Where I Left Off

Now You Owe Me with Author Aliah Wright

• Kristen Bahls • Season 2 • Episode 31

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Thanks to author Aliah Wright for joining me to talk about her fiction debut thriller, Now You Owe Me. We talk about the book, all things Corinthia, Ben, Amanda, and Fiona, and the writing process. We cover everything from publishing to tips on building suspense throughout the book.

Keep up with Aliah:

Trigger Warnings for Now You Owe Me:

  • Sexual assault
  • Physical abuse
  • Verbal abuse
  • Neglect
  • Graphic depictions of death
  • Death of animals
  • Incestual ideations (it's discussed, but not acted upon)


Inspiration for the sentence finishing game from @booksbyjoanna.

For links to the books discussed in this episode, click the link here to take you to the Google Doc to view the list.

For episode feedback, future reading and author recommendations, you can text the podcast by clicking the "Send us a message button" above.

For more, follow along on Instagram @whereileftoffpod.

Kristen Bahls:

Welcome back. I'm Kristen Bahls and you're listening to when I Left Off a bookish podcast and in this episode we are talking about a thriller and, like all thrillers, it contains sensitive topics, so please see the show notes for trigger warnings. But today I'm joined by author Aliah Wright and her debut novel, which we were talking about today. Now you Owe Me. Thank you so much for joining me.

Aliah Wright:

Thank you so much for having me. It's my pleasure.

Kristen Bahls:

Oh, yay, I cannot wait to talk about your book. But before we get into it, I would love to know what are you currently reading right now?

Aliah Wright:

So I'm one of those people who can read multiple books at the same time, so I just pick up a book whenever I'm in a different room or outside on my deck which is usually and so what usually happens is I become engrossed with one, and then, when that happens, I ignore the others until I finish the one that I'm working on. So right now, I'm really intrigued with Apprentice to the Villain.

Kristen Bahls:

Oh, yep, the second one.

Aliah Wright:

And so, and I was supposed to go to a book reading where she was signing copies in Coatesville, PA shout out to Looker Books but I missed it, and so the book owner of the store, Dana Looker, held a copy of it for me and she had it signed. So I was really excited to get a signed copy of her book. But I'm also reading like, so if I'm out on my deck I'm reading. Ep2 was on.

Aliah Wright:

He wrote a book. It's called A Professional Lola. It's a funny book of short stories that look at Filipino American culture, and so the story is about a bunch of different. It's a bunch of different short stories, but the first story is about this family who hires a professional grandmother or Lola for a little boy's birthday party, and the people in this story, the woman who's the grandmother she's an actress that plays their dead grandmother and it's something that's common in Filipino culture and I didn't know that until I started reading this book. But it's something that's common in Filipino culture and I didn't know that until I started reading this book, but it's Me either. It's really funny and I'm nearly done with Danzi Sena's Color Television and I also finished reading her husband Percival Everett's novel James over the weekend, and that was really nice. I finished it on audio book, and so that's where I am with my reading.

Kristen Bahls:

Nice. It sounds like you read a lot of different genres.

Aliah Wright:

I do. I have a lot of. My interests are varied and the funny thing is I've written this thriller which some people are calling a horror novel, but my favorite genre is romance.

Kristen Bahls:

I love romance as well.

Aliah Wright:

I love romance, and so one day maybe, I'll write a romance novel. I have one like brewing inside me that I wanted to get out, but this story took me by surprise. So, and it was. I had a blast writing it.

Kristen Bahls:

It was. It was a blast to read too. Yeah, I could see how some people could possibly classify it as horror, but it's just a really intense, intense thriller.

Aliah Wright:

Yeah, yeah.

Kristen Bahls:

And what can you tell us about your current work in progress?

Aliah Wright:

We were talking about this a little bit, but what can readers kind of expect next? So readers can certainly expect book two, and then Now you Own Me Universe and a book three. You know, depending on how things go, I may write a prequel. I'm also outlining what I hope will be an epic based on a battle in the Old Testament of the Bible. So the other thing is, I just wrapped up our certificate in digital marketing strategy from Harvard Business School Online. So that was intense. Yeah, I'm sure, and I did that right before my launch. But right now I'm more focused on appearances, like doing podcasts and doing book signings. So I've been crisscrossing the country all year doing book signings at bookstores and book festivals.

