Mike N. Testimony

A forged birth certificate at fourteen. A six-figure salary at twenty-four. A bathroom floor, a loaded needle, and a battering ram at the door. Mike’s story moves fast because he spent years running—through promotions, pills, benzos, Suboxone, and the lie that more success would finally make him whole. He tried a church row seat and a secret habit at the same time. He tried a fresh start in Florida and ended up with an arrest, an anxiety spiral, and a doctor who handed him a pharmacy. He even got extradited across the country over a pair of stolen headphones. Still, grace kept finding him.

The turning point wasn’t tidy. It sounded like a man shouting into a squad car ceiling, “I want Your will, not mine,” and watching the back door swing open as police let him walk. It looked like a cop asking, “Do you want help?” and driving him to the first real step toward detox. It felt like grief over a dying father, and forgiveness from a woman named Rachel who chose to believe there was more to him than his worst moments. Then came a Sunday night at Teen Challenge: a simple word from a visiting minister, a collapse to blue carpet, and a flood of tears as fear, shame, and striving finally released. Deliverance brought him out; discipleship has kept him out.

Today, Mike serves instead of performs. He mentors at church, drives vans so men can meet godly leaders, and helps launch Recovery Church—an open-door bridge between the rooms and the sanctuary—where worship, the gospel, and honest small groups meet people early in recovery. He and Rachel founded Redeemed & Restored Ministries to open recovery discipleship homes and build a pathway from detox to durable freedom: spiritual formation, financial literacy, honest community, and a sober re-entry that lasts. Ask him what he prays for most and he’ll tell you straight: his kids to know Jesus and live free.

If you’ve ever believed you were too far gone, press play. You’ll hear how God uses cops and courtrooms, mercy and mentors, to write a better ending. Then share this with someone who needs hope, subscribe for more stories like this, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway—what moment moved you most?

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome, Faith And “Teen Challenge” Bonds
• 6:45 Mike’s Early Years And First Wounds
• 19:30 Teenage Rebellion And Drugs Escalate
• 33:10 Young Love, Fast Money, Fading Soul
• 47:20 Success, Pills, And A Haunted Conscience
• 1:02:30 Church, Internship, And Hidden Double Life
• 1:18:40 Collapse Into Opiates And Suboxone
• 1:33:20 Florida Move, Arrest, And Anxiety Spiral
• 1:48:10 Benzos, Fraud Tactics, And Job Meltdown
• 2:05:00 Extradition For Headphones And Legal Turns
• 2:20:30 Sobriety Try, Kratom, And Meth Relapse
• 2:36:40 Blues, Needles, And Near-Death Runs
• 2:53:20 Cops, Warrants, And A Door Kicked In
• 3:08:00 “Your Will, Not Mine” And A Door Opens
• 3:18:40 Homeless, An Angel Cop, And Detox
• 3:27:50 Dream Center To Payson: Fragile New Start
• 3:36:30 Dad’s Illness, Grief, And Arizona Charges
• 3:47:40 Love, Forgiveness, And Choosing Teen Challenge

Transcript

SPEAKER_11: 0:17

Welcome back to the Speak Life A Z podcast, the testimony of Jesus and everyday people. I'm your host, Eddie, and always with me is my son Rowdy.

SPEAKER_01: 0:25

Jesus! What's up, buddy? Yeah, bro. Ready for this? I'm so ready for this, man. I love when I get my brothers from uh uh Team Challenge. Yeah, they always have good stories. Yeah, dude. We're the messed up ones that have to be sent away to a center and locked away for God to really change us. You know what don't mean?

SPEAKER_11: 0:47

You know what dawned me today? It seems like the more messed up you were, the more faith you have in Jesus because of the transformation that he's done in you. People that doesn't haven't been through a lot of things. I'm not saying their faith isn't faith, but they have some people who have been through some things and come out of through some things, and like I just let's to say for those who have been forgiven much, love much.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09

Yeah, and that's that's really it's the a love of God, man, that we see what he can bring us out of.

SPEAKER_11: 1:16

Yeah, that just really struck me today, man. I thought that was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00: 1:20

Yeah, he's such a good God. People call us radical, radically delivered and saved by Jesus. Who'd you bring with you, man? Let's get to it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:28

Dude, we got our boy Mike. What's up, Mike? How you doing, man?

SPEAKER_05: 1:31

Good, man. How are you? I'm doing really well, bro.

SPEAKER_11: 1:34

Thanks for coming on, brother. Um thanks for having me. When we started doing this video thing, God made it very clear to us to honor his his children, man, because we know that time is a resource that's not sustainable. You don't get more of it, you can't plan it and get more. It's it's limited. And so when people give us their time to come and share their story, man, it's just it's an honor, brother. It's a privilege to sit down and just uh be with one of God's kids, bro, because we know that uh what he does is amazing, and we can't wait to. I mean, I don't know you personally, Riley may know you a little bit. I don't, so I can't wait to hear what God's done for you, brother. And and again, it's an honor and a privilege.

SPEAKER_05: 2:08

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_11: 2:09

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 2:09

For me, Mike, um before we kind of uh before your graduation and stuff, I think I was able to come into the Phoenix Center and speak to the guys. Um, I was able to give a little word, man, and uh we kind of connected just just right away. Um I could just tell there was something more that God had for you. And I remember seeing you up at the ranch, man, and and just kind of uh another connection. It just that's how that's how me personally in my recovery I I've stayed connected to TC. And because I I didn't the first time I left and I fell hard, man. Um, but so now it's just uh it's cool to be able to go back to a place that Jesus met us at, and now we're able to help some new guys in their walk, man.

SPEAKER_05: 2:55

Absolutely, man. I love it. I love being able to go back and just you know, being in a program like that, it it it's like a I always tell people it's like a fishbowl, like uh this microcosm where everybody who works there, lives there, you're there all the time, you see people there all the time. Things that are like this big, you know, really small, you just think that like it's this huge deal. And then you leave, right? And real life starts. Yeah and um, you know, you gotta make your own breakfast and stuff like that. And you're like, it wasn't as bad as I thought it was. That's when I was there. I would love to be able to go back and have the time that I have there. Come on, man.

SPEAKER_11: 3:37

When he was when he was there, I we used to come visit him and do the Sunday explodes and all that stuff with him. And I told him, I said, You're lucky, dude. I would I would love to be able to step away from my life for a year and just dedicate myself to the Lord and the program. And I'm like, You're what you got is a gift, dude. Yeah, you know what I mean. A lot of guys that are there, they don't see that because a lot of them are forced to be there, you know what I mean? But if you could get them to realize that what you have I went there one time and got to talk to the gentleman too, and I told him, God, you didn't choose to be here. No. Out of all the programs in the world, God picked you to be here for a reason. Yeah, and it is, it's just an amazing place, man.

SPEAKER_05: 4:11

Yeah, I tell everybody now, I'm like, man, this isn't God's punishment, this is God's mercy. I uh I should be dead or I should be in prison right now. Um, those are the two options uh where I actually should be. But because of God's grace and God's mercy, I get to sit here and hang out with you guys today and talk about what you know what God's done in my life. So, yeah, getting to step away from things and have God work out all the stuff that you need to work through, right? Develop your relationship with Christ, forgive the people you need to forgive, repent of the sin that you need to repent of, all that kind of stuff. Yeah, and to have that time to be able to do it is an absolute gift from God.

SPEAKER_11: 4:48

Come on, and so it's all about trying to do that in CR right now, and working and having a life and family and trying to do that, it's a little more challenging. Yeah, because you have life happening, you know what I mean? There, you're separated. You know, the Bible talks about how God separates you. There, He literally separates you, and you have that's your focus. That's it. That's everything. You heal, learn God, walk with Jesus, learn the Bible. It's just I don't know. Yeah, I still would love to give up a year and go there.

SPEAKER_05: 5:13

Yeah, while I was there, I read about 50 or so books. Come on, bro. This year, since I've gotten out, I've I've have two books that I've started. I want to finish them, man, but you know, like the most important part of my day is waking up, diving into the word, and I get up early just to do that, right? But at night is usually when I like to read books. I love John Bevere's books, they're some of my favorite. I read almost every book that he wrote while I was in the program. But now I have his newest book. Got it as soon as it came out, it came out in May. I'm seriously like 120 pages through it. Yeah, and I keep picking it up, and I'm like, man, I wish I had that time where I could just chill. But you know, God is good.

SPEAKER_11: 5:53

Yeah, I I had that in prison. Yeah. When I was in prison, this last time I told my family when I'm leaving, I'm going to four-year Bible college. You know what I mean? And I did. I had the same thing. I don't recommend that. And there I've read every book I could get my hands on. I read my Bible, all these different things. I even told I even told Rowdy, I'm like, the closest I've ever been to God was then.

SPEAKER_00: 6:10

Was when you're in prison.

SPEAKER_11: 6:11

Yeah. Because you have nothing but time. Absolutely. So you can be with the Lord all the time. Out here, you're working, you don't get a little distracted, and that kind of sucks. We should have that opportunity. Right. Yeah, amen. But yeah. Life. Do your spill, bro.

SPEAKER_01: 6:22

Okay, but let me just pray real quick, man. We like to pray around here, but always a good choice. Jesus. Man, God. Um, Lord, I just thank you, Holy Spirit, that you are here. Thank you, Lord. Um, I thank you. You have been uh resting on Mike all all the way over here in the drive and in the car. Um, you've been speaking to him. He's been waiting for this day, God. Thank you, Lord. Um, I know just the connections we've had that this has been something on the calendar we've been looking forward to. Thank you, Lord. Um, you knew, God, a year ago, uh this month, that he'd graduate and he would go on to what he's doing now. Yep. Um Holy Spirit, I just pray that you use his words and use this testimony for your glory today, God. Thank you, Lord. I pray that whoever's listening to this or whoever's watching this, wherever they are, Hong Kong, the Netherlands, or somewhere in America, um, God, that you just speak to their hearts. Yeah, that you speak to their faith. Thank you, Lord. That you stir something in them, God, and draw them closer to you, Jesus. Thank you, sir. Like only you can. Yeah. Um, so Holy Spirit, just have your way in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. Amen. Um, so Mike, when uh when God gave this to us, man, it was uh 2020. Um He seemed to give a lot of people podcasts in 2020 during COVID, man. Um and for the first couple of years, we we were not being obedient to what he told us to do. We're gonna be internet breakfast. We set up a studio in my bedroom, man, had these heavy chairs and the whole thing, and it's like not what God told us to do, and it wasn't going nowhere.

SPEAKER_11: 7:56

Disobedient.

SPEAKER_01: 7:57

We were just doing what we wanted to do, man. That usually works out well. No, it doesn't at all, brother. Um, but so it was the beginning of uh it was the end of 22 and the beginning of 23, and God told us, go back to doing what I told you to do. And it's just a speak life az podcast, the testimony of Jesus and everyday people. Um we all have a story, man. It doesn't matter if you're like dad and you're over at the muffler shop cutting on cars and welding and being a man, dude, and getting dirty all day, or like myself, dude, here at the church and making the making the wheel spin here, man, because Lord knows there's a lot that goes on in the church. Yeah um or like yourself, bro. Um we we all have a story, we all come from somewhere, and when we meet Jesus, things happen in our lives and and after the encounters. Um so really what we want from you today, Mike, is just who are you, bro? Where where did you grow up? Uh, what was your childhood like? Um, what was your relationship with like with your mom and dad, um, brothers and sisters, your family life? What was school like for you? Yeah um grades, sports, hobbies. Was was God in the home when you were growing up? Um and and working in recovery, man, we know that a lot of the stuff later, a lot of the stuff that made made us do all the stuff we were doing, um, it really does come from like childhood traumas and childhood hurts, man. Um so let the Holy Spirit lead you into any of that. Um, but I think the coolest thing we we want from you today is your personal encounter with Jesus. Um mine, it happened in Team Challenge at that blue altar on the right side under that bass speaker thumping. God literally told me, He said, Son, I forgive you, I love you, and I have so much more for you. Dad was literally on a Max security prison yard in Tucson. Tucson? Yep. Yep. Uh SMU, I believe, right? No, it was Cimarron. Cimarron, okay. Um, but we want to know your encounter with Jesus when it became real for you, um, and what that looked like. Um, a lot of people, man, they go through like a process of multiple encounters and God showing his faithfulness through multiple different things. Uh, or like myself, it was just one day, August 26, 2014, my whole life changed. Um, we so we want to know what that looked like for you. And then uh, you know, man, anytime you encounter Jesus, you read the word, people that encounter Jesus that things change.

SPEAKER_11: 10:31

Transformation.

SPEAKER_01: 10:32

Transformation that the the the evidence of life change in someone's life um after they encounter the living God. Yeah. Um, so we want to know how your life changed afterwards. And then I think the coolest thing we get to do, bro, is we want to know what you're believing for in the future um that maybe hasn't manifested yet, that God has put in your heart, um, and things that you you want uh to do for the kingdom, um things that uh we can we can pray for, yeah, um, but we have listeners, man, that are faithful, um, subscribers who who want to pray for you as well. Yep. Um, and then at the end, uh, if you can, if you have a 501c3 or an organization or somewhere where someone can sow a seed to, um, you can you can let us know that, man, because we've got people with resources. Yeah, man. Um God is good, dude. Very good all the time.

SPEAKER_11: 11:22

So what was it like growing up, Mike?

SPEAKER_05: 11:24

Man, man, wow. You an Arizona boy? No. Uh I was born in San Diego in 1980. I'm 45. Okay. Uh my parents were pastors. Oh, nice. Growing up, man. Um, my parents originally were Salvation Army officers, if you're familiar with the Salvation Army. Yep. My uncle as well is a retired commissioner with the Salvation Army. And my parents left the Salvation Army.

SPEAKER_01: 11:50

I don't know what that is.

SPEAKER_05: 11:51

You don't know what the Salvation Army is?

SPEAKER_01: 11:52

I know what the Salvation Army is, but what do you mean an officer?

SPEAKER_05: 11:55

Their pastors are called officers. It's an army, but it's it's uh it's the the fact that they're out there as an army of God, you know, bringing they do a lot of work in recovery. Yeah, okay. They have adult rehabilitation centers all across uh the United States, all across the world. Um the origins of it with William Booth, go back to England, you know, the whole like get back on the wagon thing that came from from them putting people on a wagon, like dragging them off the streets and stuff. So it's got a pretty um pretty big history when it comes to that. Their churches are typically pretty small, but they do a lot of their work during the week between you know just re um outreach into the community and all that kind of stuff. They do a lot of good. Um but uh my parents got involved in the Salvation Army because my dad's dad was an alcoholic. He grew up in Los Angeles, he was on Skid Row the whole nine, he would come home and you know just get sick all over the house, and my grandma would take care of him, and then he would disappear for you know times and come back. It was a whole thing, and the Salvation Army took really good care of my dad and and his his siblings and and his mom, and so they got involved in that, and then uh his older brother got involved, became an officer, and then kind of worked his way up in the organization and retired as a commissioner. Uh and then my my parents decided to go into the Salvation Army, and they they did. They went through their seminary, became pastors for them, officers is what they call it. And then in 80, when I was born, they decided to move to uh San Diego. They were in the San Francisco area at the time, and start a church with some really good friends of theirs, um non-denominational church. They decided that whatever the red tape that goes along with the big ornament organization they weren't into. And so my earliest days all I remember is church, man. It was home churches, and uh my parents taught me about Jesus from a really young age, I believe.

SPEAKER_11: 13:46

Would you consider yourself a PC? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 13:49

Oh yeah, yeah, oh yeah. Most of my life that's what they what they did. So they uh they had this this small, you know, church where it was home churches and all that. So that's really what I I grew up in, man. Just people's backyards church. I uh accepted Jesus at a young age. I remember doing that with my mom when I was little, and I believed what they taught me. Yeah. Um, and I was baptized at a young age, and then in 87 uh they decided to leave uh that church and that whole thing and go back into the Salvation Army. That's kind of a lot of my story growing up. It was a lot of in and out of that organization and a lot of moving. And so that was the first move of like 6,753. I'm being a little bit facetious, but we did move a lot. Um we moved, and so when you're with the Salvation Army and you go back in, man, you and you're at the lowest rank, right? They put you out in the middle of nowhere. So they stationed us in Twin Falls, Idaho, which is like the armpit of the Northwest, right? It's southern Idaho, man.

SPEAKER_01: 14:54

Sorry for everybody in Twin Falls. You need some deodorant.

SPEAKER_00: 14:59

It smells there, it really does.

SPEAKER_05: 15:03

So it's it's just totally different. You know, you go from that and everything was just good, and I remember the conversation that they had with us. But at that time, I was seven, man, and you're like, whatever. All right, let's go to Idaho.

SPEAKER_11: 15:13

Just going with the flow.

SPEAKER_05: 15:14

And I loved playing baseball, man. So I played sports, and I really didn't, I didn't really think about it. And then the the pivotal moment of my life that really kind of changed the trajectory of everything was when I was when I was nine years old. My parents told us there was this group of kids, don't hang out with them, don't hang out with them. Like they're they're bad. Bad news, bad news, bad news. And I went and hung out with them once, man. Ended up at their adult cousin's house, uh, was exposed to pornography for the first time, drank alcohol for the first time, and was molested at the age of like nine, right? So when that happened, I went through all the things that you go through. I blame myself. Yeah, um, I thought God was mad at me because like I made a dis I disobeyed my parents for the most part. If they told me to do something, I listened. You know, I wasn't like I'm sure we got into it plenty, but like not, I I I was pretty, you know, we we were raised for the most part, pretty solid, just Christian home. And so like I honored my parents. Yeah, and so at that time, man, that was like my first just exposure and experience to that, and that that that kind of just messed me up, right? And then uh they decided again uh in 91, so I was about 11, uh, to leave the Salvation Army again. Uh uh dabbled around with starting a church in that same area, didn't work out, and then they got involved with this like vineyard wine press organization, and we started doing traveling ministry. Oh, so we were homeless, right, for about two years. Wow. And uh we we lived with people, stayed with people, we traveled around in this this van. Me and I had three brothers. I have an older brother five years older than me, and then uh a brother that's two years younger than me, and then my youngest brother's five years younger than me. So we had a positive.

SPEAKER_11: 16:54

Did the Salvation Army like pay well or something? The Salvation Army Is that why your parents keep going back?

SPEAKER_05: 16:59

The Salvation Army is an organization where if you're a pastor for them, you stay in their houses, their cars, you don't have any expenses. Oh wow. Uh they don't pay that well, but you don't have to worry about any of that kind of stuff. You really are kind of they take care of you. They take care of you, and then you know you think that was the draw for your parents?

SPEAKER_11: 17:14

Is having the housing and stuff like that?

SPEAKER_05: 17:17

No, I think they like the help, they help that organization really helps people, man. You get out in the community, you feed people, you get people off the streets. And um, you know, my dad and mom really had a heart for that. Amen. And you know, the the the organization helped my dad a lot when he was a kid. My uncle was super involved in it and working his way up in the ranks. So there was kind of that, and a lot of it was, you know, I I'm sure some stuff happened at the church in San Diego, right? I I don't know all the details, yeah. Um but that probably caused him to make that decision. Yeah, and when I was a kid, man, I was mad about all of it eventually. But now being an adult and having my own adult children and making plenty of mistakes in their life, it gives you a whole new perspective. And they love Jesus ultimately. Yeah, they taught me the the the fundamentals of that, and having parents that bring you up that way is um it's a good thing, it's it's a it's an amazing thing, you know. And so uh which we'll talk about the the disaster that my life became. It was always in the back of my mind, like you know, I know what the solution is. Yeah, mom, buddy. But I'll I'll tell you how long it took to get there. Yeah, we can't do it. We just want to do what we want to do for a little bit. And then some more after that. I swear I can figure it out the stuff. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01: 18:30

The 79th time.

SPEAKER_05: 18:31

So then we're traveling around, and at some points, man, we were living with people that live with people. We lived kind of in Oregon for a little bit back down in California. We ended up in the Seattle area, is where it landed us. So this is about 92, 93. I'm about 13. And uh we end up up there, and my parents kind of go, All right, we're not gonna do the traveling ministry thing anymore. They both get, you know, regular jobs, and we kind of land right there in a suburb of Seattle, uh, Kirkland, which is just east of east of Seattle. I start to make some friends at that time, uh, but I was I was going the opposite way now. I wanted nothing to do with God, I wanted nothing to do with church because I'm like, that just moves me all over the place and get you into bad situations that caused a lot of trauma. And so I was I was done at that point. So I started um using drugs pretty heavily from a right up right from the jump, man. You know, started with weed, gateway drug, right? Um started hanging out with people that skateboarded and did all that stuff because me and my dad kind of bonded, I guess, over sports and baseball. And I'm like, nah, I'm good. I'm just gonna go put on some really big baggy pants and and you know, starting. Yeah, they've all made a comeback now, too. And I'm like, for real? Now I realize from adults to be like, you guys look ridiculous, and like our blind jeans that were like cut at the bottom, but like we're like, you know, oh yeah, buddy.

SPEAKER_01: 19:51

50 inch bottoms. Oh my god. It just looked ridiculous.

SPEAKER_05: 19:55

Yeah. Skateboarding around, you know, just just being a punk. But I um I so I started making some friends. We lived in Kirkland for a little while, right? But I started smoking pot, drinking. I mean, I I wouldn't say no to anything that would be put in front of me. I I I was using cocaine heavily by the time I was 15 and and all that kind of stuff. But at the age of about 14-ish, when I was just about oh, I skipped a grade in in school when we moved to Idaho. I was in the second grade, and the educational system there was a lot further behind than San Diego. So my parents decided to skip me a grade. And uh that was one that later I was like, man, that that sucks. I was always younger than everybody, and I move all around and bounce around from schools, and I'm younger than everybody. It was just uh it was never a fun thing. But uh so at the age of 14, I was about ready to be a sophomore in high school, and then my parents came to us again. Um, the north the conversation of we need to talk to you, and it's like, all right, what's gonna happen now? We're gonna move. We're moving again. And they told us they were going back into the Salvation Army, and so we're like, all right. Um and it didn't move us out of the Seattle area, they moved us from Kirkland about an hour away to Federal Way, which they're two polar opposites when it comes to like like Kirkland's a pretty just like suburban, nice area, not a lot of problems, and Federal Way is like a suburb of Tacoma. Oh yeah, it's a lot more ghetto, I guess is the easiest way to say, and just a lot more stuff that you can get yourself into for lack of a better term. But I mean, really, Seattle is a pretty nice area, all in all. A ghetto up there is probably the nicest area in the place. But the the transition, I was like, I'm done, man. I don't want to move anymore. I'd already been to, at that point, about five elementary schools. I went to three different middle schools. We were also homeschooled for a year when we were traveling around. And so I'm about to, I'm finally making some friends, actually kind of excited to start my sophomore year. So I told my parents, nope, I'm not going. I like just flat out refused. And I found a buddy of mine whose parents said that I could live in his basement. And by buddy of mine, it was a guy that I bought drugs from, uh, bought weed and acid from, and we would go out and just party and hang out at his house.

SPEAKER_11: 22:02

And uh he why is it always those parents that want to let you live? Yeah, yeah. All bad. Yeah, we were yeah, they let me have them. Come on in, guys. Buddy Tim and Tim and what was Tim and Josh. Tim and Josh. Yeah. They were Mormons getting kicked out. We were like, Yeah, you can come stay with us. Yeah, we got drugs. Come on in.

SPEAKER_00: 22:21

Come and get hi in my room, dude.

SPEAKER_05: 22:24

Yeah, it was my he ended up being a a a good friend of mine, but how I met him was, you know, buying drugs. And so his parents let me move into the basement, man. They charged me 150 bucks a month for rent. I was 14, needed to get a job, so I uh altered my birth certificate to say that I was 16. I was born in 80, and so the the zero was easy to turn into an eight, right? They didn't have like Adobe now where I could pretty I could edit things a lot a lot better than I could back then. I just used a pen and then I um or a pencil, I can't remember, and I made a hundred copies until it just kind of couldn't really tell what it's like.

SPEAKER_08: 22:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 22:58

And they took it, man. And so I got a I got a job uh working almost full time, 32 hours.

SPEAKER_11: 23:03

What'd your parents think of that?

SPEAKER_05: 23:04

My parents I didn't live with my parents anymore.

SPEAKER_11: 23:06

I know, but what did they think about you wanting to stay?

SPEAKER_05: 23:08

They just they I just I don't remember it really well. Like, I probably was just a jerk about it, yeah. But it seemed like it was really easy. I was actually like, I looked back on it and I'm like, man, if my son at the age of 14 would have come to me and said, I'm not going with you, I'd be like, get your ass get in the car. It's like, but you know, with all the moving and all the drama and all the confrontations, and I had a brother that was five years. They had like four teenage boys with them. Man, they were probably just like whatever, right? And I I probably just said, It doesn't matter, you know, you can try to drag me out or whatever, but I'm not going. But it seemed like it was pretty, pretty easy. So I uh I was kind of surprised by that. Uh that they just said okay.

SPEAKER_01: 23:49

So up to this point, yep, um, before you get a job and you're living with your buddy, like how was school for you? You said you you were up a grade, so you school was pretty easy for you.

SPEAKER_05: 23:59

School wasn't really an issue. Like I was like, I always got good grades through elementary school, through middle school, I got good grades. I didn't fall off cliff from school until uh a couple years from where I'm not to tell you about it. But um I was a pretty good kid for the most part, even with all the stuff. I didn't cause a ton of problems, but you know, that that's coming. But uh yeah, school-wise, I did I did fine.

SPEAKER_01: 24:22

Um, you know, but so outside of basically the the no stability, just constantly moving and being shipped around to different places and different things and not being able to have a a steady, would you say you had a good childhood?

SPEAKER_05: 24:36

For the most part, I mean uh the story that I told you about being molested was pretty traumatic, and that that messed me up pretty good, man. I uh oh yeah that that just changed the way that I dealt with things. If I didn't like the way things made me feel, I just got to the point where I didn't want to feel them. That was kind of where the drugs kicked in for me. You know, the first time I experienced alcohol was when that happened. I was super confused. When another person of the same sex does that to you, that's an adult, you're like, what the heck? You don't really understand why it happened. You just you're super confused about it. So I was like, I don't ever want to feel that way again. And when I get high, I just am checked out, and it was really, really an escape for me. But for the most part, man, I had I had I had good parents that cared about me.

SPEAKER_11: 25:21

Home life was good, though.

SPEAKER_05: 25:22

Home life was good, like um, you know, normal stuff, or my dad might get mad at me and he might yell at me and stuff like that, but it wasn't anything crazy. Um my parent, my dad didn't drink. Uh the the you can't when you're an officer or a pastor for the salvation arm, you can't drink. So he was I think I saw him like at one point in my life we went to play golf. I saw him like drink like uh two ounces of a beer and then just slide. And I never, I mean, so you know, it wasn't really anything prevalent in the home. They weren't uh drug users, we weren't abused, like other than us bouncing around, and then what happened? That was that was really the the main stuff, right? And starting all the new schools, and so that's kind of where I got when I lived with him, man. And as I was over all of it, and I just didn't want to deal with it. And now I have uh his parents didn't care if I if I would come or go, really. You know, we had a code to the garage, we could come in at all hours of the night. Yeah, I worked pretty much full time and would would go to school, and um, you know, we would skip about as many days as you could skip before you would like to get notified or you could get nine tardies before the tenth one would, you know, mess with you. So it was like just pushed it to the brink, right? We were taking acid at school and getting kicked out and running from security guards and hiding and smoking in the woods and whatever we could do.

SPEAKER_01: 26:38

But you know, we were nobody was gonna tell me no at that point because I was living on my own and yeah, had your own money and what was your first job?

SPEAKER_05: 26:48

Uh taco time, man. Okay, it was a it's a fast food restaurant in the northwest. So, you know, I I rolled burritos and deep fried tacos and worked the drive-through and cleaned up and whatever, man. So I worked there for two years because they took my fake fake base birth certificate. So I wasn't gonna jump. I'm gonna stay. So I'm gonna stay for at least two years. Yeah, and so yeah, man, I did that. I worked basically full time and went to school still, and uh just pushed the brink of of getting in trouble. And uh then at the end of the first year, so uh my friend who I lived with, his dad was abusive. Uh and so when he would catch with him or with you, with him, he wouldn't he wouldn't mess with me, but with him, he would he would catch us with drugs or alcohol, and he would be abused he would call him upstairs, man, and and stuff would happen, and it sucked. And so I told him, man, just blame me. Just tell him it's my fault. If he finds drugs, it's mine. I'm like, stash it right above my bed. Yeah, blame me for it. You don't need to take the blame for it. And so after about a whole year of that, at the end, his dad was his dad told me, like, you gotta go. And I'm like, all right, man, whatever. You know, like it is what it is. So I I couch surfed for the rest of that summer and then finally got to the point where I was like, I guess I have to move back in with my parents, right? Yeah. At this time, though, I'm a junior in high school, and now I gotta move down to another place, start another high school. This is high school number two, and I was bitter about the whole thing and you know, all that kind of stuff. It wasn't my parents' fault, but I was just bitter about all of it. And then when I moved in with them, I just act like they were my roommates. You know, it's like you're not my parents. That's really I I didn't treat them well. Yeah, and my uh cocaine habit got got heavy at that point. I started selling cocaine, doing cocaine. I found I knew somebody who could get me just large amounts of it for pretty cheap where it came from, and then found a lot of people down there that wanted to buy it. And I got myself into a lot of the stupid kind of trouble that you do with people wanting to kill you and beat you up and find out that some like you know, scrawny white boy that's you know 15 or 16 years old has a bunch of cocaine, like this guy. It's like you get yourself into sticky situations and I was heavily using it. I was smoking crack. Um, I wasn't a very good drug dealer because I used a lot of my stuff, right? And so uh heavy, heavy into cocaine. Um and so that just started to get me into all kinds of trouble at school, man. I was getting uh was that like mid-90s? Yeah, mid-90s, 95, 96. You know, I'm I'm bumping two pocket. Oh, yeah, but West Coast, East Coast, me. That's that's the time that it was, and I'm thinking I'm something that I'm not. And uh I really didn't want any trouble. Snicker on your face a lot. Yeah, it was like, oh Jesus. I didn't really want any trouble, but I don't know, man. I was so I was getting in trouble at school, and yeah, I got thrown out of the high school down there. Uh I went to this DECA conference, which is a marketing class that I was a part of, and I stayed out all night to go hang out with some girl, and I missed my curfew, and I was drunk, and the whole city was looking for me and the cops, and they found me passed out on a Dairy Queen bench, and they were like, Are you Michael Noland? And I'm like, No, no. I live right around the corner. I'm just, you know, I'm just like kind of like, no, I live right over there. And he shines his light right on my my name badge from my makes you stupid. And he goes, Man, the entire city of Bellevue, that's where this thing was, is looking for you. Your dad is at this hotel over here where you didn't show back up. Because now that I think about it, like a 16-year-old goes missing in the middle of the night. That's serious. But at the time, I'm like, what do you, you know, like you can't tell me what to do. Like I so that happened. And then all and now I'm in an alternative school, man. And so I'm selling and using more drugs. I remember when I went to that school, they made me take a drug test, and I tested positive for like everything. And my mom's like, cocaine?

