The Netflix documentary in her hands follows Afghanistan's, youngest female mayor Zafa Gori during the last 18 months before Western Forces leave the country. In the film, the young mayor navigates a lot of danger while pushing for the education of girls. At the same time, she's planning her wedding and dealing with this shift in her relationship with her.

The documentary captures a critical juncture in Afghanistan and shows one woman's fight to have her voice heard. Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and her daughter Chelsea Clinton, serve as executive producers on this project. I'm your host, Sandra Abrams, and in this episode I'll chat with the films co-director, Taana A, like the main subject of the film.

She is from Afghani. In 2020, she worked as a sound technician on the Academy Award-winning short learning to skateboard in a war zone if you're a girl, she also worked on the 2019 film where the Light shines. She escaped the Taliban last year and now lives in London. Welcome to Man to Median Monuments, and congratulations on Winning the Audience Award at the Canem International Film Festival In s.

Thank you so much, Sandra. Um, it's so great to be here with you today.

Well, I wanted to ask you about how you connected with this mayor, but I guess I wanna set the scene a little for our audience.  at one point in the film, she's sitting on the floor. She's with her bodyguard, and she's typing on a laptop and he says to her, we have to leave. It's an emergency. We're being followed.

It's. And without even looking up from her computer, she's continuing to type and you hear the clack of her nails cuz she has the manicured nails and she says, you're just telling me this now. And then I was like, whoa, this is a tough one. And then the next day you see her, the, there's three men moving the couch and she's telling them how to move the couch.

I thought, wow. She. A tough person, don't mess with her. Is that one of the reasons why you wanted to film her? tell me about how you connected with her 

uh, yeah, ZAFA, um, uh, ZAFA was quite famous on social media in Afghanistan because when she was appointed as a mayor, she was not accepted by the men in by Donard province. So she used Facebook, Twitter to. And talk about it, uh, with, with the people. And then she managed to go to the office and it was a win for her.

And so many people started talking about her because she raised her voice against inequality and injustice. Um, which impressed me. And, uh, so many other Afghans were talking about her.  but to be honest, this is my generation. My generation, when you see women, African women, they are the same because they understand.

They know that, you know, For so long, main world decision makers, it's our time. We need to be decision makers and,  we cannot tolerate,  injustice and inequality anymore.

So her attitude was nothing new to you. Because of that, because of the fact that you are the same generation.

Uh, so our aim was to make a film about a strong woman, especially from my generation. And it was the perfect time because the peace negotiations and, uh, deal was happening between the Taliban and the US government. And we were like, if we can put all these different layers together and tell a story of a strong woman and a studio of Afghanistan, why not?

Um, so it definitely had an.

so. We're living in Afghanistan. So you knew from the start that you wanted to film a strong woman, so that's how the pieces came together. When you approached her, was she hesitant? Did she say yes right away? What was that like?

When I contacted her the first time, she was quite busy.  And, um, it took us some time to be honest, because she was traveling that time and she,  a newly. I started working as a mayor. She was traveling a lot, um, and advocating for a Afghanistan, so she was doing so many different things at the same time.

 but she did agree. We,  worked on a short phone first,  with her and then, uh, we got the access. She was happy about it, and we continued working together in.

 a lot of times when you're doing,  a documentary, You have, archival footage 

This was not the case here for you. You were wedded to a timeline, um, as far as that was your news hook. And that was almost journalistic in a way. So how did the planning go in that particular sense? Because it was some, it was a different type of documentary that you were focused.

Uh, like any other documentary, um, it was not easy because when we started filming Rifa, it was January, 2020 and we were traveling to Ma Cobal and then meeting Taliban, filming the Taliban filming Ma There was a lot going on, but we had to have something to . Present it and pitched the film.  we wanted to make a teaser first. Uh, but. It was March, 2020. Uh, me and I, we were in a cobble and wak filming when Covid happened. And that time everybody was busy talking about Covid. Nobody really cared about our film. Uh, no one wanted to fund it, but we self-produced it. Uh, , we covered expenses ourself, uh, because we believed in the project.

We knew that,  if Taliban will come to power, of course there will be,  a change in the country, but also it'll affect our lives. Especially as women and girls in Afghanistan.  and we continued filming,  and we didn't have any script. We didn't know what will be end of the film, but we, we were working on it and we were trying to put all the emotions, the thoughts, the experiences together, because this is also a personal story. because it's not only a film, it's my life. I and my family, friends, like so many other people.  this is how it all started and we were committed to continue working on it.

because it was your country. How did you feel about doing this?

