Where I Left Off
Welcome to Where I Left Off, a bookish podcast. I'm your host, Kristen Bahls. Join me to hear my recommendations of a mix of young adult, new adult, romance, mystery, and thriller novels.
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Where I Left Off
The Boards Between Us with Author Cassandra Moll
Thanks to author Cassandra Moll for coming back to talk about her newest release, a hockey romance called The Boards Between Us.
- Purchase The Boards Between Us (on KU).
- Purchase Daring Destiny (on KU).
- Purchase Beautifully Broken (on KU).
- Follow Cassandra on Instagram.
- Cassandra's Website.
For links to the books discussed in this episode, click the link here to take you to the Google Doc to view the list.
For episode feedback, future reading and author recommendations, you can text the podcast by clicking the "Send us a message button" above.
For more, follow along on Instagram @whereileftoffpod.
Welcome back. I'm Kristen Balls and you're listening to when I Left Off a bookish podcast and today I'm joined by the author of Beautifully Broken Daring Destiny, cassandra Mall, and we are talking about her upcoming release, the Boards Between Us, thank you for coming back.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, Thank you for having me. I'm so excited. We talked about this last time like, oh, if you ever do end up doing hockey romance, you have to come back. And here I am.
Speaker 1:And we didn't talk that long ago for your debut, and now this is book three. So how have you been with this really rapid release schedule?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's actually just like pure chaos. I like to stay busy and when I do something it's like 110%, like to a fault sometimes, where, like, I need to remind myself you're in control of this, but you're like stressed about it, you know. So, yeah, so like, the Beautifully Broken came out in November, daring Destiny came out in March those were a little bit shorter, though and they kind of you know they, they went together so and it was just the two of them, so I wanted them to kind of come out relatively close.
Speaker 2:And then the boards between us, I think, because it was new, I just like was really excited about it and I wanted it to kind of hit at like summertime, well, end of Stanley cup, end of like the season in the summer, and then, like obviously, once it's kind of been out for a little bit, hockey season starts back up. So it's like a good, you know, it's a good like balance of time and yeah, it's been fast. But my problem now is like do I maintain that schedule or force myself to, or you know where do I land with that?
Speaker 1:Oh, that was so hard. So whenever you wrote Beautifully Broken and Daring Destiny, did you write Daring Destiny like already have it written before you released Beautifully Broken so you could put them out? Or did you just write that fast?
Speaker 2:No, I just wrote that fast. So wow, I will say beautifully broken. We talked about this before. I mean, I think I finished it like a month before release. I had no idea what I was doing, Didn't do art creators, no one read it, but like my mom and my best friend like truly shoved it into the world and like that was it. So by the time, like in between kind of, when I finished that one and get pushing it out into the world because I wasn't doing all of those other things, I was already writing the next one. So by you know, January or February, that was done. So then I had a March release.
Speaker 2:I'm like someone who I don't like to talk about, the next not talk about. I don't mind like chatting, but I don't like to like throw like release or teasers and things like that out into the world until it's done. I don't know if it's like I think there's bad juju or like I just am like anxious about it. So I always try and have the next one pretty much ready by the end of the you know that, the one that's coming out. So, like the boards between us about July 8th, I already have like a significant amount of the next one ready, so that like kind of when the boards between us fizzles out a little bit, it'll be done and I'll feel okay to talk about the next one, Does that?
Speaker 1:make sense. Yes, yes, that makes sense.
Speaker 2:So I think that's where I get the pressure. But yeah, to answer your question, I was already writing it, but it did happen pretty fast.
Speaker 1:That's crazy. Okay, before I get into the second book in the hockey series, I just have to ask so on, beautifully Broken, since you didn't do arcs or pre-orders or anything like that, do you regret not doing that in the end, or are you glad that you just got it out and kind of got yourself on that schedule, because I feel like so many authors put so much pressure to have all of that stuff, but does it, does it actually really matter that much?
Speaker 2:So I'm sure for some people it does. I think one of these like I think the way you do it, how you do it, how much you invest in it back, I mean I'm sure it all plays a factor, but I was actually just talking to a friend about this a factor, but I was actually just talking to a friend about this. I didn't do a single thing for Beautifully Broken. I did arcs for Daring Destiny. I mean they have basically the same amount of reviews. They have, you know, basically the same rating and honestly, like I'm doing arcs, obviously for the boards between us, but I wouldn't hate not doing them.
