Where I Left Off
Welcome to Where I Left Off, a bookish podcast. I'm your host, Kristen Bahls. Join me to hear my recommendations of a mix of young adult, new adult, romance, mystery, and thriller novels.
In each episode, I dive into the intricate worlds crafted by talented authors, exploring the characters, plots, and the emotions that make you want to throw your television out the window, because we both know the book is always better than the movie. Whether you carry a book everywhere you go and already have your own Bookstagram, or are just trying to make your Goodreads goal, Where I Left Off is the podcast for you.
From heartwarming romances to spine-tingling mysteries, I cover it all. Sometimes, I'll delve deep into a single novel, and other times, I'm filling your TBR with multiple reads.
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Where I Left Off
Love, Camera, Action with Author Noel Stark
Thanks to author Noel Stark for joining me to talk about her debut novel Love, Camera, Action.
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Welcome back. I'm Kristen Balls and you're listening to when I Left Off a bookish podcast. Today, I'm joined by Noelle Stark, author of Love Camera Action. Thank you so much for joining me today, noelle.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, thank you for having me on. I'm excited.
Speaker 1:Good to talk about romance.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man.
Speaker 1:Always good. So first things first. What are you currently reading right now?
Speaker 2:Okay, so I'm I'm feeling this summer is going to be a sci-fi summer and I'm going from like a someone suggested a romance sci-fi called this Is how you Lose the Time War.
Speaker 1:Oh, yep, I've heard of that one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so I've just started it. It's really cool. It's written in this really interesting way where these two kind of warring factions, where you're learning about who these warring factions are, but through letters that they're sending each other. So it's a pistol story. It's enemies to lovers, but it's also got this really interesting sci-fi head to it. So, uh, yeah, I've been reading that.
Speaker 1:I love that. Do you typically read more than one book at once, or is it just one at a time?
Speaker 2:No, I can't, I have to do the one at a time I pretend because I find those people are so smart, you know, and they're like I'm reading five books. I'm like, wow, it's so impressive. I can't do that. It's a skill, Do you?
Speaker 1:do that. Yeah, I'm reading like six books, but they're all different genres. Like they have to be different genres. I can't read like five sci-fis or five fantasies. I have to mix it up completely and then I can keep up with what the plots are. So it has to be specific and in different mediums. Like if I'm listening to one during the day, then I might be reading one of my Kindle at night and then I have a physical for another. So as long as it's like different genres and different formats, that's kind of like the key to remembering what's going on.
Speaker 2:And do you do you? Whatever you listen to or read, is it dependent on your mood at the time?
Speaker 1:Yeah, kind of both. So I have like sometimes you know I'll have an arc that I need to read by a specific deadline, but then I have to have a romance, like before I go to sleep. I cannot read an intense fantasy or a thriller, like I can't sleep that way. So I have to have a romance going almost kind of at all times. And then audio books are definitely almost always like through the library, so they're very mood based. So, yes, kind of a mix between have to read, want to read and get to read. So you know, cool, okay, neat, you never know. You could always try it sometime.
Speaker 2:I will. I will for sure.
Speaker 1:So what are your top three favorite rom-coms? And I was kind of meaning this, more movies, but I mean it could be like a rom-com book, if that's what comes to mind.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, I was thinking of rom-com books, but I could also do movies. I mean, I've always really loved rom-coms, rom-com movies, rom-com books, everything. I think they kind of get short shrift in a way as though they're fluffy, but they're actually really hard to do so in movies. I think my favorite rom-coms I really love when Harry Met Sally. I think it's kind of perfect.
Speaker 2:There's an old 1940s movie called the Palm Beach Story which is by a guy named Preston Sturgis who did all these rom-coms at that time, like the Lady Eve. He kind of set the tone for romantic comedies in the 40s. So it's that quick banter innuendo splashed all the way through it, and so that's my favorite one of his. And then the third one would be like I'm so picky about romances, I I, I guess I'll have to say Moonstruck. I don't love the romantic comedies from the 2000s, find them a little bit shallow, like they're fun. They're fun, but I find them a bit shallow, like while you were sleeping. I like while you were sleeping. There's a. There's a Goldie Hawn, steve Martin romantic comedy that nobody talks about called House Sitter, which is flipping hilarious.
Speaker 1:I've never heard of that. Hold on, I have to write that down Right, you've never heard of it.
Speaker 2:It's flipping, hilarious. I've always wanted I've got this idea of you know, redo, wanted I've got this idea of you know, redoing that story as a novel because it's, because it's so funny. And then in books I would say the Duchess Deal by Tessa Dare, which is a historical regency, totally hilarious, so sexy. Hating Game by Sally Thorne, which has been turned into a movie, which I actually haven't seen because I don't want it to get in the way of the book.
Speaker 1:I saw the movie first and it kind of did get in the way of the book.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Cause you think about those actors and you think about what's missing, and and so I I've just decided not to read it. And then Alexis Hall is almost always hilarious, but my favorite of his is Boyfriend Material.
