The Art of Production Design (Rerun)

Originally released Nov. 12, 2023

Screen-based media by its very nature, relies on visuals. And as stories unfold on set, the art department is key in not only building those sets, but making them look the part for the world being created. In this episode, host Candice Bloch sits down with Betsy Zuck, an experienced Production Designer, Set Decorator, Lead Person, Set Decorator, fabricator, and beyond. They discuss not only those roles and what they mean, but Betsy draws on her experiences working on crews of all types and sizes to shine a light on the workflow and hierarchy of sets, as well as give some great tips and advice for those looking to break into production design.

Check out more of Betsy’s credits at: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm6826143/
Connect with Betsy on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/betsy-zuck-26110718/ 

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Transcript

00:01 - VO

Quiet on the set All together and action. 



00:10 - VO

Welcome to Media Monuments presented by Women in Film Video in Washington DC. Media Monuments features conversations with industry professionals speaking on a range of topics of interest to screen-based media makers. 



00:26 - Candice Bloch (Host)

Welcome to the show. Today, our focus is on art production, a subject near and dear to my heart. I'm your host, candace Block, and I'm joined today by Betsy Zook, a multi-talented production designer, set dresser and beyond. Betsy's film production value draws from a background in theater, opera events, commercials and photo shoots. She holds a BFA in theater education and an MFA in technical theater production. Betsy has designed, painted and created art in the Washington DC area for clients including the Washington National Opera and Microsoft, and she currently works and resides in both Maryland and California, as well as in multitude of states and countries, for her projects. Her credits span all types of genres and formats, from projects such as the horror film A Cursed, the action film Bandit, history, project, titans, the Rise of Hollywood and the reality TV show the Real Dirty Dancing. She has worked on both indie features and big name films alike, including the upcoming feature Gunner starring Luke Hemsworth and Morgan Freeman. 



01:21

Welcome to the show, betsy. Thanks, candace. So full disclosure for our listeners. Betsy and I have actually been friends for several years and I've had the pleasure of working with her on some creative art projects and productions before, but she is the professional who has made this her career, while I only dabble from time to time. So I'm excited to learn even more about her experiences along with our listeners. Starting off with how did you get into production and specifically art production? 



01:48 - Betsy Zuck (Guest)

Yes, I got into production in around 2014 and I came from, as you said, a background of opera and theater. One of the things I found in those areas was that I like being in different places and not just theater. What I started to gravitate towards were pieces of opera that were held not only in the opera space but also out in the community. So there's a certain, there's a production value that comes with not being in a space and having the set built every time. That's nothing to say against. You know sound studios, which are super cool in film, but I just noticed that I really liked being in the actual locations when filming. 



02:35 - Candice Bloch (Host)

That's so cool. How did you first start getting work? Did you look for art PA jobs on forums or anything like that? Or how did you first get going? Or in transition from theater to more screen-based media? 



02:49 - Betsy Zuck (Guest)

Yeah, actually I was fortunate enough to meet my husband who has a small film company in DC called DC Dogs, and they were into making smaller films. I started doing 48s and different projects in the DC area small projects. He and I did a full-length feature right after we got married and it was a road-trip film. It's called, meant to be broken. You can watch it on Amazon and that really kind of got me on my way. I made some contacts through that project who helped get me to my next job and then it kind of went from there. 



03:27 - Candice Bloch (Host)

So yeah, is that how you go from gig to gig? Is it kind of a word-of-mouth thing or like how do you get your next job? 



03:34 - Betsy Zuck (Guest)

Yes, it has been a very much word-of-mouth thing and you never know when and where that word-of-mouth is going to happen. So it's good to make as many contacts as you can in different places, in different areas, and I'm always on. You know. It's about brand management and follow-through and making sure your clients and the teams that I work with are happy. 



03:57 - Candice Bloch (Host)

Yeah, we see that a lot with this industry. It's kind of you know you prove yourself on a project and then you work with people again and again when you all get along and have a good working relationship. Do you find that your background in art and like fine art has been a really solid foundation for the type of work that you do now? 