Speaker 2:I I kind of feel like, especially if you're just throwing hundreds of arcs out there, I don't really see personally like the, the results that like I might be looking for, having talked to like a lot of authors that have done that. Yeah, I mean I guess I I would see a difference in terms of like hype before the book, so like no arc readers meant no one had read it to help me. Kind of like hype before the book, so like no arc readers meant no one had read it to help me, kind of like promote it.
Speaker 2:And as much as like I love my arc readers and they do like such a great job in terms of like, sales and things like that, I don't know that it has mattered that much. I also, though I'm pretty like I like to cap the amount that I have. I keep it, you know, comfortable for me, cause I do it all myself and I like, I bet, everyone I make sure that they're like a person who would read my book. So maybe I'm not the one to ask in terms of like someone doing hundreds and hundreds of arcs. I'm sure that they would get different results, but the way that I like to do it anyway, I don't know that I see a huge difference.
Speaker 1:Well, that's encouraging to hear that. Really, it just depends on the book and the author. It's not necessarily a arcs are the be all, end, all of everything, and if you don't have them, you're just, you're sunk.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, and I mean coming from me, who like obviously is not super famous or successful or anything like that. But yeah, I think it kind of takes the pressure off you a little bit If you feel like, oh my God, I don't have arcs and I don't have time and I don't have the money to have someone else manage it, but I don't want to manage it. You know, I think you would be okay. I mean, I literally threw my first book into the world at three weeks before I published it and I think it's doing well for me in my little corner of the world. So yeah, I think it could go either way.
Speaker 1:And on book two in the hockey series, I have to know. Okay, a, I was going to ask is it Liam's book, is it Brooke's book? Or when I was reading I was kind of thinking that maybe there was like a love triangle with Drew, brooke and Liam where maybe she thought she wanted Drew but then she actually realized she wanted Liam. I don't know, I was just wow, I actually love that idea.
Speaker 2:That would have been like a curve ball, which I love. No, it is Brooke's book, not with Liam. The person that she ends up with, though, is no stranger, but it's not Liam, no, I mean, I think you could probably decipher that it would be her and Drew. Almost every person that I had read it, like the first couple people, were like oh so Brooke and Liam obviously, like we'll have a book, and I am one who like oh so you think it's Brooke and Liam? Okay, I'm not going to do Brooke and Liam. You know, like I like a little bit of a curve ball. Obviously drew, and Brooke there's like some inklings in there, so it's not too far into left field, but yeah, we're sticking with the two hockey, so, like Drew's book is staying with Brooke, and then Liam will have his own, and it'll kind of shift into baseball.
Speaker 1:Nice, okay, cause as soon as I realized that Liam was a single dad, I was like so he has to have a book, right he does.
Speaker 2:He has his book, he'll be third, he'll. He'll be after this one. I actually just this is like so TMI, but I was in the shower and had like a first scene in my brain for Liam's book and so I actually did write it, but I mean, as a writer, you know that it's the most random place. So I actually did just write the first like 300 words of his book, but no, not till the next one.
Speaker 1:And you know, something kind of happens, not not spoiling the boards between us, but something kind of happens with Drew that made me think, okay, how, how is he going to get out of this? So is it going to be dual POV? Are we going to get any kind of background and like what was going through drew's head when he made some decisions that he made?
Speaker 2:some things that might have maybe happened. Yes, it is dual point of view. And you, you do get that backstory. I think a lot of people are going to assume that the book's going to be. People are going to assume that the book's going to be one way, based on what happens and kind of my like angsty writing that I typically include, but it's not so much again, kind of I don't like to do what everyone assumes. It's not necessarily fully in that direction. So you do get the backstory, but you get a lot more of Drew than just that one hiccup also.
Speaker 1:Cool Cause I love angsty hockey. I've now realized from reading angsty hockey that that's like a whole sub genre that I didn't realize existed, but it's really, really fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah the broody hockey player. Gotta love them.
Speaker 1:I forgot to ask you what are you currently reading right now?
Speaker 2:Oh, my gosh Of course, the most important question, of course. Uh well, as you know, doing all of this doesn't leave that much time for real reading. I call it real reading like in terms of just like grabbing a book off my shelf, um, but I just finished my last read of Kelly Cook's A Heart on a Sleeve. It's her like. I beta read for her. That one comes out in August. It's a little like magical realism, kind of cozy fall book. So so good. And just before we hopped on here, court comb I don't know if you've, I think you've talked to her actually yeah, she's been on yep yeah so her third book.
