Where I Left Off

The Sherlock Society Hurricane Heist with Author James Ponti

• Kristen Bahls • Season 2 • Episode 50

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Thanks to Author James Ponti and the team at Simon & Schuster. In this episode, we talk about the newest release The Sherlock Society series, Hurricane Heist. 

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For links to the books discussed in this episode, click the link here to take you to the Google Doc to view the list.

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For more, follow along on Instagram @whereileftoffpod.

Speaker 1:

Welcome back. I'm Kristen Balls and you're listening to when I Left Off a bookish podcast, and today I'm joined by New York Times bestselling author James Ponte, who you probably know from the Dead City trilogy, the Frame series, city Spy series, and today we're talking about the second book in the Sherlock Society series, spiritane Heist. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for having me. It's really exciting. You know, in the time before the book comes out you're always nervous. You're hoping that it's being well-received and all like that. So it's nice to get to talk about it and work out some of those nerves.

Speaker 1:

I'm sure I can't imagine just the pressure and all of that leading up to it.

Speaker 2:

Oh, it's not that much pressure. You just think people might not like it, but that's okay, you know.

Speaker 1:

It was really good. I liked it a lot Well.

Speaker 2:

I appreciate that. I appreciate that.

Speaker 1:

So can you tell me what you are currently reading right now? Authors give the best recommendation.

Speaker 2:

Okay, well, I will tell you what I just read, which is I just read Karina Young Glazer's book, the Nine Moons of Han Yu and Lily, and it is the best book I've read in years. Spoiler alert Karina is one of my best friends, so take that for what it's worth, but it is absolutely fantastic. I expect it to win tons of awards and recognition. It comes out two weeks after mine, so I'm glad that I kind of got the same day. And I am about to read a new book by Santani Dasgupta and actually I don't even know the title, because most of my reading is people asking me to write blurbs for their books, and so I get manuscripts, sometimes with incomplete titles. You know, sometimes I'm reading on a stack of papers, sometimes it's a bound galley, but so that's what's up next.

Speaker 1:

I was just about to ask if you blurb a lot of books, but both of those weren't out yet.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, no, I don't blurb a lot. I think if you blurb too many, it feels like you're just doing it, you know. Give you a blurb too many, it feels like you're just doing it, you know. And also I'm a super slow reader. I'm still a super slow reader and I can't read that. I have to write two books a year. I can't read a bunch of extras on top of it because you know I get asked like every other week. You know I can't. I don't have that. So I save it for books that I'm really excited about, and usually people who I know pretty well. So I know I want to read it anyway. So it gives me a head start.

Speaker 1:

What are your favorite genres to read?

Speaker 2:

Mystery. There's a reason I write mystery. It's because I love to read mystery. Like I said, I was not a good reader growing up Because it's always been a struggle. My speed has always been a struggle but, like, my favorite book as a kid was from the Mixed Up Files, mrs Baisley Frankweiler, which is a mystery, and I just voraciously read the Encyclopedia Brown books because they had short stories in them so I was able to finish them and build up my confidence. And now all my favorite just been this great surge of middle grade mystery in the last couple of years by people like Rudis the Pettus and Steve Schenken, jasmine Warga people who didn't necessarily normally write mysteries, so I love reading those and Carl Hyasson both his kids' books and his adult books, and Michael Conley Mystery mystery all the time for me.

Speaker 1:

So you just named some really really good authors and books.

Speaker 2:

So you just named some really really good authors in books. Well, they're favorites of mine and you know, the funny thing about a mystery is it's genre. Some people look down on genre. I totally love genre so I have no problem, but it is the most interactive book there is, I think. You know, most books are written for you to observe and, you know, feel and be empathetic with and connect with.

Speaker 2:

But in a mystery book kind of the idea is that, no, you're going to be part of this, I'm going to give you the clues and you're going to solve them, or you're going to give me the clues and I'm going to try to solve them before the character. And if you write fair, which means if you give the clues in a reasonable manner, then I'm involved in the book in a whole different way. I'm not just rooting for the characters or feeling for the characters, but I am solving with the characters and that's so much fun to me as both a reader and a writer and a viewer. I've watched so many British mysteries with my wife that I feel like if writing dries up for me, I could get hired at the BBC in their casting department, cause I know he's a good, he's a good potential suspect? Oh, he, she's. She's a great. You know, they always have great medical examiners on those shows. So it's like um, I can't get enough mystery.

Speaker 1:

That's true. I never thought about it as the one of the only books that's such an active process like that I really feel that there's um.

Speaker 2:

So the sherlock books and also the series I wrote called framed start in the thick of the action and then flashback and come back. That's, that's the structure of them, and the reason I do that is partly because I want to get kids to see the young readers to see an exciting part, but also I feel like I have readers who are newish to mystery because they haven't. They're young, you're right, and a lot of them haven't read and I want to tell them at the beginning. It's like in this chapter are many of the key clues for you to figure out. So I'm already telling you now when the solution comes, so that hopefully, when you see the clues along the way, you'll be better opportunity to maybe find them.

