Join us on a fascinating journey with Lucy Jeffrey, the founder of Bare Kind, as we peel back the layers of her journey from the banking sector to the e-commerce world. Lucy is a beacon of inspiration, demonstrating the power of entrepreneurial spirit and a steadfast commitment to conservation and sustainability.
Lucy Jeffrey started her venture with a mission to give back to the environment and animal conservation. Initially selling reusable straws and recycled tote bags, Lucy's vision evolved into something much bigger. She honed in on the sock market, specializing in gifting socks, and incorporated a unique selling point – donating 10% of profits to 25 different animal charities. Her commitment to sustainability and philanthropy quickly caught the attention of consumers.
In this episode, Lucy graciously shares her insights on sustainability practices, partnerships with charities, and the importance of merchandising in stock decision making. She also reveals the future plans of Bare Kind, including their exploration of AI technology for tasks like video editing and social media content creation.
Additionally, we delve into Lucy's experience as a female founder in the e-commerce industry. While she acknowledges the challenges, she also highlights the increasing opportunities for investment in female-founded businesses, which is undoubtedly encouraging for aspiring entrepreneurs.
Join us for this enriching conversation, filled with insights and stories that every entrepreneur can learn from - particularly those seeking to make a positive impact on the planet through their business.
Subscribe to Re:tales and get an instant notification when a new episode is released. We’re available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Join us on a fascinating journey with Lucy Jeffrey, the founder of Bare Kind, as we peel back the layers of her journey from the banking sector to the e-commerce world. Lucy is a beacon of inspiration, demonstrating the power of entrepreneurial spirit and a steadfast commitment to conservation and sustainability.
Lucy Jeffrey started her venture with a mission to give back to the environment and animal conservation. Initially selling reusable straws and recycled tote bags, Lucy's vision evolved into something much bigger. She honed in on the sock market, specializing in gifting socks, and incorporated a unique selling point – donating 10% of profits to 25 different animal charities. Her commitment to sustainability and philanthropy quickly caught the attention of consumers.
In this episode, Lucy graciously shares her insights on sustainability practices, partnerships with charities, and the importance of merchandising in stock decision making. She also reveals the future plans of Bare Kind, including their exploration of AI technology for tasks like video editing and social media content creation.
Additionally, we delve into Lucy's experience as a female founder in the e-commerce industry. While she acknowledges the challenges, she also highlights the increasing opportunities for investment in female-founded businesses, which is undoubtedly encouraging for aspiring entrepreneurs.
Join us for this enriching conversation, filled with insights and stories that every entrepreneur can learn from - particularly those seeking to make a positive impact on the planet through their business.
Subscribe to Re:tales and get an instant notification when a new episode is released. We’re available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hello everybody and welcome to Retails. I'm Caroline Baldwin and this week I sat down with Lucy Geoffrey. She is the founder of Charitable Sock Company Bearkind. What I found absolutely fascinating about this conversation, firstly, is how she's using gifting, which has really helped with customer acquisition and then pushing that business to be beyond just, you know, stocking fillers at Christmas, and she's doing some really interesting things in that space.
Speaker 1:Also, both the difficulties and opportunities about dealing with charities. When you promise to give 10% of your profits to various charities and I think she has about 25 different animal charities on board at the minute not only is that opportunistic, there are actually some tricky conversations to be had when building multiple partnerships there. And the other thing that I absolutely loved about this conversation is that Lucy is a female founder in e-commerce, so obviously I asked her about the challenges about being a woman in business and Lucy she was saying you know the obvious thing that historically it's been tricky sometimes getting investment as a female founder, but nowadays it's actually an opportunity and, yeah, more and more people are looking to invest in female founded businesses, which is just wonderful to hear. So a really fantastic conversation with Lucy today. I really hope you enjoy this episode and welcome to Retails.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Retails e-commerce growth stories, where we unveil captivating tales of triumph, part earned lessons and the secrets to success in retail and e-commerce. Join us as we sit down with e-commerce titans, disruptive challenger brands and industry experts to explore winning strategies, market and leadership insights, and future shaping trends and innovations. From AI to venture capital, global expansion to automation these powerful conversations will fuel your growth trajectory. We believe every story contains valuable lessons. Retails is your ultimate destination to uncover them. Now to our host, Caroline Baldwin.
Speaker 1:So my guest today is Lucy Geoffrey, the founder of Bearkind. From banking at HSBC to championing bamboo socks that make a difference, lucy's e-commerce tale is interwoven with a passion for endangered species and a flair for wholesale. With an innovative business model and a commitment to our planet's creatures, lucy is redefining the essence of business growth. Lucy Geoffrey, welcome to Retails. How are you doing this morning?