Speaker 2:She's like on her way so I'm gonna alpha read that one, like just what she has so far. Next um, hopefully she doesn't care that I gave that away which is pretty open, uh so yeah, so just author friends and their books, but you know I just love them more than pulling a book off my shelf. I think too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it does mean more. How have you kept up with their release? I feel like both of them have had a lot of really quick releases. I'm trying to keep up with everyone. How do you keep up with all of your author friends books?
Speaker 2:Well, it's funny because it kind of just be like if you're good, you know close enough to that person, you kind of just like it becomes part of your life too. Like you know, kelly Cook and I are really close, so oftentimes I'm like, okay, well, when are we revealing your?
Speaker 1:your title or when are we?
Speaker 2:you know, and like court just sent me like the first third of her book. So like I'm kind of doing it with her, lindsay, my friend, like she same thing, you know, you kind of go through it with her. It's a lot to keep up with, but it's just, it's more like day to day. You know, like it's not so much like boom drop, there's a book. Boom, it's like okay, well, like I read that, you know, a week ago, or I'm helping you prep that or whatever. It's fun. It's like a. It's like a different kind of book club. It's your own book club.
Speaker 1:That's true. Now that you say that, yeah, it's not just a full book, it's like little pieces and parts, and I'm sure that once you've at least like once they've sent you random chapters, even if you're reading the book over in its entirety, it's easier to keep up with it because you've already kind of you know read it, so you're going to read it faster on the second pass, versus like a completely new series that you've dived into from the start.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure. And, like you know, half the time too, like I'm getting voice memos like, hey, what do you think if I did this? Or I'm sending voice memos like what name do you like best for? Like you're, you know, you're like building the pieces bit by bit too. So once you actually do read the story, you're like, oh, that's the guy we talked about, oh, that's why you asked that question, you know. So you're kind of like a passenger seat in the passenger seat of like them writing the story.
Speaker 1:And how did you find Kelly and Court and all of your author friends that you feel close enough that you can kind of like alpha read and beta read their books and stuff?
Speaker 2:Yeah, honestly, just Instagram, which is like wild. It's such a love hate, isn't it? Like it makes me want to go crazy sometimes, but I truly do have Instagram to thank for like all of these friends that I just feel like are like real life besties now. Yeah, we just met on there Like Kelly, we always tell the story that I like slid into her DMS, I guess, and talk like she like posted something and I was like joking or like teasing her about it, and she like left me on red and I was like, oh, it's tough out there, you know.
Speaker 2:And then like something else happened and I'm the type like I like to hype everyone up. I like I'm very blunt. If I like what you have or like I think it's funny, I'll just tell you like everyone loves a good compliment, right? So, like I slid back in, you know like a couple more times and eventually she bit took you long enough. Now, yeah, so just just mutual stuff, and especially once you know, like once you read someone's book and they give you you know, or someone reads your book and you get good feedback and they're honest and they're polite and they're nice about things, and then you kind of like get to see them as a person too, not just like a beta reader, and then you kind of become more friends, true, yeah, nice is definitely the key oh my gosh, I've had some beta readers that are so mean Me too and it's not even like, like, it's not even you know, like I love honesty.
Speaker 2:Please tell me if you hate something, especially in the beta stage, right, Because like I can change it. But sometimes I'm like man, it's not what you said, it's how you said it, you know.
Speaker 1:It can make you cry a little bit for a second. I mean especially just because it's so close to you and you know, especially with this book and hockey and everything, yeah, I can understand how that would be really really tough to hear any feedback, even no matter how it is just at first getting used to that.
Speaker 2:No, for sure. It's like someone like being mean to your kids Like you're, like you don't like Levi's, you know this like how like he's perfect. So, yeah, I having them give like constructive, polite, honest feedback definitely shows you like who they are as a real person too, you know, and then you kind of just you get closer.
Speaker 1:So for any listener that wants to be a beta reader, maybe throw like one or two compliments in there with your, with your critiques, or like an emoji or something you know. Yeah, yeah, Just a couple of things.
Speaker 2:It doesn't have to be all, like you know, super fluffy, but just just add a couple of things so we're not heartbroken For sure, or even just like the way you know, like hey, maybe think about changing this, or like this makes me confused, because sometimes it's like I hate this part and you're like hold on, it's like that's not even helpful, you know, or like my friend Lindsay's, so good at like just dropping an emoji, you know, like a drool emoji.
Speaker 2:If it's like a like a smutty zine or like a heart emoji or something, you know, it's just like okay, and then you can kind of take a couple more hits because it like, keeps you going.
