Where I Left Off

Beautifully Broken with Author Cassandra Moll

• Kristen Bahls • Season 2 • Episode 43

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Thanks to author Cassandra Moll for talking to me about her debut novel, Beautifully Broken.

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Speaker 1:

Welcome back. I'm Kristen Balls and you're listening to when I Left Off a bookish podcast, and today I'm joined by the author of Beautifully Broken, cassandra Mall. Thank you so much for coming on today, cassandra. Of course, thank you for having me. So the first question that I always ask everyone and the reason that I ask this is because I feel like authors just have the best recommendations of their favorite authors. And the reason that I asked this is because I feel like authors just have the best recommendations of their favorite authors and it seems like every time I've read a book from an author that they've recommended, I've absolutely loved it. So no pressure, I know no pressure. What are you currently reading?

Speaker 2:

right now. Okay, so I did just finish listening to Lights Out we talked about this a little bit before by Nevesa Allen. That was different for me. I do love a good audiobook and their voices were amazing, so highly recommend it as an audiobook. But prior to that I read Saving Six by Chloe Walsh.

Speaker 2:

Oh, I haven't read that series yet. Oh, the Boys of Toman, it is life changing, good to know. I started with binding 13, obviously, which is the first in the series, and it was incredible. I listened to that one, actually, because it's very long, and then it took me a while to pick up the next one. It was heavy, so it took me a while. I needed a few palette cleansers in between, but I finally picked up saving six and I loved it so much more than Binding 13, which I thought was impossible. So there's still a few. I have to get to Redeeming Six and there's the Sevens. But yeah, highly recommend. Chloe Walsh is great too.

Speaker 1:

Okay, good, I'll move it up my TBR. Did you know that, nevesa, she actually writes sports romance too. She has a couple. My friend told me about them, does she? Yeah, she said that they're really good. They're not dark, they're just sports.

Speaker 2:

Isn't it interesting, like how you can just toggle back and forth I mean I guess I get it as an author Like I have different thoughts. That kind of don't go with my typical theme. Um, but yeah, there's so many authors do that and you're like, hold on a second. She wrote a thriller and a romance. You know that's a little different, but the only one I ever I mean Lights Out is so like hyped up right now that I just kind of jumped on board. There's a sequel too, isn't there?

Speaker 1:

I don't think it's out yet, okay, but yes, yes, there is. I'm pretty sure it's going to happen. But yeah, she has sports romance and I didn't know until my friend was talking about it and I'm like, oh, didn't even think to check her other books. I just kind of thought it was her first one, cause you know, if you looked it up, you'd probably only see dark romance and think like, okay, that's it.

Speaker 2:

Well, I saw that with so many authors, you know, having started my journey myself, like I forget who it was specifically, but someone had, you know, a very big book that everyone was reading and when I went on, like Goodreads, I scrolled down and it was like 12 other books and I just didn't even, you know, I assumed it was their first one because everyone was talking about it. But yes, I'll have to check those out.

Speaker 1:

And it kind of makes me feel better to know that. You know a lot of authors have a really big backlist before they get popular. It's not like they just said I'm going to write a book and then it's magically, you know, super successful, like they you can kind of tell based on the number of books in their backlist, like how long they've been really grinding at it to get that one super, super successful read Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

I think it's. Kristen Hanna wrote some ridiculous number of stories before, like the Nightingale, and I mean I don't know if you've read that, but that's just like infinite stars and I mean I love all of her books, but when I found that out I was like, okay, I can make it, I have time. Even the legend herself, you know Exactly. So no, I agree, it's very cool.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I was going to say, even like Brandon Sanderson, I think he had to write 12 or 15 before Mistborn even got published, before they would agree to publish.

Speaker 2:

So yeah, Isn't that wild.

Speaker 1:

I know.

Speaker 2:

And then I'm like where do you come up with all these? I mean, just having started myself, I can't imagine you know one day being like oh, 20 books ago. But I guess you know, eventually you get there, so cool yeah.

