next for the app, and you know, you're thinking about functionality or content, is that being driven by you and your team, or is it interactive what you're hearing from people using the app of what they're looking for next? Because obviously all of these things evolve as well.
SPEAKER_00:A hundred percent. Um, it's always like a um, it's always push and pull. Okay. So it's always us coming up with things and sort of introducing them and seeing what the feedback is. Um, but user testing, whether you're like a 10-week old company or a 10-year-old, 10-year-old company, is like the most important thing you can do just to keep understanding what your customer wants because as you described, the needs are evolving, but also the technology is really rapidly evolving of what we can provide. Right. A lot of what we're thinking about right now, and we're frankly, I'm personally spending a lot of time, like probably like 15 hours a week, is really understanding all the implications of the different AI technologies that are coming down the pipeline. So, or I should say, applications of AI that are coming down the pipeline that are relevant for us or that could help us provide a better consumer experience. So, to give you some examples, um, there's some lightweight stuff, like um to get your get your stuff into real world, you can upload it certainly, um, take a photo, et cetera. But we use AI to like really quickly summarize and parse that information for you. So it almost creates like a baseball card of your lease or like a baseball card of your health insurance plan. So you have all the individualized um important information summarized for you. But like that's a pretty simple thing that creates like a huge user value of not having to like sift through documents and understand these things. Um, we're most interested right now in all the agentic technology that's coming down the pipeline. So that's what I was describing before of the ability for us to like book your doctor's appointment for you or to fill out forms for you or take certain actions, even like maybe sign you up for a credit card or things that you want to kind of let the product do for you. Right. So it's a lot of interesting stuff happening there. Um, but I think for us, the the guiding principle, as I mentioned, is simplifying adulthood. So, how can we make all of these things that have a lot of friction and complexity around them just as simple as possible, not only for you to understand, but for us to help you accomplish.
Annie S.:Yeah, I love it. It's such a simple idea, but it's such a need. What about do you encounter much resistance from users about sharing all that personal information in one spot?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we have like security is our top priority, as you would, I'm sure imagine, in terms of everything from um how the product is designed to how we talk about all of the different pieces and also things that we don't ask users for to make sure that we're not getting into like HIPAA and some of the other kind of complexities there.
Annie S.:Good thing you have the law background there.
SPEAKER_00:I was about to say like people always like, oh, you have a business degree. I'm like, actually, the legal degree is worse than anything else. Um, truly. And so exactly, it's sort of like making sure that we're towing the line of making of having a product that's very comprehensive and helpful and uses people's data to improve their experience, but having like a very clear line around obviously never selling data, never kind of um, you know, being very careful when we use other third-party services that they are best in class in terms of their security, all of those types of things. We also have other secure-oriented, um, kind of like user-driven experience or user-driven functionality like biometrics, so face ID to access your um, you know, like sync uh two-factor authentication for every sign-on. So all of those sorts of things are baked in to make it pretty much like bank level security, like um encryption, all of that. Um, but the idea is if we can really help understand your holistic picture, we can provide like the super personalized guidance that um I think for certain users is worth kind of the Yeah, and I feel like there's almost a generational component to comfort with putting stuff on an app, right?
Annie S.:I feel like it's more the lived experience of younger people. Um, and it's a little harder for older people to kind of convert. But your target audience is is ideally someone who's kind of just launching into adulthood. So they're setting themselves up for this entire journey. Is that where you're seeing most of your users?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, our average user age is like 27, 28. Okay. So we have a huge population of people who are straight out of school, as you described, like the 22-year-old moving to the city, starting their first job, just sort of getting all of these kind of, we call it like the real world starter packs, so to speak. Like getting kind of that foundation in place. Um, but what we've started to see as we've moved a bit more from the purely education side into more of the life management side is that in the productivity side is that there's a lot of interest from like um, you know, late 20s, early 30s population where people are like, okay, I understand what a 401k is, but like I want to understand how it fits into my financial picture.
Annie S.:Right, they're probably starting to make more money then too, right? So all of a sudden it matters a little bit more.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. And also if you think about just the complexity of life and complexity of adulthood, and if you've had four jobs by that point, you have multiple 401ks, you have different health insurance plans you've transitioned from, you might have doctors on one plan, on another plan. There's just more to kind of manage and understand. And so I think that's also a place where we can provide um some clarity for those types of folks, where it's not just teaching you, like, here's what you know, a copay is, but actually like helping you understand your situation.