Speaker 1:

I think that's a good way to do it. Can you tell me, or what can you tell me, about your current work in progress?

Speaker 2:

So I have two books a year. So I'm always writing two and actually working on four at any given moment. So like, for instance, at the moment I'm not sure when this will air, but at the moment I just last week finished a pass on City Spies Europa, which comes out in February, and, like just going over the notes, I think there's maybe one more. Look at that I am also doing all the prelim stuff for the release of Sherlock Society, Hurricane Heist, which comes out in September. So there's the after the initial writing part of both of those, Although now at this point Hurricane Heist is about to come out. So I'm done with that one and I am writing Sherlock 3, which comes out September of 26, and trying to brainstorm City Spies 8, which comes out February of 27. So, but mostly right now I am working on Sherlock Society 2, 3, which I don't even have a subtitle for it yet. I mean, I know the book and I'm well into it, but I haven't come up with a good title.

Speaker 1:

So I'm trying to say this without spoiling it, but how you left things at the end of book two in Hurricane Heist, is that going to kind of spur where book three is starting?

Speaker 2:

Okay. So I don't mind spoiling a little bit, so I'm going to try to spoil around the edges. So in the first two books, what these guys, what these kids and their grandfather, are doing, it's secret to the world. Right, they're working with stuff that no one else knows they're doing, which is a really fun thing to make, because I think, with kids especially, sometimes they feel like the really special things they do in life are unseen and it's frustrating to them. What happens in book two is big enough that you can't keep it secret anymore. What happens in book two is big enough that you can't keep it secret anymore. So when book three comes along, they are no longer on their own trying to figure out what to do next. They are trying to figure out how to deal with people who want them to come do things for them.

Speaker 1:

Okay, I like that. Okay, I'm really interested to see where that goes.

Speaker 2:

And the fun part of that is there's a website involved in the book and actually I bought the domain name, so I'm going to make the website so that when people read it and they want to find, I can say this now, cause the book's so far off, they'll forget. It's like it'll be a real thing. You can go check.

Speaker 1:

That is really cool. So the Sherlock society isn't your first series, of course, and you said that you're working on multiple series at a time. How do you decide how long they're going to be Like? Do you know from the start or does it kind of just evolve as you go?

Speaker 2:

So the Sherlock Society is my fourth series and business wise with the publisher, they've all been exactly the same. You start with a commitment of two and then we see where it goes from there and the first two series went to three and both of those felt right. City Spies and Sherlock are both going to go longer than that. I know there will be at least 10 City Spies books. There will be at least four Sherlock Society books. That is partly on how long it keeps feeling fresh for me, because I want it to always feel fresh. I want it to always feel new. I don't want it to feel like, oh, that's a fun thing we've done before, but we don't mind doing it again. I want it to be different each time. So partly it's dependent on that and what my editor and I have in conversations about that at each step, because the other thing that's important with that is if 10's going to be the last City Spies book, I need to know that before I write 9. Because I want to end it. I don't want it to be just oh, the story's over. I want to resolve things and the other part is, quite frankly, dependent on readership. If people keep wanting them, certainly the publisher keeps wanting to publish them, and so I think it's a matter of feeling comfortable and fresh with the characters.

Speaker 2:

You know, a good friend of mine is stew gibbs and stew is on, I think, spy school like 12 or 13 and he's fun jungle, maybe 10. So he stews. Stew's a good lead up for me, because I I actually was watching stew. That made me think, oh wait, wait, I can do two series in a year. Now the funny thing is, I thought, because certainly City Spies will die down and then I'll start a new one and that way they'll overlap a little, and then City Spies has continued to get more popular and so they're like no, we don't want to stop that. It's like, oh wait, now I'm doing two books a year for a while. So four years of two books a year, maybe more than that, that's an intense pace. It is, it is, but I really enjoy the work. Not that it's easy. A lot of times it's very frustrating, but I worked in television, which was fun, for 25 years, but that wore me out. This doesn't wear me out, this invigorates me.

Speaker 1:

And speaking of television, can you talk a little bit more about your journey from becoming an author and how you transitioned from screenwriting to novel writing?

Speaker 2:

Sure. So I, like I said, I struggled as a reader as a kid and it wasn't, it was just I was slow at it and I think at early stages I didn't put in the work to maybe build up a little stamina. But I loved writing and I loved storytelling and I gravitated to movies, just absolutely loved movies because, unlike books, movies were the same speed for everyone and, unlike books, movies were a shared experience. You know you'd go to the theater and where I lived you know I joke about it, but it was really important we didn't. I grew you know joke about it, but it was really important, we didn't.

Speaker 2:

I grew up in Florida. We didn't have air conditioning until I was 13 in my house and the movie theater was cold and I would and it was cheap back then and I would go to the movies and I'd watch the same movie back to back just to stay cold, cool, and by watching the movie twice in a row the second time I already knew was going to happen and I started seeing how it worked together. So I loved the idea of movies. So I went to college and majored in screenwriting, went to film school in California, at USC, and I thought that was going to be my career and I ended up starting in kids television and I worked at Disney Channel, I worked at Nickelodeon and I really enjoyed that and script writing was and I worked with great people.

