SpeakLifeAZ
The testimony of Jesus in, with, and through everyday people like us. A father and son who were addicts for over 20 yrs. You name it, WE DID IT, TOGETHER!!!! we used to use drugs together now we share about what God Has done for us to encourage the body of Christ and anyone else who may listen to this that is feeling hopeless and empty. LISTEN TO OUR STORY...and the testimony of others who feel led to share with you.... GOD BLESS YOU....TODAY WE CHOOSE TO SPEAK LIFE AZ!!!!!!!!!!
SpeakLifeAZ
Mandy F. Testimony
What happens when faith intertwines with the challenges of life? Join us as we sit down with Mandy, our co-host Rowdy's remarkable stepmom, who shares her transformative journey and the profound changes she has witnessed through spirituality. From overcoming personal struggles to embracing the power of grace in parenting and adoption, Mandy's experiences illuminate the path of redemption and hope. Her recent mission trip to Greece serves as both a backdrop and a testament to her unwavering dedication to spreading faith, offering a unique lens on how cultural differences can shape religious identity and practice.
As we reminisce about Mandy's childhood in a cherished family home, her narrative unfolds the tender complexities of family dynamics and the quest for belonging. We explore the universal struggles of identity and acceptance, highlighting how authentic communication can bridge divides. Through stories of growing up, Mandy touches on the challenges of navigating different church environments, revealing how her faith evolved alongside these experiences. We delve into the heart of parenting philosophies, shedding light on the delicate balance between nurturing independence and guiding our children through life's hurdles.
Our conversation takes a heartfelt turn as we discuss the intricacies of fostering and adoption, painting a vivid picture of the blessings and trials that come with building a family. Mandy's insights on teaching and career growth emphasize the importance of commitment and dedication, not only in education but in all aspects of life. With a deep reflection on personal growth, faith, and community service, we invite you to witness Mandy's journey, underlined by resilience and a profound sense of purpose. Whether it's through the power of testimony or the celebration of life after loss, this episode is a celebration of faith, family, and the enduring strength found in shared stories.
Today we CHOOSE to SPEAK LIFE AZ GOD BLESS YOU
all right, everybody. Welcome back to the speak life az podcast testimony of jesus and everyday people. I'm your host, eddie, and always with me is my son, roddy jesus what up? Dude, hey everybody how you doing oh man, I'm doing well tell me another ball nerves, are you?
Speaker 2:no, today was a great day man, I paid my phone bill. I'm uh, oh, look at you go yeah dude stepping up I'm adulting Come on.
Speaker 1:Shut up dude.
Speaker 2:Better late than never, man. What's funny is our guest just said that, yeah, your dad's making him pay car insurance and inside I'm like, yeah okay, what's due next week?
Speaker 1:I hear you loud and clear, lord.
Speaker 2:Car insurance.
Speaker 1:Amen, god is good man, I'm excited about this one bro yeah, this is gonna be really good, yeah, I just thought you were gonna be weird having relatives on again last time.
Speaker 3:I had a relative on it got all weird well, it's just weird man.
Speaker 2:I was in addiction and made so many bad choices for so long that that's the past bud. I know dad, but it just. We don't live there anymore we don't, we don't live there anymore. We don't, we don't. But the people that we've been having on, that have been messing with me, were people that were affected by my addiction but they also got to see the transformation yes, that's true, but in the same time there's a lot of stuff that I wish I could have changed and done different I would have should have could have.
Speaker 2:You're right, it's all under the blood, man. We're on to bigger and better things, but if anybody wants to know why I was a little like a ball of nerves, that's maybe why Who'd you bring with you man? Oh man, We've got my mom Mandy. How are you, Mandy? How?
Speaker 5:you doing I'm good, thank you for coming on the show, man.
Speaker 1:Thanks for having me. This was fun. Uh, god made it very clear to us to uh, man, when, when his children say yes, honor them. And so we just yeah, you're, you're a different one. Even having bob on wasn't as as as unique as this one is. You know what I mean. Um, we know you a little bit, we know your history and we know that's good. Um, the mighty woman of god that you are, and we thank you, man.
Speaker 2:We just want to honor you for saying yes, and god bless you, man so, um, just for everybody, all the all the listeners that are watching or listening um, mandy is my stepmom, who is currently married to my father, robert. We've had his testimony on here. It's on YouTube, first video we did.
Speaker 1:First video.
Speaker 2:We did, man, maybe that's why it was a ball of nerves. I've got excuses for everything, dude, no, but it's just so you know. That's why this one, for me, is going to be really special. You saw, roberts, and you recently went on a mission trip and you were like, dude, you should totally have me on so that I can share what God has done on this trip. And when you said that, I was like, yes, it's time, not realizing that you were thinking that we were going to have you on so you could testify about the mission trip to Greece.
Speaker 2:And you will, you, you will we, we do want that, um, but this is, this is bigger than that, um, that's that's why I really love what we get to do and, um, just just this platform, just this opportunity. This is really a privilege. It is, this is really an honor, and not just not just for you, because you're my mom and and what you've done in our family, um, but just to be able to sit down with God's kids and let them share their story. Um, because I remember in Phoenix Community Church that people used to testify. I want to testify. People would stand up and testify about what God had done during their week or stuff or or different things in their family, or kids getting saved or healings. Um, and it's almost like testimonies have kind of been stolen out of today's church.
Speaker 1:The enemy has silenced us has silenced us. Nobody cares, nobody wants to hear your story. All that you know. Maybe I have all these excuses. Silenced us, has silenced us. Nobody cares, nobody wants to hear your story. All you know, maybe have all these excuses what story do I have?
Speaker 2:I don't have a story. You know, we've all got a story yeah, what is the bible?
Speaker 1:full of stories that's full of jesus stories, god stories, testimonies, man it's important man to share our story, even if even if you come out of addiction like us or you've never had an addiction you grew up in the church grew up in the church. We all have a story.
Speaker 2:It's all got stuff.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean yeah, and us doing street ministry? We learn on the streets that then people don't care about bible verses. No, the last thing they want to hear is the scripture some of them know the bible more better than me yeah but what they, but what they want to hear is what god has done in your life.
Speaker 1:And when you build that relationship and you tell them what God has done in your life, it brings down walls where you can share scripture and God with them. You know what I mean. So our testimonies are huge, man.
Speaker 2:So you have. You have listened to a couple of these. Let me just pray real quick and we'll kind of get into it. Jesus, thank you, lord. Man God, I just thank you for this opportunity, lord. Yeah, man God, I just thank you for this opportunity, lord, just to sit down with your daughter, mandy. Thank you, lord. I thank you, god, for what's getting ready to be shared. I thank you, god, that people's faiths are going to be stirred by hearing this story. God, we're going to get calls from other people that want to share their story because of this testimony being shared. Thank you, lord. So I thank you for more family members. Lord, bring them, god.
Speaker 2:I just pray for Mandy right now in the name of Jesus. Thank you, lord. Just, holy Spirit, come. We invite you into this room, god, she's been the pen in your hand. So I just thank you, lord, that you're not done. There's more ahead. So I just thank you, lord, that you're not done. There's more ahead. So I just pray, god, just for her. If there's any anxiety or any nerves, just fall away. In Jesus name, god, I pray. You're just Holy Spirit. Use her words and do what only you can do in Jesus name. Amen, amen, amen.
Speaker 2:So basically, when God gave this to us. So basically, when God gave this to us, it was during COVID and for a few years, we kind of did what we wanted to do and we weren't really doing what God told us to do. We were making videos and we set up a studio in my bedroom. Facebook and Instagram live preach. God's like that's not what I told you to do. Once we sat down and we started doing what god told us to do, which was speak life az um, the testimony of jesus and everyday people. It doesn't matter if you're like dad and you're down there at the car shop today welding and cutting up metal, and or myself doing floors and maintenance and getting ready for Sunday church, or like yourself, man, raising kiddos and doing the mom life. We've all got a story. We're all everyday people. I think the thing that's so cool about this is we just want to know who Mandy is, our listeners. We've got listeners from all over the world. It's crazy.
Speaker 2:Literally Countries One time I showed him and he's like dude, don't show me that I didn't know. There's people in Taiwan and Thailand. I'm like, yeah, man, lord, bring them, but it's cool. And so, with the testimony of Jesus and everyday people, we want to know who Mandy is. We want to know where you were born, what the home life was like growing up. Mom and dad Now we know because you're family with us. But for our listeners, please share what the home was like, how it was like growing up, school, sports, god in the home Even saying that just makes me laugh.
Speaker 2:She was my Sunday school teacher. I used to remember her putting the little cutouts on the purple felt. It's how I learned the Bible people. So this is just this for me. This is going to be special.
Speaker 2:But then so we're working in recovery. Now we work with guys, even in the gals. We know that a lot of the stuff that kind of sends us off course or makes us not make the best choices, or the in celebrate recovery it's hurts habits and hang-ups, those kinds of things. A lot of that happens in our younger years childhood trauma, childhood traumas and stuff. Um, now let the holy spirit lead you. The tissues are right there, but just kind of your life growing up and what it was like.
Speaker 2:But I think, like Dad said earlier, before we started recording, the most important thing we want to capture today is your encounter with Jesus, because there was a day when it was no longer mom's faith, it was no longer dad's faith, it became my God or your God, your Jesus. And so we want to really capture your encounter, because when we encounter God man, when we encounter the living Jesus, our lives change. Transformation is the very evidence of an encounter with the real living God. You start to see people's make different choices, like, like you were talking about, I was in hell and an addiction for so long. Now they've gotten to see the different choices being made, um, so now that that's only God.
Speaker 2:Only God does that, um, but so you're who you are, who you are, where you were born, any of the stuff, your encounter with Jesus, and then afterwards how your life changed after your encounter. And then at the very end, of course we want to get into the Greece trip, but also what you're hoping for in the future, robert. He kind of got into some stuff about these homes, now that the kids we fostered and adopted are getting bigger and kind of flying and going to take the world by the wings. Man, it's like, okay, mom and dad are going to have some opportunity and some time, so what's God putting in your guys' heart for the future?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Amen Sounds good. So what was it like growing up, Mandy man?
Speaker 5:I'm born and raised in phoenix. I was born at uh john c lincoln hospital native so many transplants man I know
Speaker 2:lots of them, ohio. People are so rampant around here I'm like we, oh fuck. We love you Ohio people.
Speaker 3:We love you, just not your football team.
Speaker 2:You just lost some listeners.
Speaker 5:No, it's all right. Yeah, I literally grew up in the same house. My mom and dad, or my mom still lives there. My dad passed a couple years ago.
Speaker 1:Your mom still lives in the same house that you were.
Speaker 5:Oh yeah, wow, so my parents met at paradise valley high school at 40th street and bell really that's where they met and they built a house across the street from there yeah, so that's where all three of us went to the high school and she still lives there. I was just there this morning, yeah wow, that's special. I'm in one house, I know she was just saying, because we always talk about maybe getting land. I would have to scoop this house up and take it with me.
Speaker 2:And I agree.
Speaker 5:Cause I can't even imagine not having that house in our in our family. Fantastic. Wow. Yeah. So, um, I mean, I was, yeah, I was introduced to Jesus early. So um introduced to Jesus early. So I grew up as a Christian. I grew up knowing about Jesus. I like officially asked Jesus into my heart when I was four. I can remember my mom I think she says she was cleaning out her closet and I was. We were talking, I don't know. I was like four years old, so what were we talking about?
Speaker 2:right now Dolls, but I do remember the bed.
Speaker 5:I do remember kneeling down by the bedspread. I remember her, the bed. I do remember kneeling down by the bedspread. I remember her blue bedspread and I remember that we actually we taught, we prayed. And then she says I um walked away or ran out of the room, whatever, singing a song that I hated, of song about Jesus that I didn't like before that I liked.
Speaker 4:So she knew there was a heart change. Yeah, wow, um, she knew there was a heart change.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Wow, do you remember what song it was? Do you know what song?
Speaker 5:it was. No, I mean she does, but I don't remember it at all, Okay. So yeah, Like you come out singing oh victory in Jesus. I can still sing that song. I know Every single verse.
Speaker 2:Page 511 in the red hymnal everyone.
Speaker 5:I have a brother and a sister. I actually have a sister who was born before me. She passed when she was four days old. Oh, wow. Then they had me, and then sister Becky and brother.
Speaker 2:How much time in between? The one that went up to heaven, 11 months. I was born 11 months later, so the Lord gave them me really quick Wow yeah which is good. Some healing in that yeah.
Speaker 5:Yeah, because they had already built the house and so they had the empty nursery and all that. So it was amazing that the Lord gave me to them right away.
Speaker 2:So how was mom and dad in the home growing up? Could you see Jesus? I mean yeah.
Speaker 5:I think so it's a family right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 5:So I think that my family was big at our church and where you guys know me from yeah and so you know a different sprenzel family maybe than I know yeah, but that's real man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's real because a lot of times, like here on a sunday, you see all these people and everybody's good. Yeah, you're like hey, how are you good dude, hey good, and everybody's good. It's like monday through saturday, you're I know you're not like this dude yeah, you just don't.
Speaker 5:I mean it's not bad, it's just. It just is different to real life. Yeah, but okay.
Speaker 2:So as I say that, I mean there wasn't drugs and drinking and mom and dad ain't beating each other, you know, and fighting and that I mean mean maybe there's fights.
Speaker 5:I feel like we didn't have a lot of money. My dad did kind of go from like early in my life he went from job to job. He worked a lot with my uncle and those times didn't always work out. So there was a lot of money, there was money struggles, and so that would cause fights, but it never was hurtful fights, it was just a lot of yelling.
Speaker 2:But that was okay, because we did have Jesus.
Speaker 5:And the Lord. He especially with my mom. You know she was teaching Sunday school. She was the one teaching you on the plan on graph. She was teaching good news clubs out of our house, kids that come over during the week and, you know, do a bible club and she did that at her school one time yeah, she did bible clubs at school too yeah um my grandma did that and so then that she passed it on to her and then, yeah, so anyway, um, yeah, the lord was central, central to our house, and there was just no, there's no doubt about that.
Speaker 5:But it is a family, and so there was there's things you know, but I had a really good childhood and um grew up well. I mean, the worst I can say honestly is that I shared a bedroom with my brother and sister till.
Speaker 1:I was 23, that's like the literal worst I can say that's okay, I was talking to pastor the other day and I told him I was like I was talking to a pastor the other day and I told him I was like you know, he's a young pastor and I told him, you know, you're a big influence, you know what I mean. He's like I don't see it. I live with myself every day and so, even though I think the misperception that people have of Christians is that we're always just this loving, kind person, you know what I mean we try to be, but the reality is we still have life struggles.
Speaker 2:We're still people, man, we still battle with paying our bills.
Speaker 1:We still struggle with things in life. We're not always perfect, even though we strive to be.
Speaker 2:And then, when you get in the family home, it's you do your best to look like Jesus and sound like anybody. There's always things that happen. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:It's never perfect in the home. Mom and dad are never perfect in the home. Mom and dad are never perfect. You know what I mean. And we have struggles, like you said. When bills are getting tight, tensions rise. You know what I mean. People get a little tense and things happen.
Speaker 5:But you know, I think that you, for one thing, I learned how to be a person, because I mean like listening to them.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Struggle through things.
Speaker 5:Yeah. That's good and I learned and through things, yeah, and I learned. And I also learned what? Because we maybe didn't have everything right away, you know or some christmases were tight or whatever. It was um. Or my mom, would you know? I would know she was worrying about the grocery list or something like that I just learned how to be a person and I learned that that's. You know, it's not all perfect and it's not, it's and it's not. It's just that's what life is. It's the daily struggling through things.
Speaker 5:Just because you're a Christian doesn't mean it doesn't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're exempt from it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so you just, we just have hope through it all, Exactly, and you just you know like you have backup.
Speaker 5:I mean the Lord is, your is, yeah, and I don't know what it's like to not live without Jesus. I don't know what that's like. That's not pleasant. Yeah, I've never I've not had to do that.
Speaker 1:I didn't grow up with Jesus in the home. I didn't find Jesus until I was in prison in my twenties.
Speaker 2:You know what?
Speaker 1:I mean so it was. I mean I didn't know any different growing up. It was just that just kind of like you were growing up in church. It was just normal for you, that way was just normal for me. I didn't see it until afterwards, Holy crap. There's another way to live life dude. I don't have to scream, yell, cuss, smoke cigarettes and drink beer.
Speaker 1:I can actually be a person Not saying you're not man, but we all grow up in different ways in life, man, but I think the beauty is that, like you were saying, even in the struggle we have this undenying hope. Yeah, because of the relationship that you had with Jesus. You know what I mean, and did you see your parents like work through their things together?
Speaker 5:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean spiting yelling and stuff.
Speaker 5:They might get mad at each other for a couple days, but they still work through it. Right, I worked through it and we always had everything we needed and my dad always took care of us and my mom always took care of us and, um, I mean, I was able to do everything I planned, everything that the Lord led me to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um this is crazy, because I'm sitting here and I'm hearing you talk about your childhood and then I'm kind of thinking and I'm thinking of mine. I'm like, whoa, you're married to my father and you're married to my mother, so I'm like I grew up and seen this other part that I hope y'all never had to see. Well, you did a little bit.
Speaker 2:You brought it on yourself, buddy, but it's just like. This is why I'm so thankful for recovery and the steps that I'm learning in recovery and how to make amends and daily personal inventories and really tools, bro, to really be open and honest with myself and where I'm at. Because seeing the stuff that I've seen in all the different families and different environments that I've been exposed to, man, the, the daily accountability and daily honesty with being honest with myself, um, it just it's gonna allow me to come back around to my wife, to where I'm not gonna have to use or drink or do this kind of stuff. I have these tools where, when I do feel myself rising up, I know how to use these tools and to communicate. It's the communication is the one thing that the enemy steals from people who are in trauma. They don't talk, they just move right past it and come on, let's go. Oh, that's back there.
Speaker 1:Let's go Stuff it down and bury it.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I don't know if that's not necessarily all just trauma. I mean because yeah, well, I don't know if that's not necessarily all just trauma. I mean because there are things like I'm a, I'm a stuffer and I never went through necessarily trauma like that but I hate confrontation and I hate telling people how I really feel whenever we're in confrontation and so that is um okay, you're not necessarily from trauma, it's just like we have it's hard.
Speaker 1:We have a group on monday nights for you. Hey, we sure do, we sure do Celebrate.
Speaker 2:Recovery's got a group for that Around here we call them courageous conversations and it's really just kicking the devil in the face when he's trying to squeeze his way in there to separate his people. Having that courageous conversation to make sure, because the people is what matters, it's not the stuff, it's the person and staying connected to to each other um, what was it?
Speaker 1:what was it like with you and your brother and your sister? Were you guys close, you guys fighting, argue, you told you told cubba what to do, didn't you?
Speaker 2:I love you, kurt. I don't know. Should we mention that you are two days younger than my brother, my baby brother, so my little brother is uh, born oct, october 12th and Rowdy's October 14th and they both just turned 40. Really, yeah, oh wow. So our ages is, we're very close in age. We're very close in age, yes.
Speaker 5:So my sister and I were like best friends, like joined at the hip. We always say Really supported each other. If she was needing something, I was there. I can like. I can still just like. I carry her emotions a lot of the time yeah. But then right back the other way. She knows exactly what's going on with me. And she's always there to help me fix it, you know.
Speaker 2:So we're just like. Connected, connected. Help me fix it. You know like. So we're just like connected, connected.
Speaker 5:God did a really really deep way yeah and you guys are still like that today. We are yeah, yeah and then my brother and I are seven years apart, so he was really little to me you know, and um, just like my favorite person when he was little, little and everything, and then we've actually as adults, gone through some tough times, um, just uh, trying to figure out how to communicate and everything.
Speaker 5:But we are still really close and yeah, um, really love him he's a keeper, yeah, um so yeah we I mean, like I wasn't very good at like playing, my imagination went more towards like reading. I love to just read and um okay, I want to be a teacher my whole life, and so I really liked the part of playing teacher where you like made the worksheets and that kind of stuff, but I didn't want to actually play it my sister was so frustrated with me because she would want to play barbies or teacher or whatever, and I just wasn't there. I don't know, something about playing.
Speaker 5:It was hard for me to get into the imagination part of it. Plus I'm three years older than her, so I was probably moving out of that yeah, yeah but um, so we that part when we were little was a little tough, I think, for her because she really needed a playmate.
Speaker 2:You know, um yeah, that's a few years in between you and her, and then her and cubbo. Yeah, a few years. We were exactly Different age differences.
Speaker 5:So I mean, but we all got along really well. I didn't fight a lot. By the time I was ready to move out, Cabo was just getting into high school and stuff, and that was also the time whenever I was starting to see Bob and Cubby didn't want that. That whole thing was a real struggle.
Speaker 1:Yeah that was real. Any sports for you in school? No, oh. No, no, any clubs, any activities.
Speaker 2:I was smart Jesus clubs bud. Well, I was in the Bible club because all my friends were. We were all together.
Speaker 5:I was in like NHS.
Speaker 2:Oh, the Honor Society.
Speaker 5:So I had a really high GPA, I was super smart and that kind of thing, any honors Were you honored? Yeah, I took all advanced classes and that kind of thing. And the thing that I think was also cool is that I grew up with the same kids from kindergarten all the way through senior year.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's special. So you still got some friends from those times.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I have a couple of friends still, but the great part is that everybody knew Like, I knew everybody and they knew me, but I really didn't like hang out with them all that much. But it was just when it came to senior year and everything you guys were all together, we were all together.
Speaker 2:You'd all grown up together.
Speaker 5:Yeah, so even though it was a big class, it still was special. At PV yeah, so we all moved from school to school and everything.
Speaker 2:Sorry, need a water buddy. You got a couple right over there. So all this time in middle school and growing up at PCC, phoenix Community Church is a Southern Baptist church for all y'all that are interested Pews, so I talk about it in my testimony that I remember God the Father and I remember Jesus the Son, but I don't remember a lot of Holy Spirit. Emphasis, I don't remember that as a kid.
Speaker 5:Yeah, Well, no, because it was a Baptist church.
Speaker 2:Okay, so that's okay Up until.
Speaker 5:Dennis came. When Dennis came, it was different.
Speaker 2:Things started to change.
Speaker 5:Because he's full of the Spirit. So things started to change and we had a few people who would come and lay hands on I mean I fell out for the first time there. Oh wow, but that was towards the end of us Like we were all growing up then too, so but yeah, no, it was, but it was still a very sweet little church.
Speaker 2:It was, I loved it. I mean, yeah, community, you guys were, we were together. Yeah, we were, yeah, we did a lot of stuff together. I remembermases and we did like so. We did summer stuff together. Man, there was a lot of potlucks, there's a lot of lock-ins, there's a lot of stuff that we did together it was all.
Speaker 5:I mean that because we grew up, because I mean you were like three or something, whenever your dad and mom started coming there and then I remember the first time, though, we saw you and jade was you came to my house to play with cubby. Your mom and my mom set up a play date for you to come over in kindergarten. That was the first time I saw rowdy wow yeah and um and then she remembers that
Speaker 2:who? My mom. Yeah, I have to ask her tonight.
Speaker 5:My mom remembers that's the first time I've heard that, yeah, I'm like because jade was a baby and I remember because I was hanging around with my mom, because I was like my mom's buddy and going out. She was talking to your mom as y'all were getting in the car or whatever, and Jade was in the car seat. She was so cute and I mean look at now. There's a lot of things like that that I have in my memory of you and Jade never knowing that I was going to be stepmom to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah right. The reason why I don't call you stepmom and stepdad is because I don't step on you.
Speaker 1:And they're not half brothers.
Speaker 2:They're not half a people.
Speaker 5:You're my mom, you're my dad. I get that.
Speaker 1:That was my first church, was it? That's where he encountered?
Speaker 5:God. Really it was a really powerful church, in spite of the fact that maybe we didn't have a lot of Holy Spirit.
Speaker 1:Well, I remember going there and singing songs and I remember crying.
Speaker 2:I wasn't a crier.
Speaker 1:I remember crying.
Speaker 3:I'm looking at Jade and I'm like what the hell's going on?
