Head Over Wheels with Author B.R. Goodwin

Thanks to B.R Goodwin for chatting with me about the newest release in her closed door romance series, Head Over Wheels. 

Support B.R.:

• Read Head Over Wheels
• Read Forget Me Knot
• Read Grits and Glamour
• Follow her on Instagram

For links to the books discussed in this episode, click the link here to take you to the Google Doc to view the list. 

For episode feedback, future reading and author recommendations, you can text the podcast by clicking the "Send us a message button" above. 

For more, follow along on Instagram @whereileftoffpod.

Transcript

Welcome

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Welcome back. I'm Kristen Balls, and you're listening to Where I Left Off, a Bookish Podcast. And today I'm joined by the author of Romance on the Menu, Sugar Tree, and what remains series, BR Goodwin. And we are talking about her latest release called Head Over Wheels, which is the second book in the Happy and Honey Hill series. Thank you so much for joining me today. Yes, hi. I'm so glad to be here. So you recently moved.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

Tell me a little bit about that. Yes. So my husband is in the Air Force, and we were um, Kristen, you and I met in I was living in DC. I think you're in Maryland, right? Or no.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

No, I'm in Texas. I actually uh came to Maryland. Yeah, I flew to see Stacy.

unknown 0:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

I don't think I realized that. Okay, I'm just living in a different sphere altogether. So I lived in DC, you and I met in Maryland, and then we just moved to Germany, to Western Germany, at the beginning of the month of January. So we've been here just at a month long. It's really been a crazy, crazy transition.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

I'm sure that's insane packing everything up. And for your author business, does that change a lot of stuff? Because now everything's out of Germany and it does.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

So German, German customs are very strict. And um, for military spouses, like I have an American postal APO, but you're not allowed, you're not permitted to use it for anything for private businesses. So I can't do any direct sales for the next three years, which is like a huge, huge blow. I I didn't realize that was a c the case until about week two of being here. And I was like, oh no. So thankfully I have people like Stacy at Romance Landia that is helping me with some pre-orders, and I'm gonna try and come up with something to do so that I can direct sale because I really love like connecting and sending notes and stuff like that. And it's it's a little different, but not, you know, not impossible. Wow. Yeah. I mean, I had um the book released a couple of weeks after I moved here, and it was a great release. It wasn't, you know, um, I think it changes things just because I'm a considerable time difference than I'm used to. So I'm planning a lot of my content at different times. And then usually when people are active in like the Bookstagram and TikTok world, I'm asleep. So that's a little bit of a different thing, but it also just makes it where you focus your time very differently. So I find that I'm not on social media as much as I was because I just don't have to be. And then I can interact when I interact, and then I go to sleep and you all are just in it.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

As far as um book releases go, especially with this release, typically are you doing a lot of stuff like super close to release, or do you have it all so pre-planned in advance that it's like, ah, it's just it's releasing already?

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Yeah, I usually try to plan out the best that I can. I I usually start to tease about two to three months in advance, and then I have everything planned out. It just kind of depends. I had this time, it was it was, I mean, hindsight, I probably would never plan another release after an international move. Um, that was insane. That was really crazy. But it turned out that it took a lot of like, I can't control everything off the table. And I have a really, really amazing team that you can just count on and um that are just so supportive because it felt like it wasn't as hard as I had anticipated it to be.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

And kind of talking about, I mean, rom-coms and trying to bring levity to hard subjects, uh, kind of going a little bit more on head over wheels with your really funny lines. I laughed a lot when I was reading it. So yeah. So did you find that a lot of, in your opinion, your funniest lines kind of came in the first draft, or did those kind of come more in revisions after like readers had looked at it and you kind of tore it apart and put it back together?