Annie S.:I feel like, and I'd be curious to know, you know, what your opinion on is on this, but it feels to me like it's really almost been in the past six months where there's sort of this groundswell of individuals understanding how AI can actually be a tool for them in their personal life. And it's sort of coming out of the headlines of this big concept to, oh wow, like I can, you know, sit at my desk at work and have AI help me with my to-do list. Um, and so all of a sudden, what you're talking about and in sort of helping you be more efficient in in all these things feels like much more palatable to me under the like AI umbrella. Are you finding that too? Just more acceptance and understanding of AI being a real positive in people's lives.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, absolutely. I think, I mean, I think for our users, certainly. Like they are the productivity, and I should say about 70% of our users are women, actually.
Annie S.:Which is I was gonna ask about that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, um, which we can definitely get into. And so it's almost like the productivity girly who's like, I want to have my life together, I want to have everything in one place, I want to like be as efficient as possible with my time, use the technology. I think our user really understands the benefit of you know, AI, whether you call it AI or whether you call it automation, whatever it is, just streamlining your life, making things simpler. So I absolutely think that's the case. I think at the same time, as you know, I alluded to, I'm spending a lot of time just personally spending um understanding the spaces, there's a lot of um apprehension, I think, as well for the consumer of not only, you know, how this affect like my profession or my job and things like that, but um, you see even now on Instagram, TikTok, just the ability of these completely generated images, videos to look very, very real and headlines that are totally fake coming out. I mean, it there's just a lot to sift through in terms of the trust element. Um, so I think one of the things we've spent a lot of time doing for real world as a product is just trying to build trust and like make it feel like a um, we're on your side, we are humans, we use AI, but we are humans who are, you know, designed to help make your life easier, so to speak. So I think from the consumer branding perspective, right now it's still very much a balance between the benefits of AI, but also being sort of um kind of clear that there's still a human in the loop.
Annie S.:No, that's really well said. Um, so I do want to get back to the statistic about you know, having so many women as users. And I'm actually just curious about your experience and what you think about is there a gender gap in understanding all of these concepts and being taught these concepts? We've spent a lot of time here at CLOS focused on financial literacy and young people and you know taking a hard look at a lot of the statistics on, you know, when girls start to drop off from understanding some of these concepts, you know, it starts with math, but it, you know, goes on, as we know, into, you know, all sorts of STEM and STEAM areas and and certainly becomes um a big gap in financial literacy in general. What do you think? Is that something that you've encountered?
SPEAKER_00:I think in past generations, absolutely. I mean, you can look at the statistics speak for themselves, even just um the way that the way that typically, you know, the man would manage the the finances, the woman would manage the home, et cetera, obviously back in the past. But I think what's exciting about this generation is that that is starting to balance a bit more. Like there's so many products, there's so much, there's so much narrative around financial literacy specifically for girls. Um, there's so many products specifically designed for girls that I think there's been such a swell, like a groundswell movement there that I think it's starting to rebalance. But I mean, I would say too, just across the board, there's still a huge lack of education around all of the things that we're talking about right now. Um, and there's also some of the platforms we talked about, like Instagram, TikTok, there's a lot of like misinformation about some of these things where sometimes, you know, young people are learning about these topics through people who are not qualified to teach them, frankly. Um, and so that's always something that we're sort of thinking through as well. But you know, one thing sort of relevant to this conversation that we've looked deeply into in the past is this idea of kind of how adulthood has changed over the last half century, so to speak, of when when people experienced a lot of these different life moments, which caused kind of a moment. To learn about finances or learn about insurance. There's a lot of academic work about emerging adulthood, which is this idea that in current, you know, modern culture, there's this kind of gap for people in their late 20s, so to speak, where they haven't hit a lot of the traditional markers of adulthood that previous generations had by that age.
