Where I Left Off

Songbird with Author Rebecca Wrights

• Kristen Bahls

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Thanks to Author Rebecca Wrights for talking to me about her latest release, a dystopian romance novel, Songbird. 

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For links to the books discussed in this episode, click the link here to take you to the Google Doc to view the list. 

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SPEAKER_01

Welcome back. I'm Kristen Balls, and you're listening to Where I Left Off, a Bookish Podcast. And today I am joined by the author of Feels Like Coming Home, the Nat 20 series, Rebecca Wrights, and we are talking about her latest release, Songbird, which is actually Book One in the Harmony series. Thank you so much for joining me, Rebecca. Yes, thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here. Yay! Okay, you know what I'm gonna ask you. Yes. What are you currently reading? The most important question.

SPEAKER_00

So I am actually in the thick of editing and writing. And when I am in both of those spaces, I cannot read because I find that I am very easily influenced by the things that I am consuming. So I'm actually not currently reading anything. I started, in my defense, I did start to read The Enchanted Greenhouse, which is the follow-up to the spell shop. I think it's just the spell shop. The author's name is escaping my mind. But I see the book cover in my brain. Yes, it is such a fun follow-up. I was like hoping and crossing my fingers for a paperback, but they're like really not letting those paperbacks go because I own the paperback of the spell shop and I wanted the paperback of the Enchanted Greenhouse, but it's still not out. So I just bought the Kindle version and I'm reading that. But currently, I've like put it on pause because I'm currently in the throes of editing a book that's coming out this summer and writing the third book of the Harmony series while also working on a ghostwriting project. So I'm not currently reading, but when I go back to my reading, that's what I will be reading.

SPEAKER_01

So with um whenever you're not reading, does it just feel like that space, like that time? I don't know. Like how how do you relax then? Like whenever you're trying to unwind, but then you want to keep your creative process. So I totally get why you don't read.

SPEAKER_00

Like how do you fill that time? I typically fill that time with re-watching the same shows I've already seen 5,000 times. It's actually so funny that you bring up like relaxing and like taking time off and like giving myself time to rest. I literally just had therapy today and my therapist asked me that same question. She said, So what are you? It sounds like you're really busy right now. Like, what are you doing to take care of yourself? And I said, um drinking copious amounts of caffeine and then feeling like my heart's gonna explode.

unknown

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

Um, so if I'm not working in some capacity, I'm generally like in my bed with my rescue dogs and my old dogs and watching TV. I'm currently re-watching Bones for the like 4,000th time. My husband literally was like, Oh, we're rewatching this again. Super. And I was like, it's the first time of the year. Okay, leave me alone. So I generally watch TV when I am in the throes of writing and editing and all of those things. Have you seen Psych? Okay, I tried Psyche. It was one of those things that I just I got to a certain point and then I was like, okay, I just can't, like, this isn't catching my attention enough. Um, so I got through probably the first two seasons, but I haven't watched it all the way through. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Maybe eventually you might want to try it again. Get back to it. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I love a good, I love a good cop drama. Medical dramas are like very hit or miss for me because I'm like very squeamish. Me too.

SPEAKER_01

I can't, I can't handle them. I like the drama part of it. So that's why like cop shows are more like detective cop shows. Anything like that is definitely more my thing.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Anything that's like too gory or gruesome, which is hilarious because of how not graphic, but like violent the the Harmony series can be at points. I'm just too squeamish for those things. Like, there's even episodes of like criminal minds where I'm like, oh, I can't watch this. Like, I don't, I'm just gonna close my eyes and pretend like this isn't happening.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, or like anytime they're in the autopsy room, I always just look away.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yep, yep. I'm like, God.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I get that. But I like the rest of it. So I mean, it's still worth a watch and it's still fun. But yeah. 100%. 100%. I can't do too gory either. Okay, yay. It's hard to find people like that sometimes. They're like, yes, I can watch medical shows while eating.

SPEAKER_00

And I'm like, no. No, no. I tried to watch the pit because my mom and my brother were like hyping up the pit. And I watched like the first five minutes, and they were like literally, and I was like, oh, I'm out. I can't do that. I'm out, it's too much. I'm I can't do this.

SPEAKER_01

Me either. Yeah. So you said that you were working on Harmony Book Three. Whoa. Is that your current work in progress right now? Oh, what a question. Yes. You don't have to give me too many details. No, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00

It's just I think what people classify as a work in progress varies person to person. True. So I have several works in progress right now. So, like I mentioned, my next release, my summer release of 2026, is actually with my editor right now and is in the second round of edits. So that's technically a work in progress. Book two of the Harmony series is going to Beta Readers next week. Trickshot and Lugnut's book, which is also technically a work in progress.

