SpeakLifeAZ
The testimony of Jesus in, with, and through everyday people like us. A father and son who were addicts for over 20 yrs. You name it, WE DID IT, TOGETHER!!!! we used to use drugs together now we share about what God Has done for us to encourage the body of Christ and anyone else who may listen to this that is feeling hopeless and empty. LISTEN TO OUR STORY...and the testimony of others who feel led to share with you.... GOD BLESS YOU....TODAY WE CHOOSE TO SPEAK LIFE AZ!!!!!!!!!!
SpeakLifeAZ
Sara Pletcher Testimony
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Rage can look like “just my personality” until God puts His finger on the real wound. Sara grew up around church, but at home she carried years of verbal and physical abuse that shaped the way she saw herself, trusted people, and handled fear. What followed wasn’t just pain, it was a life pattern: anxiety that stayed unnamed, anger that exploded, and relationships that felt safer to sabotage than to risk.
We talk through the long road from an early childhood salvation moment to a faith that becomes her own, plus the specific turning points God used to get her attention, including a HeartQuest retreat where a horse, a road, and a patch of thistles became a living metaphor for getting back on track. Sara shares openly about postpartum depression, the sting of church hurt, and what it feels like to be told you can come back when you’re “all better.”
The healing centerpiece is Celebrate Recovery. If you think CR is only for drugs and alcohol, this conversation will reset that assumption fast. We unpack how CR helps with anger, anxiety, codependency, trauma, abuse, mental health struggles, and the everyday habits that quietly separate us from God. Sara also shares how recovery led to leadership, how she learned to name anxiety, why forgiveness is for your freedom, and how God is now redirecting her toward behavioral health work and counseling.
If you need hope that Jesus can meet you in the mess, press play and stay with us. Subscribe, share this with someone who needs a safe next step, and leave a review so more people can find these stories of recovery and redemption.
Welcome And Meet Sarah
SPEAKER_04All right, everybody. Welcome back to the Speak Life Bay Z podcast. Testimony of Jesus and everyday people. I'm your host, Eddie, and always with me is my son Rowdy.
SPEAKER_16Jesus! What up, dude? Let's go, bro. How you doing, man? Uh, today was a great day. It was. I got a C or R CR order in. I got uh some scheduling in for testimonies coming in August. I got uh went for a little run. Um yeah, I was gonna do the grass, but it got too hot.
SPEAKER_04Could you go, buddy?
SPEAKER_16How was your day?
SPEAKER_04It was all right, man. Boss is out of town, busy is all get up and uh Amen. I love that uh make money, money, make money, money. I love that we have good days when he's gone because maybe he'll stick on.
SPEAKER_16It shows him look, we can do this without you, boss.
SPEAKER_04No, it's been a good day, though, brother. We had some worship on today, man, and I was singing loud.
SPEAKER_16Praise God. Yeah, that does something for customers that come in, man, to a muffler shop, bud, and they hear worship playing, and it does something to me.
SPEAKER_04Amen. And it's my workplace and my atmosphere, and I like it. Amen. Yeah, God is good, man. Yeah, all right, man. Who'd you bring with you, brother?
SPEAKER_15Ooh, we got our sister Sarah. What's up, Sarah? Hey, she comes in.
SPEAKER_02Hey, I love you, sis.
SPEAKER_04Thank you for your yes, sis. We know that uh just talking earlier, this is probably not your most easiest thing for you, and we appreciate just you saying yes. And um, God made it very clear to us that when we get a chance to sit down with one of his kids to show honor to them, yeah. And we thank you for your time, man. Uh God showed us that time is not something that is resourceable, you don't get more of it, you're only allotted so much. So the fact that you're sharing a little bit of your time with us, being a mom and a wife and all that stuff, uh, thank you so much. It's it's a commodity that we precious value preciously, and I thank you that you give us a little bit of yours, man.
SPEAKER_12Oh, it's an honor. Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_16Yeah, man. Give honor where honor is due, right, Dad? Of course, man. That's what the Bible says. Um, sister, for me, um, your husband has a very special place in my heart. I know he does with you as well. That's why you said yes. Um, but uh I'm I'm just thankful for your family. I'm thankful for uh just the relationship, the friendship that we have have together in the ministry that we all serve together in. And um, I'm excited for this because I've heard uh your testimony short form in the 20 minute, but I've never actually sat down with you and really got a chance to talk with you like this. Yeah. Um, and and for for us, this this is like dad was just praying. This is kicking the devil in the face.
SPEAKER_13Yeah, man.
SPEAKER_16Um, because we're literally getting ready to talk about stuff, sis, that you're getting ready to talk about. That is probably some stuff that you're like, I'm not telling nobody that I'm not telling nobody that. And now you're getting ready to share it with the world. Um, and it's it's all because no pressure. No pressure. I wasn't nervous. Netherlands, we see you. China, we see you. Come on, man. Yeah, it's crazy. But um that's awesome. I try not to look at that stuff. I go and show him, I'm like, Dad, look at all these countries and cities. He's like, Don't show me that, dude.
SPEAKER_04I'm just here to serve God. All right, it's irrelevant to me. That's right. You do what you do, God, on that end. I'll just serve you like that.
SPEAKER_16Stay faithful.
SPEAKER_04Yep.
SPEAKER_16Um, but so in in the word, Revelations uh 12, 11, we overcome the enemy by the blood of the Lamb, the word of our testimony, and not loving our life unto death.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_16Um, we are getting ready to get into a testimony, and the testimony is something that like I I grew up in a Baptist church in the 90s, and I can remember people standing up in the pews. I want to testify. Different Baptist church. Phoenix Southern Baptist Church. And um people would get up and testify like during the week about a healing or a finance that could make.
SPEAKER_04We were just talking about that, and she said her Baptist church. If you did that, they'd kick you out. Okay.
SPEAKER_11And you walked out, and you didn't make eye contact with anybody. Just front and center.
SPEAKER_16Sticking the hem nose, man. Stick in the hamnels. The red one, page 5'11, victory in Jesus. Let's go. Oh, victory. Oh my god. This is great. Yeah. Uh let me pray, man.
Why Testimony Matters
SPEAKER_16We'll just get into this. Um Holy Spirit. Thank you, Lord. God, I thank you for the joy that is already in this room. Thank you, Lord. It's already being shared through these uh airwaves. Thank you, God. Um, God, first and foremost, we just thank you for the opportunity um to share about what you've done in our lives, God. Yep. Um, I pray for your daughter Sarah right now, Holy Spirit, just rest on her. Yeah. She yields herself, her words to you, and you move through her, God, and share your story. Yep. Um, her days have been written out, God, and you've been the one writing this story. Um, so I thank you that the people that are watching this, the people that are listening to this, God, they're gonna they're gonna get hope, they're gonna get some hope today. They're gonna know that if God you can do it for Sarah, that God you can do it for them. Thank you, Lord. Um, so I just pray that you move through this recording, through this testimony, like only you can, God. Do what you do and use this for your glory. Thank you, Lord. Pray that in Jesus' name. Amen. Um, so Sarah, when God gave this to us, it was um 2020, COVID. Seemed like the Lord gave a lot of people podcasts during COVID. Yes. Um and for the first couple of years, man, we looked like he knew what he was doing, huh? We were in my bedroom. Um, we had like a studio set up in there, and we were preaching videos and sharing Bible stories and stuff. It was it was cool.
SPEAKER_04People liked it, but it wasn't what God asked us to do.
SPEAKER_16It wasn't what God told us to do. Um, it wasn't until the end of 2022 um when we were like, what is this supposed to be, God? What do you want us to do? And very clearly, Speak Life A Z podcast, the testimony of Jesus and everyday people. Woo! I just got the God bumps. Um and it doesn't matter if you are like dad and you're down at the muffler shop all day cutting and welding and playing with cars, covered in gas today. Covered in gas today. Is that why you smell like petrol? Okay, it's not my cologne, brother. Amen. I used to love smelling that stuff at the gas bar. Oh my god. Um, but so, or like myself and here and making making the wheel spin at a church or or yourself, sis. We all are everyday people. We all have a testimony. Yep. Um, and when we meet God, when we meet Jesus, uh stuff happens in our lives. Things change. If you read the word, uh anybody who encounters Jesus, man, their lives changed. Um, so what we want to get from you today, Sarah, is just who you are, what it was like growing up, um, brothers and sisters, relationships with your family, uh, mom and dad, God was God in the home. Well, you shared a little bit about the Baptist church, what your what your childhood was like growing up, yeah. Um, school, hobbies, uh, boyfriends, you know, all the stuff, man. We just want to get to know Sarah. Yeah. Um, but I think the coolest thing that we get to encounter we we want to capture today, sis, is your personal encounter with Jesus. Um, God, God met dad in a prison cell in a lockdown unit behind the walls. God met me at Teen Challenge at 1515 West Grand on a blue two-foot altar right on the right hand side under the bass speaker. Yep. We want to know where he met you and where it got real. And it was like, wow, God is real and God loves me, and God has a plan for my life. So when you're when your faith wasn't your parents or your grandparents, but it became yours. Um, some people it's a process, other people, it's like a mark, a day. Everything changed. Um, and so what that looks like for you, and they're so personal. Yeah, they're the God knew exactly what he needed to do in your life in order to bring you to him.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, no cookie cutter god, man. Nope.
SPEAKER_16Nah, can't put that guy in a box. It's like Pastor Ben Saying. If you can think God in your own mind, yeah, you know, you you're thinking of a God that's too small, man. Um, but then like I was just saying, man, what how your life changed after your encounter with Jesus. Yeah. Um, because I know stuff changed and things happened. Um, and then and then get into uh if you want to get into your recovery story, man. And um, of course, we want to know how you met my friend. Yeah. Um I mean he's great. He he's a keeper. That's why I'm still with him after a couple of years. Well, again, gotcha beat, buddy. I'm a lot of work, but I'm surprised he's still with me, dude. I'm gonna have to cancel this one. You can't cancel me, bro. Um I'm still a lot of work. Amen. Uh he's a he's a good one. Um, but so get into your after after encounter, and then at the very end, um we've at we've got listeners, we've got followers who love to pray for our guests. Um, and so at the end, what we're gonna ask you for is what you're hoping for in the future.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_16Um, in your family, uh, maybe back into ministry, um, uh any business things, any any books, um whatever, whatever the Lord's put in you that maybe hasn't manifested yet. Yeah, we want to get those hopes into the recording and capture it um so our people can pray, but dad's gonna pray for you too. Amen. Yeah.
SPEAKER_12That sounds amazing. Ready to have some fun? No. Yes, I know the the right answer is yes.
SPEAKER_04Well, let's get into it, man.
Alaska Roots And Church Culture
SPEAKER_04What was it like growing up, Sarah?
SPEAKER_12Um, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Um Are you native to Arizona?
SPEAKER_12Great question. I'm about as native as you can get without the birth certificate from Arizona. So I was born in Alaska. Whoa. Yeah. Bird. Um, for sure, because I was born in December. So yeah. Yes.
SPEAKER_16Let's get away from the snow and go to the desert.
SPEAKER_12Yes. Um, my parents like very polar opposite uh spectrums of weather patterns. Um, no. The they um they w they um had met they met in Alaska as nurses. So they were like travel nurses.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_12Met up there and got married. Um I wouldn't necessarily say, knowing now what I know, um, I wouldn't necessarily say that they were in love with each other, but um you came along. Well, I'm convenient. I came along, no, no, no, I was after. They got married. No, I think it was uh maybe, maybe it was a little bit of that. I think my mom, I I think my mom was, you know, she thought she was in love. Um but you know, knowing what I know now, it's like, uh I don't know about that. Okay. Um, but they uh so I was born in Alaska, um, and then I have a sister, my next sister in line. There's four of us girls. Oh my goodness. Yeah, my dad, I am. My dad really wanted a boy.
SPEAKER_02Kept trying, God gave him four girls. He sure did.
SPEAKER_12He sure did. Bless his heart. Um so yeah, I am the oldest of four girls. So my myself and my sister, my next sister is we were born in Alaska, and then I had was born with some health issues. Um, and so my parents kept having to fly to Seattle um for medical treatment and stuff like that for me, and that was extremely expensive. Um so they decided to move where they had where there was convenient medical care. Um again, my parents were nurses. My dad a lot he was um, he's like a civilian working for the government, so he worked for the VA hospital. Okay. So um he wanted to go, a very ambitious man, wanted to go where the most money was, and um that's kind of what ruled him was like what's gonna make me look good status. Um so we came here because this is where he could make the most money. Um my mom was kind of a stay-at-home, she kind of kept her nursing license, but really was like a mom. Yeah, she had four girls.
SPEAKER_04With the VA up there too, or were they something different up there?
SPEAKER_12There was uh it was m the native hospital was up there, and so that's along the same lines.
SPEAKER_16Yeah, yeah. So what part of uh Alaska?
SPEAKER_12So um my parents met in uh Kotzebue, I think. No, no, no. My mom my mom had worked in Kotzebue and came down and they met in Sitka, and that's where I was born, and that's where my sister was born. So um Sitka is one of the little islands off of the lower.
SPEAKER_16Anchor, right by kind of Anchorage down there?
SPEAKER_12It's like um those little islands that are like the um right off of Canada and like Washington State. So that's in that area. Okay.
SPEAKER_04So how long did you guys stay there?
SPEAKER_12Um I think I was like almost four.
SPEAKER_04What was it like living on an island?
SPEAKER_12That was pretty great. I mean, I don't remember a whole lot. I have some I have like a vivid memory. Um we ha we lived in a um trailer. This was the 70s, and back in those days, living in a trailer was not what it could be today. Yeah. Um it was if you live in a trailer, God loves you. Yeah, trailers are great. And sometimes I wish I lived in like a mobile home. So we had a mobile home and it was um easier to take care of than a big old house.
SPEAKER_04For sure.
SPEAKER_12I would imagine. I mean, again, I was a baby, so I don't you know, but I live in a house now and I think a mobile home would be amazing.
SPEAKER_00That's not bad.
SPEAKER_12Um, so they um so yeah, I I remember there was a window from my bedroom that I could see that faced the ocean. And um I remember being able to see orcas. Um yeah, because they're right there. I mean they they live there. So um that is a very vivid because I asked my mom that and she's like yes, why would how and I go, I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Wow.
SPEAKER_12I don't know. That's tough. So yeah, so um we again I'm old. I'm older than I look. I'm old. So I got a lot of life left ahead of you. Most of my life, most of my life. Um uh yeah, growing up here, so then my Where'd you guys move when you came to here?
SPEAKER_04Phoenix? Scottsdale. Really? Yes. All right. Okay, I gotta ask. North Scottsdale or South Scottsdale, because it makes a difference. South. Okay. Yep. We lived off of it.
SPEAKER_02Everybody that's in North Scottsdale, God bless you. So a seed.
SPEAKER_04You know what I know what I'm talking about. I do.
SPEAKER_11Went to Pima Elementary.
SPEAKER_04The ones that aren't really Scottsdale, but they like to say they're Scottsdale because they're actually in Scottsdale, but it's actually like still the hood.
SPEAKER_12It's it it was uh maybe in the the 80s, it wasn't super hood. It was fairly okay.
SPEAKER_04Now it's a little bit of a well that's before it expanded and the rich people come up with more. Yeah, you know. Back then it was still kind of Scottsdale. We were like, I live in Scottsdale.
SPEAKER_12That's I live. I I love where everybody's great wherever they live.
SPEAKER_16For everybody that doesn't know about Scottsdale, it's it's uh it can be a little snobbish. Yeah, it's where the pretty people live. Pretty people with money.
SPEAKER_04It costs money to look up pretty sure. Listen, no judgment.
SPEAKER_12No judgment.
SPEAKER_16We love all our Scottsdale people. Again, sow a seed.
SPEAKER_12All God's children, we love them. Amen. We love them all. Um, yeah, so I grew up there. My my parents went to a little, it was a Baptist church, it was like a neighborhood Baptist church. Um if I remember correctly, it was of the Baptist General Conference. So the General Conference Baptists out of Minnesota. So we're not Southern. They weren't they weren't of the Southern Conference. Um, and so very conservative.
SPEAKER_04There's quite a few different branches of yeah, yeah, yeah. Pastor had a great joke the other day. Oh my god. About are you this sect? Oh, yeah, okay. Are you this sect?
SPEAKER_05I'm like, whoa, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04So I just followed Jesus. A lot of different divisions and branches. Right, right, right. So let me ask you this knowing that, were your so when your parents were traveling nurses, was it because of their spirituality that they wanted to travel and do good, or no?
SPEAKER_12No, it was like my mom wanted to go have an adventure. Like she grew up um when she was in elementary school, she had a teacher who had gone on vacation to Alaska, showed them pictures, and my mom was like, I'm gonna go there. Wow. And so she figured out how to get there. My dad, um, I'm not really sure, probably the money.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it was really because we have nurses and doctors here that travel to like Mexico for medical ministry and to Uganda and things like that. So I was just curious if that was a good idea.
SPEAKER_12That was not that was not their thing. Um my parents were Lutheran when we when we lived in Alaska. Um and then when we came down here, and I say it in my testimony, like my dad it for us going to church was a very it was a status thing. Like we it made us look good, it made us look like we're, you know, I didn't grow up churchy, so I still don't understand.
SPEAKER_04He was a heathen. I mean, I've been to the Bible college, so I get what the divisions are for, but I still don't understand the Lutheran Baptist. I'm like, this is it's all to me, it's just silly.
SPEAKER_12I think this is my own opinion, so don't anybody freak out on Rowdy. Bring it on, dude. But I think Lutherans are a more relaxed um version of Catholics. So I think they're just a little more chilled, yeah.
