Ashley B. Testimony #1

In this deeply moving episode, P. Ashley Banks takes us through her remarkable journey from a little girl praying for a sister to becoming a worship leader and pastor. With raw honesty and compelling storytelling, she reveals how God consistently redirected her musical aspirations away from secular fame toward ministry—a path she initially resisted but ultimately embraced.

Ashley's testimony begins with her earliest spiritual victory: praying for a sister at age five. When God answered by reconciling her parents' marriage and blessing their family with a child, it became her first tangible evidence of God's faithfulness—what she calls her "living altar." This foundation of faith would later sustain her through seasons of intense spiritual warfare, rejection, and personal struggle.

Growing up in a military family, Ashley developed exceptional musical talents that everyone affirmed would lead to stardom. Her journey includes competing in Arizona Idol (reaching the top 5), auditioning for prestigious music programs, and navigating the crushing disappointment of doors repeatedly closing on her musical dreams. Through these rejections, God was protecting her from an industry that would have destroyed her while preparing her for ministry.

Perhaps most powerful is Ashley's vulnerability about her personal battles with temptation and the transformative power of confession. Her story illuminates how secret struggles maintain their power in darkness and how healing begins with bringing them to light. Listeners will find themselves deeply moved by her courage and the grace she discovered through community.

This episode offers profound insights about letting go of our carefully constructed plans to embrace God's higher purpose. As Ashley powerfully states, "God doesn't repeat people"—He has unique callings for each of us that often look nothing like we imagined. Her testimony will encourage anyone questioning God's direction in their life or struggling to surrender dreams that seem unfulfilled.

What dreams are you holding onto that God might be asking you to surrender for something greater?

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Pastor Ashley's Story
• 8:03 Childhood, Family, and Sister as Living Proof
• 25:37 Finding Faith in a Child's Heart
• 42:15 Growing Up: School Years and Musical Gifts
• 1:05:06 Navigating Spiritual Warfare as a Teenager
• 1:23:40 Moving to Arizona and Arizona Idol
• 1:42:29 College Years and Unexpected Ministry
• 2:01:40 Spiritual Battle and Finding Freedom
• 2:11:44 Learning to Walk in True Freedom

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:16

all right, everybody. Welcome back to the speak live az podcast testimony of jesus and everyday people. I'm your host, eddie, and always with me is my son Rowdy.

Speaker 2: 0:23

Jesus, what up buddy? Oh man, this is great. Yeah, thank you, god for what you're doing.

Speaker 1: 0:31

It's been a couple weeks since we did one of these.

Speaker 2: 0:32

It has, man. Well, we haven't been feeling the best, but our house has been going through a period and our last guest backed himself in the head with a golf bud. I'm going to send you the dates. Man, Isn't that like God, though?

Speaker 1: 0:46

He knows man, we weren't feeling well. We weren't feeling well.

Speaker 2: 0:51

We were sick and I send him a message and he sends me a video of him in the hospital.

Speaker 1: 0:53

I was like God you didn't have to hurt him.

Speaker 2: 0:56

Give us some rest. Man, how was your day?

Speaker 1: 1:00

buddy, it was good. It's getting better. It's getting better, you're getting better. This morning I felt God. I felt that's the word I want to use I felt weak. You know what I mean.

Speaker 3: 1:11

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:12

And by lunchtime I felt strong and healthy and I'm like, okay, here we go.

Speaker 2: 1:15

All right, I'm coming back around.

Speaker 1: 1:16

You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 1:17

I felt that yesterday I came tired and by the end of cr I'm like yes, thank you, god.

Speaker 1: 1:24

You find it weird that our that happened as soon as we got our gym all put up all right, enemies like get them sick so they don't work out uh, I'm excited for this one bro yeah long overdue and much anticipated man. I'm super stoked dude.

Speaker 2: 1:40

This one for me, buddy, is really cool because, um, just what they have meant to me in my walk in just this house, um, and our journey, and just yeah, it's good, dude.

Speaker 1: 1:51

What'd you bring man?

Speaker 2: 1:51

Man, we got we got our friend, our sister, pastor Ashley.

Speaker 1: 1:54

How are you?

Speaker 4: 1:55

What's up girl. I'm glad to be here.

Speaker 1: 1:58

Amen Thank you.

Speaker 4: 2:01

Kids are with their dad.

Speaker 1: 2:02

She's like I got some time. Oh, you got an extra day and tribe sisterhood Look at you go girl.

Speaker 1: 2:10

When we started doing this man, god made it very clear to honor his sons and daughters when they give us our yes, and so we just want to take a moment and just honor you and say thank you. We know you're a mom, you're a wife, you're a pastor. You got a lot of stuff going on. Time is very crucial, so we thank you for allowing us to have probably a couple hours of your time, and we know a little bit about you, so we're excited to really get to know you a lot better and just to see what God has really done in your life, man.

Speaker 1: 2:39

So we honor you and we thank you for your time, man really.

Speaker 4: 2:42

Thank you.

Speaker 2: 2:45

I appreciate you having me on yeah um, pastor ashley, for me, um, when I first got here after I got out of rehab in 2020 and I was kind of doing young adults and just trying to find where I fit in this place, man um, your husband, pastor troy, you guys need to go back and check out our previous episode. He was one of our first and the fact that he was one of our first really touched my heart. But we've done preteens together, man. We get to serve God and his people in the house together. We're on the same team. It's just cool to have people that we're doing life with, yeah um, buy in when other people because what the vision is only as big as the people that believe in it with you, man, um, and so to have people that we're doing life with come on and share um, it just really it's. It's encouraging for me personally, um, but when we ourselves man.

Speaker 1: 3:44

Yeah, bro, it's this breath of wind behind us that says man, go, Go.

Speaker 2: 3:49

You know what I mean. Look what God's doing, take it and run with it, man.

Speaker 1: 3:52

So it's really cool.

Speaker 2: 3:53

Yeah, I love that.

Speaker 2: 3:56

When you were praying for her earlier, I was pacing, and, pastor Ashley, I feel like God is going. So on Sundays here, people see you and people know you, and they see you in all different capacities, whether praying for women at the altar, whether singing on stage in front of the big church or in preteens back there and they're dropping their kids off. I feel like there's a lot of people that see you, but they maybe don't know you, and I feel like God is getting ready to use this to you, sister. There's some women that are going to hear this and come alongside. I had no idea, so I'm really stoked for what God's going to do today.

Speaker 1: 4:41

Man, yeah for sure, you said something once that really stuck with me, and that's my prayer now is that you had listened to one and related with the lady that was sharing. Yes, I did, and you said you connected with her and I was like, wow, that to me. If that's what this is for, praise God. You know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 5:02

Building relationships, because that's what kingdom is about, come on, it's about building relationships, and so to make that connection with somebody that you may have never made that connection before, with before, because now that you heard their story and something they were going through that you can relate to, you guys made that connection.

Speaker 5: 5:18

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 5:18

And that's not the first one I've seen.

Speaker 2: 5:20

I've had a couple of people tell me you know, and it's like, yeah, I don't know what you're doing god, but we're gonna keep but that, to me, is the best

Speaker 1: 5:29

thing ever that could come out of this is that connection of I. You know I can relate to you. I see you. Let's talk, let's, let's make a connection together. You know what I mean oh yeah, that's beautiful man.

Speaker 4: 5:40

Yeah, it was. It was a blessing. I didn't realize how much alike we were in our story. We're alike in their similarities in our life. And I kind of knew about that. I knew her before the podcast. But when I heard parts of her story and I was like whoa, you are like my sister, like no, we're going to do something about this and what's cool is our friend. Our, our kids are friends. Come on man in a slightly different way too I think um, so it was just god layers of generations he's never done.

Speaker 1: 6:14

There's something you just said that I wanted to make a connection with. You said you knew her, but when you heard her story, yeah so we go through life thinking we know people of course you know what I mean. And then we hear their story and we're like I had no idea yeah, you know what I mean and so that's why I think this is cool, because someone who thinks they know you is going to get to know a different layer of you, yeah get and they're gonna be like sis

Speaker 1: 6:38

I wish you would have told me a long time ago. I went through something similar myself. You know what I mean. So it's I don't know. I think that's why me and rowdy is open and vulnerable as we are about our past kind of trips people out a little bit but it's like maybe one man, maybe one person will understand and see and be like I. I I feel a connection to you, know what I mean and that's our hope that's why we're so open and honest is somebody can make that connection Right yeah?

Speaker 2: 7:11

Well, let me pray, man, and we'll kind of get into this thing.

Speaker 1: 7:13

We already did, but let's pray.

Speaker 2: 7:16

We didn't on air. You prayed earlier. Jesus, man, holy Spirit, god, I thank you so much for what you're getting ready to do. We praise you, lord. God, this is all to glorify you, thank you, lord, this is all to honor you. So I thank you for what you're getting ready to do through your daughter, ashley's story. God, like I say every time man, she's been the pen in your hand, you've been writing this book. So I thank you, god, for just any nerves or anxiety in Jesus name fall away. God, I thank you for hope. I thank you that this testimony is going to encourage your people, god, to get closer to you, because if you can do what you've done in Ashley's life, god, you can do for anybody who's listening or watching. So I just pray, lord, that the anointing is on this from the beginning to the end. We thank you, god, because it's the anointing that breaks the yokes in our lives. Have your way, holy Spirit, in Jesus name, amen.

Speaker 4: 8:19

Fire.

Speaker 2: 8:21

I don't have to ask you if you've listened to one of these before. Make you repent, because you're a faithful follower. Man Subscriber she's a subscriber. Yeah, I get the new releases, that's right.

Speaker 4: 8:34

And what's really cool about that is you know where we are. Most of the time when I'm listening to speak life, I'm in this room, wow. Speak life, I'm in this room, wow, and I'm actually resetting the curriculum and the building.

Speaker 5: 8:50

You guys literally are with me every day.

Speaker 4: 8:51

Oh my gosh, and it's just it's the easy for me it's the easiest thing to listen to. I'm here, I'm being encouraged by the word I'm being encouraged by testimonies, as I'm cutting out little jesus's and folding papers and throwing away things like oh, they didn't do this craft, but it's okay, you know.

Speaker 2: 9:06

I know how it is to cut the Jesus fingers out, man. I was cutting thumbs and you're like, nope, that doesn't work. The struggle is real, um, but so, pastor Ashley, you know that, um, basically, when God gave this to us, uh, it was was 2020. It seemed like he gave a lot of people podcasts in 2020, um, but for the first couple years, we were not obedient to what, to what he asked us to do. Um, we were kind of making it our own thing and setting up studios and bedrooms and we're gonna preach god's like. That's not what I told you to man. So when we started being obedient to what he told us to do, which is the Speak Life AZ podcast, the testimony of Jesus and everyday people, we all have a story. It doesn't matter if you're like Dad and you're down at the muffler shop welding and cutting on cars myself, facilities and maintenance, or yourself actually pastoring people and helping people in life. Man, we've all got a story, story and we've all come from somewhere.

Speaker 2: 10:07

So, basically, what we want to get from you today is who is Ashley? Where? Where did you come from? Where were you born? Brothers and sisters, mom and dad? What was growing up like Was God in the home and me and dad working with people in recovery.

Speaker 2: 10:29

We know that a lot of the stuff that we have to heal from and allow God to really change us and make us whole, a lot of that stuff can come from childhood hurts and childhood traumas. So basically, we just want to know how you grew up, where you grew up, what your childhood was like school grades, sports, just all that stuff, man. And then I think the coolest thing we want to get today from you is your personal encounter with Jesus, because the way that God showed up to you and became real to you is different than the way he showed himself to me. I was in a rehab at Teen Challenge at 1515 West Grand at a two-foot blue altar, when God said I love you, son, I forgive you. That changed my life, man.

Speaker 2: 11:16

For dad, god showed up in a prison cell in the state what AZ, florence, florence Prison man. So he'll meet you right where he knows. So we want to know your encounter, what that looked like and it's different for everybody. Some people's are like mine was August 26, 2014. Some people they go through a process over time where God reveals himself to you so what that was like for you.

Speaker 2: 11:44

And then, as dad always says, man, a real encounter with the living god, a real encounter with jesus. It leads to life change after that encounter. Um, so we want to know how your life changed after your encounter with god. And then, at the very end, pastor ashley, we want to get what you're hoping for, what you're believing God for in the future. Amen For your family, for the ministry he has for you, for things that he's put in your heart, for you and Pastor Troy to do together books, songs, just whatever is in there. Man, we want you to share, because we have followers and subscribers that actually pray for you, and prayer is how God moves God's hands. Man that always tells people go big when we get to that spot, because we got a big God man, believe big.

Speaker 1: 12:35

And he'll meet you in your faith, man. So what you're believing for is what you're going to get.

Speaker 2: 12:40

Mark 9.23 says anything's possible for them that believe. What are you believing?

Speaker 1: 12:44

for believe. We had a pastor who had this big plot of land and a 200 person church and he turned. We were out there walking the land. He turned around. He said the only mistake I made, eddie, is this was all I was believing in. God for wish I would have believed for a bigger church and he got what he believed for he got a 200 person church man man with his family, yeah, but that let me know that God's going to give you what you believe for Go big.

Speaker 1: 13:12

You want a 1,000-man church, you better start believing for a 1,000-man church Build it you know, what I mean. Build it. Build it Like to fill the dreams, build it. Love that, love that. So what was it like growing up, ashley man?

Speaker 2: 13:24

Well, I know you didn't grow up, pastor Ashley, I did not.

Speaker 4: 13:28

The whole pastor part is the shortest part of it all Amen.

Speaker 1: 13:32

The calling was there all the time, though.

Speaker 5: 13:36

Okay.

Speaker 2: 13:38

I can't wait.

Speaker 4: 13:43

So growing up, ashley, I guess I'll start at the beginning. My name. Names are important in our family. We name intentionally not to be biblical, but we find value, and so my name is Ashley. Yohanna Green was my name at the time before I married and I used to despise my name. So this will frame the time before I married and I used to. I used to despise my name, so this will frame the whole story.

Speaker 4: 14:08

Ashley means, or it can represent a tree. It's a tree in Europe across the water that appears to be dead. It's called an ash tree and in certain season it looks like it's dead and it's ashy in color, it's lost all its leaves and everything. It's dead and it's ashy in color. It's lost all its leaves and everything. Um yohanna is actually hebrew from for god is gracious, and so um and then green.

Speaker 4: 14:32

My first last name usually represents life and vitality and health, and so it wasn't until god actually sat me down, because I didn't always like my name. Yeah, because of the dead tree part, I was like thanks God, that's awesome, you know. But when he showed me my whole name, I was dead, but by his grace I have been given life.

Speaker 5: 14:56

Oh, wow.

Speaker 4: 14:57

And so, of course, I married my husband.

Speaker 1: 15:05

And now, banks means rivers, so I don't really know anymore.

Speaker 4: 15:07

No, I love you, Troy.

Speaker 1: 15:08

A tree, by grace, next to living waters. Living water yes, I was going to get there. That's so good.

Speaker 4: 15:16

So growing up, ashley words meant a lot to me.

Speaker 1: 15:20

Oh, we know they mean a lot to me now, rowdy, he lived up to it yeah.

Speaker 4: 15:31

Careful what you name your kids, because you're calling that every time you call up him.

Speaker 5: 15:38

You say little rowdy one, come here. They asked for it. Speak up, little rowdy one.

Speaker 4: 15:40

The power of our words you give life to your children.

Speaker 5: 15:42

I never thought about that man. That's insane. You give life to your children. I never thought about that man. That's insane.

Speaker 4: 15:45

So but growing up, ashley, my parents are awesome. They my parents are Kim and Ed, and they- Love your parents, man, yes, they will eventually tell their own stories.

Speaker 2: 15:54

So I'm going to try. I got them scheduled. I'm so excited, yeah.

Speaker 4: 15:58

But I'm going to try to stay out of their stories and respect for them.

Speaker 4: 16:02

Amen of their stories and respect for them, but um little things. So my dad was before I was born. Um, he, you know he was in the army at some point before he met my mother. They knew each other for a while. Um, because of my mom's life circumstances that she'll get into, she knew his family and she knew him before there was interest. What she has shared is that he went off to the Army and then came back and suddenly there was interest.

Speaker 2: 16:29

Yep.

Speaker 3: 16:30

Army makes you.

Speaker 4: 16:33

So you did good, Dad.

Speaker 5: 16:35

A man in a suit, a man in a uniform. He came back clean. He's like wait a minute.

Speaker 4: 16:41

And, from what I can tell, the same thing happened for him, and so they caught each other's eye. They, they, they had a whirlwind romance from my perspective and got married very quickly, okay, um, so she suddenly became an army wife and I was within a year of marriage. I'm on the scene, and so, um, I knew dad goes to work and dad's work takes him away were you born on a base? I was. I was born on andrews air force base in maryland oh maryland I think, it's maryland.

Speaker 4: 17:16

It's actually like sovereign soil, at least from what I've heard yeah because my birth certificate doesn't say andrews air Base. It says some other city, but the hospital is on it's weird when you're born on base. There's things I promise I'm a citizen, but anyway. So yeah, I was born on base and really from what I know, my mom was navigating a child in a new marriage. They met and got to know each other in California.

Speaker 1: 17:49

How old were they when they got married? Oh gosh, 20s 20s.

Speaker 4: 17:52

Yeah, they were young, they were young 18, 19, 20, somewhere around there.

Speaker 2: 17:57

Early 20s, that's so hard, pia, because I was in the Army and I saw a lot of young couples that it's very hard for a woman with young babies with a man that's always gone.

Speaker 4: 18:11

And that is so difficult they went from California to Maryland at some point. Complete culture shock yeah and it was a justice of the peace wedding because there were other plans. I think my grandmother was not wanting to lose her baby boy. He was the baby of the family and mom was kind of like well, if you need him that much, you can have him.

Speaker 4: 18:34

And so my dad went awol to find my mom, like no, we're doing this yeah and so, but because he went awol, I think yeah, she had trouble think he went AWOL and no return ticket like I don't understand, but she helped him get back and then she soon followed, and so there was a lot man who loved us crazy things apparently that's why they call love, chemistry, messes with the brain, messes with the brain man they grew up.

Speaker 4: 19:03

My parents grew up under the knowledge of God. I think my dad's knowledge of the Lord may I don't know may have been deeper, I'm not sure, but my mom by that time she had a relationship. My dad has his relationship. They're both. My mom is a granddaughter kind of PK, so my great grandfather was a pastor. My grandfather on my dad's side is a pastor. Or was a pastor when he was alive, and so both of my parents grew up in church.

Speaker 2: 19:33

When dad said the call has literally been on your life forever, it's literally been on your life forever. It must have been because I did everything.

Speaker 4: 19:40

I could to make sure I was not going to be no pastor. But not everything I could to make sure I was not going to be no pastor, but not everything I could. But I told the Lord often like that is too much responsibility. Please don't Just you even warn people in the word, like don't aspire to this.

Speaker 1: 19:55

Any siblings.

Speaker 4: 19:56

I do have one sister, so, yeah, she is my first encounter with God which is crazy.

Speaker 2: 20:05

Are you kidding me?

Speaker 1: 20:06

Yeah, how long after you did she come.

Speaker 4: 20:11

Seven years.

Speaker 1: 20:12

That long yeah, oh wow.

Speaker 4: 20:14

And you have to remember my dad is sick in and out because of the Army. I don't want to get in, but he wasn't always home. We'll just say it like that and I think my mom was very happy with the one. You know she's on her own for certain parts of the year.

Speaker 5: 20:31

Like.

Speaker 4: 20:31

I got my girl.

Speaker 1: 20:32

We're doing the things. Did you guys live on base or off base?

Speaker 4: 20:37

For certain. Let's see. For some parts I believe we did. I know I remember the commissary.

Speaker 2: 20:46

Yeah, the grocery store, the PX. Oh yeah, I don't remember.

Speaker 4: 20:49

I think I remember stories and pictures. I don't think I was old enough to actually remember.

Speaker 1: 20:53

You remember having to stop while you were playing.

Speaker 4: 20:57

Oh, I knew the Pledge of Allegiance and how to salute before I was in school.

Speaker 1: 21:00

I know on some basis, at certain times of the day they stop everything and they do something.

Speaker 4: 21:05

We would get out the car.

Speaker 1: 21:06

My dad would have to get out and salute and I don't know if he got me out the car. But I.

Speaker 4: 21:12

I was in the army too.

Speaker 1: 21:13

Like I was in my head like oh, it's time.

Speaker 4: 21:16

I still get upset when people don't stand up.

Speaker 2: 21:18

Yeah, amen stuff.

Speaker 4: 21:21

I was volunteering at my kid's school and they were saying the pledge in their chairs and I was like, oh no, you did not.

Speaker 5: 21:27

Like it, just it's in me but yeah, so we were army.

Speaker 4: 21:31

We moved around a lot. My parents went through a season where they separated. When you were younger, I was younger and it was for a few years is really all I know.

Speaker 1: 21:43

Military life took its toll.

Speaker 4: 21:44

It did.

Speaker 5: 21:45

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 21:46

And what I do know is God led separation. They did not divorce.

Speaker 3: 21:49

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 21:50

Okay, but my mom took me and we moved. At this point we had lived all over the US, but we were in California. At this point my dad was still back in Colorado. That's where we went from. He was on base there, I think, yeah in. Colorado. That's where we went from. He was on base there, I think, and it was weird, but going back in my memory it was a strange time it was around this season where I'm starting to develop memories.

Speaker 4: 22:18

I think and actually remember things on my own. I don't know if it was, it wasn't quite unusual for dad not to be there every day, because that it wasn't quite unusual for dad not to be there every day, because that was our life. Military life, but I didn't fully understand until much later that there was an actual marital separation taking place, and so it was around. This time we're going to a church, true Bible. It was True Bible Church in California, vista, california.

Speaker 2: 22:45

Was it family churches? Any family members? No, no, no, it was true. Bible church in california vista california is it?

Speaker 4: 22:48

was it family churches like any family? No, okay, it was a. It was a beautiful church, storefront church in vista. We lived there I was um from about pre-k to elementary school. We were there and around this time I'm probably like five or six and I'm asking for a sister or a sibling, because everyone at church has one. And so I'm this only child. That, and, honestly, this is where some of the trauma comes in. My first encounter with bullying happened at this church, with the other girls that I went to church with.

Speaker 4: 23:21

Wow. So we're all leaders' kids, because it's a small church, so everybody's leading something. And so we're all leaders, kids, we hang out, but they, for reasons I really fully to this day don't understand, didn't like certain things about me. One of the things with hair.

Speaker 4: 23:38

I think it was jealousy, but we're all mostly black kids and black girls don't necessarily grow long hair early in life, and I had a lot of it and so when you have something somebody wants but doesn't have, it becomes a thing um dang and kids are mean, kids are mean, kids are mean, but they were also confused like why does she have this?

Speaker 1: 23:58

I don't stuff like that so I'm seeing.

Speaker 4: 24:02

what's happening in my life is I'm trying to make friends. I'm trying to make friends. I'm trying to connect with other people I go to church with and they're doing that. I'm your friend sometimes, and other times I'm not going to be your friend and they had the option to not play with me and only play with their siblings, and so I'm going.

Speaker 3: 24:20

I need a sister. You didn't have that option.

Speaker 4: 24:21

I didn't have that I go home and I'm playing by myself, which I'm cool to do, but you know, and so I need a sister, I need a, I want to, I want a friend that's loyal to me. Yeah, and I didn't have that word or you know the wording of that, but that was the desire that was in me. Being a military kid was it hard, for we moved around early and, because of when my parents separated, I think the moving stopped for me sooner than the military did.

Speaker 4: 24:53

All right, or it just stopped being a thing.

Speaker 1: 24:55

I know a lot of kids growing up in the military and all the moving around, they never get a foundation.

Speaker 4: 25:00

Well, yeah, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 25:00

So they never really try to establish brands, because we're going to move in six months anyway, so why that?

Speaker 4: 25:06

was there, but it didn't present itself until I was in middle school.

Speaker 3: 25:09

All right.

Speaker 2: 25:14

Because we did keep moving, even when my dad left the military, but it was mostly jobs. At that point, when dad stayed in Colorado and y'all moved for the marital separation, where did you guys go to?

Speaker 4: 25:23

We went to California. Okay with family, or uh, from what I know, we left colorado and went to oregon, I think for a small amount of time, while my mom figured out where god wanted her to be. Somehow we landed in california and we it was me and mom we had a two-bedroom apartment not far from the church, not far from where. I eventually went to school. She was working.

Speaker 2: 25:48

What was mama doing for work?

Speaker 4: 25:51

Administrative stuff.

Speaker 2: 25:53

Clericals and office stuff. More office stuff.

Speaker 4: 25:58

I know that we struggled a little. We would go get the food boxes.

Speaker 2: 26:02

Single parent.

Speaker 4: 26:04

I didn't know that we were struggling, that's just you know, she, she cut my mom can cover anything, yeah, anything.

Speaker 1: 26:11

So what I experienced, I didn't experience it's kind of like going to commissary in the military, kind of same idea, right, right, and I didn't know it was lack yeah it was more like oh look this is just what we get a whole box of oranges, you know, like and like, and it's just.

Speaker 2: 26:25

it's what we have, and my mom can.

Speaker 4: 26:27

She's a really good cook.

Speaker 2: 26:30

So I know that. I'm coming back for more mama.

Speaker 4: 26:35

I didn't know. I didn't know anything was missing, except for what I realized was missing at church with the friendships at church, with the friendships.

Speaker 2: 26:44

Okay, so at this point in your life, basically the only thing that was really messing with you was you not having a friend.

Speaker 4: 26:52

Yeah, okay, I had little friends, that no, but like you said, somebody who's loyal to me and is there for me.

Speaker 2: 27:00

I'm your friend here and now I'm not.

Speaker 4: 27:01

I'm your friend here and now I'm not, and it was made more intense by the fact that all of our parents were friends, so we were around each other all the time and when you don't want to play with me and I'm at your house and I have nothing else to do and I can't go in your room, I can't mess with your toys, but our parents are all playing cards or having dinner. What am I supposed to do?

Speaker 1: 27:24

Your parents play cards.

Speaker 4: 27:26

Well, yeah Now.

Speaker 1: 27:28

Look at that.

Speaker 2: 27:28

He's like okay, we got our next thing, we're playing some spades, spades, pinochle, canasta.

Speaker 1: 27:36

What do you?

Speaker 4: 27:37

got Now. You don't want to open that door.

Speaker 2: 27:40

I do, I'm competitive. He's so competitive man He'll love it. Talk crap to me.

Speaker 1: 27:45

I love it. You can get violent and nasty. She's literally warning you.

Speaker 2: 27:49

You can see it all over her face. He's like, yeah, bring it on.

Speaker 1: 27:52

I think I open the door. I enjoy Okay.

Speaker 5: 27:54

Mom, You're crazy Dad. Mom, Dad, I tried to tell them I tried.

Speaker 1: 28:06

Oh, tried to tell them, I tried. Oh, man, no, uh, yeah, no, they're great.

Speaker 2: 28:08

I see game night at our house, man roddy quits playing in the middle of it because they're it's no fun, it's vicious oh, you will be right at home.

Speaker 4: 28:14

Oh yeah, that's all I can say.

Speaker 1: 28:16

But yeah, they so I sorry, no, no, you're good rabbit trail. I love them.

Speaker 4: 28:20

I love rabbit trails um, but no, yeah, I wanted a friend, and so this is who I am as a person. I started doing research and I was like Mom, and now I'm around five or six, so I don't have the whole story on how you get a sibling.

Speaker 3: 28:37

Yeah, okay.

Speaker 4: 28:38

So I'm asking Mom, like I want a sister and she's okay. Well, when God, you know, when God wants that or when, and she would say I love you, I'm fine, or what she would, she would put me off a little bit, but when it was, when it's time for that, god will give us another, you know she put it on God and I was like and that's what I remember, mom, if I'm getting this wrong you can fix it in your story, but you can fix it in your story, but um, that's what I remember, and so, because it was like, well, let's pray for one, and I was praying at breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Speaker 4: 29:10

Come on um and oh wow and so nothing was happening yet obviously my dad's not home, yeah, um, and so I'm like, okay, well, she keeps saying god, and that this is, this is in his hands yeah so naturally, I go to church and I'm asking the quote unquote experts on God in my life, and so I started with my friends how did you get your sister, how did you get your brother?

Speaker 4: 29:33

And they were like they were telling me, like they just showed up one day. It was great, it was great. And I was like, okay, no, help there. So help there. So, um, I finally I don't know how this happened, but I think there was an altar moment where you could get prayer. That like kind of was at the end of service yeah, come on so people were lingering and talking and I went to um.

Speaker 2: 29:57

Her name was Archie, wow you still remember the late wow, yes words. This moment touched you. Yes, wow, this woman. I could pick her out of a lineup today um if you went back to that church, you'd know right where this moment happened. Oh yeah, we were sitting on the chairs at the um.