04:15 - Betsy Zuck (Guest)

Definitely I really like seeing where would I have fine arts wise? And it's actually just to say most of my art has been done through theater. I do do some personal art, but a lot of my work has been done in theater and events and opera. So I find being able to work with different people, being able to manage different people, my painting skills come up sometimes being able to deploy those. It's just all of those areas crossover from one to the other. 



04:47 - Candice Bloch (Host)

So definitely, to answer your question, I know that there's that sort of visual aesthetic thing, but can you talk about how important it is to maybe have at least a background or knowledge of construction or engineering for things like in this world where you might need to be building sets? I know there's the aesthetic side, but then there's also that sort of technical building side. So do you think it's good to have an understanding of both, or can you kind of specialize in one and put together a good team? 



05:13 - Betsy Zuck (Guest)

I think a good team is definitely necessary. I have taken static engineering courses, I've seen a lot of sets, I've done a lot of drawings for sets, so I feel like I have a fairly comprehensive knowledge of what structurally is necessary for things and when things would feel unsafe. Safety is my first priority all the time. It doesn't matter if it's something so small as lighting a candle on set or people dancing on something. I'm just really into safety first. 



05:47 - Candice Bloch (Host)

You've worked in a variety of roles in art production. Can you tell us a little bit of some of the main differences between, say, like, a production designer and an art director or a set decorator, and then also what the hierarchy of those roles is? 



06:02 - Betsy Zuck (Guest)

Yeah, it's really important to know the distinction between these. Also, it can be different from production to production. So if you're talking about hierarchy which is a tricky term because it's really about, you know, respect in everyone, knowing that they need one another. But as far as communication is concerned, with the director, with the producers, the production designer is the person who is closest to those roles. So they're the ones who do that sort of out-facing role the most, I would say. And then from there they have the creative vision you know, that kind of overrides things, along with the director, of course, and they collaborate together to create the overall vision and what the production designer brings with them. Their background can shape what their role is. They can choose to delve into one area more than others and obviously they bring with them a certain skill set that informs their design. And then the art director I think of as more like the representative of the production designer's wishes, you know, when the production designer themselves are not there or present, and then they're also keeping track of a lot of important paperwork. They're making things happen. They're really the beginning of that facilitation for the rest of the group, whether it be, you know, making sure that they're settled and comfortable in their housing. I've seen that done by art directors, which really helps with the artistic process of people feel like they're being taken care of and seen after in that way to budgeting and making sure things are staying on budget, dispersing the money for people to use, and they also can make sure just everything is in line artistically. 



07:49

Artistic director it kind of says it in its title and then we talked about under kind of under that as the set decorator also sourcing, facilitating what's going on, having a little bit of the more nitty gritty. So if the production designer says here are some ideas, this is the look that I'm going for, the set decorator takes those ideas and helps make them into something that's more solid and makes those choices. Okay, what kind of lamp does that mean? When he says looks like this, maybe I can make some more artistic choices here that really help his vision or her vision or their version come to life. So that set decorator. 



08:30

And then from there you know there's so many people in between, like Candice it's crazy how big this can get. There's also set designers which are different from construction coordinators, which are different, you know, but generally in a simpler one there's under the set decorator, you know set dressers, who are the ones who practically hands on make things happen when you're dressing a set before the actors go on. And then there's also the props master which lies outside of this, because a prop master is so important in having those conversations with the director too, so they kind of like sidestep sometimes that whole other hierarchy because they just really need to know how people need to hold stuff and what they need to have to make the action happen in a very like physical way, yeah, and that's a great breakdown for people who don't know, and also it's a good reminder that there can be just so many people involved in the process to bring a vision to life and that it's a lot of coordinating. 



09:26 - Candice Bloch (Host)

And yes, you have coordinating with props. Like you said, there's other, I would imagine you know all the different departments coordinate which have you found, and I know it probably varies project to project, but what are some of the other departments that our department tends to be like most closely interacting with? 