SPEAKER_04I'm kind of thankful that I didn't God didn't draw me out of darkness till my 30s. Because I missed out on all the religion. Yeah, crazy 90s. That was being bred to a lot of kids growing up in religion. Turn and burn. Yeah. And so when I look at things like that, I'm like, who cares that you're Lutheran Baptist, Methodist, whatever you are? Do you love Jesus? Right. It's all that matters. You know what I mean?
unknownOh, excuse me.
SPEAKER_04Oh, you're good.
SPEAKER_16My uh I got a my my real father and my stepmom have adopted eight. Eight, fostered and adopted eight. Wow. And they all have grown up in North Valley Christian Academy, Lutheran. It's a it's a Lutheran school, yeah. Um, which is cool because I I personally didn't get the father that he is now for all these kids. Sure. For a reason, bud. But yeah, it's good. Made you stronger.
SPEAKER_04Made you a yard today. Praise God.
SPEAKER_16Love you, Dad.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, so um, yeah, my my mom taught um a bajillion Sunday school classes and was like in charge of the women's ministry there, and we were friends with the pastor and his wife and their kids and stuff.
SPEAKER_16And um, so you were really involved.
SPEAKER_12Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I had a Jesus encounter when I was five and a half years old after a very, very um, like it was a great BBS. Yeah. I came home and I was like, oh, um, they were talking about Jesus and I would like him to also live in my heart and I needed to do that. And my mom was like, All right, let's go. And so we went in my bedroom and um I remember sitting on the sitting on the side of the bed, and my mom was sitting with me, and we just prayed, and um, I was like, Oh, okay, so I'm saved. And she's like, I mean, yeah, but like there's other you're gonna be there's gonna be other stuff. And I was like, what do I gotta do? And she's like, I mean nothing right now, you're fine. And I was like, oh, okay. So um, yeah, I my church had us take classes to get baptized. Um so I was baptized at 12. Um, I did it another two times because um I really was rebellious.
SPEAKER_05I've been baptized seven times. Religious folks' heads are spinning right now, just so you know.
SPEAKER_12It doesn't take more than one. I know, I know, I know. And I have said that too. I'm like, you don't have to do it anymore. Like it's it's a one it's a one-time thing. But if you feel like you commit to bingo. Um, and I did
Growing Up With An Abusive Father
SPEAKER_12I did uh because I was I was dumb. I was a dumb kid, and I um but so my dad was I in hindsight, I see now that my dad was just very, very frustrated and did not know how to articulate his frustration except through abusive measures. So my dad was super verbal, um incredibly physical. Um he was a yeller, um, or or he was like super narcissistic, where he was like, he like under his breath, or like only you could hear, but like he would say. Just the right thing, and you lose your mind. Wow. And so then you look like the crazy person. And he's like, I don't know what got into her. Like, what is happening? Oh, absolutely. He was spectacular at that.
SPEAKER_16Um, I have to say something. Parents, the Bible says, do not provoke your kids into wrath. Well, I mean, yes.
SPEAKER_13Just the word of wisdom. Scriptural. Um, that is scriptural.
SPEAKER_12Um, my but he did it to my mom too. And then he'd be like, I just I'm I'm I don't know. And people would feel so Ron, we're so sorry. We're so sorry that you're married to such a crazy person. We're so sorry that you're like, oh my gosh, you have four daughters. This is crazy.
SPEAKER_04And also he mastered that.
SPEAKER_12Oh, he was the best. He was the best. He was the best. Um at it, which is not a good thing. No. Um so he just and he was so it's not even like it's not even the physical stuff, because that goes away. Like that goes away, but it is the words. You know, like people talk about the lies that go on in your head and this this whispers. Those words were actually out loud verbalized to me. Like I genuinely thought I was a stupid person. Like I genuinely thought that I did not have a brain in my head. Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Like, I had no idea I I truly had no idea that I was intelligent.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Wow.
SPEAKER_12No clue. No clue.
SPEAKER_04I just saw a thing once and it was talking about it said, parents, don't be the voice, the inner critic in your children's right. You know what I mean? Because that's what that's the same. Because a lot of times that's what they're hearing. For sure. It's the parents. For sure. And and sometimes it's the other kids, but dom predominantly it's things that their parents say is what's echoing in their mind.
SPEAKER_12For sure.
SPEAKER_04It's they can they hear it's like you were saying, it's just playback. Yeah. Oh, absolutely.
SPEAKER_12Absolutely. And the enemy loves that. Oh, remember when your dad, who he's your dad, he loves you.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_12He said that, so that's gotta be true. Um, and I would I just felt that. I felt that and my mom was great. My mom was a great mom. I mean, that woman raised four girls nearly on her own because my my was 18 when my parents finally got divorced. Wow. My mom was like, I've had enough. Yeah, we've we're done, we're done. Yeah, this is enough.
SPEAKER_16Um how old were the other ones? So you were 14? I'm I'm 18.
SPEAKER_12Um, my next sister is 16, so three of us are 22 months apart from each other.
SPEAKER_14Okay.
SPEAKER_12So um 18, 16, um, 14, and then I've got an eight-year-old sister. So the They're like, let's try one more time for a boy. Yes. Another girl. That's exactly it.
SPEAKER_04And and that's how I got here. I was the last shot at a girl. I mean five years after my other siblings. Right.
SPEAKER_12So, and so my mom had my mom was older, and this is 1986 when my youngest sister was born. Um, so they they were like, Well, let's do an ultrasound, make sure everything's good because you know you are older. And um, so they did an ultrasound, and the ultrasound showed a boy. Oh, wow. So my dad immediately went out and getting all the boys. Well, he he had his procedure done because he was like, I'm done. I've got my boy now. Okay. And then my sister came out and he was like, No, no, no, they're like, Mr. Children's, you have my mom had us in the delivery room. Yeah, she's like, I want the I want the girls in the delivery room, I want them to experience this. Also, I think she was like, watch this so that you do not have children out of, you know, don't don't be dumb. Yum.
SPEAKER_16He came home talking all about my little brother's birth. I was like, what the heck? Yeah, it's I've never been in one and never seen one. That's real. With a point on the head and all this like what's the realest thing.
SPEAKER_04It's also one of the most beautiful things. For my part. Right. I didn't have to push it out or do all the time.
SPEAKER_12My mom is amazing. I watched my mom, I was like, that woman is a beast.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_12I mean, that woman built a human being, yeah, and then got that human being into the world. Like insane. Um, my dad, I will never forget this. Doctors are there, we're all in the room. Um, Mr. Childress, congratulations. It's a girl. And he's like, no, no, no, we're having a boy.
SPEAKER_02He's gonna argue with the doctor. It's a girl, sir.
SPEAKER_12Uh, there is there's only one in there.
SPEAKER_16Yeah, yeah. This is who she is. You have a girl. Yeah.
unknownTa-da.
SPEAKER_12Um so it got real uncomfortable in the apartment. So my mom had a one of her friends was with us, like, because she was not going to be able to take care of us. And my dad was a problem. So she had one of her friends in the room with us, and so her friend's like, girls, let's go get frozen yogurt at eight in the morning. Yeah, my sister's born at eight in the morning. They're like, let's go get let's get out of this room. So, um, so that was a very vivid like moment where I was like, oh, this is gonna be a problem. So I for my whole entire growing up, I was like, oh, my dad hates us because we're girls.
SPEAKER_14Wow.
SPEAKER_12No, my dad hated us because we were not what he wanted us to be. And we're mouthy, we all have our own opinion. And he wanted docile, like well-behaved, shy. Yeah, no. Really? Um, so we were mouthy, we talked back, we did all the things kids do.
SPEAKER_16And something's telling me that that's a lot like how he was.
SPEAKER_12I don't think no uh no no no. My dad, my dad had um, he still does, he has epilepsy, and so my grandparents were incredibly hard on him. Okay, and I believe he took all of that and it just he never healed from it. Yeah, and it just followed him, as you know, like all of that stuff comes with you, and if you don't do anything with it, it's gonna happen generally.
SPEAKER_04Do you think his parents were verbally Oh, a thousand percent? Really?
SPEAKER_12Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_04My grandfather was incre he was the things that because we usually mimic what we see in our parents as we become parents. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I was until my wife said you're just like your dad, and I was like, Oh yeah, no, we are not, we are changing everything right now.
SPEAKER_12My dad felt he was better than his dad because my dad went to college and his dad did not go to college. Now, um the there are some a couple of variations of stories, so I'm not entirely sure what's going on if my grandfather is first generation American from Germany or if he came over from Germany. I do not, I'm not a hundred percent on that. But um they're they were just very driven and hardened people, and because my dad had a medical um problem, it was just the it was the worst. It was the worst for him. And so um, so it was followed.
SPEAKER_04That was probably like looked down on. Um, well, they were in Washington State, so I mean his dad being um You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_12Like, no, I hear what you're saying. I don't think that that was the case. I don't think that was the case. All right. Um I would hope that's not the case.
SPEAKER_16I don't think they would be hard because the kid has a medical thing. Right. Uh okay.
SPEAKER_12Well, and yeah, they were just very like it was hard. I I think. And I did know I knew him. Yeah, you know, we'd been around. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04My grandparents that came over back in the beginning were like railroad layers and things like that. Workers. I mean, that was hard. Yeah.
SPEAKER_12He was a he was a businessman, but he was a farmer, and they had they worked land, and my dad couldn't work land because he there he had some medical skills. Yeah, he couldn't do it.
SPEAKER_04And back then they wanted boys to help plow.
SPEAKER_12So if you if you couldn't do it, then you were lazy. Yeah. If you you know, and so if you weren't constantly working all the time, then you're lazy. Um so I and so there's a part of me that feels bad for him, but at the same time, I'm like, nah, because you could have you could have changed. You could have changed. Yeah, you you could have.
SPEAKER_16Um I want to ask you about the VBS encounter with Jesus.
Salvation As A Kid Versus Walk
SPEAKER_12Yeah.
SPEAKER_16Because it seemed to me like that was very real for you coming home from V VBS. Yeah. And so, like myself, when I when I went through all my crap and I came out the other side, I had uh some things that I had to wrestle with God about, and one of them was my salvation. And I was like, when when did I become yours? When when was I yours? And he showed me that in our Baptist church as a kid in one of the VBS summers uh vacation bible schools. They all called us up and they all gave us LADMO bags to all the kids that raised their hands. And I literally saw myself at the front of the red altar with my hand raised, holding my bag. I was like, oh, I've been yours since I was a little kid.
SPEAKER_12Right.
SPEAKER_16But it's different salvation and actually walking with Jesus and following Jesus.
SPEAKER_12One thousand percent. Completely different. 1000%. I say it in my testimony, like I became a Christian. I was saved at five and a half. That doesn't mean I knew what that meant. That doesn't mean I was like amazing. Yeah. Because I wasn't. Because I was in process. Because I wasn't. Yeah.
SPEAKER_16Thank God the grace is sufficient.
SPEAKER_12Right. And I think if I if I if I really think about it, I I think it had a lot to do with like, hey, God is our father, my father was not great. Um and I have never um there's a there's a lesson in um like in the step studies and stuff, and there's like, well, what's the difference between your heavenly father and your earthly father? And what are your similarities? And I'm like, I mean, my dad was a provider when he, you know, was. Um and that's about it.
SPEAKER_09That's about it.
SPEAKER_12And I never was, I never put the anger I had for my dad for the things that he did. I never put that on God. Like I never was like, and maybe it was that I didn't really think of him as a father at that time. It was like, he's God, God is God very far away. And um, there's Jesus and Holy Spirit, and I know you know those guys, um, and God is is far away. I think I think I'll say this. I know that God has been with me since the beginning, since forever. Um I can see now looking back moments where I should not be here, yeah. Um dumb decisions um that could have and should have taken me out, where God was like, yeah, I'd really love to see where this goes. I already know where this is. I'm gonna keep you around for a little bit. I would love for you to see where this goes. Um so I thank you, God. I think, oh, for sure. And like you, like you were saying, um, some people have like an one like a super encounter. I think I've had many encounters. I think I've I'm that process person where I've had moments where God's like, hey, uh, I'd like you to remember that I'm still with you. Um hi. Um and I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's great. Let's go. We're gonna go over here. And he's like, oh, okay.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_12Okay, well, I'm gonna very bad, I'm like, let's come. Um, so I've had I've had several moments where um I'm like, oh, okay. Um, but I think
HeartQuest And The Horse Showdown
SPEAKER_12and I don't want to skip ahead too far, um, but I do vividly remember like a really, really good encounter with God um probably back in 2015. Um I think I was very married. Um, I had two children. I was not in good shape. I was um Are we talking physically, mentally? Mentally, oh yeah, for sure, mentally. Um, I think I was in like a rock bottom moment. I'd already had my invitation to CR to celebrate recovery, which thank God for that. Um we'd been going for probably a year, almost a year by the time I was, but I took a trip to Texas um with my sponsor. She had me go on this trip. It was like off the grid, um, like a heart, like heart quest through Fellowship of the Sword. Have you heard of them? I haven't. It's fantastic. Um, it's out of Texas, they're great. Um, but they're basically like a deeper encounter with God. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're like, you are in the middle of nowhere. We were on a horse ranch. So um these people like gifted their ranch. So like you get we stayed in the house, um, we had access to everything, everything. Yeah, but we couldn't leave.
SPEAKER_07Wow.
SPEAKER_12Um, and we couldn't use our phones because there's no there's no cell, yeah, which was great. Yeah, also horrible because I have two babies at that point, and like the which it's so you just went with your sponsor alone to test.
SPEAKER_16Yeah, with a group of people, like it was all groups. All women, yeah.
SPEAKER_12It was all women, yeah. So so men go on a quest and women go on a heart quest. It's uh but it's great, and I loved it, and and I also hated it all at the same time, but it was super, super good. But I remember it was we had a fasting day, and so you're out in the middle of nowhere, and you have a workbook and you have activities that you're supposed to do, and I remember like trying to do this one activity, it was a puzzle, and none of the pieces fit together, but they look like they're supposed to fit together, and so I'm arguing, I'm like, why won't this fit together? And while I'm working on this puzzle, a whole group of horses come over, and I'm under a tree. Yeah, you're by yourself, by myself, um, with God. This puzzle that's frustrating you're just pissing me off. Sorry. No, you're good, good, and a horse comes over. Now, I I'm not afraid of horses, but also I'm not trying to get in an argument with a horse. However, that day I decided I was going to get in an argument because the horse did not want me to be where I was. I was sitting in his spot. Yeah. And so he was like pawing at me. He's like, I need you to move, I'm gonna need you to move. And I was like, hang on, just give me a second, because I've got to f I gotta finish this puzzle thing, and then and then I'll move. And the horse was like, okay, maybe I just need to be a little bit louder. And so he's like coming at me and like his nose is like high. Yeah. And I'm like, two seconds, like, let me finish this puzzle and then and then I'll skid addle. And he's like, I'm for real, like I'm going to sit on you if you do not move.
SPEAKER_16Did he start doing he did?
SPEAKER_12He was like, he was like, missed dig in, like, you know, move. Yeah. And then he's looking at like a big thing.
SPEAKER_16Is this your first encounter with a horse?
SPEAKER_12No, but it is my first like argument with a horse. Like I did when I got home, I was like, so I got in a fight with a horse, and Ryan's like, this feels very on brand. If you didn't get in a fight with anything, I'd be surprised. So he's looking off at his group of guys, like his group of horses, and he's like, and so like another horse comes over, and I'm like, oh, shh, shh, shh, okay. So I'm gathering all my stuff over, trying to get it, trying to gather up everything. And then we've got like this little tiny adorable backpack. It's adorable, and everything is supposed to be in it for the day. And I'm like trying to gather everything up, and the horse is like, I need you move. I need you to get out of the way.
SPEAKER_16Yeah.
SPEAKER_12I the same one or his friend. No, like, well, the friend is coming over, and I'm like, I'm not trying to get in a fight with two horses. I mean, what I'm not an overachiever, guys. Come on. So um, I do move, but and then immediately upon me moving, the horse decides it's gonna pee. And it was like, uh, you're never gonna sit in my spot ever again. Ever again.
SPEAKER_02And I was like, Okay, win.
SPEAKER_12And I'm I apologize. Mark in my territory. Literally, I apologize. I was like, I'm so sorry, I did not realize. I'm totally picturing all this. It really happened. It really happened. Now, the other thing that was happening to me on this trip and and on this fast day was I found myself drawn to there was like a road, you it's quintessential, like you know, that one road that leads to the house, yeah, that's the road that I found myself sitting close to. I didn't really venture off too far out in any of the fields. Um, even when I was under the tree, the tree was near the road.
SPEAKER_15Okay.
SPEAKER_12And there were thistles everywhere. Thistles, and I was like, so this is so weird. Like I have been off the path. Yeah, I have been off the path forever. Oh even being a follower, I've tried to do my own thing. Yeah, like I'll be close to the path, I'll be like right over here. Oh wow, I'll see the path. Yeah, I got you. But I'm gonna be I'm just not on it.
SPEAKER_16I'm gonna be over here. I just want to do my thing.
SPEAKER_12Right, I'm gonna do this my way. And God's like, we're gonna do this my way. Um so I was like, oh, I just got in a fight with a horse. And God's like, yeah. Yes. You did. And you lost. Got it, got it. This is me fighting with you, and he's like, Yes.
SPEAKER_07Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_12And I'm gonna need you to stop. Wow. And I was like, Well, are you gonna pee on me? And he's like, I'm not.
SPEAKER_02You're gonna pee on me, God. No, he's like, No, it starts raining. It did rain. Well, he just had to let go. Well, Rowdy, it did rain that day. That's great. It did rain. That's great.
