Ep. 34 "From Venezuela to West Virginia: One Woman’s Journey to Change Education" - Guest Sen. Patricia Rucker

As a mother, educator, and State Senator, Patricia Rucker has learned a thing or two about education policy, community, and the hard work it takes to make practical dreams come true! Today she shares with Melvin Adams that as a student she was blessed with a great public school experience, and now in her legislative office, she seeks to make that a reality for all children in West Virginia. She does that by communicating with her constituents and fighting for legislation that provides exceptional resources for special needs children, educational choice, and much more! Listen in on today’s episode of The State of Education to learn how you can be a part of these vital tasks in your state! 

RESOURCES MENTIONED IN TODAY'S EPISODE:

• Check out NWEF’s Know your State System and get access to a data bank of important laws you need to know that impact education in your state! Know Your State System | Noah Webster Educational Foundation 
• Read more about the Red for Ed movement that inspired teachers across the U.S. to demand better funding and pay: About | New Labor Forum: A Journal of Ideas, Analysis and Debate 

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Transcript

Interviewed by Melvin Adams
July 2022

Description
[00:00 to 39:27]
ADAMS: Welcome to The State of Education, I’m excited about our special guest today, Senator Patricia Rucker from the state of West Virginia. Welcome to the show!

RUCKER: Thank you so much. I am honored to be on the show. 

ADAMS: Well, you have very recently accomplished some significant legislation in West Virginia, we want to hear about that, we want to talk about how you got involved in all of those kinds of things.

But let’s start off [with] you telling us a little bit about yourself. Your story is rather interesting. First of all, you’re a first-generation immigrant if I remember correctly. Tell us about that, tell us about your family, tell us about yourself. 

RUCKER: Okay, well yes—I am a first-generation immigrant from Venezuela. My parents came here in 1981 because of a job opportunity my dad had in Washington D.C. And we always planned to return to Venezuela. We loved Venezuela, and all of our family was there. 

Unfortunately, God had other plans. But I will tell you that I’m very grateful for the fact that my parents always spoke Spanish to us and they gave us such an excellent example of giving back. 

Almost immediately, my mom started volunteering in the local public schools where we went. Within five years she was elected PTA president and I was elected student government president. And we always have felt very much involved in doing everything we can to serve back. 

I moved to West Virginia after marrying my husband and realizing I wanted to stay at home with my children so we had to move someplace a little bit cheaper than the metropolitan D.C. area. West Virginia called to us and definitely has been a wonderful place to raise my children. 

I love West Virginia and was honored to be elected state senator for the county and the next county over from where I live—Jefferson and Berkeley counties in West Virginia—in 2016. 

ADAMS: Wow, well that’s interesting. So what in the world got you involved in politics in the first place? What were the issues that [made] you say, “I’m going to run for state senate”? 

RUCKER: Well, education is definitely up there. I’m very passionate about education. I feel it is the key that helped me to succeed in this country and also provided for my family to succeed. 

I was a teacher for a brief period of time in Montgomery County Public Schools, and when I came to West Virginia, I was just really shocked at the differences just over the border. We’re right next to Maryland. It was just such a huge difference in the public school options and in the services available. 

I ended up having to homeschool my children because my children with special needs could not get services I felt they really deserved and I ended up having to provide it myself even though I was not a special education teacher.

And I guess you’d say that was the first seed, really. I wanted there to be better choices. And then later on I was unhappy with my representation in my state of West Virginia. [I] tried to find others to run to replace this person who was representing me, and couldn’t. 

And I guess you’d say that was kind of like the push that God needed to say, “You know what? You should do it.” And I really didn’t think I had a chance, but at the very least I could use the opportunity to help educate more voters and get them involved and get them to care. And the first time I ran in 2014, I lost. And then I ran in 2016 and I won. 

ADAMS: Well congratulations. So tell us a little bit about the platform that you ran on since education was kind of a big part of that. What was your platform? 