Speaker 1:I agree. Any feedback I think I've provided anyone on a book always starts with like maybe or I think you should, or have you considered doing this just so? That way it's not. You know, like you said, I hate this part. And then you're like wait, whoa, whoa.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, and a big for sure. A big one for me, because I know everything's so like personal and you know everyone has their own opinion. I like to start with like this might just be me, but that line was confusing, or like this might be my opinion, but maybe make her say this instead of you know like, because everyone's different, Someone might love it and someone might hate it, so you saying like this is terrible is not actually true.
Speaker 1:Exactly, that just proves authors are the best beta readers because they know how it feels to get feedback.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, they do get it for sure.
Speaker 1:So, overall, what do you think has changed the most about your writing and or publishing process since book one?
Speaker 2:Honestly, not much. I had no idea what I was doing in the beginning. I still feel like I have no idea what I'm doing, and it's just because every story is so different. You know, like I didn't plot a blessed thing for Beautifully Broken Daring Destiny. I tried to plot the whole thing and it got so messed up because the characters just like took it where they may and I was so thrown. Same thing with the boards between us. Like I was like, oh, I'll like half plot it out and then, like you know, you look back at the outline, you're like that, none of that's, none of that's what actually came out.
Speaker 2:So, as far as writing, I mean honestly, not much good and bad, not much has changed. Yeah, publishing, just just, I think, like what we talked about, just like having more time doing the arcs, teasing things, you know, a little bit here and there, instead of just being like boom did another book, boom title drop, boom cover reveal. You know, but yeah, not too much. I mean, I think again, it's so personal for everyone that, like you just kind of get in your own groove.
Speaker 1:Whatever, whatever works for you is great. Exactly, exactly, I was going to say, and with this one it's the start of a new series. So I'm sure that's always hard, cause it probably feels like you're starting over completely. Um, and if you don't want to say, you don't have to, but do you know how many books are going to be in this series and the hockey series?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's supposed to be four. Um, and I say supposed to be because I'm writing the second one now and there's another character in it, like a side character, and I'm like they need a book. They need a book. Like I like laugh out loud every time I write their part and I I think I don't know I might either have to squeeze something in, or maybe like a novella, or maybe do like a second series with like kind of spin it, so that they're part of like another group of people. I'm not sure, but so far it's supposed to be four.
Speaker 1:Well, I like that you're open to expanding because you know, sometimes you don't want to say goodbye to the characters, and I mean especially with um, with Leah Bruner and Katie Bailey up here. They did um, the DC. Okay, so Leah wrote the DC Eagles hockey series. It's closed door hockey and it's four books.
Speaker 1:And then Katie is her friend and they decided to co-write a spin-off series with two of their characters and, like a legacy thing, I love it, and so one of the it was the son from the hockey series and then a daughter from the other author series and they put them together and like a legacy. So, you could totally do a spinoff of characters, throw an L Kennedy out there and do some kind of like legacy thing, and then you can just keep it going forever.
Speaker 2:Oh no, but seriously, and it's like half and half right, like to some. To some extent you're like I'm ready to move on. It's been a long time, you know, and other ways it's like I'm not ready to say goodbye. So, like a spinoff is a cool way of kind of having both.
Speaker 1:True, and you can have books in between. So you could, you know, branch out for a bit, but then come back to the characters if you miss them.
Speaker 2:Which is something I'm not good at Like in my mind I'm like this is four books. I have to do one, two, three, four. I'm just like a very ordered person like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but someone else was just saying that Cause I had an idea for something different and I was like, well, I'll get I guess I'll get to it four books from now, because you know I have three more of these to write. And they were like, well, why? I was like, huh, never thought of that. But yeah, I don't know. So I I do like to leave things open with Beautifully Broken. I didn't even know if there was going to be a second one. I didn't like I kind of set it up just in case, but like you weren't hanging off the edge of your seat, you know, in case, I decided to switch it. So yeah, I have no problem kind of switching gears, but I do have a tentative plan, I guess.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense, that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how about we? Sorry to go back, you know, I don't know if you want to share your writing but yours you said yours is in a series.
Speaker 1:Yes, it is a three book series, but it's going to have a novella that I'm working on with a group of friends, and so we're going to have like a novella collection and it just happens to kind of tie in to the series. So technically it'll be three and a half.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's awesome, Okay, very cool.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it'll be a series.