SPEAKER_12Um, and I'm not saying that rain is gonna be but I was like, what am I supposed to be, what am I supposed to be doing? And he's like, I need you to see where you're supposed to be, and I need you to get there. Wow. I need you to get there. And the thistles, it was like they're growing out of nothing. Like nothing. Yeah. And I was like, oh, I've been doing that. And he's like, Yes. Wow, wow. I'm gonna, I'm I'm I really need you to like get on the road, get here with me. And I was like, okay, okay, okay. Um, yeah.
SPEAKER_16So I love how so it I it just it's cool how God uses animals. God uses he God used a rock in the Bible, God used a donkey, God used a horse for Sarah.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, it was, yeah, I do I did. I was like, Ray. Uh he's like, how do how was a trip? And I go, I got in a fight with a horse. He goes, Yeah. That feels that feels very on brand.
SPEAKER_04That's so awesome.
SPEAKER_12Um, yeah.
School Struggles And Using Humor
SPEAKER_16Let's go back to elementary and middle school. Um, how was school for you? Were you an overachiever in school? No, no, no.
SPEAKER_12Again, I did not use the brain Scott gave me. Uh, I'm an idiot. Uh, I will never amount to anything.
SPEAKER_16Um this is all stuff you believe.
SPEAKER_12Because they were being said. Math was not my jam. It still isn't, but guess what? I'm doing okay.
SPEAKER_16He loves it.
SPEAKER_12I did. I'm married in numbers goddamn. I love grammar. Okay. Oh, okay. I hate grammar. I love spelling, words.
SPEAKER_16I gotta fix some slides in C R. There's this T-H-E-I-R-S. Not I before the E.
SPEAKER_05Whatever, dude.
SPEAKER_16It makes a difference when you're looking at the screen. I said I before the E.
SPEAKER_04I know what it says though.
unknownWe have a spelling.
SPEAKER_04Have you ever seen those things where they mix the words up and it says if you can read this, you're like, uh-huh. I can read that. Yeah. I know exactly what that says. So spelling is irrelevant.
SPEAKER_10I would disagree with that. Dad, there's a never mind. Now numbers still love you.
SPEAKER_04Now numbers have to be precise.
SPEAKER_10For sure.
SPEAKER_04Because two and two doesn't equal five. Correct. But D-H-I-E-R still says there. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_12I mean you still read it the same way.
SPEAKER_04Okay. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02I love you, buddy. But also no. No.
SPEAKER_12He's gonna do what he wants to do. No, and I get it. And do and please do. And please do. But yeah, so I struggled. I struggled so bad.
SPEAKER_16And um did you have friends?
SPEAKER_12I had, yeah, I had friends. I was um I was gregarious. I was, you know, a funny kid. I used humor to um deflect. So I I I can see that I was like, oh, I'm I didn't I wasn't trying to be funny or the class clown. I just saw things, you know, you can see it and you just say it. Like I made getting into an argument with a horse, a large animal sound hilarious. One because it is, it's ridiculous. Um, no one should ever get in a fight with a horse, also. Please don't do that. That is not don't do that.
SPEAKER_04They have very big teeth.
SPEAKER_16They're powerful animals.
SPEAKER_12They are very yes. Um, yeah, so I don't know about that. I did not find that to be no.
SPEAKER_15Well, these are wild horses, or these are horses on the ranch. They were horses on the ranch. Broken, yeah.
SPEAKER_16Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04You see videos where horses come up to people and like puts their head on them and stuff. Oh yeah. So they can be very gentle as well.
SPEAKER_16But they are sitting in this one's peace box. Yeah, I gotta go to the bathroom and you're in my way.
SPEAKER_04I thought for sure you were gonna go there with that story and be like there was like ants on the ground or something. No. I was like, damn, I must- I thought the horse was gonna save you from the city.
SPEAKER_12No, I don't know if there were because I put a tarp down because I'm not trying to touch nature. I don't want to touch it. Really? I'll I'll go in it. I will go in nature, yeah, but I do not want to touch nature.
SPEAKER_04Okay. Do you like grass?
SPEAKER_12I do.
SPEAKER_04Do you walk barefooted in grass?
SPEAKER_12No.
SPEAKER_16Oh, she puts a blanket down, maybe.
SPEAKER_12I I wear a flip-flop. I also wear rain boots on the beach. Do it. I do not want to touch sand.
SPEAKER_16Rain boots on the beach? Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_12Interesting. I don't touch sand.
SPEAKER_16That's gotta be quite the sight.
SPEAKER_12Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_16Will you go in the water? In the rain boots?
SPEAKER_12Oh, well, I mean, like, if a wave comes to me, then yes, I'm going to get in the water. Yes. But that doesn't mean I want, like, I'm not trying to.
SPEAKER_13Yeah.
SPEAKER_12I'm not trying to. I like water and I like ocean and I like all of that stuff. But I'm not trying to touch it.
SPEAKER_16I'm not trying to touch it.
SPEAKER_04I don't like the ocean. You don't know what the hell's in that thing.
SPEAKER_16Some big fish. I'm not trying to die.
SPEAKER_04Some really big fish.
SPEAKER_12Okay. I'm not trying to die today.
SPEAKER_04I've seen too many videos of people who were just like ankle deep in water and got stung by jellyfish. Right. I'm like, no, thanks. I don't know what's out there. I fucking.
SPEAKER_12That's why I wear my beach boots.
SPEAKER_16My beach boots. Sarah, I went to the Philippines and swam with a fish that was bigger than this room. No. It was instant. This thing was bigger than a yellow school bus. And not the short ones, the long ones.
SPEAKER_11You are you are amazing. I saw your pictures. I was like, It was crazy.
SPEAKER_04You're incredible. I think he's mentally ill. Where was that? Nobody gets in the water with a fish second.
SPEAKER_11I mean, I wouldn't.
SPEAKER_16I was in Mexico with my mom, and we went out to a thing, and we're on the way back. And I just was like, hey Cap, can you stop the boat out here? He's like, What? I was like, can you stop the boat? I want to jump in. And he stops the boat. So I jump in. I'm kind of swimming around and all of a sudden it clicks. Wait a sec. It's really, really dark out here. Like the water. It's real dark. I'm like, okay, let's go back. I get up on the boat. I'm like, hey Cap, how deep was that out there? He's like 8,000 feet. I'm like, oh God. And they come this way. There's some big fish out there.
SPEAKER_04They don't come this way at you. They come this way. You will not see them coming up.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, and their mouth is open.
SPEAKER_04Oh, yeah. And they love something up there flailing.
SPEAKER_12I believe that is what happened with Jonah. I do believe that.
SPEAKER_05He was flailing. For real. The bitch was like, oh, food. Yeah.
SPEAKER_12For real. I do believe that. Yeah, I had friends.
SPEAKER_04Um extracurative
Ballet Life And The Cost Of Pointe
SPEAKER_04activities? Yeah. Any hobbies, sports?
SPEAKER_12I was a dancer. Oh. Yeah. I was a I was a ballet dancer. So I danced for 20 years. Really? I retired when I was 22. Retired? Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_16Like prepared for the case. Did you go to college for it?
SPEAKER_12I did not. Okay.
SPEAKER_16I know that there are scholarships to certain schools for that.
SPEAKER_12I dropped out of college. Oh. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Okay. You made it to college though.
SPEAKER_12I did. Barely. I I think that scholarship or did you pay your way? No, no, no. I was Pell Grant and all that stuff.
SPEAKER_04Did you graduate high school at least?
SPEAKER_12I did. I graduated high school. Where from? McClintock and Tempe, Road Chargers.
SPEAKER_16He's a Mesa High Jack Rabbit. All right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_11I understand.
SPEAKER_16So do I.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_04I get it. At least you weren't Mountain View. No. Oh, the Pink Belly Football Team. If you were Mountain View, that'd be a different story. Tauros. I'd get up and I'd I'd have to throw the iPad at you or a water bottle or something. I'm just kidding. I understand.
SPEAKER_14I understand. Dad! She's our guest. That's all right. It's not the worst thing that's ever happened to me.
SPEAKER_16Oh, God. No, no, no. He doesn't throw things anymore. That was part of the thing he was.
SPEAKER_04You were on this side of okay. That makes more sense. Because when I think of South, that was more Tempe.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, I grew I so um I mortaline to Tempe. Oh, did you? Yeah, I lived in like when we moved here, I moved to Scottsdale. And then we moved to Tempe. All right. Um so that we could be closer. My parents put us in Christian school. I grew up going to Christian. Yeah, I went to Grace Community um from third to eighth grade. Um they were great.
SPEAKER_04Let me ask you this. Because a lot of I asked this a lot of people who grew up in Christian homes. Would you s obviously your dad didn't, would you say your mom exemplified God in the home?
SPEAKER_11Yes.
SPEAKER_04Because there's a lot of people who grow up in church and mom and dad are Sunday goers. Yeah. But there ain't no God Monday through Saturday drinking, cussing, smoking cigarettes, and so they don't really know what it's like to walk out of debates and it's a good thing.
SPEAKER_12And I would say, yeah, and I would say that depending on who my parents were around, my dad would kind of put on his church face. Yeah, he was really good with the Sunday face. Um my mom was phenomenal. Like she was doing it. She was, yeah, she was. She was legitimately doing it.
SPEAKER_16Did you ever see mom like praying or reading? Oh, yeah. My mom prayed with us all the time.
SPEAKER_12All the time, read the Bible to us, read, you know, she she was she was about it.
SPEAKER_04So your mom was doing living that life. All right. Okay. Yeah. Because that makes a difference. You know that, right? For sure. It really does, yeah.
SPEAKER_12For sure. Yeah. For sure. Um, and you can tell, like you, you can tell when they aren't. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Oh, yeah. Yeah. So but it's amazing how many people you will ask who grew up in church if they have mom and dad exemplified in the home. And I guarantee you the numbers, a percentage is pretty high that mom and dad didn't.
SPEAKER_11Right.
SPEAKER_04It was just like you said, it was a checkbox that they went to church on Sundays. For sure. But they were not living right that way at the house. You know what I mean? Yeah.
SPEAKER_12Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So then we wonder why we have this whole generation of people who just check boxes and don't really you know what I mean? Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_12Like I'm just doing a job. Yeah. And I'm out. That's what mom and dad did.
SPEAKER_04So that's what I he's going to the bathroom, just so you know. He does it all the time.
SPEAKER_12I'm not I'm not offended at all. Not at all.
SPEAKER_04Some people look at me like, what is he doing?
SPEAKER_12Gets up and goes. He does.
SPEAKER_04But that's awesome. I'm glad your mom did that for you.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was that was good.
SPEAKER_16Um Jesus. You gotta mute that, bud. I thought I did. That's why the iPad, the watch is going off. I had to make sure the video was still baby.
SPEAKER_12Oh, that's your wife. It was. That's your lady.
SPEAKER_16Send her a text. We're recording. So, okay. Um, you grow up. Yeah, mom is you guys, mom's serving at church. Um you and your sisters are going. When you guys went on Sunday, did dad join you?
SPEAKER_12Um, yeah. So my dad worked nights. He was a night shift nurse. And so if he worked Saturday night, then he did not come with us on Sunday. Um, but if he didn't, then he would come with us. Um so yeah, he was he was around some of it. Now I I say I grew I was a kid when I went to the Baptist church. My I was probably um when my parents I think we were still going there when I was 15, 16 years old. To the Baptist church. To the Baptist church in Scottsdale. So we would drive from Tempe to this church in Scottsdale, um which was fine.
SPEAKER_16But um Grace Community, that was a Christian school that didn't have a church.
SPEAKER_09No, it had yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_12Yeah. Oh wow. We just didn't know.
SPEAKER_16Didn't go there as a family. Uh-uh. Okay. Um, but so And that's Christian, not Lutheran or Correct, yeah, non-denominational.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we when my parents got divorced, they didn't necessarily kick us out of the church, but they were like, you could tell there was a very definite shift in the like, oh, we're being treated differently.
SPEAKER_04Oh really? Isn't that crazy? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well you're 18, you can sense that and know that now, right? At the time.
SPEAKER_12At the time at the time, I yeah, I could see it. I didn't understand what was going on. Um, I knew the pastor didn't like my sisters and I only because we were girls and he had boys, and he didn't want he didn't want us to um uh like mess with his boys, and I was like, okay. All right. Um so that was very strange. That was I do remember that. But and apologies have been made and everyone's happy. Um but yeah, so uh when I when after my parents got divorced, my mom moved us to um a church a a church in Tempe because we lived in Tempe and she's like I'm not driving to Scottsdale anymore. Um and so it was a sm it's a small church. Um and I do you remember the name of it? I do remember the name.
SPEAKER_16Okay. What was the church that you went to in Tempe? Is that the one Pastor Tom was at?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that was on Hardy and University. I forget what it was called Cross Point, I think, something like that. Okay, yeah, yeah. First church I ever been to.
SPEAKER_12Did you like it?
SPEAKER_04Well outside of Phoenix Community Church. That was my first church that I actually went to myself. Uh-huh. I loved it. Yeah. I'm still with my I'm still with that pastor. Explain, explain what happened
Divorce Fallout And A Pastor Who Cared
SPEAKER_04when I was in jail and what so I go to jail, I hear from God. First time God's ever audibly spoke to me. And his words were if you don't build your life upon the rock, my son Jesus Christ, these patterns will continue. I've been in and out of jail and prisons for quite some time. And so when I go to jail, I don't get out. That's a real for quite a while. And so they let me out with some like He's an overachiever. When they let me if I'm going, I'm going.
SPEAKER_11Yeah, no. If you're gonna do it, I'm daddy, that's all in.
SPEAKER_04I'm not just gonna go full board or I'm not even bothered. Right. They let me out. I take off running because it's gonna make a made mistake. You know what I mean? And I'm literally running down 35th Avenue as far as I can until I can't get, you know, can't run no more. But I get home and I'm like, I can't go tell my wife, what God told me. And so I start looking for this church, and I found this church called Cross Point, and and I walk into the church. You gotta remember, I'm tattooed head to toe. And a few churches that I have been to, it's like they look you up and down, like what he's doing here, you know what I mean? And I walk into this church and the pastor walks over. I'm so glad you're here. Nice to meet you. Um, what do you we'd like to take you out to lunch and get to know you? And I'm like, what the hell is going on right now? You know what I mean? It's like it's different than any other church I've ever been. And so the next Sunday we show up to church, they take us out to lunch. Dude's like, coolest dude ever, right? And he's a real one. So we I go there probably for eight months. You know what I mean? Yeah. And this dude, I lived in Tempe on uh University, just uh what's that what was that street right there?
SPEAKER_16University in like Hardy.
SPEAKER_04At L something like that right there, anyways. And this dude lived in Awatuke. Church was right down the street from me. So he we had Bible study in Chandler. He would drive from Awatuke to Tempe to pick me up, take me to Chandler to Bible study. Oh for gonna say drive me back home and have to drive all the way to Awatuki. And I'm like, I'm like, you know what I mean? Right. And I don't know. It was just it was one of those things where the dude, and I told him this one time, I said, You were the exemplified Christ in human form that I've ever seen. Some of the things that you did for me, nobody's ever done for me. And so thank you, Pastor Tom. They catch up to me. I I I'm going to prison. Dude comes to my court dates, comes and visits me, uh, puts money on my books, and I'm just like, oh my God, who the hell is this guy?
SPEAKER_16Sarah, you know what I mean? These so when dad went to prison, uh-huh, my mom fell into a bad depression. Sure. And it was like for like over a long month, it was a long time. Because he went in November of 06. I talk about in my testimony. By Christmas of 06, mom picks up her old addiction.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_16And it got her out of depression, but man, that was crazy.
SPEAKER_04But one of the things was Pastor Tom and Pastor made me a promise that he would he would check up on my family and man, dude.
SPEAKER_16They they came over. I remember I remember the blinds were and they they pulled in. I'm like, oh, that's Pastor Tom and we were just we were smoking a bowl inside. And I was like, oh no. I shut the blinds, closed the door, shh. And they're knocking, they're knocking. I knew they were out there, man. But we didn't open it, and they they packed all the stuff back up and left.
SPEAKER_04They had a bunch of Christmas gifts. Bunch of Christmas gifts. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_16A real, a real walk in Jesus, man.
SPEAKER_04Still to this day, the dude's my pastor. Yeah. Yeah. Like like he he just stepped down from pastoral here to go on a full-time mission. But he's the reason I'm at this church. Right. That's awesome. So when I got out of prison in 2010, I was going. We lived in Tempe. I went to his church a couple times. He had a church at a school. We ended up moving to Queen Creek, and I don't want to do the drive. So I go to Mountain View. And I'm at Mountain View. Me and Raddy go to this men's group, and I feel like God's telling me there's more. And I'm like, what does that mean? Right. And so I'm praying, and I hear find Pastor Tom. I find Pastor Tom, he's here and having a left sense. Yeah. Because that dude is that awesome. I'm like, and I told him, Don't let me leave again, brother. Amen. If I tell you I'm leaving, you pay me to the wall and you make sure God told you to leave, right? And he's like, but he's just, he was amazing.
SPEAKER_01That's awesome. Yeah. That's awesome.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. But it's not about me.
SPEAKER_16Yeah, but I wanted I wanted him to share that because it was very important in figuring how we're here and what God did in his life and his work.
SPEAKER_12Sure, sure.
Fear Of Marriage And Trust Issues
SPEAKER_12Yeah. No, I'm grateful um that my mom found the church in Tempe that she did. And the and I kind of watching my parents' marriage fall apart the way that it was it did. And and going through the own my own abuses with my dad really did harden my heart. Like I could care less if I dated or got married. I did visually You didn't want any part of that.
SPEAKER_16If that's what marriage looks like.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, I'm not doing it. Um I'm not having kids. I'm never I'm never gonna fall. I'm never gonna let somebody hurt me. Yeah. Ever. Ever. You said your dad was physical too, right? Yes, very physically abusive. Emotional. Emotional. Um mental abuse. I mean, he was like a trifecta of abuse.