09:41 - Betsy Zuck (Guest)

Yes, I do think that grips and electrics for lighting, lighting design is really, really important because they help also to shape the space, and sometimes in ways that you don't necessarily see. So if you have a big window that you love and it's part of the scene, what kind of light is coming through that window? You know how? Is there a big softbox outside of it? Is it blacked out because it's supposed to be nighttime? And are really outside of the scope of, like practicals, the lights that are actually on set and seen in the scene. You know the ones the pretty lights are the ones that are helping shape and mold the space around it. You know, maybe you want it to look like there's trees outside. How do you work with lighting to make it look like there's woods outside of the space and really sell the image of where you are? So lighting is really, really important. Also, you know, just in grips, like helping you hang things and have access to things in a very practical way. 



10:40

You also mentioned costuming, which is definitely important, especially when it comes to like, okay, what are props and what are costumes? You know who's responsible for the bag and who's responsible for what's in the bag. You know if the people in the scene are going into water, that's something to communicate with makeup. Okay. Well, what kind of water? How long are they in it? You know what do we need to do to make all these elements work together? 



11:07 - Candice Bloch (Host)

When does budget come into some of those smaller projects, for example, like immediately? Or do you talk about vision first, or does it just change project to project and then? Have you ever run into where you know there's a good director who just really wants something to happen, but you have to say, like it, just the budget won't allow it to be that way. 



11:24 - Betsy Zuck (Guest)

Yes, I think, talking about things artistically, the vision foremost, first and foremost, and getting in line with, okay, well, what are the broad strokes of what this needs to be to get this story told, you know. And then from there looking at the budget the budget is really important, you know, because that kind of brings things to a practical level, and that's when having specialists on the teams in different areas can really help facilitate, okay, what is possible. Because if you're working with the facade of a building and needs to be built and the director says, well, wouldn't it be neat if it was four stories, and we get back to the construction coordinator and they say, okay, this is what we can do for how much you have, how can we tell the story still effectively in a very practical sense? So, yeah, having people who can help inform what the furthest you can go with your budget is is super helpful. And then being creative and problem solving, you know. 



12:24

So if you run into those places like what you're talking about and you find, okay, I don't have enough money to make this specific thing of reality, like there's nothing in the budget for a real wolf, how can we kind of help to fill that gap without breaking the bank. And that's where you put your heads together and you think, okay, how can we help realize this vision? And sometimes it's really okay. Well, could this be accomplished with something else? You know, do you really need again? It's what tells the story the best, and maybe it's not all the bells and whistles you imagine. Maybe the essence of those bells and whistles is actually wind. 



13:07

I would say that I try really hard not to say I don't have the money for that. If there's any other way I can present the information, then it's not in the budget. Like that's the stand. Okay, well, we can get to that point. But I'm going to make as many suggestions to facilitate before I go to what we can't do, that because there's not enough money, right, like, what a way to bring everybody's artistic, like energy down. Oh, that's great. 



13:38 - Candice Bloch (Host)

I mean, that's a wonderful way to operate, where you're providing some potential solutions rather than saying no. But speaking of that, I'm sure a lot of it over time and with your experience you find maybe are there particular thrift shops or stores where you source certain of these materials that end up as props or set pieces that you've come to love and rely on? 



14:01 - Betsy Zuck (Guest)

Yes, it depends on where I am. That really plays a big role what I have access to. So, for instance, if I'm in Southern Georgia making a film, and it's interesting because there's actually a lot more old stuff that people like thrift and hold on to in different areas and so it makes it a little bit easier because it's not seen as like vintage, it's just somebody's old lamp right. So sometimes in bigger cities you get like a bunch of up charges if you go to the wrong place, but places where like it's vintage and suddenly it's like $20 more, so it's knowing like okay, where are those places? 



14:36

Depending on where I am and also online, there's stuff online and in different cities. 