Speaker 2:We'll see if I like these characters that long, but no yeah, no, but it's funny because I actually said before I started the boards between us well, here we are. Um, after daring destiny, I was like my next book's gonna be a standalone, like because daring destiny was you know, you had to use it, was it was the same four characters, like it wasn't even just the two characters, same all of the same characters. And now I'm writing four with everyone that's included. So here you know, there we are with that. But I did. I do think like I love a good standalone too, in terms of like just one idea and run with it and that's it, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm really excited on book two to get Drew's perspective as a player, because I feel like it was nice getting a coach's perspective. But I think it'll be really interesting to see like that kind of on the ice, like POV.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah it's. It's funny. I actually was just saying like I'm surprised there's not more in it like what I've written so far. I mean, obviously there's tons of hockey in it, but with with Levi kind of like the premise was that he was coaching and Cooper was part of it, so like Levi kind of had to be there. You know, with the second book Drew is obviously a hockey player, but a lot of it is kind of his life outside of hockey and so he's not on the ice as much as I thought he would be, but it's still so much, I mean like in terms of like you know, locker room and facilities and like, like, even when he's not on the ice he's still a hockey player, you know. But yeah, it's definitely different. I think it's fun to switch from that Cause my husband's a hockey coach, so to kind of go from like what I get from him all the time to like huh, this is the other side, you know.
Speaker 1:So whenever you decided to write hockey, were you initially okay? So I've talked to a couple authors that if their husband played football or played any kind of professional sport, they're like so I'm not going to do that book. What made you decide to try hockey this time?
Speaker 2:yes, so I I did say, because he's a hockey coach, that I wasn't going to do hockey.
Speaker 2:But like I didn't want it to seem like I just took the easy way out, did hockey because Tyler plays hockey or, you know, coaches hockey and it's really big and whatever. But the characters just really talk to you as crazy, as crazy as that is, and so it wasn't really like a conscious decision, it was just like, oh, I have an idea and it happens to be hockey and so which I'm sure comes from you, kind of write what you know. But it wasn't like I was like all right, now I'm going to write a hockey romance. It was like here's the characters and they are in hockey.
Speaker 1:And you just happen to have a built-in proofreader to like check everything.
Speaker 2:Oh, he wants his name on that cover so bad as like a. He's like even just an asterisk, like right down, like right here, just like an asterisk, my name. He really did help me a lot so many times. He'd be like watching you know, like an NHL game or something commercial and be like can I ask you a question? Like I have like a blank in my manuscript, like to come back when he like wasn't busy. He really did help a lot.
Speaker 1:And then so with the opening scene of the boards between us. Did the scene first come to you whenever you started writing, or did you have to go back and work on it later?
Speaker 2:No. So that actually is like the first thing that I've written. I don't, I don't know that I've ever like gone back in one of the books. That was the first thing I wrote and it's funny because we talk about betas and this is not necessarily like a bad, a bad beta person. But a couple people thought that I should either cut it or make it a prologue because a lot of it gives a lot of Alex's backstory.
Speaker 2:I'm very glad I didn't do that and that's, like, you know, a piece of advice to authors like just because someone says to change something, like trust your gut. Even if multiple people say to change something, the story's yours. So if you don't like that, don't change it, mind you. I mean, I had probably eight people read it and, like two of them said this but yeah, cause a lot of people have talked about liking that part and like that, they really like get Alex right off the jump. So, yeah, it was the first thing I wrote and, believe it or not, a lot of people didn't love it, or a couple of people didn't love it, but I stuck to it. I thought it was important.
Speaker 1:That's funny, yeah, cause it really sets it from the jump, so you know exactly what's going on, instead of trying to like guess and piece stuff together.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I didn't want to focus too much on, like, nick and Alex's past when it's not about Nick and Alex, it's about Alex and Levi. But some people, like I said and they weren't it wasn't like they hated the scene, they just were like, well, if Nick isn't the MMC, why is he's in the first chapter? So much was kind of their thought process, which I also totally understand. But I didn't want Nick strug strung throughout the story. I wanted you to know what was going on from the, from the jump, like I said, and so that the rest of it could be focused on Alex and Levi. And I think it accomplished that. Whether or not that's everyone's cup of tea, I'm not sure, but it was mine, so I guess, like you said, it's her story.
Speaker 1:You can decide what you want to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just, I just feel like there's something about liking your story. You know like you could write the best book in the world, but if you changed everything about it that you personally liked, I mean, yeah, you might make money off of it because it might be the exact story that, like, everyone else wanted, or whatever, but do you even like it at your core? Is that like? Did you do you feel like it at your core? Is that like? Did you feel like it's still your story? Or did you take 20 other people's opinions and change everything about it? So I just feel like you really, at the end of the day, have to own it, like you have to feel like this is the way I wanted it to be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's your name on the cover.