RUCKER: If I remember correctly, I ran to bring education choice to West Virginia, to improve our schools, and to provide locality pay in the state of West Virginia. They paid all the teachers the same throughout the entire state instead of county-by-county, which is how most states do it. 

More local control to our local county school boards. Lower taxes—I wanted to do all that without raising taxes because I thought that the government was bloated and that we could find savings and prioritize education among the spending that the state government did. I believe that was my initial platform. 

ADAMS: Well, people like lower taxes, and parents like education choice. And so it sounds like it was a good combination that worked for you. Tell us a little about your overall, general philosophy of education. So when you think of education—let’s put two hats on here for a moment, well you could actually wear three. 

But as a parent, an educator, and as a legislator. So, what are those areas that kinda go across those three roles that really hone down your philosophy of education? 

RUCKER: So that is an excellent question. I do have a philosophy on education that is personal to me as an immigrant. So I should tell you, when I came to the United States, I was 6 years old. I could not even speak my own language. 

I actually had speech difficulties and delays in Spanish, in Venezuela, before we came. So I came here unable to speak my own language—needing speech pathology and therapy. 

And then I had to learn a new language. And the drawback and the delays, you can imagine, had a huge impact on my first few years. And I was made fun of. I had to repeat the first grade. 

And all of those things have an impact that I believe led me to understand how important it was to have high-quality therapy, have high-quality services, and high-quality teachers.

I was one of those students that required the extra time and attention and help. And I am so thankful that at the public school that I attended in Montgomery county, Maryland I received all three. 

And in five years, I graduated from ESOL, and from speech therapy, and got elected the very next year to be the student government president. Just to give you an indication of what a difference it made to get that help. 

I was in honors classes every year after that and really succeeded. And this thing we called the educational system, which is to know how to learn. And a lot of people think it’s the diploma or it’s the certificate. That’s not what education is to me. 

It is that I know how I can learn. I know what it takes for me to memorize things for me to know how to figure things out, for me to be able to teach myself. And I’m so, so thankful for that incredible education I received in the public schools. 

I was even accepted into different charter schools in Montgomery county. They had one that was for the arts and they had one that was for math, science, history, and English. And I got accepted into the English/history one, and into the art one. 

And I could have gone to either and I really debated and then I decided to stay at my own public school and give all my attention to making that public school the best I could. And I loved it—so grateful I had that choice and I had that opportunity. 

It really hurts my heart to know that not everyone receives that incredible experience that I did in public education. It hurts me to know that there are those that don’t receive good services and do not get the help they need early on so then they’re behind their entire educational life. 

Or they’re not taught how to learn and are not given choices so that they feel empowered in the decision that they make. All those things are things that we need to do better at.

ADAMS: Absolutely, that’s great. And thank you for sharing that aspect of your own personal story because it helps us understand how you think and why you are working in the areas where you are to bring changes. 

So when you got to legislature, what were some of the things that were realities on the ground when it comes to education in West Virginia? What were some of the challenges that you saw and felt you needed to overcome? 

RUCKER: Well, I will be perfectly frank, although I hope it’s not taken as me attacking anyone or anything. The West Virginia public education system was very much a model that had not changed in many, many, many years. 

Actually, the Democratic party who had been in control of West Virginia for over 80 years when I got elected, the Republicans had recently taken control. But when the democrats were in power, they tried to make changes and they tried to reform public education. And they actually failed even though they had a majority in the House, the Senate, and the governor. 

It was such a difficult monolith. To take on. And the West Virginia Constitution is pretty unique among other state constitutions in that the way that they refer to the Department of Education and education, in general, is as almost a fourth branch of government. 

As a matter of fact: the West Virginia supreme court decided in a court case (and I believe it was in 1992, but please don’t quote me on that) by the West Virginia supreme court decided that the state legislature could not have oversight over the rules, written by the State Department of Education, that the State Department of Education did all the actual implementation of the laws and didn’t need legislative oversight. 