Kristen Bahls:

How cool is that getting to meet readers in person.

Aliah Wright:

It's really, it's really cool. The very first person I met was at the American Booksellers Association Conference. The very first person I met who read the book, and she was. She sat right next to me and she was like I was so excited to read your book and I was on the plane and when I got to the first twist I screamed out holy and she cursed and she said everybody turned and stared at her and I was like why? And I said did you see the twist coming? And she was like no, not at all. And I was like yes, so, and it's nice to meet people who've read the book and then one reviewer, library Journal, in fact, compared it to Karen Slaughter, Gillian Flynn and Tana French and that was just so exciting to me.

Aliah Wright:

I'm a big Gillian Flynn fan, so to have people compare it to that was just amazing. So I was at another book sellers conference a couple of months ago and that was in Virginia and there were just all these people booksellers crowding around me saying how much they you know there was like a lot of excitement and buzz about the book at the conference. That I didn't even know about and it was. It was nice to talk to people who were excited about reading the book and going over the different things that they discovered and what they learned about not just the process, but what they learned from the story too.

Kristen Bahls:

Oh, that was so cool that you got the experience and got the chance to do that. And what states are you doing? Book signings coming up.

Aliah Wright:

So right now I have one in Virginia at the Fall for the Book Festival. It's this huge book festival in Northern Virginia. It's one of my favorites because I still live down there. And then I have another speaking engagement that I need to confirm in Jersey next weekend. And then I'm going back to Virginia for a book signing at Busboys and Poets in Shirlington and I wrote some of Now you Own Me in one of their establishments. It's like a cafe slash restaurant. They do book signings, they do spoken word poetry. It's a really cool venue. Oh, that's cool, yeah, so I'm going back there. It's one of my favorite spaces. And I just got back from California over the weekend where I was a gold table host for my publisher's 30th anniversary benefit. That was nice, and I did a signing while I was there at Octavia's Bookshelf in Pasadena. So that was nice. So, and the bookstores have been very welcoming, which is nice.

Kristen Bahls:

Oh, that's good. Yeah, every bookstore event I've been to it's always really a really fun atmosphere and it's nice to get to meet, you know other readers and talk to the author and it's just a really cool experience, yeah, and I, so.

Aliah Wright:

My launch was at Politics and Prose in Washington DC, and it's like all these people have read at this place I mean the Obamas, the Clintons, Salman Rushdie, JK Rowling, and so there were quite a few other authors there that I did not know was going to be there, and that was sort of really thrilling just to meet other authors who know what it's like to go through this process and just, you know, to chat with them and talk to them and learn from their experience, because I'm a debut author, so this is really nice.

Kristen Bahls:

I know it's awesome getting to talk to other authors and see them too, and it's nice when they all go to each other's events. There are a couple, also in Nashville, that they'll all go to everyone else's event. So you know you go there for one author and you might find a couple more that you know that you can chat with too. I was going to say thank you so much for writing a second book. You know, with several thrillers, they'll leave you on a cliffhanger and that's just it. And so I thought with this one I was like no, I'm never going to know what happens. Oh no, but now we get. We actually get to learn.

Aliah Wright:

It becomes more of like a cat and mouse thriller because there's a lot of stuff that gets resolved, even more of like a cat and mouse thriller because there's a lot of stuff that gets resolved even within the first chapter of the sequel. So I'm like eager for people to see it. And I had a. I had a lot of fun writing the second book and then just now that I'm putting the finishing touches on it, I'm really excited, but it'll be a while before it's done because I have to go back and just massage everything, make sure everything makes sense, but it's, I don't. People who like Now you Own Me will love the sequel?

Kristen Bahls:

Good to know, because, yeah, I've read a couple thrillers lately that have just left me hanging and there's nothing, it's just that's it.

Aliah Wright:

And it doesn't wrap you up, yeah, and you're like no, I just want to know, and I think that that speaks to people's desire and want for cliffhangers. Um, desire and want for cliffhangers, I mean for me, I love a good cliffhanger and I tried to do that. I think that's one of the reasons why people are telling me that now you owe me. So fast-paced is because there's like many cliffhangers within the book as you're reading and you can't put it down. You're like what happens next, and so I wanted to make sure that I continued to pique the curiosity of the reader as I was writing it and then, towards towards the end, you know, people were like I really wanted to see more. I'm like don't worry, I got you.