Speaker 2:

But over time I began to be more of a reader and I really liked books and when I had kids and I would see the books they had they'd bring home. Like that, the books of elementary school now are more exciting than the books when I was growing up, yeah. And all of a sudden I'm like well, these are kind of fun, I wonder if I could write one of these. And all of a sudden I'm like well, these are kind of fun, I wonder if I could write one of these. And I ended up trying. And it turns out the whole time I was meant to write books. It fits all the things that I wanted to be a writer but I didn't know if I wanted to be a newspaper writer or a film writer or a TV writer, and I ended up doing a little bit of all of that.

Speaker 2:

And then it's like, oh wait, the most obvious choice, which is books. But I thought, wasn't, I didn't find, until I was in my 40s. And then all of a sudden it's like, oh wait, this is. And now, to be honest, I think all those years of doing that made it a better thing for me, because you know, I wrote a ton of dialogue on television, so I love writing dialogue in a book. There's a lot of structure in the TV stuff and so my books are structured really like a movie or a TV show in their act structure point.

Speaker 2:

Where I'm just going to list some names for you stewart gibbs, alan gratz, gordon corman, shannon messenger, victoria aviard, um, suzanne collins, um, these are just off the top of my head, that's six right there. They all started as screenwriters, except for gordon corman, because gordon got published when he was in high school, but when he went to nyu he majored in screenwriting originally. So we are at a time where I think one of the reasons middle grade is so dynamic right now is people are coming from a lot of backgrounds and it's a pace that moves like film. It's cinematic in description and the dialogue is hopefully sharper, because that's how we all trained, that was how we learned, and that's not everyone, but I think that influence is just like others influence the way I write, so it was a roundabout journey that in retrospect, feels more like a straight line.

Speaker 1:

That makes sense. And I feel like with all the authors you named you can kind of sense like a style or kind of a snappiness to their writing.

Speaker 2:

That's a little bit different you know, I was just talking to alan gratz the other day. Um, I'm doing, I'm doing a little mini podcast nothing like yours, l fancy. I'm doing a little mini podcast where I'm just talking to five different, six different writers about one aspect of writing. And I'm doing that as a lead up to the release of my book and, and Alan and I talked about plot together and Alan and I, and we both have white marker boards at our desk because that's what we used in TV writing and and we and we marked the structure that we use. It's like, yeah, that's exactly the structure I use. And it's like, okay, that makes sense to me, cause when you read Alan's books, you can see the movie in your head. It is a totally different form and there's such great writing and there's so many great writers that don't have that background. You know, katie Camillo doesn't have that background. Her books are magic, you know. But it is an interesting development, I think, in our business.

Speaker 1:

Very true, that's so interesting. So for readers who loved the first book, what can they expect from the second installment in the Sherlock Society series?

Speaker 2:

Okay, the Sherlock Society is a series about a brother and sister, their grandfather and their two best friends solving mysteries together. The grandfather's a retired reporter from the Miami Herald and so he has the storage area with all these unsolved cases from his career and they try to solve those storage area with all these unsolved cases from his career and they try to solve those. And the grandfather was a real revelation for a lot of people because it was different a character maybe you wouldn't normally see in in a kid's book. There's a 73 year old. Very funny there.

Speaker 2:

Hopefully I try to write them funny very funny, very interesting character who is at the heart of it and is in some ways the most like the parents worry more about the grandfather than they worry about the kids. So kids all year, readers all year have come to about how much they love grandpa and I'm thrilled to tell them that if they love grandpa then they're really going to love the next book, because it starts when grandpa was 12. So grandpa is the age that the characters are and three of the chapters in the book are set in 1964, when he was 12 years old. And what they do is they really shows us the mystery that happened in Miami that launched him into becoming an investigative journalist. I mean, his whole life was affected by this this summer and this hurricane that hit Miami in the summer of 64, hurricane Cleo, and that mystery was never solved. Miami in the summer of 64, hurricane Cleo, and that mystery was never solved. And now another hurricane comes 60 plus years later and uncovers some evidence and now they can maybe solve it.

Speaker 2:

So one thing is you have this interesting, you have this dynamic of these two storylines, how they come together. We see grandpa at a young age. We see you know hurricanes. I grew up on the beach in Florida and hurricanes are a real part of our life and you know.

Speaker 2:

So you see stuff about the hurricane and you also get to see what it's like in that alex and his sister don't always get along and he had what for him was the greatest summer ever in the first book and kind of the fear that, oh wait, when I go back to school everything will be back the way it was and that was a fun thing to write because that really hit ever in the first book and kind of the fear that, oh wait, when I go back to school everything will be back the way it was.