SPEAKER_01

I was about to ask you if they were next. So they were answering their question. Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_00

Trickshot, worry, fear not anyone who has who has read the first book of the Harmony series Songbird, Trickshot and Lugnut are book number two. Um and they're also coming uh so long as all schedules and things work out in 2026 as well. So you don't have to wait too, too long for their story, but that's a work in progress. And then I did start writing Firewall's book. Her book is the third book of the series. I have the first four chapters done, and so that's a work in progress. So it's it's I laugh when people ask me, like, what's your current work in progress? Because it's literally multiple open manuscripts on my desk right now, which is kind of how I prefer it to be. I like having multiple things to keep myself busy. So yeah, I have technically in the realm of works in progress, three different titles as works in progress at different stages of the progress, you know, timeline, if you would.

SPEAKER_01

So as an indie author, since you're in charge of everything in the realm of all of those books, how do you keep up with multiple projects at a time? Do you have like a checklist or how how do you balance those?

SPEAKER_00

So I actually have a massive wall calendar. It's legitimately, I'm not even making this up, the big ass calendar. That's literally what it's called. And it is all of 2026 in one view. It goes January to December, top to bottom, and then one through however many days, 30, 31, left to right. So I use lots of calendars, keep myself straight and organized. But I also have my virtual assistant, personal assistant, whatever you want to call them, my second brain, um, Jessie, whose handle is at chapter one PA, who helps me keep things straight. So she helps me manage my arcs. She helps me manage my street team and my Discord, and she helps me, you know, schedule things on TikTok. And she reminds me, like, hey, did you see that Trick Shot goes out to beta readers next week? Have you started organizing that? And I'm like, oh, no, I did not. I need to do that. So I have a lot of visual supports uh that help me, but I also have a second human who I kind of will go to her and say, hey, I'm telling you this. I'm also putting it on my calendar, but like I'm also telling you so that way it doesn't get forgotten about. And I also just have this like cyclical kind of process that I follow with all of my books, which helps a lot in terms of staying on track with all of the things and making sure that everything gets done. But calendars and also having other brains to kind of store your information in helps a lot.

SPEAKER_01

That makes sense. Cause I was just thinking, like, oh my gosh, that's that many different covers and you know, uh character art submissions and all of that in addition to yes.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And the thing about it is like, and I say, and I I just want to add this caveat to this conversation in case there are other indie authors listening. You do not have to be as extreme as I am being. Okay. Like that is so fine. You do not need to have that many coals in the fire because it is a lot and it does sometimes feel very overwhelming. But I've also at this point published seven different books. That's amazing. So I'm I write, it's not new to me, right? And I didn't start at this spot. I didn't start with the ability to manage all of these projects all at the same time. I remember when I was about to publish Mending Me, which was my second book, the first book of the Nat 20 series. And Divine Sense, the second book in the series, was with my editor. And I was trying to write the third book, and my brain was just so stuffed. Like I literally couldn't handle it. Um, and so I was like, I just need to wait. Like, I just need to let Mending Me get out and be in the world and move on and just give myself that space. But now I'm like, okay, I have this and I have this and I have that. So you don't have to be on the same level. That's fine. Like, you don't have to be as psycho about it as I am. It's really okay.

SPEAKER_01

I actually appreciate you saying that because I feel like a lot of authors probably compare themselves, but also when you get to the point of having published seven books, you kind of have a working process that you know you can just plug and play to an extent.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, and that's exactly what it is. And it's it's a process, like I said, it's a cyclical, like it's the same process I follow with every single thing. And the other thing to keep in mind is that these books that are, you know, current open work in progresses are books I wrote last year. Like these are not books I'm currently writing. The books that I'm currently writing, trick, or I'm sorry, firewall's book that I'm currently writing is not coming out until 2027. And I and that's on purpose because then you're not feeling like you're on a deadline, you're on a crunch, you you have to write really fast. I am way ahead of the game and I know that that is such an anomaly. It is okay. You don't have to be as crazy as I am. It's really okay. I just personally prefer my brain can finally take an exhale when I know that I am ahead. I was always that kid growing up in school where a teacher would be like, you have two weeks to do this final project. I would go home that day and do it because I just like my brain didn't like open loops. That really stresses me out. So I just like to work ahead as much as I can. So take the permission slip from me, myself, and I. You don't have to be as crazy as I am. It's really okay.

SPEAKER_01

I'm the same way. And I think that I mean, there's always gonna be a random snag, like someone went on vacation or something took longer, or you know, someone brought up a comment that you're like, oh my gosh, now that's opening up Pandora's box and I have to like tear this apart. So it's impossible when you're on such a tight deadline to not get stressed out.

SPEAKER_00

Right, right, which is why I write so far in advance. Like I said, everything I'm writing in 2026 is not coming out until 2027. So if those things happen, right, hits the fan, things get delayed, whatever, whatever, it's like, okay, it's not the end of the world. I still have time because my projects for this year are taken care of. True.