Speaker 1:And she was only like 9 or 10. She's like oh, that's the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 3:The Holy Spirit's working on you.
Speaker 1:And that was the moment that I literally was like okay, I'm done questioning you.
Speaker 2:Because right before that, he's literally saying God, I can't see you, what do you want to do with me? I need to feel you or experience you. I'm a tangible person.
Speaker 1:I know this microphone's here because I'm I can hold it right, I know you're there because I can see you right and coming out of the way I lived life was like okay, god, I need something here. Dude, yeah, I'm not just gonna believe a book and what people are saying. I need something tangible here to know that you're god. And in that moment there was this sensation that the only way I can describe it is like someone was tickling my feet. You know what I mean mean? Yeah, so it was like the tingling sensation of being tickled. Yeah, and I was crying and here's this little girl telling me that's Holy Spirit and I was like and in that moment I'm like he's like.
Speaker 2:See.
Speaker 3:Well, here's what people don't understand.
Speaker 1:I was asking God to give me something I can touch Right, something to know that you're God.
Speaker 2:What I never expected was him to touch me, yeah boy.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean, because I wanted to touch him. I don't care if you touch me or not, I need to touch you. But in that moment he touched me.
Speaker 2:Like I'll touch you.
Speaker 1:And that was the moment that I was like, okay, I'm done questioning whether you're God, but we still got a lot of work to do here, bud, you know what I mean. But that was the moment, man, I'll never forget it that little girl just was like that's Holy Spirit, and I just knew in that moment that God was real.
Speaker 5:Those are the kind of things that happened. A lot, though, at that church, and so many lives were changed in that little place.
Speaker 1:They tried to get me and him to do Buffalo. Nickel, I'm like you guys are nuts.
Speaker 2:I'm not getting that. I think we did dude.
Speaker 1:Oh, we played it. Oh, he didn't sing it. We were supposed to get up and sing it Along with a buffalo nickel.
Speaker 2:There ain't no way you're getting me up there singing.
Speaker 1:I still struggle today, man I really do. I taught a lesson the other day at CR. So did I man 20-minute lesson took me 10 minutes, no eye contact. Read the content I'm done. I'm out of here.
Speaker 2:20 I'm out of here 20 minute lesson took me 30 minutes. Some go short, some go long.
Speaker 1:I don't like being a center of attention. I hate it. No.
Speaker 5:I do.
Speaker 2:Just just make Jesus, bro, Just Jesus, and it's funny cause he keeps asking me to do things. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:He puts me in positions where I have to be in.
Speaker 2:Those are the ones he does and I'm like he.
Speaker 1:Who does it with? And I'm like so he's like he likes to prepare. I prepared one time for Teen Challenge when I had to go there and talk. I spent like a week doing this whole lesson and it was the day before I'm going over my lesson and God tells me who does that sound like? I'm like that sounds like me. He's like yeah, I just had to keep you busy, show up, I'll show up. Oh, that's nice.
Speaker 1:So I showed up at Teen Challenge with no notes and just was like okay, god, I'm here, you're here, let's go. And I got up. I still have no idea what I said, but yeah, god showed up and showed off. But I know, if it's me showing up, I'm going to fumble, I'm going to falter, I'm going to take a 20-minute lesson and make it 10. You know what I mean. But and if it's really him, he's going to show up too. Either that or I'm going to make a fool of myself.
Speaker 3:One of the two you know what I mean. I love you, dude. Yeah, that's the way it is, bro. You know what?
Speaker 1:I mean, I don't like notes.
Speaker 2:That's me, the five Ps. Proper preparation prohibits poor performance. Man, that's prayer, that's fasting, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude, putting your they're having an iPad with their stuff on it prepared and ready Come on buddy. We had this class in Thales Bible College. Was it hermeneutics? Or something like that it's how to prepare a sermon.
Speaker 2:This guy took two extensions. It took me three months, three months dude, two extensions and like $600 to pass one class. You can't stick me in a box. They're trying to stick me in a box, Dad. They're trying to stick me in a box and I'm trying to tell pastor, I'm an evangelist.
Speaker 5:You're never gonna see me preaching on sunday morning.
Speaker 1:I don't need an outline, you know what I mean. And he's like we all and I'm like I could not get my mind wrapped around an outline. I'm like I don't do outlines, I just show up and let god be god. It took me that, yeah he got it done eventually thank you, jesus, cost me a fortune but one class, but I passed that one class.
Speaker 2:So you grow up with mom and dad, great childhood, North Phoenix, same home, same friends. As you were saying, you never really started getting into drugs or alcohol.
Speaker 5:I never really had the opportunity.
Speaker 2:Okay, because the kids that I hung out with.
Speaker 5:I didn't even hang out, I didn't even go a lot of places. I mean, I didn't like I had a hard time with friends. So, I had a couple friends but I didn't have like, not like now.
Speaker 1:You never even got in a fight at school.
Speaker 5:I'm a girl for one thing. I don't think girls didn't do a lot of that.
Speaker 2:Girls can be mean.
Speaker 5:Well, I got in arguments, but not like fights.
Speaker 1:You should have grew up in Mesa, you've seen it all the time Right. A lot of girl fights at TV.
Speaker 5:No, but no, I didn't get no because I was just kept to myself. I was super quiet. You couldn't have gotten me to talk like this, then Really quiet. You couldn't have gotten me to talk like this, then really uh-uh, um I mean maybe in a yeah, even I mean at church, or probably would you say you were shy in school. I was very shy at school. Yes, um, very shy and very self-conscious, okay.
Speaker 5:So my best friend was um, her name was suzy, you might remember, yeah, I know suzy yeah, um, she struggled a lot with, uh, her self image and got herself involved with some boys and a group that her mom and dad ended up moving her to Tennessee. So I lost my best friend in sophomore year and I had a couple other friends. But like had to be like. I just wanted to go to the library and do my homework at lunch.
Speaker 2:I didn't want to have to deal with people cause it was too hard.
Speaker 5:They were. I didn't know how to talk to them.
Speaker 2:It's real man. That's almost like a rejection, almost kind of. She left.
Speaker 5:It was like my friend dude, and I just didn't know what to do at school. And I really didn't know what to do anywhere, because even at church I was just super.
Speaker 2:You had this whole role at pcc. That it was like you had to do. You had to be mandy elaine. You know what I mean?
Speaker 5:it was and I mean that was not hard for me, because I was just being me. But um, I mean, I can see where, like I said, you guys know a different family than I know you know know a different Mandy than I know. And that other people, even like your dad, knows that. Yeah, I was not. It wasn't easy to talk to me because I was just too shy and too really self-conscious more than shy If you could have got me talking but I didn't think anybody.
Speaker 5:I wouldn't think people would recognize me. I didn't think people would. I still struggle with stuff like that. Now I'm a lot better because I'm older now.
Speaker 2:Once you get older, you just kind of like screw you, dude.
Speaker 5:Especially when you hit 40. It's not about hitting 40.
Speaker 4:I'm like whatever, you're not worth it. Man, I can be by myself.
Speaker 5:Now I don't have to worry about sitting by myself. You know, um, and I've been through things now, so, but yeah, back then, high school was hard. I I could have taken those four years and just I wish that there was homeschool back then. I wish there was on online school.
Speaker 1:I would have done much better I wonder if I was never a popular kid. I was always the black sheep of the school. But I wonder if the popular kids had similar issues that they struggled with yeah identity and self-worth and all these other you know what? I mean I just always. I don't know I was always such jealous of those people, but you hear stories of how they struggled too.
Speaker 5:You know I mean, I'm sure they did I just to me.
Speaker 1:I was an island yeah, I was a person, so was I yeah, completely different.
Speaker 5:Completely different than everybody else. Apparent like I just thought I was.
Speaker 2:I didn't connect with anybody I just wanted to fit in I just wanted to fit in.
Speaker 5:I just wanted to fit in, I just wanted to fit in.
Speaker 2:Dude, just be part of the crowd, man I just wanted to be a ghost that's kind of how I was.
Speaker 1:I just didn't want to even just leave me alone.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that was the same way so I had a friend, kim, who didn't like that. She wanted me to be part of things, so she would make me come sit with them at lunch. And I mean, I got a friend group finally and we would, and by the senior year we were having fun and everything. But even then I wasn't totally comfortable yeah I would have just been so happy to go sit in library, but we did, I didn't, I hung out with them and stuff. But yeah, it was hard.
Speaker 2:Sophomore junior year was hard yeah, being a kid is rough.
Speaker 5:It is Kids suck man, Especially teenagerhood.
Speaker 2:Kids are mean dude. Yeah yeah, kids are mean Adolescence. They made a movie about that called Mean Girls. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's real dude. My mom shared stories with me about girls in jail. Girls are mean to each other, dude. Well, girls are mean. I mean, I have mean, I mean I have a lot.
Speaker 5:I have a lot of girls. Yeah, yeah, daughters. Yeah, girls are mean. They're not that mean to each other.
Speaker 2:But girls are mean to them. Yeah, and yeah, girls are mean. Boys are very sweet compared to girls, but um, so you had really good grades in high school? Yes, did you have opportunities to go to college in different places of the country?
Speaker 5:I, I did.
Speaker 2:Really yeah, you had offers.
Speaker 5:So what are offers? But I applied to.
Speaker 2:Harvard yeah, duke, let's go.
Speaker 5:My mom's from North Carolina and I was really into the Suns back then, and so one of the players I think it was Somebody was from Duke. Somebody from Duke, granville? Yes. Granville Hill, that's it and I was just like so I applied there. I got in. Wow, I applied to Liberty University. Wow, because DC Talk yeah, they met at Liberty University. So I was really into Liberty and I got in there too that was my first concert.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you took me to my first concert. I fell asleep at DC Talk yeah, audio adrenaline. I fell asleep. I remember waking up. What would people do if they find out you're a jesus? They're like climbing the scaffolding and sleeping I remember that moment.
Speaker 5:God is good, yeah, I got into both of those schools, I think a couple other, and then I I applied to gcu is where I ended going.
Speaker 2:You know what they would have called you if you got accepted? Well, if you went to Duke, part of the Cameron crazies.
Speaker 5:Yeah, man Crazy. I don't know what would have happened if I had actually gone.
Speaker 2:You may never came back.
Speaker 5:I know I told my mom not too long ago and we've changed our outlooks and I really wish I had gone to Liberty honestly. I wish I had done that because now, knowing how I am, I am such a travel bug.
Speaker 2:I love going places and seeing new things.
Speaker 5:Missions is big in liberty it is um, but I wasn't even into even like just the greek liberty christian school.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh really, yeah, she was just telling me about evangelical base, yeah, I did not know that
Speaker 2:my, my, I just don't for the football yeah one of the one of the sisters is going to Liberty in high school and it's possible for her to actually get college credits and be an overseas student in Greece. Wow, staying with the family while attending Liberty, that's fantastic man. Go for it, val. Yeah, go for it, dude. Live, life, fly.
Speaker 5:Mama doesn't really want to go to that school?
Speaker 2:I know Of course not no stay close to home, Mama. Let her fly, Ma no, I will.
Speaker 5:Because my mom does say that it wasn't. My mom didn't keep me home or anything.
Speaker 2:That wasn't it.
Speaker 5:But it was just, my mentality was not to go anywhere. It was not that I was held at home. I just didn't have the idea that I could go and I didn't know myself well enough, like I do now, to know that I would have wanted to do that and if I had done that, I would have loved it, and I wish I had, but I didn't, and so that's okay.
Speaker 1:Things wouldn't be the same as they were now though no, they wouldn't Exactly, I don't think you would have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you and Rob, no, no, we wouldn't. Yeah, you would have been gone.
Speaker 5:Because I was during college.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 5:And I loved GCU, so it was a good choice.
Speaker 1:We had GCU back then. Yeah, GCU's been around since the 50s, really.
Speaker 3:It started in Prescott. It came down here. It was not like it is now. Yeah, now it's fully. It was on that campus though.
Speaker 1:Really, I heard of them when they started having basketball.
Speaker 5:Well, we had basketball back then too.
Speaker 2:But then it was like Division III Now it's D1.
Speaker 3:Now it's official. Dan Marley when he started coaching there.
Speaker 2:That's when it started getting famous.
Speaker 5:Well, Well and also, the Southern Baptist owned GCU when I went there, so I graduated in 2000. Yeah, when they You're dating yourself.
Speaker 2:Whatever? That's what they say nowadays You're dating yourself.
Speaker 5:I don't care. And yeah, I don't know when he started coaching, but yeah, that was a big deal. And then they sold the Southern Baptist, sold it to somebody, and that's whenever the marketing came in and they changed the marketing on it and it became GCU.
Speaker 1:It's becoming quite a popular school lately. Oh yeah. Oh yeah, we got a couple kids from our church that go there. I met a guy. Him and his mom came to the shop. He lived from Mississippi. They moved out here so he could go to GCU. Yeah, I'm like. Oh, Lord Kenan was just down there yesterday. Really, yeah, she was on a tour down there.
Speaker 5:Get it Because MVCA has a really strong connection with them. They put money into MVCA. Yeah, yeah. They're trying to model MVCA's online program to be like GCU's. Come on. And so she gets a lot of opportunities to meet kids. They bring kids from GCU down and she's in that business program at NBCA.
Speaker 2:Get that money, Kim. She gets a lot of exposure to GCU. That's what it's all about in life is relationships. I know, growing up man, I thought it was all about what you know, but it really is people. It's being connected with people. And then being a's real I know her. She'd be great for this spot. That's really what it is. It's just building relationships. I spent 20 years destroying them.
Speaker 3:Now we get to build them. Yes, Jesus.
Speaker 1:So you go to GCU Wait did you go on the India trip with them? No, I did not. Oh, you did to GCU. Wait, did you go on the India trip with them? No, I did not. Oh, you didn't.
Speaker 5:All right, my mom wouldn't let me go do that.
Speaker 2:Is that why Cubbo didn't go?
Speaker 5:He didn't have any interest in that. I'm sure I was a bad kid, dude, they wanted to straighten me up.
Speaker 1:Didn't you guys meet at Chuck E Cheese for that thing? I don't remember. I remember there was a time we were all at Chuck E Cheese and I think it was for you going on that missions trip.
Speaker 5:Oh, I do remember that when I came back. Oh, when you came back, yeah, Okay.
Speaker 1:I remember Chuck E Cheese.
Speaker 2:That's all I remember, you know what's crazy about that is I just had a conversation with Ron Winterberg, ron and Joyce and I'm going to go meet up with him have some coffee with him next month, man, and he's all.
Speaker 1:Last time I talked to you, you had just come back from india and you were up sharing about what india did for you in front of the church. Ron winneberg's from the church, yeah, yeah, really yeah. I was like I'm like I'm friends with him on facebook.
Speaker 2:I'm like I thought he was from cr, yeah, no, no. Yeah, he's from pcc 30 years ago.
Speaker 1:Yeah I can remember, so this is my first experience right was that church was, and I remember pastor dennis and bob were good friends yeah, they were and I went over to. I went over to pick up the kids one time and drink having there was pastor dennis having a beer watching the game I was like wait you're jesus and you're having a beer. I'm like wait a minute. I'm like how can you be a pastor? You're doing the same thing I do.
Speaker 2:You've got to be perfect. It really messed with me though.
Speaker 1:My first church experience. Here's this pastor and he was there he came to the hospital when Cade was born. This was my first experience of just church and men of God and you know this whole thing. So I didn't. I mean, I didn't understand that men were men just right, yeah you know, to me it was you're a pastor.
Speaker 2:No, it's real, bro. That's people put pastors and leaders on pedestals. I didn't know we weren't supposed to do that at the time.
Speaker 5:Well, exactly, that wasn't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, but I'm like, yeah, that messed with me really bad I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 2:It was like it's real it two that's why I love our pastor so much, because our pastors he could. He could have himself a chorus and be totally good, but he chooses not to. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff that he chooses not to open himself up to, because by choosing to say no to these things, it actually gives you a greater influence.
Speaker 2:It does and so it's one of the things that I personally love. And working in recovery, because everyone's different. Yeah, they got to do what they. They're doing. I, I can't. I can't what he does, or what mom does, or you know what I mean. I gotta do me.
Speaker 1:It's my walk with him and I'm not knocking pastor dennis, don't get me wrong yeah, I'm not saying anything bad about him. I love the dude he was. He was what I needed at the time you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:yeah, but I was just I didn't know that he was the one that brought the holy ghost, because I remember the, the one with black hair before him yeah, pastor ed pastor ed, yeah, and he was a little different, a little slower a little. And then I remember pastor dennis. I remember him shining. I just remember him shining. I think it was because he would be getting in at ball day. He'd be like, ah, he's a preacher.
Speaker 1:You know what I remember the most Give thanks with a grateful heart.
Speaker 5:You can hear him singing it.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm talking about, he would walk around the thing singing it loud, and I can hear his voice Every time I think of that song. I hear his voice singing in the background.
Speaker 5:yeah um, that church, I'm gonna go back a little bit, but, um, when I was so we we started going to that church when I was nine and, um, we had been going my whole life to bethany bible church, which is now called phoenix bible church. Um, and my parents were, uh, like they taught sunday school there. They ran.
Speaker 2:At Bethany. At Bethany, yeah, they did. Is that where grandma, kind of where it was?
Speaker 5:My grandma.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I think my grandma and grandpa went there, okay, but it wasn't like a family church, it was just like that would. Yeah, that was just where everybody went, okay. But they my mom and dad started doing things like running the Pumpkin Fest. It was kind of like an autumn fest kind of thing. They did the Christmas program and they had this cool missions thing they did. They were missionaries, They'd come in and do this crusade for kids all week.
Speaker 5:As a little girl, I had my parents really doing a lot of stuff in the church. We didn't go to church, we didn't go to service, we didn't. I had to go to Sunday school, but like they were working in the church, they were serving in the church.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5:And so when we went, so then my dad, you were a ministry kid.
Speaker 2:I was yeah. So then my dad would do that. He like he'd really go for it, and then he just yeah, whatever, yeah um, I'm gonna watch some football today, yeah, or gun smoke he was a great cook. I love you, kurt. Save some of them ribs for me, bud um, so my mom also.
Speaker 5:It kind of burned down on that, they weren't. Uh, that church is a bible church and so it was, while it's very good, very, very especially like missions-minded church. The Holy Spirit, like you talked about the Holy Spirit not being there. I was like you were kind of down on it oh yeah, to have anything to do with the Holy Spirit. Really. At that time. Wow.
Speaker 5:And so my mom was just looking for something different and they had, and she happened to be on a walk in our neighborhood and saw that they were building the sanctuary at pcc and so, uh, it was that summer and we went in and, um, we went to sunday school and marlene and sandy paquette were our teachers.
Speaker 5:In the back room that you had, it was like in the fellowship hall yeah um, and we and we went to sunday school and everything and I just enjoyed, just remember. All I remember is enjoying being around Sandy and Marlene, and then um, and, and I'm sure we learned a Bible story or whatever. But um, then we went to church and I remember, like I'm just nine years old, a little chubby Mandy, um walk in and the. Do you remember how the lights, the chandeliers were like the gold? There was like a lot of gold everywhere, the, the, the.
Speaker 2:I remember walking in the front walking in the front door and there was like a window, the big window. Yeah.
Speaker 5:The big wooden doors.
Speaker 2:Yeah, everything was so solid and beautiful. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5:And I had never been in because Bethany was just kind of a. It was a huge sanctuary but it wasn't magnificent, like like I saw it. In my eyes it was beautiful and I was just so enthralled with that and just felt so at home. All of a sudden, and my sister and brother they were littler than I was, but my mom, I think she took the cue off of, she felt comfortable, I felt comfortable.
Speaker 2:Let's go with this because my dad wasn't going to come anyway.
Speaker 5:So that's how we started there.
Speaker 2:And that's usually how most people start churches is the mom takes the kids Dad's at home doing whatever dad's doing.
Speaker 5:And that was fine, because then my dad started coming and they both got very involved there and started running things there too.
Speaker 2:But I can remember your dad man digging ditches out in the the field, pulling up wires and stripping wires and putting in basketball courts, and because there was a lot to do yeah, there was always stuff he was doing.
Speaker 1:I always remember the old man who took care of the yard chuck and smoked cigarettes rolled up in his feet.
Speaker 2:How would the church look at him nowadays?
Speaker 1:I don't ever remember him coming in the sanctuary I always remember him outside.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean Cutting the grass. That was a big property.
Speaker 1:I also remember doing house hopping. We did a dinner thing when we'd go to one person's house For a free dinner, regressive dinner yeah, that's what it's called. Wow, I remember that that was the most For me. That was so cool.
Speaker 2:I'm at a prison. You know what I?
Speaker 1:mean yeah, and doing this house, hop, it was so uncomfortable you know what I mean it really was. I'm like I don't know none of these people.
Speaker 2:I'm going to their houses. You know what I mean, but it was also something different than I was used to.
Speaker 1:It was kind of cool but uncomfortable at the same time.
Speaker 5:You know what I mean.
Speaker 5:It was just all family kind of good experience for for a kid growing up, such a good experience, what I wanted our kids to have. But that just doesn't really seem like it. I can't find a church like that. Um, that is not, that's just like that. You know, we found a good church, but um, yeah anyway. So I don't know what made me think of that, but I just remember feeling so comfortable there and then, like I said, marlene and sandy made it. I mean, I'm still. I just was texting them because they're the ones that got our Miley, our foster that we have now into our life, so we're all super connected still.
Speaker 3:You know and so what?
Speaker 5:like what? 30 years, almost 40 years Relationships.
Speaker 1:Their house was one of the first houses we stopped at. On that food thing yeah, yeah, I remember that and they're still there, are?
Speaker 5:they Well, that house actually burned down. The fire started but, they rebuilt it, but it's the same property.
Speaker 2:Wow, it just shows you man Addiction. I've moved four different houses and prison stints and moving and losing and moving.
Speaker 1:We counted one time how many schools Cade and Kai were in.
Speaker 2:Oh God, by the time that we got to queen creek and it was like 10 schools and like, yeah, they never were one place yeah they never had friends that they could have from year to year right. They were constantly.
Speaker 1:I want to tell we got to queen creek, that we actually got our act together. You know what I mean. Yeah, yeah, better late than never, buddy yeah, that's what they say now I'm tired and can't really enjoy it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's what they say Now I'm tired and can't really enjoy it.
Speaker 2:A couple more years, bro. You're going to be blessed, dude. Get out of there, rick, go Go. It's coming, dude. All right, so GCU how was college for you?
Speaker 5:So I loved GCU. Okay, I loved the freedom of learning what I was meant to do because I am just like to the core, made to be a teacher.
Speaker 2:Yeah, everything about me as a teacher. Well, you literally fostered and adopted these kiddos and homeschooled them.
Speaker 5:Yeah, well, that's just. She's a teacher me the best life in the world, yeah, now you get paid for it, right.
Speaker 5:But I was like I knew from the time I was in first grade I wanted to be a teacher and so to get, and GCU is really good, has a really good college of education, and so I was going to the right place and then I made some really good friends there and I just really loved the campus. I loved times because I still lived at home and so sometimes I could take my grandma's, use my grandma's car to go down there. Sometimes they use our car. I didn't have a car. I'm like, oh, we didn't have like money to do that.
Speaker 2:And my mom had the philosophy which I love, this philosophy. But I've kind of come up against.
Speaker 5:Bob on this one, that school is your job when you're a kid, and I fully agree with that, because school's hard, you know, even if you're a smarty like I was, it doesn't matter. School's hard, it's full time. And then when you get to college, it was the same for me. So, my mom or she would drive us sometimes. So I loved the times my mom drove me to school, because I you said you're coming up against it.
Speaker 2:Does that mean like with levi levi's working and he was going to school?
Speaker 5:so your dad has the philosophy that as soon as you get your license you pay for your own insurance. So you better get to have to get a job because insurance is expensive so levi had to get a job. Gallery did not like. I'm telling you gotcha.
Speaker 2:So you agree with mama? No, we're gonna take care of these kids. Let them get the best grade. Let's take their distractions, their responsibilities off their plate. I don't know which one's better man.
Speaker 1:I think Maddie's is how well do you want your kids to do in school if they're so worried about a job?