Kristen Bahls:

Good to know. Good to know, yeah, cause there there are a lot of parts where you're like, okay, this is important. I can tell that this is going to come back later, but I'm going to put it to the side of my brain for a second while I focus on what's happening with this thing and then, and then it all does come back, of course, at the end. So, if you can tell me a little bit more about your journey to becoming an author you have a really interesting background, you think so? Yeah, I do.

Aliah Wright:

So I've always wanted to write a book, even while I worked at newspapers and wire services, covering cops, courts, politics and entertainment. Now you Own Me is my first novel, but I've written a textbook on social media strategy and engagement and that was a bestseller for the publisher. That's been my journey so far. You know, with this process and when you're a journalist, it's a completely different animal in terms of like how you approach.

Kristen Bahls:

AP style and just that formulaic yeah.

Aliah Wright:

It's yeah Writing. Um yeah, it's art. Are you a journalist by any chance?

Kristen Bahls:

Uh, broadcast is my undergrad, so Okay.

Aliah Wright:

So you, you understand the process because it's like you know and I have. I've told people before that writing a book is different from writing a newspaper article, it's different from writing for television, it's different from writing for radio, and I've done all of this. I used to work for the Associated Press and we had to take all of our stories and then just boil them down for broadcast.

Aliah Wright:

And um it's very hard but you get used to it. Because our deadlines were so tight, I had to literally learn how to write a novel, and for that I went to writer's workshops, and so you know, and I got a writing coach to just learn the basics of how to do that. Because writing a book is hard, it's not easy, and you know, trying to make sure that everything slots into place is hard too, and I've spoken to authors who've told me that with their whether it's a debut novel or something that they've just published some of them have spent 10 years writing a book. I'm fortunate that it didn't take me that long.

Kristen Bahls:

True, I'm sure that all of that would help in the classes and everything, cause, yeah, it's just a totally different mindset shift.

Aliah Wright:

Right, and then just seeing how other people do it too, it's, it's very, it can be very inspiring.

Kristen Bahls:

I agree, author groups are the best way to grow and talk to others, for sure. Yeah, so what inspired the premise of Now you Owe Me, and how did this idea kind of evolve as you wrote it? And even as you're writing the second book. How is it still?

Aliah Wright:

evolving. Now you Owe Me grew out of my frustration of seeing so many missing young women lose their lives at the hands of kidnappers, and so I sat down to write the story several years ago, before the pandemic, and it was initially a short story that centered on Fiona and how she escapes. When I decided to expand the book into a novel, the twins and Amanda were born and I formulated like how that would work out. So that's how I came up with the premise, and I'm coming up with different premises for different stories that are related to this universe.

Kristen Bahls:

Okay, so we get to stay in the universe for even longer. Okay, good to know. Yeah, okay, and what were some of the central themes that you were really kind of most interested in exploring through this thriller?

Aliah Wright:

So, when it comes to the central themes, I wanted to look at how someone becomes a serial killer Like. What does that evolution look like? That's why we join the twins when they're seven and witness their story through their 20s. People may think that the social commentary that's in the book is the point, but it's not. It's just there because of who I am as a person and the things I see going around me, and I felt that that should be pointed out from my character's perspectives, such as the plight of missing women, particularly missing white women's syndrome, and how that differs from when women of color go missing. Also, how the police treat these cases differently. It touches on that, but that's not the main thrust of the book, so I wanted to explore those themes when I was writing it.

Kristen Bahls:

And did you pull from a lot of your experience and some of the stories that you had written as a journalist? Some, yes. So Because that's up close and personal, I mean really up close, yeah.

Aliah Wright:

It is. It is because I used to be a police reporter and a court reporter and I've covered some really pretty big cases. I used to work for the Associated Press in Pennsylvania and I covered politics and I also cover crime and I covered politics and I also covered crime and I covered courts and I covered crime at various stages in my career as a journalist. So for me, I also I can vividly remember walking into a courtroom in Philadelphia during a mob trial and being scared yeah, because I worked my way through college at both the Philadelphia Daily News and the Inquirer and I can vividly remember some of the mob reporters and they had mob reporters on staff getting death threats, and so for me to walk into the courtroom and have every head turned to look at me because I'm the new person walking in the courtroom and I'm sitting next to the associated press reporter who was covering the trial and I had to take over for her all my first day on the job. That was so intimidating it was and it was scary because you're sitting in this room with these very well-known gangsters. And so I drew a lot from those experiences and then the book has a lot of.