SPEAKER_01 3:57

I really didn't know that this was weird until I started meeting other authors and hearing about their processes, but I only work with one draft. It's just a really clean first draft. And I will send that to my betas and say, okay, are you seeing anything that's really ugly in this? And um, they'll have notes and stuff, but generally, like I think because I work on it so long that it just kind of gets where it needs to go. And then I send it to my editor and I don't ever read it again. So I think I was telling you, like, I um sometimes it's always funny to me when a reader will be like, I loved this quote. And I'm like, Me too. I don't remember that I put that in there. Um, I am finding as I write more rom coms and they're interconnected, it is biting me in the butt a little bit because I'm having to go back and be like, what is a detail about this person? Like, if you only read the book one time, I don't feel like I know the characters, honestly, sometimes as well as my readers do. I have one reader like loves Forget Me Not, and she's read it like four or five times, which is so sweet. But sometimes I'm like, I should really send Tiffany a message and just find out like Dinah's favorite color was because I don't always remember the little details that you might need in another book, specifically in a series. But yeah, I work with one draft, one draft, and then I'm done and I don't want to see it again. Feels like too much. So my editor is amazing and she takes care of things for me really, really well.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

That is really cool. I mean, I just like hearing about your process, especially because it's so different. Cause I was because I think I was just talking to somebody the other day that was like, I do like six or seven drafts or no, and yeah, and then someone else was like, I do 13 drafts. I'm like, I'm stressed out for you.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Yes, I just don't. I one of my really good friends, Carrie Cotton, she writes these epic, long, like Viking romances. And she rereads hers like three times. And I just, I just can't. I don't know why. I just, I really part of it is, and I've said this to a couple people, like when they will send me a message and they're like, hey, I noticed that you used the wrong form of it's and it's another author. Just was like, hey, I don't know if you if you want to make this change in the document. There's like a misprint. And I'm like, if it made it through my editors for reads, my edits, and then the 70 women who on my team read it, then like I feel okay about it. I don't know. Like, there's just a piece of me that's like, I'm a human. There's gonna be things in there that are little human errors that it's fine. But I feel like I have I have a really good um support. My my beta readers are my writing partners, and they're very good at knowing how I write and saying, like, hey, I don't think this is actually where you should go with this. And I can make changes there. But outside of that, like I just think once you have the story in your head, there's not a lot that I want to change after, um, which may be to my own detriment.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

No, I I think it works. I mean, your process works for you. And I feel like to a certain extent also, you know, if you just like beat it into submission and then it's exhausting and then you feel like it's never perfect, then you're just never gonna get the book out. And then you're not gonna be able to publish because you're just 100%. So obsessed with second guessing it.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

I do think that's really true because there are so many people who ought that I know that are like, oh, one day I'm gonna like release the book. And I just say, release the book, just do it. Like it's never gonna be perfect. I am not a perfectionist. I'm not. Thankfully, my editor is. So we always she she will get into like sentence syntax and be like, I feel like maybe you should change this word. And sometimes I'm like, sure. And then sometimes I'm like, nope, I will not do it. Because I just feel like if you if you beat on that too much, eventually it's just like losing the nuances that you were going for in the first place. And like something I do think that is to my benefit is that I write Southerners who were just like, I don't want to say lackadaisical in their in their speech, but like very free speeched and not not super like like the English doesn't have to be perfect. Um, they don't have to be eloquent in everything. But I feel like if I hit the main points and the care I I think my books are very character driven. So that helps me a lot too, because I get to like fold into the characters and hopefully the readers are not looking for those tiny little things because they're just in the story and in the character-driven things rather than like, oh man, she missed this detail that she probably shouldn't should have in the fourth draft picked up. Nope. I was just having a good time. That's what I want. I'm like, I just want her to pick it up and be like, a good time.

Head Over Wheels by B.R. Goodwin

SPEAKER_00 8:27

Like you just feel good at the end of it, you know? That is the best feeling. So, talking a little bit more about head over wheels. So it is a rom com and I thought it was really funny. I got a lot of laughs out of it. Um, so do your funniest lines since you're only doing one draft. I guess they just come in the first draft. And is that like just what instantly comes to your head and you just type it out on paper, and that's kind of how your um humor comes about?