Speaker 2:Job and working and paying bills.
Speaker 1:Something's going to suffer.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Either the job's going to suffer or the schooling's going to suffer. You know what?
Speaker 2:I mean, well then, they better be doing the best dang schooling that they can, you know what I mean Sound like your dad. Yeah you go, boy, apple, don't fall too far from the tree, you're literally leaving your voice out of the way.
Speaker 1:Well, you have to think about it. If you're going to get your kid a car, you're getting them the car. Then you're getting them the car, then you're going to expect them to be the responsible one To pay for it.
Speaker 5:Well see, like in our case, the kids bought their own cars too, oh nice, Well then, yeah, pay for that sucker yeah. So, like Levi, you know he's gone and he's bought his own car. He paid it off. My brother-in-law helped him pay it off.
Speaker 2:He's got subs in there, bro. He's right, he's got a brother-in-law.
Speaker 3:Yeah, becky's, oh yeah, becky's husband.
Speaker 1:Bob's got a brother. I never heard about this guy, her sister, my sister's husband.
Speaker 5:We missed a whole chapter. He just failed to talk about that. He brought you up, but not the mysterious brother, no, and Valerie, she's paying, making payments on her car. Yeah, it's the car I drove over here today, but so they have bought their own cars because they wanted to Amen, but it's also out of necessity, I mean we have a lot of kids and a lot of places to go. Everybody's going a different way. Yeah.
Speaker 5:But, whatever it is, I would love to just pay their insurance and let them just do school. Yeah, but that it is. I would love to just pay their insurance and let them just do school, but that's not how it is in our family. So, because I submit, to what?
Speaker 1:Bob wants and wants to do, and I be careful what that ends up.
Speaker 2:I just told you I paid my phone bill in next week's car insurance we, we made the.
Speaker 1:We made the mistake of raising kids yeah, they didn.
Speaker 2:They didn't raise adults.
Speaker 1:Not raising adults. We raised kids and now we're stuck with three adults.
Speaker 2:You're not stuck with them. God's freaking, doing stuff in me and changing me. I know I'm praying bud. Believe me, the girl's coming man.
Speaker 1:Jesus Lord save me. Make her wealthy Lord.
Speaker 2:Give her money, God, I'm going to spend it. Let her have a home and all that stuff I hope she's not listening right now. Oh praise Jesus. I give him a hard time but it doesn't bother me at all, man, you know what?
Speaker 1:I mean God is good. We had this one pastor who would get on my butt?
Speaker 2:dude Like when are you going to?
Speaker 1:make this kid get a job. I'm like, when are you gonna make this kid get a job? I'm like, if you knew what the dude did at home. I'm like you cannot put a price tag on a guy who does your shopping, cooks dinner, cleans a house. I mean we would pay somebody good money to do that dog you know what I mean. So it's like you, but you can't get these men To me. Men are frustrating, they boy, they're just frustrating this whole male macho. Gotta provide.
Speaker 2:It's like gotta have my own.
Speaker 1:It's like raise your family, leave my family.
Speaker 2:I know me, and the last thing that I need is a little place by myself alone.
Speaker 3:Right. Heck no, I do not need that, I need people.
Speaker 2:Like the job he has now, right I get that it's God knows what he needs.
Speaker 1:How long ago A couple years and God's giving you just enough.
Speaker 2:Give him just enough money and that's how it is dude Just enough To take care of what he needs to take care of, Because if he had more, he might do something stupid.
Speaker 1:Right, you don't want to push your kid to tempt him to do something stupid when he's doing just fine.
Speaker 5:When he's fine. Yeah, well, and actually we did that with Sally because she couldn't find a job. There wasn't a. It's a really difficult economy market right now, especially for a 17-year-old.
Speaker 2:It's getting ready to get a lot better.
Speaker 5:It is but a lot of the jobs around where we live where she can get to on a bike or whatever. You have to be 18. So I talked to Bob into letting her be our housekeeper and so she does all our housework for us.
Speaker 2:She doesn't have to clean no more, so my floors are clean again.
Speaker 5:But that is worth it to me you know, to have her do that.
Speaker 2:It's a lot of work. It's a lot of work, it's a lot of work.
Speaker 5:And she squeezes it in between school. I mean she's doing the same thing she would do if she was going to work.
Speaker 2:She's still doing the animal thing. She still want to do it.
Speaker 5:Yeah, she's going to go to West Meck next year and then she'll go to Pima Medical and then I kind of want her to go to GCU and get her be a vet, but she's not sure if she wants to put money into college and all that. The Lord will show up.
Speaker 2:The Lord will lead her. All those kids know God man. All those kids have a relationship with Jesus, and a stronger one than I can say I was at that age. Even though I grew up in the church, I don't remember a relationship with Jesus. It was religion for me. I never had that encounter man. It was so personal.
Speaker 5:You tried, though, man, you went forward a lot.
Speaker 2:I'm getting saved this week I'm getting saved just shows you what kind of kid I was. People he was a wonderful kid I was a ham.
Speaker 5:He was also really annoying that's because you're like my brother's age.
Speaker 4:Yeah, get away from me rowdy, that's because you're like my brother's age yeah get away from me, rowdy.
Speaker 2:There was this one time, though, I remember um, this is later.
Speaker 5:I don't think I was going out with your dad yet, but you and jade, we were listening to my mom tell a story at church. We're sitting that where the fireplace was at church, okay, and jade sat down on my lap and you came and sat right next to me and I had this like over. I like maybe 18, 17, 18.
Speaker 2:Okay, so I was like 10, 11. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5:Overwhelming feeling of we belong together. The three of us belong together. Wow. Really weird, because I had no.
Speaker 2:You didn't know At all, yeah.
Speaker 5:I just remember that. I just remember that. So I think I remember a lot more about you as a kid at church than you realize I do, and that you maybe even remember just because I'm older than you are, but I was a kid growing up with you. You know I mean even say about Jay. We grew up, we grew up together and then I started babysitting her and then, you know, raised her. I did yeah.
Speaker 2:So anyway, gcu, yeah, grew up together, and then I started babysitting her, and then I, you know, raised her.
Speaker 5:I did yeah, so anyway um yeah, gcu yeah, so I was just a, I mean there I had a lot of friends, I did make friends I learned how to make friends there um. We all had one mission be teachers yeah you. You know, when you get into college you're with your cohort the whole time, so you do everything together. Okay, I also got to do a ton of um, because they make you go in and do, uh, what they called practicums back then.
Speaker 2:It's just basically interning in the classroom yeah, put into use what you were learning right, good, but it's all down in the alhambra and pendergast district which is the hood yeah and I was oh yeah I was doing. I remember you going.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I was doing um you know real work in low income school. Yeah, I remember that I had not had that experience before and, um, you know, in places that maybe weren't that safe that I was going into and I had, and I had no idea I was not. I was very clueless. I know my mom and dad were, you know, aware, but I was just doing what I had to do to get through school and get the grades I needed to get and everything, but I loved it.
Speaker 2:How old were you? 19, 20?, 18, 19, 20.
Speaker 5:18, 19, 20.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 5:Wow, yeah. So so here I am. You know, super naive, super well taken care of sheltered and everything, going into these neighborhoods that were dangerous neighborhoods and going into these schools that were locked down.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, guns Fences around on the ground.
Speaker 5:And just doing what I had to do to learn how to be a teacher, and I loved it.
Speaker 1:Were you aware that it was not a safe place to be? Yeah, I was, I was and I was learning.
Speaker 2:I mean how to keep myself safe? How did the kids treat you in those areas, in those schools?
Speaker 5:well they're. Most of them are little, because I was in elementary education major so most of them. I didn't ever go higher than eighth grade with anything, but they were all very. One thing I've learned about kids in title one schools is they're really respectful of teacher and I don't think they are so much in New York. I know there's a lot of change.
Speaker 2:Back in the day when you were doing it, they were.
Speaker 5:But it set me up for my job that I ended up getting, so it was a really good experience. The Lord knew exactly what he was doing. And I loved every minute of all that. Anytime I got to be in the classroom was just so fun, so great.
Speaker 1:Any kind of mission stuff while you were there? No, Local or serving opportunities, anything like that that they made you do.
Speaker 5:They didn't make us do anything like that I did with church.
Speaker 2:Oh, you did go on missions trips with the church.
Speaker 1:One to Mexico. I went with my cousin Linnea, Because we met this young lady at Identifree, Not the one.
Speaker 2:I went on right or yes.
Speaker 5:No, you didn't go. It was with Living Streams, oh, okay.
Speaker 1:There's this ministry that we went to called Denefri, and one of the young girls that you were praying for was a student at GCU and part of her thing was to go there. Go to the ministry and serve, and serve for the ministry. So and serve for the ministry.
Speaker 5:So back then at GC, like I said, it was more owned by the Baptist and by the Baptist. It wasn't mission-minded like it is now. I know that, even like chapel, you had to go to chapel. But you had to go to chapel, nobody went to chapel, that kind of thing. So it was a good thing. I was a Christian and I was saved. Oh, I actually. Oh yeah, never mind.
Speaker 2:Or was it still just religious for you at that point? I was just being mandy who yeah, she's listening to her heart, which is a little girl. This is what I do yeah, and so it wasn't.
Speaker 5:It wasn't that I wasn't saved it was just a little kid version of being saved yeah, um, it's real man yeah.
Speaker 2:The unfortunate thing is now there's 60-year-olds that are still living that little kid version.
Speaker 5:Yeah, exactly yeah. So I loved it, yeah, and I.
Speaker 1:How many years did you do All four Really, I got my bachelor's degree Nice.
Speaker 2:Oh, I thought you did a master's.
Speaker 5:I haven't got my master's yet.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 5:I've done half my master's at Liberty online.
Speaker 2:Nice man, it's coming.
Speaker 5:Yeah, it's just not time. I don't have time to do that right now. Yeah, it's a lot.
Speaker 2:Trust me.
Speaker 1:It's why I'm not in fifth year. Yeah, four years is enough, dude. Four years is a lot, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think it'd be cool man to say I got my master's degree in theology.
Speaker 1:Yeah, enjoy that 50-page.
Speaker 2:That's the thesis and it's 150 pages.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you also Gotta do what 10 page, 12 page Research papers?
Speaker 2:That's for all the Masters. Yeah, there's a lot to it. It's the big boys college. Yeah it is.
Speaker 1:That's where people Got free time on their hands.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's really what it is, man he got his bachelor's In theology.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I know yeah.
Speaker 2:Got a cool little plaque in him, surrounded him. Yeah, good job, yeah it was a lot.
Speaker 1:I understand now why churches and stuff like that want someone that has a paper like that. I mean I always thought of I mean, it's just freaking paper. Just a piece of paper, but it's not but there's a lot in it there. There's the well, it's not even that.
Speaker 2:It's the commitment, so true.
Speaker 1:If you're willing to commit to a four-year. You know, piece of paper that shows dedication, it shows commitment, it shows a lot of things that people on the outside don't see. They just see it as a freaking piece of paper. You know what I mean, but now, being part of it, I see now why that's important, because there's a lot, the commitment, the dedication being part of it.
Speaker 5:I see now why that's important because there's a lot the commitment, the dedication, especially going back when you're an adult, I think, like in my case, I came straight from high school into college, just went through. It was just more school for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you were already in that habit.
Speaker 5:And I had that goal of being a teacher and so that's what I had to do in order to be a teacher.
Speaker 2:But to go, yeah, to go back.
Speaker 5:After 20 years of addiction, I'm gonna go in the bible college, and then not only all the trauma and addiction, all that, but just the fact you have a job and you have a family you're responsible for to to go, and that's why I haven't gone back and got my master's, because there's life.
Speaker 1:That's the reason I haven't finished my bachelor's, so you know, yeah, get it, buddy, it's not easy.
Speaker 5:This is the year.
Speaker 1:I like. So we went recently. We went to online. Right, I don't learn that way, man yeah. I need to come and sit and have a teacher and let's do this. You know what I mean. Do an online thing. I'm over here cooking dinner. I'm over here cooking something right, I'm going to the bathroom. I'm not even paying attention, you know, to the bathroom, I'm not even paying attention.
Speaker 2:I don't learn that way, Pastor Abel. You hearing this? I don't. It's real. Everybody's different man. I can cheat that way too, oh my. God, I'm going to cheat in Bible college. That's going to do me great.
Speaker 3:I love you. That's the reality, bro.
Speaker 1:How bad do you want to pass? You know what I mean. You got all the papers right there. Nobody's there to hold you accountable. You know what I mean. It's easy to do bud. Not that I did it, but it's.
Speaker 2:I was like it's why we did the honor code, man, To hold you to it, bud I just enjoyed the person going to class. It's different being in class with people. It is.
Speaker 1:Plus, you get to ask the teacher questions. You know what I mean. That's why you got to send an email. I hate emails. I don't do emails at all. You know what I mean. So to have that interaction is just different for me. I like to have that interaction. You know what I mean. So it was hard. What was your?
Speaker 2:GPA. Did you graduate with your teaching degree?
Speaker 5:I had a 4.0.
Speaker 3:Damn man Perfect and I did graduate with my teaching degree.
Speaker 5:And I remember walking down. My mom took me to the Department of Education downtown.
Speaker 2:It's what mom did. Right, mom was a teacher, yeah.
Speaker 5:No, she was just mom and she was called by the Lord to be an evangelist. Wow. And so that's what she did. And she was called by the Lord to be an evangelist. Wow, and so that's what she did.
Speaker 3:And she does still Wow.
Speaker 5:No, but I remember because you know you go to college, you get your degree. So I had my bachelor's degree, but that doesn't make you able. You have to go and get certified to teach. So you have to go to the Department of Education and back then now you just send your stuff in education and and back then now you just send your stuff in and then they let you know it's in a portal and all that stuff.
Speaker 5:But back then you had to walk in, you had to give them all your, your, your transcripts and all that stuff and then fill out the forms and all that. So you spend a couple hours there work, going through their process, department to department and all that. And then I walked out and I had my certificate and I oh my gosh, I looked at my mom like I'm a teacher, mama it's official.
Speaker 5:It was crazy like I mean all that hard work man all the hard work that I didn't consider hard because I school is easy yeah, I did not consider it hard, but the real reality that now I was the teacher yeah you know, and I was no longer the student yeah I got to go do what I know I want to do and when I'm good at it and I already knew I was yeah, you are and so it's just a huge moment and with my mom it was amazing to be there with my mom and for her you know um.
Speaker 2:So I just I remember that it was a really good day you said that your mom was the one that was teaching me. But even when I was a kid going to that church, I remember you teaching I'm sure I was teaching.
Speaker 5:Oh yeah, Because I started teaching you were teaching music.
Speaker 2:You would teach the Sunday school, right, my mom. You would do a lot.
Speaker 5:I remember my first teaching there was when I was 14, and they let me teach preschool, vacation Bible school. So I taught Jade that year. But I'm oh yeah, I'm sure I taught you at some point, because at one point during that time I was like Dennis put me in charge of the whole children's church Because there just wasn't. You know, there wasn't enough. People who would say yes, yeah.
Speaker 3:I remember you being in charge of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I remember doing the kids place. You were the one that was up there leading it all and everything.
Speaker 5:I remember you doing the sign language teaching and all that yeah vacation bible school. I always got yeah, you always got it. You were great at that. But see, I was practicing being a teacher and the whole time I mean, I'm just, I'm literally born to do that.
Speaker 2:God was preparing you for it, yeah yeah, give me lots of opportunities.
Speaker 1:I didn't even know it. Yeah, would you say it's really good. Would you say the feeling that you had was, was it like, not only just like a sense of accomplishment, but my dream came true? You know what I mean?
Speaker 5:Like oh my goodness, now I get to do this. Like I did it, like not that I didn't think I couldn't Cause, like I said, I knew.
Speaker 2:You already had. You already doing practicum in the hood.
Speaker 5:That's. All you have to do is just get good grades to get the degree Right. All you have to do is just get good grades. To get the degree right, you just have to get the grades pass the classes. But that they would, let me do that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 5:I have the same feeling with kids. I remember when the big ones were little Levi, val and Sally were little, and Kenan actually too. I had all four of them.
Speaker 3:They're actually going to. Let me have these kids.
Speaker 4:Yes, I would be like does anybody know I'm here? Like they might know that I have these?
Speaker 1:kids and I'm responsible here because I just a kid I still feel like a kid, yeah I'm with you there. That's awesome what was your? What was your first teaching gig?
Speaker 5:I taught at palomino elementary in the square, yeah it was square. Yeah, oh wow you had the another, you had the gray honda uh, yeah yeah, you had the gray honda so that was uh, I, I got that job this was around the time where you were starting to date dad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a whole other piece.
Speaker 5:Yeah, it's a whole thing so I got, so I I got. That whole summer I went on interviews in paradise valley and I knew I wanted to teach in paradise valley, just because that was all I knew. And I didn't want to have to go down to Alhambra, even though I had connections, especially in Alhambra, because that was mostly where I was.
Speaker 5:I didn't want to drive and I didn't have a car yet because I didn't have a job. So I just nobody was taking me. I was all summer, nobody was taking me. I was all summer, and then so I went on this interview at palomino and I messed it up because I had said I because I had taken two years of spanish. So I went on.
Speaker 5:I wrote on there that I knew a little bit of spanish, I knew and I did say I knew a little, but they like started talking to me yeah, they expected you to be able to know it and I couldn't do that.
Speaker 5:I think no compendia yeah I think, I saved it because I had a really good idea for a lesson plan and I pulled that one right out of you know where so I'm like um. So I was able to get that job and the part the teacher that I had student taught with was, um, mrs collie, your first grade teacher and she told me because she had taught at palomino. And she told me when I called her and told her I got the job. She's like, if you can teach at Palomino, you can teach anywhere. Wow, and it's the absolute truth.
Speaker 5:Wow, she, it's a, it's a hard.
Speaker 2:It's a rough one yeah 98% Hispanic.
Speaker 5:The rest of the kids are strung out, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know, we lived right there. I used dope with some of their parents, it was.
Speaker 5:And I had some and you know, back then there wasn't a lot of diagnosis of ADHD of mental health in children, like illness in children. So I had some really, really rough kids who really could have used medicine or something else. Yeah, at least that going to therapy, going to OT speech, like things they needed help. And there wasn't even like special ed was really tough there. Yeah, they didn't have that available back then, and or even I didn't know. Now, now that I've been through, foster, foster care.
Speaker 2:I've got a lot of tools did. Did you, as a teacher going through GCU, get any training for that, those kind of students you?
Speaker 5:get one class on the law that kind of governs special education. That's all you get, because if you're not a special ed major, then you don't. Really you're not allowed to uh. Like I didn't learn to be special ed, so like that wasn't to uh. Like I didn't learn to be a special ed, so like that wasn't my uh. My certificate doesn't allow me to teach special ed yeah.
Speaker 5:So if you're not allowed to teach that, then you don't get to touch it. You can, you can refer kids, but you don't get to do that teaching wow wow which stinks yeah it's like now I have kids that have special education issues, and that's why I teach them at home, but all it takes is learning how to do it. You know if you're a teacher.
Speaker 5:you're a teacher, you can teach them what to do. That's right. So anyway, I remember one kid that would. He would run out the door every single day. He was just a runner and he would just up and flip out on me and run out the door, wow, and we were a locked campus, thankfully, so he couldn't get off campus, but I'd have to call the vice principal and say michael's running again yeah, because you got a class full of students you can't leave and go chase them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5:And one of the years there I had 33 students, and out of them, the 29 spoke spanish only oh yeah, that was another thing I learned learned Spanish quick, really good kids.
Speaker 2:You ever have any kids that you've taught. Come back to you and hey, mrs or Ms Sprinzel.
Speaker 5:One of them found me on Instagram. She was from Serbia and her family came here as refugees and she remembered me and she found me. She just got her doctorate, actually, wow.
Speaker 2:That's cool.
Speaker 5:So she's. Yeah, it was great. She was a great kid. I had a lot of great kids, a lot of kids. I remember they taught me so much. You know they would. They would teach me I was supposed to be like speaking English in the classroom, but they'd be teaching me Spanish you know, they taught me how to.
Speaker 5:I came out of GCU I was really good at some things and really not taught how to like teach reading, yeah, and so I had to learn how to teach reading, so I had a really good principal there that helped me along, and how do you teach reading? By the vowels and the constants and so back then I mean, you teach reading.
Speaker 5:There's a lot I'm just curious if my teacher spelled miserably yeah because there's like a, there's like two schools of thought and I learned that you teach it by teaching them whole words and that they learn to like recognize the words as they go along. Well, that's just not true.
Speaker 5:They have to learn the sounds yeah, you got to especially when you have kids with maybe have learning disabilities or they just have so much going on at home that they don't have the brain space to learn how to read because they maybe didn't eat breakfast or lunch and maybe not dinner last night you know, so um so I learned a lot about traumatized kids there and what to do. I had to refer one little girl because she had bruises on her legs, so I had to get dcs involved yeah um that's hard yeah but I loved it
Speaker 5:I loved working there so much and I would never trade those.
Speaker 1:I worked there seven years and I would never trade those seven years you ever hear, like what pastor will teach sometimes and he'll use like the word therefore, you know, I mean, and he'll be like this word right here and I'm like didn't know that. I mean it's like this word is telling you that because of what was said, pay attention like you never learned that never understood that
Speaker 1:you know, what I mean and the way that he just takes these little words, that just common words, that we know, yeah, but explains to you in the middle of a sermon. Hey, this means pay attention to what's coming, or what was previous of it Previous is polluted by, and I'm like Never knew that. English 101.
Speaker 3:It's always good stuff.
Speaker 2:I'm like damn.
Speaker 1:I wish I would have.
Speaker 3:You missed that class bud.
Speaker 2:You missed that one. I did this reading class. Why do I need to go to English? I already know it.
Speaker 1:I hated reading class, but you had to take reading class. I don't know how I passed it. Maybe the teacher was just like get this dude out of here. Like it came time for book reports. I'm out. I'm not standing up in front of people and reading a book report. I did those days.
Speaker 5:Yeah, you have to really like, you have to understand kids to be a good teacher, you have to really understand each kid individually and be willing yeah to put in time, yeah, and a lot, and like there's a lot of time on the front end of a school year you're putting into getting trust and getting them to understand you and what you expect out of them.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of work that you may not even get to academics till you know two months into the year because, it depends on what class you have.
Speaker 5:That was the way it was at Palomino, and I didn't know that my first year, and so I had a rough time with the.
Speaker 2:You're trying to get these kids to learn. They're like whoa I got to get them to behave and they were first graders, seven-year-olds, you know, and like I said they were a lot of them living either like they were refugees.
Speaker 5:They were some of them were illegal or they were just had just come up from Mexico, a lot of them just in trauma from their home life yeah, a lot of yeah. So I learned a lot about just kids, yeah. And just how to, how to be with kids and you know, and so, yeah, I just learned a lot that year that first year was and that first year was the year I got diagnosed with kidney disease. Oh wow that year, and so I had to take time off.
Speaker 2:I had no idea that you had that before. I didn't know about that.
Speaker 5:Yeah, so that was that year. So that first year was really like even though I mean I loved it, loved it year.
Speaker 1:so that first year was really like, even though I mean I loved it, loved it and I was so thankful for that job. What is kidney?
Speaker 5:disease, if you don't mind me asking. So I've that year. So I thought I had strep throat and so I went to the doctor and my high blood, my blood pressure, was like skyrocketed like 190 over something really high. So they put me in the hospital and found out that my kidneys had um really low function and it turned out to be a. It's called a focal, facial focal. I can't remember what it's called right now. It makes me really nervous to talk about it I don't like talking about it.
Speaker 5:Um. So uh, I had to start going through like taking medicine, high blood pressure medicine and things to protect my kidneys, and so it's just something I've kind of dealt with my whole adult life you still have your kidneys though. I have them yes.
Speaker 1:Something you deal with on a regular basis.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, we're praying.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I'm on the transplant list at Mayo Clinic.
Speaker 2:now, really, god, make a way.
Speaker 5:But I want God to heal.
Speaker 2:I want healing, healing.