14:41

There as well, I've found that some people are more responsive, some people are easier to get together with. If you find them online and you're like, hey, can we meet at noon, I'll pick it up with cash, and then you don't hear from them, it's like, okay, well, what's my backup? And I do feel like in some places it's a little bit more of a back and forth and also that just brings up like making local connections with people is really important and kind of trying to stay true to your word as far as how you're communicating with them and because in small places like where it gets around fast, you know you pissed off this person and now suddenly this person doesn't really know what's going on Fast. You know you pissed off this person and now suddenly this person doesn't want to work with you because they talk to them every morning. Or you know there's somebody's friends and you have to be really careful about how you operate and operating with integrity and grace in these situations. 



15:35 - Candice Bloch (Host)

So you travel a lot for your work. It comes with the territory, but you're also based by coastily. You live in California as well as Maryland. How much do you think that has helped you, if at all, having a sort of home base on each coast? 차가, it's definitely helped me. 



15:50 - Betsy Zuck (Guest)

I love being able to drive places, especially in a lot of my jobs. We're on the East Coast, especially early on, so it was great to be able to hop into DC and know that a project was coming up. Sometimes I don't know when they're going to start too, so that's a big part of like okay, well, I could be there waiting for a month, or it could be a week, or it could be a day, you know. Suddenly I get a call like hey, do you happen to be free now? And it's like, oh, okay, fortunately I was in between things, so that works. I have started to enjoy being in California. I'm trying to find more things that are here, because I do like working here. 



16:29 - Candice Bloch (Host)

So, as you mentioned, it is different depending on the budget of the film, and you worked on things like tiny, independent things and smaller projects all the way up to, you know, celebrity driven, larger, bigger productions. So what are some of those major differences that you've seen between the project? Is there more than just sort of the budget and what you're able to do and how much creativity and like freedom you have? 



16:53 - Betsy Zuck (Guest)

Yeah, I think that there are some things that are big differences and then there are some things that are important across the board. For instance, I just finished a small film called by the Grape of God. It was what's called an ultra low budget film. One thing about that is I'm really grateful I was able to work on that because we got an interim agreement. We had a waiver sign so that we could continue with the project, and those were really hard to get right now with the strike going through. So our producers were wanting to go through with that. You know they called and called and called until we were able to get that. So I feel really, I'm really proud of them for going through with that and it was a great experience because that's kind of an indicator of how much support and tenacity they had in helping us get what we needed, helping us feel supported throughout the process. So for an ultra low budget film, that's something that's really special and that they were able to offer, because, you know, the pay wasn't as good. They weren't able to offer us the budget that they wanted to, but they were there. They were like they were just always there, always ready to answer questions, always ready to help us in any way we needed and that, in a sense, made it feel very professional to be taken care of that way. 



18:11

So the bigger films I mean it's amazing to go onto a set and or go into a production and really not have to think much about it yes, in some of the larger things, but to not run up against that budget over and over again, to not have it so constantly on our minds as we're going from the day to day of things, you know that's of course, that's incredible. 



18:39

And to have the support there. You know you don't have to have one or the others. You know you can have people who genuinely care and that support and respect to help you do the best job that you can on your job and you know what on what you're doing. But you can also have a great budget too. It's really up to the people and this is a part I'm learning about is like the line producers and the people and how they're respecting and appreciating what needs to come from the art department and how that fits into how the budget is split up just from the get go. So that's an area that I'm always looking to understand better, because I know everyone is doing the best that they can. At the same time, I'm like where are these decisions coming from? 



19:19 - Candice Bloch (Host)

Yeah, no, definitely To pivot to being on set. There's a lot of, I would imagine, like research and gathering of things and preparation and all that. But for when you're on set itself, what are maybe like a handful of items or things that you like to always have with you to feel like you can tackle things that might come up when you're representing the art department on set? 