Speaker 3:Hi Caroline, thank you so much for having me. What a lovely intro.
Speaker 1:Oh bless you. So, yeah, how are things going? And yeah, tell us a little bit about your business.
Speaker 3:Yeah, sure, yeah, things are going good, so yeah. So my business is Bearkind and we sell bamboo socks where 10% of the profits are donated to the animal on the sock. So we're just a sock company, but we think we can kind of change the world and what we're doing. Every single sock is related to a charity partner. So we've got over 25 charity partners now saving animals in their own way, whether that's conservation around the world. We've got a few. We've got an animal sanctuary as well now. So predominantly we're working with endangered species, but we have now got some cows and pigs and sheep as well, because customers were asking for them a lot. Yeah, so just really really excited to be in this space and really proud of what we've been doing so far.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. So tell us a little bit about how you went from working for one of the world's largest banks to starting up your own business, and what was that kind of pivotal moment for you when you wanted to create socks that saved the planet?
Speaker 3:I know it's quite random, isn't it? Banking to socks, but yeah, so I was working at HSBC, I'd done the grad scheme and then I'd rolled off into a kind of standard nine to five job. It was fine, I didn't mind it, but it wasn't lighting any fires underneath me. I wanted to give back to the planet more, so I started Bearkind whilst I was still at the bank and at the time I was selling other products before I jumped into the socks. So I was doing reusable straws, recycled tote bags. I was just experimenting, really. And then I knew that I really wanted to work with conservation charities. I love animals. I wanted to help in some way.
Speaker 3:So the model came first, that 10% donation came first, and then I thought, okay, what product would work really well here? And I just started with socks. So it's difficult. There wasn't some light bulb moment where I thought, oh, this a sock and the charity and all this. It kind of kind of pieced it together over a few months. I started with one design, so I started with turtles. I reached out to the Turtle Foundation. They loved the idea. I launched that one sock in 2019 and my customers, because I already had a bit of a customer base from the previous products. My customers loved them and were already asking me what's next? Which animal? I want this animal, I want this animal. So I launched a further four orangutans and penguins. They came in and then it's kind of snowballed from there. So it wasn't until the end of 2020 that I actually quit my job to pursue this full time, and now we've got a range of about 50 different animal socks and I have a sock company on my hand. So it wasn't really planned, but here I am.
Speaker 1:Incredible. So was the sustainable element of this business always really important to you, and how so?
Speaker 3:Yeah, super important. I just thought I think we can be more powerful in what we're doing with business. Like, I think it's difficult because obviously there's a lot of massive corporations across the world that in business they're seen as kind of the enemy in terms of the environment, but then you look at someone like Patagonia and they're kind of in partnership with the planet, which is really inspiring. So I want to go down that route of like business for good and what can we do there? How can we change what business does to make it better for the planet? Because at the end of the day, we're a massive planet of consumers. We're going to keep consuming this and this is why I feel so strongly that, with socks, like everyone, most people need and wear socks and keep continuing to buy socks. So why can't those socks that you have to buy do a little better for the planet?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting that you talk about that because you touched on Patagonia right. So that's an outdoor where you're getting out into nature, so it kind of naturally lends itself into looking after the planet that everyone wants to go out and explore, Similar with yours, you know. People might be like oh, I want to buy that penguin sock for my daughter who loves penguins and wants to see that conservation area increase. But you've got businesses elsewhere as well that don't necessarily have the sustainability, consumer facing side of things. Was it important for you to do a business that have that for the consumer as well, rather than just the back end and making sure that your business is sustainable from the ground up?
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely, because it feels like a lot of the kind of back end sustainability things become bit of a tick box these days, which it needs to be, like our packaging has to be on point, like everything you're doing in the back end should be good from a sustainability point of view. But I really do believe it's going to become a point where consumers are demanding the front facing stuff. They're hot on all the greenwashing that all these companies are bringing in these days, like the big fast fashion companies that are coming out and saying, well, this range is eco conscious and it's like is it? Is it eco conscious? So I think consumers are really skeptical about that at the moment as well. So it's an interesting space because they're super, super supportive.
Speaker 3:But also you have kind of this bunch of people that are also really skeptical of every single company, because we've been greenwashed so much and I'm seeing that coming through, particularly on our Facebook ads. That's an interesting one because that's where I'd say, consumers are seeing us where they've not seen us before. So they don't see me behind it, they don't see the journey, they just see a company and a charity donation, and that's where we get the most skeptics come out and say, well, how much are you paying your CEOs? And I'm like, oh, it's just me, not much. So yeah, it's really interesting. People are, you know, they want to be supportive of companies doing the right thing, but they're also very skeptical that is the right thing actually being done.