Speaker 1:

I will say that I have a group chat with some romance authors and so we're always like sending each other reels of like hey, I think this should be a book. And so then we'll like write down each other's ideas. So you'd be shocked at like what random reels you know pop up and then you're like, oh, wait a minute, I don't know that could be an idea.

Speaker 2:

I have written down like some weird, some quotes or like lyrics. We were watching. I have three children, five and under, all girls. So we were watching like Frozen one day, and one of the characters said something and I wrote it in a note. I'm like that's a scene right there, like I mean, obviously it's seen in the movie, but I'm like that's a romance scene. I need to write that down. So, yeah, I, I mean, I'm with you. You guys have to just make sure you don't write the same book, I guess, based off the same reel. True.

Speaker 1:

True. Someone will be like I'm taking this one, I got this one, yeah, so it dibs on that reel that you sent yesterday, yep. I'm just sending it to you because I want to, but it's mine, yeah, that kind of thing.

Speaker 2:

Right, or I'll do that with my friends. I'm sending you this so I can find it later in our chat.

Speaker 1:

Oh, that's smart. So how did the idea for Beautifully Broken come along? Was that like a quote or something that you came up with first, or did you kind of have the idea for the plot?

Speaker 2:

So this is actually a crazy story. I haven't even talked about it much because when does it come up? You know the backstory come up, but my dad passed away a couple years ago and I actually sat down to write stories from his life just so that I didn't forget them. It's one of those things where you know when someone's gone, you realize like all of the things you never asked or the things you never found out, you know. So I sat down to write out, kind of, I guess, just a collection of stories from his life, thinking maybe I would write a memoir or something for myself, just like of him.

Speaker 2:

And I wrote the prologue of Beautifully Broken, because that was a true story from his life in foster care and like in, you know, before he went into the system. That was like something that actually happened to him and it was something that stuck out to me because if you've read the prologue it's pretty intense. And so I wrote that. And then a couple hours later I had, like this romance book which, you know, if anyone writes anything, you know like you don't control the plot, the characters do. So yeah, as weird as it sounds, my opportunity to write about my dad eventually spun into Jameson, who has a lot of characteristics of, like my dad's personality and a lot of his memories and things like that, but like a 24 year old mechanic, you know MMC, yeah, exactly. So yeah, that that's where the idea came from. It was not meant to even be ever. It just kind of like spewed out when I started to do that.

Speaker 1:

So that was cool how a piece of him really inspired the story and now you can look back on that book and I'm sure it holds even more meaning because of that.

Speaker 2:

Oh, absolutely, and it's like one of those things where you know someone's not ever truly gone If you're talking about them. People don't know it, but it's little winks to him in the book. That's like all over the world to some extent. But you know people all over the world read and things like that, and so that's kind of cool to like hold on to him that way. It was a big part of like the grieving process that I think I needed to do and now it's just like such a happy part. So, yeah, it was really cool.

Speaker 1:

Wow, that is really, really special. I'm glad I asked.

Speaker 2:

And, like I said, when does that come up, especially in, like you know, a 30 second reel or something on Instagram? So yeah, it's kind of like a fun fact. Not many people know.

Speaker 1:

That is so cool. Can you tell us about your current work in progress? So was this a standalone or is it kind of spurring off a series? I kind of have a feeling it's a series but Okay.

Speaker 2:

So Beautifully Broken is actually one of two. I keep calling it the Maple Grove series. That's the small town, but it's really a duo. Daring Destiny comes out March 1st. It's actually with ARC Readers right now, which is very exciting. But that is the second. That's the sequel. It is Chloe and Ronan's story. It's a little uh, if you want me to tell you a little bit about it, it's a little bit unexpected. It doesn't just like pick up and like they fall in love and you know that's their story. It's just from Chloe's point of view. But it's a dual time frame, so it's then and now, um, before and now, as it's written in the book. So the before part picks up right at the end of Beautifully Broken and we see kind of how their friendship turns into a relationship and through like that first year of them being together. But the now part is actually them when they're broken up.

Speaker 1:

Oh, wow, okay, Okay, okay.