Speaker 1:Oh, yep, nice. Those are some really good choices. It's hard to narrow it down, though, both in movies and in books.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because everybody's got their different opinions and it's very fiery, like my, my stepdaughter and I get into fights almost every Christmas over love actually, cause she loves love actually and I flip and hate it and we like I don't like it.
Speaker 1:I don't like it either, thank you, I hate it so much and I wouldn't care so much.
Speaker 2:But there's this huge contingent of people who really love it, and so we good naturedly get into a fight about it every Christmas.
Speaker 1:I love when you read a book or watch a movie and you're like did we read or watch the same thing? I'm just not picking up what everyone else seems to be picking up.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, I find that on book talk all the time where people are just bananas over this book and I'm like I'll go give it a try and I just don't get it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:With book talk. It's either one way or another. It's either really really good and I love it.
Speaker 2:I'm like this is the best thing ever. It's oh no, not not my thing, yeah, yeah, because I have had books where I'm like, damn, I'm so glad I got this book from book talk. But you're right, it's one or the other.
Speaker 1:Hard to tell everyone's taste. I do like that whenever reviewers or book talk reviewers, they'll kind of talk a little bit about at least what they liked or didn't like about it, because nine times out of 10, I can kind of tell from that Okay, I think I will get on with that. Or sometimes I will follow someone who I purposefully don't like the books that they choose, and then I know if they like it, I'm like, okay, I'm probably not going to like this one. Versus it, I'm like, oh, I think I will like it and it's worked pretty well.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's so smart, that's really smart, that's really smart, that's really smart. Yeah, I try not to leave reviews on my TikToks, uh or IDs, because I know how hard it is to write books and to make movies. So, um, I, usually, whenever I review something, it's only when I like it, because it's also my taste, you know, I you know no shade on love actually love. Lots of people love it.
Speaker 1:It is their favorite movie, so clearly it's done well. Yeah, I know, it's just not mine. So what can you tell me about your current work in progress? Is Love Camera Action a complete standalone or is it going to be an interconnected standalone series?
Speaker 2:I've always wrote Love Camera Action as a series. Okay it's, it's sort of pitched as a standalone. You know, I I've always had it in my mind to to do a few other books on it. So I have started on the second book of that, and the second book is based on the actors that are in it.
Speaker 2:Like the first, the first book is, you know, about the director and the director of photography, and the reason why I put it in that world was because I'd seen a ton of and read a ton of Hollywood romances, and generally they are about the actors or sometimes the writers, but I'd never seen anything done with the crew, and so I wanted to set it in that very distinctive world. Because I knew that world, I knew the world of a set, I knew the world of, you know, scripted TV to the extent that I could write the book, and so that's why I wanted to kind of go into that new ground. But as the book was unfurling, I was seeing a love story happen between the actors as I was doing it. So I always in the back of my mind I was like, okay, paolo and Talia, like what's their deal going to be? And so I'm working on that now.
Speaker 1:Yay, that'll be really exciting. Oh, awesome, yay, because when I was reading that I was like, hmm, I kind of feel like that's a seed for something. I was like, but maybe I'm wrong, but I don't know. I kind of think it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah, it was definitely a seed because I could see sort of you know who they were and how they were reacting to each other and what kind of issues they were both dealing with and how they could help each other out with them. So there's a few things that are kind of just seeded along the way for those two.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and at first with those two is a little bit rough.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they like well, okay. So Paolo does not hate Talia. He's totally in love with Talia, but Talia can't stand Paolo Like. She's like who is this doof? He has no talent. I worked so hard to get here and he just like flounced on because he's a hot model and, um, she's so bitter about that.
Speaker 1:Which that would be so incredibly frustrating. For good reason, yeah, so frustrating.
Speaker 2:So frustrating, yeah. So and then he's just kind of an arrogant douche because he's scared. He's scared because he doesn't know how to act, and he knows it, and he knows he's screwing things up, and so then, instead of kind of being vulnerable, he acts like a goof. And so it's about. The second book is about him kind of shedding that and understanding that there's strength and vulnerability, and Talia learns to kind of just chill out a bit. She's a bit too intense.
Speaker 1:But she's kind of had to be but fair, you know.
Speaker 2:Yes, she has had to be. But she's risen to a place where, again, it's very hard for women in the business, hands down no matter what you're doing, yep, and for actresses, you have to be absolutely perfect all the time. So she's learned to be perfect at everything she does, just to succeed. But she's kind of gotten to a place where it's not working for her anymore, like the, the stridency isn't working for her anymore. So she has to learn to loosen up and remember who she is, to kind of go deeper.
Speaker 1:That makes sense, Kind of put down her armor a little bit yeah exactly, exactly. So, for those that don't know, can you tell me a little bit more about your background in film and television and how it's kind of shaped the story so far and how you knew enough to be able to write this book from the back end?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, okay, so I was always a performer in high school and in university and I went to theater school. I was a singer, I was an actor. And someone said to me they thought it was a really good business move to shoot a short film and act in it and just say, like this is my business card, here's my acting. And, for whatever reason, I didn't like the idea of being in a short film. But I liked the idea of shooting a short film and so I shot this short film. That went through the roof in terms of success. It went to Sundance, it went to TIFF. It was insane and it kind of launched me into this new world that I wasn't expecting. And so then from there, I worked on scripted shows. I worked at the very bottom, I was a production assistant, I was a locations assistant, I worked in casting. Like I said before, I was an actor, I was a singer, I did voiceover work, I did, and then I was writing, and then I was producing and I was directing and I did all sorts of different shows.