Annie S.:Yeah, it's interesting.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, things like getting married, buying a house, having kids, a lot of these things are prolonged or delayed or just don't happen for a lot of folks in this generation. And so a lot of the moments where you think, okay, I'm gonna learn about how mortgage works, or I'm gonna, you know, set up a joint account with my spouse and understand that concept and things like that just don't happen. And so you have this kind of um don't happen until later. So you have this kind of gap of people kind of emerging adults, so to speak, in this um in the nomenclature, but it leads to this kind of consternation around like not having a lot of that foundation laid early on in your life. Whereas, you know, my parents certainly, you know, other people and in that age, they did these things a lot earlier. And so they had kind of that experience a bit earlier. So that's been something we've thought about too, is just are there other factors outside of gender that are causing kind of this lack of education or lack of awareness of some of these concepts? And I think that one piece is definitely relevant too.
Annie S.:Yeah, I I I do remember sort of feeling that, you know, I graduated college and had this very, very expensive degree, but like I didn't know how to do my taxes or change attire or any of those types of things. So I I mean, I honestly, everything about this is just is striking a chord, as well as just the idea that we've all said it a million times, like, oh my God, if I had like a personal assistant, I'd have my shit together. And this is like almost how to have a personal assistant, right? And and the amazing things that technology can do in that regard. Um, let's back up for a second, because in addition to loving hearing about real world and and the way you're solving this problem, um, I'm just always fascinated by entrepreneurs in general. So you're sitting at Goldman Sachs, it's a great job. It's a job most people would covet. Um, you identify there's this issue, but how do you make the leap in your head from, wow, it'd be great if this existed? Um, but I imagine a job at Goldman Sachs was keeping you pretty busy at the same time. And how do you make the leap to being like, you know, I'm actually going to try to tackle this? And what does that first step look like? Because I do think that that's often the moment when people kind of freeze up and and they're like, yeah, I I think I I see this, but I don't know even know where to start.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So I think there were there were probably two things reflecting on that time in my life that ultimately made me decide to take the leap. Um, the first was as you described, like you have very little time when you work at a place like Goldman. I had the best experience there. I absolutely loved the f and um enjoyed my time there, but time was certainly tight. So I typically spent um like my Saturday and Sunday mornings, I would go to a coffee shop and I would sit down and I would just research, like basically market research, understanding is there a product that is kind of tackling this idea of like helping people navigate life. Because what I started to find when I was experiencing myself was like there were tons of singularly focused verticalized products and solutions that would help with one aspect. So you had like the lemonade renters insurances, or like Wealthfront or Betterment, or like Oscar Medical or Health Insurance or Zoc Doc that was helping you book a doctor's claim that there and there were so many tools, but they were so um disaggregated, there wasn't like one, there wasn't like a single point of entry that just said, hey, you're 22 or you're 25 or 26. Like, here's the stuff you should be doing, here's how to do it, etc. And so I just spent a lot of time almost de-risking it in my mind of understanding, okay, what's already out there, like has it been successful? Why is is there a white space? And there clearly was a white space, why is there white space, etc.? So I think that was kind of like part one. It's just, am I gonna go build something that 10 other people have already built? And like it doesn't make sense to kind of spend the time. But I think the second and more important thing was if I got this right and if we built like the product and the company that this vision entails, like would the impact be significant? And undoubtedly, what it came back to continuously was like, I see this everywhere. Like people do not have their lives together. They are not, you know, signing up for their 401k, as you said, like the day that they start work, they're not figuring out understanding their health insurance. I I interviewed or I, you know, mock interviewed, so to speak, like dozens of people about which health insurance they plan they chose at Goldman. There were three plans. Almost every single person chose the middle one. And I was like, why? You know, and they're like, Well, I just chose the middle one. Like I didn't know, I didn't want to pay. I thought the least, the least expensive one wouldn't have the best coverage. I didn't think I needed the highest one, so I just chose the middle. But no one could tell me anything about like their co-pay, their co-insurance. Like, what's your premium? Like any of these things. What doctors are covered? Is it a PPO, EPO, etc.? And so just one of those things where I was like, these are really smart people who just don't either pay attention or care about these things or have the knowledge around them. So that second piece of like, if we got the solution right, wouldn't real lives be impacted? Answer was undoubtedly yes, people would be wealthier, they'd be healthier, like we'd be able to help people um, you know, in their actual lives navigate some of these questions. And so it was really that piece that made me say, like, okay, there's not a current solution. If we built the right solution, like this could be really big that was worth taking the jump. Um, and then at that point, then you're just kind of in it.