Um, I was traveling to all these villages, all these provinces and cobal things were different because whatever the republic told the people, they were like, okay, this is it. Everything is okay. But whenever I went to the villages, I saw Taliban taking more power, more territory. I had a lot of fear in my heart, but also I couldn't tell anybody, including my family.

Whenever I came back from, um, uh, provinces, from these villages, I didn't tell my family because I was like, if I tell them, they will be worried about me and also they will keep thinking about the future. Uh, so, um, yeah, it's better to keep it with myself and I was hoping that it. Happen because I remember when I was with one of my colleagues for, uh, from Human Rights Watch, and I was also working on some research to be able to understand what's happening in the country because it was important and I was trying different ways to document whatever was happening at that time.

 and she asked me, okay, TA eating will happen to have Afghanistan.  and then I made a joke. I said that they will take all the province and then KA will be the last place. She looked at me, we were in a taxi and she asked me, what will you do that time? I said, I don't know.  

I would imagine you were nervous because I was thinking of that one point where you're, you're interviewing the Taliban commander, and I'm probably not saying his name correctly, Mo Fur, and he's talking about the first scene that you have with him where he's talking about how to blow people up with a car.

It was jolted right there. And then he's complaining there's no help and the government doesn't exist here. And he talks about how he's 36 years old, but people think he's 50 and they cut to later in the film and you're seeing a 180 of this Taliban commander and he's being so nice to these young girls at the school.

I just thought, how did you do that filming? How did you know from the start you wanted to interview a member of the Taliban and how long did it take to get permission to.

Um, in the beginning when we contacted Zif, I was sitting with Marcel talking about, okay, what should we do? We decided in the beginning that we don't want to make a biopic. It needs to have different layers. And then, uh, we talked about other journalists who went to Taliban territory and they filmed them.

So we were like, we should give the try. And Meel wasn't really sure about it, but then I was like, I'll just give the, try, write the leadership and see what happens. So I sent a message, WhatsApp message, and then they didn't respond. It took a few. Weeks and then they got back to me. They needed bio, like sample of our, our work, everything else.

And then they agreed to allow us for two days. When I went there for the first time, a telecom commander came to the city. He picked us up in the car in front of our hotel.  it was not easy because I was like, okay, Taliban in the city. I was not expecting that. course I, I saw them on tv, but never you.

Face to face. Um, yeah, there are guns. Everything else, we were sitting in the car and then, um, we went to all these villages.  and for me it was challenging because I was constantly thinking about my friends, my mentor, and my loved ones. I lost during. The past 20 years and even before,  in Taliban exclusions, during the conflict.

But also I kept reminding myself, ta, you're a filmmaker. You are a documentary filmmaker, a journalist.  you can't be biased. Just sit here, listen to them and see where they come from and why they do what they do, who they are. Because like, to be honest, even that time everybody talked about Taliban, nobody.

Wanted to talk to them and listen to them. it was not easy, but yeah, I, I decided to do, to listen to them, to be there and film them.

Uh, obviously very brave because I saw those scenes and with him holding the gun. I was like, I would not be there. So, good for you. Very brave of you. Can you talk a little bit about, uh, you've mentioned Marcel. Can you talk a little bit about him and his involvement with the.

Uh, Marcel, we started working, uh, together on a few other film projects, documentaries in 2017, uh, as producers, but then we always had a conversation about a Afghanistan. We always talked about my generation, why it was important because everybody said that, okay, all this money went to Afghanistan, everything was wasted, but this is not, Like my generation, we were able to go to school, university, get an education, travel without a male family member, um, and also work as journalists, filmmakers, doctors on so many different, you know, occupations.

Uh, but then. We realized that in 2020 when Taliban and the US government was closed to sign the deal, we were like, wait, if they come to power, we will lose everything we have. So this is important. We need to start working on this project as soon as possible. And that's how, uh, we started working on it.

And to be honest, we needed each other  because it was personal for me. Uh, and also it was my country.  I needed Marcel because he was not from a foreigner and he could go to places I was not able to go, and then I could go to places he was not able to go. So we, we made a good team.

Um, and, uh, even before when we worked together, um, we realized that we get along. We don't really have to communicate most of the time, we understand each other. And this is the beauty of it because,  it makes it. when you make a film like in her.

That's such a critical point  working with people that you can communicate even silently, uh, for filmmakers because there's so much going on. That. I think that's wonderful that you have found that the person to do that, so many people wanna get their films made, yet it's finding the right people to help you.