Speaker 2:

And that was a fun thing to write because that really hit home how I often felt. Whenever I had good times as a kid, I was always worried like, oh wait, is this going to stop now, you know? And so I think a lot of kids have that and a lot of kids are nervous going into the new school year and so we pick up on that and throw in a hurricane and we throw in believe it or not, a rhinoceros, a wild rhinoceros. So there's a lot going on in the book and so they'll see that There'll be a totally new mystery, but also they'll see, hopefully the things they liked about the first book.

Speaker 1:

And I'm sure that Alex was nervous, especially with his relationship with Zoe at that moment, and whenever she starts hanging out with her friends during the school year again is everything going to change. They finally got into a really good rhythm and now you're kind of starting over.

Speaker 2:

You know it's a funny thing that doesn't relate, but kind of does, to me, Because the plot lines in my books often seem like, well, there's no 12-year-olds that spy for MI6, and no 12-year-olds solve mysteries, and you'd all concede that. But I want the emotions, the dynamics, the anxieties, the interpersonal stuff to all be very real. I used to write a show at Disney Channel called the Mickey Mouse Club, and the kids who were on that show included Christine Aguilera and Britney Spears and Ryan Gosling and Justin Timberlake, and I worked with them every day and they were the age of these kids. They were 12 years old, they were 11 years old and I'll never forget, at the end of the series we had a big rap party and Christina Aguilera, who was going to go on to become one of the most well-known singers in pop history, thought she was just going to go back to Pittsburgh and be a kid again and she was devastated and I remember talking to her at that party and trying to.

Speaker 2:

You know I didn't know what the future held, but it's like, you know, that always stuck with me because looking back now I can see it's like, oh, she didn't know that Superstar was coming. All she knew was that the really good thing that she had was ending and that made her nervous. And that, to me, is the feeling that Alex has at the end of the summer he just had this summer beyond belief that involved the FBI and you know, agents and case and Al Capone's money and all this stuff, and now he's just going to be a kid again and it's a nervous thing, and so for me, that was the emotional truth that I wanted to write about.

Speaker 1:

I like that and I'm sure at the end of every one of your shows it probably kind of feels like the end of a school year a little bit, because you've grown close with Pat, pat and crew. Oh true.

Speaker 2:

Well, every season certainly did. Yeah, no. And then on top of that, when the series would come to the end, it would be like, okay, you know. And then what's really hard and kind of what happened in the first book and on something like a television production, you are impressed and you spend 20 hours a day together every day, six days a week, and they become like a relationship, but it's like family and then it's just over and it's just that's a hard thing that it took time for me to get used to, because I worked in kids' television.

Speaker 2:

I would really see it there and I would really try to talk to the kids ahead of time and say you know, you're going to feel this and it's going to be like this and it's a difficult set of emotions to deal with. And it is like the school year and it's a difficult set of emotions to deal with. And it is like the school year and it's like there's always anxiety going into the school year. There's always anxiety going into a television season or certainly going into a new show. Will people like it? Will people like me Like a good rating? All the same things come into play. So, yeah, there's a lot of that and I like using the school year. The book comes out in September, which is just coincidental, but I like the fact that it will be read by people as the school year starts up.

Speaker 1:

So how do the group dynamics shift in Hurricane Heist now that the team is kind of gaining some experience working together and starting to kind of learn how to investigate a little bit more, now that this is their second case?

Speaker 2:

Well, there's a couple things come into play. First of all, the interpersonal dynamics in the first book were the sister wanted nothing to do with it. She was kind of forced into it that the other two were Alex's friends, not Zoe's, and very much Zoe did not want to be friends with Lena, or at least that's what she said. And it's kind of fun in the second book is, over the course of the first book they became friendlier and now they really do become friends. And for Alex and Yanni it's kind of a mixed thing. They really are happy about that. But also it's like well, lena was their friend and they don't have many friends and now is Lena going to become more her friend and are they back just the two of them?

Speaker 2:

Again, it's so hard to be in middle school. It's so hard, or, yeah, it's so hard with allegiances. With allegiances and you know that's another thing about new school years is oftentimes it turns out like oh, this person and I were really friendly but we had the same schedule and now, if the schedule is different, I don't see them as much, and will they still want to see me at lunch or after school? And there's all that uncertainty. That's what I think we write about. I think we write about the uncertainty so that young readers know that. I think we write about the uncertainty so that young readers know that. Oh wait, this is a universal experience I'm feeling. So the dynamic-wise is a little bit that. So they're becoming tighter and certainly Zoe and Lena are becoming more friends, but they are more skilled at it because they've done it once before.

Speaker 2:

But on the flip side, I think alex's word the others just saw it as something fun for summer and he really wants it to carry on. So it would not be good if you had the same problems every time. So so the interpersonal stuff, there is more on that. So I think it's a little more from. You know, alex is our narrator, so we hear his insecurity a little bit more. But yeah, they certainly are becoming more a team and more a force to solve things, which only been built more in three, you know. So in the in the third book. They're actually really good at it at that point.