SPEAKER_01

That's a good way to look at it. Yeah. Giving everyone tips. Yes. You may not be able to answer this. But on Lug Nut and Trick Shots book, do you have any tropes that you would like to share?

SPEAKER_00

Oh my God, yes. I'm a hundred percent okay to like spill the beans, mostly because I've already spilled some of these beans in past Instagram posts. Not that anyone is seeing anyone's content these days because engagement is so bad across the board right now on Instagram. Again, if you're listening to this and your engagement sucks, it's okay. It's it's going around. It's not just you, it's literally all of us. But yes, I would love to share some insider's scoop of Trick Shot and Lugnut. So it's a hundred percent an extended friends to lovers situation. These two have known each other long before Songbird enters the fold, um, and long before Songbird's story starts. And so it's an extended friends to lovers. If you love angst and you love mutual pining and you love just this like yearning for one another, and it's not just him, it is also her. These two yearn and long and pine, and there's angst between the both directions. Okay. It's not just I know, I know readers are like, where are men who yearn? It's like, no, these two yearn for it is mutual, mutual yearning for the good, like first chunk of their book. I personally wouldn't call it a slow burn, but there are people out there calling Songbird a slow burn, which I also don't agree with. So some people might say that it's a slow burn. I personally don't think that it is. Very much, again, both ways, touch them and die, blah blah vibes big time. Like that actually does happen. I'm just gonna give that away. I'm not gonna say who does what, but someone gets touched and someone gets died. I'm just gonna put that out there right now. And it's lots of found family, and there's lots of family turmoil, and there's lots of it's in my brain, the Harmony series kind of follows these retellings of classic stories. So to me, Songbird is a modern day retelling of Robin Hood, right? Vigilante against the corrupt government, stealing their money, giving it to the poor, blah, blah, blah, blah. Trick Shot and Lugnut 100% are a modern-day retelling of Romeo and Juliet, which says a lot about them and their backstories that readers don't yet know about, but you will come to find in their book. Their book, I was just going, I just got it back from sensitivity readers because Lugnut is a wheelchair user. Three cheers for highlighting and spotlighting disabled bodies because that's so important. I'm so excited to um have worked with these two girls from Happily Ever Accessible to make this happen. How did you find them? They were actually recommended to me. I was in the early stages of writing their story when I was still on threads, lol, posted, you know, does anyone have any recommendations for sensitivity readers? And I used the improper terminology, and I said, uh, for people who are wheelchair bound, because when I grew up, that was the term that you used wheelchair bound. That's actually not the proper terminology anymore. You say wheelchair user, because most often than not, people aren't typically bound to their, they use their wheelchair, right? And so I had someone reach out to me and they recommended Gretchen and Jess. And they are just two wonderful human beings. If you are looking to be more accessible, whether it's in your writing or in your events, they are really big on bringing accessibility to anyone. And I'm really excited for that to kind of be like a main highlight of this story and showcasing and spotlighting this community that very rarely, not, I shouldn't say rarely, because it does happen, but not often enough, in my opinion, gets the spotlight and is seen as attractive and desirable and sexy and alluring and desirable and all of those things. So yeah, Trick Shot and Lugnut's book is I love them. My sensitivity readers love them. And I'm so excited that so many people are so excited for them. And I can't wait for their book to be out.