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Yeah, I think it's just how my brain works. I don't know. I I love in like everyday life to make people laugh. Like I like being silly. Um, I think some, I mean, sometimes there, I don't know if like I'm waiting in my brain, like as I'm writing this book, there are a couple of things that I'm gonna show you my process. Hold, hold for a minute, and I'll show you this weird little thing that I do. Oh, cool. Sorry, you get like a little, you know, I um make a circle chart that looks like this, and I have like jokes that I've thought would make sense to the character, like here on my little circle graph. And then um, and and not just jokes, but like things that are gonna make up that book. And then as I go through it, I start to like highlight it and say, okay, I made it through. That was like a good joke there. So I think as I come up with jokes, yeah. So this is grits and glamour. Like I had like bunnies. I don't know if you've read grits and glamour, but um the very first, the very first chapter she finds um what she calls a herd of bud bunnies on the side of the road, and then she like brings them to a job interview. So then I have like bunnies and interview, and I just like highlight as I come up as the ideas come, and then I'm like, oh, this would be a funny joke, you know. So I think maybe some of it is really in my planning stages where I'm like, okay, this is gonna be where the jokes hit, you know. So um I got like, for example, right now I'm writing the new one and I have this running joke about Animal Planet, um, because she lives on an alpaca farm and like animal documentaries, but she's at a PTA meeting. That's cute. And that like the women are like the animals on documentaries. I don't want to give, but like I have that written down, and I'm like, okay, I'm gonna play into that as much as possible. My husband always says, like, comedy is about repute repetition, like the more you say it, the funnier it is. So I just try to like really lean into those nuances of whatever is gonna make that character funny. And then, like, how many times can I make it actually funny? How many different ways can you say Gretchen, the green eye monster, is excited about something and in head of her wheels? Gretchen does the Harlem Shake. I think that's my favorite line in the whole silly book is like, Gretchen is pleased, she does the Harlem Shake. I'm like, that's so dumb, but it's just like such a funny like thing that I've had so many people. I don't know if you saw like the Gretchen sticker that I came up with, but a couple of my readers found like McDonald's or someone was giving out these like green monsters, and they're like, it's Gretchen. And I think one of them sending it to me like looks exactly like Gretchen. I'm like, that's so insane that people just cling on to like those silly things and they remember that more than the book itself.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

Exactly. And it makes it so much fun, and I also appreciate your usage of uh movie quotes.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

Oh I love movies, so yeah. Um, I love like 90s pop culture too, if you can't tell. So I'm constantly like the 90s rom-coms and Nacho Libre is like a big one in our home that gets quoted often. But I do love movies, so that's I I think it's just really like how can I make people listen to the music that I want them to listen to and appreciate the jokes that I like, and then like I just put it into a book? Like, do you want to feel like we're hanging out for an hour and a half? Read my book.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

So, how do you keep uh, especially with Brooke and Owen, because they have such an extensive past and they've known each other for so long? How did you kind of keep the pacing uh tight and not get too sucked into their past, but then also giving us like enough context that we understand kind of how deep their relationship goes? Such a good question.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

That one was a tough one. I will say that Headover Wheels was really difficult because I think I took a trope that people don't like. Like a lot of people don't like best friends to lovers because they're like, well, if they knew that they loved each other the whole lives, like why are they not together? And I really wanted it, I wanted someone to read it and be like, this makes sense. Do you know what I mean? Like, oh, she really, really is afraid. Yeah. And he really loves her enough to not push it. It was a really difficult thing to keep punching. And I usually have like one chapter that end up having to go and just completely erase where you're like, is the worst. And I did have to do that with head of a wheels where the pacing was wrong. For example, in this one, like they hiss earlier in this book than they do in most of my books. Oh wow. I need, I need it to be clear that one of them is completely invested. And I also feel like for my readers in particular, like marriage is not a halfway commitment. And I really wanted to lean into a different look of a marriage of convenience. Like, we're in this, and if we're in it, we're really in it forever. Like there isn't a divorce or an annulment at the end. So it needed to really be kind of a different marriage of convenience where he's like, hey, I want this to be real and like there's not an end date for me in it. It's hard to do because you're like, well, why didn't he do this before? But I think just really paying attention to those like emotional ties and dual point of view can be really great and really hard sometimes. But in this case, it was so good because you really are getting both of their sides and kind of seeing what her hesitations are and how he's just being so patient with her the whole time and just loving her in the way that he's always loved her, but now he's like, All right, I've had enough of this. Like, let's do this. So it was this one, the tension was hard to keep limited and like building up to a haircut is just the most insane. Like, I I truly was like, this will be the moment. How how long do you make it last?

