In this episode, Dr. Jonathan Mathis, Senior VP of Education for Policy and Systems Change at City Year, explains how near-peer success coaches can help make schools more equitable and effective for all.
One reason why many low income and minority students do not have a strong pathway to adult success is that too many attend a subset of middle and high schools where a large number of students constantly face the challenges of poverty and discrimination—far more students than there are adults to support them. Shifting that ratio is essential for schools to provide all students pathways to adult success. For City Year, some of the answers lie in a new kind of student support, near-peer success coaches, whose presence can help transform schools to become more equitable and effective.
In this episode, Dr. Jonathan Mathis, Senior VP of Education for Policy and Systems Change at City Year, explains how near-peer success coaches can help make schools more equitable and effective for all.
One reason why many low income and minority students do not have a strong pathway to adult success is that too many attend a subset of middle and high schools where a large number of students constantly face the challenges of poverty and discrimination—far more students than there are adults to support them. Shifting that ratio is essential for schools to provide all students pathways to adult success. For City Year, some of the answers lie in a new kind of student support, near-peer success coaches, whose presence can help transform schools to become more equitable and effective.
Robert (00:01):
Welcome to Designing Education, the Pathways to Adult Success podcast series. I'm Dr. Robert Balfanz, director of the Pathways to Adult Success program and the Everyone Graduates Center at Johns Hopkins University. I'm delighted to have you join us today. This is one of a series of conversations we'll be having with education leaders, thinkers, and practitioners from across the country. In our conversations, we'll talk about what it will take to create an education system that truly empowers all young people and sets them on a pathway to long-term success. In today's episode, I'll be joined by Dr. Jonathan Mathis, Senior Vice President of Education, Policy, and Systems Change at City Year.
Robert (00:43):
One of the fundamental reasons why far too many students, in particular low-income and minority students, do not have a strong pathway to adult success, is that we have segregated and concentrated low-income and minority students in a subset of middle and high schools not designed to provide the learning experience and scale and intensity of supports required in these schools. There are simply too many students who, day in and day out, must face the challenges of poverty and discrimination, and not enough adults to provide the support needed to succeed. Until we shift those ratios, it'll be difficult for these middle and high schools to provide all students pathways to adult success. For Jonathan, some of the answers lie in a new kind of student support, the success coach. We're looking forward to hearing more about success coaches, how having them helps us design more equitable and effective schools. Welcome, Jonathan. Before we dive in, we would like to start by asking, when you were in school, what was a good day?
Jonathan (01:48):
First, Bob, thank you so much for the opportunity to engage. As I think back to Arbor Hill Elementary School a good day for me… you know, I played school as a kid, so I always enjoyed going to school. I loved reading and writing in particular, but music was special. So having a day with music with Mrs. Rhonda Ferguson would definitely be a good day. Mrs. Ferguson remains the educator who was truly one of the most caring adults and one of the most authentic examples of care and concern in our school community. But she also really remained committed to the success of each and every student to this day. I am still in contact with Mrs. Ferguson; I actually had a chance to speak with her over the last week or so, but what I remember most was her commitment, the strong relationships that she had with not only the students, but with our families. So a good day for me, especially at Arbor Hill Elementary School, was a day with music and Mrs. Rhonda Ferguson,
Robert (03:01):
Thank you, Jonathan. It's quite amazing, right? How those early experiences are so formative, and years later, we can see them and taste them and feel them and they still form us. So let's learn a little more about you. Before City Year, you spent a number of years in educational leadership. Share some of your background with us and how it informs your current work with City Year.
Jonathan (03:25):
Sure. So I would say, my work in education has always been about access, equity, and success. Prior to joining City Year, I had the opportunity to lead the Next Step public charter school in Washington, DC, a school designed to support students who had not been successful in traditional school environments, with a focus on adult learners, 16 to 30, who were working on their GED or working on English as a second language. And in that environment, we adopted a philosophy that we would do whatever it took to make sure that our students were successful. From having case managers and comprehensive mental health support in the school, to an extended day that operated 9:00 AM to 9:00 PM, to offering daycare services to a small portion of our students, our job and our goal was to remove all of the barriers that stood in the way of students’ being successful in that environment.