Speaker 1:

And of course grandpa helps a lot, giving them some really really good at it at that point. And of course grandpa helps a lot, giving them some really really good tips.

Speaker 2:

Grandpa does help a lot. Grandpa is is is a really fun character to write, but and he's a major character he's part of the team, but it is. The kids are the team, you know, and and I find myself sometimes, when I'm writing, starting to give grandpa a line and say no, no, no, I want a kid to solve that and no, I want Yachty to figure that out. And we'll give grandpa this. You know, we don't want to make him useless, but I think he sees himself as this is a chance not to solve mysteries. This is a chance for me to help these kids find their confidence, find themselves, for me to help these kids find their confidence, find themselves, find their skills that'll be useful throughout their lives. So he's more like the coach of the team, even though he's also the most immature member of the team.

Speaker 1:

And Lena oh my gosh, she has some things that she'll just figure out and I'm like, wow, that is really really smart.

Speaker 2:

Lena, lena Sharp, you know, and Lena Lena is actually inspired by. I mentioned earlier. A good friend of mine is Karina Glazer, the writer, her kid inspired by. I try not to base people on too much and and their kid's really sharp too, but no, I I like the way she figures things out.

Speaker 2:

One of the things I wanted to do with this book that I thought the first book and so it continues on that I thought was a little different is so we have a brother and sister, one who's really popular and one who's not. And what I wanted to make different is the opposite of what happened when I was growing up and I wouldn't care. Counter characters like that is, the one who's not popular is actually pretty happy with who he is in life, and the one who is popular is not, and kind of like she knows that a lot of this stuff isn't real, but I don't want to give it up. And he's like no, I'm king of the geeks, that's fine with me, I'm a nerd man.

Speaker 2:

And Lena kind of becomes this way, because Lena is very much an outsider, she's just moved in, but also comfortable with that. Very much an outsider, she's just moved in, but also comfortable with that that I think she is able to unlock in Zoe a comfort with that that are. You know, your family, your family can tell you something a thousand times and it never hits. And someone else does like, oh okay, you know, I know, as a parent, that baffled me. You know, no matter what I told my son is deaf ears. And then someone else had the exact same thing. Oh, what a great idea.

Speaker 1:

So Lena gives us that and I'm sure that especially with Zoe, just being able to witness such a strong supportive friend group, that's probably not like her friendship with the popular girls, because I know especially she says a couple times like I'm worried that if I don't go to camp with them then I'm going to be out and you know she can clearly see that the Sherlock Society they are in it together yeah, absolutely, absolutely, which is how my friends were and are.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you know, we were never at the forefront, but we were always at each other's back that's important and I'm sure it helps kids see that you can find that you just might have to do a little bit more. And what's one skill, uh, that your care, that your characters have, that you wish you had as a kid?

Speaker 2:

you know, I I, when I create an ensemble thing, so like what I did with City Spies, are here. What I try to do is I give each of the kids like a big thing of my life so that I'm connected to all of them, but I make them better than me. I mean, I wanted to make movies, but Yachty is a better filmmaker at a younger age than I was as an adult, you know, and Lena is sharper and but what skill bravery. I was always I wouldn't say scared kid, but I was. I was never daring kids would jump a bike over a ramp, even a little ramp. I'm like I'm not doing that and no, no matter what they did, I was not brave and I think there are a lot of reasons for that and I'm okay with that. But I wish I had some of their confidence and boldness when I was 12. Well, you know that that would have come in handy I get that I same definitely yeah yeah and it does help that they have each other as a support system.

Speaker 1:

That probably kind of makes them a little bit braver, versus that they were trying to like a balance, just trying to go it alone you know.

Speaker 2:

You know, the thing they had that I really wish I had is the grandfather I I I was raised by a single mom and my grandparents were gone when I was little and and I had a great family, but I never had another generation away point of view to, like you know, um, the grandpa relationship with them is based a lot on my mother with my kids Because she, like grandpa in the book, she lived with us.

Speaker 2:

We built an apartment on our house and that was her place and she was an everyday part of the kids' lives, which was 90% great and 10%, but was 90% great, and I wish I had that. That's not a skill, that's an experience. Also, what I really wanted to give them that I did not have. I had a fantastic mother, but I wanted to give them two solid, involved parents. I wanted that to create in them a confidence of a safety net if they make a mistake, and that that was why I was never daring. I didn't feel like there was a safety net and yeah, so, but but there, there, there are a lot of our family in that family.

Speaker 1:

And I'm sure that kids can relate to and appreciate the family that you've created in the series.

Speaker 2:

I hope so. I think. You know, I don't know I know why, but a lot of books don't have the full both set of parents. You know, the first 12 books I wrote were about disconnected parents because I never met my father. So it was like that, that was the void in me at this age and that's the void that I kept writing and and I I think it's a worthy void to write and I certainly have a lot of thoughts and opinions on it. And so this was the book. The Sherlock Society was the book I told my wife I go. Now I'm going to write a book series based not on the family I grew up in, but on the family that we raised, that this is us and my mom and these kids. And even though it's so from the kid's perspective, my perspective is a little different.