Speaker 2:I'm from Canada and because the business is much smaller in Canada than it is in LA, and so, as a result, I had to do a lot of different things just to kind of survive. So I was working in scripted but then I was also working in reality TV. I did a ton of reality TV in pretty much any genre you can imagine, like ghost shows, renovation shows, true crime, like all of it, food shows. I knew that world very well and I, you know, I was actually going through a hard time in my life at a point and I started reading romance novels because it was a safe space and it kind of helped me engage my mind in this soft, fun, sexy space, while in the back of my mind I was trying to figure out how to get myself out of this tough spot that I was in in my life. And as I was reading all these romance novels, I just got the bug and I was. I was like I wonder if I can write one of these.
Speaker 2:I started writing it and the relationship between the director, who's a woman, and the director of photography, who's a man, came fairly quickly to me, because it's a very charged relationship. When you're working on a TV show, you know people think that the director is the head of the set, but in TV it's like it's the producer First of all. The producer does everything, but the director just comes in and does a couple of episodes and then leaves. The director of photography, who does all the camera stuff, is in charge of all the visual stuff, for the TV show is to kind of report, quote, unquote to the director. But really they're on the same level and they have to figure out a way to work together on these shows. So the director of photography is on the whole time, the director's only on for a couple of episodes.
Speaker 2:And callie, who's been brought in at the last moment because the other director was fired for saying some unfortunate things about the Me Too movement. They've had to fire him. Pr moved to bring in a woman, but she's a bit of a newbie and she wants to kind of put her mark on the show. And Jory, who's the director of photography, does not want a newbie in there, he just wants to get through his day. He's happy that the other director was fired. He's very pro-woman in the director's seat but he's just not interested in a new person coming in and changing things.
Speaker 1:Fresh ideas are a no for him at first. Fresh ideas, yeah, no fresh ideas, please Like.
Speaker 2:I don't have time for them. So they spark right off the top and it's an enemies to lovers sort of romance.
Speaker 1:Definitely starts out as enemies, for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, and so sorry. So just to answer your question. So I wanted to set it in that world because I knew it quite well and I didn't want to because it was my first book that I had written. I wanted to focus on the characters and the love story. I didn't want to focus so much on the world. I didn't want to spend a lot of time researching or building a world so that I could focus on these other things. And so then that's why I set it in the TV industry.
Speaker 1:And kind of random aside, but whenever you were building the novel, did you almost act like the Demon was a real show that you were working on? Because the way you describe, like the set pieces and stuff, I'm like I feel like she basically built the Demon as if it were a real show and she was at work and then just used it for the book.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, that's, that's something that brings specificity to to the writing, right. So I wanted to do it. I wanted them to be shooting the show the Demon, which is kind of like a Buffy kind of show, right, like, I grew up with Buffy and I loved it so much and so I love those shows. So I wanted to kind of have them work on that type of show. But as you're going through the novel, you're like, okay, well, they need to have a fight. Where are they going to have a fight? And they're like, oh, next door is like the health set. So this is what a health set might look like. Or this is like the boardroom. Like what does the boardroom look like? Or a bar, or wherever they are. So you have to kind of build the show around it. And then you have to say, okay, well, why are they in a bar? Because they're doing this for the show. So you are kind of building a secondary story at the same time.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's really intricate, but I'm sure it made it easier, once you had that all built out, to go. Okay, this is kind of how it goes, and at least I have it built and then I can just decide what things are happening and what part of the show is going on, and all that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I was doing it as I went. I was very much pantsing that entire thing. So, yeah, that's hard. I don't know that I would do that again. Now that I'm writing other books it's a little bit easier, but it was sort of on the fly that I was building that world.
Speaker 1:But I mean, I'm sure the first one is kind of just getting your feet on the ground, figuring out what you want to do, and then, of course, subsequent books are what you, you know, know how to do from there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you become a little bit more adept at understanding what's required and how you, as a writer, can achieve those things. So like, for example, I knew that I write best in the mornings. If I try writing at night, my brain is like out to lunch. Or I knew that I would have to steal time from this place to write If I was going to get anything done. I'd have to write in front of my kids taekwondo class, you know. So you, you just kind of learn how how to do it a little bit better. I don't know that it gets easier. Writing like the actual writing. I don't think it gets easier. It's always terrible because you're terrified and you're like makes sense, but the process of it.
Speaker 2:That's easier, makes sense, but the process, I think that's easier.
Speaker 1:So what is one reality of being on just a TV or film set that you think people would be?