SPEAKER_01

I was gonna say listeners are so tired of me saying this, but Friends to Lovers is my favorite. So yes, very excited. Um now I'm gonna ask you. So on sensitivity readers, I feel like you've had them for almost every one of your books. When do you decide? Okay, I was gonna say, when do you decide, like if you were writing a book and you weren't gonna have sensitivity readers versus having them? Like at what point do you go, okay, I need someone else to step in and look at it?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So the only book I have not had sensitivity readers on is Feels Like Coming Home. And honestly, because it was my debut novel and I didn't know they existed. And I think everyone will have a different point of view on this, which I can respect and we can have respectable differing opinions on things. I think if you are writing about an experience or a community that you do not have or you have not lived, you need to have someone come in and read for you. And, you know, for Mending Me, I had two Latina readers read for Hank because he's Mexican-American. For Colby, I had seven different sensitivity readers read because he's black. Uh, Malcolm, I had multiple readers who have lived with either addiction or loving someone who struggles with addiction, as well as an Asian American, read my story. For Conrad, I had a close friend of mine who's gay, he's a gay man, uh, read for their story. So I think the point in which you, and same for for the Harmony series, I've had multiple different sensitivity readers reading for Lugnut because he is a disabled human and I am not. And I think there are variations and kind of different points in which you say, Yeah, I need to have someone on this book, and no, I don't really think it's necessary. To me, it is when you are writing about a community or an experience that you do not have yourself because you don't know, right? You don't know really. And to me, always for every book I've ever written, the well-being of my readers is always top priority. And I never want to write something ever that is going to unintentionally upset someone or misrepresent someone, which is why working with sensitivity readers has always been a priority to me. And yeah, I just think that that's every author is different. And I always I say this, I think it's always important for readers to assume best intent. I find it very hard to believe unless an author or a writer or a personality or famous person, whatever, has come out and like made their true colors scene. I find it very hard to believe that someone intentionally wrote something to do harm to others, right? Um, more often than not, it's an honest mistake or a misstep that no one has been made aware of. So I think that line though of when to bring someone in and not bring someone in is different for everyone. For example, for my next contemporary series, the FMC is a psychologist. And so I'm literally having someone write, or not write, but read, sensitivity read from that point of view because I don't work that job. I don't know. And I and I had someone, I had someone who um lived an experience of losing someone in the line of duty because it's a firefighter romance, read from that experience to just double check and make sure that things are aligned and things aren't kind of going in any which way, because that's important. And it's important to just back check your work and make sure that you're not misrepresenting or unintentionally doing harm that you never intended for in the beginning. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, great thought. Now that you said firefighter romance, I'm sorry, I was gonna get us on track with Solomon, but I have to ask you. So, how did you decide to go with Firefighter? And also, why um why did you want to continue a series after the Harmony series? Like, why not put a standalone in there? What made you say, okay, I need a new series?

SPEAKER_00

My brain is always working 11,000 steps ahead of itself. I can tell you every book I'm releasing for the next three and a half, four years. It's already planned, it's already mapped. That's just how my brain works. Again, you don't have to be as crazy about it as I am. And you're writing a year in advance. So that makes sense. It makes sense there, right? So I've known for the last two-ish years, a year and a half, that this was going to be my kind of plan. Ironically enough, the Harmony series was a late addition to my publishing schedule. I had no recollection, idea, inkling of this series prior to November-ish, end of November of 2024. And the series came to me and I was like, I have to write this story. I have to write this book. And then I brought it up to my husband and that whole sort of whole thing. Well, I'm sure we'll probably get there. But I had already planned on writing my next series, um, the First Responder series, which is kicks off with a firefighter ex psychologist romance. And you actually meet these two characters at the end of True Sight, my the final book in the Nat 20 series. So these aren't new characters. Now, something for listeners is my books do not feature kids. Okay. My characters don't have kids in Canon. If you want to believe that they go off and fornicate and have lots of babies, that's fine. I don't write that in their books. So for me, a very often done thing is second generation romance, where, you know, the preceding series of one series is the kids of that were had in the, you know, series before that, if you're following my logic. I don't have that opportunity. So this is my version of a second generation series um preceding the not 20 series. So I knew and I've had this idea. I mean, come on, firefighters are hot. Firefighters are so sexy. Um, they're so good looking. They're so charming. I just I love them. Do I know any firefighters? No, but I in my delusional brain. When I see, yeah, when I see them walking around the grocery store, I'm like, they are cute. Like, what if? So yeah, I've I've had this thought in my brain for a long time. So I'm calling it the first responder series because the first two books are firefighters and the third book actually follows a police officer. I for the longest time I was going to name it something else, but I'm like, that doesn't work because the third book is not a firefighter, he's a cop. So the first responder series. And I'm kind of doing this dual release because Songbird's book was talking to me so loudly that I was like, I have to write this book right now. And again, my girl Jessie, who is my second brain, was like, I think you should dual release these series. Cause I've gotten that question too. Why are you doing two separate series, you know, interchangeably? Um, and that is to give my homies, my readers who love the soft and cozy romance, tried and true, they don't want anything else, the opportunity to still. Get those books from me while also giving dystopian romance at the same time. Um, I didn't want anyone to have to wait over a year uh while I released the Harmony series for the soft and cozy romance that I've kind of established myself as a writer in. That's kind of how we got there.

Songbird by Rebecca Wrights and S.L. Wrights

SPEAKER_01

Thank you for talking through your insights. That's really helpful. And uh Jess is awesome. She was my proofreader. Yes, I love her. Yeah, she's the best. Just a shout out to her. Of course, she'll be linked in the show notes and anyone you mentioned, sensitivity readers, anyway. And they'll all be in the show notes. Amazing. Yeah. Gotta give everyone some resources. Talking a little bit more about Songbird specifically. So, like you were saying, you're normally kind of more in the contemporary romance space. So tell me a little bit more about the shift and becoming co-authors with your husband and how that whole thing kind of came about.