Annie S.:Yeah, you kind of just gotta go for it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
Annie S.:And you don't have a tech background.
SPEAKER_00:No, I now I built, yeah. Now you do.
Annie S.:Now you do. Now I do.
SPEAKER_00:But but yeah, and it's such an interesting, it's actually a great point. So the hardest thing in the beginning was I was like a lawyer. Like I wasn't a and you know, like a um, you know, finance person. I wasn't a product designer, I wasn't an engineer, I wasn't a VC, like a venture capitalist. I didn't know that world at all. And so the first six months of building this company, I had to kind of figure out that landscape. Like I didn't have computer science or CS buddies that I could reach out to and be like, help me spin up this thing, or you know, which investors would be interested in this. Like I just had to kind of figure all of that out. But fast forward, now one have sort of um absorbed through osmosis a lot of that, but also built um like product design technical capabilities at this point, which has been really helpful in kind of translating vision to reality. But right now is the best time in my mind ever to be an entrepreneur because you actually don't have to be technical to build because of all these AI tools. There's so many products that can take just through natural language your idea and make it a website, make it an app, make it like build so many of these things, prototype, a test, et cetera, that you can use to then attract people to build with you, attract people to invest in you and all of that. Um, so I wish I was starting the business today because it would have saved a lot of time and energy and money to um get to this point.
Annie S.:Yeah, well, I think that you've kind of highlighted two things that we hear repeatedly from entrepreneurs that we have on the podcast that I think are such important lessons. One being that you don't necessarily have to have it all figured out at the start because there's gonna be a lot of figuring it out on the way. Um, but also you spoke to it earlier that you've pivoted a number of times. So you start with an original idea, but you're adjusting all the time as you figure out what's working. Um, and I think that's a really big part of entrepreneurship and not being scared of that, number one, and also um not being too wedded to an original vision of something, but being able to adapt to how it's going on the fly, really.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. And it's funny, I I've heard so many different statistics about this, but I think the um the most recent one I heard was that the average successful entrepreneur pivots their business 35 times.
Annie S.:Wow.
SPEAKER_00:And it might be, it might be the marketing plan, it might be, you know, B2B versus B2C, it might be the product, it might be the consumer base or enterprise they're going after. But if you no one very infrequently I should say, someone shows up with the perfect idea day one. Because the reality is at that point you're building for yourself, you're not building for your market. Yeah. And if you actually get into the market and talk to people and understand what their needs are and what solutions they're using, you're not going to better understand what solution you can build for them. So I think one of the things that um so I look to like other founder friends that everybody you you have to have to be an entrepreneur is like resilience. Like you have to be willing to fail constantly because you will fail constantly. And use that as like the wind beneath your wings as opposed to something like gets you down and sort of has propels you towards the ultimate solution.
Annie S.:No, that's so well said. I I am a big believer in that. And I've found in my own business that as cliche as it sounds, the mistakes are so valuable. And they're so valuable because they number one teach you not to fear them, right? You know, when you make your first big mistake, you're like, oh my God. Um, and then you're like, okay, you know, we put one foot in front of the other, we figured it out, and that becomes like valuable in itself, just knowing you can do that. Um, but then it just informs every decision. Like it is cliche, but it's so, so valuable to have messed up.
SPEAKER_00:Completely. Um, no, I mean, all of the mistakes are the lessons. Like those are the things that make you more valuable as an entrepreneur, as a leader, as whatever is like that's the experience that then leads to the better decision making down the line, in my um experience.
Annie S.:So um let me ask you this. We've obviously all heard that it's very difficult for female founders to get funding and support. Was that your experience? And and how did you navigate that?