Which really makes no logical sense. If you’re going to have a body that passes the laws and there’s no way to ensure those laws are actually being followed—what you have is actually a fourth branch of government that is independent and they take our laws as suggestions, not mandates. 

So there’s been a kind of tension between the legislative branch in West Virginia in the State Department of Education for many, many years. And it has empowered bureaucrats to basically do whatever they want to do. 

And unfortunately, although I’m sure there are some that have very good intentions and want good quality education, there are bureaucrats who just care about the power. And they care about protecting their fiefdom and what they oversee. 

And they don’t necessarily root out the things that aren’t working well, where money is being wasted, or lots of inefficiencies. One of the things I remember seeing when I was campaigning for office the first time. I was letting people know that at that time, the State Department of Education in West Virginia was larger and employed more people than the State Department of Education of New York. 

And if anyone knows about the population differences, West Virginia is a very small, very rural state. Our population, unfortunately, has been decreasing. And just one city in the state has more people than our state does. 

So it’s really crazy. That we have such a huge bureaucracy in our state education. And again, they defend the status quo. They are not open to changes and have fought it every step of the way, so that’s what I came into when I was elected in 2016. 

ADAMS: Wow, so we’re going to come back to that. But let me throw a couple of things in there for our listeners. I don’t know where you’re listening from, but what the Senator was just sharing gives some insight into the power structures that relate to all laws and all agencies within states, particularly when it comes to education. 

And so if you want to understand more about your state and the laws of your state, on our website which is nwef.org, if you go under resources, you will see a tab called Know Your State and if you click on there, and put in your state, you’re going to find all of your laws, the whole structure of your educational system. 

The laws related to education and all those important details to help inform you and equip you for what’s going on in your state. So I’m just throwing that in there for free. Because it’s very important when we get involved in education to understand how things happen and why things happen and that’s a good place to start. 

So, Senator, when you got there and got elected, have there been changes in that structure from the supreme court ruling, or does that stand today? 

RUCKER: Just this last legislative session and the state of West Virginia, we passed a constitutional amendment that the voters would have to ratify in our November election that would say that the rules that the Department of Education promotes do have to have legislative approval, just like all of the rules for all of our state agencies. 

If the voters of West Virginia approve it, it will finally make it clear that yes, we do have a say in those rules and policies from the Department of Education. 

ADAMS: Excellent, so that’s an action step that all of our listeners from West Virginia can follow and get more information on—and you get an opportunity to vote on that whether or not your Department of Education needs to follow the rules of the legislature like every other agency, or if they should be able to stay autonomous like a fourth branch of government. 

So let me ask you this, Senator. Often, Departments of Education in the states are driven very heavily by unions, particularly teachers' unions, and other associations and unions. Tell us about that a little bit and is that a major influence in how that present policy was developed? 

And of course, we know that the teacher’s unions are very heavily involved in all of the education agenda. And so I’m sure that some of the things you’ve been promoting, which we’re going to talk about in a few minutes, have been cross-grained with much of what some of your unions have been promoting. But, perhaps not. Would you talk to us about that? 

RUCKER: I’d be happy to. We don’t have unions in the state of West Virginia but we have associations—teacher associations. So of course we have a West Virginia chapter of what is the NEA, called the West Virginia Educators Association, the WVEA. 

And we also have a West Virginia branch of the AFT. So two major teacher’s associations. And yes, they have heavily influenced education in the State of West Virginia. 

They really thrived under the control of the State Department of Education controlling everything. So all they had to do was control the State Department of Education and they could control all 55 counties in our state. 

And it’s very apparent to anyone that lives in the state that essentially anything that the associations wanted they would pretty much get as long as we had the funding for it. No one would really oppose them because they were afraid of losing their elections. They were considered extremely powerful. 

And in some of the rural areas of West Virginia, which is most of the state, they are! It’s not a pretense. They have been very powerful there. The teachers are some of the best-paid in those counties that are very rural and very small. Education is the best employer in that county. 

So that gives the politicians who represent those areas a proper… I don’t want to say the word ‘fear’, but just respect for the type of power that the associations could make in their elections. 