SPEAKER_00

The Harmony series and Songbird, and this is not new news, I've said this before, was very much influenced by the 2024 presidential elections in the United States. That's not a that's not a secret. When you read the book, that's not a secret, that's very obvious. I was wrapping up writing, yeah, writing True Sight, Conrad and Henry's book from the Nat 20 series. And I was kind of marinating and mulling over where I was going next, what I was doing next. And at the time, my husband was watching Arcane. And I've never seen the series, so I've only ever seen it as like, oh, I'm making a snack and he has it on TV or whatever, like walking through the living room. And I just loved this idea of strong women who did not give a flying F about their actions, their behaviors, because they so truly believed in what they were doing that they were willing to do anything to fight the good fight, right? Um, and this idea kind of stemmed from the small glimpses of that show. And, you know, I was marinating on it and I was thinking, you know, all these different things. And I went, I was my husband and I a couple days later went to go get coffee and I was explaining it to him because he's usually the first person who hears about my like book ideas. Forced proximity will do that to you. And I was like, you know, I have this idea, these women, there's this city, and it's kind of dystopian, it's not dark, like nothing, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, okay, yeah, like this could happen or this could happen. And then I kid you not, two-ish three days later, he came to me and he's like, I have the entire book mapped out. He's like, I have the entire outline, like, here you go. And I was like, Wait, what? And that's kind of where this co-writing situation stemmed from. Was I came up with the idea of these characters, and on a couple of walks with our dogs, I was like, we could call them this or that. Like, these are their names that are coming to my head. Like, here is the problem. And then he came to me with the outline, and I was like, oh, this is real. Like, this is a real book. Like, this is a real fledgling story that we could turn into something really freaking awesome. And that's just kind of how it came to be. And so I started writing the story. And again, as I'm like in the middle of writing it, I had this idea. I was like, okay, how do we get people to care? Right. This is a new city. How do we get people to care and understand this city without it feeling clunky, like world building or too much, you know, data dumping, anything like that. And I came up with the idea of these little intrudes in the story and these little sections at the top of each chapter, which kind of gave you insight of the history of harmony and the characters and the atmosphere and all of those things. And he came to me and he's like, What if we have the intrudes as we call them? They're essentially like ex excerpts. He's like, What if they were from Songbird's mom? And I said, Cool, write them. You write them. You, you help like make it happen. These are your ideas, make it happen. And so he likes to joke that he's 10% of 100 of this book and I'm the other 90. And I would argue that it's easily 75-25. The the book, I wrote the book. The original concept of the book was mine. But in terms of the plot, what happened, some of the larger, you know, driving things that take place, the interludes, the little chapter headers are all him. And so that's it. It was my idea and my pushing for his name to be on the book and me calling him a co-writer. And it just continues to be this like mutual thought partner exchange back and forth. Uh, the same thing happened with Trick Shot's book when I was writing that book last year. What if this happened? I'm feeling stuck here. What would you do? And it's very much our series and our books, and it's been really fun to like work with him in that way. And that's kind of how this series seems to be going. Seems to be going. I mean, I'm I'm still writing book three, so we'll see. But that's kind of how that all came to be.

unknown

Nice. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So do you think that this is kind of like a one series thing or that he'll want to continue working with you in the future on other stuff? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

I think right now it's it's the current focus is to finish the current series um and sort of see where it goes and see what happens. Do you know how long it's gonna be? I do. It's going to be at least three books. Okay.

unknown

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00

It's we're you're getting you're getting a book per character.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Um, and so yeah, it's the current focus is to get the books that we have planned done and see where it goes from there. I don't know. I think if he were to come to me and say I have this idea, or if I come, I come up with another idea and I take it to him and he's like, oh yeah, like this or this or this, I'm not close off to the idea of continuing to write with him. It's been so fun and so cool to watch him, you know. I have cute little videos because I'm a weirdo and I like have little videos of him like typing on his computer or like signing books or like helping me prep stuff for our books. And it's just, it's so fun. It's kind of how I imagine, because I also don't have kids myself, like parents taking their kids to Disney for the first time and being like, wow, so fun. You know what I mean? Like that's kind of how I feel. Like watching my husband like participate in this experience with me is is so fun. So rad.

SPEAKER_01

That's so cool. That could almost be a contemporary romance in itself. But I know, I know. Someone read it I think. Someone else could take that idea. I don't I don't have time, I don't have space.

unknown

No, no.

