Where I Left Off

The Dramatic Life of Jonah Penrose with Author Robyn Green

• Kristen Bahls • Season 2 • Episode 58

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Thank you to Harper Collins and Author Robyn Green for talking to me about The Dramatic Life of Jonah Penrose. 

Author Robyn Green:

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SPEAKER_01:

Welcome back. I'm Kristen Balls, and you're listening to Where I Left Off, a Bookish Podcast. And today I'm joined by author Robin Green, and we are talking about her debut, The Dramatic Life of Jonah Pinrose. Thank you so much for joining me today, Robin. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to talk to you. Yay, me too. So the first question that I always ask every author, because authors just give really good book recommendations, is what are you currently reading right now?

SPEAKER_00:

I I literally this morning started the audiobook of We Bury Our Bones in the Midnight Soil. So I'm I'm only like about five minutes in. I don't know what that equates to in pages, but so far so good. But previously what did I I listened to a lot of audiobooks because I just find it so much easier for me than sitting down and reading. Um and I just read, is it the yeah, the Road Trip by Beth O'Leary? And I'm probably a bit late with her books. Um I just started reading like everything she's done this year, but I love them. She she makes the best characters, she's great.

SPEAKER_01:

Do you listen to books on like one time speed or do you kind of pump up the pace a little bit?

SPEAKER_00:

So if I get out a book that says it's about 24 hours long, I will have it on about 1.75 just because I like to listen to at least three or four a month, and it's not gonna happen if it's that long. Um, but if they're on the shorter side, I will have it normal speed. But I think I've got so used to them talking so quickly now when it's normal speed, it sounds very, very slow. Yep. It sounds like their mouth is like full of rocks or something a little bit, yeah. Yeah, it's like why are you being so slow? I don't need you that slow. But yeah. Where do you tend to get your audiobooks from? I get mine off Libby and like my local library app. I didn't know you could get audiobooks from the library, and my friend told me, and it literally changed my life, it was the best thing ever. I'd been I still get them on Audible for the ones that aren't on the library app, but being able to access so many titles on there was like Christmas when she told me that. It was amazing.

SPEAKER_01:

And I don't know if they have it where you are, but if your library happens to have hoopla, you might want to check into that as well. It's kind of like a Libby, but you get like 15 credits a month, and all of the audiobooks that are on there um are available for instant download, so you don't have to wait like you do with Libby. You can just go at like any pace. Oh my gosh, that sounds amazing. And and they have so many. Like my library, as soon as Brimstone by Callie Hart came out, it was there that day. Like all of the books are hitting like that day, and you can just listen to it right away on pub day. And it is it is wild, but it is really, really cool.

SPEAKER_00:

That is literally the dream. I hate it when I click on it, put it on hold. It's like it you've got 16 weeks to wait.

SPEAKER_01:

Like, oh my gosh, no. And then it always comes about at like the worst possible time, and you're like, no, I don't have time for this right now, but I wanted it.

SPEAKER_00:

You'll get four books come through all at once, and then you have to prioritize. And I can't do that because I want to listen to them all. And it yeah, yeah. That sounds amazing. I'm going to look into that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, a lot of libraries have been adding on hoopla and libby. Like mine actually has both, so I can check and see uh which one it's on, and then use both. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, so you've just made the Libby experience even better. Incredible.

SPEAKER_01:

Audiobooks are just better when they're through the library, if you can. They are, they are, and if they're there. If you can find them and if they have them, yeah. Absolutely, I agree. Oh, one more random aside before I get on to the next question. But um, for some reason, so like TJ Maxx, Marshalls, those kind of overstock stores have been having books, and I found a signed copy the other day of Bury Our Bones in the Midnight Soil. And I I know, I looked and it said on the little sticker, like signed, and I thought, nah, that's probably just a misprint. There's no way that it would just be like sitting in a store like this, and I opened it and it was her signature. No way!