That was definitely the case during the years that the Democrats were in control of the state of West Virginia, and even after the Republicans took control—again, we’re a very rural state, and even though it has become a solid red state, there are still those rural areas where they’re concerned over what the associations have to say. 

Having said that, I could tell you that I ran on my platform that I already told you about and it required change, and it required local control. I knew from the very get-go that I was going to be going against this force. But the fact that I got elected meant, to me, that my constituents wanted me to get this done. 

So the first couple of years we didn’t get too many things through, we did pass a bill to repeal common core and that was the biggest battle of my first two years in office. But then in my third year, I was granted the honor by my fellow colleagues in the Senate of being the education chair. 

So they named me chair of education. I can promise you that the associations did not like that choice. They did everything they could to dissuade the Senate President and the Governor [saying], “You cannot have her as chair. That would be awful. We consider it an assault, an attack on us.” 

And fortunately, my fellow senator said, “Nope, that’s who we want!” and I stayed on. So you may have heard something called the ‘red for ed’ movement. West Virginia actually started the teacher strikes that year because I proposed a bill that was basically education reform right off the bat. 

They called it an omnibus bill. But essentially it was a bill that had my wishlist, and not just my wishlist, I want to emphasize. All of these things are things that most of the states have and we in the state of West Virginia did not have. So it wasn’t like it was my idea. I just wanted to bring West Virginia in line with most other states. 

Also had things in there that teachers had told me needed to be done and school county officials had requested to be done. I can tell you that once the association started protesting, none of those groups who had given me ideas to put in the bills actually defended the bill. So that was a good-learned lesson for me. 

In that bill, we introduced open enrollment in the state of West Virginia, the beginning of a charter school, moving us up to three in the state and could be approved in three years and also a very small ESA—that’s an Education Savings Account. 

So that education omnibus bill was passed by the Senate not once, but twice, and both times the House killed it. I should also mention that it included increased teacher salaries for public education teachers in the State of West Virginia. 

So it could not make it through the House of Delegates. When that session was ending, the governor and the House of Delegates were pressuring us to give the teachers the salary increases that we had said we were going to give them by themselves, without any of the other reform. 

And in the Senate, there were exactly enough Senators who refused to budge that we weren’t going to do it. The session was going to end, and the teachers were not going to receive salary increases. That pressure caused the governor to come to us and agree to a special session where the entire topic of the special session would be education reform. 

And we agreed to reserve the money for the salary increases from the budget—we didn’t spend it on anything else. But we just stood firm. We wanted education reform or the teachers weren’t going to see their salary increases. 

So that’s what happened. We had a special session and we did get some of the education reform, not everything, but we did get some education reform and we gave teachers their salaries with that. 

And the ESA portion did not survive at all. It was a very small ESA, it would have only benefitted 1,200 students so that didn’t survive. But we got charter schools and open enrollment through, in addition to some local control. 

ADAMS: So Senator, you were telling us that in that session, you didn’t get ESA’s and there were things you didn’t accomplish, but here more recently, I believe some things happened that you were able to get done that really put forward perhaps one of the most advanced ESA programs that we have across the nation. Would you tell us a little bit about that? 

RUCKER: Thank you, yes. I’m very, very, very proud of the West Virginia Legislature who last year, in 2021, passed what was (at that point) the broadest Education Savings Account Program in the United States. 

What that Education Savings Account Program was, in summary, is essentially any public school student in the state of West Virginia can open up an account where 100% of the state portion of education dollars will go into the account and the parent gets to use that money for whatever educational needs they feel will fit their child best.

And the reason it’s considered the broadest, we did not limit it to private school tuition, we did not limit it to a particular program or technology. As a matter of fact, in order to ensure that it was as broad and open to new educational opportunities that might come up that we can’t even think of yet—we created a whole scholarship board with the ability and the authority to approve new ways to use that money. 