Speaker 2:surprised to learn that maybe they didn't realize. It's so boring yeah. It's so boring. It's all on the shot list, right? Yes, yeah, exactly. It's really like hurry up and wait. There's moments of intense activity and then there's so much waiting and it's so precise and it's so. I give to think of so many things. So I think people would like it all is presented like it's very glamorous and in some ways it is but most of the time it's just pretty boring.
Speaker 1:Makes sense. I mean you have to wait for them to set everything up, to get to the action, to actually do anything. Yeah, just snap your fingers. Yeah, exactly. Oh, my gosh, which character do you think would be the most fun or the most difficult to work with on a real life set? Who would you want by your side?
Speaker 2:I think the one you always want by your side is Dan, who is the AD, he's the assistant director, he's the guy who fixes everything and who is manages everything and he's just such a calm kind of dad like presence that you're just happy that he's there and he's fine and he's looking after you. But he's also very disciplined and will give you that tough love. So I think Dan's the guy that you always want to have around Like the most difficult, for sure, is Paolo Like he's such a pain. He's such a pain and he's so arrogant and he's like says all these dumb things and and you're just like, oh, this guy.
Speaker 1:True, I know, and you kind of have to pander to him because otherwise he'll throw a fit and call Howard yeah, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2:So I think that would be those characters make sense. I also. I should say I love Melanie too. I think Melanie's really fun. She's like the producer and she comes in. She's just a whirlwind of activity. She's like the producer and she comes in. She's just a whirlwind of activity. She's very smart and she's really on it, and she has to clean up a lot of messes. So I really like Melanie too. I hope Melanie gets her own book at some point.
Speaker 1:Ooh is that a possible teaser?
Speaker 2:Possible teaser of a Melanie book?
Speaker 1:yeah, Yay, if Love Camera Action were a Pinterest board or some kind of mood board, what things would be on it?
Speaker 2:I have such a problem with Pinterest boards and mood boards I like really. I'm so in awe of people who can make these things because I'm so bad at them. I'm like I don't know a picture of a camera. I don't know. Lavender. I don't know, oh bad at it. So when I'm looking at that question, I'm like I don't know what I'm interested for, which is maybe a bad thing, but so I honestly don't know how to answer that question.
Speaker 1:Sometimes they're hard to visualize. It just just depends if you can find the exact image? Have you had readers start to kind of send in like fan art yet?
Speaker 2:No, because I haven't been. I haven't been paying attention to reviews or those kinds of things. Okay, because I'm super delicate at the moment. So I get that. I mean I'm, I'm really happy when people like it, but if I, if I get a sniff of somebody not liking it, I'll, I'll just like kind of wither away. So I have to build up my tough skin a little bit more. Do you do load boards? Yes, sometimes, sometimes I will for sure. Yeah, what do you?
Speaker 1:put on them Like, where do you go to look for stuff? Well, um, it depends on if if I'm going to put something like on social media, then it has to be copyright free, of course.
Speaker 1:So then I'll go to Pexels, which is like the best you know copyright free image source and with that it's kind of like you have an image in your head and you're probably not going to find exactly what you're looking for, but at least you can find something kind of close. So I'll kind of use that and, honestly, I'll look at Instagram and kind of see what other people are doing. And, honestly, I'll look at Instagram and kind of see what other people are doing and sometimes they might have, like you know, a paper element in there or some kind of really cool vignette over top or something that gives me an idea. That kind of like starts me off of, okay, maybe I want it to look like this or you know, just kind of anything I see in my head as I'm reading the book. I go with Um and.
Speaker 1:I especially remember that, like blue hell scene that they had to switch, so you know, there might be a little bit of that mixed in with like the actual the demon scenes or like some leather from that corset stuff like that so I'll kind of take that and start like building the background and then, if I can find an image on pexels, it's funny because you'll type in like hot guy or like guy with brown hair, and then you never know what you're gonna get like.
Speaker 1:You might get a dad next to a toddler and you're like, uh, not really what I was thinking here. So, yeah, it takes some finessing, but if you're going on pinterest because you're just trying to use it, you know to um like for yourself.
Speaker 1:then you can always find literally exactly what you're looking for or didn't even know you needed it, and it does make it easier from there. But yeah, so Pinterest is kind of like the cheat hack, but then you're going to get your expectations so high that you're not going to be able to find that for pixels if you're trying to actually you know, post it out into the world.
Speaker 2:I think that's why I usually give up, because I go and I look and I'm so fussy and specific and I'm like can't find exactly what it is. But those are good tips I'll like. I'll check that out.
Speaker 1:I have a couple of author friends that they literally just decided to start drawing their own stuff Cause they're like I cannot even find it. So they taught themselves how to draw and they're like I'm just going to drop myself.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, that's so smart. That will not be me. I'm terrible.
Speaker 1:I can't draw, it's not my thing. I'll just keep like cropping Pinterest or or Pexels images and hoping for the best. Yeah, exactly what is your favorite personality trait when related to Callie and Jory?
Speaker 2:The thing I like about Callie and I think I wish I was more like this, because you know I really, I really love this about her is that she, when she gets an idea, she really sticks to her guns, like she really says no, this is the idea we have to go through, and she has a lot of doubt around it. She wonders if maybe she should relax, but she, she believes in herself enough to really fight for what she believes in and finds different ways to make it work. Like I think that's that's what I aspire to personally. Her, I mean like you can go too far and you know, just listen to your own ideas. But I think Callie's trying to make the balance of those two things.
