Welcome everyone to Media and Monuments podcast. I am your host, Tara Jabbari.  today we are talking all about a different kind of screen-based media, social media, and the job of influencer. today I have two guests. Gabby Marcellus is a digital nomad influencer. She has over 368,000 followers on TikTok and works with brands like remote year and Ashley McDonough is also travel influencer and travel business owner.

She created Melanin on the Map, a global app dedicated to travelers of color. Welcome ladies. There's so much to talk about. I'm very excited for this

Yes,

since you guys are both travel influencers. can you share where you're recording at the time of this now, you guys are?

Yes, I'm in la.

Gabby.

I'm currently, yeah, I'm currently in Toronto,

Nice. And I'm in Chicago, Illinois. so basically, Gabby and I met actually while I was doing remote year in Senegal earlier in 2023, and Remote year, which is a company where people who can work remotely, travel the world in a new country each month of the year. But is my understanding, you went there to work for remote year and kind of show what our lives were like in Dakar, and stuff.

Right.

Yeah. Yeah, it was really cool. It was basically I got hired to make content, film, specific amounts of videos, take  certain amounts of pictures and everything, just to highlight the experiences that we have and what remote years really like as, somebody who travels with them. So it was really cool opportunity.

And Ashley, our other co-hosts, relative Candace, her sister knows you. I think you both went to Howard University.

Yes, I am a Howard grad. 

Wonderful. Yes. So DC is definitely being represented, since this is the Women in Film and video of Washington DC's podcast. But one thing that we've been thinking of doing for a while now, and we did it in our last season, which is to talk to people who are influencers, basically. Traditionally you think of the big screen, the movie theater, and then there were television shows and things like that.

But now with the act of social media and how video heavy it has become, the job description or a new job of influencer, has become more and more popular. For better or for worse, we're gonna discuss that actually.  so we wanted to. To give that a bit of  attention because it's not going anywhere, I think.

so first, each of you were, you always knew that you wanted to be involved in media in some capacity. 

I know for me specifically, I definitely always wanted to be involved in it. I was a theater major and It's just something I've always been interested in. I thought it was always something that was, seemed really fun and unconventional. So for me, yes.

Yes, same for me. So from a young age, I've always loved media and television and journalism. I actually studied journalism and production in Howard,  during my university. So I have been upset for a very long time. And as I grew older and as I entered my career, that's when I transitioned into the media world more into  entrepreneurship.

yeah.

 I'm wondering when you guys were, I. Like I do wanna be in media. Did you always know you wanted to be in front of the camera? Were you always, you, Gabby, you said you were a theater major, was it? Or you took at least theater classes and stuff, Ashley, or, because also influencing one of my questions is what kind of tools do you use?

Because you have to film it, you have to edit it, you have to write it sometimes. So you're playing more than just. The actor in front of the screen kind of thing. So how involved did you always want to be and how did you end up becoming a travel influencer?

So for me, as far as what tools you, you said two questions. What tools do I use and

And how did you get start?  how did you really get started and you're like, oh, this is a way that I can make money and this is a way to be in the entertainment industry or in the media industry.

Right. So for me, I'm first generation American, so both of my parents are from the Caribbean. So traveling has always been a part of my life since I was a very young girl, so fast forward throughout the years, I Looked at travel and kind of figured out a way that, how can I make a career out of this?

I launched Melanin on the map just because I really wanted to build a community of people that looked like me, that love to travel, that they were really passionate about it, and it was really just looking at it from an entrepreneur standpoint of, okay, how do I. Take this from my travel passion to an actual paycheck.

Like how do I make money from this? Like, where is that? So that's how I got started. And then I did the work on like creating an app and building a brand and gaining a following and a community and all those foundation steps. But it was more so just the passion and just the urge, 

And Gabby, how did you get started into becoming a travel influencer?

Yeah. So, I started influencing prior to traveling. I started in. Influencing back in 2021. and then I just started traveling while I was still making talks. And so that's what happened for me was I just decided I didn't wanna live like a normal nine to five job. I didn't wanna live in New York City anymore.

So I decided to do remote year. I found remote year and I just started traveling with them and I just document my travels as I go and that's just how it happened for me.

