Golden Boy with Author A.J. Symon

Thanks to Simon & Schuster and Author A.J. Symon for talking about his debut novel, Golden Boy.

Support A.J.:

• Read Golden Boy
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Books Mentioned in This Episode:

• The Talisman by Stephen King
• The Top of the World by Ethan Joella
• Misery by Stephen King

For links to the books discussed in this episode, click the link here to take you to the Google Doc to view the list. 

For episode feedback, future reading and author recommendations, you can text the podcast by clicking the "Send us a message button" above. 

For more, follow along on Instagram @whereileftoffpod.

Transcript

Welcome + Current Reads + WIP

SPEAKER_02 0:08

Welcome back. I'm Kristen Balls, and you're listening to Where I Left Off, a Bookish Podcast. And today I'm joined by author A.J. Simon, and we are talking about his debut young adult novel, Golden Boy. Thank you so much for joining me today.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Oh, thank you so much, Kristen. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 0:24

Yeah. So the first question that I always ask every author is what are you currently reading or watching right now?

SPEAKER_00 0:30

Guess you know, since I'm part of the Simon Schuster family, I have been reading a lot of Simon and Schuster stuff. And Stephen King's one of my favorite authors of all time. So I'm catching up on the Talisman series. So I'm actually on the very first book now, but to me, like a series is like a real big time commitment because I can't read more than one book at a time. And there's some people who can juggle like three or four, but I have to read one book all the way to the end. And if it's a series, I have to read the entire series before I can move on to uh anything else. So that's gonna be consuming a lot of my time. And then there's one other book that I have sort of on my to be red stack that I can't wait, but I've heard a lot of good things about. It's called A Top of the World by Ethan Joella. It's supposed to be a real tearjerker, and I I love those kind of stories, so I'm excited about reading that next.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

Okay. So it sounds like you read a lot of different genres. Do you have one that's your favorite?

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Honestly, no. I mean, I just I'll read anything. I don't read a lot of nonfiction. I watch a lot of documentaries, but I don't read a lot of nonfiction.

SPEAKER_02 1:28

So are you listening to them on audiobook or are you reading the physical?

SPEAKER_00 1:31

I read everything physically. I have a hard time just paying attention in the car as it is. Imagine being like emotionally taken away and being like, ugh, run into a train.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Well, I applaud you for reading one book at once. I'm one of those people that's reading like five books.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

Well, uh, congratulations on that. I wish I had that skill.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

Uh, it's not a fun skill. But you get used to it. Um, so what can you tell us about your current work in progress right now?

SPEAKER_00 1:57

Um, sort of expanding the Golden Boy universe, you know, which is set in the uh South Carolina low country, you know, like the barrier islands and the rivers and marshes and the big live oaks with the Spanish moss and all that. So I just that's like one of my favorite parts of the entire world, which is why I set the first story there. You know, the main character in Golden Boy, her name's Emma. So I've got a lot of I'm kind of telling her family history, and it's just a lot of science-obsessed, kind of geeky kids who just get into trouble with their science projects. So Golden Boy is sort of the middle, kind of like the Star Wars approach, but I'm telling the middle story first, and then we'll kind of build on either end as time goes along. So I'm really excited to be able to share those with our readers when they're when they're ready.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

So, did you know that going in whenever you first started writing Emma, or did that kind of come later?

SPEAKER_00 2:49

I knew I wanted to write a sequel. I wasn't sure until I started thinking about it, I didn't really think about, oh, I can do like a whole history in here, you know, and do different eras and things like that. And you know, because one of my favorite shows, which I was really sad that they ended it, but I loved it with Stranger Things and I loved how they recreated the 80s, like it was so much fun. Like I love nostalgia, so it'd be fun to be able to do stuff concurrently and stuff from the past, and you know, especially like the 70s and 80s has such like crazy, like enormous computers and crazy gadgets and stuff. That's all kind of fun to me.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

And especially when half of that technology, I feel like it's kind of coming back around now that'll be really interesting.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Yeah, I know. Well, the well, the trucks certainly are. I just saw like a reproduction like Bronco for like $200,000 or something with roll-down windows. I was like, what? Who's paying for that?

SPEAKER_02 3:43

Well, even like old CD players are going for a lot right now. So yeah, like there's just so many things that are coming back over.