Jonathan (04:25):
So I think about that every day in my work at City Year. How are we advancing equity? How are we removing barriers? But most importantly, how are we helping students fall in love with learning again and creating true community in the schools where our students are attending so that they can thrive, so that they feel connected? And so that they feel a sense of belonging and support beyond simply just being an enrolled student with a goal of getting through the GED? How do we make it a second home for our learners?
Robert (04:58):
Wonderful. Really, it's about creating that sense of community, right, and belonging, so it's a place people want to be and know that from there they can go somewhere.
Jonathan (05:09):
Absolutely. And what was interesting, even in our journey, especially during my time at the school, we highlighted a Saturday academy and we had students showing up earlier on Saturday than they did during the school week. So we did something right, right? If we could figure out a way to get students early on Saturday? Now Monday, it was a little bit of a struggle to get students back on time on Monday, but they were there Saturday for about four hours of instruction mixed with a little bit of their personal or career interest. So we definitely found some things that worked well, largely around knowing students and their aspirations; that really helped us to move that work forward.[JW1]
Robert (05:55):
Great. Great. Could you tell us now just a little bit about City Year and how it organizes its work to support students and teachers and schools, and where that happens?
Jonathan (06:06):
Absolutely. For over 30 years, City Year has been an incredible partner in schools and communities across the country. To date, there are 39 cities across 20 states where City Year is partnering closely with individual schools and districts to provide comprehensive support, in terms of cultivating a welcoming, warm, and inclusive environment for student learners, but also partnering with educators and other caring adults in the building to make sure that the individual students’ needs are being met, whether that be through academic support directly, attendance, social-emotional learning, and just being a part of the community: caring hands ready to serve throughout the school, whether it be through transitions—I always think about the sense of community that you can create in the morning at lunch, and certainly the close of the day. And I see our Corps members serving in all capacities, and there's an expression: “Wherever the students are, our Corps members are present,” and certainly they’re moving the mark and helping to know and to support each and every student.
Robert (07:24):
Great. Great. So let's get into it. What are success coaches? I mean, I'm sure everybody is in favor of success and we sort of get the idea of what a coach is, but you put those two together and the question is, what are success coaches? What do they do?
Jonathan (07:40):
Absolutely. So, when we think about City Year's work in particular, I always start with the near peer, right? We think about who is able to reach a student and support that learner through their unique challenges, their unique opportunities for further development and growth, social-emotional and academic. But the student success coach in our case is an AmeriCorps member serving full-time, in that Corps members are part of a diverse team focused on serving in schools that are systemically under-resourced. And I think of it as removing those barriers, right, similar to what I described just a few moments ago. How can a near peer provide social-emotional and academic support and be present to create a warm environment, a supportive, inclusive environment that would be ideal to advance learning in the classroom to support the educator, to support the culture and climate of the entire school, but most importantly, to have that strong, positive relationship with each and every learner.
Jonathan (08:55):
So for me, that success coach in many ways is almost fictive kin, right? That person who becomes a part of your familial network, who may not have a bloodline relationship, but someone who cares so deeply and knows you so well, they can actually help you to see a better way or help you to learn your own voice and to advocate for yourself to have a sense of agency, to have a sense of power in your experience. So those are the things that come to mind. When I think about the student success coach in particular, as we think about what does it take to advance educational equity, and how do we empower learners, not just in the moment, but how do we empower learners for lifelong learning, right? How do we combine both the social-emotional and the academic development together? And the student success coach for me is the premier example of not only bringing those two worlds together, but how are we also creating a culture and a climate within schools where students feel a sense of belonging connection a and community.