SPEAKER_00:

Oh my god. So I on a tangent now, I went to a charity shop and they had a like five books for a pound, which is insane anyway. And they had a fairy loot edition of a book. And I oh my gosh, I can't remember what it is now. Juna Putton Thorn. That is so cool. And it had the sprayed edges, and I opened it and it was signed. And I wish 20p for this book. Obviously, I got five for a pound because who wouldn't? But this the things you find is incredible. And I love a signed book, it's like a little gem.

SPEAKER_01:

Me too. I also have a signed book. See, that's just more um more reason to go searching in all those kind of random places for books because you just never know what you'll find.

SPEAKER_00:

You never know. And you I love a charity shop anyway, and I found like some really gorgeous, like old editions, like of Charles Dickens books, you know, like the books that look old, they're like leather-boundish looking with gold print. It's like, oh my gosh, they're so beautiful just as objects. So yeah, I'm always up for a little rummage through shops.

SPEAKER_01:

I was gonna say, I totally agree. I was in a vintage bookstore the other day, and they had like the old copies of like Nancy Drew that I'd never seen before and like Agatha Christie's. I was like, oh my gosh, they're so cool to look at.

SPEAKER_00:

No, they're lovely. I love them older, like just they have a certain look about them and they're so nostalgic. They're just nice to have. I agree.

SPEAKER_01:

As you can tell, we really like to decorate our bookshelves with all the goods. Um, so what can you tell us about your current work in progress? So is the dramatic life of Jonah Penrose is that a standalone or is it the first book in a series? Because I could see it going either way by the way that it ended.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, it is a standalone. Okay. What's been nice is the readers that I have spoken to have been like, it would be really nice to have something with Bastian and seeing like what happens with him in New York, maybe something from Dexter's point of view, which I mean I'd love to write it, but who knows? At the moment, Jonah is a standalone.

unknown:

Perfect.

SPEAKER_01:

And what are you currently working on uh right now?

SPEAKER_00:

I don't know how much I'm allowed to say. Okay, you can keep it very vague. Yeah, it's another rom-com, it's another queer rom com. With Jonah, I feel like London and the setting of London is very much a character within itself. Uh, with this new one, the character's been pulled from London. Uh so he's been pulled out of that setting and put somewhere completely different. So so far it's been really different to write. I come from kind of a rural-ish place anyway. So, although London, I love London and everything that it brings, it's nice to write something which was a bit more closer to home. So that's probably about as much as I can say at the moment.

SPEAKER_01:

Whenever you come up with new ideas for uh books, do you have like a list that you're pulling from, or does it just kind of hit you at random times and then you just run with that when you know you have like an idea that you want to go forward with?

SPEAKER_00:

I think it really depends. My agent, bless her heart, has had so many emails from me going, I've got this idea, I've got this idea, and she's great because she will listen to everything I spew at her, and it could be the most random things, and she she's good in that she'll be like, No, this no, no, this is ridiculous, just leave it alone, or she'll be really encouraging and say, Yeah, go for it. So I do have a kind of catalogue of things that I want to write, but it's about prioritising, I think, which ones will come next, which would follow on nicely from Jonah, because you know, that that was my debut, and you you do want to. I personally didn't want to step too far out of that kind of world I'd created there. So when looking at writing something else, it was very much what would go hand in hand. And although I had loads and loads of ideas written down, I had a meeting with my agent and said, I've got this idea, I haven't got any characters in mind yet, it's very loose, and she was just like, Go for it, and it's somehow now shaped into something which hopefully actually has a plot. So we'll see how it goes.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, yay, I'm excited to read it. What does your typical writing day look like?

SPEAKER_00:

So my writing day has changed so much. The week that Jonah came out, I finished my job and I started a new job. So it's a bit of a wild week for me, and with my old job, I had a lot more time to just sit and write. I'd have dedicated days where I was at my desk writing, whereas now I am at work all the time. So that's kind of changed, but I'm more of an evening writer anyway, which is rather useful. I hear some authors they get up two hours before anybody else, so they can write, and I admire them because I could I'd probably cry if I had to get up at 5 a.m. So yeah, I'm more of an evening writer. So when I do sit down, I would always have a cup of tea. A cup of tea keeps me going. I technically should be where I am right now in my office, but I do like to have my laptop on the sofa with my blankets and dogs. So that's kind of my routine, although it's it's changing at the moment.