Speaker 2:

And so, yeah, so it's different. A lot of people who read Beautifully Broken are like yeah, yeah, I can't wait to read Chloe and Ronan's story and I'm like I second guess that a little bit. No, it of course there's a happily ever after. Yeah, it's a little a little twist. So those are just the two for now. I've gotten a few messages needing Sean's story, if you remember him, so maybe I'll try and do like a little something fun with him, but I don't think he'll have his own full book now. That's fair.

Speaker 1:

But yeah, that would be cool to see how Sean how that whole thing shakes out too.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, with him and him and Maddie. He's a funny guy, so I think that would make for like a fun novella or something, just like something quirky. But yeah, so, daring Destiny, I guess it's not really my work in progress. It's out, you know, march 1st, but my current like actual work in progress will be a series.

Speaker 1:

On Daring Destiny. So wow, it's second chance romance. Okay, that's really unique.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, it's like it's so funny because I remember texting my friend, my author friend, like after the book was written, and being like wait, this is second chance. Like I wasn't listing that in like my tropes, because in the story they're three weeks broken up, so it's like still feels like we're lingering on that first chance. You know, but the way I always explain it is it's friends to lovers, to a breakup, to fake dating because they're pretending to still be together, to second chance. So yeah, it's kind of it's a little of everything.

Speaker 1:

I like that. It's almost kind of like Lynn Painter moves since well, I'm going to spoil that Going from better than the movies to nothing like the movies. They're broken up in the second one. I mean, it's not the same thing, but it's the same kind of idea of they start out broken up and nothing like the movies and it's also a second chance. Yeah, it's going to hurt your feelings, but in a good way.

Speaker 2:

So now, I have to read it. Well, that's it. One of the arc readers was like this is terrible, You're breaking my heart. And my answer was it gets worse, but I promise it gets better. Exactly, that's the gets worse, but I promise it gets better.

Speaker 1:

Exactly as long. That's a good thing about romance, though, is whenever there's a really angsty portion. I feel like you can always say at least I do in the back of my head like there's a happily ever after, there's a happily ever after, so it's going to be fine, it's all going to come together somehow, yeah.

Speaker 2:

You're like hyping yourself up to get past it. I know Well, I love that angst Like I re. I love writing it. I love reading it like that pull and push and the tug of war. I love that. So to me that's like the light at the end of the tunnel, but like the journey is so fun to get there.

Speaker 1:

Do you have any tips or tricks for kind of writing in that angst and how to have that push and pull?

Speaker 2:

I guess now, granted it's. You know fiction and so there's obviously parts that you know only happen in books maybe. But I try to write really realistically. You know, if you're in an argument with someone in some books maybe you know it's like back and forth and back and forth and then it's like, okay, I love you and you know that's the end. But to me that's not real life and I love the like angst of not knowing, like how you wouldn't know in real life. You know like people get upset and it lingers and then you have to kind of like keep yourself from being near them or something like that. So I try to just write realistically and just like genuinely to how things might play out.

Speaker 2:

I don't know, I know it's not for everyone, that's not like everyone's writing style and not everyone's reading style. So I think that helps that I do like it. But I think, besides that, just kind of think what would be true, you know. And then of course you can put your fictional spin on things. You wouldn't always take him back or you wouldn't, you know, just writing kind of how things would actually pan out, at least how they have for me. Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 1:

I do have one more question before we really get into Beautifully Broken. So whenever I was reading your bio, it said that you were a hockey wife. Would you ever write a hockey romance? It's just so big right now, or is that like no too close to home?

Speaker 2:

So it's funny because that's actually where I'm headed, my work in progress. Yes, I haven't told anyone else that yet, not that it's the big secret or anything, but yeah, I am a hockey wife and so I am writing a hockey romance. But it is not a hockey player, it is a hockey coach. Oh, yes, so it is a hockey romance, but I'm doing my own little spin. Like you said, it's so popular right now, but it's so close to home. I felt like I had to capitalize on that right.