Speaker 2:For sure, and again it might. Some people might think it would be better different ways. I'm not even talking about my specific book but, like you, know other stories. But if the author feels like their original idea was like so peace, you know, broken apart, what's the point?
Speaker 1:True, that's a good way to think about it. Yeah, I don't know, I'm smart sometimes With Alex and Levi. They're both very emotionally guarded, for good reason. Um, how did you approach kind of building their chemistry, even though a lot of it with them is like one step forward and two steps back?
Speaker 2:yeah. So I think it's kind of like the subtleties building that angst bit by bit, to the point where, like you, it's undeniable for them, like from their own perspective, because, like you said, it is one step forward, two steps back, one step forward to or you know whatever. Two steps forward, one step back. It's like inch by inch. But underneath all of that there's like this chemistry that's building and built to the point where, like it doesn't matter if you take 10 steps back, like like you're, that's going to explode. So I think, just like the subtleties, kind of like the banter, or like the look that he gives, or the comments she makes, or like the feeling she has, like those little tiny things just add up Doesn't need to be like one huge turning point, you know.
Speaker 1:So then, what do you feel kind of ultimately shifted them? Was there like one thing, even though it wasn't huge? Was there kind of like one thing that really started to turn them in the other direction?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean they there definitely were big moments right. So like there's this, their first kiss, like it's kind kind of like an effort moment, as we all say, and that definitely had caused a shift. But I personally think that was kind of like the tip of the iceberg. But Alex really had to like make that decision. I think her kind of having that moment of like I'm leaning in and if I'm doing it I'm all in, is what really switched for them. So it, the kiss obviously was part of it. But I don't even think it was like, oh, we kissed and now we're in love, you know, I think it was like she had to internally be okay with it and when she gave herself that permission it switched yeah, it wasn't just the flirting anymore, it wasn't the fact of her trepidation that he was somewhat close to cooper yeah, it was deciding.
Speaker 2:That makes sense yeah, it was like I, if I'm doing, if I'm doing this, I'm doing this and know, going all in and like giving herself permission to do that.
Speaker 1:And what is one detail from the book that you think that hockey fans in particular will appreciate but romance readers could miss?
Speaker 2:So it's so funny, because a lot of people were like there's a lot of hockey in this, and I'm like, yeah, that's the point. I mean I know some hockey romances, right. Like there's a stick on the cover and they call it a hockey. I get that and people love that and that's fine. But I mean, like hockey is what I know, so there is a lot of hockey in it. Um, but I did change, like I had more of those details, and I did change some of them, because a lot of people were a little confused. Um, like I think I had, like they did a celly instead of like a celebration, like that's so obvious to me what celly meant, but like six beta readers were like I don't know what that is. Um, there was one thing, though, that everyone didn't know what it was, and I left it anyways. It's when Cooper and Drew are playing chill that he says, like my chill game is top notch, which is just like NHL hockey.
Speaker 2:It's just like what the kids call it yeah and people are like I don't know what chill is, is that a game? And I'm like don't worry about it, don't worry about it. The the real, the reels will get it. You know, they'll understand. And I didn't think it was that big of a deal to know, if you didn't get it, you just assumed it was a game and you moved on.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that is hard to try to keep it kind of rudimentary enough to where everyone can understand. But then you know, for the true fans you get a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I also think it's funny because there's certain things in some hockey romances that like technically, if you Google them, maybe it comes up under hockey, but like that's not really what hockey players do or say. You know, like my husband, who coaches hockey and has played hockey his whole life, would be like what is that? Because it's it's, it's almost like um, like conversational language versus like formal language, and so I think a lot of mine because I'm just like around it all the time is more conversational hockey language and so, yeah, you kind of have to like pick and choose, but I kept a couple of things in there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense. It's kind of fun to learn some of some of that kind of on the other side, Cause I mean if you watch like interviews and stuff, you might get some of that, but not necessarily if you're just like watching a game or going to a game or just reading hockey romances, yeah exactly, and I kind of like that, like oh, what's that, you know, like where it kind of makes you like think a little bit.