SPEAKER_01:

I was gonna say that's completely different to try to get used to that and switch it around. And I'm sure it's hard with the creative process to have that big of a change and figure out how it looks now.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and it was it was weird because when I I got my new job and I was so excited about it, there was this voice in the back of my head thinking, you're gonna have less time to write now, and you've you you know, you've actually got a book out now. It's not like you're doing it just because you enjoy doing it, you know, that you've got a book and hopefully have another book, and then suddenly I'm taking on this whole massive new role. But so far, so good. I mean, I'm only two weeks in, so we'll see.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. Well, getting a little bit more into the dramatic life of Jonah Pinrose. So, as you were developing the idea for the story, was it Jonah and Dexter that came to you first, or did kind of the overall premise come to you first?

SPEAKER_00:

It was definitely the premise with this one. I remember having a chat with my agent about what I wanted to write. She suggested romance to me because it wasn't actually a genre I ever thought about writing in. I enjoy reading it, uh, but it wasn't, I just was like, well, I don't think I could write romance. It just felt like it was out of my wheelhouse. And she said, Look, write about something you love, and for me that was the theatre. So it felt really easy suddenly coming up with this kind of theatre that they could work in. And I remember being online and I saw an article about a big Broadway actor who had got engaged to someone he'd worked with previously, and I was like, oh, that's amazing! Like, imagine all the relationships that could flourish in that world, and so that idea came first, and then the characters came second. Whereas if I'm honest, it's usually the other way around for me. I have a little character in my mind who's like, put me in something, but no, it was definitely the world this time.

SPEAKER_01:

That's really interesting. And what is your like what is your favourite show? Oh my goodness. I know it's hard to pinpoint like one immediately off the top of your head.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, there's and you know what, there's been so many amazing ones that I've seen in the last couple of years as well that I feel like the things that are being put on in here in the UK, I know that Broadway have got some incredible things as well, but every time I go to see something, I'm in love with that show when I'm sitting there watching it. But cabaret is my favourite. However, I really love Hades Town, and every time I go to see Hades Town, I think to myself, this is my favourite, but then I'll go see Cabaret again. And I saw Cabaret again in September, and when we left, I said to my friend, like, I just don't think there's anything quite as good as this, especially on the West End. It's just the current production of it is so good. So I've I go between the two, but I love next to normal. See, now you've got me started on shows, like there's so many amazing ones, amazing ones, and Two Strangers, Carrie Cake Across New York. It's closed here now, but it's just open on Broadway. If anyone listening is thinking about going to watch that, go and watch it because it is amazing, honestly, incredible.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, whenever I see a show, I tend to try to like specifically not read up on what it's truly about or watch any of the YouTube videos of the song. So that way, whenever I go in, it's like my like I'm trying to figure it out as I'm watching.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh see, I'm I'm the opposite. I so I've just started listening to the chess uh recording, and I don't have a clue what that show is about, but I'm like, these songs are really good. I think you know it's actually about chess, it's actually about chess. So if it does come here, I'll watch it. At least I'll know the songs, but who knows what it's I mean, I'm assuming it is about chess. It's the clue in the title, but who knows?

SPEAKER_01:

It's fun either way. So Jonah and Dexter, um, like you said, as you're trying to come up with this idea, having two male actors working side by side, sometimes they're kind of up for the same roles. And especially in this book, they uh they're up for some of the same roles. So, in your opinion, what makes Jonah and Dexter such great rivals throughout the book?