Aliah Wright:

I did a lot of research now and I tell people that research can be the basis for what you write, but of course you're writing fiction, so you can expand on what you know and what you learn to create that story. But it's not like it's the gospel, I'm not like creating. There's a basis in fact, but it's not factual, so because it's fiction. So you know, for me the research helped a lot when I was trying to determine, like, what's wrong with these kids and so you know what are the things that impact their environment to make them become the way they are, and then their thought processes and their mental health. So it's like all these things combined to make a craft, a portrait of these characters. Does that make?

Kristen Bahls:

sense, yes, and especially with the twins it almost kind of felt like they had no choice because they were pushed into this a little bit by their background. At a certain point it seemed like they were just kind of like heading on this trajectory, and it's just the way that I've had people talk about the nature versus nurture debate.

Aliah Wright:

You know, and that's something I never even thought about that when I was writing it. It was just, you know, okay, this is how I'm going to frame how, why they behave the way that they do, and then I'm going to take a little bit of license with fiction and then just run with it, and so that's how I came up with the, with that aspect.

Kristen Bahls:

And is it going to play even more in the second book as well?

Aliah Wright:

Oh yeah. So we will see more of Corinthian then, Okay, and I think that you know the readers will be. You know it's, it's one of those things and we'll talk about that too, because sometimes you have, you know, a love-hate relationship with your characters, and I certainly had that too.

Kristen Bahls:

I'm sure, and you're inside their brain for an extended period of time. So that's why.

Aliah Wright:

Right.

Kristen Bahls:

So were there any twists or turns in the story that surprised you as you were writing? Because there are several twists.

Aliah Wright:

Yes, so they came like while I was writing the last section of the novel. So I pretty much knew what the first twist was gonna gonna be. And then there are some pretty big reveals, but I don't want to spoil them for your, for the readers, so I'm not, I'm not gonna go like expand on this.

Kristen Bahls:

But, yeah, the first main one was the one that I did not guess at all.

Aliah Wright:

It's sort of like it came. I know it came out of nowhere, but for me it was like just such a thrilling thing to do. But to go back through, you know, the whole book to make sure that you don't, you know, figure that out, cause I've had people tell me I was like how does she do that? I had to go back and reread and figure out and I'm like that's what I wanted you to do, you know, know. But then the other couple of twists that are in there, towards the end, um, sort of I was thinking like, well, how do I do this and what do I? Who, who is it? Like? Oh yeah, that's right. And that's when I introduced another main character and people like, oh, okay, so, but I don't want to get into that, not too much in the weeds anyway, yeah, yeah, yeah, no no, no spoilers.

Kristen Bahls:

Yeah, definitely, definitely not. But yeah, whenever that first plot just happened, I was like, wait, a minute, wait. And so I I also had to think back like, wait, how did this happen if this and this and this happened? And I was like, okay, I'm gonna wait and see how it turns out. And then obviously it was explained and I was like, okay, that's how I didn't catch it. So, yeah, it was definitely embedded in there the whole time. And, okay, so did you come up with? You said that you kind of had the first plot twist in mind. Did you think of that like from the beginning, whenever you were doing the short stories, or was it like, how did you kind of go about it?

Aliah Wright:

So once I started plotting the novel out, I thought about the first twist was always going to happen. I always knew that. I always knew that and I had to keep that in mind as I was formulating these characters. And then, as the story unfolded as I was writing, the others sort of came as I was writing. They were a lot of fun to construct, no lie.

Kristen Bahls:

Oh yeah, I'm sure they were. They were really fun to read. So I wanted to play a little short game and, basically, if you will finish my sentence with something, it could be something that was in the book or maybe something that you've discovered about the characters. Um, it could be something that was in the book or maybe something that you've discovered about the characters since.

Aliah Wright:

Okay, so my first one is Carinthia would never. Carinthia would never let anything hurt Ben and, by extension, because anything that hurts Ben she's going to actually have to suffer the consequences, because they're together as brother and sister. So she doesn't want anything to hurt him or herself, but she would never let anything hurt Ben. They're both protective of each other.