Speaker 4: 30:13

I remember on the chairs, I think, towards the front of the church, and I asked her because she's a pastor's wife. Okay, so I'm, I'm going up as high as I can at this point in my head and I was like I want a little sister. And I was specific, I wanted a sister, I didn't just want a sibling yeah, I wanted a sister.

Speaker 4: 30:31

Okay, because I had heard from my other friends that were girls, that had brothers, that boys were weird yeah, yes, we are and I was just like okay, I don't want, I don't want to stress my life so we're gonna get a sister, and so I asked her how do I, how do I get a sister? And she's like well, I think you need to talk to mom about this. And I've been there, done that, like I want to know. And she told me she was like I was like how do I get a sister? And she basically said, well, you need to pray.

Speaker 4: 30:59

And then she said and pray in faith believing wow and I was like oh well, I've praying, but maybe I wasn't believing you know as a kid.

Speaker 3: 31:08

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: 31:09

And I was like okay, and so she prayed with me and she was like Lord, if you want, Ashley, it was so simple.

Speaker 3: 31:14

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 31:14

Like she probably thinks nothing of it.

Speaker 3: 31:16

Yeah, and she's like, if you want Ashley to have a sister will you send her I to this day know how babies actually come, but you have a couple of them I do I know what happened?

Speaker 4: 31:34

but to this day I am still five years old. With the fact that God gave me a sister, so that set me on a and it was a longer wait. But my parents at this point I don't know that they're reconciling slowly that God is doing things in the background of their marriage. My dad, for me it felt random but my dad is around a little bit more. Now he's going to church with us.

Speaker 2: 32:00

Is he living with you?

Speaker 4: 32:01

I don't think he was right away. Okay, I think there were some things that had to be lined up correctly.

Speaker 1: 32:09

So let me ask you this when he started coming around, did it feel to you like oh dad's back from deployment? Kind of Did it With a tinge of weirdness, or was there a conversation with your mom that you kind of knew things were.

Speaker 4: 32:21

It was like a tinge of weirdness, and I don't remember a whole lot, yeah, because I was still pretty young, yeah, but you could just feel it.

Speaker 5: 32:32

I could feel that like well, dad's back but things aren't like they were usually, are you know?

Speaker 4: 32:34

it was just a little it was a little different, um but nothing extraordinary to the point where I felt unsafe or worried or concerned.

Speaker 1: 32:42

It was just like oh well, you to go there instead of going home.

Speaker 3: 32:46

Yeah, yeah, all right.

Speaker 4: 32:49

But so they're reconciling. God is bringing my parents back together. At the same time, I'm praying for a little sister.

Speaker 3: 32:55

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 32:56

And I remember one day they were telling me we were watching Rescuers Down Under on the TV.

Speaker 1: 33:02

I love that show, I know.

Speaker 4: 33:06

It was on the TV when regular TV used to happen and you could watch stuff for free. And so we're watching and they, I think during a commercial break, let me know that mom was going to have a baby, and I think at this point dad is in the house, because he was there too and I was kind of I was ecstatic, but at the same time I was like oh that pray and faith believing stuff worked, and so for me it was yes, I'm having a sister, but my encounter with God was he heard?

Speaker 3: 33:37

me, yeah Wow.

Speaker 4: 33:39

He actually heard me. Now I didn't know it was going to be a girl yet and, honestly, a lot of people were trying to prepare me for the fact that this could go either way. But because there was a baby now, my faith just skyrocketed.

Speaker 5: 33:52

I didn't ask for a boy.

Speaker 4: 33:54

I asked God for a sister, and here I am this little. I'm about six you know six and a half and I'm telling people that well, it could be a boy. You know people that like, well, it could be a boy. You know doctors and stuff it could be a boy. What if your mommy?

Speaker 2: 34:05

has a boy. I asked god for a girl I didn't ask for god what you asked for. You know and I'm even in the little kid's mind. That's what. That's what it was bible say childlike faith.

Speaker 4: 34:16

Come on, buddy, it's exactly what it was, and so one day my mom went into labor, they pulled me out of school and I got to be on the other side of the curtain um, while she was delivering, and my sister came out, they opened the curtain and I got to. I got to be there, wow, um, when they were weighing her and cleaning her up. I got to hold her, wow, and you're seven.

Speaker 2: 34:35

So yeah, you're old enough to understand.

Speaker 4: 34:38

Yeah, I had gone to the big sister classes that they teach you.

Speaker 2: 34:41

You know, oh wow really.

Speaker 4: 34:43

I had a red shirt that was like I'm the big sister.

Speaker 5: 34:48

She was my baby.

Speaker 1: 34:49

Like, this little girl was my baby and seven years old.

Speaker 4: 34:52

You guys may not know, but seven years old is a perfect time for dolls and pretending to be mama for a little girl. So I was in heaven. Um, but yeah, she was there and she was my. You know how in the bible they build altars. When they had a moment with God, like Jacob, built an altar or Abraham built an altar. She is my living altar and if she were here right now she would be like punching me in the arm, like stop it don't be weird.

Speaker 5: 35:22

You're creeping people out. But she was answered prayer man, she was my first.

Speaker 4: 35:31

She was the first time I had skin in the game with god.

Speaker 2: 35:33

Well, yeah, he said any sisters, and you're like well, let me get to that, because that was my first encounter with god at seven so all that did.

Speaker 4: 35:43

When you're a kid that knows the word because you've been brought up in church and my mom didn't just bring me to church, she taught me the word. Like, we have videos of me about three or four with teddy bears spread around me and I have the bible upside down and I am recounting the crucifixion to my teddy bears and to my dolls yeah and so I knew much more yeah than I think some kid and but words stick with me. So I think just reading and listening and hearing are strength for me so that stuff stuck.

Speaker 4: 36:12

Now I have visual, physical proof that god answers prayer yeah and so all that does to a kid whose faith has not been tested, not been tried, not been knocked, been knocked.

Speaker 2: 36:23

Make it stronger.

Speaker 4: 36:24

Oh, I'm asking for the world now. And so I did. I would pray for things.

Speaker 1: 36:29

Do you think that was the first thing that you really intently believed and asked God for my sister?

Speaker 4: 36:37

Yeah, most definitely.

Speaker 1: 36:38

I remember telling him so to have the first thing that you intently, you're like okay, god, I'm going to pray this in faith, believing.

Speaker 2: 36:44

Breakfast, lunch and dinner, and it didn't be answered.

Speaker 5: 36:49

That's pretty significant man.

Speaker 4: 36:50

Yes, going back to that place in my mind. I didn't say this in my prayers, but I do remember having the feeling, because it took a while. You know, I started asking it around five.

Speaker 1: 36:58

I didn't have a sister until about seven.

Speaker 4: 37:00

So I remember in my emotions if he feeling if this doesn't happen, you're not real. Yeah so for me, there was a lot on the table.

Speaker 5: 37:14

Like.

Speaker 4: 37:14

God, not, you can't pin God into a corner. But but it was genuine faith for me and I think the Lord knew oh yeah, she's out.

Speaker 2: 37:23

If this doesn't happen, In my perspective, in hearing your testimony and people who are listening and watching this thing, man, it is a husband and a wife who are currently in a marital separation and not in the same place. No, and this little girl that's going through this stuff at her school, loneliness At church, at church, at church From other little kids that's going through this stuff at her school.

Speaker 4: 37:45

Loneliness, loneliness At church, at church, from other little kids that got their brothers and sisters.

Speaker 2: 37:49

And I just want a friend that goes to mom and mom starts telling her you need to pray, god, god. So you go to the pastor's wife because you're going straight to the top, god, god, pray in faith believing. So you start praying in faith, believing what ends up happening God brings dad back into the picture, back into the home, back through the reconciliation and the restoration of the marriage, so mom and dad can become one again and bam.

Speaker 1: 38:19

But that's why it took two years.

Speaker 4: 38:21

Right, it wasn't overnight.

Speaker 1: 38:23

No, because God had to work on your mom, you had to work on your dad.

Speaker 4: 38:26

And her.

Speaker 1: 38:27

Get them to a place where you know they would come back together. You know what I mean.

Speaker 4: 38:31

And they came back together healthy. Let me say that their separation was God-led.

Speaker 3: 38:35

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 38:36

And so it was also their separation, the entire separation and reconciliation was timed by God. Amen. So, as I say that those of you that are married that are listening, if separation is on the table, my mom and dad didn't just do that because their feelings were in it. My mom heard the Lord say I need to get with you and him separate.

Speaker 3: 38:54

Yeah, amen.

Speaker 4: 38:56

And so there was a lot of hope in it. I believe even though they were separated, there was still a lot of hope. But God had to bring them back, and how long did it take you to look?

Speaker 2: 39:12

back on that moment and appreciate that time span. Uh, you mean the time spent waiting.

Speaker 4: 39:14

Yeah, um, wow, good question.

Speaker 1: 39:15

That is something I have always carried, uh, since I was little like can you look back now and say okay, god, I see that you needed that. Two years is that hard for? You to work on my mom, to work on my, my dad to answer that prayer. Does that help you now, when you pray for things and ask God, believing that just because they don't happen right away, that God's still going to move?

Speaker 4: 39:35

I think yes, but in a different way. It was the time for me became null and void.

Speaker 2: 39:41

Yeah, okay, you heard me. Yeah, okay, for me became null and void. Yeah, okay, you heard me. Yeah, okay, it didn't matter how long, because look, you heard me.

Speaker 4: 39:49

Yeah, like you're, you're real. Yeah in, because the struggle was that, the loneliness yeah and the opposition I was feeling was coming from the people who were supposed to be godly. Yeah, like honestly no, that's real and so for him to show up for me in that way, when I couldn't depend on the friends I'm supposed to have. Yeah, I was like fine, two years, 10 years, you heard?

Speaker 3: 40:14

me yeah.

Speaker 4: 40:15

And now I know you here, and not only do you hear, but you move.

Speaker 3: 40:20

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 40:22

You are a holy, real God, and it just all it did was fuel me. I bet forward I bet um, of course, there's more to this story. Like I was seven, I hadn't lived much life yet.

Speaker 1: 40:34

So those of you that are rolling, your eyes wait for it, but it's a crucial moment because that's where that's our first encounter with god, that's where your faith was like injected with, just like, let's go, god.

Speaker 4: 40:45

Yes, you know what I mean, and in his sovereignty, I don't care if it's seven.

Speaker 1: 40:48

Yeah, there's still a moment where a young kid's faith was just. You know what I mean.

Speaker 4: 40:52

Well, and that lends to when we get there. But we'll get there. But that lends to why I'm so yeah and Wow, you cannot I mean I'm in my 30s now. You cannot tell me God's not real. You can knock down other things that have happened in my life. Amen. My sister is living breathing air. And so just it's.

Speaker 5: 41:17

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 41:17

Yeah, so there's, but God knew I was going to need that wall.

Speaker 3: 41:21

Yep.

Speaker 4: 41:22

Around my faith to where. When the fire got hot, when when the relationship got hard between me and him. I can still, even now, as a mom, I go back to that place at seven and go, you're real come on, you're real I just know it, and and so, for some reason, he's allowed me to keep the mindset. Despite all the science.

Speaker 4: 41:43

He's allowed me to keep the mindset that I had at seven and I can go back to that place and retreat there with him and just get into that spot and go. Nope, I don't care that's your altar.

Speaker 1: 41:53

You said that's your altar. That's a place you can always go back and be like god. This moment still stands, this moment's still true, this moment's still real yes no matter what's going on, I still have this moment to say that you're real. You hear you answer. Yeah that's important man, so I'm glad we stuck on that for a little bit, because I want that to me. I feel the importance of that oh, we're gonna be here a long time yeah oh god help us.

Speaker 5: 42:18

I hope you ate already it's gonna be a two-parter.

Speaker 4: 42:26

I told you I listen to these while I'm at work. Our longest.

Speaker 1: 42:28

One's like five hours, man. So we cut that dude short, don't make us cut you short.

Speaker 4: 42:35

I'm just kidding my sister's on the scene. She's born. She's my baby doll. I'm helping my mom's a little helper. I'm helping change things. I did everything. I changed a diaper. One time she peed on me, I was done, that's for you mom, yep, I was like oh well, you were the same age.

Speaker 1: 42:52

My wife had her two youngest sisters. She was about seven or eight when they came along.

Speaker 4: 42:58

She said the same thing you did perfect day, she did everything I can't wait to get mama you know, I mean yeah yeah, I don't know what it is about that age, but she was literally my baby doll, to the point. My mom would sit me down and say I am her mother, you are her sister I get to choose and and it was funny because I've always had a really tight connection my mom is an only my dad is one of like five, and then there were fosters in his world and so my mom was watching this bond between me and my sister.

Speaker 4: 43:30

Not, I don't, I don't think she always understood it, because there would be things that would happen and I could interpret for my sister. I'm like, oh, she doesn't like that mom. And mom was like I'm her mom and I'm like I know, but she doesn't like that you know and she's not talking yet yeah. And then when she starts talking, we have, you know, we just we're great sisters. But I think that is also part of the blessing of me seeing her as a gift from God.

Speaker 3: 43:53

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 43:54

I didn't treat her the way most big sisters treat little sisters. And then also because I was bullied so much by other girls at church. I was like my sister will never know.

Speaker 2: 44:06

You're protecting.

Speaker 4: 44:07

We'll never feel that. And so we have this really unique relationship and so, but yeah, we're growing up and my parents were in California. I'm in elementary school. It's around this time that my grandmother, bless her heart, is on the scene. I think she had some health things going on.

Speaker 1: 44:25

She lived on the East coast at the time, dad's mom or mom's mom? I'm sorry, my mom's mom, all right okay, um, we call her meemaw yeah um, because my mom is southern, she's from alabama.

Speaker 4: 44:33

My mom's a southern belle.

Speaker 1: 44:34

Yeah, from alabama we're getting some of that jambalaya here in a couple weeks.

Speaker 5: 44:39

I can't wait, y'all just be ready?

Speaker 4: 44:43

um yeah, so I'm one half of my family, I'm very, very Southern, and the other side, my dad's side, we're very West Coast. My dad is from California. So, there's these competing cultures in our home.

Speaker 4: 44:55

But my grandmother comes to California at this point she's living with us for a little while, I think, while she got healthy, and then she got her own apartment and we moved into a bigger spot. We with us for a little while, I think, while she got healthy and then she got her own apartment and we we moved into a bigger spot. We got another kid in the house. You know stuff like that. Um, but it's around. This time I'm in elementary school.

Speaker 1: 45:14

Did dad get out of the military? Yeah, all right.

Speaker 4: 45:16

Uh, not long before or after.

Speaker 3: 45:19

All right.

Speaker 4: 45:20

My sister was born, I think the military was feeding some of the separation. There were some things that were not right, that the military was feeding and in order for my dad to walk upright fully he had to peace out. I also think he wanted out.

Speaker 2: 45:39

It's tough, man it is. It's tough for everybody.

Speaker 4: 45:42

So we're in California now. Military's not in the picture. What part of Cali Vista?

Speaker 2: 45:45

man it is. It's tough. It's tough for everybody. Yeah, so we're in California now. Military's not in the picture. My dad, what part of Cali?

Speaker 4: 45:47

Vista.

Speaker 2: 45:48

California. Okay, so still.

Speaker 1: 45:49

Vista, still Vista, I think it's a suburb of San Diego, oh, so Southern.

Speaker 3: 45:55

I can't remember.

Speaker 1: 45:58

I can't remember y'all.

Speaker 4: 46:01

I don to know it's not. Oceanside, California's got too many yeah.

Speaker 1: 46:06

And I was.

Speaker 4: 46:07

I'm in elementary school. I don't really know where I am outside of school.

Speaker 1: 46:10

He was talking about Stockton. I thought that was Southern California. It turns out it's Northern California. I have no idea where anything is in.

Speaker 4: 46:15

California, and we had lived in Northern California too at one point in the military, but but yeah, we're more Southern California. It's definitely Southern.

Speaker 3: 46:23

All right.

Speaker 4: 46:23

Okay, we're in Southern California. My mom's working, my dad's working, I'm in school, my grandmother my sister's in like a pre-K.

Speaker 1: 46:31

Good neighborhood.

Speaker 4: 46:32

Good enough? Yeah, looking back on it, probably not. Yeah, I didn't know that. Yeah, and my parents were very good at managing friendships and relationships all right for me

Speaker 4: 46:48

yeah, um and so um. But I did, you know, I had a couple friends at school. It was very diverse I'll say that very diverse neighborhood, I think it was an okay place to live while your kids are real little in elementary. Um god got us out of there before I went to middle school. I would have probably been lost if I had gone to middle school in.

Speaker 1: 47:06

Vista.

Speaker 4: 47:09

So, yeah, I went to Beaumont Elementary. I loved my school. It was a great place, yeah, except for Was school good for you? Yeah, I was good at it.

Speaker 3: 47:20

Yeah, okay.

Speaker 4: 47:21

I was not passionate about it. I'm very good at reading.

Speaker 3: 47:24

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 47:26

Very good at writing.

Speaker 1: 47:26

Math was a struggle kids that are passionate about school. I don't get them.

Speaker 2: 47:31

I'm just kidding, I don't either if you're good at it, man, and it's the one thing you're good at, go for it.

Speaker 4: 47:39

I get that there are people who, like my mom, is one of those people which is why I could say I don't either she loves to learn. She's avid about learning.

Speaker 1: 47:46

I love to learn, but just not in school. Well and see.

Speaker 4: 47:51

And I think there's some people that that is their way.

Speaker 1: 47:52

There's a way out. Give me something and tell me to tear it apart All over it. Give me a book and tell me to learn. I'm like.

Speaker 4: 48:06

It was music for me. I got time for that. It was definitely music for me. Um, I started playing uh through the suzuki method.

Speaker 1: 48:09

I started playing the violin at about three and a half four. What's the?

Speaker 4: 48:10

suzuki method. It's um, it's a method where you're not reading music yet, but they give you a violin and you have a bow and you're learning how to hold it, you're learning how to play, but it's kind of like a reward system. You're you're learning to balance your bow and your violin because there's a lifesaver on the end of the bow.

Speaker 4: 48:26

You don't want to drop your lifesaver, because if you do things right, you get to eat it okay, so, and I'm like four yeah, and I remember, and so because I like life so there was an emphasis on technique it was technique, but it was a way to teach kids who couldn't write their own name yet who couldn't read.

Speaker 1: 48:41

That's really music, yet that's really good to get.

Speaker 4: 48:43

I think it was a way to start them in technique and learning music. Well, mom put me in the suzuki method. So I'm young, I'm not even in school, and I'm learning how to play violin. By the time I'm in elementary school, I was playing the recorder.

Speaker 1: 48:57

You still play. You still play violin, no no, the lifesavers ended.

Speaker 4: 49:02

I was done they quit giving me treats. I'm done.

Speaker 1: 49:06

Where do I have to go next? I was a trumpet player.

Speaker 4: 49:08

Well, I did keep playing. I just didn't keep playing violin, so by the time I was in elementary, I picked up the recorder, the one that looks like the clarinet but it's plastic yeah. My parents loved that man. That was not great.

Speaker 1: 49:25

When I was in elementary school, everybody played the recorder there was like a part of the school where you learned to play the recorder.

Speaker 4: 49:27

I think you had to choose between the recorder like a trumpet or like a rhythm.

Speaker 1: 49:32

And my mom was like recorder, recorder.

Speaker 4: 49:34

We're not doing drums.

Speaker 1: 49:36

We're not doing drums in the house. If I remember correctly, we had to do our class did a concert with just the recorder. Just our class. You know what I mean. So it was like something. I mean I'm 20 years out of you, but I don't know.

Speaker 4: 49:46

I think maybe we got more options, but um, but then it's california school too. I don't know. I don't know if that matters but probably I was. I was playing the recorder. I loved music, but I I was always a singer, um, so for me the instruments were great and they're fun, and it was a way to explore a different side of my gift.

Speaker 1: 50:05

Did you sing in church as a kid? Oh yeah.

Speaker 4: 50:07

I think that was also the other reason I was getting bullied, because I was pretty good at singing and I was given solos and, to be fair, I worked hard on them, but I did have a gift and so I think there's just stuff, you know, kid stuff. But, I've been passionate. Mom knew music was something I was good at from a very young age. She was just like. You were just good at it. And she said pregnant with me. They went to a concert like an orchestral an orchestra.

Speaker 1: 50:37

We were sitting two Sundays ago. We were sitting over there by the cafe and your mom was telling somebody, yeah, she was telling somebody. Uh, she was telling somebody, but she was like, oh, we knew, we knew right away. Yeah, she was like just a little, and we were like, yep, she's a saint.

Speaker 3: 50:54

Yeah, yeah, I, I don't remember not knowing how to sing, like it just, and.

Speaker 4: 51:02

God gives you, he gives us all gifts, and that's just one of mine, but it was such um an easy one to pick out early on in life I latched on to it because once you're good at something and you know you're good at something as a kid and people affirm that in, you dude like there's nothing. There's nothing like being affirmed like okay, you're good at this keep working on it.

Speaker 4: 51:22

You sounded so great and and people smile and they, you know, I got flowers, like not for singing at church, but like I did talent shows at school and and so it was just like there's nothing bad about this at all that's what I started to get in like sixth, seventh, eighth grade, from my middle school teachers and stuff.

Speaker 2: 51:41

They started to really show, man, you've got a brain you need to use. So I started to get that. That's why school for me it was like, oh, if I really apply myself at school, man, these people start recognizing. It was like, oh, okay, yeah, that was the one thing that I had that was going. It was good for me.

Speaker 4: 51:57

And you need that as a kid.

Speaker 1: 52:05

You need value to the world and to the people around you. As a kid, my older brothers ruined it for me Every time I got to a new oh, you're a McCurdy. Oh God, here we go, I'm like what?

Speaker 4: 52:09

I don't even get a chance.

Speaker 1: 52:11

Well, I'm a firstborn, yeah.

Speaker 5: 52:12

But, you're out of here, I can't tell you?

Speaker 1: 52:17

how many times I heard, are you related to Fred McCurdy?

Speaker 5: 52:20

Oh.

Speaker 4: 52:21

God, here we go.

Speaker 1: 52:25

Another. Oh God, here we go, another one, like I promise I'll hold up to the standard. That's so funny, but no, elementary school was great.

Speaker 4: 52:30

I was a little bit of a tomboy or tomboy, I don't know Tomboy, tomboy, I don't know how to say that Tomboy. But I was a little bit of a tomboy, not because I wasn't girly, I was a girly girl.

Speaker 1: 52:49

Mommy daddy house Like that just was like no, I don't want to do that. Soccer.

Speaker 4: 52:54

Definitely.

Speaker 3: 52:55

I can't do that.

Speaker 5: 52:57

And California. I don't know how I would do that.

Speaker 4: 52:58

I'm in Southern California. 90% of my school is either white or Mexican.

Speaker 3: 53:03

Yeah, oh yeah.

Speaker 4: 53:04

So soccer, maybe football sometimes. But, soccer was normally the number one thing we were doing was either soccer wall ball um or I'm on the swings yeah but most of the time soccer the boys had their ball. They would come to school with their own balls because the school balls are trash, and so they were like no, I'm bringing my ball and they would I was begging. This was more rejection, though, because I'm one of the few girls that wants to play I'm not good yeah because I've been an only child for the last like eight years.

Speaker 5: 53:35

I didn't have anybody to play with and so they didn't want me on their team.

Speaker 4: 53:39

You know it was one of those.

Speaker 5: 53:40

Like you pick teams and I'm always the last one.

Speaker 4: 53:44

And so they were like oh, you get Ashley, you know, and it was and so what did I do? I ran the field back and forth. No one ever passed me the ball, but I had the time in my life.

Speaker 5: 53:53

I didn't really know that I was being rejected right away.

Speaker 4: 53:58

Um, but one year. I did break my hand because they finally passed me the ball and I was so like I'm not going to screw this up.

Speaker 1: 54:06

You know, and I'm a little bit of a- perfectionist.

Speaker 4: 54:08

So I'm working the ball down the field and I'm ready to kick for the goal, but someone no someone tried to. They were stealing, and so I'm thinking I can see them, but I'm not good enough where I can navigate the ball without looking at it. And so I'm trying to look at the ball, but I can see them coming and I'm trying to get away. They kicked the ball and I, for some reason, decided I'm going to switch feet and go left and kick with my left.

Speaker 4: 54:31

And I tripped and I put my hand out to stop. My fault broke three fingers on my right hand. Oh geez, and I'll never forget that. Stood up and my friend that went to church with me. Sorry y'all.

Speaker 1: 54:42

Oh, you're good. You're good, it's live, all the things.

Speaker 4: 54:45

But it still went off. But a friend that went to church her name was Ashley too she was pointing at my hand. She was like you just look at your hand, look at your hand, and I'm like trying to get back down the field because I'm so angry that I didn't get that goal, because now, I know they're not going to pick me first. And I finally look at my hand and there's a wave of pain. Just when I looked at it, the pain caught up with me?

Speaker 1: 55:08

Why can't I look at your name the same now? Why Look?

Speaker 4: 55:10

at your name, the same now.

Speaker 1: 55:11

Why? Because as soon as you said your friend from church her name was Ashley I said oh, another dead tree, another dead tree. That's what I thought in my head.

Speaker 4: 55:17

She was my number one bully by the way Dang that sucks she was my number one bully, I'm sorry. We went to church and school together, so that was fun.

Speaker 1: 55:25

I have no filter. I shouldn't have shared that.

Speaker 2: 55:27

That was the first thing that popped in my head Every Ashley he meets. Now he's going to be, oh, a dead tree.

Speaker 3: 55:33

I'll tell you her last name off air, just in case she ever listens to this.

Speaker 4: 55:36

But her last name is interesting, but yeah no, so I broke my hand, but God was good, school was good. I liked school for the most part. I like learning, I like science. I liked computers. We did do computers in elementary school. There's original MacBooks.

Speaker 2: 55:54

Oh yeah, which is crazy. That was the one with the Oregon Trail. Yes, remember, I love the Oregon Trail. I was so good at Oregon Trail.

Speaker 4: 56:02

I killed it.

Speaker 2: 56:02

I actually made it. Yes, I made it. I never did yeah.

Speaker 1: 56:06

That's awesome. I actually got my dad to buy it. I feel old. I don't even know what you guys are talking about. Okay, so for everyone else that may not know what we're talking about, it's a computer game that you could play and they taught you what the Oregon Trail was.

Speaker 4: 56:18

But it's like Sims or something. You had to get your family through the Oregon Trail your cows would die in the water. Your wagons would break Snake bit.

Speaker 2: 56:28

I don't know how he was in prison, but when we were playing Oregon Trail.

Speaker 4: 56:31

Yeah, it was the 90s. Yeah, I was born in 86, for all of you that are wondering. So yeah, I was a 90s kid, I was doing the math in my head. I figured you were in school probably about 2000.

Speaker 1: 56:43

No, I'm a little older than that, are you?

Speaker 4: 56:46

Just a little, but yeah, so I was good at school, I loved school. I had a teacher that ruined math for me I think I would have been better at it if they had just been more patient but she compared me to another kid and was like this kid goes really fast. Ashley needs some help and did it in front of my parents that was the only thing I was good at yeah, man, your words, your words have power.

Speaker 4: 57:05

So she said, I wasn't good at math or as good as jennifer was I still remember her name, um and she had jennifer come over and read the math facts. You know how you had to do like rocket math, where you had to fire off the facts quickly.

Speaker 3: 57:17

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 57:18

I had to count. Okay, I would get there, but I had to count. And she had them more memorized.

Speaker 1: 57:23

Yeah, you guys ever do around the world with flashcards.

Speaker 4: 57:26

Oh.

Speaker 1: 57:26

I hated that Really. I loved it. So when I was in elementary school we had this girl. It was an Asian girl. Her name was Diep Lee. I'll always remember her. She was the smartest girl in class. We would do math flashcards around the world. I beat her every time. Every time I would make the furthest around, every time in math flashcards.

Speaker 4: 57:47

That's why you remember her, because you beat her.

Speaker 1: 57:50

Yeah, yeah, I told you he's competitive. But from that time on I loved math because I knew that I'm good at that, I can win. I'm good at that, you know what I mean.

Speaker 4: 57:58

Well, I got better at math later, when someone took the time to associate it to music for me, oh, that's good, and then it opened up.

Speaker 1: 58:05

I still use numbers today.

Speaker 4: 58:07

Yeah, we all do.

Speaker 1: 58:08

Degrees, angles, length.

Speaker 4: 58:10

Yeah, yeah, love it, but you need to read more.

Speaker 2: 58:14

Get him, get him More of my Bible. Yeah, that's what she's telling you bud.

Speaker 4: 58:18

Spoil alert.

Speaker 1: 58:28

I'm an English teacher, are you? Yeah, oh, you didn't know that he didn't.

Speaker 4: 58:30

Well, he's going to know me, but yeah, so I would always I would pick with the math teachers I used to work with and they're like you need math. You need math for everything and I'm like yeah, but you can't read a word. Problem until you learn how to read. So you actually need English more.