Speaker 5:I just told my sister today. I'm like why would I trust a doctor to change my kidneys out, whenever I am vitally and spiritually, every way connected to the healer and to the one who created me? He's the one who's going to heal me. He's the one who takes care of me.
Speaker 1:I've got a story for you. I think our pastor told this story at man camp. So there was this flood coming. This guy's just like god, you're gonna save me. And dude shows up in a boat and he's like, oh, waiting on god, I mean water rises. He's at the top of the roof and he's like waiting on god, there comes this helicopter. You know I what I mean.
Speaker 1:Get on Like nope, god's going to save me. Water gets above. Guy ends up drowning, getting to heaven. He's like God. What happened? He's like dude, I sent you a boat, I sent you a helicopter. So if God sends you kidneys, oh, I'll take them.
Speaker 5:All right I just went actually yesterday and got my blood drawn, because I see these parents.
Speaker 1:I've seen these stories of these parents who just 100% believe God, you've got to have more faith For healing in their kids, and their kids died. Yeah, when doctors could have saved them. Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 5:Well, god gives us doctors for a reason. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And he let me live in the city where Mayo, I'm just making sure you weren't getting weird Getting weird.
Speaker 5:If God sends you kidneys, man, take some kidneys, take the kidneys, yeah. But it's been a really hard faith journey for me too, it's real.
Speaker 2:It's been 20 years of it.
Speaker 5:Yeah. Jesus 23, 24 years. So, yeah, it's hard For one thing. I don't even feel it the it's hard to not not that I. I mean for one thing. I don't even feel it like I'm the worst that happens to me. I get tired yeah but I've you know, I had, like a kidney cancer, um, that I had to have removed in 2011 and um, it's a lot of scary things I've had to do about with all that, that I just don't tell anybody.
Speaker 5:I mean, it's not one of those things that everybody knows about. Just my family and bob really only know even the. Just don't tell anybody. I mean, it's not one of those things that everybody knows about. Just my family and Bob really only know. Even the kids don't know a lot.
Speaker 1:They're going to know now. A lot of people know now. Yeah, but that's good, because we get people praying with you. Man, that's right you know, what I mean.
Speaker 2:You pray for my mom, jesus, heal her kidneys.
Speaker 1:Amen. Our pastor did one time and it was uh, you know, if you, if you put a timeline of your life right out there before you, that god is here when you're born, he's also here, you know, I mean, and he's in it through it all, he sees, he's been there, he's done all that stuff and you have this, this intersecting line where life ends, eternity begins, kind of thing. You know what I mean? And his thing was that if your healing comes on this side of eternity, is God still faithful?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:And I love that analogy because I believe that I tell people all the time there's three ways God heals you miraculously medicine or death. And he's still faithful.
Speaker 5:He's still faithful.
Speaker 1:Even if it's on the other side of eternity, you're still healed. You know what I mean and I love that man.
Speaker 5:We were at prayer time yesterday at NBCA the prayer group and a lady's mom in the school her mom died from she had dementia and I was praying for the family and it just hit me that she's released that oppression of dementia and that's like that, you know, like she's on that side of of the physical death, but she's still on her timeline.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah and now she's released I tell people all the time I'm the last person you want to talk to about someone you know dying because I'm going to make it a celebration. Yeah, sometimes you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:I'm like that's why it says mourn with those that mourn, rejoice with those that rejoice.
Speaker 1:man, we've got to put ourselves in mean I get you're going to be sad, I get you're going to miss them. I get all that. I don't diminish that at all. Have those feelings, allow them to have their place Grieve. Go through your process, go through the process, man, but at some point you have to celebrate. That person is no longer suffering, that person is no longer sick, that person is now free from sin and death and sickness.
Speaker 5:You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:It's like I'm not going to. I don't know. You know what I mean. When my mom died, I grieved. I went through my little process, I cried, but she also told me before she died that I made my peace with God. I'm ready to go, so it's like go mom Go, I'm ready to go. So it's like go, mom, go, I'll see you in a little while, you know what I mean. And it was really that easy. You know what I mean.
Speaker 5:And you get these people that just, oh my God, I mean Well, yeah, I think that it's I don't diminish their pain.
Speaker 1:I get what they're going through. I'm not doing that, don't get me wrong. But also, at some point you have to realize that God is still God. That person is now free and healed and you have to celebrate that. I know people who have passed for three, four years and they're still in this emotional state of just trauma.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that's why I'm so proud of my mom when my dad went and my mom has resisted the urge to stay in grief so well Amen so amazingly, that's strength she's like you know, my mom is so strong Because Kurt was everything outside of Jesus man.
Speaker 5:He's just a big personality and he was the biggest personality in our family and they were together from the time they were, let's see, 18. She was 18. They were both 18, I guess. So they met in high school and then they were together from the time they were, let's see, 18. She was 18. They were both 18, I guess. So they, you know they met in high school, and then they were together the rest of the time.
Speaker 2:So yeah, how old was he when he went to be with the world? 72. Wow, man, yeah they were just shy. They almost made 50 years and he went to heaven, instead he's like I'll give you that one when you get up here with me, baby.
Speaker 5:But I just, she's just done so well yeah.
Speaker 2:Amen. Well, I think the family having you kiddos, uh, there's a, there's a lot into it, yeah.
Speaker 5:Well, yeah, I mean we're, we're there with her all the time, but she's a good example and she's just done. I mean she just that's how I want to be. I want to be just like my mom, you know.
Speaker 2:Amen, and you'll have a lot of kids around to help you through it. Amen, I don't want to think about that right now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, amen.
Speaker 1:I don't either I never really got to know your parents. We weren't at Phoenix Community Church that long, but I just hear stories from rowdy and jayden all the time.
Speaker 5:Just from what I understand, they were wonderful people.
Speaker 2:They were wonderful people. My dad is like super strong and great, and I say is because he still is. Yeah, you know really good cook yeah, he's really known for his good cooking really good um, but he's also um like a good mediator.
Speaker 5:yeah, you know, um really really strong in what he, what he believes. So he could, he could mediate between, like get really super emotional, and my dad could come in and just kind of sweep it out by just being logical. And he's just a strong rock. Like you can't move him and he could be really annoying. My mom always says, like he, she could count on him to be strong and be immovable, and that was that's true.
Speaker 5:And you know, I I think I inherited some that I'm really stubborn. Um, I inherited a lot of his goodness and the things about me like that. I learned how to. I learned how to be a people person. I learned how to, how to welcome people into my life and how to, and that's what he kind of person he was good at.
Speaker 2:I got that.
Speaker 5:He was great at hosting people and, yeah, he was good so and my mom is just like I said she's got the call of the evangelist on her for kids yeah she it's. I can't tell you how many people, how many kids she's led to the lord. Come on on, there's no number. We'll know in heaven. Jade's on that list. My mom has the list with Jade's name on it actually.
Speaker 3:So cool. She found it yeah.
Speaker 5:So, cool. She was called early on and then that has poured over into the grandkids, because all my grandkids, all her grandkids, are evangelists and missionaries now Come on man. In one way or another.
Speaker 1:I think it's one of the greatest callings.
Speaker 5:Oh my gosh, it is. I love being an evangelist, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'd rather I can get on the street and talk to people and share Jesus with them, but you put me in front of people.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's the best. I can read their mail, that I can read their mail. That's him, and they're like how'd you know that?
Speaker 1:God told me it's so amazing to watch people when he starts doing his thing and you see this bug eyed chin on the chin on their chest, like, and he's just going and they're like, they're looking at me, like, like, who is this guy? Why is he telling me my life, you know, it's like it's the best man jesus then they get done.
Speaker 3:They're like dude. How'd you?
Speaker 1:know that, bro, we met this guy on the street, homeless guy, this is the first time I seen it, man man and rowdy, went at him and he just I mean this dude was like freaking out, bro, and that's when I knew him like.
Speaker 2:This dude's a freaking prophet, bro, it's cool because it's it's like growing, and it's growing now to where it'd be. I can be in a crowd and god will give me a word for people during my testimonies and then afterwards I'll go and find those people and give them those words and they're like dude.
Speaker 1:I need it, I need it.
Speaker 2:It's like, yes, lord, there was this lady from our church that he read her mail.
Speaker 1:She called him up like a day or two later and he had on speakerphone. She's like how did you know that?
Speaker 3:I don't know how you knew that. I've never told anybody that?
Speaker 1:How did you know? You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:And he's.
Speaker 1:I need to get together with you. We need to talk about this a little more.
Speaker 2:No, you need to get together with God. A little more with God.
Speaker 1:To hear those kind of conversations you're just like, and to me I'm like it's just rowdy. You know what I mean To me, I don't know any different. I see him do it so much that it's like do your thing, bro. You know what I mean. But to see people literally mind blown, changing for people.
Speaker 2:Sometimes, man, it's blown away. I love it. Good things ahead, man. Yeah, still prefer to be an evangelist. I hate it. So okay, we were talking about kurt and let's get into you ready to get into that.
Speaker 2:Get in about robert, I was good them and kind of how my father came into your life and uh, he talked about it a little bit on his testimony and it kind of opened my eyes a little bit because I didn't know that he liked you like that, from when you were really young, like really young, I was like whoa dude what did he?
Speaker 2:I don't remember what he said yeah, I think it was like 16, 17. He like had an eye on you and knew that, okay, this is one that at a very young age, like that, I'm like whoa, he was in his 30s dude, so it's like, uh, but so get into. Yeah, kurt, it wasn't easy. Kurt was immovable.
Speaker 5:You got one eyebrow up, yes, um that was the hardest part of our life my life with my mom and dad, Because we have a joke that I'm always right, Because I know I have a great memory and I just in general would know the right answer to things and it's a joke now, because I'm not that way anymore.
Speaker 1:Age catching up to you. Age catching up to you.
Speaker 2:Manica. Father time is never defeated, and maybe also because I'm willing.
Speaker 5:I actually like being wrong. Like I feel like I'm willing to be wrong.
Speaker 2:That's gross, so I wouldn't.
Speaker 5:I just wouldn't talk if I didn't know the answer.
Speaker 3:But if I knew the answer, boy, I was there and um, but now I'm like okay, I'm wrong, who cares?
Speaker 5:But, I don't think my brother believes me.
Speaker 3:He still thinks I think I'm right.
Speaker 5:Um he things, I think I'm right.
Speaker 3:Um he'll like text me if you like something like that sounds like you know, you think you're I don't remember anyway, um, but I was right about bob yeah and so I was, uh, I remember when I was 16, I was I would talk.
Speaker 5:I talked to him after he come get the kids from um kids church yeah, you, yeah back in that, yeah, back in that well, that was no, not even in there. This was just like talk to him after and I just uh felt comfortable around him yeah and I was super awkward. This was high school. I'm awkward with everybody, but he was really easy to talk to yeah but I didn't, we didn't talk a lot.
Speaker 5:You know it was, that was not it would like, not even on the radar. I just remember him being very easy to talk to. Yeah. And fun to talk to. So then, when I turned 18, sally and Sandy and them, they let me be like a junior leader of the youth group. Yeah.
Speaker 5:Because really that was just a way to keep me in youth group, because you know when you're 18, you're not supposed to be there, and by then your dad had started being one of the leaders mostly like a show, like he was, like the driver the male figure he was just there and um, so we just would talk, you know, and just got to know each other.
Speaker 5:but because I was more of on the leader's side, I was free to talk. I didn't have to participate in things, so you could go sit over on the wall. I remember sitting on the wall of the room and just talking to him. Again, it was just easy to talk to him. It wasn't anything weird or anything like that.
Speaker 5:He's so fun to talk to and we just liked to talk to and, um, I just really liked, we just like to talk to each other, and so I, um, I feel like my, my parents saw that happening. But see, the problem, the biggest problem of it of that part, of that part of the whole thing, was that my dad had spent a lot of time with your dad.
Speaker 2:Your dad like using my dad as a counselor oh, with my mom, yeah, and all the stuff he had been through and so, and not just your mom, but just all the stuff after that yeah girls and all that kind of stuff after he's a womanizer my dad knew everything that my dad was willing to tell him that your dad was willing to tell him, so my dad didn't want that for his baby girl.
Speaker 5:You know, I'm like literally so sheltered. And not because they were sheltering me, but because that's just the life, we lived Protecting you. Yeah, and that was just because that was the way life was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that was. I'd rather have my kid protected than out there in the streets being some floozy.
Speaker 5:Well, exactly, and I mean we protect our kids the same way. I think we protect our kids more.
Speaker 1:I think if you're living right, they're just naturally protected by the living right. Exactly, that's really what it was. Is we?
Speaker 5:were just a nice, wholesome family, and so my dad saw that coming, they saw that happening and they just were watching to see what was going on and everything.
Speaker 1:But then they notice it in you, just the way you were interacting with them, that was different I don't even. I don't even think she knew, bro, but I didn't but, your parent but your parents, knowing you, they raised you, they know how you are and they know that you're awkward. Now they see you having this easy conversation with this male figure who they're probably like. Wait a minute, this is, I can see something happening here.
Speaker 5:You know what I mean. I mean, they never said anything, they just kind of we were at church all the time so they were always there with us, yeah so there wasn't a lot of, and if they weren't, sandy and sally were around I mean that we were never so, but then we know nothing weird was happening, just no.
Speaker 1:I mean, we knew that. You know what?
Speaker 5:I mean Because he wouldn't do that.
Speaker 1:But then I was just curious if your parents could see in you a change in you taking place in the conversations.
Speaker 5:You know what I mean? Well, maybe because by then I was in college. Yeah, so I was also growing up. Yeah, and having more experience. It's like the whole thing with going out in Dalhambra District? Yeah, it's like the whole thing with going out in Dalhambra district and driving myself places.
Speaker 5:And I was just growing up and in my family that meant like slow increments and so they might have. But I didn't really get, we didn't really start butting heads about it until he asked me out for my 21st birthday. So he waited, I mean, a long time.
Speaker 1:So up until that point there was no. We hadn't gone out.
Speaker 5:We didn't go out. We were at his house a lot because of youth group stuff yeah, um so like I swam in their pool and I, but it was all kid stuff. Never, ever, just me and him together and um so. But then he asked me out and he's so in some ways he's so naive, like he thought it was what's wrong with this, like duh, I mean even I could tell it was wrong with it and my mom flat out said no she's not doing that.
Speaker 5:My dad was, you know, more willing to. Just let's see where this goes kind of.
Speaker 2:Thing.
Speaker 5:And so I went with that. My dad was a little more lenient about it. So I'm like, okay, well, daddy says it's okay. I'm going. So we had to have a lot of long talks about it just to get on that date, and we did. And the other thing about it was it was a Celine Dion concert.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's what I remember.
Speaker 5:And I did not. I mean, I had nothing to do with it, I didn't even know, celine. The only reason I knew her is because of my heart will go on. Titanic From Titanic.
Speaker 1:I still don't know none of her songs, yeah.
Speaker 5:Well.
Speaker 3:I do now because Bob really liked her.
Speaker 5:That's right.
Speaker 2:I'm going to take my future wife to a lady I love.
Speaker 5:So, um, he, um so. So even that was like my mom's like why do you want to go to that? Like why don't you go do? If you're going to go out with him, do something you want to do. But I wanted to go on a date with Bob, so we went and yeah, so it was. I mean that was.
Speaker 1:At that point would you say you were starting to have feelings for him?
Speaker 5:I was totally liked him. I was, yeah, I very much liked him and it was like my first. Also, I didn't have any boyfriends in school yeah um, I was so shy around boys I know there were boys that liked me that I was just like cut them off because I didn't know what to do with them. I did not know how to do that, but it was bob. It was easy because he's older and so he was safer. Yeah, maybe, I mean I was emotionally safer for me.
Speaker 2:Really able to provide something that the younger guys wouldn't have been able to provide for you.
Speaker 5:Yeah, boys didn't know what to do to get me to talk, and your dad did. He knew how to get me to talk and it wasn't hard anyway, because he was so fun to talk to, so it was just kind of so easy. But it's because we're meant to be together.
Speaker 2:I was going to say now, looking back on it all, it was like God saved you. It was like God literally wrapped you in a cocoon and said, no, I'm saving this one for Robert.
Speaker 5:And it was an amazing gift for him after everything he'd been through to be able to, as he says, do this one right everything he did right with me.
Speaker 3:It's really good he really did.
Speaker 5:He was so good with me, and so he always takes such good care of me anyway.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's good. So the stuff that he didn't do right with mom, he's able to take care of.
Speaker 5:He did it right with you, yeah, and I think with your mom it was just because they were both kids.
Speaker 2:They were both so young dude yeah, 18 and 19. Got themselves into a situation. Kids having kids yeah, exactly. Oh, a kid will make it better. Oh, we're pregnant, let's get married.
Speaker 5:And that had nothing to do with either one of them, except for they found themselves in a situation.
Speaker 2:It's all part of their story. It's part of their story. It led to him. It led to you.
Speaker 5:Right, exactly, really was more Bob's experience after that and what he did with his life and his um, his actions towards women after that. That really is what I think has had. Has he's had to deal with more than anything that happened with your mom, yeah yeah, that's real.
Speaker 2:He talks about it in his testimony, if you guys want to hear it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah um I remember breaking the window in the house On UG.
Speaker 5:On UG.
Speaker 1:Remember that. It was a kitchen window, we couldn't get in, and I'm trying to slide the window open and just oh, he's not going to know that he did that, is he? Like a kitchen window by the sink.
Speaker 2:The sliding one, yeah, by the little laundry room over there.
Speaker 1:I thought if I could push in and slide, it would pop open.
Speaker 3:I don't know, I just went right out like 10 o'clock at night in the home depot getting roberts well, they didn't like it.
Speaker 5:They didn't the whole thing. My mom and I went around and round and round, and I at the same time, because that was over years yeah, it was years, years for the first three years that we were together we never even really went on that many dates. There was so much talking going on and so much um like how?
Speaker 2:how were you guys talking?
Speaker 5:because it wasn't a lot okay, yeah, the house phones talk to the church.
Speaker 2:This is before cell phones and pagers.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah and I can and I and I remember because I his uh, it was his work number usually, I mean your 493706, that one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's his cell phone number. Now, it was the house number. I know yeah from Michelle, yeah.
Speaker 5:Yeah, he took it all the way.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 5:But his work number as well always came up, so I would working at palomino. I talked to him at work from my classroom phone.
Speaker 2:You know, we just talked as much as we could and um, that's the best way to start a relationship a friendship just be friends and be able to talk to each other yeah, and he was really fast, my best friend.
Speaker 5:Yeah, like really fast, and then, um, yeah, so I don't know, I that it's kind of hard because I don't really remember. It just was, it's just this five-year block block of time. Yeah, wanting to, wanting to be together with him and coming up against my parents over and over and over again and, like I said, my mom and I going around and around about it, having a conversation, and she convinced me that it was wrong, and then I, you know that go wake up the next morning. No, I'm not wrong, and you know.
Speaker 2:A girl and her feelings. Yeah, but I wasn't wrong. I know. Yeah, it was. You could just feel it inside me. It was deeper than just having feelings. So this was right. After high school and then you go into GCU for your four years. Even over there at GCU, this is all kind of this is pretty much happening at GCU. Herculating. Okay, yeah, in high school. This wasn't going on, it was at GCU, okay, and then I got back home. You graduate at 22, and at 23, it becomes official.
Speaker 5:Well, no, we didn't get married until I was 26.
Speaker 2:No, but at 23 you started dating 21. We had our first date at 21.
Speaker 5:So it went from the time I was 21, until we got married, we were just back and forth, back and forth, because then my mom and dad finally were like okay, this must be what's supposed to happen. This is going to happen, whether we like it or not.
Speaker 2:Where there's a will, there's a way, and they both want this Okay we better get on board, honey.
Speaker 3:The ship's leaving. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:If we want to be part of this thing, we better hop on, exactly.
Speaker 5:And so my dad, I don't know. They just kind of like they stopped fighting it yeah well then my then bob, started fighting it. It's like as soon as he had the permission. Then all of a sudden he starts fighting don't want to, kids didn't want to. So my, my nephew was born. So first boy, the first baby in our family is born, and and.
Speaker 3:Jade and.
Speaker 1:Colby or Becky.
Speaker 5:No, this is Sonny, my nephew. My sister had a son Sister okay. And Jade and Bob came to the hospital to see him because they were that involved in our family.
Speaker 3:And.
Speaker 5:Jade wanted to see the new baby right and Bob held him and freaked out. Oh, not doing this.
Speaker 2:Can't do this. Cannot do this. He didn't really have the best experience with his other two kids I kind of put him through the ringer we hadn't done.
Speaker 1:Jay was still she had no comment for that that's another story.
Speaker 5:He got a lot of trauma. He needs to work through still Well by so at that point, yeah, you were living with them already, but Jade was still little.
Speaker 5:She was still very young and because she was like maybe 11 or 12. And yeah, he just well, and he had proposed, so I had my, I was, we were engaged, we were on the way to get married. We didn't have any plans like solid plans yet, but I was, we were engaged and he like just took me out to dinner like maybe six days later. I didn't hear from him for a week after. He held Sonny and then took me out to dinner and said I can't marry you and took my ring away. What?
Speaker 5:yeah wow and um broke my heart yeah
Speaker 5:broke. I was broken and um and so that. So I went home. So by then I had got an apartment. I lived in those apartments on greenway and 40th Street across from the QT. Yeah, I lived there and my sister lived with me, but well you know, she didn't live with me because she had had Sunny. So she was her and her new husband were living and had Sunny, and so I was by myself. I was right like I was going to move. Anyway, it didn't really matter, I was in that apartment by myself and I went home and that's when I met jesus.
Speaker 5:That night is really became my jesus oh, wow yeah so I have right at night. He took away the ring, oh wow so I, um, I went home and I was, I like I thought I was gonna die of a broken heart. I literally thought I was going to die. My heart hurt so bad I couldn't I can't even describe to you how hurt it was, and.
Speaker 2:You were right at the right place for Jesus.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and confused, you know, didn't understand why, why he couldn't.
Speaker 5:just I just didn't understand yeah, yeah and um, so it was like three days, like I don't remember what day it was. I don't remember if I was teaching. I'm sure I was teaching because, um, well, I know I was teaching. It was october, it was november of that year of. It was november because sonny was born october 28th, so, um, I had to have been. Of. It was November because Sonny was born October 28th, so I had to have been teaching. Maybe it was over a weekend. I just remember three solid days of just by myself. I didn't call my, I probably called my mom, but I don't remember doing that. I remember it being really dark and I think maybe the really darkness was just me, but I just remember not eating, not doing anything and just talking to the lord and do you remember that conversation?
Speaker 5:yeah, I haven't written down really I have three pages written and I'm there at home and um just telling him that I was, that I I was and he could do whatever he wanted with me because I was empty and broken and I learned. That's when I learned that you can't know Jesus until you break. Everybody has to break. That's so good, wow, and it doesn't matter if you grow up like I grew up.
Speaker 3:It doesn't matter.
Speaker 5:You've got to break, and so it doesn't matter if you have a, really you make a lot of bad choices or if you grow up completely well, you have to break, because Jesus can't come in and fill you until you break. Yeah. So I always tell people that now Like my sister and I both agree on that.
Speaker 2:You have to break. Yeah, that's what 2019 was for me.
Speaker 1:yeah, breaking me yeah, and you ever seen that chinese pottery? What the?
Speaker 2:blue and white stuff.
Speaker 1:No, there's this chinese pottery that they take and they they, if it's broken, yeah, and they literally like put it back together put it back together with gold
Speaker 5:oh, yes, yes, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:I know what you mean, yes, and the prior pottery is not valuable at all. But that put back together pottery with the gold and laid into the cracks is priceless, it's expensive. Yeah, it's kind of like us. You know, what I mean. It's when we break and God fills in the pieces that we become valuable.
Speaker 5:Not that we're not valuable anyways, but that's when we become more valuable. When jesus fills in those cracks, it's when that light starts to shine.
Speaker 2:Man through them cracks yeah wow he um so my dad, taking back the ring engagement, broke you to a point where you got. So you were, just like you said, empty.
Speaker 5:Like here I am, god, if this is what you want, man because I, because I had not grown up any other way, I mean I was not going to leave jesus. I knew it wasn't his fault, so he yeah, that wasn't I don't even that from what you're sharing.