SPEAKER_04Um like bad physical. I mean, all physical abuse is bad, but I'm talking like anything that you sent you to the hospital or anything.
SPEAKER_12Um he didn't know. We didn't end up in the hospital.
SPEAKER_04Um, but not that there's levels of abuse, it's all abuse, but I just try to get a belt on a belt on the head over and over and over.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um we got that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, my dad was physical, never sent us to the hospital, but he sure would call a cock us if we're gonna get it. Wow. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_12Oh yeah. Um I mean, I joke about how I've had a wooden spoon broken over my butt. I've had um my dad broke a hairbrush over my butt. Um now again, I was a dancer, so I really did have very good glute gluteal muscles. I had a firm butt. I broke I broke spoons and combs. Trying to keep it Christian, guys. But I but yeah, so that's a very that's really real.
SPEAKER_04Um so that shaped your image of what men were like.
SPEAKER_12Oh, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. Um, I just remember how fearful my mom was about spending money.
SPEAKER_07Really?
SPEAKER_12I didn't know we were rich. I mean, we had money and I didn't know it. I had no idea because my dad made us feel like we were always gonna be in the poor we're gonna be in the poorhouse.
SPEAKER_07Really?
SPEAKER_12If you waste that food, we're gonna be in the poor house. Really? People in third world countries, people in Ethiopia. Okay, we'll send it to them. Now I never said that again because I wore that dinner.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. Really?
SPEAKER_12That did not uh SAS doesn't always end well. No, it doesn't.
SPEAKER_04It's not always humorous.
SPEAKER_12That's real that one didn't let now I I tell that story today, and I'm like, oh no, that kid was hilarious.
SPEAKER_05Right.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_12If you're gonna tell me like people in thorough countries are starving to death and you're just sitting here not eating your okay, great, send it to them. I'm fine, I'm fine with that. Yeah, don't say not at the dinner table. Children also don't sass your parents. Um honor. Yeah, yes, please do. Um so but you know, I think it was like year, it was so many years of like just stupid garbage hearing that crap, and it's like I'm tired.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_12At you know, 10, 11, 12, 13 years old, you're like, I'm tired.
SPEAKER_04I had to have been mentally just exhausting. So exhausting.
SPEAKER_12We were constantly walking on eggshells, and nobody wanted to anger him. Nobody. Um to the point where I carried some of that fear. Now you guys know Ryan, and some of your viewers might know Ryan. I was afraid to tell Ryan things. Like I was afraid to tell him about spending money.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_15Wow, a lot of this stuff.
SPEAKER_12Yes, he is. Um and I'm the mean one, but I was terrified to share things with my husband because of the people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it is kind of a miracle that I'm even married, and it's a miracle that Ryan is like, he picked me, and I don't know why. I don't. I ask him all the time, and he's like, I don't know. I don't know. I was I felt adventurous. I like what I saw, baby. He's like, Well, I felt real adventurous.
SPEAKER_16I never knew what I was gonna get with you. Yeah, that's real.
SPEAKER_04But you know what's you know what's crazy though is is being in recovery and being part of the community that is recovery. Thank god you see a lot men and women alike who bring either stuff from their parents or stuff from previous relationships into these new relationships. I got a friend whose girl is very uh insecure. Not because he does anything to make her feel that way and it frustrates him, but like for sure. Like I I'm on the phone with you all day. When do I have time to do anything? You know what I mean? And yeah, and I feel for him because he's just a wonderful dude. Sure. And he dealt with it.
SPEAKER_12As is Ryan, but I had a dream one day, one night that he married someone else. I had died, and he married someone else, and I woke up and I was furious. Oh, Jesus. And he was like, I am I don't know what I did. He's like, did I snore last night? Like, did I wake you up? Like, what happened? And I'm like, well, let me tell you what you did.
SPEAKER_02I died and you remarried. So real.
SPEAKER_12It felt so real. And I was like, and how dare you?
SPEAKER_02And he's looking at me like pray for him, people. I'm married.
SPEAKER_12He's like, I picked you. Oh and I am so oh man, you didn't make me care. No, he was like, he's like, I'm so sorry. He's like, I'm like, I'm so sorry you died. I'm so like now I'm sad because you're dead, and I'm just like, well, I'm not dead now. Oh my gosh. Oh wait, I mean, that poor man, he deals with it on a regular basis.
SPEAKER_16And that you've come a long way though, because I've heard your testimony, the short one, and see, and you've you've gotten some real healing and you've made some changes with God.
SPEAKER_12It's very true. And can I tell you, Ryan told me, so the first time you and I had an encounter was you had come to something at our C at the CR that we were running or doing something, and I was doing chips and I said, My name is Sarah, and I'm a grateful believer in Jesus. I struggle at the time I was like, I struggle with anxiety, I struggle um with uh past childhood abuse and ra and trauma, but I celebrate God's victory over rage. And I remember Ryan, Ryan told me he goes, Roddy came up and goes, Sarah. Sarah deals with rage. Like she's so nice, and Ryan's like she is who she is now. She's nice now, but yeah, she deals with rage. I so I I do love that. I love that I say who I was because that's who I was. And um, and it is funny that there are different stories where people were like, um, we don't want to bother Ryan, so we'll come to you. And I'm like, you know I'm here for rage, right? You know that I am at this meeting for anger and rage. And that rage manifested as abusive tendencies. So you want to come to me and not the nice guy? And they're like, Yes, we were feeling very brave.
SPEAKER_13And I'm like, no, you're not.
SPEAKER_16Okay, so let's go, let's
Dating Patterns And Feeling Unlovable
SPEAKER_16go back. Yeah, you're high school, you are dancing. I love that now. Your girls dance. I'm like, oh that's great, man. I know, I know.
SPEAKER_04So you how did you get into danced professionally? I did, yeah. Yeah, how'd you get into dancing?
SPEAKER_12Yeah, so in Alaska, my parents, my mom took me to see the Nutcracker Suite, and um I sat quietly. I was two. Oh, wow. Yeah, I was two, and I she's like, kid sat quietly. I was riveted, apparently. Right. I loved it. Yeah, I loved it. So when we and so I danced there a little bit, and then when we moved here, then they put me in a they put me in a school.
SPEAKER_16Yeah. And um like an extracurricular after school, you're going to dance.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, like Saturday mornings. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Saturday mornings, because I did it forever. So I started out just Saturday mornings and then I moved up, and as I progressed, then it was like more four nights a week, yeah, type of thing.
SPEAKER_04Do you ever get into like uh thing?
SPEAKER_15I think it's like Juilliard?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, something like that, where it's like you know what I mean? Yeah, where you're selected to go to this particular academy or whatever. Really? Yep. Wow, man. That's pretty impressive.
SPEAKER_16Did you like dance in theaters?
unknownWow.
SPEAKER_04You ever do any like cool like Broadway stuff? Not necessarily Broadway, but you know what I mean? Like Broadway type shows like ASU gamge, that kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_16Yeah. Wow. Really? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. As a well, you stopped at 22. So this was the first time.
SPEAKER_12It was fun.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Sounds like it.
SPEAKER_12Yeah. My body now hates me.
SPEAKER_04Secretly, I I'm I'm impressed with like drama stuff. Like I love musicals and uh orchestras, but I try not to tell nobody because I'm supposed to be this. Sure, sure, sure. Right. Yeah. You're secret safe with us. We're gonna take a trip to the butt for me. I would love to like to go to the game, which is expensive. Yeah, yeah. Oh, a hundred percent. It's not cheap to go watch something, you know what I mean? And I would love to go like see a show. I have a daughter, she that's really into that kind of stuff. But I asked her all the time, if I was to buy tickets, would you want to go? She's like, I don't really care. And I'm like, I would love to go see something like that.
SPEAKER_06Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Just to experience it in person. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Like I used to do PBS when I was a young adult. Oh, yeah. In prison when late nights, when everybody was sleeping, I would do PBS and watch all the cool shows. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_10Masterpiece theater. Yeah, Matt.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I love Matt.
SPEAKER_16And it was just, I don't know, there was just something so I'm learning stuff about you now.
SPEAKER_12That's well-rounded. You're well-rounded, you're cultured.
SPEAKER_04So I used to cultured. I used to put on, I forget what radio station it was. I had a radio station where they would play like orchestra music.
SPEAKER_12And I would like K-bok.
SPEAKER_04So I'm laying in my prison cell with my ear bones on that nobody can hear.
SPEAKER_12Right, because nobody needs to know that.
SPEAKER_04Listening to orchestra. I would fall asleep to orchestra music. Because it was just in the environment that I was in. Yeah. It was the one thing I found that gave me peace. Yeah. Wow. And because it was just so soothing, just the the strings and the horns and just the way that it was orchestrated was just very soothing to my soul. And I could fall asleep with my butt against the wall. Yeah. You know what I mean? I hear you. And so it's just pass to the wall. Yeah. But at that time, that stuff for me was the peace I could find in a very traumatizing, sure, violent world. No, I get it. Where you could escape and find something beautiful.
SPEAKER_12Well, because it's structured. Yeah. It's structured. And so when there's so there's been so much chaos and you can find peace and structure, that's healing. Yeah. I get it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04It was very at that time, it was very much needed. But I still have this desire to go see stuff like that in person.
SPEAKER_09You should go see a show.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, we are.
SPEAKER_04We are. I would like to. I'm taking mental notes. The only time I've been to the gamut was for uh Pink Floyd's nice show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The wall. Absolutely. Yeah, so it was like.
SPEAKER_12I mean, you got so you've done that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_12And now you go in.
SPEAKER_04I would love to go sit and watch an orchestra. I would, I would. Like I so they have commercials that come on TV all the time for like uh what's that Chinese one they have that comes to TV?
SPEAKER_12Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know what you're talking about.
SPEAKER_04Just watching the commercial, it's just it's the way they move and the fluidity which then they do it with is just it's something very elegant and just like beautiful. I know.
SPEAKER_12I'm always like Ryan, and he's like, those tickets are stupid expensive.
SPEAKER_04They're like two, three hundred dollars, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_12And I'm like, oh he's like, I don't love you that much. That's not true. He's never, he's never he's over there a lot.
SPEAKER_04My friend's wife has season tickets to Arizona Gamage. And I'm like, you don't even like that stuff, dude.
SPEAKER_12She's a pretty person, isn't she? I get it. I'm just messing. I'm just I'm just messing with everyone.
SPEAKER_04I've really thought about that, but I mean, she's not ugly.
SPEAKER_12I'm just saying, like, when I say like the pretty people, like Richie's.
SPEAKER_04No, not really.
SPEAKER_12Okay.
SPEAKER_04Not really.
SPEAKER_12Then she's fiscally responsible and she just likes culture. Okay.
SPEAKER_04But they have season tickets to that, and I'm a little jealous.
SPEAKER_16I didn't even know they make season tickets to Canvas. Yes, they do. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Wow.
SPEAKER_12You went to a couple things there, and I'm like, Yeah, they because the um the road shows, so like all Broadway shows will do like a road, a road touring show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so they go through that.
SPEAKER_16A lot of the people have taken kids over for um like frozen or there was wicked. Yeah. They all went and saw all those. Yeah.
SPEAKER_12And sometimes you can see like there's some orchestral shows. So it's just the orchestra, not nothing on the stage, just the orchestra. And they'll do like um. The orchestra was all on stage. They'll do like the music of Harry Potter, or they'll do um the music of Star Wars.
SPEAKER_04We had a guy on our show who does the music for movies. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Oh.
SPEAKER_04And I'm like, interesting.
SPEAKER_01That's very cool.
SPEAKER_16Yeah, he's been on red carpets and he won like awards because he did the music for the movies. Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_12He started out as like a composer.
SPEAKER_16Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Oh, so he started out as like a Christian rapper. Yeah. And loved music, loved making music, loved that aspect of it all. And he just produced a lady's album. I can't remember what her name is, but he just produced her album. Wow. But he's like done like the you know how like when a car's driving down the road and they got their he's the one that does. And I'm like, that is wow. I'm like, how did you get in there? He's like, I just like music. These people needed somebody to do. He started off with like a under budget movie that he started off in, you know what I mean? And he did made it some other stuff. I'm like, that is so cool, dude. You know what I mean? That's really cool. Did you ever make money dancing? Did you get paid for that?
SPEAKER_14Yeah. Yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_16I don't know if it's sounds like you're just volunteer.
SPEAKER_12No, but no, yeah, no. I did, so yes, but she wasn't that kind of dancer. You don't make it but people in like Broadway, they can't get pretty paid too much. So I got paid, but my butt not a lot. So like everything went back into like shoes and classes, costumes. Um how are your feet? My feet are old.
SPEAKER_04Are they tore up?
SPEAKER_12They are tired.
SPEAKER_04Do your knuckles are all gnarly?
SPEAKER_12Um, no. Do you guys have to get up on your so you're on your toes?
SPEAKER_04That's not even natural. That's not even natural.
SPEAKER_12It is. With the right shoe. It might be a shoe. With the right shoe.
SPEAKER_04Nobody's designed to walk on their toes.
SPEAKER_12I mean.
SPEAKER_04It's not natural.
SPEAKER_16You have to have tough glutes.
SPEAKER_01You do have to have tough glutes.
SPEAKER_12You have to actually, it's so, so just aside, just real quick. Umce the shoes are on.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_12Once the shoes are on.
SPEAKER_07Are they solid?
SPEAKER_12They are solid. Oh, really? So it's not. It's cardboard.
SPEAKER_04It's like a it's like um I know they're flat on the end, so you can stand on it.
SPEAKER_12Yes. So once your feet are in the shoes, your toes are dead. It's your arches and your ankles that keep you up. What do you mean your toes are dead? What does that mean? They don't do anything. What? Seriously.
SPEAKER_16Once your foot is in the shoe, your toes are dead.
SPEAKER_12Your toes are dead.
SPEAKER_04What does that mean?
SPEAKER_12It means like there's there's no ironically, ironically they're numb. They are. Really? Not numb numb, but like, I mean, like there were by the time I was done with the day, with with whatever, my feet were gross. So gross. But but um and and for a very long time um I could not feel hot or cold on the bottoms of my feet.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there was probably some nerve damage done there. Very much so.
SPEAKER_12But like, so it is your it's your it's your arch, your insole. Yeah. And so there's exercises that you do to strengthen your arch and your ankles. That's it.
SPEAKER_04So let me ask you this the first time that when you were younger that you had to get up on your toes. You had to have been like, this doesn't feel normal.
SPEAKER_12Um, no, it did not feel normal, but you just get used to it.
SPEAKER_04That's something you kind of train your feet to kind of do, right? We're doing it. So get on board. That's interesting.
SPEAKER_12Yeah.
SPEAKER_05That's that's okay.
SPEAKER_04I don't know. That's still pretty cool though. And when did you start dancing?
SPEAKER_12I was two.
SPEAKER_04So 20 years? Oh wow, man. Oh, okay. Did you get to do anything fun?
SPEAKER_12I mean, I loved dancing. I mean, so that was funny.
SPEAKER_04I know the dancing parts, but did you get to like travel go somewhere?
SPEAKER_12Oh, um, I didn't tr I didn't do too much. No, no, I didn't travel with like a company or anything like that. Like we took family vacations, but I didn't travel with that.
SPEAKER_04I mean, like for dancing as far as like in a company or something, you didn't travel on it.
SPEAKER_12No, I did competitions and stuff like that, but not like travel travel.
SPEAKER_16You ever get trophies or medals or anything?
SPEAKER_12Uh no.
SPEAKER_16Do they hand out that kind of stuff for dance?
SPEAKER_12They do. I just didn't get it. Okay. Nah. I'm sure it's pretty it's pretty competitive. It is. Yeah, it is. And I wasn't as cutthroat. I just I did it because I loved it.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_12I loved it. So yeah. Um, and that's and I played softball. Like I I tried, like my dad wanted us to to do all the boys.
SPEAKER_16Well, I'm with girls, you're gonna play. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_12So I tried soccer, and of course, I was not built. I'm not built for sports. Like, I could play softball now, um, but I could not. Like, I was the kid in the outfield cartwheeling and like hey, come on, pay attention pirouettes and all that stuff.
SPEAKER_13I was like, let me see what I can do in the grass in my cleats and slip and slide. Oh my god. Sarah. I don't know. Pay attention. Oh my god. And I'm like, nah, I'm not doing this. Okay. Um, yeah.
SPEAKER_04So you did a little you said you did a little college. Where'd you go to college at?
SPEAKER_12Um, I started at um I tried Scotstill Community College and not not knocking them their grade. I wasn't. Yeah. I was I was not academically inclined. I try, I try, I was like, I'm in, I'll do this.
SPEAKER_04And it was like, this is what was your grade average when you graduated high school? You remember?
SPEAKER_12I think I might have like I think I graduated with a D.
SPEAKER_04Get good grades. I think we had, I think we had like 366 kids in my class. I think I was 365.
SPEAKER_12Probably yeah, I'm probably like thank God we did ours was alphabetically.
SPEAKER_04I'm the guy who graduates medical school that you still call doctor, but I'm not serving. I hear you. I hear you. I'm in the school.
SPEAKER_12I'm not just medicine.
SPEAKER_00I'm sure.
SPEAKER_12For sure. No, I hear, I hear you. Yeah. They um yeah, I don't, I gen, I genuinely think they were like, we're gonna let her go because this is stupid. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_16What was the first job you had? I was just gonna ask that.
SPEAKER_12Um so dance, so like being professional, but like a job job. Like in high school, did you? Yeah, in high school I worked at Long John Silvers. Um, I came home smelling like fish and um coleslaw.
SPEAKER_04Coleslaw, really.