SPEAKER_00:

I think that because they're both so evenly matched, I don't feel like one actually has a step up on the other when it comes to the professional world, because that's where their rivalry has stemmed from. Um, you know, being on the West End, being in shows. I wouldn't say that Jonah is more talented than Dexter, or vice versa. And I think that that's why they're quite, you know, good at arguing with each other, because you can't have Dexter, although he does, doesn't he, say like, you've done this wrong, you've done that wrong. Because actually on paper, Jonah's the one who's won an award, you know, Dexter hasn't. But and I think that's such a good dynamic as well, because when it comes to the theatre world, everybody up on stage is there because they're talented, because they've worked to get there. And I mean, I'm I'm not an on stage actor, I've always been more behind the scenes with things, but I can't imagine how competitive it must be and how you know repetitive it is going for auditions, not getting them, and then seeing maybe the same person getting those roles you want to get, it must be soul destroying, and especially when it's obviously a career people are passionate about, you're never gonna go into a role like that unless you really love it and you want to be there every night performing. So yeah, I think that's why they they are good rivals because if they were gonna have a physical fight, if you're looking at it, if it was a fantasy, one of them doesn't have more magic than the other, and they're both the same. So I think that's why it works well for them.

SPEAKER_01:

And even though um Jonah does win an award, I feel like Dexter has a lot of kind of like fame behind him a little bit too, which matches them even more, kind of just in different spheres in addition to their talent.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's like little extra things that they're like, oh well, I've got this, and I well, I've got more followers than you. So, but again, it's like when it comes down to it, between those two, it's the casting director's decision. Doesn't matter if you've got 100,000 followers or if you have an Olivia Award. I'm sure an Olivia Award actually probably helps. Um, but yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And I'm sure it's so much just like you said, like what that director wants that day or what they're envisioning for that character. So if you don't fit that, it's sometimes you can't help it. It's just, but that would be so hard to constantly have to go through that process day in and day out.

SPEAKER_00:

Definitely, and that you see it when they do casting announcements for shows, like you'll read the comments and people be like, Well, why if they cast so and so or so and so would be better? And it's like, well, you don't know what this production's gonna be like, what they're looking for, what somebody did in that audition room. Um, it's very easy when you're not there to have an opinion on you know who would be right for what, but I think that's also part of the industry, and actors having to go out there and almost prove themselves, which is sad because you know they're there for a reason, but it is just the the nature of you know that that kind of job, and not you know, they'll have a contract for however many months and then have to find something else. I must I I mean I I'm in awe of them, honestly. I couldn't I couldn't do that.

SPEAKER_01:

So can you tell me a little bit more about your background in the theatre?

SPEAKER_00:

So when I was younger, I I wanted to be on stage, and that's one showing me headlining shows. And I was when I was little, I was in my local like dramatic society. I got to be in a Vita, which was amazing. I remember getting time off school to actually do that, and I felt very important. Like, I don't get to go to school this week because I'm in a show, and yeah, it was great, but as I got older, I realised I lacked the talent to actually dancing, act. Wasn't actually really my thing, but I loved the theatre world, so I knew I wanted to be in it somewhere. So in more recent years, I worked before actually doing more theatre-y things on photo shoots. I'd do wig styling, hairstyling up until kind of COVID, really, which obviously put a stop to everything like that, and then afterwards I went more into costume design and curation, specifically for the theatre, which was amazing. But it felt so poignant when Jonah came out that my book about theatre was the week I left a theatre job. But yeah, so I feel like I had a good behind the scenes insight to how the world works from a costume perspective, anyway, which is why I wanted Cherie in there because although I don't do makeup, I know that hustle and bustle of like, you need to be on stage, why are you not ready? Why have you not got all your costume on? And I felt like it put me in a good place to be able to write this book.

SPEAKER_01:

I agree. And I thought that was fun with her in there and so many scenes taking place, like in the dressing room and behind the scenes and talking about the costuming of every um every production.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it was it was nice to put that in because with some books I've I've worked on, I've had to do so much research because I just don't know enough about something. And I like to be able to think that when somebody reads my book, actually that is the way it works. It's not gonna be a hundred percent with everything, but when it came to costuming and things like that, I wanted it to be accurate because that is actually something I know about. So that was quite important to me. I can tell it it it's very it seems very realistic so.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you for writing it.

unknown:

No, thank you.

SPEAKER_01:

So did one of the characters come to you more clearly than the other when you started writing? Like was Jonah a little bit easier than Dexter, or Dexter a little bit easier than Jonah?