SPEAKER_00 14:30

You know? I agree. Well, and it makes even more sense with Owen and Brooke in particular because they did have a moment when they were younger. So it's not like they've never reciprocated feelings. And then, of course, you know, things circumstances happen, not to spoil circumstances happened and they found themselves not ready at that specific point. So I think that also um helped. And of course, I love how Owen was like, I'm in it from moment one. Yeah. Yeah. Then you're not like, well, they just get together. You're like, he's just gotta convince her.

SPEAKER_01 15:03

Yeah, I I really hoped because I think that there are just readers who are just like not forgiving of those things. And you're never gonna make everyone happy. Like you just won't. Um, but when you're like pushing all of the tropes into one book, like that, I did not mean to have a marriage of convenience best friends, force proximity. Like, how many things can you do in one book? But I felt like it it did work for the two of them for whatever reason. Like it just came out really perfectly where I was like, oh, this actually just it felt like a little bit of a dance a couple of times, just because you're like, okay, well, even down to like the wedding, like how how much of a wedding do they have if he wants it to be real? And she's like, she wants it. She wants it, but she's afraid. So yeah, it was a it was a tricky little, it was a tricky little beast. But I I like the way it turned out.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Like I'm really pleased with how it turned out. And what was your favorite romantic gesture that Owen created for Brooke?

SPEAKER_01 15:59

I don't think when I was writing Owen, I did not realize like how deeply the man yearned until like I was halfway through and was like, oh no. He's really delightful. So I think I think him asking her every day to to marry him, like, will you be my wife? Will you be my wife today? Because it was just such a like beautiful example of like his ability to meet her where she's at and saying, like, hey, I like we're not rushing this at all. Like, I love you, I'm in this, and I want to be your husband right now, and like, let's deal with tomorrow, tomorrow. You know, I think that that's probably and and that's who he is across the board. But I I love that gesture that's like he didn't have to do any, he already loved her exactly as she was, and he didn't have to do anything like grand. The dude would just showed up every day, and I loved that so much. So, you know, you're like, yeah, I didn't mean to. Um, he's just so lovely. It actually makes me scary. Like, I loved Jack in Forget Me Not, and I was like, I will never write another like into L. Yeah. And then, well, like, I love Roman in Grits and Glamour. I was like, oh no. And then every time you write a new book, you're like, are they gonna love him? So like holy love. And I was actually really concerned that readers wouldn't love Brooke. So with all of my um beta readers, I was like, okay, here are some questions. Do you like Brooke? Because Owen is so, so wonderful. And you want women are very hard on women in books, um, because we want, you know, you want to like fall in love with the male. Um, and then we're just hard on the female leads. And um, I wanted them to be like, we get you, like we understand why you're struggling with this wonderful, wonderful man who wants to love you, which hopefully Emery's guy will live up to the hype.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

Keep it going. In your opinion, what was the most chaotic moment between them? Because you know, they have this whole game show thing going on. So there are a couple times where some crazy things happen.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

I honestly think their wedding is so chaotic because when they pull up, like the game show is, but when they pull up, and I loved like the player in the back has the IDS and he's like, I've got to go to the bathroom. And they pull up and he like juts out to go to the bathroom, and they're nervous, obviously. And then like their families are on the steps, and there's camera crews on the steps. And then, like, I just pictured the baseball team coming in, their giant band, and I felt like that was like the pure like, oh no, no, no, what's happening? So I think probably that's what comes to my mind first because the game show is meant to be chaos, right? Like it's meant to be uh I don't know if you anyone watches Beast Games, but be this book was born out of beast games. Um, because my family was obsessed and we were watching Beast Games and we're like, want to be fun. And that's meant to like psychologically damage you a little bit. But yeah, I think that their wedding was just like that perfect blip of chaos for me.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