SPEAKER_12Mm-hmm. Yeah. I still to this day love Long John Silvers. That's the best. I should not, yeah, but I love it. It's terrible.
SPEAKER_16It just brings you back. You go in there and you the smells and you're the malt vinegar.
SPEAKER_04Their dumb fish is the dumb or though. Their fish is so good. It's so good. It is, but so bad. It shouldn't be. Why not? Is it cooked in Greece? Oh, please, yes. Oh my word, it's so frozen. Fish patty, of course.
SPEAKER_12So frozen.
SPEAKER_16Really?
SPEAKER_12Yes. Oh, there is nothing fresh. No. Especially Long John Silver's in Arizona. Come on.
SPEAKER_04Killed my vibe for Long John Silver.
SPEAKER_16But yes, that malt vinegar is delicious. Oh my god. And it opened up a pack and just Yes.
SPEAKER_12I'm like, I'll get extra malt vinegar, please.
SPEAKER_04And the crispies of the crispies, the hush puppies? No, no, no.
SPEAKER_12You know, like from the fish. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Oh, yes. Come on. Come on.
SPEAKER_16We haven't eaten dinner, guys.
SPEAKER_04I'm a tartar sauce dude. I'm not a malt vinegar dude. I am a tartar sauce.
SPEAKER_12Yeah. Oh, yeah. Thirsty Lion has the best.
SPEAKER_04My wife will soak malt vinegar.
SPEAKER_02Oh my. She makes me buy a big bottle of the London malt vinegar.
SPEAKER_12Absolutely. Absolutely. I will soak my fish in it. Really? Oh, you better believe I will. And then as I'm cutting it up, because I don't touch, yeah, I'm not going to touch food with my hands, but as I take that bottle. Wow.
SPEAKER_16So that's just something that you you don't the the touching. Touching of sand, touching of nature, touching of food. Okay. You don't do fish. You don't do hand food?
SPEAKER_12I do at home. Yeah. Okay. When I'm in in home, but in public, no, absolutely not. Yeah. And I love a nacho. Yeah. But I won't eat it in public.
SPEAKER_04My wife will eat at a restaurant, but she won't eat at somebody's house.
unknownHuh.
SPEAKER_04She doesn't know how the I get it. I'm like, just feed me. I don't care where it comes from. You can peel it off the floor. I'm good. Well, I won't. I'm not gonna eat it. I don't care.
SPEAKER_13Well, I get it.
SPEAKER_04We went through a rough season in life, man. No, I I hear it. No, I hear it. Yeah, try it. Get you some prison food. You'll understand. Slop. When you get a bird that comes out through the trap with some feathers still in it, baked and cooked, and you're like, what the heck?
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_14Right.
SPEAKER_12No, I mean, I hear you, and I respect it. I'm not, I feel like I'm not getting it.
SPEAKER_04My immune system is awesome. I bet it is. No, it's top-notch. I bet. I don't get sick. Ever.
SPEAKER_16Ever. Wow. No, he doesn't. I couldn't. It's been years since he'd been sick. I don't get sick.
SPEAKER_12And you attribute that to prison. Of course.
SPEAKER_04No, I attribute it to eating anything and everything, even if it's off the floor.
SPEAKER_12Okay. Yeah. I'm not still.
SPEAKER_04You gotta get all that in your system so you can build up some immune to it, man. Sure.
SPEAKER_12No, I know a thousand percent. And I would tell people, yeah. And you thought you'd live up your and you thought you'd live some. Rethinking all my things.
SPEAKER_05Go home, drop your burger. Have to make some CD. We'll put it on the floor, and we'll pick it up and eat it. And you'll your head will just spin and you'll be like, I just did that.
SPEAKER_13I'm not doing that.
SPEAKER_02There's a three-second rule. As long as it's less than three seconds, you're okay. With the current economy, it's up to six.
SPEAKER_16Six second rule.
SPEAKER_02I believe that. No, I do believe that. I love you, Dad.
SPEAKER_04But I have, I mean, no. I contribute like so when I was a kid, we used to eat mud pies. Sure. Like we're out in the dirt making mud pies. I'm sure I did that too as a kid. Yeah, immune system, man. I do not get sick. Wow. Yeah.
SPEAKER_12That's incredible.
SPEAKER_04It's phenomenal. But I also walk around declaring that I walk into Vine Hell. Right. Right. But I contribute to the immune system because I really do will eat anything. Yeah.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_04Even in my shop. My shop, my floor shop floor is nasty, and I'll drop some. Oh yes, ma'am.
SPEAKER_02Grab it and pick it up. I love you. Certain things.
SPEAKER_04Not everything. If it's mushy and wet and hits the ground, I'm like, no, that's that's a little nasty. You know what I mean? But like a chicken tender. But a chip or a chicken tender or something hits the ground. I'm picking it up and going to town, man.
SPEAKER_16A little dip, you're good.
SPEAKER_12I mean, I do appreciate that you have standards, so like nothing wet or mushy. Yeah, no. Then you're like, we're done with we're finished.
SPEAKER_04Because then what's on the ground actually mixes in with it. Yes. You know what I mean? And that's just out of the colour.
SPEAKER_16Okay, I'm gonna reel this one.
SPEAKER_04But something that's not gonna absorb, you know what I mean? I get it. A little dirt, a little grease never hurt up.
SPEAKER_16So you your parents went through the divorce and at 18, you guys are in Tempe going to what a different church, a Christian church.
SPEAKER_12Non-denominational.
SPEAKER_16Non-denominational. Um any encounters there in like you had when you were a kid? Um or up to to this point?
SPEAKER_12Has there been any other I would say yeah, I'll say yes. I'll say yes, but not that I felt anything major. I will tell you. It's where I met Ryan eventually. Not at this point. So um, but we had a family. So our so we had elders, shepherding elders, uh, in that church. And so each elder had like a certain amount of families. And so we had we had an elder who was phenomenal. He walked me down the aisle when we got married. Um but what is a shepherding elder?
SPEAKER_04What is that?
SPEAKER_12So um the elders would like shepherd the families, different families. They would come in and like pour into the families or take care of them if they needed, like, that kind of thing. Wow, that's pretty cool. So um so this particular elder, um, phenomenal. Um and his yeah, I was friends with them forever. Um they were in our wedding, like I said, um he I think God used him to help me heal partially from from my dad. Yeah from men. So he was like a father figure. I called him dad. Um, he was amazing.
SPEAKER_04He I remember was he somebody that exemplified what a what a better man should be like?
SPEAKER_12Um, yes, yes.
SPEAKER_04Um did you did you did you see that in him? That's why you kind of I did.
SPEAKER_12There was a piece about him. He was nothing like my dad. Um he was very gentle. Um and I remember because I was such a jerk. I was such a jerk. It's one of the reasons that we it's not one of there are a few reasons why we don't go there anymore. But one one thing that kept coming up to me was people would be like, Do you remember when you were 16 and you were such a jerk? Well, yeah, everybody's a jerk when they're 16. Yeah, yeah. I mean, like, I have a 16-year-old and she's magnificent. She is magnificent, but she is like her mom. So you know.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah. Okay, yeah. So um many you a little sass.
SPEAKER_12She comes at me and I'm like, okay, all right, all right, let me loosen up. Let me anyways, I digress. So she is so um he, I remember I was so angry about something. And he was like, he's like, hey Sarah, how's it going? And I was like, I don't even want to talk to you right now. And he's like, okay, I just want you to know I'm never going away. And you can't do anything to make me go away. And I was like, voila, effing. How dare you. And I remember just bursting into tears because no man had ever said that to me. Nobody. My dad was like, F it. I want nothing to do with you. Um but this guy was like, I'm not going anywhere. So stop trying to push me away.
SPEAKER_00That's so cool.
SPEAKER_12Because I'm I'm always gonna be here. Um yeah. So I do think that that was a that was a really Do you think some of your SASP was like tries to push people away? Oh, a hundred percent. Really? A hundred percent. I'm gonna push you away. I'm gonna hurt you before you have an opportunity to hurt Oh yeah. Self-defense. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04Wow. Absolutely. All right.
SPEAKER_12I'm ne I was never gonna let somebody hurt me ever again.
SPEAKER_04You think it comes like it's just second nature, or do you intentionally try to you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Are you like back then Do you like intentionally going like I'm gonna see how far I can push this dude before they leave or this person or whatever? Or is it just very much self-sabotage?
SPEAKER_12Like, I will let me burn this building down.
SPEAKER_04Really?
SPEAKER_12Oh, absolutely.
SPEAKER_04Sometimes it just comes off as just a natural response to things, you know what I mean? So I'm just trying to figure out if you're intentionally trying to push or parts of the thing. Is it just a natural response?
SPEAKER_12Well, and I yes, I think yes to both. Yeah, I think there were moments where it was like I don't know how to handle this. So I'm going I'm gonna push. I'm gonna push. Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna see, I'm gonna test the waters. I'm gonna test them. They said they're not going anywhere. I'm gonna give them a reason. We're gonna find out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um, so I think there was there were moments like that, and I think there were moments that were just like reactive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like just it came naturally, like, oh it's a trauma response. Absolutely. Of course. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_12For sure. And I I had many trauma responses with poor Ryan, Fletcher, and it's unfortunate.
SPEAKER_04What was your what was your action when dude didn't go?
SPEAKER_12I burst into tears. I could not handle it. And then I went and told his wife. I was like, your husband made me cry. And she goes, What the hell? What'd he do? And I was like, he told me he loved me and he's never going anywhere. She goes, I don't know. I don't know how to help you get through that. And I was like, somebody has to help me through this. I did not know how to handle that. I truly didn't. Wow.
SPEAKER_04Um was that the first time nobody left? Yes. Really? I would say yes. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Wow.
SPEAKER_10Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Wow.
SPEAKER_10For sure.
SPEAKER_16God bless you, sir. Yeah. Is he still here? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no. He's still here. Amen.
SPEAKER_12He's fantastic. Yeah. I mean, we um we're core we're friends, we're cordial. We don't, you know, do life together anymore.
SPEAKER_16But but he's still yeah. You could pick up the phone or or reach out to him or something. If I wanted to, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's cool.
SPEAKER_12Um, I see that my so my did that help you? Did it help me?
SPEAKER_04Did that help you?
SPEAKER_10Oh, for sure.
SPEAKER_12Heal she said God used him to like heal. I would not have been able to marry Ryan if if I had not had that moment. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_16Yeah.
SPEAKER_12If he had not been pouring into me.
SPEAKER_07Really?
SPEAKER_12Yeah, oh yeah.
SPEAKER_16You needed that healing in that um what it yeah, just you needed that healing from him as a man in order to oh, oh, not all men are like my father. For sure. Okay.
SPEAKER_10For sure. Okay, for sure, for sure.
SPEAKER_04Did you're pushing and away subside a little bit, or were you still? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_12No, no, no. No, I relaxed.
SPEAKER_04Did you?
SPEAKER_16Once you realized he wasn't leaving, you're like, well, I mean, just to other people in general.
SPEAKER_12Giant bear of a guy. Yeah. Like I couldn't have moved him if I wanted to. Um it would be like those um Facebook memes or whatever where the it's like a kitten fighting, and it's like, yeah, that would have been me.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_12Like a dog. Yeah. Like a gigantic bear dog.
SPEAKER_04But did that help you in relationships after that to not push as much?
SPEAKER_12Yeah. Yes. I will uh up to this point.
SPEAKER_16Obviously, you're still sassy and kind of. Oh, 100%. Yeah. Up to this point, she ain't talked about a boyfriend or any kind of relationship.
SPEAKER_12I have had boyfriends, and so yeah. So I'd made terrible, terrible decisions um with boys. Okay. With men.
SPEAKER_16Um not that pastors' sons didn't. No, no, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_12Gosh, no, no, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_04They probably weren't even attractive. They probably anyways.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, yeah. So um That was me trying to stick out for you. Like they weren't even they were terrible. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They were PKs. Um for sure.
SPEAKER_06Dorks, dumped. Um, the yes, the most.
SPEAKER_12Um, yeah, I I think it was like a super weird, like I was gonna fill that hole and I was gonna show him that I was lovable. Like, because that that was the other thing that he'd said, like, you're unlovable. No one's ever gonna, yeah, you're no one's ever gonna love you. No one's ever gonna love you. You will never find anybody who will put up with you.
SPEAKER_06Who the hell says that?
SPEAKER_12And I was like, oh, okay. And so I was, yeah, oh yeah. And boy, was that stupid. So stupid. Um, wow, and yet God still was like, hey, I do have somebody for you, so I need you to chill out. Can you just relax your body? And I was like, yeah, probably. Um, yeah.
SPEAKER_16But I'm not gonna be on the road.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_12But I'm not right here under the tree where the horse wants to be. Yeah, I'm gonna sit next to the road under a tree. Clearly a horse's bathroom. I apologize. Yeah, so I um gosh, there was another moment where it was like, oh I've yes, okay, so thank you, holy side. In my twenties? Yes, thank you. Probably um, I don't know, around I it was after, so I my so I'm 24, 23, 24, and my mom's like, you need to go have an adventure. Like I'm pissed off at everybody, angry at the world. Um uh I don't feel valued by like my church or anything like that or whatever. Um my friends, I'm a mess. I'm a super mess, and I was so angry, just so angry all the time. And my mom's like, you need to go, you need to go.
SPEAKER_16Experience some life.
SPEAKER_12Yes, go have an adventure. And I was like, I don't know where to go. And she's like, go to Alaska, get out of here. Really? Just go. And so I did. I went to Alaska, I stayed for about a year and a half, close
Alaska Adventure And Coming Home Angry
SPEAKER_12to two years.
SPEAKER_10With who?
SPEAKER_12Um, so yeah, that was that's a hilarious story. I went up with a guy from our church, he was like, I'll go to Alaska with you, and I was like, Okay, we're going as friends, we're not gonna be anything, I'm not sleeping with you. And he's like, Yeah, cool, okay, great. Well, he did like me. I mean, I'm an I'm okay looking. But I was a jerk.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_12But he was like, I mean, I'll go with you.
SPEAKER_16Yeah, yeah, hoping. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll be real nice to this one and love her, and yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_12Um, sweet kid, real sweet kid.
SPEAKER_16Um you were 24? How old is he?
SPEAKER_12Probably my same age. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this is from the church in Tempe. Okay. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_16You by this point, you've been there six years. Did you have somewhere to go?
SPEAKER_12Oh, yeah, yeah. So my godmother, um, again, remember, I'm born in Alaska, yeah. Yeah, my godmother was um, she was like a hospital administrator um for the hospital in Juneau, Alaska. So I was like, well, let's go to Juno because I can get a job there and she's IT. Okay. Yeah. Juno. Juno, you know. Sorry, goddad. I knew I knew it was coming. Um, I didn't know.
SPEAKER_04Because people always say you know, and I'm like, oh, Juno. Yeah. Alaska. And I always tell Juno, Alaska. Yeah, never mind. Yep. Yep, yep. My humor's not as good as yours, man. Mine's dry.
SPEAKER_10I like dry.
SPEAKER_04So do I. It's an hilarious. Yeah.
SPEAKER_10Oh, it's good.
SPEAKER_16I have the courage that keeps you on your toes. You never know what you're gonna get. That is surprising.
SPEAKER_12I don't even always know what we're gonna get.
SPEAKER_04Uh yeah, so see what today holds. Just so you know, from the appearance, I would never guess you are the way that you are. Yeah. That's why the first time I told you, it totally shocked me when you started being hilarious. I'm like, what the hell is going on right now? Sorry. No, it's just wonderfully surprised. I'm just like, I did not expect that at all.
SPEAKER_16That's why I didn't expect the rage and anger.
SPEAKER_10Yeah.
SPEAKER_16I'm like, from this little thing? Yeah.
SPEAKER_10She's adorable.
SPEAKER_16No, I'm not. Give me behind closed doors. I'll show you adorable.
SPEAKER_14I'll pick a fight with you just to see how far I can put you.
SPEAKER_16Yeah, where we can go.
SPEAKER_04Um, your sarcasm is second to none, man. It's it's wonderful. It's a gift. Thank you. I appreciate that. That's very kind.
SPEAKER_12Um, I think some people would disagree with you on that one, but some people so we had a pastor here once and his sarcasm was yeah, top notch.
SPEAKER_04I loved it. I'm over here laughing my butt off. Yeah. Not everybody.
SPEAKER_16Not everybody can appreciate a good sense of sarcasm, especially not in the church. I know.
SPEAKER_12Well, and I think sarcasm can bring people to Jesus. Oh, yeah. And I think Jesus was sarcastic. I'm gonna be real honest with you.
SPEAKER_04I think sarcasm can reveal a stick in a lot of people. Oh, yes. And it's like, uh, let me show you what you got protruding out of your backside because you're a little stiff, bud. Yeah, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_12Yeah, yeah. Let's loosen up.
SPEAKER_04Just because we're followers of Jesus and Christ followers and a lover of God and people, doesn't mean we can't have a sense of humor. For sure and a little sarcasm.
SPEAKER_12For sure.
SPEAKER_04And again, Jesus was not that serious.
SPEAKER_12No. If you read the scriptures, he was actually also a little righteous rage in him. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Who else responds to religious leaders of the law with questions?
SPEAKER_10Right. Right.
SPEAKER_04Like challenge, he challenged. I'm a person that love challenge leadership. Like I'll clown on my pastor. Sure. I enjoy it. You know what I mean? I'm gonna make you laugh. You know what I mean? And uh I get that from Jesus. I I think it's a gift. It's a gift.
SPEAKER_12Agreed.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_12I appreciate that. Yeah, man.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. Pleasant surprise, just so you know. Well, thank you. I appreciate that. I'll take that. Yeah, so you're in Alaska.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, I'm in Alaska.