Speaker 2:

But with it being so popular, how do you make yourself stand out and your story stand out? And for me, not that there's no other books about a hockey coach, but for me that's what I know. So you know, you write what you know, and so it actually will be easier for me to write that perspective. So, yeah, I'm actually a pretty good portion in. I really like it. I didn't know how I would feel. I'm very much like an against the grain kind of person. So, because it was like so big, I wasn't sure that I wanted to step there yet, but it just kind of came naturally and so, yeah, we're good, we're going there, that's what's coming.

Speaker 1:

Yay, oh cool, I'm really excited. I do love reading hockey romance from the perspective of you know, whenever I mean, I'm sure, especially for you you can tell, but I feel like even I can tell whenever I'm reading it if someone truly like loves hockey and is coming from a place of, like I love hockey and I want to put as much hockey in there with the romance as I can. Versus like, if someone's like okay, this is just at a game, they're at a game for about five seconds or they're coming back from practice and hockey's in there, and it's on the cover but it's not really like a hockey hockey book.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I say that all the time because I told my husband that I'm going to have to put his name on the title too, because anytime there's, I mean, I know hockey, but I want it to be authentic and I want it to be a hockey romance, not just a romance with hockey on the cover, which is also fine if that's what you want. But a lot of my friends know the sport and you know a lot of my author friends also write hockey. So like we do know hockey, so I keep making him help me with the certain scenes. I'm like, what, what time would they get there? How long would practice, you know? Know, like I'm one to like triple check plot holes too, and so I'm like, okay, pretend that you. Well, he doesn't have to pretend. But I'm like I want to pretend that this reader is a hockey player and so like I want them to love the romance, but I also want them to be like that would actually happen, you know.

Speaker 1:

I appreciate that because, yeah, me and my friends, whenever we're like sending dms to each other, we're like that would never happen. How would that actually happen? So, yeah, that's like our main thing.

Speaker 2:

That gets us so frustrated yeah, no, seriously like and there's a couple like winks in there too, at like, if you really know hockey, you'll pick it up, and if you don't, that's fine. But I really wanted it to be authentic to a hockey romance now I I'm really really excited.

Speaker 1:

I was already excited, but now I'm really really excited for it.

Speaker 2:

My plan is for four of them. They won't all be hockey related, but they're all like sports in general. But yeah, hockey is the first and possibly the second. It was meant it had to happen. I mean, it's literally my life. My kids skate and play hockey. My husband's a hockey coach, so yeah, it was meant to be.

Speaker 1:

Okay, focusing a little bit more on Beautifully Broken specifically. So how would you describe the relationship kind of dynamic between Jay and Claire and what makes their romance unique?

Speaker 2:

So I think for me and I know this is true for a lot of stories, but it's just very genuine, obviously like there's a physical attraction there. They have, you know, this big meet cute where they're both like taken by each other. But the spice in the book is very much plot driven and I just feel like their relationship is so genuine, like they're both flawed. But Jay especially has so many flaws and so many things he thinks are flaws that maybe aren't but that like really weigh on him. And Claire is just understanding of it, she just is forgiving of all the things. And you know, and I think that is kind of their dynamic of like they're both going through a big life change sort of. I mean, jay has been going through it, claire is in the moment going through it.

Speaker 2:

It's kind of like just building each other up and just like filling in those holes that you feel like you have. And so the other person is like completing that for you, not not completing you, but kind of like filling in those gaps so you don't fall. You know, there's like you know that thing. That's the. A couple has to be a hundred percent. You don't always have to be 50, 50. Sometimes I'm going to be 20 and I need you to be 80. And sometimes you're going to be 10 and I have to be 90. And I feel like they really just do that for each other. To me, I think that's pretty unique. It's not just like oh, I think she's hot, I think he's hot, we fall in love. You know, I think there really is a lot of like power in their love.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, claire does a really good job at learning Jay and how to handle him, even though I feel like a lot of other women might be like nope, nope, I can't, and then just walk away and not even give him a chance, even though obviously he's deserving of love too.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, like you're too much. No, for sure, and I think too a lot of women you know in real life love the idea of a project person, right, someone who has a lot of things that they're working on, but you reach your limit and you get to like a point, and I feel like Claire is very forgiving of that. I think it comes back to her job too. Like she's a teacher and so she's used to that. She kind of like is used to supporting people and helping to mold them, as like weird as that might sound, but like being there for them, as they're kind of learning and growing, and so, yeah, I think they're like the perfect pair, because she's also very shy and reserved and kind of like insecure in herself as much as she's secure in him and like will help him. It's harder, you know, looking inside and he is like that big, bold personality. That's like you're it and you should own that and that's like the only way that I survived getting here. So, yeah, I think they feed off each other well.