It's an interesting,

And to just back off of that, I think a lot of the times people think that you have to go to school for it or all of that. It was really just a organic thing, Like she loved travel. I love travel. It just we took pictures and then it became whatever it became, but it was really just it was just a passion, 

that was one thing is how do you find your niche? There's all sorts of different influencers. You have mommy influencers, you have, fitness influencers, and you guys concentrated on travel. So was it from just the idea of I love to travel. Why can't I get paid to do it?

kinda for me, my niche and what I always tell people is that in most cases, you are the brand. Like you are the niche. for me, I dedicate my brand and platform to black travelers. I'm a black traveler, so it wasn't about, Really trying to figure out who to cater to. Cuz I think sometimes in most cases you are the niche.

You know, moms cater to moms and singles, cater to other singles. So I think it's just really digging deeper of who am I and what do I want to portray to my people?

Yeah, I'll say my niche was, very different before I started traveling, and now I kind of just think that my niche is just lifestyle, like it's just sharing my life. It's just oh, here, get ready with me. Like before I go to this art gallery in Canada where I'm visiting and stuff like that.

And so it's just my day-to-day, this is what I'm doing. Like here's a vlog of my day. so I would say that my niche is just like me and I wouldn't say that it's a specific thing anymore because I don't just, I don't share travel tips.  I'm bad at that. So it's just like my niche when it comes to travel and influencing is really just Hey, this is what I've done today and this is the cool stuff that I've gotten to do while I explore.

And so, finding a niche can be really hard, but I don't think you have to necessarily niche down. Unless you really are passionate about that.

so now let's, go back to the original question of, tools. when you think of a film, you're like, okay, I need a camera, I need an editing, I need lighting. What do you guys need? And do you have any favorites that you recommend for people?

yeah, I say that I travel with a tripod. Oh, I wish I had it over here with me right now, but I travel with a tripod. I got it off Amazon. It's one of my best. Friends. It's how I film most of my videos and it's how I take a lot of my pictures and it folds up and it turns up into the size of a burrito basically.

And it's great. I love that. And that's just really good for helping you take pictures, helping you film videos, especially if you don't wanna hold your camera.  I'm a talker, so most of my tos either are filmed in cap cut, filmed and edited in cap cut or in the TikTok app themselves. I don't know if anybody else does that, but that TikTok app makes editing really easily and I think is really beginner friendly.

and that's what I do. I just use my phone and I just use my tripod and cap cut.

What about lighting and stuff like that? Oh, go ahead.

Oh, yeah, for lighting, I do have a little selfie camera. It's just a little selfie light that clips onto your phone. I got off Amazon for 1999, and I use that since I travel. If I'm home, I use a ring light, but I just can't afford to travel with that much and have it break up that much space.

So it's just a little clip on light to the top of my camera and a tripod, and that helps me a lot.

And Ashley, you were saying.

I'm the same. Yeah. I think it doesn't have to be so involved like tripod phone. I think really it's just mainly the editing I think is the most important part of all of it. It's if you have an editor, I have an editor. if you, it depends on what you. What your thing is, I'm not a talker.

I'm more of an Instagram girl, so creating reels, creating viral content, just like really showcasing something. I think the good thing about social media is you can make anything look good as long as it's edited correctly and aesthetically pleasing, and I think that's really the key.

But as far as the actual tools, love a tripod. Love my phone.

Yeah,  I'm a trained editor, and I hate. Stupid Instagram and tech like editing in the app cuz they want you to, and I'm like, I can't fade, I can't fade out and I can't, no, this is not okay and all that. But people who are kind of self-taught, and that was my other question because you guys were like, oh, people think you need to go to school for this stuff.

This is a relatively new profession and new form of screen-based media. Did you guys, were you self-taught. Or how did you learn how to, you're like, okay, let me figure out how to edit this so that it's a better transition and things.

Yeah, for me, I did go to school for journalism production, so technically I wasn't self-taught. You I. Worked at media companies. I've worked at Essence and Billboard and all of these companies where I learned how to edit, how to create bio content, social media marketing. So I was professionally trained, and of course I went to Harvard University.