SPEAKER_04Stay with your godmother, you said.
SPEAKER_12Well, I didn't stay with her, but I did get a job. Like, she got me a job.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_12Um, had an apartment with this guy. Um How'd you get the apartment?
SPEAKER_04Did you get that before you went up there?
SPEAKER_12Uh well, no.
SPEAKER_04So you had to stay somewhere before you. You stayed in a hotel.
SPEAKER_12Okay, there you go. We did not, there was nothing in no relationship. Oh, no, of course not. Okay.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_12None. So then um, so we do get how long did it take you to get settled and get an apartment?
SPEAKER_04Two days. Really?
SPEAKER_12Yeah, two days.
SPEAKER_04That's impressive too. Yeah.
SPEAKER_12Well, we went up in the summertime. Uh no, no, no. We went up. Well, it was summertime here. It was September, because I remember the day I was supposed to have my job interview.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_12September 11th.
SPEAKER_04How'd you like the three days of sunshine and the three days of darkness?
SPEAKER_12Well, in the lower part of the city, you don't get that as much. But you do have very um large amounts of daylight in nighttime. So I was up in Anchorage for my arm.
SPEAKER_04I have a theory about that, but we won't get into that in this episode. We'll save that for another one.
SPEAKER_12Okay, but I'll I'll come back and do that with you. Really? For sure.
SPEAKER_16Oh the flat earth? Are you a flat earther?
SPEAKER_12No. Okay.
SPEAKER_13No, I'm a rounder.
SPEAKER_02There's a lot of stuff out there that says otherwise. Well.
SPEAKER_04It explains the three days of constant sunshine. It's not.
SPEAKER_02I love you, Dad.
SPEAKER_16Okay, so you're in Alaska with the boy. Different episode. You're 24. Yeah. And you're trying to get a job at the hospital.
SPEAKER_12Well, I have a job. I I'm going to have a job. I just have to have like the like formality of interview and the hiring process. Yeah. So September 11th happens. And 9-11, 2015. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_15Oh, Jesus.
SPEAKER_12Yep. So I can't. My mom is a nurse down here at um a pretty high-level hospital. So I try to call her to see how she's doing, and I can't get through. And so I call the floor and I'm like, I need you to let me speak to my mom because I am in Alaska and I need to know that she's okay. And they're like, Well, we're in lockdown right now, and you can't be on the phone right now. And I was like, Well, I'm in Alaska and I can be on the phone and I would like to talk to my mom. So I did get a chance to talk to her for a second. She's like, hey, I'm good. I promise, like, I'll call you when I get home. Great. That's all I need to know.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_12Um, and so yeah, I do get a I finally got a job. I got a boyfriend. I lived my life. I did all kinds of cool stuff in Alaska, very cool, fun things. Learned how to fish on the open ocean.
SPEAKER_04Um moose encounters, bear encounters.
SPEAKER_12I did not have any bear encounters. Um, there's a lot of moose. We had bears that would come like at our apartment. They would go play in the dumpster and stuff like that, but I I was not around them. I can't remember.
SPEAKER_04Remember that TV show that was done in Alaska? I forget what TV.
SPEAKER_12Uh Deadliest Catch.
SPEAKER_04No, it was uh it was like a sitcom kind of thing. What the hell was the name of it? Wonderful show. I'll have to remember what it is. Was it in the 90s? I think so. Yes, I do remember. Loved that show.
SPEAKER_12That was great.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it made Alaska look so wonderful.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, it's not it wasn't in Alaska.
SPEAKER_04No, no, it sure made it look good.
SPEAKER_12Shot in Canada.
SPEAKER_05Really? Probably. Posers. I know. Eh?
SPEAKER_12I know. I know. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_05Did you do any ice fishing?
SPEAKER_12I didn't because it we didn't have that, we didn't have that kind of thing that wasn't there. Again, it's lower, so it's more weather patterns closer to like Seattle, Washington, like rains.
SPEAKER_04I forget that it protrudes out and has this big thing.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, and we were like kind of as you get to the top, you get closer to the center of the earth. Yeah.
SPEAKER_15The center of the earth.
unknownYeah, yep.
SPEAKER_12I get it.
SPEAKER_04I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_12I'm with you.
SPEAKER_04Do you ever watch what's that show where they're in Alaska but they're in the middle of nowhere? Uh Sub-Zero. Is it Sub-Zero? Them people that live out that direction. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_12Like the Bush people?
SPEAKER_04People are nuts. Yeah. They're out there mushing and stuff. I'm like, you guys, there's nothing out there. What are you doing out there?
SPEAKER_12Being adventurous. They're being adventurous. They're being cold. Somebody said they couldn't do it, so they went and did it. Really? That's what happened to me. Wow.
SPEAKER_04I call driving across the country on a swim of a moment adventurous. Yeah. Living out in the middle of nowhere all by yourself with a pack of dogs and a sled is not adventurous. That's retarded.
unknownI mean.
SPEAKER_04To each their own.
SPEAKER_12I mean, right? Everybody's got their own level.
SPEAKER_03That's right. If something happens to you, there's nobody there. Right. You're now a frozen popsicle. Well. Frozen popsicle that the wolves are going to come in.
SPEAKER_16Summertime.
SPEAKER_01I don't know about that.
SPEAKER_16This guy can't handle cold. He gets out of the shower and it's too cold in the room. He starts shaking.
SPEAKER_04Oh I literally have a small heater in my bedroom.
SPEAKER_02We all hate it. They can't stop. I got a heater going.
SPEAKER_12Oh, your house is at 76? No. In the summertime, my house is 70, right? Oh, yes. Nice.
SPEAKER_04God, who pays that electric bill? That guy.
SPEAKER_02He's got a good job, bud.
SPEAKER_04You like to cold, Ryan? You like to cold? Yeah. Really? Can't stand it. I should not have to sit on my couch wrapped up in a blanket.
SPEAKER_12If you want to know something, when I was pregnant with my children, it was during the summertime that I would take that AC all the way down as low as I could take it. Ryan was wearing like sweaters, like hoodies in our house, wool socks. Wow. In the house. See, that's ridiculous. In the house. That's ridiculous. Well, I was building a human being. Yeah. I get that. Amen. In a furnace. Putting in real words. That's the Lord's work.
SPEAKER_04I'm a firm believer that you should have your house at a temperature that you can sit there in shorts and enjoy yourself.
SPEAKER_12And I did sit in shorts when I was pregnant. Really? Building a human being and a furnace.
SPEAKER_04What was your go-to snack?
SPEAKER_12I loved orange popsicles. Really? Oh, I loved orange popsicles. Yep.
SPEAKER_04My wife, for my for my youngest son, my wife was lemon pepper fish and oranges.
SPEAKER_12Hmm. I also loved um Clausen pickles.
SPEAKER_04Really?
SPEAKER_12They're the only pickles. I made I did make a grocery store.
SPEAKER_04What's the strangest thing you craved? Like just bizarre out of the fried burritos. Ryan had to go get at midnight because you just would not go to sleep unless you had this item or something.
SPEAKER_12Well it wasn't strange. Well, I did eat um with both of the girls. I went into labor, but I didn't know I was in labor. Um I had eaten a snack cake.
SPEAKER_00Really?
SPEAKER_12And I had C-sections, so they had to wait. Because I had eaten a little Debbie. She was my girl. She got me through both those pregnancies. That's fantastic.
SPEAKER_16Because you'd eaten a little Debbie, they had to wait. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Wow. That's real. I'm learning stuff here. I know, it's science.
SPEAKER_03Okay, why why would I have to wait?
SPEAKER_12Um, because it's a surgical procedure. And even though I was not asleep, they didn't know if I would if I had to be put out that I would they were afraid that I would aspirate if I vomited, I would aspirate. Yeah. So your stomach has to be empty. That's why they have you be like no food. No, nothing. How does she go? She choked on a little Debbie. Yeah. Like if you like when I get to heaven and I'm standing in line waiting at the gate. You're gonna have a little Debbie. Yeah, like well, like you're in line with everybody and like how'd you get here? Like uh little Debbie got communion. I'm gluten-free and I had you know, real communion. Oh, me and little Debbie. Oh, I'm sorry about that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Amen. Yeah. So you spent like a year and a half in Alaska, you said?
SPEAKER_12Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_16And with a boy, with the same boy that went up there with you?
SPEAKER_12Yes, but I did not, we ended up parting ways because it got weird. And I got weird, and he got weird, and I was our weirds were not compatible. Yeah.
SPEAKER_16So is this another one that you pushed up, pushed away?
SPEAKER_12No. No, he was okay. It just didn't work. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Okay. Yeah, yeah. He was interested, she was not. Correct. Yeah.
SPEAKER_12And that was an okay thing.
SPEAKER_04It was that was okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_12Um yeah. So I came to what'd you do for work up there? I worked as a CNA, a nursing assistant. At the hospital with your godmom. Yeah, and a unit secretary.
SPEAKER_04You had certifications for that?
SPEAKER_12Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_04Really? Yep. How'd you get those?
SPEAKER_12I went to get I went to I took a class through a nursing nursing home after I graduated from.
SPEAKER_04Oh, nice, man. All right.
SPEAKER_12Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So maybe you just went online and printed some up or something. Please. I'm just kidding. Please. I'm just kidding.
SPEAKER_12We didn't have that back then.
SPEAKER_04No.
SPEAKER_12No.
SPEAKER_04I think you're like younger than you are for some reason.
SPEAKER_12I'm I'm older. Are you? I was born in 76.
SPEAKER_04I never would have guessed that. I would have never guessed that either. I'll be 50 this year. Really?
SPEAKER_16Yep. I would have thought you were like at least 40. What were you? 72? 72. Yeah.
SPEAKER_12All right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_16Yeah.
SPEAKER_12Look at us. Yeah. Look at this old timer.
SPEAKER_16You guys are real winners, man.
SPEAKER_13Come on. We are. Look at us.
SPEAKER_16We're from a different generation. You guys are you eat food that falls on the ground, you ride around on your bike. We talk crap. That's true.
SPEAKER_04We talk crap. We love sense of humor. Like it's a it's uh yeah, it's a joyful.
SPEAKER_12We'll try to make you cry if we can.
SPEAKER_04Oh yeah. Then laugh at you while you're crying. That's 100%. Like, look at you cry, baby. Yep. You guys are mean.
SPEAKER_02The crier drives me nuts.
unknownI am too nice.
SPEAKER_03I tell them all. Really? She brought her own box of puffs.
SPEAKER_16Oh wow. I thought Roddy put that there. No, no, no. No. Oh no, I offered. I said I've even got some. She said, nope. I use Puffs Plus. Amen.
SPEAKER_12I'm a bougie crier. I'm gonna moisturize with my Puffs Plus with load sugar moisturize.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, no red noses.
SPEAKER_12No.
SPEAKER_16What brings you back from Alaska back?
SPEAKER_12Um keep us on track, son.
SPEAKER_16Jesus.
SPEAKER_02It's hard with these two people. Sorry.
SPEAKER_16Sorry.
SPEAKER_12Um, what brought me back? I had severe depression.
SPEAKER_16It happens in Alaska. It really does.
SPEAKER_12And I was like, I'm ready to come home. I've had enough. I'd I had my adventure. Yeah. I was ready to come.
SPEAKER_16So you went up September 11th and then you were there for 18 months, you said? Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So is there much to do up there, is there?
SPEAKER_12There's a lot to do, actually. If you like. Well, and I was in a touristy area too. So like the cruise ships come into Juno. I was in the Capitol. So there's lots to do. And I do Is it snowing all the time though? I do some nature.
SPEAKER_15Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_12In small doses. Yeah. And then when I'm done, I go take a shower.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Okay. A lot of people I know that go up there say it's depressing. People that are there for extended periods of time. Because let me rephrase. People who are there for expended long periods of time say that it's depressing.
SPEAKER_16It's always great.
SPEAKER_04People that love to go and visit and have like a week or two there, love it, come back with great stories. Sure, sure, sure.
SPEAKER_12Yeah. So the weather there is insane.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_12Um, like I said, I was in the lower part, and so that is rainy all the time.
SPEAKER_04Similar to like Seattle area.
SPEAKER_12Very similar to Seattle Seattle.
SPEAKER_04I know people that are in Seattle that are constantly depressed because it's gray and rain and all the time.
SPEAKER_16It's one of the most depressed country states in the world in the country.
SPEAKER_12So that's that's very but when the sun came out because there's no pollution, it was so like the sky was so blue and the sun was so bright that it was painful. Really? Oh yeah, because there's no there's no pollution there.
SPEAKER_07Really?
SPEAKER_12Well, not back in 2001. Um it's it was just so bright. Oh, the brightness, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and so yeah, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. But when you're there and it's you know in the wintertime and the sun doesn't come out until nine, ten o'clock in the morning, and it goes back down at two in the afternoon, and you're working a 12-hour shift, so you start at seven in the morning and get done at seven at night, it's night. All the time. It's night. Um, even though it's not, but it is in your in your mind.
SPEAKER_04I'm sure there's people that just love that aspect of it.
SPEAKER_12Oh, sure.
SPEAKER_04Not me.
SPEAKER_12Oh, sure.
SPEAKER_04I like the daytime.
SPEAKER_12Um, I did I realized that I did need sunshine because I was like, I don't need I love rain. I love whatever. Yeah, yeah. Um, I very much needed vitamin D.
SPEAKER_04Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_12Very much.
SPEAKER_04Well, you're uh kind of an Arizona native, so you used to have periodic rain that's very lovely and lots of things.
SPEAKER_12I'm like, I don't know what to do with it. It's raining again, and I don't know what to do. Like, Noah where's the arc.
SPEAKER_02Um You gave us a rainbow. You said you wouldn't do it again.
SPEAKER_12Why is it still raining? Um Yeah, so I was I was just done. I'd had I'd had my adventure, I was ready to come home.
SPEAKER_16Um You came home to mom?
SPEAKER_12Came home to mom. Actually, I got she found me an apartment. She's like, you can't you can't come back here. Like not that we are your sisters still there? I have I have a couple of sisters, I think, that are still there. At least one. No, I have one sister that's there. The eight years. Youngest. Yeah. So she's now what 14, 15. Okay.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_04High school age.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_16Yeah. And then you three are kind of trying to find yourself. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_12So I um I was like, yeah, that's fine. And so I got an apartment, I had a roommate, and I what were you doing for work?
SPEAKER_16Okay.
SPEAKER_12I came back to the same hospital that I've been working at when I left. Yeah. So like all the same stuff, but I was bitter. Like I changed. I was not this I was not the same person.
SPEAKER_04What were you bitter about?
SPEAKER_12I don't know. That maybe people had moved on without me.
SPEAKER_04Oh.
SPEAKER_12Maybe.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_12Yeah. I yeah.
SPEAKER_04So you came back and it was just different.
SPEAKER_12It was everything was different.
SPEAKER_04So when you left, your sisters were still in the house or no?
SPEAKER_12Uh I no.
SPEAKER_04No. I had one 24, 22, and 24.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, we were kind of off, we were kind of off on our own. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so it was just when you say people, what do you mean?
SPEAKER_04Like my friends. Yeah, my friends. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_12Um, my sisters and I have a better relationship today. My dad pit us against each other. Oh yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. So we were at each other's throats all the time.
SPEAKER_15Yeah.
SPEAKER_12Horrible enemies. Wow. Horrible, horrible. Um, so yeah, we um, yeah, it's I was just angry and bitter. I came, I left angry and I came home angry. Really?
SPEAKER_16And angrier.
SPEAKER_12Probably, yeah. And it's it's interesting. I do, I'm like, oh, that was like a real Jonah moment. And I Alaska, I could not run away fast enough. And and it all came with me. It came yep, followed me everywhere I went.
SPEAKER_04Everywhere you go, there's Sarah. There it is.
SPEAKER_12She's either gonna make you cry or piss you off and you're gonna want to leave. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So um I came home and I I met Ryan had started coming to our church, so I went back to that small church and um was trying to fit in, trying to be good, trying to um, you know, be that Proverbs 31 woman that I am not. I'm judges for. I'm very JL. Very JL. And I'm comfortable with that. You know, there's a piece about that. Um, but I could not be that, I could not be that good girl. I couldn't do it. Um and so the more I put that mask on, I think that's why I loved dance and I loved theater, was because I didn't have to be Sarah.
SPEAKER_16Yeah.
SPEAKER_12Um I wasn't Sarah.
SPEAKER_16You could put the costume on and dress up and I'm not play this role. I'm not that wow.
SPEAKER_12Right. And so um coming home and trying to put that mask on, because I'd lived free in Alaska. Like nobody really knew me. I could do what I wanted, I lived how I wanted to live, and coming home, it was like, oh, I gotta be this girl again.
SPEAKER_04Let me ask you a question.
SPEAKER_12Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Proverbs 31 woman thing. While that's a great piece of scripture, and it's something to thrive and people want to try to ascertain, right? Do you think that's something that the church and women of the church try to make other women fit into a mold that is not necessarily for every woman?
SPEAKER_12A thousand, a thousand percent I do.
SPEAKER_04You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_16That's what the guys are.
SPEAKER_04I love the I love the idea of it. I love the the things that it's trying to to to help a woman become, but we we can't put every woman in this box. Well, every woman's gonna fit that box, and that's okay. They're still wonderful, God-fearing women. For sure. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_10For sure.
SPEAKER_04But I see so many things online videos where they're pushing this image that Christian women have to be and meek and mild and quiet. I think that's not that's not every woman.
SPEAKER_12I agree with you. I did have a mentor who explained it to me in a way that was like, oh, I guess maybe I am in a way, in my own way. I'm Proverbs 31. Because she's like, there, you are very at peace with who you are.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_12You know who you are. Now, again, I at this point I I have been going to CR for quite a while.