Speaker 2:And then in Jory, what I really love about Jory is that he he's steeped in this male world that's got a lot of toxic elements and he had some of those toxic elements, but he is aware enough to know how to listen and to change.
Speaker 2:And that was something that I really wanted to explore was that he gets these sort of epiphanies where he's like oh my gosh, I'm the problem here, I'm the one that needs to fix it, I'm the one that needs to learn, and I think that's really a valuable trait in men yeah, oh yeah, in anyone. But you know, like I think, learning to listen to other people instead of just always expecting things to go the way that you've always done, mom, is a really valuable trait. So that's what I really love about Jory and it's essentially what makes him achieve love at the end is that he learns all that stuff and he's able to to accept love into his life in that way and I think there's one point where Jory says something like and I realized that I was just being crabby because I didn't want to do something new and I was like, yep, that's, that's about what it is.
Speaker 1:And he taught that in himself, cause he's like I'm literally being crabby because she's a female, because I don't want to learn how to talk to her, because it would be something new Because it's something new.
Speaker 2:And I think you know, I think that's a trait that we all sort of have it's very hard, especially when you get older, to do something new, like I never did social media, ever nothing. No part of social media was I ever in. But I had to start doing it because of the book and I was so bitter about it. I was like I don't want to learn this new thing. You know, even though it's not new at all, it's like not new, but it was new to me. And uh, it's really hard to learn something new because you feel stupid, you feel foolish, you feel like you're not smart enough to wrap your mind around it. You don't understand why it's so easy for everybody else. And Jory really has that moment where he's like I have to learn something new and I better learn something new, or I'm going to be left behind or I'm going to be the one who's the toxic one on this set, and that can't happen.
Speaker 1:And it's kind of crazy how Callie course corrects so well, like in the middle of a scene, because I can't imagine how hard that is, because she I know that Joy said like she makes notes and stuff but he'll make a suggestion and she'll go oh, let's just move the camera, let's just do this like with a pepper grinder or any of that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah yeah, and I think that's the beauty of working in TV too is that you have to be uber prepared. But if inspiration hits, then you have to be able to course correct and again that goes back to listening In that way you're listening to what's happening in the image or you're listening to what's going on with the actors and to be a good director you have to be constantly listening in that way.
Speaker 1:As we've kind of talked about, there are a lot of heavy topics in the book that are also you know they're balanced with more of the fun and the romance. So how do you kind of strike that balance of keeping it light and fun but then also having some of the depth and deeper messages that are prevalent in the book?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's really hard. It's really hard because it is a romantic comedy. It's supposed to be fun, it's supposed to be light, but I find that if you don't have something weighty to it, it doesn't have like it's too fluffy, like you'll forget about it. You know Like you want to be able to learn something or think about something that's different. You know so. But because of the romantic comedy, you don't want to get into huge trauma.
Speaker 2:So, like you know, both of them, callie and Jory, have a lot of difficulty in their background for various reasons, and you want to know that. So you understand why they're acting the way they are. Like, jory's a bit of a jerk at the beginning, but you need to know why, like, why is he a bit of a jerk? Well, he's going through this very difficult health scare that you know is connected to his mom, who died when he was young, and so I think anybody would be a jerk in that situation.
Speaker 2:You know why is Callie so controlling on the set, in terms of she feels like she needs to do everything? Well, it's because she her mom was had some mental issues and she had to look after her little sister and make sure that she and she and her mom and their sister ate. So you know, you have to kind of go back into those darker things to understand why they are the way they are and then they become real people. So you don't spend a ton of time on the trauma, because that's a different book, but you need it to to to really feel like these are real people and hopefully that does that.
Speaker 1:And not only does it kind of give you something to relate to, but I guess the other thing is or at least for me, with reading romance novels in general like sometimes I think seeing in both characters' heads or POVs as the story's going along almost kind of makes me a little bit more empathetic, maybe in real life, Like, oh okay, so if someone was acting like a jury, well, maybe they have something else in their past that you don't really think about, that they're walking in with that interaction that you kind of get to see in real time in a book, Because of course in real life, unfortunately you don't get to hear into. You know, everyone's thoughts.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think that's really smart. I think you know I love double POV books because it does give you that insight. I read single POV books but I don't love it because I do really want to hear from the other person's perspective, and usually it's the woman's perspective. I've read some male POV romances which I think are really fun, like cause they're a bit rare, they are, you know, I like the both because I like to, I like to hear what both of them are thinking, because you know so I heard this story on the radio about a mom of an autistic kid and she was in a grocery store and her kid was just having a meltdown in the aisles of the grocery store and she was trying to figure out.