Speaker 1:I can imagine that's quite interesting because a lot of people are quite skeptical of carbon offsetting, for instance. You know, hey, get on a plane, but you know I'll plan tendries for you and make you feel a bit better. So that charity element you need to make sure that that is as wholesome as you intend it to be in that messaging forward to the customer. It's a really, really interesting side of business to be in. And tell me a little bit about that setting it up. Was it quite difficult to make sure everything was sustainable in the back end that the consumers aren't seeing? So you could be really genuine about this.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think so. I mean from the charity point of view that's. I mean that's easy to be quite black and white about because we put commercial partnership agreements in place. So I'd say anyone that's looking into doing this, you need those CPAs in place and a lot of charities will have that in place. But it was really interesting.
Speaker 3:You're trying to do a good thing and donate to charity, but sometimes it's really hard to get those partnerships in place. I've had people say no. I've had charities that say no. I've had some charities we started working with and the relationship was too hard to maintain on our side. We've got over 25 charities now. So it's a massive admin piece, if anything, and those are all partnerships I have to manage. So if the communication isn't there, it's actually really difficult to manage those partnerships. So that can be quite tricky. But as we've grown we get more part. We get more charities come to us now and say we'd love to work with you. Can we collaborate on a sock? So now we've grown it's easier because we've got kind of a space in the market already and then from a sustainability point of view on the back end, for the rest of it it's quite it's easy to control the things that we can control, because we make the decision.
Speaker 3:I think what's hard as a small business is the supply chain, because the smaller you are, the harder it is to make an impact, the harder it is to even have those conversations in the first place. The further back down the supply chain you go, the harder it is to get the right answers. So we've done a lot of digging to really get into the kind of information that's out there in our supply chain. I think the answer really is to go and visit them as well. We're actually going out to visit our manufacturer in Turkey next week, which will be fun, so that's the first time that we'll have gone to visit them. They've come and visited us a few times, so we have met them, but at the end of the day, I think unless you're visiting them or you have, you're big enough to really get them to answer you, it is really difficult.
Speaker 1:Retails, the renowned e-commerce podcast from BrightPill, is hosting a virtual panel discussing e-commerce finance and fundraising, exclusively designed for e-commerce brands. Hosted by me, Caroline Baldwin, and featuring seasoned e-commerce players, challenger brands and industry experts will guide you through financial management and fundraising in the fast-paced world of online retail, From maximizing holiday sales to the right funding options for your business and attracting investors. Retails has you covered. Secure your spot now at brightpillcom. Forward slash. Retails-takeover. Spaces are limited, so act fast and we will see you there. Let's move on to a bit more about the business side and being a woman in e-com. So what are some of the challenges that you faced as a female founder?
Speaker 3:Well that typically in the industry, female founders get such a tiny percentage of investment that's out there, especially in e-com and I'm not going to start quoting figures because I don't know the actual amount, but it is a tiny percentage of women that actually get the e-commerce funding.
Speaker 3:So I think already coming into that space, that's a blocker, but I also see it as an opportunity, because there are lots of funds, there's lots of people, there's lots of groups out there who are trying to support women more. So I only see it as a superpower now because people are trying to support female founder businesses and that is why I am the kind of founder and I will continue to be the forward facing founder of the business because it is so much more powerful. People want to support female led businesses and it's almost like a tag. Now we're on various marketplaces and things and you can tag yourself as a female founder business because people want to buy from female founder businesses. So yes, historically it can be a blocker or it can be kind of a hurdle, I guess, but no, I think it's just an opportunity now.
Speaker 1:That's really great to hear, and I'm right in thinking that you've bought your partner on board with the business and they're going to be CEO this year. How do you think the dynamics and responsibilities are going to evolve when that happens?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so he left HSBC as well. So we met at the bank and he left at the start of 2023. So he's now in the business and it was a bit, to start with, it was a bit weird. It was a bit of us trying to find our path, I guess, to how we'd work together and a lot of sitting down and talking and working at how this is going to play out. We naturally have opposite strengths, so already that's quite good, but I think the conversation around our position in the business was really important. So, yes, we have decided to do.