Now, was there any visas involved in bringing Marcel in  for him to travel within the country,

Um, Marcel lived in a Afghanistan 10 years ago for some time, and he traveled to a Afghanistan quite a few times because he was making film and he was working with me on other phone projects. Uh, so, um, yeah, he needed Visa to visit a Afghanistan, but that time during Republic, um, you could easily apply for Visa   

I wanted to ask you another component. You said you wanted to not just have it be a biopic, and so you also had the Taliban commander, but you also had her bodyguard in there. And I have to say, watching the film, my heart was breaking for him. Uh, tell me at what point did you know that this was another component to this film that would be a compelling, um,

the first week, it was our second or third day when we were in . And then Cefa went on the street. We didn't know what was going on. She started protesting, you know, and all these men, she was the only woman who was, uh, leading,  all these people. And then she was talking about peace education and then ma.

He was there to make sure that no one harms her and she is safe and she's doing the job.  after that,  we did an interview with Masu, uh, and when we did like, I don't know, I can't remember, maybe 10 minutes interview, like, okay, he's amazing because Masu was also poet. Uh, he speaks freely.

He doesn't really care about which side, who, uh, he speaks his mind. And also he's a strong character and the person who could represent the people of Afghanistan, no matter in the cities or villages with opportunities, without opportunities. Um, that's when we decided to continue filming with.

He added just as such an important component to that, and I thought that you did an excellent job in drawing out all these different, um, people around the mayor. So I felt it was very compelling.  , you had lots of raw footage there,  when people do documentaries, they have archival footage, but it seemed like most of your footage was raw footage.

Is that the case? And, um, you know, was there any archival footage that you had to pull from and how did you get that?

Uh, we had a lot of footage. I was, I was based in cobble that time and whatever happened in the country, I was ready to go out and film it. This is how it happened when you see the hospital scene, when you see there is a protest in the village against, uh, the government in favor of the Taliban. Um, and, and everything else.

When we knew that, okay, there is something interesting in Taliban territory happening, uh, in Doha as well. During the talks were like, we need to be there on film. Um, but also we used a lot of archive footage. especially around the, C airport because I was there, I was filming, uh, I film three days after Taliban cover, but then I was not allowed to do it.

Women started protesting on the street the third day of Taliban.  and then, um, Taliban were very aggressive and one of the days they came to me and.  Say that. What are you doing with a camera on the street? Go home. Go home. And this is all I remember. And then I realized that this is the time, time. I know you need to stop and go back.

Um, yeah, go back to, yeah. Your house. Sorry. Uh, sometimes it's not easy to talk about these things.

No, I would imagine not, because you're pouring your heart and soul into this film, and as you said, you didn't have the money in the beginning, but you were financing it yourself, so I can imagine that must have been enormously frustrating for you. And how did you cope knowing that you had to go on and keep filming and to get this done?

 the only thing I wanted to do was to document what was happening to the country. Um, I was hoping that, okay, I should be hopeful. Maybe the international community won't let us down. Maybe our government, our president, who won't let us down. But everything happened. And then even before that, it was not easy.

Every day there were exclusions, like sticky bomb attacks. So many things happened during, uh, the two and a half year we were filming. Uh, but again, , I kept telling myself that I'm, you have the power filmmaking. Not all people, not all the people have this, you know, privileged this opportunity, but you do, you need to do something about it.

Um, and it kept me motivated,  to give voice to my people, to give voice to my country because it's a beautiful country, amazing people, but unfortunately,  it's seen as a war conflict and that's it. But again, we are humans.  like any other humans on the earth.  so yeah, I really wanted to tell this story to the world because if I keep it with myself, it's just my story.

But if I tell it to the world, everybody will know about it and it's important.

You have, um, the editing scene where the mayor wins the award. She comes to United States and I thought the way the editing was done, it was very fast paced and I got the impression her trip must have been a whirlwind. I'm not sure if that was intentional on the editing, but how did that evolve in working with the editor, uh, as someone, you know, this is your first,  time, your first feature where you're  a co-director.

What was that relationship like in the editing? Was there long discussions or did you say, I already know what I want?

Uh, the good thing is that uh, we worked with Stephen, uh, our editor from previous projects. Marcel is Stephen worked before I worked with is Stephen and Marshall before this, uh, uh, feature film. So we knew each other and he's amazing. He's not just. An editor, he's a storyteller. He knows, he understands and you don't have to explain a lot of things, but of course, because he's in Australia, I am based in London and then Marcella is based in Spain, so everything was on the phone.

Zoom calls. I remember waking up because of time difference. . Before watching my face, I was on a Zoom call editing with the Stephen. And then at night, same thing happened before going to bed, I was on Zoom call with the Stephen talking about the film. It took us at some time to, um, bring the film balance.