SPEAKER_00:

Jonah was definitely easier. I think because it's from I mean it's in third person, but it's close to Jonah. So right off the bat, he was just there. And Dexter, I think because he's not in it from the get-go, was a little bit easier to kind of create him more in the background. I had Bastion there and Cherie with Jonah very early on. Um, but Dexter had an idea of him, but in a way I think that worked because I wrote the book chronologically. I know some people are able to write things here, and I don't know how they do it. It's I wouldn't even know where to begin. But so this idea that Jonah had of Dexter was kind of the same idea I had of Dexter before I really knew him, before I'd wrote him. And I think that works when it comes to rivalry because the way Jonah was anticipating this meeting of Dexter was weirdly how I was feeling about writing him because I didn't know him. I just knew of he's got to be this, he's got to be this talented guy, he's got to be this threat. I actually think he was well, and Mari was the last character I kind of made, but it was Dexter, who was an enigma, I think, for the longest time.

SPEAKER_01:

And that makes sense with the whole kind of yoga scene and you know how Jonah's trying to figure out how Dexter's gonna play it, and I won't go into any more because I don't want to spoil, but that that whole kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and I think that that's quite fun as a writer. Before writing Jonah, I was someone who didn't plan, and I think it drove my agent crazy because she'd say, So what's the you know overall synopsis of what you're writing? I don't know. We'll see. So but actually with Jonah, I did do a plot plan, but still not having the ins and outs of each character makes it interesting for me as a writer because oh Dexter's just gone and done this. Why did he do that? I don't know, but then I can do a reaction to that while writing, which is really fun. That's a really good point.

SPEAKER_01:

I never thought about it that way. Interesting.

SPEAKER_00:

You never know with these characters, they go rogue sometimes. I could see that.

SPEAKER_01:

And how did you balance uh really their competitiveness with kind of the vulnerability as they learn to open up to each other throughout the book when the romance is developing?

SPEAKER_00:

I felt it was really important to, with a romance, not make the romance their sole driving factor. I think when I've read romance books, it's always more interesting when the romance isn't defining them. So with both characters, I wanted there to be something behind the way they're acting. So with Jonah, his vulnerability comes from actually isn't very confident at all when it comes to himself. He can get up on a stage and perform when he's playing a character, but when he's himself, he lacks that confidence. And then he also has, again, without going into too many spoilers, a lot going on with his family. And I felt that it was so important to create a life for him outside of something he was developing with Dexter. And although Dexter's isn't explored as much, he's also got his own things going on, his own family things, his own insecurities. I like to think it makes more interesting characters and helps balance them out. It gives them a more rounded, realistic kind of reason for the way they are because nobody's perfect, no matter how much they want to be. And I think it's really important to see characters with flaws because it's that's the way life is, and I think that's what I really want to do with like balancing out that rivalry with things that people do have to deal with in life, and there's no guidebook for how you deal with that. So getting to explore that was really quite poignant for me as a writer to be able to look at those aspects and put them into words.

SPEAKER_01:

And I feel like they were able to kind of call on each other and say, like, hey, I need to know this, and like, hey, I need you to do this. And so at least they kind of pulled each other into that space, even though at times it kind of seemed like they were dragging their heels a little bit because they didn't want to open up because it was hard, or like whatever Dexter wouldn't say wherever he went um on the weekends and stuff like that. And so it was kind of nice that they kind of taught each other and got to communicate with each other to figure out um how to get there.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and I think when people have asked me like what your characters like, I'm like, they're both idiots who don't know how my how to communicate with each other because actually, if they did know how to do that, one, there wouldn't be a book, but two, it's about learning and developing as people, you know. As humans, we carry past experiences with us, whether we mean to or not, and can put them onto other people. And Dexter and Jonah unfortunately fall foul to that, but I think that they do make each other better in the end.

SPEAKER_01:

What is one moment in the book that always makes you smile, maybe when you wrote it or as you're reading it back?