Speaker 3:I'm the founder and he's the CEO, and it's a couple of reasons behind. That is one he has got a lot more corporate experience than I, have leading teams and also a finance background as well. So he's kind of taken that side of the business and, as I said before, it's really powerful to have me still as the front of the business. I founded it. We've got a very female customer base as well, so people naturally gravitate towards me and supporting me and the business. So he's kind of taken that step out of the limelight, as it were, and he's running the business. And then there's the certain parts of the business that I run, so I'm on product, I'm on sustainability and things like that and the stuff that we do together. But then I would do things like this, like jumping on the podcast and talking about our mission and what we're about.
Speaker 1:So talk to me, how big is the market that you're in right now and how do you guys position yourself within that market?
Speaker 3:I mean, if you took the whole sock market, it is absolutely huge, because you have to consider that obviously there's big players like M&S etc. That will sell socks. But I actually position ourselves outside of that market in more like the happy socks market. So this is socks for gifting and they are huge. They're a multi-million dollar company, so we're nowhere near that yet. So I'd say we're kind of like in the middle. There's a lot of smaller sock brands around.
Speaker 3:But yeah, I'd say we're kind of in this space and growing and I you know, I you know my aim is global domination. Like I really want to kind of grow on this path and keep going and aim for kind of happy socks level. But we do have our USP. So we have this 10% of profits donated to animals and, as far as I can see, we're the biggest sock company that does that. We have the largest range of animal saving socks. So we really are driving down this USP and we're only getting bigger in this space.
Speaker 3:So you know, we're trying. We're actively trying to grow and we're actively trying to grow the product range as well. There's a lot. We've got a lot of socks in the pipeline for like this year and beyond. So, yeah, I think there's there's a lot of market share for us to go after, and also, so many people wear socks, like it's just one of those things, and I think we're in a quiet period at the moment because it's summer, typically a very quiet period for us, especially in August, but as soon as Christmas shopping season starts, it just goes crazy.
Speaker 1:Definitely so. Not many of your customers are socks and sandals wearers, clearly in the summer period. No, I know we need them to be. So talk to us a little bit more about the the charity aspect and linking into your brand image. Do you feel like a lot of your customers come to you initially because of that and they might have I don't know a daughter that, as I said before, might be obsessed with penguins and they're like this is a brilliant, you know stocking filler, not to use a bit of another pun there. And how do you then drive them into maybe more, more customer loyalty?
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. I definitely think people come into us because of the animal thing. They see that I mean we do have really cute designs, so I think they translate well when you see them. And then it's like that added bonus and we see this coming through in our reviews that people just love the, the charity aspect of it, and people seem to be picking based on the animal. So they'll, you know, they'll come through and say I love orangutans or my dad loves elephants, this was a great present for Christmas or Father's Day or whatever that is.
Speaker 3:But they actually stick around because the quality of the product as well. Because I think realistically we could have been a gimmicky product Like it's, you know, it's a great cause and it's a great idea, but if we didn't follow through on the product quality then I don't think people would keep coming back for more. But we do see people honestly changing their entire sock drawers to our socks and it helps that we're constantly evolving the range of bringing up new animals and new charity partnerships and it's, you know, there's always something exciting being released. So I think you know people hang around for that and become like loyal supporters and want all of our socks. It's almost like a kind of Pokemon collector mall. So yeah, I think they hang out. They do hang around for that.
Speaker 1:Excellent. What's been your favorite partnership so far?
Speaker 3:That's a really difficult one. I have a rescue bunny rabbit, so our like rescue bunny charity. One bun at a time is my favorite. One that's got is close to my heart, so that's, that's been my favorite one. Adorable, do you say.
Speaker 1:One bun at a time Excellent name for a charity. So you also sell your socks wholesale as well as e-commerce, and I've got here that you went into 700 different retailers in a space of six months, which is incredibly impressive. Tell us a little bit more about how that happened.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we've had a lot of growth in this space, so it's been mainly through marketplaces. So we join marketplaces such as fair Angostore. I liken them to like the Etsy of the wholesale world, so it's a lot of like independent brands listing their products and then independent retailers, boutiques, that kind of thing, then shopping and they can kind of just pick and choose what they want off the platform. But they started a massive growth campaign in Europe, these like platforms, so we kind of really jumped on that and saw it as an opportunity and they've just gone really hard.
Speaker 3:On our like lead acquisition, our email marketing and just gone really hard into that space. We've also found our niche in podiatrists. So because we're selling bamboo socks, they're actually really good for foot health, so podiatrists really like stocking them. But because we're not just a normal kind of health sock, we've also got the different angles and the nice designs. We've done really well in that space. We've had a huge amount of growth and, yeah, now we're in over 700 retailers around the world. So it's been huge.