Speaker 2:That was not you at all. It was him dealing with stuff that he had to deal with oh yeah, that was totally not my fault. Yeah that was not you at all. That was him, buddy.
Speaker 5:You need to get over yourself but he's the first one to say that yeah, it wasn't his fault it wasn't my fault. No, it wasn't anything I did um.
Speaker 2:It was just the way it was for any for any young ladies that may be engaged or dealing with something like this, if that guy comes and does something like that. You know what I'm saying, Just so that they know that the dude's got to get over some stuff.
Speaker 5:Or the other way around. It may be a guy whose girlfriend has done the same thing. I mean, we all have to break and we all have to do it and we're all the same, and whether we're men or women, we're all the same in that respect.
Speaker 2:Yeah, with him.
Speaker 5:And so it can go both ways, and it doesn't so what did that look like that evening?
Speaker 2:You said it was a period of three days. How did you come out? Or did he speak to you? Or did you see a vision? Did you hear him?
Speaker 5:I just remember waking up on the fourth day or the third day, maybe I don't remember exactly. I just know I have three days of writing, okay, um, and just feeling like me again, like feeling free and feeling like kind of washed, clean but also kind of completely drained. Yeah, um, just and kind of like, okay, maybe what it was. What it was like a friday, a saturday and sunday, and then I had to go to work on monday, but I remember going, I remember driving to work and just feeling like um, okay, I can do this, I I felt empowered, I felt like I can, I, I can walk this.
Speaker 5:I can be. I can be without Bob Cause. I can be by myself, obviously but, I, can be without Bob.
Speaker 5:And um, and then I did, and, and, and I committed. So one part of it, though, is that Jade and I are intertwined, like there's just something about the two of us that we're just. Her heart is part of mine mine's part of hers and we had already grown that close and yeah, you guys were growing together over there on yuji right and she would like bike down in my apartment. Uh, bob would let her do that. She'd bring me flowers or she'd just come and hang out I mean we were just very, very close or she'd just come and hang out.
Speaker 5:I mean, we were just very, very close and I babysat her all the time. So I had to make the determination of what am I going to do for Jade, because she is, regardless of what happens with Bob, I am not leaving Jade. I am not leaving her. She was like the most important kid in my life, person in my life really at that point.
Speaker 3:And so.
Speaker 5:I was already being her mom and I didn't know I was being her mom, but I was already being her mom and so, um, I told, I didn't even tell bob, I didn't even talk to him, I didn't, I didn't give him the luxury of getting to hear my voice the time of day, I moved on, so, um, I can do this without you, so, but I told her.
Speaker 5:I called her at the house Because she had her own number in her room. She had her own phone. He had gotten her a line. So I called her line and I said I'll pick you up For school. This doesn't change anything Because she knew about it. It doesn't change anything, I'm going to pick you up for school, I'll be there. So I spent the next however many Like almost a year going to their house when he wasn't there, picking her up for school, doing stuff with her. Never once saw him. I made sure I never saw him.
Speaker 5:He didn't like I said he didn't get to see me for a year for almost a year, dang, yeah, um, and I bought him a bible for christ over that year which he uses still, but I didn't, I didn't, just, I just didn't. Let him see me Like, well, fine, you know and it wasn't mad. I was just like well then, you don't get to have me in your life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you don't want me, yeah.
Speaker 5:But I'm not giving up on.
Speaker 3:Jade unless he made me for some reason.
Speaker 5:But he would never do that, he would never make me do that. He would never make me do that, not gonna hurt his kids just to spite you. Yeah, and he wasn't even convinced of it himself. I mean, he did this all on a fear, trying to save me. That kid scared the shit oh, that kid scared him.
Speaker 5:Yes, they scared me for a while too, but now I want him yeah and he, I like that, um, he, yeah, he didn't really know what he was doing and uh, just did it because out of fear and trying to preserve something for me. Trying to preserve saying you know, I don't want kids, but I want you to have kids. Trying to be noble in the whole thing you know just it was.
Speaker 5:he was just messed up, confused, so whatever, but that went on for know a year, about a year. So that last part of that five years was him running the other way. Wow, so but yeah.
Speaker 1:He left that part out of his story.
Speaker 5:He doesn't tell it as well as I do, yeah no, that's what he said.
Speaker 2:He said I don't remember a lot of these dates. She remembers it all.
Speaker 5:Oh, I've got it locked in.
Speaker 2:So remember a lot of these dates. She remembers it all. I've got it locked in, so at 26 you guys become official when is this?
Speaker 5:this is so okay, so that's a good story, though that that helps. That kind of finalizes the whole thing yeah so I'm going along. I went that's when I went on that missions trip with linea, like my cousin linea. We were going to Living Streams Church, which is in the where we got married. He would bring.
Speaker 2:James Church.
Speaker 5:Yeah, it's a great church um he would sit across the way you know with Jake.
Speaker 1:Central Bethany Homeina it is now.
Speaker 5:It was uh on like um well, they moved, but I can't remember where it was but um, so that was so. I'm just walking along, getting stronger and stronger and stronger with the Lord, just learning how to be a. A woman of God really is what it was. I was just learning how to be a woman who loved Jesus. Yeah.
Speaker 5:And didn't feel like a woman at all, still felt like a child, but with a completely different relationship with the Lord and so, but I was just plugging along teaching, being with jay doing stuff. Sunny was like the most a miracle to me. He was just everything to me, you know, and um, like he stays at night with me and he was just the most amazing and he's one that has cars and they have a camaro now yes, he has a cam, a Camaro.
Speaker 5:Yeah, he has his own baby now, oh, does he? Yeah, he's married with a child now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just remember him buying that Camaro.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Somebody online, I think Somebody got a hold of me and I wanted to do some exhaust on her Right.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I got you, bro yeah yeah, no, he's had a couple Camaros, yeah, so I remember a red one. You have a red one, yeah, okay, yeah, um, so anyway, he was part of it all. Just he was very healing too. He brought a lot of healing. Just his presence brought a lot of healing to our whole family yeah um, so just plugging along, you know.
Speaker 5:And then, um, I went to, uh, I I made plans to go to washington to mary to stay with one of my friends from college. She got married, they lived in the DC area, she wanted to show me DC Cool, and that was the summer like that summer at the end of the summer that it all happened yeah, the same time. And so I was supposed to watch Jade, because he was going on the river trip with your grandpa and so I was going to. Jade was going on the river trip with your grandpa and so I was going to. Jade was going to stay with me, but there was this overlap, so I ended up dropping her off at your guys' house and going on my trip. But before Bob left, he just told me he talked by then and we were talking and he said I just we need to talk whenever I get home.
Speaker 5:So I had this little hope that you know he had something you know and I knew had God had been working on him. So anyway we.
Speaker 1:Were you guys still going to church together?
Speaker 5:We were going to church, but not together. He would sit on the other side of the building, so him and Jade over here and me and Linnea over here, but we would see each other Broken up and still going yeah, but we would see each other Broken up and still
Speaker 3:going.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but we didn't want to not go to church.
Speaker 5:We loved that church.
Speaker 1:What was your parents' mindset and attitude during this year period?
Speaker 5:You know, at that point they were, so I think they were just watching me to see where it was going to end I think by then they were figuring we were going to get married. I remember my dad asking me if I loved him. I still loved him after a few months after that all happened. I did, I loved him and I just I just did, yeah, and so they were kind of like I said, they were kind of resigned the whole thing you know, they loved him by then, I mean, they never stopped loving him yeah my mom and him got still get along really well.
Speaker 1:My dad, him, they just came to terms with it all.
Speaker 5:They just did yeah, they just realized that this was not weird yeah and it wasn't your, it wasn't him being a weird man it was him falling in love with somebody and um wow, that's beautiful yeah so, uh, so anyway, yeah.
Speaker 5:so he went on his trip. I went on my trip, I got home, he got home and he called me and called me and I went over there to talk and he said that on the trip he had been feeling it before, but on the trip that God said you're going the wrong way, this is the wrong way. Kids is not part of this. She belongs to you. You have to marry her. And so he gave me my ring back that night Did he propose again. All I cared about was that ring give me back.
Speaker 2:I didn't know he had to engage you twice. Yeah, yeah, that's special yeah so.
Speaker 5:But the second time was even more special because it was just like a good conversation, yeah, there at their house, at the at ug, and just yeah. So then, like boom, we just decided we're going to get married quick.
Speaker 2:We know we're doing this.
Speaker 5:And it was. We were not going to change our minds and I knew he wouldn't change his mind. I did have a lot of I had a lot of anxiety throughout our marriage Just actually just stopped not too long ago of him either, just not wanting to be married like dreams. He didn't want to be married. Like dreams he didn't want to be married. Or that we were, had all the kids, but we weren't married and he didn't want to, you know, oh geez so there's a lot of psychological fiery darts man, yeah, that's real, it is real, I just tell him about it.
Speaker 2:If that happens, so good yeah expose that lying devil yeah yeah, so he could tell you, you're crazy, you're the best thing that ever happened to me.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and I don't think it's so much. I am doing that, exposing the devil. Yeah, I was like look what I'm still dealing with.
Speaker 2:We have a group for that. It's real, oh man. So it's real, oh man, um.
Speaker 5:so yeah, wow, I get married in december that year that was 2003 three. Yeah, I remember you guys's wedding yeah I remember jade being a wreck about something she didn't want, so we were making her go to um with my sister to spend the night while we went because we didn't go on a honeymoon right away we just and she wanted to go with you guys, and bob said no, and so she was mad all day long she ruined so many pictures.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, for a sour look on her face I remember showing up and she just ran and jumped in my arms and was crying I'm like what is going on?
Speaker 5:yeah, so mad. Yeah, she was just being 14, though. You know what?
Speaker 1:she was mad about, she was a girl in her feelings.
Speaker 5:My favorite thing, though, that she did I just love her so much and she was so possessive of me, right, and we were doing the pictures and just the bride, me and my sister. It was my sister, my cousin, linnea and Jade were my bridesmaids and she got herself and wedged herself in between me and Linnea. She was not going to let anybody be next to me except her. It was just so, jade, I just loved it.
Speaker 3:It was one of my favorite memories.
Speaker 5:And then we have a great picture of her and Bob, and she wasn't mad at me.
Speaker 3:She was mad at.
Speaker 5:Bob, and so she was just grouchy and everything. But the photographer said something funny I don't remember what it was and got them both laughing and got the greatest picture of them laughing together. Yeah so yeah, she was fun that day I remember the red dresses was red dresses, yeah yeah, red dresses and barefoot, um, and it was fun I there's some things I would do different now that I'm, you know have more of a knowledge of weddings and everything. But yeah, it was.
Speaker 2:You'll have a couple of daughters that you'll need to get ready for.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah, I know there's four of them, three of them and hopefully four.
Speaker 2:Let's slow down though, Laura, let's slow down.
Speaker 3:I thought we were going to be marrying and some experiences first God, when they get the family and the kids and all that.
Speaker 2:Jesus, I'm not looking forward to that at all.
Speaker 1:I wish they could just stay young Me too, I told Andrew. I said if they could stay like two or three years old, I'd have had a dozen of them yeah. And they grow up and you're like, oh jesus yeah dad, can I have some money?
Speaker 2:dad, can I use the car? What?
Speaker 5:the heck god three years old is good, that's what miley is right now, and it's a good three four.
Speaker 1:They're past the terrible twos they're kind of enjoyable, you can have conversations.
Speaker 5:Yeah, those are the best ones.
Speaker 1:Those are good, good years and then they get about 10 or 12 want to start talking back to you. Yeah, that's not good, yeah yeah, also your encounter.
Speaker 2:you um break, jesus, god, he's so close to the brokenhearted, he's so good at what he does. Man, can I just?
Speaker 1:say that I'm amazed it took you 23, 24 years to hit a breaking point. That's pretty phenomenal, man. Let's be real. Most people hit a breaking point in their teens.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I know, I don't know. I just part of it. Credit goes to my parents keeping us. You know, just like you said, they lived well, so we lived well, but I think I didn't live at all let me ask you this, because this is what I ask every guest did your parents exemplify jesus in the home?
Speaker 2:oh yeah, that's so huge you saw your dad and your mom reading the bible, especially my mom but my dad, you know, my dad did the best whenever he was, like, responsible for teaching.
Speaker 5:Yeah, um, they did that light and power class there at pcc and he, um, he had so much fun like put on the worship music and then work, talk about an outline, um, and I my handwriting was really. So he would have me write out all his charts and everything that he would do, and it was a really fun time. He had hit a problem, a really deep depression, because when my grandma died, his mom died, and so that was the up and down for him was trying to fight that and so whenever he went into that was whenever he quit going to PCC Sonny actually lifted him up out of just the presence.
Speaker 5:It's not Sonny himself, but the presence of that baby. Really, like I said, he did a lot of healing it's a new life man. It is and it just helps so much to have that to focus on.
Speaker 2:Well, he's grandpa, I'm a grandpa.
Speaker 1:It's a purpose for a man at that age man and gone through everything right, you'd be surprised how many people that are raised in church but their parents don't exemplify jesus in the home yeah and then it just becomes religion yeah you know what I mean. That's why it's important. That's why I think it's important to ask our guests you know that was a. You know I mean because that's it now. It's now. It says a lot. Why not that you were sheltered, but your life was that way is because jesus was there.
Speaker 5:It was in the home, you know, I mean yeah and um.
Speaker 1:There's people who, yeah, they go to church on sunday, go to church on wednesday, but at home there's no bible reading, there's no praying, they're drinking and watching. You know what I mean and so now, now that you say that, I can see how, why your life was so I don't mind. I hate using the word shelter because it wasn't sheltered but it was so protected. You know what I mean well it was protected by god yeah yeah
Speaker 5:it wasn't and not that my parents didn't protect, because they did like we weren't even like allowed to like. Of course you are, yeah but um, just, he, just, yeah, he just kept me safe. He always has kept me safe, he always has even I mean with your dad.
Speaker 5:Look what I mean he gave me such a good husband such a protector, such a person who, even though he had been through so much, he took care of me and didn't use me and didn't hurt me, except for hurt my feelings, you know, taking away my ring um. But he god, even protected me in that it's been.
Speaker 5:God protected me all these years, you know, and he gave me parents that would, and he gave me a husband that has and in between, whenever I didn't feel like I had somebody to protect me jesus has been very very present amen and so and then, or like with my kidneys. He's always protected me with my kidneys he's always just kept me going you know they may drop, but then they stay like it's just, he's always, always, always there, yeah.
Speaker 1:So let's know in your journey a little bit how we know. I'll let you tell it how did? How did bob's reaction to the children thing change? Did it change at all?
Speaker 5:yeah, so it did change um did you guys try good question no, so so one of the things that he it's hard for me to accept, but it probably is true, because he has a vasectomy so that was. We would have had to fix that yeah um with the kidney disease. It makes me extremely high risk pregnancy. Oh wow, so he's not willing, was not willing to put me through that and lose me.
Speaker 2:He didn't want to lose you, man, yeah but we didn't know what to do.
Speaker 5:He still didn't really want kids.
Speaker 2:It wasn't that we and I got six of them over here.
Speaker 5:Oh, it's a great joke.
Speaker 2:He held that little one and was like no, the Lord just said wait five years. I'm going to give you a lot of them. They're going to turn your hair white. He's loving it, man. I love you.
Speaker 5:They're keeping you young. They are, aren't they? They do.
Speaker 3:They do man.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's the best. God does have a great sense of humor. He sure does. He does have a great sense of humor.
Speaker 5:He does. Well, we got married and right away started having trouble. Jade started having trouble, jade started having trouble being, and so that whole thing with the boarding school happened which I have a lot of oh yeah, so do I, I have. I had trauma I had to work through with that whole thing, um, but we did what we thought we had to do at the time. Can I ask you a question?
Speaker 1:yeah, you ever have conversations with her about that.
Speaker 4:Oh, yeah, okay, Okay we talk about it a lot Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm going to get her on this thing one day. One day she's got such a healing for her when she can sit down and talk about it. And just in time, yeah, in time.
Speaker 5:The thing is that if I had had been the mom that I am now, that never would have happened. And it wasn't like I was pushing him to send her away and it wasn't like he was pushing to send her away. He really didn't know what else to do. She had ran away and she was going down the same road. He had gone down and she's not. I mean boy, man to man.
Speaker 2:It's different for a boy. This is love it.
Speaker 5:Baby jay is my little girl and he didn't know what else to do so from a parent's standpoint that was very um, we didn't, he didn't know, so I supported him and we didn't know, and and then the whole thing the mexico thing is what I hate.
Speaker 2:And then the fact yeah, so the me Mexico thing is what.
Speaker 3:I hate. And then the fact that, yeah, that was good. So the Mexico thing is what?
Speaker 5:I hate. But then also this is that she didn't get to do high school Like my kids. My kids are not doing high school like the normal high school either. My kids are all online by their own choice.
Speaker 5:You know it's not like I want the kids to do high school I hated high school but um at least they have options yeah, um, and I just told her the other day I can't remember what I said actually, but I just I would have been if I was the mom I am now. She would have had me yeah because I'm a great mom of teenagers now and I'm I just I understand and because then the way I understand her and like we were already in like so intricately, you wouldn't have been able to connect with her, because that's that's what she needed but I'm a 26 year old brand new married yeah don't know what to do and she's given a huge attitude.
Speaker 5:I mean, it wasn't like.
Speaker 2:She was like this sweet little she was a strong one yeah, it was a pistol so, and so I think.
Speaker 5:I think also the after part of it, of her just going straight to the army. I would have changed that too and kept her home a little more time but bob didn't know. And I tell Levi a lot too now, like it doesn't count. Daddy, I tell him I was like Daddy had Rowdy and Jade, but he didn't really raise them as teenagers. So you're going to like in Levi's case he's got to give us some grace. He's literally the first teenager I've raised because with Jade it wasn't the same.
Speaker 5:So while I have I, I do, I just think what it is is that I didn't know how to be a mom, and if I had known, things would not have turned out that way see and just hearing you say that that's crazy, because you literally grew up with the best mom but you have to learn how to be a mom. Eddie knows that you don't just magically know well, he didn't have good parents.
Speaker 5:It doesn't matter, you have to, you have to learn how to do it you learn from the time they're babies and you learn with them, and so your first child is you're growing up with your first child yeah, and that's just how it is, and every parent knows that I had this conversation with my daughter the other day about this and I was like you gotta understand how I was raised.
Speaker 1:You know, I've tried to make difference, differences in how I raised you guys. You know what I mean and I've done a lot better.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean yeah, you have buddy, you changed, I can remember when kade was five or six, I was a thrower was that the lighter?
Speaker 1:yeah, and I threw a lighter at him, hit him right here just below the eye, and it was like damn, I was almost, you know, I mean. And my wife said yeah, you're just like just like your dad and I was like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, this is not happening. I stopped yelling, I stopped screaming, I stopped throwing, I started having conversations and explaining to them and talking to them.
Speaker 1:And it changed everything man started parenting if you just sit down and talk to your kids. Yeah, listen and be just attentive man attentive it makes it made a total difference. And now today, my children will come and have conversations with me yeah, you know what I mean. And I could tell, I tell everybody all the time, like with Cade, I still wasn't a perfect dad, I'd still get mad and yell and scream, but I would go back and be like, hey, I shouldn't have did that, man, I apologize.
Speaker 2:Make amends.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry. I yelled at you. I had a rough day. I didn't want to come home and have to deal with this. It just was you know what and explain my situation and apologize. And what that did in return is it gave my kids the understanding that it's okay to have a bad day, it's okay to blow up in a moment, but make sure you come back and say hey, man, Come back around, because now, when Cade was living with us, he would come home mad say something stupid, mean go to his room 30 minutes later.
Speaker 2:Come on, I'm sorry, guys.
Speaker 1:He's like I'm sorry, Dad, Love you, buddy, I didn't mean to talk to you like that man, it was just a really stressful day and it was conversations you know, what I mean, and I think parents need to understand that it's okay to apologize to your kids.
Speaker 5:Yeah, absolutely, because it shows them it's okay to make a mistake as long as you come back and apologize for it. You're modeling, no matter what you do. Yes, good. So if you model, because I am, I yell with my kids. I yell, yeah, and, and, and. That's something I learned from home. Yeah, um, I'm my mom get over here now she yelled at us. I mean, you know there's nothing wrong with that. No, but I'm I'm, I can yell and I'm also a talker, so I can go on, and, on, and on and on and I'm not all right mom,
Speaker 2:about it.
Speaker 5:You know, I mean I may appear nice now, but when I'm mad at my kids I'm mean yeah and um and I just learned. I guess I learned or I just felt like I needed to say sorry. I don't remember how I started doing that, but I just do that.
Speaker 2:I do that with my kids, yeah and if you get a little too rough or a little too long, I'm sorry.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I mean, like it'll always be an explanation, like you did this. This made me mad. I mean, I'm trying to like also help them understand, explain why so good and that's.
Speaker 2:That's what I never got. It was always because.
Speaker 5:I said so Cause I do a lot of that too. So because I do a lot of that too, because there is a lot of us, because we need the why.
Speaker 2:The why is how we learn, the why is how we're.
Speaker 5:Oh, that's why usually in my case, it's why I got mad. Why? What made me mad? What did this? And I'm sorry, I yelled, or I'm sorry I yelled in my case yeah, so I learned with him what not to do.
Speaker 1:I did horrible with this one.
Speaker 5:Don't get high with your kids.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to lie, I did horrible with this one. I didn't want a dad with him, I wanted a friend.
Speaker 1:But I also learned to not be my kid's friends. Yeah, you know what?
Speaker 2:I mean Right, you got to be your dad.
Speaker 1:And I used to tell my kids all the time I'm not your friend, I'm not here to be your friend. We can be friendly.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But I'm not your friend, I'm not bro, I'm not dude, yeah, I'm dad.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean and like even when Cade would come home and he knew he's going to be consequences. You know, I mean you're gonna have to give up this, you're gonna have to give up that and it was just. It's just conversations yeah explanations, understanding of why.
Speaker 1:Okay, you know we don't do this. You know there's consequences. It's because you did it, you know I mean, and explain to them that and get them to understand if you continue to be this way, there's going to be consequences, and to carry through on those consequences you know, carry through, or else it's just empty words, you know what I mean, and I've learned how to explain and talk to the to my younger kids on, like I did with these ones.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean and it was just. It was God. It was the best thing I ever did as a parent. You know what I mean. I've made plenty of mistakes here, but I made sure I didn't make them here because I learned on these ones, you know, I mean, and just conversations, explanations, apologies, whatever it took to make the situation.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that's why I say that, like if I had had that experience of because while I was parenting Jade before we were married unknowingly yeah, I wasn't, really, I wasn't her parent. So to come up against this situation that we were in, you know, if I had had her, since she was, a baby then we would have just talked it out and it would have been different.
Speaker 2:You were dealing with a lot there was mom not being. You know you're not my mom.
Speaker 5:There was a lot, but she never said that I know she has never said that to me, but it's because I've never put myself in a place that I'm your mom to be, even though I am a lot in a lot of ways um, but it was, in my, at least for my part, just inexperienced yeah and not knowing what to do.
Speaker 5:And he was just, I mean, he just didn't, he didn't know what to do either, so, anyway, that happened. So when we're we get jade all the way through boot camp, right, yeah, and we'd already done boot camp with you you guys came out and saw me at graduation, right and you had stayed with us during the whole time when you were training.
Speaker 2:You know training and all that rucking there and back right and you and your dad are really good at ganging up on me, by the way the whole time when you were training you know, training and all that, yeah, rucking there and back to the thing in my little sack.
Speaker 5:And you and your dad are really good at ganging up on me, by the way.
Speaker 2:We're Finchecks.
Speaker 5:I know it's really like.
Speaker 3:I'll go in my room now, thank you.
Speaker 5:It's fun living with them. So, but I, yeah, so we got them through boot camp and then I mean I had to start talking about kids. I mean, what am I? I'm well funny, I was 28. What are we going to do? You know, it's just a conversation we have to have, and so we didn't know what to do, though, because adoption is so expensive, and he wasn't really willing to put money into something when he didn't really want to be a parent anymore, you know, yeah, um.