SPEAKER_00 3:49

I know. I'm like, and I see like those old Macs. I'm like, what what are you doing with that? How do you even use that?

SPEAKER_02 3:55

Even operate that yeah. Someone finds a way to hack it and figure it out.

SPEAKER_00 4:00

And I don't know, like, where do you get a floppy disk from now?

SPEAKER_02 4:02

Yeah. Oh man. Um, so from a publishing perspective, was it easier to pitch your agent on continuing a series that you already had? Like were they really open to it versus doing a bunch of different standalones?

SPEAKER_00 4:17

Well, actually, I do not have an agent.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

I actually was able to go right to Simon Schuster because yeah, I I've been a screenwriter for a long time.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

So I was able to kind of through work connections get to Simon Schuster without having to have an agent. So this is sort of my own ambition, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 4:36

And speaking of screenwriting, can you kind of talk a little bit more about your background for the audience who doesn't know?

SPEAKER_00 4:42

I started out um screenwriting. I've written movies and TV and I did a lot of radio and live theater. So I have been writing stories for a while. It never really occurred to me to write a novel, I guess. I guess because it's a very different animal, you know, because screenwriting is all about what you see and hear, and that's in a novel too. That's also about what people are thinking. Unless you're writing voiceover, which is can uh be a little cheesy, you're not really hearing what the actors on screen are thinking. They just kind of have to let you know by the way they perform.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

Yeah, true. That is completely, completely different mediums for sure. And okay, so how how kind of did you go about brainstorming and researching what problems um a dog would face when being turned into a human, kind of talking a little bit more about Golden

Golden Boy by A.J. Symon

SPEAKER_02 5:32

Boy specifically?

SPEAKER_00 5:33

Well, you know, every dog has a personality. So I just sort of thought, you know, what would my dog be like if he were human? And which isn't really too hard if you're an animal lover. You most of us kind of think of our pets as human beings anyway. So I think really the main problem uh in the story is really more like the people around the dog, you know, because they're trying to keep it a secret. But just to kind of quick summary of the plot, uh golden retriever becomes a human, gets recruited to play football for the high school, this failing high school football team. So, really, he's a boy on the outside, but he's still golden on the inside. So he's still just kind of acting like a dog. He's still dubbing his face into the food and sticking his head out the window like they do on the, you know, like on the cover, which I thought they did an amazing job with that. So it's really more about them trying not to get found out because if someone finds out, you know, have this player with superhuman abilities on the team, they could shut the whole team down or even the whole school.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

True. And of course, all of the other kids are interacting with him as if he were a boy. So then it was kind of trying to have to show Hudson, like, okay, this is how you need to do it, you know, or Bud, sorry, to used his dog name, not his person.

SPEAKER_00 6:42

Right, right. I mean, I keep thinking of him as Hudson too. But well, Hudson actually is a secret name. Bud's his name as a as a human being.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

Yep. Bud Golden, what was the biggest change that you kind of made during revisions as you went through that process?

SPEAKER_00 6:54

Um, well, I think because the the original manuscript was more from multiple points of view. Oh. And my editor, Simon Schuster, she said, you know, this is a children's book. This needs to be from Emma, who's the main character, needs to be from her point of view because young people are going to read it and she'd be mostly a young person. So the first rewrite, which is a very big change, was almost every scene I had to do from her point of view, except, you know, like she couldn't be in the locker room, obviously. So if it wasn't her, then it was her brothers who were also young, and then the dog, and then a few choice moments where we get inside the father's head. But for the most part, yeah, that was the big thing. And I think like it was a really good call because you know, you want the best books are ones that kind of stay with you when you're done reading them. And I kind of feel like because she made that choice, she really she gave this book legs that it might not have had otherwise. So I really have to commend my editor for making like the perfect choice with that. That was a great note.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

True. And it really does give everyone a character that they can really like identify with for sure. Um, when when that change came about, was that then in developmental edits like the first round?

SPEAKER_00 8:04

Yes, that was the very first note was this is all gotta be from Emma's point of view.

SPEAKER_02 8:08

Man, so that's a lot of changes. Um, so of course, it is different because it's a full-length novel versus like a screenplay, but of course, you know, screenplays can be kind of chunky too. Was the process of revising a novel way more intense in a lot of ways, or did it go through like a lot more revisions, or was it kind of something that you were used to just on a different scale?