Speaker 3:And I'd say the next stage for us on this is we'd like to get into a large retailer. They're all independence, which is amazing because it's kind of upfront payments. They're not squeezing your margins and typically larger retailers will have much longer payment terms. They might squeeze your margins down. But we're going to a trade show in February in Birmingham, so it's a big one and that will be us kind of negotiating with buyers and meeting new people and hopefully getting into the likes of John Lewis If they're listening, that'd be great. So, yeah, that's. Our next goal would be to get into a larger retailer as well, because obviously that's amazing for brand awareness, of course.
Speaker 1:I was just about to ask what would your dream hit list retailer be? Would that be John Lewis?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I always say that that's the main one.
Speaker 3:I think that their target audience marries up with ours and it's just such a typical place, especially at Christmas, which is our biggest time of year by far. Like 60% of our revenue last year came in November and December. So you know, we're looking for those customers who are kind of in John Lewis looking to get their shopping list done, and we are like, basically a solution for your shopping list. You can tick off so many people in one go and, as you mentioned, stocking fillers, they're also perfect for that as well. So, yeah, that John Lewis would be amazing, but there's obviously a lot of other retailers that I think we could align with as well.
Speaker 1:Of course, and what are the biggest challenges in terms of getting in front of those retailers to have those initial conversations?
Speaker 3:They're very protective of their buyers, I think, because natural night I get this naturally they must have so many pictures, so many emails, it's very hard to get in front of them in the first place. So I think that's the first hurdle is actually getting in front of the right person, especially at the right time, because they also they have their own buying windows. So once the budget is up, once that buying windows close, that's it. So they might see your product but they can't do anything about until the next year. So I think the second blocker is actually consistently being in front of the right person as well. And that's possibly where these trade shows come in Is where, if you're consistently there in, the buyer see you each time. I guess you're more likely to be front of mind when they do come to make a buying decision. But the trade shows are very expensive.
Speaker 1:So let's talk up. She went from twenty thousand pounds with the revenue in twenty twenty to five hundred and forty K in twenty twenty two. What was some of the key decisions that contributed to this incredible growth?
Speaker 3:Yeah, huge amount of growth is crazy hearing it back. The first one was I quit my job, so that twenty K was in twenty twenty. I shut the business down because of covid. My mom was doing my shipping from my parents house, so we were at that kind of like kitchen table business level. At the end of that year I quit my job.
Speaker 3:So I think the first unlock was having me on the business full time. I then made some hiring decisions so I took on a couple of people to help and that unlocked me again to kind of continue to grow the business. And then another growth, big growth decision was moving into a third party logistics warehouse moving all the stock because it just got to the point where my mom was the bottleneck. We didn't have enough room in the house left for all these boxes of socks. There's only so much she can pack and ship and especially as we're trying to move into this retailer wholesale space, they are huge orders to be packing and shipping. So that was a really good step for us to take, moving into a three P L and that that really are growth shot up after that, especially because we could like Invest in Christmas properly and know that we're not having my poor mum at the end of it having to deal with all the orders.
Speaker 1:Was she completely exhausted after covid because of this and I hope you've given her good shares in the business yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, she I think she was. She loved doing it, though. So I remember when we came to make the decision to move into three P L, I thought I'll go how am I gonna bridge this conversation? And she was kind of sad. I think she'd been enjoying being a part of it, but was also slightly relieved as well, because you can see the kind of in. We moved into the warehouse in august so she could kind of see this impending Christmas coming and thinking what are we going to do? So I think she was quite relieved in the end.
Speaker 1:Excellent so I've also got down here that you had a 50,000 pounds worth of investment from a university, which is quite interesting. How, where did you deploy that capital and how did that even come about?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So my I went to uba university of east anglia and norwich and they're amazing for the support they give for students and alumni. They've got their own kind of enterprise center that invests in student and alumni business. So I went down that process. I took a seven and a half K grant to start with, then moved down the process further and pitched to a panel of investors for the 50 K. So that was the like.
Speaker 3:After the warehouse that was the next big unlock of growth for us and we really needed that money because you know, one of our biggest expenses is our stock and I was getting like all my stock ready for Christmas and I'd overordered, really like I was. I was kind of guessing of how much we might need for the Christmas period and you know my supplier was kind of chasing me for payment and I didn't have the money. So thankfully it came in at the right time and kind of taking the risk in ordering that much, expecting to get the investment, I was quite confident in getting it but it paid off and basically the money just went straight to the to pay off the supply invoice. It just sunk straight into stock. But that was really crucial.
