Star Trek Advisor Brings Fact to Fiction

Expert advisors help ground stories in plausibility, and can be vital sounding boards for crafting projects that pass muster with fans. In this episode, host Candice Bloch talks with Dr. Erin Macdonald, the science consultant for the Star Trek franchise. Erin Macdonald (PhD Astrophysics) is a public speaker, educator, STEAM advocate, writer, and technical consultant who explains complex physics and astronomy ideas to varied audiences. She is also the founder and owner of Spacetime Productions, a film company dedicated to lifting and sharing traditionally marginalized voices. In their conversation, you’ll hear about Erin’s journey as a woman of science and a sci-fi fan, the importance of seeing smart, strong female characters on screen, and some of the science of Star Trek, past and present. You’ll also learn what it means to consult on several Star Trek shows, advising from concept development through post-production, checking the science, and helping bring the facts to these fictions.

To learn more about Erin and all of her amazing projects, visit: https://www.erinpmacdonald.com/

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Transcript

  Welcome. I'm your host Candace Block, and today I've got the extreme pleasure of being here with Dr. Erin McDonald, an astrophysicist science communicator, writer, producer, and science fiction consultant.

Erin is also the founder and c e O of Spacetime Productions, which is devoted to developing and producing film projects that lift traditionally marginalized voices and provide representation in front of him behind the camera. She's currently the science consultant for the entire Star Trek franchise and consulting is what we're gonna dive into in this episode.

So without further ado, welcome to the show, Erin.

Hi. I am really happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

So, what inspired you to get into science in the first place, and how did you pick the path and,  the areas that you focus on within science?

Yeah,  so what initially I would say inspired me is that,  well first off, I do think all kids love science. Like we're just naturally scientists. When we're little kids, we're figuring things out. We're learning as we go, and space and dinosaurs. Always is like something people are interested in and ocean and like all those little things that kids are just super into.

 so those little bugs were already there, but then realizing and deciding that that's what I wanted to do for my career stemmed out of watching television. So I watched the X-Files. I was obsessed with the X-Files. I was a little bit on the younger side. It definitely gave me nightmares a few times.  but I really genuinely loved Dana Scully.

Like I just thought she was the coolest woman ever. I'd never seen a character like her before and realizing like she was a scientist and actually her original. Undergraduate was in astrophysics and learning all of those kind of put that bug in my brain. And then the other one that came out was contact the film contact,  with,  Jodi Foster, playing Dr.

Ellie Airway. And just seeing, I think those two women and having them in my periphery and being so in awe of them made me think  oh, that's what I wanna do. That's what I wanna be. And especially, In contact, you know, using telescopes, searching the stars, finding aliens,

Mm-hmm.

visiting another dimensional plane.

It all looked

that's awesome  that's the, the, you know, the Scully Effect even has a name. that's, it. Inaction and kind of the power of,  media and seeing representation and Seeing that you can be those things, cuz Yeah,  I agree. We all kind of have a natural curiosity about our world, but that next step of seeing that you can turn it into a career is so important.

 so you have that, you know, you're an astrophysicist, you're a science communicator on one hand,  but you're also a producer and writer  in addition,  to advising and all of that. So I'm curious, did you always have an interest in media as well?

Yeah, I mean, I did want to work in film and TV as well.  and then just deciding what I wanted to do. I ended up going down the more STEM route, but I've always been interested in that. And then I always really struggled, like I wanted to write. I wrote a lot of fan fiction, but I could never like get myself to write a novel.

It was just not a medium that  I was really comfortable working in. And then when I did discover, I. And I started working in television and seeing scripts and screenplays. I was like, oh no. Like this is a medium I'm actually really comfortable in. So kind of trying to write my own scripts and learning how the process works.

I just fell in love with it and that was a big realization for me  kind of coming back to realizing that I'm not meant to be Dana Scully, I'm meant to write Dana Scully and create those characters.

You're meant to be Dr. Aaron. You're meant

Right,

but Yeah.

exactly.