Robert (10:18):
Yeah. Different days bring different challenges and coaches are there with the idea that they're adaptive, right? They can adjust to where you are based on what's happening in your life, but also have sort of a through line to sort of some long-term goals. So paint a picture for us. What does a day in the life of a success coach look like, and what are some of the students’ school needs, that they might be helping address during that day?
Jonathan (11:08):
Sure. And I miss being in the building, right? You know, when you walk into a school, there's a feel of the energy that comes with learning, and the student success coach is very much present throughout every phase of opening, whether it's a power welcome where students are greeted with cheers and enthusiasm for what the day has to hold. And from there, the individual greetings. A check-in with students around their behavioral goals of the day is commonplace among the student success coaches. From there, we think about morning breakfast, and you have the student success coach circulating through the cafeteria, greeting students, checking in with students, or even following up with parents or surfacing any concerns that educators might have to get ready for a lesson.
Jonathan (12:06):
You know, the critical capacity of the student success coach in the start of the school day creates a consistency for the learner, but also certainly for the educator they're partnering with. But then we think about what does it look like in the classroom? As the academic day starts, the student success coach could be working with a small group of students following up on the previous day's lesson, or maybe reviewing data to see, well, who might we engage with later on in that same day? The educator in the room sees the student success coach as a critical partner and may already have in mind ways to engage the student success coach as the instruction unfolds. Maybe the student success coach has a group of five students who may need additional support in a particular math competency or an English language arts competency. So there's a partnership that's possible between the educator and the student success coach.
Jonathan (13:06):
But also, we have that social-emotional piece too, right? We have the check-ins on behavioral goals. We have the check-ins on attendance. Maybe that student wasn't present the previous day and the student success coach gets the chance to build that relationship, but also is a consistent caring adult in the life of the student. They are integral to any sort of assembly or school-wide activity or even messaging campaigns to keep students, faculty, and staff excited about what might be on the way for the school year.
Jonathan (14:14):
So I think about that critical capacity of the student success coach as another set of hands, another set of eyes, but also heart, right? That individual is present for students, small groups, individuals, but also is present for the entire school and making sure that the heart of the school, the culture of the school remains welcoming, supportive, and fun. There's a energy that comes with the student success coach. And there's also that near peer that says I'm here for you, I'm an extension of your unit, and I will move through the day with you and your classmates to make sure that you're at your best. And we're doing this together.
Robert (14:59):
Thanks. Thanks. That was very, very helpful. And it sure makes it sound like a success coach is a really challenging role. And then when I think that these are 21- and 22-year-olds, by and large, in the near-peer idea, what supports do success coaches need to be successful?
Jonathan (15:20):
You know, that's such a great question. And we think about just what we are experiencing now with the realities of living through almost two years of pandemic, and the needs for anyone serving in schools should remain at the forefront of our mind. And when we're thinking about the student success coach, I would say first the understanding of what it means to serve and how to think about the unique nature of the community, whether the student success coach is familiar with and a product of the community, there's still a different way. We show up to serve when we are in a position of impacting the lives of young people. So how do we first remain focused on our own identity as serving the community and being present in classrooms and being present in schools.
Jonathan (16:18):
And what does that mean around youth development? What does that mean around a school culture or an environment that has experienced tremendous trauma over the years? Or what does that mean for under-resourced schools and having that deep awareness? So, understanding self, understanding the context in which we're serving, understanding the school, and then understanding the content. How do we equip the student success coach to not only provide the social-emotional support, but how are they also equipped to do the academic support simultaneously? How do we weave the two together? How do we support the diverse team of coaches working in the school?
Jonathan (17:25):
But what does it mean for their life after City Year, or what does it mean to contribute back into the education ecosystem? What are opportunities where the coach can continue to develop skills and dispositions so that they may return to the academic space to be a teacher, or what might they practice through their year as a student success coach to then return to the class or rather return to the school, in a way in which they are leading the instruction or providing support as a dean of students. So how are student success coaches understanding their current service, but also what does that look like after their year of service, and how are they best prepared to serve in the community and also continue to grow as individuals?