Oh, also the another chaotic point was with especially was with the was it sushi that they had. Oh um, they caught the food poisoning. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

I actually so I will say that is my favorite chapter because picturing like this giant baseball man crawling on the floor of a bathroom, like carrying a plant, and like not, you know, when you've been so sick and you're like, am I gonna make it through this night? And you just don't have that like memory of like, how is why am I holding this plant or whatever? That's a good one. That was written. I actually have that on my chart, and it was like food poisoning.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

Um that's fun. So, overall, what kind of draws you um to writing closed door romance? Because it's kind of hard to find closed door romance books sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 19:50

Yeah, for sure. I I definitely think like this is such a hot topic right now. Um, so hopefully I don't like blow up your podcasts, but I am a Christian and I faith plays such a huge part in who I am. And I I truly believe that sex is for inside the marriage. And I that's what I read. And I feel like I rather keep that off page just to preserve my own heart, but the heart of my readers, anyone that's reading it. It's not meant to be like a a statement on what anyone else reads, but for me and for my own marriage, like I don't read open door and I don't write open door, like it just you you won't see it. I I felt like the nuances of this book were interesting because it was the first time that I had implied um a closed door in the story, you know, and I really wanted it to be when they both had admitted, like there's a very clear sign where she's like, Oh, I am ready for this because I do love you and and I do want to be your wife. And for me, that was really important because it is such a big deal um in my own life. So yeah, I also love this is such a like side side note, but I have three kids, 14, 10, and 7. And my 10-year-old boy loves my rom-comps. Like as I'm writing, he's actually the first one who reads them. And every day after school, he'll say, Have you read another, have you written another chapter? Will you read it to me? And it's lovely that I can share that with my kids without the fear of having scenes that they can't read, you know. Now, in I will say in Headover Wheels, I was like, this is an adult book, it's not a book for 10-year-old boys. So, like there were chapters I was like, I'm not gonna read you this chapter. Like he gets a haircut, that's all you need to know. And so I I you know what I mean. Like it's not being written for 10 year old boys, but I love that I can share that with my kids without them slipping into something that's inappropriate or or not for them yet. Does he have a favorite book? Yeah, I think Grits and Glamour is his favorite book. He actually, when I was reading the first couple of cause it went Forget Me Not, Grits and Glamour, and then Head Over Wheels. And when I was reading, The first chapter of Head of Reals to him, there's like all these jokes about gynecologists and like the, you know, the um relationship between a woman and her hairdresser. And he read that first chapter and he was like, it's not as funny as grits and glamour. And I was like, okay, well, grits and glamour starts with bunnies. So forgive me. Like, I don't know what you want from me. But yeah, he likes grits and glamour quite a bit. It's so, it's such a weird thing to share with them, but it's it's so awesome that they want to be a part of it. I'm like, I want to write books that my kids can read, or that I can share. Like one of my uh Claire Kane um is one of my best friends, and her teen just got forget me not or or head of her wheels for Valentine's Day. I was like, I love that like her teen can read this book. And her daughter is my son's best friend. And it there's nothing weird in there that she's reading that she's like, oh my gosh, that, you know, like I think it just makes it more available to more people. And how did you first meet Claire? So random. Claire was my next door neighbor at our last base. So her husband's in the army, my husband's in the Air Force, but we were at a base that houses uh all military uh branches. And um we, when we were moving to DC, we were really praying that we would have neighbors nearby that we could connect with. And um the day they moved in, Claire had on a t-shirt that said strong female heroine or something like that. And I was like, Oh, I love your t-shirt. And um, she said, Oh, yeah, I'm an author. And I was like, Oh, I'm an author too. And it turned out that we're both romance authors and um our kids are the same ages and just best buddies. And that was a bittersweet thing to move to Germany, but to leave Claire and her family behind. But yeah, so pretty, pretty crazy, perfect providential moment for us to live across the street. And we did all of our events together, and um, it was a sweet time being their neighbors for sure. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