 So I mean, I know, I'm curious and so are our listeners.  how do you get into science advising for projects? Do you remember the first project you were asked to do some reviewing on or anything like that?

Can you talk to us about the, your origin story as a technical

Yeah,  it's a quirky job cuz it's not one that typically there's an advertisement for, you know, there's not a job board for this type of work. I left academia and I really missed teaching and so I would go to sci-fi conventions to teach science behind stuff. I loved Star Wars, mass Effect, star Trek, all of those things.

And then I would meet creators on that circuit.  there would be panels about. Science and science fiction and literary works. And so I would meet authors and writers and eventually,  over years, they would reach out with projects or they would recommend me to a friend of theirs. And so it started off kind of smaller projects, conceptual stuff.

And then I moved out to Los Angeles because I'd always wanted to live here. Again, that bug in my brain of wanting to work in the entertainment industry and all of these people I'd met at these conventions then sort of got me on the hook. To work on projects that their,  buddy was working on. And the first show that I did was called Orbital Redux and it was like a live streamed scripted show for Nerdist at the time.

I think it's now hosted on dusk, I wanna say,  But yeah, it's uh, that was kinda my first gig as a science advisor and I loved it. And like many things in this industry, you know, word spreads, recommendations, it's really just being positive, being easy to work with. A lot of TV writers have reached out to scientists in the past through a cousin who works at J P L or various things,  and it's not always a positive experience cuz a lot of those scientists are like, It wouldn't work that way.

That's not a real thing. And so,  trying to be positive and  bring that good energy kind of got me pretty far.

That's awesome. Yeah,  I do find  if you listen to any of our other episodes, the common thread you find  especially in this world, is not only is it all who you know,  and just contacts and connections and you just gotta work with that, but you prove yourself on a project by being somebody that you enjoy working with.

And little teams build from there and contacts build from there. So that's awesome to see that that advice continues through even into this

It does indeed.

how often do you find that things need to be tweaked or changed, or you need to make suggestions versus you just giving a stamp of approval to different writers or,

 it depends. I think a lot of the writers I work with are incredibly talented and already have an interest in science, and so they come with some pretty great ideas to begin with, and sometimes I'll say it's,  usually a little bit. On either side of the extreme that it'll be like, Nope, this is great.

Go with it. Fine. Doesn't need any explanation, or What you've got is fine. Or it's like, okay, we really need to rethink this or approach this from a different angle. And I do think that that's,  worked in my favor the longer I've been on shows, because then they bring me earlier in the process and we're able to kind of help develop these concepts as we go.

 but yeah,  now that I'm thinking about it, it's probably more like a third, a third, a third. Like one is like, we really need to change things. The other is like little tweaks here and there, and then another one is like, Nope, that's fine.  we

that's good. That prove, that proves your value. You know, that proves that  you are needed. If it was, if it was only a tiny percentage of the time that you needed to be,  changing or adjusting things, then you wouldn't be as necessary. So, That's great, but good job to the writers who do all their research and,  try to start from a really good place.

 but that said,  as you mentioned, there are people that don't do that. So since you're rooted in the sigh of the sci-fi, do you struggle sometimes to suspend disbelief for the fi side of things?

Yeah. I mean, I am a fan, so it's already, I'm coming in wanting to be entertained not to criticize it. And  I do think the biggest problem is when I. Shows or films try to explain something and they're way off base.  I'm much easier for me to suspend disbelief if it's weird and wild and wacky and it's like, cool, this is a thing that's happening and we're not gonna try to explain it.

That's great. If they try to inject real science into it and it makes no logical sense, then I, that pulls me out pretty quickly.

Yeah, I think most people that are experts in any field have to make those adjustments when watching stuff. There's things that even I watch, I'm like, you know what? Just let it go. Let it go. They're doing that for entertainment, it's

exactly.

 but  when it's done right.  has there been any science that's foreshadowed in shows or movies that's come true that really stands out to you from over the

Ooh, that's a great question. I mean, to some extent science fiction and science is a little bit of a feedback loop that I do think some of our technologies that we have now, even,  us having a conversation over a video chat  You know, they were doing that in Star Trek in the 1960s, and, and that definitely didn't exist back then.

But one of my favorite stories along those lines actually goes way back to the original series in 1967, I believe Captain Kirk says something like, they've encountered a void in space with a massive gravitational presence. And that same year was the first time the phrase black hole. Was coined, like academically coined.

And so  again, it's a little chicken of the egg because it was the same year

Yeah.

the idea of that was floating around scientists, sprains. But just  thinking about  how long ago that was and yeah, that,  we hadn't even coined the term black hole and they were encountering it on Star Trek.

That's so cool. Yeah. so  it's cool to see things on shows as,  we all know.  as a science sort of communicator,  you've even used science fiction and things to help educate about science. How do you think the narrative world has helped inspire future scientists and spark curiosity for stem fields?

 well seeing is believing, right? That's the whole idea behind both technology and also the idea of representation that we were just talking about.  but I think what a lot of people struggle with in science is having a good reference point. Like you can try to do stuff to talk about, you know, gravity and,  . All of these things, but sometimes our intuition doesn't quite fit what the science is telling us.

We can't quite picture a lot of it. But if we're able to give it an allegory through narrative storytelling, then that can help connect people with science a little better. I actually started using science fiction to teach back when I was,  working as a adjunct professor and I was teaching astronomy 1 0 1.

And that experience is always interesting because it's like at least half the students just need to science credit and they're really mad that they have to do math and, and so they're just zoning out to get through it. And I was talking about exoplanets and the Kepler telescope had just discovered one that was orbiting two stars.

And I said something off the cuff like, oh yeah, it's like,  Luke Skywalker's planet. Tattooing has two sons. So it'd be like that. And then like the whole class perked up and they were like, well, wait,  would it look the same? Would the night sky look like that? Would it be a desert planet?

Could people live on it? And like, those are all the questions that you want, uh, science 1 0 1 class to be asking, right?  they're thinking critically. They're asking good questions, even if it's about Star Wars, but it's how it would apply. And then we can use that as a launching point to say, what would this night sky look like?

What do these stars look like? And so that's when I realized, That connective thread, when people are able to go back and point to something, they know, even if it's fictional, can help teach science a little more effectively.

Yeah, that's fantastic. And also most people are visual learners, so it helps  to have that as well.  but speaking of teaching and all that,  do you still create new content for your YouTube channel? Dr. Aaron Explains the Universe,

I.

is that something you did and it's kind of, uh, on pause?

It's mostly on pause. I have a lot of people who want me to bring it back because I've cut down a little bit on my going to conventions and giving those live talks. But I did pivot slightly because on that YouTube channel, you can go into my public playlist and it connects to the Star Trek YouTube because I was able to make some content for the franchise Along the exact same theme, we did a whole series,  That I believe just won the audience award at the Shorty's,  on the science behind Star Trek Prodigy.

So it was more aimed at kids, but it was like a five episode series that took little themes like metamorphosis,  you know, warp drive and explained the science behind them in that same way that I used to. So it's been pretty cool to see  you know, see it evolve into being franchise related and reach a

that's cool. It still  has all that value and all of those videos that were created are still there for people  to, uh, dig into.  but yeah. Speaking of that Star Trek franchise, you've been the,  advisor for that since 2019, is that correct?  how many projects is that currently?

Because it's the whole franchise, so how much does that

Yeah, so there have been five shows now in that time span. I started on season three of Star Trek Discovery, so I did season three and four and  will be five of discovery. I came in for seasons two and on of Lowered X two and on of Picard and then from the beginning on Strange New Worlds and Prodigy.

 and actually the recent season of the card I think is when I hit my hundred episode. Credit. Thank you. So it's a lot. It's a lot. A lot of content. Yeah. I mean, for someone who wants to work in the industry and work in writers' rooms and stuff,  it has just been a fire hose of experience to work on five shows simultaneously with different showrunners and different writers.

So I'm really grateful for that experience.

That's awesome.  so are you exclusively working with Star Trek now, or do you sometimes, do you have the ability to work on any other projects?

not exclusive to Star Trek. I mean, it takes up most of my time, but I do work on actually a number of features. Now all of them are still in production or development, so I don't think any of the big ones I've worked on have come out yet.  but yeah, I'm able to get plugged in  and that's what's been great is just all the writers and creatives that I've got to know working on this franchise that are now off doing their own projects will give me a call and bring me in to help out here and there.

So, yeah, it's

Awesome. Yeah, it's what a lovely community. And clearly you've proven that people just enjoy working with you. 

I hope so.

 so speaking of the, that whole team,  are there other,  advisors that are built into Star Trek, for example, like biology or engineering in addition to space

so I'm kind of the point person. And again,  my background is in space.  so I'm on retainer. They can call me. For anything, no matter what. But then we do also have a biologist, a biology professor from Duke University named Professor Mohammed. No, he came on with me for season three of Discovery and he's basically on call for the biology stuff.

he's a doctor that's on call. Yeah.

 and a lot of it is, I mean, he's,  great and I'm able to kind of run stuff past him and just double check intuition and everything. But a lot of it,  where I would want to reach out to other people. And again, that's where I kind of manage it as the science advisor is figuring out when we need to reach out to people.

 but it usually comes from developing stories rooted in a science that's not my expertise. Like I can fact check other sciences and I can have the resources and I know what questions to ask. But when it comes to like, We're going to take this idea about genetics, for example, and turn it into a whole plot.

Then I'm like, okay,  I don't know where the gray areas are. Like that's where Professor Nora gets a phone call.

right.

bring him in

Let's get a geneticist for

exactly.

 yeah. So what kind of time commitment is there then? You were saying it,  takes time and you're fact checking doing all of that. So  are you still doing a lot of your other science work? Like how often are you being pulled away from being an astrophysicist?

so I actually, I don't work as an astrophysicist anymore at all. I'm fully in the entertainment industry and most of it is Star Trek.  it totally fluctuates throughout the year. Like sometimes it's really quiet, but then other times it is just nonstop scripts hitting my inbox. And I still even after like.

Almost four or five years. What, at this point, working on it, I still haven't quite learned the lesson that an hour long script will take an hour to read.

Yeah.

it does take time and it is a lot of reading. but then I'm also on call, so like the showrunners, if they're in post-production and needs something or there's  a quick change to the script, they can reach out

To me, so it does keep me pretty busy. And when I'm not working on it, I work on other writing assignments, work on my own scripts or the production that,  you had mentioned earlier.

 That's awesome. So yeah,  I guess you kind of covered it, but  it's sounds like you're mostly involved from the onset and getting scripts.  is that when you're most frequently involved and,  are you ever sitting in on writing rooms or anything? Are you ever on set for anything or is it just being on call for like a reference

Yeah, usually the first season I work on a show, I will just get scripts delivered to me as they're being written. And it's just cuz I haven't built up that relationship yet. And so,  I'll edit them, I'll send my notes, maybe take a couple phone calls. But then as that relationship grows typically into the next season, they'll bring me in earlier when they're breaking the season,  they'll run.

The, overview past me and see what my thoughts are, at least to just prep me for what they're thinking and I can give some initial thoughts. And then a lot of the shows I do sit in the writer's room at least once a week, and both for my own education, just as a shadowing, but then also just to be available as questions arise that.

They know sometimes it's a little bit more effective to be like, let's make a note of that. And when Erin comes in on Wednesday, we'll ask her that, you know, and so  as things are developing,  it's fun. I, I love that process. I've never been on set. I would love to stand on the bridge of a Starship.

I think I would lose my

Is that just something that hasn't been possible yet, or just, you know, is it something you could ask  to

I would love to, I mean most of the shows, so we have two animated shows and then two of the shows film up in Canada and then Picard was down here and they were pretty covid strict. So with good reason, there wasn't much of an opportunity for me to do that. I did get to be on set for my first job, which was Orbital Redox and that was pretty special experience, but I just, I look forward to the day where I can stand on the bridge of a Starship cuz that would be pretty

I feel like that's in your future. I don't know, but  I feel like that's something that is going to happen.

 I don't wanna leave it remiss either, but I do work a lot in post-production as well, so helping out with,  graphics on screen copy. So when they'll pull up like statistics of a planet that they're looking at,  I help write those.  and then if they're looking at like a nebula or a black hole or something like that, then I'll, kind of just do a sanity check on it as they're developing the graphics.

That's so great.  for creators listening who are now thinking, oh, I need to consult with people,  experts in different fields.  you had said it's kind of  a weird. Process, and there's not job boards or anything for it, but do you have any potential advice for anyone who is,  looking to find,  whether it's medical, legal, science, any of these experts, if they wanna add to their thing?

Is there any, place  you might suggest that they could connect easier with people?

Yeah,  social media has been a great place to try to find people in that vein.  obviously it's changed a lot since when I started because most of it was on Twitter, and that's a little bit of a different landscape now. but yeah, social media has been a good place asking for recommendations.  and then there are a lot of writers who do have technical background, so even just finding fellow writers in your.

Area. Some of them might be biologists by trade, you know? Or medical professionals. Or legal professionals. And so,  yeah, I think just reaching out and asking the question. There are also some resources, like I think,  if people are in the W G A, the Writer's Guild of America, they do have a list of professionals,  people can reach out to.

 there's a thing called the Science and Entertainment Exchange,  that. People can find experts as well who offer free services  you know, that's a great entree on both sides. If there are scientists who wanna get involved on

Right. I was gonna say, and then on the flip side of that, if someone is an expert in one of these fields and they're like, but I, I wanna, 

Yeah,

that cool media production stuff. Okay. So that's cool. Yeah. It sounds like cons and things were great for you as well as an opportunity  you know, whether it's in science, but there's conventions for other fields as well, so that could be great places to connect people.

Yeah, and tying the media with it. And then for scientists who are interested, the other resource I would recommend is a place called Cover Fly. It's a website where screenwriters will post their scripts  to be seen by agents and it's a free service and they can submit to competitions and stuff like that too,  which is not free, but they can do it through Cover Fly.

 but there is also cover Fly X, which is like a peer-to-peer script sharing service where people can give notes on each other's scripts. And I would recommend that like you don't have to have a script to give notes. You just sign up and say, I'd like to read this. And you can filter by science fiction or legal procedural.

And then just getting in the habit of making notes and reading scripts and knowing what to look for. That's a great place to get experience and also get connected to writing up and coming writing professionals.

Mm-hmm. That's some great advice there.  so, yeah.  have you ever been asked for some ideas of your own or insider tips on cutting edge? New discoveries or things to put into stories?

Pretty frequently. I mean, some of it's like, Hey, did you see that cool thing in the news this week? is there something like we can do,  we need a space disaster. Is there a space disaster you can think of? or we wanna do something other than what we normally do. So just helping to brainstorm on that.

So I do try to keep up to speed with discoveries.  and ways to incorporate those into story. And sometimes I'll just get ahead of it and just forward it to the writer's rooms and say, Hey, this is pretty cool. You should check this out.

Yeah. So that's kind of like, uh, I was also gonna ask if there's any, uh, particular developments in your field that you'd love to see on the screen someday?

Oh, I mean I'm,  biased cuz my PhD was in gravitational waves, so that's been in the last few years, majors discoveries have happened and we were able to already get that in to start checks up and I actually wasn't even the one that suggested it. So I was really happy to,  see that and then 

Help tone that a little bit, but  yeah, so gravitational waves are, are great. They make me excited. I do think there is some fun stuff you could do with quantum entanglement, but usually that requires so much explanation and even that it already gives people a headache, so,

It just sounds really, really complex. Even the words. Yeah.  maybe there will be that next thing, like black holes where something will be teased out that somebody maybe was like, you know, there's this cool discovery. Um, So,  are all of your project science related,  that you focus on even with,  space time productions?

You do, you keep a science focus on all that?

 yeah. Most of the stuff I work on is science fiction.  just I love it,  but I always like to tell people, and you kind of touched on this as well, like it is a spectrum between science and fiction,  I'm also big into heavy metal. And so when you meet other heavy metal fans, it's like, yeah, but  what kind of heavy metal do you like?

Cause there's so many different kinds out there. And science fiction is like that too. There's the really, really hard sci-fi and then there's just kind of adventures in space, which are fun as well.  My interests run that whole spectrum. Like I do love all of that. And then with my production company in particular, it's about telling sci-fi stories, not necessarily in space, but sci-fi stories,  that are told from the perspectives of kind of underrepresented, mostly L G B T Q storylines.

So trying to incorporate some more representation in that space as well.

Mm-hmm.  so have you noticed on any shows, do they ever do disclaimers or credits  to a story being based on real science or actual developments? Or do they just kind of let it, let it ride?

never seen that. I think they just let it ride, that's actually a really good point because I do think there is a little bit of a cautionary tale in that, that a lot of people do have sometimes a misconception about what we have discovered and what we haven't discovered. And I remember when The Martian came out.

 there were a lot of people who were like, is this based on a true story?  Hidden Figures came out around the same time. So there was a lot of like space based on a true story, and it was like, this seems real,  the technology seems what we have. And so I do think it is good to be like, this is truth versus fiction, but we don't make that clear, you know?

Right. Yeah, because I know  there have been series and things in the past that say,  this is based on cutting edge stuff and it's exciting and people then might wanna research it or get into it. there's even that spectrum, even with the Martian,  there's a lot of it that's accurate and a lot of it that's not, and so you can't really divide.

I mean, maybe it would be nice to say, if you wanna follow up on this, uh,

But I

although there are podcasts and things that follow shows to, you could dive into those things

Yeah. And I do think some productions are doing that. Like they do give behind the scenes like I did with the Star Trek Prodigy and some of the Strange New World stuff.  here was some science facts behind this episode and I have seen  even, what was it? It's prehistoric planet on Apple tv.

I was just thinking of that. I was gonna say they've done such a good job and it's  the follow ups afterwards when you see the science that it's based on, that at least for me, enhances what I just saw. So it's really cool to see that.

Yeah, I'd love to see more of that, to be honest in

I know. I was like, could that be the same length? Yeah.  could those documentaries be the same length as the actual shows?

 and you also have really intense fandoms based around a lot of these franchises and people that will research things themselves. So you have to kind of, I assume, deal with some people really trying to test you on that or  prove what is right and what's

Yep. They mentioned about, you know, writing equations and copy that's seen on screen and there are people who freeze frame and check the math. No pressure. Yeah,

Well, it's good. You can always say, look, this is, this is fiction.

I tried.

It's a story. It's based on the story. But yeah, there are people like you out there making sure that that stuff checks out. So that is awesome. There's so much more we could get into, but,  this has been really helpful and really great.

Is there anywhere that people can,  find you online and learn more about stuff or, and any projects that are upcoming that you are able to, or would like to share about?

absolutely. So,  one film I'm producing right now is called Identities. It's a short film and it's being produced for Nebula. It's written and directed by Jesse Earl, who goes by Jesse Gender on YouTube.  she's a queer trans geek. Commentator, I think she, she'd appreciate me calling her that.  but she's got just a beautiful story.  it's narrative live action that we're making right now. And actually we've just announced the majority of our cast we have. Jackie Cox from RuPaul's Drag Races. In it we have Jessica Nicole from Fringe, and John Delane from Star Trek is gonna be in it as well.

I know. So big get there.  so yeah, keep an eye out for identities that's filming later this year and I'm really excited about that. And then,  I would say people can find me personally on Instagram, Dr. Aaron Mack, d r e r n m a c. And all my links are. Kind of associated with that. And then also,  support the writer strike.

 if this is still continuing by the time this comes out,



Yes. Well, thank you so much. This has been really interesting and exciting. I am,  jealous that you have such a cool job and you get to do what it sounds like you love. So that is amazing.  yeah, thank you so much for talking with us

Thank you. It was a pleasure to be here.