SPEAKER_00 8:28

Well, a couple things. The the pace of the publishing industry was slower than if you're working on a film or TV, you know, because a lot of times, you know, if you're working on especially on TV, like they're sitting there waiting for you to finish so they can shoot the scene. So you're writing fast. Sure. With a book, you know, you're you're taking however much time you need. And then they're also like, you know, if you need more time, take more time, which you never hear on a film. So yeah, don't worry about it. Totally different, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

Just keep writing.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

So they, you know, you never hear that. There was, you know, big chunks of time in between when I'd turn in the manuscript and before I would hear what the next round of notes was. So that was a big thing. And actually, in order to kind of stay in the world of Golden Boy, I would work on the script. So I was writing the script. In fact, one of the scenes that my editor cut is still in the script. So whoever ends up getting it gets a bonus scene. But it was really cute. It was this um scene at the homecoming dance where one of the big donors' wives, she has she has a little blood sugar, and Hudson can sense it. And so she's he's basically like, Hey lady, go lie down, you stink. That causes a big rock. So, but I just thought it tickled me, but you know, I guess that my editor thought, you know, well, it doesn't really move the story along. It's just sort of like a little comedy bit. So maybe whoever buys the script will like it.

SPEAKER_02 9:47

But like you said, it could it could go better to that medium and uh show better on screen than in a book for sure. So how how do friendships shape the story? Because of course, you know, Hudson becomes Bug Golden, comes into Emma's life, but in addition to that change, she kind of starts to come out of her shell and make some new friends along the way.

SPEAKER_00 10:08

Right. Well, you know, dogs kind of bring the best of us out of ourselves. You know, I mean, in a way, it's almost like when you see the world through a dog's eyes, they almost kind of show us how to be like fully human in a way, because of the way they embrace life and joy and stuff, and they don't worry about the junk that we tend to worry about. You know, that's that's the way Hudson is or a bud. So I think obviously that their friendship is central because he's, you know, basically if if she doesn't do anything, he when he's a dog, you know, he's about to die. So her last ditch effort, just as a desperate act of love, is to try and save him with this science project she's been working on, and then accidentally turns him into a boy. So she feels responsible for him, of course, because she is kind of responsible for turning him into a boy. But, you know, she loves him, she feels responsible for him, and she doesn't really want him to be exploited, even though he loves playing football anyway. So she's sort of caught up in that. But he does definitely, now that he can talk, he definitely points out when she makes missteps. So he becomes a bit of a mentor in that way. And she also kind of learns through example by the way he behaves to sort of come out of her shell. She talks to the quarterback and stuff. You know, she she's able to sort of do that without blushing or running away or fainting. So that whole friendship is really the center of the story, I think.

SPEAKER_02 11:30

Yeah, it was really fun to see their dynamic from dog and owner to in-person as friends. And how do you create uh characters that really feel authentic to young readers? Because really every character in your story has a lot of background and a lot of things going on uh in addition to the main plot.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

Well, well, the first thing is that young readers, I think specifically have like a real, can I say BS detector?

SPEAKER_02 11:56

Yeah.

unknown 11:58

That's fine.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

Like I think what it's a tougher, they're a tough crowd, you know.

SPEAKER_02 12:02

Like they will pick They will not sugarcoat it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

They will pick things out. It's like like if I can make a Stephen King reference. Do you remember Annie Wilkes in Misery? Yeah. Which he talks about, like she goes to the, she she's going to those um serial movies every weekend with the cliffhangers. And the first weekend, this guy's in a the the hero is in a car that goes over a cliff, and she's like, Oh my god, how's it how's he gonna save himself? How's he gonna save himself? She goes back the next week and they show the same scene, but he jumps out of the car at the last second. She like stands up in the theater and screams, He didn't get out of the cocky duty car. You know, so that sort of I'm aware of that, and I appreciate like I feel that, you know, like I I get that sense of like feeling cheated when a story doesn't, it kind of like cuts corners. So I have like this kind of cocky duty meter of my own when I'm writing when I'm writing. I try to be real, just like what I try to do really basically is go into myself and think, okay, what is the truth? Like, if I were this character, and a lot of times I have been that character that I'm writing about. So, like, how did I feel in that situation? You know, and I think as long as you're telling the truth, especially as it relates to your story, then your young readers are gonna go along with it. But the second you start making stuff up that doesn't feel right, they will they will pick it out and they won't, they're not quiet about it.

unknown 13:22

No.