19:42 - Betsy Zuck (Guest)

I have, if we're talking about physical things, my multi-tool always with me and generally a set of scissors, things to stick things together. I like to have tie line, I like to have butyl, I like to have double stick tape. I generally have a pouch of things that I carry around with me. It's good to have a tape measure just in case, and it really, as you said, it varies a lot from project to project. 



20:14

What's important and it kind of comes to the surface Like, oh, I really need to have Velcro on me at all times through this production. I really need to have a small pair of scissors and a big pair of scissors. You know which I like to have with me anyway, and at the same time, it's about functionality. So keeping what you definitely need with you and then also having the backup stuff. Okay, I need to have a drill, but it doesn't need to be with me all the time, because part of what I think I bring to the table is dexterity, and so I don't want my movement to be compromised with how much I think I'm going to need being on me. 



20:49 - Candice Bloch (Host)

So just to be silly here, speaking of things on set, I know the answer because I sometimes work in our production. But can you tell our listeners what a C-47 is? 



20:58 - Betsy Zuck (Guest)

Oh yeah, that's a silly question. It's a clothespin, you know it's like come on. 



21:06 - Candice Bloch (Host)

Yeah, but it's one of those things that you know. Sometimes people come to set and someone might ask them for it and they don't know what it is, and you kind of just need to learn some of these terms and slang by being there and doing it. Are there any other terms or on set slang that you've learned over the years that, like the first time, you remember because you didn't quite know what it was and maybe had to look it up? 



21:26 - Betsy Zuck (Guest)

You know that's a good question, because I personally would rather just say things than remember acronyms. I think it's a little bit like yes, you're in the business, good for you, you know. But if you just need to go, say like I have to go to the bathroom and you can't remember what number that is and what letters that is, it's like you just switch to the channel and be like hey, I'm going to be out in the restroom, like I mean, it's like 110. I mean, but when I don't remember them it's a little embarrassing, but I'll just start throwing letters and numbers out until I get, because it's like I don't know. It can be quick and it can be efficient. It can also be a little ridiculous. 



22:09 - Candice Bloch (Host)

Yeah, it's one of those funny things that it's kind of like, yeah, veterans in the industry might throw some terms around, maybe specifically to make the newbies scorm, but yeah, it's, you know, things that you learn with experience. 



22:23 - Betsy Zuck (Guest)

And I do think, just to add to that, one thing is in walkie communication. That's something I'm always working on because I like to be very succinct when it comes to walkies. So, while it's not necessarily acronyms and things like that, it's really important to me to be able to say things quickly and succinctly and be able to give confirmation to having heard something. So those are some things, especially early on, that I'm constantly, you know, reminding myself of and learning as I go. 



22:54 - Candice Bloch (Host)

In addition to things that you've learned or continuing to learn, are there different tips or tricks or good advice you've learned from projects that you now carry forward to subsequent projects over the years. Like any great advice you've gathered? 



23:07 - Betsy Zuck (Guest)

Yes, One thing is it's good to barrel through, it feels satisfying to work, work, work. If I feel like I need a break, I need water, I need food, I need to do that, I need to just take a breath. Chances are there's somebody else who needs that attention too, who needs to do those things, and in doing so and recognizing that, hey, I'm going to take a drink of water, do you need a water? These are some of the humane ways that we can be attentive to one another and in a way that really supports the flow of communication and the artwork, just in those small moments of recognizing, hey, there is also an ebb and flow to this. You can go, go, go, because time is money and all these things, but really there's a point of diminishing returns and it's finding what that point is and recognizing, hey, we need to shift because we're people here. What shifts do we need to make so that we feel that we're being supportive of one another? So that's one of the big things. 



24:14 - Candice Bloch (Host)

Yeah, that's definitely super important, because everyone on a set has really long days that people might not realize, and also with respect to art department stuff. Not only does stuff get built, it also needs to be taken down, and so there's a lot more time than some people might initially think that goes into this type of stuff. What are some of those time commitments that you think people might not understand in terms of hours or maybe even schedule over production that our department is involved in? 