Speaker 2:So just for fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, there've been so many times where I will like Google something, cause I'm like wait a minute, wait, what does that mean, especially if it's a sport that I don't know a lot about initially? Then you learn a little bit more and you get to Google things and you're like, oh okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, and like there's a book that uses like the word kit for like hockey gear. That's like not a thing like that. Like my husband was like I've never heard of it, and here it's like I'm pretty sure that's what they call it, like overseas and so again, even that like technically, but like over here, I think like soccer players use it more. So it's like it depends on where the author's from and like where you know where they've learned the things that they know. So, yeah, it's. It's again, it's like their own little personal piece and if they changed it it wouldn't be theirs anymore.
Speaker 1:So that's a really interesting point. I never would have thought of that, but it would have mattered regionally. But it totally makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cause I was like wait a second, I never heard of that. And then I asked my husband. He was like I have no idea what you're talking about, which is crazy because he's been you and so we looked it up and everything that came up with soccer. But then if you type in like UK I think it was, I don't even remember, I could be completely wrong, but it came up like over there.
Speaker 1:So it yeah, it's funny how it you, it depends. It's honestly also kind of like if, um, if someone, it's super specific example but if someone were from Texas, not from Texas, and they put their book in Texas. There's so many things that, like we say, that no one else would understand.
Speaker 1:And I don't even know how you would put it into a book, like everyone says they're from Dallas, even if they're not really from Dallas. And so if you say I'm from Dallas and someone's like okay, where are you actually from? And they're like oh cool, I'm from here, here, here. But you know, you wouldn't know that if you just say I'm from Dallas, then everyone's not thinking that you actually mean like real Dallas.
Speaker 2:Real. Oh, that's so funny. I mean same thing, Like I'm not from Philly but I'm right outside of Philly, and same thing. There are certain things that you say, or you know whatever, and people are like huh, you're like, nevermind, you don't get it.
Speaker 1:That is really hard to keep all that, all that together. So did you use, like actual game footage or interviews for inspiration, or did you keep everything really fictional? And how did you pick your team name?
Speaker 2:So I actually have this problem where I forget that I am writing fiction and that things can be fictional and so I want everything to be like super realistic. And you know, like to the point where I'm like I'm asking my husband like well, if he hit the puck here, would it really bounce off of that board? Or, and he was like dude, just write it, you know. So a lot of it is very true, very real. Um, I watched like YouTube tours of like facilities and, you know, took notes, like I actually had him reach out to like people he knows to see if I could get into like professional facilities. It didn't work out but I was like I need research.
Speaker 2:Um, so most of it is very real. Um, there are parts where I was like, okay, I have to make this fiction. So here we go. And then the team name I actually don't remember how. I think, honestly, I was probably just googling like sports names and it stuck out to me. I liked that. So it's golden city, it's supposed to be golden, as in like you know, like bright and sunrise and something like like the sun, and so I think like the flames kind of gave that off to me like the golden flames.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know how like something just feels right, like a character name or something you're like, yeah, that's it it was always supposed to be that way, yeah, yeah, exactly, because you can't use real team names, right, because they're trademarked.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I couldn't there. Well, there are like the Calgary flames, but I can't say that like flames is not trademarked because it's so generic. But I don't know if maybe let's say like the flyers, like flyers are like that's not a thing. Like flames are obviously a thing. But you can, you can use team names. You just can't put it as like. I couldn't say like the Calgary Flames, yeah, got it like together, okay, yeah, and I think it's the same with like colleges and stuff too because all that trademark copyright stuff would be a really fun battle.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh oh my gosh, I know, and then. But then you have to like, think of, like teams that they play, and and make sure that you don't duplicate, unless you mean to duplicate. It's a lot. I have like a running google list that's smart.
Speaker 1:And now you have to convince, uh, your other author friends to write hockey romances and then just have their teams play your teams and then there you go.
Speaker 2:You don't have to come up with names anymore someone else just said that today they're like they'll just play the golden city plane and I actually don't know if anyone picked up on it, but I have them going to grand Oaks, which is the same city that Ronan bought his pizza shop in, and, daring destiny, I didn't catch that. Oh, wow, okay, yeah, and Alex and Cooper. Actually, when they're in the hotel, alex is like I heard there's a really cool pizza place nearby and so like in my head that's Ronan's Pizza Shop. So like I have a little bit of that going on. Whether or not anyone else will pick up on it I don't know, but it is the same.
Speaker 1:That's fun. Yeah, I tend to. I tend to pick up on those kinds of things If I'm reading a physical copy over um oh for sure Over a Kindle copy, so that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Well, and especially in the same series like daring destiny is not even part of this, but for me it made sense.