SPEAKER_15So like now I wait, where where what's the other thing?
SPEAKER_12Oh, you're talking about now this particular, like this mentor who is like Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04This is later on.
SPEAKER_12You are you are in your own way of Proverbs 31, but you're you're not yeah, you're not that, but you are at peace with who you are, you know who you are, and and that's equally yeah, that's what you're supposed to be. Yeah. Um so yeah, I was just so pissed off. Um and so I was like, I'm gonna leave the church, I'm gonna, I'm gonna leave, because there's nothing for me. I've got, I've I feel I there I have no purpose. I'm not doing anything. You're not serving. I'm not serving. Um I have what year is this? This is 2002. Yeah, somewhere in like middle of 2002. Okay. Probably the end.
SPEAKER_16Because if you went in 01 in about 18 months, so it's end of 22, yeah, beginning of 23. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
How Sarah And Ryan Got Together
SPEAKER_12So I um I met I met Ryan and he's a nice kid. Yeah, it's nice to meet you. Um, he was helping out with tech. We had a we had a um doesn't surprise me. I know in the booth, baby. I know he was so we had a like uh junior high in the high school like uh drama group because in the nine like nineties, it was huge, huge. So we had one of those in our tiny church, and um I was like a choreographer. I'd been a choreographer, and then I moved to Alaska, and I was still like even still choreographing, I would send things via like I the guy that I was my roommate was into computers too. So he figured out how to like videotape me choreographing something and then he would send it like via however.
SPEAKER_09Wow.
SPEAKER_12I I still I'm not technology, okay. Just so you know. I'm not numbers, I'm not math. I got a guy. I know I got a guy. I know I got a guy. I got a guy. So um, so yeah, I had been choreographing for this group. I came home. That pastor, the pastor that was over there, he was a worship pastor, he um so his family moved on to another church, and so they were like, we need somebody to like lead this group, Sarah. Can you lead the group? And I was like, I don't think that's a good idea. Like, I hate kids, and they're like, right, but these are not baby kids, these are like and I was like, I hate those the most. Yeah, of course people, and they don't listen and they're kind of horrible. And they're like, try it. So I I did it for a few years and a couple years, and I'd asked Ryan if he wanted to be like he was our tech, like he was our tech advisor, but I asked him if he wanted to be our um uh like my assistant director type of thing. Yeah, and he was like, Yeah, I'd love to. Um, I thought he was a cute kid, like I said, he's five years younger than me, by the way, in case you didn't not know that he is nice. So I was like, this kid's cute, whatever. Um, he's probably hating this right now. He's red. I know. Sorry, sorry, but you are you're still a cute kid. Um so but we we were friends for a while, and then it something had happened. I'd given a direct I'd asked him to do something or asked him not to do something, whatever. It doesn't matter. He did not listen to me, and I lost it. Like lost it, and I fired him.
SPEAKER_07Really?
SPEAKER_12So anybody who says like you can't get fired from a volunteer position, yes, you can. Yeah, you can. Um, you can get fired from a volunteer position. Yes, you can, but you better be careful because you might marry that person. You might, but for whatever reason, again, I was like, That's probably when he fell in love with you. Yeah, probably you're trying to push him away. I like this one. I'm gonna be honest with you, no, because I was a jerk. I was so mean to him, and I was so I was I truly, and this is where people laugh when they know Ryan. Um, because I hated him and I do nothing halfway. Yeah, I mean, I will not half-ass anything. I all the way hated Ryan with every level. And we went to a small church, like you couldn't walk past, you know, each other. I tried to avoid him.
SPEAKER_07Really?
SPEAKER_12I wouldn't talk to him, I wouldn't make eye contact. If he was in the we had like a like a great hall, like a great room. Yeah, if he was in there, absolutely not. I will not go in that room. And they're like, Well, we need you, like you're leading a group in there. And I go, no, yeah, absolutely not. Um it it was the level of hate that I had for this man was insane. I laugh at it now. It's laughable how much I hated him. I have to ask you. He'd done nothing.
SPEAKER_04I have to ask you.
SPEAKER_12Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Listen to your story so far.
SPEAKER_12Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_04Was this a defense mechanism because you really liked the guy?
SPEAKER_12I don't think so. No, I think I was just pissed.
SPEAKER_04Because it's from what I hear from you from now, is when you think you really like somebody that you might try to portray something opposite to push them away. You know what I mean? So maybe you really Because you thought he was a cute kid. Maybe you really had a thing for him, and you were just trying to reverse psychology. I hate this guy. I'm gonna push him away because I really like him, kind of thing.
SPEAKER_12I don't know. I I'm not to think about that. I'm gonna think, I'll think about that. I mean, we've been married for 19 years, so clearly it worked out.
SPEAKER_16Yeah. But I at the time you were mad. I was super mad.
SPEAKER_12I was angry at him, and I was like, Well, I don't think it was just him.
SPEAKER_04I think it was just for the record, Ryan, she fired you because she loved your buddy. She couldn't, she didn't know what to do with it.
SPEAKER_16I tried to get him on screen, guys, so we could get all the reactions, man. But he said no, this is that's a story, and I'm sticking to it, bud.
SPEAKER_12I got I'll have to think about that. I know, because I re I wanted nothing to do with him, like nothing to do with him. I was so angry at him. And um, yeah, so probably I don't know when that was.
SPEAKER_16What happened to the point where that switched?
SPEAKER_12That's a great story. Um we had a youth intern come to our church from was it Ozark Christian? Yeah. He was going to Ozark Christian. He had been a low so he'd grown he grew up in Arizona. He knew like a couple of families that were going to our church, and so he got them to help him get a youth intern because we couldn't keep a youth pastor to save our life. Um and I get it, because the youth is hard.
SPEAKER_09That's hard, that's tough.
SPEAKER_12Um so we had this youth intern and he took a liking to me. Again, I'm kind of okay looking, um Sass, you know, sarcasm that draws people in. Very inviting sarcasm, very inviting real inviting. Um but this kid had said, like, hey, what do you think of Sarah? Like, she's really cute. And they were like, Do do not get involved with any of those girls. Like there three of us were attending. They're they're like, do not, absolutely not. Talking about you, sisters. Yeah, yeah, me and my sisters. And so he made the mistake of saying that to me. He's like, Oh, yeah, I was told not to get involved with you because you're like, and I go, Oh, really? Well, now we're gonna date. Well, we're going on a date now. We are doing it again.
SPEAKER_04You're proving my point.
SPEAKER_12I know, but this guy was a problem, and he was a real problem. And I was like, Oh, I this is not the guy for me at all. Yeah, um, but he stalked me. That's funny.
SPEAKER_16He stalked me.
SPEAKER_12Um I know the the things that through my space. No, physically, like my apartment was down the street. And he like parked out in front and what no, well, kind of. So like my apartment was on on the corner of one of the street that the church was on. Okay. So it's a long street. My apartment's down here. I can walk to the church.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_12There's a couple of like neighborhood streets. He was house sitting in a house on this corner. So he would watch me walk over to the church because I was I had an office, I was running a youth drama group. So I had to have an office there. And so this guy would watch me and he would show up and he'd be like, Hey, what's up? And I'm like, eh, okay, don't, I'm not, you know, like we I I'd really like kind of distanced myself. Like, we'd gone on a couple of dates, and then I was like, Oh, this is not the guy for me. And I'm I hate to admit it, but they were right, but also don't don't tell me I can't do something because now I have to, yeah, for sure. Right. So so I we went on a couple of dates, and I was like, nah, no, no, no. But he would follow me. And so one night he it was right before he was getting ready to leave, and he's like, hey, like, and I'm working in my office, and he's like, Hey, you know, I'm I'm getting ready to go back. And I go, Yeah, I know. To the Ozarks, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I can't wait for you to leave.
SPEAKER_16I've been trying to push you away for a while, but ring for you, you know, like everything.
SPEAKER_12And he goes, Well, you know, I I I um I I would like to have a long distance relationship with you. And I looked at him and I go, I don't want to have a local relationship with you. So no. But I did not know that outside of my office there was a gentleman who was working on putting like he was re gluing the cove basing up on the wall. Outside my office. I had no idea. So Ryan pops into my doorway and he's like, Hey, I'm all done with work. Are you ready to go? Like, we're gonna go get dinner. Are you ready to go? And I was like, Hell yes, I am ready to go.
SPEAKER_14Oh wow.
SPEAKER_12So I was like, hey, good luck in the future. You're gonna do great things. Goodbye. Please um get out of my office so I can shut the door and lock it. And you can please go and go. So Ryan, oh, by the way, I don't have a driver's license at this point. Like I anxiety. Yeah. I my dad was the one who was supposed to teach us how to drive, and I was like, I'm not getting in a car with that man ever. So I don't have a driver's license. I have taken buses and cabs and done all the things. Really? But I have not driven a car.
SPEAKER_15Wow.
SPEAKER_16Okay.
SPEAKER_12So I'm walking.
SPEAKER_16And you are at this point probably 28?
SPEAKER_12Uh I was 26. 26? 26? Okay. Five, twenty-six, something like that. Yeah. So I'm I was like, hey, thank you so much for the ride home. Like Ryan? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ryan, Ryan was like, You guys all went out to dinner. Yeah.
SPEAKER_16Well, I was like a group of people from the church?
SPEAKER_12No, it was just me and him. Oh. Because he was like, hey, because I was by myself.
SPEAKER_16He wasn't the guy outside the room gluing the thing.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, that was him.
unknownOh.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, that was him. He was the deacon at the church. And so he was, you know, coming in and making some upgrades. Yeah. Yeah. And so he overheard the exchange. Like, I need to bell her out.
SPEAKER_01I gotta save her.
SPEAKER_12He's thinking, I think he was like, I gotta save this guy. She will kill him.
SPEAKER_02Oh, he's trying to save the guy. She wasn't worried about you.
SPEAKER_12He's already dealt with me. He's already, he knows this is what I'm capable of. And so I'm not sure. You gotta save his brother. He's about ready to get off.
SPEAKER_16So you don't want to see that side of her buddy. I looked at Ryan.
SPEAKER_12I was like, hey, I really appreciate it. Um, I'm broke as a joke, so I can't get dinner with you, but like I can make you a turkey sandwich. And Ryan's like, I I actually just want to go, like, I'll let me get dinner. Like, I'll let's go to this place. So we go, we have dinner. It's we're having the time of like we're chatting. It's hilarious. We were literally shit talking this poor kid. I mean, I'm not a good person. Not a good, I'm not a good person. Um, and I dragged Ryan with me. Okay, I did. I dragged him down, down, down, down. Um, but what do they say?
SPEAKER_16Somebody always has to settle. It was Ryan.
SPEAKER_12And it was Ryan. Ryan settled. That poor man. I married him way above my station. Um, but he, so I was like, oh, this is. Your station?
SPEAKER_04Is that a medical thing?
SPEAKER_12No, like above my station in life.
SPEAKER_04I call it out cutting, out punting your coverage.
SPEAKER_12Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So you said station, I was thinking nursing station. No.
SPEAKER_08No, that's not a good thing. No?
SPEAKER_11No.
SPEAKER_04Where'd you learn that from?
SPEAKER_11Uh, probably a book. Star Wars or something? No, not Star Wars.
SPEAKER_04No. Married outside your station. That's a good one. Yeah. Oh.
SPEAKER_16Either marry up or I'm just like that's a unique below.
SPEAKER_12He married below. He really settled. Poor guy scraped the bottom. Um, I know. Sorry. Gum under the table.
SPEAKER_02Um what's under this seat? Yeah. Me. Oh my god. Hi. Hello.
SPEAKER_12Hey, howdy. Um, so we just started hanging out, and it was the great, no. Was it?
SPEAKER_16He can't answer you. He's not on a mic. I know, I know. You just gotta share.
SPEAKER_12I think it so the first time he gave me a ride home was from my sister's graduation party. Because three of the kids at the church all graduated at the same time. And so they did like a big joint. They were all friends, and their moms were all friends, and they were all like single moms. And so they did like a big joint graduation party. And so I was I had to go home to go to work. And Ryan was like, Hey, I can give you a ride home, like I'm leaving. And I was like, Okay, and this is before this is before this one thing. This is before this one. Okay. So he I was like, Oh, okay, yeah, thanks. I I appreciate that. He's like, Yeah, no problem. And we had an my mom did not, so I was at my mom's house at this point, and she did not live far from the church either. So it was not a lengthy drive, but it was a pleasant one, I'll say that.
SPEAKER_09It wasn't horrible.
SPEAKER_12Um and then and then he rescued me from the kid, and um, or the he rescued the kid from me. Either way, either way, somebody got rescued.
SPEAKER_14Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_12Um we just started hanging out like every day. Really? All the time. And he was it was the first time that I did not feel smothered, like I looked forward to hanging out with him.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_12We talked on the phone all the time. Um texting was difficult because we didn't have the phones that we have today, so it was like you had to go through every number and stuff I'm gonna do. Yeah, it's like I'm not texting you. You're getting a response before you're done responding, and you're like, oh, then another. He's super technology, so he's like clicking. So he was like he was one conversation ahead of you. And I'm like, I I can't keep, I'm old. I can't keep on. Old. You're not old. So let's talk, like, can we just talk on the phone? And we would talk for hours, hours, hours, hours. So I was like, I I realized I was like, oh, I am falling in love with this guy, and I hate I'm supposed to hate him. And I got mad. I remember getting mad at God. I was like, how could you do this to me? And he's like, I know. Sorry, not sorry. Yeah, I'm not sorry. Like he's gonna be it's gonna be okay. Like, I just need you to trust me. And I was like, this is the worst.
SPEAKER_16So you were believing that God put Ryan into your life.
SPEAKER_12Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. How could how could I not knowing what I had done to this poor guy? Yeah. And then he's gonna put him back in my life. And he never really left because like I said, we went to the same church, but there was like a hundred and fifty of us in this church. You can't not see each other.
SPEAKER_16Because yeah, you hated him. Of course. You hated him and then I still have to argue that point.
SPEAKER_04Okay, I still have to argue that point. I don't think that was the case at all.
SPEAKER_12I mean, we're married. I know, I know, and that that floored everyone was like, I'm sorry, what now? And I was like, Yeah, I know. Did it show you?
SPEAKER_03Did you hate? Did you fire? They did, they did.
SPEAKER_12They were like, I thought you hated.
SPEAKER_04You just keep proving my point, man.
SPEAKER_12I was like, I know. I yeah. And we had so many people bet against us at our wedding. We had so many people. At your wedding people come. We had people coming up to us at our reception going, like, hey, if this doesn't work out, like, don't come, don't come crawling to us.
SPEAKER_16We were like, Oh my god. That gives you more of a reason to show people from the church. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_12I was like, okay, okay, we will stay married forever. We will hate each other. Yeah, but we are never getting divorced.
SPEAKER_15Wow.
SPEAKER_12And then I was messy, as one is when one is not shielded. Well, I just was messy out loud. I was gross. I was I was really like we had had our first child, postpartum was not kind. Oh, Jesus. I was not okay.
SPEAKER_04I was when you see somebody throw up, you can acknowledge, hey man, they're throwing up all over the place. Yeah. You know what I mean? It doesn't make it gross, it just means they're throwing up.
SPEAKER_12Yes.
SPEAKER_16Um, but this when you say messy, like you were mean with your words, like your dad.
SPEAKER_12I was crazy. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_09I was super crazy.
SPEAKER_16Because there's a lot of stuff that you've been sharing that I see your father in over and over and over. I'm like, I was my you're a chip off the old block.
SPEAKER_01For sure.
SPEAKER_10Oh, for sure.
SPEAKER_04I was absolutely we need to invest in another microphone and we need to start having couples sit down. That would have been a cool experience to have Ryan. That's not how it was at all. You know what I mean? Oh, it's historical.
SPEAKER_12If you ask him, because I was like, remember when we hated each other? And he's like, I did not hate you. She's trying to project it onto the room. I was like, I totally hated you. And he's like, Yes. Oh. I know. He's like, everybody knows that. I was like, oh, okay. He's like, I didn't, I did not hate you. And I was like, Are you sure you didn't hate me a little bit?
SPEAKER_04And he's like, so people say you're the quiet one?
SPEAKER_12No. Oh, okay. For the sake of that. I think I'm nice.
SPEAKER_04Really?
SPEAKER_16Yes. Yeah. I thought she was a little sweetheart. Yeah. She's like, she's so nice. She's dealing with rage and anger, bro. Yeah. I know. She'd like to trick it up. I clean, I clean up okay. I clean up nice.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, no, so I was I was not okay. And so that's real.
SPEAKER_04Motherhood has been changed to date for before you got married.
SPEAKER_12We dated a year. We got engaged um on our one-year anniversary. And I was angry about that. Who asked? He did. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, that's a fun story, too. Oh, yeah. Let's get into it. We went hiking. We went hiking in Sedona. And it wasn't like nature. I like nature in small doses. In small doses.
SPEAKER_16Okay. A hike will work.
SPEAKER_12She just don't like to touch stuff in nature. And she needs a shower after. That's correct. 100%. Thank you. All right. You get it. So I had a feeling something was going to happen. I didn't know when. I, in my mind, I was going to get engaged. I was going to be glamorous. In reality, I was wearing a baseball cap, um, a t-shirt, uh like hiking boots, and like corduroy pants. Like I'm we're hiking. A mountain girl, yeah. We're hiking.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_12Uh no makeup.
SPEAKER_04Uh time of year is it?
SPEAKER_12Nothing glamorous. September.
SPEAKER_04Okay. And um trying to figure out who the hell hikes in corduroy pants. It must have been cold.
SPEAKER_12I hike in corduroy pants. Really? Oh, for sure.
SPEAKER_04You live in Arizona.