Speaker 2:Like she was at her wit's end. She was trying to figure out how to, how to help her child. You know, calm down. And some random parent walked by and said get your kid under control, like it was her fault. And it was just this idea of like hey, random parent, you have no idea what is going on with this parent or this kid. Like, keep your judgy ways out of it. But if you took a moment, as you said, you know with Jory, if you took a moment to kind of think about what that person is going through, then maybe you won't be so harsh and judgy. That said, if a person's being a jerk, you don't have to put up with that. That's true, very true. You know, I do sometimes think like, as women, we think, oh, he's dark and moody because there's something deep going on, and sometimes they're just jerks. So you just have to, like you, take the moment to say, okay, maybe he's a jerk because of this and this, but that's not my responsibility to make him feel better.
Speaker 1:Very, very good point. At least Jory always walks himself back or apologizes and kind of makes it known to her that he does have redeeming qualities, instead of just keeping it all in his head yeah, yeah, and that's very important for him and I think that's that's one of his good traits too is that he takes responsibility for when he does something wrong and what song do you think best represents love camera action? And did you have something kind of on repeat as you were writing?
Speaker 2:Okay, so much like Pinterest boards, songs I'm very, very fussy about. I was a singer, I was a musician, so I have like very deep feelings about songs. So I didn't have I didn't have a song that was connected to it, but I list what I was listening to. It a lot was was Krung Ben radio. Do you know Krung Ben? Listening to it, a lot was. Was Krungben radio. Do you know Krungben? Do you know this band?
Speaker 2:Okay, they're like a, they're like a Thai funk band from Texas and they're very like they're very hip at the moment, like they're very cool and hip. And so it's like the. It's not very many lyrics, but it's like that kind of super groovy music and if you go on Spotify and listen to the radio, then you hear a whole bunch of stuff that's really groovy. So I was listening to a lot of that. But also I have to be listening to something when I'm writing or my mind will wander, but I'm so specific in that moment of what that could be. So sometimes it could be forest sounds, or it could be rain, or it could be campfires or whatever. And then sometimes it's like emo music or sometimes it's like that dark academia, classical or whatever. So I have to be listening to something that will occupy my mind enough to keep it on track, but not be so cool and fun that I'll just want to listen to the music.
Speaker 1:True, that makes sense, and it sounds like you tend to kind of lean towards things that are less lyric, heavy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the second I get into lyrics. Yeah, I can't, I can't. I just want to listen to the lyrics and start, you know, dancing or like crying or whatever, whatever the mood might be, I can see how it'd be hard to focus on the words coming out of you know the song and then also trying to type new words, and it's like wait a minute, like to type new words and it's like wait a minute, like your brain can't, yeah, yeah, I can't, I can't do.
Speaker 1:It makes sense. I know lauren roberts who um wrote, powerless, that whole trilogy.
Speaker 2:She listens to pirates of the caribbean, the soundtrack, like on repeat, because she can't listen to words either yeah, that makes sense, because that movie music is supposed to be background, like that's the whole point of it. So it it's. It's engaging enough enough, and plus she writes a lot of action stuff, that's true, so scores make sense, yeah, yeah. It's very invigorating in that way.
Speaker 1:Which romance tropes are included. We talked a little bit about enemies to lovers and how did you kind of put your own spin on them, because it's kind of hard to put your spin on all the tropes, oh.
Speaker 2:God, yeah, I know I love tropes. I love them, but it is sometimes hard to find what the spin is In love. Camera action, like I said, it's enemies to lovers. It's grumpy sunshine. It's also forced proximity because they have to work together. But they're also in a studio, which means they're working 12, 14, 16 hours a day with each other in this enclosed space that's completely cut off from the rest of the world. There's no time to do anything after work. They're even in the same building because they've been put up in the same condo building, because neither of them live in Atlanta. So there's a forced proximity thing, and that would be the twist.
Speaker 2:I think what twists on tropes come from the characters and the situations. So the twist on the force proximity instead of them being stuck in a cabin somewhere or you know, like on a ship, they're at work, like, and their work forces them to be together all the time. And it's just the nature of the work the enemies to lovers like. What do they fight about? The spin is they're fighting about the creativity of what's going on set. So their various approaches on how to make this show is why they spark and it's also, eventually, what makes them work together so well. So then, that dovetails together like that the reason for the enemies becomes the reason for the lovers, you know oh.
Speaker 1:I like that. It kind of they harmonize eventually. Just take a second.
Speaker 2:They harmonize eventually. Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of like you know the various when you look back into your character's trauma and the backgrounds. It's usually dovetails where they're sort of learning the same thing. And with Callie and Jory it's about letting go of control. So Jory has to let go of control that he can't protect people from his health scare and that he shouldn't be protecting people. He should be bringing them closer to him. And Callie's always controlling everything because she's always had to control everything. So, yeah, they generally dovetail and that's how you get your spin on the tropes. I think that Grumpy Sunshine is just Grumpy Sunshine and that's how you get your spin on the tropes.
Speaker 1:I think the grumpy sunshine is just grumpy sunshine there really are. Yeah, that's one that you can't really mix up. But I like, on the forced proximity, that it's the same workplace. That's my favorite kind, versus like one cabin or one bed. I like the forced workplace or like they're in a road trip or something, where they're like stuck together and they have to interact, whether they like each other or not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I love, I love the forced proximity. Is there any tropes that you don't like? I'm always interested in this question.