Aliah Wright:

And Ben or Benji, always, he always does what his sister tells him to do, and he's been doing that since he was a little kid. He always deferred to her. She's older than him by a minute, but even when they were little she played up the big sister thing. So he always does what she tells him to do.

Kristen Bahls:

Amanda should.

Aliah Wright:

Amanda should definitely look more before she leaps and think long and hard about her consequences.

Kristen Bahls:

Agreed, and then Fiona can't.

Aliah Wright:

Fiona can't forgive herself for what happens to Amanda at the end of the book and readers will see more of the consequences of that in book two, which I'm still working on. But yeah, she has a lot of and you've read the book so you know what happens. But she harbors a lot of guilt in terms of what happens to Amanda. That becomes more palpable for her and you can see the anguish that she experiences later on in the book, even though it's funny, because Fiona doesn't have a whole lot of like. She's not really like a lot of stuff happens to her, but she's sort of like a almost like a peripheral character.

Aliah Wright:

Yeah, for me, to me, she, to me she reminds me of norm's wife and cheers. That is true when they're always talking about his wife off the screen and he's like oh, you know, she's, she's kind of like that, but not quite okay, good to know, because I I was also going to ask about that, because, yeah, she, I was wondering how she felt about everything you know, based on some of her reactions and I can't imagine being put in a situation like that and not you would not come out of that unscathed, no matter what, with all the trauma.

Aliah Wright:

She survives it, you know, but it not without like scars.

Kristen Bahls:

And who who's the most challenging character to write. I don't know that. I have a guess there were several that I'm sure were hard.

Aliah Wright:

Um, carinthia. Carinthia was the most challenging character right, and I think that's because I had a love-hate relationship with her and getting her tenor just right was challenging. I spent a long time contemplating her demise, more than once actually, and so she's also a central figure within this book. So, at more more than one point, I can say for a fact that I actually, you know, thought about, you know like just getting rid of her, but I was like no, I can't really do that because there are different ways that I could have done it. But I was like, you know, ben needs her, so does the story yeah, she's his puppeteer for sure.

Kristen Bahls:

Good to know, and then okay. So if the book was adapted for film, who would you choose to play? Uh, corinthia, ben amanda and fiona I.

Aliah Wright:

I actually have a whole list of people who I'd love to see in any of these roles, but, to be honest, I would be thrilled to have this book. Leap to film or television Netflix, are you listening? Yes, please, I wouldn't want that to come to fruition and have people ask me if I'm disappointed in the casting based on the conversation we're having today.

Kristen Bahls:

To be honest, there's a whole crop of newcomers who would be great in these roles.

Aliah Wright:

Some of them may still be in high school even, but I'd be willing to leave that up to the casting directors, or the casting director or the studio or whatever, because Ben and Carinthia are twins and they look so much alike that one actor could play actor or actress could play them, like you know Saoirse Ronan, or Euphoria star, hunter Schafer, um or um, in terms of like Amanda, maybe, um, asia Naomi King, who was in um how to Get Away with Murder, um, she has this steel gaze and um, this tough girl persona that I adore. And then, like I think about Chloe greats Maritz in the role of Fiona, and she has this sort of quiet, grace and vulnerability but also an internal fortitude and grit that I feel that that character embodies. And, you know, in terms of men like Alex Pettyfor or Alexander Ludwig. I mean, these are just some names that come to my mind, but, you know, at the end of the day, you know having the book made into a movie.

Aliah Wright:

And being adapted as being adapted, and I just you know, saw that I think Frida McFadden just had her book adapted into a movie. Yeah, the Housemaid, I think, is McFadden, just had her book adapted into a movie.

Kristen Bahls:

Yeah, the Housemaid, I think, is the one that's going to be. Yeah, yeah, and I have both of her books on my TBR.

Aliah Wright:

I just bought a couple of the books in the series and so I'm waiting to dive into those because you know she has some really good people who are going to be in that book, I mean in that movie, that movie adaptation of the book, so it's exciting.

Kristen Bahls:

Yeah, taking the characters that are in your head and getting to put them on screen. And yeah, with Freedive. I've read One by One and Never Lie, but I haven't read the Housemaid yet.

Aliah Wright:

The Housemaid is just great because it's like you know they pick the wrong. Talk about people picking the wrong people to mess with Common theme.