Speaker 3:We needed that and obviously all that money that we took over the Christmas period was then reinvested Back into next year, so we haven't needed to take any further funding or debt since. Whether that will change I don't know, because each time it comes around for Christmas, we just need to buy more and more stock. So yeah, I don't know whether we'll need to take further funding in the future or not yet, but yeah, amazing opportunity really. I think it's quite rare. I don't know other universities that offer that kind of experience.
Speaker 1:And talk to me about managing inventory, especially with all of this rapid growth that you've been having so recently. You talked about going into the warehouse More generally. How has that been a challenge for you? Maybe tell us the story about getting to the warehouse level?
Speaker 3:I've been a massive challenge. I think this has been. Something that's been detrimental to the business is we are far too over stocked right now Because we haven't made the right decisions when it comes to stock. And it's not because we don't have visibility of it, because now we're in the warehouse we have visibility of everything from a software point of view because the warehouse have their own stock management system, but it's more about the decision making for future stock. You know what to buy, what designs that we don't need anymore.
Speaker 3:So recently we've hired a freelance merchandiser so she is now on board to help us with our stock decision, because it's become such a huge thing. I was managing all myself, so I was looking at it, thinking what design do I do next? What do we order? We're using excel, and it basically kind of popped into my head one day that I realized that merchandising is its own full time job. Like all these companies, they have a whole team of merchandisers doing all this for them.
Speaker 3:I'm not trained in this, so that was when I realized, okay, we really need to get someone who knows what they're doing and or she's worth a weight in gold already. We're noticing that the decisions we're making will help us so much going forward. I wish we'd hired her last year because we wouldn't be in the position we are in now, which is so much cash tied up in stock. So yes, it is a really important part of the process and it has been a challenge up until now to get the kind of right decision making process. I think particularly around what to buy next and also what designs to kind of Quiet and down or do we double down on that design six doing well, and as we've grown and had so many more designs, the decision making process has only got harder. So it has been really helpful now having someone who knows what they're doing on this.
Speaker 1:So let's get into the technology stack a little bit more. What exactly is it that you're using to run the business at the moment?
Speaker 3:I think we're actually quite a basic example of what tech we're using, because we've kind of gone from the ground up and we haven't gone in for like massive, like enterprise solutions. So we're a good example of using the tech like as you grow, and adding to it. So we started on Shopify, which is a great e-commerce platform, and then everything has kind of evolved around that so we can add different apps in obviously. So there's so many different integrations with Shopify. So we've kind of, as we've grown and had more money to spend, we've then added more apps in where we need to improve either the customer experience or the user experience on the website or whatever we're doing with that. Then I would say the wholesale marketplaces in particular. The tech that they are using is actually pretty good. So Fair is a great example of that. They're a huge American company and have had a lot of investment, so their tech is really good and we just use the Shopify integration there. So I would say that a decision we make in terms of what marketplaces we join next is, if it doesn't have a Shopify integration, we won't use it because it's just too much work for us to do it all manually. So we definitely kind of use the tech in that way.
Speaker 3:We've recently moved to HubSpot CRM as well. So we did have Fair had their own CRM system, but we've now got our own kind of sales CRM system. Like we've now got 700 retailers. That's obviously a lot to manage, so we've now got our own separate CRM system and we are moving into space of using like AI. So chatGPT has been great. Also, in the video space, we have our own YouTube channel and podcast as well. So we do a lot of work there and I think the AI around feeding in one of our YouTube videos and it spits out like shorts that we can use like across social media in seconds is amazing and before you'd have hired someone to do that editing for you. So I think there's some really good things coming out in the AI space that we can utilize as well.
Speaker 1:That's really interesting, and how are you making sure that all of the technology partners that you're using have the same sustainable and eco ethos as you? Because obviously in technology it's a whole different ball game when it comes to tech and sustainability. What are the kind of the checklist that you look for when you're looking at your technology suppliers?
Speaker 3:It's a bit more black and white for us on the tech stuff, because they tend to set like you can kind of go on and see what like credentials they have, and actually a lot of these tech ones are coming out as B Corps now. Oh, that's helpful. I'm seeing this massive wave of companies that you wouldn't expect to be B Corps because you don't necessarily associate them with sustainability, coming out. So like a tech company might come out and say we're a B Corp now and you'd think, huh, that's weird. I never thought of you as a sustainability company, but I guess that's the whole point is that any company should have these sustainable value values as well.
Speaker 1:And finally, on the tech stack side of things, talk to me about marketing, analytics and customer engagement. What are some of the clever tools that you're using in that space?