SPEAKER_02 13:23

That's funny that you say that because uh James Ponty, who wrote the Sherlock Society series, said the same thing because he was on, I think, like book seven, and he ultimately named like one character the same name as someone else in an earlier book, and like he came up to him and was like, they have the same name. Are they the same person? And he's like, Oh no, I I forgot we're such a minor character.

SPEAKER_00 13:45

Yeah, yeah, your fans they know your characters better than you do a lot of times because you're like that was five books ago. Yeah, you gotta keep a big, you know, on TV we keep Bibles, you know, so you can go back and all yeah, well, the history of everybody so that you know there's people whose job it is to make sure you're not messing up.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

That's smart. Um, do you keep your your Bible for your books in like a spreadsheet?

SPEAKER_00 14:07

Um, I just use honestly, I just use the notes app.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

It's so much faster. And you know, especially when I'm thinking of something when I'm walking around, I'm not on my computer. It's much easier just to pull up the phone and tap it in. True.

SPEAKER_02 14:18

That does work. So in your opinion, uh, which character do you think would make the worst roommate?

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Oh, I think Buckhead, Emma's younger brother for sure, because he's just a pill. You know, he's just such a I don't know. I mean, I I I I get him, but he's just oh, I couldn't imagine spend sharing in a room with that guy. You know, and you know he didn't clean up after himself.

SPEAKER_02 14:42

True. Emma probably has to do some of that, I'm sure. I mean, I guess I'm glad I it is good that they didn't share rooms and that they all I think had their own room, right?

SPEAKER_00 14:53

Well, actually the two boys shared a room just to be.

SPEAKER_02 14:56

Did they I didn't remember that.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

Okay. I think I mean, unless I changed it, I'm pretty sure they do. So I'm sure if I I'm sure probably in there.

SPEAKER_02 15:03

I'll have to flip back through my copy and see.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

They'll be like, yeah. You might might want to make a note of that. I remember thinking, because I do remember, although I think I changed it. I do remember one of the early drafts they were sharing a room because they were talking about something and they were but I may have I may have changed that since then.

SPEAKER_02 15:22

And I may have forgotten, so it could be it could be either or um which character do you think would end up having the most chaotic search history?

SPEAKER_00 15:30

Oh, I think Emma. I mean, if you're talking about like just random stuff.

SPEAKER_02 15:33

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Because she has so much she's so interested in so many different things. I mean, there'd be a lot of science in there, but you know, I mean she's true. She's you know, Googling like how do you birth a lamb and you know what are the what's the chemical structure of the Milky Way Nebula and stuff, stuff like that. You know, I'm sure it's just all kinds of random stuff. And of course, and she also, I'm sure, is looking at, you know, like those actual genetic research projects and like like the real scientific ones that are just impossible to read. I'm sure she just reads us through those like a snack.

SPEAKER_02 16:02

She's very inquisitive for sure.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

You know.

SPEAKER_02 16:05

Uh did you have to do a lot of research when it came to like her language, or did you already kind of have a background or a knack for kind of science?

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Um, well, I do, yeah, like I said, I do actually watch a ton of documentaries.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

Yeah. So that helps me.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

So I mean, a lot of a lot of stuff I knew, and then I would have to kind of like go back to make sure I had remembered it correctly. But I and I did, you know, I I did have to do a lot of searching on on really specific, like famous people in genetics research. Because I mean, not that you have to know who they are, but I wanted them to be real. When, you know, like when she and Wanda, who's kind of her her science mentor, are talking, and they kind of know the same studies and the same doctors, and they have this, they know all that stuff. So I had to sort of read it and process it and get a little bit familiar with it in order to make it sound realistic and not get called out by a fan who actually knows more about genetics than I do.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

And it's hard because you have the perspective of Wanda, who's an adult who's been studying science really her whole career, and then you also have the perspective of Emma, who is a genius, but it doesn't have as much like tactical experience as maybe Wanda would.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 17:17

Is there a song that you feel like really fits the book, or did you have on repeat when you're writing? Can you write to music?

SPEAKER_00 17:24

Oh, I do write to music. I did not write to this song though, because I kind of write, uh oh, there's two questions. I kind of write to like this is gonna sound super cheesy, but you know who Enya is?