SPEAKER_00:I think it is difficult for anyone to get funding. I'll start with that as a baseline. Uh it is uh, if you know, I'm sure you've talked to so many entrepreneurs about this, but you get rejected constantly in the investment process. Um, unless you are like an ex-open AI, you know, researcher who's building the X AI solution, like that is positioned perfectly for capital. It is, particularly if you're someone who comes with a non-technical background, who isn't someone who's worked at a big tech company or has enroads into any of the VCs, et cetera. Um, it's it's hard to get funding. And it frankly, it should be hard to get funding. To raise millions of dollars from people on an idea, you shouldn't have to really, you know, kick the tires and understand like what is happening with the business, how are you thinking about it? Are you is their founder market fit? You know, all of that. But to your point, the statistics don't lie, don't lie. It's like 2% of women 2% of venture capital, I think, go towards women-led businesses, which I can tell you, I know lots of founders, and there are a lot more than 2% of them are female founders, which great ideas. So it's definitely challenging. Um, my experience, we were really lucky to have amazing investors. We have people who've invested um multiple times through us through different stages. They've just been, you know, big believers in the vision and the mission. But it was kind of hard to find a lot of those people, to be honest. And my experience was kind of um a little bit weird in the sense where we kicked off our fundraise, like basically the week that COVID began. Um from being like, I have all these meetings scheduled with people and I'm flying to San Francisco and flying these places to sitting at my kitchen table and just Zoom meeting after Zoom meeting after Zoom meeting without really the ability to build like the relationships that you would hope for in investors. And so um one of the challenges that we found specifically was we're basically creating a new category. Like we don't have a meaningful competitor. And so that meant that we didn't necessarily fit into any thesis, specific thesis that investors had around fintech vertical or insure tech vertical or education, because we were kind of a mix of all of these different things. And so it really took kind of almost explaining into the future like here's how this product will emerge and how this space will evolve where we can be a sort of poised to lead. We ultimately found investors who uh believed in that and sort of helped us grow there. Um, but it was a lot of work, a lot of rejections, a lot of meetings, a lot of just kind of hustle, frankly, to get to that point.
Annie S.:Yeah. I I I the 2% statistic is just so startling. It's it's not close. It's not just less than it's 2%.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and it hasn't changed since I've been building.
Annie S.:There's some really, really stubborn statistics that just don't move, which is a little discouraging. Although I've got to imagine that investors who invest in someone like you and have that experience, it sort of creates muscle memory to to maybe not have a gender lens on on making those decisions. Um what is your hope for the app and the company? Is this your baby and you you want to stick with it forever? Is it something that you see an exit on at some point? What how do you think about that?
SPEAKER_00:So we're thinking big. I would just leave it at that. And then for that, I would say not just big in terms of exit, but big in terms of impact. And what's exciting about that is that as we've discussed, you know, for the last bit, this idea has so many different applications across the entire life cycle of someone's life. And so it's not just something where there's a very specific point solution helping you, you know, a very specific person at a very specific time, which a lot of great businesses are built that way. But if we do our job right, we will have the ability to build a lifelong relationship with our members that helps us help us build a very big and meaningful company. Um, and I think that plus, you know, all of the excitement around AI and all of the capabilities that that will allow us to again streamline and sort of build solutions for people, um, hopefully we'll just make that impact bigger and also like more exciting and better for the user in terms of their experience. So definitely um thinking big here, um, I see it as like a life's work kind of mentality rather than like a, you know, build this widget and sell this widget kind of a thing. Yeah. Um, and it's something that like is very energizing. Get up every day, I see the problem every day, I see the solution, how it can be helpful. And so it's been um it's been exciting for us to build.
Annie S.:Did it take you a while to find your voice as a leader of a company?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, um, I mean, definitely. It's it's interesting because when you're starting, just reflecting on this, when you're starting something in the beginning, you have the kernel of the idea, but you don't really have any traction yet. Like you haven't really proved it yet. So you kind of have to like talk about and sort of have the vision and um kind of attune that vision to make sense to someone who doesn't see the future necessarily the way that you see it and sort of explain how if this goes right, this is what happens. Um, but once some of that does start to go right and things do start to happen, I think you get a lot more confidence as a leader, is like this is working, and here's how it's gonna keep working, and we can keep um keep going. I think the second thing is we've already discussed is just the experience of failure kind of makes you fearless around some of this stuff. Okay, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. And then I'll just keep going and we'll keep building it and it'll be fine. Yeah, there's very few mistakes you can't come back from. Um just kind of give some confidence there too.