SPEAKER_01

So for readers who haven't read a dystopian romance before, um, just kind of how does it differ from contemporary and like kind of some of the genre conven conventions of it? Because I know that, you know, most people have probably read like a YA dystopian that tends towards romance, but it's not necessarily in the romance genre. Like this is a little bit different.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. So dystopian romance, adult dystopian romance. Let me just make that real clear. Not like YA. Yeah, this is not YA. To me, it is a dystopian book where a romantic subplot is important to the overall plot of the story. So in Songbird and in all of the stories, the setting is dystopian, right? This is post-the world essentially blowing itself up for making it things a lot shorter than what it is in the books, and post-corrupt government taking over and kind of ruining the last stronghold of the world, where there are certain subclasses that some are better seen as better than others. People are living underground because they're literally just kind of giving up all hope. Uh, there's a lot of crime and violence and adversity and lack of equity and all of those things that you get in a traditional dystopian book. Things are bleak, things are hard, things are very edgy and dirty and and gritty, if you would. But with it being dystopian romance, the main characters in this story, and this is a dual POV, so you get both character POVs, there is a heavy romance plot line to that. So for a lot of people who haven't picked up dystopian romance or they say immediately, oh, that's really not my vibe, I'm going to encourage you to try anyway, because if you like romance, contemporary romance, I have heard and seen and gotten the feedback multiple times from readers who told me that they still loved Songbird's book. There are a lot of crossover genre tropes that you get from contemporary romance and dystopian romance. Um, really, the biggest difference is the setting is a little grittier, the characters are a little edgier. And in this case, specifically, there's more violence because you don't tip, I mean, dark romance, yes, but this is a dark romance. Like true contemporary romance, as much violence as you get in this story is pretty much unheard of. That typically tips it into dark romance. Uh, that's not this story. So that's in my own words, kind of the variation between contemporary romance and dystopian romance. And why I still believe, truly to my core, that contemporary romance readers, those diehard readers who are like contemporary or nothing, I still think you're gonna like this story because there's a lot of those same tropes in this book and in this series.

SPEAKER_01

It just kind of has um a little more action and a little bit more like like I hate to say world building because it's not intense, difficult world building. It's just there are rules and there are things that happen that aren't like a contemporary romance, but it's still easy to follow. It's not like you're reading a high fantasy book that you're trying to figure out at all. Like it's it's really easy to understand.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's more like, and it's not even sci-fi because there's no like crazy technology or computers or anything like that. Like there's no eight, like there's none of that. So it's just set in a future time that is very reminiscent of modern society. Yeah. So they're they're very to me, Songbird specifically is a great parallel to contemporary romance. There's just more people killing one another, but not a bad way. They only bad people die in these books, I promise.

SPEAKER_01

I was gonna say it's actually kind of a good way to describe it. So I have a friend that she asked me for the most random book recommendation. Yeah. Yeah. She'll just throw out, like, do you know of a blank blank blank with blank? And so I'll try to think of something for her. And I was actually today, she was like, okay. She said, I want something dystopian. She only reads romance, she only wants to read romance. So she was like, I want something dystopian. She was like, I she loves The Last of Us. So she was like, I want something that kind of has that feeling. She's like, if it had an age gap, that would be great. It's just like, well, so it doesn't actually have like zombies, but if you want like dystopian romance with an age gap, yeah, here you go. I think so. Yeah, there you go. It's kind of that feeling, but not zombies and not intense and not fantasy and not sci-fi, but just romance with an edge.

SPEAKER_00

And it's kind of hard to describe. You know what I mean? Like when I first released it, or when I first uh talked about it, people are like, okay, so dark romance. And I'm like, no, not dark romance, dystopian romance. It is like its own thing. So that's why I say I I genuinely believe contemporary romance readers will still like this book because it's very reminiscent of the books that they love.

SPEAKER_01

So a little bit more on kind of the danger element, because you know, Shaw's a detective and Songbird's a vigilante slash serial killer with the purpose, with a heart. Yes. I feel like it sounds very dark when I say that, but it's not, it's not. Right. It's so hard. It's so hard. But um, okay, so for all of those kind of external dangers going on around them, the entire book, does it make it, did it make it harder or easier to develop like that intimacy between the characters versus like the Not 20 series or some of the other Morlight Herda books?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so it's actually funny. I found writing the dynamics between Songbird and Shaw to be so fun, yet so hard. I, for probably 80% of writing their book, hated their book. I literally hated. I mean, I texted Jesse multiple times. I hate the story. I was like, I hate writing this book. I dreaded sitting down and writing it, like so seriously. I had to force myself. I like made a challenge for myself. I was like, just do one chapter a day. Like just one chapter to 10 days, you can do this. Like it's okay. It's not forever. Eventually the book will be over. I was so used to writing stories where they immediately got along. And I was like, okay, now kiss. And my husband and Jesse were like, they hate each other. They're getting together too soon. They need to hate each other longer. And I'm like, but why? Like, please can you just be happy and fall in love already? And so I actually at one point scrapped about 11,000 words of the story because it wasn't working. They were getting together too soon. To me, writing the intimate parts was really fun. I mean, almost dying and then sleeping with your enemy is a very exciting thing to write and a very exciting thing, I'm sure, to participate in. Not that I would know, but their dynamic, the enemies to lovers dynamic, was super tough for me to write. And I really worried that like I didn't do it well because you sometimes hear in the internet sphere of like, you know, the author said it was enemies to lovers, but really it's just dislike to love. And I was like, no, no, no. Like they get together multiple times and she still hates him. Like, I don't think you understand. Like, she still threatens to kill him. She still tells her best friend she can shoot him in the head if he does anything bad. Like, I don't think you get it. But that was really hard for me to get. But once I got it, and once I got there, I was like, okay, I love this story. And now their story is one of my favorites I've ever written. But yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't easy coming off of like these soft and cozy, like, everything's great, beautiful, rainbows, butterflies, cupcakes, and sprinkles. It just, it was really, really hard. But once I got there, I was like, okay, this is actually, this is actually, is this good? Am I a good writer? Like, okay, I actually don't hate this anymore.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, I can get, I can get behind this. I do think enemies to lovers is like one of the hardest to write and people are the most critical of for sure. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