SPEAKER_02 17:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 17:35

I mean, it's like that really sleepy, calm stuff. Nice, yeah. But this is to me, that's like white noise.

SPEAKER_02 17:40

Hey, you have what works for you and it works.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

White noise is either that, or sit there and play play solitaire while I'm thinking. So, you know, because I don't know why it just occupies my mind for some reason. I'm able to focus better than that. But the one song I think that epitomizes this book is Be Young, Be Foolish, Be Happy by the Tams, which is a Carolina Beach music song. Yes, probably one of the most popular ones. People don't know beach music, Carolina Beach music is different than like the Beach Boys. It's very specific genre is very kind of RB, Motown-ish, and it's the birthplace of the shag that what goes with beach music. And I think like if a golden retriever were to have a theme song, it would be Be Young, Be Foolish, Be Happy. And so I've actually mentioned the song three times in the book, Beginning, Middle, and End, just to kind of hammer that home. So yeah, for sure, I think, and I love that song. It's been one of my favorite songs since I was in at least high school.

SPEAKER_02 18:35

Um, dumb question, but because you put like a little part of the lyrics in there, did you have to get approval to use that? Or was that okay?

SPEAKER_00 18:45

I believe that was I believe that was approved. I know it went through legal. So I think there's like a certain limit to how many words you can do it. I just made sure to keep it to the limit.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

That's perfect. Well, yeah. And then um, looking back, what part of the publishing process in general taught you the most as a writer? And this will definitely probably be different for you not having an agent and figuring it kind of all out yourself a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

Yeah, I think definitely I would say, well, first of all, just the process in general. You know, like I said, it's so different than writing scripts. I mean, I was and still am a publishing neophyte. Like I had no idea that there was like young adult and middle grade, I had no idea those were categories. I just thought of, you know, books for young readers was that's was my goal when I was writing it. I didn't, you know, and then Simon Schuster was like, that's where your book fits. So that I had to learn just in general. And then, but I will say I will the most shocking part of the process for me. Do you know what a line edit is?

SPEAKER_01 19:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

Okay, so that threw me for I need to explain what that is.

SPEAKER_02 19:49

Yeah, you can go ahead and explain to it for the listeners, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Okay, so basically your editor goes through your manuscript line by line and makes changes um using track changes in Word. So there's all these red lines. Like literally, you get your manuscript back, and there's so much red. It looks like there should just be a big overwhelming red.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:11

So that I was like, oh my gosh, how am I ever gonna finish this? But you know, and you're and so you have to go through it, you know, line by line, and you can accept their changes, you can reject their changes, or you can create something new at every little thing. And it took I mean, that took a couple of weeks just I mean, it took me a couple of days just to read through it and process the notes. And then, you know, it takes a couple of days to kind of figure out, okay, well, how am I gonna do this? Yeah, after a little bit of freaking out, you get to work and do it. But, you know, like I mean, it's different, like I said, it's different than a script because with the script, they're not they don't care what the words are really except for the dialogue. And even then, you know, if the actors are improvise and even the dialogue you write doesn't end up in the in the film. So, you know, it's really your your a script is like a big blueprint for a movie, and everyone kind of uses it as a guide. And the only notes you get on a script are sort of like general story notes, like that first thing we're talking about, like this all has to be things point of view, or something like that. Or, you know, they're not big things. Uh I mean, they're they're not picky little things, they're big overall arching, overarching things. So that was a a big test. I'm glad I did it. It was that was a real trial by fire for me just because of the intensity, but I mean, you get it, because a finished book, like the reader, is gonna see every word that you write. So you want it to be perfect, you know, we're as perfect as it can be. So, you know, so I totally get why they do it, but that I wasn't really expecting that level of detail. So that took a bit to process for sure.

SPEAKER_02 21:44

Yeah. So overall, did you end up having a developmental edit, a line edit, a copy edit, and then like a final proof once it was formatted?

SPEAKER_00 21:52

Yep. All that.

SPEAKER_02 21:55

Did you have um alpha or beta readers before?

SPEAKER_00 21:58

I mean work since I worked in Film. I had have people that I knew that share my sense of story and my taste. So I gave them my book to read. So I have, you know, but I mean those are friends. I guess that's what beta readers are.

SPEAKER_02 22:11

It counts. Yeah. Sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

I mean, no, I've seen some people like, you know, pay beta readers to do it.