Speaker 1:I don't like accidental pregnancy. Um, I really don't. Yeah, I don't. I mean, I know there aren't a lot of people that like it, but again it's kind of like I don't. An author can change my mind. So even though I don't love a couple of them, like second chance, I've been kind of iffy on um. I didn't get it for a while and I would read it and be like why would you ever give him another chance? Like he already proved that he can't handle you. Why would you go back? But, uh, books like the ex-fows by Jessica Joyce or um, I'm trying to think of another really writing that down second chance, oh yeah, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:Jessica Joyce, whoo, her banter is like next level. But anyway, yeah, that one man that changed my mind, that honestly kind of changed my mind on second chance. Oh, even, uh, lila Sage, wild and Wrangled, that one is also Second Chance and it also changed my mind. So you know, second Chance is not my favorite. Accidental Pregnancy is not my favorite. Um, depends on the age gap. I'm a little bit iffy. I think I don't love whenever he's older and she's younger, because I just feel like that's been done so many times that I'm a little bit like okay, I roll, sure, whatever.
Speaker 1:But again, it depends on how big it is and if it really affects them or not. That kind of thing. I'm trying to think if there's any others that I don't love. Um, marriage of convenience hasn't been my favorite but there are a couple that have changed my mind.
Speaker 2:Okay, what don't you like about marriage of convenience? I?
Speaker 1:just feel like most of the time the reason why they're getting in the marriage is kind of bland and it might be like more of a fake dating reason than a marriage reason. But you know, for some reason there's some like goofy random thing that escalates it to marriage of convenience versus just fake dating. So I feel like half the time marriage of convenience probably could have just been fake dating, and then I would have liked it better because it's like.
Speaker 1:I don't know the thought of you agree to this and you don't know this person and you're literally bound by marriage to them, versus just you're fake dating them. You might not like them for now, and then your feelings are going to change, so I think that's kind of what stops me a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think marriage convenience generally only works in historicals because that was like a fact that happened all the time, whereas you know contemporary, sometimes you see it with mob stories and I'm like really you know, I'm like okay, but yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 2:I I don't love second chance romances because I find them really sad, like I don't like how they've broken up. Sometimes it's because of their parents or there's some sort of thing going on with society and they wasted all this time they could have been together and then they have the second chance. So I find it a bit too hard on my heart to deal with the time that has been lost. But I was speaking to someone the other day and they said but you know, when second chance romance really works is when the characters have changed so that they now can accept the love that was there. So they've had to go through this journey in order to to become better, more mature people so that they could actually have a love in their life. And I was like, oh okay, all right.
Speaker 1:That could work Well, now that you say that the ex-files and Wild and Wrangled do a really great job of that. So that makes sense, that makes more sense of why I liked those a little bit better. All right Cool. Which tropes are your favorite?
Speaker 2:Well, enemies to lovers. It's a bit boring, everybody loves that, but enemies to lovers Really good. I love. Opposites attract. I'm like a little bit out on friends to lovers. That's my favorite.
Speaker 1:Is it I?
Speaker 2:sometimes see it work really well and sometimes I'm a little bit like. What I find is often it's just one person's pining after the other and they just haven't noticed yet, but I do like that one. Yeah, I think those. What about you? What are your favorites?
Speaker 1:Friends to lovers. Specifically, I love childhood friends to lovers because I feel like that's where it makes the most sense. Yeah, cause most of the time they're just nervous because that's not what they've known but they've loved each other. Basically the whole time they just felt like they're kind of too far gone to make a move. So that you know like I feel like that one makes the most sense. But it's hard to find good friends to lovers, like really, really hard.
Speaker 1:I feel like I spend yeah most of my time trying to fight them. And then you know when it hits yeah, it hits um, and then I do love enemies to lovers of course too and then forced proximity and fake dating are probably my other two other two favorites that are just kind of they're just good, like if, if it has one of those four, it's, it's probably I'm gonna like it. Yeah, I, I has one of those four, it's probably I'm going to like it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do like Marriage of Convenience when it's historical or sci-fi. Like it does work in sci-fi too, because it's the same thing. It's like a prince needs to marry somebody yeah.
Speaker 1:Suspension of disbelief is easier in a sci-fi, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's way easier and so it's kind of fun because they're getting to know each other. But there's usually some sort of intrigue going on and then you have to wonder if they're sleeping together and how that's going to work. Like the Duchess deal is a marriage of convenience and it's set up really, really well. Like the Duke needs a wife and she needs to get out of poverty, so they're both very practical about it, but there's just an instant chemistry between them both and it's really fun.
Speaker 1:Tropes are the best. They are the best. I love them. They're fun to talk about.
Speaker 2:They're fun to talk about.
Speaker 1:yeah, Is there anything else that you would like readers to know?