Speaker 5:So in the meantime I'm having to go to like get blood drawn and go to a lot of testing and stuff for my kidney it was continual.
Speaker 5:It's a continual thing every three months for my whole adult life really so, um, one day we were at my mom would always go with me back then to get my blood drawn and so we were sitting there and she was working at tutor time and there was a family there that were foster parents and she just kind of offhandedly said what about foster care? And I mean it went off in me and I'm like that sounds amazing, sounds like something Bob would get into you know, and so then I went home that afternoon and I said, what about foster care?
Speaker 5:And it was like his eyes lit up, because to him it was like Temporary, temporary.
Speaker 3:You know, yes, mandy gets to be you know, gets to do the whole parenting thing, she gets kids in the house.
Speaker 2:I don't have to.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah. So that's how we started foster care, come on now, yeah, and so I mean I took his tentative. Yes, and ran with it and we got started on the, because it's like 30 hours of classes. There's a ton. Every parent should have to go through what foster parents have to go through to have kids in their house. So yeah, just got started on that.
Speaker 1:That's an amazing ministry, by the way, just so you know, because we know people at our church that do foster care. It takes special people to do that. It really does.
Speaker 1:You know, I mean I could not do it yeah because, like we have a friend right now who's going through they got a baby, a fresh born baby. They've had him for six, seven, eight months now he's getting to be pretty big and they're they're the thought now them having the thought of we might not be able to have this kid. You know what I mean, that they're like we're already attached, we're already emotionally invested in this kid and you know, the courts are doing their thing and they're hopefully they're going to get to adopt it hopefully.
Speaker 1:But to see them go through that emotional just attachment, the possibility of I mean, that's tough man.
Speaker 5:It's hard. That's the labor that moms go through. Foster moms, you know you don't go through physical labor but you go through really strong labor of the heart. That's what it is is labor it's just it's all faith. It's really hard.
Speaker 1:He said the hardest thing for him to do, because I got to tell him I'm like. You need to be praying for these parents, dude you know, what I mean, that's hard.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, he's starting to get mad he started to.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. He got to a point where he was your will be done. If it's God's will that, he's going to be yours. He's going to be yours if it's God's will that the parents get their act together and get the kid back. That should be something you want to celebrate as well, I mean, you're trained to do that for one thing so you do.
Speaker 5:You've had kids go back right, but in our case after one thing you know, so you do.
Speaker 2:I mean, there's a, there's a, you've had kids go back, right?
Speaker 5:yeah but in our case, because we adopted levi, valentine, sally, all together um, and then we're our first placement yeah we knew what it felt like to have kids, that you knew it was going, you knew where it was heading pretty quick and you knew if they fit.
Speaker 5:You know, because not every personality fits yeah yeah, and so, like we had one baby, we actually got him. At the outset we knew he was six months away from reunification. He just his. His foster family had to move, yeah, so they just needed a placement until he went home. I got the opportunity to come alongside the mom and to co-parent with her and I would take her to her appointments and I would take, I would babysit him while, because you know, eventually they get to where they do, like overnights or two in a row, or a whole week or whatever. Well then, I started babysitting him while she had doctor's appointments, whatever it was.
Speaker 2:It was a great experience really you were teaching that lady how to be a mom yeah, and it.
Speaker 5:And it really like I was never averse to doing that either. I mean, that's part of the training is doing that. I was never averse to doing that because that's really fun it's like.
Speaker 2:It's very rewarding to do that part too. Come on, yeah, wow.
Speaker 5:It's just that a lot of parents don't allow that. They don't let you get that close Come on. They are so broken themselves for one thing they're in trauma um and you're, and you're a threat and you're a threat without even being a threat. I'm not meaning to be, no, I'm just there to take care of them you're.
Speaker 1:You're the one getting ready to get my kid from, especially whenever they find out, you've adopted yeah then they're like oh well, she wants to adopt my kid too, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5:So, and then we had Destiny's brother.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:What was that little guy's?
Speaker 3:name Anthony.
Speaker 5:Anthony. He, it was like a same mom, two different dads. The dad was trying but wasn't going to get it back, but the dad lived with his mom so and Anthony had lived there too, and so the grandma says, well, I'll adopt him. So then I advocated for that number one, because that's the right thing to advocate for number two. He wasn't really meshing in the family and so it would have been a really rough childhood and and parenthood yeah, and so this was best case for that.
Speaker 2:That's wisdom. Right there To go. Yeah, that's wisdom.
Speaker 5:And so we advocated for him. We made sure that we got lots of visitation time and everything and we still see him because we see Destiny's birth mom. We all get together twice a year for the mom to see both her kids.
Speaker 2:Come on.
Speaker 5:That's cool.
Speaker 2:Wow, you guys are really involved, Well, and I love that part of it too. That's the way to.
Speaker 5:And so does your dad. He really loves. We love being able because we know that our kids need. I don't ever want to stand in the way of my kids not knowing their birth families.
Speaker 2:I got a brother that I tried reaching out to one time and the adopt they were like why are you? Why are you wanting his life?
Speaker 5:you just want our money yeah, like what the heck dude I just want to talk to my little brother dude people, especially if they adopt and they pay out the money oh yeah it's a different mindset, yeah, well this one was an open one it was open, where I mean they paid money, but it was an open adoption where we got letters and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean and so we knew we followed along with his life you know what I mean, right and so it was natural for them.
Speaker 1:They knew alex, they knew, yeah, you know, they watched him grow up in pictures and stuff. And we went to california one time and kate and him were talking online they've on facebook or something they met and we're talking, you know, I mean. And so we get to california and kate's like hey, man, we're in california, we should meet up. And like 10 minutes later andrew's phone blew up really, oh yeah, what are you doing?
Speaker 1:you know that they cut us all connection yeah, we got, we lost everything we have not we've not heard from these people or got a photo about alex and he's got to be grown I mean he's a grown man.
Speaker 5:He's a grown man now.
Speaker 2:He's 25, 26 now I and he's got to be grown. I mean, he's a grown man.
Speaker 1:He's a grown man. He's 25, 26 now. I mean he's between Jade and Cade, so he's with Cade's 24. So he's got to be 25, 26.
Speaker 2:In his time, in his time he'll look out and reach out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we do.
Speaker 2:He's nothing like his parents. They're both brunette and blonde. He's a blonde-haired, blue-eyed boy. He's like why don't I look like?
Speaker 1:you guys, most kids will come around. I mean, they just want to know, yeah, well.
Speaker 5:I mean, my kids have always known they're adopted. We've had the best place to have those conversations I found out was in the car and the best person to ask the questions is my Valerie, and so we got a lot of it ironed out when they were maybe four, five and six years old.
Speaker 2:That's really good. Those are the most informative years. That's really good.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and we have all different situations. You know the big ones all come from the same birth. They have the same birth mom but they have three different birth dads. We did a lot of visiting with them at first. They've kind of gone away. I found that boys, my boys, they both have told me over and over I wish I came out of your tummy because they just are so connected, so loyal to mama. None of my kids really want to have much to do with their birth parents, except for Destiny because she sees her twice a year and she gets toys and she's young.
Speaker 2:Presents are her love language. Yes, they are.
Speaker 5:But like Levi and Val and Sally are just. It's not that they have animosity, they just don't have an interest, they have their life, they're're they're going, they're going places, yeah, they're going places, and we're their parents yeah and so I mean I I think the most unfortunate thing is that the birth dad's now sally's birth father is a stand-up guy.
Speaker 5:He didn't know about sally oh, she didn't tell him and so it was already severance already to happen and she, he was a john doe and so he didn't even, couldn't even respond to the publishing, because he was in the military he's in afghanistan serving the
Speaker 5:country going to talk about trauma, and he's not oh my yeah so he didn't know. But he knows Sally now. Yeah, and Bob and him connected. The birth mom, amy got them connected and then now I'm like Facebook with him and everything and so we've seen him. We've met him once. He comes out every January and we let Sally decide if she wants to see him or not. Yeah, and Sally's part of she's got like Native American blood, so there's tribal ties there.
Speaker 5:So we've always we want to wait until she's 18, because we don't, because there's tribal laws that she could be taken from us. So we just kind of keep ourselves distanced from that.
Speaker 5:But she's got benefits that are coming to her because she's and he is the first person to say she has this distance- from that, but she's got benefits that are coming to her because she's you know which is, and he is the first person to say you know she has this that she's entitled to because of her native american heritage. So she's got a lot on his side, but, like valerie, we don't even his.
Speaker 1:His name is so bland, like, so american, like you can't there's so many bill smith, yeah, so we can't even find him. Sorry, bill, I got a friend named bill smith, sorry sorry bill with one l um, and then levi's birthday.
Speaker 5:I just kind of like disappeared. Amen, um, you know, I don't know. It's just, we just try and do our best. Leave Dylan's family. They've His. He's getting a big bag.
Speaker 2:Oh, he's gonna be A football player, bro.
Speaker 5:He's 5 foot 1 130 pounds and he's only 11.
Speaker 2:He's gonna push people around, dude, come on, I knew he was a fighter, so I didn't know why, but yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:He's a big boy. Yeah, they all just seemed like they were just so young not too long ago. I know they grow up quick.
Speaker 5:I mean Destiny's nine. I mean she's still a tiny nine, she's like a tiny little squirt.
Speaker 1:I remember when you guys first got her with the helmet and all that.
Speaker 5:And her heart, the heart surgery and all that stuff.
Speaker 1:It's been nine years already.
Speaker 2:It's been through a lot man.
Speaker 1:What have you done for the last 10 years? Yeah, work.
Speaker 5:Yeah, Work. Bud.
Speaker 2:You have worked and worked and worked bud Thanks, thanks for the reminder. He is dude. It's six days a week, man. You're working for that shop bud. You're going to own that thing one day. You're putting your time in now.
Speaker 1:Come on, god move it along, lord, bless him, god.
Speaker 2:I pray yeah amen you're the one working it. No, so for me personally, there was a time where all those kids literally pissed me off. There was a time, literally, where I was mad. It's like F them, dude, look at him, he got his whole new family.
Speaker 1:Well, he told you that one time.
Speaker 2:Well, but it messed with me. And then it got to a point where it was like, well, thank God, they're getting this guy and not the guy that I got. And then now seeing the kids and where they're getting this guy and not the guy that I got, and then now seeing the kids and where they're going, it's like, man, thank God that they had him, I think, because who knows where those kiddos would have been with the mom and the three dads and it was like the thing is they all were going to be severed, so they were all going to foster care, they were all going to go to adoption.
Speaker 2:So the Lord, it's a good thing he put them in the right house. Yeah.
Speaker 5:You know, and he put them where they belong and because their life was never going to be, with their birth parents. No. Because that was the track they were on.
Speaker 2:And we've had people on this that talked about foster care. And there's some foster homes that are rough Right Exactly this. That talked about foster care, and there's some foster homes that are rough right exactly they're not treated healthy, right, yeah, and yeah, that's so just to.
Speaker 5:And also, I wouldn't have a family without those kids and you know it's like you said without them you're not gonna.
Speaker 2:He wasn't gonna put you in the harm's way to have a kid, so this opportunity was, here you go when I see good christian people take that path of being foster parents and adopted parents.
Speaker 1:I'm like thank you, lord, you know I mean our senior pastors did it at 55, like he said, we've had people on here, especially females, who are just god dude the abuse that takes place in some of those places, man, it it's just.
Speaker 2:Men get right, men yeah Jesus.
Speaker 1:So for good Christian people to step up and do that man, it's such a blessing for these kids Because there's people that are literally in it just for the money.
Speaker 5:Oh yeah, which is ridiculous because it's not that much money. I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 1:But if you can get any little bit of money, any little bit of help, you know what.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'll get $3,500 per kid per bed and I'll get $10,000 for the schooling.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Come on, man, at least your guys' heart were in it for the right reasons and you just wanted to love on kids. You know what I mean.
Speaker 5:I really just wanted kids.
Speaker 1:It really wasn't about fostering to be a good person at all, I don't know.
Speaker 5:I just wanted kids and but the fact that you're a good person that did it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean, I mean the lord, he dropped me into it.
Speaker 5:Yeah, um, or he dropped them into my life. Yeah, and I mean at first, you know, it was like babysitting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, I mean well, she said does anybody know that I'm here with these kids and I got them alone?
Speaker 5:and levi was one so he was an established. He came, as bob says, pre-programmed yeah you know, and it was a rough pre-programming- too he was severely neglected yeah and so that was not like as long as he's got a little newborn, you know. I mean, it took a lot of work to bond with that kid. And Valerie was cuddly and cute, you know a little chubby baby and Sally was again pre-programmed and she inherited some really strong ADHD. She just did and it showed up right away. Wow.
Speaker 5:And so she was talk about a pistol, and just what a run for my money. Yeah. To try to learn how to parent her. And, but each one builds on the next one because then I. I know I'm prepared for Miley, because Miley is also a run for my money, so yeah, have you gotten a?
Speaker 1:God, I hate to use this, forgive me for using this word, but have you gotten a dope baby yet? Oh, yeah, have gotten a. Okay, god, I hate to use this, forgive me for using this word, but have you gotten?
Speaker 5:a dope baby yet, oh yeah, weren't they all? Well, valerie was, but she was. Uh, we got her at four months, so she was already through withdrawal she's already weaned, yeah she did still still have some, some twitching going on and some things and then, um, I think some learning disabilities came from the whole thing, um which I mean which she's flour, because even though they get through the withdrawals they're still byproducts.
Speaker 1:Mental ADHD, things like that that are a byproduct of being.
Speaker 5:What I've learned is that because Dylan was exposed to heroin, meth and methadone, and then cigarettes and alcohol, so he was in the NICU for 21 days. 19 of those days he was on morphine. Wow to withdraw. Wow, he came home he was still in withdrawal. So we spent the next three months because that heroin takes forever to come out, oh yeah um, that's why treatment programs are 13 months yeah, and it was.
Speaker 5:So. We're sitting here at you know he's three months old, I'm still swaddling him and up with him I think my opinion, or my, is that she was probably using middle of the night, because 1.30 to 3.30 every night, like clockwork, he was withdrawing, wow, and it was just. And then you know, it was fine Like he was. He was a very rough baby, very like strong baby. Um didn't sleep well ever, but those were the hardest times. And um and and I've we've since learned that morphine, because they don't treat him with morphine like that unless it's like absolutely necessary.
Speaker 5:Now they do more swaddling, low light, that kind of thing, because morphine actually causes impulse issues, learning disabilities, yeah, all things he has, wow, all things that he is exposed to too much, much morphine if nothing else, yeah, yeah so yeah, he's, it's. I mean, he's a big boy, he's a sweetheart, sweetest heart you ever you got strong personality.
Speaker 2:Strong personality and a fighter, and a fighter in every, every single way.
Speaker 5:And so there's a lot of comes up against Bob, a lot, a lot of Bob's personality, even though he's not related to him.
Speaker 3:Old relationship.
Speaker 5:I imagine that what Dylan goes through is what you would have gone through if I had been there, or if your mom and dad had stayed together, because your dad just needs a wife. Yeah had been there, or if your mom and dad would stay together, because your dad just needs a wife. Yeah, um, I think that dylan sees a lot of that, what we call him daddy, a lot of that. So I don't think that it's not, don't think that we're in some sort of dream world where your dad's a different person.
Speaker 5:It's just that he's got a wife now to do it with and I'm a really patient person and, um, and he gives me a lot of freedom to just run the place. But it's you and dylan have a lot in common, uh, personality wise, because dylan and your dad have a lot of common. So I think that so I know you have heard through the whole being mad at the kids and mad at your dad for having a new family but it's not like some kind of dream world where Bob has changed.
Speaker 2:It's just stuff that I had to go through, stuff that I had to deal with. That's all it was. God was just changing me.
Speaker 1:How many kids do you have now?
Speaker 5:We have six in the house.
Speaker 1:Nice. Five of them are ours, all right.
Speaker 5:Miley is our foster still all right.
Speaker 2:Um, miley is our foster still. Yeah, you plan on doing more. Yeah, we'll just keep on. You heard him, dude. He wants a whole acreage and multiple houses and people, and so that's a little different because other people get involved.
Speaker 1:When you get to that, yeah, right now it's just personable in their house.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I mean so our, our house is full, you know, we we have um two 18 year olds, so we actually technically could take another one right now um, we don't know what's going to happen with miley yeah we, uh, she's.
Speaker 2:They're nearing the end of the case, but we and we do you guys want her to go back, or do you guys want to keep her?
Speaker 5:well, we want to keep her we believe the best thing for her is to stay with us yeah she's a completely different kid than she was whenever we got her yeah, how old is she?
Speaker 2:four, she's three, three.
Speaker 5:Yeah, she was two and a half. She's three and a half now and we've had her for 13 months now. Yeah, I mean, she has autism and so that was a lot of the problem of her being so delayed.
Speaker 1:High end or low end, middle level, two Really.
Speaker 5:Yeah, she couldn't speak, she didn't know her name, she didn't have any kind of like self, like being able to address herself, no ability. So some of it was the autism, some of it was just neglect.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 5:And.
Speaker 2:You got to teach them.
Speaker 5:You have to teach them how to do stuff and her parents, you know. They're addicts, they're having trouble, yeah, and so it's one of it's. This is one of those where, uh, bob and I are both like we're so sad to see their her parents not do what they need to do it's so with like val and levi, bob was out of it a lot.
Speaker 5:He was working full-time yeah so I went through this heartbreak and heartache of, you know, wanting to keep them and they're my kids and you know God, really, he really miraculously, because she actually relinquished rights to us and with same thing with Dylan. Dylan and Destiny were kind of like givens, even though I let the devil scare me. Yeah.
Speaker 5:With both of them, but that let the devil scare me with both of them, but I was that was me, yeah, but with Miley it's like you want people to succeed and you want them. You want to see them turn around and you want them to want their kid.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 5:And my gosh. They had two and a half years with this kid, so it's not like a brand new baby where they don't know her.
Speaker 2:They know her, yeah, and to see them not put the effort in, put the effort in for this baby.
Speaker 1:She's the most amazing kid, and so we have a friend who's on the other side of your situation and he lost both his boys, and seeing him go through the process, I mean, what they're asking of these people is not really that difficult I know you know what I mean? It's pee clean for 60 days. We'll let you see your kid. Yeah, be clean for four months. We'll think about giving them back be clean for six months. We'll give them back to you you know, I mean but on the addiction side of things, yeah the can't get through today One day.
Speaker 1:It's not just that, it's the humiliation, it's the, the shame and the guilt that comes with damn. I just got my kid taken from me and you're an addict. So your natural reaction is from being an addict is I go to get high. I don't want to feel this, I'm just going to get high. You know what I mean.
Speaker 5:Then you can't pee. Then you can't pee. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:And then you go to the thing. You see your kids and now you're like shame. I mean, on the other side of things, it's just this massive amount of shame and guilt that's being heaped on on these people and I couldn't imagine having to deal with that. Luckily, my you went through all the addiction that I've been through. Never was a thought of my kids ever being taken from me there. I couldn't imagine that shame and that guilt, me being an addict the way I was.
Speaker 1:If that was to happen, I can understand how that takes place because oh yeah, yeah, even just the shame of guilt of this, just being an addict, is enough to keep you in addiction, let alone losing your kid, and so it's. I don't know, man, it's. It's really a vicious. Vicious and kudos to to the system and for you know, taking care of the kids like that. But just on the other side of the perspective, it's just, it's not fun for that parent they're not out there having a blast they're trying to medicate and get through today to not want to feel that shame, because shame and guilt is heavy.
Speaker 1:It's a heavy burden to carry. I can speak from existence. It's a heavy burden to carry. Um, I can speak from, from existence it's. It's something heavy to carry that you are not designed to carry right so you're trying to carry that on your own it's.
Speaker 5:It's they're not having, they're not having a good time you know what I mean, and I like we watched that happen with dylan's parents and they just, they just left. They just knew they weren't going to be able to do this, and so they just left, and that was, for Dylan, the right thing to do, and with Miley, I think what it is, is we want them to.
Speaker 1:It is the right thing to do, because obviously these parents are not going to get naturally just healed, you know what. I mean. So it is the right thing to do for them to allow people like yourself to care for these kids and take them in. You know what I mean. I just wish the courts would find a better way to address the other side of things.
Speaker 5:You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:I'm not saying give their kids back to them while they're addicts. I'm just saying is there a way to help these people? You know what I mean? Because what they're literally doing is like go be an addict, we're going to take care of your kids and you just go live your life and we could care less about you. Well, and they?
Speaker 5:expect, at least with all of them. They expect them to follow a regimen, follow a like, because they don't have to. It's not just paying, I mean, there's also like counseling they have to go. Yeah, they gotta go to classes and they expect them to do that when they've not ever done that before yeah and can't even go to work dude, they can't even work
Speaker 5:or if they are trying to hold down a job like this, like the mom that we gave her, like her son she got her back and. I came alongside her. You know she's trying to do a job. Get her kid back go to classes all that stuff and you know like the case we're in right now, it's a case of abuse and domestic violence.
Speaker 5:So, there's a control factor in there, and so even if they, the one parent, wanted to get to a visit, the other parent is not going to allow it unless they take them, and so and all that, yeah, so so there's. There's just. It's evil and sinister in the way that this, and there are drugs involved too, but there's so much.
Speaker 2:Manipulation and control.
Speaker 5:Other abuse that Destiny Miley's gone through, and Miley's not an easy kid. So you get somebody who's super hyper-controlling like that having to deal with a kid who screams all the time. Maybe he doesn't even want to. Maybe he's happy for a quiet house, you know. So I mean, it's just, it's a really hard cycle to watch it is and, but I don't want so. On one hand, we're like well, this is good for miley, this is good for our family because we, we want to we want to raise my life so you know okay, so keep on not doing what you're supposed to do, but on the other hand.
Speaker 5:This is heartbreaking for them because she's amazing on the other hand. It's heartbreaking for her, because she knows what's going on because she's old enough to understand.
Speaker 5:Even two days ago she got herself into they didn't come to a visit and she got herself come a. They didn't come to a visit and she got herself, came home into a corner, wet herself between the freezer and the shelf in our room and was sitting there rocking and she calls me mom mom. She made that up herself. She's saying mom mom. She's literally doing this. Mom mom, daddy home, mom mom, daddy home.
Speaker 2:Because the autism was kicking in there. And so there's trauma every time they don't come Wow.
Speaker 5:And there's trauma. So she's being re-traumatized by the system and by people that she thinks she loves, and then she's fighting her feelings for us. Sometimes she comes home from a visit and I see her and she physically pushes me away because she's fighting these feelings for us. Sometimes she comes home from a visit and I see her and she like pushes me, like physically pushes me away because she's fighting these feelings of. I am fully attached to this woman.
Speaker 2:What am I doing?
Speaker 5:And she's old enough to have those feelings and to maybe not understand them, but those are real, and so this little baby is caught in the middle of a system of parents who want to take care of her, of parents who are trying but not trying. You know it's so sad and so messed up and I want it to be over for her. I want her to be permanently with us so that we can move forward we have another friend who's been.
Speaker 1:He was adopted when he was three and he talks about the um spirit of abandonment that is is on a it's a spirit of abandonment because there's this natural god is funny and how he creates a mom and a child, the connection they have the, the shared DNA that they have, the carrying of the child. I mean there's this natural bond before a child is even born that is established, that when that kid comes out it naturally knows that's mom bonded.
Speaker 1:And to have a mom who gives birth, automatically gives the kid away. This kid is already two days old. Experiencing this separation anxiety, experiencing this abandonment issue of where's this thing I've been attached to for nine months. I want this. I'm comfortable here with this. Where's it at, and it goes through this whole yeah.
Speaker 5:It's really messed up.
Speaker 1:And he's an adult now and he still struggles with that abandonment issue, even though he had foster, adopted parents who took good care of him. You know what I mean. He still has this mindset of this. I just call it a spirit of abandonment. It's the only thing I can think of.
Speaker 5:It's got to be a spirit, because valerie has the same thing happen with her and she and I are bonded, super close and um, like as if I had given birth, like we were just so close, and so she questions like why do I feel this way, mama? Why am I? She gets worried that I'm going to not, we go to my mom's every saturday. She will wake up. She's 18 yeah come downstairs to make sure I'm still there, because she's worried I'm gonna leave her. Yeah, why I? In no world.