Speaker 1:

And which character's perspective was easier for you to write, and why?

Speaker 2:

I think Jay's character surprisingly, even though he's the male character, because I just went so much off of my dad's personality and just a lot of it is true, and so it was just kind of like writing, you know, real stories. I mean Claire, I am in, I work in education and I left the classroom and went into into admin and now I'm writing my own books and so I am very much like Claire also. But to me Jay was so easy to write. I don't know if it just had to do with my dad or maybe that was just like the person that has been growing in my mind just had to be put to paper. But yeah, for me it was so easy, and people have said that too. Like, how did you write him so realistically? I, it was so easy, and people have said that too, like, how did you write like him so realistically? I can't write from a guy's perspective or something like that.

Speaker 1:

It just came naturally.

Speaker 2:

That is so cool. Hey, if it happens, it happens, that's perfect. Yeah, wow, yeah Right. I mean I love, like the dual point of view thing, so it would be a big struggle if I couldn't put myself into that mindset, at least you know.

Speaker 1:

So what does your editing process look like once you finish that first draft?

Speaker 2:

Just so much reading. It's almost like exhausting. I like to read it and read it and read it and edit it myself a million times in between each step. So when I'm done the draft, just starting from the top, starting from the top reading all the way through, doing that several times, you know, then it goes off to beta readers and things, and then when it comes back I do it again. It's funny, it's like you know that joke of I only read two books this month, but I read my book 12 times. So does that count, you know? But yeah, it is as simple as it sounds.

Speaker 2:

I just read it and read it until you know it so well that, like you're not worried about the plot, you're not worried about the character arcs and things like that. It's just like, okay, what makes more sense here? What grammar needs to be changed there? That's the way I do it. I know that might be totally cringy to some people. I don't know, I don't know the process, but if you don't read it, hell, you know what's in there. Yeah, I mean, like I remember reading it and being like I can't read this one more, I'm so sick, you know, like I just it's like reading the same book over it, because that's what it is.

Speaker 1:

And I'm sure you're used to reading like little scenes at a time over and over again. But actually going back and seeing how it plays out into the whole story is probably completely different when you have to do like a full reread Right, and it's not like a book that you're picking up Like I love reading.

Speaker 2:

That's not it, but I already know the story as much as I have reread some of my favorite books. It would be like doing it 12 times in a row. Man, yeah, that would be hard.

Speaker 1:

Were there any quirks or details about Jay and Claire really any of the characters that maybe didn't make it into the final version of the book?

Speaker 2:

I wouldn't say necessarily quirks, that didn't make it in. I think they each have their own little quirks that if you pay close attention or you do read it, that second or third time you'll pick up on it. It's funny because there's a lot of music in the book and a lot of song references, so much so that there's, you know, a full playlist at the back of just songs from the story. And what I didn't realize having not even sitting down to write a book, you know a full playlist at the back of just songs from the story. And what I didn't realize having not even sitting down to write a book, you know it just came naturally is you can't put song lyrics in a story. And so I had my story.

Speaker 2:

I think it was done, I think the whole first draft was done, and any mention of a song most mentions of the songs in the book which I mean I think there's like 18 of them were lyrics and some, like one of my beta readers was like girl, you can't do that, and so a lot of those obviously didn't make them and I had to go back and kind of allude to it or just drop the title, you know, instead of the lyrics or kind of summarize what the artist was saying and say, like from Justin Bieber's point of view, kind of thing, you know. But yeah, so all of those lyrics that I painstakingly wanted in the story weren't there.