Speaker 2:I don't know. I'm very curious about what people always pick up from the book, like what intrigues them, like what I sometimes ask what they didn't like about it, if I trust them to make a understood, like an understanding, you know, critique, and so I'm always kind of curious about that like, and what people pick up on is so interesting, like what their favorite scene was or what they thought seen what scene worked. So I'm always curious about that. So if anybody wants to contact me and tell me that stuff, like have at it. I'm a. I'm on Insta and on Tik TOK at author Noelle Stark and yeah, like that's, I'm always interested. Like you clearly read the book, like people. Sometimes I come onto podcasts and the people haven't read the book and that's cool because it takes time to read books. But like I'll ask you what was the? What was the thing that you thought was interesting in the book?
Speaker 1:Like that you wasn't, that you weren't expecting maybe I feel like I kind of wrote Jory off a little bit in the beginning. I was like I don't like him, I don't like him, and then I wasn't expecting him to change my mind. To be honest, I was like I don't know about him and then, and then he kind of slowly did, but he was growing in a really subtle slow way, which I liked. Cause if it hit me over the head with like I had a magical epiphany, then I would be like maybe not, but yeah, I, jory probably kind of came out of left field and surprised me the most, cause I like Kelly from the jump, but it was Jory that I already knew. I'm like I don't know about him, I don't, I don't know.
Speaker 2:And you're not in the minority there. Like it's really interesting to me, a lot of people were like didn't like Jory off the top, and I was thinking about that, like what does that mean? And would I change anything? And you know, maybe I might soften them a bit off the top, but the thing is with enemies to lovers. You need to read, they have to.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:So you have to know why Callie doesn't like him. Like often I read enemies to lovers and I'm like they're just kind of being childish with each other, like that's really all that's going on. Or, you know, their families are fighting. So it's like a Romeo and Juliet situation. But with enemies to lovers you have to show exactly why, why there is conflict there. And so I kind of took a risk to make Jory hard to be with, because that and you know, like a lot of people on set are hard to be with. But then you know, I was like okay, but he has to make this journey so that he's more redeemable.
Speaker 2:And when, when I do bring Jory back in the second book and he sort of becomes friends with Paolo because he's also kind of a jerk to Paolo, right, like yeah, he writes him off instantly. Jory writes Paolo off instantly, much like readers might write Jory off like instantly. And Jory begins to think, oh my God, am I wrong? Like should I not have written him off? Like was I missing something here? And so then his journey. I'm glad that it was subtle, because it was meant to be subtle, so that it didn't feel like it was this sudden thing, like you said, like it was an epiphany that came out of nowhere, because then you wouldn't believe it, right?
Speaker 1:yeah so yeah, you're not in the minority there well, I mean at least with jory, like at least we get his perspective the whole time. So we know that, even though, like it's understandable why callie perceives him the way that she does, because obviously his actions, like whenever he um, this really isn't a spoiler, but whenever he doesn't say something and just lets it slide and everyone else on the crew insinuates it as one way and kind of lets Callie take the fall for something that really wasn't her, then it makes sense why she wouldn't like him for doing things like that. But we know at least his inner thoughts and feelings, so we know that he's feeling guilty about it and so it makes it easier for him to be redeemed. Yeah, versus, if I didn't have that perspective, I'd be like, yeah, I just I can't get over it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, and he does feel guilty about it and he's in a tough spot because if he comes out and says it was his fault for doing this thing, then he would lose the chance of the work opportunity that he is being offered. So he's balancing this thing of doing the right thing but also getting the job opportunity that he wants and he's like, okay, well, what's the right thing to do? It doesn't take him. I think it doesn't take him too long to come to the understanding of what the right thing is to do. But I think it doesn't take them too long to come to the understanding of what the right thing is to do.
Speaker 2:But I think it feels long because it's like I really love writing scenes that take over, or like lots of stuff what takes over an entire day. So I might write three or four chapters that just happen in one day and it feels like it's been weeks because so much has been gone on and then the person understands what they should do, but it's at the end of the day, but it's at like four chapters later, you know. So it's interesting just to see that, as a writer, like people, like your reaction and what that might change in how I deal with characters later. So that's the value of hearing what people think.
Speaker 1:True, that makes sense, that it would make it easier, and especially going into paulo and talia's book, then that way you know, you kind of know moving forward and when.
Speaker 2:When that book starts, you know paulo's sort of already hot, like he's beginning on his epiphany because he's had, he's been a jerk in the book before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so how that went.
Speaker 2:It didn't work well it didn't work well for him. It doesn't. Usually it's just like don't a jerk.
Speaker 1:That should be a life motto on a bumper sticker.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think that's fair for anyone.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much for your time today. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2:It was really fun. And it was really fun talking about romance with a fellow romance lover.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, as you can tell by my bookshelf, I read it a decent amount.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's great, and you have a Catherine center book back there.
Speaker 1:Yes, oh, I have a Catherine center section. I have her entire back list. I have read all of her books.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. Okay, I better get on that then.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I can recommend a couple.
Speaker 2:Okay, Like when we get off line. I want to on here that's it for today.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to where I left off a bookish podcast. You can visit noelle's site and follow her on social media, which will be linked in the show notes, and, of course, you can purchase her novel anywhere books are sold.