So if anyone out there is like, um, this is actually, please just don't tell me, okay? Because I just don't want to know. If you don't think that it's just keep your opinions to yourself.

SPEAKER_01

But that's a great thing about the series is let's say enemies to lovers isn't for you. Well, Friends to Lovers is the next book. So, you know, and then there's gonna be a different on the book three. So you get a variety based on what you actually want. Okay, so how do you kind of balance like that hope, especially right now when it was based off of what it was based off of? How do you balance the hope and the darkness to make it seem like there is hope to be had?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so Songbird ends unresolved yet resolved, right? There are still open loops in this story and in this series because this is a true series. I want to make that very clear. This is not an intra-connected standalone situation where you can read them out of order. I'm not re-explaining stuff in book two, book three, okay? It's not happening. So you gotta read them in order. So I think the way that you found find that balance is making the weight of the issue heavy enough to feel visceral, to feel personal. And the way that you balance that is within the relationships, all of them, not just the main relationship of the book, right? So in Songbird specifically, you have this, these different dynamics of these characters. The relationship that Songbird has with Trick Shot is not the same that Songbird has with Lugnut, which is also not the same that she has with Firewall. And then you have her and Shaw, which is a completely different dynamic. But I think that you find hope in a story through those relationships, right? Why are they fighting the big bad for one another, for the other people, for people like Gertie, who is this uh kind of third-party, secondary, tertiary character who I can promise everyone listening, if you've read the book, nothing happens to Gertie. I've already been, my life has already been threatened multiple times. She's safe, I promise. I've had multiple people be like, if anything happens to this woman, you better hope I not, I don't, I don't ever meet you in real life because we will have a fight. I promise nothing is going to happen to her. Um, I actually have a really fun side quest happening for her. And I'm not gonna go too far down. She's gonna be just fine, I promise. But that's how you balance it, right? You have this main focus of this big bad, right? The the main villain, and you balance that by having funny interactions between these characters, comedic relief, these moments of found family or teasing and banter and laughter and just easy, soft interactions that to the plot don't really change or alter anything too drastically, but for the reader and for the story, soften it a little bit and make it more emotionally charged and heavy in a good way that kind of breeds new hope, right? It it helps you to root for these characters and leave you questioning like, who can I trust, who can I not trust, and and what's gonna happen next. Like, I need book two because I have to find out if this actually happened or if this person's good or bad or whatever, and then like what happens between these characters and you know, all of those things. Joy is resistance. Yes. It is, it really, really is.

SPEAKER_01

I did think of that question. I was okay, good. Okay. So when you're writing, if you don't like it, like in in the case of Songbird, yeah, do you just keep kind of riding through it to get to a point of that I have something that I can fix versus just going, okay, I can't.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So I think that that's a hard question. And I think different people would tell you different answers. Yep. I think for me, the reason I kept writing was because I didn't want to let my husband down. Because he was so excited about the story, and we saw where it was going. And I told myself, I don't want to let him down. I think if it were any other story that he wasn't part of, I probably would have walked away. I'm not even lying, I probably would have walked away. But I remember telling myself, I'm sure I texted this to Jesse being like, she was like, then walk away, start something. And I was like, no, I don't, I literally don't want to let him down. Like he's so excited for the story. And so I kept pushing, and I'm glad that I did because it wasn't that I didn't like the story. It's that I was struggling with that dynamic. And once I finally pinpointed that, I was like, okay, well, eventually they're going to get along. Eventually they're going to get to where I want them to be right now. I just need to work through this discomfort and keep pushing. But I know that there are stories out there that, and I've I've seen authors talk about this where you get, you know, five chapters or 10 chapters or heck, like almost done with the story. And you're like, I literally hate this thing so much I can't, I can't force myself to. And that's okay. I think I just continued and pushed forward because I didn't want to let him down. Yeah. And I got, and I did. Once I got past a certain point, I was like, okay, I'm driving, I'm grooving, I love this, I see where it's going. I just had to push past my discomfort of writing something that was unfamiliar to me. Which I think helped me to grow. Yeah. And it definitely helped me to grow as a writer, is uh pushing past that discomfort and and writing it anyway.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, like you said, everyone's gonna be different. So Yes. 100%. 100%. You gotta trust your gut. Mm-hmm. That makes sense. Especially when you are, I mean, you are the author, you are the publisher, you are everything.