Speaker 3:So this is a really interesting one because the biggest challenge for us on the marketing side of things is attributing our spend. So we used to use tech for this to try and attribute, like, where our spend is actually going and if it's working, but because of all the changes with iOS, like we couldn't rely on it. So we were spending all this money on trying to attribute our spend and it wasn't reliable data. So we've actually stripped that back and decided just to use the kind of basics on the platform that we get through meta and kind of take a hit on the fact that we're not going to know exactly where that spend is going. But that's just the way it's going. The paid ads are becoming really really hard for us to achieve attribution on. Everyone is seeing that across the industry.
Speaker 3:But we do love using Clavio for our email marketing and I think that's amazing. The segmentation that you can do on this is on the B2C side of things is just second to none. So Clavio has been an amazing one for our email marketing. And then, honestly, we're very old school on our segmentation. On the wholesale side of things, we're back to basics, we're back to Excel on that one, so we're doing a lot of analysis on who our customer segments are on wholesale, and then we'll make marketing decisions based on that. But, honestly, that's just Excel and, to be honest, that's the business owner's dream, isn't it? Just Excel is what you use for everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, from Excel all the way through to the future gazing tech, we're now going to go get our crystal balls out and have a little bit of a conversation about what you're seeing come down the line further along. So you're looking at international expansion potentially. What's going on in there, especially with distribution and your warehousing?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a bit of a chicken and an egg one, because we want to expand into America. So it's. You know, do we get the warehouse and then put the money into marketing, or do we try and get more customers first and then get the warehouse? But it's difficult because shipping is expensive and it takes a while. So it is, we're going to have to make that leap at some point and, I think, move into a 3PL in America.
Speaker 3:But I'm also slightly reluctant to, because all I hear are these stories of how hard it is to make America profitable and I don't know whether possibly it's much larger companies who say you know, you don't expect to turn a profit for a good few years. I feel like as a smaller company we're probably more agile and we'll turn a profit quicker. But yeah, I think international expansion is on my list. So it's America. I think we need a European warehouse as well, because of Brexit is so hard getting that customer experience right and it's also really expensive now exporting into Europe. So European warehouse, and I'd like a warehouse in Australia as well. We spend half our year in Australia. So it from a personal point of view, it makes sense to do that and there is. That is definitely an obvious chicken and egg thing. There is no way we can grow in Australia without operations out there, because just the shipping just takes too long.
Speaker 1:Fascinating. And when you're so, you physically are in Australia half the year and then you're running the business in the middle of the night.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, we work on our own hours. Yeah, it is difficult from a time zone point of view because it's 8pm in Australia, is then our 9am team call in the UK, so we're working kind of into the evening. But yeah, actually it works quite well because it's quite nice, because we'll get up, have a more like relaxed morning. Everyone's asleep and they will just get into work and you know it's very quiet for it, like we're not having any incoming emails or messages or anything from anyone because everyone's asleep.
Speaker 1:So you get a lot more deep work done in the morning and then the meetings and such in the afternoon are quite like the sound of that, and then it's just a barrage and you're trying to go to sleep.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you're like no, leave me alone now.
Speaker 1:And finally, let's just talk about the digital strategies that you're planning for the future. You know we touched on things like Clavio and from Excel spreadsheets as well, but are there any? And you're even, you know you're, you're, you're doubling an AI at the moment. What do you think is the big tech coming down the line that you could really utilize in the near future?
Speaker 3:Well, this is a really interesting question because I've we've actually pivoted into something else other than what we're doing with Bearkind. So, as I said before, with how seasonal we are, we need to flatten out our revenue curve through the year because we're just so skewed towards Christmas. So we're actually looking at, and we've actually recently released our own digital course teaching other business owners to wholesale. So, yeah, it's a really interesting one because it's kind of nothing to do with socks but at the same time, it's all about how we've sold the socks and how the business is going. So teaching others.
Speaker 3:So this has come off the back of our YouTube channel, our podcast. We're like really open and sharing like everything to do with the business, all the behind the scenes. We have a monthly board meeting. We put that on YouTube. So now we're selling a digital course and what I love about this is obviously the profit margins are amazing because once the course is built, it sits on the platform and your only cost is payment fees. So that's, I think, not the future of that kind, because obviously that is still quite a traditional oh well, it's e-commerce, but it is a product-based business. So it's difficult then to implement tech in that other than on the e-commerce space. The product is still a product, it's physical, but I think there's so much more can be done with our online space, the content creation we're really kind of building in public that's what we're calling it and I do see that as the kind of future of e-commerce, and people are being way more open with what they're doing in the background now.