Speaker 1:Oh, I like that. That's so cool. That's a little invisible string, A little. A little Easter.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Um, what is your favorite kind of trope to write within hockey romance or just romance in general, like grumpy sunshine, fake dating, friends to lovers, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:So my favorite is forced proximity. I'm like obsessed. I think it's because of that, like you have to have it. You know, um, which this book has. I wouldn't say it's like one of its main tropes, but I mean they're forced to be in the same place. I think, as far as hockey romance goes now that I'm just like doing my second one and I write it in almost everything else too. But it's different worlds, like just two totally different people coming together. Like I feel like I I rarely write like someone from this town and another girl from this town. You know it's like there's you have NHL coach, single mom. Like you know he's a millionaire, she is not kind of thing. And then obviously the second book, it's Brooks a waitress and Drew's yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:So in some senses they're always like kind of opposite.
Speaker 1:That's a really cool way to think about it. Yeah, yeah, I like it. That's really unique. I like that. Um, if you could expand one scene into kind of like a full bonus chapter, which one do you think it would be in? Why? In the boards between us?
Speaker 2:so I'm sure I could come up with a couple, but the first thing that comes to mind is at the very end, the last chapter, before the epilogue.
Speaker 2:They're at the gala for spark the flame, which is kind of like the culminating event for cooper, even like being involved with the flames, and cooper is set to like give a speech, but we don't see it it's.
Speaker 2:You know, levi is like introducing everything and then him and Alex kind of go off and then, like off page, they come back and there's the speech. I think I would write what that speech is, because I feel like Cooper is such he's such a small technically, like a small role, but also huge, like he's the reason that they're even together, that they were put in the same place. Obviously he's Alex's pride and joy and he's like such a cute kid. I just think it would be nice to hear his kind of reflection on the whole thing, and I've actually gotten asked that a few times, like can you make a you know, a bonus chapter or can you put it out at some point? So maybe I will. That would be like a fun, maybe like anniversary thing to do. I actually did toy with putting it in there too, but I went against it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense for the pacing.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, and I? I didn't want to end the story on Cooper. You know it's hard. It's a love story, so like as much as it would be really cool and he's important, I didn't want to end it with a 12 year old kid. I wanted to end it with the lovers.
Speaker 1:So is creating a fictional kid really difficult.
Speaker 2:Not for me, because, uh, my, his, like, my background is in teaching and so I was around kids 24, seven, um, I also have three of them, so it's not that hard. Sometimes it's hard to write one. That's not my kid's age, because I like, naturally, I have three little girls, five, four and two. So I naturally want them to like, be this, like really young little. And you know, so I have a friend who has a nine-year-old, and Kelly has children, and you know other friends that have children, and so I'm like hey, you're, you know your kid's like 12. Can you read this and tell me if it's something they would say? So that's a little hard sometimes, but as far as actually writing the kid itself, no, it's, it comes pretty naturally.
Speaker 1:And is there anything that you would like readers to know about the boards between us? No, I mean, it comes out.
Speaker 2:July 8th. Right now it's open for pre-order and I have them, so, like people are buying them and getting them already, which is so exciting. Yeah, I just I love them. This is probably like I know I say every book's my favorite book, but it means a lot to me because of, like, the whole world that they're in. So it means a lot to me in a different way than the other books maybe did, and I have a new discreet cover. I don't know if you saw it. I'm going to have it here somewhere. So I have not that listeners can necessarily see this, but I have, like, the character cover and the discreet cover now. So that's so exciting, because I didn't do that with my last book.
Speaker 1:What made you decide to do the discreet cover?
Speaker 2:I think because I knew this was going to be a series like Beautifully Broken. I didn't even know if I was going to do another one, Daring Destiny. I knew it was the end. I just love when books have the option. You know, if you really love it, you grab both. If you don't love the characters, you grab the discreet. If you, you know, love the characters, you grab the characters. So I just wanted, I just wanted options, and even for me just to like this four book series is like a big deal, I feel like. So I just wanted to do something different.
Speaker 1:So all four books are going to have discrete cover options.
Speaker 2:Yes, so all of them will have the characters that are similar, like same artist and everything for this one, and then the discreets will all kind of go together with their character, like the colors and stuff, but they'll all be more this style.
Speaker 1:Nice, Yay, that's really exciting. Yeah, I'm excited. Thank you for being on and that's it for today. Thanks for listening to when I Left Off a bookish podcast. You can sign up for Cassandra's newsletter, purchase her novel and purchase all of her novels in the links through the show notes. You.