Robert (18:34):
Yes, that whole arc there is really important to what makes it successful. And just one thing I want to add is, my understanding is that typically this is not one or two 22-year-olds by themselves in a school. They typically serve on teams of maybe 7, 8, 9, 10 success coaches together. And as I think I have it right, they often have a team leader who plays an interfacing role with the principal and an organizing and support role with the coaches.
Jonathan (19:09):
So, absolutely, you’re spot on. The typical team within a school is about 7 to 10 core members. And the impact manager is really that partner who we hope is on the school leadership team and is working closest with school principal, with the dean of instruction or other members of the leadership team of the school, to best understand how the student success coaches can be supportive throughout the school environment. And certainly to make sense of the data and how the academic performance data or the attendance data will direct the energy of the team at a given time or what other supports might be needed for the team, for the coaches themselves, to be in best support of the students and the school community that they're serving. So in addition to their own learning journey, there are some structures that are absolutely integral.
Jonathan (20:07):
And in my idea, I think back to the school. I liked having a partner who was willing to join the school leadership team, the impact manager in this case, having that voice at the table, but also having that really integrated intentional collaboration is an assurance for success, right? That way the principal is not providing daily instruction, right? They have a partner in the work who is running point to say, given these goals, or given the data, here's how we are showing up across the school community. Here are the ways in which we believe we can be helpful, and we want to be thought partners with you. We want to help. We want to make sure that we are where students are and we're moving the work forward.
Robert (21:11):
Thanks. So in many ways, the current City Year experiences is to go into existing schools, to be hip to shoulder with the teachers and form strong connections with the students and become part of their family, as you said, and to provide a wide range of supports to help the kids succeed. But as we're thinking about designing education and creating this new form of human capital, what if we could build that idea of having 10 success coaches as the norm, the thing that happens in the design of our schools from the start? How might that change how we design our schools and how might it better propel us towards stronger and more equitable learning environments?
Jonathan (22:05):
I love a great wish list. You know, if I think back to leading my own school, coupled with the work that we're hoping to do through City Year, it really is a game changer on so many levels. There's a human capital level, right? If you have a team of 10 caring adults, near-peer, trained, and willing to roll up their sleeves and really provide supports for students, you're not only supporting the direct activity of the school, but there's a longevity, there's a sustainability. Imagine if those 10 core members then became your ten first year teachers or your eight first year teachers and two school counselors, it really can ensure the success of the school and the continuity of support for students and families. So, number one, there's a pipeline piece that's really powerful there.
Jonathan (23:07):
The other piece is that the student success coach, as they're engaging with the student, there is this recursive model. As the student is learning, the coach is learning too. And as the coach is learning and the culture is inclusive and supportive in advancing equity, everyone in that school environment is removing the barriers for student achievement, but also for the greater community. And that may also lead to, how are these best practices, informing the continuous professional development of educators, the continuous professional development of school leaders? And how are we creating moments for collaborative instruction where the end is individualized learning plans? How are we being even more specific around meeting students’ needs in ways that our traditional school environment may not support?
Jonathan (24:23):
But most importantly, it is addressing some of the longstanding structural challenges or experiences that students have had, or even their families may have had, with school. It's redefining, what does school and what does community look like? And I think an even clearer example is the way in which full service community schools, or the way in which student success coaches are serving in those spaces to be the connector to community resources, while also the connector within the school.
Jonathan (25:17):
That's a really powerful tool to address, uh, and support, uh, education equity, and certainly the success of each and every learner.
