On May 2nd, 2023, the Writer's Guild of America or W G A went on strike.

As of this recording on August 22nd, there has still no been no agreement reached with the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television producers, or A M P T P. I'm your host Candace Block, and I'm joined today by Robbie Slovak, a W g a member standup comic TV writer, and podcast host based in New York City.

He's currently a writer for the problem with John Stewart on Apple TV Plus, and he appears regularly as a correspondent on the podcast of the same name. Robbie has performed standup on Conan and his album Live Near Carnegie Hall, plays frequently on SiriusXM. He performs regularly in New York City and headlines across the country.

Welcome to the show, Robbie.

Thank you for having me, Candace. I appreciate it.

So to start off, when did you become a member of the W G A and what's your current involvement with respect to the strike and all of that?

I became a member, I think in 2015, so I've been a member for about eight years now. that was the first time I was right after John Stewart had left the Daily Show and he was starting a new show on, you know, it was gonna be on H B O. And so that was my first, like,  I'd banged around a lot of little jobs, but had never really qualified for the WJ before then, because there's some earnings stuff and this and that.

So that was the first time I qualified and I'm working for John again now. and my relationship to the strike besides being, one of. 11,000 people on strike in the W G A, is, I'm a strike captain as well,  there's sometimes there's misconceptions with what it means to be a strike captain.

I think some people like it's portrayed as you're being, you're much more involved in the strike than you actually are, but really you're just someone who helps manage the pickets. and if you have a team of people, like for my writer's room, for example, like I will also suggest if they have questions or whatever, they'll get directed through me.

So it's basically, it's a lot, lower lift than it sometimes sounds. Captain's a very grand title

Yeah.  we've talked to different captains, strike captains throughout, and it's one of those questions that I'm glad you, you're answering because people don't know exactly what it means. but yeah. 'cause there's different shifts that people come and, you need people to help corral and know things and

that's exactly what it is. Yes. Herding creatives.

Exactly. so the strike began a whopping 112 days ago, or over three and a half months ago, which is at this point longer than the a hundred day strike from, 2007, but not quite yet, to the record holding a 1988 strike of 153 days. But looking all the way back, do you remember how you felt when it first officially began?

I'd say the way that I feel now, which is, anxious and nervous and, also resolute that the right decision had been made. You know, when you really are talking to people out on those picket lines and hearing people's stories and getting an understanding for what's going on in the industry as well as being in the industry.

myself, you see this as a necessary. Fight. And, one of the things that we'll see, you see a lot of people, most people seem to be in support of the strike actually, and I'm not talking about internally, I'm talking about externally. Just like regular, non-writers out in the world.

People who enjoy entertainment seem to be really standing with. The, writers and the actors at this point, but you do get some pushback that's like, Hey, I, in, in every regular job, you don't get to share in the success with this and that. and that's kind of the point, is that thanks to our strong unions, we've been treated pretty, fairly overall because of the sacrifices that have been made.

You mentioned the 2008 strike, the 1988 strike, which went for, what was it, 153? 153 days. that's half a year of income gone and that it takes years to recover from, for the people who are going through it. even with the gains that will come from the strike, hopefully it's going to take years to recuperate what's been lost.

But you do that to make sure you have some level of equity moving forward, that you're always, taking care of the future. Writers to come that, that this will always be a, a profession where you can build a life.

Yeah, and with the history of these strikes, it's unfortunate that there has to be strikes to move things towards, fairness. But it proves that it has, it's worked in the past. it will work now just, hang in there. Sorry. You've been anxious for over

Yeah.

days.

but can you just let our listeners know a little bit more like how were the conditions right before the strike, that was kind of the push for needing these new. Protections and new con like put into the contract.

Sure. so much of the agreement that we're operating under now goes back to the 2008 strike, which is a very necessary strike. But that was the very beginning of trying to understand how, Basically the internet makes you sound so old when you say the internet as a thing, but how that was going to, impact the way people, watch television shows and movies.

So it was in its infancy and an agreement was hammered out around them, but it's not an agreement that represents the modern world. the streaming giants didn't really exist back then. Netflix was still mailing people, DVDs at that point. YouTube was just kind of starting out.

so, the agreement that was hammered out does not represent what the world looks like today. and because of that, the main ways people are watching the shows that they love, writers and actors and directors aren't getting compensated the way they're supposed to be when that happens.

Yeah. so the strike centers around, receiving fair residuals for streaming service like you were talking about, and protections against the use of AI technologies and all of that. can you talk a little bit about which of the demands feel the most important to you? I know they're all important,

Sure. 

also some that people don't

demands that feel the most important. and this is I'm, I guess I'm speaking for, for me here, and not, I'm not speaking as an official representative of the Guild, but the ones that feel the most important are, surprise. The ones that are getting the most pushback from the A M P T P.

Right? So one of the ones that, that the A M P T P has done a pretty good job of trying to build some pushback on is the idea of, minimum room size. so that means, you know, generally the TV shows that people love and watch are written by a group of, anywhere from eight to 14 writers.

that's why the shows are really good, right? Because it's not just, except in some rare cases of Mike White and White Lotus or whatever, it's not just one person banging those out. It's a room full of people all working really hard to make sure the script that's delivered is the best possible version of that script.

now, What's happened to the industry, especially with the advent of streaming and them not being, tied to the same contracts that, networks have been tied to before, means that shows are saying, look, instead of getting a room of 12 to 14 people who are going to work for, 22 weeks writing the show and then come to set for 10 to 12 weeks while we film the show at.

What we're gonna do is we're gonna form something called a mini room. We're gonna get three or four people, they're gonna sit together for a month and they're going to break stories. So essentially that means like come up with the storylines that the scripts will be, or the arc of the season or whatever, and then we'll take all of those outlines essentially, and we'll pass it off to just one or two writers.

Those one or two writers will write everything and maybe one of them will be the only one who will be on set. So what that means is what used to be a job that, 14 people would work for 36 weeks, they'd still, have to deal with not working for three months a year. but. They were stable enough knowing that I make money this much of the year, then I can come back.

The show gets renewed, I'll have it next year. But what's happened now, is that four people get to work for one month, two people get to work, and it's probably two of those four get to work for the full. Eight months and that's it. So that's 10 jobs gone. And it's not just jobs being gone, that means that's 10 people not paying into, the guild, which means the guild falls apart.

You're not gonna get healthcare if you go from 11,000 members qualifying to 3000 members. it won't be able to support its own existence and the benefits that come along with that. And the other thing that is, A pretty big deal about this mini room change is that it eliminates the career progression that writers have worked hard for.

one of the nice things about writing everything in show business is unstable. you, you didn't pick this life thinking I want to be, stable and in one place and have a regular career ladder. But writing has the closest version of that, which is you come in as a staff.

Then you become a story editor, then a producer, co eep, a supervising producer, co e p e p. It's like a chain that as you grow as a writer and also grow as a producer simultaneously. 'cause that's part of the job, right? You're onset, you are helping produce when, you need a new line, you're firing off new lines to the actors and, you're collaborating with the director you are.

Learning how to produce TV so that eventually you can become a showrunner, so you can make that journey from staff writer to executive producer. And also with every one of those title bumps is a pay bump, commensurate with your experience. but now they would prefer that they can just keep you.

If you are lucky enough to be one of the three or four people in the mini room bouncing from mini room to mini room, never going to set. So you never learn to produce tv. You never grow. It's ultimately, the same model as gig work, right? Which is we'll turn on the Fs. We'll order you up on an app.

You'll show up, you'll give us three weeks of writing, and then you'll be hopefully for you onto the next gig, onto the next lily pad. but you'll never grow. You will always be making the minimum jumping from lily pad to lily pad if you're lucky enough.

Well, I mean, it sounds as you lay it out, it's even more, nefarious their plans  or from an outside perspective at least to keep you all separate and working less and less. and, that's why these types of things, when everyone comes together in solidarity is so important.

I do think it's also particularly, fitting that we are recording this on August 22nd, which is, National Day of Solidarity. so W g A East, w g A West, SAG AFTRA and A F L C I O are coming together for this sort of Hey, it's solidarity for all of this. and it's true you've got the strength in numbers.

So it's, that's why we here stand in support and solidarity as well.

The other unions, by the way, I just wanna say have been, fantastic. Like I. And the teamsters. And so that's, yeah, I'm talking crew. That's the people who do the cameras and the lighting and the schedule, all that stuff. Like they have  mostly refused to cross picket lines. Now everything is kinda shut down 'cause the actors are, it puts into perspective your role as a writer.

Like when the writers are on strike show business is like, we'll be fine for a year. and then  the actors went on strike and everything just shut down immediately.  while it was just the writers picketing, I oxi, like crew members would not cross picket lines and it shut down productions and that affects them.

this is affecting. Thousands and thousands of people beyond just, the writers who are making the choice to strike. we don't take it lightly that this is impacting the caterers and the camera guys, and the lighting guys and the PAs and like this is shutting down an entire industry.

I mean, there are in New York, but in Los Angeles there's entire, Dry cleaning operations that exist only to do dry cleaning for. Yeah. it's like that whole city is shut down because of

also for our listeners, ii is the International Alliance of Theater Stage Employees. I know there's a lot of, acronyms that fly around during all of this. That's why I like to set it up at the beginning too, to just be like, this is what we're talking about.

I don't, honestly, I don't even think I knew that. I

Yeah, I knew it was

I love

for a while before I looked it up, and I was like, but what does that actually mean?

I now know all of them 'cause of, researching for these wonderful interviews with all these great people on strike. speaking of another acronym, M b A, can you explain the minimum basic agreement to our listeners?

as a very basic protection of these contracts, we fight for, what we have is a minimum basic agreement, which means for whatever the job is, and at the title level, there is a minimum amount that you can pay the writer. So for me, I'm, we're talking a lot about episodic, but I'm a late night variety writer.

we're a little more of an afterthought in this whole thing. In fact, our schedule of minimums is Appendix A 'cause we were just like, they tacked us on at some point. But I write for a late night variety show that is on Apple TV plus, which is a streamer. and because of the contracts being out of date, streamers don't have to acknowledge any type of minimum basic.

for late night variety Appendix A, that was just not put in the agreement. but in general, if you are a, like network TV writer or whatever, there is a minimum amount of money that you have to get every week depending on your title, which is part of why they want to keep people at the lowest title possible so they can keep paying them the M B A minimum.

Also, man, I don't have this number. In. Oh, I do. So 10 years ago, 33% of series writers worked for W G a minimum 33%. which was, I don't, I'm bad at math. That means 67% were making above the minimum. Now it's 50% are working at the minimum.  you see the way the trend is going, what used to be the minimum, and then you could negotiate up, has just become the salary.

Your salary, no matter what, will always be the minimum.

But thankfully because of the W G A and their collective action, the minimums are healthy and good, but they do need to be adjusted for the times because, adjusted for inflation, writer compensation has dropped 23% over the past.

I think over the past decade is down 23% when adjusted for inflation.

Yeah, and everyone knows, everyone existing in society now knows life is more expensive and wages never seem to keep up. so  speaking of money, I've read varying reports about how much it would take annually for the studios to meet the demands of the W G A. do you happen to know more specifically how much it would take?

'cause I know it's often you hear these number or people wanna know more specifically, and then when you hear these numbers. And you realize how much even the heads of these companies or the companies make each year, you realize this is not something insurmountable or unreasonable.

So for this, the best you can do is estimates on exactly what it would cost, but. Moody's has done an estimate, and Moody's is, about as respected and trusted in the financial world as you can be. this is what they do, credit ratings and these types of assessments.

And Moody's has said it would be anywhere from 450 to 600 million additional dollars to, for the A M P T P to. give the writers everything they want. Sag that's the actors everything they want. And, adjusting for the d g A contract that's already been ratified. So for all three major guilds, it would cost them an additional 450 to $650 million a year.

Which sounds it is, it's a lot of money. But I do wanna put it in perspective that last year, eight studio CEOs. Took home $773 million. So when, I don't know how many people are in the D G A, but SAG and the W G A combined is 170,000 people, so that's 170,000 people asking for less than eight people took home last year. It's a no-brainer.

a great way to put it. Yeah, I, because I had heard some of those numbers in the 400 plus and, but I didn't realize that was combining the different,

That's all three unions and another number that I just like, keeps me up at night is that this year, Fox News. Which is a one division of 1:00 AM P T P signatory, right? One division of Fox, which is I think a division of Disney at this point. I can't keep up with it, but the point is they paid out $750 million in one single lawsuit, and they're still here and they're doing fine in one lawsuit.

We're asking for less than

to them, and they just, they raise the streaming rates anyway to make up for it

Yes. Yeah, they just raised the rates. and they'll continue to raise the rates. we, this is just every industry. This is that slow drip game of look at all this content. It's only $2. And then, six years later you're taking out a mortgage to watch Moana or whatever.

Yeah, it's what a society we live in, eh. but, anyway, switching to some happier things potentially. what has been the overall vibe like at the pickets and the things that you've been at? I know there's been a general sense of solidarity is there's still like a lot of hope and like happiness in

It's, I like to joke that, 'cause I'm here in, New York and any time like when you're on Twitter or whatever, it's always at the LA strikes, it's like Dave Grohl stopped by to hand out breakfast burritos with the foo fighters. And here in New York, it's like Seth Meyers got tetanus from a rat attacker, whatever.

But so the vibe is a little, they're very different places, but. it's been really like inspiring to see just first of all how like full the pickets still are this many days in. It was such a nice, look, I, you wish they weren't, they didn't have to go on strike either. But it was such a nice like  morale boost when SAG started to show up as well.

I was also like finally someone who can sell these chants. 'cause the writers aren't doing a great job of it.  Having them show up as well. Really boosted morale, and it's been like really nice that everyone out there is just resolute and con, confident and comfortable in the fact that they're doing the right thing.

They're doing what has to be done. it's an existential fight for writers and actors. especially some of the things that they're pitching around actors, right? That makes the, it just truly an existential. Fight. So everyone feels there's a lot of resolve, there's a lot of solidarity. obviously there's gonna be some dissent in anything.

This nothing is a hundred percent. and people do, you start to get frustrated, right?  people need an income. And I think, one of the things people ask me when I talk to people is like, and so what does, like the guild just give you a stipend? how does that work? It's like, no, no one's getting money.

No, we're on strike and no one is giving us, no one's giving us money here. 

Yeah. we can talk, more later about, some of the sort of emergency financial assistance stuff, but, getting into the SAG after adjoining and all these other unions.  as you had mentioned before, At the beginning of this strike, the writers have been on strike for, months before SAG after joined and others.

 You mentioned the impact of them joining for morale, but it also is great because you have, they are just physically a larger union, as you said, like 160,000 members and you guys are like 11,000. and you have those. More well-known celebrities and actors and the people who perhaps, can weather this easier, but they're bringing awareness and visibility to these fights because now more all of pop culture caress about what's going on because they see all of their, the people they see in front of the camera.

out there fighting and everything. and it's also extended beyond even the entertainment industry. There's talks about, the economic impact to, states and other industries and everything. can you say a little bit more, maybe even about the importance of the solidarity of all of the unions,

Yeah, I, I do want to reiterate how amazing just out the gate like Izi. was in, in respecting the picket lines not crossing, basically fully shutting down productions, which is a big deal. they're not the ones technically on strike and a lot comes down on them when they say, I'm not gonna cross this picket line and do my job today 'cause I'm respecting my fellow unions.

And that shuts down production. And that's, that pisses off executives, they're losing a lot of money when that happens. So that's just, it's, it was brave. And, inspiring and their solidarity. Solidarity was amazing. And then, the same with the actors.

there, there's been such a kinship between, the actors and the writers in all of this. They've been amazing. And that's, that's a bit of a cat and dog relationship, historically in a lot of ways. that's been it. It's been really. Nice to have that support and makes you feel like you're part of something bigger as well.

'cause we're supporting them in the same way. 

it feels like this is like a watershed moment for labor and unions in general. more people are unionizing for the first time as well, seeing what's going on here.

and as you pointed out, this is a fight not even just specifically for those, Specific demands of each, guild and everything. It's about, respect for a worker and like generally speaking, just keeping up with the times and not having this insane imbalance of the workers getting exploited and, just a select few making obscene amounts of money.

Yeah, a hundred percent. if you poke me, I'll go off on a long, political rant about, income inequality and wealth inequality and how the death of unions has been a big part of kind of the spread of income inequality. And then I'll rant about Ronald Reagan for 30 minutes and you'll stop recording and people will stop listening.

But a hundred percent, like the resurgence of unions is, it's a reaction. To what we're seeing in the world, which is more and more accumulation of wealth at the very top and everyone else getting left behind.

Yeah. And a refusal to be exploited.

That's right.

Yeah. so just with some recent things, how do you feel about the, very recent ruling from a federal judge about AI created art not being able to be copyrighted and protected?

Does that help, the fight for these

I think so I also think like these companies have like really fantastic top tier legal teams and they'll probably find their ways to massage that. I think it says, I just looked at it briefly and I'm also not super smart, so I but it seems like stuff that was like fully ai.

Created, it can't be copyrighted, but it seems like if you have a room of people and they come up with the characters, the people do, and then AI runs with the story, then you probably, I, that seems pretty copyrightable to me still, so I'm not sure that fully protects us, but it's a great step in the right direction and acknowledging that, a AI is not the same as something that's created by people, and it shouldn't be copyrightable for that purpose.

Yeah.

Yeah. so before we kind of wrap things up, the Entertainment Community Fund has been really helpful for this industry in this time.

is that the main source of, sort of aid that you all are getting?

That is the main source of aid. definitely  if that's something you're in a position to donate to, you absolutely should. And that's not I haven't really talked to many writers who have dipped into that, but that, that's really  that's for anyone in the entertainment community.

people who maybe, didn't have any savings going to this. Especially if you're like PAs or whatever, cater any of that stuff, you, you're eligible for that. It's not just for like writers and actors or whatever. It's for anyone who needs it. And I believe that's been a pretty good lifeline for people.

Yeah.

what are some ways that, writers are still able to get any work during this time while still respecting the strike rules?

 in my case, I work in like the comedy late night variety world. So like most of us are also performers. so standup, allows you to make a, subsistence at best, living. But live performance is still out there. and for other, People. it's really hard.

It's whatever else you can do. if you can find a copywriting, contract work, which is really hard to do in these times  or if you have any other skillset, whatever that is, including going back to waiting tables or whatever, like people have gonna have to do what they have to do.

and that's just what it is.

Yeah. Oh man. Well, as you said before, you don't have to be a W G A member to show support, anyone can show up to pickets and rallies. Anyone can donate to the emergency assistant funds. you can be vocal on social media, so whether you're in the guild, in the industry or not. do you, can you let us know where, our listeners can show their support for the affected workers during the strike and learn more?

Yeah, if you can actually go to the, wgas website. If you're on the East Coast. it's, I think it's wga east.com. I think.org actually. And then just wga.org for the main site. And there'll be a little tab you can click that says strike information, strike center, whatever that will tell you where pickets are.

You're welcome to show up to that. I think there's a few like Amazon wishlists, like for the pickets where you can send, stuff, be it like markers so people can make signs and stuff like that, or snacks or whatever. any of that stuff is, helpful and very much, appreciated. And, if you drive by one of these things, I, it's crazy, it's so funny at like this point in your life, but the morale impact of someone honking their horn is like, it makes a big difference.

You're just like, people showing solidarity in any way just feels  nice, especially when you're just out there walking in circles in the heat for four hours.

there's also, uh, WGA contract 2020 three.org that has a little bit, more about the strike specifically as well. And we're gonna put all of these links, including one for the Entertainment Community Fund in the show notes.  but before we wrap up, is there anything else you'd like to add or a final parting thought?

I think there's, after however many days we're at now, what are we at? A hundred and something 112

this, when this comes out, fingers crossed, we'll already be resolved by them, but we don't know. 

I finally feel like there's, some cause for optimism. both sides are like negotiating right now. They're negotiating what seems like good faith, and you can tell because there's not a ton of press leaks. there's a few but not many. So they're staying silent and doing, I. Work and negotiating.

I'm hoping this thing will be over soon. Everyone just wants to get back to work. We wanna make sure that everyone who's been affected by this can get back to work and we can move forward with a contract that's, as fair and equitable as it can be.

Yeah, well, we stand in solidarity here at Women in Film and Video. I've got some of my, gear and donated and all of that as well. And I keep looking for some events to stop by too. So, thank you so much for joining us today and, stay strong and good luck out there. And, all the best for all of you and everyone on strike right now.

All right. Thank you so much, Candace. Thank you for having me and for amplifying this as well.

Of course.