So even if it’s not listed in the code, if a parent says, “I think this will help my child get a good education” and they present it to the Hope Scholarship Board, the board can approve it without going back to the legislature. 

So it truly is as open and as broad and as free as we could make it and get it through. Now, I will tell you that literally just last week, Arizona appears to have surpassed our ESA, which is awesome. I love competition. 

ADAMS: I do too. But isn’t that what this whole thing is about? Instead of funding following institutions, this model of legislation is saying that funding should follow the student. And the parent gets to decide where, when, how, and all the related details, of how those funds are used for the best advancement of that child. 

That’s why it’s called the Hope Fund, right? It gives hope for so many students that are caught in either failing systems or systems that are just not meeting their needs, for any reason, quite frankly. And what this kind of legislation does is it empowers the parent to make sure that those resources are used for the best good of the student. Is that correct, am I understanding that right? 

RUCKER: That’s exactly it. My vision for this program is to ensure that there is not an excuse for anybody in West Virginia to not get a good education. And let’s be honest, most students and most parents are happy with their public schools. 

The vast majority are having a good experience like I did when I went to public schools. But you’re never going to be able to one-size-fits-all for every person. There are going to be those who are not thriving. And I don’t want to have to look at that parent in the face and say, “I’m sorry I can’t help you.”

ADAMS: Yeah. 

RUCKER: Maybe they don’t have the finances, they don’t have the capability. They don’t know… their child has very unique needs. You can come up with 1000 exceptions to the rule. 

ADAMS: So let’s switch gears for just a little bit here. Because for some of us, I certainly think that this is a wonderful thing because I’m all about giving more options, and more choices. You talked about competition—competition almost always improves the product and drives down the cost. Almost always, in every industry. And it’s no exception in education. 

However, there are those who say, “Wait a second. Every time you take a dollar away from public education funding, you are gutting the public system.” What is your response to that? 

RUCKER: So there just isn’t any evidence for that. I have heard that over, and over, and over again. If you look at the most well-funded education systems in the country (I’m not even going to give you numbers) the ones that are putting so much money into public education and there are just as many stories of kids not getting what they need as there are in areas where they're not funded as well. 

In addition to that, if you give options to students to move out of the public education system who are not getting their needs met, the public schools still keep the vast majority of their money! Over 70% of the money stays in that local public school because they’re receiving money directly from the government and the local tax base that the state cannot touch. 

And they're getting money from all those parents. The parents will go to private school or homeschool or choose other options. They’re still paying taxes in that local county that go and feed the public school building. 

ADAMS: Right. 

RUCKER: So there’s just no way that you can say, “Oh we’re defunding them.” We’re not defunding them; they may not be using their funding as efficiently. Look at what private schools can do for the admission they charge and then look at what public schools are doing with the amount of money that they receive, which is always higher. 

Something’s wrong because the private schools are having outcomes that are better than the public schools. So let’s try to find out what those are. And I can tell you when we get the pressure of competition, when those public schools feel that pressure, that they are maybe going to lose students, maybe they will actually care about asking the questions to find out what it is that’s going on and why their not able to get the outcomes that they supposedly desire. 

ADAMS: Yeah. Well, we know this: good administrators will do that. And really good administrators will take a good, hard look at what the issues are, what the parents are saying. Those parents that are leaving: they’ll be contacting them, they’ll be asking the questions like “What are the issues?”

You know, when there is no competition, there’s no need to ask questions. Because we get the kids and we get the money regardless. It’s a monopoly. And that’s not healthy in any kind of way. 

We’re going to run out of time here. So let’s talk for just a little bit to parents and educators. They may or may not be in West Virginia, but they’re feeling the pressure. They are wanting what is best for the children. And as a legislator, talk to them. 

Because I understand how the legislative process works: you get elected [and] you’re there to solve problems. Okay? That’s why you get elected. And every legislator I have ever met, if people approach them appropriately and have good ideas, they are open to those ideas unless somebody is paying a higher price to [get their ideas heard.]