However, those skills were transferable into my entrepreneurial journey, but technically I was professionally

they train you specifically with the mobile app and applications for that?

No. Oh, no. None of that. None of that. Because I didn't go to business school. a lot of people think you have to go to business school to launch a business. I didn't go to business school. my degree is in journalism and production, and then I have a business. So they did teach me more so on the marketing and social media side of things.

But then I had to teach myself more on the entrepreneurial part of it.

Yeah. Gabby, do you have anything to add about being self-taught?

Yeah, I learned how to edit. I didn't know when I first started TikTok, I didn't even know how to make a TikTok. I didn't know how to edit it. I didn't know how to do anything. And so I'm completely self-taught in like how to edit videos. That's why mine are not that. Intricate I think one thing to know too is like they don't have to be anything like super edited, super crazy.

Like a lot of my videos that go viral are just me talking to my screen for three minutes. I'm completely self-taught. I learned all how to do it. I'm still learning every single day. So I think it's something that you can definitely just do self-taught too, which is really cool.

And you'll be surprised, like the viral content is the simple content. Like the best content that goes viral for me always is just like regular, just like words on screen, nothing exciting, just a nice little song in the background. And those are the ones that really go viral. So it doesn't have to be super complex with all these pans and fade ins, and it doesn't have to be all that.

It sounds like this, and now we're getting into the psychology of how people go viral and how people can get attention on social media. Authenticity or just being yourself tends to for, people are like, I really like this person because of the funniest videos. the memes and things like that happen from people just being silly and just being themselves.

 I always say like,  Social media sometimes can feel like a diary, but a diary is never meant to be public. So you need to be careful. And that's one of my questions is security. Any safety tips, particularly for women? I, I've spoken to a few influencers who say they, for instance, will post after they've been to a certain location.

things like that. So one is the idea of. What makes you think, has drawn people to look at social media and to influencers as a new form of media and also, safety tips that you recommend that you practice and you recommend others to do it. Ashley, you wanna go first?

as far as why do I think people are drawn to influencers as a new form of media? I think it is that relatability, people wanna feel that connection and they wanna feel like they know you, like they're your friend type of thing because of where you go or what you can recommend. So I think it's like a friend.

It's, you're like little. Bestie, kind of your travel bestie. So I think that's what really draws people to them, just their lifestyle. And in addition to that, I think it also shows them that even they, if they're not traveling themselves, they also feel like they're on the trip with them.

You know, they're in Aruba, they're in Jamaica, and they're getting the day to day. Gabby said it'll be like a get ready with me. To go see this museum and now they're there along the journey. So I think that's really why people plug in because you're learning, but you're also, it's an experience altogether.

So that's your first question. And Gabby, you wanna touch on that before we get to the.

Yeah, sure. I think that social media, it's like reality tv, but you just have closer access to it, I don't know personally, I loved growing up with reality tv, but you only get what they like, what you only get so many months of the year and you only get so many episodes per season where it's like with. People on TikTok, you are getting 3, 4, 5 videos from them a day. You're figuring out like what their favorite candy is. Oh, like they're wanting to buy this new car, are they gonna get it? And you're just being able to follow along with these stories and see their life grow in a way that like you just have won a lot of access, which is a very interesting thing.

And two, I think then it gives you a. An outlet to focus on other people's lives and not your own. And it's like a way to escape reality in a way. And it's like watching your favorite TV show or something, but now it's like somebody's life and you get invested in it like they're your friends and it's creates this weird parasocial relationship that I think really. It draws people in. I know that I've been guilty for it and stuff like that. Like it, it's just, it's really interesting cuz like you could say, like Ashley was saying, oh, say we're going to this museum now. I'm at this museum with you, and it's I'm going with my friend. It's just a very interesting relationship that you start to develop.

And also I think it's cute. there are parts that are really like intrusive, but there are parts that are so cute. It's like you get to celebrate milestones with them. oh my God, you had a baby? Oh my God, she moved across the country. Like it's really cute cuz you do feel like you're a part of their journey and it's, yeah, I've been guilty of it too.

Like with

Yeah.

or I feel like they're my friends.