Speaker 1:

And what is one piece of advice that you would give to any kid out there who wants to start writing mysteries of their own?

Speaker 2:

I'm going to give them more than one. Yep, all right. So if you want, if you want to write, I think that's a wonderful, wonderful thing, and I think, even if you don't want to be a writer, writing helps you in so many ways. There is no job on earth that isn't enhanced by your ability to communicate well and to write well and tell your thoughts and share them. But writing is more than that. Writing is about touching the stuff that really excites you, and I think that that's what you should write. You should write things that you are really fascinated by, that you are really interested by. So that's one. I think when you write them, you should write them kind of the way you talk.

Speaker 2:

There's, I think, a tendency for people that are trying to they're more formal when they write or they try to show off with big words, and I just don't think that reads right. I think you should write well. I think you should use good grammar, I think you should have a nice dynamic vocabulary, but you shouldn't inflate the writing it should. You know, the nicest compliment I hear is people who I grew up with sometimes read the books, whether it's with their kids or their grandkids or just they're interested Universally, like at least or I'd say at least half, will tell me James, it sounds like we're sitting at your house and you're telling me the story. It sounds like the voice that I remember you having when we were growing up, and it's like that's what we talk about a writer's voice. These books might not be good, but they are mine and they would only exist with my voice and my ideas. That's what's great about writing. You're the only one who can make the stories that you make. So write in your voice. Write about something you care about. If you were going to be a marathon runner, you would never go out one day and said I'm going to run a marathon, so let's run 26 miles, cause you wouldn't make it yet. People often say, oh, I'm gonna be a novelist, I'm gonna write a novel and it's it's so hard to do without the experience of the building blocks, so I would get the tip of right Shorter things.

Speaker 2:

Write an article, write a short story, write a poem, write a song. Write things, because the key component of being a writer is finishing. People will tell you oh, I have seven different books going. It's like then you don't, because you can only really write. You know one, maybe two. I'm writing two a year, so I can't say you can't write two. I'm writing two a year, so I can't say I can't write two. So write shorter things and get used to finishing them and paying them off. Write jokes. You know I used to write stupid jokes and then I had a job where my job was to tell stupid jokes. I was Davy Crockett at Disney World and I'd paddle up the moon and I would tell stupid jokes.

Speaker 2:

But I learned all about writing, doing that, and after years of that stuff then I started to write a book and then it was still really hard but I knew kind of how to do it. So that's write what you love. Write in your voice, write a good length. The last two tips read everything out loud all the time. It flows so much better if you say it, because when you say it, if you stumble, it's like oh wait, maybe I should use a different word there. Oh wait, that doesn't sound like the way people really talk to each other. So reading out loud is important. My son would say, like you know, because because when I worked in television I would write the books at night and he'd be like it's three in the morning and he'd hear me because my office was next to his bedroom and he'd hear me acting out the book out loud. I was trying not to be loud, but I guess you know, every now and then you hear me.

Speaker 2:

And then you know about mysteries. If you want to write mysteries, that's great. Do yourself a favor. Figure out the solution first and write backwards. I don't mean write the plot backwards, but figure out a really good solution. And once you have that then you know where you're headed right. So it's like a car trip. If you're going on a car trip and you drive away from your home, say you want to drive, you know between two cities, but you don't know where you're going, so you kind of meander. And then halfway through you say, oh, I want to go to Philadelphia, and you drive straight to Philadelphia. Well, that's kind of uneven. But if you know you're going to Philadelphia from the beginning, even if you don't know what roads you're going to take, you kind of stay in a good pace, know what the solution is and then go and then you can layer in the clues.

Speaker 2:

That's a good way to think about it and really good advice. So thank you. Well, I appreciate that I had a lot of writers have helped me when I was a student, when I was working as a living, even, and you know you'll, you'll find that real writers like to talk about writing and share and help and encourage. It's not a competitive field. It is, uh, you know what, the more people read, the better. So let's, let's both go at it, let's, let's be at it together. And I and I love talking to people about writing because then they'll throw back stuff at me. It's like, oh, you know, I just talked to Pam Munoz writing the other day.

Speaker 2:

Pam wrote Esperanza Rising and Manana Land and all kinds of amazing books. And Pam said she said I'm a recursive writer and I'm like what's that? I have no idea what that is. And she described her writing style And'm like wait, that's what I do, I thought I was the only one.

Speaker 2:

And a recursive writer constantly starts at the beginning, keeps it, expands, constantly goes back and rewrites. So like I'll write the first chapter and then I'll rewrite the first chapter and then I'll rewrite it. I'll write the second chapter and I'll go back and I'll go through the first chapter, I won't change much, but then I'll rewrite the second chapter and I'll go back and I'll go through the first chapter, I won't change much, but then I'll rewrite the second and then, when you get further, when you're on like chapter 12, maybe only go back to chapter nine, but you're constantly going back through. I'm on my 14th book and I didn't realize that. Oh, that's a thing.