It, uh, we were trying to polish it, but then Erfa was a strong, and also Masu was a strong, so we had to put things the right way.    I see the film ends about February and then you premiere the film in September at the Toronto International Film Festival. So to me it seemed like that went pretty quickly.

 that's true because there night we were editing like every day because of time difference. Uh, whenever Steven worked on a cat, he sent it to me and Marcel, we had to watch it the next day, sent feedback and the next day we had another cat. And it went on for quite a few weeks. And this is, uh, I think this is thanks to technology.

uh, it made everythings work with our film because we were not in one country. Um, and I'm sure in the past it must have been different, but then now we are grateful to have access to all these, technology.

how did you meet Hillary Clinton? Secretary Clinton. And how did you meet Chelsea Clinton? How did their involvement come about with the film production?

Um, when we started filming, as I mentioned before, uh, no one was really interested and covid happened, and, um, at that time we had around. Hour of footage on 3D from Erfa, Taliban, ma Afghanistan, everything else.  so we approached Para, the production company we worked with, uh, but they contacted Halal Clinton's production company because they already worked on another firm together.

Uh, and they were interested. And they believe in women's rights, and that's what they do most of the time. Uh, they were interested and we were happy to have the support in that challenging time because I really wanted to tell the story, but of course, I needed support. Uh, and I met her until personally, um, in Toronto in September when we premiered the film.

That's wonderful that you had an opportunity to meet with them in person after everything has gone on, especially with the Covid situation. , was there anything about the film that you were particularly like, this scene was the most difficult scene to shoot? Anything in particular that you wanna tell us about?

The difficulties in. Any one scene that you wanna point.

Quite a few when I was with Taliban. One of them started, um, shooting and it head very close to my, um, feet. But we didn't use that one, so we had to kill a lot of babies, unfortunately, uh, while editing. Um, and also, uh, uh, when you see the people in the village on the street protesting against the government, I was like, wow, I see this.

Because during the past 20 years, a lot of civilians got. And then that was an example in front of me and it was really important for me to include it in the film. And also it was difficult, um, to go to the airport and film , leaving up Honan, uh, because I thought that's end of, you know, everything. Uh, when government collapsed in Afghanistan, it was not only a city, it was not only a country, a system, a government.

It was a nation full of hope and. Who had all these freedom and opportunities, and in one day everything changed. I remember taking permission in the morning from Republic of Afghanistan in the afternoon from Taliban leadership to be able to film on these sheets. Uh, it, it was heavy. It was, it was traumatizing, uh, but also important to.

Yes, it's important for everybody to know what is the main message that you wanna get across in this film, or what is it that you hope the audience takes away, um, from this film?

Um, I have so many hopes. I want my audience to understand Afghanistan as a country and we as people of that country, and understand and know that what happened in Afghanistan as a collective failure, we all failed in Afghanistan. We as. The generation as the people of that country, we had the opportunities. We were not able to appreciate it and be grateful about it.

And also the United States field in Afghanistan, the international community field in Afghanistan, and we always talk about, uh, our fellow of feminists, um, activists. Where are they the policy makers, where are they? I call on everybody who cares about women's rights and human. In the world to take action.

Do something like, can they make a phone call to change a policy? Can they invite women from Afghanistan and Iran and do something with them, like collaborate with them? Can they offer mentorship or a scholarship to the ones who are left behind? Uh, there are so many things we can do. Like when I see the situation now, because of all these sanctions, people are disturb.

Including my relatives, my closed ones, they, they, they lost the jobs they had. Women are not able to work anymore. Women are not able to, uh, uh, walk freely. They cannot go to the park, they cannot go to the gym. Uh, and also, uh, it's frustrating because we always talk about, okay, gender equality, inequality, justice, injustice, where is it? There is a huge gap between words and action. , and I think we should, we should stop, uh, empty promises, empty words, and we should really do something about it, big or small, no matter. Even if it's like writing a post, a message to show solidarity. it's very huge for us, Hans and Iranians.

 Now my biggest. The dream is to go back to Afghanistan. Like, uh, people might expect me to say that, okay, I want this award. That award. Big films, big projects, um, travel the world, do all these things. No, I want to go back to my country because nowhere will become my country.

Unfortunately, that's home and I belong there, and I, I need to build it. I need to make the change. Because if we don't do it now, like do we need to wait another 50 years, another hundred year, another century?  For who? For men to build it. I'm not sure because they're the ones who bring peace and war use and abuse our, our rights, all the.

 The award-winning documentary in her Hands is now available on Netflix. Thank you to man for chatting with media and monuments.

Okay. Thank you so much. It was lovely to be with you.