Yep. Especially like when you see them get engaged and stuff and you're like, oh my gosh, like it's crazy.

Last year.

Yeah.

 that's also, going back to like a safety thing. How much of yourself do you want to share or do you feel safe to share?

Because it's small things. and also everyone has an unsolicited opinion. And I don't know how you guys do it. Cuz if I was like, if I wore green and they're like, green is not her color. She looks bad. It's washing her out. I don't know how you guys handle those comments and stuff.

So, going back to the safety question, but also I am curious on you guys.  you've admitted that you get invested in other influencers, and their stories  but.  how much of yourself do you share and all that stuff.



Okay. so for me, safety, I used to have a PO box because people would wanna send me things. It was like this weird thing that people are doing at TikTok at the time. And so I had a PO box, but I had it like, The town over or like I was told to get it, like the town over or something so that people can't figure out like how close your PO box is to where you live and

Oh, that is an interesting one. Yeah.

yeah, it's just so that cuz. my PO box was like a 10 minute walk from where I lived and I ta if I talked about walking to the closest Mexican place, that was my favorite place to eat Mexican food. And you can like easily, cuz if people are really following your story and it's oh, let's go and take a walk and can see me walking outside my apartment complex and then they like, do you know what I mean?

It's very easy for them to figure out  where I could be. So I guess if you ever open a PO box, do it like the town over. also just not sharing. I think for me, where I would get myself in trouble was I would be like walking outta my apartment complex and you can see a number or I would be like walking past, certain restaurants and like just different. Landmarks that were very noticeable. Like I would be walking past 'em and I would be talking about how I'm like walking up to my house and doing stuff like that. And that could be a safety concern, and just being more cognizant of that. I don't know. I think I'm a chronic oversharer online, so people know too much about my life all of the time. so safety has definitely been something I have to be careful about. It's not oversharing too much information, just having boundaries in that sense.

Yeah. I think boundaries is definitely key, and that's why I always consider myself a businesswoman that has influence, not an influencer, because of just that. like I know I have a lot of influence online, I know I have a large community. People are looking at where you're going and traveling and all that.

But I am not an oversharer, like I'm relatively a private person. That's why I also created two separate brands. So I have my brand and then I have my business brand. So the business brand is where all the sharing and all the stuff is happening where I can travel and post when I want to and do all of that because I think it is a safety thing.

But people are very invested, And I think it just becomes a lot sometimes, like the questions they ask and. It's a lot, so sometimes you do have to set those boundaries and I think. For me, just being safe. Like I don't post when I'm currently there. Of course, I am very aware of my surroundings, what's in the videos and the pictures and things like that.

like if people tag me in things I'm very cognizant of. So it's just being cautious because, not everyone wishes you well. And when you're online you don't know. Like people seem like they're. they have good intent, but you never really know. So I think it's just protecting yourself at all costs across the board.

But social media has a lot of pros and cons, so you know, you take the

 melanin on the map. It has over 55,000 followers on Instagram. you both have quite a lot, and that also goes back to the different platforms. It used to be like YouTube, then it was Twitter, then Instagram grew, and now TikTok.

 were you experimenting with different platforms until you guys, you, Ashley, you said you were more of an Instagrammer, Gabby, you said you're more of a TikTok, or did you experiment to all the different platforms until you found which one you really liked?

For me, I always knew I wanted to grow on Instagram. Because I knew I wanted to really focus on that form of storytelling, and I knew my audience was much younger, so I didn't wanna go on like Facebook or things. And then TikTok is still relatively new in comparison to like Twitter and Instagram, but I knew where my audience was and I knew just in the beginning stages of how they were receiving it, that I can really grow here.

So it was really intentional about growing on Instagram only. Now it looks like it's easier to grow on TikTok. Now things have changed, at the time,

Yeah, I'll say I've always wanted to have a YouTube. I've always wanted to, to just. Have a video diary, if you will. it's always something that I've always wanted to have since I was a kid, but I never really knew how to get there and TikTok just made it more accessible for me. yeah, I started my TikTok back in 2021 and that was really the only one that I was just like, yeah, this is what I want to do.