Speaker 1:

So I think, it all worked out. That is so, so hard. I've heard a lot of other authors say that, like, yeah, you could only put the title, or you can't really just put a song lyric, and that makes sense, but that would be so hard. That's one of those things that you don't think about until, luckily, you had a beta reader. Point that out. I mean, your editor would have, but you know, still, at least it got to the point where you could fix it before your editor got a hold of it yeah, and then you know you can go back and fix it in the meantime and you don't.

Speaker 2:

You're not like so invested already. Yeah, yeah, I mean talk about like, oh, where do you get ideas from? I mean, so many of those scenes were built around lyrics and I had to take them out, so it was a little bit of a game changer. But we're learning as we go.

Speaker 1:

So what was your favorite scene to write in? Have readers kind of had a clear favorite, and is that the same as your favorite?

Speaker 2:

I don't know if I have an exact favorite when they meet. I really love that. I just think that's so fun and there's a big scene at the end that I won't give too much away. But you know, it's kind of like when they come back together and that was like a really fun moment to write because it felt very satisfying, felt like rewarding and you know I knew I was so close to being the end and that was kind of the start of like fulfilling their story. But I also really just love any scene that Chloe's in. Like Chloe and Claire just have like this perfect, like, like, like I said, claire is very shy and reserved and Chloe is just not and she's so loyal and like fun and outgoing so that always made me laugh. Same with Ronan and Jay's you you know relationship. I love that too. I feel like some of my favorite scenes might even just be around those friendships not even so much Claire and Jay, which is interesting.

Speaker 2:

But as far as readers go, there's one scene in particular that there's a quote wherever you are, and a lot of people seem to come back to that one. I don't know if it's just that short snippet of like a statement that sticks out. But again it's kind of like a like a story changing moment. And there's another scene where they just have their first kiss and you know they're walking out of the place that they just had their first kiss. And Jay like really his internal monologue is like I want to do this, I want to do this, I want to say this, like I can't let her leave. And he says he does like. You know, the story says like I say this, I do this, and then it says only I say none of that and I just let her walk away. And a lot of people have like screenshotted that and been like what? So that's kind of fun, you know, because that's who he is, like his brain is just constantly second guessing himself and things like that. So that was fun.

Speaker 1:

I really also liked the, the barbecue scene and the mall. Just I don't know. Like you said, whenever all the characters are interacting together, that was really fun. On like a fun note, not as much of an angsty note, but on more of a fun note. I like that too.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, definitely. I've had people say I wish I had more of like them as a group you know, because I think it is a little heavier and they are like they're four totally different personalities Ronan's very chill, jay is very you know edgy. Chloe's very bubbly, claire is very reserved, and so it's kind of fun to see them interact. But I will say that in Daring Destiny, 90% of the story is the four of them.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so if anyone needs more of that friendship, it's there.

Speaker 2:

And Ron's music choice just always made me laugh. It was so bad that barbecue scene. Like I was, I was literally. You should have seen my Google history.

Speaker 1:

Like just Googling like the weirdest songs. Yeah, that was great, those were fun. I was reading that thinking, thinking like how did she think of this, especially whenever they're you were giving examples of like ways. Jay was explaining ways in the past where his song choice was not, yes, fit for the occasion.

Speaker 2:

I was like, oh my gosh, exactly like the one where, uh, what is it like? Uh, margaritaville, but it's at someone's like five years sober. You, you know, yes, like, yeah, I would either think of a song and have to come up with the scene, or I would think of a scene and have to come up with the song, but the one part where I talk about it's like two different singers and you know it's a certain song that they pick. Can I tell you the amount of time I spent trying to find two artists that had the same name but that also, like, were in? You know, like, relative to everything, yeah, that was fun though that is awesome.