Speaker 1:That's so fascinating here, rather than keeping your secrets to yourself, actually monetizing the lessons that you've learned and it's almost kind of like a COVID style pivoting, only you're not doing it. You're not waiting for a pandemic to happen, but why not get another revenue stream in right now? That's really fascinating. And lastly, what are the kind of risks that you're seeing coming along the line at the moment and what are you doing to mitigate any risk?
Speaker 3:I think just how turbulent the environment is in terms of like everywhere across the world. So a good example is that the earthquakes that happened in Turkey not too long ago are manufacturing in Turkey and thankfully they were all safe. They were in Istanbul. The earthquakes were further away but they were affected. They had family out there, so manufacturing slowed down. They were trying to kind of dive in and go and help.
Speaker 3:But that is a business risk as well. It's hard because you look at it and from a humanity point of view it's obviously really horrible to see, but from a business point of view that is a risk. So we are looking at kind of how we diversify and make sure we have manufacturing elsewhere as well, because that is with a single point of manufacturing, that then becomes your sole risk, because if something happens to that one factory then obviously it's going to be very difficult if you're not set up anywhere else to move quite quickly. So I think it's always kind of being able to assess where your points of risk are, where your weakest point is. If that was to break, what would happen? And I'm sure I mean COVID happened and it was disastrous for people's supply chains. So there's only so much you can do, but that is something that we're considering at the moment. That's very sensible.
Speaker 1:And before I let you go, we have to have you take part in our quick fire round. So are you ready for this? Okay, let's go. So yeah, we've just got five or six questions for you. Will ease you in quickly with a Netflix or Disney Plus, disney Plus, disney Plus. What are you watching at the minute?
Speaker 3:Arrested Development bit of an old one.
Speaker 1:Nothing like an old comforts in blanket in terms of a TV show. And what do you do personally to stay mentally and physically fit?
Speaker 3:Any kind of exercise. I, yeah, we did a triathlon this weekend actually, so it's quite an intense exercise, but just really enjoying having something like really intense. That's not work Incredible.
Speaker 1:I'm imagining you doing this triathlon wearing your brightest coloured socks, as well, yeah, I had to be done. So what is your Sunday morning guilty pleasure?
Speaker 3:Sunday morning is our lie in day. Every other day we're up, like even on Saturday we're up doing the park run. So Sunday morning is just we'll spend a bit, yeah, a bit longer in bed and not rushed to get up.
Speaker 1:And if you had five minutes with the Prime Minister, what would you ask from them?
Speaker 3:A tax break which is really bad. But I just think this is so political. But I just from a that we've registered for that last year and it's just been really hard on us as a business. So I think, yeah, it'd be a case of like, how can you consider supporting small businesses in your policies? You know, I still going to pay my tax, but we've got the same tax amount as the huge companies, so it's. I think there's a kind of real like gap there in terms of supporting small business versus these huge multi million companies. Most definitely.
Speaker 1:And what's the one metric that you, as a retailer, obsess over? And if you were to advise another retailer to do the same, what would it be? The one metric in your business?
Speaker 3:I think, profit, and the reason I say with this is because last year we were really going for revenue growth, which we saw, but our profit didn't increase as much. So this year we're optimizing for profit and it's the most important thing. So a lot of the decisions we've made this year are around optimizing for profit. So we might not see as much revenue growth, but we'll see more profit growth this year as we're forecasting, and I just think that's so much more important. And it's really hard revenue is a vanity metric, so it's really easy to chase after that and then you might lose money.
Speaker 1:Now, that's so true, and profit for you guys is a double win, right? Because then that helps the charity partners that you're promising your customers. So, exactly and finally, what is the thing that you know now that you wish you'd known at the beginning of your career?
Speaker 3:I think and maybe this is more like a personal one for me that it's just really liberating realizing that you don't have to have everyone like you, like it's, and it's, I think, especially in business as well, because you're kind of making decisions that aren't you know. You've got to make decisions that are right for you and your team, that you have to be kind of cutthroat sometimes on what you do with that. You have to say no to people. You have to, kind of you know, pull yourself back from partnerships so you might piss people off, and that's fine, you have. You just have to make the right decision. It can't be right for everyone.
Speaker 1:That's quite an interesting challenge to overcome, especially as a young woman as well. You know, there's this people pleasing mental, mental mentality that often comes to us and actually knowing, oh, you know so what someone doesn't like me, you just crack on and move forward, Exactly. Yeah, Lucy, it's been so wonderful chatting to you. Thank you so much for your time on the podcast today. Thank you so much for having me.