Cuz I love video, I love talking, I love to give advice and my 2 cents. And so TikTok for me was just the perfect one. I would love to get into YouTube, but it's just not as convenient. As TikTok,

Yeah. And it's harder to grow on YouTube. Yeah.

Yeah.



Do you think that this form of media is replacing traditional media? Can it replace it?  you guys always wanted to be in media and entertainment,



you found it in this form in social media. Some people are worried that it, no one's gonna go to the movies, no one's gonna want the written narrative of a, traditional two hour film or something like that.

Do you think it's social media is replacing it?

I think being a former journalist and producer, I think that certain forms of media will forever just be the blueprint and that they'll always have their audience, people, there are people who prefer to read a book than listen to an audible. and those people will always exist, so I think they'll always have their own fan base.

I do think social media is the future for sure. I think it's going into a whole new direction, but I think every outlet in the media space will always have their own fan base.

Do you wanna add anything?

Yeah, I think that's very well put. Yeah, I was just gonna say, I think that's well put. I definitely agree with that. I don't really see it. Traditional media going out of style anytime soon.

Like forever. Like I think even look at, because you said like people don't go to the movies anymore, but we have Netflix, Hulu, all of these things, but people who love to sit down and order popcorn and watch a movie are still there. You know what I mean? So I think people always find their audience.

you're right, classic TV shows like friends, Or Golden Girls.

I'm starting to watch, the Bob Newhart show and then Newhart from the seventies and the eighties. And I remember every time they're like, oh, we have to go tell this person. And you're like, just get your cell phone. Wait, this is 1981. So kind thing, but there's still a niche. Like we're still watching things.

It's just on our timeline. We can watch it on Amazon or we can watch it on Netflix. But social media. so just a couple more questions, but, do you guys ever feel like people do not take you seriously for what you do? I think this is one of the worries that we had and that's why we wanted to have this conversation.

This is a new form of media. It's not going anywhere. but yeah. 

I think, I know, I guess I'll start, like I, we've talked about I'm an overshare, I'm a chronic overshare online. I cry online. I'm just very honest, very open, very much myself. and so I get a lot of really horrible comments about oh, I wonder what her father's Like stuff like that. yeah, terrible mean, and like I got my TikTok falling based off talking about my ex-fiance and stuff like that.

And so it's just like I have people being like, oh, no wonder like he left and all this stuff so mean. is so mean, but it's also just like having to understand that like you guys are having a perception based off of a like 32nd snippet of my life that you're seeing. And I have to understand that  what you are perceiving and the reality of who I am I know are two very different things and I have to have such a strong sense of self to understand that and. Yeah, I feel like I went off on a tangent there. Sorry. But but yeah, so what was the question? Because I just

It was like when people don't take you seriously, you're like, oh, you're an influencer. That good luck. How? Yeah.

So when people, yeah, so people don't take me seriously because of what I talk about online. As I would say, because of what I talk about online, they don't take me seriously. And it gets scary when they meet you in person in real life because it's like my whole TikTok persona is not exactly

Who?

my real life persona, if that makes sense.

So I feel like with people see my TikTok, they won't take me seriously as a person

the difference in that, if

But there's so many layers of you and they don't get that. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, definitely. 

Yeah, same. I can definitely agree. I think in the early stages of launching my business, that's when people didn't take me serious. It's kinda like, well, what do you do? Like you don't have a job. Like it's kinda so confusing and at the beginning it's hard to explain because you don't have the proof.

But I think now, once they can Google and do all that stuff, I think they definitely take me serious now. But in the early stages of launching anything, it's always what? Oh, that's a cute little, oh, you're a what? But I think just the term influencer definitely gets a bad rep across the board.

So I think you just have to prove yourself with receipts of what you do and you know what you've built, and just just stay committed to that.

 one of my last questions is, can you share an example of how you've seen that you are an influence for people? Have you gotten comments or dms where people are like, I got my passport and I'm going to Aruba, and you're like, nice, go to this thing kind of thing.

yes, for sure.  I see it when I scroll. I see it in my dms and people are just like, oh my God, I launched my travel business because of you. Because I am in. The travel business space, We have an agency, we have a team of over 600 agents, so we have people on board showing them how to make money in travel.