And you never know, you could find yourself, you know, neighbors again. You do never know. That's true. It would be amazing. And then um, I was gonna say, what is the best reader reaction um you've gotten so far? And it could definitely be the green Gretchen stickers.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

Yeah, I think I think it's always fun when I I think with Headover Wheels, I've noticed more than any of my other books so far, is that more readers are feeling comfortable sending me messages on Instagram and they're like, oh my gosh, I'm reading this. It's so funny, or I I really enjoy this. I can't read to read your backlist. And I think the Gretchen thing, like people just love Gretchen. That was, I think my my team in particular were like, what can we do? I there's like on my swag page, like I have a red bubble and I made like Gretchen mugs and stuff. So one of my team members had a mug for release day. Um I don't even have a mug for release day. I was like, oh man, I need a Gretchen something. I want a Gretchen hat. But yeah, I think that any time that they are connected to something in like an unhinged way means that you've done a good job. For forget me not, like a bunch of my readers made pretzels, um, which I think I've told a lot of people, I can't have gluten or dairy or like there's a lot, I'm I have a lot of food restrictions. And it's funny because most of my books have a ton of food in them. Um, and for forget me not release, I um I ended up, I did make pretzels, but I I love that they kind of make it their own. Like they feel like an ownership over it and they're like, oh, I'm gonna do this. And that's always it's not maybe the most exciting answer, but it's just cool when people relate to your book enough where they're like, oh, I'm I'm bringing this into my life somehow, you know. Um, so the girl that I mentioned before, Tiffany, she loves Forget Me Not, which is so cool. And she has bought like sweaters with pretzels on it. And I don't know, I feel like she's made it her whole personality, which is amazing. It's like very humbling and just really cool. Yeah, that someone feels so connected to your characters that they would be like, Oh, I I want to wear this.

SPEAKER_00 25:59

And I kind of pictured Gretchen um like Lizzie McGuire, you know, like Lizzie's little like alternate voice. Like that's that's how I pictured Gretchen.

SPEAKER_01 26:08

Such a millennial reference. Yes, that's such a good yeah, I love that. Like a cartoon character. Yeah. It was I um my Gretchen. I don't know if you saw it, uh, the pre-order I made like a sticker. Um, I forget even what it says. It says something about Gretchen, but um, my Gretchen looks a little bit like a cat. Oh, because at one point Brooks says Gretchen, that hussy, because Gretchen is so excited by Owen. And um, so she looks a little bit like a green cat. But yeah, I love it. She has a little cartoon, a little cartoon brook. That is hilarious. Is there anything else that you would like uh readers to know? If you're a reader and you read one of my books, I really do love to connect with people. Like I love to talk to readers. I think it's the best part of writing is just like making friends kind of everywhere. So if you read a book and you're like, man, I want to talk to that girl, do it. Or anytime you read any books by an author that you love, like there's no better compliment um than you can give than to send a private message and be like, I love this book. It just keeps you going, you know, it just kind of gets you excited to keep going. Um, because no matter how many times you do this, I'm like, I just told someone yesterday, like, I'm on chapter three of my work in progress, and I always reach a point where I'm like, you're terrible and you'll never write another funny book ever. And then you get a compliment where someone's like, Oh, this book made me laugh, or this book got me through a hard time, and you're like, Okay, I think I can keep going. So I guess for readers, like, please reach out. Like, I love to meet people, I love to talk to people and make friends, and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

And that's so that's so fun. So definitely um encourage everyone to reach out to authors because it is nice to hear. Yes, yes, it's huge. Well, that's it for today. Thanks for listening to Where I Left Off, a bookish podcast. You can visit BR's site and follow her on social media, and you can purchase her novels through the link in the show notes. And of course, you can always read them on Kindle Unlimited.