Norma D. Testimony

What if your deepest pain became the catalyst for your greatest purpose? In this raw and powerful conversation, Norma shares how childhood trauma and addiction led to an unexpected journey of healing and redemption.

Growing up in a border town with parents battling alcoholism, Norma's early years were marked by instability. At just seven, she experienced both a divine dream showing God's love and the trauma of predatory behavior from her landlord. When she tried to report it, she faced the crushing experience of being disbelieved and ostracized—a pattern that would tragically repeat when her uncle sexually abused her at fifteen.

These experiences triggered destructive coping mechanisms: bulimia, self-harm, and eventually, a suicide attempt that nearly succeeded. But divine intervention came through an observant store clerk who sensed something was wrong and called for help.

Norma's transformation began in a Pentecostal church where she experienced physical healing, then deepened during nine months at the International House of Prayer in Kansas City. There, immersed in continuous worship and prayer, she found the freedom that secular therapy alone couldn't provide—a complete restoration of identity founded in Christ rather than trauma.

Today, Norma's life looks radically different. Married with two children, she runs a bridal boutique that supports trafficking survivors and leads a nonprofit fighting human trafficking in Southern Arizona. Her story powerfully illustrates how God never wastes our pain, and how our deepest wounds, when surrendered, can become our most effective ministry to others.

Whether you're wrestling with trauma, addiction, or simply searching for purpose, this episode offers hope that transformation is possible and that your story isn't over yet.

Chapters

• 0:15 Meeting Norma and Opening Conversation
• 13:07 Childhood Trauma and Early Struggles
• 31:25 Battling Eating Disorders and Self-Harm
• 53:28 Encountering God and Supernatural Healing
• 1:07:05 Finding Freedom at IHOP Kansas City
• 1:33:19 Marriage, Family, and Rebuilding Life
• 1:50:37 Sister's Cancer Journey and Spiritual Impact
• 2:10:40 Current Ministry and Future Vision
• 2:42:47 Final Prayers and Closing Thoughts

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:15

All right, everybody. Welcome back to the Speak Life Ray Z podcast. Testimony of Jesus and Everyday People. I'm your host, Eddie, and always with me is my son, roddy.

Speaker 2: 0:23

Jesus. What up, bro? What's up dude? Chilling dog. How was your day, buddy, busy?

Speaker 1: 0:28

come on, man, people are praying for you, I know I don't want to say stop, but, lord, you're wearing me out dude guys.

Speaker 2: 0:35

You need to be praying that the boss leaves so ownership changes hands.

Speaker 1: 0:40

I don't mind being busy, I hate slow days anyway. So yeah, no, I get it, man. Oh yeah, that's good man he sure is, buddy, I'm not gonna complain, mind being busy. I hate slow days anyway so. Yeah, no, I get it man. Oh yeah, that's good man. He sure is buddy. I'm not going to complain about being busy, amen.

Speaker 2: 0:50

It was really good. Man Took care of some Celebrate Recovery stuff. Nice Reached out and starting to work on the worship list for December at Teen Challenge man Nice man, I was able to reach out and connect with one of the brothers man that does a really good acoustic worship. So yeah, just setting things up because it's the day that the church has their big snow day man. That kind of eliminates the church people they're going to be busy all day and snow and kids.

Speaker 2: 1:16

Yeah, it's good. Cool, you ready. I am excited for this one. Who'd you bring with you brother man? Dude, we've got Sister Norma. How are you, norma? How you doing, friend? This is actually the first time we met. I believe it is in person.

Speaker 4: 1:32

Yeah, we kind of connected online, with some Celebrate Recovery conversation. You gave me some feedback about kind of getting my story together which was actually really helpful feedback. So it's really nice to meet you guys and just be here, of getting my story together, which was actually really helpful feedback. So it's really nice to meet you guys and just be here. It's really humbling and exciting, because testimonies to me is like when we get to give God the glory.

Speaker 1: 1:55

Yeah, man, amen, I love that that caught me off guard.

Speaker 2: 1:59

That was actually pretty good, it's real.

Speaker 1: 2:03

So when God gave us this, this, especially when we started doing video, he made it very clear to uh honor his children. Man, so we thank you for your time. Uh, ratty made it very clear that you drove up from tucson, so, man, that's just huge man. Um, god showed us these last few months that time is. It's not a commodity that is restorable, it's. We're limited on our time and we got so much.

Speaker 1: 2:25

It's only 24 hours in a day. When our time comes, our time comes. We don't get it extended. So when people share their time with us to come share their story to me, it has no value. We can't place a value on your time and we thank you priceless um and we pray that god honors you and just man blesses you beyond just blows your socks off. Man for giving us your time and we thank you for that oh, thank you.

Speaker 2: 2:47

Yeah, uh, for me, sis, it's, it's cool how god works man um. I just love how the body of christ really is in it for each other family especially, especially with celebrate recovery.

Speaker 2: 3:01

Um, we, we are there for each other and we're, and a lot of us, have hearts to help man and we want to see people their lives change and grow into their next seasons. Because we're, we've all got different, we're all at different places, we've all got next steps with God, um, and they all look different, um, but like dad was saying, man, when, when, uh, let me pray real quick, I've got these nerves, let me pray and we'll just kind of get into this thing.

Speaker 2: 3:30

Jesus, man, god, I thank you for what you're going to do right now. I thank you for this testimony. It's like she said, it gives you glory. We've shared multiple times, god, about how a real encounter with Jesus leads to life change. So I just thank you, god, for what you're getting ready to do. Holy Spirit, I pray you just come and rest on Norma. Yeah, I pray that you use her words, god, with clarity. I thank you that you're going to show her little things in her life and remind her, god, about these little stories that she's experiences, these beautiful things, god, that she can remember. It's kind of like mileposts in her testimony. Thank you, lord. I thank you that this is anointed by God and it's going to go forth and accomplish all your purposes, god. I thank you for the women who are going to listen to this, that they're going to be encouraged. Their faith is going to be stirred, god, and they're going to take their next steps with you. So I just pray all this in Jesus name, amen, amen, Amen.

Speaker 2: 4:35

When God gave this to us, it was 2020. He gave a lot of people podcasts and during COVID man, but for the first couple of years we were not obedient to what God was telling us to do. Shocker, shocker. Some of us like to run ahead of him. Yes, but at the beginning of 23, when we were like, dude, what are we doing with this man? And God showed us a three-chord strand.

Speaker 2: 5:05

He showed us Speak Life AZ Podcast the testimony of Jesus in everyday people. It doesn't matter if you're like dad and you're out in the car shop and welding, cutting up cars, man and having fun, or myself and here at a church on staff, kind of making the wheels spin at a church through the week, or like yourself. We've all got a story, we've all come from somewhere and when we meet Jesus, he gives us a testimony. He turns our tests in life into a testimony, our mess into a message that we are able to share in person and in platforms like this, which is kind of cool because I don't know about you, I don't know about your upbringing, uh, myself, um, I grew up in Phoenix community church and it's a Baptist church and um, I can, I can literally remember people in the middle of service raising their hands and shouting out I want to testify. And they would testify about like something in their family or like a financial breakthrough or a healing and how.

Speaker 2: 6:04

God moved in their life and now, um, I got saved in 2014 and I've been to a lot of different churches in California and Arizona. You don't really see or hear too many testimonies in the church. Um, it's kind of like one of the things that maybe um with with the big C church that we've kind of lost. So it's cool that, um, god's given us this platform for people just to come in and share, because, so, the fact that we all have a story. Basically, we just want a couple of things from you today.

Speaker 2: 6:35

We want to know who Norma is. We want to know where, where Norma was born. We want to know what your childhood was like growing up, your relationship with your parents, brothers and sisters. What was school like for you? Was God in the home? Did you grow up in church? What did that look like for you, me and dad and yourself being involved in Celebrate Recovery? You know that a lot of the hurts or the offenses or the traumas or the stuff that kind of messes us up in life, it happens as kids. Childhood trauma is when we're so young that we don't know how to process it all and we don't know how to talk about it.

Speaker 2: 7:12

Just bury it, bury it and move on, soldier, but no man. We get to a place as adults where it's like, oh, I have to deal with this and I have to start working through some of this stuff in order so that I can live a better life now. So we just want to know any of that stuff. Let Holy Spirit totally lead you in that. But the most important thing we want to get today is your encounter with Jesus, Because the way that God met you is so personal to your, your testimony with him. God Jesus met dad in a prison cell, at a locked down yard. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 7:50

Myself, I was in Teen Challenge in Phoenix and I remember the altar being on the right side under that thumping bass speaker and God literally telling me son, I love you, son, I forgive you. And it changed my life. But we want to know how god drew you to him. And that looks different for everybody. Yeah, um, some people they go through like a process or a period of multiple different encounters with him. Other people it happens in an instant burning, like my.

Speaker 2: 8:21

My day was august 26, 2014. That was the day my whole life changed. Mine was a process, mine, his was a process. So we want to know what that looks like for you, um. But then, like we were talking about man, our testimonies. Now we're at a place we're able to give god glory, and anytime you look through the bible and you see people that met jesus with a real encounter with god there. It led to life change, transformation. It's the evidence of, of an encounter with God, um. So we want to know how your life changed. And then, at the very end, sis, you're still young and I I know from some of the stuff on social media you've got a heart for the kingdom and a heart to help women and um. So we want to know what you're hoping for in the future so that we can pray for you. But we've got listeners. We've got people that watch, that are faithful, and they pray for you as well. So, yeah, it's going to be good. We get to watch God move, holy Spirit have your way.

Speaker 1: 9:20

So what was it like growing up man?

Speaker 4: 9:22

Well, I grew up, actually, in nogales, which is a small border you're in arizona, come on.

Speaker 1: 9:28

Yay, we're rare these days. We are, they're all transplants from the midwest.

Speaker 2: 9:34

We've done a lot of testimonies and very, very few are actual arizona, ohio, nebraska, down illinois.

Speaker 1: 9:42

A lot of the snow people come to the desert, not a lot of Arizonans. Man, no.

Speaker 4: 9:47

Oh no. So yeah, nogales. And what's unique, it's a border town.

Speaker 3: 9:51

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 9:53

And a lot of basically half of my family lived in Mexico, okay, and we lived, you know, in Arizona, and growing up I was exposed a lot, through my grandmother, to Catholicism, but my parents were not practicing Catholics, um, and my dad battled alcoholism, um, and then my, my mom actually experienced a severe car accident and after that, um, she also um battled battled alcoholism, um.

Speaker 4: 10:28

So there was, like, right, a lot of like trauma growing up, but, um, the very first encounter I had with god actually was when I was a, when I was a kid. Um, and then, like that seed was like quickly, like the enemy tried to steal it, right, but I'll get into of how God ended up using it for his glory.

Speaker 4: 10:47

But when I was seven, like I said, I didn't really know much about the gospel really. And so when I was seven, because my parents and their addictions, right Like they did not show me affection, because they didn't have the ability to show affection I mean now. You can understand it later.

Speaker 1: 11:06

But yeah, yep as a kid.

Speaker 4: 11:08

You're like uh, am I loved?

Speaker 3: 11:09

yeah it's real. Am I the problem?

Speaker 4: 11:11

that's real man, that's real.

Speaker 1: 11:13

Am I the problem um? My dad loved race cars?

Speaker 3: 11:15

I was questioning hey, you love that car more than me, dude.

Speaker 2: 11:20

No, that's real yeah right especially especially with addiction, though, and when, when addictive drinking or drugs come in, it changes people, and especially parents, makes people very selfish. It does, it does, and the crazy thing is is I don't know, do you have kids? I do you do? They don't give you a book and say here, this is how you raise your kid, so that everything works out perfect. It's a struggle and parenting isn't easy Not excusing stuff like that but it's real, it's real.

Speaker 4: 11:54

No, it is real. So when I was seven, I had a dream of babies raining from the sky with like lightning as well right, like blue and yellow and bright red, and there was a baby in a basket and I walked towards the baby. I didn't see like the face or anything, but as I got closer then I felt love for the first time.

Speaker 2: 12:17

Wow.

Speaker 4: 12:20

And then you know, and then I heard like Jesus died on the cross for you.

Speaker 3: 12:24

Wow.

Speaker 4: 12:25

And so I woke up and I asked my parents about this dream, right? And then, you know, and then I heard like Jesus died on the cross for you, wow. And so I woke up and I asked my parents about this dream, right, like, did Jesus die on the cross for us? They're like yes, and they weren't able to like explain or help me to like process the dream.

Speaker 3: 12:37

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 12:38

I just knew. I mean now I can say it, but I think as a kid I really actually interpreted as like I had done something that God was trying to send me a message Like I had done something somehow, like as a seven year old kid.

Speaker 2: 12:53

That in your mind? Yeah, in my mind.

Speaker 4: 12:54

And so I remember being like OK, like I want to feel that love again and I knew it was, it was God but just very like basic understanding, Right. Like, ok, god showed me his love. I felt it was God, but just very like basic understanding, right. Like, okay, god showed me his love, I felt it. There was something I did. And so I remember literally being seven, like okay, I'm going to like, help my parents to clean the house and I'm going to be really good, so I can have that dream again or so I can feel God's love again.

Speaker 3: 13:18

Oh yeah, oh man isn't that that?

Speaker 2: 13:22

because, dude, what works Well, no, no, but that's how God shows himself to a lot of people for the first time is through a feeling. Remember you were in, we were literally at Phoenix Community Church and God showed up. Because he said a little prayer during worship and God, I got to, I want to experience, and he literally felt God, kind of like what you were experiencing it was like a tingling sensation that I've never felt before.

Speaker 1: 13:47

And so I look at his sister, who's like 10 years old, and I'm like I'm bawling. He's all crying and emotional and I'm fresh out of prison and we don't cry.

Speaker 3: 13:55

You know what I?

Speaker 1: 13:56

mean, and I'm like why? And she's like it's the. I stopped questioning whether you're God or not. Yeah, you know what I mean, so up until that point I questioned if you're really God, show me. You know what I mean. I wanted to know. I didn't grow up in church. You know what I?

Speaker 4: 14:09

mean yeah, yeah, I didn't either, yeah, and so I asked my grandmother about it, and she was able to explain like she explained to me right Like God just wanted To show you his love.

Speaker 3: 14:21

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 14:22

We don't earn it.

Speaker 1: 14:23

Yeah, we can't earn it.

Speaker 4: 14:25

Come on, and so that was like the very first seed planted.

Speaker 1: 14:29

And so Was your grandma like regularly in your life all the time. Yeah, Actually yes, did she take you to church?

Speaker 4: 14:35

Yeah, she would yes.

Speaker 1: 14:37

Okay To mass, yeah, okay Regularly. Okay whenever you were with grandma, yeah, whenever, yeah, whenever, yeah, whenever I'd go to mexico oh, she was in mexico.

Speaker 4: 14:48

Okay, oh, okay, my bad, it's okay. Yeah, so whenever you guys, no, just whenever we'd go to, like, nogales, mexico and then shortly um was that something that you looked forward to?

Speaker 2: 14:57

we're going to grandma's.

Speaker 4: 14:58

I'm going to church I did actually really, yeah, I think that dream really like build a foundation, like I was a kid, you know, so it's like I don't know. That really marked me, your faith, yeah.

Speaker 2: 15:11

We've had a testimony on here, pastor Ashley Banks, you can go back and listen to it and she was literally about that age, praying for a baby sister, and God out of nowhere got her mom pregnant and that became her baby.

Speaker 3: 15:26

Not out of nowhere got her mom pregnant and that became her baby, not out of nowhere.

Speaker 1: 15:28

Things happen.

Speaker 2: 15:30

And it marked her and it gave her a faith that she's like oh my God, I can pray, for I can pray and God hears me. It's like God will use crazy things, man, to really show himself to us in ways that we need.

Speaker 4: 15:42

He knows what we each know, like what we each need, and I think I really needed that as a kid because I really the other way I interpreted was like God's dependable, like people in my life were not dependable, but he was. So I think that's why it really just marked my life really right, it was like a foundation.

Speaker 2: 16:01

Were you an only child.

Speaker 4: 16:03

No, I had a younger sister. She did pass away from cancer, which we probably should talk a little bit about because it's a really powerful testimony, um, but yeah, so I had a younger sister and it was just the both of us, um, the two of us, and then, um, shortly after that, um, we lived in an apartment complex that was like very community oriented, and the landlord one time came up to me. So they were, they would all drink together and basically all the kids would play together, right, like it was a thing adults drinking, we were playing um.

Speaker 4: 16:36

So at when I was seven, the landlord came up to me and said hey, like when your parents aren't home, you and I are going to hug each other oh, no, yeah and dang man I just knew, you know, like that discernment of like something is just this is not okay, yeah and so and and then I was scared, really yeah, because I just knew like this is not that, like that's not good, right, like it's not going to lead to something good.

Speaker 4: 17:11

So I a time, a little bit of time passed, and I and I told my mom, because it just really like shook me.

Speaker 3: 17:20

I remember feeling the trauma of it.

Speaker 4: 17:22

Right, I'm like you know we're going to hug each other. And it just that's like the danger and felt so helpless. So I actually had the courage to tell my mom, and you know, of course, when I told her she was drunk and she, she actually was like upset at me and she's like what do you want me to do about it? Oh, no. And man Dang and I, just me to do about it. Oh no and um, man dang and I just started, guys, it's, you know it just but yeah, it's intense it's.

Speaker 1: 17:55

He cried when the wind blows it's very.

Speaker 2: 18:00

It's something that I believe god has.

Speaker 1: 18:02

We've done enough of these, and this is very.

Speaker 2: 18:06

It's so prevalent that it's sick. It's something that's going on in our society. That's like be hidden. It's hidden behind closed doors and it's not talked about. And I couldn't tell you how many women we've had on this that maybe if they would have had a conversation like that that that wouldn't have happened to them. But it takes courage for a young girl and a lot of times, man, when a young girl goes through that or experiences it, it seems like they start to blame themselves, like it's their fault. And that's not at all what it is, man.

Speaker 2: 18:39

It's these men that are sick and twisted and perverted and and manipulating Jesus man but it's one of the things that I really believe God's called me to help men heal from and kind of change, because somebody has to help these guys. Somebody has got to speak truth to these dudes, man, in a loving way that they'll receive Jesus and realize, man, what they're doing is wrong. What that looks like, I don't know, but I'm just Lay it out for them, god.

Speaker 4: 19:11

Yeah, well, I'm going to really be praying for you on that because actually a lot of the work that I do now is bring awareness to human trafficking and sexual exploitation, like I'm actually an advocate I have a ministry for that, but so and I always trafficking and sexual exploitation. Like I'm actually an advocate, I have a ministry for that, um, but so and I always ask myself, right Like why are all these men?

Speaker 1: 19:30

Do you have any connections with people in Phoenix? No really I'll have to give you some connections. There's people here that do the same thing.

Speaker 4: 19:37

Yep, awesome. Okay, yeah, that'd be amazing, um so you said.

Speaker 2: 19:41

You said why are men buying sex? It's lust, it's perversion, it's self-pleasure. It's, it's, it's a long, it's a lot, but it becomes a way that we can control this little demon. He could trust me. I know, sis, I was in addiction. I was in the streets, I did it and it was something that's a lot. I'm not hurting nobody else, not realizing what, what this poor girl's going through, or what I hate to use the lame term of hurt people, hurt people.

Speaker 1: 20:09

But the reality is that's what it is, that's true men have been through trauma, men have been through rejection, men have been hurt in relationships, so a lot of times it's just easier to go pay for it get what I want, go on my way, move on, not have to deal with the relationship aspect of it. Does that make it right? No, but hurt people do hurt people, and most of the time it's men. Get sexually abused as boys too, and things like that, and it's something that's just passed on. You know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 20:38

Not making it right, Unfortunately you know we're not saying it's okay or giving them passes, but that's the reality of it is.

Speaker 2: 20:45

People are hurting man, I mean they need recovery, they need healing, they need jesus.

Speaker 1: 20:49

Yeah, yes, that's what's changed my, my whole mindset of what it is to look at a woman it's him, and we've had other women who came on and said that they went and told their moms and their moms said something similar like what am I supposed to do? Yeah, I mean, or if it was against her boyfriend or her husband, like chose them.

Speaker 2: 21:06

You know what I mean over there, and it's again broken people.

Speaker 1: 21:11

You know what I mean.

Speaker 4: 21:11

Yeah, yeah um well, so really um so after no, you're okay, you're okay after she said that, I was like, okay, like what you know, I just still had this fear because he was so sick like he actually one time hosted like um, he's like, hey, we're gonna have like a hawaiian like costume contest and all the kids had to dress up and get it like he was a predator, so he was like enjoying it and I could. Yes, and I could tell the way he was like looking at us and so I remember thinking like I have to do something yeah um so you're.

Speaker 4: 21:50

You said your sister was younger yeah, we were actually a year apart, so oh, so you are kind of close.

Speaker 2: 21:56

Yeah, we were very close.

Speaker 4: 21:58

Yeah, I'd love to share um the testimony of what um she went through but um we'll get to that.

Speaker 2: 22:05

Yeah, we'll get to that but see um so I did you kind of protect her, and for it was, or I was kind of protective of her and then.

Speaker 4: 22:17

But once I started noticing that like these little shows kind of became more often and nobody thought anything of it other than me, right, because he verbally said it to me yeah um, I think I was like okay, it's up to me to do something. So I actually then at school told my teacher oh, wow but I go hey

Speaker 4: 22:37

I go, hey, but see, I think it's like god kind of, since I was a kid kind of put this boldness in me because throughout my whole life I've used it right like it's not even because really like what seven-year-old can have that type of like it's God right, really yeah and I had already had that encounter with him.

Speaker 4: 22:55

That really did have me have like a prayer life yeah so it's not, it wasn't even my boldness, it was God's boldness. And so I go to my teacher and I'm like, hey, like. So I told her what she said and, um, she said well, um, I don't think he, he, he meant it like in, like in a bad way like maybe he just wanted to like a hug yeah and I was like no, it really felt.

Speaker 4: 23:21

And then I try to explain the you know like the parades and the costume contest, and she's looking at me like I'm crazy, and so then I go, okay, well, so then I made something up.

Speaker 2: 23:33

Yeah, dang. So not validated, not seen at that moment. What you went through. It's probably not something that you're probably making this bigger than it really, but why would?

Speaker 1: 23:46

why would a teacher try to validate a grown man advocating for a hug from a girl who's not even his relative?

Speaker 4: 23:54

he's right. Yeah, you know what I? Mean yeah yeah, it was just I don't know, it was just sick, and so I I mean I was desperate, right. So then I actually then ended up making up a lie and I was like he took my shirt off, she's like, oh, okay, well, which he didn't right. She's like, okay, we'll make a report. And I remember feeling a relief, right, because I really just wanted safety.

Speaker 4: 24:17

Yeah, I just wanted safety for me, for my sister, like the children in the community, and so you know they, they did a police report and then, um, of course, like they found discrepancies, like in my story, and so then they're like hey, did you make this up?

Speaker 4: 24:35

and I was like I did but, and then I still tried to say right, but like he said this and I still wasn't really being heard, um, so then they send a therapist to my house and I remember I just hid under the bed and I wouldn't talk at all and then eventually, like it just kind of went away yeah but what was really sad about this whole story which again, god ended up redeeming right later in life is that, like um, a lot of the the children in the neighborhood were like hey, my parents don't want me to play with you because you know you lied about our landlord and so I became the villain, do you?

Speaker 3: 25:14

realize like the anger and like the injustice of like then I became the villain yeah, of the community, and I'm like, as a kid, kid, as a kid.

Speaker 1: 25:24

Yeah, that's crazy, but it's always that way.

Speaker 4: 25:29

It really is he's right?

Speaker 1: 25:30

yeah, it's always that way, the one to expose it is always the one who's painted as the villain, because now you've ruined the little Jesus. Yeah, or I don't know. You know what I mean, yeah. Yeah, their bubble or their you know their sense of safety, or their sense of security or their comfort of you know, or the fact that you know we might lose our place now because this dude's a pervert and we got to go somewhere now.

Speaker 1: 25:50

You know what I mean, we'd rather just act like nothing's going on so we can just stay in our apartment and be comfortable, even though he you know what I mean.

Speaker 4: 25:59

Yeah, it happens so much it really does. It does, and I think so. Then growing up, I think for me. What that did for me is I became such a hard people pleaser because I didn't want to be a villain.

Speaker 3: 26:11

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 26:12

Right.

Speaker 3: 26:16

Like I'll do anything to not be the villain again.

Speaker 4: 26:19

But yes, I got broken free of that.

Speaker 1: 26:24

But so I feel led to do you think the enemy was trying to silence you yes from like being bold, like you were, and courageous standing up for yourself and he was like because the devil has no power, he can only use people so he'll speak things to people, to speak things to other people to get people to shut up. You know what I mean?

Speaker 4: 26:44

no, I really did, because that boldness didn't get me anywhere yeah like I just reaped yeah yeah like shame and just yeah it. It almost felt like yeah like.

Speaker 2: 26:55

So, yeah, I definitely feel like that was an attempt to yeah like because you you, you got your parents involved, you got your school teachers involved, and then there was police involved and none of them did anything with the guy. Yeah, Right. You still, after all that there's the landlord still having his little parties with the kids. You know what I'm saying. So it's like I totally can feel how. All right, I'll just shut up and just move on, mm-hmm and just move on.

Speaker 3: 27:32

Yeah, and I um, I mean he actually um I also think in a lot of ways um it did kind of stop him in his trails yeah, oh right, because I kind of brought that exposure yeah, wow um so obvious.

Speaker 1: 27:40

So really I don't scare the crap out of somebody. Yeah, I think so. I mean. Yeah, I mean predators hide behind grooming and secrets and all.

Speaker 4: 27:43

Yeah, I think so, I mean.

Speaker 1: 27:44

Yeah, I mean predators hide behind grooming and secrets and all of that, and so I'd already just exposed right well, they go one of two ways they either get really bold or they get scared and stop.

Speaker 4: 27:56

And I mean so obviously you didn't get really bold, so that's good yeah, I think you just kind of kept it on like the, did he?

Speaker 1: 28:01

stop having those little things. Yeah, oh, okay, all right, yeah, so you don't.

Speaker 2: 28:06

You don't know who, by speaking up, you could have saved other kids from experiencing something.

Speaker 4: 28:11

Yeah, wow, it took me a really long time to see like the redeeming part of it, because for so long, right, it was like shameful kids yeah kids didn't want to play with me. It's like oh, she's the liar right like just all these things when really I tried for so long to just share the truth. Nobody would listen, yeah, so yeah, so after that another significant oh, go ahead.

Speaker 2: 28:40

What was school like for you growing up in Nogales?

Speaker 4: 28:43

Yeah, that's a good question. So, um, actually, um, since my parents didn't know you know english, we were. They were from mexico. Um, school was really hard because I didn't know english and back then there wasn't a lot of resources like there's today right to help with, like esl and yeah, translating and all that um.

Speaker 4: 29:05

So I was made fun of a lot in school for not knowing English and I remember one time I came home like crying and my dad's like I mean I can't help you, like you're gonna have to like figure it out, you know. And even in Nogales they were making fun of you for not speaking english yeah, because, like because there was a lot of children that were I mean, the ones that were making were bilingual yeah um because, being a, border town. It was common right to have like by like.

Speaker 2: 29:37

Yeah, so it's your own people that are making fun of you. I thought it was like the white kid, but no, it was. It was your own people, man, jesus dude well I know how I was as a little kid man and kids suck.

Speaker 3: 29:53

Kids are mean dude, it was a good point I didn't realize that you're right, my own people like you don't speak two languages.

Speaker 2: 30:03

I think, that she's right, Chill out bro I'm getting there, I'm learning yeah, so

Speaker 4: 30:12

that was, yeah, I mean that was hard, but I think my dad saying kind of like you'll have to figure it out, I think.

Speaker 1: 30:20

Do you still speak Spanish?

Speaker 4: 30:21

I do Nice Fluent both of them, nice, I love that.

Speaker 2: 30:24

Do your kids speak Spanish, I do, nice Fluent. Both of them Nice, I love that.

Speaker 1: 30:26

Do your kids speak both. No, oh, sister, you got to work on that. I have this buddy Jose.

Speaker 2: 30:31

Yeah, we've had people on, he's from.

Speaker 1: 30:34

Joshua Tree, California.

Speaker 4: 30:36

Okay.

Speaker 1: 30:37

His parents were from Mexico as well. That's all they spoke, and that's all they spoke. Yep, they speak English too, but in the house it was Spanish. And so now he has three young kids and in the house he speaks Spanish. When they're out in public and he's addressing his kids, it's in Spanish. You know what I mean. But when his kids talk to you, they'll talk to you in English. And I even told him I said because my mom's French, my mom was from France and she didn't teach us French. And when I finally wanted to learn French, she's like I haven't spoken in so long. I forgot.

Speaker 1: 31:09

And so I always was like mad at her for not teaching us. So for him I'm like kudos to you, dude. Keep that going in your kids, man. Don't let that die. Don't let that die. Don't let them bullies tell you kids, just because you don't speak English don't

Speaker 3: 31:22

teach them.

Speaker 4: 31:24

My kids are five and six.

Speaker 1: 31:27

Oh, so they're little.

Speaker 2: 31:28

They're still young enough to learn, they're still impressionable and they're boys and actually a really awesome test.

Speaker 1: 31:35

Do you know they'll have a better chance in life if they speak both languages. Right, I do.

Speaker 4: 31:39

I hear that a lot, I know. Thank you.

Speaker 2: 31:46

It just takes some time mama.

Speaker 1: 31:47

I feel motivated now yeah.

Speaker 3: 31:48

Holy Spirit. Breathe on. What's one of the questions you see on some applications Are you bilingual? Yeah, it's more money.

Speaker 1: 31:51

They'll get a better opportunity than most people, because they speak both languages.

Speaker 4: 31:55

It's true, Get her dad.

Speaker 2: 31:56

Get her. We're going to pray. It's important, it's important it really is.

Speaker 4: 32:01

I agree, I feel motivated.

Speaker 1: 32:02

Especially you being having heritage from Mexico, and don't let that die on your kids, man, please.

Speaker 2: 32:08

And they're boys. Don't listen to mama.

Speaker 1: 32:10

That's true. Don't let that die. That's important man, that's your heritage, that's your lineage. That's for me being having French lineage. I wish I had that. You know what I mean. So don't let that die on your kids, please. Amen. I hear you, I receive it I receive it.

Speaker 4: 32:27

No, you're good, I receive it um but speaking of kids, though, actually when I was um 13, I made this like inner vow with myself that I was never gonna get married, and never gonna have kids um, and that's because. So my dad had an affair and I had a half sister yeah um because of it this is not your sister, your younger sister.

Speaker 2: 32:51

This is another one.

Speaker 4: 32:52

Yeah, okay yes, um, yeah, that he had with an affair that my dad had and my mom was completely, like you know, devastated, couldn't function you know all the things, but then also Couldn't function. You know all the things. But then also, shortly after that, some of her two of her closest friends also experienced, you know, an affair, and so I would watch them, completely like crumble, and I remember and so that's why I think my 13 year old mind is like I don't want that and I specifically even said I was like like a man is never gonna have that power over me how long.

Speaker 2: 33:27

I don't mind, I don't. That's real though I don't know how to ask this yes, but because you said that at around seven or shortly after, your mama had a traumatic car accident. About how was dad's affair shortly after that, or was that a couple of years?

Speaker 4: 33:49

later, it was a couple of years later did that affect your mom? Did that the?

Speaker 2: 33:53

accident? Was she like wheelchair bound, or it's anything like that?

Speaker 4: 33:57

she was in the hospital for a really long time and then physical therapy. I mean, a car fell on top of her oh my god yeah, so she was even.

Speaker 1: 34:06

I mean, she's a miracle really oh my god, how did a car fall on top of her?

Speaker 4: 34:11

from really a mechanic a lift broke. It happens bro, I know, but oh my god, I actually love this that I'm like going back through my testimony, because now I realize that as adults, I've never spoken to my parents about the incident, and so I'm even like sharing it through the lens of like when I was a kid.

Speaker 3: 34:32

And what I was told right.

Speaker 4: 34:33

But like so in mexico I guess my mom with my cousins. She was going up a hill, oh okay and then she encouraged my cousins to get out. So they did right. They jumped out of the car and then it just yeah.

Speaker 1: 34:52

Like off-roading.

Speaker 3: 34:53

It flipped and it fell back. Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2: 34:56

Damn.

Speaker 3: 34:57

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 34:58

So she was, yeah, so she was in the hospital for a long time and I think I actually blocked out right. I guess trauma like I don't remember a lot of seeing her like in the hospital right like I know, I went to go see her, but I don't remember a lot yeah, I don't know like I know yeah that was probably something you did not like to go do.

Speaker 2: 35:17

Right, I'm sure my dad was in a race car wreck, yeah, when he got burned.

Speaker 1: 35:22

Uh car caught on fire and I remember I wasn't allowed to go into the burn unit because it was intensive care. But I remember standing outside the window of his room and, like trying to find his room, I found this kid who was roughly my age in a room next to him he was a lawnmower under a swamp cooler or something like that, and the lawnmower blew up.

Speaker 1: 35:47

And so for me, I used to mow lawns and to hear that I'm like I'll never forget that I'm 53 years old and I still remember that, that that kid blew up a lawnmower. You know what I mean? Yeah, but stuff like that is trauma, man, traumatic, you know what I mean it is yeah, so I.

Speaker 4: 36:06

so I don't remember a whole lot, but okay, um, but no, the affair happened, yeah, when I was like well, it must have happened sooner, because when I was 13 I found out, hey, like he had an affair, and this is your sister or half sister right um, and so I really did. I really like internally was like, yeah, man's there, and you know, I really had such good walls that I never like, I never fell in love until I met my husband.

Speaker 1: 36:26

So let me ask you this.

Speaker 2: 36:27

So let me ask you this I'm 40 and still single and never been in love.

Speaker 1: 36:31

dude, it's scary when you have a lot of Bring her Lord.

Speaker 2: 36:37

Praise the Lord, god, bring her Lord.

Speaker 1: 36:41

Amen. I believe in the Bible. The Bible says that you should stay with your mom and dad until you leave.

Speaker 2: 36:47

I've tried to leave multiple times through army and prison and addiction and just like keep coming back, keep coming back. Thank God for my family. He's my best friend that's my sign.

Speaker 1: 37:00

So let me ask you this when your mom and dad were still together, when the sister was presented to you, they were still together when the sister was presented to you.

Speaker 4: 37:06

Mm-hmm, really, they were still together. Wow, how did that?

Speaker 3: 37:08

So it was exposed.

Speaker 4: 37:09

Well, the woman that my dad had an affair with exposed, it, did your dad know that he had a kid up until that point. He did, he just kept it hidden.

Speaker 1: 37:19

Really Okay, all right, sorry, let me drag it out.

Speaker 4: 37:22

No, you're good yeah.

Speaker 1: 37:23

It just paints a better picture in my head for me, so I can understand what's going on.

Speaker 4: 37:26

Yeah, so that's kind of what happened. Yeah, like she just then decided, yeah.

Speaker 1: 37:30

Was, she like now, part of your life or something yeah. We ended up. Oh my God.

Speaker 4: 37:35

Because like yeah.

Speaker 1: 37:37

Wow, really, I mean we. What was she when they introduced you to her?

Speaker 2: 37:42

Yeah. Two oh so close and you were 13.

Speaker 1: 37:47

Really, wow, wow.

Speaker 4: 37:53

How'd that make you feel? I was really like devastated. I guess I didn't really get much time to process it through because my sister immediately like cried and was like so angry.

Speaker 3: 38:05

Oh, wow.

Speaker 4: 38:05

That I think, think I was.

Speaker 4: 38:06

I ran more to comfort her and then you see my mom, and so I think I just didn't really wow, process it a lot, it was like oh, there's a lot happening yeah so then internally it was more for me of like, yeah, no one's gonna, no one's gonna do that to me. Wow, like no one, literally like a man is never gonna drag me that way yeah um, so I had really good, really really really good walls and so, like during middle school and high school, you were just focused yeah, literally, literally, because the boys weren't distracting you but like actually yeah I mean I did have a boyfriend, but I was, so I think it was like right how we're talking about earlier hurt people, hurt people.

Speaker 1: 38:52

I was just really mean and very controlling and like we're gonna let him get close enough to hurt you like I'm always gonna hurt.

Speaker 4: 38:59

You can be super mean.

Speaker 2: 39:01

Oh yeah, it was horrible super Okay, I told you kids can be mean. They made a movie about it called.

Speaker 3: 39:09

Mean Girls I just had this visualization.

Speaker 1: 39:14

I'm like oh, poor dude, it was just a defense.

Speaker 4: 39:16

I know poor dude right.

Speaker 2: 39:17

He's probably healing from the trauma.

Speaker 4: 39:19

He's in recovery now.

Speaker 3: 39:20

He's in recovery.

Speaker 1: 39:21

He's in a circle talking about Norma.

Speaker 3: 39:25

This lady, Norma, in high school that girl ruined me. That's great.

Speaker 2: 39:33

She was mean. He did an inventory on you. There's some men's coming.

Speaker 4: 39:41

I'm glad we can laugh about that, you guys, for I think I think it, I think yeah, I think he had to heal from that because like I even one time um encouraged my friends to like push him in a pool like I just really I humiliated him so much so yeah he actually I know we laughed about it earlier, but I think he actually did have to like hopefully he did heal from hopefully.

Speaker 1: 40:01

Hopefully he did Heal from Amen. Hopefully he did Hopefully he's not somewhere strung out or something.

Speaker 3: 40:06

You know what I mean. Oh God Jesus.

Speaker 2: 40:09

We'll pray for you, brother. I just thank God that you went through your healing and recovery so now your husband doesn't experience any of that.

Speaker 4: 40:17

It's, yeah, amen, that's the redemption in God. Yeah, but what was interesting is that when I became a believer, I was like, oh, I have the gift of singleness because I have no desire and do you? Know what I mean, then like, and so I masked it with. I masked it with that. It is a gift.

Speaker 2: 40:35

Yeah, that's what I'm finding out right now in this season, because I it was like I got sober and then I got some purpose in my life and I got some things that I was able to start doing which gave me kind of a direction and a lane in life. But then it was like, dude, I want to help her and so I started looking and I couldn't. God has really had to change me and heal me from the inside. I'm all he's preparing me for her. I had no idea that celebrate recovery is going to help me lose 130 pounds. It's crazy, man, but these are the things that in recovery and working, working it works If you work it in your, in your ministry, do you go around and talk to young girls?

Speaker 4: 41:22

I do.

Speaker 1: 41:26

Do you talk about the gift of singleness and how that is important impurity?

Speaker 4: 41:28

impurity. No, I did, and yeah, and actually, um, yeah, and I've um, one time I actually brought my husband along to share too, because we, you know, when we started dating I really on our second date I was like, can we talk about sex?

Speaker 4: 41:43

but I just think, it's so real right, like I think and it doesn't have to be weird but it's like hey, like this is my goal, like if we're gonna date, like let's just really talk about it because, like I don't want to be, you know, sexually active and obviously if going to date, like, what boundaries are we going to put in place? That?

Speaker 2: 42:05

we can like agree with, so good.

Speaker 4: 42:07

Yeah, and I don't think there has to be any shame around that, right and so so good.

Speaker 1: 42:12

Well we need more women to counteract the voice that the world is giving.

Speaker 2: 42:17

Yeah, the less clothes is sexy when there's literally podcasts out there where women are talking about body counts.

Speaker 1: 42:25

Yeah, dude, we need another voice that is saying no, that's not the way, that's wicked, that's wild, that's all these different things. So, we need another voice out there for women who are telling these young girls it's okay to not be that way Respect yourself. We had another lady on Pastor least she, she it's on her heart. That's on her heart too, man, and I'm helping younger women these days.

Speaker 4: 42:53

Just need a different voice I agree, and I think another thing that's important to know about, like the purity conversation, is that I think we, you know, know, like in youth groups or you know a lot of teens, what they hear a lot is like well, if you wait, you're going to be, you know, god's going to reward you and it's going to be like so beautiful, right. And I think that we need to add a little bit more of like the like, some truth to that. Some truth is that, um, it could be hard, like, for example, in my instance, it was just very awkward and uncomfortable and because you know of, like, past traumas and like all this stuff, and I just didn't feel comfortable saying it's beautiful.

Speaker 1: 43:39

You're giving them a false sense of what the first experience is going to be yes, that's what I'm, yes because the first time can be traumatizing.

Speaker 2: 43:46

Yeah, man, it can hurt. It can be all these different things that it's not.

Speaker 4: 43:51

It's not always beautiful, it's true.

Speaker 1: 43:54

In time, it can become beautiful. Exactly, but the first one's not always going to be beautiful.

Speaker 4: 44:00

Okay, thank you for saying that, because, honestly, that's another thing that I'm passionate about is to just be real about that, and I think the beauty of waiting for marriage is it necessary, because you're right, right, it's uncomfortable, it hurts, there's like all the things.

Speaker 3: 44:12

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 44:13

Insecurities you know that I had because my husband had been, you know sexually active and so. I'm like oh, I don't know what I'm doing.

Speaker 3: 44:20

Am I good enough?

Speaker 2: 44:22

I'm like, oh, I don't know what. I'm doing, yes, like is he comparing me.

Speaker 4: 44:24

Oh Jesus and so I think the beauty of like is like, you know what the beauty is, obeying God, and the beauty is that we had to figure it out together and like communicate and then make it so good right.

Speaker 2: 44:42

I've heard pastors say that swings are okay in the bedroom. Whatever you got to do, man, have fun. It's the married bedroom. Dude, I'd like to meet that pastor.

Speaker 1: 44:55

Holy crap. I think the beauty that they're trying to convey is the honoring.

Speaker 4: 45:01

Yes, honoring God, but they don't say it that way Honoring God, honoring yourself?

Speaker 1: 45:04

Yes, honoring God, but they don't say it that way Honoring God, honoring yourself? Yes, you know, we can honor God, but there's also honoring yourself in the process of that it's loving myself. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2: 45:15

Too many young boys. They are too many young men.

Speaker 1: 45:19

So listen, yeah, listen here.

Speaker 2: 45:20

Man.

Speaker 1: 45:22

When we talk about marriage and we know that God is a God of blood covenants. Okay, now there is a reason why, when a man and woman come together, there's blood Yep, blood Yep.

Speaker 3: 45:38

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 45:38

It's literally. The Bible talks about a man and woman become one, yep, the same way that we become one with God, we need to become one with God through blood covenants. Now we come through them, through the blood of Jesus. It's still blood, yeah. So there's a reason why that is so important, and the beauty of it is in honoring God is that when that blood covenant is made, it's sanctified, it's holy. It's what God intended it to be. It's what God intended it to be. It's literally a blood covenant. Yeah, you know what I mean. Can God redeem somebody who's had sex?

Speaker 3: 46:08

before marriage yes, he can you know what I mean?

Speaker 1: 46:10

Yeah, but if you are honored and you do wait, and you wait till that moment, and it's sanctified in that way, and it is truly a blood covenant man.

Speaker 2: 46:19

The anointing, the blessing, all the different things that come with that.

Speaker 1: 46:25

It's like can the anointing, the blessing, all the different things that come with that. Can God redeem that for someone?

Speaker 2: 46:27

who's done that? Yes, of course he can, but if you do it right the first time and it is done that way, god, I think that's why it's so important for parents to parent their kids and teach them this stuff, especially with young men, because there's too many young men that believe that how many girls I'm having sex with determines how much of a man I am. Again, and that's the voice of the world.

Speaker 1: 46:55

The voice of the world, the voice I heard growing up yeah, the measure of a man is how much sex he has yeah, I mean, and it's we need to we, as men, need to change that and you, as you and your sisters, as women, need to change the narrative for the women that, hey, it's an honor, something to honor yourself and we need to change it for men to say it's not about that yeah, it's about getting to that point where it's a truly a blood covenant with, with a woman.

Speaker 4: 47:20

You know I and I think the other benefit too about, you know, waiting is really like, because my husband and I weren't like you know, making out like crazy.

Speaker 3: 47:36

Right, Like all these hours.

Speaker 4: 47:37

Instead, those hours were spent us really knowing each other at our core, oh, my God Friendship. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 47:45

So good.

Speaker 4: 47:46

Yeah, were there times that you know there was lust or temptation?

Speaker 3: 47:50

Yes, but we were saying no to it right To say yes, to God or to say yes, to like what you're saying, right and so.

Speaker 4: 47:55

I think we got to know each other so intimately, like emotionally, spiritually, intellectually, because, honestly, if you're not making out, you're really like talking doing things together.

Speaker 1: 48:11

Right like from experience, man. So good a relationship, a relationship that is based upon sex. At some point we'll have to find something else to be based upon because, eventually sex becomes boring or dull or whatever. And now what do we have left? Because I really don't know you, because it was just really about sex. And and now what do we have left? Because I really don't know you, because it was just really about sex and so now, what do we do?

Speaker 1: 48:29

and you know what I mean. So the way that you're doing, and now you have friendship, you have, you know, understanding of who each other is, you have all these different things that the relationship is based and founded upon, that sex is now the bonus. But when sex is the driving force of the relationship, at some point there comes a time when it becomes less fulfilling, it becomes less satisfying. And now what?

Speaker 4: 48:50

right now what you know what I mean. I agree and it ruins the relationship and I remember, like once we got married, right like a month later, thinking like I married, who I dated? Yeah, right like, but but like it was that, but you were at a different place.

Speaker 2: 49:08

You were at a different place.

Speaker 1: 49:09

People get married and don't realize it's that. Oh wow, I was dating that. Yeah, now I'm married to that holy crap.

Speaker 3: 49:17

You know what I mean, because they don't spend that time they don't spend.

Speaker 1: 49:20

You know what I mean. Usually it's let's go out, have fun, have some drinks, have a good old time and go home have have sex and then drop you off and then now you're actually married and wait, you're sober. I'm what. I can't stand you. You know what I mean. And it's yeah, so it's real. We got way off track.

Speaker 2: 49:37

It's okay. I love rabbit trails. That was. That's a good one Period.

Speaker 1: 49:41

Thank you for being so open and willing to have that conversation. I appreciate that. Thank you very much.

Speaker 4: 49:46

Yeah, I mean, I think again. Right, it's just in the sake of like, as people like, we know that whoever listens to this needs to hear what we talked about, even if it's rabbit trails, right? Amen.

Speaker 1: 49:56

God, holy Spirit, led conversations. Yeah, so you're 13. You get introduced to your new two-year-old sister. Things just kind of get a little weird.

Speaker 2: 50:06

You determine that I'm not going to ever let that happen to me.

Speaker 3: 50:11

You're going through high school. Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2: 50:13

You do have a boyfriend.

Speaker 3: 50:15

Did school get better for you? Yeah, did you learn English. Yes.

Speaker 2: 50:18

Okay.

Speaker 1: 50:21

How old were you when you started to pick it up?

Speaker 4: 50:23

I need to recover from that. Did you learn English?

Speaker 2: 50:28

I did. I'm speaking it now. You're going to get a few of those from me, man.

Speaker 1: 50:37

Either that or Holy Spirit really translating for us brother.

Speaker 3: 50:41

Oh, my God dude. This is great dude.

Speaker 1: 50:45

So good you are speaking English right right we're not being holy spirit translated here, that's no, I, I did learn english how old were you when you started to pick it up?

Speaker 4: 50:57

oh, like, really well, picking it up, probably like by the time I was 10, I actually learned a lot by watching sesame street, really I love that.

Speaker 2: 51:05

Yeah, like I'd come home 10,. I actually learned a lot by watching Sesame Street. Really I love that.

Speaker 4: 51:07

Yeah, like I'd come home and I just like absorb a lot of like Sesame. I had to work 10 times harder, right?

Speaker 1: 51:12

Totally To really like learn yeah.

Speaker 4: 51:14

And I mean I wanted to.

Speaker 1: 51:16

Would you like repeat what Sesame Street was saying, like say it.

Speaker 4: 51:20

Yeah, yes.

Speaker 3: 51:27

And then I think you just end up like absorbing it because it's like really repetitive, right, and then they use colors and it's just repetitive so you're like.

Speaker 4: 51:30

Eventually your brain catches like oh, that's you know, did you teach yourself

Speaker 1: 51:36

or really wow I did wow okay, your mom and dad ever learned english my dad did really okay, really. Okay, wow, good for him, man. Yeah, my dad did that must have been hard, my mom, didn't my mom's like yeah, pass Nice.

Speaker 3: 51:50

But my dad does.

Speaker 4: 51:52

So, yeah, so in high school, yeah, so I learned English. I did.

Speaker 1: 51:57

Play any sports.

Speaker 4: 51:59

No.

Speaker 1: 51:59

I was a theater person.

Speaker 4: 52:00

Really, yeah, I was a theater person.

Speaker 3: 52:02

Really yeah, all right.

Speaker 2: 52:04

Yeah. Person of the arts yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: 52:07

Dancing acting all the things. No, I don't sing. That's the only thing I'm not good at, but I did acting, dancing and then kind of being in that world. Right, it's very like image-based.

Speaker 3: 52:20

I mean, there's also talent, but very image-based. Yeah.

Speaker 4: 52:23

So then that's how I actually developed like an eating disorder.

Speaker 2: 52:28

Oh, really Like bulimia, yeah, wow. In high school yeah.

Speaker 4: 52:37

Were you? I hate to ask this. Were you a big child? No, but what ended up happening is that I mean well, at least in theater, right, like there's only.

Speaker 1: 52:44

Or was it just this persona that you had to look a certain way?

Speaker 4: 52:47

It kind of originally. It started because really like in theater, how that works is like you get characters based on your appearance really.

Speaker 1: 53:03

I mean they try to say like there's some talent and there's some truth to that, but it's primarily like we couldn't have like Raggedy Ann running around. Yeah, yeah, 200 pounds. You know what I mean, Jesus, but yeah but I mean, it wouldn't fit the role. I mean he's keeping it real. That's just how it is he does, but Okay.

Speaker 4: 53:16

So, the movies, yeah, the movies, that's all, it is Right and so? No, it wasn't that. It was just that like there was a role I really wanted. And so my teacher saying, if you were, you would have just been like five pounds lighter.

Speaker 3: 53:29

No way, but it's just a brutal world. Right.

Speaker 4: 53:33

So and then?

Speaker 1: 53:35

think about models, man how they.

Speaker 2: 53:37

Yeah, man it's that's a pressure that a high school girl doesn't need.

Speaker 4: 53:42

Yeah, I did not need that, so I definitely was like, okay, I think I can do that. Um, wow, so I, yeah. But I ended up finding out that it ended ended up become like an addiction for me. Aside from the image, right, it was also like it felt like it was the one thing I had control over were you starving or vomiting, or what were you doing? So no, actually, with bulimia it's like you binge eat. Like you eat a lot and then throw up All right and then abuse laxatives.

Speaker 1: 54:12

Yeah, it's a whole thing.

Speaker 3: 54:13

It's a whole yeah.

Speaker 4: 54:14

Yeah, it's a, yeah it's, yeah, it's a really heavy addiction.

Speaker 1: 54:19

I saw a story one time when a person actually willfully took a tapeworm so they could stay. Oh, yeah, yeah, I know what you're talking yeah, and I was like, why the hell would you?

Speaker 4: 54:29

do that, well, it starts off. Here's the thing that's interesting about the eviction of eating disorder. Right, it's like it first starts off with like oh, it's just because of like image or because of like body, but it's like deeper than that it becomes like a control thing, right, like a release, like it feels like basically with like bulimia.

Speaker 4: 54:48

What's crazy is like you just eat so fast, like right, you're just chugging all this food down and then you just let it out, so in a way, it also feels like a release yeah, kind of like cutting yeah, yeah yeah, so would you eat that much and then feel guilty and and like, like it was just, it's just a cycle, Like you just binge. I mean that's like the nature of that addiction, right? It's like I'm just trying to understand the mindset. You know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 55:11

I like to understand the mindset of certain addictions, because I don't know much about eating disorders.

Speaker 2: 55:15

Not many people talk about it.

Speaker 1: 55:16

I'm trying to understand the mindset of that. You know what I mean.

Speaker 4: 55:19

Yeah, well, primarily, the mindset is just like basically, like you think, it's always about well, I just want to like lose, you know, weight, or I don't want to absorb, like, the calories, and yeah.

Speaker 1: 55:32

I literally had somebody come up to me and ask me will I really lose weight if I smoke meth?

Speaker 3: 55:37

I'm like, yeah, you will, oh my God, you'll lose, your job, your car, your kid You'll lose everything.

Speaker 1: 55:43

Your family, your money, your house. But yeah, you'll lose some weight too. I was like why Jesus Go exercise?

Speaker 2: 55:51

Don't do drugs. That's crazy.

Speaker 3: 55:53

You know who.

Speaker 1: 55:54

Christine Day is no, she's like the founder of Crossroads. Oh okay, she used meth to try to lose weight too. Oh okay. And found herself just trapped in that addiction.

Speaker 4: 56:05

you know, I mean yeah, no, that that was my addiction. And then also I started cutting. Well, I started cutting after when I was like 15, because then, when I was 15, um, my uncle sexually abused me oh, damn damn family again. I know I'm sorry, sis um and so after that, then I just started cutting, because I remember thinking like I got to feel something Mm-hmm. Yeah, I felt so numb.

Speaker 3: 56:34

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 56:34

And that was like a release and yeah, so Damn. Started cutting and then, when I was 18, I actually got a scholarship for theater.

Speaker 1: 56:43

Oh wow, because I was really good on stage. Wow, where were you cutting at?

Speaker 4: 56:49

Arms, thighs.

Speaker 3: 56:53

Arms on stage.

Speaker 2: 56:53

Where were you cutting at arms, thighs, really, anywhere, that it wouldn't be like I was trying to hide it for sure, right of course um, so yeah, thighs, arms, all the things and then did your parents know that you were going through a bulimia or cutting or anything, or is this something that you were able to keep hidden from people?

Speaker 4: 57:07

No, I kept it really well hidden.

Speaker 2: 57:09

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 57:09

Okay.

Speaker 1: 57:10

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 57:10

And then, when I was 18, I got a scholarship for theater. So I won a scholarship. And when I went to college, what?

Speaker 1: 57:19

college, eastern Arizona College. It's in Safford. I thought you were going to say Wildcats, oh, no, I was going to have to kick you off the show. No, I'm just kidding, we don't talk about that school down south Eastern Arizona College, that's where I got the scholarship Go Sun Devils. Just so you know, we're in recovery for sports addiction.

Speaker 2: 57:38

I'm starting that group.

Speaker 4: 57:43

So, I get there, and it completely, I mean just like every addiction, right, everybody has a rock bottom. And it completely, I mean just like every addiction, right, everybody has a rock bottom. So my rock bottom became that like well one. I started throwing up blood Because after you do it right, that's all I ever did. Your esophagus, your stomach, oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 58:02

That acid? Oh yeah, it just eats it.

Speaker 4: 58:04

Yeah, was that college in Nogales.

Speaker 1: 58:07

No, that was in Thatcher when I went to.

Speaker 4: 58:09

Eastern Arizona College. So I'm in Safford, away from my parents.

Speaker 1: 58:14

I'm in Safford small town.

Speaker 4: 58:15

It's a small Mormon town actually.

Speaker 1: 58:18

Minor town. When I was in prison, we used to have to go there and work Thatcher. What was Thatcher?

Speaker 4: 58:24

Oh yeah, you were in prison Safford, that area.

Speaker 3: 58:26

Yeah, that's where I was at. I was locked up in staff.

Speaker 2: 58:28

Yeah, that's where you're in prison.

Speaker 1: 58:29

Yeah, mama go visit him yeah oh wow, I was, I was there too I got released from there and went to the was it jb's and right there in town I had an all you can eat breakfast. Oh yeah, loved it.

Speaker 4: 58:41

Yeah, it's a small town, but I mean I, I got a scholarship there, so I went there, but like I started throwing up a lot, but then also also I started I mean it became so nonstop, like the binging and throwing up that. Then I started, like collecting it in boxes. I mean it just we were sick. Wow, I get to that level.

Speaker 1: 59:02

And so I remember thinking I got to ask I'm sorry, go what was the mindset behind the boxes? Is that to hide it?

Speaker 4: 59:10

So that's a good question. So the reason why that.

Speaker 1: 59:12

Why not just in a trash? Can I mean why?

Speaker 4: 59:15

No, that's a good question, because what ended up happening is that my roommate, like I, started getting kind of bad at being able to hide it like in the toilet. They would be like is somebody sick all the time?

Speaker 1: 59:24

Like there's in so.

Speaker 4: 59:25

Like there's in. So I noticed that, like, no matter how much I tried to, I'd always miss something.

Speaker 1: 59:31

And so they started to catch it and I'm like, oh, they're going to start to catch me.

Speaker 3: 59:33

So it was like my way to hide, yeah, so it's just sick, yeah, like.

Speaker 4: 59:38

I'd come in with like a box and so I'd had it in like the laundry room and then all of a sudden I'm staring at a pile and I'm like you're sick, you know like you're, you realize that probably I did. Oh wow, myself, like I think, just because right, how much did you weigh at that?

Speaker 1: 59:57

point. I was probably like 98 pounds.

Speaker 2: 59:58

Oh my god really yeah, because she she is littler, you are a little woman, so how tall are you?

Speaker 1: 1:00:08

five, four. Yeah, oh, you are smart.

Speaker 2: 1:00:09

I was like yeah, she's shorter than me. Bro, you got high heels on I'm always the shortest one.

Speaker 1: 1:00:14

I'm like she was tall when I shook her hand.

Speaker 4: 1:00:16

Bro, my bad no, I have high heels, all right I'm usually the shortest one in the room I think in addiction we all have that moment where we realize right, but I think for me and my particular like addiction. I had seeing a pile of boxes was my moment.

Speaker 2: 1:00:34

That was your rock bottom.

Speaker 4: 1:00:36

Yeah, like you said that was for me.

Speaker 1: 1:00:38

How long were you doing it for?

Speaker 2: 1:00:42

What she said three years, 15 to 15. At that point I'm 18, 19.

Speaker 4: 1:00:48

Wow, it was a long time and I never stopped, so I think that was really like.

Speaker 1: 1:00:52

In those three years, did you ever had a moment where you were like good for a little bit and then went back to it, or was it just a constant three year, no constant, it's a lifestyle.

Speaker 4: 1:01:05

It's a lifestyle. Yeah, it's something you live with some addiction.

Speaker 1: 1:01:07

I'm I'm pretty prevalent at addictions. I get a lot of them.

Speaker 2: 1:01:11

Some of them I just like I don't know where I was or what season of my life, sis, but there was a season in my life where I would literally gorge myself and I would eat so much that my shoulder would hurt and I would literally go in the bathroom and stick my finger down. I don't know if it was you or mom, but somebody I don't remember who was like dude, are you eating and going and throwing up? I'm like, yeah, man, I don't feel good, I'm eating too much, so it was a whole, like the way it felt to be full yeah, I just love yes and then release it wasn't the it's addicting I know it's so weird, crazy

Speaker 1: 1:01:47

it's. I'm not putting it down, I'm just no.

Speaker 4: 1:01:49

No, I know you're not, I'm just saying I, I, I recognize that it's like yeah, for some people it's like how's that cool, god designed me to kind of god designed me that I have to understand things, and there's just some things I just can't understand and it pisses me off and like anxiety, I'm like I don't get it. Help me understand you know what I mean so I think it's really hard to understand an eating disorder.

Speaker 2: 1:02:08

I think but the big thing for people that are listening and people that are watching, the big traumatic moment was when you were 15 and your uncle abused you. That's what set you off into the cutting, the bulimia, the all that other stuff. It was a way to control, a way to cope, a way to god kind of take your life back from that moment.

Speaker 4: 1:02:35

I mean for me it's crazy to say that, but that's really exactly what it is, yeah I mean yes and actually, statistically speaking, to a lot of women that have gone through sexual abuse also develop an eating disorder or cutting, so like they're correlated, but because it's like also hatred towards your body and there's just so many layers.

Speaker 1: 1:02:53

You think that's because, man, okay, I want to make sure I say this without it's, I'm good I know, but for myself I don't want to say anything stupid. Do you think that's a way of like I'm gonna make myself ugly so this doesn't happen again? Damn, or I'm gonna man I'm gonna make myself a way to where nobody will find me attracted enough that they'll want to do that to me again. You know what?

Speaker 4: 1:03:17

I mean, is that he's right? Is that a no?

Speaker 1: 1:03:20

you're yeah, you're right you know what I mean, because obviously someone found you attractive enough to force himself upon you, unfortunately. But that is the sense of if I make myself ugly, this won't happen again. If I make myself look a certain way, or if I have cuts on my body or whatever, nobody will do that to me. Do you think that's a mindset that victims that have that happen, that they do go through those kind of things?

Speaker 4: 1:03:46

Yes, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 1:03:47

I can see that that was good as soon as you said that I'm like yeah, that resonates yeah. That sucks.

Speaker 4: 1:03:57

And I think I mean back to your point of like that was a very traumatic experience because at the same time I mean kind of like the same scenario happened where so this uncle of mine was really worshipped by my family because he was a lawyer.

Speaker 2: 1:04:10

that, oh it gets worse. They all look up to him.

Speaker 1: 1:04:15

Oh God, he was successful. He was all these yes.

Speaker 4: 1:04:18

And a millionaire because really he was a lawyer that defended drug dealers.

Speaker 1: 1:04:23

Oh wow, and like men from cartels.

Speaker 4: 1:04:26

So he was loaded, oh God men from cartels, so he was loaded, so he had power and control and money and just thought he was yeah, and you just wait. I actually pressed charges against him but but um, he, he, um, but yeah, and so he was really like looked up to and my family was really close and so I knew that like I couldn't up to and my family was really close and so I knew that like I couldn't trust my mom because of basically what had happened when I was seven.

Speaker 4: 1:04:54

So instead I brought it up more to her in the sense of like and I remember when I brought it up to her I was like I'm telling you this not because I I'm asking you to like, defend me or do anything. I'm just telling you because I want to stop going to like the family gatherings yeah, right, like I just um and she was like yeah no, like people are gonna suspect like it was oh my god, they made you go.

Speaker 2: 1:05:17

Oh, I'm sorry, sis so then.

Speaker 4: 1:05:21

But so my dad never knew about it. And then so like, fast forward, right? Okay, so I'm 18, I'm in college, blah blah, so I reached that rock bottom. So then I actually was like yeah, what'd you I want? To go well. I actually, I actually went on like the computer and I typed on google like bulimia, because I knew.

Speaker 4: 1:05:39

Like that's what it was right, but I was like, well, I just need to, I might have it right, like you're still kind of, and so I read it and I just wept because I was, like, that's me like that's I'm and it's out of my control and all this stuff, and so I actually took a bus and went to rehab. Like I found a rehab that would pay for you know that was covered under my dad's insurance.

Speaker 3: 1:06:01

It was under my dad's insurance so.

Speaker 4: 1:06:03

I took a bus go to rehab. Wait, but you said your dad didn't oh, he didn't know about what happened to you at 15 with my uncle.

Speaker 2: 1:06:12

At this point in life you hit your rock bottom. You realize I'm sick yes, I need help, so you go to your family mom, dad. I need help. This is what's going on.

Speaker 4: 1:06:23

I need to go to rehab yeah, and so I, I brought up rehab, but my, my parents were like well, just do like therapy like don't do rehab.

Speaker 3: 1:06:31

So I actually didn't listen to them and I got on a bus and went to good good like I just I don't.

Speaker 4: 1:06:37

I'm like it's all god right, because it's like again. I'm like 19. What 19 year olds go you know what?

Speaker 1: 1:06:43

yeah?

Speaker 4: 1:06:44

yeah, it sucks. You're not gonna help me, but I'm gonna get on the bus and go to rehab. Yeah right like man, so I just did it, I'd like I.

Speaker 2: 1:06:51

So I went to rehab and it was really like eye-opening because, well, first of all, I'm the youngest one yeah, literally like because I'm 19 and everyone's in like their late 30s, for like it's something they've done their whole entire life where'd you go tucson no, oxnard, california, oh really wow sometimes, in order to grow, you got to go and, yeah, you had to get out of the people, get out of the situations, get out of everything you knew and experience a totally new experience yeah, and I think what really um impact?

Speaker 4: 1:07:25

I mean there was good therapy and groups and all that, but I would say the thing that impacted me the most was just like do I really want, do I like? Do I really want this to be like my lifestyle? Right, because I would hear a lot of the like. A lot of the women, too kind of took me under their wing to say like I wish I was here when I was 19 yeah and then they just gave me all this counsel of like, hey, like I, like I can't even have kids.

Speaker 4: 1:07:49

Wow, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 1:07:51

Like I'm married and this is affecting our marriage, like or just like you know, you literally got to see and meet these women at 39, older, 30s, earlier 40s, as a 19 year old that have probably done everything you were doing and probably fell into addiction and drugs or who knows. So you're literally seeing these women talk about their life experience and you're like, oh, if I keep going this way in the next 20 years, this is who I'm gonna be exactly, and it was kind of really powerful, because I don't think we get that opportunity a lot right because you hear that, like we try to tell young people that but we're in a healthy space.

Speaker 4: 1:08:31

I'm hearing it from on health, like right there on healthy literally like girl like yeah I can't even get pregnant because I love this addiction so much. I can't let it go like you. You should stop and I'm like oh man, like I lived, it, I saw it.

Speaker 1: 1:08:47

What better therapy than that? Testimony man you can't get a doctor to impact you like that. They can give you a scientific facts and all this other stuff, but they have this girl's life story.

Speaker 2: 1:08:58

Yeah, that's why these testimonies are so powerful man.

Speaker 1: 1:09:02

In rcr we have a couple young guys and god, we love having them.

Speaker 2: 1:09:05

Yeah, I always tell them, dude, if I was 19 or 20 and got it at your age, it's like man years of hell. So now we get to be the old guys so we get what you're talking about stupid choices.

Speaker 1: 1:09:16

We get what you're talking about by having older people who are in your addiction tell you this is not what you want, you know, I mean yeah, and I, I mean I got to watch them.

Speaker 4: 1:09:25

Unhealthy right? Yeah, like wanting freedom so badly, but they're like I'm so trapped and I'm like, oh, so I'm gonna be trapped forever, like it was just awful, um, but that that did um impact me, and then when I and so then I left rehab were you there? Um.

Speaker 2: 1:09:42

I was there for nine months nine months wow, that's lengthy she says a 30-day rehab, but you were there for nine months.

Speaker 3: 1:09:49

Yeah, really.

Speaker 2: 1:09:50

You had to put in some work.

Speaker 1: 1:09:57

You had to really go through some healing and recovery. So you haven't heard anything about God since you were seven.

Speaker 2: 1:10:02

You just had encounters, but there's no church, there's no community.

Speaker 4: 1:10:08

Yeah, I'm still not there um but then, um, so I will, we'll get there, right. So then, basically, when I left rehab, I go back to live with my parents, I kind of restart right like okay let me restart, rebuild my life, blah, blah, blah, do all the things and you're healthy.

Speaker 2: 1:10:25

You're not. You're not bulimic, um, you're not cutting at this point. You're ready to try living a good life yeah, like I'm ready.

Speaker 4: 1:10:33

and then they're like, okay, so, and then I told them I was like okay, I think I'm ready to go like live with my sister and go back to college again, like try it, like let's start over, um. And then the moment that I like relapsed again with like bulimia and cutting right here goes all the things.

Speaker 4: 1:10:53

Then I actually that's when I became like suicidal, because to me it's like I already understand Right, like all these, like the people that I was around in rehab, and I'm like my chances of really actually finding freedom are really low, like I just like think about it like right, like rationally in my head, like yeah, like the chances of me recovering are really like low and I don't want to live like this, like I genuinely this is, even though like right addiction has, like it becomes a coping skill. It's also torture, oh yeah, it's also hell yeah oh yeah, it's also hell, okay, and it's torment and I really like. For me it was so tormenting as well, and so it's like I just wanted to live a regular I just wanted to be free, yeah, but like really free, not partially free, not half free.

Speaker 2: 1:11:40

So was anything in the rehab for the nine months? Was there any spirituality or any jesus or any god in there, or was it all like medicine and learning and teaching?

Speaker 4: 1:11:51

Oh, okay, it was really all that I mean there were some people that like talked about God, but it was very, like you know, very woke, because they would say higher power.

Speaker 3: 1:12:01

Okay, you know like it's still not God. Yeah, just higher power, higher power.

Speaker 2: 1:12:06

A tree, yeah, a doorknob, exactly Okay, but I just higher power. A tree, yeah, a doorknob, okay, but I'll take the doorknob off.

Speaker 4: 1:12:12

Oh, forgive me, forgive me, jesus, jesus, yeah it was that weird stuff okay so then I was like, okay, well, I actually rather die, wow, like really. And so I planned, damn, I planned like I had this whole like suicide plan. My sister was my roommate at this point like we're roommates and she was gonna go out of town. So I was like, perfect, like when she leaves, so I have this whole plan set out, I go and buy like a lot of like pills and I mix it with like alcohol and um, and so yeah, so I uh, so I mixed it with alcohol, that stuff. And then all I remember because I did actually completely like black out right is that like at one point I woke up in the middle of it and I was like throwing up.

Speaker 1: 1:13:03

And I heard a knock on the door. What kind of pills did you get? What kind of what? What kind of pills did you take?

Speaker 4: 1:13:08

So I actually went to like the and I bought like a combination of like.

Speaker 2: 1:13:13

Sleeping pills and Tylenol, and oh God.

Speaker 1: 1:13:17

Oh God, not to make you sick.

Speaker 2: 1:13:21

And throw up Jesus, amen, thank God. Thank God, because you really could have hurt yourself.

Speaker 4: 1:13:27

I really did think like mixing it with alcohol would be like pass out. I mean, but it was a lot, it was like I mean I completely passed out, like totally blacked out, but like I heard a knock on the door so I couldn't like walk, so I crawled to open the door and then like that's all I remember and then I woke up like in a psych ward.

Speaker 2: 1:13:52

Really, did you like? Did you write a note to your sister, or anything like that?

Speaker 3: 1:13:55

to your family.

Speaker 2: 1:13:56

No, you were just done.

Speaker 4: 1:13:57

You just wanted to damn who was at the door I well I know now that it was like a police officer oh wow doing like a check

Speaker 3: 1:14:08

because A welfare check, a welfare check, oh wow.

Speaker 4: 1:14:10

And it was actually the cashier at the dollar store, because I remember I was wearing like sunglasses and I was like crying, and apparently I mean. Later on I found out that she actually like followed me.

Speaker 2: 1:14:20

Oh wow, oh, my God, wow, thank God.

Speaker 4: 1:14:24

Mm-hmm, and then yeah, so she must have kind of like discerned right. Like that it was because, yeah, like I'm wearing sunglasses crying and then there's like all these like random pills, oh wow dude Wow.

Speaker 3: 1:14:37

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:14:37

That was literally an angel. Mm-hmm, my God, sis.

Speaker 4: 1:14:41

Yeah, so I like woke up in a psych ward and then. So then I was like court ordered like treatment okay because it was like I, they're like you really actually wanted to die right like it wasn't like. Sometimes it's a like a cry for help or like in my case it was like they actually know they're like you actually really wanted to kill yourself, so you have to be on like court order treatment get some therapy and some intense counseling.

Speaker 2: 1:15:12

And yeah it, you got to start talking about some things yeah, so then I go through like court order treatment um did it help you no no because, it wasn't jesus, that's right.

Speaker 1: 1:15:25

so, like anything, if you ain't ready, it doesn't't and then if also, yeah, but it was, it was whatever.

Speaker 4: 1:15:30

But during that time period I met somebody that was going to like church and they kept inviting me to church and I and I never went.

Speaker 2: 1:15:40

But then one time I went because Are you still in Oxnard or are you over? Oh sorry, we haven't updated.

Speaker 4: 1:15:44

I'm in Tucson now. Remember, because I went with my parents and then I was like oh, I want to go live with my sister, so that was in Tucson she's in.

Speaker 2: 1:15:52

Tucson Okay.

Speaker 4: 1:15:52

So she was in Tucson, so now I'm in Tucson.

Speaker 2: 1:15:55

She's going to U of A. Yeah, god bless her. Go Sun Devils Okay.

Speaker 3: 1:16:05

All right.

Speaker 4: 1:16:05

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:16:07

So, she's going there and she's doing good.

Speaker 4: 1:16:09

yeah, okay but then later she wasn't, but we'll get to that yeah, uh, but then, um, I just I decide to go to church, but with this friend that kept inviting me because, um, I actually drove, drove drunk one time and then got in a car accident, um, and the person then just was like, let's just leave. He's like, because I don't have insurance, you know, blah, blah, I just call it a day like my car was hurt, but not his. He's like it was your fault, so let's just call it a day.

Speaker 3: 1:16:40

And I'm like yep, I'm drunk, so let's call it a day. This never happened and then I actually got like a concussion.

Speaker 4: 1:16:48

Oh wow, and so I go to the hospital and like I'm wearing this neck brace, and then I was like you know what? This never happened. And then I actually got like a concussion, oh wow. And so I go to the hospital and like I'm wearing this neck brace, and then I was like you know what? I think I might go to church.

Speaker 3: 1:16:55

Wow.

Speaker 4: 1:16:57

Like right with like a friend that I had met through like treatment, so I go to church with him and it's a very like lively right, Like Pentecostal those that dance and take their shoes off and you're like wow, they take their shoes off.

Speaker 2: 1:17:15

I do, man. Sometimes God tells me during worship this is a holy moment. I'm like, okay, shoes, come off.

Speaker 4: 1:17:21

man, it's real, there's nothing wrong with taking their shoes off. I'm just saying when it's your first time you're like wow, they're really excited about God.

Speaker 1: 1:17:31

I've got to ask him a question. Okay, why does the holy moment mean you've got to take your shoes off?

Speaker 2: 1:17:36

It's just. It's the same thing in the Bible. Man God told Moses this is a holy moment and he takes his shoes off and goes up the mountain.

Speaker 1: 1:17:44

I'm like that blew me away Just sometimes.

Speaker 2: 1:17:47

God's different with everybody. My relationship, man, my worship with my king is just different. It's unique. It's just different, man, and it's my time with my king, amen. Nobody else is in the room during my worship, man.

Speaker 1: 1:18:03

It's just me and Jesus. I just had to know why the shoes came off, man yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:18:07

Well, I mean, I loved it. The shoes came off, man. Yeah, well, I'm I mean I loved it.

Speaker 2: 1:18:12

I mean I'm, I'm, I'm there now. Okay, I love it. So this is your first experience in a church with god, where it's not so traditional and quiet and a catholic church this is. This is a little bit different.

Speaker 4: 1:18:25

Holy spirit yeah, and so they actually had. Uh, I mean, I'm, I'm like wearing a neck brace. And I was actually in pain. They have flag people.

Speaker 2: 1:18:32

Yes, Flag people. As long as none of the old ladies are jumping on the back of the pews, we're good.

Speaker 1: 1:18:39

The flag dancers are beautiful man I mean, it was all the things.

Speaker 2: 1:18:42

It's an expression, it was all the things I was like oh okay cool.

Speaker 4: 1:18:53

But like oh okay cool, um, but they actually had then like of course right, like hey, if you need prayer for anything, and and then they start releasing words, right, and so it was about like physical healing. But I wasn't the only one right. I was like well, they're probably talking about me because I'm wearing a neck brace okay, but I was like I went up for prayer, right, right and I mean, there was other people too. Okay, and I get healed From. Right there From Well I couldn't move my neck without pain.

Speaker 2: 1:19:15

Okay.

Speaker 4: 1:19:17

Without pain or like anything like that right.

Speaker 2: 1:19:21

Wow, and so I get healed. So they pray for you. Write them in there. They pray for you and say, take your brace off and check and see if they know they didn't do that.

Speaker 4: 1:19:30

They literally like just prayed for me.

Speaker 3: 1:19:32

OK.

Speaker 4: 1:19:33

And then they just like walked away. And then I was like. Well, I wonder if it like worked. Because, like I, remember, in the prayer, right, they're kind of like you know, healing, right, and like you know, they're basically declaring healing over, yeah, yeah, and then they really just moved on to the next person and I was like, uh, I wonder if it like works. I start like moving my neck and I'm able, I feel no pain, and so then I start crying and I was like, should I take my shoes off?

Speaker 2: 1:20:02

like I don't know. I love this dude. Yes, you should.

Speaker 4: 1:20:06

This is a holy moment so I just start praise god, so much gratitude and like joy of jesus. Well, and then, because you, you're also understand grace right.

Speaker 2: 1:20:22

It's like another marker, yeah, another marker for you everything that you've been doing and all the identity stuff you're battling and image issues that girls go through to be at this altar in pain and hurting, and then for God to be dependable, faithful and to work. It's like man after everything I've done and all the back.

Speaker 4: 1:20:48

I know that feeling. I'm literally like I have this because I got drunk.

Speaker 2: 1:20:53

And you healed me yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:20:54

Yes.

Speaker 2: 1:20:55

Man, that's our God. He's so good, did you feel that love again.

Speaker 1: 1:20:58

I did Like you did when you were seven.

Speaker 4: 1:21:00

I did.

Speaker 1: 1:21:00

Really yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:21:02

And what are we? 19, 20 at this point, Back with your sister in tucson at that point. Yeah, I'm about 20 now my 20 um, and so you're drinking before 21 because you got a drinking and you're being a bad girl, so it was just drinking. Did you ever dabble in any drugs or coke or anything like that?

Speaker 1: 1:21:24

no, no. Let me ask you this you said that you stopped throwing up and cutting yourself. Did you replace that with drinking?

Speaker 4: 1:21:32

Well, no, I was still doing all the things she relapsed.

Speaker 3: 1:21:36

Yeah, because I relapsed, I went back into it.

Speaker 4: 1:21:39

I relapsed and I got back into it.

Speaker 1: 1:21:42

Why the alcohol then?

Speaker 4: 1:21:44

Because I started clubbing. Oh right, it's not fun if you don't drink?

Speaker 1: 1:21:49

No, of course not, it sucks.

Speaker 2: 1:21:52

No, it's actually better.

Speaker 3: 1:21:53

I mean, yeah, I prefer not to drink. I'm just saying back in that time. I mean it's like I mean, if you're going to go to the club, you go to drink, that's right, well, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:22:14

Like you, don't go to a club and not drink. Who's letting these young girls in?

Speaker 4: 1:22:16

clubs to drink. Shut up, dude, I know, but we'll bring them all in all those things, well. So then I remember like then, so after I had like kind of like that encounter, right, um, I was like okay, well, um, if I could, like, I understood right that like now, this like addict, like my eating disorder, was gonna be a barrier for me to grow like my relationship with god, because it's like sin right that like against my body and all of that stuff.

Speaker 4: 1:22:47

So I was like I'm like okay, like I want to like surrender that.

Speaker 3: 1:22:52

Wow.

Speaker 4: 1:22:53

But I was like okay, but God, you have to like, help me Right.

Speaker 1: 1:22:58

And so Did you go back to church after that moment?

Speaker 4: 1:23:02

Yeah, I did. I mean after yeah, that's the church, that then the healing.

Speaker 1: 1:23:06

It became a regular.

Speaker 4: 1:23:07

you became like regular attendee or I did, and then I have that, and then I have bad news for you, oh no, Well, hold on up to this up to this point, norma.

Speaker 2: 1:23:17

Yes, I have heard just this strength and this self awareness about you and where you are in your life in these certain moments. That's really different. A lot of people that struggle with this kind of stuff they're not really. They know what they're doing, but they don't have the moment that you've had a couple of them, where you're able to catch yourself and realize whoa, what are you doing? And and that's just like you said, that's God.

Speaker 2: 1:23:51

Right and that's his grace over your life to help you catch yourself. So you don't go even far. Not saying that you didn't go far into certain things you have, but there's always worse. There is always worse man. So just this I've noticed a couple different places where you're like hold up, something has to change and you start making different choices. For me that's pretty cool that you have had that self-awareness even in the hell to catch yourself, man Dang.

Speaker 4: 1:24:27

God's definitely giving me that wisdom. Well, so how I started, like the recovery process?

Speaker 2: 1:24:31

because, like, really at this point, um if you don't mind me asking what church is it? It was, yeah, it was actually christian faith center okay, are they still up or going? Yeah, yeah okay, all right. If you need a good church in tucson christian faith center, go check it out. Man, holy spirit, they take their shoes. They've got flags.

Speaker 3: 1:24:52

Nice, if you need a good church in Tucson Christian Faith Center, go check it out. Man, holy Spirit, they take their shoes off.

Speaker 2: 1:24:56

They've got flags. God is good.

Speaker 4: 1:24:58

Oh, you guys are so funny Well so when I first started in like the recovery process right.

Speaker 1: 1:25:04

I'm sorry.

Speaker 4: 1:25:06

It's okay, shoot, thank you, oh God this is great.

Speaker 3: 1:25:08

We've laughed a lot. It's okay. Oh God, this is great. We've laughed a lot.

Speaker 2: 1:25:13

This is great.

Speaker 1: 1:25:14

Oh man Jesus, I'm not making fun of you. Take your shoes off at church, do whatever. Do whatever you got. You got flags. You're good dude, have fun, sorry, oh.

Speaker 2: 1:25:22

Lord.

Speaker 4: 1:25:23

It's fine. Well, so when I start going through right like the recovery process, it was really like hard because my body was already just naturally so used to like the throwing up and all that. That like when I actually started having I guess in our world of eating disorder it's called it would be called abstinence yeah, right, okay, so it's like that's the wording like abstinence, which means you're not throwing up and you're not using laxatives.

Speaker 4: 1:25:53

So like once I actually started getting like abstinence, like naturally, sometimes like food would want to like, yeah, come up, and then I would have to like swallow oh wow and I remember always thinking like okay, like god, I choose you.

Speaker 2: 1:26:09

Wow, you know, and I had to like walk it out. Yeah, man.

Speaker 4: 1:26:13

Yeah, and I had to like walk it out, and then I even had to walk it out in the sense of all of a sudden, like a month later, right, I start gaining weight and gaining more weight and gaining more weight, and you're like I choose you Really, so I think that's what gave me a real picture of like surrender, right, because it's like every time I eat, I surrender, every time I go out.

Speaker 2: 1:26:41

I want to share with you, just because I'm at this place in my healing and my recovery with my sexual integrity, where, literally, that's exactly what it is. It's either I choose the phone and I choose to look at something that I know I shouldn't be looking at and doing something I know I shouldn't be doing, or, god, I choose you, jesus, I choose you, and that is a daily surrender and it's a daily battle.

Speaker 1: 1:27:03

It's crucifying your flesh man. It's crucifying your flesh.

Speaker 2: 1:27:06

I'm a single man. I have desires, I have things that, and so it's really god showing myself how to yield to him and not didn't not satisfy this flesh, because that's all it is. And when you're, when we're whether it's an eating disorder, a drug addiction, pornography and self-pleasure, whatever it is, it's just a way for us to control these things and have some kind of cope.

Speaker 2: 1:27:36

But and really what we need to let go like you said, when you're throwing up or cutting it's, release it's release amen and we decrease so that he may increase amen amen, yeah, okay, so you're at this church in tucson and you commit to it and you keep going back. What is your recovery?

Speaker 1: 1:27:56

having some abstinence.

Speaker 2: 1:27:57

You said I have some what you're having, some abstinence you're starting to put on some weight and you're starting to not not like what you see. It's real dude.

Speaker 4: 1:28:07

Yeah, it was just yeah, I mean it was just gonna have to be a part of the process because my body was in starvation mode for so long that it was just gonna be. It was just gonna be whatever you know, and I like the very first couple of months I would say the first, like six months. I avoided like looking in the mirror, wow like I couldn't do it okay you know, it's just like, I'm just not.

Speaker 2: 1:28:30

And then there was a certain period in my recovery where I could not be around alcohol. I couldn't. I couldn't be go to bars, I couldn't be around people that were drinking at their house. Now, none of it bothered you, do you? But I'm good. Yeah, um, so it's just, it's a process we go through with god and our healing and our recovery. Just, I think the hardest part was the mindset yeah, changing how you look at food you know what I mean, how you looked at yourself.

Speaker 4: 1:28:59

Yeah, yeah I mean all of that had to like.

Speaker 4: 1:29:03

You know, I had to break free of all of that really experience that deliverance, but I think what really did the biggest, where I experienced the biggest freedom, is so at this point right, I have all this abstinence recovery, like intimacy with the lord. And then, um, one of my mentors um, so I had a mentor then at that time brings up the fact of like hey, like um, there's this conference in Kansas City. Like you should, you know, check it out Like it's. You know prayer and worship and you know all the things.

Speaker 2: 1:29:35

Let me find out Where'd you go. What was the name of it?

Speaker 4: 1:29:38

IHOP yeah yeah. You've heard of IHOP I have.

Speaker 2: 1:29:42

It's the house of prayer.

Speaker 4: 1:29:43

Yeah, I've had people that have gone there, man and really experienced life.

Speaker 2: 1:29:53

It's so life-changing, yeah, literally. I I mean I, as you know things have.

Speaker 4: 1:29:54

Yeah, things are collapsed, but I I don't care about that because, honestly, your experience and your testimony.

Speaker 2: 1:29:57

There was not what it what is your hearing now?

Speaker 4: 1:30:00

yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, so how long were you there? So I did their internship. That was like nine months yeah, so it's called fire in the night and basically what it was is well, first I went to the conference and then I heard about their internships and I was like I'm going to do it.

Speaker 3: 1:30:16

You know what I?

Speaker 4: 1:30:16

mean Because it was like, um, I really, I mean I was like single at this time, young and basically like they say hey, you're pausing your life to just dedicate to pursue God. Because that's all it was.

Speaker 4: 1:30:31

I mean, I know it's criticized a lot, but at the end of the day all it really was was you would go there and we had to be in like the prayer room because there was 24 hours like prayer and worship and we had classes, I mean like Bible classes, but really all you were doing is like reading the Bible and praying, reading the Bible and praying, reading the Bible. And then you have roommates and that's all they're doing. So literally you are like absorbing God in the word. 24, seven man.

Speaker 3: 1:30:56

Like there's no therapy. There's no, there's nothing in the world.

Speaker 2: 1:31:01

Yeah, he's more than enough, he really is.

Speaker 1: 1:31:05

He was in teen challenge for a year.

Speaker 2: 1:31:07

This guy used to come and visit me.

Speaker 1: 1:31:09

I want to stay. I used to tell him I'm like dude you are. I mean, it's 24-7 Jesus, it's just Jesus.

Speaker 4: 1:31:15

Yeah, 24-7,. It changes you. It changes you.

Speaker 1: 1:31:18

I'm like dude I would give up a year of my life if I could come and do that. You know what I mean.

Speaker 4: 1:31:26

But I had a wife walk away for a year.

Speaker 2: 1:31:27

you know I mean yeah, you kind of can't.

Speaker 1: 1:31:29

I was, I was a little jealous but to watch how he was growing and the way he was changing it set me on fire. It was like I couldn't get enough, jesus, if anybody has opportunity to take a year and just go get jesus. Go, go, get away with god man you have that in your life, that opportunity go do it what else?

Speaker 4: 1:31:48

you gonna do make money and blow it on stupid stuff you know what I mean try to build your life, yeah and it was like, I think also again, you're around people that are pursuing god 24, 7 right, and so like a lot of words that you would receive would always be very accurate right, like prophetic words, like things like that. Um, I mean, and like I was, I was literally marked and delivered, I mean all of that, that's, that was the place, and it was, that was life-changing.

Speaker 2: 1:32:18

Yes, come on man you've never been the same since.

Speaker 4: 1:32:21

No, that was the that was the point for me, because, like the intimacy right there was no, I mean, and even when you did the internship, you didn't go there with the goal of like, oh, you're gonna at going to in the end, you're going to be a minister, you're going to be. It's literally like you're coming to pursue Jesus.

Speaker 1: 1:32:37

That's it. Come on, that's great. Like that was it.

Speaker 4: 1:32:41

And I remember one time, that's great. I responded to like an altar call and I got this like picture of like a white horse and there was like fire underneath it. And then someone else, when they came and they prayed over me, they're like hey, I got this picture of like a white horse and like fire.

Speaker 4: 1:32:59

I mean, it was those kind of things, because we were all immersed in the word and prayer and pursuing God, and so that I mean, that was it for me, that was my deliverance. Until this day, I would say, like my freedom, my deliverance, my greatest recovery was in those moments of just going after God.

Speaker 2: 1:33:22

So have you been abstinent since? Yes?

Speaker 4: 1:33:24

Really. It's like a long time, because I'm 40 now Come on man.

Speaker 2: 1:33:29

Oh my gosh, that's a long time. I'm 40 now. Come on man. Oh my gosh, that's a long time. Almost 20 years. Dude, oh my gosh. Yes, I want you to come to CR. I want to give you a coin on your date.

Speaker 4: 1:33:36

Wow, that would be such an honor, oh my gosh Really, and you know what it's in November, Really that's like hours.

Speaker 2: 1:33:45

But god, that would be such an honor if you came on a monday night so we could give you that 20 year coin, sis oh my god, time flies wow, wow, look what god has done. That's almost gonna make me cry. I told you I cry when the wind blows.

Speaker 4: 1:34:05

It's just jesus man, I hadn't realized it had been so long time flies you live life free moving on praise God that's beautiful.

Speaker 1: 1:34:20

What would you say was your biggest takeaway from those nine months, something that you still carry with you today?

Speaker 4: 1:34:29

probably so. My favorite verse during that season, something that you still carry with you today Probably so. My favorite verse during that season became Psalm 27, 4. One thing I ask of the Lord this is what I seek right that I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life, all the days of my life. Yeah, and I would always pray that, like God, whatever it takes. Become my one thing, become the one thing that I want the most.

Speaker 4: 1:34:53

Yeah, and then um one thing I love that song yes, and then with that verse I mean, there's two other verses that talk about one thing right Like this one thing I do forget the former things, all that. But, um, I would say, just like that desire to always go back to like hey, if you're not, if things don't feel right in my life, it's because you're not my one thing.

Speaker 1: 1:35:15

Yeah, Period Like right.

Speaker 3: 1:35:17

That's the foundation that I can always go back to.

Speaker 4: 1:35:21

And then I think too when I process the reality of like God has everything at his disposal, but he wants me like genuinely wants me, isn't that just puts you in awe.

Speaker 1: 1:35:34

I'm in a season right now where there's a song that says everything I need, my father has it, and so when things are not, when I'm not receiving the things that I think I need from people in my life, I remind myself by singing that song.

Speaker 2: 1:35:50

God has everything you need, my father has it, you know, what I mean.

Speaker 1: 1:35:54

He has the love that I seek. He has the affirmation that I desire. He has all the things that we should seek from him and not other people, including our spouses.

Speaker 4: 1:36:04

You know what?

Speaker 1: 1:36:04

I mean Because we're all broken people. You know what I mean. If we're all broken people, you know I mean. If we're looking to our spouses for affirmation, we're going to be let down. If we're looking to the world for fulfillment we're going to be let down, but our father has all that for us. If we look to him for it, we'll receive what we need and it's enough to sustain us so I just have to share for you and for whoever's watching and listening.

Speaker 2: 1:36:25

my mom and my dad have literally been through hell. They used to sell dope man Dad's prison multiple times. Mom, I mean, I got high with them for the first time in my life. Don't get high with your kids, people.

Speaker 1: 1:36:40

God. That's why what I was speaking on earlier was from experience. Our relationship started in addiction, sexually based. You know what I mean. And then here we are. Almost 30 years later. Man, god, you guys, and through 20 years of addiction, me in and out of prison. Just the fact that there's a lot of hurt. The fact that we're still married and together blows me away.

Speaker 2: 1:37:04

It's a miracle.

Speaker 1: 1:37:05

You know what I mean? No, because I literally did everything I could to destroy it, and walk away from it yeah, why is she still Because?

Speaker 2: 1:37:12

she loves you bud. No, Jesus so.

Speaker 1: 1:37:15

I had a friend ask her one time how could you trust him after everything he did, and her response was the most beautiful thing she could ever say.

Speaker 3: 1:37:26

She said I don't trust him, but I trust.

Speaker 1: 1:37:26

God's plan and purpose for our lives. I was like all right, girl, we're good, I don't need you to trust me, I need you to trust God. Though you know what I mean, and the fact that she said that I mean even my friend kind of looked at me like, really, I'm like, yes, dude, cool. You know what I mean. If you trust God and his plan and purpose for our marriage and our life, then we're going to be just fine you know what I mean, and they are.

Speaker 2: 1:37:47

They're better now than they've ever been. They're living their best life. Do they need healing? Of course, man. Of course we're getting there.

Speaker 1: 1:37:54

It takes time. We're getting there.

Speaker 2: 1:37:56

And a lot of it is through communication and talking. Now, what they're doing is the stuff that they should have been doing when they first met each other. Yeah, my dad was in prison and mom was in jail. They were pen pals. She was, that's how we met.

Speaker 3: 1:38:12

That's how we met. That's how they talked for the first few years.

Speaker 2: 1:38:14

Oh, wow so yeah, just thank God for recovery, thank God for Celebrate Recovery, thank God for Jesus, because he's what kept them and brought them through.

Speaker 1: 1:38:23

Oh, yeah, but I just felt like I had to share that she's actually the reason I started seeking the Lord, because I fell in love with her right away and she started talking about God. I was also true. You know what that is?

Speaker 3: 1:38:35

No.

Speaker 1: 1:38:36

So also true is methodical gods.

Speaker 4: 1:38:39

Oh, okay, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 1:38:41

And so when I fell in love with her, she started talking about God and I'm like I need to start looking into this God. You know what I mean, because if I'm going to be with her, I need to know what her God is and changed everything.

Speaker 2: 1:38:53

Man, yeah, amen, okay, so where are we? We are, she's nine months at a. Nine months at.

Speaker 1: 1:38:59

IHOP and not the pancake place. People Come on she blew up.

Speaker 2: 1:39:07

No, she gets healed, she finds new life with jesus.

Speaker 1: 1:39:11

You said something that I want to iterate. You said intimacy.

Speaker 2: 1:39:15

Yeah, because the world is buddy the world sees intimacy as something completely different.

Speaker 1: 1:39:21

Yep, because I had a friend who I grew up with. It was a female and I told her to just be intimate with god and one of her friends was like oh, that's gross.

Speaker 2: 1:39:28

I'm like shut up because that's what they think. You're trying to twist what intimacy is intimacy is a closeness, that's right.

Speaker 1: 1:39:36

You know what I mean, and so the fact that you use that word to be with God is powerful, because it's that's a relationship, yeah that's not religion, that's not things that you have to do so that I'm checked.

Speaker 2: 1:39:49

You know what I mean. It's something that you wanted to do because you were going into these places and experiencing God.

Speaker 1: 1:39:56

Intimacy is as close as you can get to somebody without having sex, right.

Speaker 4: 1:39:59

You know what I mean. That's what intimacy is.

Speaker 1: 1:40:02

Sex is sex, it's not intimacy. You know what I mean. So the fact that you use that word.

Speaker 3: 1:40:11

I love that you use that word, I love that you use that word because it's so close that you're. You know what I mean. It's good, yeah, it's really good, yeah, so you're marked.

Speaker 4: 1:40:15

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I marked off, you're marked yeah, did you feel like called into ministry? Or yes, because so actually wow when I left ihop, I couldn't function because it's like how do you function?

Speaker 2: 1:40:28

in the real world. That's when you're like in this bubble right safety bubble with jesus yeah, that's real dude.

Speaker 4: 1:40:34

Yeah, like I went to the airport and I heard a cuss word and I was like what is happening?

Speaker 2: 1:40:41

you're going to hell, that mean girl didn't come back, did she?

Speaker 4: 1:40:50

it was really hard to transition that's real yeah um, because you're like, oh, this, like I have to go back to life, right? Like pay bills no, I'm gonna work like but you want this and it's like no, that was just a season and I really had to understand right that it was just a season.

Speaker 1: 1:41:09

But he said one thing about teen. I'm sorry oh. He said one thing about Teen Challenge was they taught him how to walk with God, and it sounds like you were just kind of in a bubble and didn't really get taught how to walk with God in real life. You know what I mean, so I can see how that would be challenging, it takes time.

Speaker 4: 1:41:23

You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 1:41:24

It's a process.

Speaker 4: 1:41:25

Yeah, I mean the prayer room. I mean literally our apartment complex was like walking like across the street from the prayer room.

Speaker 2: 1:41:31

Wow, the 24-7 prayer room.

Speaker 4: 1:41:33

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:41:34

Oh my.

Speaker 4: 1:41:34

God, I would have lived in that room. They owned an apartment complex. Wow, they did it right.

Speaker 2: 1:41:39

So we really weren't about like and Was it a bunch of people your age? Yeah, that's wonderful. Wow, that's just setting a whole generation of youngsters on fire for God. Yeah, god.

Speaker 4: 1:41:55

So really, I think it was like yeah, I mean, and then you're hanging out with anybody that you're hanging out with, and all we have to talk about is like well, what did God show to you in the prayer room? What? Did like and so, yeah, it's really hard to go back to life because you're like okay.

Speaker 2: 1:42:05

No, no, boy caught your eye over there. No, no, no, boy caught your eye over there. No, no, okay, no, never, never, until my husband wasn't gonna get hurt yeah, never never until, never, ever, ever until I met my husband.

Speaker 4: 1:42:17

Yeah, okay and yeah, that was the last thing I was really focused on, and then amen yeah, I tell people that are going into recovery or just starting or like new Christians.

Speaker 2: 1:42:28

You got to be selfish right now and it's got to be you and your relationship with God and your healing and your recovery, because a lot of people that they're just starting, they don't even know what they're doing. They have no idea what they're saying yes to what the life looks like. That's why it's our jobs as mature believers and people who have walked through recovery and got some healing, to model it and talk about it. Yeah, there's too many people, mom. It's like that never happened.

Speaker 2: 1:43:00

Yeah, you know because they're living a totally different life. Yeah, but we have to have enough healing and enough honesty and be vulnerable to be able to share our story with others, because power is in our testimony. Yeah, really is exactly.

Speaker 4: 1:43:16

Yeah. Well, when I came back um and there was a church that was doing like a school of ministry and so I was like, oh, I'm, I think that's what I want to do, right, like full time ministry. But I wasn't sure exactly what, so I did, I joined ministry school through like the Assemblies of God.

Speaker 3: 1:43:34

Oh nice.

Speaker 4: 1:43:35

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:43:36

Teen Challenge is AG oh, ok, yeah, yeah, so same.

Speaker 4: 1:43:40

Yeah, so I did that and then, actually to my surprise, I actually felt more called. I realized through that I felt more called to work in like social work.

Speaker 2: 1:43:53

Yeah, wow.

Speaker 4: 1:43:55

And be a counselor, because actually that's what I ended up changing my major to Like. I went from like an actress to like a licensed, like social worker.

Speaker 3: 1:44:03

Yeah, wow, yeah, so I actually went into like counseling.

Speaker 4: 1:44:06

So then I go work in um like behavioral health as like a counselor and I my first job, yeah, my first job was working with women who had a dcs case that had, like their children removed, and so it was helping them like to, you know, like, like in their recovery and walking through that. And so it was helping them like to, you know, like, like in their recovery and walking through that. And so, yeah, and then at church I was serving like as a youth leader.

Speaker 2: 1:44:33

So I have to share, because you're talking about kids and getting their mom. Tomorrow I'm actually going out to my father's. This is my dad, but my real father has a whole new family. They've fostered, adopted five. Tomorrow we're getting our sixth. Her name is little Miley. She's four and I'm like this is the first one that I'm actually going to be in the courtroom for the adoption.

Speaker 2: 1:45:01

The first three I was in addiction. The adoption, oh the first three um, I was in addiction and I was so far gone that I wanted nothing to do with my father or anything over there I was. Addiction keeps you isolated and away from everything you love, and it's good for you. Um, the the last two I was out of addiction but I was still in offense because I was mad at my father, for how could you give these kids and this family what you're giving them? And why? Why didn't you give that to me and my sister? You know what I mean A whole thing that, through recovery and through my healing and putting the work in, I'm at a place now where it's like, no, I want to go be a part of this. So I'm literally going into a courtroom with a judge that they're not going to be looking to put him away.

Speaker 2: 1:45:48

So this is great man. I just it's cool to be at a place. Did you get?

Speaker 1: 1:45:55

your picture taken with a judge.

Speaker 3: 1:45:58

Not in cuffs.

Speaker 2: 1:46:01

Yeah, man, so it's just yeah, it's cool, I'm excited. Just a new life jesus, how were you?

Speaker 1: 1:46:08

how were you when you came back into the school of ministry? How how old were you?

Speaker 3: 1:46:12

how was?

Speaker 2: 1:46:13

I when I how old were you? Oh, how old 22 yeah 22 23 and you go back to tucson yeah, I was in tucson yeah with your sister came back from kansas city?

Speaker 4: 1:46:25

um, no, because, like that school of ministry that I went to, had their own like housing oh cool she had to live in, like the housing.

Speaker 2: 1:46:32

Yeah, so you got your own place with a roommate yeah with roommates roommates, that's always fun. The girls, it's always fun yeah, I was yes girls are mean to each other.

Speaker 4: 1:46:45

They are I actually, they actually kind of stayed away from me because I was really weird. I was still very weird from like I hop, like they would be like talking about, like you know, all this guy's cute blah, blah, blah and I was literally in the corner praying like actually you, you were still literally like just you still had the I hop mentality, yeah, like praying in tongues and they're like talking about life and I'm like I, and so they really did think I was like kind of weird that's well.

Speaker 2: 1:47:10

So basically it's, it's like we get I don't know how to say it, but I heard Todd Wyatt once say. He said don't be so heavenly minded that you're no earthly good, and that's really what it is. We're so that it's like we miss. Wait hold on. This is reality. Let's be practical and like how can we do life? So, but it's real. When I came out of teen challenge, so many people from teen challenge.

Speaker 1: 1:47:40

It turns people out sometimes. Yeah, yeah, go look at them. They think they're so super spiritual. You know what I mean.

Speaker 4: 1:47:45

When we're just on fire. I mean, that's what it was.

Speaker 2: 1:47:48

That's what it is, I genuinely wanted to pray in the corner.

Speaker 4: 1:47:50

I mean, I'm just like I don't know when people are embers.

Speaker 1: 1:47:53

They literally turn their cheek to someone who's blazing in fire or people are dead, you know what it? Turns. Yeah, People that are truly burning for God will offend those who are just him.

Speaker 3: 1:48:09

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:48:09

Conviction, like he used to get told all the time you're fake.

Speaker 3: 1:48:13

You know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 1:48:15

People are mean Because he was so on fire for God that it made them feel less than I would get these little notes on my bed I'd get these little notes, surprise notes.

Speaker 2: 1:48:23

You can just stop all that fake. Everybody knows that what you're doing is fake man. I'm like, yeah, damn dude. But then I would have worship leaders and people that would come in and after the set. They're like dude, don't ever stop worshiping like that. I'm like man. Thank you, I needed to hear that encouragement, dude. Yeah, because too many times people try to put water on things that are burning man. When it's people and they're burning for God, just let them burn, dude.

Speaker 1: 1:48:49

And they're going to keep burning or burn out one of the two. You know what I mean my fire's gotten hotter, let's go, god. That was kind of hard for you, though, to come back and deal with that, huh.

Speaker 4: 1:49:00

Yeah, but then I, you know, I, did become practical Eventually. I figured it out. Yeah, you know, yeah, then I did figure that out. Um, and then how long were you in the AG house?

Speaker 1: 1:49:15

it was a year yeah, I did a year. Did you finish the?

Speaker 4: 1:49:16

AG, did you graduate? Well, I guess how it works is like you graduate every year, that you do like. It was at that time how it was set up. It was like if you completed a year, technically you graduated and if you did another year, you know it's just different levels of graduation or different levels.

Speaker 1: 1:49:31

You just did the one year. What'd you do after that?

Speaker 4: 1:49:35

then I went back to school to finish like the social worker stuff do you? Work? Did you work for the state, the city, the city, which one? Well, actually, well, I had collaborations with both, but I specifically was hired through the city.

Speaker 1: 1:49:48

Yeah, how was that?

Speaker 4: 1:49:50

It was. It was hard but it was good and I think I learned that sometimes we put like, we think that like ministry always has to look like in like the church, the church or like if you always get the opportunity to always like preach Jesus. But I've learned that I mean throughout my whole time working. I was. I was able to lead a lot of people to the Lord, even though my title was social worker.

Speaker 1: 1:50:17

Ministry has little to do with preaching.

Speaker 4: 1:50:20

Right.

Speaker 1: 1:50:21

It really does. It's how you live your life. It's how you treat people. It's how you love people where they're at you know, I mean if you, if you preached, if you're preaching too much, you're preaching too much. You don't need to preach to, to reading people for jesus. You should, they should, they should know that you're a christ follower, without you ever even quoting scripture by the way that you live your life. I agree, yeah, because I have. I have a couple of people who are advocates for like what you're talking about.

Speaker 1: 1:50:44

Oh yeah, you know what I mean and some of the stuff they see.

Speaker 4: 1:50:50

Yeah, it's heavy.

Speaker 1: 1:50:52

I mean, it's God. We were talking about demonic stuff as kids, you know what I mean. That you guys go through it's prevalent, you know what.

Speaker 3: 1:51:00

I mean.

Speaker 1: 1:51:01

And to be someone who works with that and deals with that it's, you can see that it weighs heavy on them. You know what I mean. They come around you just just feel the heaviness on them. You know what I mean. So that must have been hard yeah yeah, how long did you do?

Speaker 4: 1:51:15

that for oh my gosh, I did that like forever really well, I feel like it was forever, but it was like probably a good, like nine years.

Speaker 3: 1:51:25

Really.

Speaker 4: 1:51:26

And then I stopped when I got married. Yeah, only because when I got, when I met my husband and we got married, we moved. Well, I was in Tucson and then we moved to like Rio Rico, so I was like, oh, I don't really want to commute, it's like near Nogales.

Speaker 3: 1:51:41

Oh right.

Speaker 1: 1:51:51

So, just practically speaking, I was I was like, oh, I'll just find a job. That's the city in arizona really never heard of that.

Speaker 4: 1:51:54

Yeah, rio rico is like 20 minutes from nogales small town. Yeah, it's a small town really. Yeah, it's a small town.

Speaker 1: 1:51:56

So yeah, where were you going to church during the time that you were doing social work? Where were you going to church at? Uh victory worship center yeah, how was that well?

Speaker 4: 1:52:03

it's now known as like zion, but how was that? Um, it was. It's probably the best church I've ever been to really, what'd you like about it? Um, well, first, what I loved about it was number one, it was scripturally based teaching, and then two um spirit led. So it's like to me that it's important to have like the balance of both right like to allow the holy spirit to move, but it has to align with scripture right and so it's like just a word for scripture and that the foundation is scripture.

Speaker 4: 1:52:35

And then I felt like the pastors who I still keep in touch with today, like um, were just very healthy individuals, like not perfect, which I find it so hard sometimes to find healthy pastors. They were just very healthy individuals, like not perfect, which I find it so hard sometimes to find healthy pastors. They were just healthy pastors. I mean, they've impacted so many people's lives.

Speaker 2: 1:52:52

That's what I tell people about now. Man, I've been around a lot of ministries. I've been in a lot of churches. I've been with pastors, I've been armor bearers. Some pastors are very much they want to control things.

Speaker 1: 1:53:04

Yeah, they were not like they get people and they're like oh, our pastors here.

Speaker 2: 1:53:09

Everything's like this yeah, open palms. Yeah, it's about people, not titles. The the more you go up the more you serve.

Speaker 1: 1:53:17

This is the first church I ever attended where the pastor literally says from the pulpit if you do not feel like this church is right for you, let me know. I know lots of pastors and lots of churches will help you get to the right.

Speaker 2: 1:53:27

Let us help you find where you belong yeah, and to me I'm like wait wait, aren't you about numbers?

Speaker 1: 1:53:32

you know what I mean, and so to hear that come from your pastor, you're like wow, you're really not about just.

Speaker 1: 1:53:38

You really are about finding helping people find where they belong right I mean and you said something earlier that he also says, and that is we have a mission in the church and a mission in the world. Yep, that's right. So we have a place to serve within the body of Christ that we attend church with, but we also have a ministry outside of the church, and the problem is a lot of people think they have to leave the church to go do their outside ministry and that's not the case.

Speaker 2: 1:54:01

Or they think that what they're doing in the church is their ministry and they get lost in the four walls of the church. It's like, dude, you got to go out there, the mission's out there. Go get those people. These are all the people that are saved.

Speaker 4: 1:54:16

Yes, that's really true.

Speaker 1: 1:54:17

We like to do that, with believers, we like to preach to each other these cool little clubs and we show up on.

Speaker 3: 1:54:22

Sunday all dressed up pretty looking nice.

Speaker 2: 1:54:25

Hey, how you doing Good. Hey, how you doing Good Are you guys?

Speaker 1: 1:54:30

all good dude, Best and highly favored.

Speaker 2: 1:54:35

Love church people. They're the best. Praise God.

Speaker 3: 1:54:46

I'll go around with the drug addicts all day long, buddy.

Speaker 2: 1:54:49

At least they're real.

Speaker 4: 1:54:50

God is good, he is yeah well then, during that whole time I was like um, in social work and all that stuff, I was single. And then one of my mentors really challenged me to say, like, because I was always like I want to be single forever and I really did actually yeah, like if to be really honest yeah like I, I really did love it yeah really, genuinely loved it but there's nothing wrong with that.

Speaker 1: 1:55:12

No, no, I loved it.

Speaker 2: 1:55:13

I was like um there's too many, and then? I met my husband there's too many people, norma, who feel like men, feel like they have to have a girlfriend. Yeah, or a lot of women that have to have this guy and it's like no, they have to have a girlfriend, yeah. Or a lot of women that have to have this guy. And it's like no, you have to have Jesus.

Speaker 4: 1:55:30

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:55:30

And you get that right. All this stuff kind of just falls into place, man, and it sounds like that's basically what. You fell in love with God, you had an intimacy with Jesus. You started finding a lane in life to where you could serve and give back. You're working in children's ministry in the church Now. You're helping ladies.

Speaker 2: 1:55:53

It sounds like God kind of gave you your purpose healed you gave you some direction and then it sounds like you brought a man in. Yeah, yay. It's like wait, I didn't want to be single forever. I did want this, she's all yeah, yeah, I used to tell I'd tell people I'm never going to get married, I'm always going to be. Because I didn't. It was just all I saw was my mom and my dad and that relationship was crazy. So it's like, if that's what it is, I don't want it. Yeah, and that's really.

Speaker 2: 1:56:31

But God has literally brought me through recovery and healing to this place where now it's like, dude, no, I want a little rowdy, I want a baby man. And it's crazy because I never wanted kids. Want to, I want a baby man. And it's crazy because I never wanted kids. But people that are here. We've got a lot of people that foster and adopt kids and there's this one little baby that they got, that they kept bringing in, and I just see him. I'm like man, they let me hold him one time and I had used to have this beard this little kid just grabs my beard. I'm like, oh, it just melted me. I'm like, dude, I want kids man. Yeah, but God had to change that in me because whatever girl I'm gonna meet is gonna want kids. Yeah, so it's like, oh God, really is healing and preparing me for something in the future, my helper?

Speaker 4: 1:57:19

Jesus, yes, and I think all of like all those layers had to be healed, like, right that, that trauma, because I saw at home too and I was like, yeah, I don't want that. But also I mean, aside from that, then it was like the challenge of like I actually felt whole, because Jesus really does give us that. I mean really, if you really are abiding in God, you really do find you really do feel whole, because at the end of the day, that's who really makes us whole. And so I think for me it was the challenge of like, well, what do I need a husband for exactly?

Speaker 3: 1:57:54

Right, I have everything I need. Yeah, like really.

Speaker 4: 1:57:58

But then I met my husband and there was something. I don't know what it was.

Speaker 2: 1:58:02

Well, first of all, when did you meet him?

Speaker 4: 1:58:05

at church, no so my mentor kind of challenged me to say, like you know, are you sure? Because I was like I think I have the gift of singleness in the sense of, like I'm gonna be single like the rest of my life like I'm just gonna dedicate my life to god forever, till I die well what does the bible say?

Speaker 1: 1:58:20

it's better that you stay single, but if you can't help yourself, get a spouse yes, yeah, but paul says.

Speaker 2: 1:58:25

However you come to jesus, you should stay. Is that because you got two eyes on him or if you're already with somebody, you got one eye on your family, one eye on god. We can make scripture wherever we want it to be.

Speaker 4: 1:58:39

Jesus, help us well, she really challenged me like do, is that really like what you want, or is that like a wound speaking wow? Wow and I was like oh yeah, I think there's like because I there was an ego to me of like, and that I still have to battle sometimes today, of like, like self-sufficiency right of like I got this independence, yeah, and then yeah, all that, and so I was like oh, yeah, I think I'm speaking for my wounds.

Speaker 4: 1:59:09

I was like whatever, so I went on e-harmony and I was like fine I'm gonna put myself out there. Wow, get on e-harmony that's the christian one, right no but, but you can filter it to where, like hey, I only want to be matched with like christians and stuff like that so um oh, that's the one with all the questions.

Speaker 2: 1:59:27

They do it, yeah, they do a really good job, and then you pay for it.

Speaker 4: 1:59:31

So it's kind of more serious and so we met up for coffee and I don't I think I just he was so sweet, like I just knew he was so sweet. I don't, I don't know what it was, I don't know how to explain it, but I just like I was like this is I'm in trouble, like what was it? The first draw you his picture um no, no, because I was actually annoyed by his profile, because it was really simple, he's nice no, literally, it was so simple.

Speaker 4: 2:00:01

He had a picture of him wearing like this hat and his bio was like I love Jesus in the Bible and I was like is there anything more?

Speaker 1: 2:00:10

Like I just it's not even a whole sentence. Isn't that everything, though? He loved Jesus in the Bible. What more do you want?

Speaker 4: 2:00:19

Well, a little more. Like you know, I like to.

Speaker 2: 2:00:23

I don't know. That's what the meeting is for. That's why we're having coffee.

Speaker 4: 2:00:26

You can ask me questions I'm like he's just so simple I don't know and then, but yeah, so we met for coffee and then I was. I was very on guard right, trying to make like any excuses that I could come up with like not date him again.

Speaker 2: 2:00:41

Cancel, cancel it out. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: 2:00:43

And looking for reasons yes, and the first thing that that came up was like we're talking about you know scripture. And then I was like you know, like in first John, and he didn't know that he's like, yeah, like the book of John, I'm like no, like first child Wow. How many books are in the Bible?

Speaker 2: 2:01:07

How many are in the Old Testament? How many are in the New Testament? Name them. Nope, you're not going to work. Oh my God, oh my God.

Speaker 4: 2:01:16

Like I died. And then, of course, I realized what I was doing right, so I was like get over yourself.

Speaker 2: 2:01:26

You're literally trying to cancel out your blessing really, but he could handle me. And then, like our second date, I showed up with a box full of questions and they were like they were mixed right like they were psychological, spiritual, like they were really hard where'd you get them questions and, like you, he picked them out and he'd have to pick them out and answer them.

Speaker 4: 2:01:45

Oh man, where'd you?

Speaker 2: 2:01:46

get the questions from wow, I would have felt like I was on the hot seat, dude I want to know where you got the questions from I made them up

Speaker 1: 2:01:55

oh you made them up, things she wanted to know because his bio was so simple. Yeah, I don't know if there was something you got from him like that's great. I don't know where. I don't know if there was something you got from him, that's great.

Speaker 4: 2:02:04

No, I mean, you know.

Speaker 3: 2:02:07

I can think like a counselor.

Speaker 4: 2:02:10

So I had some really hard questions. One of them was like, yeah, like what Is this on sex?

Speaker 2: 2:02:14

Because I think you said it was a mix of everything.

Speaker 3: 2:02:17

Yeah, like I was like what is like the sin that has affected you the most in your life and why Like they were like that and the fact that he could handle me and was like okay, you know you want to go on another date?

Speaker 2: 2:02:31

I was like, okay, he can he can take me wow so you know wow, that's really special really that's a very interesting way to meet somebody. Yeah, yeah, wow, really diving in no holds barred. You're either going to make it homie or you're not. Sink or swim, bro. Turn or burn bud.

Speaker 4: 2:02:54

It was literally our second date.

Speaker 2: 2:02:57

You were trying to push him away.

Speaker 3: 2:03:00

Do you think you were?

Speaker 1: 2:03:01

No no.

Speaker 3: 2:03:03

I really wanted to know.

Speaker 2: 2:03:04

Wow Like yeah, do you think you?

Speaker 4: 2:03:06

were. Do you think you were? No, I really wanted to know.

Speaker 1: 2:03:08

Wow, like yeah, what's your root of sin? Yeah, yeah, I want to know. Yeah, amen, but anyway, yeah, okay but he but you, because I got to ask you this okay so I'm sure you wanted to know the answers, but do you think you were trying to be um aggressive enough to kind of push him away?

Speaker 2: 2:03:25

Those are hard questions.

Speaker 1: 2:03:26

To see if he would walk away, because you said you really didn't want a relationship anyways. You were kind of whatever. Do you think you were subconsciously like throwing the book at him to see if he would stay or not?

Speaker 4: 2:03:39

I think subconsciously, yeah, it was a test. Yeah, totally I mean he totally was like not he passed? Yeah, he was totally so chill about it. He's like all right, and then at one point halfway through it, right, he's like you know, I kind of feel like this is cheating because you wrote all the questions I love this guy already did the third date?

Speaker 2: 2:04:00

he get a question.

Speaker 3: 2:04:01

You no husband you need a question. That's great dude. Come on, sis, Come on, sis, we're married.

Speaker 1: 2:04:11

Now it's okay.

Speaker 2: 2:04:13

It's all right. It's all right.

Speaker 1: 2:04:16

That's great. I'll give you my number, bro. I'll be able to talk to somebody. Yeah, you need to talk bro, call us man.

Speaker 2: 2:04:21

Love you, bud. I'm going to be praying for you, dude, I'm just kidding.

Speaker 3: 2:04:24

I'm just kidding, I'm totally kidding.

Speaker 4: 2:04:27

But yeah, he wasn't moved by any of it.

Speaker 2: 2:04:31

Come on man.

Speaker 4: 2:04:33

He was super chill.

Speaker 2: 2:04:34

Yeah, amen. Is he white, is he Mexican?

Speaker 4: 2:04:38

He's white, he's a white guy.

Speaker 1: 2:04:39

Okay, amen God. Bless you, brother. Yeah, amen God bless you, brother.

Speaker 2: 2:04:43

Yeah, yeah, for real, yeah, no, I mean he's one of our people.

Speaker 1: 2:04:46

No, it's not what I meant Jesus, jesus, dude, you went there, not me. He got himself a nice wife, brother, amen, god bless him, man, amen. She's a woman of God.

Speaker 2: 2:04:57

Any man that finds a woman finds his blessing. That's right.

Speaker 1: 2:05:07

that's right, you guys are interesting people, let me tell you. No, we're a little out there, but that's I mean, it's great though. I'd love that for you, sis.

Speaker 4: 2:05:11

Yeah, I really do yeah, and he's like he's my best friend, is he?

Speaker 1: 2:05:15

oh, stop it, you're gonna make me cry.

Speaker 3: 2:05:19

Now I am. That's the best thing to find.

Speaker 1: 2:05:21

My wife is my wife is my best friend you know I what I mean. Yeah, yeah, she's. I mean as much as we've been through. How could she not be? You know what I mean. That's right, dad. I told her one time. I said you know, I feel like I fail you every day and she's like you're my best friend, I need you every day. You know what I mean. I'm like she is. Yeah, I love that.

Speaker 2: 2:05:40

Yeah, awesome. So when did you guys, when did you and your husband meet? And then, how long did you date?

Speaker 4: 2:05:49

And when did you get married? So we met when I was 30. We dated for six months and then we got married.

Speaker 3: 2:05:55

Nice, oh, wow Okay.

Speaker 4: 2:05:57

So it was real quick. No actually we dated five months because by the time I married him we'd been dating six months.

Speaker 1: 2:06:02

So yeah, was he going to church at the time you guys met?

Speaker 4: 2:06:08

Yeah, he was. Yeah, we were going to different churches.

Speaker 2: 2:06:11

Did you do any premarital counseling?

Speaker 4: 2:06:15

You know, the church that I was going to didn't offer that, so we did it through his church and they only did like one session yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:06:22

Oh, wow, okay, All right. Yeah, oh, wow, okay, all right.

Speaker 4: 2:06:25

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:06:27

What was that like?

Speaker 4: 2:06:28

The premarital counseling.

Speaker 1: 2:06:30

Yeah, I've never been to that.

Speaker 4: 2:06:31

It was kind of awkward.

Speaker 1: 2:06:32

I mean, I don't, I think they're supposed to be different, I don't know, Did they just kind of like tell you the biblical principles of marriage, or I mean?

Speaker 4: 2:06:41

did they talk about real stuff yeah, I think it was like they pretty much had us over for dinner and then it was like the conversation was just pretty much like um, they talked a little bit about like finances yeah, like sex and then kind of just went over like, hey, these, this is like our advice and like kind of what we've learned great and like our years of marriage.

Speaker 2: 2:07:04

And then so it was like the pastors who did it then all right good bad yeah yeah, nice man so they're able to share their experience and maybe some of the struggles they've gone through to kind of help you so you guys don't have to go through those things yeah yeah, what was?

Speaker 4: 2:07:17

your wedding like what was my, my wedding? Like yeah, um, it was, it was really nice, um, it was a little okay. So I felt really bad for my husband because, like, um, my one of my bridesmaids was late and I didn't know that that's why we hadn't started the ceremony, and so he was personally like waiting or standing up in the altar for like 20 minutes yeah right and I have no concept because I'm in the back, but I can kind of tell like things aren't really moving.

Speaker 4: 2:07:50

So then they come and tell me like hey, one of your bridesmaids is not here, Like do you want to just start? And then my mother-in-law comes over and tells me like hey, like Matt sent me to check over to see, like, what's going on because he thinks you like changed your mind oh, no, oh no, so he was like all sad up in the altar thinking like oh they're holding and then when they told me it was my bridesmaid, I was like no, we gotta start the wedding like I just felt all those emotions.

Speaker 1: 2:08:22

Yeah, just standing up there waiting.

Speaker 2: 2:08:25

Oh god, I'm really gonna pray for you, matt. You got your hands full.

Speaker 4: 2:08:30

Buddy, you're great I did not, I did not tell him to wait no long.

Speaker 2: 2:08:42

No, you started it. That's good man, that's awesome. Who started it she started the wedding.

Speaker 1: 2:08:49

I did I started the wedding. We're not waiting for her, let's go. Oh, so you didn't wait for your friend.

Speaker 4: 2:08:54

No, no, her husband's waiting at the altar for her.

Speaker 2: 2:08:56

Amen, yeah, let's get this show on the road.

Speaker 4: 2:09:00

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 2:09:00

Yeah, okay.

Speaker 4: 2:09:02

And then? So my husband didn't want to do like, he didn't want to read our vows out loud, he wanted those to be private.

Speaker 3: 2:09:10

Oh really.

Speaker 2: 2:09:12

Wow, personal yeah.

Speaker 4: 2:09:15

He's a very like private Did you guys write your own vows.

Speaker 1: 2:09:17

Personal guy Really.

Speaker 2: 2:09:20

I got that hint from the bio.

Speaker 3: 2:09:25

You're going to have to ask me some questions.

Speaker 2: 2:09:28

I love Jesus and I love the Bible. That was classic, that's good man, that's good.

Speaker 1: 2:09:32

That's good. I didn't catch that at all. He did that's awesome.

Speaker 4: 2:09:36

Yeah, I mean, I think I was a little extra with the wedding because I got like a carriage and fireworks, oh, wow, wow. So it was a little out there.

Speaker 3: 2:09:45

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:09:45

Okay, all right. Well, you only get one of them, man.

Speaker 3: 2:09:49

Yeah, make it count.

Speaker 2: 2:09:51

Yeah, If you can. That's awesome Okay.

Speaker 4: 2:09:54

And then we didn't get to go on a honeymoon because I couldn't find my passport.

Speaker 3: 2:10:00

Oh dear.

Speaker 1: 2:10:02

You're batting like a thousand here, sis.

Speaker 2: 2:10:12

So then, yeah, so you're batting like a thousand here, sis so then, yeah, so what'd? You guys do you just kind of chill? Then we just chilled really yeah, amen, and so you're going to the church you're serving after you guys got married, did you go to your church or his church?

Speaker 1: 2:10:20

or did you find one of your own we actually found one of our own because we moved to Rio Rico. Oh, that's right, you said that.

Speaker 4: 2:10:27

So since we moved cities, we went, we found one together and then what were you guys at before Tucson? Yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:10:34

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 2:10:35

And then, two months later, we got.

Speaker 1: 2:10:37

What made you move down there?

Speaker 4: 2:10:39

To what Rio Rico? Oh, because my husband works in Nogales.

Speaker 1: 2:10:45

All rio rico? Oh, because my husband works in nogales. All right, okay, why not nogales your family's there? Why did you guys move?

Speaker 4: 2:10:48

to nogales, oh well why rio rico? Oh, I think, because, like we, that's kind of where we found a house that we liked and it's not far from nogales which is where he works, so I just settled there and then, two months later later, I got pregnant after we were married.

Speaker 3: 2:11:05

So it was really fast.

Speaker 4: 2:11:07

And then I had our first baby, and then, two months later, I was pregnant.

Speaker 3: 2:11:10

Oh, wow All right.

Speaker 1: 2:11:12

So you had a baby, and then, two months later, you were pregnant again.

Speaker 4: 2:11:15

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:11:15

Oh, that's awesome. So they were bang bang.

Speaker 2: 2:11:18

Yeah, literally. I mean it's wonderful that they're so close together.

Speaker 1: 2:11:21

You know what I mean A lot of times people wait, and then you have kids that are too far apart, that they don't really I'm four years older than my sister and I hated my sister growing up.

Speaker 2: 2:11:30

So the fact that they're close like that, they're going to grow up together, school together. They're buddies.

Speaker 3: 2:11:36

Yeah, they're very close.

Speaker 4: 2:11:39

There's that, and then.

Speaker 1: 2:11:41

You said you had two boys, right.

Speaker 2: 2:11:46

Oh, that, that. And then, um, you said you had two boys, right. Oh, that's awesome man.

Speaker 4: 2:11:48

So I don't did you talk about your sister yet as your sister, oh. So, um, when we were living together, I was praying for her a lot because she started um dating a man that was like married, and he was a drug dealer.

Speaker 1: 2:12:00

Oh, jesus, oh god and um.

Speaker 4: 2:12:04

So I was always really worried about her, you know, because it's just it was so dark to me, right like this older man, um, she was 19, he was like in his late 30s, he's a drug dealer, right like it was just dark, and so I was always praying.

Speaker 1: 2:12:23

That was in tucson, right, yeah this is before your ihop moment.

Speaker 2: 2:12:27

Yeah, yeah, okay, I pray I.

Speaker 4: 2:12:30

I was praying a lot for her salvation and then, um, actually this happened when I was in like the school of ministry my sister ended up in like the hospital with cancer. She had a brain tumor, damn, and yeah, and so when she got so it was basically like a terminal cancer. There was nothing like they could do about it and stuff and I was really like mad at God because during that time period in my life I had seen God healed so many people that you're that, you're like, well, like, where's the consistency?

Speaker 4: 2:13:08

that's kind of what it felt like for me right, like I don't, this doesn't go together yeah, um, how can you pick and choose?

Speaker 2: 2:13:17

so I was really upset and were you praying for her and healing and anointing her and like, yeah, all the things, all the things but she did.

Speaker 4: 2:13:27

She did live for like five years, but before, before that, when she very first got diagnosed she, so my parents lied to her and told her like, oh, you just had to have like brain surgery because it was a tumor. It was non-cancerous, and I knew I had to tell her the truth, right?

Speaker 2: 2:13:43

like they lied to her and told her oh man yeah, it's pretty horrible.

Speaker 4: 2:13:48

Um, so I'm like I have to tell her yeah you know. So I had to tell her, and then I was like, um, so you know, she starts crying because she has a son. She did end up having a son, and so she's like I'm like I know, I'm really mad at god, and she's like, well, I'm not oh god, and she's the one going through it.

Speaker 4: 2:14:09

Wow, yeah, and she said that like her heart had become really dark because of like um, you know, like the money, and she's like everything that I've seen, and she's like I was completely okay with destroying people's lives in exchange for us getting money. So she's like I needed this to like humble me or like soften my heart, and so I was like wow, like God, really yeah. So, that really shifted things for me Right and then um because it's almost with with where you were it.

Speaker 2: 2:14:48

You had every right to feel the way you felt in those emotions, but it really, if you, if you look at why you were feeling those, it was it was literally a selfishness. Yeah, yeah, because I'm losing my sister. I want my sister for longer. It's a whole thing that God was literally using at that moment for her to heal her heart and get her right with God.

Speaker 1: 2:15:14

That's crazy. Death always brings out selfishness in people bud.

Speaker 2: 2:15:18

Death is different man. It messes with people in different ways.

Speaker 4: 2:15:21

It is different and I was really praying for her healing and believing for her healing and then actually I was so confident that like god was gonna like intervene that they wanted to send her to hospice that first time. Um, and I was like, no, she's not gonna go to hospice because like, like so the tumor that she had is called glioblastoma and basically what it does is, no matter what you throw at it, no matter what medicine, like anything you throw at it, it's just gonna grow back. So the in the surgery they removed half of the tumor, like as much as they could, but it was gonna grow back. So they're like, yeah, she's gotta go to hospice because, like, it's gonna grow back and she's gonna die, like that's just what it does. And I'm like, no, like I know I've heard from the lord, like we're not going to hospice. So my sister went um to live with my parents and she lived for five years and in all those five which that in and of itself was like a miracle really and she went around sharing like her story come on man so and I think we always

Speaker 4: 2:16:22

she always lived knowing, like I don't know when I'm going to leave you know she wanted to use whatever time she had.

Speaker 2: 2:16:29

well, wow.

Speaker 4: 2:16:31

And I think we should all like live like that right now, yeah, but they always live like it's their last day.

Speaker 1: 2:16:37

It becomes more real.

Speaker 4: 2:16:38

I think when you have yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:16:39

Yeah, when you have a diagnosis.

Speaker 2: 2:16:41

Yeah, yeah, I got a thing on my heart and it scared the crap out of me. I went in for stomach issues and a hernia and they did stuck me in a tube. And I get a call like a week later hey, you need to come into the doctor's office. You got something on your heart'm. Like what the hell, dude? It scared the crap out of me and literally I thought I was dying. I thought I was gonna have to quit everything and stop everything I was doing.

Speaker 2: 2:17:16

And my pastor, he's like you've been through so much, you've conquered so many different things, you've made it through so much. You can't just give up now. Just keep doing what you're doing, man, and trust God. And that's really now. I'm like a year and a half, almost two years later and it's grown and they're going to go through and do some stuff, but like they're not worried about it. So why am I? It doesn't affect me, I'm healthier than I've been in a long time. So it just we're. We're all at different places and the what you felt for your sister, it's, it's real. Yeah, it's real. And a lot of people go through that, especially with family members that they love. And um, were you and your sister, did you guys? Because you were already close growing up Before you left for IHOP. You're living with her, you're going to ministry school and did she end up getting away from that guy, or was that the kid? Was that the guy that she had the baby with?

Speaker 4: 2:18:20

That's the guy she had the baby with. Okay, but when she got out of the hospital, um, she well, he, he went to prison and then um yeah, and then when he got out, it was basically like um, she lived for like a year, but they weren like in a relationship anymore at that point Where's your nephew now? He's with his dad, okay.

Speaker 2: 2:18:50

All right. Do you have a relationship with the young man?

Speaker 4: 2:18:53

I do. We're not as close as I would like, just because I have to have like some boundaries because of, like my husband's work, and then we also don't know if, like you know, what he's doing, what he's doing and yeah yeah, okay that kind of thing I know your sister got her healing right, yeah yeah, the ultimate healing? Yeah, no more pain.

Speaker 1: 2:19:16

Yeah, god made it very clear to me one time that he heals in three ways, and that's through medicine, miraculous and death.

Speaker 2: 2:19:21

Yeah, and so when people want to come to me and they're like, yeah, my dad's not the right person to go to with that. I'm like, I'm not the person to talk to about this dude because I'll celebrate them dying because they got their healing.

Speaker 1: 2:19:33

That's what he does.

Speaker 2: 2:19:34

The people are crying and dad's a dad. How are you going to be selfish because they're healed? You know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 2:19:49

You want to be selfish because you miss them.

Speaker 2: 2:19:50

I'm like I can't, I gotta celebrate it. It says mourn with those who mourn and rejoice with those, I know, but rejoice. They got healing and they're in heaven. They got the ultimate prize, dude, amen. There's nothing to be sad about, amen. So you got married when you're 30, had two kids very soon after and now you're 40. You've been married for 10 years. You have your. What are you? What are you doing now with life? Well, how has the past 10 years? Yeah, how's?

Speaker 4: 2:20:10

the marriage been yeah guys actually yeah, yeah, I'm like, um, yeah, I'm like, uh, I know it's supposed. I'm like is it supposed to be like super hard?

Speaker 1: 2:20:22

Yes, it is Okay well.

Speaker 4: 2:20:24

I don't, I mean.

Speaker 2: 2:20:26

Is it?

Speaker 4: 2:20:27

easy for you guys. Yes, wow, but I mean, I'm sure, that's beautiful, I'm sure we'll face like right.

Speaker 2: 2:20:35

A lot of that.

Speaker 4: 2:20:38

What I mean by.

Speaker 1: 2:20:39

it's not easy, is there's disagreements?

Speaker 4: 2:20:42

Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:20:43

There's challenges with finances. That's what I mean by. It's not. I'm not talking about you guys just knock down, drag out fights all the time. That's not what I mean, it's just yeah it's challenging because you got two personalities.

Speaker 2: 2:20:52

You got finances, you got arguments that's why she brought a box with all the questions I can talk about some stuff challenges right when like like our kids are very close in age.

Speaker 4: 2:21:06

So there's, you know there was challenges there, but yeah, You're really with your best friend.

Speaker 1: 2:21:14

Would you because this is going to this will say everything Would you say that you have a Bible-believing marriage that is based upon the Bible?

Speaker 4: 2:21:23

Yes.

Speaker 1: 2:21:24

Then that's why it's good. You know, I mean a lot of marriages are not based that way. A lot of marriages are based upon personalities and other things, you know I mean. So of course there's a lot of challenges in those ones, but most people that I know, that I do life with that have christ-centered marriages, have really good marriages.

Speaker 3: 2:21:43

Yeah, you know what?

Speaker 1: 2:21:44

I mean it's built upon the bible. It's based on the bible. It's, you know, the husband, the wife, the kids and god first. You know I mean, and both of them, and just it's do you?

Speaker 2: 2:21:54

do you and your husband date? Yeah every friday we have I love that for you, god, and you've been doing it for 10 years well, not every friday, I mean well when you can but yeah, we've always intentional ways to die. Yeah, that's great keep doing yeah, don't stop that. Yeah, yep, don't stop that keep pursuing each other man.

Speaker 1: 2:22:16

Yeah, just because you're married doesn't mean you've won the prize already.

Speaker 2: 2:22:19

Yeah I got her.

Speaker 1: 2:22:21

Keep pursuing keep loving, keep Doing all that, yeah, doing all that stuff, man.

Speaker 4: 2:22:26

Well, today I'm. So about a year ago, I bought a business. It's called like Free Ever After Bridal. So it's a bridal shop, but it's like really unique in the sense that. So we have a mix of like new dresses, new bridal dresses and like gently used dresses yeah, of like new dresses, new bridal dresses and like gently used dresses.

Speaker 2: 2:22:48

so basically, our goal is that brides could find like their dream dress for less money oh, wow yeah, and then we hear that, ladies, if you're thinking about getting married and looking for that dress, what's the name of it?

Speaker 4: 2:22:59

free, ever Free, ever After.

Speaker 2: 2:23:01

Free Ever After Wow Dot com.

Speaker 4: 2:23:04

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:23:05

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 2:23:05

Actually the founder based it out of. Like this concept right that in God we can find freedom.

Speaker 1: 2:23:12

Yeah, it's like the free ever after. Yeah.

Speaker 4: 2:23:15

So I bought it from yes. So somebody did found the business, and then every month we donate a percentage of proceeds to like organizations that help against like sex trafficking or we help survivors directly themselves with things like rent or therapy services. So we kind of just use the business to give back. And then I'm also like the president of Southern Arizona Against Slavery, which is like a nonprofit that brings awareness about, like human trafficking and sexual exploitation.

Speaker 2: 2:23:50

Do you guys have like places for these women to go that are coming off the streets and coming out of working that lifestyle and living that lifestyle?

Speaker 4: 2:23:59

No, eventually I'd love to do that, but we're more like a mentorship program when women or men, we would also help men, but we haven't had any men yet. We are more like the mentorship or healing process after you've gone through treatment or therapy. You reach a point in your life where you're like what do I do next?

Speaker 3: 2:24:23

That crossroads.

Speaker 2: 2:24:24

We do that more than like crisis or then the beginning part. Yeah, or?

Speaker 4: 2:24:30

like more your middle because I'm oh, identifreed.

Speaker 2: 2:24:34

Yeah you ever heard about carrie bradley yes yeah okay, so you are in connection with her because she works. I'm not in connection, but I know, okay, I'm gonna connect you guys so that because we need resources, we need people, the network, we need each other, and she works with a lot of the crisis moments, so maybe you guys yeah, they actually have a I think it's a Thursday night outreach where they go to the tracks.

Speaker 3: 2:24:59

They call it the tracks.

Speaker 1: 2:25:00

What.

Speaker 2: 2:25:01

Yes, they load up on a bus, they go out there.

Speaker 1: 2:25:06

They literally had a lady who was with a gentleman who was much older than she was and they could tell that it was not a normal relationship. The girl had to ask this guy because they have clothes and shoes and stuff that they kind of give out, and she had to ask this guy if she can get on the bus and look at some shoes. And the guy said, yeah, ahead. So she gets on the bus and while they're in there, they're, they're ministering to her, you know. I mean, are you safe? Is everything good? And if you know, here's my card, if you need anything, just get a hold of me. She gets off the bus and realizes this is my opportunity and tells the guy hey, I got the wrong pair, I'm going to go get on and get another one. She gets back on the bus and tells him get me out of here.

Speaker 2: 2:25:47

Get me out of here, I'm not safe.

Speaker 1: 2:25:48

They code red.

Speaker 3: 2:25:50

They shut the doors, they go take off.

Speaker 1: 2:25:51

Dude pulls out a gun and just starts pow, pow, pow, pow, pow and it's hitting the van and they get away. They call the van I had a bullet hole on that van, and dude was point blank range unloading his gun on that van, and they could not find one bullet hole in that van.

Speaker 3: 2:26:13

Wow.

Speaker 1: 2:26:13

Yeah, we have a good God. Her testimony is on our show.

Speaker 3: 2:26:16

You should go watch it, man.

Speaker 2: 2:26:17

Yeah, okay. No, you can't watch that one. That that was when we were in the only video, but you can go listen to it man.

Speaker 4: 2:26:22

Okay.

Speaker 1: 2:26:23

Amazing. She was trafficked herself, got out of it. She's AG too. She gets funding through AG and stuff like that and just a really great ministry that she has. Man, We've got to go there a couple times. And I think he shared his testimony one time there.

Speaker 2: 2:26:37

It seems like a lot of the ladies who have come out of some kind of trauma or abuse or stuff like that when they're younger, a lot of them end up helping and serving in areas like that.

Speaker 1: 2:26:49

It's almost like god had a plan there huh, he uses it, but he uses it. I tell people all the time man, whatever you're going through, be prepared to go back, because yeah it's, it's training ground, man, like my addiction. There's a reason why I'm in addiction recovery ministry is because I was an addict for 20 something years yeah, so of course I'm the one who's going to go back and help addicts, you know, because that's I get you.

Speaker 1: 2:27:15

I understand, you know. I mean same thing with women who've been through that kind of stuff. They pretend when they find jesus and they find the healing and they get hung. God. They tend to go back and want to pull people out.

Speaker 3: 2:27:26

That's our.

Speaker 1: 2:27:27

That's our thing, we're supposed to. Whatever we go through, whatever our trauma is, and we get healing from God, we are meant to go back and pull as many back out as we can?

Speaker 2: 2:27:36

That's redemption, that's redemption, that's redemption.

Speaker 1: 2:27:38

God didn't save you just so you could be saved.

Speaker 2: 2:27:41

Oh Jesus, what I mean. God saved us.

Speaker 1: 2:27:43

You can go back and get some more.

Speaker 2: 2:27:44

Come on, man, let's populate heaven. Yeah, yes.

Speaker 1: 2:27:48

Yeah, so what do you believe in God for? Go big you still got another 50 years in you, girl. What do you believe in God for?

Speaker 2: 2:28:00

I go big, so do you have a nonprofit? I I'd go big, so do you have a nonprofit?

Speaker 4: 2:28:03

I do.

Speaker 2: 2:28:04

What's it called? Yeah, what's the name?

Speaker 4: 2:28:05

of that Southern Arizona Against Slavery.

Speaker 1: 2:28:08

Do you have a website? Yes, what is it?

Speaker 4: 2:28:10

Sasstucsoncom. Say that slower Sasstucsoncom so that's the initials Southern.

Speaker 2: 2:28:16

Arizona Slavery.

Speaker 3: 2:28:18

So, S-A-S-Tucson.

Speaker 2: 2:28:20

All right, if God puts it on your heart and you feel like helping some ladies find some freedom and some healing. Please sow a seed If God's blessed you with resources. Man.

Speaker 1: 2:28:33

SASTucsoncom. Yeah, Go check it out, man. But what do you believe in God for man? God's got some stuff in your heart.

Speaker 4: 2:28:39

I know he does, yeah, he does. I think really right now, like the biggest thing that I'm believing God for is I really want to reform laws that will help decrease trafficking. So I kind of am believing God to step into, like that realm of like changing laws and policies.

Speaker 2: 2:29:08

You step into that, the attack gets greater I've heard yeah for real I

Speaker 1: 2:29:10

know, wow, but you know what's funny though, is man you can help a lot more.

Speaker 2: 2:29:14

Yeah, a lot more.

Speaker 4: 2:29:16

I just want to get to like the root. Do you know what I'm saying? It's like yes, I love what I'm doing and it does help and it's effective, but but I'm the type of person that is like, I just want to like cut off, like the root, and we forget the power that one person really has.

Speaker 1: 2:29:30

And I'll tell you why Because there was one man who went to Congress and advocated for pornography. That it was healthy for people. It was all these other things, and that one man got it to where pornography became legal.

Speaker 3: 2:29:47

Wow yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:29:47

And look at the ramification we have because of that now. We have men that are sexually driven through pornography, that are out raping women, that are kidnapping women, that are doing all these horrible, horrible things because of the driven of pornography. So one person can make an impact man.

Speaker 3: 2:30:03

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:30:03

So chase that yeah I'm. I'm writing because you can you can change everything by just by yourself, by advocating, by doing the things that you know and you have the degree in the education, obviously using your voice to use it and and be that voice that can change things, man, because you can change that yeah you can make a difference.

Speaker 2: 2:30:23

I'm writing a book right now and it's called why Not Me? Yeah, empowering people. Because for so long I doubted myself, yeah, for so long I hated myself, for so long I told what can I really do? Just one person, yeah, no One person can make a difference.

Speaker 3: 2:30:42

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:30:43

One person can change the world. One person can change the world one person at a time.

Speaker 1: 2:30:47

You got more on your heart. You're not sharing what is it. Is there other things you believe in God for? Not just that. Come on, speak them out.

Speaker 2: 2:30:58

How do you know God speaks to him? Trust me, I know my dad.

Speaker 1: 2:31:04

Because I can tell you I can tell you that you're the kind of woman who believes a lot for God.

Speaker 4: 2:31:09

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:31:09

The things that you've been through and the fight that you're willing to fight. It's not just laws. There's other things that you're believing God to do through your ministry, through your nonprofit, and what is that? I know there is.

Speaker 4: 2:31:23

There is Well now that the holy spirit showed you I'm gonna just share it.

Speaker 4: 2:31:30

Yeah, thank you, but yeah, um the other, so the other things that are really like on my heart is um I really do want to, um open up a safe house yes um, that's kind of I guess it would be more a model similar to like teen challenge in the sense of like yes, we need trauma therapy, but people also need to encounter the lord jesus, yeah, like he's the greatest therapist there is man, the bottom line, and so do you know of home, of hope of who

Speaker 2: 2:32:05

home of hope and cast a grand it's team challenge for women.

Speaker 4: 2:32:09

Yeah, yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes, yeah, have you been?

Speaker 2: 2:32:11

there? No, I haven't, the director is our friend we can make you up with her too.

Speaker 1: 2:32:15

She was on our podcast.

Speaker 4: 2:32:17

Okay, I would love a house like that, but for women that have been through like sex trafficking and then really to raise them up as like reformers. Right so basically like disciples who make disciples but they're actually reformers.

Speaker 3: 2:32:32

Wow, wow. So, they'll go and get more.

Speaker 2: 2:32:37

Come on man this is great, I just love how this is great.

Speaker 1: 2:32:45

I love how God just uses those people like that. He uses addicts to go back and get addicts. He uses people who have been trafficked to go back and help those people. He uses alcoholics to go back and get alcoholics. You know what I mean. And I just love how God never wastes a hurt man. He don't. You know what I mean. God never wastes a hurt and he don't. You know what I mean. He'll take whatever it was that tried to destroy us and turn it for something good. Man, yeah, and those people are powerful people because they know the power of God and what God has done in their lives.

Speaker 2: 2:33:18

What he can do.

Speaker 1: 2:33:18

And that just blows me away, that God does that.

Speaker 2: 2:33:21

It puts this drive inside of us to where it almost becomes like a no-quit.

Speaker 3: 2:33:26

It's like no this is what.

Speaker 2: 2:33:27

I gotta do.

Speaker 1: 2:33:29

I feel called to it In a couple years. If you don't have them homes, keep in contact with us.

Speaker 2: 2:33:36

We got a non-profit Speak Life. Our goal is to have men's homes women's homes, recovery homes things like that. But it's all Jesus, it's all Jesus, right? Yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:33:48

The homes that he was in. It was all.

Speaker 2: 2:33:51

You're going to make me some money bud. They were great.

Speaker 1: 2:33:54

I mean they had great intentions, but it was also profit-driven. You know what I mean? Yeah, and we're believing that you can take all that profit.

Speaker 2: 2:34:01

Ours is not going to be about profit.

Speaker 1: 2:34:03

Because God gave us a clear thing man, if we are truly three-part beings, we're body, soul and spirit. Bingo.

Speaker 2: 2:34:14

To truly have full restoration. It takes all three. You transform the mind.

Speaker 1: 2:34:17

Now you can reform a person's soul but if their spirit is not correct, how much healing do you really have now? If you have the lord but your mind will and emotions is still a trashed, how good are you really spiritually? You know, I mean, and most people that I know that are in some of these recovery homes gluttony is food bountiful.

Speaker 1: 2:34:38

So you have these men who know the word of god, but they're 400 pounds and can barely move. So god made it very clear that our homes are going to be a three-chord thing. There's going to full. So you have these men who know the word of god, but they're 400 pounds and can barely move. So god made it very clear that our homes are going to be a three-chord thing. There's going to be fitness you're going to have, you're going to get them healthy.

Speaker 1: 2:34:52

We have doctors in our churches that are going to be willing to help us make sure they're healthy and good people, but you gotta you gotta heal their body.

Speaker 3: 2:34:59

You gotta heal their mind, will and emotions, which is celebrate recovery and healing and things like that, and you get them to church and you get them in community with believers where they can know that they're loved, they know that they're seen, and jesus is very prevalent.

Speaker 1: 2:35:13

If you can get those three things in purpose, you have really what is really a restored, regenerated bible. Believing person that's healed. Yeah, you know what I mean. It's got to be all three. You can't just heal one and not the other two, or else you have, yeah, no balance to it. You know what I mean? Yeah, I'm believing with you. This is me. Yeah, pray, I'm praying for you. Yeah, come on, all right wait.

Speaker 2: 2:35:37

Is there anything else that you want to share?

Speaker 1: 2:35:39

anything really yeah okay, I'm gonna pray anything else you want me to pray about no, make Make sure to pray for Matt.

Speaker 3: 2:35:51

I think Matt's doing just fine.

Speaker 2: 2:35:54

We have fun, man you got to have joy in what you're doing.

Speaker 1: 2:35:58

Can't be so serious why are you so serious? Before I pray. Thank you very much, Thank you Seriously. Thank you, guys.

Speaker 2: 2:36:05

You were probably one of the funnest. This has been great.

Speaker 1: 2:36:07

We laughed and cried and did all that stuff. So we thank you for your time let me pray for you oh man, jesus, oh God, you really have a great sense of humor, lord. Thank you, lord.

Speaker 1: 2:36:24

I don't know how we get to sit here and listen to your sons and daughters, god, and just hear how you just never leave them broken, god, you always seem to find a way to redeem and restore your sons and daughters, god. So, father, I just thank you for Norma. God Lord, just thank you for Norma, god Lord. I thank you for her story. Lord, I thank you for her willingness to come on. She said earlier that she was bold and I've seen that.

Speaker 1: 2:36:52

Right now, god, I've seen a woman who was just so bold in her faith that she was willing to come and tell people her story. God and Lord, I know that just blesses your heart, god. I just see you up there beaming, just so in love with your daughter, and just her boldness to share you. God. And I thank you, lord, just for the opportunity to sit down and hear her story. God and Lord, I just pray that whoever's listening, god, that they are just in awe of you as we are, God, that people can hear hope in her story. God, people can hear you in her story, god, lord, I pray that her words just touch people's hearts. It stirs their faith, builds up hope in them. God, I know somebody's going to listen right now who felt hopeless, god, and they're going to hear this story and they're just going to be encouraged.

Speaker 1: 2:37:48

God they're going to get up and go to church because of what you've done in her life God if you did it for her, they'll do it for them, god and I just I thank you that you operate in that way, god, that you take our story and our message and our testimony and you stir your people's faith, god, thank you, god.

Speaker 1: 2:38:03

But I also know that that you take our story and our message and our testimony and you stir your people's faith, god, thank you, god. But I also know that you're a God who has more and I thank you for the things that you put on our heart. God, lord, I thank you that you picked a fighter, so great, dear God. You picked a warrior, a soldier, god, who's willing to go to battle for women. So, lord, I thank you right now, god, for putting the right people in our life that are going to help her articulate the right bills.

Speaker 3: 2:38:32

God that are going to be passed.

Speaker 1: 2:38:34

God to counteract this horrible, vile evil that's taking place in our world right now. Father.

Speaker 2: 2:38:42

God Open the door. God Let her in.

Speaker 1: 2:38:45

So you bring congressmen women, you bring city council people.

Speaker 3: 2:38:50

God, you bring who?

Speaker 1: 2:38:51

was ever needed into her life, god, to make this become a reality. Thank you, lord, because just as her heart breaks for those women who are in traffic, god, I know your heart breaks even more God, so does yours.

Speaker 2: 2:39:03

Yeah, women who?

Speaker 1: 2:39:04

are, or traffic. God, I know your heart breaks even more, so it is yours. Yeah, I know that you're just broken, that your daughters are just being violated in in just heinous ways, god, and I thank you that you picked a soldier who's going to go fight for him. God, so bring a team around her, lord, do what's necessary to make it happen. God and lord, I thank you for the finances for these homes. God, jesus' name, lord, I thank you for just a church family who's going to come around her, who are going to help her. God, to help these women get healed. Thank you, lord, thank you, lord. Pray that you begin to touch people's hearts. Let their hearts break for what breaks yours, god, yeah, and as any good father does, I know your heart's breaking for women, god, so I thank you for the finances. Thank you for the therapist. I thank you for the therapists, I thank you for the counselors, thank you for the doctors, anybody that's needed.

Speaker 1: 2:40:08

God, to help these women who are going to be coming to these homes find healing and find freedom. And, lord, I thank you for people who are going to come, who are going to start pounding the streets of Tucson and Nogales and anywhere in the South. God that needs people pounding the streets of Tucson and Nogales and anywhere in the South. God that needs people pounding the streets to find these women, to get them the hope that they need, to get them the place that they need. God, just like you have people in Phoenix, god, bring people to the South, bring more soldiers. God, bring more workers. I know one person can move mountains, god, but sometimes it takes a team and I thank you for a team of women a team of men who have a heart for you, who have a heart for this ministry.

Speaker 1: 2:40:51

God, bring them. I pray in Jesus name. God Lord, I just pray blessings over your daughter. Lord, I thank you for her business, free ever after. God Lord, I thank you that this ministry is going to prosper in Jesus name. God Lord, I thank you for multiple locations. Lord, I thank you that this ministry is going to prosper in Jesus' name. God Lord, I thank you for multiple locations. Lord, I thank you for people who are going to be donating secondhand dresses. God, they're not going to want nothing in return, but, hey, maybe this can help God, because it seems like she's taking what's prospering in this business, lord, and she's using it for your kingdom and for these women, god. So I pray blessings over that business right now in Jesus' name. God Lord, I pray that you continue to strengthen her marriage. God. I thank you for just her boys.

Speaker 1: 2:41:31

God, that they're being raised up in the church, father God that they are going to know nothing but Jesus. God, I thank you, lord, for those young boys. God, lord, I pray, lord, god, that you begin to help Norma bring back that Spanish language into her family. God, let that not die with her kids. God, that is generational. God, that is her heritage. God, let that not die. In Jesus' name. Lord, Help her to teach her sons how to speak both languages. God, I don't know why, but I just feel that it's so important for those boys right now, god, so I thank you for that. Lord, we just pray blessings, lord, we pray safe travels back to Tucson. God. Lord, we thank you for her friends and the gentlemen who drove them up here. God, that you'd let them feel safe driving back. God, that you put protection over their vehicle. Lord, and we just love you for everything you're doing. I can't believe we get to sit down with your kids and be blessed like this, god. So pour out the heavens. In Jesus' name, I pray, amen, amen.

Speaker 2: 2:42:35

Amen, hey Norma can you pray for us real quick.

Speaker 3: 2:42:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah you she was quick, tired of wearing them headphones huh, I know I was out of here.

Speaker 1: 2:42:48

I'm done Out of here. You don't get off that easy man.

Speaker 2: 2:42:52

Now can you pray for Speak Life and just pray for me and dad and just whatever God's gonna do with this. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:42:58

Thanks, sis yeah.

Speaker 4: 2:43:04

Okay, remind me of your name, rob.

Speaker 1: 2:43:07

Eddie and Rowdy.

Speaker 4: 2:43:10

Okay. So, father, I just thank you for For your goodness, and we thank you, god, that you Are the one that truly Sets us free, and Whoever the sun sets free is free indeed. So we thank you that true freedom can be found in you. And I just lift up Eddie and Rowdy to you and I ask that you would continue to bring the right people into their podcast that they that they would interview.

Speaker 4: 2:43:43

Lord, I thank you for their, I thank you for their yes, I thank you for the yes that they've said to you, and I ask that you would just honor their yes, and I just pray a shield of protection over them. I thank you that you've equipped them with the armor of God, so I just ask for the armor of God to surround them. I ask that every weapon formed against them shall not prosper. Lord, I just declare your word over them that, as they say their yes to you, as they serve you, I thank you, god, for your protection, for your divine protection. So I just declare your word over them that no weapon aimed against them will prosper. Thank you, lord.

Speaker 3: 2:44:28

Thank you God.

Speaker 4: 2:44:29

Lord, I ask that you would expand we thank you that you're going to expand this podcast and I ask that you would continue to help them and show them how to steward this. And I ask that, as they steward this, you would fill them with your wisdom on how to do it, and I thank you, god, that you will help them on how to continue to steward it with humility. I ask that you would guard that in their hearts, lord, that they would continuously decrease so that you would increase through them. Lord, I ask that, as you prosper them in every area of their life, that humility would reign in their hearts. And, lord, I just pray that you would bring the right speakers. We're amazed by what you do and what you can do. I mean, you brought me here from Tucson, so we thank you that we serve a God that has no limits, so I thank you that you'll bring people from anywhere, whoever you want, to glorify you through their testimony. I know that you're going to bring them, so we thank you ahead of time for who you're going to bring.

Speaker 4: 2:45:47

And, lord, I ask that, as they continue to just interview people, that they would continue to be sensitive to the whole, the prompting of the holy spirit that they ask um the right questions.

Speaker 4: 2:45:59

I ask that you would just refresh them, um, that you would just prophetically even increase, give them a prophetic increase, prophetic insight and, lord I just pray a boldness over them as well. I thank you that they will share your truth and I thank you that they don't shy away from standing on truth, truth, and I thank you that they don't shy away from standing on truth, the truth of your word. So I ask that you would can, that they would continue in that I just place a hedge of protection over them and, lord, I thank you and we honor you today for their recovery. Lord, I thank you for all the work and the freedom that you've done in them. I ask that you would just surround them with people that would, that would love on them, mentor them, give them that accountability and, lord, I even just ask that you would make them sensitive to any blind spots as we pursue you in our recovery I ask that you would show us blind spots and sanctify us lord we we thank you for your sanctifying work.

Speaker 1: 2:47:06

Thank you, Lord.

Speaker 4: 2:47:08

We honor you today and we pray all this in Jesus' name.

Speaker 2: 2:47:12

Amen, amen, thank you so much, sis. Hey, everybody, I don't know where you're watching from, where you're listening from, but whatever platform you're listening or watching on, if you could subscribe to the channel, follow it you'll get all the. If you're on YouTube, hit the little bell. You'll get all the future notifications of upcoming episodes. Maybe you yourself got a testimony you really want to share. God's done a good work in your life.

Speaker 2: 2:47:38

You can reach out through social media, on Facebook or Instagram, speak life AZ. All one word. Send me a message. I'll get back to you. Maybe the Lord's blessed you, man, and you're able to sow a seed and you have resources. You've heard both her nonprofit and the bridal shop. Or if you want to sow into Speak Life AZ and what God's called us to and what we're doing, we can use all the help we can get. There should be somewhere on Apple or Spotify where you can actually go through and support the show through BuzzSpot as like a monthly subscriber. Please comment. Wherever you're watching from, you can just type one word Jesus. It helps so much with the algorithms and all the stuff in the background. But until next time, we're going to continue to speak life AZ. God bless you, jesus, jesus. But until next time we're going to continue to speak.

Speaker 1: 2:48:24

Life AZ. God bless you, jesus, jesus.