Speaker 5:Would I leave her because she comes with me? Yeah, but she is, but and then it's that.
Speaker 1:It's that separation, yeah, and that's.
Speaker 5:There's an amygdala, amygdala in her brain remembers and unfortunately they also remember the trauma that happened in the womb, so that the the mess everything that happened with that, the dealing with all the other drugs that happened that, that also plays into it I tried to get him to understand that, that that so why you may be abandoned physically.
Speaker 1:Spiritually, you were never abandoned. You know what I mean and I'm trying to get him to focus more on the lack of spiritual abandonment that he has in his life, because God has always been there, versus focusing on the physical abandonment of being separated from your mom. You know what I mean, really good. And so, like he keeps talking, I'm like physically, yes, spiritually, no, you're not abandoned. Quit trying to get them to focus more on the spiritual aspect of you've never been abandoned. Your father has never the word even said the spirit of adoption allows us to cry out.
Speaker 1:Abba.
Speaker 5:Father. I mean, it is a spirit that is said, the spirit of adoption allows us to cry out of a father. Yeah, I mean we.
Speaker 4:It is a spirit that is what the spirit we are adopted by him.
Speaker 5:I mean, that blesses me so much whenever I think about our family and how he set up our family. But that's really a journey, yeah, to get through it is yeah, it is, hasn't been easy.
Speaker 1:no, it ain't easy't easy, man it's not easy, but for us.
Speaker 2:Is it worth it?
Speaker 5:Oh, yeah, yeah. So rewarding I believe by. Valerie's alley. Destiny and Dylan are the answer.
Speaker 1:Come on, yes, I think God that they have a safe place that they can process, conversate. We talk about it anytime you need to. I love that man. I'm scared of To you for that, it's just. But see, I enjoy that. Yeah, I enjoy it.
Speaker 5:I also. Really, we both really love keeping birth families in Like I have a plan already If we get to adopt Miley, I already have a plan for how we're going to see her parents. Um, I never, like I said before, I don't ever want to stand in the way of our kids parents, or at least their birth family. Dylan only knows his aunts and he knows two half siblings that he has um, but I don't want to stand in the way of that because I don't want to be that mom, that did that yeah but also it's a really um unique way to thing to facilitate yeah to sit there at a chick-fil-A.
Speaker 5:Dylan was probably the hardest one, because the last time I saw his birth mom was in the DCS office when I had to like because I would transport him to his visits. He only had three visits and he was newborn and I had to hand over to his mom and dad birth mom and dad and it was super hard for me to do because he was, I mean, you can't go through withdrawal.
Speaker 5:With a newborn I should have, you can't go through withdrawal. That's one of those things like so deeply bonding just me and him overnight and not just like completely attached, and he was so darling anyway, and so I hadn't seen her. So we, his brother, wanted, wanted. His brother takes care of her now like she's, you know he's, he's in her life yeah she found out that we see, that they see him.
Speaker 5:She wanted to meet him so we worked it out and everything and it was definitely hard to sit there front across from her yeah and knowing what she did to him, knowing what he went through, knowing the effects.
Speaker 2:Now because the reason I homeschool him is because of learning disabilities.
Speaker 5:It turned into the best blessing, though. I was able to tell her that because she was feeling all that shame and all that burden of what did I do to my kid? I was able to give her all the great things about Dylan and, yeah, maybe he has learning disabilities. Yes, he does have to take medicine for ADHD. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but he does this and he can do this. And look at his mouth looks just like yours and you know just. I mean able to just like and like, take care of her. And like feed into her life. That's so special.
Speaker 2:I fell in love with her. You're helping people right now there's literally going to be parents that are listening to this. You're helping right now.
Speaker 5:So his birth dad just got out of prison not too long ago and we've not, because he went to prison for armed robbery.
Speaker 1:Oh nice.
Speaker 5:And he's a violent kind of a dangerous person. Everybody in the family says don't let him near near dylan dylan doesn't need to be around him man and um.
Speaker 1:So we haven't come on you know, and we haven't, and we have, and he hasn't even tried either amen but I just think, someone like that might do something stupid yeah I know, kidnap him and take him.
Speaker 5:Yeah, exactly my kid, yeah, which is the reason that his family didn't take him Dylan's family didn't take him is because they figured they would steal him and, you know, get out of the state and everything. So yeah, I mean, there's those families, those parents too.
Speaker 2:that were just like okay, yeah, well, that's not happening and Dylan understands and knows and has no use for it anyway. So you all right, we've got.
Speaker 1:Thank you for talking about that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I didn't want to say that because yeah.
Speaker 2:It's a lot it's a blessing man, it's a lot, you know what?
Speaker 1:I mean, and just I just want to commend you for allowing these kids to have these conversations with you, oh yeah, and to be open and honest and to have those conversations.
Speaker 5:Kudos to you for that man well, thanks, although I can't imagine another way but I mean, I know there's other families that do that. I know there is but my would not. I would not be an authentic mom if I did that. I wouldn't be me for one thing.
Speaker 1:Like I said, I like to talk about things and I like airing things and I don't like but I think the way that you're open about the conversations and allow them to have conversations, why they're not curious, yeah, and want to go find out yeah, yeah it's because you're bringing it up.
Speaker 1:You're already having conversations rather than something. This is different when you raise a kid and all of a sudden you're 18 and oh yeah, by yeah, by the way you're adopted, oh, I can't even imagine. You know what I mean and they're like what the hell Now? They're like well, I've got to go find out who my family is. You know what I mean. So the fact that you're having honest, open dialogue with these children, dude, just, I can see the benefit in that, just in the conversations that you just had.
Speaker 5:How freeing them and taking any kind of burden off of them, especially if they're dealing with medical stuff or adhd or abandonment issues, so kudos to you for that. One thing I do, though, do is insist because we go through this. Who's like real mom? Like they don't, they'll they'll slip and say my real mom yeah, meaning birth mom, yeah, and I don't allow that because I'm the one doing all the real work. Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 2:And so I said I am your real mom and so I've maybe gotten a little mad at them a couple of times for calling birth mom.
Speaker 3:Birth mom birth mom, we can find another word if you like but I am the real mom because I'm really here, and the only one that doesn't understand that fully is Destiny.
Speaker 2:It's because she's got some she's got her own things that she's working through, right? Yeah, just intellectual stuff, come on.
Speaker 5:And she inherited some strong genetic disabilities that just are going to. We'll see how that plays out over time.
Speaker 1:Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. What were you going to?
Speaker 2:say, oh, you're good. No, yeah, it was just because we're through how she met dad, that whole thing, um, that we start bringing in the kiddos man. Um, we went through jade, um, we go into, we've got in through the kids, man, as they're growing older, let's go into Greece and then we'll go into the Greece trip well, greece is just big because I just did it it's not really that big in the grand scheme of life.
Speaker 5:It's just something I did, but it was life changing for you it was mindset changing, but it was definitely you change your life by changing your mind.
Speaker 2:True, we're almost 12 too. Come on buddy Transformation.
Speaker 5:We just went because Valerie is required to go on a field trip, on a missions trip, and, like kittens, required also at NBCA. They have different levels, different things you can do.
Speaker 2:As far as like what the parents can afford kind of thing, yeah, or what the parents are willing you know, so, like in this case, like if Kenan ever wanted to, we would pay.
Speaker 5:Like we paid for ours. We made it work for me and Valerie. We would make it work for Kenan. She can go to Greece if she wants to. Yeah, she can go to Greece if she wants to, but so Valerie has been at Liberty University Online Academy for high school. Because she's dyslexic. It makes it much easier for her to learn online because I'm right there with her.
Speaker 5:So I do a lot of her teaching, yeah, and so she, though, has had the dream, because we've been at North Valley Christian Academy since Levi was three. We've had a kid there since then, and I worked there for a while.
Speaker 2:A long time.
Speaker 5:We are very, very involved in that school.
Speaker 1:I lead the prayer team there.
Speaker 5:I mean, it's just, it's a Weren't you a principal there or something. I was the administrator for the preschool.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 5:Yeah, so it's an important part of our life and levi decided he didn't want to graduate from there. He wanted to just do the online thing and then go and move on and work on planes, like he has a plan and he's doing his man he's going places and it's great um but valerie has this she's got friends there, she's been in theater there, she's all along stuck with it in some form, and so she has the dream to graduate from MVCA.
Speaker 5:So we worked it out with them that we could transfer her as a transfer student, as if she had lived in Virginia and was just bringing her transcript to MVCA, as long as she's full time her senior year. So here we are, at her senior year, and one of the things she had to do was go on a missions trip, and my friends from our prayer team are the ones who do these trips to Greece. They're Greek, their families, the husband he grew up in Thessaloniki, wow.
Speaker 2:Relationships.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and she is from boston, but well, I think I I'm not exactly sure where, but her family's greek. They lived in boston. I know she grew up in boston, she came here to arizona and anyway, they end up they, they lived in greece for a while and they end up in arizona and that's where they're at right now and and their dream has been to, because their heart is for the Greek people and so their dream is to take people to Greece and show them Greece, show them the roots of our church, because the roots of the Gentile church is in Greece.
Speaker 5:But also the people, the people. And the ministries that go on there, and the difference between the Orthodox and the Evangelicals, which is a huge, like mind-blowing difference between the two, and just let people see what Greece is, because Greece is really like important, it's like second only to Israel. Yeah, in our faith.
Speaker 1:That's where a lot of the New Testament was written about Right.
Speaker 5:And Paul. He ministered in all the four big parts of Greece, and so it's just.
Speaker 1:Also, the New Testament was written in Greek, wasn't it? Yes, it was.
Speaker 5:Yes, so it's a. I mean in Paul, like he defended the gospel at Mars Hill in. Athens you know, right underneath the Parthenon. So it was just, it just seemed like a good.
Speaker 2:I mean, they're my friends and so it seemed like a good place, and valerie is a very big fan of mama mia I was like I I just remembered my big free, my big greek fat wedding, and I love that movie. Yes, give me one word and I'll show you how it goes back to Greek. There is great food and Greek food's amazing.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 5:But she. So she's like she heard Greece, she's like she thought you know, mamma Mia kind of. Greece and everything, and it just sounded like a good idea. And it was kind of expensive and we had to really work hard to pay for it. Yeah, but we did, and so that was the reason we went, it wasn't any. You know, no heart for missions on my part. Valerie, I told rowdy you guys should interview valerie. Her heart is for missions she's been a missionary since she was 12 years old she works with her pastor tom.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah, she's just she's gonna be a missionary I think that she'll end up. Yeah, she's going to be a missionary.
Speaker 2:He's in Hermesio Mexico right now. He's been in Cabana. He goes all over.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 1:He was our missions leader here until he stepped down and started full-time mission. He got off of staff and went into full-time missionary. And he's been to Uganda. Cuba, cuba All down through Mexico Cabo, cuba, all down through mexico cabo, um yeah he was in what's that other one that? Was in africa that he goes to you. Go on to haiti, not nigeria nigeria yeah yeah, yeah I just.
Speaker 5:I mean, you know, we're supposed to be missionaries right here where we got you know, but there is a good, a good um. We read a one article she was having to write for liberty, about she's having to argue, missions and just the idea of worldwide missions.
Speaker 1:AC shut off. I think so Okay All of a sudden it got real quiet. I got a weird face.
Speaker 2:I'm like what.
Speaker 1:Well, there was this constant no, it's like not there. I'm like what just happened, dude?
Speaker 2:We're all going to die One day. Sorry, jesus, like not there. I'm like what just?
Speaker 3:happened, dude, we're all gonna die one day, sorry, jesus. Oh my god, something's shiny, something's shiny, I got distracted.
Speaker 2:I smell food. Oh my god we're getting hungry.
Speaker 3:Oh my god, I apologize you're good, bro.
Speaker 5:That's why we went on mission On the trip in the first place Was just to do that, but it was a good trip and I just saw them pouring out their lives For their people.
Speaker 1:That's beautiful. Your friends or the people in Greece?
Speaker 2:No, the Greece people Taking of these refugees bro.
Speaker 5:So it's kind of just news that their economy is in the toilet in Greece and they have a refugee crisis going on and it's because just their location in the world and they opened their ports, they funnel 80% of Europe's refugees through greece. Oh wow, so they have these camps. So we were in athens mostly and they have camps set outside, set up outside just full of refugees, and we just heard testimony after testimony of greek people who, who love the greeks, and then what they want is to get the Orthodox to understand the salvation message and that they need a salvation experience. So this is not just you're not just born Christian.
Speaker 5:And that's what their heart and everything about them, their body, everything about them is like I want my brothers to be saved. And yet the Lord and the Lord is directing them towards the refugees. And I told my mom the other day it's kind of like the way Paul remember he had remember he wanted to go into Asia. Yeah.
Speaker 5:And the Holy Spirit kept stopping him yeah. And then he had that dream of somebody on the shore of Macedonia saying come help us yeah. And it's kind of like the Lord's doing that with these Greek people. Wow.
Speaker 2:They want nothing more than to help their people, and God's like no help these.
Speaker 5:Do this instead. Wow, and it was just. It's just. I think that's the biggest thing I got out of it was they pour out their lives and I poured out my life there too.
Speaker 1:What is that buddy? I heard you opening something over there, my grease magnet, oh nice.
Speaker 2:She gave me. I always ask, whenever I see people going overseas, anybody that's listening to the podcast you go overseas, please bring me back a refrigerator magnet.
Speaker 1:That's like stone.
Speaker 2:Or marble. I think yeah. So when you?
Speaker 1:say Orthodox in church. We're talking like we read in the Bible.
Speaker 5:So the Orthodox are.
Speaker 1:Where people are still like, stuck by tradition, and the new people are spirit-led.
Speaker 5:So the way they explained it a lot. It's almost like it was scripted, Like everybody was going to say the same thing. Only there's no way they could have been. Because this is their experience. So when you're born Greek, you're born Orthodox. Yeah. And you are. Christianian, yeah, and so it's a crit.
Speaker 2:In their eyes, it's a christian nation it's like a jew you're born a jew, you're born a jew, and so they don't.
Speaker 5:To try to have a salvation conversation with them makes no sense to them, because they know christ, he's on their wall yeah on a crucifix and they just, it doesn't compute with them it's just religion.
Speaker 2:They were born.
Speaker 5:They were born they're greek, they're orthodox, they're christian. This is just how it is. But the evangelical christians are the ones who actually like have a born again experience, experience, yeah, born again and so that's a very um gosh 0.9. I can't, I'll get it wrong.
Speaker 2:What the very small, super small, super small are evangelical the rest
Speaker 5:of the country is orthodox wow and um that's kind of heartbreaking it's really sad and the the organized the place we stayed. It was called cosmo vision center and it's like a retreat center for whoever they do weddings there, they do yeah, camps there, whatever um they, but they're, they're evangelicals and it was started by a group, a greek group in america, in missouri, who started that that back in the 80s and um, it's a really great place.
Speaker 5:That's where we like slept ate everything you know and it's a really great place, but that's where they have. Like, they brought refugees in and they had church for the moms and we watched the kids oh, wow and um special that night, or no, sunday night. So we went to church and then sunday night we had a. It's an international church and so there was americans there, greeks, a german couple, are they?
Speaker 1:speaking English.
Speaker 5:They speak in English and in Greek. The great thing about that church is it actually felt like the closest to PCC I've ever felt. It just felt like heaven kind of. That's what it's going to be like. They put the lyrics to the songs in English and then Greek, and then they flip it greek and english. So you know, everybody got their time and they were very common songs, so I could sing along in english, even because they were song, their worship songs.
Speaker 5:I knew yeah it was really good and there was a great message and, um, we went and like, helped out, they have ministries that help the homeless and they help. Um, oh my gosh, the best thing we did was, uh, they took me and uh, there's five of us plus antony is the. Is the man that of the couple that he's the husband? We went to this ministry that they help prostitutes get out of prostitution. Now it's legal there yeah so it's really hard to get them to get out of it.
Speaker 5:Yeah, a lot of them that are in there because of oppression. Yeah, their families put them there, they were trafficked there, whatever Really hard to get them out they're. What they do is they go in as like social workers. They say you know, we'll help you get doctor visits, we'll you get doctor visits, we'll help you whatever they need. Yeah, or you can come and talk, well, you, you know, we'll just come hang out and make jewelry or you know whatever. And so they do whatever they can to like get into their life. And then they start trying to like tell them about jesus.
Speaker 5:Teach them about jesus. Once they're saved, then we can get you a job. We can get you and just try to rescue them yeah, amen it takes work it's a lot.
Speaker 1:It takes building relationships yeah.
Speaker 5:So, um, what they wanted us to do was go walk and pray in the district, in the brothel district. So it was so, as I let valerie come and her, her best friend, was there we got permission from her mom. Her mom had to stay home. So it's val and mercedes, and then me and another mom and a grandma, and then and tony and um all you girls and tony, and then tony, yeah and then the lady that was taking us to this district, and so we we walked.
Speaker 5:It was like maybe like a two-minute walk from their center, which is in the like heart of athens, okay, um the cosmo place no, this was just no, this was a different place, oh, the ministry. The ministry that we were at Okay. Walking. You can't like pray like you're praying, you can't like circle up and you know, bow your heads and even have like a fervent prayer. You got to just kind of stand there because the traffickersickers, the, the madams, they're all watching to see who the heck you are.
Speaker 5:You're strangers in their area and so you just kind of have stand like you're talking and having a conversation. So we did that. We were just on the corner, it was. That part was weird, but you know whatever. So I started walking, we started walking in a group and we stayed together. Um, the way it is, there is it's kind of like, uh, two rows of stores, storefronts, and then an alley down the back would be like the service alley.
Speaker 5:So, like you know, for deliveries or whatever only those doors that would be like for deliveries are the brothels, yeah, and if the light's on, they're white lights. If the light's on, it's open for business. As soon as the light goes off it's closed because it's full. That's just the way it is. So we started walking down one street and you could see them over here and it felt weird, but it just felt quiet and just felt kind of like off. We turned and we're praying, but you really could only pray under your breath you couldn't like, yeah, pray out loud.
Speaker 5:So then we turned down the street.
Speaker 1:Is it busy? Like busy streets?
Speaker 5:yeah, cars everywhere. Uh, we saw a cop tourists walking around.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's pretty busy, it's not, not too it's not just these girls over there, and then you guys on this side. You don't see girls at all. All the girls are in the inside.
Speaker 5:There's men standing outside, not the patrons they're just like guarding the place or they're whatever they're they're doing they're like a lot of foot traffic, car traffics outside, so their technical name is john's. Yeah on On the first the first street we were on, it was traffic, cars and everything. But we turned down the second street which is like the service alley. It's a gravel road and it was like the whole world went silent. Really. It was. It was like matrix kind of. It was like the air was going on either side of you.
Speaker 5:It was that oppressive. The evil was so, so tangible and it felt like In the alleyway. In the alleyway.
Speaker 2:That's where all the girls are going in and out, and the guys but, like I said, the girls aren't there, you don't see the girls.
Speaker 5:You just see the men, and it was probably about as long as, probably as long as like the street that we lived on on UG. That long, so it felt like we were walking an hour. Wow, time stopped. Yeah.
Speaker 5:And I was praying in the spirit. I know Valerie was praying in the spirit as we talked. Later I found that Mercedes was saying the rosary because she's raised Catholic. Later I found that mercedes was like saying the rosary because she's raised catholic. Um, that was like the. The most you could do was pray under your breath. Even though I am filled with the spirit and a powerful prayer, that was the most I could do, that the oppression was so strong. We couldn't.
Speaker 5:I couldn't go farther than just like this um and it was like I said felt like we were just walking in this, like silent, like your ears, it was like you had your hands over your ears and and every door had a man standing outside of it and they would follow us as we walked by was super menacing. Look, and I've got two teenage girls in the middle of our group like we circled around them kind of unconsciously. I'd never do it again, but um, and then we saw like a couple guys come out, pat themselves on the back proud of themselves had to follow them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was a good one bro I'll meet you back here same place, same time.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and they're young guys turns out that it's sin because it's legal there, it's not really frowned upon. A lot of people take young boys there for their first experience. Oh. God.
Speaker 2:It's just not. Hey son, I got.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just heard you say this is a Christian country and they're taking their men to a brothel for the first time I'm like what? There's something missing man.
Speaker 5:Well, you should have seen some of the stuff I saw in the marketplace. And I'm like what is something missing, man? Well, you should have seen some of the stuff I saw in the marketplace and it's full of idol worship, and I mean the place. Yes, it's the birthplace of the Gentile church, but it is also the birthplace of the polytheist whatever. So it's not like those things still hover over and those spirits still rule. Those things still hover over, oh yeah, and those spirits still rule, but for God.
Speaker 1:This is I'm going back to this Orthodox evangelical thing right For a country that has this mentality of I'm born a Christian, you know what I mean. But yet to be so and blinded and misguided to what's really taking place, is that's scary. That they can consider themselves to be Christians but yet darkness runs rampant, completely yeah. And the things that take place, like Sodom and Gomorrah, in a nation that considers themselves I'm born Christian.
Speaker 5:And we're a Christian nation. Oh, geez yeah.
Speaker 1:That's definitely something.
Speaker 5:It was eye-opening. Yeah, man, and that was probably the most like.
Speaker 1:But how many people do? I don't want to say that we know. But how many people here in America that go to church, that?
Speaker 5:are. Oh, it's the same thing here Are not. Yeah, you know what I mean I mean you go into any because, like I said, this was inner city athens and which is considered to be like one of the safest cities in america or in europe as far. Like I looked it up because we were walking around at night there and I'm like how safe are we?
Speaker 5:and it turns out we were very safe but the same stuff goes on all the time. You know, it's just that this is where we live and so we're not taken into those districts to see it Like here we were tourists in Greece and Christian tourists, and here we're at this ministry, let's go see the very worst. But at the time I thought what have I brought Valerie into? Although she can handle it, she's so mature and that's why I want her to tell her story to you guys, because she's got an even better way to say it, but it turns out the other group, because there was just a few of us that were hand-picked to go do this.
Speaker 5:The rest of the group was over there handing out blessing bags to the homeless, stepping over piles of feces. Oh, wow. People were shooting up. So it's not like we were seeing this horrible thing and the other group was going to have ice cream. You know there's there's stuff there's a lot of horrible going on, and so, yeah, you don't have to go to Greece.
Speaker 2:Jade just met me over at Identifreed in Phoenix that's what she was telling me and after I got done preaching there, a whole bunch of them got on the van and went out into the strip and ministered to the strip.
Speaker 5:Yeah, the minister of the women but, but I was, but you don't. You don't have ministries, unless you go seek it out here in america, you don't have you're not gonna see there's not a lot of opportunities to just hey, let's go see the worst part. So we live our late daily lives not even being aware that's going on. Yeah, and I'm sure that's the same way in greece. I'm sure there's plenty of beautiful places yeah it's just that on this trip we got to see some stuff.
Speaker 1:I took kaiten to downtown phoenix one time let her see cass I did, I did, and she's like why are we, bro, lock the doors, dad?
Speaker 2:I'm like no, I just want you to see the real, you to see yeah real life.
Speaker 1:You guys act like we have it horrible out here and we're living in this poverty level type thing, when we're really living a good life. Yeah, your friends are more richer than we are, but look at these people that are have tents on the side of the road, you know, I mean, and we came to a stoplight. She's like you're not really gonna stop here, are you?
Speaker 2:get out, say hi but.
Speaker 1:I wanted to see, she needed to see so she could understand that we actually have a pretty good life my dad sent me to India so that I could figure that out.
Speaker 2:You're going to India, boy. You're going to straighten up.
Speaker 1:So when you say your mindset changed, what about all that? What changed?
Speaker 5:It's the way the people minister to the people there and I was on a missions trip to Mexico that time. It was fun and we helped. We did a vacation, bible school, we did. It was very lighthearted. This was some serious no downtime. You are working all the time You're either working or you're walking to go see something that means something to your Christian heritage. I mean, they don't give you time to rest, which is great, but I literally poured myself out in Greece.