Robert (26:13):
Yeah. There's a lot of powerful stuff there. And what strikes me is that we're talking about ten people. So often our schools struggle just to be able to fund one more position, one more person. There's a saying in science that if you change something by an order of magnitude, you change the world. If you go from being able to go ten miles an hour to a hundred miles an hour, your ability to travel is dramatically changed. And I think what this is arguing is that we have to get beyond schools trying so hard to be able to add one more person. It's more in the order of adding 10 more people that you need really to change the conditions and the possibilities at any significant level. I think that's a really exciting part of this vision, that it's not one more, it's ten more.
Jonathan (27:03):
Exactly.
Robert (27:05):
And then the other thing, it just strikes me that, especially now with schools feeling so much staffing pressure and shortages, that the pipeline is powerful too. Because we know that often folks think they want to be teachers and then they quickly learn that they don't want to be teachers. But that learning curve involves at least a year in front of students. And it just strikes me that this provides such a nice transition where the coaches can see, “Hmm, is this for me or not?” And once they say yes, then the commitment is going to like be much longer and much more effective.
Jonathan (27:46):
Absolutely. And Bob, just, you know, I would say within the past two weeks, I was having a conversation with a dear colleague, Jill Cook of the American School Counselor Association. And she posed a question to me, “Are student success coaches then transitioning on to become school counselors?” And I said, “Jill, that's such a great question.” Because if we think about the work of the student success coach—and to your point, some may recognize that teaching may not be their passion—but the removal of the barriers, the engagement, identifying the supports and certainly supporting the student and the family, that is the work of school counselors. So I think even if it's not teaching, that pipeline supports the entirety of the school and the community. And just thinking about, wow, if you have student success, coaches who build these relationships with students, who love the opportunity to see a challenge and to customize the support and walk alongside the student, as they develop their voice and a sense of agency, that's a really powerful place.
Jonathan (29:02):
And it does not necessarily need to be the content delivery. It could be removing the barriers. It could be the consistent support, that accountability, and certainly the allocation of resources or services to students and families. So I'm really excited to continue to see how student success coaches, as they finish their year of service with City Year, how they contribute to the larger education ecosystem. And certainly as we think about removing barriers and addressing education equity.
Robert (29:35):
Yeah. So now I'm just going to move us a little more broadly again. So far, we've really been focused on the City Year corps member as an example of a success coach, but I know you've also been doing some work to identify other examples of success coaches, in other parts of the country or from other organizations. And just share with us a little bit of what you've been learning about some other examples of how schools and places are organizing success coaches.
Jonathan (30:03):
Absolutely. So just to think about one of the core differences we recognize, as we've done program landscape analysis, is that there are a number of programs that are integrating the academic and the social-emotional, but where we see some variance is just what the intensity or the consistency of engagement is. So there are a number of programs across the country that will take on a more part-time approach or even support after school, or before-school supports, for this student success coach-like experience. But what we're learning is there is still that consistency around the support for students around the social-emotional and the academic. Rhe piece that always remains a curiosity for us is how might we support other programs with the use of data, access to data, and how that's informing the way in which a student success coach can support a learner, if it's through an external program, either after school or a drop-in service or resource. That sort of partnership with the school may not exist to that same intensity.
Jonathan (31:26):
So we remain curious as to how we can be supportive to a program model, if it is a part-time approach, that would still have that same level of collaboration and support with the educator and the other caring adults in the school. We've also seen in some of the programs, a real desire to incorporate some of the other elements of support for planning for students, maybe at other levels. You may see the integration of post-secondary planning with the student success coach framework, where it's really clearly articulating goals beyond their time in the secondary experience. So how might there be support to and through graduation? How might there be the wraparound support and the academic support plus the planning for career or college? So that's another unique factor, which really brings together the post-secondary planning as well as the assurance of completion of the K12 setting.
Robert (33:44):
Yeah. It’s a lot to think about. So that sets us up for our last question. It's the big question. So you made a really compelling case for the value of success coaches, both at the student level and for how it can help transform schools. So how do we get more of them? What's standing in the way of really bringing this to scale? Is it more about resources or mindsets or both?