Kristen Bahls:

Yeah. But yeah, I've noticed that there are a lot of adaptations for more thrillers lately. It seemed like a while. For a while it was kind of romance heavy or YA heavy, but now it seems like there are several thrillers that are actually kind of catching, catching their adaptations and making their way.

Aliah Wright:

I agree. I couldn't agree more with that because I think, well, part of it is that there's so many more. Remember, like, back in the day, we had like ABC, cbs, nbc, yep, and then we got Fox, and then, of course, we had PBS, and then we had the regular film studios Paramount, 20th Century Fox, we had all these, you know Fox. So we had all these studios. And now there's all these streaming services, like NBC has Peacock and you have, you know, hbo Max, and now you have like YouTube TV, and I could name, I could rattle off a dozen, and all of them need good stories. So people are, and people are finding that.

Aliah Wright:

You know, thrillers are one of those things that people really come back to and I, I love horror movies. That's where my my thing is when it comes to horror movies. I'm a huge horror movie fan. We could do a whole podcast on how many horror movies I've seen. But what are some of your favorites? Some of my.

Aliah Wright:

One of my favorite horror movies is the People Under the Stairs, which Ving Rhames was in many years ago, and it was the one of the first films I'd ever saw with an african-american protagonist and he gets caught in this house because they're trying to.

Aliah Wright:

Well, he's I mean, I don't even know if you want to call him yeah, you could call him a protagonist because he gets caught in this house of horrors where these people are who are living in the walls. He's come, he goes in there to rob that you should watch. It goes in there to rob the house with this little boy of his I think it's his girlfriend's little little brother and then they get caught in the house. But the cool thing about this story is it's based on a true story, which makes it even scarier. Yeah and yeah, and so the other thing my one of my favorite horror films is the Conjuring and in that whole universe I love that movie. Um, and for me, I like films that are not. I don't like the slasher films are okay, but for me I want to read a book that's about something that's plausibly scary.

Aliah Wright:

Like, if you yeah, because you know walking down the street at night and having someone follow you is scary and it can. You know it's heart pounding because it's something that could happen and so it makes you even, it pulls you into the story more. You know, rather than just you know, a whole bunch of people like being tortured to death in a room based on some, some, some reason For me. I want to be like, I want to write something and I think people want to see something that could happen and how you survive that, yeah, or how you get, you know, revenge for it.

Kristen Bahls:

True well, now I have a book to add to your tbr. Um, it's a thriller horror and I was reading it for our book club for October and it is. It is pretty much what you're describing. It's called uh, we used to live here, by Marcus Kroehler, and, oh my gosh, it's literally this couple. They move into a house and then this family knocks on their door and they're like hey, we used to live here, can we come see inside your house? They say, okay, sure, and then all chaos ensues. So it could totally happen. Wow, right, and it seems like a somewhat common occurrence, but yeah, it is wild.

Aliah Wright:

You have to be careful. I mean, my mom used to always say don't open the door for anybody, yeah, especially not a random family. Yeah, that sounds like a really good book. I might have to put that on my TBR. I think I will put it on my TBR.

Kristen Bahls:

Yeah, it was good. It does end in a cliffhanger, though, so you'll love it, because it's a cliffhanger for sure.

Aliah Wright:

I was listening to the audio and it just stopped and I went no wait, that's the end.

Kristen Bahls:

That's where you're leaving it. So yeah, it is.

Aliah Wright:

Oh, wow.

Kristen Bahls:

It is. It's a cliffhanger, and so what is the process that you use? You're talking about it a little bit earlier, but kind of what's the process for building the tension and the pacing of the novel to ensure that readers are really staying hooked from the beginning and the end? And yours was split up into three parts, so did that also?

Aliah Wright:

kind of contribute.

Aliah Wright:

Well, part of it is starting with a strong opening or a premise that hooks the readers with a conflict that reels them in from the beginning, so establishing a predicament for the characters, for the twins it's the sense that the authorities are closing in on them, yet they still want to continue their activities despite the risk and Amanda's conflict is wanting to rescue her friend Then introducing friction among the characters and situations by varying degrees, which makes the narrative engaging, I think, and energetic. I like using short chapters to escalate that friction and increase the tension, and then writing like little mini cliffhangers between the chapters while varying the pace to keep readers on the edge of their seats. It just works like that. And this book has a ton of foreshadowing in it too, and I like that. I could sort of hide some of that in there that doesn't become apparent until the first twist is revealed. And there's other stuff I did too, but again, I don't want to give away too much of the novel.

