SpeakLifeAZ
The testimony of Jesus in, with, and through everyday people like us. A father and son who were addicts for over 20 yrs. You name it, WE DID IT, TOGETHER!!!! we used to use drugs together now we share about what God Has done for us to encourage the body of Christ and anyone else who may listen to this that is feeling hopeless and empty. LISTEN TO OUR STORY...and the testimony of others who feel led to share with you.... GOD BLESS YOU....TODAY WE CHOOSE TO SPEAK LIFE AZ!!!!!!!!!!
SpeakLifeAZ
Abel A. Testimony #1
Have you ever wondered if God still performs miracles or speaks directly to people today? Abel's extraordinary testimony will challenge your skepticism and ignite your faith as he shares true supernatural encounters that defy conventional explanation.
From being miraculously healed of an incurable bone disease as a child to physically touching Jesus during a face-to-face encounter, Abel's life story reads like a modern-day book of Acts. When doctors diagnosed him with Leg Prothesis Disease at age five, they said he would never walk normally again. Yet after prayer, he woke up completely healed—a fact confirmed by medical x-rays that showed perfectly formed bones where deterioration had been just days before.
This healing proved to be just the beginning. Abel takes us through his journey as a professional BMX racer, his divine call to Russia during the fall of communism where he witnessed extraordinary healings and conversions, and his most incredible experience—a night when Jesus physically appeared in his home. With remarkable detail, he describes holding Jesus' ankles, flying through the air with Him, and receiving personal counsel that would guide his future ministry.
But Abel's testimony isn't just about mountain-top experiences. With raw honesty, he shares the valleys of his journey—growing up in an abusive home, navigating church politics, experiencing painful divorce, and rebuilding his life. Through every trial, the consistent thread has been God's faithfulness and supernatural confirmation at critical moments.
For anyone questioning if the supernatural power of God is still active today, Abel's story offers compelling evidence that Jesus remains the same yesterday, today, and forever (Hebrews 13:8). His testimony will leave you examining your own life for divine encounters you might have missed and hungry for a deeper, more authentic relationship with God.
all right, everybody. Welcome back to the speak life az podcast testimony of jesus and everyday people. I'm your host, eddie, and always with me is my son, ratty. Jesus, what up, dude?
Speaker 2:I just realized, dude, we're the blues brothers, the blues, we're on a mission from god and we can't be stopped. Bro, we're both wearing blue you need the suits with the shades. How was your day, bro?
Speaker 1:It was all right, it was busy.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was cold this morning man. Yeah, it's been weird, man Loved it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, amen, I was hoodie and sweatpants today, baby. You got to enjoy it, bud, because we're in AZ. We're getting ready to get 150.
Speaker 1:I did enjoy it with a yeah, that's right man.
Speaker 2:I was here cleaning up man getting dude, there's a big old coffee spot. I was like, oh wow, oh nice. Better take care of the floor, man.
Speaker 1:Take care of.
Speaker 2:God's house, bro, that was a big day. Yeah, dude, I'm excited man, it's going to be a great day. Ready for this one, bro Dude, I've been. Yes, I'm ready for this. Thank you, Jesus, there is a miracle working God.
Speaker 1:Let's get to it. Man, Who'd you bring with?
Speaker 2:you, dude, we got our brother Abel. How you doing, friend? Hello, hello Rabbi, what's going?
Speaker 1:on buddy.
Speaker 2:Rabbi, I love it. Pastor, I'm doing well Doing well.
Speaker 1:God made it very clear to us that when one of his kids give us their yes, to honor them. So we just want to take a moment and honor you for your willingness to come on and share your story, cause we've had people that we've asked come on and they're private or they don't feel like they have a story. So every time we get someone that does say, yes, man, it's very it's, it's cool. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2:Cause I mean we all got a story, no matter who we are, it's always cool but we want to honor you.
Speaker 4:Thank you for much.
Speaker 2:All right. So for me personally, friend dang dude, why am I going to cry? Because you're a cry baby Shut up dad.
Speaker 5:We need some tissues on this dude.
Speaker 2:No, bro, I have that effect on people. If I'm being real and I'm being honest and I'm being serious man.
Speaker 2:Please, when I got out of rehab and I first showed up to lifelink and I was, I didn't know who I was or what I was doing. Bud, you literally gave me an opportunity. Man, I remember that with the pools bro. Yeah, when nobody wanted me and nobody there, there was you and you were like dude, I'll give you some pools, man, and for me that may have been something real little for you, but for me. But I was just trying to find my way out of addiction. I had no idea what I was doing or where I was going. I was just trying to be good.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And you gave me something that it was a little bit of purpose, it was a little bit of it's where I started to learn to tithe, Even though it was 50 bucks here, 50 bucks there, it was five bucks. And I was like, yes, dude, God, I'm giving you your five bucks. So for me it's just yeah, you really you got a special place in my heart, man, and our lunches that we used to do, and our dinner and movie nights. Bro, we need to go see Warfare man, let's go see it.
Speaker 5:It's out now. I think it is. Yeah, it is. I heard it's really good.
Speaker 2:So let me After this podcast let's do it. I love this guy man.
Speaker 2:We've got mom waiting at home, we got to move a couch. But, uh, let me pray real quick, man, we'll kind of get into this thing. Let's get it. Um, jesus man, holy spirit, thank you, lord. Oh god, I just thank you that it's always in your timing. Yeah, when you want things done, they get done. Yeah, um, I just pray for my brother right now, god, and uh, just clarity in his words. Um, holy spirit, bring back the remembrance. What needs to be shared today. God, um, we just give him to you and we thank you that you're going to use his words.
Speaker 2:Um, this story that's getting ready to get shared for whoever's going to listen, whoever's going to watch. God, we thank you for the anointing that's on it from the kingdom of God. Lord, people are getting ready to be like wow, I cannot believe you did that, just through all his different things that you have done in his life. I thank you for all the different doors, but, god, you're not done. There's more. So I pray, god, just for a hope and an encouragement, not just for the listener and the viewer, but for us as well, god, because as long as we're breathing, you've got purpose for our lives. So we just pray, holy Spirit, have your way In Jesus' name, amen, amen. So when God kind of gave this to us man, it was 2020, covid. You know he seemed to give a lot of people podcasts in COVID. Gave me more pools during that.
Speaker 5:My business exploded.
Speaker 2:It took us a few years to get going, man, because we kind of made it ours and what we wanted to do, and it was not at all what God told us to do when we sat down the Speak Life AZ podcast, the testimony of Jesus and everyday people. Doesn't matter if you're like yourself, man, and flying all over the country taking pictures of beautiful chicks, or like like dad man out at the muffler shop and welding on cars and greasy hands and bloody knuckles, you know, or myself, windows and floors and bathrooms, and we've all got a story, man. We're all everyday people, yeah, um, and I think that god really uses these testimonies for people to really encourage them and let them know, man, to stir their faith. And at the same time, there's probably people here, pastor Abel, that have known you and seen you with a camera or in different places on.
Speaker 2:Sundays, you know Thales, but they don't actually know you. Sundays, you know fails, but they don't actually know you. Yeah, so that's what's really cool about this and the the life linkers is we are getting to know one another through this podcast. So I mean, if that's all this is for man, praise God for us just to get closer and bond, to get tighter. You know what I'm saying. But really, man, all we want to know is who is able. We want to know where you were born. All we want to know is who is able. We want to know, um, where you were born. We want to know what was life like growing up.
Speaker 2:Okay, um, are you, are you the only son? Or you got brothers and sisters? Um, mom and dad, what? What was your relationship like with your parents? School, school, man, well, god, sport was god, was god in the home or is that just? Was it a religious thing that you guys did um sports, like dad was saying man, any, I know you, I know you bmx bro, so get into that. Yeah, buddy, okay, um, but I think I think me and dad and working, working with people in recovery and stuff, um, I i't know a lot about your, your past, but if you have any of the, the childhood traumas or anything like that, a lot of times that kind of stuff really sets you off course in life.
Speaker 2:But with you and what you've done, I'm sure you've probably gone through a lot of healing and a lot of growth in your life and maturity. Um so, but any of that, but really, um, I think the coolest part of this podcast, man, is your personal encounter with god, because dad god met dad in a prison cell in tucson. Yeah, mine was at 1515 west grand avenue in teen challenge, at a three-foot blue altar on the right side next to the six-foot sub. I mean, I still know right where I was when it happened, man, I know where that's at, you know so it.
Speaker 2:We want to know your encounter when, when god just became so real to you. Okay, and and it's different for everybody, they can happen over a series of events. Some people it's a one-time. Mine was August 26, 2014. That was the day my whole life changed.
Speaker 2:So we want to know your encounter with God. And then, if you go through scriptures and you look, anybody that encountered Jesus in the Bible, things change afterwards Definitely. So we want to know, kind of, how your life started to change after your encounter with God and, like I said at the beginning, man, when I was praying you're still young, bro. You got no gray hair man. I got some. I got some. You got a lot of life left in you man. You got a lot of purpose left on this life and I want to know what has God put in your heart that maybe hasn't manifested yet, that you're believing him? For We've got a really big God. Pastor Abel, when we get into that place in the podcast, I strongly recommend sharing and going big with your faith and your belief and what you're going to speak out. We had a pastor one time that had this big old plot of land.
Speaker 1:Sharing and going big with your faith and your belief and what you're going to speak out, because like that, we had a pastor one time that had this big old plot of land I mean it was a couple acres had this little small building Hold like maybe 120 people and we were out walking a property one time and he stopped and looked back at the building. He said, eddie, the only mistake I regret is that was all I was believing God for, hello, and that was all he got.
Speaker 1:The only mistake I regret is, that was all I was believing God for Hello, and that was all he got. So ever since then, in my mind, you're only going to get what you believe in God for Go big. So that's why we always tell go big, because whatever you believe in God, for he'll meet you there.
Speaker 4:He'll give it to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So what was it like growing up, abel?
Speaker 5:I'm excited, dude, where do I begin from the little bit.
Speaker 1:I know you've done so much, bro, it's gonna blow me away.
Speaker 5:I've done a lot more than what most people know yeah my life has been filled with a lot of amazing experiences yeah and journeys and things with God, and so yeah when were you born? Well, you said I was young.
Speaker 1:Let's leave it there. You don't have to give an exact date.
Speaker 5:I don't care, I was born in 1967. Okay, all right, I'm going to be 58 in June.
Speaker 1:Really God. You look great.
Speaker 5:My daughters are teasing me like Dad, what if you need a cane? I'm like well. I have the nicest cane out there. Oh my God, daughters were teasing me like dad, what if you need a cane? I'm like I have the nicest cane out there. Oh my god, you girls be nice to your dad. So it was funny. We, I just came from my uh andrea's house down the road and, uh, we had a.
Speaker 5:We had a little easter celebration today, meal together with my older kids and my younger, you know, and and uh deidre's husband, all that. So, uh, yeah, we were having a lot of fun and nice and uh, yeah, she, she was deidre's like dad, what have you to cane?
Speaker 3:I'm like I ain't no cane, but dad you're getting old.
Speaker 5:You're almost 60, I said, but I'm not there yet. Yeah, but you're healthy, I am. Yeah, I'm working on being healthier all the time. Yeah, I'm always aware of what I'm putting in my mouth and all that stuff.
Speaker 1:It's crazy. When I was in my 20s and 30s, I could care less. I'm 52 now and I'm like I have to care now. I'm like, I'm working out, I'm eating right.
Speaker 2:He can't eat spaghetti, Otherwise he gets heartburn.
Speaker 5:It's real. Man Don't use so much Tabasco.
Speaker 2:I guess I hear you, Lord, Out of the mouth of the rabbi.
Speaker 1:I think they're trying to kill me. Brother, I really am Like oh, you got, gertz, here's some more. Oh sauce, bad for you.
Speaker 2:Here you go, Tabasco oh my God, dad, I put hot sauce in everything, so where were?
Speaker 5:you born? I was born in California.
Speaker 2:California boy.
Speaker 5:California native, born in LA, I was born in Griffith Park Hospital in 1967. I was almost a miscarriage. My mother almost miscarried me. So, it was a miracle that I was born.
Speaker 1:Were you born early.
Speaker 5:No, no, on time. Yeah, we lived in Pico Rivera, which is now a place you don't want to hang out, I guess.
Speaker 2:You're the oldest.
Speaker 5:No. Ah Well, okay, little history of my father, okay. So my dad was married to my mother of um for 15 years and then they divorced. So my father was with another lady prior to my mother, so I have older brothers, I've got four yeah, half brothers. One of them lived here in phoenix for many years. Now he's in mexico. The other, the other three are in mexico, um one of them has the same name as I do really it's abel jr.
Speaker 5:Also wow my dad's like george foreman, you know because my dad's name is abel, my name's abel, another brother named abel, and so we're you know I guess he likes the name.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, yeah so um yeah any canes in the family.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 5:No, there's a funny story in that. Remind me later about talking to a cane. So anyway, yeah.
Speaker 1:So from you and your mom.
Speaker 5:It's just you and Andrea yes, all right, okay so here's the deal also.
Speaker 2:Are you the oldest out of you two?
Speaker 5:Out of Andrea and I.
Speaker 2:Yes, but we have an older sister.
Speaker 5:Oh, my mother was married prior to my dad, right um. He was a gi army guy and he abandoned her when she got pregnant.
Speaker 2:Oh wow, so yeah so your older sister has always been around oh, yeah, yeah okay, I mean I look at her, I mean she's my sister.
Speaker 5:I don't look at anyone like a half sister, no, so she's my oldest brother, like that, he's my brother, I don't care.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, yeah, half sister, so she's my sister, my oldest brother's, like that, he's my brother, I don't care.
Speaker 5:Yeah, you know what I mean. Yeah, and that's how I am with my younger stepbrothers. I have two younger ones. One of them's in Scottsdale. He's a chef, a really good chef.
Speaker 5:I have half brothers and stepbrothers and sisters and I just call them all brothers and because they're not half of people and we, we don't step on people, right, right, so it's just hey bro, hey sis, I love you, right, yeah, so, yeah, so, uh, my, my father married my mother, of course, and and he met her. He went over, he asked her on a date and the story goes that he came over to her apartment and this is when she was alone with a newborn baby, pretty much and or not fairly new, but you know, a baby baby and uh, he opened up the fridge and he didn't see any food, and so he went out and bought some groceries.
Speaker 5:Wow, and filled her fridge, fridge, and from there, you know, they got married and my dad was going to open up a gas station in LA, but instead they moved to Arizona and so we lived in Phoenix.
Speaker 2:So how long were you in LA before you moved to Phoenix?
Speaker 5:I'm not sure, I don't know Not that long.
Speaker 2:I was little, but yeah.
Speaker 5:But you know, I've lived in California back and forth growing up, Throughout your life yeah, throughout my life.
Speaker 4:So my sister, my older sister, is still in.
Speaker 1:California, back and forth growing up, yeah.
Speaker 5:Throughout your life, yeah, throughout my life so um my sister, my older sister, is still in California and he she found her biological father. He's there too he lives in. Amazingly, he lives in Huntington beach, not far from where we used to live, wow.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 5:And he's been there and nice guy. Um, so yeah, we moved here and you know, just normal suburban, Suburban.
Speaker 1:Suburban, urban, not a car. We didn't have a suburban. Oh so you're Mormon, we're from the suburbs, bro, a car no just a normal family.
Speaker 5:you know Me, my older sister, my younger sister. My younger sister is three years older than me.
Speaker 1:So you say you had brothers that lived in Mexico.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I met them. So was your dad Joe, which is my older brother, lived here in Phoenix. He was in and out. He lived with us for a while. Then he went to the Marines.
Speaker 2:Your dad Abel. Is he a Mexican national?
Speaker 5:No, Well, he was born in Tulare.
Speaker 1:California.
Speaker 5:So he's a US citizen? Okay, but if you were to talk to him and speak to him, you'd think he's from Mexico.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, because his accent is really strong.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah yeah, okay, he grew up and he was born in, like I said, tulare, california, but he was taken from his grandfather, taken down to Mexico and he lived there with some aunts and he was basically taken from, kidnapped from his mother. Wow, who lived here? She lived here in.
Speaker 5:Arizona, and he didn't see her until he was 21. Wow, it was all I guess, because his father, father, my grandfather, was arguing with the my grandmother, yeah, so yeah, take the kid and take off. So yeah, my dad grew up down there. He had a. He had a rough life I bet and so growing up, he, he was a little rough and you know kind of a tough guy yeah, yeah and a really good looking guy. He was good with the women, that kind of thing, and you know, rico suave yeah, yeah, relax ladies, he's married so yeah
Speaker 3:if you want to go check out her testimony it's elise on the podcast well, you're rico, suave I'm telling the lady chill out, ladies I told you we were gonna have some fun, yeah, so anyway.
Speaker 5:So, uh, yeah, we lived here, and and I'm bouncing back and forth in timeline here but you're good, um, just to give a little, give you a little background on my dad. He was abused and so, of course, being abused child he's angry internally and he didn't deal with it, so guess what happens it gets passed down, yeah, so you know, did I grow up dysfunctionally? Yes, because I was abused um I loved my.
Speaker 2:Did dad drink or any drugs? Do you know? Never drugs he would drink occasionally.
Speaker 5:Sometimes he'd come home from work drunk, because he went out and had a couple beers before he came home and if you did that then you know it was bad. It was pretty much bad all the time I I grew up living in fear yeah, walking on eggshells, oh, all the time, yeah, and the moment we heard, because my dad had this old red 57 chevy pickup fleet side you know, it was a nice truck
Speaker 3:the moment you heard the truck, the moment we heard that truck because it had the chains on the tailgate.
Speaker 5:When it came up the driveway we were like scrambling no, we had all that stuff done, but we had to be in certain place. It was like acting one-on-one, so I had to. I had to immediately get out the back door because I wasn't. I was a boy, therefore I'm a man and therefore I have to be.
Speaker 5:I have to be outside all the time yeah so I don't care if it's 120 degrees weather I need to be outside working and do something, playing something I wasn't allowed to be inside because that was what girls did yeah but I loved being inside. I love playing with my sisters, right so?
Speaker 1:yeah, so was your. Was your mom hispanic as well? No, she's a totally white girl from North Carolina, because you don't look Hispanic.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that's the mixture.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you look more Spanish than Hispanic.
Speaker 5:And that's my roots. My grandfather's from Spain so I'm. Spanish.
Speaker 2:I'm not Mexican.
Speaker 5:So even my dad doesn't look, you wouldn't say he looks Mexican, you would say he looks Spanish. Yeah, because they have blonde hair.
Speaker 4:Red hair, blue eyes. Yeah, Elise could totally pass for a.
Speaker 5:Spanish lady. So you know, growing up it was tough and we lived in fear and I would see my dad hit my mom just yell the screaming, he wouldn't scream, but know, just, yell the screaming. Not, he wouldn't scream, but there there'd be. You know, just that emotion not baggage. But that abuse, domestic abuse, and and so you know as a small kid you're trying to process this and process that. You don't really know how, so I grew up really fearful.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:What full, yeah, um, what'd they do for work? My dad was a. He worked for a plating company, plating, yeah, like gold plating, silver, platinum uh chrome okay so he was an engineer, he's a fabricator, so he can.
Speaker 5:He created equipment and things to um hold pieces of. You know, if you were going to chrome plate this cup, he could figure out how to get the whole thing chrome plated without having to touch anything. Yeah, he's really smart that way. Very creative, artistic, you would.
Speaker 1:That's right up my alley bro, Muffler city. Yeah, man.
Speaker 5:So, yeah, he's really good with creativity, really good with his hands, Loves working outside. To this day he can't do it so much anymore. He's 90, when is he going to be 94. Wow.
Speaker 2:God bless you, Father. He lives down in.
Speaker 4:Tucson Wow.
Speaker 5:So yeah, you know, it was kind of a to me, it was normal.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But, looking back now it's like that wasn wasn't normal. It was the same way for me, man. I, like my boss that I work with now, met us when I was. He met me when I was like 12 and he still remembers the first time he came to my house. He seen my dad co-cock me and he's like I'm looking around for like cameras, like where's that, where's harry font here? This is beyond. You know what I mean and I'm like I was. I didn't know any different. Yeah, me, it wasn't abuse. I probably deserved it. You know what I mean, but it was like. But to him it was like what the hell?
Speaker 5:yeah, I mean, yeah, so I get that, bro, yeah yeah, there was one point when I was, uh I think it was maybe 10 or 11 I was taking kimpo karate and, um, that's with the sticks right, well, it's, they get into weapons, but it's, it's, it's a self-defense, that's, uh, you know, full contact you, you, it's more offensive, you take care of the, the enemy of four, they take care of you, you know, um, and so I was doing that and, uh, he was mad at me about something because he would get mad at me about the silliest things, you know, things that I couldn't do because I was a kid like you know.
Speaker 5:Hold up the sheetrock as I screwed into the wall and I'm like you know an eight-year-old, eight-year-old trying to hold a sheetrock's not light, you know, for a year it's like me asking Hadassah to hold this up, and then, get mad at them because they can't do it.
Speaker 5:They're little so you know stuff like that. So I was. We were working on the bedroom. He built mine and my oldest sister's bedroom to the side of the house and we were doing something and he got mad. Oh, I think I had the hammer. He goes hit that nail. I'm not accurate, I hit his thumb, I think and he started cussing me out and he raised his hand. He's like he's going to hit me and just as a reaction, not as a karate move, you know. I wasn't doing a kata.
Speaker 5:Yeah, karate move. You know I wasn't doing a kata. Yeah, I just went up like that and he got all mad. Don't you dare raise your hand to me, you? Oh, he goes. I you're taking that karate, that's it, you're done. You're never taking karate again. Oh wow, and I had to quit karate oh man and I'm like gosh oh yeah all because I naturally relax if
Speaker 5:someone starts swinging at you. You're going to go right, it's a natural reaction. So that kind of stuff. I had to deal with me and my sister, now my baby sister, andrea. She was the baby, so she was highly favored from dad. She was this little apple of his eye kind of thing. So she got off really good.
Speaker 1:I haven't heard you mention church yet. Well, I'm getting there.
Speaker 5:I'm just kind of giving the background gosh, let's get to church. No, just curious, how's school? I mean no, no, so, okay so that's kind of the the home life, um, but I love my mama. Well, I loved my dad, you know, and I wasn't allowed to be affectionate with my sisters or my mother. It would upset my dad if, if I wanted to hug her.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, no, hugs, no no she could hug me.
Speaker 5:I just couldn't go dote on her.
Speaker 1:And you know, michael, those kids snuggle with her and hang, I wasn't allowed really kind of weird yeah so anyway, um so yes, uh, you think that was because he was taken from his mom and he never got to have that, or I think that has a large part of it and the fact, he was abused by his um his aunt oh his aunt.
Speaker 5:His aunt was a highly abusive and live in a lifestyle that you would not agree with and uh she, she abused him so you know, he's damaged goods, yeah. So what are you gonna do when you're married? You're gonna yeah, you're gonna act out as damaged goods unless you get healed yeah so anyway, um hurt people, hurt people exactly. Yeah, so we, you know I, we grew up, I mean we always middle class, upper middle class. We always had money, we, we never lacked for anything was your mom passive she didn't.
Speaker 1:She wasn't at first, she became that way after years, yeah, so you guys, kind of let him run his, run his muck, or yeah, because he his anger was yeah and so um his temper.
Speaker 5:Uh, she, I'll fast forward. We got to the point where, um I like, I don't know, 12, 13 maybe, and my sisters and I told my mom, please divorce him. We're saying that.
Speaker 4:Please divorce him yeah.
Speaker 5:Get us out of here, and my mom saw the damage that was happening to us and she didn't like it either. He also cheated, you know, several times. I don't know who knows yeah times um. So it wasn't a good situation. But my mom became passive. She she told me later in years she goes the. The big mistake I made is I didn't keep fighting yeah I should have stood up, yeah, but she let him walk on her kind of so to speak so um, yeah, we asked him.
Speaker 5:Ask her please divorce him and she did yeah because she knew I was at that point. I was becoming really angry yeah because I could show you pictures, so you could see my face yeah, I was gonna. I basically was forming into you're taking time, mom yeah yeah, yeah, I was super angry, I would explode.
Speaker 5:Yeah, you know I still. You push me so far. Watch out. I become a different person and I become unleashed and I've I've hurt a lot of people in fights because they think they can take me and I take on three or four people at a time and I just lay them out yeah, so save, not soft buddy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly yeah sounds like your dad. Your dad had that temper. Yeah, I'll let you push. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, sounds like your dad. Your dad had that temper.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I'll let you push me back into the corner, but once I can't go anymore that's okay.
Speaker 4:Let's go, let's get this on and I'm all out, amen.
Speaker 5:Like you, better watch out.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you better run yeah.
Speaker 5:So anyway, so church, you know, we, yes, we went to church. My mother comes from seven. I come from seven generations of ministers.
Speaker 1:Oh wow, my mom was a minister.
Speaker 5:Oh wow, people just loved her the way she would talk about the Bible, teach the Bible, and so we attended a church, patsy.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 5:Okay, yeah, we attended a church, god bless you. My grandfather started over 50 churches.
Speaker 2:Wow, wow, wow.
Speaker 5:I've done two. So Patsy's mom, patsy's dad, patsy's dad, my grandfather, and so excuse me. So yeah, we went to church. We went to a little Pentecostal church of God, oh, 44 Street Church of God, which is really known well for their, their pastors. Uh, herschel diffy, um, he was well known, in fact, he's mentioned in the song by alice cooper. Um, no more, mr nice guy yeah uh, you hear alice cooper before he's saved. He's talking about reverend diffy, something like reverend diffy. Come me on this and I told him no more, mr Nice. Guys.
Speaker 5:So yeah, he was a well-known minister and just a great man of God. He's one of my superheroes in the faith, I guess you could say so we went to church every Sunday. I love church. I love Sunday school. The Sunday school teachers were amazing. I mean, that was back when they had flannel graphs.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I remember those the board and were amazing. I mean, that was back when they had flannel graphs, you know. Oh yeah, I remember the board and jesus of this felt and they put them up.
Speaker 5:They talk about the stories and I just sit there and I'm like just mesmerized and they let they would. Let me talk about things because when I was a kid, I I loved dinosaurs. I wanted to be a paleontologist when I grew up and so I had so many dinosaurs in my room I had an actual, real dinosaur footprint that my father stole from a zoo down in Mexico. Oh my God.
Speaker 2:Abel, I know no stealing.
Speaker 5:I hope that zoo's not opening. I'm indicting my father. No, no, no, funny thing, it's okay. Statue of limitations see you're good buddy I knew my father loved me. Yeah, it's just he didn't know how to express it right.
Speaker 2:So it's real man yeah, so he, he, uh, he can only give what you have right, can't give what you don't have exactly. And if he never got love and never was nurtured and raised with feelings and emotions and how to process and everything, he didn't have that Exactly.
Speaker 5:So he, yeah, he, I was down with him in Mexico. We'd go down there time cause he raised exotic birds. We had all kinds of exotic birds, even with some that.
Speaker 2:Like pelicans and ostriches.
Speaker 1:Everything, man.
Speaker 5:Flamingos. Rias which are huge, like dinosaurs, dinosaurs, their feet are wow, yeah. So we had everything and he. He made a lot of money um raising exotic birds. We had all these cages in the backyard.
Speaker 1:Um, we had, you know, about an acre of land some of those things are loud, oh super loud, but the neighbors loved it.
Speaker 5:They come over and look at the birds they buy them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're expensive. Oh, rich people pay good money for those. You, you could make a lot of money.
Speaker 1:My dad had a co-owner of a business that he had and he was a bird dude and he kept one of the back rooms he just had full of bird cages. Oh, those things were loud, nasty. Yeah, we had the big parrots.
Speaker 5:African parrots. So as a cute little kid my dad had. We so as a cute little kid my dad had, we had a custom van where he customized the inside you know, with carpet and secret compartments. We go down to mexico, buy birds that he made connections with, put them in the smuggling compartments. We cross the border do you have any pets? You have any animals, any food? You know oh, no, we're good they'd open up, look inside and they see this cute little me sitting there you know I was the deterrent, yeah, and then we crossed the border and we got the birds.
Speaker 5:Pulled birds out of the apartments. Let them breathe good job, boy.
Speaker 2:Oh, I mean, I'll buy you an ice cream. He was training me to be criminal. You ever make any dope runs? No, thank goodness, no, no, but later on in life, later in life.
Speaker 5:I went, I traveled with him down in mexico. We went across the border and he said I got some business. We had people coming up to him, senor aguilar, they're talking to him. You have any jobs? Anything for you want me to take across the border for you? No, no, no, I'm here with the son. I'm like dad. What are you doing, man?
Speaker 5:he's smuggling we go into this place to eat. This Mexican restaurant had breakfast chorizo and eggs I love, and men coming up to him, senor Aguilar, Like he was the kingpin of, and I'm like Dad he goes. Let me tell you some stories. I said no, no, no, no, please don't. I said I don't want to know Because if it ever comes down to you being denigrated or arrested, I truly want to say I don't know, I'm innocent. And he's like okay mijo, that's fantastic. Yeah, so it was always exotic animals.
Speaker 1:He never did smuggle drugs.
Speaker 5:Anyway. So, yeah, back to church. So I loved church. I really grew there From my childhood. I always felt Did you have peace there? Had what?
Speaker 1:Peace there, Peace when you went to church. Did you feel peace?
Speaker 5:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Because you said home life was kind of chaotic and Walking on eggshells, pure bull and eggshells, oh yeah. That when you got to church, it was like a refugee for you. Well, no.
Speaker 5:Back when I was a kid, I didn't process things like that. To me, life was just life, and I'd go to church and it was life.
Speaker 1:All right.
Speaker 5:At first, my dad never went. He grew up Roman Catholic, and so my mom would take us, and I loved it. I loved it and at that church they started busing kids from the inner city and they had so many kids and the adults loved them. The community of people just were amazing. 44th Street and what 44th Street? Church of God is 44th Street and just south of McDowell.
Speaker 1:So you're kind of downtown the.
Speaker 5:Chinese place is there now.
Speaker 4:Wow.
Speaker 5:That Chinese place is built where the church should be, because there's a church of God and then there was a Byzantine church down the street. Catholic or Byzantine, yeah yeah. So I have so many fond memories there and so all my life I felt close to God and I think that transferred through the lineage of ministers. As a kid I remember being in my yard. The neighbors had a lattice where they had these beautiful I don't know what they are- they're gorgeous Like orchids.
Speaker 5:The leaves were, the little blades of the flower were white, yellow, purple in the middle, and I remember going out there and they felt like wax, excuse me. And I was touching him and I'm like these are so beautiful and I remember talking to God. I always, my whole life, I always believed in God. I never not believed in God, and so I was talking to God. I'm like Lord, you created these. This is amazing. So I was saying you know stuff like that and I heard God speak to me. Now people are like okay, here we go. I people are like okay, here we go, I don't care what you think. Yeah, you know, I know what happened to me. Yeah, I'm gonna tell you some more stories that are even beyond that.
Speaker 1:That's the beauty of our story, brothers. People can't refute what you experienced skeptics will be skeptics, and you keep doubting who cares?
Speaker 5:I just, I don't care what people think of me at all.
Speaker 2:Come to lifelink church tomorrow. We want you at the service. Skeptics, is there proof for resurrection?
Speaker 5:that's right there is so, so, uh, yeah, I I remember, I I heard, I heard a voice it was everywhere. Yeah, just kindly speaking to me, wasn't? I mean, it was a? It was a powerful voice. But when I heard it I just turned around and I'm looking up the sky, and it was natural yeah I wasn't like spooked or anything, it was just natural and the voice was telling me I love you. And, and talking about the flowers, yeah and then I'm another time.
Speaker 5:I also remember playing in the backyard. I was looking up the sky and I started seeing things in the sky. It's almost like a how do you describe it Um, I don't know like the. The heavens opened and I could see things and I started talking to God again and he was talking to me and I was like and so it was very natural. Yeah, and I also had as a small kid you know a little kid I had a lot of discernment over certain people. I could look at people and kind of figure things out.
Speaker 5:And my mom was like huh, you know that about you. Yeah, you know. I'd tell her is this? Yeah, how'd you know that? I don't know. So there was always this strong spirit of discernment that just was on me.
Speaker 2:Prophetic bro, I guess, yeah, long spirit of discernment, that man that just was on me. Prophetic bro, I guess? Yeah, I prophesied many times yeah what's to say the spirit?
Speaker 5:spirit of prophecies subject to the prophet, no of jesus, the oh, the spirit of prophecy is the testimony of jesus yeah scripture yeah, so I, you know, I always believe in god and I always say that too, man, I've just Dad's just like how do you?
Speaker 2:just believe, dude, it's just. I just believe it's got to make sense to this guy. It's got to fit in a box form and all add up, right. I just believe, dude. I grew up with drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, cussing, gambling. You know what I?
Speaker 1:mean. Well. I can remember as a young boy believing in God, but never really having an experience. You know what I mean. Like when my dad would beat the crap out of me. I'd go to my room and I'm like God, just kill him. God, you know what I mean, so I knew God was there.
Speaker 5:I knew of God.
Speaker 1:I knew there was a God, I just didn't have that relationship.
Speaker 5:You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:It wasn't something that was. You know what I mean it. Just, I always knew there was god. It just didn't think I was yeah, he was mine. You know, I mean yeah, because growing up in mesa you had mormons. You know I mean yeah, and so it was just seemed like it was them and us and you were one of them. I wasn't one of them, I was one of us right yeah, you know, we were the smokers, drinkers, cussers, fighters.
Speaker 2:We weren't godly we weren't church people. Yeah, we were heathens. You know what I mean?
Speaker 1:yeah, just for some reason, as a young kid, I knew that right, I'm not them just you know what I mean. I'm just one of the. I just I don't know. It's weird how I understood that yeah interesting.
Speaker 2:That's why it's so important to raise your family in the house of god man right, so they know, they're not heathens yeah, they don't live like one.
Speaker 1:The right way, though build though. Build that foundation, not just going to church.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no relationship with Jesus. I know a lot of people that are raised in church and don't have it either.
Speaker 5:Buddy, that's true. There's a lot of dead people in church. Yes, there is, oh boy, that's funny.
Speaker 1:I told somebody one time I'm like they just knew God all their life. They were always in church and they were like my age now and they were just miserable and I'm like I'm so glad I found god later in life because I still have this joy.
Speaker 2:It's this excitement about god. I'm like, I don't want to be like that.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean miserable, knowing god my entire life.
Speaker 5:I'm like that's not what I want at all, you know, I mean you know it's funny, deidre, my oldest daughter, she, uh, she um just going to youth groups and different churches on, I was on staff at and stuff and and she came to me one night she goes, dad, you know I struggle a lot. I said yeah, what's up? She goes. When the youth pastor preaches about sin and about you know, not being believing in God, blah, blah, blah, or where you failed and we, you know, she goes. I can't relate, she goes. I don't know what that. She goes. I can't relate, she goes. I don't know what that means. She goes. I've never not believed in God, I've always believed she goes. I can't even say a specific day that I was quote saved.
Speaker 4:She goes.
Speaker 5:I've always believed, I've always had faith and she says a lot of these temptations that teens are dealing with. She goes. I have no clue what they're talking about Cause I don't live that, and this kid is squeaky clean and she's my prayer for her. When she, before she was born, I said Lord, let her succeed where I failed. Amen, and that kid has been straight as an arrow, her whole life. And she's married a wonderful Good job, Michael.
Speaker 2:Who plays?
Speaker 5:8,000 instruments.
Speaker 2:Really, I just watch him skateboarding. We need more skateboarding videos. He drums piano guitar.
Speaker 4:The church.
Speaker 5:They're on staff, they're on the worship team and she plays the keyboard. She's phenomenal, Wow.
Speaker 1:And he does the same thing drums guitar. She went to ORU too, didn't she? Yes, she did. Nice man, we're going to get there. We'll get there, yeah.
Speaker 5:So you know, in light of I just felt close to God my whole life. I felt like I want to say I felt special, but I'm not any more special than anyone else, but somehow God's love that I felt as a child through church, through my experiences, I felt like it was special. Yeah, wow. On the flip side of of that, there was also a lot of spiritual evil that was, that was around, and I think it was due to my dad yeah and so I would have um dreams and visions of really evil things.
Speaker 5:um, sometimes I'd wake up in the middle of night and see I'm not, I'm, I'm not saying, I actually saw this. I wasn't dreaming, I wasn't sleepwalking. I was. I actually was fully awake, and so I would see demons in the bathroom which the the bathroom was right across from my bedroom and I'd be scared to death but they could never come over from the hall. They just kind of taunt and I'd lay there and I'd be shaking and frozen and I'd just pray and then I'd fall back asleep.
Speaker 4:Wow, but these things are real so somehow with the spiritual world it was.
Speaker 5:I was just really keen about aware of what was going on around me amen in what we can see, you know. And so, um, when I was little about five, also, kind of going back and forth I was diagnosed with an incurable disease. Now I was a sick child. I was, you know, lived in fear, and I think my father created a lot of that Because, you know, they say that kind of oppression can lead to bad health. So I lived in fear, I was sick all the time time. I had just chronic acute asthma. There were times I would go to the doctor, lay in bed and I thought I was dying. So I was really aware of death, being close to death, because there's times where I couldn't that's my breath, yeah and I'm struggling to breathe and and and.
Speaker 5:So lo and behold, I, uh, I'm walking around trying to play like a normal kid and I'm in serious pain. Long story short, my mother takes me to the doctors. They do x-rays. They found out through blood tests and all the other things. They said, uh, he has what's called leg prothesis disease. They said it's it's not uncommon in boys this age. They said it's, it's not uncommon in boys this age. What happens is the bones just start to dissolve for no reason. Wow, so my hip ball joint, you know in the?
Speaker 5:yeah, you know, I don't know was dissolving and so it was not smooth, running smooth or moving smoothly in the socket, wow, and it caused severe pain. Yeah, to the point to where I was. I was, uh, wheelchaired, so I was now crippled and could not walk really yeah as a kid as a kid. So here I am being wheelchaired around and I hated it. I hated because what it did, it brought a lot of attention. Other kids were curious, adults were curious you know parents pushing me around.
Speaker 5:They didn't have kids wheelchairs back then, it was a full-on adult yeah and um, people just look at me and it really made me self-conscious and aware and I'm like I don't want people staring at me, so it kind of made me really introverted. I was really shy as a kid growing up from there. So, um, so I had this disease and I I, uh, it just broke my mom's heart because she saw this healthy kid going from running around playing like a boy should to incapacitated and crippled in this wheelchair.
Speaker 4:Wow and so uh, how old were you Five around five.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 5:So I, um I asked her one night at the dinner table. And, uh, gosh, I try not to grunt in the drink some water, bro, you're trying not to grunt on the mic. Um, so I asked her one night let me get a drink.
Speaker 2:I was somewhere. Oh yeah, At the wedding it was hot out. I mean you couldn't talk at the wedding.
Speaker 5:So, uh, one night at the dinner table we were eating and uh, I just asked my mom in my night at the dinner table we were eating and uh, I just asked my mom in my wheelchair at the dinner table.
Speaker 5:I said mommy, she goes? Yeah, well, am I gonna die? And I was super serious, I wasn't joking around. Yeah, and she, uh, she got up and left the table. I didn't know later, she, I'm gonna tear up. Uh, she got up later. Or she got up and she told me later in life she goes. I had to leave the table cause I was crying to ask, to have my son ask if he's dying. She goes. I couldn't take it. So I'm getting a little teary eyed.
Speaker 5:So, um, anyway, she went on a campaign. She's like do you believe that God can heal you? And I said, mommy, I know God can heal me. I always knew God had the power and he's omnipotent and he can do whatever he wants right.
Speaker 5:And I knew he could fix it and so I was like, yeah, god can heal me. She goes, we're going to pray, god heals you. She started sending out prayer requests. She sent out prayers to the family through the church, all kinds of people. She said please pray for my son that he's completely healed of this disease. Because it was only going to get worse.
Speaker 5:And the only thing that could be done at the time. I don't know about now, but back then they said, when he gets old enough we could do a hip replacement Maybe he'll never walk normal again. He won't be able to do any sports, you know nothing but he can get to the place where he can limp around. And now they have so much technology with hip replacements and stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I got metal legs.
Speaker 5:Do you You're like a six million dollar man.
Speaker 2:Bionic, bionic.
Speaker 5:You're bionic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude, it's a top metal detector, you're like Terminator.
Speaker 2:Roll up your skin and it's like.
Speaker 1:If you shoot me, I won't keep going, I wish.
Speaker 5:So you know, people prayed. My grandmother sent me a prayer cloth and it was just this little white sheet of cloth and my mom said a lot of people from her church prayed over this and she wants you to just place it on your body when you go to bed. Okay, there's no healing in the prayer cloth, right? The healing comes from God. So I did that several nights in a row, and so one night in my sleep I don't, I don't know how to describe or explain this to you, but, um, I woke up and there was a man standing next to me and I don't, it wasn't Jesus. I don't know who it was. I'm maybe an angel, I have no idea, I don't know. But I was laying on my side and I looked up and I saw him and he went like this he put his hand on my leg and he went up, he goes, and I fell back asleep.
Speaker 5:Wow, I woke up in the morning. The moment I woke up I kicked the, the wheelchair, which is always right by my bed. Uh, I shut my, my feet, my legs hit that thing so hard. It slammed into my closet doors. You know, the houses back then had the, the closet doors.
Speaker 4:That just kind of hung yeah with no track in the bottom.
Speaker 5:It knocked the doors off my closet and everyone was asleep. I just started screaming mommy, mommy, dad, mommy, jesus healed me, jesus healed me. I got up and I started running around the house like a freak, yeah, running everywhere. And uh, she gets up. She's like what's going on, abel, what do you? I said no, no, no, she goes, get in your chair. No, no, no, jesus. Jesus healed me, jesus healed me, she goes, son, get in your chair. I said no, no, no, jesus healed me. I'm fine. Yeah, I look and I'm jumping all over, I'm hopping up and down and uh, and she goes, okay, okay, okay, because I would not. I said I'm not getting back in that chair. I hated that chair, I hated the wheelchair, wow, so she goes. Okay, sit down. She contacts a doctor.
Speaker 2:How old were you at this point? Oh, you're still five.
Speaker 5:Five, six-ish, yeah, wow, so I-.
Speaker 2:The reason why I'm asking. I want to know how long you lived with this thing like this it was A few months Longer than a year it was developing through my childhood.
Speaker 5:They said and it got, just got to the point where the bone has they and they showed me the x-ray rays. You could see the the, the ball of the hip was not well, yeah, it was, yeah, it was like bad falling apart, yeah and so, um, you know, it progressed to the point to where I couldn't walk anymore, so that's what landed me in a wheelchair. So I'm just screaming and she's like oh, everyone calms down.
Speaker 5:My dad's like wow, my sister's like you know, and so she gets me to the doctor. She tells the doctor I'm going to tell you a story, I just need you to check. Please get some new x-rays. He goes, let's do it.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 5:We tell the story, we tell him this story, she tells him the story, what I just shared with you, and he says let's, let's check, let's get some new x-rays. And I'm like let's get him. Yeah and they do an x-rays and we wait in the room. He comes in and he slaps me on the legs with x-rays and he looks at my mom and he goes he's perfectly fine Wow. And he goes. I don't know how to explain this.
Speaker 5:And he goes, look, he shows the new one, where the bone is formed perfectly, and he says here's the old one. And he goes Pat, you said God healed him. I guess I have to believe that God healed him, because I didn't do anything to this kid and his bones are perfect, jesus so. I was fine ever since that point and God, I think, has a great sense of humor because I pretty much suck at every sport growing up yeah, but at least you gotta play them, yeah, but here's.
Speaker 5:I loved basketball as a kid but I'm horrible at it. I can't catch a football or throw a football to save my life. A Nerf football I can, because it has a tail. Have you ever tried golf? I can hit that ball far.
Speaker 2:I knew it, but not in the direction that it needs to go. I can help you with that. Thank you. I've got some tools and some tricks bud. I can pound that ball yeah.
Speaker 5:But it doesn't go in the direction I need it to Anyway. So any sport with a ball, I'm miserable at. Any sport that has projectile or leg, anything that requires leg strength I'm exceptional at Later on in life and I'm fast-forwarding. Later on in life I ended up racing BMX motocrossocross. You ever wrestle?
Speaker 5:no I didn't you got a wrestler's build I do huh yeah, no, the, the build comes from racing really. Um, yeah, just, I used to be really yeah I'm out of shape compared to recently. I'll get there, but um uh, no I I. What I fell in love with was bicycles, and I started racing BMX motocross.
Speaker 1:When did you do that? How old were you when you started that I?
Speaker 5:was 12, 13. Really, and, yeah, and I was—.
Speaker 1:Did you have to drive all the way to Mesa in Chandler?
Speaker 5:Well, I was living in California and here— oh, California. So I was racing everywhere. And— Did you ever race here in Arizona? I and um. Did you ever race here in Arizona? I used to race here in Arizona, Right here over here on McQueen and Fry. That was my home track. When I'm back here, in. California. That's where we used to raise as kids, yeah, um, so I, uh, yeah, I, I, I was really good, I got really good, really really fast.
Speaker 4:Really.
Speaker 5:So much so that I turned pro when I was 17, which back then was unheard of. Yeah, was unheard of yeah, not so much now, yeah, but back then like your turn pro you're only 17 and I'm racing guys 24, 25, 26, you know big guys and um, so I uh yeah, I was 24 inch bikes, 26 inch bikes 20 inch, 24, yeah, and so, um, you just did the courses.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the jumps, the track, yeah, so fun then I went into I had some road bikes.
Speaker 5:I did that for a while and I mountain biking and so really I'm still good on the bike I can. I used to do the tricks, the ride, the ramps, everything, really the jumping yeah, so you did some freestyle stuff too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, really I started.
Speaker 5:I did that before I started racing actually racing yeah, um. So the sense of humor I think god has is that going from not being able to walk to using a being in a sport that requires all leg leg Right. It's pretty cool, yeah, and I would share that story with people when I raced.
Speaker 1:God has a great sense of humor. Yeah, I think so, he does he does you know?
Speaker 5:but you know, if you want me to throw a football, forget it.
Speaker 1:You're going to laugh at me.
Speaker 5:Nice Like hey, but you throw like a girl. Yeah, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:How long did you do professional racing?
Speaker 5:I turned pro when I was 17. I kind of retired when I was, I don't know, maybe 26, 27, 28. Oh, so you did it for a while. Yeah, wow, travel a lot, yeah, really.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, wow yeah. Travel a lot. Yeah, really yeah. Where's the coolest place to race at? I?
Speaker 5:don't know, I didn't go overseas. Yeah, Like I wish it was in the Olympics back then. Yeah, oh, I would have loved that. But just you know, here locally and California, different states- different nationals, that kind of thing. So I was so. Because of those experiences as a kid, I always felt close to God. I felt like for some reason.
Speaker 1:Well, that would totally stir your faith right there.
Speaker 5:Oh yeah, and so you know, I felt the fear of thinking I was going to die, feeling and then going from that to being totally healed. And I know there's Christians out there. Oh God doesn't heal today, Well. Oh my God, I can show you, I've got pictures of myself in a wheelchair.
Speaker 1:Oh, you staged that Right. I went back to question whether they were Christian or not. Buddy Jesus guys. You know, I just don't get it when there's Christians, god doesn't heal. Be quiet, he does. I've seen so many healings. He says he's the same guy today, yesterday and tomorrow.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 5:I don't know, but that's a theological question.
Speaker 1:I told you to keep me on track here, man, because we can go on. Yeah, all right, I love those kind of rattle holes.
Speaker 5:Yeah, so you know most of my kid life. I was a good kid. I never I didn't cause any waves, I didn't cause any trouble.
Speaker 2:I was a very good kid. Yeah, and uh, yeah, but you said that around like 12 or 11, you started to get angry.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I'm gonna get there, oh, okay well, I was like I know, once you're angry man.
Speaker 2:You're not really a good kid anymore. Well, raleigh wants the juicy stuff.
Speaker 1:I was angry bro I know what it is.
Speaker 5:I was angry so you know, I was one of those kids that you know, I wasn't a big kid. When I was little I was easily one that you could pick on, Picked on yeah.
Speaker 5:And so I had some bullies. I had a bully that lived down the street. He was driving me nuts, you know, and I should have just pounded the kid. I had the strength to do it. I just I think when you grow up in an abusive home like that, you just learn to take the abuse. So I let people pick on me, which is far different than now, because I will pound you in the face if I need to. I don't even, I'm not going to take names, I'm not going to pound you.
Speaker 1:I told my youngest son one time I said if somebody's at school bullying, you punch them in the face. They'll leave you alone.
Speaker 5:I tell my kids that also. Tell my kids that also I'm like, yeah, you did it one time and he's never yeah, that's it, won't mess with you anymore that's usually the case.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, but I also told him, if I ever catch a bull in someone, I'm gonna be jerked exactly.
Speaker 5:You know what too I tell my kids defense only never, never start something. No cussing, dad, we're with a pastor, but if you have to finish it finish it.
Speaker 2:You know, yeah, but uh so I want a bumper sticker that says I love Jesus. I just cuss a little. Can you make me one Dad? I can yeah. You can make anything.
Speaker 5:I know he's a champion.
Speaker 2:Your window on your studio looks great, bro. Hey, thank you. I know a guy, he's the guy, he's the guy.
Speaker 5:So, you know, I I think because of, yeah, the way I grew up in the home, that um I was, I was a little passive, more than I needed to be a punching bag, yeah, I didn't well, and I wasn't a pun. I mean, I wasn't picked on continually, but I was picked on sometimes and I just let people pick on me, yeah, until it got to the point of you push me in the corner.
Speaker 4:I blow up, then it's a blow up.
Speaker 5:Yeah. So one time in the third grade and this is how strong I was in my faith that the teacher was teaching evolution- and she was talking about how we came from apes.
Speaker 5:I stood up in the class and I started yelling. I said you're wrong. It was Mrs Shanklin. I had a crush on her. I said you're wrong and I'm pointing my finger and all the kids are like I said we did not come from apes. God created us. He fashioned us out of the dirt and I started preaching to her. And she's like Abel, okay, and she got me calmed down but I was hot. I was Mr Apologist right there in the third grade and everyone knew what. Abel stood for.
Speaker 5:So I couldn't stand hearing those kind of lies. I'm like ha-ha just rubbed him the wrong way. So getting a little bit older junior high and high school I started getting angry.
Speaker 2:Did you get good grades in?
Speaker 5:school. No, no, no, no. Okay, that's another thing. My father just destroyed my self-esteem.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I sucked at school.
Speaker 2:Yeah, can I say suck yeah. Oh, yeah, you're good.
Speaker 5:You can cuss if you want to. Oh, I don't.
Speaker 1:Actually Iapproved cuss words you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:I got a button over here. I can hit.
Speaker 1:No, I'm just joking. Yeah, I've never cussed Aces crackers fudge.
Speaker 5:We got a list of them. I'm just kidding. So, uh, you know, I I had low self-esteem. Therefore I I did horrible in school. Also, some of that was my first grade teacher, who humiliated me in class before the students.
Speaker 4:Again, I was a shy kid so I just wanted to be left alone.
Speaker 5:I still have moments where I'm shy Nuh-uh yeah, no, seriously, Stop. There's still moments where I'm like I just I observe, I watch people. I don't know if you noticed me. I watch everyone around me.
Speaker 2:I'm watching people, yeah, by the right, by the knee, high, like this oh, I observe everything oh yeah I pick up everything oh yeah, I know things
Speaker 1:oh yeah, people like oh, be scared to pass her. I know where to find. You find a little wall right there, so all right anyway.
Speaker 5:So, um, you know, I I got horrible grades, some of the teachers I loved. Mrs Lee was my fourth grade teacher and she really built up my confidence, but unfortunately she was killed, brutally murdered, in downtown Phoenix. Her father owned a convenience store, yeah, and she was working that day filling in and she got robbed and killed. It was horrible Dang it. Just a sweet lady. Hope she's in heaven.
Speaker 1:I don't know but um, anyway, um growing up, growing up in downtown phoenix was rough, wasn't it?
Speaker 5:I guess, I don't know I didn't grow up in downtown. No, no, no, we lived in phoenix, but it was suburbs, all right um which is now like called arcadia. All right, it's the's the posh place. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Central and Indian school.
Speaker 5:No, no, we were on around Thomas and I don't know 50 something street, okay, over by that mountain over there. I was almost killed.
Speaker 1:That's good now.
Speaker 5:Because, my older brother saved me because as a baby I crawled out in the street on a lot of traffic and almost got hit by a car but he grabbed me A lot of close calls in my life, grace.
Speaker 2:The grace of God.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I've had guns. That's another story. So, yeah, I started getting angry around that age, you know, and it wasn't anything I purposely was doing, it's just something building up in me.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 5:I didn't like things, I didn't like people. I just I can't say. I want to say that I hated my dad. It was probably just a notch lower than hate, yeah, because I do love my dad.
Speaker 1:And now we're fine, we've got a great relationship.
Speaker 5:Now he's different, a different person amen um, but back then I started to really hate him. Yeah and uh, you know it, probably I, my mom saw that and I think she saw that once I got to the point where I could defend myself against him I'd blame out and she didn't want that to happen. So I mean, honestly, I can look back and say if my mom did not do what we asked her to do divorcing him I probably would have killed him Wow, literally killed him. Back then I had that within me.
Speaker 2:I could murder him, you were angry, I was angry, you were angry I'll find pictures and show you. I'll go oh man you were angry.
Speaker 5:Just a picture with my sister and I'm like I just have this look.
Speaker 2:Yeah so in a way, it's a spirit of anger.
Speaker 5:Yes, in a way I was getting hardened, you know, and so basically I never. You know, I was a straight and narrow kid. I was a good kid.
Speaker 1:I didn't get in fights.
Speaker 5:I didn't defend myself if I needed to, um we never led you to lash out at somebody, or only again, only if they backed me in a corner, only if they took it to the, to the place where there's no point of return never got to a point where you just blew up, oh yeah I blew up on some people and they I hurt them bad.
Speaker 2:So it's like you said, you were a good kid, you weren't out there looking for trouble. I wasn't looking for fights. I was looking for trouble, he was looking for trouble.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you were the guy bullying him. You were trying to be good. I had blackout moments, oh wow, where I was just getting into fights and blackout and just not remember what happened.
Speaker 5:I can relate to that a little bit. Yeah, I went not remember what happened. I can relate to it a little bit. Yeah, I wouldn't totally black out, but I was like what just?
Speaker 1:happened. I fought my oldest brother in prison and I remember throwing the first punch and then the last thing I remember is the sergeant telling me to get in the office.
Speaker 4:Wow.
Speaker 1:Everything in between. I have no recollection of.
Speaker 2:It's amazing what the human mind does.
Speaker 4:Wow, anger.
Speaker 2:When you get all arranged like that.
Speaker 5:Oh, wow, anger when you get all rage like that. Oh yeah, yeah. So yeah, I I never desired, I never had it within me to do any wrong, because that established faith in god and yeah, you always knew god what he did for me, from my young life I was like no, I want to live for god.
Speaker 5:so, um, you know, when it started to change a little bit was when I was in high school. Like I said, I was racing. My parents were divorced and once my mom left my dad, it was kind of a really bad situation because we basically left with nothing and my mom moved us out in Gilbert here when Gilbert was nothing from Phoenix, because she was worried she moved far away. That was far away back then.
Speaker 5:um, there was no freeway out there so um, she did that because my dad always said if you divorce me and you leave me, I'm taking abel to mexico, just like she. He was done, wow, and he had a gun, and my mom like he might be that crazy to come after you with a gun. Back then. Yeah, I think my dad was.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 5:So she moved us far away and we really lived hard, pennies. There were times we didn't have food, amen, and you know, trying to live and trying to have clothing. We lived in a nice house, nice neighborhood, but that's all she could cover.
Speaker 1:Was your mom ever working when your dad was around?
Speaker 5:yeah, yeah, she worked. She always worked um, and there was times she wasn't working but, for the most part she had a really good job.
Speaker 5:All right um, when they divorced she was working, but you know one household income yeah, three kids and it just didn't work and we struggled a lot, and what really was a bummer back then was that the church that we grew up and loved, they just kind of turned our backs because my dad started going to church. Well, he, let me back up. He started going to church prior to that there were times I remember we all go to family afterwards prior to the divorce yeah, we would. Yeah, he started to make it work yeah, he started attending regularly um and people loved him.
Speaker 5:He's very much a charming man you know and and um, so uh, when the divorce happened he played it like he was the victim. Oh wow, and the people thought my mom was the harlot. I guess you could say wow, and she wasn't yeah and she's just trying to save her and her kids life from abuse, and so we had a lot of people in the church turn on us, not like literally turn, but they no one would talk to us they wouldn't offer food there was one church locally that offered food.
Speaker 5:it was pretty bad. So I was like gosh, you know church people, yeah, what's up with that. And so, um, it wasn't years afterwards that mom, my mom's story really got out and people start like, yeah, you were right.
Speaker 4:We're sorry, I apologize yeah.
Speaker 5:The way we treated you. So, um, yeah, so I you know the anger started growing. It was with me in high school. High school Where'd?
Speaker 1:you go to high school at.
Speaker 5:I went to. I was in California Ocean View High School. I went to Cotella High School in Anaheim. I went to Dobson High School. I was supposed to graduate from Dobson High in Mesa but I didn't graduate. Mustangs, I failed everything. Mustangs, yeah, go Mustangs. I remember when westward westwood, I think, we were playing against them and they burned a big w in our field.
Speaker 1:So yeah, we used to. I went to mason high school and we used to burn a uh, because there's the westwood warriors. So we'd have like this dude that we'd burn as our pep rallies and stuff when we're playing westwood.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that's funny.
Speaker 1:What made you guys move to California?
Speaker 5:Well, so I'm kind of bouncing around, but we so, after the divorce, you know, we lived in Gilbert and for a while we were here, and then my mom got a job offer in California for an Italian tile company. She did their books, she was a bookkeeper, and they moved us there. Uh, we lived close, three miles from the beach. I loved it, nice, I loved it um and um, and we were there for a while and and she ended up quitting the job because they were I don't know if I can say they were part of the, the italian mafia yeah.
Speaker 5:And they wanted her to keep two sets of books.
Speaker 4:Oh.
Speaker 5:And she goes. I can't do that yeah.
Speaker 1:I got integrity right yeah.
Speaker 5:And they said well, here's the thing about mafia. They'll bring you in so much, they'll trust you a little bit here a little bit more yeah. When they know they can trust you a little bit more, they'll share stuff with you. Now you've got a choice. You can accept and be part of the family or you can reject it and things can happen. They let you know so much to where you could possibly bring harm. Now you know too much, Now they get you.
Speaker 1:Now you know too much. You know too much. Now they get you.
Speaker 5:Yeah, now you know too much, yeah you know too much, so that's what was happening.
Speaker 1:Either in or.
Speaker 5:Right, yeah. And so she got nervous and we hightailed it out of you know, once she quit, she hightailed, we left California and came back to Arizona.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so how many years were you in California?
Speaker 5:two, three yeah, a year, a couple years yeah like I said, it was back and forth a lot.
Speaker 1:You ever pick up surfing.
Speaker 5:I, I did try it. I'm okay with it. Um, and that's where the name this place surfer comes, that's why I brought yeah um, you know, my thing was racing yeah and uh, so I had friends that surfed and I loved the. I still love the beach. Friends that surfed and I loved the beach I still love the beach. I'll go out and travel to the beach just to hang out on the beach. I just like being out. It's very peaceful. It's kind of one of those places where I like to go, just relax.
Speaker 1:Yeah, same way.
Speaker 5:And so I'll go to the beach anytime you know, and so but road trip no, I'm just kidding. Let's go right now.
Speaker 1:You're driving, at least I'll be home Monday, tuesday.
Speaker 2:We got a car that gets great gas mileage.
Speaker 1:It's only six hours. It's only six hours. Let's go.
Speaker 5:Closer to if you go to La Jolla, la Jolla, oh gosh La Jolla. I'm going to get some water, so yeah. So we, um, we left California and I hated around or moving around so much. We moved around all the time when, once my parents divorced and I hated it.
Speaker 1:I wanted a place of stability but I never got it and I wanted friends.
Speaker 5:I was I was so lonely in high school, you know until I got to Dobson where I could establish friends and racing buddies and girlfriends things like that so, um we, we came back to arizona and we we lived with a um when is this?
Speaker 2:this has got to be in the 90s, 80s, you're asking me the years.
Speaker 5:I don't know. I'm terrible with years.
Speaker 2:Well, you're not in your 20s yet, so it's no, no, I'm about 15 16, all right, 82, 83, my guess. Yeah, right when I'm born.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah see so we expect your elders we come back to uh arizona, and we live with a my mom's friend, a lady that that uh used to. She used to work with um her secretary and we stay there for a few months, the summer months, till she can get on her feet and we can get an apartment. Yeah well, this is where things kind of and go a little south, but in hindsight I don't really see it as south, it's just part of life yeah, yeah but um, I get involved with her friend the secretary. Again, I'm 15.
Speaker 2:Mom's friend yeah, I'm 15, 16 maybe, yeah.
Speaker 5:Okay 15, going on 16, and she's 24.
Speaker 2:Yeah. When you say involved, do you mean like sleeping?
Speaker 1:with yeah Involved. You're a man, figure it out, buddy. I didn't know how involved.
Speaker 2:Involved. Playing with your pecker, you, I didn't know how involved Involved Playing with your pecker.
Speaker 5:He can I guess yeah?
Speaker 1:Inappropriate relations bud.
Speaker 5:Okay, we know, when you go to a firehouse and you order a sandwich and they say you want that fully involved, there you go. I was fully involved, my brother.
Speaker 2:All the way in, oh my God, and I'll, there you go. I was fully involved, my brother All the way in, oh my God.
Speaker 5:And I'll tell you what, as a 15-year-old, 16-year-old kid, that was amazing, amazing.
Speaker 2:Amazing. I had a mounted sheriff that liked me when I was a kid bro my dad's friend's wife.
Speaker 1:She was on the sheriff's posse, my dad's friend's wife.
Speaker 5:he even got so mad that he thought it was my dad that he chased my dad down a circle, came, pulled a gun on him. Oh my gosh, it was him, it was me, it was you, it was the kid, I was 16, 17. Look at you.
Speaker 2:Them older girls love the younger boys.
Speaker 5:I love the older girls and I'm a ripped 15, 16 year old. You know muscles galore and from racing.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 5:So so that formed a relationship, you know, an inappropriate relationship of course. But nonetheless it formed and, and we were in secret for a good three years, wow, and so my mom actually found out?
Speaker 2:That was my next question. Oh yeah, mom ever find out. Oh yeah, mama found out, yeah.
Speaker 5:And it hit the fan, yeah. So yeah, she found out because she tracked me. Now, I didn't have a car back then. I would always ride my bike because I was always on my bike training. So I went everywhere, I, I drive, I drive my bike to downtown phoenix from gilbert or mesa. It didn't matter, it just wasn't not a thing.
Speaker 1:I rode to south mountain high school to go see a girl a bicycle wow, you got me beat on that, yeah.
Speaker 5:So yeah, I snuck out one Saturday morning. It was cold and my mom had some suspicion, you know, and she said she told me later she goes. I always thought when we were staying at the house that something was going on. Here's what happened. I tweaked my back racing and she had a waterbed. And she goes. Pat, let Abel stay in the bed until he recovers.
Speaker 5:Okay, you know it's just men, you don't think of it, but that's when things went down. And so you know I thought I was in love and actually truthfully I can say that I fell in love with her and I've always been one of those guys that I want to. I'm kind of one gal guy. I don't want to fool around. I don't need, you know, 50 chicks. Yeah, Just one devoted woman you know, so.
Speaker 2:One is hard enough to deal with. How do they do three or four? I have no idea.
Speaker 1:I've just never been a player you know as some guys do and they you know like to stack up women like trophies.
Speaker 5:I hated that kind of mindset. It's a woman, she's got feelings, she's got emotions, you know. And so yeah, that went on. And my mom, she followed us, she followed me one morning and she didn't, she couldn't keep up with me because I was fast. And she said she parked over by the lady's house apartment and she waited and she saw me come out of the apartment and then I got home and then I'm like I walk in my sister's there.
Speaker 4:I said where's mom Because?
Speaker 5:mom never got up early Saturday morning. They're like we don't know. Maybe she went to get some donuts or something.
Speaker 4:She comes in.
Speaker 5:I could tell on her face.
Speaker 4:She goes she just had this look, I knew I was busted.
Speaker 5:And she just goes where were you? It's kind of like God in the garden when he said Adam and Eve he goes. Where are you? Who told you you're naked? He knew it's a rhetorical question.
Speaker 4:He knew what they did.
Speaker 5:My mom's like where were you? She knew what I was doing. I was just out riding my bike, oh you were. Huh, what were you doing over at Drew? I almost said the person's name. Put them on blast and she goes what were you doing over at so-and-so's house? And I said I wasn't over there. Yes, you were. I know I wasn't.
Speaker 5:We got in an argument and she goes I was parked outside. I saw you. I'm like cold busted Dang, I don't want to ever see you over again. And she called her and she says I'm going to have you arrested for statutory rape. Wow, I mean, she threatened both of us and I said Mom, I'm in love with you, You're not in love with her.
Speaker 4:I'm in love with her.
Speaker 5:You're not in love with her. I'm in love with her. You're not in love with her. Yeah, you think you're in love with her. I truly wasn't. Yeah and uh, so that ended fast but we just played it cool. Yeah, a little bit, and then we were still sneaking around just being better at sneaking later in life.
Speaker 5:My mom said I knew that I could not stop you. She goes. You know I, I knew I I couldn't fully stop you or her she goes, but I just needed you to know that I didn't approve of it and it ruined the friendship between her and this lady and uh. So with that, that put me on a track, because and I'll say this to people out there that might be listening you know, never start a relationship with someone, um, sexually, yeah, no, it just I'm not saying it can't last, but it's harder, yeah. And if sex is your primary focus for being in liberation in a relationship with a person, that's not a good no motive, that's not sex is a by motive.
Speaker 5:No, it's not. Sex is a byproduct of love, right? It should not be the motivating factor for that relationship. And so you know, what that did to me is I. It caused me to look at girls differently, more like an object rather than a person. And it did affect me. And you know, again, I was having the time of my life. I wasn't one of those braggers, but sometimes the guys would hey, abel, because she'd come over to school on lunch. You know I could leave the campus, we'd go have a little fun, come back to campus, go back to class.
Speaker 5:You know and people are like who I could leave the campus and go have a little fun coming back Campus. Go back to class.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you know, and people like who's that girl?
Speaker 5:Who's that girl? Just a friend, yeah, right.
Speaker 5:The friends figured out, so I, there'd be guys bragging in the bathroom. Oh, this weekend I had, you know, I was with and I'm like shut up, quiet and I'm doing the real deal, yeah, you know, with an older woman and so, um, so, uh, yeah, we, we that continued on. Then it kind of fizzled out. Um, I started getting interested, interested in some other girls in high school and, uh, she was dating another guy, and so it just, we, peacefully and friendly, friendly, friendlily, is that all all right, we went our separate ways, you know, and um, so I think, deep down inside we, we really knew that it wasn't gonna truly work because, um, she was older.
Speaker 5:I was younger and the fact that how it started and the secretive life we had to live and it's just you know, um and her, her family, knew about it.
Speaker 4:Oh, wow.
Speaker 5:Her siblings found out.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 5:They're like okay, whatever. So I'm like, if that's what you want, yeah. So you know, it just kind of fizzled out and we remained friends and we've actually communicated through social media, hey how you doing. Not because anything starts. Yeah, yeah, hey how you doing.
Speaker 2:yeah, not because anything starts yeah, yeah you're doing yeah, you know, did you end up graduating from dobson high?
Speaker 5:I'm getting there. So right, he's like trying to keep us on track so, uh, anyway. So yeah, I started dating the girls and buddy of mine, he you know. So I go through high school and again I'm not causing any trouble, no problems Other. My big sin in life, I guess, was you know women.
Speaker 2:Women have a prenatal sex. Yeah, a lot of guys struggle with girls. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5:But to me I mean that was normal, you know, because it's what movies?
Speaker 4:movies, yeah, everything so yeah, it was just normal, I didn't realize.
Speaker 5:But I always knew deep down in my heart, because during that time I wouldn't pray as much. I used to pray every day, Every night before bed I'd pray and ask God and I knew he was still with me. But I could tell there was something different when I was sinning like that, continually and purposefully sinning, because I knew I was sinning like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Continually and purposefully sinning because I knew I was doing. I knew better. Yeah, we know. I knew that was wrong. Yeah, we know.
Speaker 5:So you know, come graduation I was short, so many credits. I was 19 in high school. I was going to be 21 before I graduated. Woo, you're going to alternative school, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5:Well, it didn't happen back then. So I'm like you know, they told me that and I was bummed out that I couldn't walk with my graduating class. I watched from the stands, yeah and uh. So I never graduated, I just worked and I was racing because I was just going to be this big pro racer and make millions off of doing that. And uh, so I had one girlfriend that kind of steered me away from racing a little bit and I kind of calmed down with racing. But then once we broke up, I got back into it and so my goal was just be a professional racer my whole life.
Speaker 2:Were you ever sponsored? Oh yeah, yeah, oh okay, yeah, several sponsors. People hooking you up with bikes oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5:Companies and yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I used to get paid to wear vans.
Speaker 5:You know, we got contingency money for how we placed in the race, so you know. Hence, I have a lot of fans vans and I I still wear them. You see me, yeah I'm wearing right now.
Speaker 1:What size are you? 12?
Speaker 5:I'm gonna come raid your closet dude so anyway, but you know, so that's if we want to talk about levels of sin or evil or worseness. That's as far as I got you know, because I always had that conviction to some degree. And so after high school I'm like what am I gonna do with my life?
Speaker 2:were you hanging out with kids that were using dope? Were you hanging out with kids that were using dope? Were you hanging out with kids that were smoking dope? Thank you for that question.
Speaker 5:No, because so. My mother smoked when I was a child, and she quit years later but I hated it. Cigarettes, yeah, I hated the smell.
Speaker 5:I hated everything about it. To this day, I hate the smell. I don't like yeah, it's just, it's gross to me it's a gross habit. Um so you know, I didn't have friends that smell. All my friends were athletes, football players, or they raced. A lot of them are racers we travel around and and the girls I dated were athletic. I mean they, they could kick your butt. They were weight, weight lifters, and I mean they were strong um yeah, so none of them are using drugs none of them were, but I had other friends, like I was friends.
Speaker 5:So you know, back back in high school days like that I don't know about now, but the groups were really segregated. They in the sense that we had cowboys.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we had punkers, we had the jocks we had the stoners the nerd, yeah, the stoners the rockers.
Speaker 5:Um, I hung out with the rockers who weren't stoners and I heard, heard. I hung out with a lot of the cowboys. Yeah, um, one of my good friends, he actually was killed. He died. He fell off the back of a truck drinking because he was drunk and his head had a rock. He was an actor, he was good looking kid, lived right behind me and he was really popular and his head had a rock. He was an actor. He was a good-looking kid, lived right behind me and he was really popular.
Speaker 1:You ever had long hair. Huh, you ever had long hair.
Speaker 5:I did.
Speaker 4:I had a mullet man, Did you? Yeah, I can show you pictures.
Speaker 1:Oh, I got to see that. Bring them tomorrow. I want to see them.
Speaker 5:So anyway. So I thought you know I was going to continue racing.
Speaker 2:Go in the military.
Speaker 5:I thought about the Marines oh wow. I thought that would be easy. Wow, because back then it would have been a cinch with my athletic ability.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you were.
Speaker 5:I was in top physical condition yeah.
Speaker 2:And having to run or do push-ups. I was thinking, even the SEALs, you know. Wow, you actually were really thinking about it. Yeah, I was thinking special ops.
Speaker 5:Why didn't you go? Because I decided to become a police officer instead.
Speaker 1:Really Wow.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I was doing it. Was this mom telling you, abel, you're not going to be a pro biker, you need to figure something out, no, no out. This was nothing.
Speaker 5:This was me realizing that, you know, I'm not going to be able to race my whole life. Okay, so what kind of occupation can I have?
Speaker 4:that will sustain me.
Speaker 5:Yeah, you know, and every athlete has a shelf life. Yeah, bro. To where they're not as good and not as fast. Yeah, now I'm still blazing fast on a bike. You know, I'll take on anyone on a race and I'll I'll win. And I say, I always say, hey, put some money on it.
Speaker 5:I need a few bucks, you want to put 20 bucks, 30 bucks? Okay, get on the bike, let's go. So, um, I've done that several times in one. So uh, so I was, I was considering the military and I thought that'd be easy, you know, and, um, I thought that'd be a cool career. My older brother was a marine and I thought that's noble. You know, I I remember thinking I want to do something noble, something that's good for the community, for for me, for others, to help people always cared for people, yeah. And so, um, I uh, I considered and I was like, well, I saw they were recruiting for Mesa Police Department and I'm like, let's do that. So I went for the testing and the hard part was the written part of the test. You know, I didn't know. Again, I went through all four years of high school, but I just didn't care, I wasn't dumb.
Speaker 5:You weren't applying yourself, I wasn't applying myself because of my low self-esteem, yeah, and the because of my track record in school, I thought I can't. I can't do it. So I had part of me. I knew I wasn't dumb, but part of me was like I'm dumb yeah okay, so I'm just a dumb jock, right?
Speaker 5:So I really had low self-esteem in school. A lot of failure, hardly any success. So I'm like, eh, so I had to take my GED before I could test for the police department and I took the test. Whether this is God or not, you be the judge. I'm horrible at math. That's why, when you said what, what was here? And I'm like, oh, numbers with me are just, I have I have to look at things or write it down.
Speaker 5:they're beautiful, numbers are beautiful without numbers yeah, not to me beautiful mind yeah, so math is my worst subject I can add I can subtract, I can simple division and I can get by in life. Don't ask me to do algebra, forget it.
Speaker 2:Angles are not your specialty.
Speaker 5:I like the angles because it was artistic when I was artistic growing up. I didn't mention that. Have you ever seen them post where they put?
Speaker 1:up math equations and like, oh, what's the answer? I kill them every time. Oh, really, that's amazing.
Speaker 5:I can't do that. Love it, you're a genius then yeah, I can't do it. So I you know I had to take my GED and I went to Jobson High. They were offering GED classes and you know the test. I took it in the library and I'm like Lord, how am I going to get through the math portion?
Speaker 2:Yeah, what year is this?
Speaker 5:Oh gosh, again you're asking.
Speaker 1:No 87, 86, 87. You're like 20?.
Speaker 5:I guess 20. Yeah, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:So, see you're going to I can't add up my head like that. I have to write it down 87, because you were born in 67.
Speaker 5:Yeah. I guess, yeah, guess somewhere around there, don't hold me to the timeline so you passed the GED and go into the academy.
Speaker 5:I ticked the GED and it was two days. I had to come back the second day it was math and I'm stressing out. I'm like, how am I going to get through the math? I open it up, a couple of questions, simple. I'm like, okay, turn the page goes into geometry, algebra, like oh my gosh, every in the booklet, which is supposed to be a new booklet booklet someone had used this booklet and they circled all the answers and guess what I'm like?
Speaker 5:I can't figure that out. I'm going to go with that Bubble sheet, right? Yeah, I'm ace the math and I suck at math. And I'm like okay, thank you Lord, okay, thank you God's favor. Does God help you cheat? I don't know, I mean let's get into theology that later? I don't I mean let's get everything.
Speaker 1:I'll let you that later. I don't know.
Speaker 5:But uh, that booklet was filled out and I passed the math yeah that's all I needed, amen.
Speaker 5:So my, I got my gd and I was so psyched. To me that was a big accomplishment. I I started applying for the, the cadet, you know, and the academy, and, and and the hard part was the writing portion. Cause I wasn't a good writer, because you know again school English and who needs English? Right, so I will. I was always a good reader. I read all the time, mainly motocross magazines and stuff like that, but I was always reading, so I was trucking.
Speaker 5:Yeah, mine was trucking, yeah, but I was always reading so I was trucking yeah, I was trucking, trucking, yeah, yeah. So yeah, I was always good at reading and I think I like the lowrider.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love magazines the bikini careful now, yeah, so.
Speaker 5:Trasher magazine yeah.
Speaker 3:I take pictures of those now they pay me to do it.
Speaker 2:I love this guy anyway.
Speaker 5:So um so uh, I started applying but I I couldn't pass some of the the tests. And then they ask you, ask me questions. Have you ever been drunk?
Speaker 1:no, you know have you been high?
Speaker 5:done any marijuana drugs? No, no, no. They thought I was lying really like like really, yeah, I never. I've never been high, I've never been drunk, I have no desire I've been an athlete yeah a good portion of my kid life yeah no, they're like okay, so I I didn't. That didn't go so well so like okay gosh because I thought, man, being a police officer, I can go back to the community, help people. It's a and it's an honorable position and I thought that'll sustain me.
Speaker 1:I was protecting you from that.
Speaker 5:So, going through that all of a sudden, I my mom at that time because for a while after the divorce my mom didn't go to church consistently. She was hurt by the church, and I get it.
Speaker 1:You know I was hurt by the church. Well, they abandoned her man.
Speaker 5:Come on, yeah, when she needed them most.
Speaker 2:Right, and I hate to see it, but that's how churches are sometimes.
Speaker 5:That's how church people are we bury our own Yep.
Speaker 4:It's horrible, yep.
Speaker 5:Anyway, I try not to so um reality though. Yeah it is, it's so sad, but so um. So she at that around that time she's going back to church consistently. She finds a little church in mesa and she's like abel, come visit with your girlfriend you know, to me at that point it's like I don't need to go to church, it's not really relevant yeah you know, I still had a relationship with God.
Speaker 5:I still would pray, I felt close to some degree, even though I knew I wasn't fully living right, but I felt like he never turned his back on me. Yeah, and so, long story short, I decided to go to a church service and they were having a revival in Phoenix. You know the denomination. And before that, let me back up. All of a sudden I start thinking about this place and I have this picture in my mind. And it was a beautiful, like rolling hill, glass grass, green grass, beautiful pine trees. It was this beautiful place and I talked to my mom about it. I said, mom, I need to go to this place. She goes. Where is it? And I explain it. She goes well, drive around. So, literally, I drive around the valley looking for this location. It was so much on my mind and I could see it so perfectly in my mind. I'm like this drive me bananas am I going crazy.
Speaker 1:Think of it when I let it go yeah, the the old movie.
Speaker 5:Close encounters of the guy remember how he's like in his mashed potatoes he's carving out the mountain yeah in wyoming yeah it was like that I wasn't carving, I wasn't, but I was like, where is this place? And I could see it perfectly. So my mom invited me into church. I'm like, all right, so we go to church and hold on, I'm trying to get my timeline right. Yeah, I went to a church service and the spirit was moving really strongly and during the altar call I I sat in the back because I felt convicted right center's row.
Speaker 1:Buddy right, you hear that everyone last row, center's row. Sometimes it's the back, just to listen just to observe, but anyway.
Speaker 5:so I'm sitting in the back row and my girlfriend at the time went to the front and I later married her. But she went to the front and she's repenting, or, you know, asking for forgiveness, and she's crying and I'm sitting there and the worship leader kept trying to get my eye contact and I'd be like, can I look up?
Speaker 5:And that went on for a little bit and I'm feeling convicted like I need to do something, but I wasn't sure what. And all of a sudden I look at her and her eyes lock. It's like laser lock, yeah. And she looks at me. She goes Abel and I couldn't hear her, but she said it. I could read her lips. You need to get down here now. And I'm like, Wow, and I got up. Yeah, it scared me.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and I got. I went down there beside my girlfriend and I and I got on my knees. There was a wooden altar and I got on my knees and I see her weeping and I'm like I really didn't know what to do and I bowed my head and I said I just said, lord, I don't know what to say. And I put my head down and I said I don't know what to say, but and I knew you- know I knew I I wasn't living the way I should.
Speaker 5:Yeah, Because of hanging out with girls and being sexual active and stuff like that. And I said I'm sorry I lost it. Wow, I just sorry I lost it. I just broke. I started heaving tears of repentance so hard. I never cried that hard in my life. I'm getting teared up thinking about it. I was just weeping so much. The water's coming off of me and snot's coming out of my nose.
Speaker 4:It's stranding down to the altar.
Speaker 2:That's the good one, dude, and.
Speaker 5:I'm like convulsed. I'm like, you know, I was so broken. The Holy Spirit just touched me and I knew that from being a kid, I knew what was going on. But, yeah, part of me also didn't understand it because, you know, I'd kind of been hardened over the years of not being fully where I should be with God, and so I just wept and wept and wept and I pretty much was one of the last people at the church. I mean, people were done praying and my girlfriend was sitting there with me holding my hand and the worship leader was hanging out and she's actually come to this church now. Really, the worship leader, wow and um, so I'm just, I'm uh, I'm just broken and I repent, and that's all I said. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. And then, once I was done crying, I felt so clean. Yeah, I felt and maybe you can attest to this, but I felt I felt like literally someone had just washed me and cleansed me and, uh, I all of a sudden started that's where jesus says yeah I felt like a new person.
Speaker 5:I opened my eyes and everything was like brighter yeah, yeah, you see colors different. It's like the sun looks different, yeah wow, and a lot, of, a lot of that anger and just stuff that had built up with yours just lifted.
Speaker 2:Yeah and I felt the crud, yeah, the crud of the yeah, the crud of
Speaker 5:life and I just felt that cleansing and I started laughing because I felt so good and I could not stop, it kept going and I'm, and I'm like why am I laughing so hard?
Speaker 1:you know the holy laughter they call it get your joy back. I just I could not stop.
Speaker 5:I could not stop and I laughed for a good, I don't know 20-30 minutes. Oh yeah, and people are just, they're smiling and they're like, oh awesome you know, praise God like oh, awesome you know pretty good, and when I calmed down to where I could talk, because I was laughing so hard I couldn't talk yeah, and I'm like what in the world? I never had this experience, yeah, so um, so, uh, so anyway, I, I, yeah, I I left and I was, I felt, changed and I, from that point on, I'm like you were, I was I was different and so that's my god.
Speaker 5:At that point I was like maybe I don't need to become a police officer. And so with this, this vision and this picture I had in my head, um, later, a few weeks later, my mom invites me to the camp meeting or revival they were having downtown with all the churches of the denomination. She goes, you want to go? They're going to have a band from a college in California and you'll probably like it. They sing contemporary Christians. I said at first I was like nah, but I was like, yeah, I'll go. So me and my girlfriend went and and we sat there and and there was a band that had come from California, fresno, california called West Coast Christian Singers, and they sing some you know Carmen songs. I'm dating myself now with Carmen Different Christian songs and it was really good.
Speaker 5:And one of the guys was a drummer and I knew him because we attended the same church when I was a kid. His name was Jared and I'm like, oh, I know him. So I went up and talked to him and he goes oh, I know him. So I went up and talked to him and he goes yeah, I'm out in college in California, at Fresno West Coast Christian College. I said, wow, he goes. Yeah, why don't you go out in the foyer? He goes the lobby, he goes. They got a table information if you're interested. Okay, yeah, I'll check it out when I leave. I go out. My mom was was down front praying with people and stuff and I go out front to lobby with my girlfriend and I look at their tables. They have tables like this set up with a backdrop, and they got pictures and I walk up like there it is, there's that picture.
Speaker 5:Wow, exactly hill wow, and you know the picture was of um the grassy woodland hills park in fresno, california. Wow, and I said I looked at. My girlfriend said that there's the picture, that's it. She goes. What I said, that's what I've been seeing in my head for months. There it is. And I went and got my mom and said Mom, come here. And I took her out there and I said look at that picture. That's what's been in my head for months.
Speaker 2:She goes. Well, you know what that?
Speaker 5:means don't you? I said no, it means you're going to school. Maybe God wants you to go to college. I said college. I'm a high school dropout. What do you mean? College? I don't want to abuse myself and go to school again.
Speaker 2:God has such a sense of humor. He loves it.
Speaker 5:He loves taking the foolish ones Long story short you know, I'm now married, and to my first wife, carrie, and we head off to Fresno, california, wow, wow. And at the end in August, for the, the, the, the August, not the August, the school year.
Speaker 4:The school year the school year.
Speaker 5:Thank you, yeah, brain fart yeah, so um fall semester.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Fall, fall.
Speaker 5:I was looking for that fall semester. So we get there, and we're there a little early and we lived on campus in the marriage dorms and, um, she signed up to go to school too. Yeah, yes, she took a couple classes, but she worked. She wasn't sure what she was going to do. She got a job on campus as a secretary.
Speaker 5:Then she worked at a fabric store. We made a buy and I worked for a company assembly company. I still would race at the tracks out there in California a little bit. Did you ever make money doing that? Yeah, I was a professional.
Speaker 1:I don't know what a professional bike racer makes.
Speaker 5:Enough to pay rent. You can make a good chunk of money.
Speaker 2:Really yeah.
Speaker 5:So anyway.
Speaker 1:I don't know about clothing with that design you sent me.
Speaker 2:Huh, Dad, you got an eye. You're made for this bud. I said I don't know about clothing with that design you sent me hey, we're going to make some cool clothing.
Speaker 1:Little surfer dude yeah misplaced surfer, he'll come up with some good stuff.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, just let him have freedom. I got some ideas so, um, anyway.
Speaker 5:So we're now. I'm now at bible college. I don't know how to do horrible math. I didn't have to take math right yeah, you struggle with writing.
Speaker 2:You just know how to read a good reader.
Speaker 5:Yeah, but I couldn't write for beans, so the first semester I'm flunking out. I'm trying my best and.
Speaker 5:I'm really applying myself, but I'm getting bad grades because I don't know how to write my English papers, my research, research, what's that? I'm taking basic Bible Some of the Bible classes I'm doing okay in, but I didn't know how to study. I didn't know how to study for exams, so I'm literally flunking out. Second semester in spring I'm flunking out again. And they called me in the academic advisor and he said look, um, you gotta get your grades up or we kick you out.
Speaker 5:I'm like okay and I'm thinking up, or we kick you out. Yeah, like okay and I'm thinking okay. So my success in schooling education was horrible and I think, okay, another failure. I'm just I suck, let me just get out of here you know, so I'm down on myself, and then another self-esteem killer, yeah, yeah and so during that time, while I was there, I made a lot of good friends and they helped me.
Speaker 5:A lot of kids that were on fire for God, passionate about the gospel, everything that really helped me grow in that enclosed community. It was almost like I was taken out of the world for a little bit and put in this tight knit Christian community because it wasn't a big college and everyone got to know everybody. You were friends with the professors. They'd invite you over for dinner. You went to the churches they went to. You hung out with the other students. That was the greatest part.
Speaker 1:Was it like a real school or was it like a school at a church?
Speaker 5:No, it was a real college. It was their own campus.
Speaker 1:West.
Speaker 5:Coast Christian College denominational college. The big college back east is Lee, which is a big university.
Speaker 1:This was a college, not a quote university right all right.
Speaker 5:So yeah, it was. It was a one big christian family yeah and we all dealt with our struggles and joys and it was great. So I grew exponentially just over that time. We I did street with witnessing, we did street preaching. We we went to nursing homes, minister, we went. I got a lot of ministry experience Was that your first time experiencing church family. Like that yeah Community, yeah community. I just soaked it up a little bit Going to church is way different than being involved in the community.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's way different, completely different.
Speaker 5:So, and I guess I was a little bit rebel because everyone pretty much went to the church of God, churches in the area. Well, I went to the church of God churches and like he's like kind of lame, yeah, not to be mean. I was like I went to an assembly God church downtown Fresno and I loved it. The pastor, pastor Terry Bates. I love that guy to this day. He's in Oklahoma now, but that church rocked. Their worship was amazing.
Speaker 5:His preaching was hands down amazing and I just I fell in love, so to speak. I'm like this is amazing, yeah, but I got ridiculed because the the college was a denominational college.
Speaker 2:They're like oh they're all going to church you go to the assemblies of god, which is I guess bad, and I'm I'm.
Speaker 5:You know, I didn't grow up churchy like that. So I'm like, whatever you guys, I could care less what you think I'm going to this church this is where I get fed and I I can minister, so I feel in love the church.
Speaker 5:anyway, I got involved with a lot of ministries and um and that gave me some experience. Well, I was doing better in the I didn't get kicked out Obviously. Um, I was doing better in the grades, slowly bringing them up, which slowly built my confidence. I can look back now and say God used college to get you confident, confident, wow, I love that.
Speaker 5:So, and here's one thing, here's another big staple in my life Um, some friends and here's one thing, here's another big staple in my life Some friends are like let's go to Fresno State. We were down the street from Fresno State University, yeah the Bulldogs, yeah, bulldogs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm sorry, I am a sports addict.
Speaker 5:I hear sports.
Speaker 2:I know I even know the mascots of college teams.
Speaker 1:Right right, you hit the addict. Part right yeah, recovering.
Speaker 5:Yeah recovering, so I got a group for that so um we went to the Fresno state and there was a big um gay pride rally and seminar they were doing, so you?
Speaker 1:know back then, huh oh yeah, liberal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so where it started.
Speaker 5:So they were. You know, some of the students from the. Let's go witness to them, lead them to jesus. I'm like, okay, yeah, so we go, there's a lot of gay people and uh, so we start talking to them and, man, they, they're fiery. Yeah, they were fired up. We came into their territory, we stirred up their hornet's nest, right. So they're aggressive and I'm just talking to them casual, but some of my, some of my colleagues can't handle it and they decided to leave. So I'm there pretty much by myself, with maybe one or two other people that are way over there, and I've got 50 angry people gay pride people around me, and I'm not being mean, I'm just talking to them about the Bible they didn't want to hear it
Speaker 1:they were being mean they were being aggressive. I was very kind.
Speaker 5:One guy comes up and he starts grilling me questions about the Bible and he's like, well, you know, homosexuality in the Greek is blah, blah, blah. And he's talking about all these Greek and Hebrew and I'm like I didn't know what he was talking about. I was lost. And I'm like I didn't know what he was talking about. I'm like, oh, I was lost and I did the best I could, but I walked away feeling a little defeated from that event, um, you know, and I thought for a moment, I thought I was going to get jumped. I was like I'm going to have to drop my Bible and start swinging fists.
Speaker 1:And I'm the.
Speaker 5:I mean I do my best to turn the other cheek, but I'm not so good at it. Yeah, you know, I'll give you a little bit cheek and then I'm gonna wail. Yeah, so, so. So I didn't get jumped because I were surrounding me and angry and yelling, and I'm just talking calm to this guy who's just drilling me with Bible.
Speaker 1:I couldn't answer the questions.
Speaker 5:And I left going Made you feel inadequate. Huh, I did, and I'm like Made.
Speaker 2:You want to learn more.
Speaker 5:Uh-huh, yeah, I was like gosh. I don't even know.
Speaker 2:Study to show yourself approved.
Speaker 5:I don't even know enough about what I believe in to be able to talk to someone who's not even saved. Hello somebody.
Speaker 2:So I'm like Do I even know what I believe? Right, it's real.
Speaker 1:I'm like huh. It's amazing how much those who are opposed to the Bible know the Bible.
Speaker 4:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's crazy.
Speaker 5:They know it the wrong way.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, but so I was like huh okay, and I prayed about it, I'm like lord, that was terrible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just got beat up. Yeah, verbally, you know.
Speaker 5:Yeah and I'm like what I can do, change this. You know, I started praying about it and it really can start to convict me and I'm like I'm gonna know the bible yeah. So I my my major was pastoral because I thought, okay, I'll be a pastor. I didn't know I just picked pastoral over there at western west coast christian college I switched my major from pastoral to more academic in the sense of now I'm going to take.
Speaker 2:I thought you were going to say apologetics no, that's part of it but now I'm going to take the languages because I thought this guy's trying to do it sitting, sitting there using Hebrew and Greek, on you Rolling me over with Hebrew and Greek.
Speaker 5:And now I look back I'm like he didn't know what he's talking about. He was just blowing smoke, he wasn't making any sense.
Speaker 4:But I didn't know.
Speaker 5:So I changed my major and I'm in Greek one the next semester, and it was kicking my beard. It was hard but I learned it. I applied myself. Everything else became. I learned evangelism. I learned and I loved evangelism and so I started excelling in the grades, doing really good, and the languages and other my colleagues. They wouldn't take the languages. I'm not going to take that, it's too hard. We started with 10 people in our Greek 1 basic class. We ended up with four. Wow, because everyone dropped.
Speaker 4:Yeah, but it is difficult, I kept going.
Speaker 5:I went to Greek 2, 3, 4.
Speaker 4:Wow.
Speaker 5:So that was at West Coast.
Speaker 2:Christian College Wow man.
Speaker 5:During that time we had the denomination had a big conference in California, the state conference. They we had the denomination had a big conference in California the state conference. They invited Reinhard Bonnke to speak.
Speaker 4:You know who he is yeah.
Speaker 5:So they asked the students hey, will you be helpers, will you be ushers? Help with people getting seats, help the chairs, help whatever you need? And the pastors were all in, local pastors. And I'm like, okay, cool, so I fasted for a week. I'm like, okay, cool, so I fasted for a week. I'm like Lord, I don't know what to expect. But man, when I'm here this week it was a whole week thing, services in the evening, during the day I'm like I don't know, speak to me you know, I wasn't sure, I wasn't asking for any direction.
Speaker 5:Just help me to grow, god so the whole week. I was just being blessed helping people, you know. And uh, reinhard bonky came in the last two nights. He speaked that one night and I'm like, holy cow, this guy, yeah, the fire oh and I was like, wow, he's praying for people and I'm like, wow, I've never been around that physically. Yeah, I mean, growing up I saw it, yeah, that's that's.
Speaker 2:It's different to when you're in the building. Yeah, that's different. It's different when you're really into it now too.
Speaker 5:So yeah so, um, so anyway, the next night was the last night and uh, and they said, um, he preached and everything. I was like wow, and then a pastor came up to me. Everyone was close down the congregation, people were gone the visitors.
Speaker 5:Pastor Dan Mastin, I remember his name. He comes up, he's like the cowboy. He comes up and he goes. Hey, abel, he goes. Can you come back here? We need your help. We need a couple other guys. We we got a group of people that are going to be prayed for. I said, yeah, whatever you need, and we stand the I. I go back behind the curtains of this big auditorium and, uh, I see all these people. I didn't know who they were, but they looked for like from another country. They lined them up two lines. There's probably 150, I don't know. It was a big auditorium. And yeah, and I'm like okay, and I said, what do you need me to do? He goes standing behind him okay yeah, I had no idea yeah.
Speaker 5:And so he says reinhardt bonkey is gonna come out and brave for him in a couple minutes. They asked for special prayer. I said oh. So I stood back there, reinhardt, reinhardt.
Speaker 5:But I watched him like a hawk because I observed people all the time he comes out and he, he, uh, he's praying lord bless, you know in his german accent. And he's he. He raises his hands and he mumbles some kind of prayer and then he goes down to that side I'm over here to the side and he starts laying hands on them. Boom, boom, boom.
Speaker 5:They're just going down like dead flies yeah and I'm like holy cow and and uh, they come to me and people just I couldn't even catch them. They're falling off. They're falling that hard, yeah, and they're weeping and crying and I've never been anything in that, the first time I ever experienced something like that. And I backed up and I'm stunned. I'm like wow, and I'm looking like this. I'm like wow and and he, he's done praying goodbye and he walks off yeah I'm like okay, see ya, yeah, you just left casualties everywhere yeah
Speaker 5:they were playing in the spirit, first time I experienced that I've seen it, I've been around it in church, but not right there, so close.
Speaker 2:It's really when you're in the glory. It's different man.
Speaker 5:And so yeah. So I'm like what just? Happened. I'm backing up and I'm just looking.
Speaker 2:Did you feel drunk? Well, you never drank or stoned. You don't know, I don't know, what that feels, like it just.
Speaker 5:What did it feel like? Here's what happened. I was in a sense of awe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was like what, so I backed up. Did you feel the presence of God?
Speaker 5:Well, let me tell you what happened.
Speaker 1:Sorry. I'm excited You're getting ahead of me.
Speaker 5:I'm like wow, I'm just standing there, stunned and I'm watching these people who I don't know where they're from, but I know they're from somewhere else and they're weeping and crying and just on the floor and they're, you know, sitting up and they're weeping and just God was touching them.
Speaker 5:I'm like wow, all of a sudden I hear this voice and the voice says very convicting. I went like this, I kind of cowered. Yeah, the voice said you will see a day when these peoples are touched. Now go prepare yourself, wow. And I was like, and I'm looking around and my colleagues around me and they're looking at me like abel's losing it yeah, what did that?
Speaker 5:what did it? What did he say? You will see you. You will see Very firm I can't even replicate it Very firm and convicting. You will see, no, no, no. Look into their eyes, and I'm like I was looking. Look into their eyes. You will see a day when these people are touched. Now go prepare yourself that was exact. Okay, and all of a sudden, when I heard that and again, I don't care if you don't- believe me you know, god doesn't speak. Well, that's you okay.
Speaker 4:I believe you, brother, I believe you again. I'm no one special.
Speaker 5:I don't claim to be. You don't have to call me prophet or apostle, just call me Abel.
Speaker 5:Call you homie call me homie, friend and you know, what happens to me has happened to other people around the world many times over yeah. So I'm no one special, I'm not trying to be anyone special, but the I heard this. It was so clear and loud like it was all around me. Yeah, man, I can't. I can't describe it was spiritual, I can't describe in human explanation of what happened, amen. But it was there and my colleagues were right there and I said, did you hear that? And I'm starting to weep and they're like hear what yeah, and.
Speaker 5:I lost it, just like I did at the altar. Yeah, yeah, there was a chair. I sat down and snot's coming out of my face and I'm crying and I'm shaking because it just touched me so much and I'm crying and I'm shaking because it just touched me so much.
Speaker 5:And my wife comes over. She's like you, okay, I was like I can't even talk, I'm like I was a mess. And now I have my friends, colleagues come over, they're just watching me and they realize God touched me somehow. So they're curious and they're waiting Once I calm down and I'm wiping the tears and they bring me tissues and I'm like you, wiped the snot off. I mean, it's all over the place.
Speaker 5:That's a good one and I said they said what happened. I said I was over there helping these people and I said God spoke to me. You didn't hear it. And I'm asking you didn't hear. We didn't hear nothing. I said how could you not hear it? It was everywhere. And I said it was so loud. And they said we didn't hear nothing. I'm like and I started crying again. You know, and my wife's just rubbing my back and and uh. So I said who are those people? And there's, some of them are still there. They said they're russians. That's from russia, yeah, and my wife goes does this mean we're going to?
Speaker 5:russia and I looked at her I said I don't know and I'm still crying. I don't know, I don't know. I'm trying to make sense of what just happened it just blew me away I never had that, you know, other than when I was a kid.
Speaker 5:But when I was a kid it seemed so natural and it didn't a kid. But when I was a kid it seemed so natural and it didn't startle me. But at this age I'm like whoa. That just rocked me. The fear of god it was. It was so convicting and humbling. I felt so. I didn't feel unloved, I felt the love, but I was just like what did you say?
Speaker 2:what in the beginning at your one that you had when you were five? It was love. Felt this overwhelming love by God. In this one, you're talking about the fear of God.
Speaker 4:It's a totally different nature character side of God.
Speaker 5:But he's both. I got another experience. I'll tell you that these three experiences my healing, that and that they're crucial. So I was just trying to figure it out and I told my friends what happened. They were like wow, and I had fasted the whole week when I fast, I don't eat anything, just give me water and I can sustain a fast for a long time. I don't know, when I fast it's like I have the super ability to just fast. No juice, just give me water so.
Speaker 5:I fasted the week before asking God speak to me somehow. So, show me something. Amen, there was so um yeah it rocked me. So, you know, a couple, a couple months went by and I'm praying about it. I'm like, what is, what is all this? What does this mean? And just long story short cause it. And just long story short because it's kind of a long progression. A year later, I was in russia preaching for the first time ever wow, wow to thousands of russians, wow so wow, um, I started angelism dude.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I started telling people missionary just like I was over there, like ryan hart bunky, I watched him and that's what I'm gonna to do, you know. So I was like you know.
Speaker 5:I have video of it. I'm preaching hard. So yeah, through that time I was broke college student. I didn't make enough money. How am I going to go to Russia Now? This was back during the coup attempt, when Gorbachev was in leadership and, I think, the KGB. They wanted control and he wanted more freedom, if I remember correctly. But I was there a week after the tanks rolled into the kremlin and there was going to be war. People were like tell me, don't go, you're not going to come back. I'm like I'm going yeah I'm going.
Speaker 5:God told me to go. Miraculously, the money came together for me. People gave money as I shared. I didn't. I didn't beg for money. I never asked for money. People said I want to support you. I had money to go. I had so much money to go that I gave money to the Russians and they bought vehicles and stuff for their churches. Wow, I just gave it away. Wow. So yeah, a year later I was there preaching and another guy went with me. How did you make a connection to get there?
Speaker 1:So there was a— I don't think you can just show up in Russia and start preaching.
Speaker 5:No, no, we had—oh gosh, I had to drive to the San Francisco Bay Area for visas. I had to get stamped. It was a bunch of loops.
Speaker 1:But did you meet a pastor or something in Russia that allowed you to—.
Speaker 5:Me and another guy went me, my wife, him and his wife. We went and, uh, he found out somehow a connection with this. The russian ministry yeah they were underground until the.
Speaker 5:You know the the and so they, they invited us over, and I was other than what's his name? Mario Morello. There's a short preacher guy used to be on TV. We were one of the first Americans in Russia, and Christians to boot. I was one of the first ones in Moscow. This is all during, when the walls fell and the Kremlin, the tanks. It was communist and Christians to boot. I was one of the first ones in Moscow. Wow, this is all during, when the walls fell and the Kremlin, the tanks.
Speaker 1:It was communists yeah.
Speaker 5:Oh, we had KGB following us around. They got saved.
Speaker 4:I'm like you can save.
Speaker 5:So yeah, we were there, and I had never preached before in my life. Really.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 5:I had done street witnessing and I never formulated a sermon, never preached before in my life. Really, yeah, I had done, you know, street witnessing and stuff. I never, formulated a sermon and I wasn't sure really how to preach other than what I've seen on TV or, you know, at church. So I went with it, and the first day we get there A Holy. Spirit? Huh, a Holy Spirit? Well, I prepared myself. You know, if you prepare yourself, the Holy Spirit uses a whole lot more than just trying to wing it because people try to wing it.
Speaker 5:Sometimes it's say it's the holy spirit and it's not it's just they're failed in their attempt to prepare amen for their own laziness that's how I see it, but uh yeah, it's like okay, you said that's holy spirit, but you didn't make any sense.
Speaker 3:You know, whatever you got to have some preparation. Yeah, you got to.
Speaker 5:I mean, that's the whole Bible, that's you know, study the show yourself and prove.
Speaker 1:You got to be prepared.
Speaker 5:Just don't wing it. God's there when you have to wing it.
Speaker 5:But he wants you to prepare, but anyway. So no, I prepared a little sermon the best I could, and what we did is we would rotate. I would do a sermon on salvation, specifically how you can be saved, and then he would do a sermon on like praying for people, how you can be healed, and things like that. And holy mackerel, the things, the experiences we had straight out of the book of acts, no joke. Yeah, uh, god's, you know, god was moving in that nation because communism had just fallen.
Speaker 5:yeah, and we were there and so people were hungry. People were so hungry we had muslims, we had kgb, we had they just come down weeping. Yeah, we handed out bibles wow, that we had given money for the, the ministry group, to purchase, and people would just they wouldn't fight over them, but they were desperate making sure that we had enough. We had enough, yeah, and they just grabbed them. They're like one guy grabbed one. I never forget. He just grabbed and held and he's weeping. I'm like, oh my gosh, how many bottles do I have? This guy just got one and so Never seen him before, bro, yeah, no.
Speaker 5:And so it was amazing. We saw, we gave altar calls, you know, and God knows their heart. They came down but they gave their hearts to God and it was genuine. They were crying, repenting, just like I did, you know, on the altar and they were being touched and we were in probably the biggest auditorium was about 12,000 people.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 5:We were in auditoriums. They took me to colleges because I was really good at speaking English, yeah, and they recorded me for their classes on English, wow, and they had me read stuff. Then they'd say preach the students. We went to elementary schools, we went to colleges, universities. They took us to a hospital because we had one service where, again, people may not believe this, I don't care, I was there, I saw it with my own eyes.
Speaker 5:We had so many healings, wow People being blind healed, people in wheelchairs walking it just. It was amazing. I didn't touch them. Some of them, I prayed for Some of them. I didn't touch it wasn't me, it was fully God.
Speaker 2:Yeah you know and people like oh, he uses people, yeah, he uses people, and yeah.
Speaker 5:So you know people are like oh, you got God uses you through healing, you got a healing ministry. I'm like I just want to serve God, I don't claim to be a healer.
Speaker 1:I'm not a healer.
Speaker 5:God is the healer, you know, and so, but we had so many healings, no joke. A medical team said we have a hospital, will you come? And you know, there's some guy out, there's some guy that really hates people to believe in healing. He's a cessationist and he's I'm not going to mention his name, but he just to me he's a jerk. I don't like him, but I remember he's like well, if you really had healing, why don't you go in the hospitals? And I'm like shut up, that's a dumb go empty him out, that's a stupid argument and did Jesus go?
Speaker 5:The people followed him and he healed them and cured them, and we don't have any record of Jesus going to the hospital. Hey, let me heal you. How old were you when?
Speaker 2:you get back In my 20s, in your 20s. I don't know.
Speaker 5:Again numbers. If you want timeline, I can write it up figure it out. Nowhere in.
Speaker 1:Scripture. Do I remember reading anywhere where Jesus healed somebody that didn't want healing? Yeah, I don't think so. Also, the people he asked do you want to be healed? Or the lady with the issue of blood, or your faith made you well who touched me?
Speaker 2:Or the one guy his friends had the faith.
Speaker 5:But his friends had the faith, yeah. So this medical team said we have a hospital with a lot of sick people. Will you come and pray that they be healed? I said, yeah, I'll go anywhere. If God can heal them here in this auditorium, he can heal them there at the hospital so let's do it. So they took us to the hospital. We prayed for a bunch of people. Some were healed, some weren't, I don't know.
Speaker 4:God did it.
Speaker 5:But when we went in there and went out, people were like holy cow and they thanked us. They were so appreciative. The Russian people are beautiful people, so kind, and they were like thank you so much for coming. Oh, thank you. I met governors. I met governors of regions and provinces. They're like we're going to take you to the governor and preach to him.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 4:I'm like holy cow.
Speaker 5:A guy never preached before. Now all of a sudden I'm preaching to governors. We had KGB get saved. We had Muslims get. The Muslims loved. They loved hearing about Jesus and they're like we never know, they were just blown away.
Speaker 5:We had one service and here's you know people argue against tongues, okay, whatever. Again, you know, we had a little Russian guy with our team. He didn't know any English. We talked through interpreters and stuff. We knew he didn't know any English at all and he would always pray, kind of like we have people here pray behind the scenes. He was our little prayer warrior, a really nice guy, always smiling, and so he's back praying and we were done with the service. Again, I would, I would preach a message on salvation. People would respond um then dennis was his name. He'd get up do a message on healing and we pray for the sick and vice versa. The next night or next event or place, I would preach on healing, he would preach.
Speaker 5:So we did that before so this night, um, I prayed for healing, we preached on healing and prayed for healing, and, uh, we asked them to come forward if they wanted to and I told them come slow. And so all of a sudden, before they came down, before I gave that call, I hear this little guy off on the side behind the curtains, going, walking back and forth and he's speaking perfect English and he says this my people are coming, get ready, my people are coming. My people are coming, get ready, my people coming. That's all he repeated. Yeah, and dennis, and I heard it.
Speaker 5:We looked over him like he's preening tongues yeah, he, he knew no lick, not even one minute minute anything of the english. Yeah, and we're, and we asked him later he goes. I don't know what I was saying.
Speaker 1:To mom.
Speaker 5:We told him this is what you were praying, yeah, and so he's saying that we're hearing the interpretation in English and all of a sudden, when I gave the call, the people I mean it was like a football game they rushed us, they came down so fast. They're coming up the stage I mean the stage was high, you know. They're coming up the steps and there's probably a good 5,000 plus, I don't know, and they're all coming like a sea of people. And I'm like, oh, holy cow, and I start backing up and my interpreter because the people are coming so quick, he gets pulled over to the side. And people are coming so quick, he gets pulled over to the side and people are coming to me and they want me to touch them.
Speaker 5:I'm like, oh, this is weird. And I'm backing up this grand piano, big black grand piano. I'm backing up, I can't go anymore. And I'm stuck up against the piano and they're pushing up against me. And they're pushing, I mean I'm bending over backwards. I'm like, okay, I mean I'm bending over backwards. I'm like okay, and I said stop, stop, stop. I'm trying to communicate. I'm like where's Igor? That was my interpreter. Where's Igor? I'm yelling it out and people are crying and they want to touch me and I think it was because they come from an Orthodox background. They want the priest to whatever. I don't know. I don't know why they want to touch me. They want to touch me but they're wanting to touch me and they're grabbing at me and I'm pushing them Literally had to push them back. I said stop, stop, stop, just calm down. And they backed up a little bit and they just have these looks of desperation and I'm like how am I going to pray for all these people?
Speaker 1:Well, I'm going to pray for them.
Speaker 5:So I start praying for each one, quick and different things happen to each person and they're weeping and I don't know where Igor is. So I'm just praying for people. They don't understand me. I don't understand them. And I prayed for one lady. They were talking about something with the ears and I just grabbed her ears and I started praying.
Speaker 5:And she goes to the side and praying for other people trying to work my way through their crowd and someone grabs me from behind. They grab my shoulder and they turn me and they're blah, blah, blah in Russian, and they're pointing at her and she's on the floor and I'm like, oh no, did I just kill the lady? And she's on the floor, she's out. I don't know if she was dead, I don't know if she's, I don't know what happened. And they were like and I went over to I'm like, oh my gosh, what happened? I get down and I check on her and she's not responding. I don't know if she.
Speaker 5:Honestly, I didn't have time to, it was so chaotic. I didn't know if she. Honestly, I didn't have time to, it was so chaotic, I didn't know if I I didn't have time to check her pulse. And I'm like so I just touched her, and you know, on the shoulders, and I prayed for her. And she comes popping up screaming and I'm like, I'm backing up. She's like, and all the people are like, and I'm like, what is going on? It was pandemonium. And she stands up. She's like, oh, she hugs me, she's giving me this big Russian lady bear hug.
Speaker 5:And she's I think she was Muslim or Orthodox because she had her head covered she's hugging me. I'm like okay, okay, and she's, you know, and I'm still having to pray, although I got people behind me. So literally we stayed there and prayed for all the people until they left and got a Bible and I was like holy cow. So the miracles and people are like, well, how come that happens in another country? We're not here. I think there's a lot of lack of hunger, bud Hunger.
Speaker 2:Here We've got comfort.
Speaker 5:Plus in other countries where the gospels can't be preached and now it can be preached. Yeah, man that's acts two all over again, yeah man. I mean that's, that's god moving, he's, he's gonna prove himself. And who are way to say that god cannot approve himself through?
Speaker 2:yeah, so you go to russia and see all this. When you come back from russia, you gotta be on fire. Oh gosh, yeah, so what?
Speaker 5:do you decide to do like a different person. So I was there for a full month. I wept when I left. I love the people so much I wanted to go back. But we came back and, uh, people want to hear. You know all the experiences. I was kind of shunned again because, um, that I wasn't. I didn't go through the denomination church of god, but dennis was supported by them a little bit. So guess what? He gets interviewed for the magazines, the papers, through the denomination and so on, and I didn't care.
Speaker 5:It bothered me a little bit. I was like gosh, we were both over there, we did both equal things, and he's the one that's getting all these accolades. I didn't care about the accolades, but I'm like at least acknowledge that I was there too I was treated like I wasn't even there with him.
Speaker 5:Wow, and it really tweaked me after a while, not that I didn't get those accolades, but that a denomination and group of people could be so petty because I didn't go through the church of God. You'd be so petty that you kind of push me to the side. I'm like I don't want to be around people like this. No, this is not my group. No, if you're going to treat me like that, that's not Christianity, that's not like Jesus.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm like, oh oh, my alarm's going off and people can't understand why there's church hurt.
Speaker 5:Yeah so you know, I was, I was really shunned and it became really evident. Like I said, you know, people used to pick on me for going not my friends, but it was a kind of a unspoken thing. Oh, he goes to the assembly of god church why do you think?
Speaker 1:that is because Because you still see it today. Oh yeah, People are territorial.
Speaker 5:I don't know. It's silly, it's retarded, we're all the church.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's silly. We're all the body of Christ, we're all the bride of Christ.
Speaker 5:That's why I don't get into denominations, I don't get into certain theological groups. I could care less. If you're a reformed person, if you're a charismatic, uh, believing Catholic, I don't care. If you're Lutheran, messianic, I don't care. Yeah, as long as you believe in Jesus and your theology is good and right and you treat people right.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 5:I don't. I could care less where you go to church you know, and the problem I mean the issues I have when people try to believe or teach some the something that the Bible doesn't teach. Like the Bible never teaches that healings have ceased yeah, never. You can't find it anywhere.
Speaker 4:Yeah, there's that one passage, but it doesn't really.
Speaker 5:it's not speaking about healings, um, uh, you know stuff like that, so, but anyway. So, um, that happened and I'm like you know what I don't know. So my heart started changing towards the being at the college. There I was, I was there, this was, I was going into my fourth year and I felt. I felt like God was leading me elsewhere.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 5:And oh are you.
Speaker 2:Nope, not yet. So, I I started looking around I thought he was going to upgrade. I'm going to a real Bible college. Well, I did upgrade.
Speaker 5:So I started looking around and I felt like I needed to leave, not because of that situation, but that was something that kind of steered the boat. Like you know what I want to be around people that just love God and who cares about politics and the business of our ministry.
Speaker 2:What church?
Speaker 5:you attend. I like that so my pastor, terry Bates, he, they had some. They talked about Southeastern, which is in Lakeland, florida, and I'm like, oh, it looks pretty good so I transferred there, not knowing, and I'm like, oh, it looks pretty good. And so I transferred there, not knowing yet I felt like I needed to leave, but I didn't know what was happening. I found out after I decided to transfer they're going to close down West Coast Christian College. They're like this is the last semester.
Speaker 2:It's like God knew what he was doing Exactly.
Speaker 5:I'm like ah well, I've got to figure it out. I left before the semester they closed down. That was the last year and I'm like God, thank you for taking care of me. So I ended up in.
Speaker 1:Lakeland, California. Why were they closing down?
Speaker 5:They have the University Lee which is their big main campus. They put a lot of resource and monies into in Tennessee and they just thought West Coast wasn't not not bringing enough students. We had what? 200, 250 students. It was a small it was like a family but it was. It was perfect for me at the time yeah Amen. But I was outgrowing it. So, yeah, I transferred to Lakeland, florida, and then I found out they're going to close the school.
Speaker 1:You hated college man or hated school. You're like almost four years into college going to another college.
Speaker 5:Yes, now I'm at Southeastern and guess what it was. Going from first grade to eighth grade, it's a little bit harder and I'm like, ooh, bigger college, bigger, bigger.
Speaker 4:More people.
Speaker 5:They had like 2,000 students Wow.
Speaker 4:Yeah, more people yeah.
Speaker 5:Yeah, bigger beautiful campus ponds with alligators. Don't swim in the ponds, Don't swim in the water In Florida you might run into an alligator. They're everywhere. I ran over one, so I was there for a while, Did you?
Speaker 5:make some boats with it. No, I, I just he was on the highway, I was like I'm not stopping, it felt like I ran over a log, um. So I was there for a little over a year and then from there, uh, I felt like I need to leave again and uh, I, a friend of mine from west coast, he was now, now at ORU, did you get your bachelor's from Southeastern?
Speaker 5:No, the thing is I didn't have enough credits from and because I transferred from West Coast, there were some credits that Southeastern wouldn't accept, so I had to retake classes.
Speaker 5:I actually have enough degrees for two. I have enough classwork for two undergraduate degrees full on, because I transferred then you know. So, long story short, I'm well. Let me back up while I'm in lakeland, because this is the third um big thing that happened to me. I'm working, I, I was done for a semester and I'm like, okay, we're gonna, we're probably gonna take off and um, I, uh, I showed up in lakeland not knowing where I was gonna live. My wife and I said god's gonna show us where to live. Wow, and we showed up, we, I, we found the campus. I said we're gonna leave around the campus and we drove down some streets. We see a little for rent sign for a duplex. I'm like, call the number. The owner lived right there, next to it, sweet old man, christian man. He comes out and he goes are you interested? He shows me around his little one bedroom, half kitchen, a bathroom, little living room. Wow, you want to rent it?
Speaker 5:Yeah, and we stayed there until we left and it was perfect because the guy that lives down the other side of the building which it was duplex, so they were a Christian couple from the college. Really sweet, so, anyway, so surrounded by your people, yeah, so I was, I was, and we just drove there Like I feel like I need to drive this down, down this road, boom.
Speaker 2:For rent. Let's talk to him.
Speaker 5:So that's how I found my house in Vegas too, god lead me, drove around for rent and the guy's last name same as me. I called him up. Yeah, my name is what, so anyway?
Speaker 5:that's another story so um, so uh. We uh were there and I, I was, I quit after a certain point because I'm like I'm gonna transfer. I applied to or you. They actually rejected me. I I'm like what? And then I called them. I said I got a rejection letter why? And they said oh, that was meant for someone else. You were supposed to get an acceptance letter. You're accepted, you can come. Wow. Thank you, so we were planning for that.
Speaker 5:So I was just working at a job where I assembled furniture and bicycles and barbecues things like that was called huffy for service. First I went to all these little towns. Anyway, through the work I pretty much wore out my lower back. I heard I had a herniation. I didn't know it at the time, but I was always having lower back pain and so one day I come from work and I wake up the next day and I can't walk, oh wow my right leg.
Speaker 5:I mean I could get up, but my right leg was dragging, it was killing the nerves. I'm like what in the world? So I?
Speaker 2:which was the hip or the ball? That was bad when you were a kid.
Speaker 5:This one, the left okay, this is this one. So I'm uh, I'm like panicking and I said and I'm praying god, what's going on, help me, I'm just frantic. And we get to the doctor. They said oh, you need to go see a neurologist. You're having issues, buddy. And they did an MRI. They said and he comes in and he goes oh, you've got a herniation, big herniation, l4, l5. It's pushing up and gets nerves. He goes we have to do immediate surgery or you're going to lose the use of your leg. Oh jesus, his name was dr bella garrigui, a really cool guy, and he had a limp. And I'm now I'm nervous, I'm like he's gonna make me crippled, just like you know all these weird things going on because I'm, I was freaking out like one day I can walk, the next day I can't yeah, so we get scheduled for surgery and I'm at that time I'm really like, lord, where are you?
Speaker 5:yeah, I feel abandoned for a moment. Where are you? I? Just, you know, I felt really down because I again, I always felt a kind of a certain specialness growing up even when I was, I felt that god was right there, but at this moment I'm like where? Are you god, you?
Speaker 5:know I go through the surgery. It was. It fixed everything, everything came back fast. Um, I was uh after the operation. I was uh hanging out home for a few days. About a week later I was still like god, why did this happen? This kind of horrible situation that put me in. Now I can't work and I'm gonna, you know, make, not make money. So it really bothered me. I mean, for some reason I felt really down over it. I felt like I was abandoned yeah, even though I wasn't, but I felt I just it felt so real, still felt that way yeah, so here's, here's the next big wow.
Speaker 5:So one night now my apartment it had you know it's shaped like this you had the living room, the front door, a little kitchenette, a bathroom, bedroom, the hall. So in the bedroom you could look down the hall and see the front door. Okay, at night when we go to bed there was a light between our duplex and the next apartment and it just was always on so we'd have, like this artificial light coming through the living room. We turn off all the lights, you can still kind of see there's enough light coming through the curtains. So I just go to sleep on a normal day and, you know, just praying about it all.
Speaker 5:And why did I have to go through this blah, blah, blah and I wake up at night, which I usually do. I have to go through this blah, blah, blah and, uh, I wake up at night, which I usually do I have to go to the bathroom. You know, that's normal for me at least. I wake up and, uh, I, I walk out, I see the hall and the front door is wide open and I'm like, oh, crud yeah, and I'm like did I forgot to lock it?
Speaker 5:now I'm creeping and I'm like you know someone in the kitchen bathroom. There wasn't much. We didn't have hardly any furniture nowhere to really hide and I'm gently carefully tiptoeing out there and I get to the door and I shut it. I'm like, and everything's fine. I'm like I must have not locked it. Go to the bathroom. That's why I woke up. Come out through the bathroom. The door's open again. I'm like, oh, and I'm like I'm creeping.
Speaker 5:And now I'm like I mean, I got chills my hair's standing up and I'm like and I'm looking around, don't see anything Go to'm like and I'm looking around, don't see anything go to the door. I'm looking outside. Everything's so quiet, nobody's around, nobody's up. It's what? 2, 3 in the morning.
Speaker 5:I'm like, okay, still freaked out, but I'm like, and my wife's just, you know, not even disturbed, she's sleeping. I close the door. And so, just, you know, not even disturbed, she's sleeping, I close the door. And so, hold on, I close the door, I turn around Again. That light's coming in from this side, so it created a light that kind of went at an angle in the living room. I got a couch over here, a little coffee table up against the wall over here. You can see the light cast light on the wall at an angle.
Speaker 5:Sorry, sorry, am I good now? Okay, I'm good so. I turn around after shutting the door, I'm still a little freaked. I turn and I see feet standing in the corner and the light is coming down an angle and I see the feet and it took that fast to recognize what was happening. I lunged from the front door, probably from here to the curtain I don't know how I did it. I just supermaned it and I fell prostrate on the floor and I grabbed the ankles. It was jesus. Yeah, call me crazy right this.
Speaker 5:I'm not crazy. Yeah, this happened. You know how many Muslims in other countries are seeing Jesus now, today? Yeah, yeah, he appears to them. Hey, I'm the way, follow me.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 5:And it revolutionizes their life. I'm holding on to these ankles and I'm trembling, like I'm vibrating. I said what are you doing here? That was the first thing out of my mouth. And he says don't be scared. And immediately I was in. Now I understand the Bible.
Speaker 5:When they said you know, angel says don't be, don't be afraid. And they were, seemed like they were calm. All of a sudden I'm calm, but I'm hanging on and I'm like, oh my God, he's going to kill me. I just I, I had this, this how do I describe it? This overwhelming sense of humanity and sinfulness, even though I was living right, I was living for him. I felt unclean, I was in, I was in holiness, perfect holiness, that's the only way I can describe it. And his feet were perfect. And he said don't be afraid, stand up. And I stood up and he came. I'm trying not to cry. He stepped out and the light right over him. I said what are you doing here? And I'm scared, I'm still nervous, I'm thinking in my mind, I'm like what in the world? And um, he says follow me, the front door's open again. Yeah, I shut it. We walk out the front door. I'm walking a step behind him, a couple steps and I'm like, I'm just looking at him like this, I'm like and I'm looking at him like he's perfect yeah, he didn't have a shirt on yeah
Speaker 5:he had shorts or a wrap of. It looked like, um, raw silk, that's the only way I know how to explain it. It wasn't shiny, but it was nappy, yeah, and I didn't touch it, but I'm like, and he was wearing like a sandal that I hadn't seen before and this wrap or shorts or something, no shirt, and he was perfect. I'm walking just a few feet. I told you this in the car, right, yeah, and I'm walking a few feet behind him and I'm just, I'm staring because I'm a visual guy with photography art.
Speaker 5:I'm noticing everything. You know. Look, you look at my arms. You see sunspots you see, moles. You see he had none of that. Wow, his skin was perfect, perfect Like an olive. He wasn't white, he looked like a. God, he was God.
Speaker 2:He is God, I know, but he he was God I know but his skin was perfect.
Speaker 5:It was definitely his resurrected body. I didn't see any scars, nothing, and people are like well, that wasn't Jesus shut up.
Speaker 4:You don't know, I was there.
Speaker 5:I didn't see any scars. I noticed everything. He was so strong, the strongest man I've ever seen in my life. I'm not saying muscular, I noticed everything. He was so strong the strongest man I've ever seen in my life, I'm not saying muscular, not like the guy that lifted weights here. No, no, no. Strength just oozed. He was lean. He wasn't perfect body fat if I can explain that. You could see his veins on his hands.
Speaker 4:He was a perfect specimen.
Speaker 5:Perfect, yeah, if that's I mean that's's the resurrected body, I'm all for it. Let me, let me look like that. Amen, he was perfect. And we're walking. We had a long walkway. We're walking past my car. I had a z28 iraq camaro. We're walking past the car and I'm just glued to him and he didn't say anything. We walked to the street and he turns and he starts walking west and I'm following him because he said follow me. Yeah, and I'm, I'm just blown away. I'm still going. Why he's here, yeah, and I'm a little apprehensive, like why is he here?
Speaker 1:what's going on? Why me yeah?
Speaker 5:and uh, all of a sudden we start moving up in the air and people are like oh, I know people are insane. Whatever Think what you want, it wasn't so natural. And as we moved, it went from night because it was about 3 in the morning to perfect daylight. It was like it was 12 noon, perfect daylight. We're moving up and I start freaking out. I'm like huh and I start crying out and and he, he, he sticks his hand out and I grab it Like I'm not letting go Cause we're going up, and we're going up in the air and we stop at a certain point, so high, I don't know. I don't know if it was heaven, I don't know I was Florida. I don't know I was Florida. I don't know. I saw mountains in the distance and they're white capped and they're beautiful. I never seen it before.
Speaker 5:You don't have white capped mountains in Florida but in the distance I could see white capped mountains and I could see and we're up there and I'm holding on to him for dear life Cause I'm thinking I'm going to die and fall and he with one arm, cause I'm holding on to one arm he goes like this he looks at me in the eyes and he's so beautiful and he grabbed me and he starts laughing, this robust laugh, like he's joking with me, and he swings me and I start swinging, like someone's swinging me on a merry-go-round.
Speaker 5:You know, when you swing someone hard, my body's out swinging. And he swings me to the front of him and I stop and I'm like the whole time. I'm like and I'm like Jesus, jesus. And he grabs my other hand, because I'm grabbing now and I'm frantic, so I have one hand holding on to him as he swung around. He stops, he grabs my other hand and he brings me close, right up to him and I'm like oh my gosh, and it's so crystal clear. I'm again, again. He's perfect. I don't talk about this much because I can't explain in human terms what I saw.
Speaker 5:It's so supernatural I can't explain it. And so he looked at me and he smiled and I said what are you doing here? He goes.
Speaker 2:I'm going to lose it. You're all right, buddy, he's such a good guy.
Speaker 5:He said I was trying not to cry. That's why I don't share this story a lot, You're good man. He goes I'm here, you can't see this not be affected. He said I'm here because I love you. It tore me up, you know, and he laughed at me. He let out another big laugh because he was really in a good mood.
Speaker 4:We think Jesus is always mad, you know.
Speaker 5:Pointing his finger. No, he was just having fun hanging out with me for some reason, I guess. Thanks, roddy. He said that he says I'm here because I love you and he pushed me with this robust he shoved me out. And I was like, and I'm crying, I'm freaking out, and all I did is I went back several feet and just gently stopped and he was laughing at me the whole time like he was playing me with me, Like a kid playing with me. I'm like what in the world?
Speaker 2:Yeah, like a father playing with his son. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5:He pushed me and I went just effortlessly and nothing's holding me. Again. We're up in the air, it's daylight and it was night and I just go back back and I just slowly stop. And right there, that fast he was right in my face again. I couldn't even see how fast he got to me, but he was like right there and he grabs my hands. He's laughing again. He goes don't be afraid.
Speaker 5:This wasn't a dream, either vision. This is. This really happened. He was as real as you, yeah. And so he, he took me and we, we moved through the air and, uh, he didn't say anything and we just looked. I was looking at everything. I'm like, where am I? This is beautiful. I don't know Again. There's no snow-capped mountains in Florida. I left Florida I don't know where I'm at now, but the colors were just amazingly brilliant. The mountains were so beautiful.
Speaker 5:We went over my church, which is in Orlando, and we descended together just like a plane, but it was so effortless. I mean, if we can truly be somewhere in a resurrected bodies, you know, just like angels can appear, they can disappear. I know what that feels like. It's cool. We came down down and we gently came down and he sat on a fence post that was in the back of the church. There was a playground grass, green grass you know everything's grass in Florida and I came down laying on my side. I came down just gently on my side and he's sitting there and I'm just staring at him because I couldn't stop staring at him. He's perfect. And I sat up and I wasn't really afraid anymore and he was just hanging with me and I started asking all kinds of questions. I mean I was wrapping off questions left and right and he starts laughing at me. He says Abel, see, I'm going to. He goes Abel, why are you so concerned about everything? And he said focus on me, Dang bro, wow, wow, focus.
Speaker 5:Wow, focus on me he didn't speak in King James, he just spoke in. I was like what?
Speaker 1:Thou art me. Focus thou on me.
Speaker 5:Follow me, he goes focus on me, focus on me Focus on me. And the love he exuded, especially when he grabbed me and brought me to his face, I just melted. You cannot explain on this earth that kind of love. Yeah, it's so hard you can't do. I can't do justice in explaining this experience. I know people are going to think okay, abel's, think what you want I don't care, I don't care.
Speaker 2:I know people are going to think okay, abel's, think what you want, I don't care, think what they want. Man, I don't care, I know what happened.
Speaker 1:I can see by the emotion on your face that this really happened.
Speaker 2:This is really happening. Yeah and uh.
Speaker 1:I've known you pretty good and I've never seen you emotional, so yeah, I wouldn't about this kind of stuff.
Speaker 5:Again, I don't need to be anyone. I'm not trying to impress anybody. I'm not anyone special, I'm just me Amen.
Speaker 2:You're his son bud, and.
Speaker 5:I don't know why he did that. I kind of know now why he did it, but you know.
Speaker 2:I have one question. Go ahead Just because of the little that I do know from your life. How long after this was the divorce? Several years, several years.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, okay All right, so he went on to do great things after this.
Speaker 5:Yeah, so, um, so he, you know he said that and uh, why do you worry? Why do you worry yourself about so many things, folks, I mean, and I and I kept asking questions and he's just laughing almost like a father would to get. He's like like you're able yeah, and here's how I know this is real, real, real and people can whatever you know they can roll their eyes at me.
Speaker 5:I don't care. Screw those people. Yeah, I started asking questions about my pastor in Fresno. He told me he's not there anymore. He's going to be moving, he's going to be going to Oklahoma. This is when I'm in Florida and it made me sad and he told me I was asking about other people family and he told me all kinds of stuff. This person's going to die this spring family and he told me all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 5:This person's gonna die this spring and guess what it all came true? Yeah, that's how I know he's not a man that should lie I didn't have bad pizza.
Speaker 2:I didn't I didn't have some delusion of grandeur.
Speaker 5:This was legit because it all happened, yeah, man, and shortly after that, because he answers some of the questions and after that I was all of a sudden in my bed and I woke up and I'm like it was still the same time.
Speaker 1:Dark around that time.
Speaker 5:Yeah, it was nighttime and I got up and I walked out. I'm like door's shut, it's locked.
Speaker 4:Holy cow.
Speaker 5:I sat in the living room and I'm like crying and I'm like oh my gosh and uh my god, I woke up my wife and I said you're never gonna believe this, never, never gonna believe this. She believed me, of course but, uh yeah, and then I found out shortly after the pastor that I asked about, he certainly was not at that church. He's in a church in Oklahoma and I got to see him. I went down to see him, he's like Abel nice seeing you bud.
Speaker 5:And we're friends, you know. So he told me after ORU, come work with me. I'm like cool, it didn't happen. But so, yeah, not long after that I to I transferred to ORU and again a learning experience, because ORU didn't take a lot of the credits from West Coast or from Lakeland because ORU is one of the highest accredited agency is full on university. They don't joke around. They're right up there with Yale Princeton Harvard.
Speaker 1:In fact they're yeah they're an Ivy League school, aren't they part of their Ivy League?
Speaker 4:yes, in the.
Speaker 5:Christian world, they're an Ivy League school, aren't they? Yeah, aren't they part of the Ivy League? Yes, in the Christian world they're Ivy League. They are, in my opinion, the creme de la creme of universities.
Speaker 1:Well, they're a sports division, Don't? They play in the Ivy League.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I believe so you would know that. You would know, rowdy, chuck, I love you guys I don't think that Oral Roberts is Ivy League. Well, as far as their education, it's the same, it's top of the line it's top of the line, and so I felt like Brown.
Speaker 2:Harvard Yale, there's a few.
Speaker 5:You know all those universities. Ivy Leagues were started by ministers.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 5:So now they're all liberal, but that's a whole other story. So, or he was not. Yeah, very much.
Speaker 2:Christ-centered and and so um I transferred there, or you's in oklahoma right, tulsa, oklahoma yeah, one of the best decisions I made in my whole life.
Speaker 5:I loved or you. I still love it today. I'm so glad that um deidre went there.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, that's cool, man, that you got to see a daughter graduate from the college that you did.
Speaker 5:I know it's surreal. When she started, I'm like I'm old.
Speaker 2:20 years later, my daughter's going.
Speaker 5:Honey, I'm old so, yeah, I flourished and I I started getting top grades. Wow bro, I learned. I added to my list of languages Greek, hebrew, aramaic, syriac. I started to take Egyptian and I decided to drop the class because I was writing my thesis one of my theses and I wanted to take Arabic and Ugaritic and I just didn't. But there were other languages that I wanted. I was around some of the top notch scholars from all over, people from Hebrew, hebrew University and Israel and others, and, gosh, it just opened my eyes to so they all came to ORU to study.
Speaker 5:Yeah, we had rabbis secretly at ORU that were messianic and they could not tell their congregations or their people and I know that I'm not going to say the guy's name. He's back there in Israel now as a head rabbi. Sharp as a tack. And he was at ORU studying because he's like I need to learn more about Yeshua, my Jewish savior.
Speaker 4:Yeah, wow.
Speaker 5:So, yeah, I was around so many people, top people, and God just propelled me from there. I was around all the quote bigwigs, if you will. I mean I was hanging out with the Roberts family and I was hanging out with all the people you see on TV and they knew me and it was nice.
Speaker 1:What's your favorite memory from ORU? Favorite one there's so many, one that just stands out Gosh, it was nice.
Speaker 5:What's your favorite memory?
Speaker 1:from ORU, favorite one there's so many One that just stands out Gosh. I know they have some great services there.
Speaker 5:You would love their chapel services blow most churches away.
Speaker 1:If you told me, one time you can just go there and attend one of their chapels.
Speaker 5:Yeah, you can go show up and go in the chapel, man. The auditorium sits for 4,500 people. Come on, go hang out, man.
Speaker 1:Ain't ready to go to.
Speaker 5:Oklahoma soon. If you guys want to go, I'd love to take you on a trip and show you everything. But gosh, the best experience? I don't know, it's hard to say, because there's not one that stands out over the other because, it was all such a good experience, I do have a couple bad experiences. I was there for two weeks and my IROC Z Camaro with T-tops and fully black and fast car got ripped off at the mall.
Speaker 1:Really, yeah, it was stolen five times in Tulsa. Well, tulsa's not a good neighborhood buddy.
Speaker 5:Well, no, the neighborhood I was in was good, but I was at a mall that wasn't in such a good neighborhood and the gangs from the north came down and they stole. I just washed it, I just filled up with gas, and they joyrided it.
Speaker 1:One of the towns where I always have on the first 48 hours is Tulsa, buddy North.
Speaker 5:Tulsa is not so good, but it's not as bad you know that's where they filmed the Outsiders, yeah.
Speaker 1:You can go visit the house and you sent your daughter there. No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 5:I'm just kidding, no, South Tulsa is full of, I mean there's mansions everywhere. The whole area around ORU is beautiful. It's gorgeous. A lot of Tulsa is beautiful, but you've got in every city you've got Of course Of course. What'd you do after ORU? Well, so, from ORU, I graduated with my bachelor's.
Speaker 1:Have any kids, yet what year? What year is?
Speaker 5:this oh gosh, I went there.
Speaker 1:I think in 93-ish. So you were married for almost 10 years or so.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I was married 10 years before Deidre was born. Really, wow yeah, we had no kids, it was just us.
Speaker 1:So was that nice to be able to have that time to kind of.
Speaker 5:You know what I mean most people get married when they have kids right away and they never really get a chance to forge a marriage.
Speaker 1:We loved it.
Speaker 5:We had a great marriage so I graduated with my, my bachelors in New Testament theology and a minor in Old Testament. I forget what year I had to look at my diploma not long after I was there, but I had to retake a lot of classes. No, you got to take that again.
Speaker 1:Nine years and you only got a bachelor's and a minor's. Yeah, you know I was slow, I'm just kidding, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 5:And then I stayed to do my master's. Oh you did. Yeah, I finished my master's in a couple years, two and a half, three years.
Speaker 1:Amen.
Speaker 5:And then I was going to do my doctorate at the Hebrew University in Israel. But, lo and behold, we have a child.
Speaker 1:It changes things, so we thought it does.
Speaker 5:We thought, and my wife's, carrie's her name, my wife. We thought in my and and my wife's um carries her name, my wife, my first wife's name name. My first wife's parents were um sick. Her father had emphysema. No, no, no, not emphysema. Is that the one from smoking? Copd he had copd emphysema from smoking okay yeah, he had that.
Speaker 5:He wasn't doing so good. Um, her mom had battled cancer for years. So we thought what if we go back to arizona? Because, um, that way they can see the grandkid? And we thought, all right, we we thought that was a good deal so we, we, after my master's, we came back here and I thought I can do my doctorate via internet or somewhere else. Maybe I'll just go somewhere else. And so, um, do you ever get it?
Speaker 5:yeah, just through here but it's you know, here it's more of a. I would consider it more of an honorary because, uh, you know, because I established deos and I created it and, yeah, pastor tom and I. So, um, yeah, it's kind of a, but as far as the workload for it's the amount of workload I did for uh, uh, that I would do for a real doctorate, yes, that equals what I did for.
Speaker 4:Thales.
Speaker 1:But um, um, you know, as far as the credit accreditation, would you ever consider going back to or are you in getting your doctors through them? Oh yeah, I'm. I'm probably going to do it through uh distant learning come on to where I have to go um every I thought your one with aos isn't credited, but right, yeah, I know it's different.
Speaker 5:You know I mean yeah um, I have to go two weeks out of the semester each year, so, um, oh, what he did what he did is different than an actual doctorate?
Speaker 2:yeah, it could be. You created a school and started a doctorate program with the for theos, but yeah if you go to oru. You're gonna have to actually put the workload in to do a doctor which is about the same workload that I put in here I mean I did the.
Speaker 2:It took, you know, close to four years to get a lot of stuff amen um, I didn't do all of it, but pastor tom did some yeah, but you didn't have to do a thesis or you didn't do well the the notes and everything just like a dissertation you should see. Well, you've seen some of the notes, yeah so um but no, I know it's a lot.
Speaker 5:It's a lot. Yeah, so the workload's about the same, but you don't have the accreditation, um, so I'd like to get that from, or you, um and uh you know, because, they're a fantastic school. That'd be sick. Yeah, you could do it. On theology, well, contextual theology they have a degree in contextual theology, which is how to bring theology, which I do anyway how to bring theology to the local church and to the average person to help them understand and grow deeper in their faith and knowledge of the Bible.
Speaker 1:There's a reason why I call you when I have questions.
Speaker 5:Rabbi. Well, I don't mind, you can call me anytime I do.
Speaker 1:When I have questions, you're the first one I call.
Speaker 5:Thanks, I'm glad you do.
Speaker 1:If you don't answer, I call Joan.
Speaker 5:Yeah, so we came back here and Carrie's father passed away not long after and her mother passed away, so we raised the kiddos the kiddo here, and then we had another kiddo, cassandra, and we got involved with Word of Grace. Yeah, amazing. Yeah, I was there, and then they brought me on staff in the youth group. There were three youth pastors me and two other guys and we built the youth group bigger than most churches. We had 650 youth.
Speaker 1:We were running six services a weekend three junior high, three high school.
Speaker 2:Is this with one of those guys, justin, that's now at that other church? Yeah, that's where I met Justin, okay.
Speaker 5:Justin was on staff there, kind of like the admin in the youth department, when I met him and we became friends.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this dude, from what I saw, those pictures in the post that dude's doing some stuff with you.
Speaker 5:He is mind-blowing, he was my youth pastor when I started church.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, I'll get to that.
Speaker 5:So yeah, we were there and I was hired by the church and I was there for a little bit. Yeah, we were there and I was hired by the church and I was there for a little bit. And then from there I kind of you know there's a lot in between that, but I'll just give brief. From there, I became an associate pastor at a United Methodist Church in Phoenix. Wow. Not far from Tommy Burnett's church.
Speaker 2:Phoenix, first Assembly, now Dream City. Yeah, dream City.
Speaker 1:How was the experience at the Methodist church? Was it a little different?
Speaker 5:It's different because they're more traditional. Which? I don't mind because in Oklahoma, in Tulsa, when I was going to ORU, I was attending a charismatic Episcopal church and you're like what it was basically think of an Episcopal church which is really close to Catholicism as far as the traditions of the you know walking with the cross the bell it was spirit filled in the sense that, you know, they believed in healing, they believed in, you know, the Holy.
Speaker 5:Spirit moved that kind of stuff. So, um, it was amazing. I was like this is cool, tradition mixed with cause they gave you a lot of history. This, that's something that churches lack nowadays. The average congregate has is anemic with church history and the richness that's there. And, uh, at this particular, it was like a denomination. Um, cause they had churches throughout Texas, they wanted to ordain me as a Bishop. I said nah, but um, they wanted to pull me in and to to be a Bishop of a church because they have bishops and pastors and deacons.
Speaker 5:Yeah, deacons, yeah, so um but I hung out with them for a while and I loved it it was a and one of the.
Speaker 1:They're kind of wonky now, ain't they?
Speaker 5:well they. They stopped um. Something happened with the guy who started the organization you know um. The church is still out there but, they. They're under a different name now more independent.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and that's fine, but uh, no, I became really good friends with a pastor of the, the, the place in tulsa, because for me I was, I was how are you? And you know I? I believe in healings, I'm all the stuff right, biblical based. Um, but I was seeing some stuff that was kind of wackadoodle and got out. I believe in healings, all the stuff right, biblical based, but I was seeing some stuff that was kind of wackadoodle and got out of the ordinary, not from Bible. I was hearing things I'm like that's not scripture. You know, I had one lady at a conference. She was like you know why do we always try to be over spiritual and talk about getting out of our flesh? Right, because our flesh is spiritual. We can be spiritual in our flesh because god created us flesh and spirit.
Speaker 5:We're both okay we can't separate the two now. Yes, the bible says crucify the flesh, but that's. I'm not talking about sin, I'm talking about being a human being. Yeah, right, yeah so I was in one service me, me and a buddy and we were helping out and I'm backstage and she's out there preaching. I'm like who is this lady? Apparently she's some prophet. Don't ever come to me and say I'm prophet, so-and-so or apostle, so-and-so you put up a red flag in my mind.
Speaker 5:I'm like you don't have to tell me, you're a prophet, I'll find out really quick. You prophet, I'll find out really quick.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you don't have to tell me your apostle, I'll know. Amen the people on social media, pastor.
Speaker 5:Yeah you don't even call me pastor, you know. So, um, I'm not into titles, but you know I've met people that I'm prophet. Here's my card.
Speaker 1:I'm like okay you gotta tell me what your gift is. That's probably not your gifting, but what if you gotta tell me what your gifting is?
Speaker 5:that's probably not your gifting man. Man, yeah, you don't have. You don't speak for yourself.
Speaker 1:I don't go around bragging no it's not needed. I was in this one ministry organization and they insisted that you called them pastor and I'm like you will call me past. I'm like okay, bob, thanks, buddy Appreciate that All right, steve, I called him by his name one time. He's a pastor, so-and-so, and I'm like all right, steve, you know what I mean.
Speaker 5:I was on staff at Central, you know, one of the biggest churches in the valley here, other than like CCV and so on. And you called Cal Cal. Yeah, he's the head pastor. Hey Cal, what's up?
Speaker 1:Hey Abel, yeah, pastor right, we just if I call, if I call you pastor, it's because I respect.
Speaker 5:I respect you and honor you, and I get that and that's okay, but you don't, don't feel like you ever have to call me pastor, just a habel, you'll always. It doesn't bother me, you'll always be rabbi.
Speaker 1:Rabbi's fine, but there are pastors that I don't call teacher rabbi there are pastors that I don't call pastor yeah, yeah I don't, I don't respect your title Just because you have one doesn't mean I'm going to respect it Right If I call you pastors, because I respect your position. You know what I mean.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 1:If I don't, it's probably because I don't respect your position man, you know what I mean, and it's.
Speaker 5:You know the cultures of churches are different. You know you will call pastor. Okay, I get it. Whatever, good luck with that. Huh, good luck with that. But I don't go around talking about apostle so-and-so or prophet, I don't do that.
Speaker 1:They introduce me as Pastor Eddie, and I'm like it's just Eddie man, here's the simple thing. But you're a pastor, I'm like whatever dude.
Speaker 5:Here's the simple thing. An apostle is just someone who's sent. That's what the word means. Yeah, okay, we like to inflate with this spiritual highness. You know we think of the 12 apostles. Yeah, they were hanging out with Jesus.
Speaker 4:They did great things.
Speaker 5:Yeah, but we consider them so high and lofty, the apostles. You know what they were? Just dudes like us. Yeah, and they had their struggles and their troubles. And we read about it Paul wasn't perfect, yeah yeah, god used him to establish the word, and so on but you know what? They would probably tell you don't call me apostle, I'm just Paul. But some people want the title. I don't know strokes of the ego I don't know. I don't get it.
Speaker 5:I've never been into it, and so you know I'm. It's okay, I had some missionaries come in the door and were like we have a true apostle, still living apostle. I said you know how many apostles? I said I'm an apostle. I was sent to Russia. God sent me. I've been here, I've been to Venezuela, I've been all over the world.
Speaker 1:God sent me and used me.
Speaker 5:That's all an apostle is, so don't tell me you have one. There's a lot of apostles out there.
Speaker 3:We just don't go around. I'm the apostle no please don't yeah, just yeah.
Speaker 4:Anyway, so how?
Speaker 5:did we get off that track?
Speaker 2:I was figuring out, trying to get you how to get back on track.
Speaker 3:So we're here in Arizona. You had the kid. You're here in Arizona. We're here in.
Speaker 5:Arizona On staff at Word of Grace.
Speaker 2:Oh, I thought you were at Central.
Speaker 5:No, no, no, I came later. I'm on staff at Word of Grace. That's where I met Justin, who's rocking it now. Then I go to the United Methodist Church. I'm on staff there. They had an interim pastor. They probably would have put me in as pastor, but I don't have a rich Methodist background. Okay.
Speaker 5:So, anyway, they had an interim pastor and it was a lady, she was really nice, and so I was sitting there one day and God started building in me this desire Kind of like, you know, I want to do something special for people. That's why I was thinking, maybe a police officer, maybe the military. I had this desire. So I have this desire all of a sudden, like what if I started a church? And I'm like, right, right, yeah, I've never done that before. Well, leave it to God, right, yeah?
Speaker 5:So all of a sudden, this desire starts building while I'm at staff and I'm over the youth, I'm over the children, and I'm kind of like the associate pastor, I have a nice big office, and so I'm there and this desire just starts building and building. And I'm like, hmm, praying about it, talking to my wife about it, I'm like what if I started a church? What you know, where are you going to get the money? Because I have no money, I have no agency or organization. To you know, arc didn't exist back then. I'm like, hmm, it keeps getting stronger and stronger. I'm praying about Lord you want me to.
Speaker 5:Am I supposed to go start a church? Go start a church in queen creek. Basically is what I was feeling I didn't have any, you know, like, not like before a big, bold word or no confirmation of any kind other than the desire kept growing. Yeah, I'm like, you know, carmen says going back, aging carbon. Uh, the singer, he's like. He's got one song where he says the desire is the confirmation that the destination is there and I've always remembered that. So I'm like Lord, is this desire from you?
Speaker 1:You know, because he puts desires in our heart, it does.
Speaker 5:And so, long story short, I'm sitting in my office. One day I go in, and it's in the morning. I open up with a prayer, I start reading the word and I'm praying and I just heard I didn't hear a voice, but it just. It's like just the Holy Spirit speaking to me or something, and and uh, I was sitting there and I heard you'll never be able to do what I called you to do if you stay here. Oh, wow, and it's just. You know, again, I didn't hear that in a bold voice.
Speaker 2:Like before it, the heavens opened. It was just In your spirit.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it kind of one of those moments where, like aha, God knows how to talk to you to get your attention Right. He knows exactly what you need to hear. Some people don't understand that.
Speaker 1:I know. Sometimes it's a loud, booming voice, sometimes it's a whisper in the wind.
Speaker 2:They'll find out one day and every knee will bow exactly. And I'll see. I told you guys, I'm not crazy. See, jesus, did you know? Did you see all these white capped mountains? Did you sneak? Did you, jesus? Let them know, I'll see.
Speaker 5:I told you all take that joker amen, so, um, so yeah, I I heard that and I'm like, huh, okay, okay. Next day I went and resigned. I went into the interim pastor and I said hey, I need to talk to you. Yeah, sit down, what are you doing? And we talked a little bit. I said I need to resign. Oh, everything, okay, why? I said well, I think I'm supposed to go to Queen Creek and start a church. Okay, you're going to do it on your own, yeah yeah, you have any backing.
Speaker 4:No, you have any people.
Speaker 5:No but I okay. So I finished out my time at the church and we left on good terms. Every church I've been to, I left on, yeah, great terms, amen, and so, um, that's the way to leave.
Speaker 5:Yeah, you know, I'm just up and and so, um, I left and and I start I had a. I was doing a bible study and I lived in a condo in mesa and, uh, some of the youth from um word grace once I left there because, um, yeah, once I left that church they're like oh no, don't go, can we still come over? Because I taught I had like a Bible college. It was called CMI, christian Maturity Institute for Teens. We would give kids scholarships to go through this year two-year program where they'd learn about the Bible and other life skills, and the church would offer a small scholarship for them if they went through it. So I headed that up and I revised it. Andy Jackson was part of that too.
Speaker 5:Andy Jackson was on staff at the time at Word of Grace. That's how I know Andy Jackson. He's a good buddy. So, yeah, we did that and people loved it and they're like we want to know more. You know Hebrew teachers, so I would have little Bible studies in my condo with teens that would come over, you know, and young adults, stuff like that.
Speaker 5:I didn't care, so nobody cared. So we do that. So I just started sharing in these groups. I said, you know what I? I resigned from the methodist church. I'm here's what's god leading me to do and I'd share with them. Like, can we be a part? Yeah, well, yeah, but if you're involved, stay at your church, you know, yeah, no, no, no, we, we and they pray about it. Yeah, we want to be a part. So, um, basically, with eight college students and two hundred dollars in the bank, we started the church out of Queen Creek and like, who's dead? Who does that? I remember, you know, I talked to pastors about it and like, well, uh, what kind of demographic you're gonna um, um, target and I'm like demographic people man yeah I'm not
Speaker 3:doing any studies on you know none of that if god told me to go, I'm gonna go and he's gonna bless me and he sure, he sure did Amen.
Speaker 5:And so um so, from there I went, I started a church and started eight college students, and you know what that's called, pastor Abel.
Speaker 1:Well that's called faith, buddy. Well, thank you yeah.
Speaker 5:I've always been good at just stepping out, which was here's what it's a huge step of faith.
Speaker 1:Yeah, god's in it, buddy. Thank you. Yeah, he is, yeah.
Speaker 5:So, um, yeah. So I went from there and through that I told Justin we hung out, we had lunch, told him what I was going to do At that point he had left word of grace and he went up North Washington Well, that's where he's from to with another guy that fell fruit through. It never happened. He came back down here and it was just working. He was a manager of McDonald's and Chandler and we got talking and I told him what I do. He goes can I, can I join you? Yeah, can we partner in this? I said let's do it.
Speaker 5:And man, and good thing I did, man. That guy is phenomenal.
Speaker 4:He's won it all over now.
Speaker 5:I didn't want him to leave. I said go spread your wings. Man he has spread them. Wow. So go visit the children's ministry over at Cornerstone. Your mind's going to be blown, jonathan. Go walk through it, justin. Justin, let me know if you want to go. I'll take you over there. I can call him. He's there. They're doing 12 services this Easter weekend.
Speaker 1:Wow, he's there now, probably worn out. They should go there for their 180 prison ministry. Oh, cool Over on Elm School 202. Yeah, yeah, good church there.
Speaker 5:Awesome Bart.
Speaker 2:Nolenberger, that's where Bart is, yeah.
Speaker 5:CR. Yeah, so, yeah. So we started a church and the first service we had like 25 people. We met in the cafeteria.
Speaker 1:What was it?
Speaker 5:called the Church at Queen Creek. Pretty original, that's all it's called, really, yeah, the Church at Queen Creek, and when I started church it was a Queen Creek High and that was a miracle because other churches tried to get into the school.
Speaker 5:Churches were not looked upon favorably in that area back then around 2004, because you know, it's heavily Mormon-influenced. So it's funny because I went in and talked to the principal. I just went in and I said I'm going to talk to the principal, see if I can rent a classroom, maybe a cafeteria, three classrooms and a cafeteria. I went in the lady's from she attends an orthodox church, orthodox christian, and we got talking about the bible and I guess she liked what I had to say because she goes whatever you want, it's yours, come on. I said awesome, thank you, uh, cafeteria and uh, three, three rooms. You can have a band room in these two classrooms. Okay, cool, wow and uh. So we, we went out and we god just gave us favor. We also went out the small group we had. We went out and pulled weeds because they didn't have someone to pull their weeds.
Speaker 5:In school we pulled all the weeds and they're like, wow, who is this? And so, yeah, they just they love people. That serve yeah, yeah so we started church. It went well. Um god, I mean we again. We started church, it went well. God, I mean we again we started with $200. We didn't have any sound equipment. We had an overhead projector for worship. You know, yeah yeah. I mean, talk about grassroots and you know, nowadays people we've got to have this, we've got to have this. No, you don't.
Speaker 1:No, you don't.
Speaker 5:If God's in it, you don't need we had a wonderful man that donated a really high end sound system Mackie speakers and digital sound boards. He set us up wow, showed us how to use it. We people came and we ended up going from the cafeteria to the performing arts center, with seats 800 people.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 5:And the reason we got in there is because a church had come in and the principal came to me. She goes hey, there's this other church that wants to rent the performing arts center. Um, are you, would that work if you are in the cafeteria them there. I said, you know, not really, because they're going to be on top of this and we're a new establishing church and and people are going to, you know, going to walk into the church. It's going to be hard to them find us.
Speaker 5:She goes okay, you were here first, so I'll tell them no I said plus, I asked you the first day I met you if we could rent the foreign arts center and you said it's not rentable, and so does that change. She goes, it's yours. Wow. So we, we went from the cafeteria where we had to move the dining chairs, yeah, to a posh nice auditorium where they had theater and stuff so um I went there to go.
Speaker 1:Uh, bethel was there for a little bit here the last couple years.
Speaker 5:I don't know if they're still there, or not?
Speaker 1:but they were like in the what would you call that? The for foray area, the front, like when you walk into the Performing Arts Center there's like this big open area. You're not actually in the Performing Arts area.
Speaker 5:Oh, they were in there. That's where they were at.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, yeah, yeah we had the whole Right there where the big glass wall is. Okay, yeah.
Speaker 5:We had the whole building to ourselves. Wow so, wow so. And you know people, pastors would come to me how'd you get in that school? How'd you get in the Performing Arts Center? I went and talked to them.
Speaker 4:What.
Speaker 5:We went and talked, we were rejected. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1:We had a buddy that did the same thing in Maricopa. Yeah yeah, there was this elementary school that they wouldn't let nobody in. The pastor was there, the principal, or the principal was against it.
Speaker 4:So he went in and talked to the principal.
Speaker 1:They're like all right cheers.
Speaker 4:It's crazy, bro.
Speaker 5:God's favor I don't know Not that he's given me favor over these other pastors, but for some reason they weren't in there. They didn't get in. I got in. So, yeah, we had a good old time. The church went for almost five years and then, I was affiliated with.
Speaker 2:How old I affiliated with, how old were you for those five years?
Speaker 1:2004 you do the math yeah, you're in your 30s, 30s, 30s yeah so that's when we started 2004.
Speaker 5:So I affiliated, we wanted Justin and I. He was like, not only he was over the youth and children, but he was also like my right hand man who did this together and we wanted to get affiliation.
Speaker 5:We didn't want to be totally independent for accountability, and so we hooked up with Benny Perez out of Las Vegas. He's a famous pastor who comes from the Northwest and known for revivals. He started a church in Vegas and it was running, I don't know, maybe under 1, a thousand, and now they're like four or 5,000. Wow, anyway, he, he affiliated with, he goes. Yeah, let's, let's connect, he goes, we'll offer you support where we can. He helped us with materials on certain things. He even helped financially. He helped us with our 501 C three cause we didn't have the money.
Speaker 5:Yeah, so he goes. I want to pay for that. We got it. We got five. Oh, is C three from?
Speaker 1:the lawyer yeah.
Speaker 5:From the lawyer group from out of Tulsa which big ministers use. So, he's like the same group. I'm like thank you. Um, so, and then and then they actually paid my focused on the church because they saw the growth and I was I was doing the church and working full time. He goes, let's see what you can do. Working for the church full time Wow, he goes. We want to pay your salary. I'm like Holy, thank you. Yeah, so we did that.
Speaker 1:And so I made you get up to uh, we're up to a few hundred.
Speaker 5:Um yeah, I mean At that time everything was brand new out in Queen Creek so people would move in. It was really transient. People would move in, buy the homes, live there six months, sell them for a profit because the market was just hot. And then move somewhere else. So we'd have people coming to church be part of the family, like, oh, we're moving to Minnesota, oh, we're going to miss you, but we love you.
Speaker 4:If you ever get online.
Speaker 5:So we had a lot of people come in, they'd be there for a while and then they'd move. Yeah, so any loss of people we had was because they were moving. We had hardly any people leave because they were.
Speaker 1:Didn't like the church, didn't like the church, or whatever. Yeah.
Speaker 5:There was maybe one or two. Yeah, that's it. You know I was going to have a couple, but everyone that came in just seemed to really like it. They said we were the friendliest church in all of Queen Creek and we were super friendly and we built relationships with people. They weren't just congregants, they weren't there, they didn't feel like, oh, the church is here for the money.
Speaker 5:No, we built relationships with people and we hung out with them, so it was really good. So, um, what happened was is, uh, uh, benny perez, from vegas. He goes. Hey, I want to talk to you. God's been talking to me about starting a bible college. You're the guy to do it. You want to do it? Wow, they require you to move to vegas. That's it. Let me pray about it, and we prayed about it. Long story short, we went to Vegas and I built a Bible college. We got it up and running. We had an internship. We had 24 interns.
Speaker 5:What happened to the church? I hired a guy that helped me out. Sometimes he'd come and preach for me if I needed a break. We had a few ministers that attended church regularly. One guy was a Baptist background. He and his father. They were awesome. I'd let him preach. I let other guys preach. That were ministers, you know, and bring in guests. Um, um and so, um, this guy had spoken. He good, great preacher, um, really dynamic and, uh, he had some experience. He, he pastored a church in texas. I don't know what happened there, but he's not there anywhere. But anyway, when I decided to go, I said I gotta have someone fill in for me, and so I talked to him. I said I would like you to take my place, but please kind of keep the same vision. Well, long story short, he did not. Immediately he started changing things. People didn't like it, and you can't do that when people are so used to everything.
Speaker 5:He, for him, became all about money really and I saw his motives were more for the money than anything and I started getting a lot of complaints. They're like he just preached 45 minutes on giving and tithing, took an offering, then he preached a sermon. We were there for two hours. I'm like what?
Speaker 5:So things were not going well, yeah, and it broke my heart because people started leaving. The church was hurting financially, so when I left I didn't hand over the church to him. I was now more the overseer, the apostle, if you will. I was sent to establish church. Now he's. I hired him to be the guy, local guy, and I'm over here and do this and one day I'll maybe come back. We don't know?
Speaker 5:Well, it got to the point where I talked to him and he denied a lot of stuff. And I said, you know what? Got to the point where I talked to him and he denied a lot of stuff. And I said I said you know what, I've got so much evidence. I said I I'm gonna have to let you go, wow. And I said I can't come back now, and so what we're gonna do? We had elders, I had leaders. I talked to my leader, benny prez, and, and they said you know what, just close the doors. It's not horrible that you did that?
Speaker 5:just bless the people and have them go somewhere else amen I said okay, so we, you know, reluctantly, I did it. Yeah, we came back having a big final celebration. The people who left came back and we prayed for people, commissioned them to go out to other churches be youth pastors and worship leaders, and they are there's people in california, people all over from the church amen, doing ministry and, and so we shut the doors.
Speaker 5:And it was one of those things where we're going to short, shut the doors now, but it's not completely over. Yeah, cause I had intended, maybe later on, to open up the doors back up and people, people still ask me to this day hey, when are you going to start the church back up? Man, it's rocking, and they, how I did, church is here's. Here's where a lot of churches, in my opinion, go wrong. Churches, um, build their, their sermons, their church around unbelievers. That's why we have so many seeker sensitive churches. Yeah, the church is not for unbelievers. Yeah, unbelievers, unbelievers, are a byproduct. They come in because of believers. But you train the believers, you disciple the believers, you build them up, you strengthen them, you teach them how to go out and reach their world and community. You automatically have believers come in and they get saved. So I never geared my churches toward those who didn't understand the Bible. No, I preached hard. I preached the truth, I preached Scripture. We were big on Scripture.
Speaker 1:The messages were good Equipped in the saints.
Speaker 5:We equipped the saints, they brought the people in. We never had to say, hey, go out and reach. Nope, people would just come in because, like I heard that God will draw people to your church if you're preaching the word.
Speaker 1:You'd be surprised how many believers are upset that their churches are preaching watered-down versions to the believers A lot of churches and they're like I don't want to go, I don't get nothing. I'm like it's because they're preaching to the unbelievers, they're preaching pop psychology.
Speaker 5:Feel good messages I didn't. I spoke the truth and sometimes I hurt. I had people come up to me afterwards like were you listening to my husband and I?
Speaker 4:No.
Speaker 5:Because you preached exactly what happened to our. I said, well, I guess that's the Lord working on you huh, yeah, I guess.
Speaker 1:so People would just be like what?
Speaker 5:So I mean, I wasn't rude. I don't preach that way, I'm not that way in general with people, but I don't shrink back from the truth. I'll tell you what the Bible says. Come on and you can form your own opinion and you don't have to agree with me. You can disagree whatever, but I'm preaching the truth.
Speaker 2:How long were you in Vegas at that Bible college?
Speaker 5:Well, here's the funny thing I wasn't there too long because after I had that guy, it was a little under a year later they decided they wanted to not do the school because they wanted it fully accredited. They wanted a lot of stuff which requires a lot of staff. That's what churches don't understand. You build a Bible college if you want to be successful. You got to have the right people and you got to pay them and bring them in. What they saw the workload was more than it could be, and I you know. So they wanted to shrink it back to internship with some Bible classes. And so, as a result, they're like well, this kind of kills your position.
Speaker 5:My position was I was the pastor over discipleship. I would do seminars on books of the Bible, like Revelation, on a Wednesday night in the place we packed, you know. But they decided that they didn't want to do that. So so it kind of killed my position and they were going to change my position to a few other things. Then they decided not to and basically it left me in Vegas. I was paying a mortgage in queen Creek, actually for Florence, and I was paying for rent. Queen creek, uh, actually for florence, and I was paying for rent, which is not cheap in vegas. I lived in a rural. I lived right across from seven hills which is a.
Speaker 5:I used to see dana white at the.
Speaker 5:Yeah, at the chipotle yeah I mean, I ran into so many celebrities, but seven hills is like posh, yeah, and I lived right across the street from there and I lived in a really nice community called Coventry in Henderson, not far from the church, but you know. So I'm like I'm paying this much for rent, I'm paying for a mortgage you know, my mom's paying a mortgage, I'm helping and I'm like, so Benny's left it to me. Like you can go back home, you can, you can stay, you know, but it kind of kills your position. I'm like, oh, thanks, wow, so I was going to stay. But then this is we had some things happen.
Speaker 1:We're leaving what you started and coming out here, but we're done with you and I just shut the church down, so I had nothing to come back to, wow.
Speaker 5:So during that time and I'll be careful, I don't want people to be you know, when I was here in Quinkery before I left we had a guy come on the worship team and he was a nice guy. His wife never was there and we couldn't figure out why. And then we found out they were having some trouble and she was kind of labeled to be like she was crazy. That's how she was billed.
Speaker 5:She wasn't crazy. So this guy, I guess, had been in other churches where things happened and so things kind of started happening in my church and it was with my wife. Oh wow, oh Jesus, the interest. So there was a draw, yeah. And before we went to Vegas I just had to check my spirit that things were not perfect like they should be with things I saw, and I won't go into detail 's- not really important, but no, it's not we get to vegas and I get a.
Speaker 5:I get a call, frantic call once, from his wife at some point and she goes you need to have your, your wife, stop sending emails to my husband. And they had already had. I looked, it was cleaned out. I can't, couldn't prove anything. I noticed changes within my wife and so, anyway, we, with that, we ended up coming back to Arizona. We decided not to stay in Vegas.
Speaker 5:We came back to Arizona. We had no church to come back to. We lived out in Florence and I was trying to find work that was around what 2009, 2010-ish. Um, we lived out in Florence and I was trying to find work that was around what 2009,.
Speaker 2:2010. Ish, it was hard to find any work. The whole thing, yeah, the crash, yeah, it was a crash. The banks, real estate yeah, it was all nothing.
Speaker 5:So I ended up having to take a job. I was looking everywhere. Churches weren't hiring Nothing. Um, I took a job with a gold company out of Phoenix and they sent me to several different states. I was gone two weeks, sometimes three weeks at a time, and they paid good. I was buying gold because people were you know yeah.
Speaker 5:We'd go up, we'd go into a place They'd advertise you come into me, I'm sitting there and I weigh your gold, your coins, rare, vintage things I would purchase. I'd just write checks. We'd ship it back to phoenix they sell it. Yeah, for a profit, yeah, it was a decent job for the time. I hated being away for so long because I was home.
Speaker 5:I I like being at home yeah but during that time things started escal, escalating above and beyond and friends were calling saying, hey, we're concerned because here's what you're seeing. I'm like, hmm Dang. So I noticed some changes in personality and character.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 5:And so I was in Carson City and I was pretty much tired with this job. I'm like I'm away from home too much and, uh, maybe I can find something else. So I was in Carson city, one of my last journeys in Nevada, and, uh, I had a dream in my hotel room that night, where and I was leaving the next day I was there for three days, but gone for you know, a couple of weeks. I was elsewhere and I had a dream, and in the dream, my wife. I came home from a trip. My wife was standing there and she was smoking and uh, you know, like I said earlier, I did test, get tested. It's To me it's gross.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 5:And I come in the house I'm like, hi, and I'm all happy, give me a hug. Distant, about time he got home. I mean, the attitude was very distant, cold, and in the dream I'm like, what's wrong? I'm here now and why are you smoking? That's gross. Yeah, the whole dream she was distant and cold and it bothered me. I woke up and I laid in bed. I'm like, oh, that's weird, that's really different. Yeah, and I prayed about it. Lord, what does this mean? Anything is that? Did I just have too much pizza or something? I get home and that's what happened.
Speaker 5:there was no smoking yeah she doesn't smoke, but the the way she changed instantly, it was really cold. We went to a couple things that next few days and I'm like why aren't you holding my hand? Why aren't you Very distant, very shut down, I'm like. So I got frustrated. I said what's wrong, I'm not going to talk about it now, I'm not going to talk about it here. So I knew something was going on. We got home and finally I said okay, look, I don't know what's going on with you. We need to talk now. What's up? And we did not go to bed that night. From, you know, 10 o'clock to early in the morning. We were talking and I don't love you anymore. I don't think I ever loved you. We got married too young. Wow, just. And I'm like what? Wow, we Um just. And I'm like what? Wow, we had a and guys, we had a great marriage. Yeah, no joke, we had no issues. People like, oh yeah, I have your marriage, we, because we had kids 10 years later. We had such a strong marriage.
Speaker 5:But any strong marriage can be broken through by the enemy and so that's what happened and so, um, we were struggling at the time financially. You know we just going gone. There came back, our life was kind of turned upside down. She didn't handle it well and I think she she kind of sunk into someone who was really hey had money and stuff, and so the grass looked greener and uh, so you know, hearing the words I said that she said it just tore me up and I'm like she goes. I want you to move out. I'm like where am?
Speaker 5:I gonna go yeah, I don't know, but find it. I have nowhere to go. I'm not going anywhere. It's my house like yeah so I said, look, if you want to do this, you move you leave yeah, so she did. We were losing our house anyway we lost it it was horrible but you know a lot of people yeah so we lost our house, um, but I stayed there until I went down with the ship, okay we foreclosed.
Speaker 2:You didn't get the constable, did you?
Speaker 5:the house is now forbid. People are out front. Oh, nice house, so you're moving. Huh, well, that that was horrible, right? So I lost the house. We lost the house, but we lost everything cars, it was kind of a downsizing yeah, um, and uh forced on us, but anyway, yeah, my life was downsized to nothing. Wow, uh, no wife stripped oh, stripped, wow. I felt kind of like job a little bit, you know, and I'm like just don't kill him.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I'm like like, how lord, what is going on? Wow, and it was weird because I tried to talk to my wife and it was like I was talking to a different person. She was just somewhere else. We're fine now we talk, but you know it's different Love is not there, it's gone.
Speaker 5:She's married the guy that you know. Oh, wow, okay, anyway. So, yeah, she left and she lived with her sister for a, and we you know kids. We agreed through the divorce we would have joint custody and be close. We'd live close, not far from each other for the kids' sake, deidre and Cassandra. So it was tough on the family. It was tough on all of us on her, on me.
Speaker 1:How old were the girls when that happened?
Speaker 5:Oh gosh Again, you want numbers and I um were they little like your girls are now they they were younger uh cassandra was in junior high, I want to say deidre was there no deidre was in, uh, junior high, cassandra was in elementary and then yeah, because the cassandra did junior high so they were old enough to know what was going on they knew it broke my heart, they just cried why are you? Guys going to leave. Divorce ruins kids.
Speaker 5:It was hard we made it as smooth as we could for them. And there's a lot more I'd like to say, but I won't. A lot more I could explain, but I won't because I don't want to make. I don't make anyone look bad. I mean, it's all at this point, it's all under the water, yeah and uh.
Speaker 2:In my opinion, people have moved on, yeah I'm I've, I've have forgiven be honest with you.
Speaker 1:I respect you for making that decision yeah, so yeah, you know, but uh, we're not here to make people look bad.
Speaker 5:We're here to tell your story, and she's got her own story yeah, so I mean unfortunately that's part of my story I never wanted to be divorced I. It really affected me because afterwards I'm like I'm a pastor or a minister and I preach against divorce, blah, blah, blah, and I never wanted to be divorced. I got what helped me through, that is I have a friend who went on to. He's a big time scholar now.
Speaker 5:Um, his his master's thesis was on what jesus thought of divorce oh wow, and that I read that because he we exchanged theses cool at graduation. Here's mine, here's yours he took my thesis and went and wrote a book about it dude it took my idea and just went off with it. You should have wrote that book, whatever you know.
Speaker 1:I'm happy for him.
Speaker 5:But, um, but you know, I I read his thesis cause it was about divorce and I'm like wow, what the Bible says. And you know cause Jesus didn't. Divorce is allowable if it's infidelity you know, so I wanted to be married again and I'm like, well, I'm like I don't want to marry someone with a bunch of kids. I don't want to put my kids through that and mix marriage blah, blah, blah. I'm like it would really be nice to have someone who's never been married, even a virgin Lord.
Speaker 4:You know I was praying for that.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 5:I'm thinking I'm older. Who's going to marry me, right? Well, you know who I'm married to now. She was a virgin through and through and never been married, and we knew each other beforehand. She was part of the church, but we just, and she shared the story of how God brought us together If you want to hear that story go and listen to her testimony.
Speaker 1:Yeah so I love how she says she hit her brakes and said what? Yeah, well, same thing. I was like what?
Speaker 5:Yeah, but that's, yeah, that's the sound of the story she can explain, yeah.
Speaker 1:I love that testimony.
Speaker 5:But yeah, so we're married. We've been married for coming up on what?
Speaker 1:11 years, 12 years Wow.
Speaker 5:And had kids after we're married. You know didn't do anything naughty we should.
Speaker 1:you guys are a great couple.
Speaker 5:Thank you, and we, we remained, you know, going in. I was. I was thinking, okay, if I get married again, I want to do this right, cause when I got married the first time, we were sexually active before marriage. I said you know what I want to be. I want to be what A born again virgin.
Speaker 5:You know, I, in the sense of I, I, I said, lord, forgive me for the things I've done, and uh, and with that, but this time around I'm gonna do everything right. And we did, we did everything right. We did not have, we did not consummate the marriage until the marriage night.
Speaker 1:Amen, you know, amen, to put it nicely I've known couples that have done that, who, who were having sex before marriage. God got ahold of them and was like and they, they literally abstained until they, like you just said, it was almost like this rebirth of you know what I mean.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And tell after they got married. It's a beautiful thing. God respects that man. Yeah, yeah, and he's honored that and and uh.
Speaker 5:I just said I'm ride if I get married again. I didn't know yeah but I wanted to be. I'm like I don't want to. I'm not someone that wants to be single you know, I enjoy having a wife. Yeah, um, so, um, yeah, uh, and she, you know, she shared in her testimony that she, she was, she taught abstinence she was big on abstinence. She spoke before the legislator legislation I need water again, let's just, let's just, oh gosh.
Speaker 1:Legislation.
Speaker 5:Thank you, when my mouth gets dry.
Speaker 1:I'll try to get her to teach more about that today, because kids need to hear that today still, yeah, they do.
Speaker 5:They do. Yeah, it's so important. I used to teach it too.
Speaker 1:but Unfortunately, our society is now. Their main topic is body counts. Oh Jesus.
Speaker 5:I know people are proud of it. I've been with this many people.
Speaker 4:I've seen this clip of this.
Speaker 1:Nevermind, yeah, nevermind.
Speaker 2:Let's go back to the story. So so yeah.
Speaker 5:So so from there we you know, I, I from that gold company. I ended up working with the gang bangers at Canyon state Academy, for I From that gold company, I ended up working with the gang bangers at Canyon State Academy. I also managed a gold store in whatchamacallit mall in Tempe, arizona Mills.
Speaker 1:Arizona Mills.
Speaker 5:I was manager of a store there. They made me manager of a store.
Speaker 1:What'd you do at Golden State Academy? Working with the kids, man.
Speaker 5:After the, I went to Golden, not golden state kenya state academy yeah I went to kenya state academy after um. I was manager of the store because I wanted to do something different yeah, did you like stay there with the kids?
Speaker 2:the four? Oh yeah, well, four and three.
Speaker 5:I lived. I lived in, you know, at that area. My house was in florence, but we had there were times I had to stay on campus overnight at kenya state. So, we work um half the week straight and then half the week off. Yeah, um, you know, and it was, it was intense. I got to yeah, a lot of yeah.
Speaker 2:You think prison's rough? Oh go do kids. Yeah, you grow, you grow, you grow some cojones, and kids will say whatever bro.
Speaker 5:Here's one thing I recommend because what I've seen now again, I've been in church my whole life, on and off right. I've been around a lot of different churches. I've been to some of those biggest ministries and been on staff at some of the biggest ministries in the United States and small churches, yeah, Okay. So I've seen everything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you did not say while he was in Florida, he was with Benny Hinn. Yeah, yeah, you skip that.
Speaker 5:That's a whole other story, you know, and he's a super nice guy, that guy he is.
Speaker 2:I know people are like oh, jessica and Michael are awesome people, man.
Speaker 1:He's, yeah, his book is Morning, holy Spirit. Wonderful, love it. Wonderful book.
Speaker 5:He is one of the most nicest, sincere men I've ever met.
Speaker 1:I don't care what people say about him.
Speaker 5:I know he's controversial. People think he's you know whatever.
Speaker 4:Yeah, aren't we all? People are going to think whatever they're going to think.
Speaker 5:He People are going to think, whatever they're going to think. He is a very giving kind man. I've seen him give ties off his.
Speaker 1:You know, he doesn't wear cheap ties, here you go, you want it.
Speaker 5:Here you go. Amen. He blesses people and he's amazing Good man and I love that guy forever. He's just incredible. Anyway, where was I, my bad bro?
Speaker 2:So Rabbit Trail, yeah, um, where was I my?
Speaker 5:bad bro, so uh rabbit trail, yeah, old state oh yeah, so I work there and uh, canyon state. Oh, here's what I recommend canyon state if, if I could do this, I would make every church leader pastor on down. So good work there for at least six months. So good, bro, you know why? Yeah, so they know, learn how to communicate. Come on, buddy, because I, I, I thought I could communicate and I'm not.
Speaker 2:I'm not talking about preaching or anything yeah I'm talking about how talking to deal with people with issues.
Speaker 5:Yeah, bro, yeah, churches, we like to wash things under the rug. Oh, so kind there. It's raw and real. You get in their face and you I learned real quick. They told me you're going to be challenged the first time you step out on on the floor.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, sure enough, they're going to test to see what you're about oh, they do just like.
Speaker 5:I mean, it's prison, it's the same thing.
Speaker 2:But the I'm telling you kids are worse. It's crazy.
Speaker 5:So yeah, they challenged me and I learned real quick. To you know, the funny thing is the staff, they let you be challenged but they back you when the kids like and they're like Start to get you.
Speaker 2:and they're like hey, hold up here, relax bud.
Speaker 5:So you know there was a lot of craziness, a lot of good stuff that went on there, but after I was there for you know what? Three and a half years. And it wears on you Almost four years, yeah, so I'm like I got to do something different Because once you punch in, oh gosh, it's high emotion. Yeah, it could be happiness, it could be joy, it could be anger, it could be all of it mixed together. Yeah, man, it's watch your back. You're always watching your back.
Speaker 2:You're on guard.
Speaker 5:Yeah, these kids, you know they're. I don't know if I'm supposed to talk about it, but they've had to have the mass dose of police there for. Murder bud, yeah, all kinds of stuff. So, um, I don't know about murder at this facility, but they, you got murderers in there.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, oh yeah. There's fights. I guarantee it with pencils and whatever they can get their hands on.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I had a few coming at me and I'm like you, you better, you better check yourself, because if you're gonna do this, it's all out. I said I'm self-defense at this point, so you think it through. And they're coming at me and I'm like stop, or you're going to get hurt. Staff has to put people on the ground sometimes. So anyway, but I recommend that because you know by and large a lot of churches. People don't want to it's comfort, people don't want to be confrontational.
Speaker 4:And.
Speaker 5:I'm not talking about me in a mean way.
Speaker 2:Those courageous conversations.
Speaker 5:It's the courageous conversations you have to have, and, by and large, the church community. They're not good at it, they're just not good.
Speaker 2:The crazy thing is, when you have those conversations with the people and you come out the other side of it, those people are so much more thankful for you, exactly they're like bro, thank you. Why hasn't nobody ever told me this before?
Speaker 5:right it's like, because I gotta tell you the hard truth that nobody wants to tell you, bro, yeah I've always had the, the motto um, when I pastored, you know care enough to confront there was some conversations that I'd be in that I want, didn't want to do yeah, but I have to do it because I really love the person care enough and I care yeah so and I learned it exponentially at kent state academy because that's all you do, yeah, if you care about those kids and I did some of them you want to just flat out strangle, yeah, but if you care about them, you're going to confront them, and we had to, and same with staff, you know some I was like I want to take you behind the house.
Speaker 5:You know. So a lot of hotheads work there, but a lot of good guys that help the teens, you know, help the teens from going out and falling back into crime and all that stuff.
Speaker 2:So you finished up your schooling, bro, and you go overseas, to Russia, for the Holy Ghost, fire bro.
Speaker 2:I've been to Venezuela, you come back here and they're like, okay, we got to get some school, I got to show myself approved, learn all this stuff about the Bible and just really grow. And you're like, okay, let's start a church and you start the church man. And it's like, okay, let's start a church and you start the church man. It's actually thriving, you've got people and there's worship and new people. It's like, dude, this is really working all right. So the guy in vegas sees you and is like, what you're doing down there, let's go ahead and bring some of that up here. So you come up there, try to have everything down here, the t's crossed and the i's dotted man. But you know, when you're not actually at the place, out of sight, out of mind, people get weird, money makes people funny, things change.
Speaker 2:So you come back, you're in Vegas, you come back and you go through this thing with Carrie and it sounds to me like you yourself are in a transition yourself. So it's like what better way to help? Because up to this point, it's like you've been in church your whole life, or school or church or some kind of group or life. It's just been god your whole life. Yeah, pretty much. Um. So you're like let's switch it up and go to the kids. So you go to this, the academy, where the troubled youth are, and you're there for almost four years and at this point we're in 2000, teens. Because oh nine, oh eight, oh nine, ten house lost and all that. And so you're four years. So we're in 2000 and teens. Where does elise come in? Oh, you missed that when you were in the bathroom. Oh yeah, you were in the bathroom, bro. My bad dude, I got a small bladder. Watch the recording, watch, watch the playback.
Speaker 1:You can watch that on YouTube, just so you know All right, there you go, All right so where are we at?
Speaker 5:Yeah, so we get married after we got married in 2011.
Speaker 2:Okay, so while you were at Canyon State, you were with Elise.
Speaker 5:Yeah, okay, we were dating, okay All right, yeah, and we got married, yeah, so, um, I lost the house. Miraculously, we got a house the one we're in now in queen creek and, um, that was a miracle too because, you know, we didn't have much money and, like I'm we, thought we'd have to rent your wife, but your wife wouldn't tell us how much you guys paid for it. She's like I'm.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to tell you.
Speaker 5:Let me say yeah, let me say this Most people's car payments are more than our house. Wow, our house is nothing, wow.
Speaker 4:And we love that.
Speaker 5:We'd like to get a bigger house. We're like no, we kind of like our mortgage payment once they open up the home depot and all
Speaker 3:the houses go up, then I'll sell it. It's like all right, dude, now this windco home depot's open windco's coming in it's almost time, bro.
Speaker 5:We thought about it and we'll. We will make a huge profit killing, dude killing yeah just insane.
Speaker 1:It was totally god thing how we got in there, but uh, I know when kevin moved out here remember kevin mckelvey, yeah, so when they bought their house over there by the middle school, I think he said he paid mid-200s for it.
Speaker 5:Those things are $500,000, $600,000 now, and what he paid was way more than what we paid.
Speaker 1:Yeah, crazy, way more Crazy.
Speaker 5:We got such a steal.
Speaker 1:It was a bank.
Speaker 5:They took a foreclosure, the bank cleaned it up new carpet, painted it all and stuff and they sold it. And I'm like we'll take it.
Speaker 2:It was a miracle. They just wanted. They just wanted off the books, bro. It was just like, please take this thing from us.
Speaker 5:Yeah, the whole the house sold originally for more money than brand new. Yep, that's god, that's god. Yeah, it's truly a miracle favor. Um, so, yeah, so we're doing that and then so I'm working at kansas state and I'm like this is I'm kind of exhausted from all this because it's highly emotional.
Speaker 1:It's a lot bro.
Speaker 2:It's a lot you guys know that that's setting. I did three years in a men's home bro yeah, it's a lot, yeah, so then I went uh from there.
Speaker 5:What did I do? I can't even remember now. Brain fart, um, um, oh, I, uh, I, oh. I got on staff at central, I think yeah yeah, central, central. Contact me the pastor. He's like hey, I've heard a lot about you. Can we have lunch, sure? Yeah he was looking for associate pastor. We talked, we hit it off. He's like you're hired. So I went through the interview process. I had to go through the hoops with central, several interviews with different people, already knowing that I was hired for it was just protocol and uh, it was fun central is a great church they have which one?
Speaker 1:the one on germain?
Speaker 5:they have one in Mesa. They have a campus in Queen Creek.
Speaker 1:Which one were you at?
Speaker 5:I was the associate pastor for the Queen Creek campus.
Speaker 2:Right there with the one that David Next. To.
Speaker 5:High At Pecos Queen Creek High School. Yeah, right next to it.
Speaker 4:Oh, wow.
Speaker 5:But they didn't have the building At the time. They were meeting the Performing Arts Center. That's great, and the funny thing is that's where Deidre goes to church. Now the church is in there.
Speaker 2:God, that's a sense of humor, bro.
Speaker 5:She's there and I'm like you've grown up in the Performing Arts Center. I was telling that earlier today she goes. Yeah, I have. I said literally you attended part of Central as a teen and now you're part of their Wow Flat iron.
Speaker 1:I'm like you're never moving Flat iron, who's in the high school now? Yeah, I think it's.
Speaker 5:I haven't been there, but I heard it's a good church. I met a lot of the pastors who were out there.
Speaker 1:What did Pastor Dave do his Christ's life? No, the Instorable blessing series. The what the book that he wrote, the Unstorable Blessing.
Speaker 2:When did he do?
Speaker 5:that when I'm not sure 2023.
Speaker 1:It was right before the oh wow, so Flatiron's new in that school then.
Speaker 5:Oh, they're brand new. Oh wow, I guess they're doing really well.
Speaker 1:Because that's when I went there and it was Bethel was when Pastor.
Speaker 5:Dave, yeah, bethel, yeah, to do his. No, they're not there anymore. No, really, I don't think they have a Queen Creek campus anymore. I don't know.
Speaker 1:No, I know they dissipated it or put it off for a little bit, but I didn't know. Flatiron was in there now. Yeah, and they're doing well.
Speaker 5:I see their signs all the time. Yeah yeah, I see Flatirons all over social. Last weekend, or two weekends ago at Deidre's baby shower.
Speaker 4:They're really nice guys. That's for them, man All of them.
Speaker 5:I haven't met the senior pastor yet, but they love having Deidre and Michael Deidre and Michael yeah their giftings and music are so good, come on, buddy. They love having them there on worship team. Come on, and Deidre and Michael really like the church. This is a rocking church. This is a rocking church. A lot of young people.
Speaker 4:Huge young adult ministry.
Speaker 5:I've met a lot of the young adults Come on Cool.
Speaker 5:It's awesome. So, yeah, so I was on staff at Central and I enjoyed that for a while. You know, they're different in the way they do things and that's fine. Everyone does things different. But I started feeling like I didn't fit in as good as I could. Yeah, and it's not a matter of like, okay, change able. It's more like you know, like, for example, um, when they first hired me, they knew my background and and, uh like, oh, let's talk about tongues, let's talk about healing. And they said we believe in that stuff. We just don't do that in services. I said, okay. I said are you okay? That said, yeah, I don't have to be in a service where I hear tongues. It's yeah. Um, I said you'll never hear me speak in tongues. I never, you'll never hear publicly, hear me speak in tongues. For me it's a private thing. Yeah, it always has been. That's how I am, and so I've been at churches like speaking tongues. Um, I'll speak in english because my prayer in English is just potent as the tongues yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5:You know, because they're like praying in the Spirit. Well, I can pray in the Spirit in English too. Yeah, yeah, I can be just as spiritual, just as Holy Spirit empowered, in English than I can in tongues. Amen. So you know, but some people may, you know, elevate that. So anyway, um, so you know it, it went well, but they were highly programmed and they became more programmed, the, the.
Speaker 5:The problem I was having was, you know, they have a Gilbert campus. My office was in Gilbert, my, the church was in my community was in Queen Creek, gilbert's really different than Queen Creek. People's problems, family issues, all kinds of things, teens so they wanted the teen ministry and I was over the teens, the junior high, the high school, junior high I was over all the life groups. I had 40, I had 40 plus leaders underneath me that I managed for different things, life groups, in addition to being associate pastor on the campus doing all the pastoral stuff. So what they started doing is pulling in program pre-program, pre-designed programs for the junior high and high school, and it wasn't working. We were growing.
Speaker 5:So when I started they had like five, six junior high yeah and this again, central is a massive church, all their campuses, low high school count, and they said, can you build it up? Said, yeah, no problem, no problem, watch, sure enough, we start growing. We got, we're maxing out the. We have 40 plus in this, junior high students in this room having service and we're they're like thinking what are we going to do next? You know, because they were going to have to move us because and but they, the leaders, would come in.
Speaker 5:The cool thing about central is they're the elders, everything. They. They're highly engaged, they go around and they watch. They'll watch you and it's not because they're watching, watching you. They watch you to see how God uses you and how the ministry is being blessed and grown. And it was awesome. We welcome the people, come in all the time and they walk in and be like, wow, you know, we were just rocking it. And then all of a sudden, they and we were preparing the service, the message of what we did, everything the games, and then they wanted to go to a highly formatted program that was designed somewhere in California. Yeah, and it's not. We tried it and it wasn't working. The kids were like Pastor Abel, we want to hear from you.
Speaker 5:Yeah, we don't want to hear, and you know. Then it got and I would share that hey guys, this isn't working. We're not seeing the growth. All of a sudden it's stagnant. And then people started not coming. But the moment we started I veered away from that, you know, and people would come and so I was like guys, this is getting tough. And they're like, well, we want to. You know the branding and everything who cares about branding? Branding has become our god, it seems, and it makes me sick sometimes. Yes, I understand certain branding is good, but you have different campuses and you get different communities of people that deal with different issues, and there was a lot of issues with the teens in Queen Creek.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 5:Lower class than people who live in Gilbert. Yeah, different family values.
Speaker 2:People with money have different problems, exactly.
Speaker 5:Exactly.
Speaker 2:Church. People are crazy that they don't understand that Across the board you can't minister the same
Speaker 1:way. You can't just throw a blanket If.
Speaker 2:I'm ministering in jail. I can't minister. It does not work. It does not work.
Speaker 5:So I'm trying to say, guys, we're here for the kids. It's about changing the kids' lives, it's not about our stupid program that we're. You must use this. So that got frustrating and that's why I felt like maybe I'm not the right fit. Yeah. Because I tend to let the Lord lead.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 5:And I do what he, what I see works when he leads, and I respond to that matter and it has always worked.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 5:Everywhere I've been. I don't have this program, we're going to make this work, yeah. So I saw the programs killing the kids and I said, because of that, I was like, guys, I still love everyone, we're still friends. And I said, guys, it's not a good fit. Plus, I started doing a Bible study for some adults. They wanted to learn about revelation. I said, yeah, I got all the notes, let's do it. Well, someone thought that I wanted to start another church.
Speaker 1:Oh Jesus, and I'm like you've got to be kidding me, oh no.
Speaker 5:And it was actually the campus pastor and he was a little inexperienced compared to the experience. I had and I don't know if he was insecure. I don't know, but he's like I think you're going to try to start another church. I said I'm doing a Bible study.
Speaker 2:Jesus.
Speaker 5:He goes. Well, we have life groups and they went over the sermons every week. I'm like, yeah, but that's great. But these people want to know the Bible.
Speaker 5:They don't want to go over Cal's sermon again and again and I said they asked me to teach them Revelation and he got. I don't know, he got weird, yeah. And we had a couple of times where we disagreed on things and and he got upset once cause he goes. Well, I heard that so-and-so called you their pastor, that they don't consider me the pastor, they consider you the pastor.
Speaker 4:I'm like what I didn't do nothing about it. Yeah.
Speaker 5:I, but I said okay, so Well, people consider you. I said I'm not the pastor, you're the campus pastor campus head. I said I'm the associate, I know who I am. And I will correct people if they ever say something like that to me and I always refer people back to you for the final say, but somehow that bothered him.
Speaker 2:Right, You're going to make me look bad, so I actually ended up quitting.
Speaker 5:Now here's the funny thing. He was like I think you're going to go start a church. That's exactly what he did.
Speaker 4:Oh wow, he was doing it behind the scenes.
Speaker 5:He had people. He drew people out of the church. He's in Colorado. He's doing well. And God bless him. I think he's a Colorado. He's doing well and God bless him. I think he's a great guy. But I'm just like why are you accusing me of doing something I have no desire to do?
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 5:And I was there, fully involved, you know, and fully in, and so you know I was like maybe it's not the right fit for me, so I, I resigned, yeah, and um, and you know it was kind of sad, but I'm like, and I tell you what Central pays. Well, Amen. So you know I left a good paying job. So from there I had pastor friends in the area. They're like you're a free agent.
Speaker 1:We want to pull you in.
Speaker 5:So I had a pastor friend that I've known since West Coast Christian College. He was at a church not far from here and he's like hey, would you come over and help the youth? I said no, I'm not really. I said we're just kind of. You know, we're taking a break from visiting. He goes. I'd love it if you'd come over.
Speaker 5:So okay we went over and helped. It was a really small church and he and his wife were awesome. Some of the people were awesome, but there were some people in the church that were really hurt and they just were different.
Speaker 5:I'll say and the whole vibe of the church was really different. And my kids, we were there for a while and I told them. I said I'm here for a little bit, I'll tell you when God leads me out. But my kids came to me one day. He said, dad, we don't even enjoy going to church anymore I'm like, okay, it's time to go yeah so I told him, I said, hey, I'm, I'm gonna pursue somewhere else.
Speaker 5:And and we had visited here at lifelink a couple times and we came here because, um, jared and kimberly dunn were on staff for a brief time? I don't know.
Speaker 1:Wow. They were here and then they were gone. I don't know, but while he was here they passed through.
Speaker 5:It was like a pass through, it was I don't know yeah you guys were here, I was here, yeah, wow.
Speaker 1:So they were on staff here she was the first pastor I ever see wear jeans and a t. I said, oh my God, you guys can really just dress like that. What's wrong with?
Speaker 5:that, yes, they can. She was like yes, you can I don't know.
Speaker 1:It was the first time I'd seen it. I was like oh good for you, girl, you go.
Speaker 2:Don't have to wear a long dress and my hair all alone.
Speaker 5:So yeah, they were here and he moved to Seattle or something. Yeah, Well, he was pastor out in um. He was the executive pastor of a multi-site church in corona, california, and he told me he goes. Hey, come out here, I'll hire you. You can pastor one of the campuses. I said I want to be close because my kids are at home and for their mom.
Speaker 5:I said so you know okay so next thing, I know he's over here and Justin, he hired Justin cause Justin applied and he called me. You know this guy, justin. I said hi, do I? He goes. Is he a good guy? I said you'd be a fool not to hire him. Hire him now. Do not let him go. He hired him and Justin rocked it out there.
Speaker 5:Um. So he wanted me to go out there to be on staff at one of those and take over one of the churches. Um, but then they end up here and I knew justin or jared from. He pastored a church around the same time I did. He started a church in mesa and his church got up to like 600 or something. Um I they had some issues. They ended up merging with word of grace which turned turned to City of Grace underneath Pastor. I knew him and I forgot his name.
Speaker 1:I forget it.
Speaker 5:Oh gosh, I can't think of it.
Speaker 2:You're alright, terry Christ.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I know Terry Christ is from Tulsa. He pastored a church when I was there. I don't know where you are.
Speaker 1:Anyway.
Speaker 5:Terry Chris took over for Gary Kinnaman, who was the head pastor for years at Word of Grace. They changed the city of Grace. They opened up Scottsdale campus also. Terry Chris is a great guy, smart, and so, anyway, he comes out of the eagle nest area. His church was eagle nest in tulsa. He was attached to rick godwin out of texas. He's a credible minister anyway. Um everybody's connected.
Speaker 2:I know everyone's connected so um it really is a small world.
Speaker 5:So he, jared, and his wife, merged their church with City of Grace and they went on staff there for a while they did their Bible study. Then they, you know, attached to Hillsong and they're detached from Hillsong after all that debacle. But from there Jared went to California and he hired Justin and anyway, all of a sudden I see that Jaredared's here in in arizona again and he's at lifelink church. I'm like what is this lifelink? Because I saw their signs when they started. I'm like, is that like a medical facility?
Speaker 5:that's what I thought. So, um, then uh, so I call him. Hey, jared, what's up, man? You're back in arizona. Yeah, we're on staff lifelink. What are you doing? What's up, man? You're back in Arizona. Yeah, we're on staff at Lifelink. What are you doing here? What's up with the church in Carolina? He's? Ah. So he told me he goes let's get together and have some coffee. I said, sure, I don't drink coffee, but okay. So we hung out at Agritopia and he lived just across the street. I guess Pastor Tom and Amy bought their house. They live in their house that they own. Anyway, we hung out and he goes. He's talking to me and we caught up on life and he goes yeah, we're here at LifeLink doing ministry. He goes, you should come check it out. And this was when I was helping the other church. But we were like we need to go somewhere else because, I'm not going to do this to my kids.
Speaker 5:I don't care what ministry position you're in. My kids are more important.
Speaker 2:Come on buddy.
Speaker 5:My family is more important. I will drop any ministry position to take care of my family because that's where it starts. My kids are not going to grow up. You know little hellions being a PK in a way. So my kids telling me, dad, we don't even like going to church. Okay, we changed that now, jamal, so anyway. So we came over and visited and that was when Hannah was born. I think, yeah, and we wanted to do a baby dedication.
Speaker 2:And they were doing that a couple weeks later.
Speaker 5:Hannah is six. Yeah, no, no, it had to be Hadassah then.
Speaker 5:Okay, is right, hannah is six, six yeah no, no it had to be hadassah, then okay, because we've been here, for we've been here for about eight years plus okay, a little over, maybe around eight, yeah. So, um, we came and and we had we asked them can we you know we're not members can we have our baby dedicated? Sure, yeah, so they worked out and uh, yeah, there's just a class you have to go through right and they let us. They sent us the notes and let us do that, which was nice.
Speaker 5:We didn't have to come in because I'm like I don't want to go sit down in a class or church I don't attend, I'm a pastor. I can teach the class. What do you want to know about?
Speaker 4:children and the Lord. So.
Speaker 5:I was like I don't want to do that and so we asked Jared, can we get the notes? And they worked it out and yeah, so we got the notes and so, or the, you know, whatever they do go over in the class, and so we did that, submitted it and we brought Hadassah and she was dedicated, and Deidre and Cassandra liked the church and we liked the church. It reminded me of the Church of Queen Creek yeah, of the church at Queen Creek. They were friendly and it was similar a little bit, and so I kind of reminds me of my own church.