Katie T. Testimony

A stable childhood in Gilbert, AZ. A stay-at-home mom who became a model of grit and sobriety. Then the punches life throws: manipulative relationships, sexual assault at work, a reputation scarred by lies, and a young marriage carrying more baggage than either of them saw coming. Katie doesn’t sugarcoat any of it. She lets us into the honest work of rage giving way to anger, and anger learning healthier exits. That shift didn’t happen by accident—it grew in the soil of a women’s night that opened the door to a church, a life group that made “doing life together” real, and a Celebrate Recovery room where a sponsor named the harm, cut the chords of self-blame, and taught her what true amends sound like.

There’s a moment you won’t forget: a trivia night she almost skipped, where God quietly delivered news that one of her abusers had found Jesus. Not tidy, not triumphant—just a surprising piece of healing no one could have scripted. From there we trace leadership, launching a CR from the ground up, opening their home for baptisms and team nights, and discovering how hospitality can be holy. And then the floor shifts. Her mom’s stage four diagnosis, a rapid decline, and that singular grief of losing your best friend. Katie talks about counseling, movement, and reading entire chapters of scripture as anchors that made survival possible. She’s candid about church hurt and the lonely season that follows a big transition, yet you can hear it—new pillars are being built.

What stands out most is her vision for ministry where people actually are: gyms, trails, restaurants, and third spaces where churched language feels foreign but kindness still translates. She shows up at services for people she never met, listens, and tells their families why their loved one sounded worth knowing. It’s a way of witness that lets life reveal the gospel before words do. If you’ve ever felt broken open by grief, trapped by rage, or mislabeled by others’ stories, this conversation offers practical tools, steady hope, and the kind of faith that finds you in ordinary places.

If this resonated, tap follow, share it with a friend who needs it, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway so others can find the story and the hope.

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome Back And Setting Boundaries
• 3:30 Introducing Katie And Intent Of Testimonies
• 7:10 Childhood Roots, Family, And Identity
• 17:15 Sports, School, And Early Confidence
• 23:30 Alcohol In The Home And Mom’s Sobriety
• 27:45 First Jobs, Bad Relationships, And Control
• 33:30 Home Depot Trauma And Reputation
• 39:50 Meeting Justin And Choosing Worth
• 45:20 Marriage Young And Hidden Baggage
• 51:40 Church Search And First Life Group
• 58:10 Celebrate Recovery And Anger Work
• 1:04:40 Rage Demoted To Anger And Tools
• 1:12:00 Community, Life Groups, And Belonging
• 1:19:20 Serving And Launching CR As Leaders
• 1:28:10 Pivoting Ministries And Obedience
• 1:35:30 Mom’s Diagnosis And Rapid Decline
• 1:42:20 Grief, Pillars Falling, And Church Hurt
• 1:48:40 Practical Grief Tools And Counseling
• 1:54:30 Future Hopes: Ministry Beyond Church Walls
• 2:01:40 Prayers, Blessing, And Closing CTAs

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:17

All right, everybody. Welcome back to the Speak Life A Z podcast. Testimony of Jesus and everyday people. I'm your host, Eddie, and always with me is my son Rowdy.

SPEAKER_04: 0:25

Jesus! What up, bro? Man, yes. It's been a minute, bro. It has been. It has been. I've been in Turkey. I've been traveling the world, man. That's a nice break sometimes. You know what I mean? This is a lot, bro. I know this guy that likes to schedule lots of these. So we're good though. Praise God. We've set some boundaries. Amen. One a week. Thank you, Lord. When we started this, man, we were doing two a week. Yeah. Yeah. It was a lot. Yeah, you talk about spiritual warfare.

SPEAKER_01: 0:51

Yeah, buddy. Yeah. I was telling you before we start about how on the days that we do this, we're always, it seems like we're always under attack on the days that we do these. It's the craziest thing.

SPEAKER_04: 1:01

I almost got hit today. Yeah. And it wasn't my fault. Well, we saw your post. You were in driving school, man.

SPEAKER_00: 1:08

It probably was kind of your fault a little bit.

SPEAKER_04: 1:11

You know what I mean? So amen.

SPEAKER_01: 1:14

It's all good.

SPEAKER_04: 1:15

Uh, but no, it's real, man. We go through war to get here sometimes. And usually a lot of times it's like, oh God, another one? Yeah. And then we come into it and we do it, and how do we leave, bro? It's like, wow, Jesus, that was something about sitting here.

SPEAKER_01: 1:29

Come on, buddy. That changes whatever happened prior to here that you're like, let's go, man. You know what I mean? So I'm excited.

SPEAKER_04: 1:36

It's what God uses to encourage us to give us fuel for the next one, bro. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:41

Well, who'd you bring with you, man?

SPEAKER_04: 1:42

Man, we got our sister Katie. What's up, dude? Katie, what's up, sis? Hi. It's Dudet. Dude.

SPEAKER_01: 1:51

This is so good, man. Hey, so uh, when we first started doing video on this, God made it very clear to us to honor his sons and daughters for coming on and sharing their stories because uh we know that time is valuable, and some people don't share, some people don't want to open up and talk about their things. Uh so when we do get a yes, God made it very clear to honor those people. So we just honor you, sis, and we thank you for your time. And uh we can't wait to hear what God's done in your life, man. So thank you.

SPEAKER_04: 2:15

Yeah, for me, Katie, um this is they're all they all mean something to me, they all have their own um individual like importance. I don't want to say one's better than the other. Um, but ever since the first time that I I connected with you and I met with you over at a place that we'll leave undisclosed, um it's inside joke, man. That's what you're going to do. But um uh I just felt a a real connection um with both you and your husband. Um, I just felt like, man, these are my people. Yeah, there was just something real about um our first encounter that I was like, I okay. And then to watch what God has done, because I think that was the end of 23 or maybe the beginning of 24. So to watch what God's done in almost two years and now how often I get to see you guys, and I'm just like, wow, you never really know. You never really know who God puts in your life and how things will or unfold. Um, so it's just really cool um to have you here today.

SPEAKER_01: 3:28

Yeah, yeah. It's a blessing.

SPEAKER_04: 3:30

It really is. Let me uh let me pray because I've got like these nerves. If I've gotten them, I know you do. Um, Jesus, man, Holy Spirit. Thank you, God. Um, God, I just thank you for what you're getting ready to do. Um, Revelation 12, 11 talks about how we overcome the enemy um by the power and the blood and the word of our testimony and not loving our life unto death. Um, I just thank you for your daughter, Katie, God. Um, I thank you that she has been, uh, like I say, the the pen in your hands. You've been writing this story, God, and she's getting ready to open up. Um, she's getting ready to kick the devil in the face, God. She's getting ready to take back the power in her life that uh sometimes the enemy uses uh the things that we go through to keep us kind of bound and trapped. Um so I thank you, Lord, that you're gonna use this testimony for your glory. Um you're gonna use her story to help encourage both your men and your women, God. Thank you, Lord. Um, I pray for just faith to be stirred through this testimony, and we give you all the praise and glory because it's all yours, God. In Jesus' mighty name. Amen. Amen. Amen. Um, so Katie, when we started this, it was uh 2020. It was COVID. Um, God gave a lot of people podcasts in COVID. Um for the first couple of years, man, we were not obedient to what God told us to do. Um, I set up a studio in my bedroom and we're gonna be online preaching. We're preaching online. That's not what God said, man. When in the it was the end of 22 and the beginning of 23, and we're like, what are we supposed to be doing with this? Yeah, and God told us very clearly Speak Life A Z podcast, the testimony of Jesus and everyday people. Doesn't matter if you're like my dad and you're down at the muffler shop and you're cutting on cars and welding, um, like myself here at the church, um, kind of helping the wheels go. Um, because Lord knows the wheels need to go in this in his house, man, or like yourself, sister, um, and doing what you're doing. We uh we all have a story, we've all come from somewhere, we've all come from out of something. Um, and like dad just said, man, not everybody is willing to share.

SPEAKER_02: 5:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 5:45

Um, I I recently connected with a lady and um sent out the invite and asked her, would you be willing? And um the words out of her mouth were I don't I don't know if I'm ready to revisit some things in my life, yeah, which is totally it's totally cool. Understand. We're all we're all at a different place in our life. Um, but so when we get the yeses, it really means something. And then it's somebody that we're I'm doing life with. Yeah. Um, so that's really what I'm not gonna cry. Jesus. Yeah, you will. Yeah, you will. I need some tissues, Dad. Right there, we got it for you, man. You're good, dude. Oh man, God is good. Um, but so basically what we want today from you, sis, is we just want to know who Katie is, man. Um, where you were born, uh, brothers and sisters, what your relationship was like with mom and dad, um, what your childhood was like growing up. Um, sports, hobbies, what was school like for you? Uh, I don't know about you, but school for me, the academics was great, but like kids were mean, man. So, what whatever your childhood was like, um, and you know, me and dad work well, we we kind of uh have put in some work through recovery, and we realized that uh a lot of the stuff that kind of keeps us trapped or bound or or things that we have to work through later in life, it actually happens when we're kids. Childhood traumas. Childhood traumas, man. Um, so it it totally let the Holy Spirit lead you and all that. Um, but the I think the coolest thing that we we're able to capture on this is your personal encounter with God. Yeah. Um, because the way that the God drew dad to him, it was literally in a max security prison in Tucson. Yeah the way that the Lord showed up in my life and changed immediately. It was August 26, 2014 at Team Challenge in Phoenix. Yeah. Um, I remember the day, I remember the very place I was when God spoke to me, and I could not deny, wow, God is real and he loves me and he forgives me. Um so we want to know yours and and what that looks like. And and they're different for everybody.

SPEAKER_01: 7:56

But that's the beauty of it. That shows how God is a personal God.

SPEAKER_04: 7:59

Personal.

SPEAKER_01: 8:00

If God just had some blueprint that he used to get everybody, it would be boring. Repent!

SPEAKER_04: 8:04

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01: 8:07

So the fact that he knew it would take teen challenge to get him, it would take a prison cell to give me shows that he is a personal God. Come on, who knows you personally, the time, the place, and what it was gonna take to get your attention. Yeah. If that don't show a personal God, I don't know what does. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04: 8:21

And it and it's like you say, man, um you're getting ready to share your personal experience in life and your life story. Um, and who and it's it in it are your encounters with God. And who are we to say, oh, you're a liar. I mean, there obviously are people that can do that, and oh, you didn't hear from God us too. Oh boy, you don't know what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01: 8:42

I was doing street ministry and talking with people who don't even believe in God, and you try to share a scripture with them, they're like, I don't care. That doesn't mean nothing to me, you know what I mean? But when you open up and share your story, it it opens their hearts up to receive the gospel, you know what I mean? And that's why it's so important that we share these things, you know. Because come on, gospel's good and it has power, but to get somebody who doesn't believe, you gotta talk about yourself. You know what I mean? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 9:09

Um, but so it was rabbit hole. We want to be a big thing. Yeah, it was there's gonna be a lot of them.

SPEAKER_00: 9:13

I love rabbit holes.

SPEAKER_04: 9:14

But so we've got your what your childhood was like, your encounters with God. Um, and then like we always say, man, a real encounter with Jesus, with the living God, it leads to life change. Transformation. Things things in our life start to change, our choices start to change, the way we start to to walk and and talk, and people can see wow, there's something different about this one. Not that we're perfect. No, I need Jesus now more day than I ever did. Um, but so how your life changed after um you you your faith became real to you. Um and then at the very end, uh, we actually want to get what you're hoping for in the future. Come on, man. Um, because we have we've asked our we've asked previous listeners um and people that are faithful listeners. Hey, do you do you actually pray for the people that come on there? Oh yeah. So we've got people that are gonna pray for what you're hoping God prayed. Plus we're gonna pray too. And plus we're gonna pray for you. Um, but there's people that that we want to know what you're hoping for because you you're young, you got a lot of life ahead of you, man. And what what what are those things that God has put in your heart? Um, whether missions or ministry or business or for your family. We just we just want to know those things that you're hoping for in the future.

SPEAKER_01: 10:37

Yeah, we want to come alongside you and believe with you, man. Come on. Yeah, so it was like growing up, Katie, man.

SPEAKER_06: 10:44

Well, it's interesting because you say at the very beginning, you guys want to learn who Katie is. Yeah. Um, so do I.

SPEAKER_08: 10:52

Nice.

SPEAKER_06: 10:53

So do I.

SPEAKER_08: 10:53

You're the first person that's ever said that. Wow.

SPEAKER_06: 10:56

I have spent a lifetime trying to figure out who I am, and when I finally think I figure it out, God shows me something different.

SPEAKER_01: 11:04

Wow. That's really good.

SPEAKER_05: 11:06

So um I too am wondering what we're gonna learn about me today.

SPEAKER_04: 11:13

That's fantastic. This is great.

SPEAKER_06: 11:16

Um I can I can honestly say, so I guess I'll just start with um I know I'm a child of God. Um and I I say this often. I am a co-heir with Christ, I am a daughter of the Most High King, I'm a princess.

SPEAKER_02: 11:34

Come on, amen.

SPEAKER_06: 11:35

I am royalty. Um but I have not always felt that. And so because I haven't felt that, that's why I've had challenges in my life. Right? Losing my identity and not knowing who it's in.

SPEAKER_02: 11:50

Bingo. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 11:52

So um as a child, um, so I'm an Arizona native.

SPEAKER_04: 11:57

Are you really? We don't we don't often have many of them. He's one too, man. Okay, all right. So we're unicorns. We are, man.

SPEAKER_00: 12:06

Midwest transplants have taken over Arizona. They're snowbirds.

SPEAKER_04: 12:11

They're getting out of the cold and getting.

SPEAKER_01: 12:13

And they bring their damn sports teams with them. Dodgers suck. And even go to the Cardinals game and the Cardinals fans. Are they all Packers or Minnesota? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06: 12:22

It looked like Lambeau there. So um I'm an Arizona native. I was born and raised in Gilbert, Arizona.

SPEAKER_01: 12:29

Come on, Mesa. Okay. Yeah, all right. Yeah, um Mesa High School.

SPEAKER_06: 12:33

I went to Basha. It was technically Chandler.

SPEAKER_01: 12:36

Where the hell's Basha?

SPEAKER_06: 12:37

It's like in the sticks.

SPEAKER_01: 12:39

It would say way up there.

SPEAKER_06: 12:43

Yeah, so my brother was actually the first graduating class of Basha. I know where that's at. Oh, wow. Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 12:47

So check it out. There's a circle cave right next to it. Yes. My wife used to work there.

SPEAKER_05: 12:51

She hated it.

SPEAKER_01: 12:52

And they had this football helmet that had the B on it. Uh-huh. I thought it was for Baylor.

SPEAKER_05: 12:56

No.

SPEAKER_01: 12:56

And I'm like, and it had signatures. And I'm like, oh, I'm telling my wife, I'm like, I want that helmet. And she's like, it's the high school of my.

SPEAKER_05: 13:03

Oh no.

SPEAKER_01: 13:04

I didn't know Basha High School was right across the street. I want like, I want that Baylor helmet. She's like, it's Batcha.

SPEAKER_05: 13:09

So before that Circle K was there, I know people who ditched in that field.

SPEAKER_04: 13:13

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_05: 13:14

There was nothing out there.

SPEAKER_04: 13:15

Hey, dude. We're gonna go sit on a log and smoke some weed, man.

SPEAKER_05: 13:19

I didn't hang out with those kids, but it was probably cornfields.

SPEAKER_00: 13:23

I sure did. It was probably cornfields or something.

SPEAKER_06: 13:25

It absolutely was, yeah. So, anyways, I I grew up here, born and raised. So all the kids that I went to elementary school with, we grew up together. We went to junior high and high school all together. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 13:37

Um that's cool. Do you still have are you still do you still talk to them and still have friends that you talk to or have relationships with?

SPEAKER_05: 13:45

Um, outside of social media, I'm gonna say no.

SPEAKER_04: 13:48

Okay. Yeah. All right.

SPEAKER_06: 13:50

Oh, I have two. Yeah. Yeah. I grew up in a couple of things. Well, well, I'm sure we'll get into it about why. But yeah, so I would say no, not like close relationships.

SPEAKER_04: 13:59

Um people are in our life for a reason. Other people are in our life for a season, and then some are in our life for life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 14:10

So I have my parents stayed married my whole until my mom passed away. Wow. Um, 41 years. Okay. And I have one older brother. So that's my immediate family. My brother's two years older than me. Okay. Um I would say ever since we were children, we never really got along.

SPEAKER_04: 14:32

You and your brother. I I had that same relationship with my younger sister. I literally was a bo I was so mean. Are you the older or younger? Yeah. And she was like four years, so I can kind of the two years, and it's like, just get away. And then I don't know how he was, but for me, I wasn't living the best, and my sister was like a snitch for my dad. It was just all bad, man. Um is she younger?

SPEAKER_06: 15:00

She is. So what are you saying about younger sisters, Rowdy?

SPEAKER_04: 15:03

Well, I was doing stuff that I didn't want my younger sister to tattletale on me.

SPEAKER_05: 15:07

I bet my brother was too.

SPEAKER_04: 15:09

I was like, get out of here, man. But we're healed now. And we're we're we've worked through some challenges in my recovery. I put in some work and then we're good now, thank God. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 15:20

Yeah. So growing up, I would say when I lived at home, I had really good relationship with both my parents as a young child. Um, I'm super grateful for the life that they provided. We had stable home life. I lived in the same house until I from when I was four until I moved out at 20. Wow, really? And it was a beautiful home that my dad built with his bare hands. Wow. And it's still standing today. Like it's like when I think childhood home, that's what it is. Kudos, Dad. Good job, buddy. Um, and that's where we were raised. And it was a great place to be in Gilbert.

SPEAKER_01: 15:56

And then um that's a rarity, you know that, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 15:59

I know. I mean I feel blessed.

SPEAKER_01: 16:02

Not just that you have mom and dad, but the fact that you lived in the same house. Same house. I did when I was I was the same way from the time I was two to the time I went to prison at twenty, I lived in the same house. Yeah. I mean, so that's a rarity. A lot of people don't have that.

SPEAKER_04: 16:13

No, you're they're uprooted and moved, and especially nowadays with people's jobs and work. Yep. Stuff back then, it was it was like did you feel more rooted?

SPEAKER_01: 16:21

Did you as a as a young kid, could you feel did you look back and and know that you had a stable life?

SPEAKER_06: 16:28

I would say now, yes, because of what I hear from others and not in any comparison, just from a place of gratitude. Because I've moved now um only a few times in my entire life. And it was in my adult life, right? And so when I moved, I realized I suck at moving. Like I'm not good at packing, I'm not good with the chaos. I literally was hiding in the closet crying. Like I suck at it. It's not for me. And then I realized I have no practice. It's real. I don't doubt that. And it was Yeah, it's a grind.

SPEAKER_01: 17:10

It's a grind.

SPEAKER_00: 17:10

And and so my we've moved hundreds of times, so it's like like we should be pros at it, but we still like just throw everything in there, let's go.

SPEAKER_06: 17:17

My husband told me that if we ever move again, he said, I'm gonna ship you away on a vacation and I'll bring you back when I get settled. I'm like, that's the life.

SPEAKER_04: 17:25

That's great. We're gonna move.

SPEAKER_01: 17:27

You're going on vacations, I'll see you when you get back. So when I was a young kid, I had friends who had like just mom or they had a stepdad. And even at a young age, I knew that what I had was was different. That I still had mom and dad. Because I would go to my friend's house, we had stepdad, and they would always just like, I hate my stepdad, you know what I mean? Or they would have just mom and mom would have these toyfriends, and they would always complain about dudes that were coming in and out. And so even at a young age, I knew what I had was I don't want to say special, but it was just I don't know what the word would be, but it was better than what a lot of people have. Did you ever have that acknowledgement or understanding?

SPEAKER_06: 18:08

I think so. Because a lot of times when you're a kid and you say, Oh, I want to have a sleepover or get together with my friend or go do whatever, and your friend would respond and say, Oh, I'm at my dad's that weekend. Oh, I'm at my mom's that weekend, and you're like, Can you not hang out when you're at your mom's? Like, I couldn't understand that that was special time for someone they didn't live with because my parents were always around and my mom, I was very blessed. My mom was a stay-at-home mom. Oh so there was um really dad's a champion. Yeah, he is. Come on.

SPEAKER_01: 18:40

Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_06: 18:41

Yeah, my dad was an excellent provider for our family. Um and when she did end up going to work like part-time, she worked at the school.

SPEAKER_04: 18:52

Where you were at? During lunchtime.

SPEAKER_06: 18:55

I'm like, conveniently you go to work after we leave and our home before we get home. There was no way for me to get in trouble.

SPEAKER_04: 19:02

Wow. Mom was always there.

SPEAKER_06: 19:04

She was always there. Always there.

SPEAKER_04: 19:09

That's all.

SPEAKER_06: 19:10

And I didn't realize how rare that was until it became really inconvenient in my teenage years. Which is where I'm gonna say I started to really um butt heads with my mom. Yeah and my dad did you guys go to church? Um Yeah, we I was raised Catholic.

SPEAKER_00: 19:30

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_06: 19:31

So yes, we went to church, but I never felt like I had a relationship with Christ. I felt like there were all these rules and and I was I was already failing.

SPEAKER_04: 19:44

Right?

SPEAKER_06: 19:45

And so that made me feel like failing in school or failing in life. That's how I felt.

SPEAKER_01: 19:52

Wow, even as a kid.

SPEAKER_06: 19:53

Yes. Yeah, I felt very um condemned and shamed for the things that I did, but not realizing that nobody measures that and so I felt that shame and condemnation where now I realize that Christ is about restoration.

SPEAKER_01: 20:15

So you felt that as a young girl? I did. Really?

SPEAKER_06: 20:18

Mm-hmm. When we when I stopped going to church regularly is when I turned 16 and I was working. And so when I because my parents were like, you can't drive until you get a job because you have to put gas in your car. And I was like, Oh, I have to pay for that. Okay. So I had to get a job before my dad would even take me to get my driver's license. And so I got a job and then I had a car and I had freedom. I had a lot of freedom now because I had money, I had a car, and um and I had a job.

SPEAKER_01: 20:49

What was school like for you?

SPEAKER_06: 20:51

I did very well academically.

SPEAKER_01: 20:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 20:53

Yeah. Learning has never really been hard for me. Um yeah, because I went on after high school to do college and things like that. So yeah, I've academically I've always been, I'm gonna say, above sports, playing softball.

SPEAKER_01: 21:08

I did. I was a fast pitcher. Come on. Let's go.

SPEAKER_06: 21:11

Yeah, I played basketball, softball, um, and I was a cheerleader as well. Really? Come on, sis.

SPEAKER_01: 21:17

What was your fastest pitch?

SPEAKER_06: 21:19

I don't know. I don't know that they're just pitch. I mean, it's still softball. But it's still girls. I don't know that they had readers back then.

SPEAKER_01: 21:26

I don't know that I could hit a fast-pitched softball. I'll show you. No, it's real, but it's real. Yeah. So when I'm so when I was in prison, we actually had a time where we got to play fast-pitched softball. And of course, it was a guy throwing it. I don't know how much harder he could throw than a woman, but it was harder to hit. Yeah. It was hard to hit a fast-pitched softball.

SPEAKER_06: 21:46

See, and I can't really hit a slow pitch because he got these weird arcs. Oh, yeah. And you're like, uh, can you just like get to the plate already?

SPEAKER_00: 21:54

Upswings. Upswings.

SPEAKER_05: 21:56

Yeah, that's not how you actually hit. It should be level.

SPEAKER_04: 21:59

Level, exactly. A level plan, keep the barrel through the zone.

SPEAKER_05: 22:02

Slow pitch, it's for pansies. You should hit the middle.

SPEAKER_04: 22:07

Or slow pitch, it's for pansies. Or old church guys.

SPEAKER_08: 22:12

Pansies. That's great, dude.

SPEAKER_04: 22:16

Oh, yeah, the softball league. It's uh slow pitch. Oh, yeah. There is there's a bunch of guys. There's a bunch of pansies out there.

SPEAKER_05: 22:25

Oh my gosh. I can't believe I said that. I did it for two seasons. Actually, I did it for two seasons.

SPEAKER_01: 22:30

Um and what great camaraderie. It was a fun time where you could be with your brothers in Christ and have fun and be competitive and not have to if you guys wouldn't have been cussing, we'd still be doing it. Okay, that was one individual, and he was the leader.

SPEAKER_00: 22:46

That's why we don't do it no more. The rest of us, we're good. We'll bring it back. Amen.

SPEAKER_05: 22:50

Excellent leadership there, getting kicked off of a league. We can talk about leadership another time.

SPEAKER_01: 22:59

I tried to bring it back. I still will try again. Come on, Dad. It's good for the men to get together and do stuff like that, man. Men are competitive and they need an outlet where they can be competitive.

SPEAKER_06: 23:08

It's not just men that are competitive.

SPEAKER_01: 23:10

God, I hope not. That's so awesome. See, actually, we well there was actually a time we had a co-ed softball team.

SPEAKER_06: 23:14

That'd be fun.

SPEAKER_01: 23:15

And some of the girls were good. I don't want to say the word, but they were B A's, you know what I mean? Uh-huh. And they were what I meant by that, right?

SPEAKER_05: 23:30

Could you spell it out for me?

SPEAKER_01: 23:32

B-A-D-A-S-S. Yes, there's plural. Yeah. They were gangster. How about that? They were gangster.

SPEAKER_05: 23:39

There we go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 23:40

They could play. You know what I mean? Yeah. You guys got weird with that. What was up with that? BA wasn't bad.

SPEAKER_04: 23:47

You're good, bud. That's a trip.

SPEAKER_01: 23:49

Love you, dude. That's a trip.

SPEAKER_06: 23:51

Yeah, so academically I did well. Um, I played some sports. And then um, when I was in high school, I was part of a leadership team. They called it uh the link crew. I don't know what they call it now. But basically we have a link crew here.

SPEAKER_04: 24:11

Oh, you do? It's the whole setup team. Yeah, we call it the link crew. Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 24:16

We even have a shirt that says I'm the link.

SPEAKER_05: 24:17

Yeah, that's what my shirt said.

SPEAKER_06: 24:18

It was purple.

SPEAKER_04: 24:19

Really? Get you one.

SPEAKER_06: 24:21

Yes. Yes. And basically what our role was is we were chosen. Um, I can't remember if we were nominated or if faculty chose us, but we were as upperclassmen, we were there on um first day and we got paired with lowerclassmen so that they had a friendly face and you know wouldn't get thrown in garbage cans and stuff.

SPEAKER_04: 24:41

Stuffed in the locker.

SPEAKER_06: 24:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 24:43

And I it's an important part of high school, dude. Absolutely. What? Getting thrown in the trash can straight in the tape to the flagpole and all that.

SPEAKER_01: 24:50

That's an important part of high school.

SPEAKER_04: 24:52

We don't want to rob these kids of these things. No, no, you don't.

SPEAKER_01: 24:56

It's lesson learned there, buddy. Oh man, yeah, so that was scary.

SPEAKER_06: 24:59

That was good. That was a good experience for me because I kind of did, you know, I did sports, I did academics, I did extracurriculars. Um, I wish that I would have done music stuff then, but I felt like all the people who did music were nerds, and I didn't want to be a nerd.

SPEAKER_01: 25:16

See, I was a band geek all the way up until junior high school, and then I realized, wait a minute, those people are geeks. I'm like, I'm out and we're gonna play football.

SPEAKER_06: 25:24

It took me till I was 30 to pick up the violin.

SPEAKER_01: 25:27

So I was a trumpet and a tuba player. Yeah, that's pretty nerdy. Yeah, you loved it though. Play the drums.

SPEAKER_06: 25:34

But it's so cool when you're older. I liked it.

SPEAKER_01: 25:37

Yeah, I mean, I wish I would have sticked with it. I would wish I would have.

SPEAKER_06: 25:40

It kind of goes back to that thing, like who is Katie? Katie wishes that she would have picked something up back in the day instead of later in life to get more experience.

SPEAKER_04: 25:49

Come on, now it's like you said when you came when you came in, better late than never. Yeah, it's real. Sure. You're you're finding things that you enjoy. Yes. I've noticed a lot, a lot of painting of some people get into exercise, hiking, you know, music. It's cool to, oh man, I felt that. Dang, dude. I saw you playing the guitar and I was drumming again, man.

SPEAKER_01: 26:11

Dang, God. Get me out of your Jesus, bro.

SPEAKER_06: 26:15

And I think that's where it kind like what when we start to figure those things out about ourselves, we stop worrying about what the world says, whether I'm a geek or I'm a nerd or I'm a jock or whatever. But there's these labels, and we no longer no longer care to satisfy a label that the world gives me instead of uh me being who Christ called me to be.

SPEAKER_01: 26:36

That's right. I can remember being in high school, right? And I was like, I I lived a couple miles from the from the high school, like close enough that I could walk. And every morning walking to school, you could hear the band like playing. That's how close I was to the high school. And I can remember walking and being like, damn, that sounds good. Like I loved the sound of the band and what it was doing, and I knew I should have been there, but you know, you're trying to be something you're not. Exactly. But I still remember hearing those sounds and just thinking, God, I love that sound. Yep. It's just a I don't know, it's just a very it's cool.

SPEAKER_04: 27:08

It is they're all together and they're all working together. A lot of people, a lot of sound. It's cool, man. Yeah, absolutely. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_01: 27:15

I'm 53 and I can still remember that now. That how that made me like want to be that again. We need to get you a tuba, sir. Oh, that things are heavy. So the only reason I played the tuba is because I was first chair trumpet. This is still messes with you.

SPEAKER_04: 27:30

It still messes with him.

SPEAKER_01: 27:31

So you were every now and then you were allowed, someone was allowed to challenge first chair, right? Clarence Westbrook. Yeah, you remember this. Wanted to challenge me at chair one of the trumpet, right? And so I played my heart out, he played his heart out, he got chair one. And I'm like, I'm like, whoa, I've been chair one like for the for a whole year, and I'll I'm like not chair one no more.

SPEAKER_06: 27:53

You were humbled.

SPEAKER_01: 27:54

I well, and it also made me want to quit. But I'm also like, I want to be chair one, and so I went to the music teacher and was like, dude, what's up? You know what I mean? And he's like, Well, we need a tuba player, and I'm like, cool.

SPEAKER_03: 28:08

I'll be chair one in the tuba.

SPEAKER_01: 28:09

Nobody's tuba, I'll be chair one of tuba. Chair one of one. Nobody's gonna want to come take my spot, and I I became a tuba player. The only problem is carrying a tuba home at seven years old for Arizona is a little different.

SPEAKER_05: 28:22

It's probably bigger than you at seven. That's a big case, bud.

SPEAKER_01: 28:26

That was elementary school, and I still remember that guy. I still remember Clarence Westbrook. Wherever you are, Clarence. Lord bless you, buddy.

SPEAKER_04: 28:33

Clarence Westbrook. Sorry, this isn't about me. This is about I'm not sure. That's okay. So, from what I've heard, you have you literally can look back on your childhood and your early quote-unquote formative years, and you had both mom and dad. You had mom a lot. Yes. Um, you had an older brother. Um, you did say that it wasn't the best relationship when you guys were kids. So I'm sure there was some fighting, and mom was keeping trying to keep things in order in the house. And um, a lot of you guys probably know what that what that's like. Um, you're school, you've got a brain, you're smart, um, you were applying yourself, you had a lot of extracurricular activities that you were involved in um to keep you busy and to keep you away from the stupid people that were ditching in the cornfield smoking weed. Um, so I mean, up to up to here, you you seriously lived a good childhood. Um, were in the home, did uh mom and dad, was there any drinking or drugging or anything like that? Did you see or know any experiences like that for you?

SPEAKER_06: 29:42

Yes. So both my parents are alcoholics.

SPEAKER_04: 29:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_06: 29:46

Um my mom, praise God, chose to get sober. Come on, amen. Um, when I was probably I sh I wish I knew this. I I wanna say I was like maybe like eight.

SPEAKER_08: 29:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_06: 29:57

Anyways, before she passed away, she would have had uh Um 28 years of sobriety. So she I could do the math, but I'm not I'm on the spot right now. So I'm not gonna do that. But math live is hard. So she 28 years of sobriety.

SPEAKER_01: 30:13

Do you know what made her choose that?

SPEAKER_06: 30:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 30:15

What was that? Um something good, I hope.

SPEAKER_06: 30:18

Yes, I think so. Um she got drunk one night and realized that she couldn't take care of us kids if there was an emergency. That's right. And so she just woke up and like just praise God.

SPEAKER_09: 30:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 30:34

She used to tell us periodically, um, because she was home all the time, she'd be like, Oh, I have to go to a meeting tonight. I'm like, a meeting for what? And I never knew what that meant.

SPEAKER_04: 30:45

But she was going to her recovery meeting.

SPEAKER_06: 30:47

She went, yeah, she went to a few AA meetings. Um, and I asked her, this is actually really bittersweet. I asked her like a few days before she passed away, did you ever get a sponsor and did you ever work the steps? Wow. And she said no. Really? And I said, then how the heck did you stay sober for this long?

SPEAKER_04: 31:05

The meetings.

SPEAKER_06: 31:06

And she said, I just decided I wasn't gonna drink anymore. And she had the big book and she would read it.

SPEAKER_04: 31:13

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_06: 31:13

Um, and she just she just decided, and I find that extremely admirable.

SPEAKER_04: 31:18

I think it's amazing that kids, God, God will use kids to get people right. And a lot of times with working in recovery and serving in in that area, um, it happens a lot for women. I wish more men would realize their their girl or their wives are having kids. It's time to get straight. But a lot of times it doesn't work for the men, but it does for the women. Um thing it's cool. I just think it's cool how God uses kids to get people He changes them. Kids, kids, people change because of kids, which is great.

SPEAKER_06: 31:51

Right.

SPEAKER_04: 31:52

Responsibility, maturity, yep, it's a part of growth in life.

SPEAKER_06: 31:55

Yep, absolutely. So there, yes, so to answer your question, yeah, there was stuff like that in the home, but I wouldn't say that there was any like abuse or negligence or anything like that. Like my dad just likes to drink beers. Um and that it just is what it is. Yeah, and um so I would say when I turned 16 and I started working is when I started to really fall away.

SPEAKER_04: 32:22

That's where I was gonna turn, and I was kind of gonna Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 32:27

So I got a job and um What was your first job? My first job, I was a bagger at Fries grocery stores.

SPEAKER_04: 32:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_06: 32:35

Yep. I knew for certain I didn't want to work in greasy fast food because I didn't want to smell like it. And so because I had a car and I had money, I wanted to be able to do things after work. Yeah, so I didn't want to smell.

SPEAKER_04: 32:47

Yeah, yeah. No, that's great, great reason. That French Fry Grease will get you, man. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_06: 32:54

So I was a bagger for a couple years, and then I got promoted to cashier when I was 18, and um, and I worked at Fry's for two years, and then I moved to work at Home Depot because you couldn't work at Home Depot till you were 18. Really? So that's what I did, and um, for the two years that I worked at Fries, I made a whole new group of friends that didn't go to school with me, that didn't grow up with me, that weren't in my neighborhood, that didn't know the kind of person I was.

SPEAKER_10: 33:25

Wow.

SPEAKER_06: 33:25

And I let them influence me to do things that I never would have done if I wasn't there. Okay. Right? So this is where I I say I started to write my testimony.

SPEAKER_01: 33:34

Let me ask you this because I didn't know I know in Mesa, like when we went to junior high school, and then we went from high school, junior high to high school, there were different junior highs that joined the high school that kids from different neighborhoods you didn't know. And now they're in their school. Was it like that in Chandler?

SPEAKER_06: 33:49

Yeah, there was definitely an increase in kids, but all the ones that were in my neighborhood, we were all there there together. Because where I grew up, um, again, extremely blessed. I grew up on horse property. So I didn't live in your typical neighborhood with sidewalks. Um, so my afternoon and evenings, I wasn't out at a park. Like my backyard was like a park, you know?

SPEAKER_04: 34:13

And so we did Were you doing chores and like did you have animals that you had to take care of? We had dogs. Okay.

SPEAKER_06: 34:19

Um, we didn't actually have horses, but um, I would say no, I didn't really even have a lot of chores. The chores I had I complained about. It was to keep my room clean, and I'd have to empty the dishwasher.

SPEAKER_04: 34:31

They love their little girl Katie. Amen. Amen.

SPEAKER_06: 34:35

And I had to get my homework done, which I always did. So, you know, but when I got into working, and then now I'm not just hanging out with people that are my own age either. So there was a lot of different dynamics that kind of funneled into my life as I'm gonna say a naive 16-year-old. And I lived a pretty sheltered life. And um and then I just I found this boyfriend.

SPEAKER_04: 35:02

Boys.

SPEAKER_06: 35:04

And um, this boyfriend was older? Uh I think a year maybe, not much. Um, but he was a high school dropout. Uh-huh. I didn't realize that at the time. He told me he went to a different school and graduated early. That wasn't true. Um, so it was a lot I found out after. Um but basically he took things from me that I can never get back.

SPEAKER_08: 35:27

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 35:28

And I started lying to my parents about what I was doing, where I was going. I lost all of my friends. Um he he took over my entire life in an unhealthy way. Yeah. And uh exerted dominance and control. It was a very unhealthy relationship. Okay. And I was convinced that I was gonna move out of my house because I kept butting heads with my mom. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 35:53

And that I She's trying to protect you and help you. And honey, no, you don't know, but you are dead set.

SPEAKER_06: 35:59

I love him. Exactly. Yeah. Right. Which every girl loves their first boyfriend. Yeah, well, until you don't.

SPEAKER_04: 36:05

Good girls are attracted to bad boys.

SPEAKER_06: 36:08

And I I would say that then, but today I'm gonna say no. My husband is perfect.

SPEAKER_04: 36:15

Love you, Justin. You're the best, buddy.

SPEAKER_06: 36:17

He's not a bad boy at all.

SPEAKER_01: 36:20

Let me ask you this. At the time, did you know he was being controlling and stuff like that?

SPEAKER_06: 36:24

No. I didn't learn all of those things until later in life. Yeah. Um, and it took a few uh several boyfriends after that for me to realize what it's like and what I what I need to be treated like.

SPEAKER_04: 36:37

Yeah, that's right. Um, and so kind of let me let me ask you this because I hear a lot of people that like because I'm surrounded by a bunch of men who a lot of them are raising young girls and they're growing up, and a lot of them are in the church and they're like serving. And I've heard a lot of them say that like they will look for what their dad is like in life, and like how how their dad treats their mom and the different relationships like that, that that's what a young girl would look for in their boyfriend or their future husband. Yeah, and from what you're the guys that you were picking weren't like dad.

SPEAKER_06: 37:25

No, no, I I don't even know that I would say that I picked them, I would say that they picked me.

SPEAKER_04: 37:31

Oh man.

SPEAKER_06: 37:32

And and I um that's real right there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 37:36

Because me coming out of the lifestyle I did, I looked for the good ones. Because the good ones had no clue. Exactly. And you could get them and train and Jesus, probably.

SPEAKER_01: 37:45

Well, well, a man that is help me the Lord narcissistic and controlling will look for someone who is naive and easily manipulated. Yeah, they know oh, I can control this one. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? So they'll they'll seek those ones out in particular. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 38:00

And I'm gonna say that into my adulthood now, I'm gonna consider this like a a character trait that I'm really proud of. I am nice to everybody.

SPEAKER_02: 38:14

Amen.

SPEAKER_06: 38:15

I choose to be nice and kind to everybody.

SPEAKER_03: 38:18

Amen. Um, amen.

SPEAKER_06: 38:21

And when I was a a younger person of myself, that's how I know this is a character trait. I was the same then most of the time, right? Like at my core, that's who I am, that's who I want to be. And so because I was nice to people, I would get taken advantage of from all the wrong people.

SPEAKER_02: 38:39

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 38:40

So now I'm obviously able to discern more of that because I have a little life experience under my belt. But that doesn't change me from being nice, right? It just helps me see being nice doesn't mean I have to bend over backwards and stuff, right? I'm not gonna get taken advantage of. It's not a sign of weakness, it's a character. Right.

SPEAKER_04: 38:59

It's actually a beautiful thing to see people who are kind and nice, man. Yeah. Because this world needs more of them.

SPEAKER_06: 39:05

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 39:06

Yeah, every time I see you, you smile and we're I know you're great.

SPEAKER_04: 39:09

Even when it's not good. That's great. I got back from Turkey and he told me this story. Yeah, I was waving at her and she saw, she walked right by me and gave the girl a hug. Oh, the girl behind me came running back to me. I was like, I love it. People are catching up, bro. It's great, man. God is good how he's what he's doing, and the the people that he's bringing, and the thing, you know what I mean? There's just I'm I'm on social and I see you with the other girl. I'm like, this is great. This is great, man. It's just real community that's real healthy. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 39:48

I'm an observer of people, and so I like I like to sit in the background and watch. And the times that I catch you, I see you, you're always smiling. You're always waving and loving on people. So that's something I can see in you. You're not just saying I'm a nice person, and I actually see you as doing that with other people. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 40:05

Yeah. So um, let's see, where were we?

SPEAKER_04: 40:09

Did you graduate high school? I did. You did? I did. Nice. In four years?

SPEAKER_06: 40:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_04: 40:13

Great, nice. It took me six or seven, but I did. Okay.

SPEAKER_06: 40:16

Yeah. Better late than never.

SPEAKER_04: 40:18

That's right, dude.

SPEAKER_06: 40:21

Yep. So I graduated and um Batch of Bear? Absolutely. Come home. Yep. Class of 08. Oh, I just disclosed my age. Totally good.

SPEAKER_04: 40:30

It's like I didn't want to share that. Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 40:34

Good boy. That just makes me feel old.

SPEAKER_04: 40:37

What were you, bud? 90 90.

SPEAKER_01: 40:39

90.

SPEAKER_06: 40:40

Wow. I was barely born. Wow. Like I lived a week in the 80s.

SPEAKER_07: 40:48

That's great.

SPEAKER_06: 40:49

Yeah. So yeah, I mean, I once I graduated, um, I like I said, I had a job transition where I worked at Home Depot.

SPEAKER_04: 40:59

So this you graduated in 2008 when the country and the the housing thing. Yeah. Did that affect your family and the the horse ranch or anything? Or anybody in your family?

SPEAKER_06: 41:10

Actually, yeah, because my dad was a general contractor. Oh. So he he worked for years at Honeywell. And then my dad had a lifelong dream to be a custom home builder. And he stepped out in faith to do that. And then in 08, everything blew up. Which this is this is his story to tell. Maybe he'll tell you one day. But he came home from work one day and he had um a message on our answering machine, if anyone remembers what those are. And it was blinking red. So we pushed the answering machine, and it was his old boss asking him if he would come back to Honeywell. Wow. And if he would have never got that call, I don't know that we would have been able to stay where we were because it provided stability. He then went back to Honeywell to provide for his family and he did custom homes on the side.

SPEAKER_01: 42:00

Nice. Wow. Your dad still lives in that home?

SPEAKER_06: 42:03

No. Oh, I was gonna say that. No.

SPEAKER_01: 42:05

That's been way cool.

SPEAKER_04: 42:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 42:06

Yeah. No, that's a that's a blessing.

SPEAKER_04: 42:08

The one that they built, the one he built. Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_06: 42:11

No, they sold that, I think, in 2012. All right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 42:14

Make some money. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he did. Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. Especially a custom.

SPEAKER_06: 42:21

Yeah. So when I started working at Home Depot, um You are 21.

SPEAKER_04: 42:28

18.

SPEAKER_06: 42:28

18. I was working there. Um, if you've ever been to Home Depot, it's a lot of guys. It's a sausage fest. Yeah, totally. Right? Who work there, who shop there. It's just a bunch of dudes. Yeah, it there's not a lot of women. And I was an 18-year-old female.

SPEAKER_03: 42:46

Oh man.

SPEAKER_06: 42:47

Okay. Um, I wanted to work at Home Depot because I thought that it would be better to work there because the store hours than at Fry's, where I was working sometimes till midnight. Wow.

SPEAKER_08: 42:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_06: 42:58

Okay. So I made that transition and I enjoyed it. And on day one, when I walked in to the room as a new hire, there were three men that God showed me. Like they stood out across all of these people. Wow. Um one of them sexually assaulted me. One of them was a groomsman in my wedding. And I married the other one. Really? Wow. So all three of these men stood out with purpose in my life.

SPEAKER_02: 43:34

Wow.

SPEAKER_06: 43:35

With divine purpose.

SPEAKER_02: 43:36

Wow.

SPEAKER_06: 43:38

Um, and I I had a lot of hardship when I worked at Home Depot, like a lot of hardship. Um, I was taken advantage of multiple times, and then my reputation at work was tainted because of the experiences that you know people said I was willingly participating in.

SPEAKER_04: 43:56

People suck. Absolutely. Yeah. Um, and I just want to stop and just say um I apologize for men and just the way that bags, God, man. There, I can't tell you, sis, how many women have come on here and shared about the very people, man, that we're supposed to protect them and keep our own.

SPEAKER_01: 44:18

It's just about every woman we've met, man, dude.

SPEAKER_04: 44:20

All the ladies, it's like, what are we doing, guys? We're hurting the most beautiful thing that God's given us, man. Uh so I just have to stop and say, Thank you. And thank you for being open and vulnerable with that because it's it's happening a lot, and it's sad.

SPEAKER_06: 44:39

Absolutely. And I think it was only when I came into the rooms of recovery that I realized that this happened way more than I ever thought. Yeah. Like I used to think that it was rare. Yeah. Um, and I wish that my parents could have protected me from the truth on that it's not, yeah, it's not rare.

SPEAKER_04: 44:57

Yeah. Um, but it did it didn't happen to you as a young kid in your home and with your family. No. No, it was it was after the one guy who wasn't the best influence, and well, I've already lost that, so now I'm on the here. And so my question to you, you you you said three of them were were pinpointed. The one who essayed, then the the groomsman and your f husband now. Yes. So I I want to say that the first one you picked was not the he the was that the bad one, the first one that you yeah, well, again, I was picked.

SPEAKER_06: 45:36

Dang, man. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 45:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 45:39

So um, and then the other one, um, super great guy, he was a really good friend of mine for a long time. And um, and he was a friend of my husband's. Okay. And so that's why he stood up with us when we got married. Amen. Okay. And was he's just an incredible human being.

SPEAKER_02: 45:58

Amen.

SPEAKER_06: 45:59

Um, but one thing I want to call attention to is I mentioned that my reputation was tainted when I worked there. So to be a young person at 18, 19 years old, um, and have two men take advantage of you at the same time and then share that in your place of employment. Jeez, wow that you were a willing participant destroys any level of professionalism that you are trying to establish, right?

SPEAKER_04: 46:27

Or your self-worth. Absolutely. And now you're just it was horrible. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 46:32

And then to know that other people saw that, right? And they believed that to be true. My husband heard those same rumors and married me, anyways. Wow. You're gonna freaking make me cry, dude. He married me anyways.

SPEAKER_04: 46:55

And um well, he probably got to know you, the real you absolutely and was like, wow, everything that I heard, none of that's true. Wow, Katie.

SPEAKER_06: 47:06

So when I talk about the self-worth and you know, knowing who I am, I I'm not saying I'm exempt from any of the promiscuity. There there, I definitely had a part, but I was also very victimized as well. Yeah, and so when when I started dating my husband, I was like, wow, he's a unicorn. He treats me with respect. Yeah, um, he wouldn't jump into bed with me. Sorry. I don't know. I hope he doesn't care that I say that. It's real.

SPEAKER_05: 47:39

It it is great.

SPEAKER_06: 47:41

And he he he chose to marry me anyways when I was awful, yeah and and felt like there I had no self-worth. I had nothing to give him, like he had to give me. And and so to be chosen by somebody like that, I felt I don't deserve this.

SPEAKER_04: 48:01

Come on. Um and you're you're helping people right now. There's there's people out there that feel have are maybe feeling exactly what you felt, and that unworthiness and that I don't deserve this. No, we do. You're a king's kid. God knows what we need, He knows who we need. Right.

SPEAKER_01: 48:22

Yeah, yeah. Can I ask you a tough question?

SPEAKER_06: 48:25

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 48:26

Would you say the unworthiness came from the promiscuity or the violation? Both. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 48:32

I think in in as a response to to the violation, I chose to be promiscuous, searching for love that I never had.

SPEAKER_04: 48:41

Wow. Did you start to blame yourself? Yes. Yeah. And it just gets worse.

SPEAKER_06: 48:47

Yeah, and and I'm here sharing my story. It's mine, but there's nothing different about mine compared to anyone else who's been victimized and prom promiscuous. Like it all these things line up to be similar, right? The self-worth, it pushed me way far away from God. I was looking for love in all the wrong places.

SPEAKER_04: 49:07

Um I was actually gonna ask. I was like, so after 16 with the car, you were just done with church. You weren't going to be able to do that. Oh, yeah, no. Okay.

SPEAKER_06: 49:17

But then when I started dating my husband, he was every Sunday he went to church. He went to Catholic church. Wow. I was like, oh, okay, good for you.

SPEAKER_04: 49:30

Wow. Yep. And um So how old were you when you started dating him?

SPEAKER_06: 49:36

19.

SPEAKER_04: 49:37

Really? Oh, so it was very quickly.

SPEAKER_06: 49:40

I was I was very young.

SPEAKER_04: 49:41

You you 18, Home Depot, bad experience. And then very soon after, it was like, oh okay. Wow.

SPEAKER_06: 49:52

So I dated him, I started dating him at 19, and I was married at 21.

SPEAKER_08: 49:59

Okay. Couple years. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 50:01

We were engaged a year and dated for a year, and he just knew. And I was on He knew. He knew.

SPEAKER_04: 50:07

He knew. Oh, I'm gonna have you on, buddy. There's a lot of guys, man, that just they see these girls, and they're they I'm gonna marry this one. Yeah, and I want that experience, God she's out there for you.

SPEAKER_01: 50:23

I'm gonna ask you another question. Would you say the first boyfriend you had at Fry's, did you how do I let's see? So did he put the uh process in your head that love equals sex? So you went looking to duplicate that or replicate that?

SPEAKER_06: 50:44

I don't know if he did that intentionally, but I think definitely uh that seed was planted somewhere along the way.

SPEAKER_04: 50:52

Yeah, like I'm just curious. I don't want to share your story because it's yours, but like he had he had older brothers, and uh there was an ex he was younger, and the older ones like got some, and of course, oh yeah, you got some, man. And to him it was like, oh, okay, so when I get some, then it leads to me being a man.

SPEAKER_01: 51:14

So what did that for me was is I remember my brother coming home and telling my mom that he had just gotten laid. And my mom like celebrating that with him, and looking at my other brother and asking him, When are you gonna get laid? Are you sure you're not gay and all this other stuff? So I'm and they're my brothers are five, seven, and eight years older than me. So me seeing that at 16, I'm like 10. Now I see this correlation between okay, mom is celebrating him having sex, the measurement of a man is having sex. So that led me to try to go get sex, you know what I mean? Because I want to be a man, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_06: 51:52

Yep.

SPEAKER_01: 51:52

So those things are planted as you know, that's just I don't know, it's weird.

SPEAKER_06: 51:56

Well, my parents always taught me like you wait till you're married, right? So once I started participating in these activities, I wasn't gonna tell them.

SPEAKER_02: 52:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 52:03

And I don't think I told my mom for a long time. Um, when I did finally tell her, she's like, Oh, I knew. Of course she did. Um, I don't know. If my dad listens to this podcast, it's maybe the first time he ever hears that. Um, unless my mom told him.

SPEAKER_01: 52:18

I saw something the other day I'm gonna turn into a shirt and it says marriage before sex is not a sin.

SPEAKER_06: 52:23

That's good.

SPEAKER_01: 52:24

Yeah, I'm like, I'm gonna make that into a shirt. Yep. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 52:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 52:28

So yeah. So, anyways, when I finally turned 21 and got married, and I was on cloud nine, yeah, thinking, okay, happily ever after.

SPEAKER_01: 52:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 52:39

Um, and I didn't realize that when we packed our bags for our honeymoon.

SPEAKER_01: 52:44

Okay, hold on a second. While you guys were dating, did you start going to church with them?

SPEAKER_06: 52:48

No.

SPEAKER_01: 52:48

No, really?

SPEAKER_06: 52:49

I think I went like once or twice, which was part of the reason why I think my mother-in-law wasn't a hundred percent a fan. Oh um, but I it just wasn't for me. And I know that that was God working in my heart now because I didn't want to be in a place where I felt condemned and shamed. Yeah. I needed to be in a place where I felt the love and grace of Christ.

SPEAKER_01: 53:12

Did your mother-in-law ever speak ill of you to your face? Or in front of you?

SPEAKER_06: 53:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 53:18

Really? That's that's challenging. My mom, my mom one time, not in front of my wife, but she told me one time, and she was like, I don't know why you I'm like, We are not doing that, mom. I've seen you do that with my older brothers. We are not doing that. I married her, I'm the only one that matters what I think about her. Keep all that to yourself.

SPEAKER_06: 53:36

Yeah, good for you.

SPEAKER_01: 53:37

Yeah. You know, you plant that seed of doubt in their mind, and you know, I just yeah, so I was just curious if that ever happened to you.

SPEAKER_06: 53:46

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 53:46

I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_06: 53:47

It's okay. Yeah. I mean, everything, God has used everything for good, and I believe that now. So when I endure trials that I'm going through currently, I know that 10, 15, 20 years from now, um that's God's gonna use it. Yeah, absolutely. And so this is actually really um I haven't really shared this except in a small group. Um but it's one of those moments where we think God is big and he can do things, and then and then he says, Hold my beer, let me really show you.

SPEAKER_02: 54:26

Come on, come on.

SPEAKER_06: 54:28

So um a few years ago, I had a friend who invited me to go to a trivia night at a at a local community bar. And I was like, Yeah, that sounds fun. And so my husband and I were gonna go. And then at the last minute, my husband got called, he had to work. And so um, I was like, Okay, well, are you comfortable with me still going? And he said, Yeah, you plan to go, I think you should go. And I was like, Okay. And he knew that the friend I was going with was a man. Yeah, um, and the trivia team, I didn't really know who else was gonna be there. I said, Well, if I feel uncomfortable, I'm just gonna come home. Yeah, and everything inside of me, with my knowledge of recovery and like just challenges that I've had in my marriage in the past, I was like, I don't know that this is the wisest decision.

SPEAKER_02: 55:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 55:18

But I did not have from God, I didn't have anything that said you need to stop.

SPEAKER_02: 55:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 55:24

So I was like, okay.

SPEAKER_02: 55:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 55:26

So I'm driving, I call one of my accountability partners and said, Hey, this is the situation, this is where I'm going. Um, and she's like, I don't know that that's a good idea. I was like, I know.

SPEAKER_08: 55:36

Wow.

SPEAKER_06: 55:36

And I was like, Okay, but I I just need you to know, yeah, because God hasn't stopped me yet. Yeah. And she was like, Okay. And you know, you kind of feel this like shame and doubt, and you're like, I don't know. Like, I'm kind of going against the grain here. Yeah. Um, but again, being in tune with the Holy Spirit, I'm like, he hasn't said like this is a hard stop. So, anyways, long story short, I get there, sit there with my friend, the other team members for the trivia show up, and one guy shows up that looks oddly familiar.

SPEAKER_02: 56:09

Really?

SPEAKER_06: 56:09

And I was like, Okay, where do I know him from? And so I didn't want to like out myself. Yeah. So we just were chatting, and I'm like, if I look familiar to him, maybe he'll say something.

SPEAKER_08: 56:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 56:23

Well, he didn't.

SPEAKER_08: 56:24

Really?

SPEAKER_06: 56:25

And so as time went on, he leaned over and he's like, So how's he said something that like triggered a memory, and I was like, wait a minute, we that's why you look familiar. I was like, we work together at Home Depot. Oh wow. And I was and he's like, Yeah, of course we did. So this guy, unique story, who heard all those rumors about me, was actually related to somebody else who assaulted me at a different job.

SPEAKER_04: 56:58

Jesus.

SPEAKER_06: 56:59

And God used him in this moment because uh he's you know, we were just small talking. Um, and I asked him, How's your cousin?

SPEAKER_04: 57:10

That's yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 57:11

And he said, Oh, you know, he found some Jesus guy.

SPEAKER_04: 57:17

What?

SPEAKER_06: 57:18

And I was like, really? He goes, Yeah, he's real different now. And I was like, Okay, yeah, and I had peace in my heart that one of the people who assaulted me when I was younger has found the Lord.

SPEAKER_04: 57:32

Wow.

SPEAKER_06: 57:33

And so, um, and this gentleman who was there.

SPEAKER_04: 57:37

This is recently, yes, this is within the last like five years. Where I had used, we were at like you were like 21.

SPEAKER_06: 57:44

Yeah, this is recent. This happened within the last I think five years.

SPEAKER_04: 57:48

You know what it meant to find the Lord, yes, so you know the power of Jesus, and so that's why when I got there, I was like, everything about this is not really wise.

SPEAKER_06: 58:02

Yeah, but God never said no. And then I realized why, because he had a big moment of healing for me there.

SPEAKER_08: 58:12

Amen.

SPEAKER_06: 58:12

And so when when I got home, I was like, oh my gosh, I have to tell my husband. Yeah, I got home and I said, You're never gonna guess who I saw at the bar, you're never gonna guess what happened and what we talked about.

SPEAKER_08: 58:26

Wow.

SPEAKER_06: 58:26

And God healed a piece of my heart that had been broken for so long. Wow, right? So when you've been sexually abused, it it rips you to the core. You have a, I'm gonna say a tainted soul. Yeah, the the cut goes so deep. And God used someone from my past who knew all of this as an innocent bystander, if you will, to share that one of my abusers has found the Lord. Wow.

SPEAKER_04: 58:59

That's great. That's really powerful, right? That's crazy. And and and both for you to receive some freedom and some healing, but to know that he's not out there hurting other people now.

SPEAKER_06: 59:12

Amen to that. That's the one where it's like, oh and the way that it was said was in such a mocking way.

SPEAKER_04: 59:20

Yeah. Oh, about Jesus? Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_06: 59:23

And I was like, okay, and I'm looking at the situation, like we're at a bar restaurant doing trivia, right? This is not a place where church people hang out. It just isn't. And when I was there and I and I was met with that, I just thought to myself, exactly that. These people will never come into church, but church people can go here.

SPEAKER_01: 59:49

That's right, sis. Yeah, I find it amazing that in this day and age, that a guy walked into a bar and said, found some Jesus guy, like he's never heard of him or something. Right?

SPEAKER_04: 59:57

You know what I mean? That baffles me. Hasn't had An encounter doesn't know the power of God. What's it say? The cross to the world is foolishness, but to us, it's the very power of God.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:07

I had a lady at Walmart. I walk by and I'm like, God bless you, ma'am. And she's like, Oh, you're one of those Christian people.

SPEAKER_08: 1:00:12

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:13

And I was like, my mind, I'm like, what? I'm like, in this day and age in America, people never heard like I don't know. It just blows me away.

SPEAKER_06: 1:00:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:24

I got a story for you, too.

SPEAKER_06: 1:00:25

Okay, tell me.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:26

So me and Rowdy decide we want to do jail ministry.

SPEAKER_06: 1:00:29

Woo! That was great.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:31

So we go through the process, we get approved, we're going to the uh county jail, and the chaplain is taking us around, showing us where we're gonna be, and he's like, okay, this is these are the pods you guys are gonna do. These are our essays. No, he didn't tell us that. He did. I didn't know until later. No, he did, because I remember saying in my head, really God? Really, God? I'm for prison. Those are the people that I spent 11 years in prison trying to kill.

SPEAKER_04: 1:01:00

Yeah. We get a mark and a good star, a gold star when we get the essays.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:04

You get a, you know what I mean? I recognize. And so I leave there and I'm like, I'm like, really, God? This is the people we have to love on and minister to? You couldn't send me to people that murdered somebody or drug addicts. You gotta send me to the people that I wanted to kill. Come on, dad. This is what he said to me. Are they not my sons, too? Amen.

SPEAKER_04: 1:01:27

And in that moment, I was like, God used those that time and that season to change us.

SPEAKER_10: 1:01:32

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04: 1:01:33

Those are his kids too.

SPEAKER_10: 1:01:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:36

Still to this day, it just blows me away. People that we see as the bottom of the barrel. Oh, they're the they're the lepers nowadays. The least of these that we that we read about in the Bible. That these people are just filth, garbage, just all these different things. But to God. So I'm gonna I'm gonna share something with you. They're still sons.

SPEAKER_06: 1:01:59

Which means that they're royalty too.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:01

Amen. King's kids. And that's hard because we see it differently from the world's perspective. Absolutely. But I'll never for this day, I'll still, as much as that that act hurts me and it makes me want to be like, God damn you, dude.

SPEAKER_06: 1:02:17

Yeah, there's also a part of me that's like, come on, God, you gotta and a repentant heart is is radically changed, right? So when you're walking into a situation like that, and we don't have to see them as the royalty that God calls them unless they are repenting.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:34

Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_06: 1:02:35

If they if they if they don't repent, then they can go to hell. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:39

Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_06: 1:02:40

But if someone is truly repentant of what they're doing, um, then they are a co-heir with Christ, just like me.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:47

And I and we spent that next couple years just loving those dudes. As hard as that was for us, God showed up in some amazing. As hard as that was for us, man. We just went in there and just we put that aspect of it out of our minds. And we just went in there and loved them as because they were the ones that were coming to church. So obviously they were seeking. Come on, man. They were looking for God to come and change their lives.

SPEAKER_04: 1:03:07

And um, man, it just how many of them felt unworthy and unlovable? Yeah, you know what I mean, and broken. And we were just able to go in there. It's it was me, my mom, and my dad. Yeah, we all went in there, and it got it wasn't until later where one of the guys did something weird with mom's hand, and it was like, okay, no more physical touch. And now it's like, I gotta protect my mom. We broke all the rules. Yeah, oh, it was crazy. We broke all the rules.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:32

God just rolled out the red carpet. Because we knew that we were there to crazy to pour out the spirit of God on these men. And we did. There was a time literally, sis. We would turn lights off where we walked in there, right? And we had this, we had this setup that we would do, and we went in there one time and we were like, I told Riley, I said, My God wants to do something different tonight. He's like, Well, take the lead, dude. You know what I mean? And we told these guys, the Bible says in James 4:10 that if you humble yourself before the Lord, that he will lift you up. Yeah. I said, Me and my son are going to example that for you, what it looks like to humble yourselves before the Lord. We got on our face in front of 30 inmates.

SPEAKER_04: 1:04:07

Started we were in chairs and on our knees with our heads in our chairs, and then the worship music started, and we were on the ground.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:15

We were on the ground, head down to the ground, crying out to God. Praying. And there was a time God said, Get up, stand up. And we stood up, all 30 dudes, every one of them, were face down on the floor, praying, crying. And God told us, Go pray for them. That's amazing. Go pray for them. And we walked around and just started putting our hands on them, praying for them. One of them fell out. Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_05: 1:04:39

How incredible.

SPEAKER_04: 1:04:40

It was amazing.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:41

Yeah. That was probably one of the most powerful times I've ever seen God move.

SPEAKER_04: 1:04:45

So I want to I want to share with you. I think I've I've I've shared with you before. Um the lepers are that very group of people nowadays. Yeah. Um, they they can't, there's there's no prison. They're literally targets and being marked for death. Yep. Um they get out of prison or jail and they've got to be in a whole separate place or they they will be killed. Um they get out and try to find a recovery home, a halfway house, teen channel. Nobody takes them. Nobody. You have that on your that's one of the first questions they ask. Do you have a sexual assault uh towards kids on your record?

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:26

And if it's a if they want to come to church, they have to wait until church service has started and sit in the back. Come in late, they have to get up before church service is over and leave before church. And be escorted out before church and the kids are apt to let people know who they are and what they've done, and they can never be around children. Yeah. I mean, that's great. I love that they they're protecting the body of Christ like that.

SPEAKER_04: 1:05:48

But there were there's no there's nothing about that that's normal. Yeah. And so I through Speak Life really believe that God is gonna use our ministry for these homes so that some of these men can really get rehabilitation and have real encounters with Jesus. Yeah, we can show these guys what it is to have a repentative heart, what it is to tell yourself no and walk with Jesus and follow him.

SPEAKER_06: 1:06:19

Well, and we're not exempt from consequences, right? No, of course, when something like that happens, there there's worldly consequences even if they are able to get some of their freedom back, right? Because if they've gotten out of prison and now they're living in society functioning again, operating legally, yeah, there's still consequence. And what I find miraculous is that again, a true repentant heart, think about the freedom they will have in eternity.

SPEAKER_03: 1:06:51

Come on, right?

SPEAKER_06: 1:06:53

That that's a freedom that even I don't have here, and I don't have anything on my record. So to be free in Christ is to truly be free indeed. And somebody like that realizes the depth of grace that I may never experience. That's real, right? So that is um I'm always humbled when I think about those situations that criminals are not exempt from the consequences here on earth, right? Justice will be served, but with Christ, that freedom is a new freedom for them.

SPEAKER_04: 1:07:29

So I I God showed me this picture one time about how far down somebody can go. Because I went to a very dark place. I was very, very so if this is normal, how far down you go, God redeems it, and it's how far up you go. The the lower you go and the farther you go into the abyss, God redeems that and uses it, and he allows those people to go even farther with him. And it only comes from what is it, what's the Bible say? Those who are forgiven much love much. And until you've walked with the devil and held his hand and seen him in people, and those were the people you were hanging out with. Yeah, when God gets a hold of you and you come to the to the light, it becomes it's what it's what I've experienced.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:32

Well, they talk about how if you don't know that you're living bad, how can you know that you're the Savior? Amen. You know what I mean? Amen. You know what I'm saying? So now put things good. Now put that to a measure of knowing that you've done one of the most horrible things that you can do and still find the forgiveness of God. Grace of God.

SPEAKER_06: 1:08:53

But by the world's standards. Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:55

Right. But that person who knows the forgiveness of God, how that just I would never want to commit those acts, but I hope one day I can understand that type of forgiveness in my life, of God. To know that even though I've done these low things, and I've done some pretty little things, and I've been forgiven a lot. So I understand the forgiveness of God. That's why I just talk about it all the time, you know what I mean? But to have to have that measure of forgiveness gotta has gotta be a phenomenal feeling.

SPEAKER_06: 1:09:26

And we will know that. Yeah, amen. We will know that because our sin doesn't have a different weight in the eyes of God. So it by worldly standards, we may not understand, but when we get to the gates of heaven, we will understand. We're all made equal. Amen.

SPEAKER_04: 1:09:43

The blood absolutely so we are you're 21 and you start dating Justin.

SPEAKER_06: 1:09:51

Well, I'm I'm married at 21 now.

SPEAKER_04: 1:09:53

Oh, I mean, sorry. What was your wedding like? Was it nice? Was it big? You were so young. What did mom and dad feel about it?

SPEAKER_06: 1:10:00

I was so young.

SPEAKER_04: 1:10:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 1:10:01

Yep.

SPEAKER_04: 1:10:02

Um But how old were they when they got married?

SPEAKER_06: 1:10:05

Uh I think they were 24, 25.

SPEAKER_04: 1:10:08

Couple couple years.

SPEAKER_06: 1:10:09

Yeah, I was very young when I got married.

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:12

You think that's young to get married?

SPEAKER_06: 1:10:13

I do. Twenty-one.

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:14

21? I don't know. She's uh young. You're old enough to drink, you're old enough to vote, you're old enough to smoke, you're old enough to do a lot of things.

SPEAKER_06: 1:10:21

Well, I had never I had never underage drank. So I never even had a first drink until I was 21. Really?

SPEAKER_04: 1:10:28

Mm-hmm. You were a rule follower.

SPEAKER_06: 1:10:31

Um, I mean, not really. I just was compliant.

SPEAKER_04: 1:10:34

Okay. I didn't want to get in trouble.

SPEAKER_06: 1:10:37

Basically, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:41

That's real, dude.

SPEAKER_04: 1:10:43

That was compliant. No way to look at it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:46

Not a rule follower, it's just compliant.

SPEAKER_05: 1:10:51

That's the same thing. But like, I definitely broke rules.

SPEAKER_06: 1:10:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_04: 1:10:56

But like I looked for rules to break.

SPEAKER_06: 1:10:59

Even to this day now, I think rules are kind of just a guideline. I look for the gray area.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:04

Amen.

SPEAKER_06: 1:11:04

And I will find it because it is what it is.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:07

Did you have a nice wedding though?

SPEAKER_06: 1:11:08

I did, yeah. Yeah. Big? It was very big. Oh.

SPEAKER_04: 1:11:12

Yeah. Wow. It was literally a day you'll never forget.

SPEAKER_06: 1:11:15

It was a fairy tale.

SPEAKER_08: 1:11:16

Really?

SPEAKER_06: 1:11:17

So what I was saying, I think, when you stepped out, Rowdy, was when we got married and we went off on our honeymoon, we packed way more into our baggage than what we signed up for.

SPEAKER_08: 1:11:29

Nice. Oh.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:31

So did you comment on his turkey trip about packing too big?

SPEAKER_06: 1:11:34

No, I mean like literally, like metaphorically, we did.

SPEAKER_04: 1:11:39

We had some heavy baggage. You guys had some stuff you had to work through. Yes. Yes. So there was no premarital counseling.

SPEAKER_06: 1:11:46

Well, we did some through the Catholic Church, but they just kind of skimmed the surface, you know. And I wanted to get married. So we said all the right things.

SPEAKER_04: 1:11:55

Wow. Yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_08: 1:11:57

So you were compliant.

SPEAKER_06: 1:11:58

Yes. I wanted to get married. And in the Catholic Church, you can't get married if there's if you break if you aren't compliant.

SPEAKER_04: 1:12:09

Okay. Wow. Okay.

SPEAKER_06: 1:12:11

They have a lot of rules there. Okay. And so um, yeah, we I I'm not gonna say that we shouldn't have gotten married in the Catholic Church, but I think definitely there were areas where if we were a hundred percent honest, probably wouldn't have happened. Probably not. We probably would have been told not right now. Okay. And who wants to be told that when you're ready to get married? Amen.

SPEAKER_03: 1:12:36

Right?

SPEAKER_06: 1:12:36

So, and I knew already, I didn't feel bad about this, but I knew we're gonna get married in the Catholic Church. This is a church that our parents and our grandparents, my grandparents went to. And then I'm gonna move on because Catholic is not for me.

SPEAKER_03: 1:12:49

Yeah. Oh, you you knew that. I knew that. Okay, wow.

SPEAKER_06: 1:12:52

And but I never really talked about that with Justin because I was like, well, um, we'll just deal with that later. So it's not that big of a deal. And now I'm realizing how big of a deal it is that you're equally yoked. Amen. Yep. So yeah, we had some stuff. We got married. I got married young. Justin's four years older than me. Um, so he would have been 25. And um, we had some stuff.

SPEAKER_04: 1:13:16

Yeah. And then we You talked about college. Did you go into college right away?

SPEAKER_06: 1:13:24

So I did my associate's degree before I got married.

SPEAKER_04: 1:13:28

Oh wow. And then while you're working at Home Depot?

SPEAKER_06: 1:13:31

Yes. Wow.

SPEAKER_04: 1:13:32

You're going to school, you're working. What are you? A Sun Devil?

SPEAKER_06: 1:13:36

Ew.

SPEAKER_04: 1:13:37

Oh no. Oh no. What are you?

SPEAKER_06: 1:13:39

Lopes up. TCO.

SPEAKER_04: 1:13:42

TC is okay.

SPEAKER_06: 1:13:43

Yeah. So I did my associate's.

SPEAKER_04: 1:13:47

We're gonna talk about that school down the video. We're done. Scare me for a second.

SPEAKER_08: 1:13:57

I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_06: 1:13:58

Yeah, so um I went, I did my associate's degree at community college. Okay. And then I had this lifelong dream to be an architect. Oh. And I got accepted to ASU's architecture program. Let's go, Sun Devils! But I was faced with, do I go and do this or do I get married? And I really wanted to get married. We were gonna buy a house, and I'm like, ASU will always be there. Yeah, I'm gonna get married. Okay. Because their program was really rigorous, and if I didn't do well, they would kick you out of the program. Like basically every time they send people through the program, two thirds of them get cut out. And so I wanted to make it. So I was like, okay, I I'm not gonna do this right now. Yeah, I'm gonna get married, we're gonna get a house, and it'll always be there. Again, God's design there. Um, and so once I got married, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:14:50

You don't know what that stress of that school would have done to you guys being newlyweds and just like, what did I sign up for? So, yeah, that's that's God protecting what he does.

SPEAKER_06: 1:15:04

Yeah, yep. And so, and he changed the desire of my heart too, once we got married. So, when I thought I wanted to design homes and do architecture and stuff, which I still really love design and decorating and all of that, um, it's not a desire of my heart to do for a living. Yeah, and so he changed my heart over time, also.

SPEAKER_04: 1:15:23

I love that you wanted to do what your dad did. I love that.

SPEAKER_06: 1:15:26

Yeah, that's probably where I got it from.

SPEAKER_04: 1:15:29

Oh, yeah, I'm sure you probably there were countless hours you saw dad drawing or doing something or working or hearing about plans or houses, and it's like, oh yep. Oh, yeah. That's cool. Yeah, that is cool.

SPEAKER_06: 1:15:42

So, yeah, so we we got married and off we went, and um, it was a couple years into our where was the honeymoon? Cancun.

SPEAKER_04: 1:15:51

Oh, okay. All right, you've been there, right?

SPEAKER_01: 1:15:53

Buddy, no, that was your mom and sister.

SPEAKER_04: 1:15:54

Oh, yeah. My mom wins these trips through Circle K and takes us all over the world. It's great. I know. I got the best one though. Amen, buddy. Amen. Cabo. Oh, nice, okay. Yeah, oh yeah, Cancun was me.

SPEAKER_05: 1:16:10

Yeah, didn't you just do that?

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:12

Oh, Cancun was Kaiden. Cancun was Kaiden? Yes, remember the big rats? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Or whatever they were. I don't know what they were, but they were big animals, as they said. Yeah. They were in the they were in the weird part where it was like secluded out in the middle of nowhere.

SPEAKER_04: 1:16:26

In the middle of the jungle. What do you think is gonna be out there? Yeah, that's big animals. Some big rodents.

SPEAKER_00: 1:16:33

Yikes. You got cobble too. I thought so.

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:36

Yeah, okay. I was still better.

SPEAKER_06: 1:16:38

Yeah, so um. So that's where we went on our honeymoon. Okay. And um, basically a couple years into marriage, we started to realize like we I got some anger issues.

SPEAKER_00: 1:16:52

You did you did?

SPEAKER_06: 1:16:52

I did. Really? I'm not gonna speak his story. I'll let him tell you. I'll let you I'll let him tell his story.

SPEAKER_01: 1:17:03

Prior to this, you you don't think you had anger issues, or you did, you just didn't acknowledge it, or it came out in this.

SPEAKER_06: 1:17:08

I think it came out in this because I didn't have my parents at home. Oh like I was on my own. And so, like, I was known for um like I would put my fist through walls. Really? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:17:21

At home or in marriage?

SPEAKER_06: 1:17:23

In marriage. Oh, if I did that at home, my throat would have been slit.

SPEAKER_04: 1:17:27

Oh mom and dad weren't having it.

SPEAKER_06: 1:17:30

They were not having that. I mean, I say that loosely, right? But I would have been dead meat. And so when I got on my own, I was like, I can do whatever I want. Oh, and so when I got mad, it was like uncontrollable rage. I would just beat the shit um the tar out of these walls. Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 1:17:47

And um, that's what we're bringing that on.

SPEAKER_06: 1:17:51

We Justin and I would fight.

SPEAKER_01: 1:17:53

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_06: 1:17:54

Mm-hmm. Yeah. In the beginning of marriage, we had some pretty gnarly fights. Really? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04: 1:17:58

Would it just come, is it something that would just blanket you and cover you and you just lose it?

SPEAKER_06: 1:18:03

Yeah, I would say definitely. Like I had some rage.

SPEAKER_04: 1:18:06

That's that's totally spiritual.

SPEAKER_06: 1:18:08

I I would believe that. Oh, yeah. But I think a lot of it too was me being dysregulated. Like I definitely had a part in that.

SPEAKER_01: 1:18:15

What does that mean? I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_06: 1:18:16

Just like um broken, unable to manage my emotions appropriately.

SPEAKER_04: 1:18:21

Process correctly. Yeah, yeah. You're so young at this point. Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 1:18:26

And I didn't really have experience.

SPEAKER_04: 1:18:28

Well, yeah. You didn't go through the that's what I love about LifeLink and how they with newlyweds and stuff, they really dive into a bunch of different stuff so that the young ones can really work through some things that they need. Because we have to have courageous conversations with the people that we're gonna spend the rest of our life with and know what they want and what you want, and really work through some stuff. And it sounds like, like you said, they just kind of covered it up a little general one. And okay, you're married. Now you get to work through some stuff. Right. Okay. Okay. That's real.

SPEAKER_06: 1:19:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:19:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 1:19:08

So we would fight, um, and then we would make up, and then we would fight, and then we would make up, and it was like this insanity cycle. Um, and one one night, my girlfriend invited me to go to a women's event. And I was like, what is that? Okay.

SPEAKER_04: 1:19:26

Amen.

SPEAKER_06: 1:19:27

So I went. It was a church thing. I did not know that.

SPEAKER_04: 1:19:31

You wouldn't have gone if you knew.

SPEAKER_06: 1:19:33

I don't know that I wouldn't have gone, but I probably would have been a little more hesitant. Like, I don't know. Anyways, and I wanted to hang out with her. So I went and it like I heard from the Lord. Wow. And so I I went home and I told Justin, I was like, I think we need to go to that church for like, you know, a mass is what I called it, because I didn't know it was called a service.

SPEAKER_04: 1:19:55

What what did he tell you at that conference?

SPEAKER_06: 1:19:58

I don't know that that was the time I heard specifically something, but like I just felt the presence of the Holy Spirit in a way that I had never felt before.

SPEAKER_05: 1:20:06

Amen.

SPEAKER_06: 1:20:06

And so we went to church there, and um, it was not the church for us, but it got us talking about finding a church for you. Yes, because he was in the Catholic faith because that's how he was raised, that's what he knew. But when I started asking questions of like, why do you go there? What are you looking for? What's important to you? Um, we had great questions.

SPEAKER_04: 1:20:31

Yes, great questions.

SPEAKER_06: 1:20:33

We had a lot of dialogue surrounding these things because I said, Well, I don't think the Catholic Church is gonna work for me. And so then we had to talk about what I liked and what I didn't like. And so we were now venturing. And so I have an uncle who lives 3,000 miles away who um left Where in Australia? Uh Maryland.

SPEAKER_04: 1:20:54

Maryland, okay.

SPEAKER_06: 1:20:54

I mean 3,000.

SPEAKER_05: 1:20:56

That's I think that's further than Australia.

SPEAKER_06: 1:20:59

Just a guest, man. So we I called him because he was raised Catholic also, and then chose to pursue relationship with Christ. So good. And he would ask me often when I would spend time with him questions like, you know, how's your relationship with the Lord? And you know, do you read your Bible? And what do you think about this? And like I didn't know it then, but he was ministering to me as a as a young person and um planting seeds that many people now have watered. Come on, right? And so when Justin and I were talking about finding a church, I said, I I gotta call my uncle. He'll he'll know, he'll be able to tell us where to go. Wow.

SPEAKER_08: 1:21:38

That's great.

SPEAKER_06: 1:21:39

And so I said, Where should we go to church? And he was like, Well, um, I can't just tell you where to go, but here's some things to look for. He said, You need to look for a Bible teaching church. And I was like, Well, I don't know the Bible, so how do we do that?

SPEAKER_08: 1:21:53

Come on.

SPEAKER_06: 1:21:54

And so basically it is. It was just it was the real truth. So and so I found a couple churches and we visited them. And once we visited them, I sent him the website. Okay. And your uncle. Yeah. So he could read through the club. I said, Can you check this out for me? Maybe watch a sermon or something. Um, and then when he would come visit, he would go with us. Cool.

SPEAKER_04: 1:22:16

And so um Wow, so that is really like your first quote unquote spiritual father in your life.

SPEAKER_06: 1:22:23

He's yes, really he's my he was um in the Catholic faith, he was my godfather. Okay, but because he wasn't practicing anymore, um They kick him out. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04: 1:22:33

It's different.

SPEAKER_06: 1:22:34

It I will always see him as yes, a spiritual father. Amen.

SPEAKER_04: 1:22:38

Amen.

SPEAKER_06: 1:22:38

And so um, when he told me, you know, you need to look for these things, and he said, and then find a group and do something with them. Great. And you're like, what the heck does that mean? Like you're talking about playing soccer, having a barbecue. What do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_04: 1:22:56

That's real, right there.

SPEAKER_06: 1:22:57

So when we finally landed on a church, life group, I saw on the website they have a group. So I clicked join a group, and I was like, this is really weird. We went into somebody's home, we didn't know who any of them were. Super awkward.

SPEAKER_04: 1:23:12

And we that's the way you do it. Yes.

SPEAKER_06: 1:23:15

And I was again compliance, just following what my uncle told me to do.

SPEAKER_04: 1:23:20

Just doing what I'm told. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 1:23:22

And so we we joined this life group that was part of our church, and we were with them for four years, the whole time that we lived out in Queen Creek. And we learned so much about the Bible. And it was someone in that group that invited me for the very first time to go to celebrate recovery. Really?

SPEAKER_04: 1:23:40

Oh, can I ask you what church in Queen Creek?

SPEAKER_06: 1:23:42

You can ask.

SPEAKER_04: 1:23:43

Okay, but she doesn't have to answer. I wasn't pushing. I wasn't pushing. Totally good, buddy.

SPEAKER_00: 1:23:51

I get how she operates, brother. And she wants to tell you, she'll tell you. She'll let you know. I'd rather not discuss that.

SPEAKER_03: 1:23:58

Amen.

SPEAKER_06: 1:23:59

So we were part of that group for a long time. That's great. And um, and it was it was an incredible group that was life-changing for us.

SPEAKER_04: 1:24:07

So he that's amazing that you start out like that. That's beautiful. That's the way. Just dive in. If you are watching this, if you're listening to this, you show up at a church, man, you don't know what to do, and you feel uncomfortable and you feel awkward and you don't know nobody. Go on the website, look for a group, and join it. Yep. Best thing you can do. You're literally just jumping over the fear and everything that's that the enemy is trying to keep you isolated and away from relationships and out of community. Um, so what that's exactly what you do. For the longest time here, they would talk about we do life together.

SPEAKER_01: 1:24:42

And I'm like, what the hell are you guys talking about? I see you on Sunday for about 45 minutes. I do not do life with you guys.

SPEAKER_04: 1:24:51

How many people do that?

SPEAKER_01: 1:24:52

And it went to church. But you would hear it like almost every Sunday. Oh man, we do life together. I'm like, what the hell are you guys talking about? Until we went to our first life group. And then it was like, oh.

SPEAKER_05: 1:25:04

You figured out what doing life with them meant.

SPEAKER_01: 1:25:06

What you mean? We actually get to come to your house, sit with you for an hour, have a conversation, talk about some things, and get to know each other. Yep. That's what we're doing. I remember telling Pastor Lacey, I know what you mean now. Every time I hear you say that, I'm like, I know what you mean now. Like for the longest time, it blew me away. Like, what the hell are you talking about? I don't do life with none of you people. I come on Sunday, I go home and I do what I do, and I come back on Sunday and I'm no none of you. And now I get it now.

SPEAKER_06: 1:25:32

Life happens in circles, not rows.

SPEAKER_01: 1:25:34

So good. So good. It does. And it drives me nuts when people come to a church and they don't do that. And then they want to sit there and talk to me. And they complain about everything. I'm like, You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04: 1:25:43

Bro, did you talk to any? They didn't love me.

SPEAKER_01: 1:25:46

Or they come in at the last minute and they take off as soon as the message is over, and then you see them and you're like, oh dude, where were you at? Oh, I and then they want, well, nobody said nothing to me. Well, dude, you were in and out before anybody had a chance.

SPEAKER_06: 1:25:58

See, there's a season for that.

SPEAKER_01: 1:26:00

There is a lot of it. There is. There is. Amen. Yeah. We I had that season. We were at Mountain View Church out in Queen Creek. And Oh, Jesus, that was when I first got a chance. I was a I was a I was a Sunday dude. Yeah. You know what I mean? And it wasn't until I finally we went to a men's group. I went to finally went to a men's group. And I'm sitting in this men's group, and that's when I realized there's more to church than just Sunday services. You know what I mean? And this is how I found this church. I asked God, I'm like, there's gotta be more. And he told me, Find Pastor Tom. Come on. That's what I did. You know what I mean? And thank you, God. First I call I come, I find him here, and I'm like, dude, God told me to find you, I don't know what to do. And he's like, Come to this life group. You know what I mean? That's great. He did, bro. That's great. And it was a it was all men's life group. I'm like, cool, you know what I mean? And I go to this men's life, and I'm fresh, I'm like a year and a half out of prison. And I'm sitting in this life group, I'm chatted up, bro. And professor at ASU Polytech, uh, businessman who just lost a million dollars in a business deal, a real estate agent who makes, you know, half a million dollars a year, all these predominant men. And here I am, a mechanic making$25,000,$30,000 a year, fresh out of prison. And I'm looking at these men and I'm like, I am in the wrong circle. I have nothing in common with these dudes. And so I remember leaving that first live group, calling my wife, and I'm like, I'm not going back. She's like, Yeah, you are. I'm like, no, I got nothing in common with these dudes. And I'm telling her, this guy, this guy, this guy. She's like, Yeah, you know what? Just go back one more time, give it another chance. You'll get you. I'm like, all right. So I went back. And thank you, God. I stayed. And I decided to get baptized towards the end of that live group session. I decided I want to get baptized. And every one of them men showed up to support me getting baptized. And in that moment, in that moment, God showed me that I almost let economic insecurities keep me from some brothers who spiritually wanted to support me. And even though I told them everything I've been through and what I've done, still came and celebrated me getting baptized. Because all I saw was the dollars. All I saw was their place in the world.

SPEAKER_04: 1:28:08

Status. You know what I mean? What you don't have.

SPEAKER_01: 1:28:10

Yeah. Yeah, like these dudes are like here, I'm here. And then the reality is in the kingdom of God, we are here.

SPEAKER_06: 1:28:18

There's no socioeconomic.

SPEAKER_01: 1:28:21

We're both brothers, we're both the same God. It's the same, you know what I mean? We see this as people. You know what I mean? But in God's world, we're here. You know what I mean? And I'd never forget that. That life group forever changes.

SPEAKER_06: 1:28:32

Be in the world, not of the world.

SPEAKER_01: 1:28:34

That's good. But that's how important life groups are.

SPEAKER_06: 1:28:36

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 1:28:37

Is that those people will come and support you when you get baptized. Amen. And I love we we testify here all the time at church about life groups and how people was going through a hard time. Come on, brother. How that life group showed up spiritually, emotionally, financially for these people to get through these hardships. And it's just It changed my life. That's where things really happen in the church. Sunday is not Sunday is Sundays are great, don't get me wrong. It's corporate worship, right?

SPEAKER_06: 1:29:01

It's very different to be corporately worshiping together and then to literally be the church and serve in community together.

SPEAKER_01: 1:29:10

It's different, man. It's different.

SPEAKER_06: 1:29:12

And there were there's vivid examples in the Bible where Christ led corporate worship and he did things intimately with his disciples. And they're two different experiences, but well needed.

SPEAKER_04: 1:29:28

So my first uh life group was I had just gotten out of rehab from a bad relapse in 2019, and it's just after COVID. And we start up a uh Queen Creek life group at my pat one of my pastors um that serves here with him and his wife over there in Queen Creek. And this life group just grew. Oh, yeah. We've heard all these stories about how oh, every life group as they go on, they get smaller and smaller and smaller. And this one. Group. We have semesters here of life groups.

SPEAKER_01: 1:30:02

Semesters. When the semester was over, we're like, we're not done. We're going to continue. We're going to keep getting together every week, and we're going to and it went like almost a whole year.

SPEAKER_04: 1:30:12

So check this out. I during my life group, I have to go away for 10 days for drinking and driving, not really being the best driver again.

SPEAKER_07: 1:30:22

Is that bad?

SPEAKER_04: 1:30:24

Wait a minute. You were going to church and drinking and driving? Oh, you stinner!

SPEAKER_00: 1:30:28

I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_04: 1:30:29

I'm just kidding. But so I had a DUI that I had to take care of from 2020. And I'm in this life group, and these people bring in these copies of this paper, and it says each of the 10 days that I'm locked up, 7 a.m. and 7 p.m., and everybody in the life group picked a slot that they were literally going to pray for me while I was in jail during this time.

SPEAKER_05: 1:30:54

That is incredible.

SPEAKER_04: 1:30:55

Okay. So this is how I go, and my whole thing, I was going to go in on a water fast and do 10 days and tell all the inmates about Jesus they're all getting Jesus. I got like six days in and got sick, and it was the whole thing, man. So I get released and I get released from up in Flagstaff. And I'm like, I don't know who I think it was you. I called dad. I'm like, man, I'm out. I'm out, man. I'm free. And he's like, where are you? And I'm like, I'm at the bus stop. And he's like, go back to the jail. Dude, they just let me out. I don't want to go back to the jail, man. So go back to the jail. Like, okay. Never has he said, go back to the jail. He's like, Where yeah, I'll come and get you. You know, that's what I was expecting, him or mom. And so I go back to the jail, and there's a caravan of men from the church, from the life group that had driven up there to get me, bring me back home, but first take me to breakfast. Take me. I'm like, you guys don't understand. People don't get released from jail or prison and get a caravan of people to take them home. People get released and they're like, How am I getting home? Where who am I calling? What am I doing? So to experience that, I knew that I was a part of something very special. Sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:32:16

And it was cool because they were adamant. We want to do this. It wasn't something he put them up to. Don't say nothing to them. We want to surprise them. And we got like three or four dudes that are going to go. I'm like, have at it, dude.

SPEAKER_06: 1:32:27

The love of Christ.

SPEAKER_01: 1:32:28

Man, it tripped me out, dude. Honestly, I was just glad I didn't have to put that pick as the thing. It's the little things in life. Amen.

SPEAKER_05: 1:32:39

Hey, sometimes it's a sacrifice to take a long drive to go do something like that.

SPEAKER_04: 1:32:44

Oh, God is good. But life groups.

SPEAKER_01: 1:32:46

That's what life groups.

SPEAKER_06: 1:32:48

Yes, we actually got baptized um in the church, and two people, a couple that we had connected with, they baptized us. Come on. And so it was a it was really transformational for us. And then we ended up moving um to the house that we're in now. So um, and then we found a new church, and so we were um we were really sad to see that life group end, but we knew God had a different season for us.

SPEAKER_01: 1:33:18

You said something before we got on up our little rabbit trail. That that church you were at up there was the first place that you were in introduced to celebrate recovery. Yes. Why how did that come about? Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 1:33:30

Well, so I would I had nobody just stumbles into celebrate recovery.

SPEAKER_01: 1:33:34

It's usually brought up by somebody. Well, I yeah, it's by somebody.

SPEAKER_06: 1:33:38

That's what happened. Is I was kind of struggling like with some anxiety. Okay. Um, and obviously I had some anger issues. Nah. I didn't talk as transparently in group about the extent of my anger, but I did tell them, like, oh yeah, I probably have some anger problems. So this lady pulled me off to the side and she said, Have you ever heard of Celebrate Recovery? I was like, I don't know what that is.

SPEAKER_02: 1:34:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 1:34:02

And so she told me about it, and I was like, Well, I guess I can check it out. Yeah. And so I went and I thought it was super weird. Um but I didn't have any friends at church either. So because I went there and they had small group and it was um women were with women, I was like, Oh, perfect. I'm gonna make some friends here.

SPEAKER_04: 1:34:25

Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_06: 1:34:26

But I wasn't there for the right reasons, I was there to find friends to do all of my same things with. Like it took me a while to figure out that there's a program and you're supposed to work it and become better and grow in your faith. I didn't understand all that. Okay. Um, and so it took me probably three or four months before I realized, oh, this is like a thing.

SPEAKER_04: 1:34:49

Yeah. And these girls are all doing a thing.

SPEAKER_06: 1:34:51

Yes. And when I sat in small group and I absorbed, I was like, I kind of want what they have. They had some peace that I didn't have. I heard people talk about their anger, but they weren't acting like me. Yeah. If they were, they weren't sharing it. So I believe that they didn't necessarily have and then there was there were a few that did have my same rage and talked about it. And I'm like, okay, I'm starting to feel a little bit normal.

SPEAKER_02: 1:35:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 1:35:19

Right. Um, and so, anyways, I jumped in, I started a step study because I didn't really know what it was, but I was like, okay, I guess I'm just gonna do this. Wow. And it was in the middle of my step study, Justin and I got into a big fight, and I went back to my old behaviors and I slammed the wall with my fist and I hit a stud.

SPEAKER_04: 1:35:37

Ooh, so you showed the step study in a cast?

SPEAKER_06: 1:35:40

The drywall never broke. Oh and to me, that's what was gratifying about it was like that release, right? And there was none. And so my my fist like bounced off. Oh I'm left-handed. I punched with my left and it like bounced, and then immediately, like, I feel like I couldn't like really move my hand, my wrist. Um, I ended up going to the hospital because I didn't know if I broke something. And um, you want to learn humility? Try and wipe your ass with your non-dominant hand. You're right. Because I had no choice.

SPEAKER_05: 1:36:23

You can't do it. I can't do it.

SPEAKER_04: 1:36:26

No, how many people are gonna try it?

SPEAKER_00: 1:36:30

I cut the end of my thumb off.

SPEAKER_05: 1:36:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:36:32

And so I had my thing, and I'm right-handed.

SPEAKER_00: 1:36:34

I know what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_06: 1:36:37

And that was the last time I ever punched a wall.

SPEAKER_01: 1:36:40

Amen. This hand doesn't do the same movement that this hand. It doesn't, it's different.

SPEAKER_06: 1:36:46

Well, and I remember right after I I punched the wall and I ended up in the ER, um, I sent a text to the girls in my group. Right. And I said, My name is Katie, and I struggle with anger, and I punched a wall for the last time today. Wow. And I told them, you know, what happened and where I was, and um, and I haven't punched a wall since. Wow. Love that. Because I don't want to have to wipe my butt with the other hand.

SPEAKER_04: 1:37:12

God will use that if he'll use a rock or if he'll use a donkey, he'll use a stun the wall. That's real, dude. Oh, that's real.

SPEAKER_06: 1:37:24

But yeah, so I I kind of started in recovery with like anger issues, control issues, obviously codependency, because I was trying to be compliant my whole life.

SPEAKER_04: 1:37:35

Just so everybody knows that's listening. She did not say drugs and alcohol.

SPEAKER_01: 1:37:40

Hello, somebody.

SPEAKER_04: 1:37:41

Two out of three people who attend celebrate recovery do not come to celebrate recovery because of drugs and alcohol. There are so many other things that you who are listening need to be coming to celebrate recovery for anxiety, codependency, grief, there's loss, there's gambling, there's so many things. Come on, buddy. Um, so I encourage you if you are struggling in life and just feel like you're stuck in this cycle, go online, check out celebrate recovery, find a group near me, find one near you and go.

SPEAKER_01: 1:38:19

If you're here in Gilbert, Arizona, Monday nights, right? Monday nights. I think church.

SPEAKER_04: 1:38:23

Come on, man.

SPEAKER_06: 1:38:24

Best place to be on a Monday night.

SPEAKER_01: 1:38:27

So you said you quit punching the wall. I did. But did your anger? Did your anger still have Takes some time, buddy? I'm just curious. I will I will say Excuse me, because the punching of the wall is a way of releasing anger. So you may not have punched the wall, but are you are you still getting angry and still doing different things? Are you just or did you just change how you released your anger?

SPEAKER_06: 1:38:51

My rage got demoted to anger.

SPEAKER_01: 1:38:53

All right. Okay.

SPEAKER_06: 1:38:54

Because I was starting to figure out ways to navigate this extreme emotion. Wow. Yeah. Okay. And so once and and yes, I was able to start channeling it in a different way. Um, I had some community I could talk to. Great. Um great. I learned, you know, going for a walk really helps. Oh yeah. Amen. It really helps. Amen. You even it it just really helps. So walk away. So I my rage got demoted, and I learned in my step study that there is a difference between selfish anger and righteous anger. Yeah. And I was humbled in that moment because most of my rage came from selfish anger.

SPEAKER_04: 1:39:37

Like I'm not getting what I want. Yep. Wow.

SPEAKER_06: 1:39:40

Like a like a two-year-old little tantrum. Wow.

SPEAKER_00: 1:39:45

No, that's real.

SPEAKER_01: 1:39:46

Were you getting mad because you said growing up, you only had like two chores, dishes and do your homework. Right. Now you're an adult and have your own home, and now you're gotta do it. A lot of it's on you. Yeah. You know, where you get mad because I'm tired of doing the damp dishes all the time. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_06: 1:40:01

No, I think I think where most of my frustration came from was like I had some hardship in my marriage, like relational challenges that we were trying to work through. And I thought that things should be different. I thought so maybe unmet expectations. Right.

SPEAKER_01: 1:40:21

That's real.

SPEAKER_06: 1:40:22

Is in in a lot of different areas of my life.

SPEAKER_01: 1:40:25

That's a marriage killer.

SPEAKER_06: 1:40:26

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 1:40:26

Unmet expectation is a marriage killer. Right.

SPEAKER_06: 1:40:29

But it wasn't just with my husband, it was with like almost every relationship that I had. I thought that people should behave and act in a particular way, and they didn't. And so I would get frustrated and angry about that.

SPEAKER_09: 1:40:40

Nice.

SPEAKER_06: 1:40:41

Um, and then I realized, well, would God be mad at this too? And if the answer was no, then I was like, okay, I need to get myself in check. Right. That's good. But then when I think about what some of the things that happened to me, such as my sexual assault, would God be mad at this too? Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08: 1:41:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 1:41:01

And there's a very big difference in how I felt as I was processing those things. So the selfish anger versus righteous anger really helped keep me in check. Wow. Um, because even to this day, like I I can still pop a cork.

SPEAKER_04: 1:41:16

Yeah. And but do you ask yourself, is this something see, right now, you literally just gave somebody that's listening or somebody that's watching that's struggling with rage and being and popping off like that. Is this something God would be mad at? Or is this just something I'm mad at because it's like you said, a selfishness? That was so good. And just stop and ask yourself that question when you feel those emotions rising and watch how God helps you demote your rage to anger. And slow, I'm sure even now today, your anger has dwindled and you've learned and processed and things to do. Your mental health is is connected to it very much.

SPEAKER_06: 1:41:57

Right. And I think like when we're looking at anger, anger itself isn't a sin. No. Right? God gets angry.

SPEAKER_03: 1:42:05

I got angry.

SPEAKER_06: 1:42:06

And so when I'm able to realize that this is just an emotion and it's mine to steward, what am I gonna do with this anger?

SPEAKER_04: 1:42:13

So good.

SPEAKER_06: 1:42:14

Is am I gonna am I I've gone to the batting cages recently just to smash it? Come on, because I can't, I'm not gonna beat up my house. Come on. Um, I don't want to break glass and then have to clean it up.

SPEAKER_01: 1:42:27

So have you seen one of those places where you can go and smash them?

SPEAKER_06: 1:42:30

A rage room. That was called a rage room. But they're really expensive. You can go to a batting cage for five bucks.

SPEAKER_04: 1:42:37

Just come up and she's beating the kid. There's something wrong with that girl. I don't care what you think of me.

SPEAKER_06: 1:42:47

Yes. So I I figured out different outlets for it that are healthier because I do still get angry. Right. And I think that's it's it's it is. And I'm not gonna dispute that. I'm not gonna say, oh, I never get angry. Who am I?

SPEAKER_01: 1:43:02

We all get angry. Right. You know what I mean? I used to be a rager too. Dude, dad was crazy.

SPEAKER_04: 1:43:06

I was a screamer. He would throw stuff or throw it. Yeah, it was not good. Of course, it was when he was in addiction.

SPEAKER_01: 1:43:13

The last time, though, was I I threw a lighter and I hit my youngest son right here.

unknown: 1:43:18

Oh.

SPEAKER_01: 1:43:18

And I was like, What are you doing, dude? You couldn't.

SPEAKER_04: 1:43:21

What did mom say?

SPEAKER_01: 1:43:22

You're just like your father. Hello.

SPEAKER_04: 1:43:24

I'm like, whoo, no, I'm not. I learned to talk after that. Yeah. He started using his words. Yeah. Started communicating.

SPEAKER_01: 1:43:32

It was the biggest change ever made. I don't know what it was about the comparison to my father that made me like, you know what I mean? Yeah. And I mean, I still, there were still times, there's still times that I do, you know what I mean? But I learned to apologize. I learned to come back and say, hey, I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said that. You know what I mean? But in those moments, like my youngest son has my same temper, you know what I mean? And there's times where he would have this like you know what I mean? And through me apologizing to him and say, Hey, I shouldn't have talked to you like that. I'm sorry. I had no reason to do that. I'm just that was a bad day, and I just shouldn't take it out on you. Now he does it. Now he knows to come back. When he blows up and say, Hey Dad, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_06: 1:44:12

Look at him learning all the things from you. Right.

SPEAKER_01: 1:44:14

And it's like well, but that's legacy. It is. And I actually got to share it with somebody last night, and it was it was cool to be able to share that experience that I had of being a Ranger and how I changed it by having a conversation. And how having those conversations now I'm recipiating that back from my son. Where if I would have kept being a Ranger and yelling at throwing stuff, guess what? I would have got back. That's what he'd be doing. I would have got yelling, screaming, raging, throwing stuff. Yeah I mean, and so it was I don't know. I don't know that's like, man.

SPEAKER_06: 1:44:46

More is caught than taught. That's what I hear. Yeah. I can't say it because I don't have any kids, but it's real. I believe it.

SPEAKER_04: 1:44:53

They would tell me don't don't well, no, they wouldn't tell me don't use drugs, but I'm a firm believer that what you say to yourself.

SPEAKER_01: 1:45:01

You're gonna get hired, drunk, do it every time. It's what you do, but they're seeing everything you do. Yep. So you could tell them not to do it, whatever, but if they're seeing you do it, they're gonna mimic what you're doing. Yep. There's little you's monkey see, monkey do. Yeah, absolutely. The whole hear no evil, see no evil. Yeah, they don't hear no evil, but they see it all. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04: 1:45:22

Yeah, yeah. So we are, you are like what, 26, 28? You're at, you've left, you've left the I'm in my mid-20s.

SPEAKER_06: 1:45:33

Mid-20s, okay.

SPEAKER_04: 1:45:34

And you finished your step study, you did finish it. I did. Your first one. Yes. Wow, great job. Great job.

SPEAKER_01: 1:45:41

You didn't quit when you got step four. Oh, this is getting real. No. My first step study got step four, but the entire group did not. Everybody quit. I literally got a call from the leader and was like, don't bother coming, nobody's here. Nobody's here. I was like, It's a tough step. It is, man. It is.

SPEAKER_06: 1:45:57

Yep.

SPEAKER_01: 1:45:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 1:45:58

Yeah. Step four I actually didn't find as intimidating as everybody makes it out to be. And I self-disclosure, I actually hate that people hype up step four. I had the hardest time with the amend step.

SPEAKER_04: 1:46:11

Really? Boom. So did I.

SPEAKER_06: 1:46:13

I still uh I it took me probably three or four meetings with my sponsor before like trying to write my amends. I'd show up, and the first time she was like, I think you need to try again. I had too much, and then I went the next time. I think you need to try again. And she did that three or four times before she finally said, Now you're getting it. And I was like, Okay, this is crap. Like, I don't, I just want to move on. And she wouldn't let it slide. She taught me how to do a proper amen and to own my part and only my part.

SPEAKER_04: 1:46:53

That's a great sponsor.

SPEAKER_06: 1:46:55

That's good. I had the best sponsor.

SPEAKER_04: 1:46:57

Are you sponsoring? Do you sponsor anymore? I do, I do. Amen.

unknown: 1:47:01

Amen.

SPEAKER_06: 1:47:02

And and I do the same thing with them on step nine. Great. Because I I could tell them what my experience was. Um, but I don't want them to miss out on the opportunity of learning how to do it and to see because a lot of the women that I sponsor uh have similar issues to me, right? Great. And so they're gonna over-explain and try and take things that aren't theirs. And I'm like, they need to go through what I went through to learn that we aren't owning other people's things.

SPEAKER_04: 1:47:31

Oh, that's so good.

SPEAKER_01: 1:47:32

I think for me, I was already making amends before I started Celebrate Recovery. Because I remember getting out of prison and telling my dad, you ruined me, dude. You really messed up, but I want you to know that I forgive you. But I also need you to know that the things you did just messed me up. You know what I mean? So I was already had that mindset of knowing that was there. So amends for me was pretty easy. I'm good at apologizing. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_06: 1:47:54

Well, some of us aren't.

SPEAKER_01: 1:47:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 1:47:56

Some of us need a little extra work.

SPEAKER_01: 1:47:58

I'm a little harder at digging things up. I don't like to play in the dirt.

SPEAKER_04: 1:48:02

No, he likes to like move on and it never happened, and we're just go this way. Yeah, it's like, no, we gotta work through all that stuff, bud. We gotta talk about some stuff.

SPEAKER_06: 1:48:10

Yep. Probably one of the most freeing things at step four for me doing my inventory was when my sponsor helped me realize that I had no part in those assaults that happened to me. Amen. Um, I for a long time nobody knew that that had happened to me. And so when I was able to one, share it, yeah, um and then be told this is not your fault. You did nothing, you didn't deserve this. All of the truths that come, right? Um, as a victim of something like that, it destroys your self-worth. So then to be told the complete opposite, it allows a a restoration to take place.

SPEAKER_01: 1:48:49

A value that feels enlightening kind of like to get that out.

SPEAKER_06: 1:48:55

Yes, because then I didn't feel so isolated carrying this, like what I felt like was a big label across my forehead.

SPEAKER_01: 1:49:02

Really? Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06: 1:49:03

Now my sponsor did call it what it was. So when I told her, because I didn't use the any terms with her, I just told her what happened to me. And I remember her saying um you were sexually assaulted. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:49:18

And and I was like, that was the first because you didn't even say that. No. You you went through the of what happened. And so she labeled that you're not.

SPEAKER_06: 1:49:27

And then I felt at first I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm one of those people.

SPEAKER_02: 1:49:32

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_06: 1:49:33

And when she must have seen it on my face because then that's when she said, None of this was your fault. Um, and she she told me, she said, You have a choice in how you're going to respond to what has happened to you. And you can choose to let it define you and carry this label the rest of your life. Or you can choose to share what happened to you and find the freedom that Christ is going to redeem.

SPEAKER_01: 1:49:59

Wow. A lot of the ladies we've had on have had similar experiences. They talked about how there was a sense of self-blaming, self-guilt of what's wrong with me.

SPEAKER_04: 1:50:10

You know what I mean? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:50:11

Like they felt guilty for what happened to them. Like they had some kind of part in that. You know what I mean? Is that what you're talking about?

SPEAKER_06: 1:50:16

Like, yeah, because even um if something like that were to happen present day, I think that I would still have those same thoughts of why why did this happen to me? Why are people picking me? What's wrong with me? Do I have a target on myself? What what what is it about me that makes these people take advantage of me? Um so I think all those things would still come back into my head, but knowing that that none of that is true and it has absolutely nothing to do with me. No, that's a I I would probably toggle between knowing what's true but having the doubt that's there. And I've been in recovery 11 years.

SPEAKER_01: 1:51:07

We had one lady who talked about how she went to her mom and brought it up. And her mom blamed her. How it turned into this whole thing that ruined her marriage with the guy that you know assaulted her, and how she felt a sense of I should have never said nothing. I should have you know what I mean. And I'm like, God, that's gotta be a horrible feeling to know that you're supposed to protect me, and I should be able to come and tell you, and now you're turning it in and like look what you're doing to our family because you brought you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_04: 1:51:40

That's a whole different trauma in families is real, man. Yeah, I want to say a bad word or not, but it's like this mind messes with people.

SPEAKER_01: 1:51:49

You know what I mean? That I'm like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04: 1:51:52

Well, a lot of people have not worked recovery. A lot of this you're you're literally talking about stuff right now that earlier when we prayed, we're gonna talk about some stuff that we we at one point in our life, I'm not telling nobody about this. Right, I'm taking this to the grave with me, right? And thinking that that's the way I was supposed to do it. But until you get into recovery, until you find people that care and are have worked some recovery and got some healing, you only know what you know. Thank God that you had these women in your life that were able to pull you. Sometimes people need to be pulled or kicked along into some healing and recovery so you can really work because you're at a place, sis, where you can speak right into women's younger, older. Um God, like you said, you have no idea in the next 10, 5, 10, 15 years what the Lord's gonna do, even in the season you're in now. Right. Yeah, yep.

SPEAKER_01: 1:52:53

I had a counseling session recently with uh uh some prayer intercessors that blessing. I was talking to them and they were like, you need to come in and talk to us, you know what I mean? And I opened up about some of my childhood sexual things, you know what I mean? And this is the first time someone ever used this terminology towards me, and it kind of made me feel a little weird, but they were like, You were groomed.

SPEAKER_06: 1:53:14

And I was like I hate that term.

SPEAKER_01: 1:53:16

And I was like, Wow, I never I never looked at it in that form to me. It was just that's how my family was, you know what I mean? But they used that term and I was like, that feels dirty. I just felt I don't know, because I never saw myself as being groomed to be sexual, but I kind of was groomed to be sexual, you know what I mean. I don't like that word, but I'm not gonna use that word, but I kind of was taught that that was the way that a man was, you know what I mean? But to have that label thrown at me was in a brief moment, it was like uh you know, it just felt weird this word. Because when I think of grooming, I think of someone unfortunately a man grooming a girl, you know what I mean? That's the way I see it. But I was a man, so for someone to say that a man was being groomed to me, it was just felt weird, you know what I mean? But yeah, I don't know what I felt like a share of that. You know what I mean? That was just weird to have that label thrown at me. Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 1:54:11

I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_01: 1:54:12

Yeah, it was weird.

SPEAKER_04: 1:54:14

He got some healing from the meeting, and the people he was he was able to talk to with are like some of the best people. I love the time I had with them. It was really walked out of there different. Yeah, you did.

SPEAKER_01: 1:54:24

But that was the first time that I heard that term used towards, and this was probably the first time I ever really opened up about some of the things that I did, you know, and to have that label thrown at me was just I don't know. I also we did some prayer, we did some, you know, calling some things out, things like that. So it was really good. But uh to have that term was just I don't know, it just felt weird. It's it was, you know what I mean? So I don't know. I felt I needed to share that for some reason.

SPEAKER_06: 1:54:51

Thank you for sharing.

SPEAKER_01: 1:54:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:54:52

So you you are when you move out of the house, why'd you move over to a new place? Just wanted a bigger house?

SPEAKER_06: 1:55:02

No, I actually say our microwave broke, so we moved.

SPEAKER_04: 1:55:06

It's not a good reason to move. Just buy another microwave.

SPEAKER_06: 1:55:11

No, it's actually, I mean, it's a god story, but um, our microwave did break. I put a burrito in it and microwaved it for like seven minutes, and it still wasn't warm. And I'm like, I think there's something wrong with the microwave. And we had repaired or replaced every appliance except the microwave in that house. So the fact that it died, um, but anyways, there was a um a lot that was for sale near my childhood home that had that was on horse property. And so we were looking to go take that opportunity, right? Because the price was good, the location was good, it was close to home, like my home, right? Um and when we started looking, it wasn't quite gonna work out. Um, but we ended up saying, well, before we pull the trigger on anything, let's go look at some other places just to make sure that this is really what we want. And we walked into the um house that we have now and just we just God just said this is your home. And so we just knew that that's what we needed to do. So what prompted us isn't even where we ended up. Wow.

SPEAKER_04: 1:56:26

Um, so I love how God redirects. Yes.

SPEAKER_06: 1:56:30

Well, and he really redirected because I I had to live in a barn. So when we What do you mean? I mean I lived in a barn, dude. Straight up.

SPEAKER_00: 1:56:41

So when we in between moves?

SPEAKER_06: 1:56:43

Yes. Oh really? Oh wow. So when we so we bought our house. I did. I don't know how else to say that.

SPEAKER_01: 1:56:51

Like K in the whole nine yards? It was a barn at the barn door.

SPEAKER_06: 1:56:55

It had animals. Oh my god. Um, we there was kind of cool. There was you know, everybody says that, but nobody wanted to trade new places.

SPEAKER_04: 1:57:04

No, you can keep the crap.

SPEAKER_06: 1:57:06

We had like an apartment above, like a loft area, but it was awful. Like it was a blessing to be there. It was my uncle's place, and he gave us a place to stay, but we had to sell our one house to free up the cash to purchase the other one. And I remember telling the sales lady, like, well, where am I supposed to live? Like, if you want me to sell my house before you'll build my new house. And she said, Well, you'll find something. And I was like, um, what there smells?

SPEAKER_01: 1:57:36

No, not in the barn. Okay.

SPEAKER_06: 1:57:39

Yeah. But the sales lady was like, I thought it was her responsibility to find me a place to live.

SPEAKER_01: 1:57:45

You know the dairy right there? That's real, dude. You know the cow place right there by where you grew up on Chandler Heights and is Valvista? Channel Heights and Valvista.

SPEAKER_06: 1:57:54

Yeah, is it even still there? It's still there.

SPEAKER_01: 1:57:56

Yeah, I drive by it every day.

SPEAKER_03: 1:57:58

Oh. Yeah. I love the smell.

SPEAKER_06: 1:58:00

I do too. I say that cow manure smells like home.

SPEAKER_01: 1:58:02

It's like home. I don't know. I drive by there every day, going to work and coming home.

SPEAKER_05: 1:58:07

You probably drive right by my old house. And I'm just like, We were at Valvista and Aquatillo.

SPEAKER_01: 1:58:11

I don't know. I grew up in Mesa where there was cows, farms everywhere.

SPEAKER_05: 1:58:14

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01: 1:58:14

You know what I mean? So that's just reminds me of my childhood.

SPEAKER_05: 1:58:17

Yeah, it smells like home. So when I drive by, I'm just like, You should go out there and rub your hands in it. I would never do that.

SPEAKER_01: 1:58:24

I would never do that. But the smell, I I I generally enjoy the smell. I really do. Yep. It smells just comforting. Go smell you some cow poop, dude.

SPEAKER_05: 1:58:36

Come on. It's just city boy.

SPEAKER_01: 1:58:39

It's just hay. It is that's what it is. Corn. Now that you say that, it does have a hay kind of smell to it. Because that's what they eat. I know. That's crazy. They never put that together. I always thought it was just cow poop, but now that you say that, I'm like, that does have a hell. Ah, that's so cool. That's refreshing.

SPEAKER_08: 1:58:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_04: 1:58:58

He goes to the salad and go and gets their cold brew because it tastes like grass.

SPEAKER_01: 1:59:03

It does, but I realized it was hazelnut, it's not actually grass.

SPEAKER_05: 1:59:06

How do you get grass from hazelnuts?

SPEAKER_01: 1:59:09

It had a very earthy taste. That's the way I would describe it, it was like earthy. You know what I mean? Okay. And hazelnut has an earthy taste because you know they grow underground. I think, oh, that's peanuts. Peanuts grow underground. Hazelnut peanuts grow underground.

SPEAKER_05: 1:59:21

We're in a rabbit hole. Did you know that peanuts grow underground? Come back. Come back. Let me let me reel this back in.

SPEAKER_01: 1:59:28

The peanuts that you get at the baseball game? They grow underground. Yes, dad. I did not know that until recently. Oh. I don't really eat those peanuts. I thought they grew like on trees. They grow underground. Yeah, they grow them up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 1:59:39

Interesting. Okay.

SPEAKER_04: 1:59:40

Okay, so you are you didn't get the lot. God redirected you to the other home that you're in now that you walked into, and he literally told you, he told you both this is your home. Yes. I love how he does that with a crystal clear.

SPEAKER_06: 1:59:55

Crystal clear. Um, and so we we bought it and we ended. Up selling our house.

SPEAKER_04: 2:00:01

When was this? What are we talking about? So I would have been 27. Okay. Right before the shutdown, all the good stuff. Yeah. All right.

SPEAKER_06: 2:00:10

Yep. So we we sold our house in February of 2017 and lived in the barn from February to August. Oh.

SPEAKER_04: 2:00:20

So for six months. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_06: 2:00:23

And in August we moved.

SPEAKER_04: 2:00:25

Was there AC in the barn? Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 2:00:27

Okay. Thank God. Yep. Um, and so we moved into our house in August, and um, moving in the heat sucks. Yeah. I suck at moving. It was a d it was just not a good.

SPEAKER_04: 2:00:40

You're never moving again.

SPEAKER_06: 2:00:42

Not really.

SPEAKER_04: 2:00:42

No, he's gonna send you on vacation and then all the movers. You got money. I'm gonna call somebody. That's the way to do it, Justin.

SPEAKER_05: 2:00:52

Every man should take notes on that.

SPEAKER_04: 2:00:55

Get out of here. It really lowered the stress level, guys. We don't have a hurry on that.

SPEAKER_06: 2:01:04

Yeah, so we moved in 2017 and we just knew this is gonna be our home. Um, and when we moved, we decided to commit our home to the Lord.

SPEAKER_02: 2:01:15

Come on.

SPEAKER_06: 2:01:16

And so we because when we lived in Queen Creek, um, I loved our home, I loved our neighborhood, and we wanted to host and do things all the time. Um, my husband has the biggest gift of hospitality. Oh nice, and so that's how he loves people is through food, through cooking, through welcoming them into our home.

SPEAKER_04: 2:01:34

Um and still waiting for the gambling night, man. Yeah. Poker night. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_06: 2:01:41

And so when um when we decided that we were just gonna commit our home to the Lord, we said, Whatever you want to do here, we will do.

SPEAKER_02: 2:01:49

Come on. So good.

SPEAKER_06: 2:01:50

And so as a result of that, um, we actually had a gentleman that we met through Celebrate Recovery. Um, unfortunately, he had to go to prison.

SPEAKER_10: 2:02:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 2:02:03

And before he went to prison, he asked Justin, he said, Can I can I get baptized in your pool? Wow. Oh. And we said, Absolutely, you can. Yeah. And so he got baptized. Um, the church wasn't doing baptisms during COVID. We had Justin baptized him? No, somebody else did.

SPEAKER_04: 2:02:23

I say it's so cool. Yeah. Okay. Um, but just to have somebody ask, what an honor. Yes.

SPEAKER_06: 2:02:30

And then we we had somebody else ask to do that because in COVID they weren't doing them.

SPEAKER_01: 2:02:35

I was baptized in a pool.

SPEAKER_06: 2:02:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 2:02:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 2:02:37

And so we were like, whatever the Lord wants us to do. And so we've just chosen to pretty much open our home. Like I mentioned, you know, for anyone and everyone who that we just want people to feel loved and feel the presence of God in our home.

SPEAKER_01: 2:02:57

That is a gift because not everybody wants to do that. Yeah, that's right. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 2:03:00

That's special.

SPEAKER_06: 2:03:01

And not everybody's good at it. No. You know, like I I don't I don't say that to my husband has this gift, and when he gets to utilize that gift, it is the purest form of love that he has for other people. Like he was made to serve people through hospitality.

SPEAKER_01: 2:03:23

I love the idea of it. I do. But after like 30 minutes, I'm like, get out of my house. Y'all can leave now.

SPEAKER_05: 2:03:30

Yeah, I mean, it's a lot of work, and people are messy.

SPEAKER_01: 2:03:33

And I love the idea of it. When I first get there, I'm excited. I'm like, yeah, we got people, and then it's like 30 minutes. I'm like, I just want my home back. So it's it takes someone's.

SPEAKER_05: 2:03:42

Your battery dies. I'm I'm charging, you need to go now.

SPEAKER_04: 2:03:48

That's what Loki's for. That's funny. That's really awesome, man. Yeah. So special. Yep. Equal equally yoked when you're sharing. I just hear that you guys are put together and knit together by God, and He's doing something beautiful with you guys.

SPEAKER_01: 2:04:07

Would you say you're there now? Because you said at the beginning you guys weren't. Would you say you're there now?

SPEAKER_06: 2:04:12

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 2:04:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 2:04:13

Yeah. We both went through the program of recovery. We've chosen that recovery was our ministry of choice. That's where I shouldn't say we chose because it's not where I would have chosen to be, but it's definitely where God called us to be. So once we went through, um we think about how to say this. We there was a leadership change at the CR that we were part of. And so when that happened, I remember telling my sponsor, like, hey, I'm done with my program. I think I can help and serve now. And so she's like, Well, I'm not really serving there anymore. And so she connected me with somebody who was. And I didn't know who it was. And the lady was like, Cause all I wanted to do was maybe be an open share leader. And the lady was like, Well, are you gonna share your testimony? I was like, Oh no. And she was like, Well, how are you gonna lead a small group and share your experience, strength, and hope if nobody's heard your whole story? Wow. And I was like, Oh, that's good. Um, okay.

SPEAKER_04: 2:05:26

That's real good.

SPEAKER_06: 2:05:27

And so I had to really consider that. And she was right. And so I opted to share my testimony and she trained me, and that's kind of like I kind of just like stumbled into this leadership position, right? And so we served um with these people for a long time.

SPEAKER_01: 2:05:46

Is that where we met you? Is that what you're talking about?

SPEAKER_06: 2:05:48

No. No, and so um then our church and our CR were not the same. Yeah, a lot of a lot of people CR where I was invited to go from that small group that I was in in Queen Creek, but then that church wasn't really satisfying our need anymore, so we went to a different church.

SPEAKER_01: 2:06:09

So the church you were at and the CR you were at were different locations.

SPEAKER_06: 2:06:12

Okay, and we operated like that for a long time because the CR at our home church fell on a night that didn't work for our schedules, and so we just stayed where we were, we had community.

SPEAKER_01: 2:06:24

I think people do that so they don't have to go to a CR with people they go to church with.

SPEAKER_06: 2:06:28

I think that is a very real thing, but that wasn't our score agents. It's very real, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 2:06:32

It's very real.

SPEAKER_06: 2:06:32

Yeah, and so we were happy where we were, and then after several years of doing that, I was like, I I want to serve where I attend.

SPEAKER_04: 2:06:44

So good.

SPEAKER_06: 2:06:45

And so I talked with my husband about it and he agreed. So then we tried to attend the church that we were already plugged in at at CR. Um, and I just was my we weren't feeling fed.

SPEAKER_02: 2:06:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 2:06:58

Um, so we gave it a fair try. And I just remember praying for three years. Where are we supposed to be? Wow. Like, am I supposed to be at church where I go to CR? Or am I supposed to be at CR where I go to church? Wow. Where are we supposed to be? Because none of it felt at peace. And then one day we went to a different church campus, and they announced that they were gonna be launching a CR and needed help.

SPEAKER_04: 2:07:35

Oh yeah. Isn't that our God?

SPEAKER_06: 2:07:39

And I was like, oh my baby, this is our chance. Yeah, get in at the beginning. I remember telling Justin, I'm so scared to go to the info meeting because what if people from our actual CR see us here? Oh, and then, you know, are are we actually leaving? We don't even know, we're just trying to get information. So I had a lot of dissonance about that, but um good word, n none of that, none of that happened, right? 90% of the crap we worry about never happened.

SPEAKER_04: 2:08:11

That's why they call it stinking thinking. Yeah, fantasies. Get out of your head, man.

SPEAKER_06: 2:08:15

So after that info meeting, we ended up um because again, this was a campus that we just visited. It wasn't even our home campus. And so it was all just God's intervention. And so when we finally landed there, um, and we we decided to move forward with helping their CR get started. We told our other leaders that we were gonna leave, and it was really sad. Um, but they were so happy for us. And then when we moved on, I just remember Justin and I talking, and I was like, you know, we're gonna be in this same situation if we go to church at one campus and do CR at another campus. Yeah, yeah. I was like, it's all the same church, but different location. That's not fueling the need of the community in both, right? It's really good. So we that's wisdom. We committed to switching campuses where we had no friends.

SPEAKER_04: 2:09:11

Wow.

SPEAKER_06: 2:09:11

We didn't know any of the pastors, we just walked in and like knew nobody.

SPEAKER_04: 2:09:17

Wow, but you are helping start a CR.

SPEAKER_06: 2:09:21

We yes, we did. We were blessed to be able to kind of start the CR that was there. Um, and it was an incredible experience to be able to do that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09: 2:09:32

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06: 2:09:34

Absolutely. Yep. Because to to go from nothing to something, yeah, um, and to, you know, kind of work with a team and navigate the challenges and well, you you went from something to nothing back to something. True.

SPEAKER_04: 2:09:51

You know what I mean? But going from so usually the hardest thing is going from something that's going to nothing. Yeah. And we now we have to make it go. And then, but then to get to watch it grow and watch God bring the people, it's like, this is humbling. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 2:10:09

And we had an incredible team. Like our leadership team was incredible. The people that showed up, they wanted to serve.

SPEAKER_10: 2:10:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 2:10:18

Um, they were absorbed in, um, they saw the benefit of the Forever family. Um, they wanted to be part of it. And um, again, coming back to you know, our home, we chose to invite these people in our CR into our home to do life together. Wow. So we we held our leadership meetings there, we would do fellowship events there, we would do game nights there. Like we just chose to really invest in our team, um, and the health of the ministry was there.

SPEAKER_01: 2:10:54

Okay, I gotta ask you a question. Jesus. So being a CR leader myself and seeing the struggles sometimes, would you say investing in your team is crucial? The time, the camaraderie, other things like that to to make it thrive?

SPEAKER_06: 2:11:17

I would. Yeah. And Eddie, I could tell you, I could probably do a whole separate podcast on leadership in general. Um but yes, I think so. Because if we don't know how each other operates when we're having fun together, how am I ever gonna know how you operate when it's business? Really? So, um, and most of the activities that we would do like team building, I chose to do that for the sake of learning the different styles of the people that we had.

SPEAKER_01: 2:11:51

Nice.

SPEAKER_06: 2:11:52

And I like you, I just would sit back and watch. Like, how do you operate? And so when when we would have a when we would have a crisis, I knew already who was gonna do what when, because I knew how they operated.

SPEAKER_01: 2:12:07

Man, that's good. It's really good. Thank you for that. Yeah, yeah. Damn it, Jim. I said, damn it, Jim. Got a lot of work to do.

SPEAKER_04: 2:12:18

God's got us, buddy. Just kidding.

SPEAKER_06: 2:12:20

Well, there's a reason that Saddleback says this is forever family, right? It's not because we're showing up for our hour meeting and going home, it's because we're doing life together. And CR is different from I feel like a lot of other ministries. Like, we're talking about really, really hard stuff, and that's really heavy, and it's a lot, and it's spiritually draining. And so I like to have a good time. So if I can invite my forever family to do that with me, it's gonna be a better experience. Like, I don't want my experience with recovery to be all doom and gloom.

SPEAKER_01: 2:12:56

I think for me, I'm finding the struggle to be the fact that CR is such a growing ministry that almost you could go two miles in any direction from our church and you'll find a CR on any given night. And so people can go anywhere where it seems like uh you know, even five years ago it was maybe a handful of churches that had CR, so there was only a handful of places you could go where now you go look on the app. I mean people are popping in to meetings all the time. The whole valley lights up with locations, so it's hard to eighty-three. You get these people who are just popping in and out and never really want to commit or be a part of the you know, forever family, like part of it, you know what I mean? They just want to pop in and get their meeting and whatever, you know what I mean? And that's for me, that's I get that, but it's also frustrating because we're like, you know, come on, come on, bro. There's more, yeah. We can talk offline about that. But I I mean, because we've seen our numbers go up and then down and up. Don't look at it. And it's hard. I mean, yeah, don't look at them, but it's hard. Yeah, I gotta see them because as you see them start to grow, you're like, ah, we're going. And then boom, you're like, where'd everybody go? And for me, I'm like, what what do we do? Yeah, don't do that. You know what I mean? Yeah, and no not to do that, but that's a personal I am. I know, but I'm like, what do we what do we do wrong that people don't want to stay? You know what I mean? It's that's pretty challenging. But I love it. I mean, I tell people all the time that I'm not I'm not there on Mondays because I have to be. I'm there because I know for those two hours I'm gonna behave. You're gonna stay sober. Yeah, I'm gonna behave myself. You know what I mean? And if that's the only two hours I get of sobriety in the whole week, then praise God. I got those. Sometimes that's all it takes for people. Yeah, and I try to get people to understand that I'm not here because I have to be. I know that from 6 30 to 8 30 or 9 o'clock that I'm gonna behave myself. You get to do this.

SPEAKER_06: 2:14:52

Yeah, you get to show up for the one. So maybe if they are just walking in for the first time, they go to 17 other meetings. Yeah, it's great. I get to be here to minister to you, however, God would have that.

SPEAKER_04: 2:15:06

Amen. I'm super excited for after you finish the season you're in now and you're come over. So we we had a lot of change in CR, there's a lot of change sometimes. And for people who are the M's, when you experience that change, you you do what you said. What did I do wrong? Yeah, what should I have done? What didn't I do? What could I have done? It's this whole thing.

SPEAKER_01: 2:15:34

We're only people, it's natural to think that. Totally.

SPEAKER_04: 2:15:37

I mean until God shows you, hey, bud, this is my ministry, it's not yours. It's like, oh, thank, thank you. And then you see this one come and this one come and hey, I did that year. I'm like, wow. Yeah. So seeing and experiencing and watching how God handles the transition, it's like, wow, we're we're better now than we've ever been. And it just it's just keep getting better. And more people are coming that are it's it's like the leaders are coming that don't even want the leadership. Yeah, that's really what's happening. There's there's real champions for Jesus in recovery that are coming to LifeLink and are are coming to be a part of this thing that are like, dude, I'm good on the leadership. I just want to be a part of this. I'm like, wow, that's God. Yeah. Because a lot of people come and I want to be a leader.

SPEAKER_01: 2:16:36

I should just come and say, You said to them earlier that that was a ministry that you would not have chosen, but God, that's the same thing for me. It's I never wanted to be a leader of Celibary Recovery. I never dreamed of it, never didn't even still today. I'm like, I really don't want to do this. You know what I mean? But I also know that God called us to it. I'm there because God made it very clear that I need you here. Yeah, like me getting up on stage, terrifying. Like two weeks ago, I was hosting and had a panic attack on stage. Started sweating. Never had a panic attack in my life. Ever.

SPEAKER_05: 2:17:07

Did you wear deodorant that day?

SPEAKER_01: 2:17:09

I couldn't tell you if I did or not. But I get up there and I'm hosting doing the announcements. I've been turkey, and this happened. The testimony lady brings like a whole bunch of people that I don't know. And I'm like, my voice cracks, and I look at all these spaces, and in my moment I start sweating, and I'm like, and I see the the uh one lady that's on our team and she's mouthing to me, are you okay? And I'm like, not really.

SPEAKER_08: 2:17:34

Like, what? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 2:17:36

And then the following week I had to do a teaching and I kill it, no problem whatsoever. You know what I mean? So I don't want to be there, but I think that's why God has me there, because that's the last damn place I want to be.

SPEAKER_06: 2:17:46

Yeah, because you're not gonna grow if you were comfortable. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_01: 2:17:49

And here's the funny part, right? Is I look back on my life as a kid, and when we used to have to do oral reports, I was a kid that always hold the paper in front of his face and I want to look at the people, you know, and the teacher's like, pull the paper down, we want to see your face, and then you know what I mean. So the devil knew at a young age to get me fearful of speaking in front of people because he knew these days. This is what you're gonna be doing. You know what I mean? And it's been prophesied over me that I'm gonna be speaking in front of thousands of men one day, and this is my training ground to break that fear of speaking in front of people so when that time comes, like you were talking about testimonies. I'm there.

SPEAKER_04: 2:18:23

That's his next step.

SPEAKER_01: 2:18:24

I'm literally one of them. Like I literally hear God screaming at me. They're like, let's go, dude.

SPEAKER_06: 2:18:29

You haven't shared yours?

SPEAKER_01: 2:18:30

Come on, man. I just told you I don't like speaking in front of people.

SPEAKER_06: 2:18:33

But you're teaching.

SPEAKER_01: 2:18:35

But it's usually on teaching nights, it's usually just our people.

SPEAKER_06: 2:18:38

Yeah, it's not just your people, it's who God wants to be there. Amen. And on a teaching night, so when you share your testimony, you can weave that into a teaching.

SPEAKER_01: 2:18:48

Oh, he does. He does. See, for me, I think like Sun Valley Gilbert. If I was going to Sun Valley Gilbert, 200 people, I'm gonna get up there and I'm gonna freeze, I'm gonna panic. I'm gonna do all these different things that go through my mind. Like, I'm gonna, I would literally shit myself. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_06: 2:19:00

This is this is what I you wouldn't because you can't see them. The lights are too bright.

SPEAKER_01: 2:19:04

I know, but you wouldn't. Trust me. There's a fear there that I have that's genuine and real, that I don't know if I could do that. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04: 2:19:11

Yes, you can. You could. And this this is what I've noticed in CR.

SPEAKER_01: 2:19:16

Get that. But it's also a genuine fear that I have that I'm like I would get up there and be like, and I would make an ass out of myself.

SPEAKER_06: 2:19:24

The only way to overcome fear is to do it. I know all that stuff.

SPEAKER_01: 2:19:28

I'm 53 years old. I know what the hell I'm talking about. You know what I mean? But I also know that do it.

SPEAKER_04: 2:19:37

So what I've noticed in doing what I'm doing as the M of it is you get people who love to teach and feel that that's their gifting and that's their call. And anytime you need me to teach a lesson, I'll come in and teach. Then there's this group of people that love the testimonies. I'll come in and do testimony. But if I ask the people who do testimony, hey, are you interested in teaching a lesson? Oh no, oh no. Or the teachers, hey, are you ready to share your test? Oh no, oh no. It's weird, but it's real. And I've noticed it with they're both needed though. Totally. Yeah, and it's even better when the teachers are sharing their testimony, it just does something for the ministry.

SPEAKER_06: 2:20:28

I think in that regard, and this is just me and my opinion, right? Um, that when I serve in celebrate recovery or anywhere for that matter, if I'm saying yes to service, I'm saying yes to whatever God would give me. All of it. Um, and that's why I'm here because this seems very this is very out of my comfort zone. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_04: 2:20:51

Are you talking about this?

SPEAKER_06: 2:20:52

Yeah, this podcast. Oh, wow. I I appreciate the opportunity, um, but I've really protected my anonymity and confidentiality at CR. So to and somebody's asked before, can you can we record this? And I said, No. Wow. You can't.

SPEAKER_04: 2:21:07

Wow.

SPEAKER_06: 2:21:07

Um, I'm I'm just not comfortable with that.

SPEAKER_04: 2:21:09

That's real, man.

SPEAKER_06: 2:21:11

And so um to say yes to God is to say yes to whatever He would have for you, whether that's teaching, testimony, coffee, cleaning, greeting, you know, administrative things, which I completely suck at, right? Or running a tech booth or whatever it is, if you say yes to serve, if we have a servant heart, we're gonna do wherever the hole is.

SPEAKER_04: 2:21:35

That's good.

SPEAKER_06: 2:21:36

Damn you, sis.

SPEAKER_01: 2:21:38

Real good. Convicting the crap out of the case. That was God. God I needed that. Yeah. I needed that. When I said yes to this, I said yes to the whole damn thing.

SPEAKER_06: 2:21:47

Yep, it's a posture. It's a how are we showing up, right?

SPEAKER_04: 2:21:50

I'll do this, but not that. Yeah. Yeah. I'll do it all, God. Whatever you need.

SPEAKER_01: 2:21:56

It's good. Thanks, by the way. Yeah. For saying yes to coming on here. Yeah, that made you so much.

SPEAKER_05: 2:22:02

I'd like to say my pleasure, but it wasn't.

SPEAKER_04: 2:22:05

It will be, though. It will be. When you start hearing the people come back on the backside, oh my God, I listened to your testimony. Oh my God. And then you start getting the connections and the people, it's really cool.

SPEAKER_06: 2:22:18

I believe you.

SPEAKER_04: 2:22:19

We've had people come up and share. It's like, you're not gonna believe who reached out to me, and they start sharing. I'm like, wow, doesn't God really use it all for his good? That's what it's for, man.

SPEAKER_01: 2:22:29

We literally had a lady from our church come and share her story. And a lady from our church listened and had a similar experience, but never talked to anybody about it. Nope. But listening to her story, she felt comfortable enough to go and approach this lady. It's like, hey, I went through that too. Can we talk? Literally made this connection. Yeah, and I pray that she found that healing that that same lady had through that connection, man. Right. And so, but yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 2:22:54

Community, even people that aren't don't go to our church, go to other churches, listen to it, but are listening to like pastors that have done on our podcast, and they connect through social media and stuff, and are like, dude, I feel called to that same thing. Yeah, so it's really God just using this as a platform for his people to come on and share what he's done in their life and the healing and stuff because everybody's recovery and healing looks different. It's not like we say yes to Jesus and all of a sudden we're perfect, right? We're in process, man. Thank God. Yeah, amen. Amen. Um, but it's just beautiful to be a part of and be able to host our friends. I don't think our family.

SPEAKER_01: 2:23:33

I don't think I can handle being perfect, bud. Jesus. There's only one. His name was Jesus.

SPEAKER_05: 2:23:37

I don't think I can handle it.

SPEAKER_04: 2:23:42

Just share those bat and slips with me, bud.

SPEAKER_00: 2:23:46

We're gonna be rich. No, we're not. That's not the way to get rich.

SPEAKER_04: 2:23:50

I love you, dude.

SPEAKER_00: 2:23:52

So, anyways, you you're open, you start help start CR.

SPEAKER_06: 2:23:56

Yeah, and um it it was an incredible experience, and I I knew um, because I had been serving in leadership at a CR prior to that, I knew I cannot sustain this long term, right? So I knew it would be for a season. I just didn't know what that season would be or how long.

SPEAKER_01: 2:24:14

At least she went in with that mindset and naughtyism forever.

SPEAKER_06: 2:24:17

Right. Yeah, yeah. Um, and so as time went on, we just took it one day at a time, one meeting at a time, right? And um earlier this year, my mom, well, uh a year ago, so a year ago in November, she got diagnosed with stage four lung cancer. And I knew at that time, okay, my season really is gonna come to an end at some point in the very near future. I didn't know what that meant. I didn't know if I would have to, you know, help her with anything. Um, I just knew I I can't continue to do this. So um life's changing.

SPEAKER_03: 2:24:58

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_06: 2:24:59

Yeah, and so I um knew I need to kind of make sure that the rest of the team, like Justin and I needed them to, you know, kind of step up and understand our situation and we started delegating more responsibilities um to help them for when I couldn't we couldn't be there.

SPEAKER_01: 2:25:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 2:25:20

And so um That's really good.

SPEAKER_01: 2:25:23

They they understood that season was coming, that time was coming, right?

SPEAKER_06: 2:25:26

I think they understood it. I don't think they really wanted to comprehend it, right? Because it's scary when you're under when you're like serving with somebody for a long time and you're learning from them, and then all of a sudden they're gonna step away at some point, that's a really scary position to be in because you feel like there's so many things you still have to learn. Um but you know, God will sustain whoever's ordained to be there. I believe that.

SPEAKER_04: 2:25:54

That's really good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 2:25:56

And so when I um my mom ended up going downhill rather quickly, so she got diagnosed in November, started treatment, treatment didn't work, and then um it metastasized and she had to have a a medical procedure that didn't go well, and so anyway, she she passed away.

SPEAKER_01: 2:26:17

How did how did they how did they find that?

SPEAKER_06: 2:26:20

That she like wasn't feeling good and went in and had some x-rays or yeah, we thought that she had like valley fever or pneumonia and um she didn't.

SPEAKER_02: 2:26:29

Really?

SPEAKER_06: 2:26:30

Yeah, they did all these tests and once all of those started coming back negative, I started to just feel like okay, I I think this is more serious than really what we're talking and hoping for.

SPEAKER_01: 2:26:42

So up until this point, there was like no signs that just mom was just normal.

SPEAKER_06: 2:26:48

Yeah. Dang I mean she had complained that she wasn't feeling well and she had battled breast cancer five years ago. Um, but that was she was in remission. And so it was kind of a whiplash that she was in remission, and then now she has stage four cancer.

SPEAKER_02: 2:27:04

Dang.

SPEAKER_06: 2:27:05

Um and so I my mom is my best friend.

SPEAKER_02: 2:27:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 2:27:10

She was my best friend. So once I moved out of my house back when I was young, um, where we butted heads all the time, she became her and I became like this when we weren't living together. Wow. And yeah, you're out of her hair. Right. She's out of mind.

SPEAKER_04: 2:27:30

Oh man, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to laugh.

SPEAKER_05: 2:27:34

It's okay.

SPEAKER_06: 2:27:35

Yeah. And so it's beautiful. We just became the best of friends, and I would call her every day. And so as time went on, I just knew like in my heart, this is not gonna end well.

SPEAKER_04: 2:27:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 2:27:49

And um God was preparing you for he really was, he really was. And so um, I remember my mom said, you know, if you want to call the doctors and ask any kind of questions, you can. And so I remember calling them to ask about a timeline because they had offered one to her and she said, I don't want to know.

SPEAKER_04: 2:28:11

And did your mom know the Lord?

SPEAKER_06: 2:28:15

Yes. I can I can say that, yes.

SPEAKER_04: 2:28:18

Amen. Amen. So she had peace with whatever was coming.

SPEAKER_06: 2:28:23

Not initially, okay, but when she transitioned over into no longer pursuing treatment, um, I was able to have some really, really sweet conversations with her.

SPEAKER_02: 2:28:35

Wow.

SPEAKER_04: 2:28:36

That's awesome. Man, that's a that's strength right there. Yeah, that's what I see. I just see um yeah, strength from a daughter being able to be aware of what's going on with my best friend slash mom and knowing that this is probably not gonna turn out the way that we wanted to. So let's go ahead and have some conversations about life. Right. And so I bet you guys, I bet something's telling me that you grew even closer to mom in this season.

SPEAKER_06: 2:29:18

I think so.

SPEAKER_04: 2:29:19

Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 2:29:20

Wow. I remember when my mom in 2011, my mom knew she wasn't feeling good. And um she even told me one time, Eddie, I made my peace with John Ray.

SPEAKER_06: 2:29:34

She told you that?

SPEAKER_01: 2:29:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 2:29:35

I didn't even know Grandma believed I was uh two days before Christmas.

SPEAKER_01: 2:29:47

And my brother was like, Well done. I could play a man up the phone, you know what I mean? And uh woke up and alarm when I was like six thirty in the Call my brother and be like, Did you call me last night? It's like your mom's gone. You know what I mean? And uh she did it the best way because she told my stepdad at the time she was going to the hospital, she knew she was dying. And so they he took her to the hospital and she told my stepdad, Don't call my boys. I don't want him here doting over me. I don't want him here making a big mess and just just go home. I'll be alright. I mean and uh he was barely back at the hospital about an hour when I called and said she was gone. So she knew she was gone. And she she the last thing she didn't want is boys down there making a mess and being crying and being all soppy and that whole thing. She I truly believe with all my heart that she knew she was going and she wanted to go peacefully with nobody crying over her. She just wanted to go. You know what I mean? And she would let us boys deal with it the best way we could, you know what I mean? And I remember just her saying that that I made peace with God and I'm ready to go. And when it did happen, I was like, I'm okay. I'm okay. She she knew she she knew God and she admitted that she made peace with God with whatever that she needed to make peace with God for. And uh the only time I really cried, I remember we went to tortilla class to throw her ashes, and a brother handed me a bag of ashes. My mom was a beautiful person. I love my mom. She was just the best. But I'm holding these ashes and I'm like, damn. This beautiful life comes down to a bag of friggin' ashes, you know what I mean? And that was the only time I cried because that was not my mom. My mom was beautiful, but she was not a bag of ashes, you know what I mean? But I remember me and my brothers throwing her ashes, and that was the only time I really cried, you know what I mean? Because I just knew that it was not the end.

SPEAKER_04: 2:31:51

Amen, Dad. You ever see her again? There would be another time. Amen.

SPEAKER_01: 2:31:54

You know what I mean? And Amen. It never gets easier to not have her. There's still times that I just want to call my mom. You know what I mean? Because she was like you, probably like you. If she was the one I could go to with anything, I could be in jail and call my mom, and she'd be like, I'm coming to catch Eddie. You know what I mean? I flipped a truck on the side of the road and I called my mom, you know what I mean? She's like, Where are you at? I'm coming to get you, you know what I mean? She was just the one that I could go to no matter what. When me and my wife were fighting, I could get the kids in the car, I could go to my mom's. You know what I mean? You did. And just and to know to know I would never have that again sucks. So now I I think what I did was I learned to internalize now. Not really, because I didn't have nobody now. Who can I go to now? You know what I mean? And I still feel that way. Like sometimes I'm like, who can I really go to? Nobody gives a shit like mom, you know what I mean? And so, yeah, it never really gets easier, man. It's just I learned to deal with it. You know what I mean? But I also have a a peace knowing that when my time here's done, I get to see mama again. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. And that gives me peace.

SPEAKER_04: 2:33:04

I remember when I called and you said that and you told me I was in prison. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 2:33:10

The best part was though, she got to see all her boys get their shit together. Come on, buddy. I was the last one to get out of prison. I got out of prison in 2010. She died in 2011. Yeah. And she got to see me get my life together, get my stuff together. And I think she literally waited for me to get out and just I don't know. God knew. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 2:33:32

Yeah, it's tough. It's a tough, it's a tough season um to go through a loss like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 2:33:40

It really is.

SPEAKER_06: 2:33:42

And um so we, you know, we obviously stepped away from celebrate recovery because I'm not in any position to be serving in that capacity. Um and I just um have some church hurt that kind of arose in the midst of all of this. So I feel like because our community was no longer like we weren't serving anymore, so it felt like I lost my community, even though I know I didn't now, but then it felt like that. Yeah, it felt like we lost our church and it felt I knew I was about to lose my mom. Wow. And then I did. Wow. And so I just remember like it seemed like all these pillars, like structural stabilizing pillars of my life just completely collapsed all within a few months of each other.

SPEAKER_01: 2:34:49

Thanks, yes.

SPEAKER_06: 2:34:51

Wow. And um, so it kind of leaves a person feeling alone, isolated, um, displaced because I'm like, well, where can I go now? Amen. Um God, man. And then I felt like, well, I should never leave my home because what if I see people? And then once my mom passed away, I was like, I don't want anybody to ask me how I am because I'm not good.

SPEAKER_02: 2:35:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 2:35:20

Um, so it's just been a really hard like 2025 has been the shittiest year of my entire life. I bet. Like the worst year ever. Wow.

SPEAKER_04: 2:35:32

And something really, really, really good is coming.

SPEAKER_05: 2:35:36

I wonder what it is. I don't know, but it's fully Jesus.

SPEAKER_04: 2:35:41

You're not getting up that easy. Something really, really good is coming.

SPEAKER_06: 2:35:46

I remember like crying out to Justin asking him, Well, when is our marriage gonna fall apart? Because that seemed to be like the last stabilizing pillar that was still there. Wow. Um, and he obviously we're fine, you know, we're we're better than ever because going through something like this changes you. Oh, yeah. Like I'm not the same person that I was prior to June 5th.

SPEAKER_02: 2:36:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 2:36:13

When my when my mom was here, I was different, and now she's not, and I'm not the same. And so, you know, circling back to the beginning, who is Katie? I don't know. I don't know this Katie without my mom. Wow.

SPEAKER_04: 2:36:30

Anne. Anne. So I feel like there may be some people that are watching or listening right now that you can actually speak to some something practical. They need some practical things in how to deal with what you guys may be going through and feeling. What what has been helping you personally in this season?

SPEAKER_06: 2:37:04

Well, I go to grief counseling for one.

SPEAKER_04: 2:37:07

Like with a one-on-one, a therapist? One-on-one.

SPEAKER_06: 2:37:10

Okay. Um and I used to think that I was disassociating by over like over-exercising or reading to like kind of disassociate from life.

SPEAKER_04: 2:37:28

Staying busy?

SPEAKER_06: 2:37:30

Yeah, but it it felt like, oh, I don't want to deal with my stuff right now. I'm gonna go for a high necking. Yes. Or I I don't want to feel this emotional loss and the pain. So I'm gonna go smash my legs at the gym because then I can be distracted by the physical pain. That's tolerable.

SPEAKER_08: 2:37:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_06: 2:37:51

Um, and when I processed this with my counselor, she told me that I'm actually feeling it, which is why, and I'm giving myself temporary relief in very healthy ways. Yeah. But I didn't think that initially, so I needed help figuring that out. So, you know, for someone who's listening, like it's okay to distract yourself from the grief because you have to be able to have an an outlet. Yeah. Um and healthy. Yeah. Healthy. Right. Yeah. And healthy's gonna look different for everybody, right? Like, I like to read books that allow me to go to a different world because maybe in that world their mom still exists. Yeah, right. Or maybe it's all happy go lucky there.

SPEAKER_04: 2:38:43

Yeah. Or it's like an eight-mile hike up a mountain.

SPEAKER_06: 2:38:46

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04: 2:38:48

Yeah. That pain just takes you away from it's a different right.

SPEAKER_06: 2:38:53

And it distracts my brain. Your brain. And uh and gives me a bit of a reprieve.

SPEAKER_04: 2:38:57

Okay.

unknown: 2:38:58

Yep.

SPEAKER_04: 2:39:00

Is there anything else?

SPEAKER_06: 2:39:02

You just gotta take it one day at a time. One day at a time. One day at a time, and literally one moment at a time. So I think I I don't believe that I would have survived this loss if it weren't for recovery. Yeah. Um because all the things that I've learned in recovery, one day at a time, one moment at a time, um, you know, connecting with people. Yeah. Um, I had a few people in my life that I thought would be there for life. And God showed me they were there for a season. So to go through a loss like this and have nobody there that I expected, and yet people there that I never expected. Um, I now I I realize I have community, right? I have community, I have a church family. Um, those pillars are getting rebuilt, even though they're just under construction.

SPEAKER_04: 2:40:00

It's good. It's good. And there's new ones coming.

SPEAKER_06: 2:40:04

Massive remodel over here.

SPEAKER_04: 2:40:06

It's totally good. It's totally good. I love what I've gotten to see. Um it just, I truly feel honored and and blessed to be able to watch what God's doing in your life and in the other women and people that are coming around that you had no clue or no expectation that this was gonna come. And for just the real church to just come and just love. What do you what do you need?

SPEAKER_06: 2:40:42

When you when you serve for a long time, it becomes part of just what you do, right? And it's it's a it's a good part and it's satisfying and fulfilling. But I also realize I am not in a season to do that, and it's really refreshing to let other people serve me right now. Like it's really refreshing to to show up and not set anything up and not worry about what the agenda is and just let people love on me right now.

SPEAKER_01: 2:41:21

Amen.

SPEAKER_06: 2:41:21

And and I kind of just want to soak that in as long as I need.

SPEAKER_01: 2:41:25

You should, yeah. You seem like the kind of person who was Gabe a lot, selfless, you know what I mean? And making sure that other people were okay and making sure that other people got their healing, and this is your season to just receive. Sit and receive, man. Because sometimes the encouragers don't get encouraged. Amen. Amen to that. And so sometimes there just needs to be a season where we can step back and just let and be a receiver of encouragement, be a receiver of someone doing all that for you. You know what I mean? And I also believe that those pillars had to be torn down so God could put up stronger ones. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 2:42:09

Amen.

SPEAKER_04: 2:42:09

Ones for ones.

SPEAKER_01: 2:42:10

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05: 2:42:11

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 2:42:12

And watch what he does, friend. Yeah. I don't know what that looks like for you, sis. I just know that whatever he's building now is gonna be stronger than you ever dreamed or imagine. The ones that you thought were there that were strong and sustained you for a season were, but these ones are gonna be for quite a time. Quite a time. Yeah, you know what I mean? Thank you, God. Thank you. Yeah, so don't dislike the construction. I'm gonna dislike it. Sometimes it's messy, sometimes it's dirty, sometimes there's crap all over the place. You know what I mean? It's not my vibe. But in the end, you'll see, wow, this is really beautiful. Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 2:42:58

Yeah, I don't think anybody wakes up in a remodel, like under construction, and they're just like, oh, this is the best ever. Come check this out.

SPEAKER_04: 2:43:06

You ever seen the movie Money Pit? No, oh, it just keeps costing more and more and more. Are we ever gonna be finished with this?

SPEAKER_01: 2:43:14

They buy this house, it's like supposed to be this big mansion and they're remodeling. Money pit. All they're doing is just like never, it's just a chaos, you know what I mean? And that's what I see is just it feels like chaos right now. It feels like this is never gonna end. And when is this gonna be done? And just just know that when it's done, it's just stronger and more beautiful than ever. Not just the pillars, you yeah, yeah. And when I'm talking pillars, I'm talking you. Right, you're the pillar, right? Yeah, you know what I mean. God had to tear down some things in you so he could build up this stronger, more powerful Katie who's gonna be able to get through things that she feels like she can't right now.

SPEAKER_06: 2:43:52

Right.

SPEAKER_04: 2:43:53

You're you're depending on God right now in ways that with mama here you weren't.

SPEAKER_06: 2:43:58

Amen to that.

SPEAKER_04: 2:43:59

Yeah, that's really you're it's a it's you're developing this confidence and this strength in him that he's gonna use.

SPEAKER_06: 2:44:07

Yes, and I think also like I I have never been super disciplined about reading my Bible in entirety. Like I would read sections or jump around or do devotionals. Okay. Um, and at the beginning of the year, I decided that I'm gonna read books in entirety of the Bible.

SPEAKER_10: 2:44:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 2:44:29

And so by doing that, I have been able to grow so much closer with God and understand who He is more intimately than cherry picking. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And so um there that's been really good for me too, because as I feel displaced, I know I can always go to His Word. Yeah. So if I'm not in a um if I'm not active in a church right now, or I'm not serving, or I'm not going to regular CR meetings because I'm focusing on my grief and counseling and things like that, like there's a lot of transition. Yeah. And his word will never change.

SPEAKER_01: 2:45:15

It's sustainable. Yes, it's faithful.

SPEAKER_06: 2:45:17

So it feels like an anchor when everything else is just kind of out of control.

SPEAKER_01: 2:45:23

That's so good.

SPEAKER_06: 2:45:24

And I've been able to really get into that and just one one chapter at a time, right? And and kind of move through, and and it's been really good for my spiritual health to do that.

SPEAKER_04: 2:45:38

Amen. So I have to ask, what can you shas there been like a a day or an encounter or something that really just marked you with God? And it was like, oh, ever since then I've been different.

SPEAKER_06: 2:45:59

That's a good question. And it's totally okay if not, because it's like I I feel like because I've known who God was, yeah, that the the honest answer to that is no, but I've had multiple encounters where he's made himself very well like present and guided certain direction.

SPEAKER_04: 2:46:27

You can look back on it and be like, oh, I see you. Right. I see you there.

SPEAKER_06: 2:46:32

I mean, probably the most recent one is when I was directly going against wise counsel to go to that trivia night, but God never stopped me. And so I kind of not that I'm saying it's a good idea to go against, but I think that's where really being in tune with the Holy Spirit is always going to supersede the word of man.

SPEAKER_01: 2:46:56

Come on, he'll give you that.

SPEAKER_06: 2:46:58

Yes, in your yes, he'll always confirm if the word you're receiving is yes, because I've been in places before where I'm like, I don't know that I really should be here. And then something happens and you're like, oh, that's why I shouldn't have been here.

SPEAKER_08: 2:47:15

Right?

SPEAKER_06: 2:47:15

And so when that wasn't happening, I'm like, okay, God is God has something for me. I just don't know what it is. And I didn't necessarily think that in route either. I just was like, well, he hasn't stopped this. So that's probably one of the most dominating ones I can think about.

SPEAKER_01: 2:47:32

Okay. We've done enough of these that we've seen two different things that happen. It's that God, over a period of time with encounters like that, shown himself just faithful. And a lot of people that have those ones have known God from a young age. Yeah, they don't remember this particular moment. It's just God's always been present and showed himself in some. And then you got people like myself who've never, I didn't grow up in church, didn't know God. I have a moment. You know what I mean? And it was the sensation I got at Phoenix Meaning's church when I went with them. Why am I crying? How do I feel like that? I'm not an emotional person, I don't cry, but here I was at church balling like a little baby, and I couldn't figure out why. I took a little eight-year-old girl to tell me, that's the Holy Spirit. You know what I mean? So I get it. Sometimes people just have this, just have known that God has been there their entire life, and that's a beautiful thing. Right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not everybody has to have a burning bush moment.

SPEAKER_06: 2:48:24

Yeah, I I don't know that I have one.

SPEAKER_01: 2:48:27

Yeah. And that's okay. That's okay. Because God seems to have shown you throughout your entire life that He's been with you. Right. He's protected, He's provided you, He's given you the man you needed. Yes, I said that right. A Catholic girl knew God all her life religious people. Just kidding.

SPEAKER_04: 2:48:45

What are you have first before we go, have you shared everything with mama and the season you're currently in and the transition? Do you feel like you're at a good place with that?

SPEAKER_06: 2:48:59

Yeah. Um, well, I'm not in a good place. You know, you know what I mean. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_04: 2:49:05

Yeah. So what are what are you hoping for and believing for in the future? What are for ministry and your anything your job, a ministry, maybe a win a thing for women that he's calling you to, uh jails or prisons?

SPEAKER_06: 2:49:22

What well I think one thing I didn't share is that like once we got into recovery and started like diving deep into church, I really shut out the world. Yeah. And I realized, okay, I need to dive all in because the world is an unsafe place to be. And obviously, from times past, I was too easily influenced in a negative way to where I wasn't on the path I wanted to be on, right? And it's not where God would have wanted me. So once I dove all in, I now am kind of like in a spot where I have the tools and the resources and the strength to be able to endure the world and kind of reintegrate back in there to minister to people who will never come into church.

SPEAKER_04: 2:50:21

That's right.

SPEAKER_06: 2:50:21

Because there's a and so that's a long term hope of mine is to be able to Do you know what that looks like? I wish I did.

SPEAKER_01: 2:50:32

Oh God, I wish you did too.

SPEAKER_06: 2:50:34

I wish I did. And and maybe when God gives really clear direction, I can come back and share that. But I I've had encounters with people out in, you know, whether it's a bar or hiking or restaurants or just, you know, at the grocery store at the gym. Um I I I go to a fitness classes regularly, and there's a lot of people there that do not have the same faith as me. And so I've been able to share these things um subtly, but I have a way of being able to connect with them to where I'm not like churchy. You know what I'm saying? Because I also feel like the Christian faith has a lot of work to do.

SPEAKER_04: 2:51:18

A lot, right? They've got a lot of apologize and repentance.

SPEAKER_06: 2:51:21

Yeah, we have a bad stigma with a lot of people that really need to know the Lord.

SPEAKER_04: 2:51:28

It's why that old lady looked at you. Oh, you're one of those Christians. Right. It's real.

SPEAKER_06: 2:51:33

I actually never even disclose that I am. Yeah. Unless unless somebody directly asks, right? I'm not gonna lie, but I'll share scripture from a place of like, you know, kind of common language. Yeah. Like, oh, treat people how you want to be treated. We know that comes from Luke, right? But and the world knows that. They may not know where it comes from, but they've heard it. So there's a lot of things like that. They try and drop God's truth because the truth is true.

SPEAKER_10: 2:51:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 2:51:59

Um, and so if I can go into places where these people would never to come here.

SPEAKER_01: 2:52:04

Yeah. People should, you shouldn't, you shouldn't even have to share scripture with somebody for them to know that you are a believer. Look at your life. By the way that you love people, by the way that you treat people, by the way you speak kindly, by the way that you are generous, by all these different things without ever saying a scripture at all.

SPEAKER_06: 2:52:23

Exactly. Or or saying, like, oh, I'm a Christ follower. Right. I just am really turned off by that.

SPEAKER_01: 2:52:30

If you truly live in the way that you should be, somebody should be able to come up to you and be like, Why are you the way that you are?

SPEAKER_06: 2:52:37

I ask that about my dog all the time. Why is she the way she But you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_04: 2:52:41

You didn't train her.

SPEAKER_05: 2:52:44

I didn't, Justin did.

SPEAKER_01: 2:52:47

But if you're truly loving people and being kind to people, your life speaks for you. Yeah. Pronouncing that you're a Christ's follower, that somebody should be like, there's something different about you. What?

SPEAKER_06: 2:52:57

Well, it's it says that in scripture that we we will be known that we're his followers by our love and the fruit. And so I think you're a hundred percent correct that that is a testament to that truth of God's word.

SPEAKER_01: 2:53:10

I hate seeing on social media where you get these people who go to uh certain parades and they want to swear and be, for lack of a better word, jackasses. And I literally want to go stand next to that person and be like, he doesn't speak for my God. The God he's talking about is not the God I serve. The God I serve loves you, loves you, and I apologize that he's being the way that he is, he does not represent my Jesus. You know what I mean? Because you should never go out there and tell people that they're living an abomination, that they're sinners and they're going to hell. They know that already.

SPEAKER_06: 2:53:51

I I am I have earned that too. Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_01: 2:53:54

Yeah, and it bothers me, it pisses me off. I'm like, you do not represent the Jesus that I love.

SPEAKER_06: 2:54:01

The wage of sin is death. None of us are exempt from that wage.

SPEAKER_01: 2:54:06

No, thank you. Then people need to know that your God loves them. Yeah, he forgives you. Not that you need to change or you're living in bombing. God loves you just the way that you are. He ain't hating on you. I'm sorry, he's making you feel that way. That's not my God. And that I hate that they do that. That's not the representation of Jesus.

SPEAKER_05: 2:54:31

Right. We have work to do. See what I'm saying? We got a lot of work to do.

SPEAKER_01: 2:54:35

Yeah. Yeah. We used to do street ministry, man, and it was God, the most rewarding, and most hardest, most lovingest thing. There was always one. And it just There was always one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 2:54:49

That would be an interesting thing to do.

SPEAKER_04: 2:54:52

Oh, we used to have fun. We used to go to the food bank ministry on Monday afternoon when he had his half days. Load up my truck. We'd load up his truck. Then we were loading up my truck. And we were going to Apache Junction through all the different trailer parks by the church we were going to and just ask people, hey, you need any food? Toilet paper? Dude, this one kid came out one time and got these rolls of toilet paper. Mom, we got toilet paper. We don't have to use Kleenex anymore. I was like, um.

SPEAKER_01: 2:55:17

And we had candy bars for him.

SPEAKER_04: 2:55:19

Yeah, yeah. He was more happy for candy paper.

SPEAKER_05: 2:55:25

I can't say that I don't. I'm in there.

SPEAKER_04: 2:55:28

Yeah. Newspapers.

SPEAKER_05: 2:55:30

Something I never want to run out of. Do you remember when the toilet paper was running out? My worst nightmare.

SPEAKER_04: 2:55:38

Circle K was my best friend.

SPEAKER_06: 2:55:40

Another thing I will tell you that I, you know, I kind of hope for is being in a season of grief has allowed me the opportunity to show up for others in grief. Come on. And so um I don't necessarily want to go to services for people that maybe I didn't know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 2:56:08

Um, that's real there.

SPEAKER_06: 2:56:10

But I I have now decided that if I can go, I'm gonna make a conscious effort to go. Wow. Um because I and and when I'm there, I'm trying to learn about the person who died. Yeah. So I'm looking at the family, I'm observing what people are doing, how they're interacting. Um, I'm listening to the tributes that people share.

SPEAKER_02: 2:56:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 2:56:37

You know, at a reception, um, I somebody says, Well, how did you know them? I want to be able to say, I didn't, but I sure wish I did. They sound like a lovely person.

SPEAKER_04: 2:56:50

Wow. Right. That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_06: 2:56:52

Or I I I see the the pamphlet, right? Because I'm in the middle, that dash on my gravestone. I'm creating that now. We all are. And so I want to be able to look at somebody who's now got a beginning, a dash, and an end. And I want to be able to say something to their loved one about who they were. Wow. Like share their legacy. Yeah. Because it's so, as someone who's grieving, it's really important for people to know that's who my mom was. Yeah. Right? This is how she looked. This is the kind of person she was. So if somebody can share that with me, then I know she's not forgotten. Yeah. Right. Her legacy lives on. Um, traditions will be kept there. And so if I can share those truths and encouragement with other people, I want to be someone who does that.

SPEAKER_04: 2:57:46

That's really good. Wow. People avoid those situations and those things, and you're like, no, I want to do that. That's amazing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 2:57:55

I I can't say that I haven't avoided them in the past. Amen. And that's kind of where I see God taking me is again, I wouldn't choose you're being obedient and you're you're surrendered, your life. And there's been some really awkward encounters that I've had at a few of the services. I mean, just my mom died in June, and it's November, so it's been tomorrow will be five months, and I've gone to I think three services for people that I didn't know. Wow. And I feel awkward about it, but but I'm I'm learning how to show up and I'm I'm going in with this mentality. What can I learn about this person and what am I going to choose to share with their loved one? Wow.

SPEAKER_04: 2:58:42

That's really good. That's really good.

SPEAKER_01: 2:58:46

Thanks, sis.

SPEAKER_06: 2:58:47

Yeah. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_04: 2:58:49

Yeah. This has been amazing. I think I got some healing. I can't believe you said yes.

SPEAKER_01: 2:58:56

Me neither. I'm really shocked by it. Hearing you talk and I'm just like, wow, what? I don't know, man. I feel honored what I do. I know I said that at the beginning, but now I really do. Really do, sis. Um, just knowing how hard this was for you to come and share. And that you did say yes, and that you we get to see you flexing your God muscles.

SPEAKER_03: 2:59:19

Come on, man. You know what I mean? We can do hard things.

SPEAKER_01: 2:59:23

I don't know, man. I just feel really honored by that, sis. I hope you know that.

SPEAKER_06: 2:59:27

Yeah. I think this is a really cool gig that you guys have to be obedient to the how we got it.

SPEAKER_01: 2:59:33

Yeah, I really don't. This is all him. I really don't. We this I can't tell you maybe to ask God. I'm like, why? Why us?

SPEAKER_05: 2:59:43

It's pretty cool. It's freaking awesome, man.

SPEAKER_01: 2:59:45

It's amazing.

SPEAKER_05: 2:59:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 2:59:47

It's awesome. We literally get people that I don't know. I've never met a networking. It's a thing. People person? Not a people person. What's the internet? And and hear somebody for the first time share their story that you don't know. And I probably had a conversation with a stranger that nobody's ever gonna have ever again with this person. And I got to sit here and receive that. But I don't I don't take that lightly. That's I keep using the word honor because that's what God keeps telling me is this honor that comes that I'm not worthy to sit here and hear your story. I'm not, I'm nobody. But yet for you to say yes and come and sit with me and share your story for God's glory, I'm like, how the hell did I get this gig? I am not worthy of this, God. Obviously, you find me worthy of this, but I don't feel like I'm worthy of this because who the hell am I? You know what I mean? But yet here I am, and it's baffling.

SPEAKER_04: 3:00:54

It's baffling. You need to start speaking those self-affirmations that she speaks over herself. You need to start doing that, dad. I'm a king's kid, I'm a child of God, I'm a son of God, I'm a man of God. I get it. I'm royalty. Uh it's one thing to get it, but it's another thing to believe it and speak it over yourself. Yeah. And so it just it's really good. In recovery for a reason, bud. Take your next step, dude. If I was there, would be in recovery. Amen. Pray for our friend, pray for our sister, man. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for having me. I hope you guys were blessed, man.

SPEAKER_01: 3:01:33

Uh Father God, Lord, man, just I think I said it at the beginning, God, who are we that you are mindful of us, God? I know that we are kings, kids, that we are royalty, that we are joint heirs to the throne. I know that, God. My heart knows that. My mind has trouble with that sometimes, God. But because of what you did, you find us worthy, God. And I am so thankful for that, God. But I'm also thankful that your daughter would find the strength and courage to say yes and come sit down with two fools and share her story, God. Thank you, God. And I am so touched and so honored by that, God, that I just I feel like I got to sit in front of royalty and hear and listen to her just testify of your goodness, God. That she's known you all her life. That you've shown up time and time to time just to show yourself faithful and to remind her who she is, God. And I thank you for this season that she's in right now, God. Grieving is never easy, Lord. So I pray right now, Holy Spirit, that you just give her some peace, God. Let her think of her mom and feel joy, feel excitement that she had those times with her God. Not everybody has a relationship like that with their mother, God. Yeah. So I pray that when those things rise up and she wants to cry, let it be a cry of joy because she had that time with her mom, God.

unknown: 3:03:04

So good.

SPEAKER_01: 3:03:06

Help her to see, God, that it's just for a time that she will be apart. There will come a time again, God, where she'll walk hand in hand and have conversations and stories with her mom on the other side of eternity. Hallelujah. And in the scheme of long things, this time apart, it's just gonna be a small little blip in the scheme of eternity, God. So right now, by the power of your spirit, I speak peace to her heart. Speak peace to her mind, God. I thank you for it right now in Jesus' name, God. Lord, she spoke and she said that she wants to do things in the community, God, that she wants to get out into the world where people are hurting and broken, God, and she wants to go and be a light, a voice of hope, a voice of truth to those who are lost and broken, God. She said she didn't know what that looks like, God. So how can she go do it unless you show her what it is that you want her to do, God? Clearly. So I thank you, Lord, that in dreams and visions that she's gonna have, God, she's gonna see it clear as day of what you expect from her and what you're calling her to do, God. We know that there are women out there who need her. Jesus. There are women out there that she's gonna be able to speak life into, God. There's women out there that she's gonna be able to speak hope into, God. So I pray, Lord, God, again, for dreams and visions of what that looks like, God. And I know that your daughter will be faithful to be obedient, God, and go do those things that you're asking her to do. And Lord, I thank you for her husband. I thank you for her marriage. Thank you, God. I thank you for that relationship, God. Lord, I thank you that they've been through some things, God, and they're still standing firm, God. And I thank you, Lord, for this new season that's coming, God. Let it be a season of just blessing, God. Let it be a season of just joy and prosperity, God, in Jesus' name, Lord. Lord, I pray just for a supernatural understanding of how to communicate with each other, God. Thank you, Lord. Let forgiveness be a language that they speak often, God. Let them be slow to anger and quick to listen, God.

unknown: 3:05:09

Thank you, Jesus.

SPEAKER_01: 3:05:11

So I thank you, Lord, that we're going to be able to slow down and hear our spouses. Because if we listen long enough, we'll know what they need and we'll be able to respond in a way that is according to what they need, God. I pray you do the same thing for Justin, God. Give him ears to hear the things that Katie needs in those moments, God. Help him to see it and to know it and to respond in a way that will be helpful. Thank you for the pillars. Thank you, Lord. See these big, beautiful, strong white ivory pillars, God. The whale will stand the test of everything that's thrown at it. It will not be shaken, they will not be moved, but they will stand firm and test the time, God. Again, I speak peace to your daughter. Speak peace to her heart and her mind, God. Kill her in ways that only you can, Lord. And she will glorify you in it. I thank you for it in Jesus' name.

SPEAKER_04: 3:06:16

Amen. Katie, can you do us a favor and pray for Speak Life and pray for me and Dad? Yes. I would love to do that. Thank you. Thank you, sis.

SPEAKER_06: 3:06:27

Dear Heavenly Father, I just thank you so much for um for Rowdy and Eddie and just the the way that they have chosen to obey your calling. Um to to open this platform and use it as a way to glorify you. I pray that you would um bring them people to continue to share their stories and just allow them to witness to the goodness that you do in our lives, Father, that you you can restore what's broken, you can rebuild what gets destroyed. Thank you, God. And Father, you you're just so, so good. And there's nothing in this world that can happen to us that you won't use for your good.

SPEAKER_02: 3:07:16

Thank you, Lord.

SPEAKER_06: 3:07:17

And I just ask that this platform would be a vessel to point people to you, to allow people to glorify you.

unknown: 3:07:28

Thank you, Lord.

SPEAKER_06: 3:07:28

Um, and I pray that in these conversations that Rowdy and Eddie would just be open and receptive to everything that you would have, um, that these people that share so vulnerably, that you would penetrate their hearts and allow them to see what it is that you want them to to work on in their lives or the healing that that you're gonna give them, Father. Um I just ask that you continue to bless this ministry that they have, speak life, um, that it really would allow lives to be radically changed, and that it would speak your abundant life into the souls of everyone that chooses to listen. Thank you, Lord. And I pray all these things in Jesus' name, amen.

SPEAKER_04: 3:08:10

Amen. Thanks again. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_06: 3:08:13

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04: 3:08:14

Uh, everybody, I don't know where you are watching from, where you're in the Netherlands in the Netherlands. We love you, man. Keep listening, subscribing. Uh, the numbers are showing up. Um, but if you could please um like the channel, subscribe to it on YouTube, hit the little bell, um, you'll get all the future notifications. We're actually getting ready to uh start developing some shorter videos from the podcast. So we're just stepping into some new stuff, learning some new things, growing, uh growing. Um it's all good, man. But if if uh maybe you yourself um know somebody who has a great testimony, or or you yourself um just reach out uh through social media, Facebook or Instagram, um speak life az, all one word, and send us a message. I'll get back to you, and I'd love to get you on the schedule to come and share. Thank you, Lord. Um maybe God's put a blessing in your life and you're able to sew resources. Um we're believing one day that we can have some in-air headphones and some different things to kind of upgrade the studio. Um, if you're able to help, you can support the show.

SPEAKER_03: 3:09:24

Come on.

SPEAKER_04: 3:09:24

Um we we can use all the support we can get. Um and please, uh wherever you're at, comment even one word, just type Jesus on there or speak life. Um, there's just something about what when people comment about what it does for the algorithms and the stuff in the back. Um, but until next time, we're gonna continue to speak life, AZ. God bless you. Jesus.