Kristen Bahls:

Yeah, no, I agree, I agree, and I'm sure with the thriller of, of course, it almost kind of lends this way. But it sounds like you're definitely a plotter over a pantser, right? Oh yes.

Aliah Wright:

I am, and so I got into um, I was at the book signing and we were at a book signing in Pasadena at Octavia's Bookshelf. I think that's where I got into the whole plotter versus pantser discussion. I can't remember, but I am definitely a plotter, so I believe in using outlines. So for me and I talk about this on my TikTok, which is at Aliah Writes, if you're interested listeners, where I give tips on writing and I show people like behind the scenes when I'm doing various events but for me, I'm a big outliner, I've always been, and I did that with my first book, which was a textbook. But with this novel I decided to plot the whole thing out. So what I do is chapter one even if I write just two or three sentences, I know what's gonna happen in the first chapter, second, third, fourth, fifth, so forth and so on, and you don't have to do that for the whole book. But for me, I outlined, I think, like maybe the first 20 or so chapters and then I, when I got to a point where I was like oh my gosh, where do I go next, I would turn to my outline. So I don't get writer's block and that helps me because I know exactly where I'm going to go next in the story. And of course, that outline looks nothing like the end of the book and it's not supposed to. It's just it's like a roadmap or a guide.

Aliah Wright:

You know, I was talking to another friend of mine who is he has a book coming out in November and he was like I'm the opposite. I have to, I'm going to roll with it as I go, I'm going to keep writing and then just see where it takes me. And he's like you know, but I've seen some of his notes. He's like you know, but I've seen some of his notes. So I'm like you're kind of doing it a little bit, but I'm like not to the extent. And then some people, it depends. I mean, there's no right or wrong way to approach how you're going to write or tell your story. The only thing I think that really matters is dedication and persistence, and those are the things that actually will help you in your journey. If you're listening and you want to write a novel, definitely devote time to it. Definitely set the time aside to write.

Aliah Wright:

Hemingway used to get up every morning and write. A friend of mine, dc Frost, who wrote A Punishing Breed. She talks about how she got up at 5 am to write and I'm like girl, I'm just drooling in my pillow at 5am. I'm not getting up that early to write. I'm sorry For me. I write like on.

Aliah Wright:

I pick a day. I usually um a Sunday, after you know, after church, after everyone's fed, after you know it's not light outside. I write better at night. So I will go and I'll either go into my office or my kitchen or sometimes I go to Starbucks or you know a nice cafe and I'll sit and I'll write and the noise doesn't bother me, because I worked in newsrooms for so many years where people were talking and the TV's on and when you get to the point where you're focused, you're just focused, and then I could put headphones on to play classical music, if I want, or jazz, and then just sit there and just be in gross and write for like five or six hours straight, yeah, and sometimes I'd be there so long that you know the people in Starbucks would kick me out. They're like we're about to close and you've had all this free coffee but you need to leave. So for me it's like you have to pick and decide Pick a day or pick some time of the week.

Aliah Wright:

I have friends who they'll lock themselves in hotels for like weeks and just write. You know they just want to just be focused on that one thing, turn everything off and just focus on it. I still have the internet. I still, you know, will get an occasional ping from someone, but my social media is, like you know, turned off and I'm just focusing and that's my time. So when you devote that time, it's almost like a job, but it becomes something you enjoy. It's like a habit or a hobby. When you turn it into a habit, it's easier to actually finish what you start, and that's whether you have an outline or not.

Kristen Bahls:

That is very true. So, as a traditionally published author, what's kind of the normal deadline that you have to write a book? Do you get a year, or is it less than that?

Aliah Wright:

Um, I don't, I don't know. I mean, it just depends. Um, there are still people waiting, I think, for George RR Martin's new Game of Thrones book. When you get to the, when you get to the point where you're just cause. But, like I said, writing is hard and plotting out the book is hard, and trying to figure out where the characters are going to go next and whether or not you know the things that you, that you're writing, makes sense, and sometimes your story is not going the way you think it's going to go because the characters are doing different things. So it it's just a matter of like.