SPEAKER_00

So it is all up to you. Yeah. That's the beautiful thing, though, about being an independently published author is the rules are made up. Like, I don't think I can say that often or loud enough. The rules are made up. I know that there are people out there who have 50, 40,000 million billion followers, and you're like, you see that they're making billions and millions of gajillions of dollars, and they're indie authors, right? And you're like, okay, I have to do everything like they're. No, you don't. No, you do not. The rules are made up. Just tell yourself that when you get stuck and you're not sure. The rules are made up. Do what feels good.

SPEAKER_01

I was gonna say you're completely spinning tired.

SPEAKER_00

Say it with me, kids. The rules are made up. You can do whatever feels good to you because you're the boss, and that is a very beautiful thing. Yep.

SPEAKER_01

And I feel like some people get really caught up on like all the before stuff, but at the end of the day, when the book is published, it's going to be out forever and no one's gonna remember how many arc readers you had or how long your pre-orders were, or anything like that. If you got rushed towards the end, no one cares.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and the thing is, is no one has to know. You don't have to tell people. I have never, I don't think, if I have, I've blacked it out. I don't think I've ever said how many arc readers I've had, how many pre-orders I've gotten, how many pages read I'm at. You know what, you want to know why it doesn't matter. It doesn't change the fact that I have to wake up tomorrow, take care of my dogs, work my job, and like live my life, you know? So, but it you're right. You mentioned this, it's hard not to get caught up in that stuff. So you just gotta do what feels good to you. And you're right, books are forever. Like the the weight of a launch is only as heavy as you make it because a book could flop, quote unquote, at launch, but then go viral in three years and get you like a multi-million dollar publishing deal. Like, go off. You thought that that book sucked. It did not, it just made you a lot of money. Yeah. So you just gotta trust and have fun.

SPEAKER_01

And just put it out there. I was just you know what point it needs to be out there. Just put it out there. Just put it out there. Exactly. I'm ending with hopefully an interesting question. So, what is the weirdest search term that you typed into Google while you were researching this?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, listen, if the FBI ever actually tracks my search history, they're gonna think. That I am like killing people in my free time in my backyard. I am not. I did a lot of Googling for Songbird's book. Things like what is the most painful forms of torture? And what are outlawed forms of information gathering? And um, how long does someone have to perform a certain act before someone dies? Like lots of lots of things in that vein of like, how long can you withstand being waterboarded before you die? Like things like a hundred percent, like things that any armed police officer would be like, this girl's literally planning on killing her husband. I am not. I'm so not. I love my husband. I'm literally just researching for a book. And I think that's the craziest that I got was researching like different forms of torture or killing people or, you know, things like things like that. Because I don't know. I mean, I could make it up, but I'm very much trying to make things as realistic-ish as possible in my books. So I wanted it to be legit.

SPEAKER_01

I was gonna say, unfortunately, I think I know about like half of that stuff from true crime podcasts. Because you know, they just say it in their monotone voices, and then a family member or a friend would be like, you know, they would say something like, Yeah, how long do you have to choke someone? I'd be like, Oh, it's this many minutes. I don't remember anymore because I haven't listened to them in years. But back then, and then they're like, Oh my gosh, how do you know that? It's like I promise it's it's true crime stuff or anything like that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's just like thrown out there. At what point does the body start to turn like yellow and purple after being garotted? Like, what does a body look like? Like, listen, I am not a scientist, nor am I a murderer. I am just a romance author.

SPEAKER_01

I was gonna say, I took like an entomology class in college and we had a whole section on like bugs and decomposition. Yeah. Like, yeah, I probably know more than yeah. The the average person, yes. Not by choice. That one was not by choice. I was I got a little bit squeamish with that one because there was a lot. Anyway, thanks. Sitting in a room that smells like mothballs and hearing that, I'm like, mm, this just makes it worse. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I get that.

SPEAKER_01

But thank you so much for joining me today, Rebecca. And that's it for today. Thanks for listening to Where I Left Off, a bookish podcast. You can visit Rebecca's site, follow her on social media, and of course, purchase her novels through the link in the show notes. And as always, you can find them also on Kindle Unlimited.