24:44 - Betsy Zuck (Guest)

Yep, there's a couple things. One is because I've been a lead person on a few productions and we didn't talk about lead person. Usually it's called a lead man, but the industry has been shifting more towards lead person. If you look in credits, that's been a parent. Now People are being called lead person instead of lead man. 



25:05

What the lead person does is they are kind of a task master and they're managing people and they're managing the truck and when and how the truck is loaded and when it's put back on and making sure things are kind of kept up in the truck, because that's where you're pulling from. 



25:24

So if you don't know what you're pulling from where and you're on the team, that can be really detrimental for time and your own management. 



25:33

So in being a lead person, that idea of knowing how and when to load the truck, the time that it takes to load and organize a truck and the people who are working on the project and also offloading and loading it back up, those things take a lot of time and the truck kind of becomes like your base, a little bit of your home outside of the production. 



25:58

So that maintenance, the organization, the care that it takes, is really one thing that it needs to be spoken for too, it needs to be represented, rather, on the set. When you're saying, okay, how much time does art need to load in, then you really need to be honest with yourself and about the production and kind of fight for, like, this is the time we need. Yes, we're managing it the best we can. But it's good to say, okay, I'm going to add half an hour to what I think it's going to be, so that when people are like, hey, this need to be done yesterday, you're like, well, this is the time we were given and so we're going to do the best we can to accommodate this, to accommodate what we asked for as well as what the expectations are for us. 



26:45 - Candice Bloch (Host)

Do you have any advice for someone interested in getting into the world and where they maybe should begin? 



26:49 - Betsy Zuck (Guest)

Yes, I think that to get on set first of all is a really good way to get involved. I think if you're if one is a PA, for instance a production assistant, and they have an interest in the art department and seeing if they can work with the art department, okay that's one thing. Well, maybe they don't need a PA, maybe the art department doesn't. But if you're a PA, who's there and helping anyway and can kind of gravitate towards that and people see that your proclivity towards that, not to the detriment of anything else, so move your chairs, do whatever you need to do, but maybe you can move your chairs from the art department, maybe you can be around when they need a second hand, maybe you can volunteer to do those things within that avenue. So that's one thing, I think. Also, just really shining at what you do and whatever walk of life, it is really kind of listening and seeing. For instance, when I was working in Richmond after grad school, I wanted to get on a film. Even then, and to answer your question too, from before, when I was a scenic artist, it was recommended to me that I look into film because there are a lot of scenic artists in film who do amazing things. They said if you really really wanted a challenge, go into film. So I was really trying to get into film at that point, even while I was painting, and I was working for a company that was working on a film my friend, let me know about it, it was my roommate at the time and so I was like, oh yes, I would definitely like to work on that. I got interviewed. You know they're like okay, definitely sounds like it was skill set, and what ended up happening is that that production company also worked in opera. So it was a good thing. But instead of being put on the film, they're like we trust your skill set, we trust you. They put me on the opera. So I became the charge for the operas, even though I so I wasn't working on the film, but I was still doing a really solid job. So it was my. I had to do a solid job in that so that people would think of me when the next thing came up. 



29:10

Same thing I was working with the props master for a few of the projects. He's one of my, my California team that I like to to work so much with, and so he has so many different skill sets. So for him, you know, and me working with him and seeing his skill set, like he made pins for everyone for a rap party, like he pressed his own pins that were for that specific show. So you're like, oh my gosh, you press pins to you Like, you have all these things, you wrap microphones, you press pins, you like, and and just being a really solid presence. And so from that I was able to recommend him to other jobs that I was, I was working on, he was able to recommend me. It's like this mutual appreciation and how much you get to know the people who are on your team in order to to move forward and recommend one another, cause you can say with all certainty like this is a person I was have and even if you know, whatever they're doing, I know they're going to rock at it. 