SPEAKER_00:

I really love some of the scenes with Jonah's dad, which again I don't want to talk about in case somebody's listening who hasn't read it, but there's some very sad stuff with Jonah's dad, but then there's some memories there, which I just think as you get older, because I'm in my 30s now, and you can, you know, by no means am old, I mean I hope not, but you can look at your childhood and remember like these certain magical things, and I remember those things from my childhood. So being able to give Jonah those memories as well was really nice, and even at the end of the book, when he's kind of looking out at the theatre and he sees someone in the audience, that was really nice to me because I felt that it was giving a nod to the people who maybe can't be there anymore. And although it's kind of like a bittersweet thing, I loved writing that and even reading it back, like it has made me smile, and I'm pleased that I was able to write that.

SPEAKER_01:

He definitely comes to kind of like an inner piece about it as much as you can with something like that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And what would okay, so it's getting closer to Christmas time. What would Jonah and Dexter get each other for Christmas and how would they spend their day?

SPEAKER_00:

So, this is such a good question because I feel like Dexter would buy Jonah one of the jumpers that he likes. I just know that that's what he'd do because it would annoy him. Also, it's actually a really nice gift, you know, really nice designer jumper. Lovely, thank you. But with Jonah, I just don't know what he'd get Dexter, because Dexter is the kind of guy that would be like, Well, if I wanted it, I've already bought it. True. Or, you know, he's he's got everything that he really needs, and I think he's quite content in his little world that he's got. Then I also, this is kind of like an inner canon that I have, is that Dexter likes to read, he likes a cup of tea. So I thought if if Jonah knew this, which one day he would do, he could maybe buy him a nice little tea selection, some books, but then Dexter would probably be like, Well, I've read that. So that's the kind of vibe I get from them. But if they were gonna spend Christmas together, I think maybe they'd go to Cornwall, be with Jonah's family, because I always imagine like that being a really nice, cozy Christmas in his mum's house. If they were in London, just kind of snuggled up together in one of their homes, eating lots of food, listening to Christmas songs with lots of tinsel. I think it would be a cute Christmas for them.

SPEAKER_01:

I love that. Yeah, maybe Jonah could even like take Dexter to the bookstore one day and be like, okay, pick out what you want. Because, like you said, he wouldn't be able to figure it out because Dexter would have read everything. Unless they followed each other on Goodreads. That's that's what I did for like all my friends' book Christmas Kips was saw what they already read and what they said they wanted to.

SPEAKER_00:

See, I don't trust that because my one of my best friends has got Goodreads, and she's got so much stuff on her list. I was like, Okay, I'll get her this and this. And then she'd be like, Oh no, I have read that. I've read that, and I'm like, Oh no, I can't trust the Goodreads list. Yeah, but you're right. I think if he he just said to Dexter choose and then I'll pay for it, it's probably the best thing that he could do.

SPEAKER_01:

But that would be really fun for them to go um back to Cornwall so then Dexter can experience that like traditional Christmas that he may not have normally had growing up.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and I I definitely think that Jonah's mum and aunts would put on a really good Christmas. You know, they'd have good food um and just have a good time. So they deserve that.

unknown:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Is there anything else that you would like readers to know about the dramatic life of Jonah Penrose?

SPEAKER_00:

But I just hope that you know, when I was growing up, there wasn't I found it really hard to find a book that had like diverse representation, like queer people in it. And I just hope that I mean it's great, there's so many books now. I mean, we can always do more, but that someone can see that and see themselves in a character in the world and know that they're not alone in that way. I hope theatre lovers find it because I have dropped quite a lot of Easter eggs in there. I know not all of them have been found yet from people I've spoken to. So it'd be great to see if people can find those as well. I I wrote it for people who the arts and love being creative, so I hope that it does find those readers.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, thank you for taking the time to talk to me. That's it for today. Thanks for listening to Where I Left Off A Bookish Podcast. You can visit Robin's site through the link in the show notes and purchase her novel anywhere books are sold. The Dramatic Life of Jonah Penrose releases November 11th, 2025. So it is already available and ready for you to read.