SpeakLifeAZ
The testimony of Jesus in, with, and through everyday people like us. A father and son who were addicts for over 20 yrs. You name it, WE DID IT, TOGETHER!!!! we used to use drugs together now we share about what God Has done for us to encourage the body of Christ and anyone else who may listen to this that is feeling hopeless and empty. LISTEN TO OUR STORY...and the testimony of others who feel led to share with you.... GOD BLESS YOU....TODAY WE CHOOSE TO SPEAK LIFE AZ!!!!!!!!!!
SpeakLifeAZ
Shawn H. Testimony #1
What happens when childhood abandonment meets God's redemptive love? Shawn Hernandez's raw, unfiltered testimony takes us on an extraordinary journey through the darkest valleys of human experience into the light of transformation and purpose.
Adopted as an infant after his biological mother repeatedly left him crying alone while she frequented bars, Shawn's early life was marked by instability. At age seven, a catastrophic car accident hurled him through a car window, leaving him in a coma for three and a half months with a traumatic brain injury that required him to relearn walking, talking, and basic cognitive skills.
Perhaps most heartbreaking was Shawn's experience of homelessness at just eleven years old when his adoptive parents kicked him out. For two years, he slept on school rooftops, survived by stealing fruit from neighborhood trees, and cried himself to sleep, desperately longing for love and belonging. "You don't have no clue being an 11-year-old kid, hungry, just wanting love," Shawn shares with raw honesty.
This foundation of rejection led predictably into substance abuse, dealing drugs, and eventually prison time. But during his third incarceration, facing a seven-year sentence, Shawn heard God speak clearly: "I'm not going to give you nothing you can't handle." Those words became his anchor through losing both adoptive parents while incarcerated and rebuilding his life from scratch after release.
Shawn's testimony reaches its most beautiful crescendo when he describes becoming "Dad" to three children who lost their mother—bringing his own experience of childhood abandonment full circle through redemptive love. Now he mentors others, leads prayer at his workplace, and lives a transformed life grounded in faith where he attends Life Link Church and loving his family from a distance until they are all reunited once again.
This episode reminds us that no wound is beyond God's healing touch and no past is too broken for divine restoration. Whether you're struggling with rejection, addiction, or seeking purpose after pain, Shawn's journey offers powerful hope that transformation is possible through surrender and faith.
TODAY WE CHOOSE TO SPEAKLIFE AZ!!! GOD BLESS YOU ALL
all right, everybody. Welcome back to the speak live az podcast testimony of jesus and everyday people. I'm your host, eddie, and always with me is my son rowdy jesus, what up, dude, hi buddy are you dead oh man, it was great morning, dude, awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love saturday mornings. How was your morning? Uh, you're at the shop, are you busy? It's hot man.
Speaker 1:It's the end of july in arizona well, school's getting ready to start, so we're kind of slow. Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, got some things going on. I'm trying not to let my feelings dictate how I see things or do things All right, it's been challenging. Took a little nap today, you know things like that.
Speaker 2:Amen, buddy. Yeah, days like that make me tired, dude, dude, I woke up in the yard out back. I woke up in the yard out back was still wet. I was like, man, we're really gonna have grass. Dude, mom came out and she's all we have good dirt. Well, you know about our bad dirt. Now we got good dirt, dad. Life's just getting better, bud, we can grow things now. Yeah, good things, jesus we don't have landfill.
Speaker 1:Dirt amen that one house. I swear hadills. Yeah, that was bad dirt break parts check your dirt before you rent somewhere.
Speaker 2:Man uh, I'm excited for this.
Speaker 1:This is crazy dude well, I was gonna ask you who you brought, but this is all me again yeah, this one's nuts man. This is two weeks in a row I brought somebody.
Speaker 2:What's really going on? God's using.
Speaker 1:I can't socialize and network. Look at me.
Speaker 2:Bring them in lord, bring them in sean what's up, brother?
Speaker 4:what's up, brother?
Speaker 1:glad to have you on the show man yeah, it's been a while yeah it's been a while we've been trying for a while.
Speaker 2:Amen, bro, it's all in god's time, man amen.
Speaker 1:God made it very clear, dude, that, uh, when his sons or daughters say yes and come on our show to give them honor and to thank you, show them some respect, brother. So we just we want to honor you and say thank you for your time.
Speaker 1:Uh, god's been very clear these last month or so that time is a commodity we don't get more of, it's very limited and we're only having so much that we have in a lifetime, yeah, and for someone to share that with you and give you a piece of that is very, it's very honoring and very valuable. So we thank you for your time, brother.
Speaker 4:Thank you. I think it'll help me just as much as it helps anybody else. Come on, bro.
Speaker 2:For me, bro, this one's a little different, just because people like know that me and dad and stuff my family we used but this is actually going to be, I believe, the first uh podcast that we're recording where the person who we're doing we've actually done life to the point where, like it was back in our old life. Yeah, just so everybody knows this is my old dope dealer.
Speaker 1:But man, we've come a long way, buddy I'm pretty sure we got a refrain from introducing him from now on, brother I would appreciate that.
Speaker 2:Amen, dude, I can't, and for you, but, dude, it just shows us, bro, just what god can do in our life. This is a man of god.
Speaker 1:Yeah, who used to sell dope? That's right. That's right. There we go there we go but it's just my old dope dealer people are like yeah, but now we're in church together now we're in church together.
Speaker 2:Now you're, you're working, you're a productive citizen, you're on paper, you don't have jail and law enforcement down your back, you're not. You literally have a woman and kids in your life. Bro, none of this stuff I can say. When I knew the old Sean, you didn't have any of that bud. So you've come a long way, bro, to be where you are now. Amen.
Speaker 2:And so let me just pray real quick, quick dude and then we'll kind of get in, let's go, bro. Jesus, man, holy spirit, um, god, I just thank you for your timing. You know, lord, um, we, we've, we've asked, and, and everybody's different yep, when they, when they come to, and they just say yes, god, and and they surrender and they're willing. So I just thank you that your timing is perfect and today is that time for Sean. I thank you for what's getting ready to be talked about, god, because he's been the pen in your hand.
Speaker 2:Lord, like I say every time, man, you've been writing this story, he's literally a walking, talking miracle that's sitting before us getting ready to share what you brought him through in life. I pray, god, just for your son, sean, any nerves, anxiety, to just fall away. God, I thank you. These are just three brothers, this is family, lord, and we're here just to show whoever's going to listen to this thing, whoever's going to watch this God, that they can know that man. If you can bring that man through what you brought that man through, then you can do something for me. You can do something for my husband, for my loved one, for my family, for my friend. So, god, I just pray that you use this testimony like only you can anoint it, break yokes and set your people free. I declare that in jesus name amen amen amen.
Speaker 2:Um, when god gave this to us, man, it was, uh, 2020. Uh, covid, it seemed like you know, a lot of people started podcasts and covid um with us. Dude, we, uh, we didn't really we weren't obedient at the beginning man, into what god told us to do, um, but once we actually started to do what god told us to do, this thing just kind of yeah, um, here we are. Later, man, we're in our third season of audio. Um, we're over this year. This is the 36th episode on youtube, man, so it's cool just to be Almost the 90th altogether. Yeah, it's crazy just to be doing something good for this long a period. For myself, sean, I've never done it, so it's cool, man, to be able to do this. But what it is, man, it's just Speak Life AZ podcast.
Speaker 2:Uh, the testimony of jesus and everyday people. Um, it doesn't matter if you're like myself and you're here setting up baptism and cleaning bathrooms and washing walls and windows, man, or you're like dad and you're sleeping waiting for a car to show up dude, cutting and welding, or like yourself, bro, you work with heavy, heavy equipment and big metal, heavy things, and so I mean, but we all have a testimony, we've all come from somewhere. We all, we all are everyday people, man, um, and I think what we just want to get today is who is Sean Um? Who is Sean Hernandez? Where, where, where were you born? Um, what was life like growing up? And? And for me, man, I just know bits and pieces. So this is something where I actually get to learn more about you, brother, and the things you've been through in life. He has a different relationship with you because you guys have crossed paths in so many different intersections in life, whether it be just separate and come back in the hood or go to prison and land up in a prison yard together. You know, I mean you guys, you guys have a special relationship, um, but with me I I can't wait to get to know more about you, bro, um, and then there's people.
Speaker 2:I think the cool thing about this podcast is a lot of our people are involved in it.
Speaker 2:A lot of our people have come and shared um, a lot of our people that we do life with. They listen, yeah, and they watch these things, um, so I would not be surprised, man, if some of our people come alongside you after they watch or listen to this and I'm like, bro, I had no idea, man. Maybe some people are able to relate to some things that you're able to talk about and share, yeah, um, but I think we're just who you are, bro what life was like growing up childhood, school, sports, god was God, something that you grew up with in the home Mom and dad, brothers and sisters, family life and a lot of the stuff, man, that now being in Celebrate Recovery and working these tools to heal from the hurts, the habits and the hangups and stuff later, a lot of that is actually from childhood traumas and the things that happen to us when we're a really young kid, that we're so young we don't even know how to process and deal with the things that are happening to us.
Speaker 1:Or we're told to shut up, or I'll give you something to cry about, don't parent like that. Don't parent like that.
Speaker 2:Are you something to cry about?
Speaker 3:don't parent like that, don't parent like that are you gonna?
Speaker 2:cry I'll give you something to cry about boy, you don't want your kids walking around on eggshells or something, come flying across the room, jesus, um.
Speaker 2:But the most important thing we want today, bro, is um your encounter with jesus, because when when dad had his encounter, he was in Tucson on a max yard in prison. When I had mine, it was August 26, 2014 at 1515 West Grand Avenue in Teen Challenge. I remember the day, I remember right where I was. My whole life changed man. So we want to know they're so personal, they're so unique how god literally draws us to him and he shows himself.
Speaker 1:All of them are a moment. Some of them are a process through time that god reveals himself to you yeah, um, but just so, how god kind of showed himself to you.
Speaker 2:And then afterwards, like how your life started to change because you met the jesus. Dad always talks about how, uh, a real encounter with the living god. It leads to life change, transformation. It leads to things just falling away. Of course we're not perfect, we've all, we're in process, but we dang sure ain't the people we used to be before god. Um, so, just uh, kind of how god's changing your life. And then, at the very end, um, sean, we, we want to know what you're hoping for in the future. But you and dad, bro, you guys got a lot of life left in you. I know God's put some ministry in your heart and some things that you want to do out there on the streets for some people, man. So, like, what do you feel called to do, maybe in your ministry and job or career, and then with your family, what are you hoping for in the future so that we can pray for you at the end?
Speaker 1:but then also our listeners, man, they're faithful and they want to pray for you as well, bro I just had a memory pop up on my phone eight years ago, me, you and rowdy in the truck with a box truck full of boxes of food. Eight years ago, brother, we used to do food ministry. Remember that yeah east apache junction.
Speaker 2:Man, that was trailer parks those are our people.
Speaker 1:That popped up today I was like, oh man, I sure kind of miss that stuff, dude, I mean yeah, that was fun, especially when we started praying with those, those three people, and then, all of a sudden, we open our eyes after praying big old circle, the whole neighborhood's there we got whole.
Speaker 4:The whole truck is surrounded by people. All the gangsters are out there praying with us. It was awesome.
Speaker 1:It was a good time.
Speaker 2:I still remember that boy in that toilet paper. He was so happy Toilet paper.
Speaker 1:He had a roll of toilet paper. I was like what have you been wiping with boy?
Speaker 2:Circle K napkins.
Speaker 1:He wasn't excited about the candy bar, he was excited about the toilet paper Amen, bud, I've been there, amen. So what was it like growing up, sean brother? Yeah, man, tell us about yourself, man.
Speaker 4:Well, it's it was, I don't know.
Speaker 1:When were you born?
Speaker 4:Where was I?
Speaker 1:born when 1972. You're old dude?
Speaker 2:No, I'm just kidding. So were you bud, so were you no brother. Where were you born?
Speaker 4:Mesa.
Speaker 2:Oh wow, You're an original. Og Okay there ain't many of those here bud. A lot of them come in. You can go back and listen to the testimonies. Ohioans- Florida. Right of them come in.
Speaker 4:You can go back and listen to the testimonies ohioans right here we're the majority bud yeah, come on, guys, these are the two you're looking for. When I was a baby I was. I was adopted. That's how I got the last name, hernandez. Yeah, but I was. I was blessed by a man that cared. My parents cared enough to adopt me. Was it all? Was it all fun and games? Huh, can't say it was all rainbows and golden roads but by the grace of God I got through it.
Speaker 5:Amen.
Speaker 4:Uh, I was adopted and I've always wondered, want, wanted to know why I got adopted. Yeah, uh, when I was growing up, when I was really small like one or two I was still in a playpen my parents used to live next door to my biological mom, ella.
Speaker 5:Ella, oh wow.
Speaker 4:And they used to hear me cry while she left me.
Speaker 2:So your biological mom next door would leave, or your ones who adopted you would leave, and the real one would hear you.
Speaker 1:No mom would leave Other way around the adopted ones would hear him cry. Okay.
Speaker 4:And they would come over and get me Take care of you, okay, and they would come over and get me Take care of you. Okay, and take me to the house, they'd leave a note. This is all from what I was told I was one years older, you can't really remember too much.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And they used to come over and get me and take me to their house and then when my mom got home from the bar or whatever she was at, okay Was from the bar or whatever she was okay, okay was. Uh, she'd come over and tell him thank you and stuff. And finally, one night, they just uh viola, which is my mom my adopted mom, yeah, told, told them why don't you just let us have them? Wow and the process started.
Speaker 5:Wow.
Speaker 4:And I got adopted.
Speaker 2:Wow Were you your mom's only kid.
Speaker 4:No.
Speaker 2:Okay, how old was your mom when she had you?
Speaker 4:I don't know. Okay, I didn't do much research in there because there was a lot of disappointments.
Speaker 2:We'll get into that. Yeah, it's like you said, man Viola's your mom. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, it's like you said. Man Viola's your mom. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And since then it took seven years for them to adopt me because they wanted to transfer my name, to change my name legally and my birth certificate and everything. So it took about seven years. Right after the seven years I got into an accident with him. Am I going a little too fast?
Speaker 1:No, sir, all right, it's your story, brother, you tell it.
Speaker 2:Whatever is going to come out today, my man is what's supposed to come? We could literally sit down in six months and do this again, bro. It'll be different. It'll be your story, but it'll come out differently for whoever. So just let Holy Spirit yeah, god's got this thing.
Speaker 4:So when I did I got into an accident right after the Hernandez's got it all finalized and everything.
Speaker 2:Oh wow, Like right after.
Speaker 4:It wasn't within a year, I would say All right, within a year, I would say it was me, my adopted brother, tommy, and my mom and Tommy's wife was pregnant with Jamie, which is my first niece.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, that was back when he was married to Lori Linda Linda.
Speaker 4:Linda was before Lori.
Speaker 1:Oh really.
Speaker 4:Yeah, high school.
Speaker 2:Really this tommy step? Yeah, oh wow, dude, yeah, whoa the fish I love you, buddy.
Speaker 1:Tommy was adopted by joan.
Speaker 4:By as well, no, oh that's that's their boy tommy is viola's son all right from a different marriage. Yes, all right. Okay, all right. So when we got into an accident, my mom me and my mom was in the backseat of a little Toyota Corolla and got a head-on collision with a Corvette. Oop. So I flew out the window. Oh Jesus out the window, oh jesus, 65 yards away from their vehicle and my mom was pinned in the back seat. Tommy only had glass in his arm oh, geez and a couple broken ribs who was driving?
Speaker 2:tommy tommy yeah was he wearing a seat belt?
Speaker 1:we don't know, know, I don't know. People didn't wear seatbelts back then, brother. That's why hell that's why, if it was, it was just a lap belt, jesus.
Speaker 4:Didn't even know what seatbelts were.
Speaker 2:Oh, so what? 72? You were eight at this time. This was like 1980? 80, 81. Yeah, there was a different life back then, man. Yeah then man, yeah, I would say maybe 79, 80, something.
Speaker 4:Okay well, anyways, you flew 65 yards away from the car out of the front windshield, no the side window holy god, dude, the little divider piece. That's what split my head open. That's what what popped my head open like a cantaloupe.
Speaker 2:Did you have a traumatic brain injury?
Speaker 4:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh wow, dude.
Speaker 4:Severely. I was in a coma for three and a half months.
Speaker 5:Oh, wow bro.
Speaker 4:I had to learn how to walk, talk everything all over again, yeah. Completely yeah, wow yeah, but.
Speaker 2:As an eight-year-old kid.
Speaker 4:I think it was seven, seven where was that?
Speaker 1:do you know where the wreck was at?
Speaker 4:yeah, yeah over by the casino really arizona casino mcdowell. Yeah, yep, going through the river bottom no, we were coming down right past you, just east of the casino.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Those fields right there.
Speaker 5:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:We were, like I would say, 85 yards away from Okanama. The cigarette store.
Speaker 1:Yeah, mcclintock and McCullough's Yep, right there, oh really.
Speaker 4:So we were right there, and I was over there.
Speaker 1:Where were you guys going? The drive-thru theater.
Speaker 4:No, we were coming back from the Purple Turtle. It was a bar out there.
Speaker 2:They brought you he's a seven-year-old kid to the bar. What are you doing at the bar, dude? They had good burgers.
Speaker 4:I love you man. Nobody's going gonna watch the kid. We'll bring him with us.
Speaker 1:No, my parents didn't drink they went there to eat, oh, we went there for burgers, oh okay, my, my, my parents were never big no, alcohols no the, the ones who adopted you no drinking, no drugging.
Speaker 4:they they're good.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay. So they saw what was going on with Mama and were like whoa dude.
Speaker 1:They were older Mexican-American people.
Speaker 2:Did they know God? Did they like being in that home? Did you ever see Mama praying? Or was it Catholic? Do you remember anything like that?
Speaker 4:Well, I know that Vi's mom, Mamaw, Grandma Mamaw, she was very spiritually yeah.
Speaker 5:Okay.
Speaker 4:I thank her for everything that she's.
Speaker 2:She taught you and gave you and showed you Endured in me.
Speaker 4:Oh wow, yes, absolutely. She was the praying one for you yeah, give her all the praise for the family yeah you make me cry I love you, mama. But it's funny because after all that, after I did therapy and everything, well, we were in kindergarten together.
Speaker 2:Oh, you remember him going through this dude? I don.
Speaker 1:I don't remember the accident, but it was the accident.
Speaker 4:I was in kindergarten and then I had the accident. Yeah, so we had the kindergarten first and then your accident you had to recover.
Speaker 2:So I had to go back through kindergarten again because of everything. Learning disabilities. Yeah, you had to learn everything speech therapy
Speaker 1:wow bro, anger, problems.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah same neighborhood, though same house, so did that cause you to change?
Speaker 2:even being so young, were you one way before the accident and another way after the accident? I don't know, you don't know. Okay, because like well, I just heard you say anger problem, I was like, oh were, were you mad before or mad after because of it kind of thing, or I don't know.
Speaker 4:I kind of think I was mad altogether.
Speaker 2:Yeah, as a kid just an angry young man. Yeah, okay, you'll, you'll get into well I'll get into more of
Speaker 1:this all right. There's a lot Bear with me. You're the younger brother of.
Speaker 2:Tommy bud and I know that guy, so it's like Jesus, dude.
Speaker 1:There's some other disappointments and stuff, brother, that he'll talk about Tommy's the least, okay.
Speaker 2:All right, yeah, go ahead. Man Just scraps.
Speaker 4:But once I was going through first grade I started getting into a lot of the that was me.
Speaker 1:Go ahead, keep going. He does it all the time, brother, that's my phone.
Speaker 2:He'll get up and go pee and stuff too, brother Just all right, just keep talking don't stop, because I don't know where I was you're gonna keep that you're driving this car bud after the accident.
Speaker 4:After the accident I was going through a lot of speech therapy and um anger problems. I was. I had a lot of anger problems because of just imagine a kid having to go through not being able to talk yeah can't run because cognitive skills are all messed up.
Speaker 1:You haven haven't learned that. Yeah.
Speaker 4:You know your balance is all out of whack. You know you got a huge head because of all the operations that you've had on it. I mean, I was in a coma for three and a half months. Yeah, they were going to pronounce me dead. They were going to pronounce me dead. They were going to take me off, yeah. It was. It was grace of God.
Speaker 5:Yeah, wow, dude.
Speaker 4:All glory to him, but the thing of it is is, when I was going through homeschool I was still they had a speech therapy program that was there for like two years and then they took it away, and meanwhile, while I was going through there, all the kids at homeschool was teasing you you know big dummy.
Speaker 2:Kids are mean dude. Oh yeah, oh yeah bud.
Speaker 1:They're truthful, I mean they just say they got no filter bud. But right they just they just say what they feel. I mean see yeah they don't. They don't, I mean, it is what it is yeah, I don't think they intentionally are trying to be mean. They just have no filter. You know what I mean, so they can say they say the first thing that pops in their mind yep we know some adults like that.
Speaker 2:You guys are special, you guys are special.
Speaker 1:We were just thinking you special oh man love you brother and when he was saying homeschool, that was actually the name of our elementary. It was called homeschool. Yeah, it was homes elementary. So when he was saying homeschool, that was actually the name of our elementary. It was called homeschool. Yeah, it was homes elementary so when he's saying homeschool.
Speaker 3:He's not talking about like our day's homeschool he's talking about homes elementary.
Speaker 2:Oh, I was thinking those two late, those two people who adopted you were homeschooling you. No, it's homes was their elementary back then they didn't do schooling they didn't have homeschool back then.
Speaker 1:no, you went to school. Yeah, we both went to school. Yeah, you weren't in public school. Your parents were going to jail.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and then you get a whooping in front of the cops, All right, but I had to do all the speech therapy and I got a lot of anger problems because of the fact that I was getting teased and my everything was all.
Speaker 1:I wanted to do was fight. Let me ask you a question real quick, because I remember you telling me one time where and I want to know if this was before the accident or after the accident but you said you remember your mom saying she was going to come pick you up and then you waiting by the window and her never coming oh, that's coming.
Speaker 4:Oh, that's okay, that's later all right. Yeah, that's, I wasn't sure.
Speaker 1:I wasn't sure if that was before 11 years old, okay I wasn't sure if that was before the accident or after the accident. Yeah, all right, we'll get that then all right, my bad, no problem brother.
Speaker 4:Yeah, all right. So about we're like eight, eight or nine and I'm still going through all the trauma and everything through the Therapy and recovery yeah, walking and all this. I remember my mom always having my back though, because I would get really bad migraines. I still get them to this day.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:From my car accident and I was getting them and the nurse wouldn't let me call my mom to go home because I need to go home and lay down medicine and put a wash rag over my head and everything. So and I remember my mom going up there and snatching the nurse by the arm and told her that if you ever keep my son from calling me again, beep yeah yeah yeah, and it was that made me feel like she cared.
Speaker 2:Yeah, bud.
Speaker 4:Okay, so right after that, meanwhile, while this was happening, it was about seven years that I didn't speak with Ella, which is my biological mom, and then, all of a sudden, she wanted to try to come in and be.
Speaker 2:Super mom.
Speaker 1:Just be in his life.
Speaker 4:Be in my life what I think for the fact that she wanted to. I mean, I hope this is wrong, but all reality. I think it's because of the settlement that we were getting, jesus all because of the accident money yeah, and I don't know if she was doing it. I mean, I hope and pray that it wasn't for that.
Speaker 2:You never know yeah.
Speaker 4:But anyways, it is what it is. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, so that accident you guys were in, you guys got some money. It wasn't your fault.
Speaker 4:No.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 4:We got a settlement, but it wasn't nothing that I could. You were a kid. Well, the Hernandez put it in a CD for me, so it was grown until.
Speaker 5:I turned 18. Oh wow.
Speaker 4:I think they even moved it to 20, but anyways, we'll get to that. The speech problem I've always had a speech problem and bad teeth and it was. I really had a hard time with it yeah so there was this bus that used to go around and pick people up, pick kids up and take them to the Church of Christ the Joy Bus. The Joy Bus, that's right, the Joy Bus. Glory to the Joy Bus. Yeah, and Jason Ken used to go with us.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and we used to go there and we, we used to go there and we, we used to go there for for Sunday school, and then then we started just ditching, and then we would go to pizza mart and get the 10 cent ice cream cones and play video games. Play video games and if we just. But I remember my mom never stopped me from that. She would ask me before if I wanted to go and right around this time is if you wanted to go to church on the joy bus yeah, yeah, they didn't go it would go through the neighborhood.
Speaker 1:Brother, this is the same bus I used to.
Speaker 4:I told you about when I told my dad I asked about church, he said joy bus comes by every Sunday, catch a ride. Same bus, brother, we did this.
Speaker 1:We'd literally go through the neighborhoods and pick up kids.
Speaker 4:I don't know if Jason Kinn's parents made them go, but I know that my parents never made me go.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:I kind of went because.
Speaker 5:I wanted to.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Never made me go. Yeah, I kind of went because I wanted to. Yeah, because I heard all these stories in sunday school that I wanted I wanted to get to know.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean, I wanted him to actually help me with all my problems, because for a little kid I had a lot of problems. Yeah, so, and that was just the beginning. Well, she started coming into my life trying to, and it's like Eddie was brought up earlier, about 9 or 10 years old. She promised me that she would come get me for my birthday.
Speaker 2:Oh, and it was a birthday.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I sat there in front of the window and I waited all day.
Speaker 2:Were they still at the place where you live, right next door to your biological they?
Speaker 1:what they never moved, brother, they lived at the same house. No, no, no.
Speaker 4:They moved from there when, after the Hernandez's, started adopting me they moved away. They bought the house on 8th Avenue.
Speaker 1:Oh okay, Where'd you guys do that before that?
Speaker 4:They were at some, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Really Some neighborhood. I just remember you at the 8th Avenue one. Yeah, oh nice.
Speaker 4:This is when they started adopting me. That's when they moved to 8th Avenue.
Speaker 5:All right.
Speaker 2:And we were there the whole, yeah, the whole generation, yeah, um yeah, the eighth half home.
Speaker 1:That was the first house I met you at. That was the one I would come and buy it.
Speaker 2:They lived in a little room that was uh used to be a cardboard that they converted into an apartment studio.
Speaker 4:Yeah, a one bedroom, yeah it was a one bedroom. A lot of work done in that house come on, buddy um wow, the window, the window I got a little. I love you bro forgive me. No, bro, you ain't claiming dementia.
Speaker 2:You were in a traumatic car accident and had a TBI. Bro.
Speaker 4:You're good dude. So I was waiting there for my birthday the whole time, the whole day, and Vi and Joe were getting mad yeah, Because they don't like seeing me.
Speaker 5:Yeah, man.
Speaker 4:Because they know that she wasn't going to come. Yeah Damn. But she told me on the phone and then I kept calling, and calling and calling and she wouldn't answer, of course, and the whole day. So finally, I think it was about 6, I said, nope, get in the car.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:We're going to Jack in the Box. So we went to Jack in the Box and got us Back. Then the Jack in the Box was big.
Speaker 1:Yeah, big burgers, yeah yeah.
Speaker 4:Like bigger than Whopper's.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:But anyways, we went there, I had my meal and I'll never forget that that was one of the. That was like one of the first major letdowns that my biological mom did Rejection.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, and.
Speaker 1:Disappointment Rubber promises.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean.
Speaker 5:Well.
Speaker 2:What's wrong with you, kind of thing Like why doesn't my own mom want me man?
Speaker 4:What the hell is wrong. All that yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, brother, it's real dude. We'll get to that.
Speaker 4:That was at least. All right. But after that I mean it was like a year or two we had the. This was about 10 years old, because I remember when I was turned 11 I was really starting to hang out with you. Mike Curtis I don't know if I should say their full names- keep it minimal, alfred love you. I don't know if I should say their full names. Keep it minimal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, alfred, love you, alfred, yeah, yeah. Boys in the hood, yep.
Speaker 2:Alfred, oh, that was the Christian we met. Huh Dad, yeah, he passed away.
Speaker 3:He had to trade for her. Yeah, man, he passed away.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, bless his heart.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:We'll see again. Awesome brother in the lord. Yes, yeah, the healthiest one out of all of us.
Speaker 3:He was the one kid bro that when we were doing dumb things.
Speaker 1:He's like I'm good, I'm good, I'll stay here. I mean I'm good yeah never. We never want to be part of the dumb stuff I mean he would drink and party with us, but when it came down to the dumb, stuff committing crimes.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so once I started that it started. I think my mom started, because they were already smoking weed and stuff.
Speaker 1:I can name it that by that age they were already smoking weed and stuff.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, we were getting it from the boyfriend.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 4:I remember trading packages of Oreos.
Speaker 2:For sacks of weed.
Speaker 4:That's great For weed and coke. That's how available things were, oh yeah. But it got to a point where I got. I don't know if my mom had so much, so much going through her mind. This is I'm talking. When I say mom, I mean oh, my wife. Yeah, oh.
Speaker 1:He'll always refer to Vi as mom, and his real mom is Ella. Okay, just so you know, all right.
Speaker 4:So when my mom she I don't know if she was going through a lot of things I know she was loving. Yeah, she loved me.
Speaker 1:Well they were. How old were they when they adopted?
Speaker 2:you? Yeah, they were older, bro, they were in their 60s right.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:So they were 60s when they adopted him, so by the time he's 10, they're they're mid to late 70s, bro. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so that they were. They were definitely older, so I was brought up by an older hand, should I say yeah, just a different way man yeah old school yeah yeah, you did something wrong.
Speaker 1:You you felt it oh yeah yeah, yeah it wasn't they were old school mexican americans brother.
Speaker 4:Oh, yeah, yeah and they didn't hold back no you're gonna learn.
Speaker 1:You got out of line.
Speaker 3:You got out of line, don't don't, you'll get back in line, you'll get back in line quick, all right, but um, I remember my mom snatched me up by the small hairs on the back of your neck.
Speaker 4:She get a hold of some of those and you'd go anywhere she tied a toe, you'd go, brother.
Speaker 1:I remember my mom snatching me up by the small hairs on the back of your neck. She'd get a hold of some of those and you'd go anywhere. She told you to go, brother.
Speaker 2:Oh, violet, would grab you like that. No, my mom, that's just a different generation they were.
Speaker 1:They'd snatch you up by the nap of your neck and get you moving. Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:I wish my mom would have grabbed me.
Speaker 1:Grab you by the ear and let's go. Grab you by the ear and let's go. Yeah, I wish my mom would have grabbed me by the ear or the hair.
Speaker 4:You got to remember she had a plastic hip so she didn't get.
Speaker 5:She was a good baseball player.
Speaker 4:She could throw things. I got scars on the forehead that it was definitely ricochet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're not talking chanclas either.
Speaker 4:No, these are seven pound glass astrays that are flying through the front window screen. Oh, they did oh yeah so I I think there was a lot going on with her. Maybe it was between her and joe of. I just didn't let nobody else know yeah but how many?
Speaker 2:kids were in the house, me just you, yeah, because tommy.
Speaker 4:By that time tommy's already in high school and he's already got his wife and already having a kid, because he was having a kid by the time, I think he graduated high school or got out of high school.
Speaker 1:I think tommy's older than your mom or about the same age as your mom. Okay I mean so there's a eight ten year gap there oh, at least yeah, 10 to 11 or something like that yeah but anyways, tommy was good to me when I was younger.
Speaker 4:He used to take me on dates with him. You know what I mean he was like.
Speaker 2:He liked having you around. Yeah, wow, normal older brothers are like dude. Get away from me, man, you're so annoying.
Speaker 4:Well, I don't know if it was like he.
Speaker 1:I think him, being older, he's seen everything Sean was going through. You know what I mean. So if it, was like he.
Speaker 4:I think him, being older, he's seeing everything sean was going through and you got to remember he was driving, yeah. So I wonder. I've sometimes wondered, thinking in his thinking, in the back of my mind does he feel guilty because he was driving and he got into that car accident and had to put me through all this? You know, maybe that's why he?
Speaker 5:always wanted me yeah.
Speaker 4:Because you got to remember, when I was like 10 years old, he bought me an ATC.
Speaker 5:You know what.
Speaker 4:I mean, he bought us both ATCs, but you know what?
Speaker 1:I mean yeah.
Speaker 4:That was with his settlement.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, a little guilt there, yeah.
Speaker 4:I think so, but I never got to sit down and talk, because that's, I don't know. Past is a past.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Let that be known.
Speaker 1:That's sleeping dogs, lie man.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah. So once Vi and Joe started seeming different to me, they kicked me out of the house when I was 11.
Speaker 2:Where'd you go Everywhere? Me out of the house when I was 11.
Speaker 4:Where'd you go everywhere you had other family to go to no, no, I didn't have, I was on my own top of the roof of school.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I lived off of fruit trees. You were homeless, yeah, several 11 years old. Sometimes some of the kids would let him sleep at their house things like that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, it was like for two years the first time Jesus bro and I went to school. Wow, it was rough.
Speaker 2:Everybody knew what you were going through.
Speaker 4:No they didn't.
Speaker 2:Nobody knew, nobody knew.
Speaker 4:I didn't let only very few know. Yeah, it was hard.
Speaker 2:Damn dude.
Speaker 4:You got to understand that when I was homeless and I was sleeping on top of mason jr's roof it's not there, no more. But uh, I was back there laying next to the air conditioning heater. They had a little fence like a secure thing over around it. Yeah, that all you had to do was climb over, but it was warmer in there, so I stayed in there and I used to cry myself to sleep. I just wanted somebody to love me. You don't have no clue being an 11-year-old kid, hungry, just wanting love. It's hard, it's really hard, it's. I got through with all that through my three brothers that got me through. Eddie Mike and Alfred. That got me through it. Eddie Mike and Alfred, that got me through it. I'm serious. You know how many times I've walked over the bridge Shit.
Speaker 2:Sean, you wanted to die.
Speaker 4:I was already on top of the fence. I was ready.
Speaker 2:Holy crap, dude, as 11, 12, 13-year-old boy. Yeah, damn dude, it's rough. God will give you what you need, man. Thank God for good brothers, good friends.
Speaker 4:You know, mike Cutters helped me a lot too.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Shirley.
Speaker 2:Yeah, bless her heart. Yep, mike's mama.
Speaker 1:They live right there on Nevada Way.
Speaker 4:I could say that they helped me and you, mom, pops I mean Pops didn't like me there all the time.
Speaker 2:Pops, I mean Pops didn't like me there all the time Up until this point, bro, was there any God or any religion outside of just a joy bus and going?
Speaker 4:to church like that. I was feeling like God didn't want to know me Because I was up there, Trust me. I was praying.
Speaker 2:Praying bud.
Speaker 4:Damn yeah, I was praying Praying bud. Damn yeah, I was praying, you know, and it was hard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's real man.
Speaker 4:It was so hard to to just get through that All reality. I mean it was. I felt like I was not worthy. Yeah, Even my adoptive parents didn't want me, Didn't want you. Yeah, so it was. I felt like it was.
Speaker 2:It seemed like nobody wanted you.
Speaker 1:You asked him earlier about how he felt, like he just said nobody wanted him. Can you imagine that brother being 11, 12 years old and your mom dipped out on you and now your adoptive parents are kicking you out? I mean, how would an 11, 12-year-old kid feel man, it would feel like yeah like you said, hungry. Unlovable. You know what I mean. I'm unlovable. Nobody wants me you know, what I mean. Yeah, it's hard.
Speaker 4:Absolutely yeah man. I got so good on walking on the fences and I wasn't doing it to steal, I was just doing it to get some food.
Speaker 2:I guess I'm stealing, yeah, but my main thing was just for the fruit trees Hop and grab some oranges Makes us full of them, brother.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, Makes us full of them Oranges, grapefruits, we could do the catwalk we used?
Speaker 4:to call it the catwalk, because you know how the cats always walk along the fence. Yeah, do the catwalk.
Speaker 5:We used to call it the catwalk, because you know how the cats always walk along the fence.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we got so good that we could walk all the way down the whole block. Yeah, on top of the fence. Yeah, then we didn't have to worry about the dogs or nothing because they can't jump six feet.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Does it make you nervous because the big dogs are shaking the fence?
Speaker 2:a little bit. Yeah, I could just see you guys walking the catwalk.
Speaker 4:But that's one of the reasons I mean.
Speaker 2:How the hell did you make it out of that couple years? What changed? What happened that brought you? Did Ella, did they open their home back?
Speaker 4:to you. I think this is what did it is. I got stopped by the cops one time, and it was, and they told me that where do you live? And I told them, you see it? And they said, no, where where's your house? So I gave them Joe and Vi's house.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:They went there and they told me that I had to stay there. Oh, wow. So they let me in for three or four months. See, you got to remember Joe, which was my dad. He's a truck driver and he was always driving out of town, so he would be gone and all the pressure and everything of the house and everything would be on by. So I think that had a lot to do with her angry at me all the time because I'm there. It's not like.
Speaker 2:You're not being good, you're a little knucklehead.
Speaker 5:I'm boy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all right, all right.
Speaker 4:And did they buy me a lot of stuff? Yeah, when I was a kid I was somewhat spoiled. I mean, I had nice bikes. Remember my Royce Union, mike, you do.
Speaker 2:But even as you're talking about this stuff, I can tell that's not what you wanted. You didn't want that nice stuff, you wanted the love.
Speaker 4:That's all I wanted. That's all you wanted. You didn't want that nice stuff.
Speaker 2:You wanted the love. That's all I wanted.
Speaker 4:That's all you wanted, Damn dude, and I don't think, unless somebody's been through it, I don't think they have a clue of what it's like to be a child and not loved, because everybody I know they love their children, they love their children and their children know that. But just imagine being on top of a roof. It was hard. Anyways, I want to get past this. Yeah, okay, so this was about 11, 12-ish.
Speaker 2:Go back over to mom and dad's house. You're living there.
Speaker 4:Yeah, the cops took me back.
Speaker 2:And this whole time you're still going to school. Yeah, you graduated sixth grade. You graduated seventh grade. You're in eighth grade. Yeah, I graduated. Wow, dude, yeah, wow.
Speaker 4:Back then we started hanging out, mesa Junior, we started hanging out at the wall, at the wall.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mentioned that with Chris Peterson.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Where the Mormon mission. What the hell was that thing called the Mormon place.
Speaker 2:The temple Seminary.
Speaker 1:Seminary class was yeah the wall. I told you people would go smoke cigarettes and stuff man.
Speaker 4:That was seminary after school. Yeah, the wall was before school.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:That was at the gas station.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, over by 7-Eleven, 7-eleven, 7-eleven. The wall, that wall that divides them.
Speaker 4:That's what we called the wall All the stoners and Hang out smoke cigarettes Real winners.
Speaker 2:They're going places in life, jesus. Bless them. It was a different time, bro. Yeah, amen.
Speaker 1:Amen 82, 83. That's totally different. Yeah, no clue.
Speaker 4:Amen 82, 83. That's totally different. Yeah, no clue.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just different.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we had Mr Powell driving around on a golf cart chasing us.
Speaker 1:Mr Powell, that's funny.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Didn't he wear really short blue shorts?
Speaker 4:Yeah, really tall, like a six foot.
Speaker 1:You remember the old basketball shorts? I think he was a coach. Right, Wasn't he a coach?
Speaker 4:I thought he was just security.
Speaker 1:He might have been security.
Speaker 2:He's really tall and he wears the hiked up shorts, dude oh yeah, coach Harmon.
Speaker 4:And he'd catch you too.
Speaker 5:Oh yeah, he's fast, he'd catch you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was back when I still spanked you with paddles bud. Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, well, as I was going through all this, I Got into Some trouble at Macy Jr.
Speaker 2:So what do you? Up to this point, sounds like you're just Smoking cigarettes, smoking weed and doing coke.
Speaker 4:I wasn't doing coke too often.
Speaker 2:I mean whenever it was around or something. Okay.
Speaker 4:It was mainly weed. Okay, this is about seventh, seventh, eight-ish.
Speaker 5:Okay.
Speaker 4:And right after, right about the middle of the eighth grade, I got kicked out again.
Speaker 2:Of school or your house. My house Okay. And that's For doing something that you shouldn't have been doing during Mesa Junior.
Speaker 1:Oh I don't even know. Okay, he was running amok, brother. He was already running amok. All right, smoking weed hanging out, probably hanging out Late, even know. Okay, he was running amok, brother, he was already running amok, all right.
Speaker 2:Smoking weed hanging out, probably hanging out Eight at night.
Speaker 4:Yeah, oh my, you got to remember back then my mom went to bingo, so there was really no supervision.
Speaker 2:Nobody was at home though no man Okay.
Speaker 4:You're over at your buddy's house and you're smoking, hanging out and doing whatever. Don't dare take them to the house. No, they were all scared of my mom.
Speaker 2:I ain't going to your house, dude.
Speaker 4:They seen. They seen my mom in action.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's.
Speaker 1:I can only remember being inside your house a couple times. I remember seeing all the Indian.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Kachina dolls and stuff like that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we had all of them from age high to three and a half feet high.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's all I remember yeah, maybe once or twice that I remember going in there and just remembering all the Kachina dolls.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, that was from Mamaw.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's some sick ones dude Really nice ones. Had some in cases, dude, that were like probably worth some money.
Speaker 2:All of them were worth money, Especially nowadays. Man.
Speaker 1:Told them polls. I mean they were way into Indian artifacts, dude. They had so much in there it was crazy.
Speaker 2:Are you of Indian blood?
Speaker 4:Well. Mamaw no but Mamaw owned some property over and through new mexico that some indians lived on and they didn't, yeah, trade for cool, for for rent and stuff they would make make the dolls they worked at her jewelry store or her pawn shop? Yeah, it's back. Then it was a trading post. Yeah, oh yeah, it wasn't a pawn shop.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I got family up in Page up on the Navajo side, so they have that, uh, the trading post that they they traded, they made jewelry for at a trading post and they would do the Kachina dolls, the other family, Cause it was a big chunk of land that they all lived on yeah, you got to do what you can, man but anyways could you imagine if you still had those dolls today?
Speaker 1:holy crap, dude, I'd be. I have one, do you yeah?
Speaker 4:nice dude, I have one nice you know who gave it to me uh lori really yeah, wow, because you got to remember, got to remember, but I'll get to that, yeah, well, anyways, I was about 11, 8th or 9th grade and I got kicked out of the house.
Speaker 1:Yeah 13-ish, yeah, 14-ish.
Speaker 4:I got kicked out of the house again. Yeah, 13-ish, yeah, 14-ish. I got kicked out of the house again. This time I got met up with some of the biker of Philly, Mike Little Mikey. Well, no, Little Mikey was back when we had. Well, yeah, he was, but he wasn't on this.
Speaker 5:No.
Speaker 4:This was on the cross the street, remember where Tracy lived Right behind me.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:Okay, caddy, corner from the, not Mike Miller, but the other direction. Yeah, yeah. Well, anyways, Over there and I got mixed up with some older people that was a dozen back then. Yeah, yeah I don't like they're not around anymore, brother, I know.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I just, you was always told that you don't 44 I was always told that you don't 44.
Speaker 5:Yeah so.
Speaker 4:I started getting into the meth yeah, and it was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is the late 80s, early 90s Old backer dope bud.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, bud, it was called crank, back then Jesus.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it was the real stuff peanut butter crank. Yeah, not stuff you can see through.
Speaker 1:It looks like peanut butter yeah this was looking like dirt dope. Yeah, it was biker dope.
Speaker 4:It was dirty, yeah, it was biker dope buddy. Yeah, that's a bugger though, but well, back then I just, I just thought they'll stick inside your nose and burn like nobody's business.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for like an hour a dime will keep you up for three days.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I don't have to do a dime yeah god dude, you just do it yeah, but anyways thank you for new life and that's when Sean started getting into and oh, the one in the Wheelchair.
Speaker 2:Yeah, ah.
Speaker 1:Gotcha, we won't say his last name. No, we'll keep him anonymous.
Speaker 4:Yeah, along with Mikey and yeah. So now we're starting. And Vic, yeah, all those are starting to get Into the yeah the mix. So now we're starting and Vic All those are starting to get into the mix. So now it's really.
Speaker 2:It's a whole crew.
Speaker 4:Yeah. So at this time I've drifted away from even praying anymore. Yeah, Because I felt like I You're too bad. Well, I look back and I think there was no response to him.
Speaker 2:There was no answer there was no, he didn't save you.
Speaker 4:I never had any answer, you know, and I, I prayed faithfully For you know, a good year and a half, yeah, and I didn't hear anything.
Speaker 4:I didn't see nothing yeah well me thinking I didn't see anything, but anyways it was. At that point in time I lost all focus of even attempting to pray or get in touch time. I lost all focus of even attempting to pray or get in touch with the Lord. At this time, all I want to do is run amok, and it was not a very good one. I mean, we've seen people get beat up with golf clubs in the middle of the road to getting shot in the head, getting blood splattered all over you. It was.
Speaker 2:Not the life that a 14 or 15-year be involved in. No, jesus dude. Yeah, so did you drop out of high school too?
Speaker 1:and this is right about the time where the hell's angels are starting to move into mesa, and now there's this hell's angel dirty dozen battle going on.
Speaker 2:You know, I mean, it was crazy time, brother did you drop out of school or did you end up finishing high school?
Speaker 4:I went all the way to the senior and then I got kicked out of Mesa School District for having a gun.
Speaker 1:I don't even think Mike got kicked out of Mesa School District and he was bad.
Speaker 4:I don't think he was that bad.
Speaker 1:He was at Mesa Vista.
Speaker 4:But didn't he choose to go there because it started later?
Speaker 1:No, he might have.
Speaker 2:I'm going to go there because it starts later. I can sleep in. I love you, Uncle Mike.
Speaker 5:He kept going to school high.
Speaker 1:Or would go to school.
Speaker 4:Didn't we all go to school high? Yeah, I mean let's keep it real. I mean that's why we started over at the wall.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Smokeable before we had to go listen to all these teachers, I mean, but my hands are sweaty. It was at this time that I was getting into the meth scene and I was not doing the greatest. I was not doing the greatest, I was having the addiction. And then I think the only reason why I really did dope is so I could have some place to sleep.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:If I had dope I would have a place to sleep, because I just let them do the dope so I some place to sleep. Yeah, If I had dope I would have a place to sleep, because I just let them do the dope so I can go to sleep. I mean I, yeah. How many times have I been to the house and say I just don't want to, I just want to yeah.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:I, you have to remember this whole time I was still in search of feeling that love.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Acceptance. Place to belong, just love period.
Speaker 4:I think, Love covers such a large ground. Yeah, when it comes to a kid, a teenager, yeah. Love is important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, making sure that those kids know it, that they are loved, that you show it to them, that you tell them, that you hug them.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's rough going through life, feeling that you're never wanted, never loved. Yeah, I mean, I don't know, I got.
Speaker 1:Get you a drink, brother, yeah.
Speaker 2:And the crazy thing is, sean, sean is, while you're talking about, while you're sharing, god is literally showing me like other people in your life that actually did love you and care about you. But it's just those weren't the people that you wanted to love and the acceptance from yeah, there was this certain select group of humans that these are the people that need to love me and show me. Love these other ones cool, they do, but that's not these are the ones that I need it from and that well, if it wasn't for, like I said before, my three brothers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, your brothers.
Speaker 1:It's different, brother, when you have parents that love you, adopted or not. That's a different kind of love.
Speaker 4:A brother can't give you what you're looking for.
Speaker 1:No man. They can give you acceptance and a place to sleep and all this other stuff, but have parental love.
Speaker 4:Abundant love.
Speaker 1:Love beyond measure, love that, no matter what you do, you're still loved, like a parent is supposed to love you yeah, you can come here and you're safe here and different than your brother's loving you you know, I mean yeah it's, it's a lot different. It is it's family, brother. When family loves you, it's family. You feel safe, you feel accepted, you feel a part of something you know. I mean, that's different, dude, I mean yeah, yeah yeah so?
Speaker 2:so what'd you do? Senior year?
Speaker 1:you made it up until senior year, and then you got kicked out yeah, you never got in trouble with the law when when you were in junior high high school school.
Speaker 4:Yeah, as far as like going to juvie or anything. I got arrested for aggravated assault on. Did you shoot?
Speaker 1:a gun at Tommy or somebody? Did you shoot a gun sometimes I?
Speaker 4:shot guns all the time I mean like in anger. Still shoot guns all the time. I mean, like in anger Still shoot guns all the time.
Speaker 2:I love you, buddy, be careful, there might not be sexual limitations on that Never mind brother. They have to have proof, they have to have proof. I can say all I want to say.
Speaker 1:I'm missing the fingers now, no, but I just don't remember if you ever went to jail or not as a Jew.
Speaker 4:I got arrested for there was this guy named Barry that lived down the street, three doors down from a death.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And his cousin was Aaron and he came over. Well, you got to remember I was always short and remember my temper. So I'm not going to let these big old guys come to my front door and bully me, threaten to kick my butt. So what did I do? I went to my tackle box, got my fillet knife. I'll go out there, let's make it even. Yeah, you know, yeah, you two guys, me and him. Well, they started wrestling with me and I. I went down like that and I filleted his knee right to the bone. Yeah, I got in trouble for that. They called the cops. They tried getting the life.
Speaker 2:Start with a deadly weapon. Damn dude.
Speaker 4:But I beat it, it was self-defense. They came to my house and threatened to kick me, kick my butt.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:But it was where I went wrong. The cops were saying, as I left, I shut the door. I came back with the weapon. They said you should have just stayed inside. Who? Does that? Right, I mean nobody on this street does that. I said it might.
Speaker 3:It might be on your street you gotta stand your ground on your toes.
Speaker 2:All right.
Speaker 4:Okay, so right through all this time.
Speaker 1:When's the last time you've been through the neighborhood?
Speaker 4:Two weeks ago.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I love driving through there every now and then.
Speaker 4:I got to drive through. Just look at Mom and Dad's house.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my house growing up don't even look the same, it looks nice, it looks like. Look the same, it looks nice, it looks like a nice house, it looks nice. I was like oh wow, they did a really good job with it.
Speaker 4:Well, the only thing I see different about my house is they put a a brick fence around the back.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Remember where we had the wood, the chain link fence, oh, the chain link fence.
Speaker 5:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:Because we they would always reach through and grab my peaches.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah. And then I got those chows that would, yeah, stop all that yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like driving to the old neighborhood every now and then Trip down memory lane. Yeah, fraser and 8th Avenue.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Drive by the 8th Avenue locals old place and be like, oh yeah, I remember that place. Oh yeah, andre's house.
Speaker 4:I still got scars all over my knees from playing football with those.
Speaker 2:Chicanos out there in the middle of the road good times, man. Oh yeah, good times yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't know what you'd call it, but they were times what'd you do after high school?
Speaker 2:that's what you'd call it, but there were times.
Speaker 4:What'd you do after high school? That's when full-blown yeah.
Speaker 2:Let's talk about it, what it looked like for you.
Speaker 4:I got kicked out of Mesa High for having a gun. I got into an altercation with a guy named Jeremy and he pulled a knife on me on the side of my house right there on Hobson, and I told him you better think about this, because if you don't know how to use that, I'm going to stick that right in your ass and I'm going to break you off a piece. Well, Break you off a piece. Well, he nicked me and he got us stuck in his ass.
Speaker 5:Sorry, yeah, you good.
Speaker 4:And I blacked out.
Speaker 1:We love Jesus, but we'll cut you baby. Yeah.
Speaker 2:We love Jesus, we just cuss a little.
Speaker 4:And I blacked out. Tommy came out and pulled me off of jeremy because I was beating his head against the brick fence. I I didn't know what I was doing. Yeah, I was yeah gone yeah, I really can't. I don't even know what I was seeing. I can't describe anything.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Well, they all came back because he was in the west side, west side Mesa, it was one of the gangs, so Up there on like center and university, wasn't it? They were all over. Yeah, Up there on like Center and University wasn't it. They were all over. Yeah, they were right down the street. Junior and Bato and all them was right down the street from 8th Avenue Country Club A Hobson yeah. Right there on Hobson.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:So they're all over. And there was a lot of them, so now they're after me because I got one of them and they Jeremy didn't tell him the whole story of what really happened, he just played it off to where he looks good, like you jumped him or something. Yeah, like I'm the one that came at him with a knife and just yeah, so they're all after me. And we had a big ordeal at Mesa High because they cornered me and you remember Corey Corey and Robert Scott. I shouldn't be saying that.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're good.
Speaker 4:And O'Bannon.
Speaker 1:O'Bannon, that sounds familiar. Corey O'Bannon, yeah, that sounds familiar.
Speaker 4:Yeah, he helped me. Yeah, when they had me cornered. Yeah, thank you, because I didn't know and he helped me. And after that they're saying that they're going to come back tomorrow. Well, you're not coming back. Ain't catching me slipping? Yeah, yeah, I'll be ready. So I had my little 38 in coming back. Ain't catching me slipping, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll be ready.
Speaker 4:So I had my little 38 in my back. Well, I don't know how somebody found out. Yeah, at Mesa High I don't know how they seen it because I kept it pretty hidden yeah, but they called me in and they freaked out. They freaked out. We heard that you have a gun and there was security on both sides of the door outside this principal's office. We heard that you have a gun. I said so you know what I mean. Yeah, I said, have you seen it? No, and don't worry about it. I said I'm not here to shoot nobody. But back then they didn't know about school shootings. Yeah, it wasn't like it is't know about school shootings.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it wasn't like it is now.
Speaker 4:No.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 4:No, no, not at all. Yeah, I wasn't there. I didn't have a gun to shoot up a school. For the record, I was there. I had a gun for self-defense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they were going to jump you.
Speaker 4:They were going to jump you. They were going to jump you and you ain't jumping me. And there's a lot of them, yeah. So I figure, if I just put a hole through one or two of them, the rest of them are going to stop and say, whoa, yeah, think twice. Yeah, maybe I don't have to, yeah, maybe they're good. You know what I mean. Yeah, that was my thinking. Yeah, but you've you know what I mean. That was my thinking, but you gotta remember my mindset was not all well, they were just there the day before.
Speaker 4:Yeah so I'm nervous. Did I ever have anybody that I could say hey, help me out? I've pretty much been a loner, because I've. I didn't speak right and wasn't the smartest kid around, so I got kicked out of. So I gave him the gun and they were telling me you're going to be in so much trouble. I don't know how I could be in trouble when it's my gun. It's my gun, I bought the gun, so you can't really do much. So, anyways, I had the gun back the next day. My dad had to go down there and get it. Which did I get my butt whooped from my dad? Yeah, absolutely. And when you got your butt whooped from your dad, your dad is well.
Speaker 3:Pops is a big boy too. Oh, yeah, just like you knew it, just like Joe was. Oh yeah, you knew it. Oh you feeling it, oh yeah, for a couple of days. Yeah, it's some blood's getting drawn.
Speaker 1:It's amazing how big their hands are.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh To To a young boy. That ham was huge, they had sausage fingers brother.
Speaker 4:Things were boom, I swear, my dad's fingers were like this big around. He's a truck driver, so he's massive, meaty.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And those rings hurt. I remember him going like that Bam, there's a knot, there's a knot, there's a knot. It was and it's just once I got kicked out, it just went full blow.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And I just told them that I wanted my settlement and the race was on. That's when we started hanging out with Roger.
Speaker 2:I heard stories about that guy. How long were you in prison from then until you got locked up your first time?
Speaker 1:I was a little bit oh.
Speaker 4:I didn't go to prison for a long time.
Speaker 5:Oh, wow.
Speaker 4:I didn't go to prison until I was almost 30.
Speaker 5:Yeah, oh wow, All right 2000.
Speaker 4:No 98. Yeah 98.
Speaker 1:I went in 93. Yeah, yeah, 98. I went in 93.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah. So after that, it was then that I started really messing with the drugs.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Competition with Eric.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we got crazy right then.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's when we all started. It's like I went through $70,000 in a year.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Everybody around me partied.
Speaker 1:Eric was starting his aunt for money.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, I'm starting his aunt for money, oh yeah.
Speaker 5:I'm Rosie, rosie.
Speaker 1:Yeah, roger knew where to get all the dope.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and it just seems like once I started getting into that it just escalated, because then I started going back to the connections that I had prior and started getting quantity instead of little A-bone here, why don't I buy chunks?
Speaker 1:why don't I buy chunks?
Speaker 4:and then I can break these guys off because they want the little stuff and it just pays for yeah so now I can get high for free. Why? Because these guys are paying for it all, and it's. I'm not giving glory. Don't get me wrong on any of this. I don't give glory to anything that's not of Christ.
Speaker 1:What the reality is. It was life, though. For us, that was the reality of the neighborhood and the people that we were hanging out with. Man.
Speaker 4:You know why I did dope? I think.
Speaker 1:I know why I did dope.
Speaker 4:For numbing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, didn't want to feel nothing.
Speaker 4:So I did it for so I could numb myself.
Speaker 5:Yeah, man.
Speaker 4:So I could have a place to sleep.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Because I didn't want to be homeless on that school roof again. Yeah, man, so I could have a place to sleep. Yeah, because I didn't want to be homeless on that school roof again.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:You have to remember I didn't actually get my own place until I got that settlement, and then it was a little tiny trailer that was only like On Main Street 20 feet long on Del Rosa or something like that.
Speaker 5:Really.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and it was.
Speaker 1:I remember you in the trailer on Main Street Yep.
Speaker 4:Del Rose.
Speaker 1:That's where we were sitting in the mirror, blowing clouds, looking at the self-blown clouds in the mirror. They opened the trailer door.
Speaker 4:Looked like it was on fire. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's $70,000. Back then it was a lot of money. Yeah, man $20,000 more and you could have bought a house.
Speaker 2:Nowadays it's a lot of money. No.
Speaker 1:Not like it was back then. No, I'm telling you You're almost buying a house.
Speaker 4:Nowadays it's a lot of money, no, not like it was back then.
Speaker 1:No, I'm telling you, you're almost buying a house 70 grand back then, when people are making four dollars an hour. Oh yeah, that's. Yeah. Yeah, you're buying a house. You might a house now with that.
Speaker 4:It's barely a down payment, yeah, so I had the money and I had the money and I blew the money. Yeah, but it didn't really affect me blowing the money. It affected me because I didn't, because back then I got homeless again yeah because once the money ran out, I had to move out of the trailer.
Speaker 4:It's not like I really stayed there too much anyways, because I was always at Alfred's or Mike's or Eddie's. Yeah, we hardly ever stayed there and it's just, it's so hard. You're still feeling that, never want to be loved, so you still have that in your mind. You know, a couple years later I got a sales charge.
Speaker 2:Oh, so you're just selling dope and running the streets. You ain't working jobs and freaking. Okay, all right.
Speaker 4:I was still homeless. I mean, how are you going to go to homeless and getting high all the time to have a job yeah. Yeah, I mean. Nobody telling me what to do I did eventually get a job with, with pops down at the shop, and that was I don't remember.
Speaker 1:I don't remember any of you guys having a job. You, mike, alfred, roger, jason. No, I don't remember any of you guys working no, none of us did no, you did.
Speaker 2:You worked at the shop. I worked at Mason.
Speaker 1:Muffler. Yeah yeah, I remember getting together to get some dope and everybody was pitching in like chore money.
Speaker 2:Like I got $10. Yeah, I got $12. They were like I got $20. I got $200. You know, $10.
Speaker 1:And you know, I got $20, I got $200. I got $10, and I always had a job, so I always had money. You know what I mean. I'd tell Roger, I'm calling with you, dude, if I'm putting in this much money and they're only putting in, I'm going and I remember we'd get God, we'd get a big old thing of crack bro, and I'd tell him break some of us, knowing that I got mine.
Speaker 4:You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Sneaking up in the bathroom when it was all gone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, buddy Jesus.
Speaker 1:That's when mom starts yelling at me. Get out of the bathroom. Call Mike on Fridays. What are we getting today? You know what I mean? I'm getting a fifth of whiskey. We're getting an ounce of weed and we're going to go over here and get some whatever. Yeah.
Speaker 4:God.
Speaker 1:I remember those whiskey days at Canadian Missile. Oh God Makes me throw up just thinking about that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we had gallons, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, jungle juice.
Speaker 5:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Mama and Papa being gone at the casino or the bingo and racing, having jungle juice parties in the backyard.
Speaker 5:Oh yeah.
Speaker 4:But it seems like Wait a minute. I've worked for Bobby Jones's.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, you worked at the auction house Auction.
Speaker 4:Yeah. So I had a job too. Yeah, not very often. I also worked at Whataburger. Yeah, this was before I got the settlement. So, yeah, you know, I really didn't totally surrender until I went to prison my second time yeah, my first time I got arrested for.
Speaker 2:First time you went to prison Was for what? Because you said that you got a sales charge at what? 18?.
Speaker 5:No no.
Speaker 4:No, I didn't get a sales charge until yeah, 98.
Speaker 2:26.
Speaker 4:27 years old. All right, yeah, but I got a possession charge Earlier and then I got a possession charge of marijuana. That's when I was working at the big two Toyota and somebody called the cops on me saying that I'm some big drug lord. He's got large quantities and my little Ford Pinto With rusted floorboards.
Speaker 1:Large quantities and my little Ford Pinto With rusted floorboards.
Speaker 2:You can see the road From the seat, yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:The passenger seat and the driver's seat it was $75. It was $75.
Speaker 4:I bought it from Tommy.
Speaker 1:Blue, blue, blue. And then the other shot had a yellow one.
Speaker 4:Yep, yep, and we had the megaphone sticking out the back. Yep, a 12-inch glass pack and an 18-inch megaphone.
Speaker 1:I didn't have to get out and knock on anybody's door. If you were a friend of mine as a kid, they knew you were coming buddy.
Speaker 4:That's right.
Speaker 1:Sneak you out of the back bit, oh man.
Speaker 4:But anyways, I got arrested for possession Because I didn't have nothing on me. I thought, when they searched my wallet and down inside the credit card, it must've been in there for months, cause I would have smoked it if I, if I knew it was there.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Cause I was out of weed yeah, so I would have. Yeah, little tiny bud that was all smashed.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Smashed like a credit card. I mean it was about this big, but it was about that big around about the size of a dime, yeah, and a cellophane, yeah.
Speaker 5:And I said whoa, what is this? Oh, we got him, we got him I'm like what are you talking about?
Speaker 4:I mean, well, back then there any kind of drugs?
Speaker 5:Yeah, it was a little different.
Speaker 4:They thought oh yes.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:So, yeah, I did some county time on that and then they finally released me. Of course I didn't go to court.
Speaker 2:No, catch me, yeah. So now you got warrants.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I didn't have no residence, so it's not like they.
Speaker 2:They ain't got nowhere to go in the work.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's not like they know, I'm going to go to his house.
Speaker 5:Show up, dude yeah.
Speaker 4:I dare you, yeah, come to Vine Joe's yeah.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And it was at this time I was starting to be, what do you say? Full-blown addict? Yeah, addicted, yeah. All I wanted was to numb to not feel cause you gotta remember. Even though I'm 17, 18 years old, you still feel yeah, that void's still there. Yeah, you still want that love just just to know how it feels yeah is what I was so concerned about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Were there no chicks? Was there never any? A chick dude? Because a lot of guys, man, who are living that life, bro, and don't really get what they need from their families, they go to the chicks, and the chicks you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:They're always got the chicks. You know how it is when you're in that game, though, brother.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Those are not love, those are just, you know, just getting your rocks off Things Dough pours.
Speaker 5:Yeah, all right, all right.
Speaker 4:So it back then. It was just not that you want to have chicks. We didn't focus on that. All we wanted to do was get high have fun.
Speaker 5:Get high, have fun.
Speaker 4:Forget, feel nothing, because I think we all felt in our own ways Me myself. It was abandonment. Yeah, no love.
Speaker 1:Me, life was a lie.
Speaker 4:I can't speak for anybody else.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when I found out my dad was cheating on my mom at 15, life became a lie to me. Everything about my life was a lie and I couldn't handle it. I just didn't want to feel anything. Yeah, hi, yeah.
Speaker 4:Oh, we did.
Speaker 1:That was the first time I started smoking weed. I remember then it was like oh, I don't feel a damn thing right now. And I went to cocaine I was like I really don't feel a damn thing right now yeah, and I went to cocaine.
Speaker 4:I was like I really don't feel a damn thing and I can stay up for days nice. Yeah, I don't ever remember staying up for days on coke. Well, because back then I was already swing. Yeah, I was already.
Speaker 1:I already moved up to the meth I still remember when roger showed up at the shop and he's like I got something. I was like what you got? He's like, oh, that's cheaper, it lasts longer. I was like what do you got? And he had some back then was called glass. I'm like, oh, let's try that. I think swing, I think talking days, baby, baby.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:After that it was on.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it was like six days in a row.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:On one.
Speaker 1:Then my neighbor across the street showed me how to smoke it. Yeah, I remember him. He had a big old glass. You know what we called it back then. But yeah, and cleaning it, throwing it in there, yeah, in there and yeah.
Speaker 4:See, so I didn't get none of the coke or nothing like that. Thank you, jesus, and.
Speaker 1:I went through it all.
Speaker 4:We went from coke to crack, to meth, to glass, to yeah, I guess I went from drinking and weed straight to meth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you found the bikers before we did.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it was not my choice. I don't know. Yeah, but I can't say that they were there. You know what I mean. They helped me. Yeah, man you know what I mean. They helped me. They got me through, because there was times that I didn't like I said, there's many days and nights I've just stayed by myself yeah, could I tell you where? No, I've just stayed by myself. Yeah, could I tell you where? No. Yeah, just crying, just wanting love, some kind of attention. I didn't get that as a child.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no-transcript, because I remember.
Speaker 4:I need to go to the bathroom.
Speaker 1:Do you?
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 1:You want to go pee real quick? Yes, go pee real quick, brother, we'll keep them going.
Speaker 2:Where's?
Speaker 1:the closest.
Speaker 2:Right there, either one of those. Right there, either one of those.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right through there in that door man. Yeah, what do you think about that? So far, wasn't expecting all that were you.
Speaker 2:It makes me think of the kids like orphans and stuff man, they're overseas.
Speaker 1:Think about our friend, the one that we had on a while back, who dealt with that abandonment. Now you see how that's just yeah, man. When you separate a child from its biological mom, there's an instant, this abandonment spirit that's attached to him. Bro, that's just cannot be, it's an orphan spirit.
Speaker 2:That's where you go, right there an orphan spirit. Yeah, man, yeah, yeah yeah I sure hope he feels loved now man I sure hope he feels accepted and apart, because there's a lot of guys that love this dude. There's a lot of people that love this dude, he is loved. Man, if you ever hear him saying, shut up, dude, you are loved. Bro, man, he's loved. God's brought him a long way, dude. Yeah, jesus, yeah, it'll be good when those girls get out here. I can't wait for him to talk about these girls.
Speaker 1:Man, yeah, yeah that'll be good man. I love the dude.
Speaker 2:He's like a brother to me, man yeah, you guys, you were part of god used you as an angel.
Speaker 1:Now you know why me and him are so close. Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I'm sure you gave him clothes, dude. Yeah, yeah, you gave him food, bro. Yeah, all right. So so Up until oh, are you going to ask him?
Speaker 1:You don't want to talk about it, if I remember correctly, and if you don't want to talk about it, please just say so. We don't have to talk about it, but I remember as we got a little older, your mom came back into your life.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, is that something you want to talk about? Are you willing to talk about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, what are you? A teenager or are you in your 20s?
Speaker 1:Well, this is right after 18, 19, 20s, I think right.
Speaker 4:I think it was right around when I got my settlement.
Speaker 2:Oh, so you get kicked out of high school. You get your money Because she lived over there on.
Speaker 4:This was right after, because the last bit of my money I spent, I was just getting to this.
Speaker 1:She had the apartment over there on Hobson, hobson, hobson. Yeah, was it Hobson? I thought it was Hobson. What was the? It was Hobson, that's right, just just south of Broadway.
Speaker 4:Just south of my house.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:North of your house.
Speaker 4:Yes. North yeah Toward Broadway you're correct, yeah north yeah okay, um, at this time we I was partying but we had like three months of like. Eddie said that the party was mostly on him when he was working. Well, the party was mostly on me these three months so I, I kind of funded pretty much yeah everybody yeah, you're the one with the money bud you got the money.
Speaker 4:You're the one with the money, dude so we we're all friends we're all getting high together yeah, yeah, we all yeah we all did that, so right after I got busted I was on the run, so it was really so a possession charge.
Speaker 2:Now you're coming, get me catch me, if you can, for weed.
Speaker 4:Yeah, okay, all right okay, yeah, yeah, knowing that we have quarter ounces in the car but, yeah.
Speaker 2:You want to bust me for a dime, a weed, okay buddy Three hits of weed, knock yourself out.
Speaker 1:I'm scored.
Speaker 4:Good job, buddy. Yeah, okay, when that happened, where was I?
Speaker 2:How did mom, how did?
Speaker 4:All right, so I got the settlement, that's when I bought the michibishi. Yeah, you got your trailer got the trailer and I was in competition with eric because he would go to aunt rosie and get money.
Speaker 1:Oh, he had bank dude.
Speaker 4:A lady had bank, I don't know how he Thousands and thousands, like every other week he was getting a new system. I was like y'all did me again I'll teach you. Let's go get four tens and a little Mitsubishi. And then it was just. Why was I in competition with him? I look back and I'm thinking that was so stupid.
Speaker 1:It was a little weasel.
Speaker 4:It was so stupid, I mean. So what, let him, yeah, let him have the better system. It's not going to make up for his nose, but anyway, that's all I can think of have the better system. It's not going to make up for his nose, that's all I can think of that's all I can think of.
Speaker 1:I got arrested one time trying to pretend I was him because I was drinking and driving. I got pulled over at Skate Land Park a lot. I told them my name was Eric, you know what I mean. I couldn't remember his address, but I knew his phone number. So they called his house and talked to his mom and they were like hey, my son, he got me for giving false information to a cop. Jesus.
Speaker 4:Oh geez, you know, I got away one time when I had to warrant. Should I say this? It doesn't matter? Okay, god is good. Yeah, it is all right. So I I used my biological name one time. Oh gee, it showed up in the computer. Oh really, yeah, oh wow, but it was clean. Yeah, I know that. I know his birthday.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's you bud before the adoption you know the social, you know it all. He's clean as a whistle.
Speaker 4:No, it's different social oh okay, I don't know how they did it, but because of the seven years process that they changed, everything, yeah, okay so I don't know how it was still in the computer that I was a clean whistle. Yeah, and at this time I had a lot of dopamine. Yeah, because now you got to remember I had this, we wasn't doing quarter ounces.
Speaker 2:No, you were pushing pounds, dude Kilos.
Speaker 4:We were doing like 14 ounces.
Speaker 5:Yeah, quarter pounds and stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 4:And by the grace of God I didn't I probably would have got hung with murder, because, having that much, I definitely could have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how did mom come back into your life, like you said? He asked you. There's a time when you're just after high school and she tries to come back in.
Speaker 4:What did that look like? Right at the end of the time that I was With your money?
Speaker 2:Yeah, your settlement, I just remember she, I was With your money.
Speaker 1:Yeah, your settlement, I just remember she had an apartment over there somewhere.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I got her that apartment and. Oh, wow Because. I had the long driveway.
Speaker 2:You got her the apartment, so she ain't really doing the best.
Speaker 4:No, I moved her back here from Kansas which was with she was with her sister in Kansas. Her name is Aunt Janice.
Speaker 2:Wow. So she really connected with you somehow and you guys had a relationship through phone conversations.
Speaker 4:Mom and dad never kept her out of my life.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 4:They never.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 4:They never pushed that issue.
Speaker 2:So whenever she wanted she could call Viola and Joe's and try to talk to you.
Speaker 4:Yeah, whether or not.
Speaker 2:I try to talk to you.
Speaker 4:Yeah, whether or not I talked to her or not, but that door was open for her.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, all right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so at this time I was working at this is right after we got the apartment, me and Flipper.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh Jesus, you were living with uncle Mom's old apartment, mom's old apartmentpper. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh Jesus, you were living with uncle Mom's old apartment, Mom's old apartment yeah, yeah, and I was working at the Mesa Tribune, tiburon yeah. Tiburon Apartments or something.
Speaker 4:Tiburon, tiburon.
Speaker 1:Tiburon yeah.
Speaker 4:And I was working at the Mesa Tribune this was right at the end of my money extension, because I'm almost broke. Gotta get a job yeah yeah, so I started working at the mesa tribune and in the docks just loading all the guys that go around for the paper machines and, uh, deliver papers yeah they don't know what that is anymore, but no, you just get that online now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so when he still loves paper, paper, newspapers, papers well.
Speaker 4:When that, once that started getting I got, I got in Amy. Remember Amy? No, amy, anthony went out with her after I did well, anyways, I wanted to go up to Payson. And when I went up to Payson I told my mom. I said when I get back there's some things that I need answers and there's no going around it I need answers, period. You're not going to get out of this one. And I went up there and I prayed.
Speaker 4:I didn't know how to do it but, like he was saying, I don't have a filter. Most people that know me, I'm just. I don't know how to sugarcoat anything. I just say it. If it hurts your feelings, rub some dirt on it. I had to my whole life. I'm sure a little bit here with me. It's not going to hurt you. I mean, I've been doing it for 50-something years. Get over it. If I can get over it, you can't. So when I told my mom that it was, I wanted to know so many things, all I could think about is those times I sat up there on that roof freezing because I didn't have even a jacket. It still got cold in the middle of the night as a kid and all you have is a long-sleeved T-shirt. It was cold Christmas, christmas was horrible, but anyways, I wanted so many things, so all that started popping up again, so I started writing it down all the things you were going to ask mom when you came back from Beijing.
Speaker 4:I'm going to get it all off my chest. You know where were you when I was. You know why did you do this? Oh, it was nonstop.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you were going to get some answers.
Speaker 4:I wanted closure.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:I didn't want answers, I just wanted closure.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:So I was up there in Payson for three days, I remember I fell in a creek In the snow. I had the shotgun in this hand and the 12-pack in this hand and I just no, I just wanted my truck. Well, it was the Pinto, I just wanted my truck.
Speaker 5:Well, it was the Pinto yeah.
Speaker 4:I just wanted to get warm. It had no warmth because it had holes in the floor. So at this time I was just got through with pacing the three days and I was going back, going back to the apartment that I got her. Okay, needless to say, her mom, louise, lived in the middle apartment. There was three apartments One on the end, the first one, my grandma's, and the one on the end I don't know yeah and then there was three on the other side yeah so when I got back, the owners lived across the street.
Speaker 4:When I got back, the owners knew that I paid everything. I just put it in her name because she said that she was going to take over the bills Once I do the down payment. The first month's rent, all the all the fines all the pain, stuff.
Speaker 4:Yeah. So I did this and I come back my third day and I'm like she. I come back my third day and I'm like she's trying to avoid me. She's not answering the phone, she's not answering the door, her car's in the carport. So I go next door to Grandma's house, ask Grandma. She had nothing nice to say about her. She's been ignoring me this whole time. Wow.
Speaker 4:So I'd go across the street to the owners, managers, whatever and I told them. I said I need you to open the door. They said we can't do that. I was walking back and he was walking with me. I said there's. You know I'm the one that gave you the money. I handed you the money. You know I'm the one that paid for this apartment. Now, can you? I'm not asking to go in and take nothing, I just need to check on something. My mom's not here or her car's here, but my grandma hasn't seen her in two days. So he said no, I can't do that by law. I said, all right, well, by law, I'm letting you know I'm not responsible for your door that's about to get kicked in.
Speaker 4:He says well, I'm not.
Speaker 4:I said well, you don't want to open it, it's going to get opened One way or the other. So I kicked open the door and I fainted hit the floor. I woke up and my mom was getting well. Ella was getting carried out in a black bag. She was dead for two days. All I remember is the bag was all swelled up by her stomach. Black bag she was dead for two days. All I remember is the bag was all swelled up by her stomach. I would guess her stomach was all zipped up. So she overdosed on Percocets and the note said sorry for everything. That was it. That was the whole extents of the note.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:So Damn After this that doesn't hit me that hard.
Speaker 4:I mean I mean it's sad, but it's true. Yeah, that that's not the pain. The pain is when I was at the top of the roof freezing as a little kid, just wanting somebody to love me. That's the pain. Where was she when I needed something like that? It's all I could think about. I wasn't thinking forgiveness, I was thinking why did she do this to me? So one of my, my, all my brothers, my two brothers and my sister, comes over and they wanted to start there.
Speaker 2:I'm still kind of in shock At the time when you kicked open the door, did you see mom?
Speaker 4:No.
Speaker 2:I fainted, oh right away.
Speaker 4:I was still. They dragged me out from in front of the door when they were bringing her out. I was still on the floor in the dirt. The door got open. I guess the old man said, as soon as that door opened, I hit the ground. Wow, wow, dude. Old man said, as soon as that door opened, I hit the ground. Wow, wow, dude. So I really didn't see anything, to be honest with you. Yeah, wow, I just it just hit me. So after that my brothers and sister, they all come and they started going through the house. Brothers and sister, they all come and they started going through the house. Each one of them had a corner that they were just taking mom's stuff. Yeah, you know, at this time I bought mom Ella a TV, I bought her a stereo.
Speaker 2:You know I bought her stuff to get in the. Did she struggle with addiction her whole life?
Speaker 4:Oh, yeah, yeah okay, she was a barfly, from what I've heard, all right, and it wasn't too long after that. I just I've kind of tried to close that yeah but in all reality you never get closure. You still have your guard up yeah all this time. So it was maybe that's why I have so few friends all this time.
Speaker 1:So it was. Maybe that's why I have so few friends. Yeah, it's hard to let people close, brother, when you're always experiencing letdown and disappointment and hurt from people, why would you let somebody close when they can hurt you?
Speaker 2:For the love you gotta let people in.
Speaker 3:But at this point, at this point I get all that.
Speaker 4:But but now I'm beyond love. I mean that's, I wasn't searching for that at this time, I was just wanted some answers. I just wanted some answers closure still struggling with addiction. I was just Wanted some answers. I just wanted some answers. Closure Still struggling with addiction, because I'm still full blown. Yeah, you're going off. You don't seem to understand that we didn't have a break unless we got locked up.
Speaker 1:What was our motto, brother? What did we always tell each other? Break when I die, all the sleep we need when we're dead we're not going to live until we're 30, might as well live it up some of us said 30.
Speaker 4:I think I said 28. That's when I went to prison.
Speaker 1:I don't think people understand. There was probably a good dozen of us that were just full on off an addiction together, but we wasn't out robbing people.
Speaker 4:I was. No, we wasn't, I was. We robbed a couple of houses, but I mean, it's not like we were out doing it.
Speaker 1:I was not kicking in doors and shoving guns in people's faces, but I would break into homes and stuff. That was when I was younger, not so much when I was an adult, though.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I could always go back and get a job with Dad, even though I was messed up.
Speaker 2:So up until this point, Bart, it's just craziness, man, just chaos. So you get in trouble and you get locked up and go to prison. What's your first prison experience like when you're 26, 27 years old? Scared yeah that's real there, buddy.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I was scared shitless the first time I went in Because you've got to remember, I've never been a big guy.
Speaker 2:Little guy. And then you're white, with the last name Hernandez. Oh, that's going to be fun, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:That's going to be a real treat there bud?
Speaker 2:Are you white or Mexican dude? Who are?
Speaker 4:you running with yeah, oh God. And the crazy part about it is I knew the LML, yeah, the. Lml and the white boys all in the same yard.
Speaker 1:So I mean they were like who are you running with? You know what I mean.
Speaker 4:You going to run with us Because you can. Or are you going to run with them? Yeah, and it's just all I know is that I can't really get beyond that. No love.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:I think that's what hurt the most throughout my whole life.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Up until my second bid. Yeah, because you got to remember, I did dope from 17 to 2009.
Speaker 1:17 years, something like that.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:I did it every day and Do. I wish I could go back and change things. Yeah, yeah, but the past is the past. For a reason Am I grateful for that second bid.
Speaker 1:You had something good happen to you before that, though what Around 2002, you had something really good happen to you, steven.
Speaker 4:Oh, yeah, yeah, 2002. Yeah, had my son.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, 2002, yeah, and my son yeah it's crazy because Andrea and uh Steven's mom were pregnant right around the same time, because they're only what about the part maybe mhm when's Steven September? Yeah, not the part, maybe, mm-hmm. When's Stephen September? Yeah, kind of.
Speaker 4:June, oh June.
Speaker 1:Yeah, only a couple days apart then.
Speaker 4:June 22nd.
Speaker 1:Yeah, kind of June 19th 6-22-02. Yeah, 6-19-02.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So had that, had him, and it was just such a blessing then I'm starting to get into trying to do the steel structural yeah I was working at chef steel at the time. That's right there. It's not there, no more.
Speaker 1:On Cooper.
Speaker 4:On Cooper and.
Speaker 1:Guadalupe.
Speaker 4:Right across the street from the Christian bookstore.
Speaker 2:Now it's a pick apart.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I was in the bathroom. What was your first prison sentence? How long was your time?
Speaker 4:I think a year, a year okay, nine months Okay.
Speaker 2:So, but did you get out? And from what I'm hearing, yeah, your son Stephen. So there was a girl. You get out and you're like trying to build a better life.
Speaker 4:I was trying to, I was still a pro.
Speaker 5:Okay.
Speaker 4:Okay, I got off. I already did.
Speaker 2:Between those two, the first sentence and the second my second sentence. You killed your time or you killed your number.
Speaker 4:I got out on paper I I did uh two years on the, the one before steven was born. I did two years and then I got out and, uh, I had five years intense probation. Oh jesus, dude, on top of my two years, that was to sit my first sales charge wow, dude, very few make it through that I did it wow bro, my mom had intense probation. She did it too yeah, it's a lot of hard work a lot of hard work to this day, I still talk to my surveillance officer. Wow.
Speaker 5:That's crazy yeah.
Speaker 4:Do you know that she was my sponsor when I was doing the 12 steps?
Speaker 2:Wow, dude, Wow bro.
Speaker 4:That's how serious I was, wow, yeah. What more to call me on my stuff than somebody that had a job of watching me 24-7.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's good dude.
Speaker 4:For five years she knew me. Yeah, bless her heart. Gina Green Shout out. It's been when I got out that last time this last time no, the second time okay when I had Steven, I thought for sure, and it all went south what made it go south?
Speaker 2:because I was locked up already, so I don't know oh, this is when me and mom freaking oh, dude, I was I started doing dope, yeah again, yeah on, because I was working third shift at chef steel.
Speaker 1:Yeah and that's one time he was living over there on 10th ave or whatever in the circle circle In the circle, the little hole, frasier circle, cul-de-sac.
Speaker 4:Yeah and yeah.
Speaker 2:That's where we'd go, yeah.
Speaker 4:And.
Speaker 2:Me and mom started picking up from you.
Speaker 4:And when I got out for having my son, he they let me have three weeks, or something like that yeah maternity leave oh, from prison, wow no, oh from work yeah, okay and I was already on probation for my second sales or my first sales charge, and when I did, I started using just little. Yeah, not a lot, not like I can control it yeah, I got this. I'm only going to use it just to get up to get to work.
Speaker 1:You know, I mean yeah and then before you know or you need. You need to get to work, yeah, and I need to get it through work. I just needed it, just to get to work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I needed to get it through work.
Speaker 4:I just needed it just to get to work, and I did that for like two months Just to get to work, and then when I started getting to where I was into work, I was exhausted. Steven's keeping me awake, awake, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, buddy.
Speaker 4:Being dad, yeah, the lies.
Speaker 2:We tell Just a little bit.
Speaker 4:Third Having to go in at 10 o'clock to Work all night. It was, yeah, not the hours that I would ever Want to choose again. No, I wouldn't. Well, so you talked Work all night yeah, not the hours that I would ever want to choose again?
Speaker 2:No, I wouldn't. Well, so you talked. I heard you say earlier about your second prison. Sense was really where you encountered God.
Speaker 4:My second yes. The last one, but my third one.
Speaker 2:Oh, the last one, okay.
Speaker 4:My third is the one that I really full-blown surrendered us guys from mesa.
Speaker 1:We don't learn easy, bro. It takes two, three, four times, four times for you, three times for him they broke me off that last time.
Speaker 4:It wasn't probation that they were giving me the flat time they were. Yeah, they hit me with seven flat. Yeah, yeah, so that was. Was I nervous about that? Hell yeah yeah and then, but as soon as I got to the yard hello somebody there's my brother in the same building. Yeah, yeah, that's God right there. Yeah, but I need to go back to that sentencing. Okay, I signed a plea for an they call it an open plea Pretty much a range of anything to this. Minimum to the max.
Speaker 4:And my lawyer told me that I was only going to get two years with the probation term because I've already completed successfully completed the IPS. Yeah, so I'm eligible, so it looks good. Yeah, I did so good on it, so I'm thinking, you know, that's not bad. Yeah, up to seven flat. Well, when I got to the court I want to back up the night before, because that's a major one the night before sentencing I was at Towers Upstairs think room. I can't remember, I know it was Tower 3. And it was. I prayed all night. I prayed all night. It was the first time that I've ever heard God talk to me, you know what he?
Speaker 4:said to me the only thing I heard I'm not going to give you nothing you can't handle. Amen.
Speaker 5:That was it, amen.
Speaker 2:That's what you needed to know, bud, because they were getting ready to give you no I needed to know more, because this was an open plea they were getting ready to give you seven years tomorrow. You needed to know that, whatever was coming, I can get through this yeah, okay.
Speaker 4:So I got. I was in, sensing everybody in that's been sentenced and knows how fun that is. Oh, yeah, and great anticipation. Yeah, your ankles are killing you. You're just tired because you ain't slept.
Speaker 1:Ready to get to the yard just so you can get a cigarette?
Speaker 4:Yeah, let's get over with this.
Speaker 4:So the judge told me so you're here for a sentencing. I said yes, ma'am, she goes. You know what you signed for, right? I said yeah, openly, she goes. No, you signed for seven. Oh Jesus, I said no, I didn't, quick. No, I did not. Your Honor, you're completely misinformed. I said this gentleman told me I have an open plea from anywhere from released on probation to seven flat she goes. Is that true? And he was sitting there looking through, trying to go through his papers. I said no, it's true. I'm here to tell you that it's what he told me, that it would be very, since I've completed the IPS before, it would be very odd if you was to sentence me to seven flat she goes. No, you're wrong, she goes. You signed a plea for seven flat. I said no, your honor. I said no, I pulled up because I had my paper, because you always take your papers when you go to court.
Speaker 4:Everybody wants to know what.
Speaker 2:Where are your papers?
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I got my papers, I pulled it out, I said look your honor, and I give it to the cop because you're not allowed to walk.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I wasn't going to give it to this dude that's been lying to me the whole time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, damn.
Speaker 4:I give it to them and she goes yes, you have every possible, you have every right to pull this plea. And I look back, it was my mom and dad behind me, mom on oxygen not doing good. I turned around and I told her all I could think about is what God told me.
Speaker 1:God ain't going to do nothing.
Speaker 4:You ain't going to get nothing that you can't handle, damn bro. And I kept playing that in my head, it's going through my mind, it's going through my mind. So I'm thinking this lady's and I told her straight out. Like I said before, I don't have a filter, I don't, I just say it. So I told her. I said your, may I say something to you? She goes Absolutely. You got the floor. I said your Honor.
Speaker 4:I said, after showing you my paperwork, that I have, and after seeing the paperwork that you have, that I have, and after seeing the paperwork that you have.
Speaker 4:I said there's nobody in this room right now that has the right To sentence me to whatever you feel Is right. I said your honor, I trust in you and I trust in the Lord, but I can't put these people through this again, because my mom stood up and she taught for me on oxygen. They had to take the microphone over to her Because you got to remember, the only reason why I started selling again this last time was to save their house.
Speaker 2:Damn, bro, really yeah. Wow bro, really yeah.
Speaker 4:Wow, man, because at this, time I was already working at Milling.
Speaker 2:But it wasn't back taxes or something.
Speaker 4:They took a balloon loan out on their house for my dad's quadruple bypass Dang For his heart surgery, and it was due. My mom told me three weeks before they're getting evicted.
Speaker 2:You're like I ain't letting you get evicted out of your house. Mom, I got this. Go back to doing what you know how to do so you can make some money real quick.
Speaker 4:I said, Mom, the only way I know how to do this is try to come up with 14 grand is to sell dope.
Speaker 2:Sell dope in three weeks. Man yeah, Holy crap.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And once you're in. So you were able to get the $14,000 and pay for it.
Speaker 4:I did my last transaction, I would have had enough to carry the whole thing. The taxes, the lawyers, all that it was a total of $16,700 and something.
Speaker 2:You had it, you were there.
Speaker 4:I had enough stuff to sell. To get to that, I already had it spoken for, I just needed.
Speaker 2:To sell it and get the money.
Speaker 4:I was driving home from La Mesa Village. That's where my I did. I hooked up and I was driving down 8th Ave, right past my mom's house, and I turned. I passed horn, turned on right in front of Vicks. Bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop. Sure enough, uhop, bloop, sure enough he got me. I had a bunch of this citric acid. Why are you looking at me crazy? Citric acid looks just like methamphetamines. Yeah, I never cut my stuff. That was for my son's hydrogen rocket. You make hydrogen. You use citric acid for your hydrogen rockets to shoot them up in the air. So they're parachutes. Yeah, that's what I had it for, but they thought they hit the mother load, not knowing I have the mother load in my pants Because I did. I had a pair of Oakley sunglasses the cloth cases that they come in my bag, tied to my button of my pants.
Speaker 4:I had it wrapped around there and I just had it hanging there.
Speaker 2:Old prison style. Bud.
Speaker 4:So I got arrested and they were. They found a little bit and a pipe on me in my pocket, yeah, but they didn't get the no, what I just picked up. But I didn't trust nobody there it is buddy. I didn't have nobody that I could say hold on to this 14,000. So I cut a hole in the frame of that blazer. I made it safe when I lost that blazer because it got impounded Damn all the money was in the frame.
Speaker 2:Oh, I had so much in that truck. Oh man, wow bro.
Speaker 4:You know I couldn't call nobody to go pay that $400. $400 after a week? Yeah, I couldn't get nobody Dang To get it out. Dang, and I told them you get the truck out, I will pay you double of whatever you pay. Yeah, the minute you get it to your house, nobody would do it. Dang Couldn't ask my parents, because all they're doing is trying to find a place to live yeah at 78 years old.
Speaker 4:Hey, you know what I mean. Yeah, and we've lived in this house our whole lives, so we have a lot of stuff we have separate rooms with nothing but glassware To the roof, and I'm not kidding.
Speaker 4:Remember our TR room? Yeah, we had from vases to little shot glasses to clocks, yeah, all the expensive glassware. So they were struggling. I couldn't call them. I wanted to. I told them, but they said all their money's going for they're moving to a trailer. They found, yeah, so I lost it all. I mean jewelry, all kinds of which. That isn't. That isn't what's the most important. What most important is when the Lord told me that he's not going to give me nothing I can't handle. And you have to remember, I've been in prison twice before Minimum camps Chuck E Cheese yeah, fort Grant, I mean E Cheese, yeah, fort Grant, I mean Safford, yeah. And what was the other one? Globe, yeah, kitty camps.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Seven years. You're getting some hard time, bud, You're going with the big boys.
Speaker 4:That's right, yeah, so where did I go? Bach guy, stick them steiner bach guy, and it was the hell.
Speaker 2:But as soon as I got there, you get a lot of people with no work man.
Speaker 1:That's what happens you got 1500 inmates, nothing to do?
Speaker 2:they're gonna get high and they're gonna run up debts and they're gonna hurt each other. I and they're going to hurt each other.
Speaker 4:I got there and I had Eddie.
Speaker 2:What year did you show up there?
Speaker 1:2008.
Speaker 2:2008.
Speaker 1:No 2009.
Speaker 4:2009. 2009. I wasn't there a month and I was getting well. They were trying to say that I was, that they were trying to call the CO3, which is the case manager, like a counselor, but there everything is such a disarray.
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course bro.
Speaker 4:Yeah, even the workers. I mean the prison completely is it's a dump, is a joke, yeah, so my mom's been dead for two days and they're calling to the prison, calling to the prison, calling to the prison, finally, the prison calling to the prison. Finally, I had one of my cousins. Terry was here from New Mexico. I guess they called Tommy's, called down there and everything. I guess it was between them both. I guess it was between them both. Tommy and Terry kept calling and then they finally got a hold of a CO3, and I had to call them, and that's when they told me that mom died.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that was rough, even though I wasn't the closest to her because I had a lot of resentments bro A lot of resentments.
Speaker 1:She was hard on you brother, Kicking him out.
Speaker 4:She was doing it all by herself.
Speaker 1:I get that.
Speaker 4:Do I blame her? I don't blame her.
Speaker 2:You were a knucklehead kid man, a boy like you said. Dude, I was an addict.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you this Looking back, I want you to notice how God told you he couldn't give you nothing you couldn't handle. He wasn't just talking about the seven years, that's right.
Speaker 2:He knew he had to get you in there because your mom was getting ready to die because if you were out here, oh god, you would have went off the deep end, bro, and that would have happened. You really would have went off the deep end who knows what would have really happened.
Speaker 1:You know I.
Speaker 4:I don't, I haven't thought that far.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have. God was protecting you bud.
Speaker 4:Because at this point in time I was when I was selling drugs I was, I was not. All I wanted was to make money. I wasn't doing it to get high. I wasn't doing it to get high, I wasn't doing it to make friends. At this point in time, all I did is work, go home and work. All I was trying to do, not thinking, you've got to remember, I'm an addict. So I never had anybody. I've had this job for, you know, four years. Hey, dusty, I'm in this predicament, you know. Is there some advice that you might be able to give me? Yeah, no, addict, think I went straight to dope.
Speaker 5:Yep, I don't want to do.
Speaker 4:The only way I know how to get that much dope or that much money is to get dope yeah. You only know what you know, not thinking I could. He could assign me for a loan or something. Yeah To, just to save my parents house. Yeah To, just to save my parents' house. Yeah, but anyways, during this prison time we've been locked down a lot short staff, 16 deaths stick them steiner bud in the year that I was there. Yeah, and then we get moved to kingman oh geez, the private hospital Paradise. Oh, but that's where they escaped Hell yeah, oh man.
Speaker 4:That's where the riots were, and that's where the National Guard came in. The National Guard didn't enter that yard until we let them yeah. They were trying to do everything from outside and we were just throwing the tear gas back at them yeah you were on the yard yeah oh, wow yeah, before you're gonna be in a clubhouse, yeah so what?
Speaker 1:so what happened was in kingman. Kingman had one facility right and it had three separate yards. Uh, I think that's wallop high. Two of them were three yards, one was a two yard, but they had just opened up a two yard across the street and so when I got moved there, sean had already got moved to the two, to the new two yard. I was on the three yard, so when the riot happened, he, they got a bunch of them guys got moved back over to where we were. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:I remember seeing them walking by the fence. Hey bro, what's up bro?
Speaker 4:Only time in Arizona history that there was an all-white yard.
Speaker 5:Yeah, wow yeah.
Speaker 4:Only time All-white boys, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Girl calling you. Bella that's what I want to get into.
Speaker 2:I want to get into these girls, bro. I know.
Speaker 1:I know one thing at a time when we were in prison we were doing bible studies and stuff yes, that yard, that yard, uh, it was a lot of got a lot of good people there.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean a lot of drug addicts I mean, but but that's prison. That's on every yard. Yeah, but they really didn't judge me because back to go into that that night, that if he gets me, through this. I'll never let him down. I'll never stop giving him glory. All the praise goes to him. So I didn't they all say you're going to be, you're going to forget it.
Speaker 5:You're going to leave it at the gate as soon as you get out.
Speaker 4:Yeah, okay, jesus.
Speaker 1:It's a real thing, man, it's no joke.
Speaker 4:I would say 96% of the people yeah they forget it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they might as well just leave the whole bible well, for a lot of them, it's a way to escape, escape to get through their time protected because I'm just I'm trying to find jesus, so I can just sit over here and not be a part of nothing and get involved and but the minute they leave the gate it's like later Jesus.
Speaker 4:Absolutely yeah. So I didn't and Eddie got out like two. What, two years before me, 2010.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Four years. Yeah, Like what? Two years before me?
Speaker 4:2010. Yeah, four years, yeah, so I got out in 2015.
Speaker 1:2015,.
Speaker 4:February 15th. I got out the day before Thanksgiving 2010. Amen, yeah, so while I was in there, February 15th 2015. Yeah, so, while I, was in there February 15, 2015. Yeah, so let's back up a little bit. While I was in there, I was. I went to the chapel and the chapels are huge. Our chapel at Surbats the size of our whole auditorium. Wow.
Speaker 2:Beautiful.
Speaker 4:It's just concrete floor. Yeah, yeah, it's a big room, little office like that over there for the chapel yeah. And we had a wall in the middle of it. This side was worship and that side was just. I don't know what they ever use that for. Yeah, oh uh, crs cr meetings inside. Let's go. So I we used to do crs but I used to read on that side because I set up a table off in the corner. Because my learning disability is, I had to have quiet.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And I had to be able to read something over and over to try to comprehend it.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:My comprehension skills is not the greatest.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:To this day is.
Speaker 2:You suffered a TBI, my friend.
Speaker 4:So when I did this, it was such a blessing because I kept on, I kept on. There was this lady that I had, an inmate that was in the Towers Jail with me. His name is Travis. I call him my little bro. He looked as white as me, good Mexican last name, but he ran with the Chicanos.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:So but he was still my little bro and he was looking at a lot of time and he was searching. So I was talking to him about the Bible and stuff. His mom kept in touch with me the whole time and she would help me. You know a little. I never asked the whole time she would help me. You know a little. I never asked Okay, when my brother did time, my mom and dad got to go to them every other week. They were going to visit them, him taking the money. I never got that. I got a birthday card or a Christmas card twice in the 12 years I was in. I got money twice $10 and $15. Did I have a resentment towards Tommy? Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 4:It's like I did everything to try to help you guys and all I could remember is him stealing mom's pills and I get to blame.
Speaker 2:Oh well, I mean, it is what it is. At the very end, at the very beginning, you did say that Tommy was Joe and Viola's actual son Viola's he was their son yeah, so definitely treated different.
Speaker 4:But everybody says that I was the one that was so favored because I was the youngest.
Speaker 5:I don't you don't see it, I'll see how, and nobody's ever gotten me a lawyer.
Speaker 4:Yeah, how many times did you get a lawyer, tommy? Yeah, yeah, an actual lawyer to help fight the case, you know, I could have been out of luck, right.
Speaker 5:Yeah, buddy.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:God knew you could handle it, bud man yeah you had to hear that.
Speaker 4:But see, the thing of it is, once I got out and I did that, all I could keep thinking is I'm not dropping this, I'm not dropping this sword for nothing.
Speaker 2:And that was 2015. I was in California. You were here, yeah, terrence was here, yeah.
Speaker 4:You know, when I first got out, everything I owned was in a property box, In a box bud.
Speaker 2:I've been there Carrying it out Yep.
Speaker 4:A property box.
Speaker 5:Amen.
Speaker 4:You know, when I went in I had from motorcycles to crotch rockets, to every playstation game and system but I was just dealer's jacket every PlayStation game and system.
Speaker 2:But I was just Stealer's jacket. No, he didn't have that we did, but I had. I love you bro.
Speaker 4:But I had several.
Speaker 2:Stealer's jackets. I know, just giving you a hard time. I had a.
Speaker 4:Super Bowl Stealer's jacket. It's from the game.
Speaker 1:I can tell you who we bought it from.
Speaker 2:I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding, bro.
Speaker 1:Let it go. Yeah, forgiveness, forgiveness, grace and mercy. What was that?
Speaker 2:Let it go, Let it go. Oh, we're not doing Disney songs bud.
Speaker 4:That's Frozen. You knew the name of the movie. I love you bro.
Speaker 2:I got two girls I know I can't wait to get into this. This is where it gets good.
Speaker 4:It's coming up yeah.
Speaker 2:This is where it gets good guys. This is where all the glory, and you've kept doing it since 2015.
Speaker 1:So you get out and you go to a halfway house.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I get out. God, I remember that.
Speaker 4:No no.
Speaker 2:All right.
Speaker 4:I get out in my first day. Okay, I got out on Country Club right in front of the Sun Splash At the bus stop. Bus station.
Speaker 1:Greyhound bus station.
Speaker 4:Yes, sir, yep.
Speaker 2:Right where all the dope is. Yep.
Speaker 1:Jesus stop bus station. Greyhound bus station. Yes sir, yeah, right where all the dope is. Yeah, jesus, right, right, right where they drop all the inmates off that don't have nobody to pick them up.
Speaker 4:Yeah well, I walked god dang all the way to jerry's house jerry higgins isle oh yeah, good place to I had him.
Speaker 5:He's covering me. You know what I mean? Yeah, all.
Speaker 4:I did was go in there and sleep, yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh wow, so it was not a good place when you were going to no no, no, no, no, oh damn no. Sean no, okay, so what? But you needed a place to sleep. So you get out of prison, that's all.
Speaker 4:I know my mom and dad died yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like where am I gonna go? What am I gonna do? I?
Speaker 1:gotta go. Jerry forgot to mention his dad passed away too. I did that seven years.
Speaker 4:Mom and dad are both gone oh, he gets out yeah yeah, they both, they both passed yeah, yeah I did skip over that. Yeah, but it was. It was tough because I lost them both and I was in there. Yeah, because I was only trying to help.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Were you able to come out for mom's thing? No, no, they didn't. Were you able to come out for dad's? No, brother, no, okay, I lost All right. Well, sometimes I know that they do let you out to go to a family's thing.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you're going to pay for it.
Speaker 2:I know it's a lot, yeah, and you got to have supervision and all that crap. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and especially I don't think on Steiner, that they would allow you to Because you're a higher risk. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You were a three yard. Yeah, all right.
Speaker 4:So I don't think that I would have been able to get out, and Dad passed away in Albuquerque because he had to go to his sister's, because Tommy wasn't helping here. Oh well, and he started getting dementia and he needed some care. Damn Tommy, and I wasn't there, so I mean.
Speaker 2:Dad had to go where dad could yeah.
Speaker 1:Sweaty palms, jesus, mom's spaghetti.
Speaker 4:It hurts.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's real bud.
Speaker 4:You're literally pouring out your heart right now, dude and you're sharing your soul with us, man but once I got out, my first night was at a dope house I do not recommend doing that.
Speaker 2:You get out of prison.
Speaker 1:Don't go to the dope house but, and that's the only place you got to go, got to go, man, damn dude I'm not giving any recommendations on any of my life.
Speaker 4:Don't, don't try it. Y'all hurt yourself. Yeah, um, it gets better, I promise. Yeah, it gets a lot better. So I went to this halfway house the next morning I only stayed one night there and I told the lady at the halfway house you're talking about no, I told the lady at the dope house that I was only going to stay one night and I was going to a halfway house. Do what you got to do, proud of you.
Speaker 1:Mom, was it mom yeah?
Speaker 4:Yeah, jerry's mom.
Speaker 5:Yeah, mom yeah.
Speaker 4:Bless her heart, millie.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:She's a good woman Good godly woman, yeah, and she was. She's a good woman Good godly woman, yeah.
Speaker 2:And she was. People think that addicts and people in the life and just around. She wasn't an addict, brother I know, but there are still good people out there.
Speaker 4:No, she was a very godly woman. She was just blind to A lot Everything.
Speaker 5:A lot.
Speaker 4:Anyways.
Speaker 1:God bless her.
Speaker 4:Yes, god bless her. God bless Mike, mike's mom, yeah, your mom.
Speaker 5:Yeah, Love you Graham.
Speaker 4:Ellen.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Neighborhood moms man.
Speaker 4:I got to a lot with them, yeah, women.
Speaker 2:Remember that apartment that we got when I came back from California. We were living in that little square apartment with that old lady and all those old ladies in there would feed you, All those ladies in there loved you.
Speaker 2:He still goes and visits her, although there was like, there was like well, I'm not talking about her, but there was a lot of Mexican ladies who would feed you and invite you over. Those ladies loved you, bro. God has always put people in your life, sean, to give you what, to give you what you needed. Really, bro, I, really bro, I'm listening.
Speaker 4:I always treated him, yeah, with respect. That's good.
Speaker 1:He always made sure Nobody came in. You know what I mean. He looked out for those ladies, man yeah.
Speaker 4:That's good, but those apartments I ran people off Several times.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:But I'm, we're getting ahead.
Speaker 1:Halfway house.
Speaker 4:Yeah, gary Gaston, right behind Circle K or QT on Broadway. No, I'm, we're getting ahead Halfway house.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Gary Gaston, Right behind Circle K or QT on Broadway.
Speaker 4:No, I was. I was on Broadway.
Speaker 1:It was right across from the school.
Speaker 4:Right across the street from Mace Jr. Yeah, it used to be a nursery right next to the gun store.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Was our halfway house. That's where. Yeah, when I got, when I got with you.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah Was our happy house. That's where, yeah, when I got with you.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah, gary Gaston's house.
Speaker 4:Yeah, bless his heart, dude. Thank you for helping me, brother. You helped a lot of people. Yeah, he's in the recovery. I stayed there for a year and I was working at Abel Steel. Yep, you know how far Abel Steel? Yep, you know how far Abel Steel is from there. This was on Greenfield, and Brown, horn and Broadway.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's the 202 in Greenfield. Yep, was Abel Steel. You rode that bike, dude. I've walked it the first four days, yeah, back and forth After 12-hour days, yeah, and going to meetings, yeah. So all these addicts that are out there saying that they can't do it.
Speaker 1:Making excuses.
Speaker 4:I'm here to tell you just do it. Oh, poor me's are out the window. Yeah, Dust yourself off.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how bad you want it.
Speaker 2:How bad you want it.
Speaker 4:That dictates how bad you want it, how bad you want it.
Speaker 2:That dictates how bad you want it, how bad you want it.
Speaker 4:If you don't want it that bad, you ain't going to do it that bad, that's right.
Speaker 2:I'm just thinking about when we used to get high. How bad did you?
Speaker 1:want it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how far would you go? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Remember when I told you, when we started going to church together Mm-hmm, I, I'm gonna show you how to walk this thing out. Brother, start picking you up, taking you to church with me on sundays. We travel around, go to different churches.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember picking them up at that halfway house and taking you to fire and water on a saturday night. Yeah, we picked you up and you rode with us out there and that's your guys, yeah, bro, yeah yeah, rudy, rudy, rudy yeah
Speaker 5:man and Valenzuela, yeah, and.
Speaker 4:Proclaim yeah, yeah, yeah, hey, we. But I just need to know, I just need people to know that, just because I've talked about the past, the best is coming yeah, I didn't have the best life. I stay in touch is coming. I got out and I was riding my bike to Abelsteel doing what I needed to do. So all these guys that are saying oh, it's too hot and this, and that it's all based on how bad you want- it Yep.
Speaker 4:You want to hand out? Yeah, probably in the wrong it Yep. You want a handout? Yeah, probably in the wrong spot Yep. But we started going to churches. Like Eddie said, I met Pastor Tom Thank you, tom and the first time I talked to Pastor Dave was in this room.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:It was a small group.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:It was real small. Yeah, it was us three.
Speaker 2:Oh, I was like wow, Wow, guys.
Speaker 4:That was the first time I ever talked to him. It was about right here, exactly, yeah, but the table was this way, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think we had a couple of these six foot tables out, yeah there was two, one over there and one over here.
Speaker 4:It was going this way yeah. And that was a time that I felt like I wasn't judged.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:At a church.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:When I got out, when I was in that halfway house, I was still reading, trying to read. It's hard to read in a halfway house and I looked for a church. I rode my bike all the way to Central Christian. I rode my bike all the way to Central Christian and, of course, I parked my bike down the way because I didn't want people judging me. You know what.
Speaker 1:I mean.
Speaker 4:I'm too prideful.
Speaker 1:Them damn Christians, they'll judge you, buddy.
Speaker 4:Hey, I'll tell you what I got there. They will too, and I stood in front of that thing. I gotta remind I I don't have a lot of fancy clothes. I don't, yeah, I don't. I don't have any to this day.
Speaker 1:I don't probably feel awkward wearing them anyways, oh yeah, I don't need him.
Speaker 4:If you don't like me, for me then I don't need you in my life so. I went to Central Christian Church and I stood out there because I was, needless to say, I'm always early always. I was there 20 minutes early and he ain't kidding and I sat out there, not one person. I was there 20 minutes early, and he ain't kidding and I sat out there. Not one person spoke to me.
Speaker 4:I even I stood out there until it was like five minutes till, and then I stood into the middle, the entryway before they go to the yeah, auditorium, yeah, yeah. And I stood there and all I could think of was the times that we were there for Sharon's. Yeah, wasn't that Sharon's church? Didn't we go to Chris and Sharon?
Speaker 1:I don't remember that.
Speaker 4:I was locked up Her that I was locked up Her funeral.
Speaker 1:I was locked up for that buddy.
Speaker 4:I think it was that church, but anyways, that's all I could think of is this church. And then nobody said anything to me at that church. Yeah, not, hi, not welcome, this is your first time. Nothing. They all started walking in. I'm still standing in the middle, in the middle of it. Yeah, I turned around, walked out. This ain't for me, I'm out. That's why I think I told Eddie about this. Yep, he says I'll come get you. And that's when he came here and he met up with Pastor Tom and yeah, it's just pretty much. Then we went to.
Speaker 1:You know, walk through these doors without somebody saying hi to you.
Speaker 2:No, no, you didn't get out of your car. Get up to the building without somebody saying hi.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, they were out there hugging me in the parking lot.
Speaker 1:Come on, buddy. And shout out to Life. Link out there, man.
Speaker 2:We love you, Link Crew. Keep doing what you're doing.
Speaker 1:Greeters, edgar and all of Veronica man, everybody here has shown me love.
Speaker 4:I haven't felt judged.
Speaker 2:That's right, buddy. This is what I wanted to hear.
Speaker 4:But that's not it. That's not the. Yeah, that's a good part, but there's more. Then we get sidetracked and we start thinking hold on a second.
Speaker 1:Okay, don't get ahead of, don't get ahead of yourself. Well there was another life group we were in.
Speaker 4:Which one? Uh huh Life Men's.
Speaker 3:Yeah, coffee rush life men's yeah, coffee rush. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know all that yeah
Speaker 1:you got to share it with the people so they can know it too oh life groups, man will change your life that's where we, that's where we found some brothers, that's where we found some men we could talk to and and be open with don don stevens, don brown wow, that's where Don came in, that's where we met.
Speaker 5:We've still got Don Don literally shares us.
Speaker 1:That's where we met Terrence. That's where we met Nico. Wow, that's where we met Sean.
Speaker 4:Little Sean, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:That's justice now, just so you know who. That's justice now, just so you know.
Speaker 2:We've got a testimony. You can go back and listen to bro her testimonies on our website. Oh my god, dude, her name's justice okay, yeah, yeah go listen to that one.
Speaker 1:Whoo jesus, all right yeah, amen broad is good dude, he, he's a miracle working business.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, love you, sis.
Speaker 1:Well, from what I remember, brother, that was probably one of the life groups that I think I've seen you grow the most was in that time, right there, when we were in that life group. As far as spiritually and being godly, I think that group is the one I've seen you grow the most in.
Speaker 4:Okay.
Speaker 1:From my perspective anyways.
Speaker 4:Absolutely yeah, I was going to say that yeah.
Speaker 1:I can't speak for you, but from my perspective I've seen you grow and leave some balance in that group. I did grow Hands down, I did prosper in that life group Because you were coming out of prison and the lifestyle I was, and that was the first really group that you had of godly men that you were kind of associating with and learning Could speak.
Speaker 4:Yes, yes yes, because don't get it twisted, and there is, if you speak on something, it's never kept to those people, it's the yard's going to know within an hour. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And they think women gossip. Holy crap.
Speaker 4:You ain't seen a two yard.
Speaker 1:Get on a men's prison, holy smokes.
Speaker 4:I can tell you that there were like six buildings on each side of the yard in Surbat, 12,000 inmates on each yard. That's 4,000 inmates amongst Surbat. Both yards can know something within hours, oh yeah buddy yeah. But I want to go back and I want to talk about how we got kind of into our heads this was right about the time that you was coming back from California. We went and got you.
Speaker 2:That was not a good time at all.
Speaker 4:And we thought that we were going to time at all and we thought that we were going to, we wasn't getting fed here or enough something, and we were thinking that we're going to spread our wings and experience, because that's when we were going to proclaim and fire and water and we were looking at all these other churches and that's when I I thought I got involved in in, uh, restoration church oh wow, with that pastor pastor ivan pastor ivan and I something happened before that too, though that you didn't mention. What.
Speaker 1:When you lost a job at Abel Steel.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, all right, so I skip a few things.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Well, okay.
Speaker 1:I want people to see how God really showed up for you in this time in your life.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, Thank you Like never before. Yeah, this time in your life. Oh yeah, thank you like like like never before. Yeah, it's all right. When I was at able, I, I, I gradually for people that I worked there for two years for people that don't know structural steel business is hit and miss sometimes depending on what's going on.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean yeah, absolutely so.
Speaker 4:I worked. I worked there for for two years, able and I was in the halfway house for a year and I moved out. I got a place where one of the guys from work at Able, his wife, was a manager, which is Tim and Olivia.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah, you know them.
Speaker 4:Yeah, bless their hearts. I call them mom and pops now, because they're like a mom and dad to me.
Speaker 1:You go over there all the time and have dinner with them.
Speaker 4:Almost every weekend. I try to. I talked to him this morning matter of fact Amen. We pray, come on. But when that happened I got laid off at Able Steel and I was staying in their apartments at Mesa Villa and I was so worried. I worry a lot because I've never had somebody to actually rely on.
Speaker 1:Not as much these days, just so you know.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You've gotten a lot better at that, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah Well, I've got a lot more I can rely on, but back then I didn't have nothing.
Speaker 1:Well, you're fresh out of prison. You weren't even what. You weren't even two years out of prison, brother. Yeah, it was about two years. Mom and dad's gone.
Speaker 4:You got nobody yeah, but I've always had nobody yeah. I've never really had anybody yeah, until you're here.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And so I was. My account is drained. I think I had like 60-something dollars in it, 62, if I'm not mistaken, 62-something cents and my rent was 700. And I told Eddie, I said, man, it sucks. I've worked all this hard to get laid off, to lose my place yeah because I've been looking for work. But, like you said, in the steel business if one company goes, it's pretty much several companies are not hiring at all anyways. And there I was just a crane operator receiving, so I wasn't where I am now, now yeah.
Speaker 4:And so they laid me off. This was about three months after the layoff. I was running out of money. I didn't have no way to pay rent. So he said pray. And I was. I was even fasting and I don't fast. I just don't. I'm sorry, maybe I should, because I I always tell myself if you don't eat, I get headaches, and I don't. You don't want my headaches.
Speaker 1:I start throwing up.
Speaker 4:I can't see the lights. I don't wish those on nobody. So I do everything in my power to not get headaches. So I prayed, and I prayed, and I prayed. It was the whole weekend. I came to church and, I'm not kidding, I walked in those doors and I can't even tell you who it was. I can't even tell you who it looked like, but if I'm not mistaken, it was two different people that handed me $100 bills.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah $100 bills.
Speaker 1:The old handshake.
Speaker 4:They shook my hand and they slid it off of my hand, saying God told me to give this to you.
Speaker 2:It's called the Pentecostal handshake. Yeah, I was like, while you were praying, god was speaking to give this to you. It's called the Pentecostal handshake. Yeah, I was like, while you were praying, god was speaking to those men. Yeah, were those men just happened to be in your life group.
Speaker 4:No. One of them was One was yeah, wait a minute. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one of them was for sure.
Speaker 4:And then Dave was another one yeah, that helped me, it's. And then Dave was another one that helped me.
Speaker 1:But I had just enough to pay rent.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I made sure it was there, buddy, and then I got into another job or they called me back. Yeah, they called me back after back yeah. They call me back after that, yeah. But anyways, I want to get to the good stuff I want to get to, where all this catastrophic stuff that was tearing me up becomes good. Yeah Granted, my sons are good, I love my son. Yeah Granted, my sons are good, I love my son.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Just so you know, from the time you got out of jail until now, it's all been good brother.
Speaker 4:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Don't discount the beginning. It was beautiful, too, to watch how God moved in your life at the beginning, when you first got out brother.
Speaker 4:But you know, I didn't leave it at the gate I know.
Speaker 1:For me, I've been there since the beginning when you got out, and so to see the growth over the years, I've got to witness it. So don't negate the beginning part, because that part was just as beautiful as the ending brother yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 4:You say that because I had a boss come and tell me that two days ago Thursday, wednesday, wednesday he comes up to me from my work and he told me. He says, sean, I want to tell how pleasant it is to be around you now. You said when you first got here you were so angry, yeah, and so brutal. It was hard to talk with. You, seemed so grumpy all the time, yeah, yeah seem so grumpy all the time.
Speaker 2:It's hard to be around people like that all the time. Bud it is. I stay by myself anyways, you're not that man anymore, you're changing.
Speaker 4:But he told me, he says that since this, since you came back and since you've been, since we talked about it, he says something's changed. Yeah, and I told him Jesus, yeah, I pointed up to this guy, yeah, I said that's what's helping me.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:He says well, stick with it.
Speaker 5:Amen.
Speaker 4:I said that's the right way, yeah said thank you, amen, and it's just so. I'm leaving out so much because if, if I don't, we'll be here until two o'clock in the morning. I don't know if you even got that much memory on your thing. Because I can, I'm long-winded.
Speaker 1:So we're doing church together. Brother, you start serving on the. I think you were a greeter A greeter. We want to start giving back. So we started doing some outreach stuff, some food box stuff, things like that, you know what I mean, which was a blessing, started giving away food. We started trying to help and be blessings yes, which was a blessing we started giving away food.
Speaker 4:We started trying to help and be blessings. Yes, yeah. And then, once we started that, we started feeling like we wasn't getting fed here, but it was all mined, oh yeah, we were all. It was all of us, oh yeah. We already had Rowdy by then.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:But we already went to California to pick up him.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And got him back from the. Living Word missionary out there.
Speaker 1:He's doing work for Just so people know, at this time in our lives me, sean Terrence, a couple of us were doing a lot of outreach stuff and we felt that we wanted to Do more, do more, and we didn't know where how. So we thought we had to leave lifelink to go do more, which, just so you know, that's total it's not how it works.
Speaker 2:That's not how it works, man biblical never leave your covering.
Speaker 1:No, never leave your covering because why? We went to go do more and we did do more, we left the protection, protection of the house the prayer, the car, and while we were doing things, some good things happen, some bad things happen, but uh, let's get into the good thing that happened. We were doing outreach, uh, with violet yeah, we were over at.
Speaker 4:Uh, what was that jefferson? Jefferson park, shout out to uh violet and God bless you, sis. In prayers for her. She is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's going through a hard time right now. Yeah, god bless her.
Speaker 4:You are lifted up in prayers, yeah man. I'm sorry for your loss.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:When I was giving my testimony there.
Speaker 2:At one of the park outreaches.
Speaker 4:At the park outreach.
Speaker 2:Jefferson.
Speaker 4:Park. I did, my son was there.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:That was the first time I've ever was able to take him to an outreach like that and I met somebody. I met this woman that I'm so blessed to have in my life. She means a lot. I never thought I could say that I seen her before it started, before I had started giving my testimony, and I don't know if it was you or if it was Rowdy, saying that I'm going to meet her and I'm going to meet her. And I told him. I said I'm going to meet her and then afterwards Rowdy was talking with Doreen, which is her niece. The one I wanted to talk to was Barb niece. The one I wanted to talk to was Barb and I talked to her. I said I don't know how to do this. I want to be godly, yeah it's really good I want to do the right.
Speaker 4:I want to do the right. You know I'm trying to change my life. That was so chaotic that you've guys heard some of the stuff, but yeah, you only got like 2% of it.
Speaker 1:You didn't get all the detail Like he said we'd be here a while, We'd be here all night. Yeah, we got it.
Speaker 2:I could tell you some stories about him and my mom jesus.
Speaker 4:We've had shootouts, we've had it's, but we're not trying to give glory to the evil no we're trying to give glory to the lord amen give it where it's due.
Speaker 2:You're at that park and you, I seen her yeah.
Speaker 4:You was talking with Doreen. Yeah, I said this is my chance. I didn't know what to say to her.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:They're saying that, they're telling me that she's not going to do nothing with you because she's Just losing a daughter. Let your heart sell you and she's going through a lot of stuff.
Speaker 1:Got her grandkids she's taking care of them. Yeah, she was going through a lot.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Three.
Speaker 4:Yeah, those are our kids. Yeah, and that's what I said. I don't know how to do this, but I mean, you want to go out for coffee or something?
Speaker 2:That's great, that's great, that's great.
Speaker 4:I didn't know, I'm new to this, yeah. So we went out for coffee Zicker the Dutch Bros, her favorite and we started talking. I got her number and once we thought that we were above lifelink and we wanted to spread our wings a little bit, me and her went to where we started dating.
Speaker 4:This was like a month period, two months period of time we're dating. And you know, while we were at that park I don't want to skip this While we were at that park, our youngest at the time shout out to my little girl she just called me.
Speaker 2:She was under a spiritual attack at that point in her life.
Speaker 4:And it was we all prayed for her.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was a very strong. Yeah Can.
Speaker 1:I tell part of the story. Yeah, go ahead, dude. Okay, so we go to the outreach one time and I remember barb was talking about hey, man, I think, I think my daughter is like got spirit, got spiritual things attached to her right, and so I remember what our brother orlando, oh my god and he's like.
Speaker 1:He's like, you know, god bless him. He was just like spiritual gung-ho dude, right, but not very spiritual, right. So he's like, so we tell, he tells, we tell barb to bring her over, let's, let's take a look at her, you know I mean. So she brings her over and orlando thinks he's gonna go go to town, you know, I mean. So he starts like going, you know, praying over her and and I'll always remember this, bro, she was a little girl, she was what? Six, four, four, five, six years old. And this grown man's like praying over her, calling things out of her, this little girl dude with the all the authority of whatever was on her, looked at this grown man and laughed at him and said they've done that before. It doesn't work, you know what I mean. And he's like, you know what I mean. She's just like. It doesn't work, you know what I mean you ain't's like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. She's just like it doesn't work. You know what I mean?
Speaker 4:You ain't got nothing for this, and I'm like just like at all.
Speaker 1:I mean, she was a little girl, bro, and she was just spoke with such authority and power to this grown man that what you're doing doesn't work. And I was just like, wow, Wow.
Speaker 4:Yes, wow, we were so overwhelmed. We I have never seen anything like that before. It was. It blew me away, brother, it was shocking yeah, it was surprising.
Speaker 1:It was, it was.
Speaker 4:Because this little girl was strong.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude.
Speaker 4:I couldn't hold her down. We were in the middle of this grass field and we were trying to all pray for her, but she was just so aggressive and brutally mean yeah, just fighting yeah she'll, bite you she'll and bless her heart.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's because of the call that's on her life bud.
Speaker 4:All that's changed I know it's what god's gonna do until they get back here.
Speaker 2:Jesus Bella, you're going to love students Pastor.
Speaker 4:Josh and.
Speaker 2:Pastor Tiffany are going to love you.
Speaker 4:You don't understand how much that girl has changed completely. Just loves the Lord it's all by the grace of God.
Speaker 2:That's only God.
Speaker 4:Bud, that's only God a god, that's only god. I mean, that's that's just only god, only because of the of the way she acts. But she's accomplished so much. Come on, I mean those girls from the time that I've come into their lives to the time that they where they are now yeah one of them's graduated, already has college credits. The other one's the top 500 in the nation of the honor roll. The top 500 in the nation, not the state.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:It's the entire. Yeah, I mean, what is the chances of this? And Bella is so much on fire for the Lord?
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:So much she won't even watch TV. If it's ungodly Amen, she'll get up and walk to her bedroom.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:It's that much is how intense she's on fire for the Lord.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Reads her Bible on a daily basis.
Speaker 2:She's keeping herself pure man, Set apart for God. It's all by the grace. It's what you have to do.
Speaker 4:It's all by the grace of God, brother. I mean, this is the same girl that was out there kicking us, and biting us?
Speaker 2:Yeah, bud, laughing at me, laughing at me, yeah, yeah, you ain.
Speaker 4:I remember, I remember looking at that girl, but I remember, yeah, so Jesus once I once I got involved with with uh restoration. Barb and restoration. We went through ministry school. Yeah, we graduated. She graduated valedictorian, of course, uh, but me and Barb, we went through graduation and it was awesome. I mean, I learned a lot, did I? Was it hard for me? Yes, I'm not going to lie, I had to do plus work in 10-hour days and then have to go home and read all this.
Speaker 2:How bad do you want it? Same thing I was going to say how bad do you want it bud?
Speaker 4:The thing of it is you've got to understand. I had to read it several times in order for me to.
Speaker 1:It was a little harder for you than a normal person.
Speaker 4:Yeah so it's not only that I have to read those 14 pages once.
Speaker 2:And again, and again, and again.
Speaker 4:And then I had to read it again.
Speaker 2:Yep, and sometimes again. Yeah, that's real bro.
Speaker 4:Because I couldn't catch, sometimes again yeah, that's real, bro Because I couldn't catch. So then I'd call somebody that her name was Cheryl that was one of the teachers.
Speaker 1:Oh, I thought that was Ivan's wife. No, her name was Sheila.
Speaker 4:No, her name was Sharon too. Oh, was it.
Speaker 1:Sharon too. All right, it was Sharon too.
Speaker 4:Sharon and Cheryl yeah. Cheryl was the teacher and Sharon was Ivan's wife. Okay, and it was intense, but I did it. Yeah, I did it and I was proud of myself.
Speaker 1:You can do anything you want, brother.
Speaker 2:Put your mind to it. You want it enough. You're going to get it. Yeah, yeah, hello, ebay eBay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's cool. Want brother Put your mind to it. You want it enough. You're going to get it yeah.
Speaker 4:Hello eBay eBay.
Speaker 1:Hello, ebay, put your mind to it, we're going to get it going.
Speaker 4:That's at the end, yeah.
Speaker 2:Let's go.
Speaker 1:My hands are sweating again. I just wanted to remind you that you can accomplish anything if you put your mind to it, brother. That's what I was wanted to remind you that you can accomplish anything if you put your mind to it, brother.
Speaker 4:That's what I was trying to remind you, I'm trying, I know I'm moving, come on, I'm moving, amen. But we got this relationship that I've been in with these kids Six or seven years, seven or eight years now. Yeah, I mean these kids. These kids are part of me, I guess 2017, 2018, somewhere around there. Yeah, so I I really miss my son and I think having these kids Well Will was. Well Will was Will was rebellious, like I was when I was. You can't tell him nothing. He's going to do whatever he wants.
Speaker 1:Well, come on man, he just lost his mom.
Speaker 4:Yeah, no, no, no. I get it, I mean but to hear somebody to say that, hey, I know, I've been through it, yeah, you know what I mean, you to hear somebody to say that? Hey, I know, I've been through it, you know what I mean. You're not going to, he's not going to hear.
Speaker 1:No, of course not, because I lost my mom too, I mean I. But you know as well as anybody that when you're in that position, you ain't trying to hear somebody trying to reason with you, right, or trying to say, I understand what you're going through, because, in his mind, how the hell do you know what I'm going through?
Speaker 5:Exactly that's what I'm saying I know what you're going through, but he's going to think that I don't have it.
Speaker 1:What another great story there brother, yeah, jesus, jesus, jesus.
Speaker 4:All those kids have surprised me so much. I just wish Stephen would do more. I wish I was.
Speaker 1:God's time. And brother. Yeah, god's time. And friend. Yeah, that's one you need to be praying about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do because none of those kids saw the old guy. Bud steven's seen some things, bro steven, was it got to experience a guy that?
Speaker 1:these kids. He got to experience his dad leaving and going to prison, is that it? And dealing with the abandonment of that, he got a lot going on too, brother. Yeah, you know what I mean. Show the kid some grace, man. Show him some mercy.
Speaker 4:Oh, I do you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Let God deal with that kid bro.
Speaker 2:Does he answer your calls?
Speaker 5:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:All right, they still have a relationship, brother. Yeah, it may not be all what Sean wants it to be, but they still have a relationship.
Speaker 2:Oh, what is he? 19? 23, the same age as your sister.
Speaker 1:Wow, they're born two days, three days apart, brother.
Speaker 2:Man them. Kids grow up quick Dang.
Speaker 4:Yep, yeah, dang, yep, yeah, so.
Speaker 1:So there I've been in their lives for seven years, seven years, six, seven years, yeah and they just recently called.
Speaker 2:Start calling me dad, not really within a year ago, wow yeah, wow, that's special when you can get there, but they let you in well, a couple years ago, you guys made a drastic change in life yeah, yeah we moved because everything is so expensive out here and I had to.
Speaker 4:I worked my tail off to try to become a better provider and a better man at everything that I do and I just wasn't making it. And I just wasn't making it. So we chose to pack up and go to Ohio and we've got a beautiful house out there. The weather is. Beautiful sometimes I think it's awesome Beautiful sometimes I think it's awesome. I don't do. I wish I had a job like I do here out there yeah. I would probably be out there.
Speaker 1:Amen Amen.
Speaker 4:But I also miss my brother and the church. I missed the fellowship but we had fellowship at the house but it wasn't it's not the same it wasn't so much of the feeding, of course. We watched Live Link every Sunday. We watched that regularly it's just different.
Speaker 2:man coming into the church and being with your people and getting your hugs from your brothers and praying for each other and getting prayer at the altar it's just different.
Speaker 1:I think in reality, bro, for those kids, the move to Ohio was the best thing for them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it got Will out of here. Because that's when they began to.
Speaker 1:We came back for will, but yeah, that's when they began to really change. I mean at least again, again, just from my perspective. I'm not, I wasn't there like you were, but for me, it seemed like when you guys went to ohio. That's when them girls really began to flourish and come into their own. You know what I mean.
Speaker 4:Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and to see where they're at now, man, the move was probably the best thing for them.
Speaker 4:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And Will. Now that you see where Will's at, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4:Yeah, he's in recovery.
Speaker 1:Got baptized.
Speaker 4:Got baptized.
Speaker 1:Come on, jesus.
Speaker 4:He's talking about God all the time in all of his Facebooks.
Speaker 1:So this was a little boy who kind of like Sean, got his inheritance and went off the deep end. You know what I mean. Yeah With fentanyl. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:So it was God rescued that boy dude, yeah, yeah, yeah so it was God rescued that boy dude.
Speaker 1:Yeah, god rescued that boy big time yeah because there's a lot of them Came out and got him Bargain Desi. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Came out and got him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the one time he was on the phone when we were all talking together, just to hear the way he was talking, bro, I was like wow, wow, dude, you keep going dude, I'd love to hear that for you, man, you know absolutely, man, because I remember the kid at
Speaker 2:the house.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the one I get out, I had you know, your mom like that boy how many times you think?
Speaker 4:yeah, we got knocked down, drag outs hey you don't talk to your mom like that you got me messed up you'll get. You'll get an attitude adjustment real quick.
Speaker 1:You know, I tell him all the time and to hear him call you, address you as dad now man, yeah, yeah. I know your brother, me and you talk every day, dude, and I know I know them girls will barb. They're everything to you, bro. I know that I know it's killing you right now to not be there with them. You know what I mean, but I think it's best.
Speaker 4:I think it's best only because that house, we'll never get a house out here.
Speaker 1:No, not like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, unless. The family's going to be working and Will's working and going to pay for some rent and Barb will's working and gonna pay for some rent. And barb's working and gonna pay for some rent and you're working brother what they paid there. Oh, I know you know, it's stupid cheap out there, why no? That's the only way you're gonna get a house. But as if everybody comes together and they all.
Speaker 1:They pay less for the house they're buying than sean pays for his apartment here, jesus yeah, it's a different 600 square foot cost of living bro, cost of living man.
Speaker 2:But like you said, the work back there is just the living, the weather, the gray skies, all of it yeah, your opinion yeah I love gray skies brother, I'll tell you what I was in the snow.
Speaker 4:the whole time I was out there in a flannel.
Speaker 5:Didn't bother me at all.
Speaker 4:Did it get cold when I had to go to work and push all those chairs in the cold? Yeah, I wore a bigger jacket there, but that was the only time I you ever seen me, yeah, in a heavier jacket. Yeah, I had the zero blow jackets and all that. Just throw a t-shirt on, go to work, put the flannel on. Yeah, that's all I did.
Speaker 1:But so what made you make the decision to come back out here?
Speaker 4:Was it work. I got offered to come back. I got let go when I was out there.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's what I remember, that you weren't in a good place back there at the end. Well, I was. Yeah, there was an altercation and there was something said and no filter, got the best of you. No filter I don't filter.
Speaker 5:I mean, if I am what I am, that's all that I am.
Speaker 1:You're not Popeye the Sailor man, are you Arr arr?
Speaker 4:Arr mate, that's a pirate.
Speaker 1:Oh, jeff just snorted, holy crap, I know, I heard.
Speaker 4:But it is hard. Yeah, I miss them all so much. Yeah, desi too. Michael Matty, I miss them all so much. Yeah, desi too. Michael Maddie, I miss them all so much. Yeah, do I wish I could have them all come back. What's that? What's?
Speaker 5:that.
Speaker 1:It's not in here, it's outside. It might be at the school next door or out back. You heard that too, the kids screaming yeah, back of the buildings right here. They're screaming, there's houses right there. Maybe I should go tell him that.
Speaker 4:He's up Trying to do podcasts.
Speaker 1:So you got offered a job to come back here, make him good money or something.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and well, I got offered two places.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and I got offered two places.
Speaker 4:One was at one place and one was at Milling. Yeah, and I chose Milling because that's where I worked for before. Yeah, and the owner Dusty never, ever did me wrong.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:So I chose to go back directly to him, because that was like a home.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:I mean, I worked for him when I was.
Speaker 1:And he's a man of God as well.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, yeah, and so I, I come back and I'm just I, I I section myself off a lot, I guess from I guess some of it could be from being in prison yeah some of it could be because I was on a school roof for so long. Yeah, I mean, I can't really give you.
Speaker 1:Being a few years in recovery now and being part of recovery ministry. Self-isolation is never good, buddy.
Speaker 5:I know.
Speaker 2:You think you're saving people from a problem or whatever. You don't want to burden them. It's not. It, bud, we love you.
Speaker 4:I know I've been through the 12 steps. I've been through NA, I've been through Alcoholics Anonymous. You've got to remember I went through a halfway house. I know I had a sponsor that was my surveillance officer self-isolation is never a good thing, buddy, I'm not saying it is, but I I talked to you. I talked to barb all the time I, I, I I'm just not a real go out and Well, you work a lot of hours, brother, you do you do 10-hour days, 12-hour days sometimes.
Speaker 5:You do hard work bro, Sometimes six days a week yeah.
Speaker 4:You do hard work, sometimes, sometimes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I get it bro.
Speaker 4:And it's the heat. I guess it seems like the heat has changed in that year and a half. I was gone. It's just you, bud, you're old. I'm like, oh my gosh, what is this?
Speaker 1:oh, you got to taste that cold. Yeah, uh-huh, that's what it is. Yeah, your blood gotta taste that cold it thickened up out here, here I said you got thin blood bud
Speaker 4:yeah, oh my gosh, and the humidity.
Speaker 1:You told me something the other day, brother, that really touched my heart, and you said that you've never had a woman love you like Barb does.
Speaker 4:Never.
Speaker 1:Hands down being your brother man. I'm excited for that for you, dude, down being your brother man. I'm I'm excited for that for you, dude, because it seems in these last, at least the last five or six years that we've been doing this man the change I've seen in you just through her being in your life and those kids being in your life and how you changed your anger yeah, you're, you ain't so grumpy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're grumpy you ain't so grumpy anymore, bud, you know, and when we first, and when we first started this journey.
Speaker 1:I can remember you telling me, brother, it's hard to read my bible.
Speaker 1:I just, I just can't, I don't really understand or comprehend what I'm reading, and now look, you're reading every day to hear you when you don't talk about when you were back there and how you and the girls would always read and how you're just reading. You know what I mean and I haven't heard you like tell me once in the last probably three or four years that man, I read the bible and I don't understand what I read anymore. Now you're starting to get it and understand it and and god, holy spirit, is allowing you to understand and comprehend what you're reading the truths of God's word.
Speaker 4:It's crazy because I can get Bella to sometimes run it down for me.
Speaker 5:Great Great. She is so intelligent. Yeah, man.
Speaker 4:She is so into and her comprehension is just blows me away. Just blows me away that this little girl is so intelligent and, by the grace of God, she's such on fire for him.
Speaker 1:Do you see why the enemy was trying to do what he was trying to do? Now? You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, now you can look back and be like wow, you know before, I'll be honest with you.
Speaker 4:Before I met Barb and the girls, I would have never spent $ hundred dollars for a Bible, a book alone Amen. And never ever yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, today you did. You brought in brand new Bible and it's like I bought me a new sword. I got it.
Speaker 4:I just went and got myself another $89.
Speaker 2:Come on, buddy yeah. Jesus, it on buddy yeah.
Speaker 4:Jesus, it's awesome that I have. Before I was like I ain't spending that much for a Bible.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:I can't even stand reading. Yeah, and it's true.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:I don't like reading. Yeah, I'm the same, I don't. I don't like reading yeah, I'm the same, I don't.
Speaker 2:But all these things that I keep seeing on social media from everything that's happening, from the floods to the wars, to the famines, the fires Jerusalem.
Speaker 4:Oh, it's all over, bud, yeah, end times it's making you stop and think that hey, maybe.
Speaker 1:Maybe this book is being played out right before my eyes.
Speaker 4:Maybe I need to read a little more. Like they say in Ezekiel, it's all over the Bible Revelations. I'll be honest with you I can't stand Revelations Neither can I, buddy, I love it?
Speaker 2:I love you, dude. I can't stand revelations. Neither can I, buddy, I love you, dude, I don't. I don't read it, I'm having. I haven't ever read the whole revelations, because I stop one of the theologians here is putting together a study on revelations. When he puts it together, I got you, bro, I love it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude it's good yeah, give me some copies got you bro you know what I love about it, because, as you're watching and you can literally like, well, something happened. It was a couple years ago, I can't remember what it was. Something happened and everybody was freaking out and it was like don't you read your bible? This is all, this is supposed to happen. Why are you freaking out? It's written right there, you know, I mean. And so, as we know and we read and we understand, and we see things being played out, we're not to panic and freak out, we're to understand. Okay, we're at this point in the bible now, you know, I mean. So it's nice to know those things for me, not that I'm gonna freak out or not that I can predict when things are gonna happen, but it's nice to know when things happen. Oh, I read about that. That's. That's where we're at now. Prophecy is being fulfilled.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man. Also, what are you hoping for in the future, bro? What do you believe in God for? Give me a couple of things, man.
Speaker 1:We're going to pray, yeah, and those people right there that are going to watch and listen are going to pray. And we're going to watch the hand of God move buddy. Make sure you talk about this ebay thing well, that's a lot more than just ebay, but it's a whole thing whatever it is, we gotta talk about it.
Speaker 4:Talk about there's so much that I want to do wow, uh, from from helping addicts, because I've been there, I've done that, I've gotten, you've got to remember, over my period I left out so much that you guys have no clue.
Speaker 1:I went through TLC, I went through Were you saying Crossroads for a little bit? Somebody else never mind Crossroads.
Speaker 4:I was sunburst, crossroads wasn't really a big thing. Crossroads I was sunburst, crossroads wasn't really a big thing.
Speaker 1:Crossroads was Billy, my bad.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I've been through so many rehabs. I went through all the brothers and sisters out there that's going through recovery, from Boo, harry, cody to TJ All the guys, chris, I mean there's so many people that are doing the deal, yeah, and that have prospered so much. Yeah man, it's God, yeah, and that have prospered so much. Yeah, man, it's, it's, it's God, there is life after addiction man.
Speaker 1:Oh there really is life after addiction.
Speaker 4:Absolutely. I have a question for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man.
Speaker 4:I might have an answer for you. Do you remember the night that we, that, that you decided what this name of this is going to be? Yeah, when was it?
Speaker 1:2014. Toby Mac yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah yeah, we were there. Yeah yeah, that was a concert. We seen the T-shirt.
Speaker 1:He said that's it. You took your son and I took my daughter. Yep, yeah, yeah, yep, yep, I still have that shirt somewhere in my closet.
Speaker 4:That's it. Speak life, not to get off the sidetrack, but.
Speaker 1:I love you man.
Speaker 4:I wanted to give glory to that.
Speaker 1:What do you believe in God?
Speaker 4:for brother, Because he's shown me so much. He's rescued me from above and beyond that you don't have a clue of that yeah, everything I have, from the tip of my toes to the top of my head. God has blessed me with. Come on, I get to help so many people, not only with my testimony, but I might not be the richest, but I got a big heart and I help as much as I can.
Speaker 2:See a need, need a need.
Speaker 4:Yep, I try that's good. I try to help people. See, even at work, I still do it yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean.
Speaker 4:What did you just start at work Prayer circle? Come on, buddy.
Speaker 2:Bringing God into work.
Speaker 4:Yeah, man, it's good dude. That all goes to the pastors here it's good bro. They brought it to my eyes and I was like so I told the main guy. I said, hey, I'm going to do prayer circle in the morning, but it seems like they're trying to attack that.
Speaker 2:Of course they're going to.
Speaker 4:Hey man, let me finish the devil.
Speaker 2:don't want that going on bud.
Speaker 4:Okay, bud, when it comes down to it, he's going to have to step back and because I will be over there eventually and I will have the authority, that I can have a prayer circle every morning and, by the grace of God, he's going to allow that.
Speaker 2:Amen.
Speaker 4:Because I'm here to do that, because I got guys there that are wanting it Come on bro. They come to me saying, hey, how come we're not praying? No more, I'm on the other side.
Speaker 1:You guys keep praying, yeah buddy, do you guys start at the same time?
Speaker 4:Well, they're in another building.
Speaker 1:I get that, but do you guys start at the same time? They're in another building. I get that, but do you guys start?
Speaker 4:at the same time, you're trying to throw this off on me no, I'm not.
Speaker 2:God gave me an idea for you if you guys all start at the same time, you show up earlier and you have your prayer so they can go to the building and you go to a building.
Speaker 1:You, you, you go.
Speaker 2:Tell each one of those dudes hey, meet me right here in the parking lot I'll show up early to pray with you before, before we even walk in, and we'll pray Yep Doesn't have to be on the job, at where you're going to work Happens before you even go in the building. Yeah, let's go, guys. Come on, we're taking this into our buildings today. What did we say?
Speaker 1:What did we say earlier?
Speaker 2:Wherever we step our feet, how bad you want it. How bad you want it, how?
Speaker 1:bad you want it, how bad you want it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, how bad you want it.
Speaker 1:Trust me, Get with those guys. If you guys are serious man, can you guys get here five minutes early and we'll meet right here.
Speaker 2:We'll pray before we go.
Speaker 1:I'm here 20 minutes early. I just need you guys to be here a little early so we can do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we all know you're there early Like clockwork. Show up early, bro, so we can pray before we go to work.
Speaker 1:It's good, it's real good. You can work around bureaucracy, you can work around politics, you can work around all that stuff, brother.
Speaker 4:Well, none of that stuff is actually. Am I afraid of a couple things, yeah, but do I want to talk about that now?
Speaker 1:No, we don't need to talk about that.
Speaker 4:But do I but what you do before?
Speaker 1:hours and off property. They can't say a damn thing about it.
Speaker 4:I have the okay that I can pray. I'm not pushing it on anybody that doesn't want it, so therefore they can stay out of this room until I get done, and I've already got that approved. So it's not like it's I'm fighting. Yeah, make it happen, trust me, I am.
Speaker 1:Anyway, let's get into the things that you really believe in. God for brother.
Speaker 4:The things I really believe in God is. He got me through so much. I was pronounced dead twice during that car accident.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:He got me through some times that I wanted to commit suicide.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:He got me through times that I never thought was possible. I give him all the glory he just walked me through. Do I need guidance? Still, I ask for it every day, abraham, every day. Do I want my family out there? Do I want them here? Do I want them out there? Do I want them here? I want to keep the house. I want to keep working because it's helping. Yeah, it's helping all together. Yeah, I can't wait till they come out.
Speaker 5:I'm so stoked.
Speaker 4:I know it's going to happen, because God already told me. That's one thing that I wish I could get more of is hearing. God, tell me straight out where you want me to go, because I want to do his will. Yeah, in his work I'm, I'm all yours, just you, just gotta just tell me yeah, show me, this is it this is coming from me do this amen, that's what I need. I got a hard head. I got a metal plate in my head. I need some.
Speaker 2:It's all about discerning his voice.
Speaker 4:I need some of that then.
Speaker 2:Amen.
Speaker 4:I'm not, but the thing is, what I really want to do is I want to get into buying storage lockers.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And I go to yard sales every chance I get, do I buy a lot of things?
Speaker 1:We found our thrift store director. Yeah, I love a good thrift store.
Speaker 4:Love a good yard sale. I don't buy a lot of things, but the things I do buy, I think I could very well turn them for profit in so many ways. I don't have a big place to put things, so I can't buy a lot Yet, yet, yet. Yeah, amen, storage units, which I've found a few things that I can get into and really do it.
Speaker 4:that's what I would like to do that's what we're gonna do, bud that's my dream, that's what I, because I feel that I can from, I guess, from selling dope. Because I feel that I can from, I guess, from selling dope having all the antiques and stuff.
Speaker 1:He knows what's valuable, I know what's valuable?
Speaker 4:I do. I mean, I bought a $700 camera for five bucks. Gopros I got them. You need them, I got them, I'm them, I got them. I'm not telling you how much I bought them, for I got some good deals. Yeah, the Lord has blessed me, and haven't I?
Speaker 1:for that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, do I want to. I'm not trying to get rich, well, who's not trying to get rich? Well, better off. Yeah, should I say it. No, I don't like speaking rich, because rich is just a number.
Speaker 1:The bottom line is what we do for a living is taxing on our bodies. Oh, and we would love an opportunity to do something that's a little less taxing on our body but still turn decent profit where we can take care of our families. Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 4:Yes, that's great, absolutely Our families and and help other families get on the right path, because I don't want to. My promise when I got sentenced to him is that I'll never leave you. We've had conversations. We're never forsaken.
Speaker 1:And we've had conversations about things that are going to come here in the near future, that people who follow Speak Life are not privy to just yet. But there's things coming, brother. You know that we talk about stuff all the time.
Speaker 5:Every day, yeah, yeah, yeah yet. But there's things coming, brother. You know that we talk about stuff all the time.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What about your family? What do you believe for your family, man?
Speaker 4:I believe we're all gonna prosper.
Speaker 1:We know them girls got a bright future.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think bella's gonna graduate de Deus one day, yeah.
Speaker 4:Oh, I wouldn't put up with. Pastor, if she's not doing that soon.
Speaker 1:I can't wait to see what God does for Will. Yeah, oh me too.
Speaker 4:That one right. There is going to be just Just a mini me.
Speaker 1:It's going to be blessing brother. I'm telling you, it's a mini me.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that kid is so much like me and bella too yeah I mean these kids. You would think that they were, they were mine I love that they call you dad, oh sure why I mean I love that you're giving these kids the love that they, that you didn't get.
Speaker 2:Why do you think these kids are changing the way that they are? Bud? His oldest daughter, because you're loving them.
Speaker 1:His oldest daughter is a beautiful girl and she told him one time that she's never felt like Sean ever looked at her in a weird way. Oh. That made her feel uncomfortable, and I mean, she's a beautiful girl.
Speaker 2:I'm sure dudes look at her with Guys are freaking perverts. You know what I mean. Yeah, a beautiful girl. I'm sure dudes look at her with Guys are freaking perverts.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean, yeah, and the fact that she said she's never Trust me with all her heart, yeah, and to me that I like how that must make a young girl feel brother, safe, protected, know that she can be herself in front of you and not feel like you're some kind of perv you know, they know, they know that those girls, uh, let's just hope they they don't hurt my kids.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean yeah, but for that young girl to feel that way, brother, I can only imagine how that must make her feel, of just that safety.
Speaker 4:Oh, they all told me that they feel safe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and to me that's probably the biggest gift you can give those two girls, bro, is just the fact that they feel safe.
Speaker 4:I think it's just they made me feel so good when I heard them say dad yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Did they like say it all at the same time, or did it happen separately? All separate? That's good yeah, it all happened when it was supposed to happen. I remember when his sister him.
Speaker 1:He loved me from the get-go. I haven't even met him yet and he already loved me. His sister, on the other hand, I still remember the day she called me dad. You know what I mean. We were driving to the little store right by Grandma's house and we were in the car and she was like Pops and I was like what? You know what I mean? You mind, I'm like no, that's an honor man. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, honor man. You know what I mean. Yeah, yeah, when you're not, when you're not someone's biological parent, but yet they, they give you that honor and call you dad yeah, I know, you know what I mean I do.
Speaker 4:I know all too well brother.
Speaker 1:Because it's an honor. Bro, I didn't bring this boy into the world. I didn't bring his sister into the world, but for them to acknowledge me as a parental figure and call me dad yeah, it's different than my children calling me dad. I feel like they're obligated to call me dad because I'm you have to I'm your dad you know what I mean. I know they do it because they love me.
Speaker 2:But for him and his sister to call me dad.
Speaker 1:It's just.
Speaker 4:It's a different sense of how do you think I feel when I?
Speaker 1:haven't bro. Yeah, dude, it's an honor bro when yeah.
Speaker 4:I thank God for the guidance that he's given me. Yeah, man, in so many ways you don't understand. I mean, do do I freak out sometimes?
Speaker 1:I'm not gonna lie, it's not not as much as you used to, though, amen, I know my engine light used to come on.
Speaker 2:Oh my god you're in this engine, light dude, I would, I've never had good cars yeah, I mean every car I get.
Speaker 4:I seem like I have to stick thousands in and it just seems like, like it's just never-ending. Yeah, it's like this car. I got it, I didn't put 16.
Speaker 1:It might be time to trade it in. It gets you something a little more reliable bud.
Speaker 4:I just spent another $3,000 on it.
Speaker 1:I know you got some more praying to be doing.
Speaker 4:Amen, that's never ending.
Speaker 1:I love you, man. It's been a pleasure. I love you, bro, truly man but you know what?
Speaker 4:there's one thing that I get from yard sales that.
Speaker 2:I love you dude.
Speaker 4:I have never turned down is bibles. You'll get some good ones too. Some old ones I have never turned down his Bibles.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, You'll get some good ones too. Yeah, Some old ones.
Speaker 4:I don't see them very often anymore.
Speaker 2:No, really, people are collecting them, bro. Yeah, lots of people got Bible museums in their house. Dude, I do. I showed you.
Speaker 5:Old Bibles are beautiful.
Speaker 4:We got a few of them back in ohio, I mean do?
Speaker 2:we've got ones that's where our family. That's one of my family we've got ones from frank. He got his grandma.
Speaker 1:I know one. I seen him crazy he's got his grandma's old one yeah, all tagged up marked up.
Speaker 4:That was one of the things that you know when before my parents died yeah, mama's.
Speaker 2:Do you have mama's bible? Mama's, mama's?
Speaker 4:no oh, I was supposed to get everything from my parents because we signed a will. Oh, the lawyer came to the house and we signed a will that I was supposed to receive everything, because I don't know.
Speaker 2:You were in prison, dude. No, but this was before.
Speaker 4:Yeah, oh man, this was before, when I was working at Milling, and they sat me down, they told me how proud they were of me and how they're sorry for you know everything. We made amends, yeah, and that's when they told me. I just want you to know that everything in this house is yours, everything, that everything in this house is yours, everything, yeah. So what you, how you distribute it, is upon you, wow.
Speaker 2:I remember you telling, I remember.
Speaker 4:And I was like how is that? Well, when I was in prison, they both passed away and I couldn't distribute anything. Yeah Wow, I didn't get anything. Yeah Wow, I didn't get anything, Wow. Nothing. Yeah, so all I wanted was pictures.
Speaker 1:What happened to all their stuff?
Speaker 4:Well, I got a hold of my dad's sister and An estate sale or something I don't know. Really damn. I I called her and I told her I said look, I said you know my history because they all the family knows my history of course and they know that I could call upon some people and be get crazy, yeah, so they don't want that.
Speaker 4:So I told them. I said, if I have to come down there and I find one thing of my parents, I'm taking the whole house, yeah, you know me if I have to get to this point, that that I'm trusting you enough to send me. I wanted the pictures. Yeah. I wanted my dad's rings. Yeah.
Speaker 2:The ones he used to thump you with. Yeah, exactly, exactly, that's it Yep.
Speaker 1:That one fits right there. There were two of them. One he wore on his pinky and one was his wedding ring Amen.
Speaker 4:And I wanted both. They were both willed to me. Yeah, I wanted those because they were my dad's. Yeah, not for value reasons. I wanted those because.
Speaker 2:Mementos bro yeah.
Speaker 4:They hit my head a lot.
Speaker 2:Memories.
Speaker 1:I showed you Mama's career cabinet. That probably has zero value as far as monetary I know mom's. But to me those things are priceless bro.
Speaker 4:And that cuckoo clock.
Speaker 1:I remember that too.
Speaker 4:But I just want. I just want to be able to help my family.
Speaker 1:I don't want them to ever have to experience some of the things you experienced, you had to.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:They will never do that as long as I'm breathing.
Speaker 2:Amen buddy.
Speaker 4:I will go to work broke, bruising and broken, I've done it.
Speaker 1:Tell the people what your little girl called and told you the other day what, come on, man, you told me about it.
Speaker 4:Tells me that all the time.
Speaker 1:Thank you, thank you, thank you for working so hard.
Speaker 4:Oh, she tells me that on a daily basis. Brother, these girls love me.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And I love them.
Speaker 1:She did it in a text message because you were all excited about what she told me. Brother, look what she said.
Speaker 4:I got so many texts from her, uh-oh, remember what I'm talking about, though.
Speaker 1:Yeah, software update. Oh no, look what she said. I got so many texts from her, uh-oh, remember the one I'm talking about, though?
Speaker 4:Yeah, software update.
Speaker 1:Oh no, don't do that, That'll take forever.
Speaker 4:I'm trying to get out of it. Hold on, there's too many texts.
Speaker 1:Remember the one I'm talking about, though, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're not going to send him looking through his text.
Speaker 1:No, Go ahead and pray for him. Dad, Hold on, I can find his hand. Oh, you're good brother, it's all right buddy, you're working hard for him. That's what it was is. Thank you for working so hard to take care of us so we can have everything that we need, yeah.
Speaker 2:Keep doing what you're doing, Sean.
Speaker 4:Yeah, man, you're making a difference for him bro. You all done with work. As in leaving All done with work, I was leaving now. Oh good, how was it?
Speaker 5:You got to go. Sean you're good bud You're good bro.
Speaker 1:I love you, man Brother, I love you dude, love you dude.
Speaker 4:I love you too, yeah.
Speaker 1:Thankful to have you in my life, brother. I hope you know that.
Speaker 4:I'm so blessed to have you in mine. Yeah, yeah, there's so many things to go back and think, brother, I don't know how we made it.
Speaker 1:Me neither Grodd.
Speaker 2:The grace of God, guys.
Speaker 4:Because it wasn't us. Hell no, hell no.
Speaker 2:You guys did everything you could to take yourselves out.
Speaker 1:I should be somewhere with a needle in my arm still.
Speaker 2:You should both be in a box six feet deep. I was going to say I don't know. Yeah, you know what I mean. I don't know about the drugs.
Speaker 4:I'm more interested in trying to just dodge those bullets.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:Those bullets burned.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:They're not very well, they don't feel very well, nah.
Speaker 1:But I love you friend, I'm thankful for you, man.
Speaker 4:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you for our conversations every day and keeping me company on my drive home.
Speaker 4:I'm sorry. I was so out of line, Not getting to the point. I guess I feel like I should have said more.
Speaker 1:No, dude, you did great, bro, this is great bro, this is really good.
Speaker 4:But you did great bro, this is great bro, this is really good.
Speaker 1:But these people have no clue. You did almost four hours, Four hours bud.
Speaker 2:You helped a lot of people today, man.
Speaker 1:Here's what I do know is what was shared was all by God.
Speaker 2:All by God, buddy.
Speaker 1:God, don't miss the mark, buddy. No, what was said is going to touch somebody's life out there. They're going to hear. They're going to touch somebody's life out there. They're going to hear. They're going to find something in that you share and be like, they can relate to that, and it's going to stir hope and faith in someone's heart. Brother, when they listen, I hope you know that.
Speaker 4:All I know is that my life now has changed. I could never imagine going back and using and doing going back in that lifestyle and even imagine me today of just having the life I have now.
Speaker 1:There's nothing of my old life that is ever appealing to me Ever.
Speaker 4:Have I ever even thought about using again?
Speaker 1:You know what appeals to me Sitting here on a Sunday afternoon listening to people tell me their Jesus story. You know what appeals to me Showing up here every Sunday morning and loving on these people and giving them a smile and shaking hands and hugging on my brothers. You know what's appealing to me is waking up in the morning and seeing my Bible on the kitchen table and flipping it open and reading the chapter.
Speaker 4:Those things I got to get back into that, those things are appealing to me, brother.
Speaker 1:There ain't nothing about dope robbing, stealing crime, that is ever appealing to me anymore.
Speaker 4:I don't. Well, I've seen no, I've seen Tom yeah.
Speaker 2:Well.
Speaker 4:I've seen Tom. Yeah, that's got to break your heart, god. And I told him. I said man, how can you be so dang dumb? I said is this the life you want to live? Is this the life I mean? You can't even walk to the kitchen without kicking something. I said this is pathetic. And I told him. I said I'm done.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sometimes you walk so far in the forest that it's hard to find your way back out, buddy, and unfortunately for him, he's walked so far into the forest.
Speaker 2:They've been living like that for that.
Speaker 4:Unfortunately for him he's walked so far into the forest. They've been living like that for that. But the thing of it is, is I, I, I? You can't say that they've been living like that. Get out of there.
Speaker 1:They ain't living but.
Speaker 4:That you can't.
Speaker 3:I've been doing dope a lot longer than they have. Not anymore, not anymore.
Speaker 1:Yeah but Tommy, not anymore. They surpassed you bud you.
Speaker 4:They might have, they might have.
Speaker 2:But you were doing the dope, the dope's doing them bud.
Speaker 4:Yeah it's been like that for a long time. The thing is, they didn't. They didn't get into the dope until until I was involved.
Speaker 5:Yeah amen do.
Speaker 4:I have to until I was involved? Amen. Do I have to ask for forgiveness all the time? Yeah, I do. It hurts yeah, because I think sometimes that it was my fault for their life to be so screwed up, can't do that.
Speaker 1:They still made that choice. Yeah, you Can't do that. They still made that choice.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you can't do that, I know that, but I come to agreement, that you know. I come to understanding with that, because I'm so dope to so many people, so dope to so many people. I mean, even at my work, even the owner told me that I need to get away from his company.
Speaker 1:Here's what I do know, brother, is that the things we did in the darkness, we cannot carry into the light with us. Yeah, that's right, amen, I like that stuff you got to let go. There are things that we did, that we were not you weren't right we were not in the right frame of mind to be held accountable for now because we're in the light and we understand that those things were wrong and we did them now.
Speaker 1:But what we can't do is we can't bring those things with us, because where we're going, those things can't go, you're going higher, man, the things we're trying to do for the lord, those things can't go. You're going higher, man.
Speaker 2:The things we're trying to do for the Lord. Those things can't go Healed Whole. No resentments, no bitterness, no.
Speaker 1:And you've asked for forgiveness. Enough and you've done. I know we've had conversations about your brother. You've done so much to try to get them out of that so much, dude.
Speaker 2:That so much bro.
Speaker 1:They can't say they didn't have a chance. They've come to church with us, brother yeah all three of them I brought them here, all three of them.
Speaker 2:They see what we're doing, dude, they can make the all three been to this church yep yes so they know several times they know, brother.
Speaker 1:So for them to keep choosing what they're doing is their choice. Now it's no longer attached to you. Yeah.