30:13 - Candice Bloch (Host)

Yeah, no, it sounds like if you just keep practicing and honing your skills and showing what you can do, uh, that even if you're not immediately in that avenue, like in that lane, that you can still prove that you can jump into that lane at some point if that's what you want to do. Um, so that, yeah, that sounds, uh, that's cool. I mean, you hear time and time again, it's just a matter of proving yourself and that you're good to work with and then you get, you know, hired. It's so much word of mouth. One other silly piece of advice that I know that you've personally given me uh, because there are lots of long days on set and you're on your feet a lot and things like that, and it's long days back to back to back. I do specifically remember you mentioning one time that it's it's not a bad idea to change the type of shoes that you're wearing day to day, so your feet get stressed in different ways. 



30:59 - Betsy Zuck (Guest)

Yes, I used to have three or four pairs of shoes that I would migrate between um, because that that was definitely true for me. Um, I have found one pair of shoes that I've I especially like um and and I found that investing in one pair of really good shoes, rather than four different, cheaper pairs of shoes if you can't, if one can, is really helpful. I also found weird side note cause I was trying different, like combat boots and things. I like to find things that are kind of nimble but kind of cool and kind of. You know I like things with a neat aesthetic, but I tried these, um, chunky healed combat boots. They looked really cool with all my outfits. They're protecting my feet Great, it was really good. 



31:45

Except it affected my legs in a really weird way and I didn't make the connection till long after I actually went into like physical therapy, because when I wear chunky heels for my shoes, even if they're like combat boots, it actually travels up my leg and affects my hips. So I was having these odd hip pains and I never had before. And it turns out chunky healed combat boots, as cool as they are, are just not my thing. Like I can't wear those all day and not have effects. So it's it's just kind of paying attention to my body and saying how is this, how could this? My feet, yeah, are like they're so important and you're just clamping on those things, and sometimes you're working on concrete all day, sometimes you're. You know, it's just, it's crazy how much it affects you? 



32:34 - Candice Bloch (Host)

Yeah, it's a very important thing to consider when you're doing a lot of work. What are some of your goals in this field, like, where do you see going next? What's next for you? What are some things you would like to accomplish next? 



32:46 - Betsy Zuck (Guest)

I recently was a production designer on this ultra low budget film that and I really enjoyed that. So part of that exploration for me has been because I started at production design. Then, as I got on to larger movies, I was in you know, the the last managerial roles and then I worked my way back up and I did set decoration on a larger film for the first time as well recently, and I and I really really liked that a lot. So I think being production designer on another film, like a slightly larger film, were kind of moving up in that way and people's approximation and what they talk about making more connections like. The more connections the better. 



33:33

I also really liked working on a music video that I worked on a while back and so I'd love to do more music videos. They're kind of fun and quirky and quick in my opinion, so that would be great. But really I love doing all the different roles. It's kind of fun to mix it up. So it's not just one thing and I'm staying grounded in the choices that I'm making as I am doing different roles that may be. You know how they're related to it. 



34:05 - Candice Bloch (Host)

Well, that's great. I mean, you do great work and there's clearly a lot of great work in your future. So thank you so much for talking with us today about our department type things and letting people know more and getting some advice and some knowledge. If someone wants to learn more about you and your work is there anywhere they can go online. Yes, they can go to LinkedIn. 



34:25 - Betsy Zuck (Guest)

That's probably the best place and find me there. I go by Betsy, but my full name is Elizabeth. Last name is Zuck Z is in zebra, u C K is in kite, so you can find me there on IMDB, where I update what I've been working on most recently, and now you can find me here too. Yeah, Great. 



34:46 - Candice Bloch (Host)

Well, we'll put all that stuff in the show notes, and thanks again so much for talking with us today about art stuff. As an artist myself, I love this work and I've been waiting to get more art department stuff on the show. So thank you so much for enlightening our listeners some more on the amazing world of art production. Thanks for having me, candace. 



35:05 - VO

Thank you for listening to Media and Monuments a service of women in film and video. Please remember to review, rate and subscribe wherever you listen to this podcast. For more information about WIF, please visit our website at wwwwifasenfrancvasenfictororg.