SPEAKER_08: 30:38

You know, like what?

SPEAKER_05: 30:40

Like it was just one like tested positive for weed, cocaine, probably had meth in my system. I had everything in the system, right? And uh I remember that.

SPEAKER_11: 30:48

Do you think that was the first time your mom like it dawned on you?

SPEAKER_05: 30:50

I think it really kind of clicked like how bad. Like she knew that I was being stupid, but when it's like everything was laid out that was in my system, you know, and I didn't care. I was flipping about it. I didn't care. I just smoked in front of them now. I cussed, I didn't just whatever I could. So I I was not being a good son by any shape of the imagination. So that happens, and then um they're with the Salvation Army, so the Salvation Army will move you. Now they moved us back up almost to where we had come from, up in that Kirkland Belgium area. They moved him back there and put him in charge of that church. Um, so now I'm a senior, and that's gonna put me in a totally different high school, um, even though it's it's close to that area, but it was gonna be high school number three.

SPEAKER_07: 31:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 31:29

And I went to that school for one day and was like, nope, not doing this again. You know, I'm a senior. I'm like, nah, I'm good, man. I'll get my GED or something. I'm not doing this. And then I I uh decided to fake my address and go back to the school that I'd gone to my sophomore year for. And uh where all your old friends are, yeah, where all my old friends were, and um I uh I was mad that they wouldn't give me an off-campus pass because I was a senior because I started you know into the school year, and so uh I wouldn't park in the freshman parking either, and I started parking in the vice principal's parking spot. Oh Jesus. I'm an idiot, right? I'm gonna do what I want. Yeah, and so I remember one day I was in horticulture class and the the security guard's name there was Rob, right? And he would always be like, Nolan? You know, like he was chasing me around, and like you'd be getting caught for stuff. So like he knew me pretty well. Yeah, and uh I get called out of horticulture, they said my headlights were on, right? And I go walk out, and nope, he's sitting on the hood of my car, like here parked in the vice principal's parking spot, right? So we go into the office and they call my parents, and then they find out that I'd faked my address and that I don't I don't even really live in the area, right? So now I get kicked out of that school, and uh I was like your parents know you did that? No, my parents didn't know that. Really?

SPEAKER_09: 32:44

They thought you were going to the other school still?

SPEAKER_05: 32:45

Yeah, so I drove myself. You were crafty, bro. I had my own car. Wow. I was super manipulative, man. If I wanted something, I was gonna get it. You're gonna get it. So I did that, and then uh yeah, and so then I was like, I'm done with this whole high school thing. I found out I could do high school completion through a community college. It only took me like one quarter in credits. Yeah, I stayed in high school, I had to do the whole year in summer school. I'm like, nah. So I did that, got college credit um at Bellevue uh community college, and I grabbed I graduated from high school through the community college and kept going to school there.

SPEAKER_06: 33:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 33:17

Um, and then you know, I at that time I was doing I was doing okay. Um, still drinking, still using drugs, but it was like it wasn't anything crazy at that at that moment. And then I I I met a girl. Oh I met a girl. This is one of many. Yeah, where that starts out that way and it just always ends great. And um, I meet I meet this girl. I'm about 19 now. I'm graduated from high school, and I had uh I had a decent job, man. I think I was working at like Eddie Bowers College or something. Uh no, no, I'd moved out on my own. Then as soon as I could get out of their house and and I got it, I got a job, man. I was I was out on my own, man. I got my own place, got my own apartment. And so um how old was the girl? Uh the girl that I met was the same age, man. She was like 19, 20 years old. And um I I decided, you know, my lease was about up on my apartment. I needed a new place to live, and her and I hung out one night. We go back to her apartment, really nice apartment in a really nice part of town. And then uh I just kind of moved in, man. And uh we partied a lot when I moved in. She was a big partier, she had a roommate who lived there who was a big partier, and then uh I remember one time she left to go to a frat party over at a college in eastern Washington, Washington State University. And um, I was like, all right, cool. So I go out partying on my own, and I I met a buddy of mine. I throughout from 15 on, I had a fake ID. So I was going to bars and I was I I was grown up from the from that time, or at least I thought I was. So I had a fake ID. I was 19, I go to a bar, it was Cinco de Mayo, and my I ran into my buddy Lane, and he's like, What are you what are you up to? I'm like, I don't know. I moved in with this chick, she's got an apartment. Why don't we go back there and throw a party? And yeah, I guess I live there, and we're digging through all of her stuff, man. And I open up the side drawer, and she has a bag of meth. Like, I'm talking, it was pretty big. Yeah, and I was like, Oh man, I didn't even know she did meth, right? She wasn't all smoked out and she went to work and slept and stuff. I didn't think that she was a meth. It was a lot of meth. And I was like, wow, man. So we we blew through all that. Oh Jesus. And then that was that was what started that little run with her, man. It was uh six months of meth. Started smoking meth with her, and man, I I I lost a ton of weight, and it was really, really bad. And it finally got to the point where my best friend showed up to that.

SPEAKER_01: 35:32

Was that the first time in your life that you got a real binge on meth? Yep, yeah, yeah. It steals everything from you quick. Before that, you're just dabbling.

SPEAKER_05: 35:41

In the 90s, man, it was like crank, and it was that yellow stuff that you would get that would give you a headache, and it's like it would give you the first one, was it the only one that was good, and after that you're just like, man, this hurts. And then so this was finally like let me ask you this.

SPEAKER_11: 35:54

All this time you're doing cocaine never really was an issue.

SPEAKER_05: 35:57

Like I I I it was an issue, it caused problems, but it never like I I would do it for like the weekend, you know, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and then back to work, and then go back after it. I never really cocaine was like that with me too.

SPEAKER_11: 36:09

I could do it and leave it, take it or leave it, you know what I mean? Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_05: 36:12

So I would, I would, I was doing a lot. When I smoked crack in that period of time, you know, go to that point, that got really bad, but it was like a month, you know. But at that point, like when things got bad, I'd be like, all right, I can't, this is this is too bad. I gotta I gotta lay off this for a minute. And I would drink or or smoke weed or whatever, but I I would be able to put it down. I got to six months with her, man, and it was bad. We were fighting all the time, you know, all the drama that comes with it. When my best friend shows up to the house, man, he knocks on the door and he looks at me and he's like, You look like and fill in the blank, right? And I I didn't really. Yeah, but you don't think so. You're looking at yourself, and I'm wearing like a tank top, right? And all the stuff. I probably weigh like a buck twenty soaking wet. I'm six feet tall, right? So I was smoked, and I remember looking in the mirror after he said that, and I'm like, Oh my goodness, man, I look horrible. Yeah, so I realized I gotta stop, and I was still at a point in my life where I could, and so I broke up with this girl, man. I was done. And uh I went I went and called a buddy of mine who worked for Verizon, and I got a good job at Verizon in their call center, man, and uh went through their training and just and started working and going back to school and was like, all right, I'm I'm done with this whole meth thing. I just put it down.

SPEAKER_01: 37:20

Wow, dude, that is very far and few between people who get wrapped up in that meth double dude that they can hey it sucks a man. Yeah. Oh, just just wait.

SPEAKER_09: 37:35

Hold my meth pipe up. Oh god. Hold my lighter flu to my lighter pipe.

SPEAKER_05: 37:42

Let me tell you how I lit this whole thing on fire. We're only 19, man. It gets way worse. So uh, you know, that that I just walked away from it. And again, I never had a period of longer than a couple days where I didn't drink or smoke pot or do something. Drinking was pretty steady, but this is that meth bins meant it was bad. And I just walked away from it, got a job, and and got back on track, right? So now I'm working at Verizon and I meet another girl. And uh this girl wanted to hang out and date me, and I ignored her like tough. She even asked me for a cigarette outside, and I was like, nah, I don't have one. You know, like it was kind of like that. I'm like, nah, I'm good. And then um all of a sudden, you know, I went to a party and I had her number and she'd wanted to hang out, and I called her up, and so we hang out, and you know, all that kind of stuff. Now we're hanging out kind of on a regular basis. Our first date was a disaster. We got into a huge fight, man. Like, I'm talking like just screaming at each other. We barely even know each other, and we're this is just overpicking a movie, right? And we're just we're we're we are not compatible, right? It's not it's not good from the jump. I even got out of her car when that happened, called my buddy, I'm like, come get me, man. This chick's crazy. I'm talking. Well, I shouldn't have kept calling her, but I did, right? And so her and I were like kind of hanging out, kind of hanging out, kind of hanging out, and then we moved in together because she needed a place to live, and I was gonna get another apartment because me and that girl had broken up, right? So I jumped right into this relationship pretty quick, and it was a horribly toxical, toxical, toxic really that's a new word, toxic relationship from the jump. And um I uh it wasn't going well, man. We were fighting all the time, and I was still going out to clubs and bars with my fake ID because I really didn't care. I was just like, whatever. I didn't really care. We were always fighting. She's like, You're cheating. I'm like, eh, I I didn't care, right? Yeah about that relationship. And I'm like, you're cheating. She's like, I'm cheating. It was like that kind of stuff all the time, right? And then um, I got offered a job with Verizon to move to Salt Lake City because they were opening a new call center. I was 21, 20, 21 years old. Yeah, they offered me like to stay in a hotel for three months, pay for everything, give me a company credit card, a car, wow, uh, pay me hourly, even though we'd be working a bunch of overtime, like training all these new people. Yeah, and I'm like, let's go. Like, I need to get away from this game. Fresh start, get away from this girl, and I gotta, I gotta go. So our lease was up, and we didn't really have any joint bills. So I just broke up with her, right? And said, All right, I'm going, I'm going to Utah. Later. I'm out. And I got down there, man, and and um first day, which we got there on a Friday, and then Monday we're training like 500 people on the job that I had been doing up in Seattle. I don't even know why they offered me the job. I had like missed a week uh there, and like they had me on final warning, but for some reason they offered me the job. And then now all of a sudden I'm I've got a company credit card and like a rental car and a hotel, and I can drop my dry cleaning off, and then it just shows back up on my room, and I'm like, this is a good gig, man. Yeah, I could do this for for a long time. But uh that that that Monday, man, um I had like 27 missed calls at the end of the day on my cell phone because I worked for a cell phone company, you know, we had those old school flip phones at that time. It was like the year 2000, 2001. Yeah, and uh, I was like, man, why is this chick blowing me up? And uh my buddy who's there, my friend Ron, he's like, She's pregnant. I'm like, don't joke like that. Yeah, so we get I get back to the hotel and I call her back, and yep, she was pregnant. Yep, and so I'm just like, oh man, you know, what did I do? I did not respond well. I didn't be like, oh, it's so great. I was I was a jerk. And um and so she was pregnant, man, and I'm down there uh working for Verizon. Uh they ended up offering me a job to transfer down there. They offered me like 10 grand to move uh in relocation, and I now I'm 21. The Olympics are going on down in there. I'm like, all right, man, whatever.

SPEAKER_02: 41:33

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 41:34

And my plan was to to just stay broken up from her. Uh when she had our it ended up being our daughter, I was gonna go up and be there for it and then just live in Utah and then figure out how the whole joint come up and pick her up or have her come down. That was kind of the plan. I didn't like that plan, right? Because I was like, man, that sucks.

SPEAKER_10: 41:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 41:52

But that was the plan, as I was like, me and this chick can't be together.

SPEAKER_01: 41:55

But you know, I you wanted to be in the kids' live then.

SPEAKER_05: 41:58

Oh absolutely, one thousand percent. And so I was like, all right, I saved up all my vacation time and um and a month's worth, right? And went back up to Seattle uh when my daughter was born, and um and something about seeing your kid, like your first kid, like I don't know, man. I'd never experienced before, but like the love and like the stuff that overtakes you when you like look at your child, it's like it's it's something else, man. And so I made a decision right there. I'm like, I don't care how much me and her mom fight, I don't care about any of that stuff. I want to be in her life, and that's it, man. I'm I I don't care. Yeah, I will take whatever beating it it takes to be able to you know be in her life. And I wish I would have remembered that the further along that I got, but at that moment that's what I said. Yeah, so I I asked her if she wanted to come back with me to Utah because I'd accepted this job, so she came back with me to Utah. She moved down there with me. She hated it, told me about it every single day. Um and things weren't going well with her daughter, she was having problems, breastfeeding, and so like she wasn't eating and doctors, and we were going to the hospital, and there was just stuff, and she had she had no family around, I had no family down there. So we finally said, you know what? Let's just go back to Seattle. At least your your mom can help, and your dad, and and all this kind of stuff. And my parents are up there, all our family's up there. We were just kind of on a desert island, we're both 21 years old, first kid, right? She's going through it with whatever you deal with with having a baby, and then we're still toxic and fighting all the time.

SPEAKER_11: 43:28

How long were you in Salt Lake for?

SPEAKER_05: 43:30

Uh about a year. Yeah. And so then um I I asked if I could transfer back up, and they said uh that I was too valuable to the organization in Salt Lake City. I said, Well then I'm gonna quit because I gotta I gotta go back where my kid is. Yeah and uh I left and got a got a new job at um it's it it was uh called at the time Trendwest Resorts, which is like a timeshare company. I got a job in uh consumer finance with them uh before I before I left Verizon. And so she I I took her up first. We moved all the stuff back up, moved around with her parents, and then I followed about a month later with my car and and you know all the stuff that I had to grab.

SPEAKER_11: 44:05

So when you were in Seattle, did you do any drugs?

SPEAKER_05: 44:08

Um when I when I got back to Seattle. Uh Salt Lake. I drank. Um there was one night where me and a bunch of people that we worked with did a ton of cocaine and and we just partied, and like all of us that work there were like ended up crashing at my house. It was this wild night. I won't tell too many of the details. It was crazy. You go back into work and you're like, I can't even look at any of you people. Why did we do that and then we work together? It's like, oh my gosh, the things we would talk about, you know, when you're just like blah, blah, blah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So um, yeah, it's uh that's crazy. It it was it was crazy. But for the most part, I partied, man. I would go out to uh like the Olympics were going on, so we were going out to bars and stuff all the time, man. And I was just meeting a bunch of different girls down there and just doing just kind of whatever. And I was 21 years old, man. Living lives just partying and uh, you know, just just doing stupid stuff, but mostly it was just alcohol at that time. And then, you know, the the one the one uh work cocaine night that we're all like, man, now we gotta go to work today. Who's calling in sick and who's not, right? It's stupid.

SPEAKER_09: 45:13

But that's funny. Man, it was uh it was bad.

SPEAKER_05: 45:16

So no, it was just mostly drinking. And then we end up back up in uh in Seattle and we move in with my uh ex's uh parents. So now there I am, 2022 at this time, right? My daughter is about three months old. And uh my daughter was born uh in 2001. So now she's uh she was born late 2001, so it's early 2022, it's like February, March, something like that. So she's three, four months old. And then uh I find out that uh my girlfriend at the time, she wasn't my wife, she was my girlfriend, is pregnant with her second kid. Oh wow, and so my two oldest children are 11 months and 22 days apart, right? It was like bam bam. I didn't figure out what caused it the first time. And uh that trip from uh getting her from Utah to Seattle with the U-Haul, we stopped at a uh hotel in Boise. I know where it happened, yeah. And uh that's where she got pregnant with my oldest son. Oh, geez. So now there we are, unmarried, living at her parents' house, uh, with a four-month-old daughter, and she's pregnant with my son. Yeah, and so I'm like, man, I gotta do the right thing here. Oh no. And uh I proposed and popped the question shotgun wedding, man. By June, we were married. So like I got back to Seattle in March of 2022, found out she was pregnant and all that. Yeah, by June, because she's like, I don't want to be showing too much, and I don't want my grandma to know. I'm like, your grandma had eight kids, she's gonna know that you're pregnant. Yeah. So there I am, man.

SPEAKER_11: 46:42

I'm I uh you ever questioned yourself before you went ahead with it?

SPEAKER_05: 46:44

Like, oh yeah, every every single second of every single day. Yeah, I um I was planning on just kind of doing the whole proposed thing just to buy myself some time and go, all right, we're gonna get married at some point, maybe, but at least to try and you know, like uh do the right thing, quote unquote. Yeah, but uh that just kind of sped everything up. We're living at her parents' house, man. I'm I'm I'm like just in engulfed in their family, and it's just like, man, I feel like this is what I'm supposed to do. I got along with her parents and all that kind of stuff. At least at that time, you know, we got along pretty well. So it was like, all right, man, let's let's do this thing. And I knew it was wrong, man. We fought still all the time, and it just it wasn't getting any better. There was nothing that was gonna change, just the toxicity of that relationship. But you just keep making more decisions to pile onto it, and here we go, right? So now all of a sudden, man, I go from I go from being a you know a struggling teenager, struggling with identity and all of the stuff that happened from childhood trauma and molestation and moving and all that stuff. I hadn't figured any of that stuff out. I never even told anybody about it. I buried that stuff so deep that I yeah, I just wanted to forget it. And now I'm a 22-year-old father of two and I'm married, right? It's just like, what happened? So now all I'm thinking is I gotta make money, right? I gotta make money any way that I can. I don't have a college degree, but I was like, I'm just gonna just start hustling, man, and just figure out what happens. So I'm working at a timeshare company, I'm in consumer finance, I was a consumer finance manager, I made okay money. But uh all of a sudden they got bought by a bigger company. They said nothing was gonna change, and then everything changed because that's how it works. Yeah, and uh I got offered to either move to Las Vegas and actually get promoted from manager to director, or uh take a layoff and just call it good. And I'm like, I'm not moving my uh now. I've got a two-year-old and a three-year-old to Vegas. Yeah, and I was like, that doesn't seem like a good thing. I'll take your layoff money, take my unemployment, and just figure out what I'm doing. At the time, my uh now wife worked, so we're like, all right, we can figure it out. Yeah, but in that process, I ran into a guy who uh ran um their most profitable sales department, and he said, What are you doing? You know, crunching numbers and doing spreadsheets, man. You're a sales guy. And I was like, okay, you know, but I'm like, you guys are commission only, and I've got a family, and it's like I that's not a risk that I would normally be willing to take, but right now I don't have a job, so I'm just like, whatever, let's let's take a stab at it. So that's what I did, man. I trained to be a salesperson while I was still doing my other job before I, you know, before the layoff ended that at the end of 2023, because they they work nights in the sales department, so I would go there five to nine and just sit with people and train because I'm like, I need to hit the ground running. And uh worked there that long?

SPEAKER_11: 49:24

Huh? You worked there that long, you said?

SPEAKER_05: 49:26

What what do you mean?

SPEAKER_11: 49:26

You said 2023?

SPEAKER_01: 49:28

No, he was 23.

SPEAKER_05: 49:29

Oh sorry. I was 23 in and I might have said 2023, 2003. Oh yeah, man, yeah, that's that's when you know you're getting old. I don't know. I know it ends in a three. Yeah, so now we're in 2000, the end of 2003. Yeah, about another 10, 13 years before you're old, brother. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what it is about that 50 number says I hit it, man. It was like everything stopped working. I joke with people, it's all relative, right? So like I help at our church uh with youth, right, and help lead a high school small group afterwards. Uh and you go in there to that that sanctuary man, and they're just all jacked up on mountain doing jolly ranchers. And I'm like, oh my goodness, y'all are crazy. I love it though. I love being able to do it. But then I feel really old because when I'm like, shh, and they look at me like, who are you? Like, what I wasn't talking, and it's like I've been watching you talk for the last five minutes. I even gave you a break. But they look at you like, what are you telling, old man? Like, shut up, Uncle. But then I go to my my men's Bible study on Saturday mornings this morning, and I'm like, man, I feel young, right? These dudes are like, you know, a lot older than that. And so I'm like, it's all relative. Like, so yeah, on Saturdays I feel uh really young, and on Wednesdays I feel ancient.

SPEAKER_11: 50:34

So uh it's weird here because there's like there's like these dudes that are like 60 and then these dudes that are like 40. Yep. It's hard to have find somebody that's like in their 50s. Yep. So I'm either the too old guy or the young guy, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 50:48

And it's awkward. I think it's always better to be the young guy, I think. Yeah, you know, it just makes you feel better about yourself.

SPEAKER_03: 50:55

I love you.

SPEAKER_05: 50:56

Your perspective's great. Yeah. So find the good in everything. So there I am, a young whippersnapper, uh, with with two kids, man. I've got a like a one-year-old and a newborn, right? So uh that that's what happened. But then by by 23, now my son's older, my daughter's older. They offer me the move to Vegas. I say no, I take the sales job, and I was really good at it, man. I killed it. And I uh I was their rookie of the year, I made President's Club.

SPEAKER_01: 51:22

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_05: 51:22

Uh cracked six figures for the first time in my life. Wow, dude. At 23? At 24 now, because I turned 24 at the beginning of 2004.

SPEAKER_11: 51:30

What were you selling? Timeshare?

SPEAKER_05: 51:31

Timeshare. Over the phone, man. Wow. I'd call people up who already owned it and I'd sell them more, man, and I just I just killed it. Wow. And uh so you know that came with a lot of money. Uh I bought my first house at the end of 2004 when I was 24 years old.

SPEAKER_09: 51:45

Wow, bro.

SPEAKER_05: 51:46

And um, then I just kept getting promoted. I got promoted in uh 2005, the very beginning of 05 to assistant sales manager, 06 to sales manager. By 2007, I was their sales director, so I was the one in charge of the entire department. It was the most profitable department for now. Wyndham was the name of the company. Yeah, and uh we did about five million dollars a month in sales, 51% profitability, so we were putting about two and a half million dollars to the bottom line, and they loved us, right? And I and our department was humming and doing really good, and I was uh making more money than I thought I would ever make in my life, and we ended up buying another house and cars and jet skis and all the things that you buy with that, right? And I was I would we'd go party, it was kind of part of the lifestyle party or I'd go golf and get drunk, and I'd go to these uh trips to Mexico and you know, president's club trips where you'd play these Jack Nicholas designed golf courses and like all that you can eat and drink, and like it's all on the company, and that's the kind of stuff that I was I was doing. So on the outside, everybody had been like, dang, man, you're really doing it, buddy. Yeah, deep down on the inside. I was an absolute disaster, right? I was drinking on a regular basis. Wow, uh Vicodin became a pretty steady habit at that point. Um, I said it was for my back, but my back really didn't hurt. Uh if you want to ask me how a back really feels when it hurts, ask me about like how I feel now, right? Back then it was like, dude, your back doesn't hurt. But I got I got I got hooked on painkillers and it's prescribed through through a legitimate reason or no, like I I went I went because my back was a little tweaked and then got got a taste of like Vicodin mixed with alcohol, and I'm like, I don't even like alcohol anymore, I only like it because it makes my Vicodin stronger, right? And so I was like, I really like opiates, and that was the beginning of me going, man, I like opiates way too much. So, but at that time I had plenty of money, man, and I could kind of do whatever. So if I wanted to, you know, do a bunch of opiates or drink, I never ran out of money, so it was like whatever.

SPEAKER_01: 53:41

How'd your how's your relationship with your wife at this point now that you're making all this money?

SPEAKER_05: 53:47

Oh, she liked it, like the money part of it, but we still fought all the time. All the time, it was super toxic. We ended up having our third child, my youngest son, Bryce, he was born in 2006, late 2006. And um I'll I'll go back. When I first got promoted, started making a ton of money, I found out my wife was cheating. So let's go back to that. Yeah, um, and it wasn't just like, oh, oops, I got drunk and whatever, which I don't know if that's good or better, but compared to the fact that she had started like a full-on relationship with somebody, was texting and calling all the time. I had to like, I was pulling cell phone records and trying to like see all these calls, and I'm like, You're calling this dude 300 times, and you know you're not talking. So that was like uh that was something that happened in our relationship where we had already fought, but now like that happened. I ended up catching her coming home at like she was coming home from the bars and the clubs at four o'clock in the morning. And I I don't like to talk about her too much because that's her stuff, but like I'm staying at home with the kids on the weekends, and you know, she's doing that whole deal, and so like I'm trying to stay up to say if you need a ride home, you shouldn't be driving drunk. Yeah, yeah. And so one night she came home and her cell phone, she left it on the counter, her phone rang, and I answered it. The person hung up. I'm like, Oh, that's a good sign. Yeah, and then called back, and it was a dude's voicemail, and uh then I you know figured it all out. She told me it was her gay friend from work, yeah. And then I I she forgot that I used to work at Verizon. She worked at Verizon. I called somebody, I'm like, Hey, is this guy gay? And she's like, No. And by the way, I've been meaning to call you, I didn't have your number, he's been at your wife's desk all the time. I'm like, oh my gosh. So I figure this out. And I was I was done with her at that time, done with the relationship. We separated. I had gotten a lawyer, I was done. Wow. And then right at about the sixth month of separation, the kids were living with me at that time. So I'm I backtracked uh to 2004, and so things are going great at work. But in answer to your question, she cheated. Now I'm staying at the kids are living with me. My mom's coming over to kind of nanny them during the week. She picked them up maybe once throughout that period of time for you know, like a week or something. Um, her parents would still see them and and stuff because they were really good with our kids. They st they still are, they've been incredible to my kids. Her parents have been phenomenal. But um, so that's that's where it was, man. And then at the end of six months, she like came over one night, we went out, got some dinner, we drank, you know, did adult things, and all of a sudden it's like, okay, well, maybe maybe I love you. I love you, maybe this is gonna be a good thing.

SPEAKER_01: 56:05

Maybe we can make this work.

SPEAKER_05: 56:06

So I was right on the brink of calling it and divorcing her, and the lawyer's like, do it now. You're making all this money, we can go off last year's pay, and you've got you've got proof that the kids have been in your, you know, around around you, so you're gonna get cut off. It's all gonna be in your favor, all that stuff. Yeah, and so that was the time to pull the trigger. The lawyer's like, Before the end of this year, you gotta do it. Yeah, and I kept kind of putting it off, man, because I just divorced, and I was like, Man, I don't know, I'm not supposed to do that. And even though I wasn't an active Christian at the time, I just felt like it was the wrong thing to do. I was like, I gotta at least try to make this thing work.

SPEAKER_01: 56:38

Up up until this point, you're you're 24. Yeah, I'm 24. You when you were 14 and you moved out and got your own there, you stopped going to church. Yeah, I wasn't going to church.

SPEAKER_05: 56:49

You're not going to there's so I went to a couple youth group things because there was pretty girls there. Of course. Yeah, that was it.

SPEAKER_01: 56:55

As a as far as your faith with God and the relationship.

SPEAKER_05: 56:59

Zero relationship with God, right? I was a disaster on the inside, and it would always come up in my mind when I was loaded or whatever, like, man, what have I turned into? But I wasn't going to church, I wasn't doing anything like that. I was I was all about self success, advancing in my career, making money, taking care of my family and my kids, and giving them a better life than I had, and giving them stability that I didn't have. That was my focus. And so she cheats and then she comes back, and then we get back together, and she says everything's gonna be different. And within two weeks, man, we were fighting again, but now she lives back with me, and then you know we just kind of kept uh trudging forward, and then after that whole like her moving back in, that was when we bought our first house at the end of 04. And then I get promoted and promoted again. Now we buy a bigger house and a nicer neighborhood, man. And we're living like a TPC golf course community brand new home that we had built, you know, from the ground up. We got to pick all the stuff in it. Wow. And um, I've got uh Living the Dream. Yeah, I've got a Cadillac CTS uh in my driveway with a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee, a jet ski in my um jet ski in my garage, and we were going jet skiing at the lake with my buddy Adam and his wife every single now his wife, but his girlfriend at the time. We were always just going jet skiing, we were watching Seahawks games, whatever. You know, I know you're a huge Seahawks fan, so Seahawks!

SPEAKER_01: 58:17

So uh had to ring up the Seahawks game, especially after that game. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_05: 58:22

You guys are a disaster. I had that before, but it's okay. I've been a Seahawks fan for a long time. We've been a disaster at one time.

SPEAKER_11: 58:28

So I had to be a Cardinals fan, brother, it's a given. Every season tickets. Yeah, I get it, man. You get one lucky one with very Fitzgerald outside of that. We know we suck. Yeah, you're like, whatever. But we're diehard, we don't care.

SPEAKER_05: 58:40

Yeah, man. I uh I had season tickets, you know, to them. So it was like football and partying and jet skis and work and spending money and doing stupid stuff. But the outside you had the life. Yeah, everybody, you know, the the picture that was painted, and if anybody asked me, I was doing great, man. Everything's fine, everything's great, marriage is great, life's great.

SPEAKER_01: 58:55

How is your because doing kind of what we're doing now in recovery and stuff and working with the guys that we're working with, I noticed two things uh with married men. Either you are really, really good at having a wife and you struggle with parenting, or you struggle with the married life, but you're a great father. What what did yours look like?

SPEAKER_05: 59:22

I mean, uh I have a hard time saying that I was a great father because I drank and I popped pills and I could have been a better father to my children. I think anybody could say that, but I coached all their sports, I was at everything, I did all that stuff. So I coached youth football for 10 years, I coached my sons growing up, um, I coached my daughters' soccer teams, I coached T-ball. I was I was at there was a time through when my kids were before we ended up moving to Florida, which I'll tell that tell that story later. But before then, I didn't even I think I only missed one game of of any of their stuff. So I was at every game, at every function, at everything. Um I I put them as the number one. Priority in my life. So even though work was crazy and I was running this entire department, like I was always in the back of my mind going, I don't like working nights, I want to be around my kids, I want to go to sports. And I started making some switches uh at a later point to where I could have nights free and start to do that kind of stuff. So even though I was uh a disaster on the inside, I still would show up for all my kids' stuff, you know what I mean? And uh really good, buddy. And uh and so when they were little, I was around and I was in I was I was a part of all their their sports, but I still, you know, the the chaos of having two parents that she drank, right? We we both popped pills. If I was popping Vicanins or whatever, or Adderalls, like whatever I was doing, she was doing. Yeah, so it was you know what goes along with that, man. You're fighting and you're arguing and you're staying up late. Where'd you put them? Right, yeah. Jesus, you took them all. No, I didn't. I don't know if I did, but maybe I didn't. So you wouldn't. All the drama, you know, and then we were always just chasing the next party, going out to casinos, and you know, uh, money wasn't an issue for most of the time. So we'd go do whatever, go on vacation, spend money, and it wasn't it wasn't a thing. So, like, but at that time, man, you would think I'm living the dream. Brand new house, TBC golf course community. I'm a director of sales for the most profitable department for one of the largest timeshare companies in the world, right? I'm probably on my way to become a vice president with them and all that kind of stuff. And uh, I remember the night, man. Um me and my wife were fighting like normal, but I got stoned, right? And I I I'm drinking, I'm sitting in the garage, and the garage doors open, and I'm looking at the cars, and I'm looking at my jet skis, and I'm just like I'm freaking miserable, man. Like, whatever I thought money was gonna do to fill this void that I have, that I'm so just sad all the time and depressed and anxious, and all the things that I hid from people, right? Because I'm supposed to be this leader in this company, but I was self-conscious, uh, just just like such a disaster on the inside, right? I was anxious, depressed, and would go through all these ups and downs of emotions. But I remember sitting there looking at all this stuff, going, none of this stuff even matters. This is so stupid. I'm a horrible parent. My kids don't know Jesus. I remember thinking that way. Wow, really? I was like, Yeah, my parents took me to church and I was raised in it, and my kids don't even know anything about it. Wow. I'm like, I am the worst parent in the history of parents. So that night I was like, I'm I'm I'm done. I'm gonna I'm gonna find a church. And so I'm 27, 28, somewhere in that neighborhood, man, and um 27 probably. And so I start watching local pastors on TV. And in Seattle, there aren't really too many big churches. I mean, in Arizona down here, you can find a mega church on every corner and another church over there. And I remember when I first moved here, I went to go to a CR um at uh North Phoenix Baptist or something like that. And right before that's church for the nations, I'm like, there's literally two mega churches like two blocks from each other. Like, this is crazy. It's not like that up there, but I found this church called Champion Center. I love the pastor, Pastor Kevin Gerald.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:04

I was watching the message on the pursuit of the pursuit of happiness, and I'm like we got his podcast, our our pastors we listen to we're we're a part of them. Okay, yeah, great podcast, man. Leadership. Yeah, man, he's all about healthy leadership, all about leadership and stuff.

SPEAKER_05: 1:03:19

So I saw him preach, and I'm like, all right, man, I'm gonna go to this church. And I told my wife, I was like, I want to go to church, and she's like, All right, whatever, I guess we'll go. I mean, take the kids, man. We get to this church. I was three Vicadons deep when I showed up on uh their latest service on Sunday. I drank the night before, but I was just like, man, I I I don't know, I can't I can't do this anymore. We show up and they were great, and our kids love the kids' service. I sat way up in the rafters, as far up as you can see. Yeah, man, way up there. And we listened to the message and nobody really bothered us, which was like, cool, man. Like people said hi and stuff. It was like they just left me alone. There's a little CD in my bag, and I just kind of listened to it, and we just started going, man. We just started going and we were like, all right. Um, I wouldn't say that I committed my life to Christ or turned my life over to Christ, but I was curious. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, man, I saw an advertisement, right? So here we are. Now I'm going to church, still drinking, still popping pills, um, and still working in timeshare as a director of sales, but we're going on a regular basis. And uh, we start serving in kids, and uh, you know, so now we're serving in kids, and then I see an advertisement for their leadership college, uh, Wisdom for Life Leadership College is what it was called then. Then it got changed to Champion Center College. I'm like, you know what, I want to know more about the Bible. So I enrolled in their in their college. Wow. Uh to get a degree in ministry leadership and intern in the church. So now I'm working full time and uh now I'm going to school, I guess. And so every Monday I would drive about 45 minutes from where I worked, go to classes. Uh and I actually started digging it and um did really well at it, got good grades.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:52

Learning.

SPEAKER_05: 1:04:53

And then by the second year, I was interning at the church, man. Wow. Um, and I was interning in youth, and I was kind of youth pastoring at one of their new campuses, and uh like it put in positions that I should not have been in because I'm still drinking. Yeah, yeah, and I'm not drinking as much. So in my mind, I'm like, well, I'm doing better. You know, I'm not smoking cigarettes anymore, right? I'm just chewing every once in a while. Uh I only drink on Friday and Saturday nights, every once in a while during the week, but I'm I'm like, you know, I'm not doing cocaine or shit.

SPEAKER_11: 1:05:23

Yeah, at least I'm not as bad as somebody else. Let me ask you this. When you were sitting in that garage that night and it all just kind of dawned on you, yeah. What do you think was really going on in your mind?

SPEAKER_05: 1:05:32

Well, I I I think that it was it was mostly the realization that two things that one money didn't make me happy, and I thought like my parents traveled us all around. We were poor growing up, yeah, you know, living in vans sometimes and moving all around. I'm like, if I just get a stable place for my kids and make a lot of money, I'll be happy. I'll be happy and they'll have a great life. And that was where my mind was. Yeah. And then when that wasn't really true, and it just hit me like I'm miserable. I I don't my marriage is is is falling apart. Um, you know, like I really actually don't even like my job. I'm good at it, and so it's like it pays really good, but I it's not like I I don't feel like I'm doing any good for anyone, selling people timeshare or whatever, getting up in front of people, you know, like doing the whole sales shtick that you gotta do. I just thought it was so fake and just stupid, and but I was good at it, so I just I just rolled with it, you know.

SPEAKER_11: 1:06:21

It's like it made me money, and that's a cool realization to have though, just to be sitting there and seeing all that and realize it.

SPEAKER_05: 1:06:26

Yeah, and now looking back, right? Yeah, but I know that's the Holy Spirit, you know, it's God uh keeping you just just working on you throughout all your stuff, man.

SPEAKER_11: 1:06:36

When you're way out there, like it's well, because you said even when you were getting high and stuff, that you'd have these real realizations. I'd have these thoughts, like man, I know I'm not doing the right thing.

SPEAKER_05: 1:06:44

And I I always kind of knew in the back of my mind I wasn't doing the right thing. Maybe that goes back to being raised. Maybe I was saved at five when I was baptized and stuff got me off track. Maybe I wasn't. I don't I don't know the answer to that question, but I know that God was always on the forefront of my mind. Jesus was always on the back of my mind, and then going, man, my kids, like if I don't raise them in that, then you know they How old were your kids at the time? My kids were five, four, and a newborn. Right. So I got two that are about ready to get in kindergarten, and I'm like, man, they haven't been to church one time, they don't even know who Jesus is. So I'm like, I need to go to church. So we start going, like I said, and the kids love it, and they start getting, you know, lessons in church and all that. Yeah, uh, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:23

So what if you if there's somebody out there that's listening to this or watching this, and they they are in that mindset where they they're just working and working and working and trying to give this life to their family that hoping that they'll that they will succeed and and be able to have an easy life. What what would your uh advice or recommendation be for them so that they don't have to come to a moment like that where it's like sitting in a garage and dude, none of this stuff's even worth it?

SPEAKER_05: 1:07:53

True success isn't found in in your job, isn't found in what you do, isn't found in the the amount of money you make. True success is found in the surrender of your life to Jesus Christ. Amen. Um the gospel of Jesus Christ is all that matters. And me telling people about what Jesus has done in my life is all that matters. What I do for work doesn't matter. I could care less now what I what I do for work, but that's never going to satisfy. Like it's it it will never satisfy. You can fill it up with people have all sorts of idols, right? You know, uh and and I believe that addiction is idolatry, it's sin. It's putting that on the throne of my heart over God, over everything. I would I would choose it over everything. Yeah, right? We'll lay everything down at the feet of the enemy. Uh we'll give them our kids. I've never heard that before, bro. We'll give them our kids, we'll give them our dignity, our self-respect, our jobs, our houses, our cars. We'll give the devil everything. But then you come to church and people are like, I really gotta raise my hands.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:52

And it's like these seats, you're uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_05: 1:08:54

If you gave half the effort to your relationship with Christ that you did to your relationship with the world, you would be in pretty good shape, man. We never took a day off. I never forgot to stop at the liquor store. I never forgot to get heroin when I needed it. We're gonna get to the heroin part here pretty quick, right? Spoiler alert. But um, you know, I never forgot to do drugs. We tell people we tell people all the time, go after Jesus as hard as you went after the I said to people just the other week when I was at recovery church, I'm like, what if the distance between you and that chair and this altar was the distance between you and your breakthrough? Come on, or between you and your deliverance, or between you and and your healing, or whatever it is. What if it was just you dropping to your knees? What if it's just that act of surrender? Um, you know, that just just laying it all out at the feet of Jesus? What if we laid everything at the feet of Jesus the same way that we did?

SPEAKER_11: 1:09:44

So you were talking just now, and I and the verse that came to my head was uh a wise man leaves an inheritance for his children's children. And we read that and we think monetary. Yeah. And the reality is that inheritance is come on, dad. Relationship with Jesus. That inheritance is salvation. That inheritance is the knowledge of the gospels, the living of the gospel. That's the inheritance of the thing. That's all that matters for our children's children, man. That's all that matters. Not money.

SPEAKER_05: 1:10:10

Money money's good, but what does it matter? Uh ultimately, uh eternity, right, is at stake. So money is temporal, and uh the the only thing I care about now when it comes to my children is making sure that they're in the right relationship with Christ. I don't care about anything else. Amen. Amen. Um, and uh I they're probably getting annoyed with me by now with the Bible verses and stuff that I send up, you know. But it's like I don't I don't I don't care because keep annoying them, but yeah, we'll get we'll get through this because they were going to church for a little while and kind of talk about how it all fell apart. But um, you know, like that's where I realized that I ended up failing my children more than anything because that's the legacy that matters. Yeah, who cares if I leave you a house or some money? Yeah if you don't have a right relationship with Christ, you don't have the fruits of the spirit, you don't have peace, joy, patience, kindness, gentle gentleness, goodness, self-control, and all the things that just I don't know. It's it's uh it's the only thing that matters. It's really good, mate. Yeah, man. Going to church, faking the funk, right? Now I'm uh preaching in their youth and and uh talking about choices, and then I'm going home and making bad choices. And uh I started to feel like a fraud, man. Like I remember it's real, but I uh started smoking cigarettes again, and then I was like, man, I can't smell like cigarettes on Mondays when I go to this class because there's all these pastors from the church around, right? Sometimes Pastor Kevin would come in and like talk to us, and uh Pastor Samuel Duth was the director of the college. He's he's still a friend of mine. He came on my podcast a few months back. He's a pastor of a church in San Diego, but he was the guy I'd walk in, and I'm like, I can't smell like smoke, right? So I remember I'd wear a uh a rubber glove, right? And I'd be smoking, right? Whoa wow, and then we would chewing gum and spraying on cologne man, and you know, it's like rubber gloved it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:11:53

And I I got that idea because I got that idea.

SPEAKER_05: 1:11:57

A guy that I guy that I worked with was like the CFO of this this uh this company where I worked, and his wife was a nurse and she knew that he smoked, but he would hide it at work. He would smoke with a rubber glove on. She's like, if she smells smoke on me when I get home, I'm gonna be dead. And so, like, I'm like, that's a great idea. Like, right? Because it always gets on your fingers. You can't get that smoke on it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:19

Oh yeah, buddy.

SPEAKER_05: 1:12:22

So I'm doing that, man, and I'm you know, I am I'm drinking less and and I'm I'm doing better, I think, right? You know, I'm trying to read my Bible a little bit, uh, nowhere near like I do now, but then I'd pick it up and I'm trying to figure it out. And I'm going to conferences and I'm watching, I'm serving at my church, man, right? You know, I'm doing all this stuff.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:39

So you're trying to do I'm trying to my own strength, right?

SPEAKER_05: 1:12:43

And and I'm but I'm a fraud because I know that I know that I'm not living the right way. It even got to the point where we started to celebrate recovery there that's still going today. It's got hundreds of people to go to it. It's a big one. But we started it back then with this pastor there, Pastor Frankie. He's like, Do you want to help me with it? And I remember having to lie in that thing, like saying that I had found freedom for stuff. And I'm sitting in these newcomer groups, man, and I'm just like talking, and I'm like, oh, dude, this is really bad. And so it just kind of kept piling on. And then there we are, we're at a men's conference. They did this bold men's conference every year, and he had like all these big speakers come out, like Keith Kraft back in the day was like a big one from Texas, man. They do this whole men's thing, there's cars all over the lobby and all this stuff. And uh, I got so drunk the night before this thing. Oh man. And it was like my my ex-wife's birthday. At the time, she was still my wife, and she was like, I can't believe you gotta go to this men's conference, how my birthday, and every year she got mad. I'm like, I'm an intern, I have to go to this thing. I I'm like stationed at this station, and I'm like, your birthday's tonight, and so we go out to the casino, man, we get loaded. I I wake up, I smell like the olive at the bottom of a martini. Yeah, yeah. I zip up a sweatshirt all the way to here. I don't shave, and I'm just like stumbling out, you know. And I ride with these guys because we all carpooled down. I'm just thinking, man, I smell like booze, right? And I get there and I'm sitting there just like, can this thing be over, man? I do what I gotta do uh for the booth that they had me at. I was just playing video games with the kids that came in for the men's conference, right? Because I'm doing youth stuff. And then I'm sitting there and and Pastor Kevin goes, uh he's like, Where's Mike Nolant? And I'm like, Are you freaking kidding me? And he's like, because they're starting to introduce guys from different campuses that people can get to know, and I get called up on stage. Oh man, right? And I'm just I'm just red as a tomato, right? And because I'm hungover and I'm just dehydrated, I'm just in and I'm like, dude, he calls me and a couple other people up there, but when he called my name, I'm like, this hasn't happened in the three years or whatever I've gone to the church. It happens this Saturday, and that was the day, man, that I was like, I can't do this anymore. I'm a fraud. I'm like standing up there, people are coming in, like thinking I'm some great guy, and I'm just a liar and a fake, wow, and all these things. So, not right then, but a little bit later, we left the church, and um that that was kind of the end of that. Not because anything they did, not because anything like that, man. I still follow them on social media and stuff like that. I'm still connected with people from that church, but I just uh we just walked away. We said it was for different reasons. I almost took a job with uh with Wyndham out of the country at that time because 2008 happened, right? Yeah, the crash. Yeah, and so I almost moved to Australia actually, and uh, and so we kind of used that as an out, like how we're gonna move, but we didn't end up moving to Australia. I just ended up taking another job at a life insurance brokerage, and uh, we just kind of dipped and and never went back. And so um I I just felt like a I felt like a fraud. But then after that happened, I went hard into my addiction, man. I started I started drinking more, I started doing prescription pills more. A girl that worked for me at this new life insurance brokerage. So now here I am. I've worked my way up at this new place. I'm the director of sales at this life insurance brokerage in uh Seattle, and I'm running the whole sales flow. There was like a hundred salespeople that reported to me and all these admin and all the stuff, and I ran the whole place, and I'm an alcoholic pill popping. But I we worked at seven in the morning. I'm running sales meetings, still probably drunk, popping as many Vikes as I can throw in. And I meet and one of my top salespeople, uh her her mom got really sick and had cancer, so she had all these pain meds, and so she would sell me all of her extra pain meds, and so I'm buying pain pills from a salesperson that doesn't even work for me. She works for a manager that works for me. And so, like, I it was all bad, man. Yeah, I can't go into too many details on it, but it was it was bad, right? And so, like, I'm I've got doctors giving them to me, she's bringing in me just whatever, and I'm yeah, I'm making sure she's taken care of, man. Yeah, and uh I was my that was when my addiction to Vicodin got like really bad, and then I started Dang, bro. Oxy started coming into it, and you know, just like all the different things that you can get uh involved in then. But I um were you just popping them? Were you crushing them? At that time I was just popping them, man. I wasn't I wasn't doing anything crazy. I hadn't started snorting or start sniffing them yet. That comes later. But at that time I was taking insane amounts of pills, man. Like just insane amounts of pills. I sometimes I wouldn't even know how many I took, man. I'm surprised that I even still have a liver, but especially with the how would you function though? Uh I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. You know, I would I would never fall out of work or anything? I remember one time I had to pick up uh the vice president of sales. He was in town from Chicago, and because they had a Chicago office too. And I picked him up at the hotel when it was right down the street from the office, and I start spinning in the car. I had to pull over and barf, right? Like on the side of the road. Yeah. Picked him up, I'm like, oh, they just switched me blood pressure medication. You know, I make something up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I was like, I can't do the sales meeting today, man. I just shut the door to my office, turned the blinds, and I'm like, you know, people had to realize that I was a disaster. You don't think that they do, but you know, there was one sales meeting where my I had the shakes so bad because I drank the night before where I was trying to hold a cup of water and I couldn't, and I sat it down and was like, stop shaking, you know, my arm shaking so bad in front of a bunch of people, man. And I would get up there and have to say stuff. And and uh it was grace and mercy, grace and mercy, that's it. It gets worse.

SPEAKER_01: 1:18:01

Grace and mercy. It gets worse. Really?

SPEAKER_05: 1:18:03

Oh, yeah, way worse.

SPEAKER_11: 1:18:04

That's about 10 years of just pounding.

SPEAKER_05: 1:18:06

Pounding out alcohol and Vicadin. And really, the alcohol was I would have a couple drinks a night, strong ones to make the Vicadin. I I that's where I got, you know, but I would drink too. Some nights we'd go out and party. So it was consistent, man. And then um, and then uh, you know, there would be periods there, there became a period of time where I realized I had a problem with Vicatin. And I went to a doctor and he gave me suboxin. Okay. And then I started the whole mess of I'm on suboxin, I'm offsuboxin, I'm on pills, I'm on suboxin. And I would, you know, he gave me four strips a day, which I don't even think they do anymore. He gave me insane amounts of that. And uh he was one of the doctors that was prescribing me some of the pills because I was still going to doctors and buying them from this girl. Um, but it got pretty bad at that job. I worked there for three years at this life insurance brokerage after I left Wyndham, and I ended up having to quit because are you still with your ex?

SPEAKER_01: 1:18:52

Uh no. Are you still with at the time? Your wife? At the time. At that time, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_05: 1:18:57

Yeah, the divorce is coming later. We were married for close to 18 years. Really? Um yeah, we we stuck that painful thing out for a long time. Wow. Um, so I'm still married to her, kids are getting older, they're playing sports. Uh, my oldest son's playing football, my daughter's playing soccer, tackle, tackle football. Um, I'm coaching football. Coaching, going to the games, in their life. But I'm still drinking and popping pills, man. And it's it's not, it's uh I'm sure it was obvious to a lot of people again, man. I'd be at like baseball games on the sidelines, man, with a coffee cup all the time, you know. Oh yeah, you make because I like the coffee. It's got my shooters, man. But it's like with the Viking, man, you have a drink, it would it would just give it an extra kick. And so I always wanted to make sure I had a little bit of alcohol in my system. And uh it was it was stupid, but yeah, no, there you are, you know, doing that kind of stuff. And that job, I was missing a bunch of time, man. I was telling them it was my back, and I I'd learned now like file official FMLA paperwork, file short-term disability, say that you've got some sort of problem so that whenever you have an issue, yeah, you can call in and they can't fire you. If you've gotten approved for FMLA and you got 18 weeks of time off, I can miss as much time as I want. You can't fire me.

SPEAKER_06: 1:20:00

Wow.

SPEAKER_05: 1:20:01

So like I had learned that, and uh it, I I used it a lot in even future jobs where I wouldn't get fired. People are like, how'd you never get fired? I'm like, man, as soon as I started messing up, I filed for FMLA and said it was a back problem. I didn't get a doctor to sign off on the paperwork, it was manipulation, just like everything else. And so there I am, man, um, you know, missing a ton of work. And I had the ability in my office to listen to every phone on the floor, and nobody knew that. I could listen to the president's phone, vice president's phone, all this stuff. And I shouldn't, but I could. And so I listened to a conversation uh when the vice president was there with the president of the company talking about me, right? And they were like, I don't think that he's really got something wrong with this back. Like, what are we gonna do with this guy? He's a disaster, he's not showing up to work, all this kind of stuff. Wow, so I'm like, oh wow, that's bad. They're about to fire, or they're gonna they don't know what to do, but they so um I told him uh I basically uh I don't know if I don't I don't want to say blackmailed, but I said I basically offered to quit. Yeah, um said it was still my back if if they'd pay me like a considerable severance package. Yeah, and they gave me thirty thousand dollars to quit. Wow, that's how bad they wanted me to leave. Wow, and I ended up getting all my commissions and all that stuff. But in the meantime, while I was negotiating that, I'd already talked to my old company, Wyndham, who came back after the 2008 crash, and I already had a job as a as a salesperson with them again. So I had already had it lined up, and I'm like, cool, I got a little vacation with some money, right? And uh I left that company and went back to um back to Wyndham.

SPEAKER_11: 1:21:25

When you were with Wyndham, did you ever get to use any of their properties?

SPEAKER_05: 1:21:27

Oh, yeah, all the time. Right? Hey, dude. We traveled a ton, man, uh all over the all over the United States, all over the you know, they got a windem in Turkey.

SPEAKER_01: 1:21:36

I was just there, dude. It was a Wyndham Paul Paul's thing in Tarsus.

SPEAKER_05: 1:21:41

Yeah, man. Yeah, we gotta we gotta travel, we gotta travel a lot. So I got back with them, man, and now I'm a salesperson again, and I'm still drinking, and I'm still popping pills, and I'm still not going to church, and me and my wife are still toxic and still fighting. Wow. My kids are still playing sports, but now I hit Presidents Club again the first year that I'm there. We go to Mexico, uh Playa del Carmen, and this crazy trip, and come back and they're like, hey, we're gonna start selling this new product over the phone. It's another line that we own, but they've never done it over the phone. Do you want to manage that department and start it from scratch? And I said, sure.

SPEAKER_07: 1:22:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:22:11

Um, started, took over that department, hired close to 10 people, started killing it, got it up over to a million dollars a month. Now all of a sudden, uh I can do no wrong there again. And uh I go on a work trip with my boss to Orlando. That office is a disaster, and that's where their main corporate office is. And we're about to launch a new product at that time called Margaritaville by Wyndham, which was Jimmy Buffett's product. And so I'm down there, and you know, it's uh it's it's it's starting to become all about Jimmy Buffett and everything. We're going to Margaritaville, and uh I even went to a Jimmy Buffett concert VIP and got to see the whole thing. It was actually a pretty cool experience there. They don't party at those stations. Yeah, they're crazy. PT cruisers. We went to one in throughout this time, we went to one in Frisco and had like the VIP experience with them. And uh Jimmy Buffett, uh he's passed away now. He's actually a really nice guy. But on quite a show, man. I was like, when I first I was like, oh gosh, I gotta go listen to the free margarita? Huh? Oh yeah. I heard every time you go to one of his shows, you get one free margarita. Yeah, and we had the VIP 10 out back, so we got as many margaritas as whatever their beer was.

SPEAKER_11: 1:23:16

Do you think your addiction and your alcohols what made you a hell of a salesman? Because you were already used to like manipulating things?

SPEAKER_05: 1:23:23

Probably. Uh, I was really good at just uh explaining, talking to people, painting a picture of why owning more time and vacations and next levels were really good.

SPEAKER_11: 1:23:31

And um obviously you were good at what you did because these people were just hammering over it.

SPEAKER_05: 1:23:36

I tell people that sales is just acting, right? You're just an actor. So it's like uh great at sales if you ever meet a salesman. There you go. I'm good. I'm trying to get as far away from sales as human as possible. I just tell people you'd steal your shirt off your back and then turn around and put you. Yeah, I used to joke with people, I'd be like, I'd steal your drugs and help you look for them. I've done that a couple of times. So if it comes up missing and you're offering to look for it, I know you took it, but so that that was Wendom happened, and then they offered me a job to take over their uh their office in Orlando, and I was at the point with my drinking and pill popping where you know you're like, maybe if I go somewhere else, it'll be better.

SPEAKER_11: 1:24:12

Relocation.

SPEAKER_05: 1:24:13

Maybe my relationship with my wife where we're fighting all the time, and it was getting worse and worse and more and more toxic with every day. Maybe it'll get better. And I was like, I never wanted to move my kids because of all the stuff that happened with me growing up. But I'm like, nobody's nobody's in middle school yet, or my daughter's just barely in sixth grade. If we're ever gonna move, now would be the time, and we'll get Disney World passes and we'll do all you know, all the things you talk yourself into. It's a good job, company, company guy. Maybe I'll get moved up the ladder, all this kind of stuff with which I really didn't care about. But you tell yourself whatever you need to do, off we go, man. And uh we moved from Seattle to Orlando, Florida, which is about as far as you can move. I was gonna say, that's literally we had a little pug, so it we couldn't fly because they said it might die or something on the on the thing. We'd just gotten it for the kids. So it was like with Alaska Airlines, you had to like sign a waiver or American Airlines, one of the two, where if the dog dies, it's not their fault. I'm like, that is not a good way to start the move. So they ended up renting us a suburban, and we drive across the country with three kids and a dog, and all our stuff was getting moved by the company, and the South had the worst storm it had seen in like 70 years. So there was snow in Arizona, uh blizzard through New Mexico, ice storms in Texas, like we had the worst.

SPEAKER_01: 1:25:23

The whole trip.

SPEAKER_05: 1:25:24

And then we get to Orlando, it's like the skies parted, and it was like, oh, it's 85 degrees, and I'm like, what the what was that, man? But we'd get there and um, you know, we had Bug Meget? Uh huh. Just Bug Meget. Bug made it and die. And uh we'd found a house, man. It was a nice house with a pool in the backyard on like an acre with a lake backed up to it. You said Orlando, right? Orlando. So there we are, man, in Orlando. I got everybody annual Disney passes, Universal Passes, you know, just living the dream now and moved and everything's good, right? So it's not. Then uh 2014. Uh how was the trip?

SPEAKER_11: 1:26:01

Did you guys drink and get high the whole trip?

SPEAKER_05: 1:26:03

Um, like whoever was driving wasn't drinking, and then the other person was drinking, and the next day the next person would take it. So, you know, we're always kind of popping pills. But with the alcohol, we went back and back and forth. All right. Um, so uh you guys got there still we got there fine.

SPEAKER_11: 1:26:18

But I mean you got there still.

SPEAKER_05: 1:26:21

Still drinking, still doing all that. So we get down there. Um that was the year the Seahawks actually won the Super Bowl, right? So I was like, all I had to do was move out of the state and they won. And so we're we're drinking, we're drinking all the time. We we're made our first stop at Disney World is we knew that if you went to MGM, they had a bar with you know drinks. We knew where you could find alcohol at this park and that park, and it's like that's pretty bad. Or you're always bringing mixed drinks. We're going to kids' games and they're mixed, and we're taking pills. Uh, but again, my thing was pills, man, and so it was like I'm not gonna talk about how much she drank, but like I I drank pretty, pretty steadily, but um, you know, we were always both just it's something. So yeah, that whole time there we are. Now we're in Orlando, but the office is doing great, man. I turned it around, got it from 300k to like almost one and a half million dollars within a month. The very next month it was turned around. They just had poor leadership. Yeah, and so there we are, we're killing it. So now we're doing good again. And um, I end up getting loaded in in uh May, and I ended up getting arrested. Oh, geez. And I ended up spending the night in jail.

SPEAKER_01: 1:27:23

And this is the first time I've heard of an arrest.

SPEAKER_05: 1:27:25

Yeah, yeah. I I got arrested once when I was 23 for a DUI, but I blew a 0.082 and I got like a negligent driving. It was dropped. So really I didn't have any legal troubles. Um, so I got arrested, and um, they didn't end up proceeding with any charges, but I spent the day in Orlando jail waiting to get PR'd, and I didn't have anybody's number, man. I didn't know anybody's number, I didn't have my phone, I didn't know what my boss's number was off the top of my head. So I no call no show, and you know, they're like, Oh no, they're like something's wrong, right? And my boss asked me, Do you have a problem with alcohol? And I lied to him at first, and then they said, Yeah, man, maybe I I maybe I do have a problem. And he's like, All right, man, well, we want to help you go get some help, and then once we know that you've gotten some help, he wanted me to go to inpatient. I'm like, no, I don't want to go to inpatient. Yeah, so I started going to a celebrate recovery because I'm like, all right, found some random CR, only like two people went to it, and uh found this counselor at a bat first Baptist church and got him to do some counseling with me and sign off on some slips. And once my work was okay with it, yeah, then I stopped. Right back to drinking.

SPEAKER_01: 1:28:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:28:29

No, no, no, no. When that arrest happened, I stopped drinking. Really? I just I just cut it, man, cold turkey. Once it started to affect my job, I was like, I can't do this anymore. But I was still I was still taking, I stopped popping pills at that time. I stopped drinking and I started just doing suboxing. So that's all I was doing, man. Just suboxing, right? So I used to think I was sober in this period of time, but I was still suboxing. You're still getting high every day. Yeah, buddy. But at the time, I was like, that that was scared straight, right? I don't want to lose my job. Like, all right, man, this it this got me on the brink of it. Everybody's now kind of figuring out like maybe I don't have it together. I got arrested, and it's embarrassing, right?

SPEAKER_01: 1:29:03

And what are you like 34?

SPEAKER_05: 1:29:05

33 yeah, man, it was 33, 34. We moved to um Florida in 2003, and then this was 200 and 14. Yeah, my birthday's in February, so I was I was thirty, thirty-four, man, and um yeah.

SPEAKER_11: 1:29:18

So in the 10 years that you were successful, outside of the one company that paid you to leave in this time, you never had any really you were pretty good at what you did then. Yeah, and if I'm hiding it anyways, pretty good hiding it.

SPEAKER_05: 1:29:33

Yeah, hiding it, or like I said, man, if if the heat got on, I'd be like, ah, FMLA, right? And I'd be like, my back's going yeah, whatever, and then I could use that as my excuse for missing. And so, like, they might have thought something, but there's nothing they could have done. Because once you get protection from uh family medical leave for whatever your thing is, they can't even question it because of HIPAA loss.

SPEAKER_11: 1:29:50

So it's I don't I don't mean this in a good way, and I don't mean to glorify what you did, but Dan, you were pretty good at functioning.

SPEAKER_05: 1:29:58

I was good at functioning, yeah, man. And uh it it made it last a lot longer because I never thought throughout this time that I had a problem.

SPEAKER_11: 1:30:04

Even with this, I don't think I know anybody who's done what you've done and it lasted that long doing what they were doing.

SPEAKER_05: 1:30:09

That's pretty crazy, man. And so, you know, there were ups and downs and there were things, but that was the first, that was the first arrest, man. And uh there I am, you know, embarrassed, like because they know that I missed because I got arrested and all this stuff. So it just kind of scared me straight in that moment. And so I'm like, all right, I'm done, and I'm I'm not gonna drink anymore. I'm good. So now I'm just on some boxing and that's it. And uh I still remember this day so clearly, man, because like for a lot of my life I've struggled with anxiety, I've struggled with depression, but never like deabilitate, like just debilitating anxiety or anything to where I can't function. But I was at a kid's football practice, man, and I was sitting there and all of a sudden I just started feeling really weird, right? And like I felt like almost my my I'd left my body and I was kind of watching myself sitting there, right? And I was just like, uh, I get home and I'm like, I don't know what's wrong, and I'm pacing, and my heart's pounding in my chest, and I'm thinking I'm having a heart attack, and it turns out to be a panic attack, right? I'm just I've got the worst anxiety. I ended up going into the hospital and they gave me some uh Atavan, right? And it makes it better. But then when I leave, they gave me some stupid uh antidepressant, no, no, uh, you know, no good stuff, no bentos, and I'm just in 24-hour panic attack mode. I it doesn't turn off, I can't function. Every time I talk, I think I'm yelling. Uh like any loud noises, I'm like jumping, and I couldn't do anything. I put a hoodie on, called in sick to work for two, like two weeks, hid under a blanket, didn't want to talk. It was like a day felt like a year, and it was just constant anxiety that I could not shake. I was in another world, man, and my wife was getting on me. She's like, Why don't you go back to work? I'm like, I can't function. And I remember the day I tried to go back into work, I sat down, somebody said hello to me, and I'm like, nope, can't do it. Took off. Really? And I paced the parking lot for an hour, or it felt like an hour, it might have been five minutes, and my boss came out and he's like, dude, are you okay? I'm like, I think I need to go to the hospital. I go to the hospital. Um, again, they give me Atavan and it chills me out and I feel good, but they send me away with another like non-prescription. Finally, I went to my doctor and my blood pressure was through the roof, and I was just freaking out. And um, I was like, I need something, I need I need Xanax. I need just even in a small dose, it's the only thing that is stopping this. And I told her I can't function. So she gives me a small amount of them, and then I find out a dude for my work, what a shocker. I had found somebody at my work, a buddy of mine has volume, and now I'm buying them from him directly. And so now I don't have I'm not drinking and I'm taking Suboxin, but now all of a sudden I'm hooked on on uh these anti-and I had to have them to function, like and I saw what had happened because for weeks, man, I'm having panic attacks, and the only thing that helped was that. Um, but now I'm starting to act stupid because you act stupid on that stuff. Your whole frontal lobe gets shut off. It's just you know doing stupid things. And so my boss is like, Did you relapse? You know, and I'm like, No, man, I've the only thing I'm doing is I'm taking these pills, and he's like, Are you taking them as prescribed? And I'm like, No, they're not even prescribed. And he's like, he's like, Well, then you relapsed, and I'm like, All right, solid point, right? And um I I faked a doctor's note for something, and I ended up getting caught for it. It was this whole thing at work, right? So here's strike number two with a company that I've worked for for a long time, and uh, so then I'm like, all right, man, I I gotta I gotta get this figured out, I gotta, I gotta stop, and um, I start just kind of slowly weaning myself off them and going back to that same doctor and getting the really small amounts, right? Wow. Um because it's prescribed, because it's prescribed, and so I'm trying, I'm trying to do it that way, and so I got it back to where like sometimes it would spike and get a little crazy, but for the most part, your your anxiety, yeah. My anxiety and even the amount of pills that I would take would spike, but I'm not buying them from dude anymore. I'm just getting them from the doctor, and I'm trying to do it. Everything's good at work again. Again, man, once I thought that something was going to get taken away, I'm like, all right, I gotta see if I can figure this out. So I go through that for for a period of time. I get all the way to 2016 where things are doing okay. I I considered myself sober because I wasn't drinking that entire time. My ex-wife was drinking every night. She had a bottle of vodka in the freezer, and she would, oh man, that was horrible. Like, I'm sober and she's drunk every night, and I'm just getting ears full of stuff, and I'm not in the mood anymore, right? I'm like, I just want to go to sleep. So it was two years of just that. And I'm like, seriously, you're gonna keep doing this when I'm not even doing it anymore. It's like it sucks. Like we went on our our our anniversary thing down to like by Miami, down to uh uh whatever's north of it, I can't remember the name of it, but we went we went down there and uh and she's just loaded, you know, the whole time, and um it sucked.

SPEAKER_01: 1:34:57

So uh when you tried to get right or had these little wake ups, yeah. Did she ever like was recovery or anything? We gotta do this together, honey.

SPEAKER_05: 1:35:10

Yeah, I mean it's obviously it's her story, and I don't like to tell other people's stories, but she never thought that she had a problem. She always thought I was the problem. Okay. And uh the whole I was the addict, and um, if it wasn't for me, everything would be fantastic. Okay. And she probably still feels that way. But Denial. So uh and I I was a problem. I I did have a problem. I was a serious issue, but it was a it was a it was a two-way takes two to tango street, and um, you know, but I can't, I can't, uh I I can only keep my side of the street clean. So um, so at that time, you know, there we are, she's doing that. I'm su boxing, and I I'm not really doing these uh anti-anxiety things like crazy. And then um I I get into a crazy car accident at the end of 2016. Me and my ex get into a fight, and uh it's right before my youngest son's flag football game, and it's like a semifinal slap champ championship if you win the first one, right? It's at the YMCA or whatever, but flag football, and we're driving and we're fighting. I mean, we're talking kicking and screaming and all this stuff, man. We're just yelling at each other. Um, and she's so mad at me, and we're just fighting and we're going at it. And uh, I drop her and him off at the field. He forgets his water, he always forgot his water. So I'm like, all right, I'm gonna go to the Chevron and get him water. I get him water, I grab myself like a Mountain Dew or something, and uh driving back, and I'm driving down the road, uh going 45, and a car is at a stop sign, doesn't look right, and pulls out in front of me, and I'm in a big Yukon denali, right? This big bad boy, and this little Chevy cobalt thing pulls out in front of me, and I see like a 10-year-old kid in the front seat, and I can remember it as clear as day, and I swerve out of the way, even though I knew it was gonna send me into a ditch, and I went into a ditch, and it ended up hitting a tree. All the airbags deployed. Oh, geez, and I got knocked out cold. Um, and like and I blocked, I tried to block my face, so I double fist punched myself. Oh geez, airbag, I knocked myself out. Better not mess with me. Um so yeah, so the the the airbag hits me, man. I come to and I I think the car's on fire because all the smoke in the airbags, and I roll out real quick, and this dude's cussing at me in Spanish, and I'm like, dude, it was your fault, and you know, he's cut, and then I'm thinking, oh man, this guy doesn't have insurance, so now I'm taking pictures of everything. And uh his he had a scratch, like a 12-inch scratch on his car, and that was it, man. My uh this car was a year and a day old and it was totaled. Wow. Craziest thing about that is the day before I had just got I had just taken it in because there was a recall on the airbags, and the day before they fixed the airbags. If I would have not known if I would have gotten an accident a day early, the doctor said I'd be total, I'd be dead. Wow. So um the reason why I waited until the day before is because I had free oil changes with the car. I was like, I'll go in it the same day and get this thing fixed, right? And literally went in to get the oil change and they fixed the airbags, and the very next day the entire car was totaled. And so um I was a mess. Grace and mercy. I got had a concussion, man. My back was jacked up, multiple disc problems, uh, two in my neck herniated, uh, one in my middle was bulged, and then the bottom two were herniated in my lower back. So I'm I'm pretty jacked up from this thing. I've got nerve damage, um, I can't feel my hands, I can't feel my feet. It felt like somebody stabbed me in the back of my neck with a knife, and then just fire was coming down my arms. Yeah. And um, I I get referred to this doctor from a buddy at work, right? We know it's coming next. He's a doctor, feel good. I even told him, man, I was taking some box and stuff, but he's like, well, we'll take you off that for now because you know, you got this car accident stuff going on, you're gonna have to do all these tests. And um, he ends up putting me on this medication called Hysingla, which I'd never heard of before, which was extended release Vicodin, made by the same people that made Oxycottin, Purdue Pharma. Jesus, they were looking for anyway that they could get as many, you know, get you as doped up as possible. Um, this is actually the drug that got me involved in the Purdue Pharma lawsuit that is still pending. But they sent me paperwork like you were prescribed Hy Singla. And I was like, Yeah, I was. 120 milligrams. They prescribed me two a day, 240 milligrams of Vicotin. That is like 24 10 milligram Vicodins in two pills, extended release. And then he gave me and he'd have a he'd have a mail pharmacy mail them to me. And you're in Florida where you can go to multiple pharmacies as long as you don't show insurance. And then he gave me Per Cassette, just in case that wasn't enough. And then um, and then I was like, man, I don't like all these tests and stuff, you know, like getting into the you know MRI, and so now he gave me Atavan, come like, sweet, now I got Ventus. And he would always ride it with 90 days of refills and all this kind of stuff. And then I realized I could go into him and be like, yeah, Ada van's not working. What year was this? This was 2000 and end of 2016, beginning of 2017.

SPEAKER_11: 1:39:50

Do you remember that time where they were having what they were called? Uh I forget what it was, but they were coming down on uh doctors that were kind of like getting you know what I mean. Is this about the same time as that?

SPEAKER_05: 1:40:01

This guy they would just like this guy ended up getting in a lot of trouble. So Florida doctors were taking prescriptions from people in other states, cash pays, and they would they would fill prescriptions. Yeah, there was a lot of Florida runs some stuff sometimes. So I I go to this guy referred by somebody, he's like, You're gonna love him, and like it was a doctor feel good for sure. Yeah, so now I could go in and be like, Ataban's not working. What about a different medication? Well, let's try Xanax, and he gave me 90 days of refills. And then I go back and be like, instant release isn't working. What about some extended release? And I would go look up all the different, you know, meds and just kind of come in. Oh wow. So now I've got you knew what you wanted. I've got every benzo you could possibly imagine, an instant release and extended release, all with 90-day refills at multiple pharmacies all across, you know, the Orlando area. I've got Hysing, I've got 240 milligrams of Vicodin in my system every day, plus Percocets just for funsies. And then um I go into the doctor, I'm like, I'm so tired, man. You know, and he's like, You probably have ADHD, right? And so now he gives me out here's some deal. And he gives me extended release, right? 230 milligrams a day, 60 milligrams a day of extended, and then I go and I'm like, I don't know about this extended release. What about instant release? So now I got instant release. So I got extended release to pop and instant release to snort. Because I'm like, yeah, well, that'll be a bad guess. Oh wow. So I've got uppers and downers and everything in betweeners. And with benzodiazepines, man, your your frontal lobe is turned off. You do not care about consequences of anything. Wow. And so I'm in really bad shape. This is the beginning of 2017. When I got into that accident, I was still with Wyndham and I was working from home because I was a head coach for my son's football team, right? Because I had not been drinking or anything, so I was head coaching his tackle football team, my youngest son's football team. And um, working from home, had an office at home and was starting to sell timeshare over the phone because I'm like, cool, man, I don't have to worry about managing people and I can just do my thing. I I was having the biggest month I had ever had in the history of my career with them when I got into that car accident. Wow. And I didn't sell another thing after that because I couldn't even speak because the concussion was so bad, right? Like they called me and they're like, We're because they recorded all your calls. They're like, Mike, are you drunk? And I'm like, no. And they're like, You we can't even understand a word you're saying. And you're texting your customers and they're really worried because you I'm looking back and none of it made any sense, man. I was I was in rough shape. Oh wow. Um so yeah, now I'm now I'm addicted to all these pills and I'm coaching youth sports. Um I know I'm a disaster, and I know it's getting worse um, you know, by the day, and I'm taking all this Adderall, so I'm losing a bunch of weight, man. I'm down to, you know, I weight oh thanks, bro. I'm down to 215. I'm 215 right now, but I'm down to a buck fifty right then because I'm taking all this stuff. And uh it that seven months, man, it was only from January until July because of all those pills. I ended up um not being able to work anymore. And uh I was out on disability with uh Wyndham, but when you're a salesperson, man, they pay you like five hundred bucks a week, which is nothing. So I realized I needed to make money, so now I'm on all these pills, and now I'm going into Walmarts and Targets and I'm starting to s uh steal stuff. Wow. I would go in and fill up the entire carts and just mob out the door. Yep. And I found I found a I found uh like I I found a person at Walmart or was it Target or Walmart, one of the two, and I would tell them, Hey, can you go in the back and get me this laptop? And they'd bring me the most expensive laptop, and then they I'd be like, Nope, not that one. Can you go get this one instead? And they wouldn't take the other one back, and then I would steal, you know, like I did that like multiple times, and but I just started not caring and just loading up carts. So now I'm online selling stuff, uh, just to make you know rent payments and to pay for stuff. Um like one night I I came home uh and it was weird. I had a bullet hole in the in this back door of the car, and I don't even know how it happened. Oh I think it was because I stole something from a cell phone store. I ripped a cell phone out and booked. Uh and the guy chased me and he was tapping on the window, and I think he might have shot at the car when I cut out. So, like, all this crazy stuff would happen, man. And I would I started Ubering at night just high as a kite, man. I'm on all these benzos and all these drugs, and I would go pick people up from bars because they would never notice that I'm drunk, right? And they tipped really well. So I would drive all around the Orlando bar scene, man, I'd pick people up and Uber them. Um, and they wouldn't say anything. I'd have a cocktail like right in my cup holder, but they're loaded, man. I didn't know. I'm getting five-star reviews like everybody. This guy's the best. I had like the best rating on Uber, and I'm driving around at two in the morning loaded, never getting pulled over by the cops. One night I came home, and I don't even remember this, but I I like pulled the car uh into like some bushes and like up into like all these plants, and I guess I dragged a tree out of the like not a huge tree, but it was stuck underneath the back of my bumper, and then I parked my car in the middle of the cul-de-sac. I didn't even park it in the driveway.

SPEAKER_02: 1:44:43

Oh, Jesus.

SPEAKER_05: 1:44:44

And my kids were like looking out the window, like, what did dad do? You could see the trail of dirt. Oh, wow. Right? Where I'm driving around, and then I just parked in the middle of the cul-de-sac and just got out and walked into the house. I didn't even park in the driveway, man. So, like, stuff like that was happening. This is seven months, right? I am just gone from these benzos. I'm not caring, not thinking, I'm not making any sense. Now I'm just breaking the law because I'm like, I'm only getting paid 500 bucks a week on disability. I can't go back to work. I'm so high I couldn't even if I wanted to. And so I just started stealing, man, and Ubering. Theft and Ubering was was like the way to pay bills. And it got worse and worse and worse until basically uh one day I woke up and my kids and my uh wife at the time, still not ex-wife, had left and and left to Seattle where her family was, left back to Seattle. So I like woke up one day and like everybody's gone. Everybody's gone, man. Whoa. And so uh that was a that was a sh, you know, like an eye-opener. And I was like, man, I don't want to be here anymore. You were that out of it that I was I was so out of it, bro. Like my kids had gone back to visit their grandparents because they went every summer and we paid for them to go and it was fine. And they knew everything that was going on, they refused to s to send them back. Wow. Uh thank god for yeah, you know, they shouldn't have. I was I was a disaster, and then she was like, I don't know what to do. I guess I gotta leave too, right? But she was still popping pills and doing all the stuff with me. But I get it, pressure from family. It's like just go. And it was probably the best thing at that point. So all of a sudden, man, there I am, and uh, I got nobody, right? And I don't really have a job, and I'm just uh like I've got all these just crazy pill addictions, and I'm like, I gotta leave Florida, I gotta leave now because if I stay here, I'm gonna keep going to this doctor. Wow. If I stay here, I'm just gonna get in trouble more and more because all I was doing was stealing stuff. So I had a couple of run-ins with the cops that were close, but um it nothing really materialized yet. But uh I I I just go, you know what? I'm gonna sell whatever I can, I'm gonna leave Florida. So I put everything up in the house for sale, man. I just put it all online, all of our stuff, because I'm like, I don't have a truck to take anything, all I have is my car. So I loaded everything that I could in the car, and it was mostly just keepsakes of stuff the kids had made. I didn't care about anything else, that's all that mattered. And I sold as much as I could to get myself money to get out of there, man. It took me a few days, and I had to get a tire fixed on my car because I had flattened the tire from driving.

SPEAKER_00: 1:47:04

Hauling a tree. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:47:07

Doing something stupid. Right. And so um I cut out, man, and and decided to come to my parents in Arizona. They lived in Payson. They had retired, left Seattle, and come to come to Payson. So I leave Florida in 2017 with however many pills I have left, just ready to cold turkey this bad boy. And I I told you how many things I was taking. Yeah, opiates and the benzos. Yeah, it was so bad. I get to my parents' house and uh I start to run out of pills, man. And for a while I'm Ubering. I was going down to Phoenix and doing that because you can't really Uber up and pacing and making a little bit of cash, trying to build stuff up so I could move back to Seattle. I was working on a job in Seattle with a buddy of mine from back in the life insurance days. He had basically gotten me a really good job up there. So if I could get it back together, I could move back up there, kind of get my family back together, get my kids back at least. I didn't really care about the wife, but at least the kids back. Yeah, and um, and so I was kind of on my way to do that. But man, once those pills ran out, those benzodiazepines, I had anxiety attacks like I had never had. Whatever I thought was bad in Orlando, it was the band-aid that I put on for so long in those benzos, I was a disaster. I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep, I couldn't do anything. I'd stare at the roof of the ceiling of my parents' uh the bedroom I was staying at, my parents. I couldn't even talk about anything. Every time I said like before, I'd I'd whisper and I thought I was yelling. And my dad would say something to me and I'd be like, What? You know, like just it was so, so bad. I remember getting a pizza from Little Caesars and trying to eat it, and it was just cardboard. I got so skinny that I remember taking the belt off a pair of shorts. I've worn a 34 as long as I can remember, maybe a 36 if I partied a little too much, but it's been pretty much the same size waist. These 34 shorts, man, fell right to the floor. Like I was skinny and I was in really bad shape. And um my parents wanted me to stay there until I finally figured it out. I should have. I've gone to detox because I found out you can die from benzodiazepine on my jaws. And so I was curled up in ball some nights crying, just like thinking I was gonna die. And just just fighting this thing. And um, you know, I was there for for a few weeks and started to feel okay, but I was still in this constant state of panic. And my wife was starting to get like, when are you gonna come to Seattle? When are you gonna come to Seattle? And they finally got me an interview at that job, an in-person interview. I'm like, I guess I gotta go. I drive all the way from from Payson up to Seattle. It was the weirdest drive ever because I'm still having all this anxiety, right? And um, I'm not taking anything at this point. I'm not taking any. Uh I I'd kicked all the opiates, like just cold turkey. I'd kicked all the benzos, but I've got panic attacks. And so I'm probably about three to four weeks sober at this time, and I'm driving all the way up there with the worst anxiety in my life. Like, I was I was um just I was in really bad shape. When I'd see people, I just I couldn't even be around people, couldn't talk to them. Like every mannerism that I had was just like I thought everybody noticed everything I was doing. It was so bad.

SPEAKER_10: 1:50:11

What do you think was causing those?

SPEAKER_05: 1:50:13

It was because I had really bad anxiety, and then I shouldn't have taken benzos. I should have actually just worked through it, probably started working out and eating better and doing all the things I wasn't doing and dealing with it the right way. But instead, I just medicated it. Yeah, and now since I didn't feel it for however long and I was on an inside, I mean the amount of benzos I took. Yeah, man, I had 240 pills one night, and my ex-wife took pictures of all of them, poured them out, took pictures. She wouldn't take my pills because she knew I would freak out. Yeah, but then three days later, she took pictures of them again. I took 90 pills in three days. Holy crap. 90 pills. Wow. I don't know how I did, but she showed me the two pictures, and I'm like, that is and I had all different colors and sizes of everything, man. Wow. And so I don't I don't know if I did. I always had a stash on me, you know, like I slept with my pills on me and my pockets and all the stuff. Like, I don't want any nobody's messing with them, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And uh it was it was so bad, and so that that just anxiety wouldn't stop, and it didn't stop when I got to Seattle. Yeah, I went to an interview, got the stupid job, and like I put on a suit, man, and showed up and was like answering the questions horribly, but I was a referral from somebody, so I think they gave me a shot. And it was a business development manager for uh like a um technical like recruiting firm um in Seattle, and I had to work in the office. So now I'm showing up in the office and I've still got crazy anxiety. I couldn't even pick up a phone. I'm a salesperson, yeah, and I couldn't pick up a phone. I pick up the phone and hear the dial tone and be like, nope. And then I'm just like I was like LinkedIn, messaging people and emailing people, all the stuff that doesn't work. Yeah, just seemed like I was busy. I was like making up fake appointments that weren't even really happening. Wow. And um then one then one day I'm I'm I'm just like I don't know what to do, man, because I don't know if I'm ever gonna come out of this. When I got up to Seattle, I was living with my little brother, I moved in with him, and so uh it's just I was literally just I I felt like I was in a tunnel. I'd get up and just kind of go and yeah, just woop woo woo and I'd show up to work and I do anything to get out of there as as quickly as I could, man. And I I know they're probably like, what's up with this guy? He doesn't do anything all day, and we're paying him a fat salary, what the heck? And so um I uh I I remember, man, I'm at I'm at football practice watching my son play, uh, because I'm not coaching now. I I couldn't even if I wanted to, but I got up there after football had started, and I'm sitting in the car with my ex-wife, man, and she is just like talking so fast, and I'm like heck, she's normally not this talkative. Normally she's mean and you know calls me names and doesn't want to talk to me. But now you're just telling me your life story, and there was that crazy story about the dude in Vegas who like gunned people down from the hotel. Remember that? And she was talking telling me all these conspiracy theories, and I'm just like, what is going on?

SPEAKER_01: 1:52:57

What are you on?

SPEAKER_05: 1:52:58

Right, and so I'm watching her, and we're supposed to go to a movie that night, and we go to one of those ones with the reclining chairs, right? And a candy bar falls down the slot of the chairs, and then she is underneath that chair for like the whole movie, making all this noise. And I'm thinking, why are you doing that over a stupid candy bar? Like, if you want a candy bar, you can have mine, it's the same kind. And she's just like, shh, just leave me alone, leave me alone, and I'm like, Oh, geez, she lost her pills. Like it just clicked in my mind. I'm like, nobody freaks out about anything like that. You wouldn't even freak out, like maybe your wallet, maybe a little, or your phone, but you wouldn't freak out. Like, she was like, Where did they go? Man shining her flashlight, and we're watching a movie and she's being loud, you know, in a theater, and uh, she lost her Adderall, but she found it. So I was like, give me some. I was like, I need to function again, and I can't work, and so I need some. And she gave me some and I was being good for a little while. I'd take a half a pill, right? You know, just just trying to make and I've started feeling better. Now I'm at work and now I'm killing it. Now I'm doing good again, and I'm just like, I started taking Adderall. So I start going to the doctor, right? And I start getting my own Adderall. Yeah, my dog. And she's going to a doctor, and then I find another doctor that'll give me more Adderall. And you know, so now we both have a full script, and there we are again, and we're doing Adderall and drinking, and then I get Vicodin, and I'm right right back to the dang. So it didn't take didn't take too long, man. But like just like that, all of a sudden. And so um I when I left Florida, I stole a lot of stuff. But I stole a pair of Beats headphones from a Verizon store. I'm telling the story specifically for a reason. I walked in, man, uh, and this is right before I left. Isaacite on Benzos, right? Just all sorts of Azuda, just ripped them out of the package, threw them down my pants, walked out because I needed about a hundred bucks. And I'm like, I get a hundred bucks for these online, but if I can't sell them quick enough online, I'm gonna go to the pawn shop. And I had no patience, so I didn't even post them online. I went straight to the pawn shop. I said, Who cares? I'm moving, right? I gave him my fingerprint, gave him my ID, the whole nine, sell them, got a hundred and twenty-five bucks, I think is what I ended up getting. I leave uh Florida, didn't think anything about that whole situation. Oh shit. I um I I uh man, I leave work one night and I'm driving to go pick up my daughter to take her shopping for like Christmas, and it's almost her birthday, almost her 16th birthday. And um I uh I get pulled over. There was a ton of traffic, and I'm like, all right, I can pull on the shoulder and I can be off the freeway in like minutes and then get to pick her up. But there was a cop right behind me, I get lit up, and he's taking forever, man. Once he pulls my ID and all this stuff, and I I don't know what's going on. Then another cop pulls up, and then I get a spotlight on me, and I'm like, yeah. Yeah, this is bad news. And then they pull me out of the car, put me face down, like you know, on the side of the road in the main, uh, have guns drawn, and they were like, You're wanted, you know, in Florida uh for theft and all this other kind of stuff. And I'm like, what the heck, man? I didn't even know how to warrant. I just got a new job, passed a background check, all that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_07: 1:55:56

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:55:56

Because I found out that if you haven't been caught on the warrant yet, it doesn't show. Um, for anybody out there who wants to know, yeah. Don't get caught on the warrant, man. You can get whatever job you want, but once you get caught, good luck. It's there. Now you're gonna work in a restaurant or construction for the rest of your life. No, I'm just kidding. Um, so I get I get pulled out of the car, man. I get arrested, I get taken into King County jail, which is the main one in Seattle, and my bail is what the bail is in Florida, and the bail has to be sat at there's no PR in me. It's like I'm wanted in another state. A buddy of mine ends up bailing me out because I got him a job at my work and he was starting on Monday, and so he's probably like, Man, I better get this guy out to make sure I get my job going. That's at least what I think. But I was it was nice of him, he bailed me out, and I'm like, man, I don't even know what to do now, but I didn't lose my job, right? I at least I was in jail for about three to four days, and my ex-wife had learned from me, and she emailed him and said I had back problems and all this kind of stuff. Um I already had the short the FMLA paperwork done on this one because it's just it was almost natural. Yeah, and so she had like acted like she was me and emailed from my email, and so like I didn't I didn't lose the job. But if I wouldn't have gotten out when I did it, it might have gone the other way. So I get out of jail, man, and and uh now I have to start going to court once every four months. So I can either go to Florida, turn myself in and and handle it, but I'm like, I don't want to deal with this thing, man, or I can go to court up here, and if they don't get a governor's warrant, they can't extradite me. Yeah, right. And I'm like, seriously, I stole some beats headphones and sold them to a pawn shop, they're not gonna extradite me. So I go every month, man. They don't do anything, four months goes by, and they're like, you're good to go. Um, but you still have a warrant. And so if you get arrested, right, um, you're just gonna do this over and over again. Yeah, you're just gonna keep doing this over and over again. And I was like, whatever, I don't care. I'm like watching, I'm thinking the cops are gonna follow me out. This time I'm taking a ton of Adderall and all this stuff. I ended up losing my job while I was going to court for this because I used a company credit card for personal expenses. Um, like I was buying pizza and alcohol, and uh and my ex-wife took the card and went out to a movie theater with her friends and used it and spent like 150 bucks. And they were like, why would you even need because the the gas and like the the the um the the food, right? And even the alcohol, I could get on maybe like a grocery bill or something and make it seem like it was work-related. But that movie theater one, man, that was the one that got me can. I didn't even have a good excuse for it. Yeah, so there was like thousands of dollars and what they called fraudulent charges, and so they fired me. So now I am a fugitive of justice in Washington State, wanted for felody uh theft in Florida, and I'm unemployable unless I want to work in a restaurant or construction.

SPEAKER_11: 1:58:31

The company pressed charges against you? It didn't press charges.

SPEAKER_05: 1:58:34

Oh wow, they threatened and act like they were because I was like, You can't fire me. I'm on I'm on FMLA and all this stuff. They're like, okay, well, if we don't fire you, then we're gonna press charges for whatever.

SPEAKER_09: 1:58:42

So it was I was like, All right, yeah, I'm good. Call it good, have a nice life.

SPEAKER_05: 1:58:47

And so I I but we had already, um, after I got out of jail, because I had a pretty good job, me and my ex-wife and the kids had gotten a new townhouse back in the neighborhood that we used to live in and like all this kind of stuff. I didn't really want to live with my wife at the time, uh, now my ex-wife, because we were fighting. We were our relationship was done, but it was the only way that I could get my kids back in my life. So I was like, whatever, if I just got to deal with her, I don't even care. Man, we fought every night, slept on the couch downstairs. The relationship was over. Yeah, but I didn't care. I hung out with my kids and I was like, I don't you just you go up in the room and drink and do whatever you want and yell at me. I don't even care anymore. I got to that apathetic, like indifferent point where I didn't care. And that's a really bad place to be in a relationship because she could yell at me all she wants, and I'm like, I don't, I don't, okay, you know, whatever. Yeah, so that's where we were at. But so that happens, and now I can't pay the rent, and I can't, you know, what am I gonna do? Like, I can't uh find uh enough money to be able to do that. Me and her get into a huge blowout fight, and she was like, I want you gone. And I was finally like, you know what, I'm done. We we get into this just big blood argument, and I was ready to be done with the relationship. Yeah. Uh I left the house, she threw all my stuff out, you know, every side of the townhouse, every door that opened. My stuff was everywhere. I had to go collect. And it's Seattle, it's like muddy and rainy. So I bag everything up. And um I am uh oh yeah, at this time I uh I'm renting a car because the other car uh that I had gotten got uh wrecked because of st stupidity on on my part, right? And so I'm renting a car and now I'm out of money and I don't have any money to pay for the rental car. So I leave the the house and I'm driving around in this rental car with however much Adderall and bike it in. And I'm parking in parking lots, drinking, just sitting there, sleeping, and and about a week goes by of that, right? And I'm like, man, I don't know what I'm gonna do. I uh I don't have anywhere, I don't really have anywhere to go unless it's uh somebody where I would I would need to actually get help. And I didn't I didn't want to get help. Yeah I called my parents, I'm like, can I come back down to Arizona? They're like, nah, nah, we're good. You know, like we're good this time. I don't think it's a good idea for you to come down here. Wow. Um, you already came here and left. I left way earlier than they wanted me to. They wanted me to stay longer and get things situated. Yeah. I'm glad that my dad kind of said that in that time, was like, nah, because the only person I had left to call was my my little brother, my brother uh Daniel, right? And I knew it. And it a week had gone by, I'm out of money. People are calling me, and my family saying the rental car company's calling you, they're gonna file charges for grand theft auto because you're not paying them and you need to return the car, and you know how it is. Once you lose the car, it's over. Yeah, or you're just out in them streets, dude, just doing that stuff. So I was like, man, I don't know what to do. So finally I called my brother, Daniel, and he was an intake coordinator at the Salvation Army's Adult Rehabilitation Center in Seattle. Oh, wow. And um he's like, You can come stay at my house for three days, get this stuff out of your system, then you're going to treatment. And I was like, All right, whatever, man. I got a warrant out for my rest, I've got no job, my marriage is toast. I I don't have any other choice. So I guess. And I I at the time I'm thinking I'll figure it out, right? Like, I'll just go along with it. I show up, man, to his house. I stay clean for about three days, and I almost cut out once, and then all of a sudden I'm in his car and we're on I-5 headed up to Seattle to go to this Salvation Army place that he works, man. And I'm like, I don't even know what's happening. And he's telling me all the details of it on the way up, and I'm like, oh my gosh, dude. You show up, you got to wear other people's clothes because you're not allowed to wear your own clothes. You got to go into their thrift store because everybody's got to kind of look the same, and your haircut can only be cut a certain way, and there's all these rules and stuff like that. And um, you know, you're sleeping in a room with four other dudes on these little twin beds, and you work in their warehouse because that's kind of how their operations work. You're sorting clothes and you know, just sorting donations, and so like two months prior, I was, you know, doing just fine, had a really good job. Now here I am. Wow. Uh coming off all this crap at the Salvation Army sorting clothes in the top of their warehouse that has no AC, right?

SPEAKER_11: 2:02:55

Um, and it's just a fun that's a funny circle. Yeah, man, it is going from being raised in Salvation Army churches to here I am.

SPEAKER_05: 2:03:01

Yeah, in one absolute disaster, right? So there I am, man, and I'm like, all right, this is stupid. I'm not like these people. I had a job. I'm not, I'm not a heroin addict. I don't, I don't have any problems. I was super prideful, and I was like, I wasn't there for the right reasons. It was like I don't have anywhere else to go and I'm I'm facing these legal charges. Maybe if I do this for a little while, it'll get me out of that, was really what I was thinking. And so I decided at a month, man, because the Salvation Army, you can leave on Saturdays with another guy and be gone for four hours and come back and go to the library and hop on the internet. I'm like, I'm gonna try to figure this thing out, man. I'm gonna, as soon as I hit the 30-day blackouts over, I'm gonna go find a job at the library. Yeah, I'm forgetting that I've I'm a fugitive of justice, right? Wanted. So I get to a month, and at that point, I'm like, I've been sober for a month. I haven't been around my ex-wife in a month. I'm feeling happy. Like, I don't really know anxiety, no anxiety, man. I was feeling good, and I was like, not being around her, all of a sudden I was like, man, I'm a lot more just joyful. And wow, I was like, I'm actually starting to enjoy these people around here. And I was like, you know what, maybe I'll just stick this thing out for a little bit longer. And I started going to meetings that we would go to, AA meetings and stuff at night. It's my first first exposure ever to recovery. Yeah, because my whole life I never thought I had a problem. I went to CR, right? When I when I was like, oh, I need to get a note signed for the job thing, but it wasn't because I was actually trying to get help. I was like, all right, come on. Like and I went there because somebody's like, well, they got music. I'm like, that sounds a little bit more bearable. At least I'll listen to some music and maybe something. So um that was my only experience. So now I'm going to these meetings and I'm starting to learn, you know, principles of recovery. And I'm like, all right, man, there was a really cool house manager there, man, who just like would give us these talks. And I'm like, I remember getting there though when I first got there. You got it's a Wednesday night. They do a chapel, you gotta wear like suits to chapel, you've got to shave every day. They give you like a one blade razor, right? The first day I'm there, I cut my face and it won't stop bleeding. I'm in a suit jacket where the sleeves are this short, right? Yeah. And the and but you gotta wear it. So I walk up there, man. The pants are too long but too big in the waist, and I've got a belt that's half broken, and I'm just you know, wearing somebody else's dirty dress shoes. I just looked like it is that and they introduce you, and it's like, oh yeah. And I'm bleeding, I mean, like just bleed, I couldn't get it to stop. I'm just bleeding, and I'm like, this is horrible. But the first Friday night I was there, I remember hearing Charles, he was the he was the manager there, the house manager speak, and I heard his story, man. And I'm like, you know what? Like that sounds exactly like my story. Maybe, maybe there's hope, right? I remember it was that first little glimmer of hope when I heard him talk about his three kids and in and up on the streets, and he had a great job, and you know, all the stuff. Now he's been clean for three years, and his wife's back in his life and his kids are back. He was telling all the stuff, and I'm like, oh my gosh, like that's a pretty cool story. Yeah, so maybe I can, you know, do this. I remember hearing that that first Friday. That kind of was the first thing. And then after the month, I was like, man, I'm kind of doing a lot better, you know. Like, I I I it's it's nice. So let's let's do this. So now I'm just kind of rolling with it, man. And then two months comes, and I guess some marshal in the area uh found out where I was that because I was still had a warrant out for that, and they called my brother because he's the intake coordinator and they said, Man, he's got to turn himself in, like, he's gotta go. And he's like, Can you at least let him finish for Orlando for the Florida thing, man?

SPEAKER_11: 2:06:27

Oh, they got their war, they got their extradition warrant.

SPEAKER_05: 2:06:29

They didn't get their extradition warrant, but Florida told this guy that he had to come find me and arrest me, the guy that was local. Yeah. And uh because they were planning on getting the extradition warrant. But at the time, so the prosecutor said, Go go get him. And he's like, I found out that he's in a rehab and all this kind of stuff. So my brother talked to him and just said, Hey man, can he stay and finish? He finally agreed, and so I agreed, all right, as soon as I finish this program, I'll go turn myself in on the warrant. Wow. So I did the program. How long was the program? Six months, yeah. And um, so I was six months sober, man. I graduated the program and all that kind of stuff. I went and turned myself in on the warrant. They released me on my own recognizance, even with the whole like supposed bail thing from the last time. But because I was going back to stay at the Salvation Army, they're like, all right, man. And so uh there it is. Now I gotta go to court every month and see if they're gonna extradite me. I don't have any money now, so I can't even go to Florida if I want to. And um, then I made the uh epically bad decision to not listen to any of their advice. You know, they'd say don't get a girlfriend, right? Don't do this. And my marriage is on is now over. We're headed for a divorce. And I uh look up at the table of a narcotics anonymous meeting, and I see this girl that I've never seen there before. And I look up and I'm like, Who's that? You know, like and she looks at me and I look at her, and I, you know, it's like one of those things. I don't have a phone yet or anything. I haven't graduated. I'm a couple days before graduation. This is how the enemy works, right? It's like you're right there. I'm I'm like scheduled to get uh baptized again at this church, and like I'm ready to like, all right, I'm gonna try and try and make this thing work, you know. I still wasn't all the way there. I still was smoking every chance I got and hiding nicotine in every uh uh you know place I could to get away with it while I was in this program, and you know, I was cussing every other word and all this kind of stuff. But um I was like, all right, at least I want to give it a go. And uh I meet this girl, and uh all of a sudden I get my phone back, like at the end of the whole program, and I have a Facebook messenger request or Facebook request from this girl. Yeah, she found out who I was and got it, so it was like from three days old, and she like we start talking to each other, and then all of a sudden, man, all I'm thinking about is talking to her. Right and I'm messaging her and I'm doing all the stuff, and now I'm graduated the program, and I um I find a job and I'm like, all right, I'm gonna get this thing moving, and now all I want to do, my plan was to stay at the Salvation Armies for as long as possible. Well, I figured out this court stuff. Now I want to move out because I want to be able to hang out with her, and you know, I want to get a new in Oxford. Where can I get an Oxford with a single room? And where can I, you know?

SPEAKER_11: 2:08:55

What's in Oxford?

SPEAKER_05: 2:08:56

Uh it's uh clean and sober, it's uh pretty living home. Yeah, sober living. They're all over the place. Pretty big one. It's secular, but uh they're all over the place. So I'm like thinking about how I'm gonna just get out. Now I'm not thinking about uh my relationship with Jesus, I'm not thinking about my recovery. All I'm thinking about is is her, uh, and not in the right ways, thinking about her, right?

SPEAKER_11: 2:09:17

What do they say? White, pink, and green, always straight, buddy.

SPEAKER_05: 2:09:21

And she uh she three weeks into the relationship, man, she was like, I got some money. You want to go get a hotel and and and go hang out in that way? And I was like, I didn't even think about it. I was like, Yep, yep, and there we go. And then that's all it was from that point on, man. And then she would always make comments, so many red flags about drugs and how it would be like so fun if we could do this and get high. Because she had a past of heroin use, intervenous drug use, meth, and all this kind of stuff. You wouldn't tell it by looking at her, man, but she did, and and um she was in a program. So when I met her, we were both in programs. That is uh top-notch uh material. She was in a uh program called Hope Place, which is Love You bro, you know, women and children, and she had a son, and uh, I'm meeting her at Narcotics Anonymous meetings, and I'm a disaster now at this point. And so I'm picking her up from her program, and and we're hanging out, and she'd get Saturdays free. We'd go get a hotel, and that's just it was stupid. So now that's that's that's all I'm living for, man. Is how can I uh just like uh do that? And uh it didn't uh didn't go very well because it she was always mentioning drugs, man, and and uh I found out that she wasn't even really sober, she was like sneaking Kratom and doing all these things, you know, that we do when we're in these programs to get away with the drug test. And um I uh didn't pay any attention to any of the red flags. And then at a year and a day of sobriety at that time, I had a dentist thing where I had a tooth, man, that was all out of whack. Woke up, my face was swollen.

SPEAKER_07: 2:10:44

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 2:10:45

When I went to the dentist, I didn't tell him the truth and tell him I was in recovery, I took the Vicodin. And it I didn't fall off a cliff right then, but that opened the door. And I was doing kratom or using suboxin or getting vicodin when I could. Kratom is like an herb that uh has the effects of opiates that you can buy at any smoke shop you want to. Wow. But you have to do insanely large amounts of it and it makes your stomach hurt, but it actually gets you really uh like opioid high and it has withdrawals just like them, and you can buy it at any smoke shop. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_10: 2:11:12

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_05: 2:11:12

Yeah, it's all over the place, and um it's it's legal, but like now uh rehabs are testing for it because it's like people are getting kind of like spice was from marijuana, kind of yeah, wow, that's crazy. So, yeah, it's a it's a Chinese herb or something like that, and they have like the red kind that gets you super zooted, and the green kind that gets you a little bit more like wired awake, and it's uh good old Chinese. Yeah, so we were doing all that kind of stuff, man, and then all of a sudden we decide let's get meth. Oh and I'm living in a clean and sober, and so she's living in a good this is a good idea. Yeah, let's do this. Dang! And so, you know, we go on a week run, and um I end up having to leave my clean and sober house, and she ends up having to leave the apartment that she had gotten to after her program. So, in just one week, right? You just it's all up in arms. Now I gotta go um I gotta go uh live with my brother and all these types of things. And um, let me backtrack. Let me backtrack before that happened, right? At about uh I I was going back to court for that warrant, right? And I told you I turned myself in and then I had to go to court every month. At month one, I showed up and she's like, they're not gonna extradite you, my lawyer. And I'm like, cool. And I I at this point had gotten a better job uh back in sales, and even though I had the warrants and stuff, I told him the truth, and this place still hired me, even though I had the crazy, crazy stuff going on, because he's like, Well, you told the truth and your your background check lined up with it, so we're gonna give you a shot. And I'm like, All right, because I told him I'd just gotten out of rehab. So I'd gotten a good job and moved into a nice Oxford house, and so this is where I was at it about seven, eight months sober. I kind of skipped ahead in the relationship with her. So then um I I am um about to go to court on my way to work, just like normal, expecting just to check in. And I show up and I had already talked to the lawyer the day before in the morning, and she said, You're good. And I showed up, she's like, Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. Last night the governor's warrant came in for your arrest. And I'm like, Can I go to the bathroom? Because I'm like, I'm gonna run, right? That's my plan. And she's like, sure, but that guy over there has to follow you because you're you're in the custody now. I'm like, oh man, that sucks. So I get arrested and spend 30 days in county, and I get extradited to uh Orlando Orange County jail. I was in two different jails charge, yeah, for$120 for parapets. I was I was in two different jails on two different coasts in the same day. I literally woke up in Seattle in jail and then uh went to bed in Orlando. Wow. Um, and yeah, so the actual charge was petty theft, but then Florida doesn't mess around when it comes to theft. So because I knew that it was stolen and took it to the pawn shop, they charged me with uh trafficking stolen goods. Oh wow, which is like worse than Grand Theft Auto. It's a class two felony. So it could come with automatic time and all that kind of stuff. I didn't really have a record, so that that helped. Yeah. But then the second one they charged me with was a class three felony, which was a um a false verification of ownership to a pawn broker. So they sent your fake ID. Yeah, they sent two marshals to uh Seattle who then came and extradited me. I was on a plane handcuffed in the front with the fake, you know, no sleeves on. Like all the stewardesses knew that I was uh a felon being transported. I was the last person on the 8 a.m. Delta flight, right? The flight that I used to take for work things on the morning. Now there I am uh in shackles, right? With a thr with a one-month jail beard, because I'm not shaving with the razors and the crappy little bar of soap they give you or whatever. No thanks. Uh I want to stay as far away from those bathrooms for as long as possible, as humanly possible. So there I am, man. It's pretty obvious. And uh they don't know why you're wanted, they think you're uh dangerous. Yeah, right. They need to. Yeah. Because if you are, right? So I've got one Marshal in front of me, they look like Marshalls, man. And uh they kind of realize like about halfway through the flight, like, I don't think this guy is really that serious. They ordered me a movie and uh then they asked if I wanted anything to eat at the airport when we got there, and they got me pizza. Yeah, and then they get to book me, and uh, because I'm being polite the whole time, like sorry, sir, ma'am, it was a dude and a girl, and I, you know, I'm not telling them anything about what had happened, but I think they just kind of like they started. I saw their demeanor change. We get to the Orange County jail, and the the marshal looks at me and he goes, Headphones? I came all the way to get you for some headphones. And I was like, Yep. What were you doing last week? And he was like, I was chasing down a murderer in Puerto Rico. I'm like, Oh, cool, how was Seattle? How was the trip? I guess I'm paying for it. Where'd you stay? Did you see anything? You know, I was just being myself. Yeah. And uh he was laughing. That's hilarious. He was just laughing, and he's like, I was like, is that funny enough to get me out of going to jail? And he's like, No, no, you're going to jail. It cost him more money to come get you than it did for the I'm I'm thinking, man, I'm stuck, right? I'm stuck here. I don't have$8,500 cash. And now I'm in Florida, so I can't even do 10% or anything because I don't have a residence there. So they want$8,500 cash. And I'm like, I don't know nobody like that, right? And so I'm just thinking, I'm stuck there until I have court, and I'm gonna get to the end of it, and they're gonna be like, all right, time served. Yeah, and then all of a sudden at three in the morning, I get uh uh Nolan roll it up, man, the best thing to possibly hear, right? Yeah, and my uncle, my brother had called my uncle, and if there was anybody who could have got me out, it would be him, and he bailed me out, man. He put all 8,500 bucks on his credit card. Wow. There I am in the streets of Orlando at three in the morning, and uh my phone's dead, I don't have my wallet because my brother had to come to King County jail and get the keys to my car because it was in a pay-to-park place. Uh I'm like, come get my car else, it's gonna get towed. I gotta go to, I'm going, I'm getting extradited. And so, since my wallet was with uh, you know, with uh keys, he had they give him the whole bag. Yeah, so I'm calling him at three in the morning, he's texting me pictures of my ID, and I find I finally cash app myself or cash app the the bail bondsman that got me out money, and he drives to Wells Fargo and gets me some cash. And I found a travel lodge that would take cash and a text ID. Um I got out of jail. I bought like three packs of cigarettes, and I'm just Uber eats and all the McDonald's I can get, you know, just whatever. I'm just like, I just want to eat and smoke cigarettes. That was all I wanted to do. Not in jail. Yeah, I'm like, I'm good. And I don't even I can't even believe it. So I ended up leaving. So I I go back and me and her are together, and I told you, you know, her and I, her and I relapsed, and I had a I had a future court date in Florida. So all that extradition happened around like February or March. I had a court date for August. Her and I get high in July. That story I just told you about math. And then I gotta go stay with my brother, and they know court's coming up, and so I'm like, man, I gotta get my stuff together. This is stupid. She has to go live with her her dad, and and that was just a one-time, you know, so like it was like the Vikodon.

SPEAKER_01: 2:17:45

Oh, you're talking this now. We're at the girl with it, okay.

SPEAKER_05: 2:17:49

Intersect back in that story. I've got back up to Seattle, and so that that happened at like the seven-month sober mark, right? Eight-month sober mark. Now I'm I like I got to a year sober, June of 2019, and then uh, and then I took the Vicodin, and we're doing the Kratom and all that, and then July we get high on meth, man, and all this crazy stuff happens. I ended up in the hospital, and like uh my car breaks down, you know, all the all the things that happen. It's stuck in a hospital parking garage, and and uh just it breaks down because she didn't get gas in it, and it was a an Audi and an old Audi, and the gas pump just totally crapped out. So it was all because she didn't put gas in it, but whatever. The car breaks down, you know, and it's gonna be a serious fix to get it fixed. And I'm in the hospital because I got so twacked, I just went out of my gourd and ended up just just uh on a sick one, right?

SPEAKER_01: 2:18:39

Lost it, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 2:18:40

And I and they give me an Ada van to calm me down, and there we are again. And so I'm at my brother's and I'm planning to get ready to go to Orlando to do this court thing, and my uncle had helped me, he was a Salvation Army officer, so he got me a place to stay with the Salvation Army down there, he got me a flight down there, he got somebody to pick me up and got me right down from the courthouse. Like, literally, here you are, boom, go to court. I pled out on that. I got 18 months probation. Uh, no felony stuck on my record, but I had to do felony probation, right? Where um and I got it transferred up to Seattle so I could do probation up there because I'm like, all my kids are up here, I'd rather be up here. And uh that was all I got, man. They they forgot to charge me for the extradition. I paid six hundred and fifty dollars in fines and got 18 months probation. That's crazy. Yeah, so I really went to Florida on vacation and I left on probation, as they say, right?

SPEAKER_01: 2:19:28

That's what they say for Arizona.

SPEAKER_05: 2:19:30

I went there for a job, but when I first went to visit, it was on vacation. I'm like, oh yeah, this place is good. We can move here. So uh so yeah, man, uh there I am, right? And uh I'm I'm about a I'm a I I got to a year sober, but broke down. We did the meth. Uh, and I didn't really do anything else after that. But when I went for that court date, man, I didn't tell anybody this. Uh I didn't even admit this probably for the first time until I did my own podcast, right? And and talked about my story. But I drank there. I went to a bar and I had a couple drinks, man, and then uh that was the night before the court date. I got all just like nervous. I didn't know what was gonna happen, I didn't know if they were gonna give me a good deal. I had no idea what was on the table. And uh and I drank. And uh and I went to court, man, and and ended up back in Seattle. There I am, my my probation gets transferred. Um I uh I still can't really find a job outside of you know restaurants and and construction. So that's kind of how I made a living for a little while. I got a job at a breakfast restaurant, uh, guy that I had met at an Oxford. Um, you know, I I I'm working at this breakfast restaurant, I go get the court thing taken care of. I come back from Florida and I get a random call because of my LinkedIn, and I get offered this just killer job as a director of client solutions for this uh IT consulting and staffing firm where I work from home and it paid a six-figure salary and commission and everything on top of it. Nice. Wow. And I took it and it was like, yep. And uh I was I was determined to get back on track from a sobriety perspective and uh and wasn't really doing anything. I was on probation and actually had to go do P tests, right? And I even tried to take some Suboxin that wasn't prescribed, and they found it in my P and they're like, Man, if you come back and pop dirty for this again, you're going to jail. And I'm like, all right, never mind, man, I'm good. And so I was I was doing my P test every week and I got off everything and I was like, all right, I'm back on track. I moved back uh out of my brother's into a clean and sober, right? And I'm like, all right, I'm gonna be all right. And I took this job and I started doing it, started doing well, man, and uh and started making really good money and uh got it set up to where I was gonna get my own place. Um and she wasn't that same girlfriend still around. She wasn't gonna um she wasn't gonna move in with me, but I was gonna get my own place, and then maybe eventually we'd move in together. But at that time I was just gonna get my own spot.

SPEAKER_11: 2:21:49

Was she clean?

SPEAKER_05: 2:21:49

Uh she was I thought she was. Yeah. Right. And uh I found out uh that she wasn't. Um but we I get this place, and then COVID hits. And everything goes shut down. Yeah, right, and then something crazy happens with her nephew, and he needs a place to go. So I'm like, he can come stay here. But I'm like, you gotta come stay here too. Yeah. Because I'm not gonna be here with your eight-year-old nephew that doesn't even know me, and I'm working and doing a bunch of stuff. You gotta come here. She wasn't working, so her and her son move in, and her nephew moves in. Now I'm living with her and and two kids, right? Oh, jeez. And um, and she starts getting weird, and she like took my car one night in the middle of the night, took my debit card, took a hundred bucks out, you know, that kind of stuff, and you know, tried to gaslight me and act like it really didn't happen. I'm like, I'm looking at the bank account right here. Uh the only person, you know, like come on, man. Yeah. So I start sleeping with my keys and my wallet and my pillow, but she's still getting the stuff out of there, man. I'm a heavy sleeper, I guess. And so um she started doing blues and then she started shooting up. Oh, geez. And I was like over her, and she was supposed to go to Nashville or uh or Memphis to see her her kids because she had older kids too, and and go to her ex-husband's. So I'm like, when she leaves for that, man, I'm done with this relationship. I'm over it, I'm done. That was the plan. And I'm still on probation, so I'm not gonna do any drugs. But with COVID, man, it got a lot easier. And now my probation officer's taking text messages, he can't see me in person. Yeah, I there's no drug tests. And then I had a thing go down with my ex-wife when my son was supposed to come stay with me, where it didn't work out, and I just had a night, man, where I was all depressed, and I was like, What's the point? If I can't even see my kids, what's the point? Right, and I I could get all poor me with the best of them. Oh, yeah. And that's what happened. I uh went home and I was like, What do you got? And there it is, man. We did some meth and we did some blues, and that was that your first time doing blues?

SPEAKER_01: 2:23:42

Yep.

SPEAKER_05: 2:23:42

That started that started the worst two-year run of addiction that I've ever had in my life. A month later, I shot up for the first time in my life at the age of 40. I'd never done it, but she's doing it all the time. I'm like, man, what's the what's the thing? Let me see what we're up to. What's this about? Do it for me. And uh now I'm I'm shooting up, and uh, I loved cocaine, and so I started shooting up cocaine with heroin. So I'm shooting up heroin and cocaine together. Speed balls, speed balls, but didn't have enough money for the cocaine. I'd mix meth in or just buy meth, you know, whatever you could do. But I got this job where I'm getting paid fat, right? And it's COVID, and I don't have to go to any real meetings with people. Yeah. The last meeting I had to go to was in eastern Washington. I drove over there, I shot up in the parking lot, rolled my sleeves down, and went and closed a deal and was like done. Yeah. And uh like got got a contract. So I was helping them build their business, and they were like, whatever, man. You know, like I I if I had a bad day or if I'm doing drugs, I just turned the camera off on Zoom. I'm like, I don't know what's up with my computer, man. So I'm getting getting on all these calls, doing what I'm supposed to do, but I don't have to meet anybody in person. Wow. Her and I, though, we're on a sick one, man, and and uh it was so bad, man. I uh after she went to Tennessee, I drove all the way down to pick her up. We got high the whole way back. We stopped in Albuquerque, got heroin, stopped in Arizona and Phoenix, met some guy named Joe with no teeth, and got heroin and and cocaine and meth and whatever we could, and we're traveling and we're doing stupid things, and now we're stealing stuff, and we're you know, I don't even need to. I've got plenty of money, but like when I'm high on like meth and shoot up, I'm just it was almost like a fun thing for me to do stupid things. We get up to Seattle, man, and and we're living that life, you know, um anything that you could possibly imagine that would happen. Uh ODs, I OD'd multiple times. Wow. Um, arrests, uh, all that kind of stuff. I evaded the cops and they had to break down a door and pull me out of a bathroom where I'd done all my drugs and I was so high I couldn't even couldn't even really like stand up. And I remember um yeah, I so me and my ex-girlfriend get into a fight and she throws a TV at me, right? And it I blocked it with my arm, cut my arm. And I she would always try to provoke me to do things, and I'm like, I'm not a person that's going to physically harm you in any way. I know your ex did, and I don't know if you're into it or whatever, but she would always push. This this chick would push. Yeah, like I don't know if she felt loved or something because of it, but like her ex she said was super abusive. And I started to think, man, I don't know if he was the abusive one because like you're pretty abusive, right? She threw a TV at me, like cut me. Yeah, and I even went and bought drugs later that night. My drug dealer's like, You need to leave her. Like, she's you know, like your arms bleeding and stuff. And it was like a boyfriend, girlfriend that I bought drugs from, and the girl was like, You gotta leave that relationship. That doesn't seem healthy. So it was bad. It was just we were we we were it was bad, right? And um, it was as bad as you could possibly imagine. But I went to go uh uh get a new TV and I didn't want to buy anything at that time. I went into Walmart to steal a TV. I didn't just steal one, I stole two like 65-inch TVs and shoved them at the bottom of the cart, and there I am just walking out, you know, like I always do. And a manager's walking next to me, and he's like, Sir, sir, sir. And I'm like, what? And then a TV falls out the bottom. One of the people who work there doesn't realize what's going on. They pick it up and put it back in my cart. I'm like, thank you. I keep walking. He's like, I'm gonna call the cops. I'm like, what are you gonna do? At that point, I was walking out of stores with stuff. It was COVID in Seattle, they're not chasing you. I'm like, okay, yeah, the cops aren't gonna come here. You know, I'm basically double middle fingering the guy. And I walk out with my TVs and I throw them in the bed of my truck. Because at the time I had a Silverado, and I throw them in the bed of my truck. I'm parked in handicapped, right? Because I got to be right out front. And I and I and I go to cut out. But what I didn't know is there's never a cop in the cop spot at the Walmart. But this night there was a cop. Oh, Jesus. And I had just botten, bottom, it's not even a word. I had just purchased uh like$1,500 worth of drugs. I had a vial full of cocaine on me, like a big one. I had um I had blues, I had heroin, I had uh some Xanax pro I had I had like every kind of drug.

SPEAKER_01: 2:27:40

Oh god.

SPEAKER_05: 2:27:41

And then in Seattle, it was it was like it was kind of on the brink of being legal, but not really yet. So we no, we weren't really sure like what it was, but also I just spent all that money on drugs, man. I'm not giving it to a cop and then going to jail. Yeah. So when he lights me up, man, I realize I'm gonna go and I cut out and I'm doing 70 through a neighborhood. I lose this cop in two minutes, and then I go right back to my apartment like an idiot where my truck's registered. But all I'm gonna do is I'm gonna dump most of my drugs, take some with me, go tweak in the woods and wait for this to blow over, right? But I decide to shoot up and it takes me an hour. And then when I open the door, you know, the apartments with the two stairs that come up on both sides, there's a cop coming with a gun on each side, and I look and go noop and I dive back in to the apartment, lock the door, and I'm like, all right, looks like we're doing all these drugs now. Yeah. I lock myself in the bathroom because in my mind I'm like, they got to get a warrant for the front door and they got to get a warrant for the bathroom. Not true. Once they're in, they're in. But that was my thought. So I lock myself in the bathroom and I'm laying there in the bathtub and I'm smoking every blue I got. I'm shooting up all the heroin and the cocaine that I'm so high. Damn, right I had iced tea next to me, and I was trying to pour it into my face to drink water. I mean, to drink the iced tea, and I'm missing my face, and just I'm soaked in iced tea. Hot, I should probably probably should have killed me. Yeah. And I'm just waiting. Cops are out there pounding on my door, calling my phone for three to four hours. The entire apartment complex is out in the parking lot. There's other police places from other cities, like in there. There's there's sheriffs all over, like everywhere, man. And uh there I am in my bathtub. And I finally let them, I let them get to the point where they got the warrant. They broke the door down with the thing. Yeah, and then I was like, all right, all right, all right, I'll come out. And I come out, and I remember seeing all the cops, and I put my hands up right behind my head, and there was a mirror in the hallway, and I was like, This is awesome. That's what I thought. They put me on the ground, they put the knee on the back of my neck. And it really is hard to breathe when a cop's but I'm just kind of laughing. I was just too I was gone at this point. And the cop that I lost, you know, uh comes up to me. He's like, I'm taking this one in, you know, like big tough guy. And we're in the parking lot. He's like, You see that car over there? I'm like, Yeah. He's like, That's the cop, you know, that's the car that you ran from. And I go like this, I go, Oh, the poor police car, man. It to big old truck. I did that. Got away from him. And he's like, he tightened my handcuffs tighter. He took my phone. He's like, evidence took my key, like whatever he could. I'm like, you're taking my phone. He's like, it'll prove your coordinates. Or it was just to be a jerk, man. Yeah, but he threw me in the back of the car, man. I go to jail. But at this time I was getting methadone at the methadone clinic, so I didn't care. They gave me methadone in jail, and I'm like, this is gonna be the best jail experience of my life. And then two days later, they say, Nolan, roll it up. My uncle had bailed me out again. Oh, Jesus. Which I wish he wouldn't have because I I told I just didn't even call anybody. I was like, whatever, I'm just gonna roll this one out. Because my uh ex-girlfriend or girlfriend at the time called him. I'm like, don't call my uncle. I'm like, you don't even know him. Why did you do that? I'm like, I did this. This was this is bad. Yeah, and they ended up because of COVID, it wasn't violent. They dropped the charges. Oh, Jesus. I didn't get charged with anything. Wow. I never got that phone back. And I stopped calling the prosecutor to try and get it back because somebody's like, Why are you doing that? You're just bringing up your case over and over again. Just shut up, dude. It's just a stupid phone, go get a new one. I'm like, yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. Um, never got the car back though. Um, that car got impounded, and um, and the funny thing is, is all the stolen stuff, because before I went to the Walmart to get the TVs, I had stolen a bunch of stuff from Target. So the whole cab was full of stolen stuff from Target. They gave me all the stuff from the cab back. Oh, geez because the charge was for the TVs and the and the thing. So I got all that stuff back, but I didn't, I didn't, but I lost the TVs, that was it. And um, they kept the car. I saw pictures of it, the whole back of the lights were bashed, and I know I didn't do that, so I think the cops did that. They were mad at me. And I was um I was like, all right, whatever, uh financed before I stopped making the payments on it, I'll just go get another car and just let that one go. And I never saw that car again. So, anyways, that's the kind of stuff that was going on. Dang, bro. The addiction got so bad. Yeah, I got to the point where I never thought I was gonna be sober again. Um, and it was bad. And then all of a sudden in October, I uh I do some uh meth that sends me on just a sick psychosis run, and I think all this crazy stuff's happening. I go to Verizon, get a new phone, swap my phone numbers, change phones. You know, I'm just being weird. Yeah, I uh call my work and tell them they need to change my passwords and all the stuff, and then I change my number, but I don't give them my new number, my boss. And then I disappear for two weeks. And I thought it was three days. And so I missed all these meetings at work, I missed all this stuff, and then all of a sudden I come to and realize I'm in Oregon somewhere.

SPEAKER_10: 2:32:18

Oh, Jesus.

SPEAKER_05: 2:32:19

And uh being the ex-girlfriend and gotten to another fight. I I basically had the point where all my bags were packed, and whenever we'd fight, I'm like, I'm out of here, I'm out of here. I'm not fighting, I'm not getting into I'm not getting another TV thrown at me. I'm I'm out of here, right? And so I kind of came to in Oregon, and I and I thought I was gone for like three days. I was gone for two weeks, man. Wow. So uh I came to come back, call my boss, and he's like, dude, you call me the day before your payday when you disappeared for two weeks. He had called my daughter, I guess, and my dad looking for me, trying to figure out what was going on. Um, and yeah, man. Can I pause this for a second? Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, go ahead, bro.

SPEAKER_01: 2:32:55

Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_05: 2:32:57

Realize that would be best.

SPEAKER_01: 2:32:58

Yeah, it's it's crazy how addiction can just get you, brother. It uh it steals your mind from you.

SPEAKER_11: 2:33:05

Yeah, man. What's crazy is how we justify going back to it.

SPEAKER_01: 2:33:11

How we keep telling ourselves it's okay. Yeah, it's not that bad. Yeah, not as bad as that person.

SPEAKER_10: 2:33:17

That's crazy, bro.

SPEAKER_01: 2:33:18

Dang.

SPEAKER_10: 2:33:20

I don't know how that dude's alive.

SPEAKER_01: 2:33:21

Yeah, it's but like you said, when we started grace and mercy.

SPEAKER_10: 2:33:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 2:33:25

So he was talking about how he doesn't know if he was saved when he was five or not. Oh, yeah. Oh yeah, he was. Oh, yeah, he was, but that's the only way you got through everything that you made it through, buddy. Oh, yeah, man. Was by God's hand being on your life, man. Yeah, all the way through his story. All I hear is just favor. Yeah, with his jobs and dip doors opening and opportunities coming. I'm like, man, God's just been taking care of you your whole life, bro.

SPEAKER_11: 2:33:54

Yeah, he has and protecting him. Protecting him. I don't know why that dude should still be alive. I don't know. Jesus.

SPEAKER_00: 2:34:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 2:34:04

If any of you guys are out there and you know somebody who is just gone, get him into a salvation army, get him into a teen challenge. There is hope for him. There is, there is. His name is Jesus. Yeah, don't give up on him. If you have given up on them, and you probably have every right to have been pushed to a point to give up on them. Start praying for them. If you if you don't want to get into their lives and get them the help they need, start praying for them.

SPEAKER_05: 2:34:36

Amen.

SPEAKER_11: 2:34:37

We were just talking about how to listen to your story, brother, that you can just hear God's mercy and grace all over your life, bro. And he said something just a second ago that you weren't sure if you were saved at five or not. You had to have been, brother. Yeah. For God to protect you the way he did, and and to even said the favor that you had with the jobs and everything like that.

SPEAKER_01: 2:34:57

All these doors and opportunities God was just providing for you.

SPEAKER_05: 2:35:01

All day, man. And um, you know, this this experience though, where we were at, right? And and and just the arrest and the craziness of that life, man, it it didn't get any better. And then um, yeah, but God's mercy and and grace was all over my life. My dad even said that to me once. Um, we talked on the phone, he's like, man, I've never seen God's grace and mercy in somebody's life so much. He's like, but it's gonna get to the point where you're gonna you're gonna run out, man. You need to take that seriously, right? And uh wasn't quite there yet, even at that point. But yeah, man, this um losing this job was kind of like the the bottom point of this addiction because we as long as I had that job, I was like, all right, we had money stuff, got money. And even though I was doing all the stupid stuff with stealing and all that stuff, that was just gave us even more money. Like, we could we we we bought we could buy a lot of drugs, and like I became my drug dealer's best friends, and I had multiple ones, man. They would come deliver to the house and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01: 2:35:55

Like, they up to this point. I haven't heard you like selling dope. Oh, no, no, everything you you were just buying to use, buying and using it. Yeah, you always had a good job picking up to sell it, bro.

SPEAKER_05: 2:36:06

So I um yeah, man. So that this I ended up losing that job. They they let me go, man, and and I'm like, man, this is this is the beginning of the end. I just kind of knew it. And I got super uh depressed and was ready just to end it. I was ready to commit suicide. I had decided that I was done at that point because I'm like, I know where this is headed, I'm just gonna die this way. I can't stop using drugs. Now I'm losing my job, now I'm gonna end up homeless. Like, I already knew where it was headed. So I'm like, I don't want to do it that way. I'm just gonna I'm just gonna do enough drugs to where I just drift off into oblivion. And I had decided that that was the case, man. And I got a text from my little brother, right, who's a Christian who's been clean, the one who uh the intake coordinator, he's been clean since 2013. He's now a pastor, and um, he texted me randomly and didn't know all the stuff was going on. And he texted me a Bible verse about there being uh you know Romans 8.1, therefore there's no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, and just says, I'm checking on you, making sure you're okay. And I lost it. Oh, wow. And um still do cut and stay because it's like I was done. God was just using, yeah. And and he texted me, and that text was like, All right, man, I'm okay. All right, I'm gonna keep pushing. But the the the addiction got so bad, man. I mean her now, I was able to collect unemployment from losing the job somehow. So I got unemployment coming in, and it was at COVID time, so I it was like it was it was unemployment on steroids, right? But so now just the debauchery is just at a ridiculous level. And we get to 2022, man, and I go into that year just like the addiction's getting worse and worse and worse. And I got to the point where I was like, man, I don't know what I'm gonna do anymore. And I started getting down on my knees every night and praying and just saying, God, I need you to miraculously deliver me from this, or I'm gonna die. I need to die or I need to be freed from this. And I started getting down on my knees every night, and it wasn't like I woke up the next morning, I was up for 12 days at a time, right? Just so there I am praying. I started listening to Christian music, right? Worship music, and I'm just I'm bumping it. And I hear this song by Hillsong Young and Free called Freedom's Coming. And I hear that it's freedom's coming, and his name is Jesus, or something like that, right? Um, I I listen to it, and all of a sudden I just feel like I think I'm gonna be free, and I think this is finally gonna go away, and I'm gonna be done. And I remember saying to my ex, like, I think Jesus is gonna free me from my addiction finally. I heard this song, I couldn't stop listening to the song, and I'm twacked, you know. I'm watching uh worship stuff, I'm watching pastors, and I'm watching stuff on addiction, but I'm just I'm twacked, and I'm doing the stupidest stuff, but I could, I was just like, I felt like, man, if I just maybe if I watch enough of this stuff, maybe it'll change something. But it it didn't immediately, and I'd still get high every day and all this stuff. And then all of a sudden, in May of 2022, this is just a few months later, right? Uh, I'd been praying almost every night. Just God, just like I need a miracle. I don't even know what to do anymore. I need to die. One of the two things needs to happen. My ex decides she's gonna go see her kids again, and I paid for it gladly. I'm like, let's get you out of here. And your and your son, because he's in this all this debauchery, the poor kid, man. So she's going to Tennessee. She's now that now her family, her ex-husband and her kids have moved to like New York, like New Jersey. She's gonna go for like their prom or something. I was like, fine, go. And when she goes, I'd gotten to the point where I was done again, man. I was gonna die. I was gonna just commit suicide via drug overdose. And I bought everything that I needed, man. Xanax and heroin, you're done, right? You take enough Xanax and you shoot up. I had already done it on accident once, and I fell face down in the bed, like needle in hand, and I was out, man. Just and I'd taken Xanax four hours earlier. So I'm like, if I if I do a Xanax bar and then I shoot up enough heroin, I'm gonna die. So that was the plan. That was the plan. And I had so many drugs, I spent all the money that I basically had left. My unemployment was at its at its end. It had been about six months since I had started filing unemployment because I lost my job in October, started filing in November or whatever. So I was right, it's May. I'm I'm about done, about to get my last unemployment payment. I buy a bunch of drugs, and I had lost my car because if you don't make the payments on it, they repo it. Did you guys know that?

SPEAKER_09: 2:40:12

Yeah, yes, sir.

SPEAKER_05: 2:40:14

And so there's another car after I'd lost the other car. So we're now on foot, right? And I can't get a car and I don't have a job. And so um, I get all these drugs and I got my backpack on like a normal tweaker. Yeah. And we go into this Fred Meyer, which is kind of like the fries of Seattle and uh the Northwest. And I've stolen so much out of the store, man, like so many times. And so I decide well, even though I just decided I'm gonna end it, I was like, man, I'm out of money. I'm gonna need money. That's all I'm thinking. So I need to steal some stuff to add to the stolen stuff I have back at the apartment so I can sell some things. So I fill up the cart, man, with well over a thousand dollars worth of stuff. I just walk out. But now I don't have a car. So I'm pushing this cart, man, and this guy's cussing me out on the way out. I'm like, yeah, what are you gonna do? And now I'm pushing the cart. I got to go across the major highway. I go behind a safeway and I see the entrance to my apartment complex. I'm like, if I can just get there, I can stash this cart and then go back and get it later. Four Both police just swoop in, right? And there I am with the cart, you know. And I got all those drugs in my backpack because I'm a dummy and I didn't leave them at the house. I got them with me because you got to keep them on you because she might steal them if I leave them at the house or whatever, you know. And they uh they they go, um, you know, sir, what are you what are you doing? And I was like, I was just shopping over at Fred Meyer, you know, blah. They're like, You got a receipt? And I reached in my pocket, I actually had a receipt in my pocket, not for the stuff, for the day before I'd bought like a Starbucks coffee thing. I was surprised that I even actually bought something because at this point in the time I was pretty much stealing everything. Yeah, it's right here. And they look at it and they laugh and they're like, Good try. And I was like, Well, I had to at least try. And they're like, We're just confirming that it's you on the thing, you know, it looks like you've stolen some stuff. Do you want to tell us anything? And I was like, Well, let's just wait for the let's wait for the tape to come back. And they're like, Yeah, we confirmed it. I'm like, oh yeah, that sucks. So they put me, cuff me, throw me in the back of the car. And I'm like, Man, I'm pretty toast right now, right? And there's enough stuff in the cart for felony theft. I have my girlfriend's ID in my in my backpack, uh, which they were gonna charge me with attempted identity theft, even though I was like, I know her, and they're like, that's what everybody says. Yeah, and then I had so many drugs and so many bags that it's really hard to get charged with drug possession, but they were gonna charge me with possession with intent to distribute. And also, I don't have the intent to distribute these drugs to anybody but myself. So I don't know. And they were like, All right, but I got the cops laughing and they joked about how, like, maybe you know, you should have ran. And I'm like, man, I'm 40 something years old now. I'm not gonna run from you guys, right? You're gonna catch me. And they're laughing, they're like, We wish you would have ran, and you know, they're joking. Make her give us a fun day. I always usually had good times with cops and getting them to laugh, except the one that you know I made fun of was carried. Don't piss them off, man. Man, but this is I'm telling the story in detail because this is uh this is a big time God story, right? Um, so cops are there, and I'm in the back of the car, they're pulling out all these drugs, and I see them just looking like, what is happening? Like drug after drug. I had meth in you know, six different bags. It's like this one I like the best, and this one I like the least, and you know, this is the cocaine that I like the best.

SPEAKER_00: 2:43:12

It was oh yeah, it was stupid. Addiction.

SPEAKER_05: 2:43:14

Yeah, and just all the stupid stuff they're gonna find in a tweaker's backpack. And but I had so many drugs, and I had a bag of like 50 or 100 blues or something. It was insane. I'd bought a lot of drugs, and uh and they were like, Man, we're gonna charge you with intent to distribute felony theft, and I'm like, I'm done. They're like, so that we drive back over to the Fred Meyer and uh I'm just sitting there like thinking, crap, I wasn't supposed to get in any trouble because of the Florida thing. Now those two felonies are gonna come in play, plus they're gonna charge me with three felonies. The identity theft thing will probably get worked out because they'll at least be able to verify it's somebody I know. So I'm probably facing four to five felonies, including the stuff coming back up from Florida. I'm screwed, I'm going to prison for a long time. Wow. I'm sitting in the back of the car and I start yelling at the ceiling, right? I'm yelling at God, right? And I'm like, fine, fine, if this is what if this is what I gotta do to get sober, if I've got to go to prison for three years or five years, fine. And then I said these words. I said, I want your will for my life, God, not mine. Wow. It's crazy. And then, like, literally within 10 seconds, the back door pops open to the cop car. And they said, Mr. Nolan, I said, Yes, they said, uh, you're free to go. And I'm like, What? And I'm like, is this the part where I get out and grab my stuff and you guys wanted to chase me and now you're chasing me? They were like, Absolutely uh not. Actually, what happened was is right over there is the owner of this Fred Meyer, uh, and he heard that you lost your job back in October and blah blah blah, and he doesn't want to press charges. I have stolen so much from this place. He should want, like, they should my picture was probably up, right? Like, I can't even tell you how many times I went there and would like bust out the garden center and set off the alarm and be like, oop, I'm gone. You know, like so bad. He they they say he doesn't want to press charges, and then like we called and verified the ID is hers. We got a hold of her, and we have an emergency call down the street, so we're just gonna take your drugs and not charge you. And I was like, Wow, so there I am, scot-free. I was just facing five felonies, and I said the words, I want your will for my life, God, not mine, and the car door popped open, the cops let me go. And now I don't have any drugs to kill myself, right? I got a hold of my dealer and traded some stuff for like a little bit of meth and some blues, but I don't have drugs anymore, man. And I just I'm like, oh right, now I'm trying to figure out how am I gonna hustle up some stuff and figure some things out. And um, and you know, my girlfriend at the time's now in in New York, and uh, all right, here's another funny story that I I never thought I'd tell people, but uh what the heck, why not?

SPEAKER_01: 2:45:47

Um these are usually the good ones.

SPEAKER_05: 2:45:49

I shoot up a ton of meth and psychosis again, and now I think the cops are gonna come after me for that same thing I just talked to. I swear they're gonna come after me. But I think that if I get rid of my phone, that it will fix everything because I think no evidence, no crime. And I'm like, I don't know why I thought the evidence for it was on my phone, but this is you know how our minds work when we're gonna mind. I had a buddy of mine tell me that he turned himself into the cops out in the street with his hands up and there was nobody there when he came out of his house, right? So I'm trying to avoid the cops. I shoot up all this meth. I'm in rough shape, and I think, okay, I gotta get rid of my phone. I snap my phone over my knee and I start trying to flush it down the toilet. And in the process of doing that, because I'm using a hammer to try and flush it and like shove it down the toilet, break and break the toilet, and now the side and it's flooding over the sides, and I'm trying to grab the thing and remember to every time I flush, but I forget it and it spills over the side, and I've got a vape in one hand and I reach into the thing and I kill it. I'm like, ah, throw it and grab another one. I'm trying to vape and do all this at the same time. So twacked. And uh I I flood the neighbors below us downstairs bathroom. The guy from maintenance shows up. I think he's the cops, and I'm like, oh sorry, clog the toilet, rough one, you know. Like I'm like just tweaking and I'm like, oh man, what am I gonna do? The cops are outside the cop. I'm trying feverishly to not bring the cops to me, but guess what? I just did. I bring the cops to me. They call the cops, and I'm twacked. Now my fingers are bloody, the toilet seats on the floor, the whole bathroom's flooded. I got needles all over the place. Oh, wow. It was just like it looked, it looked bad. Yeah. And the cops knock on the door, I open the door, what do I do? I let them in.

SPEAKER_02: 2:47:21

Oh, geez.

SPEAKER_05: 2:47:22

I'm trying to hide from the cops and flush my phone. Now that I actually bring the cops to myself and I let them in. They look around, uh, they end up telling me that I gotta go, right? And they take my key to my apartment. Yeah. I show back up and I'm evicted, right? They're they're like, they've been trying to get rid of me for a while after the door being broken down and all the stuff. They're like, this guy's gotta go. Yeah. And um, I end up out on the streets of Seattle with no drugs, no phone, no money. Wow. And it's like sideways raining. It's May, but it's like 30 degrees at night. I uh break into a uh storage unit that's in the back of the apartment complex, and I kind of set up in there. It's like my uh tweaker central, right? And I devised this plan because they changed the lock on my door. I'm gonna go steal things again and go break into my apartment, get to my drugs because I tried to grab my drugs, but the cops were following me around. I was supposed to grab clothes, but I grabbed like five pairs of pants, no coats, like just you know, idiot. Like I didn't even grab a jacket. You know, it's cold. There I am, man. I'm out in the streets and no drugs, no nothing. I'm in rough shape. And I go and I steal a hammer and a couple other things to try to break into my apartment. There I am, you know, like Mission Impossible tweaking. And I literally take the hammer and I pop the lock, and literally the hammer head, brand new hammer, drops to the ground. I should have grabbed a crowbar, but I, you know, tweaking, I grab some screwdrivers and stuff. I cannot get this lock open, I can't do anything. Now I start running and I'm trying to shoulder the door. I'm trying to kick it, and I'm making all this noise. So now I bring the cops to myself again. Oh, Jesus. And the cop uh comes up to the stairs and is like, what are you doing? I'm like, well, everything I own is in there, and I'm out here. So I'm trying to get in there. And he's like, You're lucky you didn't because I would have had to send dogs up, it would have been breaking and entering. You know, he started, he's a really nice cop that's trying to like calm me down and just you know, whatever. Yeah, he uh he sits me down and uh I'm crying now at this point because I'm just I'm just beat, you know, and I'm just like sitting there, like just defeated, you know, just like I don't even know what's going on with my life. I've been outside now for a few nights. The tweaker missions were over and over again. I kept going back, and I'm like, maybe I'll get some camping gear. You know, you're just but I'm trying to break into this door, but the then I finally was like, I'm breaking in tonight, and I just made a ton of noise and the cop showed up and um he puts me in the back of the cop car. He's like, I'm not gonna put cuffs on you. He's like, Man, if you're cool with me, I'll be cool with you. And I'm like, Alright, man. And I swear to this day, this this cop was an angel, man. But he um he he he comes up to me and he's like, uh, I'm in the back of the car, man. I'm just I'm embarrassed, there's people in the apartment for the 18,000 times. And he says, uh, he opens the door and he goes, You want some help? And I was like, He goes, You want some help? And I was like, Yeah, I guess, you know. And then we're in the car and he's taking me to this place, right? And he gets me into this deferment thing where I'm not in jail, but I'm next to the jail, and they'll help me get into treatment and all this stuff. And uh he's telling me the story about his aunt who died from addiction, and he's got me crying in the back of his car because he went out into the streets and was pulling her out of the streets, and I'm just like, dude, you're messing with me here, cop. You know, I'm just bawling and I'm coming off all these drugs now, so I'm just a disaster. Cop buys me food and takes me and drops me off at this place. Wow. Says, this lady's gonna be waiting for you. You were gonna call, get you into detox, and then once you're done with detox, you're gonna get into this program and all this kind of stuff. So through a through a series of events um that that would probably take too long uh to tell, this cop ends up getting me into this deferment program. I I get taken to detox from I end up in the hospital. I get taken to detox by the same uh cops that were just arresting me a few nights before. Wow. They take me to detox and then they pick me up from detox and take me to this program. And I'm at this program where now they're taking me to the doctor, get me my blood pressure pills again, getting this infection that was in my arm from uh, you know, just almost going, you know, getting cleaned up and stuff. And uh they were like, we're gonna be able to get you into treatment, and it was gonna be a 30-dayer, and um then they were gonna put me in clean and sober living, and I was just like, I don't even know what happened. We went from that story in the back of that cop car to a cop not arresting me and wanting to help me, and now I'm in this thing where they're gonna put me into treatment and pay for my sober living, and I'm just like it. I went from that to that, but all everything I own is in that old apartment, so I lost everything. I'm not talking about everything, I'm talking about capital E, everything, everything, all my papers from life, all my clothes, all my shoes. I had nothing. Yeah, I had nothing except for what I was wearing: a pair of sweatpants, a white t-shirt that was covered in mud, and some slippers, you know, like I was I was in rough shape. And so I get out of detox, man, and I go to this place and I start going to the doctor, and I'm like, all right, I guess I'll go to a 30-day, but all of a sudden, as my head starts to clear, right? And I was like getting sober, I'm like, 30 days isn't enough. And I start remembering that when I was in that church at Champion Center and I went to one of their conferences, I saw Matthew Barnett speak from the Los Angeles Dream Center about this place called the Dream Center in LA. And I'm like, I want to go there. Yeah. And I talked to my caseworker, and he starts crying, and he's like, I'm a Christian, and nobody ever wants to go to anything more than 30 days. You want to go there? So now they pay for my bus ticket to get out of Seattle, they give me a bag full of clothes, and I'm on my way for a 30-hour bus trip from Seattle to the Los Angeles Dream Center, just like that. Wow. I'd called him and got a bed date and all the stuff. And uh my dad had helped me out a little bit with bus ticket and oh not bus ticket, he'd helped me out with um I can't, I think he sent me a little bit of cash. Uh, but the bus ticket was paid for by this whole police program. They even took me to get a new ID because I didn't have one. That's why I couldn't fly down to LA. So they at least got me that. I'm never gonna send the ID down to LA. The cops paid for it. Wow. They even cut me in line. I'm like, man, this is the way to this is the way to travel with the cops.

SPEAKER_00: 2:53:13

So this is the way to travel with the cops. I I I get man, there I am, man.

SPEAKER_05: 2:53:20

I get down to the dream center, right? And I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't even believe that I'm here. Yeah, I got nothing of my own. I got maybe 10 bucks left after I got off the bus. I paid a guy to get me over there. Barely spoke any English, but it was the cheapest ride. And I'm like, all right, let's go. And uh I walk into the dream center, man, and I I start their program, right? And I was like, all right, let's let's do this. But I was a mess, man. I mentally, emotionally, spiritually, I was just like, that was a lot. The two years I was I was just I was not in a good place. I was in this fog and I was just emotional and like I almost left at day three. Like I just felt it and I almost just cut out, but I didn't. And uh I made it. I I every morning I was going down to devotions. As soon as worship would come on, I would just start bawling, and I was like on the floor. Like it was like stuff was getting out, right? God was really working on me, things were really happening. So at the four-month mark, I went, you know what? I'm better. And I left. Oh no, I left the dream center and came to Payson, right? I just get on a bus and end up in Phoenix and call my parents and be like, guess what? I'm here. I'm here.

SPEAKER_01: 2:54:26

No, you're not. Yes, I am.

SPEAKER_05: 2:54:28

And and even though that place was incredible, man, and I wish I would have finished it. God is sovereign and he had a plan, and I wouldn't be where I'm at today if it wasn't for what happened. And so, four months, man, I left early. I regretted it the second I walk out. But I get to Payson, and um, my parents are like, all right, whatever, I get a job, man, at Chipotle. I was doing a prep cook in the morning because I could walk, I didn't have a driver's license, didn't have a car, it was suspended. I was walking there just trying to make some cash and do what I had to do. Yeah, um, yeah. So like I ended 2021 as a director of client solutions for this like big old place, and I ended 2022 as a as a prep cook at Chipotle. That's right, yeah. Humbling huh. Yeah, they were opening a new store in Payson, and I I went to the interview and they were like, Why do you want this job? I'm like, I just got out of rehab and I need some money. And the guy goes, Okay, he was like 20 years old, he's younger than my kids, and I'm like, All right, whatever, man. So they would give me hours and I was like, I'll show up. And um, I did. I started getting involved, uh CFTN up there.

SPEAKER_11: 2:55:22

Yeah, started going to a CR up there, and I was like, yeah, is we just got back from man camp uh last weekend. And every Sunday, every Saturday when we leave Man Camp, I go to Rumps Rumsey Park. Okay. And there's a group of ladies from CFTN, holding outreach in Rumsey Park. Yeah, yeah, I know them. I stopped by there. Jennifer, yeah, she's in CR, she's clean and sober for every every Saturday when we leave our man camp, I swing through that park to go see those ladies and pray with them. Yeah, they're great.

SPEAKER_05: 2:55:51

They do uh uh prayer and uh Girl in Prayer. Girl in a prayer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, she's really involved. I know she was really involved in CR, and um, I think she's like at the state level and stuff. Wonderful people, man. She's great, man. Yeah, and um, yeah, they started that uh like right after I I left. They were just kind of starting out. But I started going to that church, started helping in CR and just serving and serving at the church, and was like, I need to dive into this full force. Wow. And then um all of a sudden things started to get weird with my dad.

SPEAKER_00: 2:56:25

Health wise?

SPEAKER_05: 2:56:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 2:56:28

Dang, dude.

SPEAKER_05: 2:56:29

So he got super sick and um brain stuff, right? He just started acting weird and he he wasn't making any sense. So we're like, is this um you know dementia, Alzheimer's? And then all of a sudden one day he fell on the ground, he couldn't get up. I had to like get underneath him and you know, pick him up onto the bed. And I started realizing that this is why God had me there at that moment, right?

SPEAKER_00: 2:56:50

Because my mom's my mom's five two and you know, tiny.

SPEAKER_05: 2:56:54

She couldn't get him off the floor and stuff. So it was it was bad. And I I was kind of pissed because I'm like, man, I'm finally at a point where I'm sober and I'm here and me and just gotta be like this. Yeah. Damn. So um we went to uh dang man. Yeah. We went to uh the Payson hospital, and then he just um they they did scans and stuff, and it turned out to be like just brain cancer, and it was bad. So he they gave him like six months to live and put him on hospice. He got transported down to uh down to the hospital here in Banner Hospital, like right, you know, university, the main one right there on seventh or whatever. And it was it was all bad, man. He digressed quick, and uh we got him back up to hospice, and so I helped my mom take care of him when he was on hospice in the house, which is the crappiest thing ever, man. And um, like you know, you're changing your dad's diapers and doing all this crazy stuff, and it just sucks. And you're just watching somebody die, you know, it's just sucks. So and then dang you're giving him uh drugs, and I'm sober, right? I'm giving him morphine and and Atavan, and I'm just like trying desperately not to do it, right? But I'm I'm a mess, and I'm just overwhelmed, and I had to call on my brothers and get them out and get uh you know Mike Peterson, right? Yeah, yeah. He helped he put my brothers up when they came out. He was living out in Pine. He's great, dude. Love you, Mike. Yeah, he's incredible, man. Um Christian Naystan? Yeah, really?

SPEAKER_00: 2:58:20

Yeah, bro.

SPEAKER_05: 2:58:21

I met him at CFTN at Basin.

SPEAKER_00: 2:58:23

Really? Yep. Wow.

SPEAKER_05: 2:58:24

He that guy, man. Uh, when I got there, I got out of the Dream Center, he heard my story, he let me borrow his truck. And um, after I got my license and and got back, he just basically handed me the keys to his truck, paid for my insurance. Wow. Um I'll tell you more about the story. He ended up uh saving my life at a later point, but um, so he uh he he put my brothers up when they were out there. He's he's incredible, incredible dude. Uh love Mike to death, man. And um he that that was how we how we connected, and and and he's just he's incredible. So um that blesses my heart, dude. Yeah, he's so cool.

SPEAKER_01: 2:58:59

And then when his sons are a big reason why why why we're where we're at, but yeah, dude.

SPEAKER_11: 2:59:09

It's awesome. Yeah, here's his oldest son Nate was a cop. Yep. I'm a convicted felon. Yeah, he's a Mesa cop, yeah. And I come here and I start serving, and they won't let me serve. The only place they'll let me serve is in the parking lot. Parking lot with the kids, right? So I go out there and we're having and he he's I'm like, hey, you know, we're having this conversation. Yeah, I'm a Mesa police officer. I'm like, yeah, I'm a convicted felon. And we start start having genuine conversations, bro. And he would tell me about cop stuff, I'd tell him about prison stuff, and we would just have these good conversations, dude. He became a really good friend of ours. So cool, man. Yeah, same with Pastor Chris, man. He's a really good friend of ours.

SPEAKER_05: 2:59:43

Yeah, Mike, Mike has been instrumental like throughout this period of time. He helped me out so much when I was out there. Like I said, gave me a car, man. Just like he would take me out. I I got to know people at the church because he'd take me out to lunch every Sunday after church and got to know him and his wife and uh another family there really well. So it was it was great. Small world. Small world, man. Wow. Yeah. And so uh so I get to the point where, you know, I'm I'm kind of coordinating all the stuff. My family's coming in town. My uncle comes to see my dad. My dad ends up passing away. Um, and I go to take my youngest brother, he's the last one left, to the airport, and I take him down to the airport, man. And I uh didn't go left, I went right, and I bought drugs, right? I got the whole time without purchasing any drug, or not not purchasing, taking any of my dad's drugs. I even told the nurse, like, I'm an addict, please destroy the morphine and all this stuff. But like, I don't know what it was, but it was just this over like once everybody was gone, I was like, Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 3:00:39

I did everything I had to do, now I can do what I want to do.

SPEAKER_05: 3:00:42

I'm done and I need to just get high. And um here's the crazy thing though. So when I got to uh when I got to Payson, I gotta add this part in the story. When I got there in September of 22, uh in November, I got a messenger message from uh this girl named Rachel. And my parents had started that church in San Diego, right? When I was a little kid. Her family attended that same church that my parents helped start in San Diego, and she lived in uh Phoenix, in Anthem. And she said, What are you doing in Arizona? Why are you in Arizona? And I said I sent a message back that said, Well, I got out of rehab after lighting my life on fire, and now I live with my parents. Want to hang out or something like that? A real winner, baby. I got a lot going forward. She actually messaged me back. It was like, Yeah, we should get together, hang out. We haven't seen each other since we were 12 years old, was the last time we saw each other. And so we started dating, man. And she was instrumental through my dad's death, man. She came out to my to my mom's and just cooked food and just all the stuff. Let us stay at her house when we had to come down to the hospital, and you know, like all that stuff, me and my mom. So she's just incredible, man. So we start dating, and um, she doesn't she doesn't know me anything but but sober, right? Because like that's when she she knew me, and I was trying to follow God and go to CFTN and go to church. I'd come down here and visit her sometimes going to see her. And then this happens with my dad, and I get high, man, and I I get like six days in, and I realize I gotta go get more drugs. And on the drive back from getting more drugs, I'm going 45 and a 65 because I think I'm in Payson, but I'm not. I'm in. And I get pulled over, and the cop pulls me over, finds all the drugs, and charges me with three felonies. Felony, um, possession of two dangerous substances and felony, uh, you know, uh paraphernalia. And I'm like, oh, Arizona doesn't mess around. They don't. And um, I spend a night in Payson jail, nobody knows where I'm at. I had lost my phone because I was that high. Like on the drive, there was 45 minutes, I don't remember. I shouldn't have been driving. I was so high. Yeah. And um, and she finds out I'm in jail, and I get out of jail, man. And this is the day her parents are actually coming to visit my mom because my dad died. Oh, wow. And so I get out of jail and show up to the house, and guess who's at the house? It's her parents. And I'm just like, oh my gosh, dude, you're an idiot, dude. And I didn't want to talk to anybody, man. I'm just like, I I just want to just curl up in a bed. And she I talk to her and tell her I'm okay, man, and she's crying and stuff, and she tells me that she'll talk to me on Sunday. I can come down and talk to her, and I'm thinking she's just gonna uh break up with me at that point because why wouldn't you? And um, so yeah, my my dad passes, I make it six days, and I realize, man, these pending charges are pretty serious. I better hurry up and go go figure some stuff out. But I go down to her house, man, and me and her talk, and I tell her everything and all the stuff that happened, and she forgives me and her family. Man, they they all forgave me. So it was just like I've never had that happen before, right? Where people just like forgive me like that, where they showed me who Jesus was through their actions more than any uh scripture I've ever read could show me in that experience. It was so incredible.

SPEAKER_01: 3:03:43

So she gives me another chance, and uh I had one of those with my dad and my mom. Yeah, yeah. I'd come, I'd be out just being stupid, dude, and they'd come home. I'd come home and expecting all my stuff to be outside or get the boot. Yeah, and just go in your room and freaking lay down.

SPEAKER_11: 3:03:59

Yeah, man. Last time God told me, I wasn't I was mad. Yeah, God told me, No, you're gonna show him grace or something. I'm like, No, I don't want to. God, yeah, he's dumb. Yeah, he's an idiot. I don't want to. And God we really are though. God's like, no, and I did. Dude, the grace changed my life.

SPEAKER_05: 3:04:14

It changed everything for me. That right there did more for me than anything else. Because I'm like, I didn't deserve any of that. But this isn't even the only one. There's more. Just wait, there's more. Trying to tell the whole story, but I know we've been talking for a while, so it's like, man, it's good, but it's crazy town. There's so much to it, but I I'm trying to give the readers digest version. Um, I did it in four episodes on my show. So that's it. It's like, all right, yeah, come on, man. This is nuts. So um, so she forgives me, and I was like, all right, I need to get out of pacing, man. Uh there's nothing for me up here right now. I need to, if her and I are really gonna work towards marriage, I should get down here, get a recovery family and life and and church and all that kind of stuff. So I moved into an Oxford again, right off uh Greenway, right down there. It's about 25 minutes from her house. So I'm living there. She's living at her house. You know, we're trying to date and be good and and be Christian and not like do the things that you want to do, but you know you shouldn't do. And so we're we're living in two different houses, and I would go up and visit her on Mondays, and I'd go to a celebrate recovery in uh Anthem at at uh at Snoran Chapel, but it was Pomp Graft. That's actually where I met you the first time you were giving your testimony. And um, so I was going to that sometimes, and I met some guys from Teen Challenge, Cody, Price, and and Travis Leonard. Um, they always went there and the guys would always come. And so um, I was going to CRs all over the valley, man. I was going to ones at Impact Church. And I was going uh like any, I looked up almost every day of the week. I'd go to all of them. That's how I went to the Phoenix North Baptist, the North Baptist one that they had over there. So I was going to just whatever AA meetings, man. And I was just, I was, I was feverishly trying to make sure that if I went to court, that it looked like I was trying to get it together. At the time I felt like I really was, but looking back, hindsight, right? I was uh it was worldly sorrow. I was sorry that I got caught and I was trying to just maneuver things so that we were good.

SPEAKER_01: 3:06:05

More manipulation.

SPEAKER_05: 3:06:06

More and I was trying to like go into church, go into Bible studies, go into this, but it was all up here, man. It wasn't, it hadn't sunk down to my heart. Yeah, so I'm doing all that and I'm not being honest with anybody, and um, I am just thinking about getting high every second of every single day. And I go back to that Oxford and I'd uh just go to sleep early just to like fight it off, man. Fight it off. And then finally I go with my girlfriend at the time and uh uh how old was she? Seven-year-old daughter. We go to Disneyland, and uh when I get back from Disneyland, I go get my five-month chip at CR, and then that Wednesday I got done with work, packed up all my bags at the Oxford and was like, I'm gonna go get high. Wow. And I sat in a parking lot for two hours and like wrestled with God. Like I did. I even had Christian music playing in the car, and I turned it off and was like, all right, and I went and got high and um ended up in a hotel room, you know, and thought she knew that I was getting high. I texted her, like, I know you know, and I'm done with you. I'm breaking up with you, I'm done, this is it, you know, just horrible, biggest dirt bag way that you can break up. Because I'm thinking, I honestly got psychosis hit so hard, I thought she was outside of my room and I'm peeping out the peephole. And so I text her and she's like, What are you talking about, dude? I break up with her, and then I realized, oh crap, I'm in Arizona. If I get caught again with this stuff, so those charges ended up getting dropped. They didn't proceed with those felony charges, they just let it go. Wow, they do. That's another thing I had to tell. And so after that kind of happened, I'm like, well, maybe I can go get high now, but I'm like, I need to get out of Arizona as quickly as possible and get back to Seattle where they won't arrest me for drug use. So there I am. God rescues me from my Egypt, right? And pulls me out. And I'm about ready to just circle right back and just drive myself right back into Egypt. Yeah. Uh I had money saved up. I planned this sucker, man. This was a planned relapse. Wow. I thought about it every night, fantasized about it. My head, I had already decided that I was a failure and that I was gonna mess up, so I might as well just go do it. I had five grand in the bank that I had saved up. I had a car, and I'm like, I'm out, man. Wow. So I leave Arizona planning to go to Seattle, and I stop in Vegas, and uh the only thing I could find was crack. So I buy crack and some blues, and uh, and uh I ended up smoking crack and doing PCP, man. Oh and uh That'll flip you. It is and I'm with this dude who I'm buying crack from, and we're just just crazy town, and I stay in Vegas for a little while, and then I realize I gotta get out of here, I'm gonna go to Seattle, and so I buy as much crack as I can get just to kind of get me through the trip. And I I made up my mind, I'm like, I'm gonna go get a hotel outside of Vegas, I gotta get away from this whole scenario down here in this guy. And I already called my old drug dealers in Seattle, and I was headed back to go up there, man. Right back to it. And um, I get to this hotel in like whatever the town is, right before you cross the border to Utah. Um, it was like this$35 night hotel, and it had a casino, but all the rooms were detached from the casino. And uh I like was like, all right, I gotta sleep, man. I gotta sleep. So I do as many opiates as I can trying to sleep. Um but when I get to the hotel, I realized that my foot was swollen. Like I take my shoe off, and I was like, man, my foot's swollen. I don't even know what happened, but it hurt. I don't remember hurting myself, but remember cracking PCP. Yeah, there's a chance something happened. I don't even remember. I get there, my foot's swollen. I'm like, I gotta elevate it. So I elevate it and I kind of like nod out, right? Wake up in the morning, whatever you want to call it, and uh grab a crack pipe, smoke some crack, and smoke some pills. And I'm like, all right, my foot. My foot hurts really bad. And I take it off the pillows and go to put it on the ground. And when the blood rushed to it, man, I start crying. Oh, wow. There's so much pain, I couldn't even stand on it. And I had just done drugs. Uh, and I had to pee. And I'm like, man, I can't, I don't even think I can get to the bathroom. I couldn't put any weight on it. I had to hobble to the bathroom, and I'm standing on one leg trying to pee, and I'm missing the toilet. You know, it's just it's a disaster. I'm balling, I'm in so much pain. And so I'm like, I need to go do more drugs and lay down. And then I realized, man, I I don't know what I so the day that I'm about to leave to go to Seattle, I wake up and I can't even walk. Wow. And I look at my ankle and it's swollen and it's black and blue. And the infect now it's I realize it's infected. This is just after my foot being swollen the night before. Uh halfway up my leg, it's red. Oh, so the infection is spreading, and I'm like, oh my gosh, like I can't go to Seattle. And I know with all of my heart now, this was God at that point. So nope. Yeah, like I feel like he almost just poked me in the ankle and was like, You ain't going nowhere, homie.

SPEAKER_08: 3:10:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 3:10:42

And so I end up calling that guy who was a drug dealer because I start to now I'm there and I had to extend my room. I had to hobble down to the front desk. They wouldn't even let me do it over the phone, man. And I'm crying. And I got in my car and parked it like right by their glass doors and was just like, give me a room for another couple nights. But I can't pack my stuff and get it down the stairs and all stuff. I call that guy, he comes all the way out and brings me drugs because I tell him I'll give him some extra money. He brings me more drugs, helps me pack up my bag and gets me in the in the in the car. And I'm like, I guess I'll go back with you to Vegas. He's like, I got an apartment. So now I am headed with this drug dealer back to Vegas because I can't go anywhere with my bag, and I'm starting to run out of money. I'm buying more and more crack from him. And um, long story short, within a few days, I'm parked in my car by the tunnels in Las Vegas, if you're familiar with it, north of the stratosphere. Just smoking crack and things are falling apart. My infection's getting worse and worse, and it's halfway up my leg. And finally, I was like, I've got to tap out. I can't do this. And guess who I called? Rachel. Mike Peterson. Wow. He sent me money, put me up in a hotel for the night, even booked me a hotel on the way back because he knew I was in such bad shape in like Williams or something. I stayed in like a it was booked in my name and he paid for it. And he got me out of Vegas, uh, gave me enough money to get my battery fixed on my car because my battery died. Yeah. Because when it starts to rain, man, it starts to pour. And I drove back to his house, man. He let me sleep in his in his uh house and sleep it all off for a couple days. He just kept bringing me food and and and pop, you know, like all I wanted was sugar. And finally I came to after a couple days and was like, I need to go to the hospital, man. This is bad. And he drove me to the hospital and hung out with me there until they figured out what was going on. And then I got stuck in that hospital on IV antibiotics for a while. Finally got out, went to my mom's house.

SPEAKER_11: 3:12:32

What the hell happened?

SPEAKER_05: 3:12:33

Huh? It was an infection. They never um they they they did an x-ray of my ankle and they said it was cellulitis. I said, I didn't shoot any drugs. I said, I didn't shoot any drugs. And they were like, sure you didn't. You know, like I think what it is is as everything subsided later, my foot started hurt really bad. I couldn't even bend my toe. I think I broke my foot and then it spread through everything. They never even x-rayed my foot. I still haven't even had that foot x-rayed, but like, so I get out and I ended up being on antibiotics for 17 days. Wow. 17 days. And uh I'm just I'm a mess now. I don't know what I'm gonna do, man. And I um I'm having conversations with God on the back deck of my mom's house, begging him to kill me. I'm like, I've repented now. I'm sorry for what I did. Can I just die? I don't, I'm never gonna be sober again. This is 23. This is yeah, this is 23. This is after leaving Vegas. This is uh September of 2023, uh beginning of September. I'm in bad shape, man. Like I'm uh like they gave me a little bit of Vicodin when I get out of the hospital, but my leg is throbbing, like the skin on it shedding because the infection's so bad. I'm going back to the doctor, they're giving me the highest doses of antibiotics, and they keep giving me more and more, and it's still not totally clearing out. I can barely walk. And um man, I start to come too again, right? And my mom's so funny when I came to her house. She's like, All right, honey, I'm really glad you're alive and you're not hurt. But what program are you going into? Like, wow, you're not staying here. I consider going to the Salvation Army, I consider going back to the Dream Center. I thought Rachel was never gonna talk to me again. Swore she was never gonna talk to me again, and um, and so I didn't know where I was gonna go, man. I I was thinking Salvation Army because it was six months, and I was like, six months sounds a lot better than 13 months or 12 months or whatever. And um then I uh I talked to talked to Cody Price from Teen Challenge and he told me about it, and I was like, maybe, maybe I do that. But I don't know, man. I don't know about 13 months. And then on September 17th, so two days after finally being sober, because my sobriety date is September 15th, 2023. I uh texted Rachel and I just said, I'm sorry, I'm alive. My bad. I didn't know what to say. I'm like, I don't even know what to say. I just want to let you know that I really am sorry. I know it doesn't mean anything right now, but I'm alive and I'm trying to figure out what program I'm gonna go into, and I hope maybe you'll talk to me again someday. And um she reached back out, man, a couple days later, and then all of a sudden we're talking again, and she like didn't should not have even considered forgiving me. But now she drives out to Payson because I don't have a car now, right? And I can't even drive, my ankle's so jacked. We go out and get we we get some food and we start talking. And um I call her dad to apologize. And I remember having a conversation with him, and I was like, Man, I don't know what I'm gonna do, I don't know where I'm gonna go. I was like, I'm so sorry for what I did to your daughter, you know. I'm I'm a dirt bag, and you know, he's like, it took a lot for you to actually pick up the phone and call, and I was like, man, I don't know. I'm just sorry, you know, I really am sorry. I don't know why I keep doing this, and I I I really don't know why I keep doing this, man. And I said, I I'm trying to figure out he's like, What are you gonna do? And I was like, Well, I'm thinking about this or this. I was like, I don't really want to go in this one because it's like 13 months. He goes, Michael, because it anybody who's known me since I was a little kid calls me Michael, but most people nowadays will call me Mike. But he's like, Michael, it doesn't matter if it takes six months or six years, you need to get into it doesn't matter. Yeah, he's like, take as long as you need. Wow. You need uh you need the healing, you need wholeness, you need freedom. If you knew that six years from now you can go into a program at the end, you'd come out free, you would do it. So when he said that, I was like, Alright, man, I'm gonna go into teen challenge. Come on, that's what I'm gonna do. Yeah, and I called Cody, man, he hooked it all up, and uh Rachel came out and drove me to Teen Challenge and uh Oh my god, bro. Drop me off with my bag and um I joked with her. I'm like, You said I was just gonna be a summer camp. I've been here for 13 months. She had no reason to do that. She had no reason to forgive me. And then at the two-week mark in the program, when you can finally get mail, she I get a year's worth of letters dated for the 15th of every month, dude, with sobriety dates. Like with she'd been writing you, she wrote me 13 letters when she she dropped me off and went home and wrote 13 letters for each so that I would have something to open and look forward to every month on my sobriety date with little like you can keep doing it and Bible verses and all this stuff, man.

SPEAKER_00: 3:17:10

And I'm just like, Oh my god, it's like who does that, right?

SPEAKER_05: 3:17:14

And that was the right there where I was like, All right, man, she is absolutely the angel, right? To do something like that. And I just I was defeated at that point. It encouraged me, right? And now I'm calling her and she's asking me, like, what's God doing in your life and all this stuff? And I'm just like, man, I better start paying better attention because right now I'm just kind of trying to like my leg hurts, and you know, yeah, yeah, I better dial in here because she I'm gonna get quizzed every week on what I'm doing. So I'm I start just diving into the Bible, right? I just start diving in the Bible, start reading books, and just like I start praying every day. I'm like, God, I don't know what I'm doing anymore. I don't even know how to surrender right. I don't know how to forgive right. I I'm an absolute disaster and I need your help because I can't keep doing this anymore. I can't keep, I can't keep hurting people. I can't keep hurting myself. I I was like, I either want to die, just let me die, or I I need I can't do this anymore. I started going into that chapel on that blue carpet and getting down on my knees at the altar and saying, I don't even know how to surrender anymore. Jesus, I need your help just to surrender and help me. And I was having all the thoughts, like, oh, what's this person gonna think? All the things you think about that. I'm like, you know what? I'm over it. Yeah, every time I got a chance, I'm going to the altar. And then I got I got music privileges at two months, man. I was in that thing all the time, playing music, and I was on the floor, right? But here's the craziest part about what happened in Teen Challenge. At a month and a half, the first night that Rachel could come visit me on a Sunday, she was gonna stay for Sunday night, whatever. Explosion. Explosion. Yeah, and Howard and Tiffany Bell were coming. Oh, yeah. Right. And I uh had just told Adam Prosser, who was the uh PR rep there at the time, he's now the supervisor of the center, uh, that um, you know, I can do some stuff with mics and sound, and I was just like, whatever you can do to do something while you're there. I'm like, I can help with that stuff, because it always seemed like the staff never really wanted to do it, so I was like, I can help. And they couldn't figure out Howard's mic, right? He had a wireless mic because he's in a wheelchair, and it was a really simple fix. I took his wireless box and just swapped it out, and the XLR went in there. It's like boom, we're done, right? Yeah, I was like, I didn't even do anything, but it worked, and then and uh, and then all of a sudden you just feel the power of God just just drop in this room, and he's calling people forward, and people are falling down and crying, and I'm like, I'm in the back, man, and I'm like, all right, this is cool, but I'm I'm I'm good on all that, right?

SPEAKER_08: 3:19:41

I'm good.

SPEAKER_05: 3:19:42

And all of a sudden Howard goes, Where's the guy who helped me with my microphone? The the guy uh he doesn't work here, but he's wearing a plaid shirt, and I'm like, Oh crap, I'm wearing a plaid shirt. I get up and like I'm right here, he's like, Come here. I start walking towards the front, he's like, Stop right there. And I was like, Okay, man, three spots, three chair chair rows back, and he starts speaking, and the words that that are coming out of his mouth are the exact things that I've been praying to God about for the last month and a half. Like it was like God was speaking to me through him. The things that he said, it was just like and I couldn't stand up anymore. I started trembling and I fell to my knees and I'm bawling, and I couldn't even stay on my knees. I fell face down on the floor, and I spent 15 minutes on the floor of that teen challenge, nasty carpet, yeah, not even realizing where I was, bawling. I soaked the floor in tears, man. I got up and went back to my chair, and I was soaking my, I couldn't stop crying. I was just drenched, and I can tell you that that moment I was I had a radical encounter with Christ, and Jesus absolutely delivered me from all of my fears in that moment. Psalm 34, 4 says that I sought the Lord and He answered me and delivered me from all my fears. So I sought the Lord, finally realizing that I can't even do that right, that I need his help for everything. And when that, whatever it was, the turn of events, man, God completely set me free. So I was completely delivered in that moment. All the guilt, all the shame, all the stuff that I felt for years that have kept me in those cycles of sin and shame and all that stuff, yeah, fell off in that moment. I have not thought about using drugs or drinking since that moment. And so now I've got two years and a couple of months, and I couldn't even rub two clean days together before this. So going back to that praying and that freedom's coming song, I look back to that and I'm like, like God was prophesying.

SPEAKER_01: 3:21:36

What in the world, man?

SPEAKER_05: 3:21:37

That was at the beginning of 2022. Yeah and by the the towards the end of 2023, I was completely free. And then at Teen Challenge through a process, I got really involved in Scottsdale Bible Church. I still am. I pick up a van of guys at Teen Challenge. I drive them to now they're going to the Shea campus and the Northridge campus. Because I'm like, man, I had a great experience there. I should keep going, right? And then helping other people. That's good. And so um I uh had a mentor there, Craig, and we connected, man. And so I tell every people, uh people that uh deliverance got me out of Egypt, but what's kept me out is discipleship. So I've surrounded myself with people that I opened my life to. I am being discipled and discipling people at all times. That's great. And I when things get a little like hectic in my life, I call people now and I'm like, hey man, this is going on, I'm thinking this crazy stuff. And and uh I've had stuff happen, man, where it's just like things aren't going the way that I want to. Um and normally I'd be like, Oh, I'm gonna throw a fit and now I'm just gonna leave and go somewhere else or whatever it is, you know, just like get offended and I'm gonna do stupid things. But instead, man, I'm seeking wise counsel. And um, you know, that time at Teen Challenge, uh, I realized about halfway in, man, all the only commodity I had was time. So if I want to be a great husband, if I want to be uh um, you know, in ministry, if I want to do this and that and this, I gotta start planning it out right now. I ended up writing a book while I was in there. I haven't taken taken it anywhere else yet. I've done all the editing and it's and it's finished with like this whole story and in print form, but God's kind of told me to wait on that right now. So it's just kind of chilling. But that was how I spent my time there. I read over 50 books, man. I was in the Word all the time. I didn't play spades, I didn't watch movies, I didn't do any of that stuff. And I was blessed to be in PR and Reggie, who was there at the time, would let me stay in after he was off. So at night I was kind of just like it was just time with with God, man, and it was um it was absolutely incredible. But since that time, man, so Rachel stuck by me through the entire program. She uh came almost every Sunday and visited me, and she would come out with our daughter Isabel, man, and we would I get to see her usually every other week. And um, she came out all the time, was like supporting me through the whole program. Her family was writing me letters, they would come visit me. Her uncle, who does like prison ministry, sent me an encouraging letter while I was there. I just it was just flooded with encouragement from her and her family. And um, I tell her, man, I was like because of her, like it just made me realize that Jesus really could be the God of my wildest dreams, right? The God that forgives and the grace and just that stuff, right? Really, that night with Howard, like that went from my head to my heart finally. It just like sunk in. And those were even the words out of his mouth, which is which is crazy. It was it was some of the words out of his mouth that like you've never let this thing go from your head to your heart. And he talked about the idols that I had in my life, and he called them out. I'm just like, what is happening? Right? And um, then I was begging God to be free, and then that happened, was just an just an incredible experience. So deliverance and then discipleship. So I've stayed connected to Scottsdale Bible Church. Um, I've I'm really connected with them, and so um they wanted to start doing mentoring at another campus, so I offered to drive another bus. They had a waiting list at the ranch of like 13 guys, and so I did got on their insurance and I drive up there and I pick them up and take them on on Tuesday nights. I serve at my church like uh any opportunity that I get. I go to a Bible study at my church on Monday nights, which is where I kind of get filled back up, and I don't really do much talking, I just listen. Wednesday night I serve uh in youth. Um Thursday nights I hang out with our daughter and she has dance and stuff like that. Friday nights we started recovery church. Let's go, um, which is uh it's it's supposed to be the um the bridge between the rooms of recovery and the church and vice versa. It's it's similar to CR where it's different because it's all focused on drug and alcohol addiction. Um that's just that's what we focus on. And it's people in early stages of recovery introducing them to the gospel. It's got a very evangelistic thing to it. And I'm an evangelist at heart and I love preaching the gospel and I love sharing the gospel with people. And I would talk to the guys from Recovery Church, and they're like, Man, I was at a service last night, we had 24 baptisms. I was like, that's what I want to do. So I uh approached my church with it, and they just got behind it and gave us full access to the church and uh support the ministry and hooked us up with everything, man. And um, we started that last uh last Friday. Come on, and uh a bunch of the guys from Teen Challenge came out, they're gonna come out on a regular basis. Uh just had service last night. Uh I was able to preach a message on surrender, actually. Step one. Come on, man. Step one and James 4, 6, right? God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble. Um and the whole concept was that when pride falls, grace rises. And uh and then compare it to the you know the first step that we realize that we have a problem that our life has become unmanageable. But addiction isn't a disease, and some people may be like, Woo, it's sin. That's it, it's idolatry. That's it. It feels like a disease because it gets a foothold in your life, and then a foothold turns into a stronghold. Now I'm trapped in this cycle of sin, guilt, and shame and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_11: 3:26:28

But um I think by calling it a disease, it takes responsibility away from the user.

SPEAKER_05: 3:26:34

Absolutely. And I I took that, I was like, Well, it's not my fault. Once I, you know, once I use, now it's a disease, and the disease has taken over. Uh well, you know, once I started treating it as sin and realized I can just repent and turn this over to God, then all of a sudden you can find um true freedom. So it's fun to take the biblical principles because the steps are biblical and be able to tie them together and then and share with people. We had a couple new people last night, somebody who just showed up, he's like a month, month and a week sober and just moved from Chicago, and it was like, man, just seeing that kind of stuff is great. So that's that's what I'm doing right now. And then I serve on the tech team at at church on on Sundays. I serve in kids too, sometimes anywhere, man. Like anywhere that um I see a need, need a need. Absolutely, man. And it's like you know you shouldn't be alive, right? Absolutely. I should be dead. I tell people I'm on bonus time. You really are I should be dead or in prison.

SPEAKER_11: 3:27:24

I just sat here for the last three and a half hours listening to you talk. Yeah, there's no reason on earth that you should be sitting right there. There's not a reason in hell that you should be sitting right there, brother, except for God.

SPEAKER_05: 3:27:34

There's no reason. And last night I was preaching at a recovery church service. This morning I recorded an episode of my podcast, and then now I'm here talking to you guys about it because here's the thing you know they say hurt people, hurt people. Yeah, well, freed people help free people. Come on, man. So if I'm not the Great Commission, right? Uh making disciples, baptizing the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, and if Jesus completely set me free from my addiction the way that he did, but I'm not telling other people about it, what was the point? Come on, bro. There's absolutely no point. So I am just filled with this fire of like, I don't think I'm ever doing enough because it's like I went hard for my addiction. I I laid everything down at the foot of the enemy, right? Now I'm gonna lay everything down at the feet of Jesus. Come on, bro. I can't save anybody. There's nothing I could say that can save anybody. The only person that can save anyone is But you can tell him where to find it. But I can tell them where to find it. That's right. And I can tell him what he did through me, and I can tell him that I shouldn't, I shouldn't, absolutely should not be alive. And the fact that for me the cross is enough. If that's all that I had was the cross, I am the most blessed person in the world. But the fact that Jesus has given me this life where I haven't we got married, Rachel and I got married uh November, right as soon as I graduated, and two weeks later, man, we were on the beach in San Diego getting married. Praise God, it was the most beautiful thing. Uh, my daughter came from Seattle, like with all the drama there. I was at my son's graduation in June up in Seattle um from high school, and so that's still got some stuff that we got to work on, man, because there's a lot of a lot of stuff there from that. But like I'm seeing just the reconciliation, right? You know, what is the song? I see the evidence of your goodness all over my life, right? All over my life. And so, like, it's just it's been incredible what God has done. He rescued me, right, from my Egypt. Yeah, and he's provided an environment where my faithfulness to him can flourish, right? That's what he did with the what he wanted to do with the children of Israel when he grabbed Moses at the burning bush and he said, Go, you know, be the deliverer or deliverer of my people. And Moses is like, What? I gotta stutter. And he's like, Doesn't matter, go. He goes, he has this life-changing experience where he meets God in the burning bush, I am, and all of a sudden he just goes. And then he delivers them out of Egypt. And the whole plan was to take them through the Red Sea and take them back to Mount Sinai so that God could reveal himself to his people. And then they show up, right? Exodus 19 4, he says, I brought you on eagle's wings to myself. And he was talking about them because all God wants is communion. Yeah, he wants communion with you, he wants to hang out with you. What is God's will for your life? It's to not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, then to be able to test and approve what God's will is, His good, pleasing, and perfect will. So just like God wanted to take the children of Israel to Mount Sinai and reveal, He said, I wanted to reveal myself to you, right? Bring you up the mountain so you could fear me. And instead, they feared him in the wrong way. They feared the clouds and the lightning and all that stuff. And they said, Moses, we're good. You go up. We're gonna hang out here, do weird things, and build golden calves, right? We're not gonna go up the mountain. We're gonna stay down here and build up our own idols. And that was my life. I had all these times where God rescued me, but I didn't go up the mountain. I just built up idols and built up my life the way that I wanted it to be. And this time I was like, Nope, I'm gonna go up the mountain, man. And so God rescued me, He set me free, right? And so um that's all I want to do is tell other people about what God's done in my life. So I started a podcast. I talked to Rowdy about all the stuff when I was when I was drowning. You're the one that was calling them all the time. Yeah, I was drowning and tech and them. And I'm just what do I use for this? What do I use for that? And so like I I think I I I I was a little nervous about just getting on and doing then once I finally did it, man. Redeemed and restored.

SPEAKER_11: 3:31:04

Redeemed and restored. Redeemed and restored.

SPEAKER_05: 3:31:06

Yeah. And uh yeah, it's on all the the YouTube videos. Check it out, man. If you guys are interested, go check it out.

SPEAKER_11: 3:31:10

Let's help our brother out.

SPEAKER_05: 3:31:11

Yeah, it's on all the you know, made it on the show. Go to YouTube, subscribe, hit the bell. Yeah, YouTube, and and I've brought people on and we've talked about their testimonies, and I've I've even done the last few weeks, uh, step one, step two, and step three, kind of some of the stuff I'm sharing at at Recovery Church, and just just a whole bunch of stuff, man. I just wanted to I just wanted to help people. If it helps one person, I'm happy.

SPEAKER_11: 3:31:29

So you said you said you started recovery church at your church, but you found it somewhere else. Yeah, man. So it's what it what is that?

SPEAKER_05: 3:31:36

Uh through recovery church, I found through podcasting, ironically. Um I hate to use it like a CR, but is it like a program that you bring to your church? Yeah, it's it is, and you can you can they call it planting a recovery church, you know, but they they started on the east coast. So you know how CR is saddleback church, it's on the west coast, and it's still all over the place, but it's really big, especially in California and even in Arizona, because it's where it started. Well, this started in Florida. They um uh a secular recovery thing wanted them to bring like church to a recovery center, so they brought recovery church and uh it kind of took off, and and now they've added all these campuses. They've got over a hundred campuses across the United States. Wow, they've got them all over the place in Florida. And I joined this Christian podcasters website when I started podcasting, connected with this guy who has a podcast out of Florida. Him and his wife were saved out of addiction, and it not only saved them but saved their marriage. I start talking to him and he and I and I realize he's speaking at all these recovery churches, and I'm like, what is recovery church? And he goes, he tells me about it. I look up the website, and I'm like, okay, well, that's kind of cool. And I just take it and slide it over there. I'm like, I got a lot going on right now, that's cool. And then I'm at a men's breakfast, and my friend Dave, um, who helped me start Recovery Church, uh, talks to me after breakfast and goes, Hey, you ever heard of recovery church? And I'm like, that is the weirdest freaking thing. I haven't heard about this thing ever in life, and now twice in two weeks. And then a week later, somebody else says it to me, and I'm like, all right, God, I get it. So I call them, I reach out, and um, then all of a sudden, all these other people from North Phoenix in the same area that I live start reaching out. We get all connected, we form a leadership team of about 10 of us. Wow. And um, I was gonna find a church for us to do it at, but I presented it to my church first. I met with the executive pastor, and they love the idea of it, man, and they just got behind us. And um that's awesome. So now that's uh every Friday night at 6 30 at Crossroads Church in um Anthem. It's I love that. You know, we're gonna go through uh it's it's recovery in Jesus, you know. We do worship and and we do a message or a teaching, same thing. And uh the last one of every month, we're gonna we do surrender crosses instead of um instead of chips or anything, the surrender crosses different colors for different time. Every once a month we do a big one where we do a testimony and baptisms and we give out crosses. That's the last service of every month. But we just started, man. And so um, you know, it's just uh new and uh how do the testimonies go? What's that?

SPEAKER_01: 3:33:50

How do the testimonies go? Like, do me and can me and dad come and chat?

SPEAKER_05: 3:33:54

Man, I'm gonna be I'm gonna be hitting people up, so I'll be hitting you guys up. You know what? You said every Friday? It's uh every Friday we meet, but the last Friday of every month we do testimonies and baptisms and all that. We don't break out of the channel. Go check it out. Yeah, you guys.

SPEAKER_01: 3:34:08

You're gonna be the first one. Get him, bro. It's fun. His next step is sharing his testimony.

SPEAKER_11: 3:34:13

And his next step is getting over the fear of speaking in front of people. I host them what's the best way to do it? By getting up in front of people and host them of RCR meetings, and I do some readings and I do other things like that. The other day, uh the last time I was hosting, I had a freaking panic attack. Never had a panic attack in my life. Man, I'm up there and I start sweating. Can't speak, you know what I mean? And I get through it, but I'm like, what the hell is going on?

SPEAKER_05: 3:34:35

Yeah, you know what I heard John Bevere say once, he's one of my favorite authors. He people are like, Do you get nervous when you're talking in front of 20,000 people? He goes, Nope. And they're like, Really? Not at all. He goes, No, I'm not performing. I'm serving. Yeah, so good. You're serving. So good. You're serving. So no matter what, man, you can't mess it up, you can't do anything wrong, it doesn't really matter, nobody even notices. Um, you know, but it really it's like it's about the Holy Spirit work for you to other people, and it may just be for one person, and it may be for a hundred. Yeah, you don't know, man, but maybe just for him when I because I I get nervous in front of people too, and then when I started realizing, man, it's just I'm serving. Yeah, and so like I I gave a 30-minute message last night, right? On surrender and all that kind of stuff, man. And that was what I was telling myself before. I'm like, you know what? I'm just serving, right? Amen. And um, it could be just for one person, right? And who who knows, but God knows. And um, God's word never comes back void.

SPEAKER_06: 3:35:26

And you can't save anybody. You can't save anybody.

SPEAKER_05: 3:35:30

Only God can. So you speak the words that He tells you to speak, you're serving, and then His His spirit, His Word penetrates their heart. That's all that matters.

SPEAKER_01: 3:35:37

You're hosting Monday, buddy. Thanks for that. It's just serving.

SPEAKER_11: 3:35:40

Just serving. I know I need to write my testimony, I need to get out there and share it. And but I keep Yeah man. I make excuses. I'm not gonna lie, I make excuses.

SPEAKER_05: 3:35:47

You know what's what's crazy is that I've I've I've teen challenge you share your testimony a lot, right? That helps, and it's forced. Yeah, yeah. And I remember I was you don't even know if you're gonna they could just cut it. Yeah, they cut me up. I was at one and I don't even remember what I said. I said something real fast. It was like the yeah, because you find out am I doing the 30-second version or the five-minute version? Because you kind of start realizing, especially I was in PR, I was in every single one. So I had different versions of it, which helped me a ton, right? It's good, but um, I I uh I talked for 30 seconds, maybe a minute, and the lady comes up to me and she's bawling. Yeah, and she told me that I just gave her hope that maybe her kid could come back from addiction. I don't even remember what I said, and it made me realize you know what? That's what she needed to hear. Amen. What do you say?

SPEAKER_01: 3:36:31

You always say, you just get up there and God's gonna meet you right there, and he's gonna move.

SPEAKER_11: 3:36:35

So I had this thing at Teen Challenge. I brought the whole worship band, everything. We did this Sunday night thing. Oh, cool. And uh all week I'm preparing a message, right? I get Saturday Sunday morning. I'm like reading my messages, and God tells me, Who does that sound like? I'm like, that sounds like me. He's like, Yeah, I just had to keep you busy, show up. Yep. So I show up to the Sunday thing. I have no idea what I'm gonna say. I just and they're like my turn. I get up on stage. I still don't know what the hell I said. I got up there and did whatever I did, you know what I mean? And left there and was like, ever since then I know if God's calling me to it to just show up, God will show up. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05: 3:37:08

That's so true, man. And la yesterday, so I was all ready to take my time and all this stuff, and then all of a sudden, right? I've got everything ready, I've got the car loaded, so we can get recovery church set up. I'm preaching. I was like, I'm gonna go through my my this my notes again, and then uh my printer jams because I got to print out the things for our small groups, right? And I'm like, and it was a bad jam where I'm not gonna figure this out. I'm like, all right, I gotta go to the place and print it. I just I I'm surrendering to the fact that I'm not gonna make this thing work right now, figure it out later. And then um I I do that, I come home, so I'm like, all right, now I'm gonna read my message again. And I was like, I'm gonna go shave first, shave my neck. Hadn't shaven the day before because I didn't go anywhere on Thursday because I take her to dance, or maybe my wife does, and we have dinner as a family. So I'm like, I'm not shaving my neck or whatever. And then I go and this razor I've had, this electric trimmer for two plus years, breaks. After I'd shaved a stripe out of my neck, so now I gotta, so now I gotta run to the store, grab an old school razor, and I'm feverishly shaving, you know, cutting myself, and I'm just like thinking about anything that I was gonna do, and all of a sudden I show up and I'm like, Well, I guess I just gotta go now, you know. And I was like, I I I heard the same thing. Like, God's like, Well, didn't have time because you know, I feel like that was a whole distraction, so I didn't even think about it. I wasn't nervous, and and I just went to it. So, yeah, you're just serving.

SPEAKER_06: 3:38:25

Amen.

SPEAKER_05: 3:38:26

And so, um, yeah, and then the other thing we got going on uh is we started uh Redeemed and Restored Ministries. Uh we started our nonprofit uh and we're opening our first uh recovery slash discipleship house.

SPEAKER_01: 3:38:37

Come on, bro.

SPEAKER_05: 3:38:39

Um we're working it's taking a little bit longer to get it going than we thought because the guy who moved out, man, it was a mess, and the AC was broken and this. So there's all these things, right? So um, yeah, our website's Redeemed and Restored Ministries.com. The long-term dream for that is we're opening our first home. Is I have been to every Christian discipleship program in life, right? I've been to the Dream Center. I love this time. I've been to Salvation Army, I've been to Teen Challenge. I've seen what they all do well, and I've seen areas that you know things could improve. Yeah. I'm grateful for all of them, but um I want to uh eventually start a 12-month uh full-on uh residential inpatient program. And then at the end of it, I want to have enough transitional homes where people can transition directly out of our program into our transitional homes. So good. So the re-entry process where our discipleship stuff will continue, we'll be able to um teach them credit literacy, financial literacy, help them get jobs and cars. So, ideally, like in a perfect world, I would love to have a 12-month program. Where then if somebody doesn't want to stick around, doesn't want to work for the program because they don't just don't feel called to it, they can go get a job, we can put them in one of our transitional homes, they can live there for a few months while they figure out a job and we can help them with all that kind of stuff. And so I'm starting to meet some people that are gonna start that have started to help us with the vision of that. But the long-term vision is to to do that and be able to support people for the first three months uh or three years of recovery. So they'll have a year of residential, two years in our houses, and then get houses all over the valley. You know, right now we'll have one in North Phoenix because it's just it's where we've got one that'll be our first house, and then we'll just kind of go from there and see what and see what God does with it, man. Um, you know, but that's the the dream that God's put on my heart is that I want to help people. We want to we want to give them something to build towards. I've met so many people in these programs that don't have any family, that don't have support. And it's like the support that I got this time was different. Yeah, like I told you about, it just changed like everything. So if we can really support people and walk alongside people and truly disciple them, and then they feel like they have a family and a real house and a real home to go to. And at the end of our um program, the end of the two years, uh, we're gonna give them back a re-entry scholarship fund that'll be the equivalent of uh 30% of the rent that they paid while they're there so they can start their life, um, you know, put a down payment on a house or go back to school or buy a new car or whatever.

SPEAKER_11: 3:40:58

Who have lost hope and and lost what it feels like to be loved when they see love or they see someone who believes in them again, it's a reason to fight again. Like you like you had. Yep. You know, up until up until Rachel and her family showed you forgiveness and love, you you had no reason to fight. Everywhere you went was just felt like you were crapped on it.

SPEAKER_05: 3:41:22

I'd get it back together, man, and then I would just I would fall back apart. You know, for me I've realized that it was a difference between worldly sorrow and godly sorrow, like it talks about in 2 Corinthians, right? Worldly sorrow leads to death, godly sorrow leads to repentance, leads to repentance in life. It's the difference of I'm sorry because I got caught, or I'm sorry because the kitchen has gotten too hot and I need somebody to turn it down. The consequences of my actions now are great enough to where I'm like, all right, time to slow the sucker down. But then once they don't press charges, or all of a sudden that stuff's clear, I was like, all right, I didn't really repent. I was sorry that I got caught, or I was sorry that it got kind of rough, but I wasn't sorry that I hurt the heart of the one that created me, the God who spoke the world into existence, the God who knit you together in your mother's womb. You were fearfully and wonderfully made. So when you sin against a holy God that that saw you from the foundation of time and knit you together in your mother's womb, and you really realize, man, I messed up and I hurt the heart of the one that created me, that loves me, that cares for me enough to let my life fall apart to the point where the only option I have is to repent. His kindness, kindness truly did lead me to repentance. Like he talks about in Romans 2. So God's been way too good to me, and um I should be dead, like you said. I shouldn't be here, I'm on bonus time. So all I want to do is tell other people about what God's done in my life. All I want to do is help show other people that there is a way out, and his name is Jesus. Jesus!

SPEAKER_11: 3:42:45

So you talked about what you were hoping for with your ministry and stuff like that. Is there anything else that you're believing God for? Man, or are you just kind of driven towards discipleship and getting this discipleship and ministry and all that kind of stuff, man?

SPEAKER_05: 3:42:57

Uh, you know, the number one thing that I pray for outside of all that stuff is I I just want to know that my kids know Jesus, right? So uh I know that our nine-year-old that we have together now, it's my stepdaughter, um, her her daughter. I know she knows Jesus. Yeah. Because we were at high school talking, we were doing this fun night where we asked them questions and we could punch their card and we were asking people to tell us the gospel, right? And a lot of the high schoolers couldn't. And I'm like, man, we are failing here. We need to work on them knowing what it was. So then we're telling them the gospel and asking them other questions, stuff like that. And then I asked our daughter, I said, Hey, what's the gospel? And she's like, Well, see, um the reason why there's good news is because there's bad news, right? And the bad news is sin entered into the world in the Garden of Eden because of and and she starts going through the fact that the bad news is that no matter what we do, that we cannot uh reconnect with a holy God when there's sin in between it. And I'm like, thank God, all right, we're good there. Right. The funny thing about that is too right, was there's 613 laws in Leviticus, right? And they're like, there's no way that we could keep any of them. There was only one law in the Garden of Eden. Don't eat the apples, right? Crapped that one. Yeah. So it's like, if we can't keep one, we can't keep 613, that is the bad news. And the good news is that um, you know, Jesus came to earth, 100% God, 100% man, lived a perfect life, died a death unimaginable, uh, paid a price that we couldn't pay. And because of what he's done, and because he not only died on a cross but rose three days later, the glorious news of the gospel is that Jesus Christ is alive. And because of that, we can now live free and free people, right? Freed people to help free people. So for my older kids, I want to know that they know Jesus. That's the number one thing. I've got an 18-year-old, a 22-year-old, and a 23-year-old. And um I know uh, you know, me and my daughter have talked about it some. Uh, my oldest son's a nuke in the Navy. He's stationed in uh like Pearl Harbor, he's in a Honolulu, really smart kid. And then my youngest son just started his freshman year at Boise State. They are incredibly bright and well put together for the disaster of a life uh that I put in front of them. Praise God for that. But but the the number one thing, man, as a as a parent, is you want to know that uh Jesus reveals himself to your children the same way that he revealed himself to you. So that's my number one uh, you know, prayer is that my kids uh come to know Jesus the way that uh that he revealed himself to me. And then, yeah, man, the ministry is just like, you know, I don't know how all the stuff has started to happen. It just kind of started happening.

SPEAKER_11: 3:45:22

Amen.

SPEAKER_05: 3:45:22

And uh get out of the way, and then God will do what he's gonna do in his timing, you know. And um, praise God for that. Because uh I'm a disaster without Jesus. So uh I don't need to do anything in my own strength. Um, I've proven that that ends at me cop cars hospitals or 13 month rehabs, right?

SPEAKER_11: 3:45:41

So the podcast and the ministry are both called Redeemed and Restored. Redeemed and Restored, yep. Yeah, if you guys want to go check it out, man, please help support Brother Mike. Go check out his podcast, go look up his ministry.

SPEAKER_01: 3:45:50

Um Redeemed and Restored Ministries.com.

SPEAKER_05: 3:45:54

Yep, that's the website. I'm glad you're live, brother. Me too, man. Praise God for that.

SPEAKER_11: 3:46:00

That's probably one of the most wildest ones I've heard so far. Okay. We're the most honored, and that was just not the ride.

SPEAKER_01: 3:46:07

I never knew where we were gonna go next.

SPEAKER_05: 3:46:11

That's the shortened uh reader's day discord. I can't wait to read the book. Oh my gosh, it's all in there. It's all in there. It's like sometimes I look back at it and I'm just like, what in the world? Yeah, buddy. But but praise, praise God that he was patient.

SPEAKER_08: 3:46:29

Is that half one of yours? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's the oh wow, I like that. Yeah, it's his little symbol.

SPEAKER_05: 3:46:34

Yeah, we just we just started a merch store on the on the on the website and on it's on my YouTube channel too, because 100% of the proceeds are gonna go back into the ministry. Great. I I don't I don't know. Might as well look that up. I like that. Yeah, we did like this printify thing, and um, we ordered all the stuff just to make sure it was like good quality stuff, and uh, we tried to price it low enough to where it was shipping costs that it's not crazy. But yeah, 100% of the cost goes right back into the ministry, so even purchases with the merch would be tax deductible because uh we applied for the 501c3 and all that kind of stuff is in the work. So um it's good, bro. God is good, really good. Yeah, anything else?

SPEAKER_01: 3:47:15

I'm just thankful, man. Thankful for what you've been through, the hell. Now you get to help other people go through theirs and find Jesus and freedom. Yep. Um thankful that we were able to to do that. This has been scheduled for months. Yeah, man. Um but we we didn't know all all this was gonna happen within this time and look like it's it's good.

SPEAKER_05: 3:47:41

I uh I daily, man, I get overwhelmed with gratitude, right? Because that's so important for people in recovery for anybody who's out there that you cannot switch, flip the switch from gratitude to an attitude, right? You can't go to that whole like uh I deserve this or entitlement. Come on, buddy. Because I talk about one degree a lot with the guys in Teen Challenge, man. When you're one degree off, right, if you want to leave the West Coast, and let's say you're in LA and you want to go to Baltimore, yeah. Uh sorry, Washington, DC, and you're one degree off, you don't end up uh one degree off of Washington, you end up in Baltimore. Yeah, and if you keep going, you want to go to you know London or whatever, you end up in uh Belgium. And I kept going when I looked it up online, and it's like if you're trying to go to the sun, you end up in I don't even know where it was like it kept going in the thing, but that's that's so true in our life, man. We we make compromises, right? Small compromises. I'll all well, at least I'm not doing that. At least I'm not like that person. Or, you know, well, I'm not doing that. So I'm like, I will not make any compromises with my integrity because the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, is the beginning of wisdom, like it talks about in Proverbs 1, Proverbs 9, and Psalm 111, right? And it's like if I uh fear the Lord, then I need to stay uh like focused on him. There's no hiding anything, there's no real compromise or or like just a little off. But look at Solomon, man. He made uh those little one-degree compromises, and all of a sudden he's got all these foreign women and he's got foreign gods. He was the wisest man in the Bible. So if he can make that mistake, anybody can make that mistake. So one degree, man, no, I will not compromise my integrity. No, I would rather tell the truth and go to great lengths to do it versus compromising because it's those small, you don't end up just falling off a cliff. You end up slowly compromising to the point where all of a sudden that decision to do something really stupid becomes a lot easier because that idolatry uh thing comes back into play. When you're willfully sinning and choosing to do things that you know are wrong, you're just hardening your heart a little bit every single time, and then all of a sudden. So that's what I would say for people, man. Don't allow any small compromises, stay on the narrow path. And when you mess up, it's okay. Repent and turn and go the other way. You can repent and turn and go the other way, but it means that you need to confess your sin and forsake it because repentance means that you're actually having a change of heart or a change of mind. You're not just saying, Oh wow, I'm sorry because I got caught. It's saying I'm gonna forsake this behavior, like it talks about in Proverbs 28, 13, and it says when you do that, you'll find mercy.

SPEAKER_01: 3:50:12

That's why I love James 5.16. Confess your faults one to another and pray for each other so that you may be healed. Absolutely. You gotta find somebody you can trust and somebody you can open up to and accountability.

SPEAKER_05: 3:50:23

Gotta pull it into the light, man. That's right. Secrets, our secrets keep us sick. Yep. And um, if it stays in the darkness, man, no way. But when you finally just let that out and tell the truth to people, it's not gonna be a good thing. Freedom, yeah. Hang out with a bunch of guys like us, and we'll be like, yeah, we're gonna get a lot of Jesus. Listen to my story, and nothing really throws me off. People tell me the crazy stuff. I'm like, eh.

SPEAKER_11: 3:50:44

Yeah, I had a lady tell us one time. We took your mind, we're like, we've heard some doozy, but yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_05: 3:50:51

Well, praise God. I appreciate you guys having me on, man. It's been great to get to know you guys a little bit better. Yeah, man. God is good. Let me pray. Excited for what's ahead. Let's do it. Yeah, you too, man.

SPEAKER_11: 3:51:00

Uh Heavenly Father, Lord God, we just praise your holy name. Thank you, Jesus. Lord, I thank you that you can.

unknown: 3:51:07

Oh, God.

SPEAKER_11: 3:51:08

Thank you, God. How you love the addicts, God, how you love the broken, how you can take someone like Mike and transform them, God, someone who's trying to throw it away, someone who wants to die, that you can intervene, God, and just transform a life. Listen to what He's talking about He's doing now, God. All because of you, Lord God. Thank you, Jesus. And we thank you for that, God. Yes, God. And we thank you for every story that's like His Lord. How many addicts are out there, God, that you are intervening in their path, God, that you are drawing them to you, God. Thank you, Jesus. That you are transforming their lives so they can go back and save other addicts, God. I thank you for that, Lord God. Do it again. Yes, God. So, Father God, I just lift up redeemed and restored, both the podcast and the ministry, God. Thank you, Lord. Lord, I thank you for Mike's heart, the way he talks about giving back and how free people set people free, God, or help people find freedom in you, God. And I thank you for that, Lord. Thank you, Jesus. So, Lord, we just pray for provision over that ministry, God. We pray for more homes, God. We pray for people who would hear the vision, that buy into the vision, God, who have the resources to make this happen, God. Thank you, Jesus. Because we know, being former addicts, that this is something that is needed, God. You hear me and Rowdy talk about how we want to do something similar to that, God. That there are addicts out there who have this heart to help people see freedom, God. So pour out your provision uh on redeemed and restored, God. Let there be no lack in what they're trying to do, God. So, Lord, until the time comes when there's more homes, we praise you for it now. Yes, we give you thanks for it now because you are a God who owns a cattle on a thousand hills. You are God who owns vineyards you didn't plant and mansions you didn't build, God. Thank you, Jesus. Resources are nothing for you, God. So I thank you for what you're gonna do, Lord, and I can't wait to hear about how things are moving, how things are shaking, God. Lord, I thank you for this marriage. Thank you for Rachel, God. Thank you for her family. Thank you, how they came in and they not only just showed the forgiveness of Christ, but they exampled it to Mike. And I believe that that example is what transformed and turned his heart around, God. Thank you, God. Because he saw the love of God. He saw the forgiveness of God. So Lord, I pray that we all have hearts like that. Thank you, Jesus. That we go out there and we be Jesus to people, that we show the love of God to people, that we show the forgiveness of God to people. Yes, God, thank you, God. That's how we help people find you, God, is by living it out. Yes, God. So I thank you, Lord, Lord. I pray for his older children, God. I thank you, Lord, that you are speaking, that you are working behind the scenes, God. Yes, God. That seeds that were already planted when their youth, God, when they were going to church, is still there, God. I pray, Lord, God, that you bring people into their lives to water that seed, God, to help that seed come to a time where your spirit will harvest it and they will know the truth of the gospel, God.

SPEAKER_05: 3:53:56

Thank you, God.

SPEAKER_11: 3:53:57

And I thank you for it now in Jesus' name, God. Thank you, Jesus. Lord, I pray that people who are here in this testimony, God, they don't hear the craziness of what he went through, God, but they hear the redemption power of your son Jesus Christ, Lord God. Only that. That's what we're here to do. Thank you, Jesus. We thank you for the craziness because it shows us, God, that you even love crazy people and that you can redeem and restore those people. That's why we share, God, not to glorify the pastor, the things that we went through to be saved, this is who I was, this is what I did, and I tried to destroy it, but I met Jesus and He transformed me into a new creation, God. So I thank you for that, Lord. Let people hear that, God. Let them hear that in these stories that we try to share on this podcast, God. Let them hear that. That's what we're here to do, is to help people see that you're a loving God, that you're a redeeming God, a God who can transform, transform, and restore your people, God. Thank you, Lord. And we'll continue to praise you for it, God. I can't wait to hear more. We love you, Lord. We give you glory and honor in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen.

SPEAKER_01: 3:55:01

Hey, Mike, can you do us a favor and pray for Speak Life? Pray for me and Dad, buddy.

SPEAKER_05: 3:55:05

Absolutely, God, right now. I just lift it up. Speak Life. Arizona. God, I lift up these two men here who have just been going after the vision that they've put, uh, that you've put on their heart. God, I just thank you for their obedience. And uh, we know that um obedience shows that we're friends. Like John 15, 14 says, Jesus, he said that if you uh uh you love me if you obey my commands, that you're my friends when you obey my commands. So God, I just pray that you just wrap your arms around them, you wrap your arms around this ministry. God, I just pray that uh they reach the people that they're supposed to reach, that you just put the people in front of them, that they're supposed to hear these messages, God, these stories, these testimonies of Jesus in everyday people. God, we know that your word says in Revelation 19 that the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Which means that if he did it for us, he can do it for anybody else. God is no respecter. God, we know that you're no respecter of persons, and we thank you for everything that their ministry has already done. About a hundred episodes or a hundred plus episodes. Wow, that's just an absolute incredible miracle. I just pray that you just increase their reach, you increase their territory from their audio-only podcast to their YouTube channel, God, because we want to get this message out, these messages out to the people that need to hear it, God. And we know that you are a good God, that you are just a wonderful and miraculous God, and that you love us and that you knit us together in our mother's womb, that we are fearfully and wonderfully made because the God of all creation created us. Thank you, Lord. And we know that you put this vision on their on their heart, God. So I I pray that um that they just walk and step with your will, that they don't get too far ahead of you, but they don't get too far behind you. Thank you, Lord. They get confirmation for the things that they've got coming up uh through other people, through your word, God. We just pray that you confirm the things and that you just give them the grace that you infuse this ministry with your.