Jonathan (34:11):
Bob, I love this question. When we think about even just the notion of systems change, it is a mindset, it is a resource and it's a sustainability issue. When we think about the work of a student success coach, it is a game-changing capacity added to schools. It is a capacity that should be invested in deeply, such that an entire school community would feel and experience the impact of the student success coach. That does require a level of commitment from the school, but it also requires—and we have evidence of the impact of the intermediary support at the school level, that management, that leadership opportunity at the school level. So I think scaling it up would mean the source, the true collaboration and integration at the school leadership team level. I think about the pipelines of student success coaches or corps members, those who are serving into the opportunity as well as the pipeline, as they continue on to serving as educators.
Jonathan (35:22):
I think that strengthen the pipeline on both ends, right? The supply, if we're increasing the demand for the student success coach, how do we also support the education ecosystem thereafter? So if we're thinking about the inputs and outputs, the sustainability of the work… but also recognizing that when we commit to advancing educational equity, it is for the success of each and every student. It requires us to think differently. It requires us to be nimble, responsive, adaptive, but it requires us also to think about, are we empowering the learner to be successful beyond that moment? So that mindset shift is critical. That paradigm shift is critical, in terms of how we appreciate education equity and how we advance the work across the nation and across schools. But also, how do we make sure that the student success coach who is serving this critical capacity is welcome and integrated into the school environment in ways that we would never go back to another way? Why would we take that out? Why would we, uh, less the experience of the learner in the school? Like there there's that a commitment there there's a sustainability that's needed for, for this work. Um, but it's really exciting. And it's definitely, especially if we think about the districts, the schools that have been historically and systemically under resourced, the, this can make such a difference for those communities. And certainly as we think about pipelines for educators, hopefully even more of the student success coaches will join the teams within the schools to sustain that impact in the classroom or other facets of the school operation.
Robert (37:22):
Yeah. And, you know, it's all true. And it's all part of the opportunity and the challenge. And one thing that just struck me is that as this idea gets out there more, and it becomes more of a possibility for more schools, I see this as something that most parents are going to want for their kids. Whether it's a community of higher need or a very affluent community. And I think that could set up its own challenges of which of those actually have the resources to meet that parental demand. And how can we break that cycle of suddenly, when something is of value, that it's those with the greatest resources who get the value.
Jonathan (38:10):
Right. And it brings us back to educational equity.
Robert (38:14):
Right.
Robert (39:08):
So I want to really thank you, Jonathan, for bringing your insights and your passions to the forefront today and sharing with us this bold idea of student success coaches and the power that it can bring to schools and to the opportunity of our youth. So thank you for being with us today. Thank you. We learned a lot. So in closing, I want to say that there are about 14,000 school districts in the United States, but half the students that are falling off track to high school graduation and find themselves with very limited pathways to adult success can be found in just 500 of them. 500 of that 14,000 are where half the students that are falling off track are found. And this is the result of more than a century of racial and economic segregation and injustice. To provide all students with a future, schools that serve communities that are furthest from opportunities, as Jonathan has said, will need to be designed and resourced quite differently.
Robert (40:05)
And I think that a key part of the challenge we face, is to make sure we're true to that. And a key part of this design will be finding new ways to bring additional adults into these schools, significant numbers of them as we heard today, not one or two but 10 who can, in adaptive and customized ways, provide students with holistic academic and social-emotional supports and learning experiences. Success coaches are critical to that, and really are a bold new way to think about student supports and to provide them. And when you think about it, the most elite athletes and corporate executives have them. So isn’t it time we provide them to the communities we have served the most poorly, and the students who are furthest from opportunity, not just those that have been most privileged? It’s something for us to think about. This is Robert Balfanz from the Everyone Graduates Center and the Pathways to Adult Success project, thanking everyone for listening and inviting you to listen to the other podcasts in our Designing Education series. Onward, and be well. Thank you.