Annie S.:Um, that's amazing. And I do think which you have in spades, um, when you're passionate about something, it's it's a lot easier to find your voice and advocate for the direction you want it to go. Um, let me ask you this. So since you started this app, you've since had two children and you have young children. You how has navigating being a working mom been?
SPEAKER_00:Um, I have, let's see, I have a two and a half year old and a um three-month-old actually.
Annie S.:So we call that the weeds. You are in the weeds.
SPEAKER_00:Very much in the weeds. Um, and certainly, you know, building while pregnant and all that stuff is its own sort of journey. Um I think one, again, back to investors and team, have like amazing team, amazing investors who I think realize that if you're going to build, if you're a woman and you're going to build a big business and you want to have a family, like those things are gonna all happen because you can't you can't go on a 10-year-long journey as a you know 28-year-old and not decide to have some of those life moments yourself. Um so that's that's kind of been one of the things I've been most um appreciative of, I guess, of the people I've surrounded myself with is that they've been very encouraging throughout each of these different life stages, which unfortunately not all female founders I know have had that experience. Um, but I think the second thing is just like getting super um efficient with time has kept high, and I'm sure for you too, like it's just the most important thing, um, which is probably also fueling why we're trying to build this product that will help working moms as well, like into their lives and manage all these different things. Totally. But I think it's also just giving me a like deep appreciation of each of these life stages and life moments that we're building towards, of understanding, frankly, the complexity around them, understanding all the doctor's appointments and all of the things you have to deal with and juggle and make it even more meaningful.
Annie S.:Yeah, I mean, it's definitely in a lot of ways, sort of a one-way trade. The older you get, the more things that you're adding on to that pile of what you need to keep track of and manage, let alone once you have children. Um, did you feel comfortable taking a maternity leave?
SPEAKER_00:Uh yes, I did the first time um for and I had like a great sort of blocked period of time, which really set me up for success the second time as well. Um, and I think it comes back to like if you have good people working with you and everyone's on the same page and you set up the right systems, it can work well. But the thing about starting your own company is like it's always it's also your child. Totally. It's kind of always in the back of your mind, and you're like, all right, let's use two children, but you also have this other child that's kind of always on the present.
Annie S.:I remember that feeling, like when I had maternity leave and I I ended up taking very short ones, which I I look back on and I'm like, all right, it would have been fine if I had taken longer. But I feel the same. You're so like connected to what you're building, it's very hard to let go. And I would be like, Oh, well, like two weeks into my maternity leave, there's that one call, and but I've been really like wanting to be a part of that, you know. It's very hard to like regulate yourself, even when you're supported.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, absolutely. It's so true. Um, and so it's been uh it's definitely been a great journey though. And I will say too, I think it also makes me a bit more grounded in terms of just knowing like there is more than just you know, work every single day, like there is a lot of that, like human, just like family time and all of that that's really special. And so helped give a little bit more balance to um a job, frankly, that it's tough as a founder to have any kind of like work-life balance. Yes. That's been an aspect too.
Annie S.:Yes, it's always there's always something to do. There's always something that could use your attention. Always. Yeah, I do think we have to get better about sort of drawing those lines for ourselves more than we have to have other people draw them.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I think the other thing too about just maternity leave generally and kind of supporting people and families is you have to set the example for your team too. And you want to make sure you're building, building a culture where people feel like they can go through each life stage and they can be part of the company and also be doing those things too. So I feel like it's important in that lens as well.
Annie S.:Yeah. Well, um, I think that's a great place to leave it. I'm so excited that you were able to come on and share all of this. I think for anyone who didn't know about Real World before, I'm sure you're going to have a lot of new subscribers. Um, like I said, I can just think of a lot of close friends and family who are going to be excited to know this exists and something that they can use in their daily lives. Um, but we'll have to have you back at some point for an update because I think there's big things ahead for you in this app. Um, and I think you're a great, great role model for other women thinking about doing something entrepreneurial in this space. So very, very grateful for you sharing your story with us and our listeners.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, thanks, Dan. It's so kind. Well, so appreciated and so happy to be able to share the story. It's been an amazing journey, and I'm excited for what's next.
Annie S.:Excellent. Thank you.