Speaker 2:Come on.
Speaker 5:Come on. And I have never, except for pouring myself out for my family, I haven't done that in that capacity before, haven't done that for in that capacity before. Yeah, and so, knowing that those ministries, that we saw are doing that every single day for people that they don't even want to do it for they, you know, or that they do now. They love them now, but they didn't.
Speaker 1:The lord had to break their hearts for them I just think there's, there's me and ratty did that for a couple years yeah walking, driving around handing out food boxes.
Speaker 2:I remember that.
Speaker 1:Parks.
Speaker 5:And.
Speaker 3:I just Special.
Speaker 5:Those people that do the work Very very amazing people, those people who are sitting there, you know, for 30 years and just keep on doing it. They never give up. You know what's funny, though?
Speaker 1:But you'll have people who I got to drive 45 minutes to go to church.
Speaker 5:I know.
Speaker 1:While there are people that are literally out there giving hours of their time to the people that really you know what I mean.
Speaker 5:Western civilization church is pathetic, it's pathetic, it's not. It's not.
Speaker 1:It's pathetic.
Speaker 5:We have no backbone.
Speaker 1:I'm glad you said it. If we don't have ac or cushy chairs to sit in, I ain't going there and I believed that before I went to grace I am like I have got a dismal view of the church in general.
Speaker 5:I mean like not not everybody, you know. I mean I feel like there's, but yeah, the american church is really there's a reason why the american church is is church is really there's a reason why the american church is is losing people sick.
Speaker 1:The decline and attendance in the american church is is rapid. No, yeah, hypocrisy. You got all these people who talk one way, live another way. They're not seeing, you know. I mean, I tell people all the time. You remember when americans started wanting to go become uh is? Yeah, it's because they saw people who were willing to die for what they believed in. While we have American people in church here in America that won't even give up a Saturday to go serve at a ministry Right, because that's what college football is on.
Speaker 5:You know what I mean. Right, I definitely know what you mean and that's what I.
Speaker 1:And then we're surprised when the church starts to decline.
Speaker 5:Right, exactly.
Speaker 1:It's like how are you shocked? You're getting real now, bud. I don't get the shockness of it, though. It's like how are you shocked that the church is in decline when the church is not active?
Speaker 5:Not doing anything. Not doing anything, that's the church.
Speaker 1:Outreaching.
Speaker 5:Not being the church at all, and it's the church outreach and being the church hello, and that's what I.
Speaker 5:I guess that is what was, because they have such fervency for their people, for the, for the greeks, for the greeks, and I don't see a lot of people saying americans, for americans like I mean, we are america and I mean like you know, bob's like super america but he's what you call a nationalist, a jesus loving usa guy but this fervency they have for for their people, and then they're willing to pour out their whole life and come to the table she follows. She's great then they're willing to pour out their whole life for other listen.
Speaker 2:Listen to the Lord, yeah.
Speaker 5:And do it's just, it was.
Speaker 2:That's laying down your life. It is that sacrifice man.
Speaker 5:It's pouring out the whole cup and I guess for I asked I came home Like how can I keep this in me? Going yeah. And, of course, I'm a foster parent, and so the first thing I think was, like you have one in your house, I mean kiddos I mean, I am serving my you are and you're doing a foster parent.
Speaker 5:That's one of the most important jobs raising them kiddos well, but the thing is it's like your dad's always saying, like I need to go take a nap or I need, like I need to rest. Personally, you know he worries about my, my kidneys, or, and I kind of got into a thing where I was like, well, what about me? What about my? You know I do need to be taking care of myself. It's not that I don't need to take care of myself. I do need to go to sleep. Whenever I need to sleep, I need to do that, but my heart needs to be to pour out for whatever.
Speaker 2:So if I can go walk.
Speaker 5:oh my gosh, so much walking on that trip. If I can go walk and walk and walk all day long, then I certainly can get the dishes done, because doing the dishes is serving my family. You know, it's just that's what the mindset change was like. Okay, right now the Lord has me taking care of my family and teaching my kids, and that's what he wants me to do he hasn't shown me anything else, right now, In the future.
Speaker 2:yes, we're going to, we want to do orphanage or whatever, but right now, he didn't put on your heart to make little hygiene bags and go pass them out on 27th Ave. He didn't tell you to go and pray a prayer walk over the neighborhood.
Speaker 5:He's never ever put that. I mean he might, might, but he hasn't yet right now. I mean, I know well and I was walking. So we got a really cool opportunity at the end to go to the idra island, which is where I got that magnet. And it's a beautiful island, it's just tiny. There's no cars on the island.
Speaker 5:They it was cool watching them like roll their cement cart to go fix a cobblestone, you know it's a very cool island and I was walking with um them around to the beach because we're going to let the kids swim, and they asked me what I think because it was the last day of the trip. What I think, and I said all I can think, is that the Lord hasn't told me to go help the homeless. There's refugees in Arizona. He hasn't given me some heart for them right now or some pathway, even he hasn't shown me what to do. But he has foster care. He has kids in my heart and if I could take I'm totally serious, if I could take every single kid and put them in my house, I would, I would.
Speaker 2:And we would do a good job with it.
Speaker 5:God sees you. So it's something. Yeah, I would, and I would.
Speaker 2:we believe you and we would do a good job with it. God sees you. God sees you.
Speaker 5:So it's something with that.
Speaker 2:Okay, I just kiddos yeah.
Speaker 1:I heard one plants, one waters, one reaps a harvest. So while you're doing what you're supposed to be doing, you know what I mean. Until God says otherwise, keep doing what you're doing and do it with all your heart. Yeah, because there is somebody else out there who's doing that. Hopefully, you know what I mean. Until your time comes and God says otherwise, stay the course, man. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's what I felt when you were talking. That's what God said One plants, one reaps. You know what I mean?
Speaker 5:And you're doing yours. Yeah, you know, I mean, until he says otherwise, what you're doing is is a great ministry, I told you that earlier it's a great ministry. He's always just led me personally from thing to thing to thing. Yeah, whatever it was, and so I'm just gonna let him keep doing that. And I mean in the, in the process, I'm raising a, I've raised a flight mechanic a plane plane mechanic.
Speaker 2:Come on World changers man.
Speaker 5:What he could possibly do you know, knowing how to, and he wants to learn to fly too. A missionary, yeah, a vet.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 5:Veterinarian. I mean what?
Speaker 1:If God ever puts it on your heart to do something, let us know. We know a lot of people that we can point you to.
Speaker 2:Man Okay, Institute man okay, yeah, exactly, do we still have the non-profit? Does dad still have a ministry? If somebody wanted to sow a seed into what you guys are doing, you guys, you don't have that anymore. Okay.
Speaker 5:I have a business that I use for the um, the homeschooling, because it helps us. You know we have a non-profit.
Speaker 1:when you guys are ready, okay.
Speaker 2:Speak life, let's go Speak life orphanages. Let's go. We're going to have a podcast a clothing company, orphanages men's and women's.
Speaker 1:Thrift store.
Speaker 2:You're going to see speak life everywhere. Jesus yeah.
Speaker 3:I can't wait for that time in life, dude, It'll be good baby.
Speaker 1:It'll be, awesome bro. It'll be really good, god made it clear to me just these next three years is my job, just to make sure the shop stays afloat. Get the shop in my possession. He'll expand it, he'll make it what it's supposed to be. But we got a lot of stuff we got to do for the Lord man you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:And it starts with homes, it starts with the strip store, it starts with just getting people right with God, getting these dope beans off, dope these people on the streets, off the streets, getting them in the church Getting them in recovery meetings.
Speaker 1:God showed us a while back, man, that if we are a three-part bean a while back man, that if we are a three-part being, just like God is three in one, we're three in one. We're soul, spirit, body. Okay, to truly heal a person, you have to hit all three areas, all three. Amen. You can heal a spirit, but if a body is still broken, it can't really do much.
Speaker 2:I was healed and strong in Jesus, but 350 pounds you can heal a soul which is mind will and emotions.
Speaker 1:But if the spirit is not right, it's still not right. It takes these three areas to heal a person and for them to be truly beneficial and active for God. It's get your bodies right, eat right, exercise. Get your mind right. It's counseling.
Speaker 3:It's CR, it's get your emotions under control and how to do you and get right with god, yeah and these homes that we have are going to have these three aspects and god has already made it very clear.
Speaker 1:He's going to bring people alongside of us who who are are strong in these areas. Yeah, there are going to be counselors out there, like I've got doctors what you're doing fitness coaches. I want to help you, you know mean, and we've got people who are in fitness that are like God's going to bring it all He'll bring it all.
Speaker 5:You know what I mean. He knows who he's going to get them.
Speaker 1:But you can't See a lot of these ministries. They heal one aspect, they don't heal all three. Right, aspect.
Speaker 2:Man, yeah, it's gonna be fun. I can't wait. I was gonna ask her about what she's hoping for in the future, but she said that god really hasn't let her in anything other than the orphanages and stuff in the future. But man, right now she's kind of.
Speaker 5:I mean, I hope I get to be a teacher again you know, I hope I get to go in the classroom again, um you're in the classroom every day already I know I am yeah that's the best, and it's one she designed.
Speaker 2:It's my classroom.
Speaker 5:It has everything.
Speaker 3:I need Get in the classroom. Yeah, it's the best I love that.
Speaker 2:I just heard her yelling at the kids.
Speaker 1:I mean look at a person gets a whole classroom. You're blessed man, you're the principal, you're the teacher. Yeah, yeah, and I homeschool Dylan. Yeah.
Speaker 5:And then Valerie and Sally are still in high school. So I do a lot of with Valerie especially. But my nephews, Cubby's kids, their middle son has a tough time at school behaviorally, Just a really tough time.
Speaker 2:His name's Bash. What do you think, dude? He's hitting stuff and throwing things, so let's start it. Things, bash, relax.
Speaker 3:I wish you could just say that it started out just him.
Speaker 1:I just saw Bam Bam.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's like Bam Bam, Bam, bam Bam.
Speaker 3:With his club.
Speaker 2:You guys named him Bash. What do you expect?
Speaker 1:There's something to a name there really is Right. And then the kid Rowdy, what do you expect? There's something to a name there really is Right, and then your kid Rowdy, watch what you get. This dude will go on the sports radio and they're like he sure lived up to his name. I'm like you have no idea, dude, they're my best friends.
Speaker 2:I love those guys.
Speaker 5:Well, I started out with him, and then Brock, his little brother, came along too. So I have three boys in my little school every day. They're all fourth and fifth grade and you know some days are easier than others. Yeah. But yeah, I get to teach them every day.
Speaker 2:Come on.
Speaker 5:I get to do my own lesson planning, all that. But I do hope to go in the classroom again because I really miss that.
Speaker 3:It was really fun.
Speaker 5:But other than that, I just really want to see what the Lord has us do with foster care. I would take, like I said, any kid. We have room for another one we could. We just haven't, yet we don't really have the room. God knows.
Speaker 2:God only knows man.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, Amen, Well thanks man.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, god knows, yeah, god only knows man. So yeah, amen, well, thanks man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was awesome, it was really good and I'd say you're more on the younger crowd than the older one I told you, I talked, I told her beforehand. I was like it seems like the older people are, they just kind of breeze over their life and kind of less detail. But then the younger the people are, the more detail we get and it kind of the longer the podcast. I was like, well, three and a half hours, she's more on the younger side I told her 60, 70s, hit the highlights you put her in.
Speaker 5:I just don't understand. Seven years, rowdy, that's all that means you're old, rowdy.
Speaker 1:You prayed he told me that day I'm almost, I'm like no, you are 40, you're not almost anymore.
Speaker 2:You are. We already had that birthday party, buddy, jesus. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you coming on. Mom, I know that there is people who are going to hear this um, that didn't quite get the full story man or may have their own think about things went.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna be cool to for jade to hear this with your dad my dad, yeah, you know, I mean it'll be good, um, and there's people that I'm doing life with currently that are fostering and an adoption process and dealing with kids, and some of them ain't quite having the easiest time. So I think that you brought some healing yeah, and maybe they'll get to some things to hope for in the future with the ones that they're raising. Yeah, yeah, what are you thinking, buddy um?
Speaker 1:yeah, I just see you want to pray. I do, okay, but I see god's being patient until these three oldest ones are yeah, fly the coop, man, not really fly the clue, but they're just kind of off doing their things school, college, things like that. Then I see, at that time god's gonna open the door for some more kids for you man, you know. I mean he's just I think he's waiting for you to see these three finished and yeah not to ever be finished, but just to a place where they're sustainable on their own.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, or at least off to college where, like you said, there's more room. So, man, just Less day to day, be faithful, be diligent, know that God sees you, know that what you're doing makes a difference. Cool, it matters Big time, jesus. And he said that your heart is full. Yeah, that's what I got, anyways.
Speaker 2:Oh, you want me to pray? Okay, right, yeah, buddy. Yeah, long day. Guys work day to hours.
Speaker 1:Come up here three hour podcast people people don't understand that these moments here, that we're having are really holy spirit they don't, and so after a couple hours, man, you get a little kind of drunk in the spirit.
Speaker 2:Unless you're sitting in these seats and you've done this, it's real. Tomorrow morning you're going to feel this. You'll wake up tomorrow and be like whoa.
Speaker 1:Well, people don't understand. We just went through three and a half hours of warfare.
Speaker 5:Kicking the devil in the face you know that's true, because I came in here, you guys, not really knowing me very well, even you, Rowdy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I didn't know a lot of what you said, not really knowing me.
Speaker 5:I mean I barely ever. Not that I wouldn't want to talk, but I just haven't. Yeah. And I don't tell parts of our story very much yeah. I don't say certain, especially about my kidneys. I don't talk about that yeah. And so I'm a pretty um two-dimensional figure. Yeah if you don't talk, yeah if I and I don't talk. So I feel like when your dad came and did it and talked and I thought, well, there's so much that he got out that I'm that, I knew yeah I knew almost all.
Speaker 5:I think there was one thing I had not heard before. I was so glad for him to get to other people to hear that you know his actual, real story. Yeah. I thought, yes, I'm sheltered or whatever, I don't get myself in any trouble. But, like I said, there's a real story. Yeah. Just because you don't get in trouble doesn't mean you don't have a story.
Speaker 5:And so it's. I want to talk. I want to be able to people to hear that there's real stuff that goes on in a person's life and how they break and how you know Jesus is very real to everybody. He has a. He doesn't make you without a plan for your life.
Speaker 1:And so even the pain the.
Speaker 5:Hard things especially. Yeah, but he does, that's usually where the purpose is. Yeah, right in that. So I mean there's yeah, so it's good for someone like me to to get in and talk to you.
Speaker 1:Well, welcome to eight mile man.
Speaker 2:You just eight miles, yeah, dude the devil ain't got nothing on you. You done what, dude? I shared it all but I don't.
Speaker 1:But I want to go back to this warfare. People don't really understand that just what we just took place is warfare man yeah, you know, if you, if you look at revelations 12, what is it revelation?
Speaker 2:12, 11.
Speaker 1:We overcome the enemy by the power of the blood, the word of our testimony and loving not our life unto death yeah, yeah, when we get to that point where we're talking and we're sharing and we're telling the devil, we're giving them the two number ones you know what I mean and we're like I don't care, dude, you're not going to keep me silent, I'm going to tell my story, I'm going to beat you and I'm going to take every weapon you have and take it back.
Speaker 1:And people don't understand that. That's what just happened. So if I look a little groggy, that's because I was just battling for a little while. But to me it's warfare. It is when we come here, we're battling. We're telling the devil not today. You're a liar. We're taking our story back.
Speaker 5:Taking back our power in our life too.
Speaker 1:He decides he wants to try to say well, you don't have anything to talk about.
Speaker 5:I can turn around and say, well, I just did three and a half hours of talking about what Jesus has done for me. Look what God's done for me. He wants to silence us.
Speaker 1:For me being an addict. The last thing he wants me to do is go tell people. I used to be an addict.
Speaker 2:I met this man Jesus and now, I'm not an addict.
Speaker 1:That's the last thing he wants us to do, because now that validates jesus, validates what he did on the cross, it validates that he's real and he changed his life. So, shh, don't tell nobody that. Keep that hidden, jesus. Anyways, let me pray for you. I had to get back in my war face thank you lord.
Speaker 2:Come on back, buddy, come on back. Oh man, thank you lord. Oh god, thank you god. Man. Father, I just, oh man, thank you Lord.
Speaker 1:Oh God.
Speaker 1:Thank you, god man, father, I just you never cease to amaze me, god man, you are never short on stories. You're never short on how you transform people, god. And so, father, I just honor you, I thank you and I praise your holy name. You are the creator of heaven, you're the creator, your holy name. You are the creator of heaven, you're the creator of the earth, You're the creator of all of us, god, and I just thank you for that, lord. I thank you for your daughter, mandy. Lord, I thank you just for her story. God, I thank you for just the courage it takes, the strength that it takes to come.
Speaker 2:Thank you Lord.
Speaker 1:And share and open up, even, and share and open up, even talking about things with the kidney God. I know that's not a thing she likes to talk about, god, but we know through CR, God, that you can't heal the things that we keep secret, God. So I thank you, Lord, by putting that out there, God, and allowing people to hear. Healing is coming, People that can pray God.
Speaker 2:Jesus.
Speaker 1:That the manifestation of healing in their kidneys is here, god. So I thank you, lord, just for that strength and that courage to you, lord expose what the devil is trying to do in her body, and we say that you are a liar that jesus still heals today, be healed. You are the same god yesterday, today and tomorrow. God kidneys work and you said, those who have faith, just like the woman with the issue of blood you said it was not your garment, but her faith that made her well god so we would stand here today, god, and unite in our faith the three of us, god and our listeners, saying that
Speaker 2:mandy's body is well, god jesus so I thank you, lord, that the next time she goes to a blood thing.
Speaker 1:God or goes to get something checked out. God that they're going to be like something's shifted, something's changed.
Speaker 2:God, what happened? What'd you do, jesus?
Speaker 1:She'll know, god, that it was this very moment that, when she exposed the lie of the devil saying that her kidneys were faulty, and we stood on faith of Jesus and his healing power and said it is done in Jesus' name, thank you, god. So I thank you for the courage to do that, god.
Speaker 1:Ooh-wee Lord, I just thank you for man, how a woman who was raised in a good Christian home, god, it lasted 23, 24 years before she found a place of brokenness and in that brokenness she truly encountered the living God. She truly encountered our Savior Jesus, when she cried out and you were there and you answered God. So I thank you, lord, just for the brokenness, thank you.
Speaker 1:Lord, I thank you, lord, that each person, father God, that calls on your name can find a place of brokenness where Jesus becomes real, tangible and a living God to them. God, I thank you for just the way that you work things out between her and Bob. God, I thank you for that marriage I thank you, lord unity.
Speaker 1:Lord, I thank you for that household. The best is yet to come, lord. I thank you that you took two imperfect people, god, and made them one, and made them a house, lord, where they could take care of children. God whose parents were unfit or unable to do that God.
Speaker 1:I thank you Lord just for the passion that you put in her heart, god, for children, for teaching, lord. I just thank you, lord, that you are fulfilling every desire at her heart, god, though they may not be physically her kids, they are spiritually her kids, god, and she is doing well by them, in your name, god.
Speaker 1:So I thank you, lord and Father, I just thank you for these homes, god, I thank you that, when the time is right, god, that people are going to hear about these homes, financial things are going to hear about these homes. My natural things are going to begin to take place.
Speaker 2:I see $100,000. People are going to be sowing seeds and they're just not going to understand.
Speaker 1:People are just going to walk up to my house.
Speaker 2:God told me to give you this.
Speaker 1:I don't know why but I'm supposed to give you this $10,000 check, jesus. So I thank you, lord, that where the hearts are aligned and their faith is aligned with you, god, miracles happen. So I thank you, lord, for these homes. God, I thank you that there's going to be a good, safe place for children to go to find love, to find healing, to find you, god.
Speaker 2:This is crazy Wow.
Speaker 1:God that the foster system is going to begin to change and shift, that more Christian people are going to step up to the plate, god, and say no more orphans are going to step up to the plate, god, and say no more orphans are going to be abused, no more orphans are going to be abandoned. God, that we will take them in and love them, because our God told us to. So I just thank you, lord, for everything you're doing. God, Lord, I thank you for the things that are unspoken, god, the things that are hidden, god, that they just be exposed. In Jesus' name. God, man, bless your daughter, lord. You kept her this long. Her heart is pure. God, she is yours and you are hers. God Bless her house. I pray in Jesus' name. Amen.
Speaker 2:Amen, man man, bless her house. I pray in jesus name. Amen, man man. So this is crazy. I got this vision of this broken family with kids, mom and addict addicts, dad addict drunk. Literally the kids gonna go be in the kids home, the mom's literally going to be in the women's home and the man's literally going to be in the men's home and it comes back a time where this whole family gets reunited and they're all saved and free and healed. Amen, wow, amen. God has great things ahead for our family. Man jesus, give me a favor and pray for, speak life and me and dad and just whatever God's going to do with this thing, please.
Speaker 2:Jesus, I'm so thankful thank you, god, for what's coming Lord.
Speaker 5:Lord, I thank you so much that you have rescued them and built them up and strengthened them, lord, that they're my brothers, lord. I thank you for the way you speak through them and, Lord, that they're my brothers.
Speaker 5:Lord, I thank you for the way you speak through them and the way that you move through them, Lord that you are so present and so real, like right here in the room with us, and I just ask you, Lord, to pour out wisdom and pour out your plan, Lord, on Speak Life. Pour out your just the plan, Lord, that they would know exactly where they're supposed to go when. Lord, that you would pour out blessings of not just money, but just of time and people, and resources and the connections.
Speaker 2:Thank you, God.
Speaker 5:Like he was talking about. We keep somebody who will take over fitness and somebody who will do counseling and somebody who helps them spiritually. Lord, I fully set myself in agreement with that. Thank you, god, we are meant to be whole in every aspect, all three aspects, lord, and I just thank you, lord, for putting us all in the same family. Thank, you that we have not really acted as a family, but we are going to from now on yeah we're going to move
Speaker 2:forward. Thank you, lord, in the name of jesus move forward.
Speaker 5:Thank you, Lord.
Speaker 2:In the name of Jesus. Thank you, Lord.
Speaker 5:We love you, lord. We are here for you. We are yours. I have always been your servant, lord. These guys are your servants. We are here to do and we're your beloved Lord. We are yours and you are ours. Thank you. Lord. Thank you, Jesus. We love you, Lord. We'll do whatever you want us to do in jesus name amen, hey guys.
Speaker 2:So the first, just so you know, man, the whole way this thing starts is just saying yes to jesus christ and just letting jesus come into your life. Letting jesus come into your situation I don't know where you are, but he does. In Romans, chapter 10, verse 9 and 10, it says them that confess with their mouth and believe in their heart shall be saved, because we believe unto righteousness and we confess unto salvation. Unto righteousness and we confess unto salvation. And it's as easy as that. You believe that jesus walked this earth. You believe that jesus died and he hung on that cross and forgives you for all your sins, that you've ever done, that you did today and you're ever going to do in the future. That's the power in the blood, that's the power in the forgiveness, that's the power in the relationship with the one, and it just comes by just saying a little prayer and inviting them in. So if you've never done that, just do that with me right now. Jesus, just come into my life, fill me so full, god, that you pour yourself out of me. Change the situations that need changed, open the doors that need open and close the doors that need closed. From this day forward, I choose to submit and follow you. Help me to obey what you're telling me to do. God, you're the one that's going to change my life, in Jesus' name, amen.
Speaker 2:I don't know where you're watching or where you're listening, um, but I sure hope you enjoyed this testimony today. Um, whatever platform you're on, if you could please like the channel, subscribe to the channel. You'll get all the new notifications. Um, we are currently figuring out our processes on the back end and trying to get everything synced up to where, when we release the video, you'll also have the audio as well. It takes time. We're learning and we're growing too, guys, but keep checking in with us. Man, if you could please put a comment on wherever you're listening or watching, just type Jesus, jesus, jesus, jesus. It does so much for the algorithms and helping all that stuff go, but until next time, we're going to continue to speak. Life, az. God bless you, jesus, you.