Now, I see you wince at that. Unfortunately, that’s true too often in politics. And we know that’s how some of the associations get their agenda through. There’s no secret, it’s just how it works. But not talking about the price now—I put that in there because it’s a reality and people know that and it’s there. So let’s talk about the tiger in the room. 

But not that that’s behind us, talk to them about how they can approach their representatives, whether it's the local school system, whether it’s their local representative, their board of supervisors, their city councilman, or their state representative or senator. How can they go about that in a way that their voice can be heard? 

RUCKER: That’s an excellent question. I will tell you that not all legislators appreciate involved and educated citizens. But I definitely do. And I could tell you that there is nothing better for me, as a legislator, than to hear from my constituents via teachers, parents, and involved community members. 

  I don’t really care: I don’t bother looking [to see] if they’re inside my district or outside my district, if you come to me with a problem that you recognize and you want to let me know about it, that’s the first step to the legislative process. 

People wonder, “How do these bills get written?” “Who writes these bills?” well, it’s constituents coming to us with a problem and us trying to find a solution for that problem. And yes, we do take input from powerful associations, special interest groups, and lobbyists—they’re all in the building and they try to get their input and steer… 

But at the end of the day, the vast majority of legislators (you can call them politicians if you want) want their constituents to be happy. The way they get re-elected is that they make you guys happy! So no amount of money, I can tell you, is going to tell me what to do or what to vote for.

What matters to me is that I’m solving the problems that my constituents are facing and helping them find solutions but I need to know what those problems are. So that’s number one. And if you really want to be effective in communicating and getting your thoughts across, be concise. 

And it doesn’t matter if it’s by phone if it’s by email, or by writing a physical letter, I get those too. Tell me what the problem is, and give me your suggestions or ideas. If you’ve done research, tell me the research you’ve done—all of that saves me steps. 

Most state legislators are part-time. They are citizen legislators who have other jobs and they’re doing good work, passing the laws of your state on a part-time basis. The more you help them, the fast and easier they can actually do drafting of legislation. 

And I will tell you that, teachers especially, I have begged teachers in the public schools to please feel free to reach out to me. One of the things that stresses me is how many teachers tell me they’re scared. 

They’re scared to talk to me. They’re scared of complaining about their school or their principal or their school board. They’re scared because their associations literally threaten them if they don’t fall in line. And that is so distressing. I cannot believe that in the United States of America, people feel they cannot express their thoughts and feelings without being fearful. 

So absolutely educators, probably… I mean, I represent everybody, but those private school teachers, I try to let them know they can come talk to me and I won’t betray you. I won't tell anyone you spoke to me but tell me what’s going on so I can fix this. 

ADAMS: Absolutely. And I think that people inside the system know it better than most people that are not. And they are a part of the solution and certainly can be if they will come forward and speak up. 

And so we definitely encourage that with certain parents and citizens but especially our educators because we want things to be better for you. But we want things to be better for our children. 

And at the end of the day, we have to have an educational philosophy and I think most educators out there agree with us here. It’s what’s best for the children first. That’s why most of our educators and most of our teachers are there. It’s because they care, they love those kids, and they will do anything to help them. 

And unfortunately, there are other systems and players involved that can be in the way, and that can be threatening and can cause some problems for our teachers. But the way we fix it is not to go in the dark. The way we fix it is to shine light and bring solutions. 

And so, thank you, Senator, for sharing all of that with us. We wish you well. Thank you for the work you’re doing there in West Virginia. And for all of your colleagues there. And all across the country. We know that that kind of work is not easy, it’s difficult, it takes courage, it takes determination, but we’re thankful for people who do step up and are doing their best to reclaim education—and through education, culture in this country. And so we want to thank you for that. 

RUCKER: Well thank you so much for having me on. 

ADAMS: Any final words you’d like to say? 

RUCKER: Yes! I’d like to say that there’s never a wrong time to do the right thing. 

ADAMS: Excellent, excellent. Alright, well God bless you, and hopefully we’ll talk again sometime. 

RUCKER: Thank you so much.