Aliah Wright:

Just, I'm not like on any kind of a deadline. I don't think a lot of writers are and you know, yeah, cause it's like when you're first publishing your book, of course you know yeah, because it's like when you're first publishing your book, of course you know you finish it and you're like excited and you're sending it out, you know. Or, like me, I had an agent, so my agent sent it out and we were just waiting to hear back from people and it didn't take that long for me to get a book deal. But it was like you know, and I didn't get a lot of rejections down, but just weird and different, because it was the pandemic.

Aliah Wright:

After Red Hen picked the book up, a lot of things slowed down. So a lot of, a lot of books that were supposed to come out like during that time didn't because of the pandemic, because we were all at home, so the people who go and produce know books weren't out there. So I had to wait. My book was like in a queue, you know, which was fine. You know it worked out the way it's supposed to work out.

Aliah Wright:

But in terms of, like, subsequent novels, I mean, uh, it it just depends I mean what. It depends on what you're writing, um, what your story is, which roads you're going down. My characters are going to be like crisscrossing, you know, the globe in book two and in book three. So it's you know, and these are all places that I've been or places I plan to revisit or go to, and these are things that I was thinking of when I was writing and I was like you know what, I think I might have to go X, y, z place again, or I'm definitely going to go to this place, now that you know I'm, I'm thinking about this for what's going to happen in the future.

Kristen Bahls:

So it just I mean I guess the answer is it depends on a lot of factors, true, and I was going to say I'm sure all the contracts are so different too, so it's probably also what you're contracted to as well.

Aliah Wright:

In addition, to all of those other external factors. Yeah, yeah, a whole lot, some, some beyond my control and some within my control.

Kristen Bahls:

Well, I'm glad it was able um able to be published and it's out and about and out in the world and it was amazing. And now you're officially a debut fiction author.

Aliah Wright:

Yeah, and I'm, and I'm excited, I am so excited about this. It's just one of those things where it's like a dream come true. I don't know anybody who writes for a living or who's a journalist or who's a scribe. They've got a book in them somewhere. It's just a matter of trying to have that come to fruition and being diligent and having perseverance and just being positive too. That helps a lot. That helps a whole lot.

Kristen Bahls:

I'm sure it's easy to have self-doubt with just how isolating it can be without other offers.

Aliah Wright:

Right, when you're writing, we're all in a vacuum. We're not like JK Rowling sitting in a coffee shop with a pen and a notepad writing, but it's a solitary process and you're in your head and you're thinking oh my gosh, this you know, ben and Corinthia are people that I created and now everybody knows them and feels like they're a part of you. Know this, this phenomenon of just being a person who's read this book and and I I'm like open to talking about this at at book clubs too I can't wait to do some book clubs. I haven't done any yet, but if anybody's out there they want me to be in a book club, please let me know. But yeah, it's just one of those things where you know you, you spend this time and you're creating these, these fictional people, and for some people, people say, oh, my characters are so real and I'm like, maybe, maybe, yeah, I connected, I think, mostly with the Amanda character.

Aliah Wright:

She does a lot of things that when people read it, they're like it's sort of like you watch a person who hears something in the basement and they, you know, they turn the light, switch on and the light doesn't come on and they grab a bat and then the whole audience is like don't go down there. And they go down there anyway. That's Amanda. She's going to go down the basement. Aliah's not going in any basements. I'm not going with a gun, I'm not going with a flashlight, I'm not going with a bat, I'm going outside and I'm going to call the cops that would be what I would do too, but thankfully for the story, Amanda does not abide by that.

Aliah Wright:

Right.

Kristen Bahls:

And is there anything else that you would like to let the listeners know about? Now you Own Me.

Aliah Wright:

I probably will think of a zillion and one things once this podcast is over, but for right now I just want you to go out, get the book. It's available wherever books are sold. If you can go to your local bookstore, do that. Take your kids, you know. Walk around, call the bookstore and order it ahead of time just to make sure that they have it in stock. But definitely it's available in any place that you would normally buy your books. I hope you enjoy it and, if you do, please write me an Amazon review or hit me up on TikTok @ Aliah Writes, or Instagram or Facebook, and let me know what you think. And thank you so much for having me on your podcast. I'm really excited to be here and I'm glad to talk about the book.

Kristen Bahls:

Yes, thank you so much for coming on, and that's it for today. Thank you for listening to, Where I Left Off - A Bookish Podcast, and you can purchase Aliah's novels through the links in the show notes.