So definitely just showing, just seeing that, but then seeing how they're building out their own individual brands, like they would mimic melanoma on the map at times and The posts that we do, the trips that we take, and I'm flattered because it's just wow. Like we can all win and we can all travel and all of, there's so much opportunity for all of us.

So I love it and I definitely see it.

Gabby.

Yeah. I actually had one of my friends. Decide to do a full road trip through like the US because of remote working. Her, company wouldn't let her travel outside of the country, but she's able to work from anywhere in the US So she decided to put all of her stuff in storage and just travel through the US because of what I'm doing.

And just fully became a nomad too. So it's been really cool to just see people that I know be touched from it and just have other people tell me that because I'm traveling and I'm going out and doing all of these things that they want to too, and they're inspired by it. yeah, I've definitely had some people sign up for remote year too because of my videos, which has been really amazing because I think it's just like such an amazing opportunity that not a lot of people get, and sometimes people just don't think that they can do it, And just having somebody be there that's just no, look like I can do it. You can do it. we can all do this together. We can all have these really great experiences and. Yeah, and share them together. Like I think that's such a beautiful thing and being able to make other people feel the same way has just been really cool.

Do you guys have any  food for thought or advice for people who are interested maybe to audiences? One is  I'm a storyteller. Maybe I can be the story.  I can be my brand. Do you have any advice for that? And for those who are like, I don't know all these people with their selfies and things like that, it's just too narcissistic for me.

Do you have any advice for those guys too? Because I have a bit of that both like the devil and the angel on the side for me, for both things. So I'm, that's why I wanted to talk to you guys about that. So any advice or food for thought?

the first part, the people who want to like, maybe I could be the brand, maybe I can do this. I would just say, just take the risk. like kind of how I started, how Gabby started. We were just traveling and taking pictures. That was it, like putting yourself out there and whatever comes from it.

But it's really just taking the risk and. If anything, at least take the experience, go on the trip, book the vacation, that part, just do that because that can also teach you a lot of what you could potentially do just going on that trip. So I would say just book the trip and then, let the world decide what you plan to do with it.

Yeah, I'll definitely piggyback off of that and say if it's something that you're interested in doing and interested in starting, just do it. I think usually the only one holding you back is like yourself and the worry about what other people are gonna think about you. And even I still have those days as well, but it's. Do it for you. like if it's something that you really wanna do because it's something you are passionate about, do it for you and just don't give up on, on something that you want. Because I think it can be really rewarding and it can be really fun, and I think it's definitely worth it if you're willing to put the effort in.

And to the ones who don't really, 

yes. And for the ones that, I can't do the selfies, I can't do the thing, whatever. there are so many different ways to be an influencer, like you don't have to necessarily be the face, it doesn't have to be selfies and things. You can build a brand around education, about travel, and you never come on screen, ever.

The entire brand is about travel tips and flight deals, and. it's really dependent on you. it's just really finding what you're passionate about and then finding a way to build something around that and then monetize that if you want to.

I think there are various different ways, and that's the beauty of the influencer world now. There's no one way to do it.

Yeah, I definitely agree with that. I think that there's a lot of different ways that you can be involved if you want to be, like even hosting a podcast, I think that's a really great way to still have an influence and be an influencer in a certain type of way.

but also if it's not something you're interested in and. I don't know. That's also okay. 

Yeah, I.

like everybody is so different and I feel like it is so different to be somebody that's out there, like sharing big parts of their lives and sharing so much of their lives that I can see how to some people that could be like so big turnoff.

but that's why we're all different. some people just really like to consume and some people like to create and there's, I don't think there's anything wrong with either one.

Yeah.

 is there anything else you wanted to share that we didn't really touch on that you think is something to consider when. You talk about this new form of media, of influence and social media.

 I think that  when it comes to being an influencer and it comes to sharing your life and everything like that, everybody is different. There's so many different ways to do it. It's not like a one size fits all. different travel influencers share so many different things, and I think that it is just such a cool little realm of social media.

I, I just think it's really fun and I am so glad that we got to talk about it a little

thank you.