SPEAKER_02 22:17

You can you can pay them, or it can be like friends, author friends, industry friends, just your friend off the street, like a little bit of a little bit of everyone just to kind of yeah, give their early opinion before you officially like ship it off to the editor.

unknown 22:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

Yeah. At every every step, well, yeah, I would have at least two or three people read it before I send it back to the editor. But I was always early.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

Oh, that's good.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

And never I never got the I never asked for the extension, even though even though it was offered. I was like, oh no, you're getting this. I'm not gonna be the one that slows this up. That's gonna be on you if it gets slowed, if it gets slowed down.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

Yeah, and then I'm sure getting used to that timeline, like you said, with publishing took a second too, just being a lot longer overall.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

Yeah, because it's just like you're working and then but yeah, no, but I made good use of the time.

SPEAKER_02 23:04

Well, is there anything else that you would like readers to know about Golden Boy?

SPEAKER_00 23:08

I really hope they love it. I mean, I know I don't know if we talked about the fact that I wrote it as sort of uh um to get over the grief of losing my service animal, Chip.

SPEAKER_02 23:17

No. Tell me about that.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

So uh yeah, he um he was with me for about 10 years, and he was, you know, what you people refer to as like your soul dog.

unknown 23:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:27

And he was with me 25 uh of a Caesar disorder. So I I have a service dog with me all the time. And I actually have Bubba right here, my new service dog is right below me. And but Chip was just about 10, and he got this really aggressive form of cancer, which we didn't know because by the time we just were like, Wait, is something going on with Chip? It was already too late. Like, literally, he was diagnosed on a Wednesday and was gone on a Thursday. It was like that quick. It's just this viciously aggressive type of cancer. And so, you know, when you see the relationship between Hudson and Emma, that was sort of it was a lot. I mean, he wasn't a human being, but it was just something like that. We were we were close, you know. And I uh another thing, I was a latchkey kid, so my parents both worked. This is a long time ago. My parents both worked, my sister was in college, and I was so I was alone all the time except for the dog. So I would just sit there on the sofa with the dog and watch TV and you know, read those novels that you can buy at the grocery store for a dollar because it would be nobody around was watching me. Well then Chip died trying to console myself with like reading and watching TV, but you know, I was like, where's my dog? You know, it was like that same, I was like, wait.

SPEAKER_02 24:30

That presence that was there. That's just yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

Yeah. Um, so I was really, it really like put a hole in my heart. And after a couple weeks, I just sat myself down at the computer and started writing. And I had, you know, this idea about I had had this idea for like 30 years about a dog that becomes a human football star. And I just started writing it, and there was no real thought that I put like, you know, conscious intention, but I thought, you know, I think this should be a book. I think this should be a book for young people. And it just came pouring out, and you know, all the sadness came out. A lot of it came out through the voices of the characters in the book. Um, but then also, you know, there's so much joy in the book, you know, and I was just reminded me of the the great times and all the unconditional love that I got from Chip, you know. So it all just came out in the book and it sort of brought me out of that depression. You know, I was in a total funk because, you know, I lost my best friend. Um so I was able to kind of, you know, make a book that lifted me up. And so I'm hoping that it also lifts everyone else up. So, you know, like Chip and Hudson, he's also another dog. They're that that same spirit that, you know, lifted me up, I hope lives on in the book and continues to lift readers up, you know, until time immemorial, as they say.

SPEAKER_02 25:50

And was Chip a golden as well?

SPEAKER_00 25:52

Yes, yes, yes. Actually, Chip looks almost exactly like the dog on the cover of the book. Oh, wow. Turned upside down. I was like, it was so wild when I first saw that thing. I was like, oh my god, how did Chip end up on the cover of the book? Because I was like, how does this all how does this illustrator know what chip looked like? It was well, you know, I don't want to be super woo-woo, but I was like, wow. That is so cool. Chip's on the cover of my book. How did that happen? Oh he's in the author picture. You'll see, you can kind of see.

SPEAKER_02 26:19

Okay, I'm gonna have to flip back and relook again. Uh, but thank you so much for joining me.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

Oh, well, um I'm so honored to be on the show. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

Thank you. And that's it for today. Thanks for listening to Where I Left Off, a bookish podcast. You can visit AJ's site at his book on Goodreads, follow him on social media, and purchase his novels anywhere books are sold. And Golden Boy is available everywhere August 25th.