SPEAKER_10Yeah. I was in Sedona.
SPEAKER_04And corduroys are thick. September? September. It's not that cold in September. Sedona, is it?
SPEAKER_12I get you get cold in the AC. I know. What are you talking about?
SPEAKER_02Get out of the shower, bro. It's a blanket, Dad.
SPEAKER_14Don't tap me, please.
SPEAKER_02You get cold sitting on the couch.
SPEAKER_12Okay.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_10Oh, man.
SPEAKER_12So we are hiking, and then we stop at this, like it's it's Oak Creek. It is all Oak Creek. Okay. So there's this little area, there's like this little patch where you can walk kind of, you're on land, but it's like Oak Creek around this land. And then there's the path. The hiking path. And so we're we're out in this area. And we're like, oh, this is like we're he's kind of like this is me. That's him. Okay. So I'm looking, I'm looking off, and I'm like, oh gosh. And he's like, it's every isn't this beautiful? And I go, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's great. And he goes, he goes, hey, I just want you to know, like, I love you. And I go, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love you too. And he goes, no, I I love you. And I go, and um, and he goes, No, Sarah, I love you. And I turn around and that jerk is on one knee and he's got a ring box. And he goes, so and he goes, Will you marry me? And I looked at him and I go, shut up.
SPEAKER_02Told him to shut up. But he did.
SPEAKER_12I go, you shut up. And he goes, I um. So is that a yes? Is that yeah, is that a yes? And I go, oh my god, yes. Uh yes, yes, I will marry you. Yes, a hundred percent I will marry you. And he's like, okay. He's like, I don't know what is happening. We had there was like people on the other side of the of Oak Creek, and they were like, oh, this is so beautiful. And I was like, what this is not how I imagined it, and yet it was perfect. It was so perfect. And so yeah, we got engaged in Sedona, it was magnificent, and it was like eight months before we got married. So yep. So we had some we had some time to kind of process some things and go, you know. I went to therapy thinking that like I was not gonna bring my dad into my marriage. I totally brought my dad into my marriage.
SPEAKER_16Um, brought my dad into my parents' yeah, but up to this point you hadn't done recovery, you hadn't done and gone through any kind of healing.
SPEAKER_12You're still I'd done a little bit of therapy when I realized that I loved Ryan. I was like, oh, if I marry this guy, I'm gonna have to like I'm gonna have to be Proverbs 31. Okay, I'm gonna have to be Proverbs 31. You know. Okay. Um so no, no, but no recovery, no real healing. But I was like, oh, okay, I feel I feel better now, so I can I can move on. Uh we had Lily, we had our first our first daughter, and I was a disaster. I was a disaster because I wanted Ryan to love our children because I was so afraid that he was not gonna love because of my dad. Um now Ryan is a magnificent girl dad. He is the best. Um I'm secretly jealous that my girls have such a magnificent dad. And yet I married him, so I get to live with him forever. But he is spectacular. Spectacular.
SPEAKER_16Um he prioritizes them, I'll tell you that. For sure. There's been a lot of things that I've tried to, and he's I got dance, I got this. It's like he knows his priorities, he's got them in the line.
SPEAKER_12He does. He knows how to do a bun. Nice. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_16I saw this guy braiding the other night. He's braiding my sister's hair.
SPEAKER_12It's like, oh yeah, yeah, he can do a braid.
SPEAKER_16He's I don't know if you've heard, but uh every man wants a boy, but every man needs a girl. Yeah, huh?
SPEAKER_12I have never heard that.
SPEAKER_16It just does something for a man when you have this precious girl. Yeah, we want the boys to play the sports and do the stuff and a little me, but the girl, a girl, it just does something to a man's heart and it just softens them a little bit.
SPEAKER_12Well, these girls had their daddy wrapped real tight from the word go, from the moment they made their entrance. He was like, Oh, I will kill someone for that. Amen. I would. I'm going to go to jail for those girls.
SPEAKER_04I tell people that all the time. I won't go back to prison, but you mess with my mess with my family and my kids. I'll make a call. I'll go do another 10. I mean, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_12And he would, I think he would do that as well. Um, yeah, but I was a disaster.
Postpartum Depression And Church Hurt
SPEAKER_12I was, I was so, I was a disaster. And so we were postpartum? Oh, yeah. Really? Depression. Yeah, depression. Really? Um, I got on medication. Um, I was told that I was not a good Christian because I didn't trust God in the world.
SPEAKER_16God dang, man. That's what they say. That's what they used to say, bro. You need to have more faith.
SPEAKER_12Who's they?
SPEAKER_16The church. You can't take pills because it show you don't have faith in the world. But I didn't care.
SPEAKER_12I didn't care. I was like, I cannot feel the way that I feel. And be I can't.
SPEAKER_04I will never let another person tell me I'm not a good anything. Especially a Christian. It's like, go pull the plank out of your eye first.
SPEAKER_12But well, and in my in in my like, I'm fully aware that I'm not a good Christian. I know this. I know that. I love God, but I cannot ever give him what he deserves.
SPEAKER_04What's a good Christian, though?
SPEAKER_12I mean, that's true. We're all broken.
SPEAKER_16I mean, I mean, some are just more willing to show it than others.
SPEAKER_04If somebody has a idea of what a good Christian is, I know, you're probably far from it.
SPEAKER_12Ryan found this t-shirt yesterday that is like, oh, I I I I need it. It's like my my role models all are convicts or something. And it's like Paul, um Jesus, like whatever. All my role models meant to jail. It's all the apostles, yeah. I'm like, yeah. And even Jesus is on there.
SPEAKER_04Here's the most beautiful thing, right? We read the scripture, right? We read Abraham.
SPEAKER_12Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Dude was gonna kill his son.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_04You know what I mean? And it's like, and he's called the father of faith. Here we have David who killed his best friend, so he can sleep with his wife, called a man after God's own heart. You know what I mean? The most anybody who's ever had anything wrong, all they gotta do is read the Bible and they'll see themselves in some person in the story and realize that if God can call this person a father of faith, man after their own heart, redeem. You know, yeah.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_04If you think you're perfect and you go read the Bible, you should be convicted that maybe you're not quite as perfect as you think you're I would agree.
SPEAKER_12Um, and it stung, it stung when we when I was asked, I it was like you gotta go. Yeah. And I was horribly oh yeah, I was gotta go where? Wait a minute. We had to le I had to leave.
SPEAKER_16You had to leave the church? What the hell? Because you were in postpartum and you were taking meds.
SPEAKER_12No, I was messy. I was messy.
SPEAKER_16You were saying things that you shouldn't have said.
SPEAKER_12I don't know that I was I I think I was just irrational or people didn't like the way that I handled things, or and I didn't like the way I handled everything either, guys.
SPEAKER_04Okay, I'm not gonna sit here and But the church is a hospital for the broken yes, for the sick, yes, where you're supposed to be.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, 100%. Damn. So I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_16I was getting ready to say we we have we have done so many of these, sister, and we have we have apologized on behalf of Jesus and what the real church is supposed to look like. And sister, I'm sorry that you saw things and experienced things that were not Christ-like.
SPEAKER_12I was a part of it too for a long time until the church should be messy.
SPEAKER_04That's right.
SPEAKER_12I agree with you on that one.
SPEAKER_04Church should be messy as hell.
SPEAKER_12I agree with you.
SPEAKER_16It should be filled with people that are lame, sick, broken, mental health. Yes, that's the most that's what church should be.
SPEAKER_12And at the time I was good and embarrassed. And I couldn't, like, I didn't tell Ryan.
SPEAKER_04Damn religious people.
SPEAKER_12I know it. I know it. The Pharisees.
SPEAKER_04I know.
SPEAKER_12But I couldn't even tell Ryan. I couldn't even tell Ryan. Really? I couldn't. I told him something else.
SPEAKER_16So the church came to you because you were on staff and had an office. I wasn't on staff. I wasn't on staff anymore.
SPEAKER_12No, no, no.
SPEAKER_04Okay. The church came to you without your husband? Uh-huh. Are you serious?
SPEAKER_12Yes. One person came to me.
SPEAKER_04Pastoral?
SPEAKER_12Adjacent.
SPEAKER_16And said you had to go without you without your husband present.
SPEAKER_04Correct. Wow. Really? Yeah. That's very unhealthy. That's out of line.
SPEAKER_12But I could come back when I was all better.
unknownWhoa.
SPEAKER_16Are you serious? For real. Why would I want to come back here?
SPEAKER_12So we left. And then they talked shit about us to everyone. Of course they did. I was like, oh, okay. Um but and my. Just so you know, that says way more about them than it does you guys.
SPEAKER_04I know. You know what I mean? It really does.
SPEAKER_12I know. And I'm grateful. I I'm grateful. I'm very grateful. I wish that I had to be a little bit more.
SPEAKER_04I'm glad you got the hell out of there because what the hell is that? Me too.
SPEAKER_12Well, my family is still there. My mom and my sisters are still uh have a couple of sisters that still attend there. And I wish that I had been brave enough to tell them what exactly had happened. It took me a very long time to tell my mom. Um, because she they were so angry at me and they were very bitter, um, resentful that we left. Um, because this was the family church, like we go to church here. And I was like, yeah.
SPEAKER_04So they were just under the impression that you guys just left. Yeah. Oh, really?
SPEAKER_12That we abandoned. Right. Because that's what was said. Well, so you're another there's another family jumping ship.
SPEAKER_16You said that you didn't tell Ryan the real reason. So what did you tell him?
SPEAKER_12I told him that I stopped hearing God.
SPEAKER_16Really?
SPEAKER_12Mm-hmm at church.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_12So it's time to go. Time to go. And he had seen some things too that he was like, Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Amen.
SPEAKER_12All right. Um I think a part of the.
SPEAKER_04Can I just say I'm glad you guys were like on the same page and that there wasn't, you know.
SPEAKER_12This crazy kook has been supportive of me since day one, and there's no reason for it.
SPEAKER_03Same. Same. Um I'm glad it didn't. Yeah. He could've. We're not leaving here this time. Because that was his church too.
SPEAKER_16Right, right. That he kind of grew up.
SPEAKER_12He was a deacon. Right, yeah. Yeah. Wow. So we we went to another church.
Landing At Compass With Guard Up
SPEAKER_12We went to a great church. Went to Compass Christian Church. Fantastic. Um, but that is where I was introduced to to celebrate recovery. We'd done I thought we'd done very well hiding my crap. Um for what, like a couple of years maybe? Yeah. Um I was a disaster.
SPEAKER_01Really?
SPEAKER_12I was a disaster. It was everywhere you go, there it is, until you deal with it.
SPEAKER_16Deal with it. Yeah. Get out of denial. Yeah. So what what you go into so you're at Comp, you show up to Compass, great church. That's where I actually met you guys. Yeah, yeah. And you guys are at when I met you, you were doing stuff there. But when you first showed up there, when was it? It was 2010.
SPEAKER_12Okay. Um, and we were just sliding into service and sliding back out. Okay. We were not going to be friends with anybody on staff. Okay. We were not going to get involved in anything. Oh, for sure. You had church hurt for sure. And okay. We were not going to serve. Um, absolutely not. Um, and then Ryan got a hold. He got a glimpse of their sound booth.
SPEAKER_16I want to do this. They got some nice stuff. He's like, oh, it was the text massive. It's the big board. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_12And he's like, don't be mad. And I'm like, well, I'm there. Well, I am already mad. Already mad. What are you doing? Buddy. I start out mad. So we can we can take it in several degrees up or we can take it down. Where are we going? And he's like, um, I saw the soundboard and I was like, son of a babe, it's bigger than our counter. And it was. It was bigger than our kitchen. I was like, he wants to play.
SPEAKER_01I hate that soundbooth.
SPEAKER_10I'm sorry. And I go, I don't think you are.
SPEAKER_12He goes, I am. I'm sorry.
unknownYou're not.
SPEAKER_12Um he started serving.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_16So that means he has to go to church earlier.
SPEAKER_12Mm-hmm. Which means we have to go to church earlier because I don't drive still. Still don't drive. Today? Oh, now I do. Oh, for sure now. But back then. Back then, I didn't. Yeah. I still wasn't driving.
SPEAKER_16You say back then, like that was well, it was be it was before her healing. It was before recovery. It was before the anxiety. She was still anxious. She was still bitter. She was still mad. She was still rage.
SPEAKER_12It was 2012 that he was in there because Aaron was born in 2012.
SPEAKER_04Oh, a thousand percent. Seriously. For real. Really?
SPEAKER_12For real.
SPEAKER_04That's very interesting.
SPEAKER_16Man, guys, be nice to your girls, dude. Be careful the words that you're speaking to your girls, guys. Boy, the the girls are not like the boys.
SPEAKER_12Man. Boys need to hear good things too.
SPEAKER_16Yeah, but boys can get some some tough love. You know, girls are just precious and they're they're easily broken. They're easily broken.
SPEAKER_04Men don't need tough love.
SPEAKER_10They need to be cherished and they need to be.
SPEAKER_04They do love and respect. I believe that.
SPEAKER_12I do believe our boys, they need that. They need to it's a good thing.
SPEAKER_04There's a reason why we got so many damn men running around. Screwed up. Screwed up.
SPEAKER_16I gotta be tough and I can't cry. Oh man, crap.
SPEAKER_12Amen.
SPEAKER_04I think the biggest thing that men don't teach men is how to process emotions.
SPEAKER_12Oh, a hundred percent.
SPEAKER_04We tell them to bury it, rub some dirt on it.
SPEAKER_12Don't make eye contact with it.
SPEAKER_04Don't cry. I'll give you something to cry about. You know what I mean? That's the worst. That is the worst. Yep. I don't know why we try to teach our men that. And then we wonder why we got all these men that are just crazy, crazy screwed up in the head.
SPEAKER_16Drinking and using and mad.
SPEAKER_04Yep. That's the one thing I wish my dad would have taught me was how to process my emotions. To let them have a proper place, deal with them in a healthy way, and not just stuff them. Yeah. You know what I mean? I really wish that was something. They need to have that as a curriculum in school.
SPEAKER_16That's good, Dan.
SPEAKER_04You know what I mean? They used to have the what the home economics for girls growing up. They should have had an emotional processing class for men growing up. And I mean they really should have.
SPEAKER_12I agree. I agree with you on that one. Um, but thank God for CR, right? Come on. Right.
SPEAKER_16So I had no idea CR was gonna. I didn't know what I was stepping into.
SPEAKER_14Right.
SPEAKER_16When I I was just going to support this guy, dude. I didn't want to step into it. Next thing I know, it's like, oh, I belong here.
SPEAKER_04I know prior to our journey now, I had been to CR a couple other times.
SPEAKER_12Okay.
SPEAKER_04And I had some other friends that invited me and I went. I had loved the worship. I'm like, cool. We're like church. You know what I mean? That's what he got me to go. He's like, let's go sit at these tables and talk. And I'm like, I'm out.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_04I'm a man. I don't talk about myself. You know what I mean? So I would just go for the worship and loved it. I'm like, this is the best. Right. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_16And it and large group is, it was wonderful. It was.
SPEAKER_12I literally thought it was just for addiction. So when I so many people do. For sure, for sure. And I laugh about it too when I would talk to people about CR and they're like, oh no, no, no, I'm not.
SPEAKER_15Yeah. Which I had said the same thing.
SPEAKER_12Um, my mind in that sound booth, in the very sound booth that drew Ryan in, yeah, I lost my mind. Really? And I spewed all kinds of words. Right. Poor, poor man.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_12And um the pastor who was over um the tech arts, he was like, Hold up, like you cannot talk to him like that. Like, are you talking about him? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I lost it on him. Okay. And so this pastor's like, hey, like, he's getting ready to work. Like, we're about to open the doors for Saturday night service. And he I need his mind on this. Like, you cannot do this to him. And I know that it was Holy Spirit that was like, this is the guy you're gonna tell everything to. And I just vomited my whole story on this poor man who is getting ready to detect, yeah, is getting ready to open the doors for Saturday night service. Wow. Um, and he looked at me and he's like, I am so sorry for the life you have known. I am so deeply sorry. Yeah, um, you are not okay. And I was like, no shit. Sorry. No, you're good.
SPEAKER_05You're totally good.
SPEAKER_12We're not religious, you're okay. There's grace.
SPEAKER_02Cool. I love Jesus, but I like to cuss a little too. I want that bumper sticker. I want that bumper sticker. I love Jesus, but I cuss a little bit. If you can't handle it, then that's your problem.
SPEAKER_12I mean, right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_16So there's people, there's people out there that get more offended by a cuss word than they do, and they'll they'll speak against us for cussing rather than seeing the life that God has redeemed us from and our faith that we have to celebrate that. That rather than celebrate our faith in the redemption that God's given us, they'd rather look down on us for cussing. I hear you.
SPEAKER_04Just to see where we came from. I know.
unknownI know.
SPEAKER_05Right. Used to be every other word.
SPEAKER_04I'm okay with that. So we have a new campus that we set up at a school, right? Our secondary campus. And the pastor's hilarious. He's like, what's the two most important things? I'm like, don't punch your neighbor and no cussing. They're like, no, Eddie, the cushion's on the door. And I'm like, oh my bad. I'm just trying not to hit this guy because he's annoying me. And I might want to get a cuss word. And it could happen.
SPEAKER_01It could happen. It could be.
SPEAKER_04My Bible says lay hands on those who are sick. And this guy is very sick. I might want to put hands on them.
SPEAKER_01I'll put them on a button. I'll put it on them on a button.
SPEAKER_16I'm going to lay hands is not the ones you want.
SPEAKER_01I will.
SPEAKER_13I will.
SPEAKER_16It doesn't say how to lay it.
SPEAKER_03It just says lay hands on them, brother. In my world, that's not these right here.
SPEAKER_13I can't. