welcome everyone to Media and Monuments podcast. I am your host for this episode, Tara Jabari. And today we have Chim DeHeer. she's a content creator and creative coach with over 20,000 subscribers on YouTube. Welcome Chimney.

Thank you for having me.

so yeah, the media and monuments concentrates on onscreen.

Or screen-based media and things that are growing and it's not looking like it's ever gonna die down or slow down is the idea of content creators or influencers. on top of that, we are going through currently at the time of recording a strike with the W G A and SAG Afra, and We also wanted to get information out there for our listeners.

so it was sort of like a compromise to focus on a little bit more on this new form of  creative content. and also still have something active because we are on hold, respectfully 'cause we are a support of the strike. so I wanted to first ask, how did you start? First start? For work

Wow. I think it technically it started for work, maybe after the pandemic or after the, the initial sort of lockdown. Exactly. So I quit my job in March of 2021, and at that point I essentially had my YouTube channel as a source of income, primarily through AdSense. I'm in a random sponsor here or there, but before that I'd been on YouTube for a good like four and a half years, just as something that I'd love to do, and I'd been making money from it on the side, but it was truly never enough to really sustain myself.

That's awesome and actually one of your most popular videos. I think the second most popular video was. When you quit your job, without a backup plan to be a content creator, full-time and a creative coach full-time,  and one thing that I noticed, you have been making YouTube for a long, longer period of time.

'cause you're number one video is even older than that. And it's about how to close your gap tooth with a rubber band. That's so cool. I didn't watch that one 'cause I don't have a gap tooth. But,

Wasn't

but it's so interesting to see the different content that you were making and are you seeing how weird or how interesting it is that it becomes more viewed, like the gap tooth and then quitting your job are so popular, but, and then once sometimes you think this is gonna be really popular and it doesn't really, what's that experience?

It is so strange because you really think you can predict what people will like and consistently the videos that have gone the most viral on my channel, I never would've thought that they would resonate the way they did. In part because it felt so specific to my own experience, which I think speaks to how the things that we maybe are scared to talk about or are feel like, yeah, just some fear to really express.

Are the things that people most wanna hear, because I felt shame around using rubber bands to close my gap. I thought that was like a sign of poverty and of like not having access to, dental care. and I thought it was like ghetto, honestly. But I was like, well, it helped me.

And really whenever I would mention it to people that was what I did, they would be, their eyes would open so wide and they would be like, you need to make a video about that. So I was like, okay. And then it was this huge thing. And then similarly with quitting my job, I felt. I had a lot of belief systems around that being something really irresponsible to not have a backup plan.

And also just, I really do believe in the power of relationships and networking when it comes to your career. So I thought, am I really sabotaging myself by making a video where I'm honest about how hard it was for me to work at that last role when, that's the way I've gotten jobs is through my networking, through who I know.

So I had a lot of fear with, with many of those videos. my kind of number one video right now is about not smoking marijuana anymore. And that's a similar thing where I felt a lot of fear and. Guilt and shame about using substances and things like that. So it's been really strange to try to be like, okay, I think this will hit and then it doesn't at all.

And this thing that I'm honestly reluctant to share, but I think I should, ends up being the thing that like blows my channel up.

 It is. And what you said was like, you never know what's going to. Be the hit and what people respond close to. That's been something I've noticed with other influencers that we've spoken to, is at some point their anxiety goes over like, well, why did this get more likes than the other one? what did I do wrong and what did I do right? so they have to kind of realize there are some things that are totally out of your control.  how do you deal with. You're like, I worked really hard on this. And I know as an editor a lot goes into it, the sound,  the shots, all that stuff. And then when it doesn't make such a huge hit, or if somebody says something online, how do you take care of yourself?

I think what's super duper helpful is having like a spiritual practice and having like inner healing work and inner child work and all these other things because if we are, to be honest, we could do the traditional nine to five route and not have to deal with some of these emotional ups and downs, or we would deal with a different set of emotional ups and downs.

And so all of us who choose to be online creators, we know what we're getting into to some extent, and that's just. Part of the territory a little bit. but essentially I have to be okay with creating because I actually want to do it. And because I actually have fun and I actually enjoy doing all the editing, and it's when I get caught up thinking like, how is it gonna perform when I'm so outcome focused, that's when I get tripped up because then I feel every single cut I make in Premier Poe and I feel every single, setup that I do to get some more B roll.

Like I feel the labor of it because I'm not. Present in the moment thinking about it, I'm thinking about the views that'll come as a result. So I think being able to just genuinely enjoy what I do, and I was doing it for so long without making a dime and when no one was watching. So I have that practice already of knowing it's possible that no one will watch this and no one will care.

And if I didn't like doing it, then it really was a waste of time. So at least I can always get something out of having enjoyed the process. one thing that I. I am still working on is the negative response or negative comments 'cause this as a human being, we wanna be loved, we wanna be encouraged, we wanna be seen.

And so when people either don't see you, like you're clearly just like a cipher for them to work through, something they're going through and they're just like using you as an object basically. Or they like genuinely misinterpret you and then they feel really angry and upset. that is really tough.

And then of course, being a black woman, there's also that additional element of mass noir and getting racist comments and comments about my femininity and things like that. and those are things that, they're the very opposite of why you get into sort of creating online is you want people to be like, you're so pretty and cool and smart, and I love you.

So to get the opposite of that, you're like, wait, that's not why I'm here. So that's something I'm still working through. but similarly, it's just. For me, it's about pouring love on myself, having compassion for myself, knowing that I didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings, knowing that people have their own stuff going on, and just knowing that ultimately, like the majority of people are super kind and supportive and lovely and encouraging and that's like the truth that I can connect to.

Yeah, it's interesting. Social media grew when people were doing it personally between their friends and family. And, you put on an outfit and they'll be like, oh, you look so pretty. and then when you get more. Outside of your bubble, somebody's Ooh, that is not your color.

Or, Ooh, you look gross in it. And then, but like you said, I think more times than not, You, correct me if I'm wrong, but sometimes more times than not they are actually like, oh wow, you're so pretty. Or that's such a great dress or whatever, where'd you get it? And all that stuff. So there's more  positivity, than negativity.

But we like we're human and we sort of get stuck on that negativity.

Exactly, and it gives me so much more. like I'm even more in awe of like the superstars in our world because of course they have the fame and the success and the money on a much bigger scale than the average person, but the amount of abuse and hate and cruelty they face online is disproportionately much larger.

And I can sense in myself a genuine fear about. Being bigger and growing my channel because I know that it will be proportional. as I get more love, I'll also get more of that negativity and hate. And I also see that it's, I see how much it really is not actually about the person. So I was like on Instagram for instance, and someone made some post about like Zendaya, who we all know is gorgeous and talented and great.

Somebody was like, she's not even that hot. And I was like, zenday. I was like, okay, so we're just talking. We're not, that's when I realized like, Every single person who's like huge on that level, they'll have people who just default have a reaction to them because of their own stuff. And so I know I have to work through that, but like you said, it really does one bad comment compared to 10 positive ones.

You'll remember the negative. And I have to like intentionally sit myself down and do a process where I like, okay, why did that hurt your feelings chimney? And really let myself release it. yeah, I'm still working on that.

 how did you decide. You wanted to get into this industry of digital con or content creation? Were you always in media or anything like that?

Definitely growing up I always consumed a lot of media, a lot of tv, a lot of movies, and I really felt the power in my own experience of how when you've got a lot going on in your personal life, being able to escape to the screen, whatever screen it is, it's a lifesaver and it really helps you get through and it really show, it's a window to a new world and it shows you what's possible, even if people don't always look like you, but okay, this is possible.

And then beyond that, this didn't just, appear out of nowhere. People worked really hard and a lot of different people worked hard to make this a reality, and they did it because they love it. They did it because they really enjoy making a movie, a TV show, writing all these, acting, all these different things.

And so I experienced that really early and then I. When YouTube was still sort of new-ish, I remember watching videos and I would primarily watch them for hair content. So I wasn't really watching get ready with knees or makeup or, like life or I don't know, like comedy skits. I was primarily watching hair tutorials.

I was like, I need to know how to do my natural hair. And I would watch these videos and I had an intrinsic understanding that I could do it and I could do it well.  because I watched so much traditional media, I could see the way. Online content could leverage what we see in traditional media to make better edits and better cuts, and have better audio and sound and all these different things, and it could be this artistic expression as well.

And so that was always in the back of my mind and I am I'm very, I have a lot of self-efficacy, so I was like, I can do it. And so I just did the research. I was like, okay, what kind of camera do you get? What kind of audio do you get? And I just practiced and then eventually put out my first video and it got a couple thousand views, which is pretty good for first video.

and that felt like a sort of thumbs up from the universe saying yeah, you can do this girl. And then never looked back. And that was in 2017.

Did you, how did you get so many views on your first video, or why do you think that happened?

I did my research and that, it's so interesting 'cause I have really changed my approach. So part of me is girl, why don't you do that again? But I did my research to see what are the keywords, what are the topics, what's trending? And I really looked to see where there was a gap in the market.

So when I as a, as someone who consumed hair content, I was looking for certain things when I didn't see it. I would then say, oh, okay, then if I make that, I'm probably not the only one searching for that. So a lot of my videos came because no one else was making a video like that, and I was willing to create something because I wanted to grow, and because it was something that already matched my interest.

I also wasn't afraid of promoting, I think that's something I noticed, especially as a coach working with artists, is that there's. Already some fear in just putting themselves out there. But then when it comes to blasting all their family and friends with the links saying, Hey, watch to support it.

Texting, there's a little bit of that shyness. 'cause there's that fear about what people will say and all that stuff. And I didn't have that. I was like, Facebook friends email, like I was like sending it to everyone. so I think the combination of my own. Promo mixed with having a video that actually, fit a need in the market is what allowed that first one to do and I could be wrong, but I think YouTube does give you a little bit of a push if it's your first video.

But

Or at least at the time that you did it. Yeah. 'cause that's still, it's so many things have changed since 2017 on algorithms and stuff, but that is very good because I am, Constantly ask like, why didn't my YouTube get video? And these are usually, like baby boomers are older who are experts, like scientists, and they have these videos that they wanna share, and they're like, no one's watching it.

I'm like, did you share it on your LinkedIn? No. And I'm like, W Yeah, that's the first step is like people you know will watch it. Now we can also like, she's but what about the Ss e o? and I'm like that is a big part of it. The title, the description, all that stuff. But you also need to self-promote and don't be ashamed to do it.

Exactly. And I think there's a real snowball method. It's from,  like we said, the algorithm's always changing, but my understanding is that, YouTube will show the video to the people who subscribe to you first. And if they like it and really respond, then they'll start sharing it wider than that.

But if the people in your own network don't care enough to click, they're not gonna then promote it outside of that. And I think it's, I heard that advice and I do think it's  like really resonant, which is, if. If you're creating content and your own family and friends aren't interested or don't care, even if it's just like your colleagues who are in the same field as you and they don't find it interesting, it's gonna be really hard to go beyond that.

So you really need to nail down like what is it that makes you a compelling person to watch and makes your videos compelling to watch before thinking that you're gonna blow up.

Yeah, that is great advice. you also mentioned that you did research on tools, and that's one of the questions I have is what are some of your favorite tools, editing the camera, that kind of stuff that you wouldn't mind sharing?

Yeah, so I actually started, using iMovie on my Mac, which was free. It was only after a couple years that I upgraded to Premiere Pro because I like, I was very aspirational and I'm glad I was ambitious and I was like, this is what the professionals use, so I'm gonna use this. But for a while I really leveraged just the free editing software and it got the job done.

And the video, that's the biggest one on my channel, was made with iMovie. and then, I did some research and they said that the Canon one, one of the creators I followed was using a Canon C five I and recommended it. So I bought that. I think they're up to like 14 or something. that's like a iPhone six or something in terms of in terms of camera equipment.

But it's held me down. I think the main thing with cameras too is about it's the lens really. So I use a Sigma 35 millimeter lens. That's held me down. I used to use, a separate audio and I would have to like, clap my hands to sync it up. What I realized with creating, there's already so much work, especially in the beginning.

So anything you can do to reduce the barriers to entry, you definitely wanna leverage. So now I use the kind of mic where you just plug it directly into your camera, like the directional mic. just from Amazon. I don't think it's anything special. I don't remember the name of it. but that's super helpful.

yeah, and I'd say. iMovie is great, but Premier Pro does allow me to have so many more like options, which is I really do appreciate that. And one thing that I only got much later in my experience was, Getting to participate in ado, Adobe's pre premier pro like creator camp, which is specifically to support creators in learning how to use Premier Pro.

And there were just basic things around, like organizing my files that I just wasn't doing, or just like having a workspace that I used when I logged on. And literally I felt. It was like the, it was this incredible anger. 'cause I felt the decades of my life that I had lost, just the amount of time it took so long to edit one video.

And I was like, if I just had these basic things, I could have saved days of my human, my precious human existence. So I think as much we just as you can do before you get started in terms of. How to set yourself up for success. It goes such a long way, and I, if I could go back in time and tell myself one thing, it would be to just get these like basic things set up.

Now your YouTube, and like your Instagram, it says you help artists grow their audience and clients and opportunities with consistent and authentic content creation.

 what does that mean?

Yeah, so essentially it means like all types of artists. So I've worked with like poets, but I've also worked with like interior designers. I've also worked with like event planners, which might say something about me needing to get my audience a little bit more square down. but essentially folks who.

In my experience, they have a lot of talent. They have friends and family who see and encourage it, but they have some fear around showing up and showing up in a consistent way. And so a lot of the time it's really about holding space for them to be with the fear that they have around showing up and then holding them accountable.

So it's okay, Monday at noon we're gonna get on a call and you are gonna go on your Instagram and you're gonna make these posts. So for instance, I had an interior design client.  she'd been doing it for years.  it was her passion. Everyone knew about it. People would dmm her asking for advice, like it was her thing, but she didn't present herself as that.

So I was like, okay, we're gonna just start by changing your Instagram bio and creating nine posts that are about you and Siri designing. It'll be like, brainstorm the different topics, da. And it was like, okay, at this day and time you're gonna make the first post. And that's often what it comes down to is we have these.

Dreams and we have these passions and they feel nebulous and they feel scary and big, but often it's as simple as pick a photo, write this caption, and and so having someone to just hold you accountable to doing that makes a difference. And so I. With that client. For instance, within a week she had someone reaching out to her to pay her for her interior design services because the audience was already there waiting for her to show up.

So a lot of it is working with these clients to get specific about their creative strategy and then holding them accountable to actually execute against it.

That's great. Yeah.  being held accountable, just like how you're expected to come into the office at nine and leave at five. This is your version of accountability. Did you post, did you comment? The second question I had was you say, the consistent aspect, but authentic content creation, and I think authenticity is actually quite difficult to find sometimes in real life. even when I go get like a coffee or something, they're like, how are you? It is just, It's not an authentic question to ask, right? we just do it. And you're like, great, thanks you, on all sorts of stuff. And I remember one time the man, had an accent and he said, how are you? And I said, no. And he is oh, you didn't have a good day. And I was like, oh, I'm sorry. That's what you were Actually, I did have a really bad day. Now that you bring it up. I mishired what you said. how are you? He is oh, I'm so sorry. Actually my day was bad too. And I'm like, hopefully, it'll get better this week. maybe we got all the bad today and it became a little bit more authentic and genuine.

But it was so funny that I Was like, what did he say? No? And I was like, oh, this is uncommon now. You put it online. There's no real back and forth. Not that immediate, back and forth. So what does it mean to be authentic online, and how do you know when you're not doing it?

that's, I really love that story, but I love that story for a few reasons. One, because I think all of life is mirrored in every moment. And so when I hear that story, what I think about is sometimes we do sleepwalk through life a little bit and we also, I. Go into experiences expecting it to be a certain way.

So I think if you go into a coffee shop thinking this person doesn't care about me, they're just doing their job. When they ask me this question, they don't mean it. You're gonna give them an energy that matches. I personally walk through life as if everyone is so happy to see me and they can hardly wait to talk to me and I'm like, Hey.

And then we, so that kind of changes the way I engage with the world. But I think in order to do that, you also need to feel like, it's safe for you to do that. That's a really big thing with, my clients is that especially with folks who, are non-binary or who identify in other ways that aren't, cisgendered, all these different things is like, there is a very legitimate.

Experience in their real life and online of folks being attacked and even losing their lives 'cause of how they identify and how they show up. So it's not just a matter of wanting to put a fun video on the internet. It's like their identity and their very existence is at stake. And in my experience, like in that example, it's, that's very obvious.

But even in, even for every, for everyone, there's a certain level of like existential fear that comes with showing up authentically in our friendships and in our family and in our work, as well as online. And so there's just different, it's just a, it's a spectrum, but we all have some element of it.

And so what I really work with my clients on is about doing that internal work to feel safe. Themselves in their own body. Because if you can't even walk through your work, or your family or your relationships and be yourself, of course you're not gonna be yourself online. So first going to okay, in my every day, What are some ways that I am dishonoring myself?

What are some ways that I am saying yes when I wanna be saying no? What are some ways where, I actually have a passion and I, I don't wanna do it 'cause I'm scared Someone's gonna think a certain way and not saying you need to go from zero to a hundred, but that's what's one way you could be a little bit closer to doing this thing that you actually really and really enjoy?

And that process of being really gentle with yourself and being really kind and taking it slow, but then also proving to yourself that. Then you make these little promises to yourself, okay, I said I was going to I really wanna get into painting, so I'm gonna just go to an arts and craft store.

Not even gonna buy anything. I'm just gonna go to the store and just look around. And even that can be fearful if it's tied to some stuff around what does it mean to express yourself and maybe your family doesn't improve of you being creative, da. So just making these little steps. And showing okay, when I make a promise to myself, I keep it.

And I thought it was gonna be scary, but it actually wasn't. those things make a huge difference and that's what I see again and again with my clients is they're like, I was so scared but I did it and it wasn't that big of a deal. And they like it's like a door being opened to their new life where they're like, wow, all this stuff is possible.

And it's really cool to be with people at that moment of like realization.

That is really well put. Thank you. I also noticed that you did have a podcast yourself, but it hasn't been, you haven't been really doing it, or at least no new releases in a while.

I just got back, I'm on episode two of the second season, so this is, I just got back into it. No, I, it's been like in the last two weeks, like I think since you reached out and between the time I said for reaching out and us having this conversation, I have since gone back

So one, one of my questions was, you are doing Instagram, you do YouTube and the podcasting and I'm sure many other platforms. How did you decide oh, what works for me, what didn't and that kind of thing?

what I noticed,  it's really interesting to see, and I think anyone who starts something creatively and goes for a while will notice something similar is the stuff that used to take me weeks to do when I first started. Now take me days like it used to take so much emotional, not even thinking about the physical effort.

So much emotional effort to be like, set up this camera, talk into it. Edit it, put it out like that itself was a mountain, And so what I found is that, As I got really comfortable doing every kind of creative task, then I did start looking around. I was like, okay, what's the next challenge?

And so that's how it was when I started my podcast, which I started, a year ago. but I also was in a particular place in my life where I had just moved to New York. I was, really lonely. I didn't have a lot of friends  I was having all these experiences. I wanted to process them and I didn't think they would be helpful, but it basically was my way of.

Kind of talking to my imaginary internet friends and sharing what I was going through. so I did that for a season and then I moved to Mexico and then life changed and I started getting into different things and it became less of a priority. and I started like pouring into my coaching and I started the Instagram for that and this, that, and the third.

So what I've really noticed is like, as you do what? Anything, if you, as you do anything more and more, you have more experience and more practice and more capacity, but then simultaneously as you do the emotional work. So basically in the last year and a half, I did a really intense trauma healing program and that process itself like released a lot of fear and a lot of like stuck trauma in my body.

So now the same things that would've kept me from posting on LinkedIn for instance, which was like, One of those mountains in my mind, because I was like, LinkedIn is where the serious business people are, and I'm just a fun YouTube gal, So I had all these limiting beliefs around that. Now that's really easy for me.

So I think part of it is, How much capacity do you have  inside of you, but also externally to do all these different things? Because there's some people who, yeah, they juggle 15 projects at once, but they have the capacity for it and it doesn't burn them out. Where me from a few years ago, just having a YouTube and Instagram, I was like, I'm overwhelmed.

I can't do a video every week. I gotta go to a video every two weeks. So it really does just change as you grow as an artist.

It reminds me of when people are always asking health professionals or, what do you call it, personal trainers and stuff, and they're like, what time is the best time to exercise? Is it before breakfast? Is it after? Is it night? Nighttime? And they're like, it's the time that you will do it. Just do it.

That's the number one thing. And it is very similar to how we use. Digital media, like if you're gonna do it, great, if you cannot, if it's just too much for you, don't do a podcast or don't post on LinkedIn. But if it's fun and you will actually be on Instagram or on YouTube, go for that.

Exactly, and it reminds me of a great quote I heard, and it stayed with me ever since. and it's this idea that if you have to step out of alignment to get something, you're gonna have to stay out of alignment to keep it. So if you're like, okay, let me work on this podcast and then I'll get X, Y, or Z, it's that X, Y, or Z is gonna mean that you have to keep making that podcast.

So if you can't even do it now, it's gonna be much harder to do it then. And so yeah, just. I think the emphasis is really just to make sure you enjoy the process and you genuinely, and that's enough for you. 'cause if it isn't, then anything you get as a reward, you won't be able to sustain it.

you touched on this briefly when you said, like when you were thinking of media, sometimes you don't see yourself, but you still go to media as a form of escape or expressionism. What I'm seeing. Interviewing people who are influencers and just reaching out and researching it more and more is the diversity.

And who has a following that you don't see in more traditional media, be it television, film, or even streaming stuff. What has been your experience and why do you think it's Popular that a more diverse group, non-binary or different ethnicities, all sorts of stuff get so popular.

I really appreciate you naming that because as someone who did love movies and TV growing up, I always wanted to be a part of movies and TV and traditional media, and I still want that, but I just assumed because of what I saw that I. It's already hard, even if you're just like a white male, it's already pretty hard.

And I thought it would be, doubly hard for me. And so I thought the only way I could even have a chance of getting into traditional media would be through creating my own platform. So that was always in the back of my mind. And there were creators like Donald Glover and of course Issa Ray, who affirmed yes, like it may take you 15, 20 years, but if you like stick to it and you create your own thing and you're passionate and you're consistent and authentic.

Eventually you can find your way into these more traditional ways, of being seen. And I think what's really beautiful about creating online is that the gates to entry are basically, they don't exist. if you have an internet connection and if you have technology, you have a phone or camera, whatever, you can be putting yourself out there.

And then instead of sort of these men, white men in suits deciding what people are gonna watch and the actual audience gets to see. I think what's a little bit tricky is like, there is still a level of what gets, there's still a level of censorship in terms of which, like opinions get seen and things like that.

I think TikTok is really interesting 'cause I think there was some stuff around, even the homes of the people had to look a certain way. So there's certain things that are still happening, but I think it's just a small fract, or it's just way less than it used to be, which is really beautiful and.

I remember I listened to an interview with Gabrielle Union and she talked about working on, bring it on the Dance Cheerleader movie and how test audiences loved all the stuff involving like the black dance team. So much so that they like created fake scenes to put in the trailer that wasn't actually in the movie because people responded so well.

And then what she's experienced as an actress is that, studios have tried to really low ball her and essentially minimize her impact and her popularity. But having an online platform has really shown like, no, no, no. I am popular. People really do like me and so pay me what I'm worth. So it's, I think it's really still evolving and it's.

It's changed so much just in the last 15, 20 years, and I feel like every year it changes more and I'm really excited to see what happens as a result of the strike. And I think it's so beautiful that the actors and the writers are in solidarity and they're really standing up for their own rights because I.

That is the way that you make sure stories get told and authentic stories get told is by saying, I'm willing to put my livelihood on the line to make sure this happens. And it's I'm not in traditional media yet in that way, but I know their actions are gonna support me if slash when. I eventually do get

Yeah. this might, You might not be able to talk about it, but when we spoke in person a, a year or two ago, we were connected because we had traveled with remote year and you had shared that it was a privately funded reality series where it was about nomads in Mexico and you didn't really know what was gonna come of it.

Is there any updates and how was it working in the reality world sphere?

So just to clarify, remote year is a travel program that you know, folks can sign up for and do six month, year long week, treats all this kinds of stuff. Through that network, I met somebody who was producing a reality show about digital nomads, and so I got to do like this two week experience hanging out in like Mexico and just being real messy in pools and just all the stuff that you think happens on reality shows.

I was living that best life. And it is, it's different when you're in it, I must say. no updates on that. I haven't heard of anything. I think one thing that's interesting is, I. It's just like anything creative where you have an idea of what it's like before you go into it and then you actually go into it and you realize what it is.

Because I don't think the folks  who were creating that show had any existing relationships with producers or like any of these streaming platforms. They were very much that entrepreneurial, let's just make a show. let's just hire a director. You know, that kind of energy and.

All of us who signed up are like,   yeah. You know, so I, I think maybe they may have underestimated all of the work that goes into taking something from idea to reality, especially in a reality television market that is super saturated and that you, I feel like you really need a hook that's so interesting in order to  have it be online.

and I don't know  If our hook was enough, given that you have reality shows where it's meet this person in a box and get married in a month, like that's insane. I'm gonna watch every season of that, 

so wild how people got so into that show, and I would watch it and I'm like, I don't get it, but either way. But I also like the Kardashians and people think I'm crazy. Yeah. There's a little, there's an audience

something for everyone. Exactly. I wanna defend Love is blind. Now the reason why I found it compelling, especially in the beginning, is that you are used to reality shows being fake. Like you just assume it's fake. And so for me it was like, wait, are you for real?