Speaker 2:

I thought it was just like the way that I did it and no one else did it and I didn't want to tell anyone because I thought it was maybe different and it's like no, that's how she does it. She's an amazing writer. So you're always picking up clues for other people and yeah, so it's great to talk about it and I really want young people to write because it's a great way to express yourself. But don't do it if it's like I'm only going to write this if it's going to get published, because that's an unfair expectation to put on yourself. And because that's an unfair expectation to put on yourself. And you know, write it for the joy of it and then you'll get better at it and then maybe it'll turn into good things do.

Speaker 2:

You talk to your writing group um multiple times a week or a month and chat with them a lot I have a writing group that we zoom once a week and there's 10 of us, 12 of us, and they are heavy hitters.

Speaker 2:

They are like all award-winning, best-selling, great and they're funny and that, and we text non-stop all the time and we talk about silly stuff and we talk about business stuff and we talk about our families and our kids and publishing in general and we talk about difficulties we have with writing and, like you know, and I'll throw a question out and instantly, like four people will jump in and say, oh, look at this. Or oh, I read this once and this really helped me. Or oh, wait, I love that idea. Or you know, I'll send some chapters to someone. So we just read this, because I know you'll be honest with me and I'll know you'll read it with the critical eye of knowing what it, what it should be if it's going to be published. So, yeah, that that writing support group really helps and it's funny that that is really a product of covid well, I was just about to ask how you started or how you met them yeah, it was we.

Speaker 2:

We met each other and we would get together every now and then. Um, there's a book festival in texas called the north texas team book festival and a lot of us usually end up there. They ended up there and we knew each other from there. We couldn't go because of COVID and we couldn't do things. We didn't see anybody and it was someone's birthday and we got together. We go who wants to get on? And we'll just celebrate a birthday. And the funny thing was it was her birthday and my birthday. We both have the same birthday, both have the same birthday, and so then I was always added on as the oh and James, which was, you know, is the loving joke of it all and we just did that once. And so all this kind of fun, let's do it next week, and we've done it next week now for five years so glad that you have other writers that you can talk to.

Speaker 2:

Definitely helped so much it really it's, it's really nice and they're incredibly supportive and you know, and and it and they're incredibly supportive and you know, and it's, they're really talented. And that's probably the younger stage in my life. There were professional jealousies and envies and television and things that you can't help because you worry there's all kinds of imposter syndrome and stuff involved in it. But we truly are thrilled for each other. A woman in that group is Christina Suntorn-Wa, and three times she's won Newbery medals. But we truly are thrilled for each other. A woman in that group is Christina Suntorn-Vaughan. Three times she's won Newbery medals, newbery honors, and it feels like each of us has won, because it's like we're just so thrilled for her Because we were there when she was writing the book and we knew the struggle she had and we knew, oh, it didn't sell.

Speaker 2:

You know all these things. And then she's getting this great recognition and it all didn't sell. You know all these things and then she's getting this great recognition and we're all screaming with joy. You know, and having that in your life people who are truly happy for you when you're doing great, people who are there for you when something goes wrong that helps a lot. When you're doing something creative, that is mostly you alone at a keyboard.

Speaker 1:

And book people are just the best people. They've been the nicest, most supportive, yeah.

Speaker 2:

They're so nice. So are librarians and booksellers and writers at age. My editor is just wonderful. I love talking to her, joking with her. It's funny. I will email her, call her and text her all the same day, but it's like this feels like a text and this feels like a phone call and this feels like an email and it's like you know, and they're just great people to be around, as are you. You know, the book world exists now and podcasts and digital stuff and all like that, and it's just so great that it extends.

Speaker 2:

You know, one of the things that you hear a lot is people say I want a reader to be able to see themselves in a book and I think that's as important as anything that we do. But I also want writers to see themselves, young people to see themselves in the writers, and I like that. We now live in a world where it's not just a name, where they find out bits and pieces, where maybe they see you be silly with a friend. In a world where it's not just a name, where they find out bits and pieces, where maybe they see you be silly with a friend and they realize wait a minute, that's not some untouchable job, that I don't understand those. You know, stuart Gibbs and James Ponty are as goofy with each other as old guys as they were. If they grew up together and were in middle school together. That means they're like my friends and me, you know. And certainly podcasts like this and things like this make that more of a thing where, oh, there's more to it than just name on a book.

Speaker 1:

I agree.

Speaker 2:

But it is wonderful and I got librarians and other people who write to me and it's just so much fun to be able to joke right back with them, and what do you hope that kids will take away from this book beyond the cases?

Speaker 2:

The cases don't matter to me. So if you ask someone what a book is about, they will usually tell you the plot, which is what the book is about and which is what people mean when they ask me oh, tell me what that book's about. But if you ask a writer what the book is about, they usually won't talk about the plot at all, because the plot is just the vehicle to do the stuff that it's really about. So for me, the Dead City books were all about finding out the hero inside of you, building the confidence. The Frame books were all about two people figuring out what it's like to be someone's best friend. The City Spies books are all about two people figuring out what it's like to be someone's best friend.

Speaker 2:

The City Spice books are all about what is a family if it's not a traditional family, and how is that different, and is it less or more or what? And the Sherlock books are about all of those things. You know it is. There's the family part, there's the friend part, there's the confidence part, but it you know, I want them to see the value of doing collaborating with people, to use your what you're good at and what they they're good at to do something, maybe more than any of you could do on your own, but also to see that it's the people that matter and using your brain is the greatest tool of all not a superpower, not a weapon, not even a computer, but us talking through this problem is how we will figure it out.

Speaker 2:

But mostly I want them to have fun reading the story, laughing with the characters trying to solve it along the way. My ultimate favorite reaction is if someone gets to the end and they think they have it solved and they don't have it solved, but when they hear the solution, they go of course. That's, how did I miss that right? I want it to seem like oh, that's what I should have seen, that that I've done my job as well as I can do it I thought it was a really, really fun book, so I'm excited for everyone else to get a chance to read I am too, and I appreciate you reading it.

Speaker 2:

I appreciate you taking the time to, to take this time to talk to me. I I give really long answers. I'm sorry about that. Um, again, I work all by myself all day, so to talk is so, so exciting well and especially to talk about your characters in your book.

Speaker 2:

You know that well, but that that's a little awkward. I actually more fun talking about other people's stuff, you know, because, yeah, but you know it's there are. There are some. I have these great kids who live in my neighborhood who are the right age and read the books, and they read the books before they come out. They read them while I'm still writing them to catch mistakes and stuff like that, and they know my books so much better than I know my books. I'll call them when I go oh, I have this problem. Is it this or is it that it depends on which book and this book and this book? It was this and that book and this book, it was this and that book and that book was that. And it's like, oh, I should be consistent on that.

Speaker 1:

But yeah, it is, it is fun to talk about. Yeah, it's really funny because at the North Texas Teen Book Festival there's this whole like table. I don't know if you really get to see this part of it, but there's this whole like table on tables of the books and like the signed copies. And so you know, you get to walk in that little area and buy the book that you didn't already bring with you. And so we me and my friend were walking through and she was trying to decide which book to get for her little brother, and it was by the Alan Graff's table. And this one boy, he just he just started talking to us about the books and he was like, oh my gosh, this is my favorite series and I absolutely love them. And we were asking him like, wait, wait, which one would you start with and would you recommend it for someone that likes this, this and this? And so he was giving us like a whole guide through the book.

Speaker 2:

So yeah, it was great people ask me like oh, do you want to write books for adults too? No, I think there is nothing like young reader for the passion they bring to reading and for what they demand. I I see in movies and books things I could never get away with, because I could not face 12 year olds saying I can't believe you had them just luck into figuring this out because they they feel it so hard and so strong and, um, that's just the best feeling to me. So I love those, those young readers. I love the questions they have. That I never, never even occurred to me, because the way they interpret it and it's just, it's really, it's a fun, it's a fun living nice and I think they will catch things.

Speaker 1:

Don't accept for sure, I used to be a teacher, I mean, I was high school. But still they, they will catch things.

Speaker 2:

Yes they catch everything and um, and they'll notice connections. I um, I had a kid call me and they go um, because my kid's a family friend. I noticed in this book there's a officer martinez. That's right in the opening of sherlock's study. Officer martinez is one of the officers from the marine patrol who rescues them, who actually is the name after the officer who took me out in the boat on my research trip for the marine between, and we raced around biscayne bay together. So I thought, oh, I made the character after you. Well, apparently there was an officer Martinez and with the FBI in um the third frame frame book, so like eight books ago. And this kid goes is it the same guy? Like what, is that the same officer Martinez? Is that like some? Did you put that in? Is that like an easter egg we have? Like no, it's just I named it after the guy and I forgot I had used that name before. But it's like wow, I can't believe you remembered that minor character who had one line seven books ago Wow.

Speaker 2:

But, there you go.

Speaker 1:

Well, yay, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me oh, I appreciate it so much, kristen.

Speaker 2:

And but to everyone out there, you know, I just want to say thank you, thank you for listening, thank you for reading and remember you know you may not like my books, which is totally fine. There are books out there you will love. Don't be like me when I was a kid and just feel like I don't think there's anything for me and just not look around. You know, look around, find the books and you can't go wrong, because it's so much fun to get into these stories. I think we live in such a good period in middle grade fiction and middle grade nonfiction, where we have just a lot of different voices sharing a lot of experiences and there's just places to find yourself in all of them.

Speaker 1:

I agree. So many more options than when I was younger.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I imagine, and I was younger a lot longer ago than you were. So yeah, for sure. Have a great day and happy reading everyone.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for listening to when I Left Off a bookish podcast. You can visit James' site, follow him on social media and purchase his novels anywhere. Books are sold. The Sherlock Society. Hurricane Heist releases September 2nd 2025.