Speaker 1: 58:41

See, I didn't mind word problems.

Speaker 4: 58:42

I can solve word problems Not if you can't read, Well, I can read. Elementary school was good. My grandmother moving to California, though, was rough, because she this is. I encountered God in waves. Honestly, I'm one of the second set of people where it wasn't just a moment.

Speaker 1: 59:07

He revealed himself like an onion. There were layers.

Speaker 4: 59:10

So my grandmother moves to California. So my grandmother moves to California and I don't know how many of you listening have ever watched Tyler Perry movies or Madea my grandmother is Madea.

Speaker 2: 59:22

Oh my gosh.

Speaker 4: 59:23

Oh no, I remember the first Tyler Perry movie I saw about that woman and I was like, oh, I must be related to Tyler somehow. Like he's met my grandmother, like it's and most black people, I think, or african-american people, have that feeling, but she she is, that she carries yeah she was my introduction to drugs and alcohol and drinking. I did not do any of that stuff, but she was a living warning label for me um and wow, and she was my mom would say by the time I knew my grandmother and she was in my world.

Speaker 4: 59:58

She was much better than the mother that my mom had Okay. But so I'm growing up. I'm in California, I'm, you know, the age is between like seven and 10.

Speaker 4: 1:00:08

And I, after school, I get off the bus and I walk, maybe not even half a mile from the bus stop to my grandmother's house, because my parents are both at work yeah and so I go to her house and, um, you know, she might be out on the balcony smoking, or she might have had a few drinks and uh, and I do my homework or whatever, and I'd watch Disney Channel if she'd let me. A lot of the times she would have her soaps on and she'd fall asleep in the recliner on top of the remote.

Speaker 2: 1:00:38

And I try to get the remote notice how she remembers that. Oh man, man, she's on the remote. Again, that was traumatizing because her soap operas are on yeah I want to watch my cartoon and I want to watch disney channel and but the thing was she would be like like passed out because she had had some stuff, some drinks or some smoking, and so I'm like, okay, I'm going to get the remote right and it's dead weight.

Speaker 4: 1:01:04

But the thing, this is what I don't understand, because I'd get my hand in there and I could feel it, and then she would go stop, how did you know You're out? I would have been talking to her from before. She would say nothing, but I touched the remote and suddenly she'd wake up and I'm like, well, meemaw, I want to change the channel. And she's like no, I'm just checking my eyelids for holes and I'm like what are you talking about? Can I change?

Speaker 4: 1:01:34

So this struggle, struggle I didn't even really say anything to my parents because I'm like I go to my grandmother's house and it's her tv, and it's her house and every now and then she would give me the remote. But um, this is where the enemy is your little sister, over at grandma's too, she's what's crazy, she's at my old pre-k because my grandmother, at this point, lives in the apartment that my mom and I used to live in okay which overlooks down the hill is you could go to the balcony and look down and see the playground of the my old pre-k called all saints, and so my sister is there and you're at grandma.

Speaker 4: 1:02:06

I'm straight up the hill at grandmother's and my sister would literally call me, ma, me, ma, and then my grandmother would get tired of hearing my sister call, so she'd go pick up my sister. Sometimes early by the time we were done.

Speaker 4: 1:02:19

There all the kids knew who me ma was um, but so I'm at my grandmother's house in this one particular time, um, this is where my journey gets a little tension filled. The enemy is always ready like a, you know, like a lion seeking who he may devour. Um, my grandmother has a soap opera on on the tv. She's 100 passed out, but I can't find the remote and it's like so deep in the couch, wherever she's sitting, that it's like there's no way yeah, there's just no way yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:02:50

So I'm stuck, I'm doing my homework, I don't really know what to do. I could go play outside, but they don't seem friends. The neighborhood friends don't seem to be around and there's a sex scene that I am way too young to be seeing, and I know I'm not supposed to see it because we've had these conversations in my family, but there's soap opera.

Speaker 4: 1:03:08

It's all sex anyway, at least from what I was able to see and the scene is happening on the TV and I'm I don't know what to do and so I look away. But then I'm looking and I can still hear it. It's turned up loud and just it was weird and I felt weird about it but didn't communicate really to my parents what happened, didn't really say anything to my grandmother because I know she's not going when you say weird, you mean like uncomfortable.

Speaker 1: 1:03:35

Oh, totally, totally, this is wrong yeah I shouldn't be watching this.

Speaker 4: 1:03:40

Um, and it's everything about it felt inappropriate. Inappropriate um, and I was probably like eight or nine yeah so, but I don't know what to do because I would naturally, at home, when commercials or things like that will come up at home, mom and dad say close your eyes or they cover our eyes or they change the channel. So I know there is a response that's supposed to happen when this stuff comes.

Speaker 4: 1:04:01

But I have no way to do that and I don't. I don't know why I didn't think of just powering off the tv at the button, but I didn't and I wound up watching it and that was a seed that the enemy later was he was going to use, and so, but this is my world. My grandmother smoked and drank a lot and I didn't like what it did to her.

Speaker 1: 1:04:29

Were your parents aware of that?

Speaker 4: 1:04:32

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:04:32

I mean my grandmother always smoked in your like my

Speaker 4: 1:04:34

mom, grew up under that, but she was better that's why that's why?

Speaker 2: 1:04:39

that's why your mom, was okay with you walking over there after school and I was told, if it no, there were boundaries.

Speaker 4: 1:04:47

Like if your grandmother ever does this or if you if you ever blah blah, you let me know okay, um so, and my grandmother, for the most part in her ability, did respect my parents roles. She didn't like you know, tell me to pour her drink, or you know come she might have said like with your mom, right yeah, she didn't tell me to get out.

Speaker 4: 1:05:06

She wasn't doing with you what she was doing with your mother, not at all okay, um, but she wasn't hiding it either yeah, and so addiction comes in many forms, man, everybody and I, I didn't know addictive behavior was something that could be genetic, yeah, and I don't think my parents knew that either, and so in hindsight I think my parents would have tried to find other situations for me, and I think my mom did, but they were limited.

Speaker 1: 1:05:34

You know, we're not flush you know, I can't just think that knowledge was available back then.

Speaker 4: 1:05:39

No, and so um, but I knew smoking and drinking was wrong. I didn't like what it did to her I didn't want any part of it. And then dare came to my school and I just say no just say no. And they were showing me the pictures of what lungs look like and what bodies look like and what livers look, and if you know someone that smokes or drinks, you should tell them what they. Well, what do I know?

Speaker 4: 1:06:01

I'm empowered with all this information and I'm going home after school to my grandmother's house and I and this is the same kid praying, faith believing yeah right, I have, I still have that faith. My faith is turned way up yeah so I get to the house, my grandmother was downstairs, outside downstairs, at her garage. It was separated from her apartment and she's doing something with her car. I get in the house and I'm moving fast. I take all the bottles, I take all the cigarettes oh no I'm, I'm like because I'm I'm thinking she must not know yeah like she.

Speaker 4: 1:06:35

There's no way she's doing this knowing what it's doing to her insides right, and so I break the all the cigarettes oh, no flush them down the toilet because I knew if I put them in the trash can she's just getting them out right, and then I pour I'm all.

Speaker 4: 1:06:51

it was Jack Daniels and something else. I'm pouring it down the sink Like I've got like three or four bottles. And then I took the bottles, put them in a grocery bag and thinking I'm hiding it, put it in a grocery bag and then threw the grocery bag away like upside down Like okay, she's not going to see. I'm still pretty young and you know eventually.

Speaker 1: 1:07:11

It didn't turn out good.

Speaker 4: 1:07:13

She went to go get a cigarette out of her purse.

Speaker 1: 1:07:15

And I knew where all her stashes were, because she didn't hide anything, you know, and so she's like okay, I thought I had, and she's looking and looking.

Speaker 4: 1:07:24

And then she sees the bottles and she looked at me and she said what did you do? And I was like I love you and I want you to live. And you know I'm thinking she's gonna appreciate oh yeah my love.

Speaker 4: 1:07:37

That woman filled the bathtub oh yeah put a towel in the bathtub, wrung it out and whooped me with a wet towel those hurt I and they don't can cut they can yeah, we cut each other in prison, snapping them but she knew how to do it in such a way where it didn't leave a welt yeah and it didn't, it didn't she? Oh, this woman is a master yeah and and she knew she couldn't use a belt on me because that would have totally crossed the boundaries with my parents.

Speaker 4: 1:08:07

Yeah, yeah, I mean she was, she was hot and I was I heard every word like every curse word every I and I was looking at because, again, I'm the granddaughter I've never seen this side of her and I'm like Mima, how can you call me that, mima? What are you doing? Mima, don't do that. She's like oh, you go, you gonna know today, and just like it was so bad, then my mom comes, she picks me up and now I'm angry'm angry and I'm like I'm going to tell my mama on you, she's like tell your mama I don't care about going to jail.

Speaker 4: 1:08:37

You know all of that. I tell my mom and my mom starts crying, laughing, and I'm like why aren't you defending me? Like this is offensive, I'm angry. And she was like I did the same thing when I was your age and she was like your meemaw tore me up. She's like just leave her stuff alone.

Speaker 4: 1:08:56

Like you can't throw out her stuff, you know, and she let me know that I crossed the boundary, that I was technically wrong by going in and doing that, but I was so mad. And I was mad at the DARE people.

Speaker 1: 1:09:07

Because I was like well, I told because they told me to help.

Speaker 4: 1:09:12

You know they were saying help your family, help your loved ones. They didn't explain that you can't just rip away addictive stuff from an addict and expect that to go well, and so I was shook, but my grandmother still loved me and all that it was great.

Speaker 1: 1:09:28

That's fantastic. Yeah, that's a great story. I love that, but in all of that.

Speaker 4: 1:09:32

Um, I never really struggled with drugs or drinking because you got to see grandma. Yeah, yeah I mean, and she told me she was like, if you have she, because she drank a lot and she smoked more than just cigarettes I'll just say that yeah so she would explain like if you see it like this, and this isn't- don't touch it, yeah but if they rolled it like this and they look at this way then make sure it's got this much, and I don't know why, but I think she was just real and was like you may not get through life without trying something yeah so you no granddaughter of mine yeah is gonna be out there trying stuff that's going she's gonna know what it is right yeah, and so I'm, and I'm telling her I don't need to know me, ma I don't need to know.

Speaker 4: 1:10:12

And she's like, shut up, listen, like, and so she she's an og man.

Speaker 4: 1:10:17

She was yeah, yeah and and then, at the same time, I don't want to see you doing this, I don't want to see you buying that, I don't want to see you drinking, I don't. And so it was like teaching me but then also telling me don't get in it. And I, but I didn't want to learn from me and I didn't want to, mostly because of my voice yeah um, I heard the way she sounded after smoking, helen that rasp Helen let me tell you something granddaughter and I could hear the smoker's cough.

Speaker 4: 1:10:45

I could hear the, the drinking, you know and I was like I have a gift in my throat. I am not doing that junk because I don't know what, I don't know if I'll be able to sing anymore, and so that, in a way, kept me from. When the opportunities did come, I was like, no, I'm not drinking.

Speaker 1: 1:11:02

Every time Dara came around when my kids were young.

Speaker 2: 1:11:05

We don't talk about what we do in the house. Don't tell them what you see at home.

Speaker 1: 1:11:09

They're going to show you pictures of this right here. You better not mention that mom and dad had that at home. You just keep your mouth shut.

Speaker 4: 1:11:15

No, after that Derek came and I was just like don't believe the hype, y'all, Don't believe the hype.

Speaker 1: 1:11:24

I was a weed smoker for a long time and I'd always tell the kids they're going to show you pictures of this, but don't be saying, oh, my mom and dad have some of that at home no right yeah, because last thing we need is cops showing up at the house.

Speaker 4: 1:11:37

You know I mean I, I get that. Yeah, my grandmother it was real she did not care no she did not, but she lived a really hard life um I mean she had boyfriends that were straight up wanted by the law and I've talked to you.

Speaker 1: 1:11:51

I've heard your mom talk a little bit. Yeah, I can't wait to get hers on.

Speaker 4: 1:11:56

Yeah, so that was elementary, I think we moved.

Speaker 1: 1:12:00

Is your mean mom still with you? Oh yeah, really she's older now, wow.

Speaker 4: 1:12:05

She's feeling she's reaping the benefits of that lifestyle.

Speaker 1: 1:12:09

Oh, I bet it takes its toll, man, but she's still with us.

Speaker 4: 1:12:14

She's almost 80. She's in her 80s.

Speaker 1: 1:12:16

The generations in my family are really close together. You still have a relationship with her. Yeah, can we talk. She calls me.

Speaker 4: 1:12:20

Diva, that's my nickname. She's Meemaw Amen, but yeah, the generations from my. So my great-grandmother Meemaw's mom. We called her granny. Yeah, she had me, ma when she was about 13, 14, 13, 14, me ma had my mom at about 16. My mom had me in early 20s. Yeah, so I actually knew my great-grandmother from for a long time. Wow, so I could go backwards three generations on my mom's side. Um and so it. Yeah, we're close, but all of us are firstborn women too.

Speaker 4: 1:12:58

So my great, my great grandmother my grandmother, my mother and me were the firstborns, were daughters, and so um there's, there's a lot there.

Speaker 1: 1:13:07

There's gotta be some significance to that.

Speaker 4: 1:13:08

I think for me it was significance in the fact that the Lord allowed me to see. It was almost like every day was a picture of. Choose this day who you will serve. Like you can go this direction. This is the example. This is your bloodline and this is available to you.

Speaker 2: 1:13:25

Come on.

Speaker 4: 1:13:26

Or you can do like my mom was the one that broke away and really got closer to God.

Speaker 3: 1:13:31

Come on.

Speaker 4: 1:13:32

And so the Lord was like, or you can continue in the pathway that your mom has, and I and. God have set you on, but it was always in front of me, I could go. I could go either way and I could ruin the new thing God was doing in our generation, if I wanted or I could choose to trust him and keep going in the way that God had called me.

Speaker 1: 1:13:56

I think I'm the first fear my youngest son. Hopefully he'll keep that fear going the right direction.

Speaker 5: 1:14:01

Oh yeah, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 1:14:03

Because you look back at mine, my grandfather was an alcoholic gambler, all that stuff. You know what I mean. My dad alcoholic, whatever. You know what I mean yeah. I'm the first one to kind of dad alcoholic, whatever. You know what I mean.

Speaker 4: 1:14:13

Yeah, I'm the first one to kind of yeah, and that's not to say that they didn't have a relationship with God, but that he was not always Lord, and I think that was just clear for me as a kid. I could see you know of God you know the scriptures.

Speaker 2: 1:14:24

There's a big difference from being saved and walking with.

Speaker 4: 1:14:28

God, yeah, completely different. And walking submitted.

Speaker 2: 1:14:32

Yep.

Speaker 4: 1:14:32

Because, there are a lot of people Like you said Lord, yeah, lord over your choices, lord, over your will, lord over your life and that was a difference maker and I could see that. What's that scripture?

Speaker 1: 1:14:41

say Even the demons believe. Hello, yeah. So believing in God don't mean squat man, it means nothing.

Speaker 4: 1:14:47

Yeah, like we all should be, anyway, but yeah, somebody said that, though, because they knew god, but they he wasn't the lord, not always. That's a difference, yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, it really is a significant difference. Choices me, ma's still around, she's still gangster me, ma yeah, oh, she's still, oh, still gangster come on, man like that, don't die easy bro, mama's gonna be around for a while bud, yeah, right, she's, she's gangster, but I love it about her.

Speaker 4: 1:15:15

She's always had my back when I needed her um so your girls have a relationship with me, mom not really, because she's in alabama okay, so there's they. They have talked to her on facetime and things like that. But there's not a whole lot there, not the relationship like I had, because I was in her house almost daily. You know, but that's by design too. She's in her older age. As you get older, the gates get lower and the things that you try to keep in and not say when you're around kids, they slip.

Speaker 4: 1:15:48

I don't need my four or five year old.

Speaker 2: 1:15:50

Learning new words, walking around jerks saying oh my god, where'd you learn that me?

Speaker 5: 1:15:54

ma oh my god, no, my four or five year old learning new words.

Speaker 2: 1:15:56

Walking around jerks saying things oh my God, Where'd you learn that Me, Ma? Oh my God. No.

Speaker 4: 1:16:00

It's just that Life. Life teaches you things.

Speaker 2: 1:16:05

One of the brothers around here, man, just had a boy and his boy said a word that he's like oh no, don't, you're not supposed to say that. And he's like. Now my little one's walking around the house saying it. I'm like, oh my.

Speaker 4: 1:16:16

God and you can't react like that. Yeah, because then they're like ooh, I've got power, ooh, you know, and now they're going to use it.

Speaker 4: 1:16:27

Yeah, you can't act like you have to ignore it. What did you say? Ignoring? But what you say? Oh, I didn't hear that. But but no, but me, ma, she had my back. But she was a huge, a key player in my life because she was a picture of I hate that. I hate me, ma I love you. So if you listen to this, know that I love you. But she was a picture of what could go wrong.

Speaker 2: 1:16:45

It's real god will do. Look so my me and my addictions and everything that I've done in life. Pastor ashley, my little brother and my sister, literally said I am not going to do what Rowdy has done. So God will literally put people in your life and allow you to experience things with people to see. Look, like you said, this day I give you a blessing and a curse. It's up to you what you choose.

Speaker 4: 1:17:10

Yeah, and I was terrified for a while that I would be like her because, looking at the generations my great-grandmother did walk with, later in her life she figured out lordship of Christ and she was walking with him, so what I saw was Skips generation. It was skipping a generation. My great-grandmother was walking with the Lord. My grandmother wasn't.

Speaker 4: 1:17:29

My mom was walking with the Lord and I'm going, going, oh my gosh like I don't want to be like me and so I was afraid there was a part of me and it was really the enemy, I think, in a way messing with my reasoning. Yeah, there was a part of me that was like is me ma like this because she chooses this, or is there something going on where I'm next?

Speaker 3: 1:17:54

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:17:55

You know, and so I, I ran hard after Jesus.

Speaker 3: 1:18:00

Amen, I had a fear. Some of it like fear of the.

Speaker 4: 1:18:03

I'm going to be like her.

Speaker 3: 1:18:04

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:18:05

Um, and some of that also, because I am very different than my mom and my grandmother and I. I could see how we were personality wise. We were a lot alike as a kid, and so I'm like, oh shoot, I'm like her you know, and so all the associations were just warning bells. And I was like God. Please don't let me be like God. Please don't let me drink.

Speaker 1: 1:18:29

Please don't let you know, cause I'm afraid the minute I taste something, I'm gonna be an addict.

Speaker 4: 1:18:33

An addict, you know and some of that may have been the holy spirit just using that to keep me yeah because he did set me free from that fear, but it took a while for me to believe, though. My choices are my choices and her choices are her choices, and I may be similar to my grandmother because we're related, but I am not my grandmother and god. Same life and and god does not. He doesn't repeat, people come on man and so, but it took time. Yeah, it took time.

Speaker 2: 1:18:59

So but what was uh? What was high school like high school?

Speaker 4: 1:19:02

so we moved. We left california um. It's important to say this I had my first bout of racism in elementary school.

Speaker 1: 1:19:10

Um as a black woman yeah, um, so I'm getting.

Speaker 4: 1:19:14

I'll go directly to high school after this, but I was on a bus. Um, it doesn't matter that he was mexican, but he was yeah so that's, it's just a fact. He got on the bus, held a knife um to my face and told me to move or he would cut me. And at this point I I know about but civil rights and you know, I'm going I don't have to move like rosa parks, handle that you know, but I'm afraid of this knife so what do I?

Speaker 4: 1:19:40

do I move um and it became a whole big thing. Uh, my grandmother was ready to shoot somebody but og coming out, but he he called me the n-word and that was the first time I had heard it and I was like you're so stupid, You're brown too.

Speaker 1: 1:19:54

You know like.

Speaker 4: 1:19:55

Yeah. But his response was but you're black, oh wow. And so I was like so there was a dividing line. So then that happened. I didn't know what to do with that. I kind of packed it away emotionally. Then we left California and moved to Dallas, texas, and so now I'm in the South and I've already had this weird moment. But high school was, for the most part, was good. But we went, we moved to Frisco, which is like booming. Now it's a great place to live, but at the time it was like Gilbert 10, 20 years ago. It was nowhere. One high school like two elementary schools Frisco, Texas.

Speaker 4: 1:20:33

Frisco is a suburb of dallas, okay, um, so that you have denton and louisville and plano frisco is right next to plano um, and so I, but I'm not in high school yet, I'm in middle school when we moved there. So I'm there for sixth, seventh, eighth grade, all the way to 10th grade in frisco, texas, the mom and dad are still.

Speaker 4: 1:20:53

Mom and dad are together, my sister's with me we moved because my dad's job, but it wasn't the army yeah um, it was just a relocation situation um, god blessed us, put us in a house that was beautiful. It was brand new, new build type thing oh, so up to this point it was like apartments, condos and stuff it was a, an apartment, and then we moved like up the hill in california to a house that was like 100 years old like legitimately because california is old

Speaker 4: 1:21:21

but it was a beautiful home. It was just old and then we moved from california to dallas area, to frisco and my parents got to buy a spec home. And so that was like amazing.

Speaker 2: 1:21:36

Well, you know the feeling of that I do.

Speaker 4: 1:21:38

It's just amazing I do. I'm going to pick out my cabinets and my counters and my floors. We lived in the hotel for the job put us in like this hotel situation for a little while and then they finished the house and we moved in. I started school in Frisco. We lived on 641010 notaway court and my mom would I remember that, because she would say he will make a way out of no way and so talking about god, not away, not away.

Speaker 4: 1:22:05

But it was our new house, so he made a way, and so it was cool I had neighbors next door that I went to school with. It was a really different environment going from california to the to.

Speaker 1: 1:22:14

Texas.

Speaker 4: 1:22:15

Um, the school was massive. My middle school was bigger than most of the high schools here in. Gilbert, like thousands of kids. And so I went from a relatively normal elementary school environment to a massive middle school in sixth grade. Um, and I'm getting to take like all these classes for the first time. I'm gonna have like six classes on my schedule and they're like what are your electives gonna be? And I'm going I don't know what's an elective?

Speaker 2: 1:22:43

yeah, I don't know. I can elect not to come do something for fun, right?

Speaker 4: 1:22:48

and so my mom's helping me get registered and we kind of came a little bit later into this.

Speaker 4: 1:22:53

I think they were just figuring things out so I'm feeling the rush of like school is starting and we got to figure this stuff out um, I chose band as an elective because I'm a music kid, and I've been a music kid my whole life, and so I'm playing the clarinet now nice um and I, I found my place there, like that was. That was home base for me at school. It was like man, I know what to expect, I know what to do I know I'm good at music? Um, the rest of school was interesting. Middle school was tough.

Speaker 4: 1:23:22

Um, a lot of kids, a lot of different culture uh, somewhat, I think not different culture more, not not really, but really, but different, uh, black culture yeah um, because I wasn't really around all of that, all that much outside of church in california I didn't have that many black kids. I went to school with and at school in california or just wasn't friends with that many.

Speaker 4: 1:23:50

Now I'm in texas and they're everywhere and I love that but, at the same time, I'm getting responses like you don't know about this and you ain't heard about that and what? How can you be black and not know this? And just like and so, but yes, but I'm also, I'm realizing I'm a west coast kid in a southern environment.

Speaker 1: 1:24:07

I don't know stuff that they grew up knowing. Yeah, because.

Speaker 4: 1:24:11

I lived in this place where it didn't really matter you know, and so I'm going, oh okay, and I'm in sixth and seventh and eighth grade and the boys are cute and and so there's feelings and all this stuff and it's swirling and I still I have a relationship with the Lord. Church was awesome in Dallas. I have to say that God moved us to, um, uh, the church was called covenant church. It was in Carrollton, texas, and that is where my faith with him, god, revealed more of himself. Um, and I needed it because I was in a whole it was a whole different pond the whole different ball game and so at church, um, I'm going to church and it's a bigger church.

Speaker 4: 1:24:52

There's lots and lots and lots and lots of people. But some people may know this name, but Cindy Cindy Cruz, she's a worship leader. Her name was Cindy Cruz at the time. She's Cindy Cruz Ratcliffe now. Eventually, she went on to be a worship leader at Joel Osteen's church, but she started at.

Speaker 4: 1:25:09

Covenant when I was in middle school, she was my worship leader, and so I'm watching this woman who's amazing and like stuff is coming out of her mouth and I'm like how do I do that? You know, like how do I? And? She didn't really know me. Know me, but there were a few moments because I joined the worship team as a middle schooler. We had our own, you know, like here we had our own generation's environment and they they wanted a worship team.

Speaker 4: 1:25:34

Yeah, for our environment. And I was like sign me up like coming in a black church. It's not a black church, it is it was the only other church I've ever gone to. That was a lot like lifelink I love that diversity. You would see anything and everything of all different colors and nationalities love it.

Speaker 1: 1:25:52

Um, yeah, it was Were your churches in California, predominantly black churches.

Speaker 4: 1:25:55

Predominantly. That one was the one in California and it was very much black, was this?

Speaker 1: 1:25:59

your first experience with a diverse church that you could like.

Speaker 4: 1:26:05

I think it had to be.

Speaker 1: 1:26:06

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:26:07

Or that I knew of. You know that I was old enough to appreciate the diversity.

Speaker 1: 1:26:11

But I said that appreciate.

Speaker 4: 1:26:14

Yeah, I was old enough to appreciate it.

Speaker 1: 1:26:17

Sometimes that can be a shock for some people to experience that. You know what I mean.

Speaker 4: 1:26:21

Oh, you know it didn't shock me, but I also lived in California, so while it was probably the first time it was happening at church for me, it wasn't the first time for me. I was used to being the only black person in the room most of the time, and so it wasn't something that was new for me to see a whole bunch of other people.

Speaker 1: 1:26:45

I like to go experience a black church one of these times, like a south black church, just the way they get down and people are.

Speaker 4: 1:26:53

Let my mom and dad help you pick the church.

Speaker 5: 1:26:56

Yeah, don't lead you in the right way.

Speaker 4: 1:26:58

Yeah, you don't want to just go experience.

Speaker 1: 1:26:59

I would like to experience it you know what I mean, because yeah, once I well, once I watch videos of I'm like damn they getting it. You know what I mean?

Speaker 4: 1:27:07

oh, they do yeah and but and. Then sometimes it's like where are we going with this?

Speaker 1: 1:27:11

but you know.

Speaker 2: 1:27:13

So it's just one hour and one song is like what is this?

Speaker 4: 1:27:17

we are at the core.

Speaker 1: 1:27:19

We are all human, we are all prone to the same stumbling blocks and the same blessings I saw this video the other day and it was from a black church and the worship leader and the backup singer are like start fighting on stage. Yeah, that's not healthy.

Speaker 4: 1:27:35

Like they're, like you're doing too much so the the one thing I would have to say, not in defense of that, because I don't know what you saw, but I will say that, um, as a people, what I've noticed, african-american people, we, we are a little we're how do I say this word I'm looking for, not salty we, we, just we play with each other, yeah, we, and so sometimes I don't know what you saw but, sometimes from.

Speaker 4: 1:28:03

If you're an outside looking in, it may seem like they're arguing yeah, but a lot of times it's it's family stuff it's just in the wrong context like you're like maybe you shouldn't do that on stage in front of the whole church.

Speaker 1: 1:28:14

You gave me a good chuckle. You know I mean right, I'm like ladies.

Speaker 4: 1:28:17

I don't know sometimes, yeah, I love black church. There's a, there's a lot, there's a lot to be said for it. But, um, but yeah, covenant was an amazing experience. I grew a lot musically there. I grew a lot as a youth. So, um, I'm in this school, I'm doing okay. Texas is harder. Texas is in the top 10 as far as rankings in the united states and california is just not. Yeah, so I am. I have a lot of not catching up to do, but I'm not used to the rigor you're being challenged.

Speaker 2: 1:28:45

I'm being challenged almost over challenged.

Speaker 1: 1:28:48

Okay, um, but I'm competitive well, plus, you went from elementary school to a different school system.

Speaker 4: 1:28:55

That's.

Speaker 1: 1:28:55

that's a big change Now you're six different classes versus just one teacher, you know what I mean.

Speaker 4: 1:28:59

Yeah, yeah so, but I was up to the challenge. I had no choice. Education was not an option in our home, it was. It was Jesus Obey your mom and dad, go to school. Good grades yes, go to school, do your best. Good grades was definitely expected, but if it was your best and it wasn't the best grade, we will accept that, but nothing less than your best. And so I knew I was like I'm going to have to succeed, or I don't know what my mom and dad are going to do to me.

Speaker 4: 1:29:32

Like there was just so. But so I'm in school, I'm doing great at Covenant Church. It was such a unique experience that church did so much for my walk with God. We got there, we hadn't been there very long and they were about to put on this play, kind of like we do here with the kids.

Speaker 4: 1:29:52

And there's this production and um. It was really this story of jacob and um. I got the chance to be in it and they found out I was pretty good at singing and so I wanted a role. But I didn't get a role. I got to be like one of the angels or something, um, but they found out I was pretty good at singing, so they grabbed a group of us and they brought us down to the studio in the basement of the church this church is very. It was doing very well financially.

Speaker 4: 1:30:19

And we got to record some of the backing tracks for the original songs, some of them that we were singing for our own kids production. So, I was 11 and I'm in the studio for the first time with headphones and a microphone, and they're telling me what to do. I'm in the studio for the first time with headphones and a microphone and they're telling me what to do.

Speaker 1: 1:30:36

I'm in a kid.

Speaker 4: 1:30:36

I'm a kid in a candy store, like I am losing my mind and this is my church and so I'm going okay okay okay, and I'm seeing levels there were.

Speaker 4: 1:30:43

there were pastors there, um, their names are John and Amy Hochler. They were beautiful people and for some reason they saw me. I don't know why they just they saw me and one day pulled me aside with my mom and started speaking into my life a little bit prophetically. And then I will never forget, he had the bluest eyes. He like, he was like look at me, look at me. And I, almost in fear, I was like, oh my gosh. And I looked at him and he was like Grammys. And he just said that out of nowhere.

Speaker 4: 1:31:12

I didn't even know what a Grammy was yet. I probably should have, but I didn't. And then my mom was like and then, at the same time, my mom was like whatever God has, like whatever cause she knew what he was prophesying and I think I don't want to say he was wrong.

Speaker 4: 1:31:31

I think he was sensing something but put flesh on it. Yeah, but they saw me and I felt seen, I felt valued, I felt like I could bring my gift and I could add to it. We did this production and that was my second encounter with God. I'm up in the balconies. They had a sheet coming down from where, like the curtain would be on the stage, and it was this very sheer sheet because we're dressed as angels and they had the lights positioned just right where it looked like a host of angels there's probably 50, 60 kids back there singing the chorus of you are holy by the christian group.

Speaker 4: 1:32:05

Called for him the letter four in him and I still can sing the song it's crazy um, but we're singing and the kid who's acting as Jacob?

Speaker 4: 1:32:14

it was a modern retelling, so there was like graffiti and run away from home and it was like you know it was 90s, so it's this modern retelling of the story of Jacob and he's asleep and this is the part of the biblical story where that he's seeing Jacob's ladder. You know, the angels are sending and descending and we're singing this song and I had this moment where I could see across the church and the church was big, the very back on both sides there were two massive angels and they were real yeah but I was like I'm singing the song and I'm like elbowing the kids next to me.

Speaker 4: 1:32:48

I'm like look, look, and we're not supposed to talk because we have microphones all over us not over us but above us and she's like shh, don't say anything. And I'm like angels, like they're right there. And it was the first time I had seen in the spirit, which I didn't know was a gift I had um up until this point wow and I don't know what to do, like I'm, I'm, I'm trying to figure out.

Speaker 4: 1:33:11

Like, are these special effects that the guys put into the production, or are they real angels, or you know, because the church had money and we could do stuff. And then they were beautiful and I saw the sword in like the sheet.

Speaker 1: 1:33:26

They were standing guard.

Speaker 4: 1:33:26

They were standing, but like floor to ceiling stories tall.

Speaker 1: 1:33:30

They were standing guard.

Speaker 4: 1:33:32

And I again didn't know what to do with that moment. I told my mom I was like mom, I saw angels in the church today and she was like yeah, yeah, okay you know, like what do you do? He's just like praise the lord and um. I just. I remembered that I was like, okay, that was cool, I thought that was just the moment yeah I didn't think that was something I was able to do. I was just like, wow, God showed up so big.

Speaker 3: 1:33:58

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:33:59

People could see angels, like I didn't think I was the only one that saw them, and so that was the beginning of a really interesting journey. In Texas, I'm going to school, I'm doing the work, I'm getting deeper in the word. My church is having a Bible study as I'm getting older, like moving through middle school into high school, my youth pastors are teaching us and like really teaching us.

Speaker 4: 1:34:23

We would go on Wednesday nights to a class called metamorphosis, which is about the transition from caterpillar to butterfly on the surface, but underneath it was a transition from death to life and actually being a disciple and making disciples. And I'm a freshman in high school going to metaphor metamorphosis on Wednesday night before Wednesday night service for like students would start. I have a notebook, I have my own Bible. He's like read this three chapters by next week. Like it was, they didn't treat us like kids.

Speaker 1: 1:34:52

They were like you, were like Bible college.

Speaker 5: 1:34:54

It was Bible college in a way.

Speaker 4: 1:34:56

Um and he's, he was drilling us and and we had to have certain scriptures memorized.

Speaker 1: 1:35:00

That's so good and.

Speaker 4: 1:35:01

I ate it up. I loved it Um mostly cause I believed that they cared about me. Yes, but there wasn't a challenge that I was like oh, I can't do that, I'm only 15 or I can't do that, I'm not, because they had already put so much belief in my, my own mind, about what they thought I could do that I was just like I can do it.

Speaker 2: 1:35:22

That's so good.

Speaker 4: 1:35:24

And so I was doing stuff, I was reading, and again words reading another skill set that I didn't really know was a skill set I thought it came to everybody like that um that I had. So I'm, I'm in my element. Music is strong, words and reading are strong. I'm getting deeper in the word and all of a sudden, um, at night I'm having like night terrors and I don't know, I don't have that word for it. I'm going to sleep and I'm literally doing battle, um physical battle, in my dreams yeah um, I'm, I'm interacting.

Speaker 4: 1:35:58

One time I I saw a demonic figure and showed up in my dream and was saying words in ancient hebrew, and the only reason I know it was ancient hebrews because, um, the holy spirit. Later he was like that was Hebrew and I was like, okay, thank you, because I don't know what that was. But he was saying words to me and in my dream I'm just like I don't know what's going on, but I knew it was wrong. In my dream I am speaking in a prayer language at this thing and it's recoiling, it's getting upset and it's yelling at me and I'm saying Jesus, all I know to do is to say Jesus. And then I go to say something like leave me alone or go away. And it's coming out in prayer language, but I don't have my prayer language yet and so I'm it's.

Speaker 4: 1:36:42

It was crazy stuff and I would wake up like in a cold sweat and terrified and feeling unsafe in my room and I'm in middle school guys so I'm running to my parents bedroom and getting in the bed with my mom and I'm like I don't know and mom's praying over me and they don't know what to do necessarily.

Speaker 1: 1:36:59

I feel like you were speaking Hebrew back to them.

Speaker 4: 1:37:01

Probably.

Speaker 1: 1:37:02

I believe that's what you were.

Speaker 4: 1:37:03

I don't know. I assumed it was a prayer language, the.

Speaker 1: 1:37:05

Lord didn't say it was that it could have been.

Speaker 4: 1:37:08

But I've had moments like that. I had other moments where I was awake, I was at the bus stop and saw stuff.

Speaker 1: 1:37:17

This won't leave me.

Speaker 4: 1:37:18

Okay.

Speaker 1: 1:37:19

How could you respond to the language you didn't understand unless, in your dream, you could understand what he was saying and respond in the same language? You know what I mean.

Speaker 4: 1:37:27

I knew what he was saying. I didn't know what he was saying.

Speaker 1: 1:37:30

I knew that what was coming out of his mouth was curses. You were hearing it and responding in the same language, possibly? I think so. Yeah, I believe that's what.

Speaker 4: 1:37:41

Dude, I have no idea Like.

Speaker 2: 1:37:43

Speak Hebrew Warfare girl. It was warfare yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:37:47

It's real. All I knew was what he was saying. I needed to reject it. That was the only thing that was clear in my dream.

Speaker 1: 1:37:53

It's like don't accept that the sense of it.

Speaker 4: 1:37:55

The sense of that it was not of God. He was not of. It was not of God. I won't say he you know what it looked like oh yeah, it'd be hard to explain, but yeah, it was grotesque yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:38:06

It was evil.

Speaker 4: 1:38:15

It. That's, that is one of the blessings of most of my dreams. There is usually almost always it's not confusing if I'm dealing with something demonic or or something that has been sent from the lord like a messenger of the lord there there's usually it's easy for me to be like, okay, this is from hell, this is not you know um but uh, yeah, I.

Speaker 4: 1:38:31

So there's this other gift of seeing in the spirit that I didn't know I had and hadn't really been introduced to as a possibility. Like when people talk to kids about gifts, seeing in the spirit is not something that usually comes up. It's like, oh God gave you the gift of you know craftsmanship, or apostle or teaching.

Speaker 4: 1:38:53

You know all these nice stuff. I'm having dreams that are terrifying when you don't have a context to put them in and no one's really telling you like this is a spiritual gift. Daniel had this gift, prophets of the Bible had this, you know. So I'm struggling with the fact that I know these stories of Daniel and other prophets and other people who could see things in the spirit, but you don't hear about people today telling you necessarily what they saw in the spirit and that it's a gift, and so I started praying for God to take it away.

Speaker 1: 1:39:28

So let me ask you this, because the reality is is that we we had this conversation before we even started about how it's a daily battle. It is yeah, and I think a lot of times we paint Christianity as this nice fairy tale of good dreams and purpose and God's plan for our lives, but in reality there's the other side of it, which is demonic.

Speaker 1: 1:39:51

Yeah, there's the other side of it, which is demonic principalities, rulers of wickedness that are just waiting for opportunities to pounce on us Active yes, and so when someone a young kid who's raised up in church, thinks that church is just all good and fun and experiences something like that, they don't know how to respond right and and to be clear, I knew about darkness yeah I knew my parents yeah, they were teaching you ever since you were little, yeah so my parents did take the approach of church is a vitamin

Speaker 4: 1:40:25

yeah, it is not the meal, yeah and, and we do the same thing at home. Church is a vitamin it is a necessary addition to the meal you are already eating at home, that's good. You know. And so they fed me, they taught me. We talked about the word on the table. I had read things. I knew spiritual warfare was real. I had just never been thrust into the middle of it.

Speaker 2: 1:40:47

It's different when you experience it Right.

Speaker 4: 1:40:50

And I didn't have the context, for you know you hear about the enemy will attack you yeah and the enemy is like a roaring lion and the enemy comes to steal, kill and destroy. Yeah, how there's no context for, and that could happen in your sleep, yeah, yeah, you know, like there's just no, there's, and I don't think, as a parent, you necessarily expect that, unless it's happened to you, I think it's different for me coming from darkness to light. It might be.

Speaker 1: 1:41:19

I'm very aware of what is out there.

Speaker 4: 1:41:23

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:41:23

And that that side of the spiritual realm is very real.

Speaker 4: 1:41:27

Right.

Speaker 1: 1:41:28

You know what I mean. Right and so when I talk about Christianity and I talk about darkness, I'm aware of what I'm talking about. I'm not. There's no downplaying it. It's very real.

Speaker 2: 1:41:40

Yeah, I've looked at guys in the eyes that literally had nothing but evil.

Speaker 1: 1:41:45

I've seen people transform from a person into a demonic present right in front of me with supernatural strength that you can't control, right that you almost beat to a bloody pulp and they laugh at you and say I'm in the flesh. Now what are you gonna do?

Speaker 4: 1:42:01

yes, holy crap and and that that was, and I think that was the confusing part, for it be for me, because my, my uncles are pastors on my dad's side. My grandfather was a pastor on his side, so I had seen some things in church.

Speaker 1: 1:42:15

I had seen people manifest.

Speaker 4: 1:42:18

But it was always. I was never expected to do anything. I'll put it like that I'm always the kid in this situation. You see, somebody start doing weird stuff.

Speaker 2: 1:42:30

The adults got it. The adults got it.

Speaker 4: 1:42:32

And as they should, they've been walking with god much longer than me. They know what to do but there was this transition happening in my early teens where I I didn't realize it, but I was no longer on the sideline yeah I am now on the front line, yeah and um and I didn't put it together until I became an adult.

Speaker 4: 1:42:52

But I, the same little girl, praying, faith, believing I'm, I'm not playing. I brought my first friend in California. I was about eight, brought him to Christ with a little Bible with salty the singing song book on the cover. I brought my Bible out, put it on the back of his dad, had a jalopy in the yard, but like put it on the back of the car and I was like do you know who Jesus is? He was like I don't know, we're Catholic. I'm like you don't know who he is Come here, and that is not to be offensive.

Speaker 5: 1:43:22

That's what I thought at the time.

Speaker 4: 1:43:24

But, but, and so we prayed the prayer of faith, and I'm doing that, I'm doing that stuff, and so I don't realize the impact that I'm having on my friends. I'm going to a church that's empowering me in the word. I'm taking that to school and I'm talking to people in the locker room and in band class and I'm praying with kids, and so I don't know that I'm becoming a force to reckon with in the spiritual realm. And so what is the enemy? Enemy is going to clap back, of course.

Speaker 4: 1:43:50

Especially when you're at rest when I'm at rest. So now I'm afraid to go to sleep because awake and alert, you're powerful wow, he's awake and alert.

Speaker 1: 1:43:58

You're powerful and he has no control over you. While you're at rest and you're in your subconscious, he can come attack you and and what he's doing is attacking me.

Speaker 4: 1:44:07

I'm waking up, I'm feeling fear like to the bone for the first time, fear that I don't know what to do with, except that I am, you know, eighth grade and I'm getting in my mom and dad's bed curling up, crying because I'm afraid to be alone. But then, on top of that, don't understand why God is allowing it.

Speaker 3: 1:44:26

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:44:26

Because I know enough scripture at this point and I've walked. I have my own walk with God at this point where I'm I'm not just experiencing Jesus at church, I have my own prayer life and it usually would come out through journaling and I still have most of my journals but I would write and be like okay, lord, what's up? Why can't I sleep? Why are these demons showing up? I'm not calling on this. I'm not playing with Ouija boards, I'm not smoking, I'm not drinking, I'm not doing, I'm not playing with Ouija boards, I'm not smoking.

Speaker 5: 1:44:52

I'm not drinking.

Speaker 4: 1:44:52

I'm not inviting any of this stuff. I live in a Christian home. What's up Like? Where are you at and why are they picking on me? And now I have spiritual bullies, which is bringing up all these emotions of like you're letting the enemy kick my tail and you're supposed to be my.

Speaker 4: 1:45:11

God, and so either you take this or deals off, because I've been. I've been serving you, I've been loving you, I've been worshiping you, I've been bringing other people to you and I've been doing for the most part I mean, I'm not perfect, but for the most part I've been doing what I'm supposed to do. I'm a good kid and the enemy is showing up and he's still in my sleep. He's scaring me like crazy. And where are you at?

Speaker 3: 1:45:34

Wow.

Speaker 4: 1:45:35

And so as a kid, that was a tough place because my parents were going. We're going to trust God, we're going to pray and I'm like praying is not working. I'm having dreams nightly. I'm awake now as the years progressed. I'm at the bus stop and I'm waiting on the bus to come pick me up to take me to school. I'm in high school now and I can see across the street a demon standing across the street. I see him.

Speaker 3: 1:45:57

He sees me.

Speaker 4: 1:45:58

And I'm going shoot, I'm not asleep. This stuff is supposed to only happen when I'm asleep. I'm at the bus, and so now the bus is pulling up and it pulls up. I get on the bus, I sit down and I it pulls up. I get on the bus, I sit down and I look out the window where he was at. I don't see him anymore and I'm like okay, well, I guess it's gone and I'm feeling crazy.

Speaker 4: 1:46:15

Y'all I'm feeling crazy and then the bus starts to pull off. I look out the back window of the bus and it the demon is walking behind the bus, walking me to school. Almost like what it felt like and I knew it was demonic. It looked like a little boy, but I could tell this is not of, and so I'm just starting to see all over the place. I don't know what to do with it and I'm getting mad. That God's just, it seems in my mind at the time, God's just letting this happen.

Speaker 4: 1:46:43

And so I think, okay, well, there must be something wrong with me, there must be something I've done, because when you don't have a healthy explanation, you look at yourself. If you know God is holy and you know he's a perfect, loving, caring God which I didn't know and I know that, okay, he doesn't do things to scare his kids, he doesn't. So I must have invited this. And so now I'm examining myself, I'm repenting for things, stupid stuff.

Speaker 1: 1:47:09

Like I lied to mom the other day.

Speaker 4: 1:47:18

I'm thinking now I've opened the door to the enemy and the enemy's kind of got me where he wants me because he's got more influence now.

Speaker 1: 1:47:22

In my thinking, than the Lord does, because I'm I'm trying to step around him instead of following the.

Speaker 4: 1:47:25

Lord and so, um, I, I was like okay, I, I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do, so I'm trying to ignore it. It's getting more intense and I just get exasperated and I'm going I can't do this anymore.

Speaker 1: 1:47:39

It was a sign to you. It was a sign to you Definitely.

Speaker 4: 1:47:43

So my faith is still there, my belief in God is still there, but my fire is. It's almost like I'm putting it out Cause I'm just like if, if all of this fire for God is bringing all of this attention, then we gonna fix. I'm gonna fix it myself. Cause the Lord is not moving fast enough for me, and so um.

Speaker 5: 1:48:05

How old are you?

Speaker 1: 1:48:07

A teenager 15?.

Speaker 4: 1:48:08

This is the years of like seventh, eighth, ninth grade.

Speaker 2: 1:48:12

Okay, 13, 12, 11.

Speaker 4: 1:48:14

at most, 15th, young 12 yeah and and I'm I'm somewhat cerebral and internal. I'm an internal processor a little bit. I process out loud sometimes but I'll think through things first. So I'm not really processing well because I'm not clearly talking with my parents and I'm not bringing all of my frustration to them.

Speaker 4: 1:48:36

I'm telling them about my dreams, but I'm not really telling them how it's affecting me daily. Yeah, um, so they don't know a whole lot and um, and I'm not displaying a lot like people are out, because I don't want people think I'm crazy and I'm seeing stuff and so, um, I started pulling back, I started hanging out with kids I wasn't hanging out with before and I'm like I'm just going to blend, I'm just going to blend in, I'm going to chill and.

Speaker 3: 1:49:02

I started compromising.

Speaker 4: 1:49:03

To be honest, that's when I oh, and one of the other things I was doing I was going to public school all the way up until eighth grade. Then, in ninth grade I I decided I told my mom I wanted to go to my church's school. They had their own school. It was a private Christian school called American Heritage Academy, and I was like mom, I want to go to that school. I'm thinking somehow this warfare is tied to the fact that I'm in a public school right Like.

Speaker 4: 1:49:29

I'm just trying to figure it out and they kind of agreed that I might need a different environment. I had some friends at the time that weren't the best people to be around. They weren't influencing me, yet I say that on purpose. So they switched me over to AHA, and that was a bad move. Because it's supposed to be a Christian school. It is a Christian school, except for that. Because it's supposed to be a christian school, it is a christian school.

Speaker 4: 1:49:55

Except for that, because it's a christian school every parent that had a bad kid that got kicked out of every other school is sending their kid to the christian school. So I've been dropped in the deep end of the pool now and I don't know. I'm going to church with all these kids.

Speaker 4: 1:50:12

I don't really know their private life like that and so now I'm going to school with them and I'm getting introduced to music that I had never really listened to before. That's talking about stuff I don't really need to know, but I have a very vivid imagination and the visuals to go with it, because I saw the soap opera all those years back. And so the enemy is just used at all.

Speaker 4: 1:50:35

He's layering upon layering in my life and because it's coming from people, I don't expect to be ungodly, it's like getting past all the firewalls, Cause I'm like, oh, you're the pastor's kid. No, like you want to watch this video. Like well, yeah, and at first and at other schools I would be like what is it? What are you about to show? Me what is it about? What's it rated? But, because I'm at this Christian school and I'm expecting the pastor's kids to have some boundaries.

Speaker 1: 1:51:00

You're thinking everything's already filtered?

Speaker 4: 1:51:01

Yeah, and so somewhere between my eighth grade year and my ninth grade year, my braces came off. I'm becoming more of a woman. My mom started letting me straighten my hair, I can wear a little bit of makeup, and so I had this kind of glow up moment. And now, all of a sudden, boys are on my radar and they're just like how old are you? Oh, you're only 15. Well, okay and just, and, and I don't know what to. I don't know what to do with all this attention. I was like the ugly duckling. Before nobody really noticed me and I was kind of okay with that. But now I've got this male attention that I'm, I'm starting to feel good about on top of the music and the visuals, and so I find myself falling into struggle, and I'm struggling, struggling with sexual sin, but not with another person. So I'm if you are playing this and there are children who would know my voice, because I do serve a large population- of children at our church pause, unless you want to have conversations about things with your kids.

Speaker 4: 1:52:09

But anyway, I don't. I don't care who knows, but parents, you may not want to open the door yet.

Speaker 2: 1:52:14

It's real.

Speaker 4: 1:52:15

And so I'm struggling with masturbation.

Speaker 3: 1:52:17

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:52:18

Because the Bible is real.

Speaker 1: 1:52:23

Don't awaken things before it's time and for women.

Speaker 4: 1:52:25

Awakening doesn't necessarily mean intercourse with another man.

Speaker 3: 1:52:29

Yeah, it's real, it's our mind, it's a mind game.

Speaker 4: 1:52:32

Oh yeah, hello, and so I'm struggling with masturbation. I don't actually know that's what it's called Like I thought only boys could do that because that was a context in which my brain received the information when I learned about it. And so, but I can feel that this isn't pleasing to the Lord Like. I sense that it's doing something in my relationship with him and my ability to hear him, and so I know I'm slightly off, but because I can't find the scripture that says you shouldn't masturbate, I'm like, well, I'm not actually sinning.

Speaker 2: 1:53:01

You know, like man, the justification, the justification's in there. I don't know about that addictive behavior.

Speaker 4: 1:53:08

So there's addictive behavior patterns in my bloodline. I don't understand the dopamine responses and all of that and so I get to the point where I do figure out like, oh, this isn't right, I need to stop this. And it's not so easy, yeah, and so um we have a group for that and celebrate recovery.

Speaker 2: 1:53:26

Yes, we do yes, we do the, the science behind it.

Speaker 4: 1:53:30

Pastor ashley, I don't know if you know this or not. I may not. It's crazy.

Speaker 1: 1:53:35

It's equivalent to heroin.

Speaker 2: 1:53:36

Yeah, that is the dopamine shots you get the dopamine and everything that's firing off in your brain.

Speaker 4: 1:53:43

That's stupid and unfair.

Speaker 2: 1:53:45

The pleasure is equivalent to heroin. It's like you're getting high on dope.

Speaker 1: 1:53:49

So to quit. That is like kicking heroin.

Speaker 2: 1:53:51

Guys. It's why it's so hard to stop. And guys, I am so young Jesus, I'm so young, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:53:58

And so and I'm also really broken about it- yeah. Because now I can sense that something's got me.

Speaker 2: 1:54:03

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:54:04

That I.

Speaker 2: 1:54:05

Had never had you before.

Speaker 4: 1:54:07

Never had me before. Yeah, that I didn't know was wrong until it already had me, and so now I'm angry at God because I'm like you, I needed you before.

Speaker 5: 1:54:20

Can I point something out, yeah?

Speaker 1: 1:54:23

This is how slick the enemy is. He didn't have to do nothing to you but show himself. I know he didn't have to tell you nothing, he didn't have to say nothing, he didn't have to do anything but send one of his dominions in your peripheral vision, and just his presence caused a veer in your path man, it did and it's so true.

Speaker 4: 1:54:50

I think the reason that worked.

Speaker 1: 1:54:52

Because you said you saw the demon.

Speaker 4: 1:54:54

I did.

Speaker 1: 1:54:54

And now, here we are at this point.

Speaker 4: 1:54:58

I will say it was a little bit harder than him just showing himself. I had seen.

Speaker 1: 1:55:03

But it was the fear, it was the dreams, it was his presence.

Speaker 4: 1:55:07

It was the intimacy of how he revealed himself. Because I had seen people be delivered from demons in church. How he revealed himself, because I had seen people be delivered from demons in church. I had I had seen. I had seen enough of the enemy that he had to. He had to get me in a very intimate in my room asleep.

Speaker 2: 1:55:23

It doesn't get more intimate than that and so he had to.

Speaker 4: 1:55:26

really, you're most vulnerable he had to get me on a in a space where I felt like the only person who could help me was God. And because help wasn't coming quick enough. That's what made me veer yeah. Because I can't call my mom asleep.

Speaker 3: 1:55:44

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:55:45

You know I have to wake up for that.

Speaker 4: 1:55:47

I can't, and so really, what he did to give to take a little credit away from him. He got me in. The only place left was where I thought I was most alone and unfortunately, he had me thinking he had access to me there. And so for me it's like, if you're going to deliver this man at the altar who's screaming in voices that are not natural, and you've saved it, and I've seen the power of God save him why won't you show up and fight for me in my sleep? And so, as a Christian kid, knowing all that I knew and exposed to all that I was exposed to, to have the Lord seeming like he wasn't showing up for me?

Speaker 5: 1:56:32

there was the trap.

Speaker 4: 1:56:32

That was actually the trap. It wasn't showing up for me. There was the trap. That was actually the trap. It wasn't seeing the demon, it was the fact that God's response seemed slow, and I didn't understand a slow God. God gave me my sister.

Speaker 1: 1:56:43

Or that in your most vulnerable moment, he wasn't there to protect you Right.

Speaker 4: 1:56:47

And that was the way the enemy got me. He's like why isn't God, God's all powerful and you?

Speaker 2: 1:56:52

know he's got power. You've seen him. He ain't hearing you now.

Speaker 4: 1:56:55

He's not, he's not coming, he's nowhere is he yet wow and I don't know how to answer that there's no scripture there, you know like okay, yes, I will. I'll be there, for I'll be your fortress, I'll be your shield. I will deliver you from your enemies.

Speaker 4: 1:57:07

Okay, it's been years, yeah where you at and so and then so what your faith does at that point if you don't have the right accountability and I wasn't talking- I will say that over and over again. I was not talking so you don't have the right people around you. You don't have enough people ahead of you in faith that can tell you god is not slow, yeah, but he does not come on your timeline yep I didn't have that depth of faith. I didn't have that depth of faith. I didn't have the warriors.

Speaker 4: 1:57:35

That have fought with stuff like this before me in this fight with me, so I was an easy pick.

Speaker 1: 1:57:41

I was the little gazelle on the side of the herd that was kind of veering off, because I'm all in my own head, and that's the worst place to be if you're in a battle with the enemy.

Speaker 2: 1:57:50

Get out of your head, like get out, talk to somebody. Yes, talk to somebody.

Speaker 4: 1:57:55

So all of that's happening. And now I'm in the school. They've introduced me to different music, to different things. I want to be Aaliyah, like the singer.

Speaker 5: 1:58:04

Aaliyah.

Speaker 4: 1:58:04

Aaliyah. I actually asked my parents if I could dress up like her for Halloween. Oh God, and and um how they say what they say they were. They were. I know they had to, now that I'm a parent. They had to be freaking out inside, but they were so cool and my mom was like, well, what do you like about her? And I was like I like her style. And she was like, okay, what else? And I was like, well, she's cool.

Speaker 4: 1:58:26

You know, I don't have the words I'm a kid and then my dad was like well, how did you even find out about this? And all I have the cd. And they were like put it in and I was like are you for real?

Speaker 4: 1:58:36

and they're like yeah, put it in, we want to hear what you like. And so they're like put it on your favorite song. And so I put in the cd. I put on my favorite song, four page letter um at the time favorite song. And they start they're listening and then they go pause it. And they pause it now what'd she just say to him? And I was like, well, she's telling him she wants to see him. And my dad was like for what? And I was like, because she likes him, what does she like about him? And I was like I don't know. He said listen again, rewind, play. And they broke down the words to that song.

Speaker 4: 1:59:14

And they broke it down to me and they were like, so why?

Speaker 1: 1:59:16

do you want to dress like her again? And I was like forget it.

Speaker 5: 1:59:17

I know what you're doing. My parents are beasts.

Speaker 4: 1:59:21

But they did not let me get away with anything. And because I'm a words kid, they knew they could go there with me. I hadn't quite listened to the words. I was listening to them and I told them I like the music.

Speaker 2: 1:59:30

I like the beat. I was listening to them and I told them I like the music.

Speaker 4: 1:59:32

I just like the beat. I like the beat. Yes, and my mom was like you like the beat. But the words are going into your spirit and so they made me separate the two early and I was never able to unlearn that. Thanks mom, thanks dad.

Speaker 1: 1:59:49

So there's a lot of songs that I can't. I have to ask this question just because I think someone might need to hear this. I have to ask this question just because I think someone might need to hear this Of course. Do you think there was a correlation to the time you started listening to that kind of music, to when you started the attack, yeah, oh, the attack.

Speaker 4: 2:00:03

Or the masturbation, the masturbation, totally, okay. Because now you're hearing lyrics that you may not see that way, but they're being spoken, irrigate to your spirit and to your soul, and now you're more so my imagination. Yeah, I am, I am. I'm now on the other side of puberty yeah right, so there are men are attractive.

Speaker 1: 2:00:23

All these different boys are good looking. They're noticing me now. You're hearing these songs about men and yeah and I'm and i'm'm.

Speaker 4: 2:00:32

I'm a woman and most women, I would say most women. This would apply we imagination is powerful, and so, and that's why, the romance novels work.

Speaker 3: 2:00:42

That's why the rom-coms work.

Speaker 4: 2:00:43

That's like you know, we are imagining the perfect, and so I'm in this space where, mentally I'm, I'm in different zones of my imagination and it's stirring things in me that are leading me to actions that eventually I figured out like whoa, I need you know. This is a, this is a runaway train. But, I didn't quite understand at the time what was going on. And I didn't quite understand the impact and the power.

Speaker 1: 2:01:08

Do you think there's a correlation to the music and the timing of that?

Speaker 4: 2:01:11

Of course, or is it?

Speaker 1: 2:01:12

just everything all at once, kind of playing together.

Speaker 4: 2:01:14

I think some of it was a perfect storm.

Speaker 1: 2:01:16

I just want to know, because there might be a mom who's listening, who has daughters listening to that stuff, and they might want to know that there's more going on there than just songs. Oh, there's more going on there than just songs.

Speaker 4: 2:01:25

Definitely.

Speaker 5: 2:01:25

Oh yeah, there's more.

Speaker 4: 2:01:27

So, if there's a mom wondering should I be? I would say be very vigilant be, very concerned. Not that your kid will do what I did, but the Bible does say there is power and death, or there's the power. Of life and death are in our tongue. I don't think that's restricted to just the words you come up with in your own mind. I think what you're singing the words, you hear what you're hearing what you're dwelling on in your mind.

Speaker 4: 2:01:56

I mean, the scripture also says that. You know, think on things that are lovely, that are true that are excellent, that are good report worthy of praise. There's a reason why it says think on these things. It doesn't just say like one day, think about them, it's about them, it's like it's a constant thing. Like I'm supposed to let my mind dwell, yeah, on that stuff.

Speaker 4: 2:02:21

Yeah, because I really do see, I really do believe what you let your mind dwell on um will produce fruit in your soul and so if, if you got kids that are listening to songs that are you know if they wouldn't talk like that to anybody in real life or they don't want you to hear the song like these are warning signs that I was um, this was the time when I was in I had headphones, were kind of a new thing. It was like nineties or late nineties, early two thousands and you could get the uh, the Walkman with the headphones. Um, be willing to take the headphones off your kids Parents, just grab those headphones and put them on.

Speaker 4: 2:02:55

Don't let them stop the CD like, whatever it is, or whatever the iPod now, or phone, whatever they're listening to. If they're getting weird about you hearing their music, something's happening. They may not know, but something's going on. I mean just like a movie. If you walk into the room and your son closes his computer because he doesn't want you to see what he's watching there's something going on. You know like it's, so I, but for me, to be fair, music was a gift yeah and music tied to my I.

Speaker 4: 2:03:23

I wrote music, I wrote poetry for fun, you know I, and so it makes sense that it would have a powerful impact on me because, this was an avenue that I enjoyed, and now I'm listening to music. I haven't heard of army R and B.

Speaker 1: 2:03:38

Music was big during this time you ever looked up the lyrics of Barry Manilow's.

Speaker 4: 2:03:42

I wrote the song and looked up the lyrics.

Speaker 1: 2:03:44

No, look up the lyrics to Barry Manilow's.

Speaker 4: 2:03:46

I wrote the song I will why.

Speaker 1: 2:03:52

He talks about. The lyrics go something like this I was around before the beginning of time. Oh that one. I wrote the songs.

Speaker 4: 2:04:00

Yeah, oh, I know who was the author of music.

Speaker 1: 2:04:03

But literally this song called I Write the Songs.

Speaker 2: 2:04:06

Literally, people think that the devil took Barry Manilow and used him to write that song.

Speaker 4: 2:04:11

I don't doubt it. Yeah, it's crazy. I mean I don't know if he did he talks about, but listen to the lyrics.

Speaker 2: 2:04:15

Yeah, listen to the lyrics. The lyrics are very clear.

Speaker 1: 2:04:17

It's a trip On what's being said, and that's the point. I'm trying to get to is we got parents who don't think oh, it's just a song. You know what I If you listen to the words that are being spoken over your kids. I mean, you wouldn't tell your kids those things. Why are you going to let somebody who doesn't know your kids speak those things over your kids? You know what?

Speaker 4: 2:04:39

I mean Well, and I've told my children this, and I'm not a weirdo.

Speaker 1: 2:04:41

I don't care what you say. Yeah, no.

Speaker 4: 2:04:44

I've told my children this and I'll continue to tell them as they grow.

Speaker 2: 2:04:48

He's not a weirdo. I live with him. Leave him alone.

Speaker 1: 2:04:54

I'm a weirdo for Jesus.

Speaker 2: 2:04:55

Jesus, so am I, but I know the power of words there's power in your words, bud you know what I mean.

Speaker 4: 2:05:02

There's power in your words, because God gave us that authority in the earth right, but then also the enemy, lucifer. We're going to go back to his original design. When he was an angel in heaven. As Lucifer, he was an instrument, and so, if you think about the fact that instruments speak, that was his gift. It was his gift. But if Pastor James or somebody was in here playing the guitar and all you need is a skilled person and an instrument, whether it's vocally or guitar, you can change the atmosphere in a room just for music just and it doesn't need words.

Speaker 4: 2:05:38

No, not necessarily. And so he, lucifer was an instrument, he, he was built to create atmospheres which makes total sense for me, why I you know, I'm being introduced to R&B music. I'm being like I'm listening and I don't think Brandy is necessarily tied into this, but I'm listening to Brandy. I'm listening to Aaliyah, I'm listening to like 3LW and Destiny's Child, and then you know you have Jagged Edge and I'm like all these.

Speaker 2: 2:06:08

Love them 112.

Speaker 4: 2:06:12

I'm married now, so I'm just saying I'm listening to him with my man, but as a kid, when all these concepts are new and these films Just slayed Eddie. If you're listening and you're not watching, eddie just got slayed. It's real, but as a kid, it was just out of season. Honestly like I'm not condemning these artists yeah for what they wrote.

Speaker 4: 2:06:40

Yeah, that, that, that is between them and the lord and their gift, of course, and but it was out of season for me, it was not the time for me, and and the enemy knew that to an extent I knew it too. Too, I have responsibility in this, my parents were talking to me about what I should and should not be listening to. I was curious.

Speaker 2: 2:06:58

You can't blame it all on the devil. No, I was curious. Power in our choices?

Speaker 4: 2:07:01

I like the sound, I like the music. I call myself being a musician, exposing myself to other sounds, so I could be, more well-rounded. You know, like all this stuff grounded, you know, like all this stuff um, and yeah it, it had an effect on me mentally. Um, so I did, I struggled with masturbation for a while, for a long while, um, and it makes sense now when you mentioned the heroin thing I didn't know it was that strong of a time, but I literally for years that dopamine fix yeah yeah, I would cry out to god, um, but so, but the lord in his grace.

Speaker 4: 2:07:36

Yeah, I would cry out to god, um, but so, but the lord in his grace. In all of this, we had a youth service um my youth group was called.

Speaker 2: 2:07:39

Uh, you're still at covenant still a covenant.

Speaker 4: 2:07:41

My youth group was called neotropolis, which means like new city which basically, they were telling us like you are the next generation you are the church metamorphosis.

Speaker 2: 2:07:49

What was the next? What did you just say? Neotropolis, neotropolis. Here's the thing these are different.

Speaker 4: 2:07:54

What was that movie? I forgot His name was Neo, the character.

Speaker 2: 2:07:57

Matrix.

Speaker 4: 2:07:58

Matrix was.

Speaker 2: 2:07:59

Oh, it was huge, so that was part of the feel when you get.

Speaker 4: 2:08:03

But so you know we're Neotropolis. We went by Neo for short that was the name of our youth group and had a worship night. And here I am on the worship team but now feeling 100% unqualified because I'm struggling with an internal sin that I can't tell anybody about because I don't know. I know better.

Speaker 2: 2:08:21

I'm not supposed to be doing this.

Speaker 4: 2:08:22

I'm not supposed to struggle. I grew up in church, I knew better. Now the enemy's got me in this pattern of thinking. Shame.

Speaker 5: 2:08:32

Now I've got to hide it from people. If you tell them you'll never, Now the enemy's got me in this pattern of thinking.

Speaker 4: 2:08:34

Shame. Now I've got to hide it from people. Yeah, I've got to hide it. Shame If you tell them you'll never be able to lead worship again for the rest of your life. You know all of this stuff and I'm, you know, ninth grade. Dang and so I'm dealing with stuff that I don't know what to do with.

Speaker 2: 2:08:47

Because part of it is not talking. I'm not talking, I'm not talking.

Speaker 4: 2:08:56

Yeah, you said it, but what high school kid is volunteering their weaknesses you know really not to excuse it, but I am in the season where most kids quit talking and so I'm doing that. Um, I'm struggling internally.

Speaker 4: 2:09:06

I'm praying that god will just heal me like just kind of take it away, deliver me whatever you, whatever you got to do and we have this worship night at the Neo and I'm supposed to be singing but out of nowhere, my pastor, pastor Joel, he just looks at me, he goes. You know what? I'm going to? Let you just worship tonight. And I was just like, of course that goes in my ear through the lens of shame and I'm like dang, there's something going on with you.

Speaker 5: 2:09:37

I'm ear through the lens of shame, oh yeah, and I'm like dang, there's something going on with you.

Speaker 4: 2:09:40

Yeah, I'm gonna give you the night off. He can see it. And so what do you do?

Speaker 4: 2:09:42

naturally, no, I'm good, I'm good, I'm good, I'm good like, and I'm like I'm fine, I'm fine, he's like no, no, no, I feel like the lord is saying just to let you worship tonight. And I'm going, oh. And so I'm still angry at God because I'm like now you're taking away the only thing I actually like to do besides school, you know. And so I'm like fine, and I'm feeling a little salty, which means I really did need to sit down, honestly, because I was getting a little too weird about I'm being used you know, and so he lets me sit and the rest of the team is up there and I'm feeling.

Speaker 4: 2:10:14

I'm in my feelings because I'm like I should be up there, but something happens. That night with the Holy Spirit comes just in a different way. And, by the way, our youth group was about 250 kids strong.

Speaker 3: 2:10:26

Holy Lord, so wow.

Speaker 1: 2:10:29

There's a lot of people and the youth group was.

Speaker 4: 2:10:32

There was something happening in those months where God was showing up on our Wednesday nights, where the parents stopped going to Wednesday night service in at the main church and they started coming to our services and staying to our service. Well, you got 250 kids that realize their parents are finding God in the room when their parents didn't find God before you know, because some kids were like you guys when you were younger, you know, and their parents are coming to church and getting set free from stuff.

Speaker 4: 2:10:58

And so the kids, now us the teenagers, we're like go get mom dad, go get your friends and invite them to my youth group. Like we're not just bringing our friends, now we're bringing our friends' parents to our youth ministry.

Speaker 4: 2:11:13

And it's working Like the parents are coming back and so our pastor, pastor Mike Hayes. He's amazing. Well, I think he made the call. I'm assuming he made the call because he was the lead pastor, but basically he was like no more Wednesday night in the worship center. We're going to Neo. And so he took all the other parents that were coming to the main sanctuary service to hear him teach. He was like if you come on a Wednesday night, don't come to the main worship center.

Speaker 2: 2:11:38

We'll all be over there.

Speaker 4: 2:11:39

We're going to be across the street at the youth because we took an old movie theater, gutted it and turned it into our youth building because we were so big and so he's like we're gonna be across the street at the neo and if you're looking for me, I'm going to the neo that was our lead pastor and so that's great it was, but it was so empowering dang as youth, yeah we're like.

Speaker 4: 2:12:00

We're like god is using us come on and so we're not the church of tomorrow anymore in our heads. We're like the church of using us. And so we're not the church of tomorrow anymore in our heads.

Speaker 1: 2:12:06

We're like the church of right now because the parents are coming to our service.

Speaker 2: 2:12:10

That's great.

Speaker 4: 2:12:11

It was awesome. But at the same time, this particular night, the Lord showed up. It was this, this worship moment where his spirit just like like a cloud, like it was just hovering and people weren't. We weren't leaving worship, we're supposed to have a sermon and all that, but we weren't coming out of the worship journey and, um, I found myself just wrecked by god, like I can't. I can't really explain it, but I was just wrecked by god. So I got up, went to the front, laid on the floor face down where the stage or the altar. I laid there and I was just like I don't care anymore about anything else, I'm yours.

Speaker 1: 2:12:55

Like whatever you want.

Speaker 4: 2:12:56

And I just kept saying that over and over again and that was one of the first times I heard the Lord like audibly not audibly, it was more my spirit but like speak. And he was speaking to me, he was speaking things into me and he was letting me know, like I see, what's going on. He told me then I'm going to heal you, but he didn't tell me how long it was going to take.

Speaker 1: 2:13:18

I'll be honest with you.

Speaker 4: 2:13:21

But he was speaking and I'm having this moment where, like I know, I am hearing God. He was speaking and I'm having this moment where I'm like.

Speaker 5: 2:13:25

I know I am hearing God.

Speaker 4: 2:13:25

I don't know how I'm hearing him because the music in here is loud. Other people are crying out to God, but I know I'm hearing God and I had this really intimate moment with the Lord. I realized that when I got up it felt like maybe eight minutes on the floor for me.

Speaker 4: 2:13:43

I got up, most of that room was gone, Like the worship service had ended and we had like released and Pastor Joel had silently, quietly, like if you can go, if you need to go, if you want to stay, and my mom and my dad were like, well, we don't know when she's coming out, you know, but I had had this moment where time I lost track of time and I was like I know I was in the presence of God, because there's no way I would have laid down there for like 45 minutes. But I think that was about how long it was.

Speaker 4: 2:14:11

And so that refueled me in a way where I was like, okay, god is still seeing me, god is still loving me. I'm not completely right, but he's still here and I needed him to show up. I just needed him to be and that a beautiful revelation oh my goodness to know that even even in our

Speaker 5: 2:14:29

crap even in that he's right there you were going through.

Speaker 1: 2:14:33

Yeah, he still saw you. I'm still here. He told me he loved me.

Speaker 4: 2:14:37

I still love you yeah, and you I'll never forget he was like you're still my girl, yeah I love that and I was like oh, okay, thanks I'm gonna be okay you know, like I didn't know how, but I needed that, and so that, um, that was very much needed, because from there, this is high school.

Speaker 2: 2:14:56

This is still ninth grade.

Speaker 4: 2:14:57

Ninth grade so I um in ninth grade is kind of ending. At this point I'm telling my parents you gotta get me out of the school, man they're like give me back to the public school.

Speaker 4: 2:15:06

Gotta get me out of this school like I know, it's my church's school and god's doing big things at my church, but it's not happening monday through friday and my parents agreed that, um I had been, I was able to go to school on scholarship and my scholarship was only for one year and they were like we don't have the money to send you back next year and we're so glad you don't want to go because you're not, and so I wound up back at Frisco.

Speaker 4: 2:15:27

Um, so I'm back with kids that I've gone to middle school with, and uh, I'm back there and um, but I've had a. You know, I've changed in that ninth grade year, so I've come back and same thing. The boys are like who's that? Yeah and I'm like I know you, like I their names, I'm like I went to school with you for like four years. What do you mean? Who is that? And they're like Ashley, okay, and I'm like oh God. Like it's happening here too, and I'm not tooting my own horn, guys.

Speaker 5: 2:15:53

It's just.

Speaker 4: 2:15:54

I'm not I promise. There were plenty of boys that didn't know before and all of that um. I'm running track, play basketball and play volleyball so I yeah, I did all three um through middle school and through high school. Nice, so, um, to be honest, be honest, volleyball and basketball were just for me. I enjoyed them, but they were to stay in shape.

Speaker 3: 2:16:30

Track was my. Thing.

Speaker 4: 2:16:31

Really yeah Runner huh, oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:16:35

Which one's your little one? Havala, havala, she's taking up that stuff. Totally we can't wait, Because Troy did track too and so we were like, oh yes, let's go.

Speaker 3: 2:16:46

Let's go.

Speaker 5: 2:16:49

We can't wait to get to some track meets and watch this girl run.

Speaker 4: 2:16:54

I wish you'd stop running in my house, though, but yeah, I did all three sports. I loved track.

Speaker 5: 2:17:04

I loved the team feel.

Speaker 4: 2:17:07

Went to district, which is in state, a couple of times. I was actually pretty good for being such a short person. I ran um the four, the four by four, yeah, and I did a lot of the relays. Some of the relays I should not have been able to do Cause I was so short. I'm running against girls that are like five, seven, Cause you know you want to get seniors and stuff.

Speaker 4: 2:17:21

And they're looking at me. I'm like five, two. And they're looking at me. I'm like 5'2". And they're just like, oh, I'm going to eat you for breakfast. And I'm like, okay, yeah, wait for the last curve.

Speaker 5: 2:17:28

I got a kick For some reason.

Speaker 4: 2:17:31

I had figured out how to make that work for me and my coaches are like do it? I did long jump and triple jump too. I wasn't as good at that, but yeah. So I'm living my best life, I. But yeah. So I'm at high, I'm living my best life. I'm going to school, high school, and there's this girl named riva that I didn't know before riva riva, because we're in the south, so names are fun a little different, a little different.

Speaker 1: 2:17:54

Not reba like reba mcintyre, but with the v.

Speaker 4: 2:17:56

That's why I said and uh, she, she was an assignment. Uh, not a good one, oh, because I left AHA. So I got out from that particular and I'm in Frisco again and I know who not to hang out with at.

Speaker 4: 2:18:14

Frisco, because I went to middle school with these jokers and so I'm like I'm not going to be with these people and I'm trying to make new friends. And Riva just shows up out of nowhere, and mostly because her brother liked me, and so I think he was trying to use his sister to make a friendship so he could be around me, but I had no idea. Her brother was just not cute. It just was never going to happen and so. But she was cool and I was like, okay, I'll hang out with you.

Speaker 4: 2:18:41

And so we got to know each other. We rode on the same bus. She was in one of my classes and it was all great. And then she was like hey, break is coming up, you want to come over to my house, we can hang out? And I was like I don't really know if I can Like. My parents are real strict about that. I was like well let me ask them. And my mom was like she's cool people, like her brother's got a crush on me, but he's not going to be there.

Speaker 3: 2:19:10

So and mom, mom and dad were like well, we trust you and I, up until this point, had been trustworthy, a pretty good kid had my moments, but um and so they.

Speaker 4: 2:19:15

Let me go.

Speaker 1: 2:19:15

But you ain't ever done nothing that they were like. We can't trust you.

Speaker 4: 2:19:27

Not like that. No, I mean I come close once or twice, but not I backed off, I didn't want to lose the trust and so, um, they let me go over her house and her dad, I didn't know, was kind of he, he's like a jack-of-all-trades, but he had his own businesses and stuff.

Speaker 4: 2:19:35

but he had connections with the music industry, um, in dallas and I also didn't know at the time the music industry in dallas was was big like like this you could go big if you want, if you knew the right people and you knocked on the right doors hard and long enough, you can make big connections and get into the music industry. And so I'm hearing that, but I don't know what to do. I'm you know, I'm a, I'm a freshman sophomore in high school?

Speaker 1: 2:20:00

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 2:20:00

But I have a voice. I have a big voice and at this point a lot of people at school knew it. I had sang the national anthem for my school. I had been in, you know, other smaller competitions and people knew I could sing.

Speaker 3: 2:20:12

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 2:20:12

And so I'm at her house and we're hanging out and her dad comes home and she's like hey, dad, you need to be my friend and you know normal stuff. And then she was like she can sing and he was like prove it, you know.

Speaker 3: 2:20:29

And I was like no, yeah, no.

Speaker 4: 2:20:31

And I knew I was good. So I was like I'm not going to play this game. And he was like well then, you can't sing. And I was just like that's what you think.

Speaker 4: 2:20:38

But, I can sing. And Reva was like no, she can really really sing. And he was like well, prove it. And I and I said no a couple of times. Um, and then Reva was like for real, you're making me out to be a liar like just sing a little something. So for her I was like, okay, fine, and I sang a little. I can't remember what, but I sang something. His eyes got so big and he was like who are you signed with? And I was like what are you talking about? He was like you have a manager? And I was no, and he was like okay, can I record you? And that was the one thing I knew. My parents were like don't you ever like?

Speaker 3: 2:21:13

don't you know we don't do, we don't do recordings without your parents present, you don't sign nothing, yeah let your parents present.

Speaker 4: 2:21:19

And so I was like no, you can't, you may not record me. And he was just like okay, okay, he was like um, so I know this guy, I know this person and we can hook you up, we can get you in the studio.

Speaker 4: 2:21:29

And I was like I've been in the studio before, like you know, and he was trying to make me feel like he could do a lot for me yeah and I was just like no, no, no, no, I'm good, I just want to like hang out with your daughter like leave me alone, kind of thing, yeah well, I didn't realize. On the back end, after that hang hangout session ended, I went back to my life. We went back to our life. Her dad was like, get her back over here. Like he saw money.

Speaker 3: 2:21:49

Yeah, honestly yeah, of course.

Speaker 4: 2:21:51

And she, I didn't know, she liked me too, y'all.

Speaker 5: 2:21:56

Oh.

Speaker 4: 2:21:57

I did not have any radar for that.

Speaker 3: 2:21:59

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 2:21:59

And I had not experienced that personally. Yeah, and so she was like, come back over, come back over. And I was like I don't really want to, but you know you should come over my house sometime. And she's like I will. But my parents and I got the fact that our parents were strict. I realize now her parents didn't let her go places because she was living an alternative lifestyle and they weren't sure yeah, they weren't sure what was gonna come back home and so um, but they, they liked me I was a good girl and they knew I was a christian, and so I asked my mom, can I go back over?

Speaker 4: 2:22:31

and she was like sure you can go over to reva's house again. But this time I forgot to ask if her brother would be there or not. And so I'm there, we're hanging out, and I spent the night. This time the dad kept trying to get me to sing something yeah I got him off my back by saying I'll record it myself and I'll send it to you.

Speaker 4: 2:22:48

I totally lied but, I was like I don't know what else to do this is a grown man like I'm, and so he seemed to be okay with that. I spent the night at her house. She made a move on me oh Jesus, yeah and I was like oh, what is happening, you know? And I was like you are very confused and I don't, and and I knew you're very confused and she was like oh, I thought you knew and she was like everybody at school knows about me and I was like I don't, like I didn't know.

Speaker 5: 2:23:13

And she was like I thought you were the same way.

Speaker 4: 2:23:19

And I was like how could you? And then she was like, well, okay, cool, she's like I liked you, but I guess we can't be friends now. And I was like I don't know if that's going to be a good idea. I'm dealing with her the same way I would deal with a guy. I don't think you can be friends with me.

Speaker 3: 2:23:36

You're feeling things.

Speaker 4: 2:23:37

And so in all of this, her brother, who had not gone to sleep, who had been up all night watching movies, heard us like fussing and he knocked on the door and I was like I didn't know you were here. He's like I live here and I was just like, oh, okay, and I'm texting my parents like come get me now um and he was like what's going on?

Speaker 4: 2:23:57

and riva's like I thought she was into me, she's not. He was like, of course she's not, she's into me. And I was like shut the front door, like I am not into either one of you and how do I get out of?

Speaker 4: 2:24:10

this house it was the worst but um dad wanted, your boys kids wanted and I'm, and so I'm thinking I'm safe back at a school where I know people. And I'm not an AHA anymore and I'm like the whole world is going to hell in a handbasket man. I don't understand my life anymore. I don't understand how I got here.

Speaker 2: 2:24:34

Oh, that's why you said an assignment.

Speaker 4: 2:24:36

It was an assignment and me yes, and so I'm confused now and I'm thinking is it because I'm masturbating?

Speaker 2: 2:24:44

Is there something wrong with me?

Speaker 4: 2:24:45

Yeah, I'm thinking like maybe it's because I masturbate. She thought she picked up on something.

Speaker 1: 2:24:49

You know like my brain is because I'm a thinker and so my brain is trying to figure this out.

Speaker 4: 2:24:53

There's nothing to figure out, it's sin why?

Speaker 5: 2:24:54

did this happen. It's brokenness, it's sin.

Speaker 4: 2:24:57

But I'm thinking I did something and so of course my mom picks me up and she's like, how's it, how'd it go? And I'm like, oh, okay oh, you're gonna talk again I didn't really talk about it, oh, no my mom's probably gonna find out when she hears this this is great.

Speaker 2: 2:25:12

It won't be the first time, and I was just like yeah, we're fine, we're, everything's fine.

Speaker 4: 2:25:17

Nobody crossed any real physical boundaries. They all. Nothing actually happened so I know her brother did try to go further than she did, but I knew how to check a boy because they're very sensitive in one area and so that ended that and we were good, so this was all on the side. Now I'm freaked out completely about.

Speaker 2: 2:25:39

Meeting new people and going over to new places.

Speaker 4: 2:25:43

Oh, I'm not witnessing to anybody anymore, because that was my intention with Reva Wow. And so I'm like I'm done. I'm done with bringing people in close. I'm done with I'm just. My community is going to be my family. Because, I don't know how to navigate all of this weirdness, who can I?

Speaker 3: 2:26:00

trust. Now, yeah, who can I trust?

Speaker 4: 2:26:02

I'm not sure I can trust Christians, because they've been problematic since the beginning, and that's real people in the world. I don't know if I can help y'all because you know like I'm, just like we need jesus but maybe I'm gonna pray for you. So I did that whole christian thing like I'll pray for you um and that's okay yeah, boundaries are okay.

Speaker 2: 2:26:21

Sometimes that's okay, sometimes it is.

Speaker 4: 2:26:22

But you can't make that a blanket role for the rest of your life.

Speaker 4: 2:26:23

Yeah, and that's okay, sometimes it is, but you can't make that a blanket roll for the rest of your life, yeah and that's what I was starting to do god, um, god knew more boys were coming into the picture boys actually like, so it was dangerous. And, um, at this point, my mom gets a job that is going to bring her to arizona. No, my mom, my dad, my dad gets a job that's going to bring her to arizona. My mom's job is we'll let you work remotely.

Speaker 3: 2:26:47

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 2:26:48

When working remotely was like never even heard of at the time, cause we're we're talking early 2000s like 2001, 2002.

Speaker 2: 2:26:56

Yeah, this is 20 years before COVID.

Speaker 4: 2:26:58

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:27:00

You had to go into the office to get paid.

Speaker 4: 2:27:02

Every day every day. And so and I'm concerned now about my you know what's going to be said at me, about me at school, because I've I've been at riva's house twice yeah, and I've.

Speaker 2: 2:27:14

Everybody at school knows about riva.

Speaker 4: 2:27:17

I have injured her brother's pride, wow so he's he, and he told all his boys that I was at the house. You know, boys being boys, young, stupid things.

Speaker 3: 2:27:29

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 2:27:30

And so I'm back at school and I'm getting side-eyed by some of the girls like we didn't know you rode like that and I'm going, what are you talking about? And they're like we heard you were at Reva's house like all night and I was just like, okay, that's kind of true, but it wasn't like that and I didn't know and they're like you did, you didn't know, you know like people just didn't believe, I didn't know and I was just real innocent about that stuff.

Speaker 4: 2:27:56

I was and so, and then because, because of her brother, there was rumors that I did more and that, and some some people heard I did things with both of them and I didn't do anything, and so I'm upset, I'm more and that and some some people heard I did things with both of them and I didn't do anything, and so I'm upset, I'm frustrated, and now my reputation is being impugned because I was the good. Christian girl and. I was the one that was talking about Jesus and.

Speaker 4: 2:28:16

I was being made fun of for that already yeah and now it's like oh, the Christian girl fell like, fell, off like fell off like completely off and she's about that life. She backslid Right and so let that get around in the boys' locker room. Yeah, so now boys are like, they're like so what do I got to do, oh man. And I don't know what to do with this.

Speaker 2: 2:28:39

Because I'm just like I am not that girl.

Speaker 5: 2:28:45

Kick them all in their private parts.

Speaker 4: 2:28:47

I'm telling them, I'm not that girl, I'm not that girl, and they're like we won't, I won't tell nobody. It's cool, you know, and I'm just like I don't do that. So the lord it's I'm getting. The pressure of having a reputation that I did not earn, yeah, is messing with my head. I already feel like sexually I've let God down. Yeah, and so I'm going. Well, they already think I've given it up.

Speaker 2: 2:29:09

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 2:29:10

I don't know. I don't know if I'm a virgin anymore, anyway, because I've been masturbating for a while. Yeah, so maybe I'm not a virgin. Yeah, and what am I holding on to? Yeah, wow.

Speaker 1: 2:29:22

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:29:23

And so man.

Speaker 4: 2:29:25

It's real, there's this boy named Chad. He approached me. He was I don't know how to pick him Anyway he had been held back twice. What so he was technically 20.

Speaker 1: 2:29:38

Oh Jesus.

Speaker 4: 2:29:39

But Texas has different rules on when and it's 21.

Speaker 1: 2:29:42

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 2:29:43

So you can hang out with 15 year olds oh as long as you're enrolled oh, wow and you're still finishing your schooling. Wow, so he's not 21 yet yeah but he's, he's 20 and every, and he's every sense yeah and he's way too, old for me to be around but, he's in a couple of my classes and he goes to school with me and rides the bus with me, and he's showing interest and he is he rode the bus with you.

Speaker 1: 2:30:07

He wrote the bus right, like again, and I'm sorry I don't mean to laugh at you, chad, my bad buddy I don't think chad's gonna watch this bud.

Speaker 4: 2:30:17

No and so uh he rode the bus with me and and it was just, it was just I again, innocent I don't know what I'm dealing with. But he's a man.

Speaker 2: 2:30:28

He knows what he wants, and the fact that he knows what to say to a 15-year-old, 16-year-old girl.

Speaker 1: 2:30:32

He knows how to behave.

Speaker 4: 2:30:34

He's old enough to make money. So he's buying things and I'm receiving things and I'm like this is great. He's also old enough to know how to play the Christian game, because in the South a lot of kids are forced to go to church and I don't know, maybe in other places too, but especially black culture. Most of us grew up in church. Not a lot of us grew up in the Lord.

Speaker 2: 2:30:56

That's real.

Speaker 1: 2:30:58

In his language.

Speaker 4: 2:30:58

Yeah, and so he knows what to say, he knows what to do. He's making me feel comfortable and he's just like, and what it is is he's having my back against the rumors yeah and so when other boys are like, well, ashley's next, and he's like, leave her alone, she's not like that, and so what does that do? In my sight, he's a hero he's protecting me he's protecting me. So what do I? What am I gonna do?

Speaker 4: 2:31:19

I'm gonna hang out with him more because, I don't have to stand up for myself anymore and I don't have to tell people myself anymore. So now he's a friend and he's like I actually really like you, but I want to respect your boundaries. That opens my heart more.

Speaker 3: 2:31:35

Yeah, honestly.

Speaker 4: 2:31:36

And I didn't know he was playing a game. But by the grace of God and the rules of my parents, I'm only seeing him at school and on the bus and he's like well, let me have your phone number. And I was like, well, I can give out my phone number, but it's the house line because, by the way, everybody knows cell phones. Yet there were cell phones, but mostly adults had them, and so I don't have a cell phone. And I'm like what's the house number?

Speaker 2: 2:32:08

So if you call the house, like my dad may answer my dad's going to pick up the phone, and if you ask for me, like you got a deep voice.

Speaker 4: 2:32:13

you know he's actually there. Who is this dude and this first red flag? He's like I'm not afraid of fathers and I'm just like oh okay.

Speaker 2: 2:32:18

Wow, as as a young girl, that that seems like a nice power move, as as a woman Now as a woman, you're like, oh, he's done this before.

Speaker 4: 2:32:27

Dear God, thank you for your protection. Um, but anyway, I give him my phone. I'm not supposed to be on the phone with boys, Really not. But um, I was. I was playing with boundaries. I don't know, I'm good Christian girl, but also playing with boundaries and so talking on the phone every now and then. The last thing I need is a man's voice in my ear, right and so um, so that that's not helping in my struggle.

Speaker 2: 2:32:52

Um what are you? 18, 17, 16, 16. Oh Jesus, Just about to be, you know 16.

Speaker 4: 2:32:58

My birthday's in May, so I age up at the end of the school year.

Speaker 4: 2:33:01

So, and it's coming close to the end of the school year, but, um, it's around. This time I'm getting closer to him. I don't know. My parents are getting an offer to move us and so he's 20, so he's, he's got a driver's license, but he had been suspended or something, I don't know. There were things, things ahead of me that I was just like I didn't know they were red flags, yeah. So, um, he's like, well, I have a car, you know, I can come pick up one night, maybe we can go to a movie or something.

Speaker 1: 2:33:26

You have a car and you're riding a bus.

Speaker 4: 2:33:27

Because he wanted to hang out with the young girls and I didn't put that together and I did ask later, like, if you've got a car, why are you running? But he was like well, sometimes I like to be with my friends, and that was all I needed.

Speaker 4: 2:33:40

That makes sense right right because I like to be my friends on the bus too. So he's offering to do this stuff pick me up or take me out and I'm like my parents aren't gonna like this, they're not gonna. He was like well, don't tell him oh, that was the first time I had a don't just don't tell him and I was like that's wrong, I don't want to lie. And he was like they won't, they won't be mad if they don't know yeah and I was just like yo.

Speaker 4: 2:34:03

You don't know my mom, like god talks to her, yeah, like she will know like this is, she's gonna find out and I'd had other experiences where I'd come home and my mom straight up looked me in the face and goes I know what you just did at school and nobody knew, wow. And I was like shoot the lord tattletales.

Speaker 4: 2:34:21

Okay, you know, and I'm back. That's real, and so that was the other reason why I didn't get in a lot of trouble, because I'd expect I fully Wow and I was like shoot the Lord tattletales.

Speaker 5: 2:34:25

Okay, you know, and I'm backtracking, that's real, and so that was the other reason why I didn't get in a lot of trouble.

Speaker 4: 2:34:29

Because I fully expected God to tell me.

Speaker 2: 2:34:30

God's going to tell mama.

Speaker 4: 2:34:32

And he did, and so I'm going. I don't want to lie to my parents. That's not who I am. He's putting a little pressure on I'm. It's a little bit more pressure than I expected. And then all of a sudden, my parents are like we're moving.

Speaker 2: 2:34:45

Oh, thank.

Speaker 4: 2:34:46

God, we're moving to Arizona. And I'm angry because I'm like I just came back to Frisco. I'm just now making more friends. I have a reputation I need to salvage here and of course I like this guy.

Speaker 3: 2:35:00

I don't want to do things with him, but I like him and in my whole world.

Speaker 4: 2:35:04

I'm in high school. I'm gonna be a junior next year like what are you doing? Like we're supposed to buy a bigger house because they were thinking about that and my mom's like. Our house isn't. It's gonna be in arizona and I'm like who goes to arizona? Black people are not in the desert like this is what this is what I'm just like.

Speaker 5: 2:35:21

We're gonna burn alive right.

Speaker 4: 2:35:30

My understanding of arizona are what you see on those old westerns like bonanza and gun smoke, like there's these rocks and nothing else, and I'm just like there's nothing in Arizona and music industries and Dallas and my talent. Like I can, I can be somebody. I want to go to college in Texas if we go to Arizona. I'm not a resident, I can't afford SMU or you know Texas and all. I can't go. And my parents are like God is calling us to Arizona and I'm like okay, so my fight's not with you.

Speaker 3: 2:36:06

My fight's with God, thank you.

Speaker 4: 2:36:09

And so I go to my prayer closet and I'm fighting it out with God and the Lord's like don't play with me, I see you.

Speaker 3: 2:36:17

You're going in the wrong direction.

Speaker 4: 2:36:18

I am moving your family to Arizona. Come on, because I am moving you Amen and at that point I was like oh okay, and I for real felt like God put baby in the corner.

Speaker 1: 2:36:33

He just was like sit your butt down.

Speaker 4: 2:36:35

You are losing control and I'm moving you.

Speaker 5: 2:36:38

And so we literally uprooted.

Speaker 4: 2:36:41

We moved here my parents. Obviously it was a different perspective for them.

Speaker 1: 2:36:45

There was a job and there was increase and there was real blessing in it for our family.

Speaker 4: 2:36:49

For me. I 100% knew God was ripping me away from things that were ripping me away from him. Um, and and I was like okay, lord, I okay, and I had enough of a relationship to just go. I understand that you will do that and I told you I was yours. Yeah, so All right, so he brought me to Arizona. I'm going to Higley High School. Oh nice, when there was no one Really. It's the second year it's open.

Speaker 3: 2:37:19

Oh, wow.

Speaker 4: 2:37:19

I'm leaving a high school of about 5,000, going to now a high school of maybe 200.

Speaker 2: 2:37:26

It's surrounded by cow fields and pastures.

Speaker 4: 2:37:30

My first day.

Speaker 5: 2:37:31

Right.

Speaker 4: 2:37:32

Yeah, my first day of school. Mom's dropping me off, or maybe it was registration or something like that. This girl rides up on a horse and ties her horse to the flagpole. I'm not judging. I'm from Texas.

Speaker 5: 2:37:45

We have cattle, we have cattle.

Speaker 2: 2:37:46

We have horses.

Speaker 4: 2:37:48

We don't ride them to school it's a little different.

Speaker 2: 2:37:51

In the wild wild west it is.

Speaker 4: 2:37:53

And I'm in the car. We had a Nissan Quest at the time and I'm in the front seat and I look at my mom and I'm like, really, like, for real, this is the school you picked and she's just like this is where I feel like God wants you to be and I was like, of course he wants me. In the desert, in the middle of nowhere, with nobody but cows and horses and just like okay, cool, the wilderness season.

Speaker 4: 2:38:17

I went from a big school with a lot of black people, a lot of culture that I understood to a school where there's four of us that look like me.

Speaker 4: 2:38:27

A lot of people who I honestly feel like they hadn't seen very many black people before, because the way they were looking at me was like, oh, and I'm like you should not be shocked to see someone who looks like me, but at the same time I understand that's a reality. I dealt with racism in texas I. I've dealt with it in california, I'm dealing with it in arizona it, but it's it's a different type. It's not the racism you'd read about in the history books and stuff it. It was the, the nicey, nice political, like, oh, your hair is so different. You know that that kind of and it's not racism, it's more or less. You don't know how to handle speaking to someone who's different than you and it feels like you're making, you're singling me out at the same time.

Speaker 4: 2:39:14

I don't know if maybe you're just trying to get to know me. Like it was weird yeah, you know it's weirdness. So I'm dealing with this weirdness. I'm one of the few um, there's four of us, but there's only me and one other girl that are black. So the other two are boys okay, um, naturally the boys think I'm gonna fall in love with one of them because they've got two to pick from right, so they're loving their odds and I'm just like, oh gosh

Speaker 4: 2:39:42

I, I loved and hated um going to school there. It was hard. It's hard to be a new person in your junior year when everybody has all these relationships and these connections, the cliques, have already been formed I don't know gilbert, I don't know arizona. Gilbert seemed really far from any type of signs of life at the time I'm talking 2002, so yeah there was no mall, there was no walmart, yet except for the one that's down the street from here.

Speaker 4: 2:40:07

Um, I think the only target was the one on valvista and in warner, where that was the one we went to. Um, and so I was just like mom, dad, like this. Really, this is really crazy and I don't know how I'm gonna make friends in like a year and a half before I have to graduate to go to college, so I'm I'll be changing schools again.

Speaker 3: 2:40:25

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 2:40:26

Yeah, um, but I did, I made a couple of friends, I did Okay, god, I was in an isolated season. Um, I did not have the friendships I had. I um my best friends in Texas were like there were three girls.

Speaker 4: 2:40:47

I hung out with and they were like thank you. But then, of course, over time, over time, you lose track. Yeah, um, out of sight, out of mind, yeah, and so it was hard. It was rough that that boy, chad, tried to hang on. He called me a couple times. I did get a cell phone when we moved and so I was stupid and gave him my number. Um, and so he called a couple times.

Speaker 4: 2:40:58

My mom and dad found out about it and man we were in arizona, so I think my punishment wasn't as bad because they were like okay he's in Texas.

Speaker 5: 2:41:06

What can he do?

Speaker 4: 2:41:06

But they also probably didn't know how old he was.

Speaker 2: 2:41:11

Yeah, he can get in his car and drive.

Speaker 4: 2:41:13

And so I had to confess that I had this secret relationship that I really didn't know about. And my mom was really disappointed, but at the same time she was like all right, she was like I'm going to start believing you when you show me who you are.

Speaker 3: 2:41:24

Wow.

Speaker 4: 2:41:25

I'm just going to start believing you. And I knew that was like if you keep this up, we're not going to fight you. We're just we're going to, we're going to believe what we see. And so I was like, okay, god, I'm going to get my life together. I'm going to get it together. I'm still struggling behind the scenes, then they don't know my struggle. Yeah, so, um, I event, uh, I got into.

Speaker 2: 2:41:51

So American Idol had become this thing that year, where it was just like American Idol was on the scene. Oh, it was 2002. This is Kelly Clarkson. This is the first year. Yeah, I was glued, oh my God, so was I, and so were you.

Speaker 1: 2:41:59

Most people were yeah, we all were. I watched it on Sunday. Yeah, it was.

Speaker 2: 2:42:02

Kelly Clarkson and the dude with the curly hair.

Speaker 4: 2:42:05

Right.

Speaker 2: 2:42:06

Justin, justin, justin. I forgot his last name.

Speaker 4: 2:42:08

I don't know, watrini, I think. Anyway, I was glued for different reasons. Because I was glued going, I could take them both.

Speaker 1: 2:42:15

Opportunity Grammys.

Speaker 4: 2:42:16

I can take them both, oh wow.

Speaker 2: 2:42:18

And I knew I could.

Speaker 4: 2:42:26

And Kelly was good, but I was like I'm better, I'm, I'm better, I can seem just as good and and not in a prideful way, but just more or less.

Speaker 3: 2:42:29

I know my gift, yeah, and I had been honing it, yeah, for years working on it yeah, four years.

Speaker 4: 2:42:32

So, um, I told my mom I was like I think I want to do American Idol and she was like, well, there's this thing Arizona Idol because, there was this commercial that had come on. Yeah, and she's like we can do it, they'll send you yeah and so the this. The competition basically was like compete in your state. If you win in arizona against the people in arizona, then you automatically progress to like the top 30 or top 15 or something like that of american idol yeah and I was like bet, like I'm a win yeah um, now, now get this.

Speaker 4: 2:43:06

I'm 16. They hadn't had any contestants on american idol that were this young because it's only been one year they were all like adults. And so I'm 16, I go to the arizona idol competition. It's halloween night. My mom and I are sleeping on the street. It's the. It was a fox studio at the time, but I I think now it's dodge or something. It's a different studio dodge theater, dodge theater. So we're sleeping on the, on the concrete I'm sleeping, my mom is not sleeping.

Speaker 4: 2:43:33

It's halloween night, like nobody's sleeping with me but we I had to be there to be in line for the next morning for the competition. So we got our place in line. Um, I had socks wrapped around my throat. I'm again. I don't drink, I don't do drugs because my my craft, my, this is my gift yeah and so I'm not playing with it so I'm wrapping myself up, I'm making sure I'm eating, drinking the right things.

Speaker 4: 2:43:56

Um, gave up chocolate for two days. If you're a vocalist, you understand, but the things, certain things, you eat can create a film on your vocal cords and it can change your tone.

Speaker 1: 2:44:05

So I'm that serious. It's exciting Chocolate, does that?

Speaker 4: 2:44:08

Chocolate can do that, milk can do that, cheese can do that, so I wasn't eating any of that stuff because. I'm like an athlete at this point.

Speaker 1: 2:44:16

I'm trying to go to the Super Bowl. I'm trying to make it.

Speaker 4: 2:44:19

Anyway, halloween night we're sleeping on the street. Mom stays up all night so that I can sleep. Thank you, mom, I go, I compete. I think at this point my parents are like we're just going to encourage her in a gift this is a gift we're just going to push her towards her gift. I compete against hundreds of people and I made top 30.

Speaker 3: 2:44:41

Really.

Speaker 4: 2:44:45

And my parents are like oh, you made it, yeah, and I'm going. What were you expecting?

Speaker 3: 2:44:47

like I'm good you know and I think they knew I was good but, I.

Speaker 4: 2:44:51

I don't know if they really expected me to be that many people, because you don't always know what your kids are capable of until, like you know, yeah so I'm in top 30 of arizona idol and I get the call back and mom's like okay, and she's like I need to put in for time off because I have another call back you know, I got another competition.

Speaker 4: 2:45:08

So my parents are like, okay, she's progressed, we gotta get time off, this is a thing, and they're working around it. My sister, um, who's like eight at this point, she's like, yay, sissy, you know. And, um, I'm serious about it. And so I'm like, okay, they have, we have to.

Speaker 4: 2:45:25

I go back, I have another competition and I make I progress again to, I think, top 10 at that point wow and so then now my parents are sweating because I'm talking about if I make it, I'm quitting school like I'm going professional, like this is, this is my, this is what I'm gonna do. This is the god's opening, the door.

Speaker 2: 2:45:43

I don't know why, but he's opening the door.

Speaker 4: 2:45:44

I'm not going back. And mom's like you is what I'm going to do. God's opening the door. I don't know why, but he's opening the door. I'm not going back. And mom's like you're going to go to school.

Speaker 1: 2:45:51

She's like this is your education.

Speaker 4: 2:45:53

So we're having to have big conversations really fast, because it's like only a week.

Speaker 5: 2:45:58

Yeah, only like a week in between dates and stuff.

Speaker 4: 2:46:08

And so I've made it to the point where now, um, there's a smaller group of us and we're on the news, and so it's like fox morning news. Um, I had to get up real early, go do the taping. They interviewed us in pairs and like how old are you? I'm young, like I'm one of the youngest in the competition like oh you're just a baby, you know I wish I had a recording, but they didn't. You could. It wasn't like on youtube or anything it's live tv.

Speaker 3: 2:46:27

TV.

Speaker 4: 2:46:27

And so, um, and I'm like, yeah, and then they're like you're young, how long have you been able to sing? And I'm like I sing for the Lord.

Speaker 1: 2:46:33

I've known, I've been, you know, I'm doing this on the news and I'm telling people on the news like I sing for God and he's going to open the door and bold, but at the same time trying to like scare the girl next to me because I'm competing against her for top five.

Speaker 4: 2:46:49

Um, and then so we do compete, I get eliminated, move into top five and I think my parents were relieved because it was top five then winner and I was like in winter meant I would have to go to california yeah I'd have to live in the the house yeah and there was a lot of layers of like legalities that they hadn't figured out yet yeah, they're like okay, she's under age, you know just this whole, all the stuff and so and so, um, I was crushed and I was upset because I was like I know I should have won.

Speaker 4: 2:47:21

I no one's really said this, but I 100% feel I got eliminated because I was 16 and there may have been more money in getting me and my family over to. California. But anyway, that's what I've told myself for years.

Speaker 4: 2:47:37

I don't know it could have been. I just lost but um. But at that point you know, my school was invested, um, because I was in top 10, I was on the news that morning. And then the radio guys from 104.6, 104.7, I forgot their names, they were on the radio for years. They came to the school and they ran a pep rally for us.

Speaker 5: 2:48:01

They brought their DJ stuff, that's cool, but it was just that big, and so at my school but it was just that big, and so I at my school I had it was crazy I had people asking for my autograph and so but what was happening was the lord was like is this really?

Speaker 4: 2:48:18

yeah, what you want, what you're after, yeah like and and in a matter of a couple of weeks. You know, I'm in class and boys are like, sign my shoe. And I'm like sign your shoe. I mean these are Jordans. Yeah, sign my shoe. And they're like because they're thinking.

Speaker 2: 2:48:35

I'm going to be famous.

Speaker 4: 2:48:38

That poor boy. His shoes are ruined because.

Speaker 3: 2:48:41

I signed them.

Speaker 4: 2:48:42

But, like I was signing autographs, I was signing shoes and I'm realizing that while I was telling people, I was singing for the Lord. This was all about me.

Speaker 5: 2:48:52

Um, and I'm going.

Speaker 4: 2:48:53

oh okay, something about this is this is not right, like it doesn't feel good, it doesn't feel right, and that doesn't mean I can't do that stuff, but I was caught up. There was just this whirlwind of all of a sudden. People knew my name, people just everywhere. And so or Gilbert, everywhere is Gilbert. But I got eliminated and I was hurt when I talked to the Lord about it and I was like why? Why? Because I know I'm good enough.

Speaker 3: 2:49:26

Like why did I get eliminated?

Speaker 4: 2:49:28

And the girl that won, that progressed. She didn't make it past top 30 in American Idol and I was like see, Lord, you just totally wasted that, like I would have told the whole world you know, I would have at least preached about you. Like she didn't, and the Lord at that point was like you think this is your only gift, wow. This isn't Wow, and that was all he said to me, and I was just like well, it's the only one that matters.

Speaker 4: 2:49:53

You know like this is the only way I see myself supporting myself you know and being somebody in the future. So then I graduate. You know, I have to finish school at this point and that was the hardest thing is being eliminated and having to go back to school on Monday and have to explain to people I didn't make it. I didn't make it or not explain to people and people are like giving me back my autographs oh geez.

Speaker 5: 2:50:15

Like well, here you go, you didn't make it, I don't need it anymore. Kids can be mean, yeah. And I'm that's fine, I can take it um, so I just buried myself in band.

Speaker 4: 2:50:30

I became excellent in band, became drum major my senior year, yeah, for a little while. The applebee's on power and warner, no power and ray. There used to be applebee's on the corner.

Speaker 3: 2:50:38

There there's a walmart and a target there I think it's gateway.

Speaker 4: 2:50:41

Yeah, um, that was our school's applebee's, and so what they, the applebees, do if you have a school in the area, they take the picture of your yearbook and they'll make it big and put it on the wall, yeah um. So that was our higley's location the cover of my yearbook was me um drum majoring and so there's. But it was huge.

Speaker 4: 2:51:00

It was a huge picture yeah and so they took the cover of the year but blew it up and it was on the apple bees and I was like, oh my gosh, I'm on it.

Speaker 1: 2:51:07

So it, but I did.

Speaker 4: 2:51:09

I was drum major, I did good and I did well can you still play?

Speaker 2: 2:51:12

yeah, I think it's hilarious that, god, you got the last year of school. The drums finally come out from my mom or no, no recorder. Clarinet, wind instrument no drums, no drums. Well, my instrument in band was clarinet all those years.

Speaker 4: 2:51:29

So I played clarinet from sixth grade to twelfth grade, so I won competitions for the states and stuff like that. But drum major meant I was the person leading the band. Oh, so the drum major doesn't actually play the drums. They're the one on the stand when you're marching and the marching band is marching.

Speaker 1: 2:51:47

They're on the stand and they're directing or they have that baton, oh yeah.

Speaker 4: 2:51:50

So any band member if they're good enough and reach for it hard enough can progress to drum major. Oh, I was thinking, yeah, so was I no I did do that for a little while because I wanted to try it, but you were the leader of the whole thing. So I was basically like being captain of the band.

Speaker 1: 2:52:07

Like, hit me a drum line girl. Captain of the band, basically Okay.

Speaker 4: 2:52:11

But I had a reason for that I wanted to go to a historically black college and their marching bands. Are huge with that kind of stuff Are amazing and I knew if I wanted to be recognized.

Speaker 2: 2:52:22

Well, I got to be recognized well by historically drum major at higley.

Speaker 4: 2:52:27

I needed to reach as high as I could from this, from a school that they wouldn't recognize.

Speaker 2: 2:52:29

I needed a title is drum major, the highest title or whatever of the orchestra or the, the if, yeah, it's like being quarterback, okay, like you are yes I mean, I okay, outside of being the actual band director, who's hired by the school to be the band director? I'm right under that person Are drum majors, usually seniors.

Speaker 4: 2:52:49

Usually.

Speaker 2: 2:52:50

Okay.

Speaker 4: 2:52:51

They will make exceptions if you are extremely talented Okay. And you've reached as far as you can with your instrument, and that's what happened with me. I'd played clarinet for so long and understand. I'm coming from Texas to Arizona.

Speaker 3: 2:53:03

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 2:53:03

Texas is number 10 in the state for their music and education programs. Arizona was 49.

Speaker 3: 2:53:08

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:53:09

So, yeah, we were the 48th state, yeah. We got a reason yeah, we moved up. We're a little far behind.

Speaker 4: 2:53:16

Yeah, we moved up. We're 48 now.

Speaker 5: 2:53:18

At the time we were 49. So we're doing better. We're going the right way, Amen. We're going the right way.

Speaker 4: 2:53:22

But so when I came from Texas in high school, I came much, just much further ahead than most of my counterpart, and so my band director was like I can't challenge you anymore, like you're just, you're already there.

Speaker 1: 2:53:36

You ever seen Drumline?

Speaker 3: 2:53:37

Oh yeah, I love that movie.

Speaker 1: 2:53:38

I want the movie. I love that movie.

Speaker 5: 2:53:40

It's a great movie.

Speaker 1: 2:53:41

But that was my dream, where they, they battle like that.

Speaker 4: 2:53:44

Oh yeah, and that's real.

Speaker 1: 2:53:46

That's a historically black college in that movie and that movie was based on real stuff.

Speaker 4: 2:53:50

And so that's what I wanted. The Lord, again in his grace, did not allow me to go to a historically black college because I like the boys Anyway, I didn't need that. I didn't need the distraction, so I graduate from high school and I go to ASU.

Speaker 2: 2:54:06

Let's go Sun Devils.

Speaker 5: 2:54:07

I'm a Sun Devil and.

Speaker 1: 2:54:10

I, finally, we got one dude. Nice man. All these Ohio State people, come on, man, you're my favorite guest you're my favorite guest.

Speaker 5: 2:54:23

Let's go ASU well.

Speaker 1: 2:54:27

Pastor Tom went to asu.

Speaker 2: 2:54:28

Yeah yeah he got saved into the wild rats. Yeah, oh, my goodness. No, I love you pastor you're still my favorite guest.

Speaker 4: 2:54:39

Oh, thank you, I wear that title proudly um no, so I'm at asu and, honestly, I don't know what I'm doing. What are you majoring? I don't know what I'm doing?

Speaker 2: 2:54:46

What are you majoring in?

Speaker 4: 2:54:48

I don't know what I'm doing there, Cause I wanted. I wanted big band. I wanted black college I wanted. My dream for that season was so completely different and so far out of reach Now that we're residents of Arizona and not Texas anymore that I was just like I don't know you lost. I am a little lost. I had only been in Arizona for like a couple years and now. I'm in college and I don't really know that much. I don't know the history of ASU Are you on a scholarship?

Speaker 4: 2:55:16

No, well, I did get a scholarship, a partial scholarship, but I'm not. I'm taking out loans. My parents did my first year but, I'm going to have to take out loans, but again, education.

Speaker 1: 2:55:27

Was the scholarship for band no.

Speaker 4: 2:55:29

The scholarship was for grades I did have really good grades. I was an honor student AP student. Still did track and all that stuff. But, that wasn't because I liked to be working that hard at school.

Speaker 3: 2:55:49

Nothing was going to get in the way of music and college was the next step for me for music.

Speaker 4: 2:55:53

So if I wanted to go to an excellent school, like at one point I was looking at um carnegie- oh, wow hall I did go to, or are you?

Speaker 1: 2:56:01

I toured um oral roberts university because they have a great music program and and they were kind of a Christian college but I was burnt against the whole Christian education thing.

Speaker 5: 2:56:10

I just I think it worked out well. I don't trust, I don't trust these Christian people right now.

Speaker 1: 2:56:15

Like that's where I was at. I was like y'all say you're Christian these.

Speaker 4: 2:56:18

Christian kids Woo, especially those PKs. Woo that WKs. That's what it was like growing up in Mesa Mormon kids.

Speaker 1: 2:56:26

Mormonism was an education Pregnant at 16 all the time Mormonism was an education coming here from Texas. I didn't know anything about it until we got here. Wonderful people, great people.

Speaker 4: 2:56:36

Very confused. Great people Great people for the most part when they changed their stance on being black men, that's right, I forgot about that so that was clear. And so when, whenever Mormons are like you should come to seminary, I'm like, um, am I going to get into heaven?

Speaker 1: 2:56:55

You have no reason to talk to me if there's no hope and they're like oh, we don't really believe that anymore.

Speaker 4: 2:57:00

It's fine, Um, I'm over it guys.

Speaker 2: 2:57:06

I'm over it, we've got a class on Monday for that.

Speaker 4: 2:57:08

I'm just kidding, I think we're going to see a new face. On Monday I had great Mormon friends. I will say that they were some of the greatest people.

Speaker 1: 2:57:16

It was actually a Mormon dude who made me look at God differently.

Speaker 2: 2:57:22

A Mormon family and how they were blessed by God.

Speaker 1: 2:57:24

No, because I was working at mason muffler. I was probably I don't know 18, 19, 20 years old yeah and a kid from high school came in, dressed nice, had a nice truck, and I'm like what's so different about him? I mean and the only thing different about him was he. He was a mormon, he went to church.

Speaker 4: 2:57:43

I to church. That was the unique thing about going to school with Mormons they were just so unashamed of their faith.

Speaker 3: 2:57:52

They still are.

Speaker 1: 2:57:53

They are and a lot of the concepts that the gospel preaches.

Speaker 4: 2:57:57

The gospel not the Mormon book, the gospel. They have a great understanding of that. They've grabbed it. They have a good handle on it they do. The part for me that was frustrating was like I knew they were slight, you know they were off in their theology.

Speaker 1: 2:58:15

They're just off and it's okay.

Speaker 4: 2:58:17

God has got to play. He's going to get to the people he wants to get to Right. But at the same time it was like for the first time I felt comfortable again being a Christian in a secular environment, because there were so many.

Speaker 1: 2:58:33

Mormons being Christian was not.

Speaker 4: 2:58:36

it didn't make me stand out and it's weird that in Texas you stood out for that. Most people were Christian because they went to church, not because they really believed in God, and I was. I was like this unique unicorn of like why are? You talking? I go to church with my mom on sunday. Why are you trying to talk to me about my relationship? You know it's this weird religion they were in religion.

Speaker 4: 2:58:57

They didn't have relationship, and so here's the thing I'm like I know what religion looks like in texas. I come to ari, arizona, and these people who are lost in their theology, who are actually trapped in a religion, have the remnants of relationship that people who actually have the real gospel don't have. And it was just like how can you Like? And so, as a Christian, I was reconciling that, as you know, 16, 17, 18, going God how can a Mormon love you more than a believer who's grown up with the true word?

Speaker 1: 2:59:34

If you look at the religions that have flawed theology Jehovah Witnesses, mormons, a lot of those people even though their theology is flawed, their concept and reality of what following Christ looks like is pretty spot on.

Speaker 4: 2:59:51

Well, and it's works-based.

Speaker 1: 2:59:52

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 2:59:53

So you have to earn it.

Speaker 3: 2:59:54

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 2:59:55

You have no opportunity to if you mess up you're royally messed up in some of these so when I realized that, that these are all very works-based and there's very little grace.

Speaker 1: 3:00:07

They lost me with the whole planet thing and coming to God I'm like you guys are lost man. Oh what, that ain't happening, dude.

Speaker 4: 3:00:14

I mean they lost me from day one. But when I realized the baptism of the dead, oh yeah.

Speaker 4: 3:00:19

And I had friends coming to school with bloodshot eyes because they had been used in proxy for baptizing people who were dead, oh jesus. And they had been up all night and I was like, oh my gosh, are you gonna be okay today? Like we're in band class and she can hardly put her clarinet together and she's like I just took a shower and I just her eyes are bloodshot from the chlorine, you know whatever they're using in the water to keep it clean and baptized jesus. I was like baby girl, this is not healthy.

Speaker 1: 3:00:45

This is not okay, and those people are gone.

Speaker 4: 3:00:48

Like you can't, and so being a kid and having the relationship I had with the Lord and the knowledge that I had of. Christ and the scriptures, and then talking with Mormons, god really did place me in a really cool position to be like to bust their world a little open and be like oh no the scripture doesn't say that and you were doing all this on the asu campus. No, I'm doing this in high school, okay? Um, when I got to asu, it was I.

Speaker 4: 3:01:13

I didn't really have friends at college asu because, um, I did one year one summer. It was called summer bridge. You can go there early after you graduate and spend the summer there and get a few credits. It was really designed for the football players who are transferring in for other states so that they can kind of get acclimated. But they opened it to regular residents and so of course my mom, I don't know, she knows everything, she figured it out and she's like you're going to school. Get your butt up there and so.

Speaker 4: 3:01:42

I'm there, and I'm there with a whole bunch of football boys. Oh, Jesus. And I'm living on campus. They're living on campus. There's other girls and stuff too, but it's mostly the football team.

Speaker 2: 3:01:59

And the campus is dead because it's the summer, everybody leaves.

Speaker 4: 3:02:03

So I'm not in the greatest position here to keep my walk with the lord clean and honestly strong um, but at this point I have learned my boundaries. I have learned my weaknesses. I've stopped lying to myself about what I can handle and what I can't and so, um and honestly, my isolated time, those two years at higley with the lord, did a lot for my relationship with god. I was able to retrospectively look at. Okay, this is where I invited stuff in.

Speaker 5: 3:02:32

This is where I should have said no, and so he was teaching me and I was learning um, so I'm on fire with god.

Speaker 4: 3:02:39

Right now. I'm still struggling, but it's an active struggle, like I am fighting this thing. Yeah, um, and I'm on campus at ASU and I will. I will never forget. It was old Apache building. It's torn down now, but it was on um Apache and on the campus. Oh yeah, right there in the corner it was a, it was a hotel, but they taken the hotel and renovated it and turned it into dorms.

Speaker 3: 3:03:04

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 3:03:06

Some of the rooms still had adjoining doors.

Speaker 1: 3:03:08

Oh Jesus.

Speaker 4: 3:03:09

And one of my room had an adjoining door, but they had put the beds in front of the door and there was only a handle on one side. So, you could only open the door from one side. Well, the handle was on my side, so I was like, okay, I'm good, me and my roommate. I told her. I was like under no circumstances will this door ever open for anybody if you want to live.

Speaker 4: 3:03:31

Like that was just how, and we had that conversation. She was pretty much cool with that. She had a boyfriend that she would sneak in sometimes and I would be like, just let me know.

Speaker 2: 3:03:40

Not through my door. I'm going to leave.

Speaker 4: 3:03:43

leave like, just warn me, please but um so my parents got me all set up. They were excited. Now they're launching baby bird and it's a college and um, I'm there and the guys on the. It's a co-ed dorm because it's summer so they're not opening all the dorms to have boys and girls, so on the other side of my my room there are three guys oh geez because they had a little bit bigger room there are three football football players who are from california, so they're away from home.

Speaker 4: 3:04:13

Yeah, they're in college now they're turning up yeah and lit and just lit all the time and so at one point they're playing videos and movies. They're like party in our room. You know everybody's trying and asu still has a reputation of being a party school at this point. And I didn't know that. And so I'm just. I don't know what to do. I'm trying to study.

Speaker 3: 3:04:33

I'm still treating it like high school you know, and they were like, come to the room, come party.

Speaker 4: 3:04:41

And I was just, like I don, getting up and walking over to the room Like should I be here? Should I be here, should I be? Here, you don't hear in those situations. And I get to the room and they're having fun and they're cracking up, they're huddled around this TV and somebody hands me a cup.

Speaker 4: 3:04:59

I know better than to drink anything, and so I just poured it out in a plant and I and I'm holding the cup and they're like ashley, come over here. They called me. They called me radio because I had one hadn't seen the movie. Yeah, um, I don't know if you've seen the movie with kuba gooding jr I did not know he was special yeah but anyway, they called me radio because I would sing all the time. So they were. They were calling me that because of singing.

Speaker 4: 3:05:24

But one of the boys also called me radio because I didn't know stuff yeah and so he's like you're special like I didn't know a lot of things and so, um, they were like radio, come on over here, and I was just like quit calling me that, and I came over, I sat down and I see porn oh, wow on the tv oh, wow and I was just like what is this? And they all crack up laughing because they're just like that's why I call you radio because they knew they just knew and people.

Speaker 4: 3:05:53

I guess knowing meeting me, they just knew I didn't know stuff, and darkness likes to ruin innocence and so I'm. I don't know what to do. I'm like, oh my god, and I'm having this moment of being back in my you know, my grandmother's house like like turn it off?

Speaker 4: 3:06:08

Where's the remote? And they're cracking up, and so I get up to go. One of the guys like pushes me back down. He was like check it out? And I was like no, and so of course I do what I always do I kick somebody, you know.

Speaker 5: 3:06:22

And they leave you alone.

Speaker 4: 3:06:26

And so I get out the room and at this point I'm like this this is unreal. Um, I, my roommate and a few other people were like that was rude, like y'all shouldn't have done that you know, and they they stuck up for me. I, at this point, I prayed and I'm processing with the lord and I'm just like, but I'm already feeling bad because of this long time struggle that I've already had in the background, and I'm going. God, I really need you. I really need you to heal me now, because I don't know.

Speaker 4: 3:06:50

I have no idea what this is gonna do, yeah um and God's just like I got you, like just I got you but, I'm constantly feeling attacked yeah by sexual sin yeah, just constantly yeah so, um, I tell my parents at the end of the summer. I was like, because they're like, do you want to move on campus? I was like, absolutely no, I'm living at home and so I actually don't quite finish this summer. I came home a little early but, um, I move home and I'm like there's food here there's laundry here I'm safe.

Speaker 2: 3:07:20

20 minutes from school.

Speaker 4: 3:07:21

I will work my schedule around. I have a car, so I'll just drive, so I that's what I did. I drove to asu every year, so I didn't really make. I'm safe 20 minutes from school. I will work my schedule around. I have a car, so I'll just drive. So I that's what I did. I drove to. Asu every year, so I didn't really make friends.

Speaker 2: 3:07:30

I didn't um sounds like you went to school for you. I did. Yeah, that's good.

Speaker 4: 3:07:35

Um, but I went to school at that point.

Speaker 2: 3:07:43

instrumentalist clarinetist you can do that as like a major in college.

Speaker 4: 3:07:48

Well, I just, it wasn't my major. So I had played clarinet all middle school, all high school. That was strategic on my part because I was getting enough vocal training and vocal exercise by singing in church all this time. So I wanted to make sure my skill set in reading music and writing music and playing music was just as strong.

Speaker 2: 3:08:10

So I used school that's why you were doing the recorder, that's why I was doing, yeah, the clarinet and drum major and I was, so I was staying sharp on the book side of music and my skill set, singing, I was like.

Speaker 4: 3:08:22

I know I can sharpen that on my own yeah so when I graduated from high school, I wanted to switch and become a vocalist in college. The issue with that was you had, because I had no paper record of ever singing in school. They were like you don't have repertoire, we don't know that you actually have a vocal instrument. We can't see that on your transcripts. Like you did band instead of choir.

Speaker 3: 3:08:45

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 3:08:52

And so I had to audition my way in nice, um, and everyone would have had to audition.

Speaker 1: 3:08:54

But it was an audition like that's a strike against me because I've not been vocally trained.

Speaker 4: 3:08:56

Top 10 arizona idol I know, but I was not classically trained vocally yeah it's different, so they don't they.

Speaker 2: 3:09:01

They weren't like we're not gonna be able to prove it.

Speaker 4: 3:09:03

You can't just say it and there were other kids that could sing that didn't choir for the last like that had all that paper yeah, and so I was just, and I didn't even know you could go to college for vocals. Oh, totally yeah, you can. That's crazy, I couldn't.

Speaker 5: 3:09:15

But that's amazing, that's amazing you can get an education for a voice that's amazing you can, and that's how?

Speaker 4: 3:09:23

you know broadway. You know some of these artists that we see they did this.

Speaker 1: 3:09:27

I thought that was like drama class, I didn't know. That was like something different.

Speaker 4: 3:09:30

Well, you could, you can kind of mix and match a little bit depending on where you go to school and how you work, that you can go to college for anything.

Speaker 1: 3:09:36

Pretty much huh yeah.

Speaker 4: 3:09:39

If you're smart about where Every college has every course available to you.

Speaker 2: 3:09:47

I love you, pastor Ashley. I just looked at them like does that say three hours and nine minutes? You haven't even gotten to Pastor Troy and the girls.

Speaker 4: 3:09:56

Should I let you guys go home?

Speaker 2: 3:09:58

No, Okay, oh, no, oh, no, it's getting good.

Speaker 4: 3:10:02

It is Okay.

Speaker 5: 3:10:03

Sorry, all you listeners hang in there. It's okay, it is, come on Okay sorry, All you listeners hang in there.

Speaker 2: 3:10:07

It's okay, they just go piece by piece. Oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 3:10:10

Yeah, they're good, it's been intriguing so far.

Speaker 2: 3:10:12

Oh yeah, it's, great.

Speaker 1: 3:10:12

Pastor.

Speaker 5: 3:10:13

Ash, I'm glad Okay.

Speaker 4: 3:10:14

Let me know if I need to speed up. But anyway I'm it, I love it.

Speaker 2: 3:10:25

I'm going to talk to her too. Keep him on the reins, man.

Speaker 4: 3:10:29

Keep him going. Hey, I don't think this is going to happen again, so I got to get it out.

Speaker 1: 3:10:33

If you, see him starting to do this kind of stuff. Just give me a nod or something and I'll start. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 3:10:47

I'll just throw some water, roddy, he might start to fall asleep.

Speaker 5: 3:10:50

I'm sorry, roddy, we start getting past nine, my bedtime it's 8.15.

Speaker 4: 3:10:55

Guys, guys Can't we have fun, man oh this is awesome, I'm normally with a nine-year-old and a five-year-old all day. She's like I'm free, I'm free.

Speaker 5: 3:11:06

Yes, it's like adult time I can use big words.

Speaker 4: 3:11:13

This is great, oh my God. So anyway, Thank you, Jesus Lord. I just pray for a fresh wind on that side of the room. The second wind God.

Speaker 2: 3:11:23

Glory.

Speaker 5: 3:11:23

Glory, oh my.

Speaker 4: 3:11:26

God, don't worry about it, I'll press stop if you guys call You're good dude.

Speaker 2: 3:11:32

I ain't going nowhere. No. I just I can't believe it's already been three hours. That's been good. This is great.

Speaker 4: 3:11:39

It's flown by. Okay, well, I'm a little bit of a storyteller, so oh no, yeah, you've had me in, captivated. I love it, I know.

Speaker 2: 3:11:46

A lot of times when we do these, I try to have good questions and to stay attentive and bring stuff out, but that's how you know it's a good one when we're quiet yeah.

Speaker 1: 3:11:55

When we're not asking a lot of questions that you're telling a good story.

Speaker 4: 3:11:58

Oh good, I'm hopeful.

Speaker 1: 3:12:01

Yay, because there have been some that we've had to like.

Speaker 5: 3:12:04

we're like clawing and dragging and just like it's like we get done.

Speaker 1: 3:12:08

I was like that was exhausting dude we had to like pull stuff out of that person.

Speaker 2: 3:12:12

You know what I mean we're not having to with you, you're just freely giving it up, man this is my first time talking about my whole life in perspective like this.

Speaker 1: 3:12:21

So I have a lot to say. I love you, pastor ashley.

Speaker 5: 3:12:24

What do you think so far?

Speaker 1: 3:12:26

what do I think?

Speaker 4: 3:12:26

yeah, oh, I think it's interesting what's come out and what hasn't there's been. There's been things that like that. I didn't. I was like, oh, I didn't share that amen okay, maybe I'm supposed to amen.

Speaker 4: 3:12:37

Um yeah but so, yeah, I'm in college and I basically I decided I was planning my journey and I did not realize I was doing that because my parents are great parents and they were proactive and I believe it was in God's will what they were doing, but they were proactively like what are your dreams, what are your goals? I heard my entire life fail to plan. Yeah, fail to plan plan to fail. So I'm planning.

Speaker 5: 3:13:05

I'm planning.

Speaker 2: 3:13:06

I'm planning my future.

Speaker 4: 3:13:07

My mom and dad did teach us you submit your plans to the Lord. That just kind of slid off of my brain so I caught the fail to plan, plan to fail and just missed the whole.

Speaker 2: 3:13:19

Submit your plans to the Lord, but God will take your plans and rework them.

Speaker 4: 3:13:24

I wasn't ready for that Come on. So I'm planning things. I'm going, okay, I'm going to do, you know, classical education and band and clarinetting and reading music in high school, and then when I get to college, I'm going to switch from my instrument, from being band, to vocals, and then I'll audition, I'll get into college because I'm good. And so I expected that to go somewhat smoothly, because up until now, vocals opened doors for me.

Speaker 1: 3:13:55

Like I say, classic education, what does that mean? Classical music. So I learned how to read music and I learned you know all the writing classical education, classically, I probably did but I'm in that musical sense um.

Speaker 4: 3:14:02

So I'm thinking, you know, in god I've had prophetic words spoken over my voice. I've had. So from my perspective, the vocal thing is the primary thing that I have.

Speaker 4: 3:14:13

It's my primary gift, um, and God must want me to to focus on this, because it comes easily to me. It opens doors for me. It's given me blessing and favor with people. I've comes easily to me. It opens doors for me. It's given me blessing and favor with people. I've been able to use it to bring christ to people around me. I'm a worship leader at my church, like everything.

Speaker 1: 3:14:33

Is that what a gift does?

Speaker 4: 3:14:34

right, right. And so I'm going, this must be what I'm supposed to do with my life. And so I get to college, I audition, and, um, I have a first round of auditions and they basically said you're a great singer, but you're not necessarily trained in classical vocalism. So, really, what then? They were telling the truth. I know how to sing. I learned, I taught most my myself, mostly, um, and they were like you, you don't know how to do opera, like the way a kid has been trained to do it.

Speaker 2: 3:15:10

You know like if you don't, and so there, there's a whole nother side of this thing.

Speaker 4: 3:15:14

There's holes and what they, what they're listening to. They're like, okay, you know, you know how to replicate the sounds, but they could tell that I hadn't been doing it long, basically. And so they're like get a vocal coach and work, basically work on these things that you've never worked on before with your gift. And so I took that was like bet, let's go, like, give me a challenge.

Speaker 2: 3:15:37

A challenge.

Speaker 4: 3:15:38

Yeah, yeah, and I am a challenger, I like to be challenged, and so um that was the difference between singing and classic vocals.

Speaker 1: 3:15:44

What's the difference?

Speaker 4: 3:15:45

between singing and classic vocals. What's the difference, like? Think of what we do at church. You know we might sing, I don't know.

Speaker 5: 3:15:53

Waymaker.

Speaker 4: 3:15:55

Waymaker, Miracle Worker, Someone who's singing operatically, it's going to sound different, and the vocal tone the way you say, the vowels the way you project when you project the amount of emotion you might put in something. It's a different experience if you go to the opera and you hear the way they sing in the opera versus how you might hear someone sing acoustically with a guitar on a microphone. Wow, a lot different. And it's the same as somebody playing, you know, r&b with the bass.

Speaker 1: 3:16:28

I just like singing, singing. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, it's not it's, it's a talent.

Speaker 2: 3:16:34

It's, like you said, a different atmosphere it's a different atmosphere.

Speaker 4: 3:16:37

Atmospheres are set in different kinds of settings and your voice is a instrument yeah it is an instrument and and and it's a muscle, Just like your fingers would be with guitars. So you learn how to do different skills.

Speaker 1: 3:16:50

I know I see those ladies hitting those voice and their throats are all like, oh God, you got a massive throat. Oh yeah, their muscles. You know what I mean when they sing and it's like this muscle flexes. You're like good God, lady.

Speaker 4: 3:17:01

Yeah, but God lady, yeah, but to me. I'm so passionate about it because it's one of the few instruments we have that actually utilizes your breath to make the sound it's so good.

Speaker 4: 3:17:11

And so, just like, and when you think about the breath of God and what he was able, to do with the breath of God, I am creating atmospheres in the earth with my breath Come on, man Like, and with the sound coming out of my mouth, like what? And so anyway, don't get me on that, but anyway, and so I'm thinking this is going to be an easy transition and it's not so. They basically said you can audition again, but no, wow, go get some.

Speaker 2: 3:17:34

Some work, some classical training.

Speaker 4: 3:17:37

And I was like okay, fine, I found a vocal coach and a pianist and I started working on some opera stuff. I actually learned a lot. I know how to sing some not everything but I can sing in Italian and I can sing in French and learned how to do opera.

Speaker 2: 3:17:53

That's cool Wow.

Speaker 4: 3:17:55

Oui, but not a lot.

Speaker 1: 3:17:57

That's the only words I know.

Speaker 4: 3:17:59

I know more German than I do French and more Spanish than German Fine fine dry, I don't know, C'est sprecato.

Speaker 5: 3:18:05

French and more Spanish than German. Eins, zwei, drei, I don't know, es ist brechertisch.

Speaker 4: 3:18:08

My name is Muther, I know little things. I took German in college Cool Runnings.

Speaker 1: 3:18:12

I learned German Cool.

Speaker 4: 3:18:13

Runnings. I have that movie too. That's so crazy.

Speaker 1: 3:18:16

The guy's teaching them.

Speaker 5: 3:18:17

Yes, Eins zwei, drei.

Speaker 4: 3:18:21

Get on up, it's bobsled time. Anyway. Get on up, it's bobsled time Anyway.

Speaker 2: 3:18:29

Jamaica got a bobsled team. If you don't know that movie, it's an old one Go watch it.

Speaker 5: 3:18:31

It's an old one, john Candy, right? Yeah, yeah man.

Speaker 4: 3:18:34

So anyway I worked hard. Yeah, to be good enough. Yeah, and I auditioned again and they're like, wow, you improved.

Speaker 3: 3:18:44

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 3:18:46

Not this year, because they only, they only open auditions so many times in a school year because you know kids got to start classes and stuff, and so I. That was my second big rejection. It was Arizona Idol, and now I've been rejected again by. Asu and and in Dallas stuff would just happen. It's like I can't seem to break through.

Speaker 4: 3:19:06

Like what is what's going on, and so I'm upset again. Different type of music maybe Well, it's definitely it was it. I don't know for sure, but I think the real thing is there were a lot of kids auditioning to be in the Herberger College of Fine Arts, yeah, and I didn't have all, is that in dallas or here? That's here that's asu's college for the herberger herberger

Speaker 4: 3:19:30

I think it was herberger college of fine arts at the time. They may have changed it or herberger maybe but there's a walter cronkite school of journalism yeah, so every school, like they have the mary lou fulton teachers college and then they have the herberger herberger herberger college of Fine Arts and then the Walter Cronkite all the different schools technically have names, so there are a lot of kids from all over the United States that are trying to get in.

Speaker 4: 3:19:57

I'm trying to get in with no recommendations on an instrument that I have no proof I can use if I wanted to get in easily. I would have had to play clarinet recommendations on an instrument that I have no proof I can use If I wanted to get in easily. I would have had to play clarinet.

Speaker 1: 3:20:12

Wow, and I was done with it.

Speaker 4: 3:20:13

The plan was not to keep playing the clarinet for the rest of my life. You know like and I was just like okay, so I got a little upset with the Lord because he wasn't following my plan.

Speaker 1: 3:20:23

Yeah, Um, and I was just like this is what I'm so glad you said it that way.

Speaker 4: 3:20:26

Yeah, he wasn't following my plan and I told him. I was like Lord, this is what I figured out and you could have spoke up at any point when I was doing all this and you didn't, I took silence for agreement. What is going on? You know, and I think a lot of us as Christians, we do that.

Speaker 5: 3:20:43

We take silence from the Lord for agreement and and because I thought you didn't oppose any of it.

Speaker 4: 3:20:48

So I thought this was the plan, and the Lord's probably just looking at me.

Speaker 2: 3:20:51

I didn't say yes.

Speaker 4: 3:20:53

I didn't say yes, I didn't put my glory on it. You never actually asked me.

Speaker 2: 3:20:58

You had already determined in your heart.

Speaker 4: 3:21:00

You're doing this Right, but of course, I'm salty, um, and at this point we're, we're here in Arizona, we're going to Christ life church, so, um, we yeah so we moved from Texas and we are living in Gilbert, but Mike Hayes, my pastor, lead lead pastor in Texas, is his wife, I believe was related to the Rome's, who are the pastors over Christ's life.

Speaker 1: 3:21:27

So when we were leaving Dallas.

Speaker 4: 3:21:29

My mom, and for all of you that ever have to transition churches, learn from what my parents did. My mom went to her lead pastors even though we went to a church of thousands and they probably did not know her from Adam right she went to them and said we are moving from here to Arizona. Do you have any recommendations on?

Speaker 2: 3:21:46

churches that we could go to.

Speaker 4: 3:21:48

They didn't know any churches in Arizona. But Pastor Kathy Hayes, she was like well, I have family distant. I think they were distant relatives, she's like, but I think they passed her out there and she gave the name of the church and it was Christ Life and that was the first church we tried. And it just turned out to be our church. So I've been at Christ Life since my junior year in high school.

Speaker 4: 3:22:09

I'm now in college, but my senior year in high school, as I was ending my senior year, that's when Pastor Jim Rome, the lead pastor at Christ Life, was getting sick with this one in one million heart condition that just hit everybody sideways. And these, um, my youth pastors at Christ life were Doug and Lori Inquist, and um, they were, you know, they were carrying the worship ministry and the youth ministry, um, and so then the church brings in these two people we don't know called pastor.

Speaker 4: 3:22:42

They were Dave and Cherie Wright, and they have this sweet little redhead girl who's like a preteen yeah and um. So I'm in high school, I'm ending high school, and they're, they're coming, and one night, you know, it's youth ministry night and I'm still helping lead worship you know, because I've found my way onto the worship team there and I would help sing on sunday mornings where, uh, youth ministry happened.

Speaker 4: 3:23:03

On wednesday, sunday morning was sunday morning and, um, this cute, this cute girl named lazy comes in and she's checking it out and standing around and and I have no idea the amount of relationship that's about to happen between these three people that came from texas but, we connect because pastor sheree and pastor Dave have come from Texas and only like two years after we did.

Speaker 4: 3:23:28

And so they were like Dallas. I'm like, yeah, I know Dallas, yeah, I know Frisco, yeah, I know Plano. Oh, they knew Carrollton, they knew my, you know the church. And so there's just this boom synergy of like, oh, A connection A connection, and then so.

Speaker 1: 3:23:41

Familiarity.

Speaker 4: 3:23:46

And. Lacey and my sister, alicia, are closer in age and so they, I think, hit it off a little bit more. I was. I loved Lacey, but I was a little older. I was in a different season. I'm graduating from high school. You know, we weren't on the same plane yet as far as life goes. But so I'm at Christ Life and I'm growing and I'm not getting into the music college that I want to get into.

Speaker 4: 3:24:11

And going and I'm not getting into the music college that I want to get into and I'm just like I don't want to be in college for no reason, like, okay, I don't want, I'm gonna do this. I mean, why am?

Speaker 1: 3:24:15

I doing this right, right, and it costs money like I don't.

Speaker 2: 3:24:16

I'm not rich, and I don't mind being rich, but I'm not gonna get rich by just trying to figure it out this way, taking more debt and more loans so I terrified my parents and I dropped out.

Speaker 4: 3:24:25

Really, I withdrew. School wasn't going great. School had been going great for me up until college. I had my first F in a science class. I wasn't getting into the music college. I didn't really like. You know the whole experience.

Speaker 2: 3:24:40

There ain't friends, you're just driving there. I don't have friends. I'm driving from school, so I don't have friends.

Speaker 4: 3:24:43

I'm driving from school, so I don't have a college life. No community, I don't have community and the community I did have randomly showed me porn.

Speaker 5: 3:24:52

You know Jesus.

Speaker 4: 3:24:55

I'm just like.

Speaker 2: 3:24:56

Him dang football boys.

Speaker 4: 3:24:57

Right, so I'm just like, you know what, I'm good. I'm good on college. I'm thinking I'm going to do this whole, I'm going to go indie music artist, I'm going to figure it out.

Speaker 2: 3:25:08

So still music, oh yeah.

Speaker 4: 3:25:10

Still music.

Speaker 2: 3:25:11

You'll stop college and quit that, but I ain't giving up music. I'm stubborn. Okay, the Lord knows it.

Speaker 4: 3:25:17

So he lets me hit my head a few times, and then I look up and he's like are you ready to? Talk, and then we talk and so I'm not letting go of music. But honestly that's because I don't know what else to grab. And the Lord did tell me I had other gifts all those years ago. But he hasn't revealed necessarily what they are, and the only other gift I know I have is seeing in the spirit which I asked him to stop over and over again.

Speaker 1: 3:25:43

And in his grace he did. Do you think that's because that's the only gift that people spoke into you?

Speaker 4: 3:25:46

Of course, Now at 30-something years old yes, that was the only gift.

Speaker 1: 3:25:51

That was confirmed or affirmed.

Speaker 4: 3:25:54

That was confirmed over and over and over again I believe my parents were pointing out other gifts. But it's hard to hear, yeah, when the world is screaming loudly and clapping loudly at something and someone is speaking softly about something else, your attention is just averted and as a child, as a young person, you're drawn to what is loud.

Speaker 3: 3:26:19

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 3:26:19

You just are. You're just drawn to what's loud in your life.

Speaker 4: 3:26:22

And so I think, and because music, music came so easy, it just made more sense that I could build my life around it. I other things I'd have to fight for yeah and so I'm like this is easy for me, I'm good at it, people like my voice.

Speaker 1: 3:26:38

You know it'd be different if I had a voice that people didn't want to listen to, but they actually like my voice.

Speaker 4: 3:26:43

I like my voice. And whitney houston, mariah carey, brandy, like I, I can. I can go toe-to-toe with a lot of these women. I know I can make money, yeah. So what's the problem? Like you know why. Why would I look for anything else? Um, god, in his grace, did not allow me to do that, because he built me for more.

Speaker 3: 3:27:07

I just didn't know it yet.

Speaker 4: 3:27:08

And so I drop out of high school.

Speaker 1: 3:27:12

I feel that gift was for him.

Speaker 5: 3:27:15

Oh, it is.

Speaker 1: 3:27:16

And his house it is, and if it would have went the way that you had planned, we would not be sitting here right now.

Speaker 4: 3:27:24

Absolutely not. Honestly, guys, if it went the way I had planned, it would have ruined you.

Speaker 1: 3:27:26

I would not be sitting here right now. Absolutely not. Honestly, guys, if it went the way I had planned, that would have ruined you, I would not be alive.

Speaker 2: 3:27:30

Yeah, I don't think you'd have Troy or the girls man.

Speaker 4: 3:27:32

No, it would have ruined you, it would have completely ruined me, because the devil had already put things in place. I didn't have the strength that that industry would have just destroyed you.

Speaker 1: 3:27:41

Oh, yeah, yeah, destroyed you, oh yeah, the perversion and the sexual part of that industry.

Speaker 2: 3:27:45

Well, that my God.

Speaker 4: 3:27:46

That, but not that. Yes, but then on another layer, the, the people in my family, distant relatives, that would have latched on.

Speaker 3: 3:28:00

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 3:28:01

And all that they would have brought.

Speaker 1: 3:28:03

Not my immediate family I'm not talking about my parents, my sister or anything like that the ones that know that they got a cousin or somebody who's famous. Now, that's made it.

Speaker 4: 3:28:08

That's made it and I, not mature in my Christian thinking, would have felt like well, this is part of what God wants me to do to reach my? Family. You know like I would have been ruined. You're a giver, I am a giver, I am a giver and yes, so my plan's not going well and God, in his grace, is holding his ground.

Speaker 3: 3:28:31

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 3:28:35

And I, in my foolishness, am holding mine, I'm like that too, but I'm holding mine to a degree. I don't want to be disobedient to him, but I'm just like, until you say what I'm supposed to do, I don't know what you expect me to be doing like and I'm not going to spend thousands of dollars continuing to go to college yeah just because before now my people couldn't go to college you know like this like that's, I need you, and so for me it really was a season of when God goes quiet and Christians if you haven't had that season.

Speaker 4: 3:29:13

But there are silent seasons from the Lord where he doesn't say much. And I didn't really know what to do with that. So I'm like well, you're telling me my plan isn't the plan, but you're not, you're not laying out the plan for me.

Speaker 1: 3:29:31

And so I don't know what to do and the lord, and it's more or less like we're not going to talk about it.

Speaker 4: 3:29:33

Yeah, I'm god, I have a plan, yeah follow me, come on, that's good and I'm like follow you where. And he's like we're not gonna talk about it. I'm god, I have the plan, follow me and I I am a need to know kind of person like this is not my gift and so I'm frustrated with the lord, but I'm also really, really hard, trying hard to figure out how to obey him yeah and I'm in a season where his voice is not presenting itself the way it has before.

Speaker 4: 3:29:56

So I'm really confused and, um, and I know he's there, I can sense him, but he's not talking much and I I'm just like dude, like, and, with all due respect to the King, of. Kings and Lord of Lords.

Speaker 2: 3:30:09

I'm like, dude, I need you. No, that's real, Pastor Ashley, I have the same. It's like where you can get real with God. He can take it.

Speaker 4: 3:30:17

And in those moments the enemy loves to just turn up.

Speaker 1: 3:30:21

And so what am I hearing?

Speaker 4: 3:30:23

College isn't for you. You make it big. If you just quit staying in church, you know you're wasting all your time.

Speaker 4: 3:30:28

You can start writing, you can start recording, you got friends, you know, and just like, ooh, and then so these. Now my pastor is sick and he's dying quickly. We've got to get new pastors to the church on and I'm going, man, my church is a mess and I'm going, man, my church is my church is a mess and I'm old enough. You know a lot of some of the other pastors that here were, that are here right now, that were there in that season. They were younger and not that they don't remember, but I'm old enough like I voted you know like, and so I'm, I'm 18, and I'm I'm in on this like an adult and my parents are going.

Speaker 4: 3:31:03

You don't have to go to Christ life. You're old enough now to choose your own church, but this is where God has called us. You need to pray and talk to the Lord and I'm like I don't know, like the man's dying, is Christ life going to be here? And so what got really confusing is Doug and Lori wanted the job, they wanted to be lead pastors and they were invested the job.

Speaker 2: 3:31:25

They wanted to be lead pastors and they were invested they had been serving here my youth pastors.

Speaker 4: 3:31:27

They were associate pastors. So I think, and I think logically, they're going well, you're bringing out on these other people, but we've been associate pastors and the worship leaders and the youth pastors all along. Give us the you know the job the job. Pastor Dave and Cherie came and they felt like they were going to say yes to this opportunity. The church, I think, was leaning a little bit more towards Pastor Dave and Cherie. I don't know why the youth were like, but Doug and Lori, like we're already underneath them, you know so.

Speaker 4: 3:32:04

I I actually voted, voted. I told I asked my parents I was like I don't know who to vote for, like I feel loyal to doug and laurie. I don't really know david and sheree. I knew lacy yeah I didn't really know pastor david and sheree yeah and so I was like, but I can sense an in a familiar, a familiar glory anointing on pastor dave and pastor sheree. That reminded me of Covenant Church.

Speaker 3: 3:32:25

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: 3:32:26

And so that was my only at the time. I was like there is something on them that I've seen before that is very unique in the earth.

Speaker 3: 3:32:32

Come on.

Speaker 4: 3:32:34

And I don't know, and so my parents were like you need to pray and vote, and so I did. I prayed and voted. I actually wound up voting for Pastor Dave and Pastor.

Speaker 5: 3:32:41

Sheree Wow.

Speaker 4: 3:32:47

But I didn't know why. Yeah, and then doug and pastor, pastors doug and laurie realized things were not going their direction I think at some point. So they left oh, wow and they broke our hearts oh wow, all of us youth. So now I'm a youth coming from that strong youth ministry I had yeah now I'm a youth with church hurt because my youth pastors left because they didn't get chosen.

Speaker 3: 3:33:05

Wow.

Speaker 4: 3:33:06

God. I didn't know God was going to build another church out of that in the West Valley called Praise City Church, but that's what, and at least that's the story that got to us. That may not have been why they left. They could have been asked to leave. They could you know whatever, but the youth were told they're gone. Yeah. And so I'm going. These are who's going to lead worship this Wednesday night.

Speaker 5: 3:33:30

These were the worship pastors, I'm only on the team, you know.

Speaker 4: 3:33:32

And so at the time, scott and D Ogles, who used to actually come to Lifelink Church for a while, Played softball with Scott.

Speaker 4: 3:33:38

Okay, so Scott stepped up as a new youth pastor over me at the time, him and his wife and they just caught us youth pastor over me at the time, him and his wife, and they just caught us. The whole youth ministry was just going to fall apart and they just caught us and he stepped in and I thank God for him. But one of the things he did was he looked at me. He was like he handed me the microphone. He was like go for it.

Speaker 1: 3:33:56

And I was just like are you serious? Like this.

Speaker 4: 3:33:59

It was blowing my mind. And so here, I am not getting into the music college, but I don't see what God is doing on the other side. I don't see it and I'm going this is I'm not. I'm not supposed to be in this spot, I'm not a pastor and I don't want to be kind of thing, and so I'm helping lead, that's funny the worst.

Speaker 2: 3:34:16

I know she's trying to do everything she can, in the world, in the world music, opening all these doors and making a way for your gift, literally handed it to me. I'll make a way for you, honey, and so I'm helping lead worship.

Speaker 4: 3:34:29

I'm leading worship with another young man who plays the guitar Guitar not guitar Guitar and he actually taught me how to play Because I was like, if I'm going to be leading, I got to do more than sing. And I can't bring the clarinet.

Speaker 3: 3:34:42

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 3:34:42

So I need another instrument, so I picked up playing guitar from him he taught me um, I'm not that great, but if, if I was in a remote place and all we had was a guitar I could make it work.

Speaker 3: 3:34:54

Yeah, right so um, that's, cool yeah, okay, a little more than that but, yeah, but uh, so I'm playing guitar, he's, I'm singing's, mostly playing.

Speaker 4: 3:35:04

We're trying to build up this band. At one point, pastor Lacey joined us. You know, as a young, as a younger one I was like I was like come on and sing with us, cause I figured out that she had a voice and that was. That's a sweet memory for me, especially getting to worship under her now as a lead worshiper here, so good.

Speaker 4: 3:35:29

I feel like the the lord. Let me be a little encourager in just a moment of her story. So, um, but at any rate, this is happening and I don't know what's going on. I'm so confused, um, but then pastor david and pastor sherry don't get the job at christ life. And yeah, in the midst of all this, I'm praying for pastor jim that he would be miraculously healed and he dies yeah and so now I'm like okay, my youth pastors are gone, the people I voted for are gone and the pastors dead yeah and I'm not getting into music college.

Speaker 4: 3:36:00

You're not talking to me about the plan for my life. What is happening?

Speaker 2: 3:36:05

yeah, it's all falling apart.

Speaker 4: 3:36:07

Yeah, and I'm a young adult, I'm like 19 18 so I'm just barely, I've just been launched into the world and everything, everything fell apart and so I'm just like, okay, okay, okay, okay, lord. So, naturally, what does the enemy do? He sends a boy, um, and the guy that was helping me learn to play the guitar.

Speaker 1: 3:36:28

Suddenly there's more interest there than just helping me play the guitar.

Speaker 4: 3:36:34

He's much older than me. My parents are vehemently against this like he's like nine years older and they're like, no Like no no. And I'm going 18.

Speaker 2: 3:36:45

Oh my God, and I haven't dated Like.

Speaker 4: 3:36:49

I didn't have boyfriends. I had the one that I should have never been talking to, but we never even went anywhere, you know. And so I'm 18 now, and this is the first real boyfriend.

Speaker 4: 3:37:01

And I've got a car. I don't work yet, but I dropped out of school and so I've got a lot of. I don't work yet, but I dropped out of school and so I've got a lot of time on my hands. My mom's like if you're going to keep living in this house, you either work or you go to school. She's like so where's your job?

Speaker 5: 3:37:12

I got a job at Walmart.

Speaker 4: 3:37:14

I worked nights at Walmart. I don't know why. I think that it was just an easy shift. I'm boxing and stuff at Walmart. Then during the day I did like what I wanted kind of and kind of worked on music kind of. Didn't my parents knew I was circling the drain? I was just like not doing well.

Speaker 4: 3:37:32

Mentally, I was starting to lose a reason to care yeah about anything, yeah, and so um you just went through a lot, man, I did internally and so, um, right around this time, what's funny is, uh, in this, in this season where I'm just spiraling, god is starting lifelink and so he's talking to pastor dave and cherie. They're getting a vision, they're starting to launch. My parents are feeling like christ life is no longer our church home, but we don't really know where to go and they're telling me you can go.

Speaker 4: 3:38:05

You can go to praise city if you want. So I decided I'm going to check out praise city because praise city has already started.

Speaker 1: 3:38:10

Where was that at?

Speaker 4: 3:38:11

Uh, west Valley, so we're talking Levine, so I'm I'm driving from Gilbert to Levine. They're the only other pastors I have relationship with. And with and lifelink is a vision right now it's not. They're not even meeting, yeah, in homes yet. Yeah, and so I'm going to prairie city and I'm learning about prairie city and reconnecting with all of the youth leaders. Yeah, that we had when doug and laura.

Speaker 1: 3:38:38

They went with doug and laura oh really so so, like all my, all my leaders and my youth pastors are there and I'm like well, maybe this is where I'm supposed to be.

Speaker 4: 3:38:46

So I'm there for a little bit and I just don't feel home. I just don't feel it. And Doug and Lori are different. They're not youth pastors anymore, they're lead pastors now. So they're operating differently. They don't have the time to sit and talk with me as a youth and all of that. And so it just felt different and so I'm frustrated. I'm like, okay, this doesn't feel like home. So I tell my parents I think I'll just go wherever you guys go, because I don't know where else to go and Gilbert isn't flush with churches at the time.

Speaker 4: 3:39:16

They're just not at least not that I knew of yeah um, we checked out Desert Springs for a little bit. I think that's where Pastor Lacey was going as a kid, and so we went there a couple of times, because I do still have a younger sister who's needing a youth ministry, and so my parents were taking her there and I would tag along and just felt like a fish out of water, because I'm not a youth you know.

Speaker 4: 3:39:39

And then Lifelink starts kicking up and my parents jump in and naturally me and my sister tagging right along.

Speaker 4: 3:39:46

So we're in on the beginning really man um of life, church and I, we were helping. Sometimes we're helping with the kids you know, here I am children's ministry and I'm I'm launched into this children's ministry? I don't really know that I'm in um but we, we move from meeting in homes to we get into cta the school and I'm still not really going to school. I'm still kind of working at walmart, but it's through arc, the um, associated relations of church.

Speaker 4: 3:40:19

I was trying to think of the name. My mom lifelink is associated with arc and my mom's like well, what is this, you know? And so she's digging into it, reading about it, and she sees that there's this program in colorado called school of worship yeah and she reads on it and she feels like the lord's, like send ashley there yeah and she brings it to me, she gives it to me.

Speaker 4: 3:40:41

She's like look, it's school of worship, they train worship leaders and they train people in ministry, and I think this is for you and I'm not in school because I've withdrawn yeah and she's like and you can do, um dual enrollment, you can get college credit if we? She was like if you apply for it, the courses you take, they'll give you college credit through king's college and seminary. And I was just like oh and, but it requires an audition and I'm full up on auditions at this point.

Speaker 4: 3:41:10

And so I'm like, fine, I'll audition, and if I get in then we can talk about it. Well, the added win was they were trying to get me away from this boy who was nine years older than me, the guitar player, yeah, so they're

Speaker 5: 3:41:21

kind of sending me to Colorado and I can feel that.

Speaker 4: 3:41:24

But I'm not, I'm fine and so I I they didn't expect me. I have to have an audition. I don't have recording equipment. I've got to record myself and send a tape to Colorado. Well, he has a studio in his apartment. He plays guitar, yes, he has a studio in his apartment.

Speaker 4: 3:41:41

He plays guitar, he has recording equipment because he's more like he had a band you know growing up and when he was younger, in high school, so he knows more of this stuff and naturally I'm like, hey, help me out. Like I got to do an audition tape. He's like, oh, yeah, I got you. So he plays the guitar on my tape and he helps record and all this stuff. I don't know that really, what God intended was for us to be friends and for me to teach him what I know about the word. What the enemy intended was for us to become an item.

Speaker 3: 3:42:10

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 3:42:11

And so some of that blended. I was, he was new to Christ and I was teaching him things out of the word, but because of that there was emotions and there was relationship and there wasn't an.

Speaker 3: 3:42:22

He needed to get that get a start from me and then get connected with other men.

Speaker 4: 3:42:31

I didn't know that you could fall in love with somebody when they're opening you up to the word of God, and so I'm thinking we're okay, you know, we're just we connect about the word and he likes me and it's very intimate, very intimate and my parents were like, be careful, you know they're telling me, but I don't know. You don't know what you don't know.

Speaker 1: 3:42:45

That's why men minister to men. Women, women with women, well, yeah, especially if you're single.

Speaker 4: 3:42:49

Yeah, but when you got a kid who doesn't know more and a man who'd never been saved before you're like it's a bad combination it is yeah.

Speaker 4: 3:42:57

And so we got too close for it to just be platonic friendship. It was becoming a relationship. So I didn't know, after he helped me with my audition tape, that he auditioned for a school of worship. We both got in, and so I'm going to Colorado and I'm like. I'm going, I got in and he was like oh yeah. And then he tells me like a week later I got in too and my parents are like what.

Speaker 2: 3:43:22

They're not happy, we're literally trying to send you another state to get him away from.

Speaker 4: 3:43:31

Get you away from him, and now he's following you up there yes, and so and that's crazy he's a middle school science teacher, so he quits his job.

Speaker 1: 3:43:39

Oh jesus to go do school but he's great and he's great at music, and he's finding a passion for ministry that he didn't have before. So I do think God had a plan for him.

Speaker 4: 3:43:49

I just don't think I was supposed to be, intimately connected to this. So we both go to Colorado. I'm there. It's a 10 month program, so I'm there for 10 months and I'm learning a lot about leading worship. I'm learning a lot about ministry. This is where I'm learning to clean toilets, to serve in kids' ministry, to say yes when you want to say no, because God is saying say yes.

Speaker 1: 3:44:13

The real part of ministry that's real, the part that people don't want to talk about, the sacrifice.

Speaker 4: 3:44:19

What it looks like to clean ice and snow off your car. At 6 in the mornings you can get to church to open things for ministry moments that are going to happen two hours later you know, like that kind of stuff.

Speaker 3: 3:44:32

It's good.

Speaker 4: 3:44:33

And I wasn't. It wasn't new to me, but it was different, doing it when you're out from underneath the covering of your parents and doing it as a young adult and you're responsible for yourself. I lived with a host family or host one. Her name is Miss Wanda. She's amazing. She was a missionary to Africa, so she had so many stories. She taught me so much about discernment.

Speaker 4: 3:44:55

I had it but I hadn't been using it well, and so discernment and just honesty and accountability, and um, living above reproach it just that not not what is sin and what isn't sin, but not that, not that line of how far can I go, god, before I'm sinning versus the compromise?

Speaker 2: 3:45:16

How close?

Speaker 4: 3:45:16

can.

Speaker 1: 3:45:17

I be to God where sin isn't, even on my mind, you know, like that's just the difference in the perspective. Um so mindset, yeah, yeah, so she instilled a lot into me.

Speaker 4: 3:45:26

That was already there but they were seeds that I wasn't tending yeah and so she helped me tend those seeds and stuff that god had planted.

Speaker 3: 3:45:33

Oh yeah, come on um.

Speaker 4: 3:45:35

So I grew a lot and did a lot, worshiped a lot, led worship a lot um in that school yes in the program program. So the school of worship was at New Life Church.

Speaker 2: 3:45:47

Yeah, it's a big church. It's a huge church in Colorado. They're doing things.

Speaker 4: 3:45:51

The thing was I was there the year. Their lead pastor, ted Haggard, had a very public fall.

Speaker 3: 3:46:00

Oh, wow.

Speaker 4: 3:46:01

And it was because of sexual sin. Oh, wow. So he was a big figure in Colorado. He was a big figure publicly and politically in Colorado. It was a political election year for them and there was a man. This is all. I'm not revealing anything. It was all in the news, y'all. So, there was a man that he was having a secret relationship with for many years that he had denied publicly several times, but I guess one of those times the man recorded him and timed his moment well yeah and halloween weekend revealed oh, wow that, pastor ted, was not everything he said he was and and had had been purchasing uh the hand drugs to enhance the experience and then also engaging in sexual relationship with another man.

Speaker 4: 3:46:52

This pastor ted was married and had like five kids and this whole church was a church he planted, god, and so the fallout from this coming out on the radio was massive.

Speaker 3: 3:47:06

And here.

Speaker 4: 3:47:07

I am an intern under his ministry.

Speaker 3: 3:47:10

Oh, wow.

Speaker 4: 3:47:12

And I've only been there for like three months. Oh, Jesus and so I'm like I don't know if this internship is going to continue.

Speaker 3: 3:47:17

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 3:47:19

What's going to happen to the church? The church was set up well with all the checks and balances of this type of thing, where the board and the leadership came in and they carry things well and they put covered and protect. Everything was done in excellence that I could see.

Speaker 3: 3:47:33

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 3:47:34

But I was terrified because, I still have this secret struggle.

Speaker 3: 3:47:38

Oh.

Speaker 4: 3:47:39

And this man has just been outed publicly, come on. And I knew enough about the Lord to know that what's in the dark doesn't stay in the dark forever, and so I'm going, okay yeah just don't do that to me like, just don't like. I will do whatever. I will give up, whatever I will, fast I will, but I, I don't care just don't do that to me, don't.

Speaker 4: 3:48:03

Don't expose you don't have to expose me yeah to get to me just like that's real, and but I was scared, I was scared and so and I'm looking at his family fall apart and I know we're not struggling with the same thing, but I know what I'm struggling with is is not healthy yeah and I haven't asked for help and I haven't confessed it to anyone.

Speaker 3: 3:48:24

Yeah hello somebody.

Speaker 4: 3:48:25

And so he eventually does share that, his mistakes, where he was hiding it, and he's saying things yeah, that his reasoning, his logic, and I'm going oh, I got to talk to somebody, wow, and that's the last thing on earth I want to do yeah, and. I feel the Lord going. You do or I do. Yeah blessing on earth. I want to do and I feel the lord going.

Speaker 5: 3:48:49

You do or I do, yeah, it's up to you, oh jesus and I was like okay, okay, like okay, I'll figure this out, I'm gonna figure this out.

Speaker 4: 3:48:53

I'm freaking out I am freaking like completely because I'm like god, I know you love me and I know you only do things that, but this is breaking my heart like please don't like. We can solve it between me and you, we can do this between me and you, you, god you know, like what is it? And he's like no either. You and he kept bringing the scripture, confess your sins one to another and, and I'm like nobody wants to hear this- what's the second part of that?

Speaker 2: 3:49:18

confess your faults one to another and pray for each other so that you might be healed.

Speaker 4: 3:49:22

Yes, I knew the healing part.

Speaker 1: 3:49:24

You know that's the only verse in the Bible that says confession says unto God for salvation. That's the only place in the Bible that says confession says one to another. So you pray for each other and be healed.

Speaker 2: 3:49:35

Be healed Yep.

Speaker 1: 3:49:36

Every other. Confessing is for salvation. I'll be honest with you or forgiveness, or for forgiveness.

Speaker 4: 3:49:41

At the time I did not care.

Speaker 2: 3:49:42

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 3:49:44

I was like who can I possibly tell?

Speaker 2: 3:49:47

what I'm doing. Oh, I mean God, you spoke the universe into existence.

Speaker 4: 3:49:52

You can heal me on your own.

Speaker 1: 3:49:54

We don't have to do it this way.

Speaker 4: 3:49:56

That's where I was at. I'm just being honest. It's real man, but the Lord was holding his ground.

Speaker 2: 3:50:02

Yeah. Again in his grace and his mercy towards me. You tell somebody, or I?

Speaker 4: 3:50:05

will Right, because this is I am now a young adult, I'm closer to 20, and I've been struggling with this since middle school.

Speaker 3: 3:50:12

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 3:50:13

So God's like?

Speaker 2: 3:50:15

no, it's time to deal with this. Yeah, no more. Yeah.

Speaker 4: 3:50:18

And so I told one of the, I confessed my not to a leader.

Speaker 1: 3:50:23

I decided to confess to a peer yeah, oh no um, god covered it because I technically obeyed, so I think I don't recommend this.

Speaker 4: 3:50:32

I don't but in my situation it worked well for me. Um her. Her name was laurel. She was a beautiful, sweet girl. She was part of the program with me. I felt safer confessing to someone that I might never see again after we ended the program than confessing to someone who would have to write a recommendation letter, possibly, to whether or not I was going to be a worship leader for another church you know, and so I was like, if you're going to tell me to do it, I get to choose who I'm talking to.

Speaker 4: 3:51:00

And so I talked to her, and what was crazy is she looked at me and started crying, and she was like me too oh god, I love and then I started bawling, oh yeah, and I was like did you even know girls could do this? And she was like no one told me girls could do this she was like I thought only boys could do. I said me too, yeah. And I was like how did we figure this out?

Speaker 3: 3:51:24

if no one's telling us and she was just like I know.

Speaker 4: 3:51:27

And then she was like um, and she said, well, I haven't. She was like I shared it with my mom. She's like my mom's a counselor, a professional counselor. She's like so I felt safe sharing with my mom and she said my mom gave me this book and she pulls it out of her purse. She's like I don't know why I've been carrying it around. Oh, my god.

Speaker 4: 3:51:44

And so she hands me this book and she's like you need to read this book, she said. It didn't solve everything right away, she said, but it helped me understand what I'm dealing with because I honestly didn't know yeah, I just knew I had these desires, that I didn't know what else to do with, and they wouldn't leave me alone until I did what they wanted. Wow, that's real and so I was like okay, and it, there was scripture in it.

Speaker 2: 3:52:05

What was the name of the book?

Speaker 4: 3:52:06

I wish I could remember, because eventually I met another girl who was struggling with the same thing and I gave her the book and I shouldn't have. I should have bought her her own. I should have kept it, so I could keep it for my girls one day.

Speaker 5: 3:52:20

But he will.

Speaker 4: 3:52:21

Thank you, I can see the picture of it, I just can't see the title. But bring it back, you will. He will um, but she hands me this book and I devoured that book. I devoured it. There was scripture, there was understanding, there was was it a woman's book? It was designed for women who struggle with this.

Speaker 2: 3:52:39

Oh my god, there's one men have.

Speaker 4: 3:52:42

It's every man's battle it wasn't every woman's battle. I have read that okay but it was.

Speaker 2: 3:52:45

It was something about pearls. It's every man's battle.

Speaker 4: 3:52:46

It wasn't every woman's battle. I have read that Okay, but it was. It was something about pearls is like don't.

Speaker 1: 3:52:49

Don't cast your pearls or something like that.

Speaker 4: 3:52:52

That scripture was in there but it was more or less. You are not a man, so while you are struggling with masturbation, your struggle is not physical, your struggle is mental. Wow, and I needed someone to tell me that because I was fighting the physical, but I'm like I'm not going to do it, I'm not going to do it.

Speaker 2: 3:53:10

I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do it.

Speaker 4: 3:53:11

Meanwhile, I'm playing with the imagination the whole time.

Speaker 2: 3:53:15

Fantasy.

Speaker 4: 3:53:16

Oh God, yes, and so yeah, and so they they helped me fight in the right arena, because I was. I was fighting on the wrong arena and so I I got understanding the scriptures scriptures that went with the right and so it was like you know, casting down imaginations, I learned that is not just for spiritual stuff, like demonic work you're helping people right now casting down imaginations, ladies. If you're watching movies, if you're reading books and your mind is building these scenes, you are entertaining spiritual warfare that will maybe depends on you, but it can reach into your brain and then cause your body to act, and so that's what was happening to me.

Speaker 4: 3:54:00

I was engaging ideas and engaging thoughts and playing with ideas in my mind and then suddenly my body's responding. That is a God given physical response, but it's supposed to be in the confines of marriage, and what? I was doing was ruining the playing field for my husband, cause he can't compete with what my imagination can do, and so dang do Amen, and so Dang man.

Speaker 4: 3:54:29

Right, and I didn't really. I'm thinking, I'm just struggling with the outward expression, wow, and what I'm doing is ruining my concept of when my husband does that thing. That's romantic. I've already imagined something that's so fantastical that he can't even measure up to that.

Speaker 1: 3:54:49

And then it won't do what it's supposed to. It turns into disappointment.

Speaker 4: 3:54:52

It won't turn me on. Or I'm making him. Well, can you do this?

Speaker 2: 3:54:58

Can you do that? Can you? You know?

Speaker 4: 3:55:02

And so it is, in a way, porn. The same effect that porn would have on men, yeah, um, it can.

Speaker 4: 3:55:13

Our, our women, our imaginations are powerful and it's a powerful tool, so are men's I know I'm not taking that away from you guys, but like, but in, in all honesty, we downplay or maybe we haven't really truly been taught, as women, how important our minds are, and how important and how God has made our minds when it comes to sexual behavior, and so I was already losing a fight that I didn't even know I was in, so God was like speak up and then he gets this book in my hands and I read the book and now I'm able to, now I'm able to pray prayers that are actually. Yeah, I'm praying prayers targeted at the right thing.

Speaker 1: 3:55:58

And I'm starting to get.

Speaker 4: 3:55:59

I'm starting to see freedom, I'm starting to take steps. It took, it still took a while because I again, I had built up dopamine responses I had built up habits.

Speaker 2: 3:56:09

Look at you, go friend, I'm having to, I'm having to break chains now, even though now I know where the chains are coming from.

Speaker 4: 3:56:17

I still got to break them and so and well the Lord broke them but I have to pray in faith believing in the war too, but now for the first time in so many years, I'm actually believing for it. Wow, because I'm not losing anymore.

Speaker 3: 3:56:31

I can see that.

Speaker 4: 3:56:32

I'm winning a little bit.

Speaker 3: 3:56:33

Hallelujah.

Speaker 4: 3:56:35

And so You're fighting. Yes, so I'm becoming a worship leader, but I'm on the other end. I'm fighting for my freedom.

Speaker 3: 3:56:42

Wow.

Speaker 4: 3:56:42

And what it's doing is making me more powerful in my ability to lead people in worship. You're walking in freedom, Well.

Speaker 2: 3:56:51

I'm walking in freedom, but I also understand what fight is no-transcript.