Gonna marry this first? Like, marriage is not a joke, it's your marriage.  It was a shock of you're really going to, and I'm like, that's your mama. That's your family. You're gonna bring your mama to a fake wedding. It just shocked me. And then they, some of those people actually married, still married.

So yeah, so that's why I personally was very compelled by it.

is there anything that we have not touched on that you'd like to, speak on about being. An online creator and how this is a new form of screen-based media.

I think one thing I'm realizing as I do it, and that is the way life is, you can't learn it any other way, is you know, there are a lot of downsides to being an online creator and before you experience them yourself, it is easy to write them off and subtle things like meeting people like. It is a default that when you meet a stranger, you don't know them and they don't know you.

So you get to make a first impression. And I just had the experience why I met someone thinking that was the dynamic and they mentioned later I. By the way, I heard you on this other podcast, did a bunch of research into you, followed you on social media. So I actually already know you and I'm like, oh.

Which is I'm not fake, so it's fine. Like I'm not, like I wasn't putting on an act so that it was, I was like a different person. But that's like a pretty subtle thing. oh, I actually, I. Like you, there's this power imbalance a little bit because you already actually know a lot more about me and some really personal things that I've chosen to share online.

And then of course, as a woman and as a black woman, there are levels of just like basic safety that,

that's good.

I. I'm just like, just starting to see like, hmm, I might need to be more careful about this. I was watching an interview with, some  large streamers and online creators, and one person mentioned, one was like a strict, a Twitch streamer, and she mentioned there's this thing called swatting where people will call the SWAT team on your house while you are live streaming.

And I'm like, what? Like just there's like a different world. And I'm like, and so I'm

they do it as a prank or,

Yeah. But then it's real SWAT people out there with the guns drawn and I'm like, whoa. And then in general, like the biggest creators from, when I was younger, I. A lot of them, they talk about how they had incredible anxiety and stress and depression.

And so when they were at the height of their external success, it was when they were at the like lows of their inner mental health. And I'm just like, and that seems to be like super consistent. So I'm like actively looking for examples of people who are doing very well professionally and creatively and are also like, and I'm healthy and I'm okay.

But I wonder if it's like intrinsic, like if you are setting yourself up to. Want and search and seek for a lot of external validation. Does that inherently point to something in you where like you feel like you're not enough and I'm, I hope that's not true, but part of me is wondering, 

and also just those safety measures. Like I've never heard that the swatting, prank. I have heard of where they are live somewhere and the guy will, a stalker or somebody who just feels like they know you shows up at that place. So they are a little bit more cautious, security wise, safety wise.

So it's all sort of an experiment and like you said, like this is the first time we really are able to share so much of ourselves to such a public. To such a wider audience. We don't really know what it is to have a emotional stability, mental capabilities, and safety protocols. So it's a bit of an experiment and I'm so glad that we're talking to people who do this for a living, because it's only growing and there are pros and there are cons to all of this.

So thank you so much for coming on. What would you like to say last words?

Last thing I was gonna say is, they talk, there's a lot of talk about how a lot of young people want to be influencers as their job. And I think what's really interesting is that I think it will just, I think in the same way that kind of, everyone has a, not everyone has an Instagram, but it's pretty common to have an Instagram.

I think it'll just shift in that way where like in a couple of years, oh yeah, my YouTube channel, and like that becomes just like a normal thing that everyone has. So there will always be  this. Expansion of what's normal, and then there'll always be like a much smaller percentage of people who  take it very seriously and turn that into their career.

But I feel like some of the panic around, social media is just based on a lot of fear and a lot of it being new and like every medium from television to movies to talkies to the radio. there's always something new. There's always a little bit of fear. We figure it out and then it gets disrupted and the cycle continues.

thank you so much again, Chidi. do you wanna just share where people can find you or any resources that you wanted to share?

Sure. So on my YouTube, I'm at Chidi, c h i m d i. My coaching is, on Instagram. You can do coaching by Chidi.  my podcast is called Voice Notes from Your Friend, and my website is chidi hazy.com. So you can just see all of that on my website.

Thank you so much.

Thank you for having me. This was so fun.