Speaker 1:

I do like how music's intertwined a lot throughout the book and how you were able to do that, because that's hard to really try to find the right song to match the scene and match the situation.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I feel like that's kind of like oh, I just really enjoy music and the lyrics really like are my favorite part. But that's kind of been something that's become like my thing. You know, on Instagram or whatever, if I post something, people are like how do you pick these songs Like these? You know it's always like the perfect match. I think that's just how my brain works. I'm not musically inclined at all, but listening to it is my favorite thing.

Speaker 1:

Do you have like a million playlists organized and everything?

Speaker 2:

Oh, yeah, and every book has playlists. You know, I have, like my kids, playlists and things like that, but like, when I hear songs, I have lists going of future books. I think they go with. You know, it's maybe a little much, but it works. Yeah, it works, it works for me.

Speaker 2:

What advice would you give to aspiring romance authors? Oh, that's one I think I would. As simple as it sounds, I would say just write like, don't worry about what fits in and what doesn't. I always say not every book is for everybody, but it's for someone and so you know, I think we write what we like typically. I mean, I'm not writing fantasy books because I don't typically read them. So if you're writing it and you enjoy the story, chances are someone else out there is also going to. You just have to find your people, you know, and just don't care so much about what it's supposed to sound like, what everyone else is doing, what tropes it fits Like.

Speaker 2:

I just had this conversation with someone about my work in progress and I'm like I don't know what trope it goes into. And you know we kind of got to the point of being like why does it matter? You know like that it doesn't have to fall into a category. So I would probably say that and read. Whenever I get to like a block in my writing, I read. It's inspiring, it tells you what you like, it tells you what you don't like. You know you might just pick up on one thing a character says and it just sparks something else in you.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, I think just my big advice is write and read. And I've heard from a lot of readers lately that they kind of want like fewer tropes, you know because they feel like they've read it. And so I've heard kind of more like sprinklings of I don't want all the tropes. Or if your book has 20 tropes then I may not want to read it because I like something a little bit different that maybe doesn't fit into a trope. So it's actually kind of I think that's popping up a little bit more.

Speaker 2:

Oh, wow, I love that. Okay, yeah, I haven't heard that yet. I mean, I have heard people. You know I can't do another fake dating trope or especially like the novellas around Christmas. A lot of them are very similar, which that's what we're looking for, right, you just want like that, that's what you're craving at the time. But if I read one more grumpy, sunshine Christmas novella, you know like whatever it might be, so I actually kind of love that Good. So we're trending in that direction. That's my big advice. Then it's fitting for where we're headed.

Speaker 1:

Exactly, you were already seeing the trends before they started happening.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's it. I'm a leader, I'm a leader.

Speaker 1:

I was gonna say I've actually found a lot of Christmas books this year that didn't fit that specific trope, that seemed really different and were fitting with the mold. So yeah, I think that there are just a lot of books out there and it depends on probably also kind of where you're finding your books and if you're ready to kind of delve a little bit deeper and maybe look at authors that you haven't heard of before, you can be really pleasantly surprised on what you'll find.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely, especially like the indie authors. I mean, I don't know, I've never traditionally published, but I would assume that you kind of go with what's popular. Sometimes you know, or like what categories can we advertise for those kinds of things? And so a lot of indie authors start kind of like I did, like they don't have a plan in mind, they just dump a story on the page, and so I think you can probably find a lot of books that are different that way too. Like you said, where you look, you know where you look and what you read.

Speaker 1:

So is there anything else that you would like readers to know?

Speaker 2:

No, I just, if anyone has read any of my books, I just want to say thank you. I just. I can't even begin to fathom that the words that came out of my brain in the middle of my dining room in the summertime are now, you know, being read on people's Kindles and everything else all over. So I always say it changed my corner of the world. I might not change the world, but it changed my corner. So thank you to everyone. Yeah, I love this journey and it's just so fun and I love that they're all here.

Speaker 1:

That's it for today. Thanks for listening to when I Left Off a bookish podcast. You can sign up for Cassandra's newsletter, purchase her novels and find everything to follow her in the links in the show notes.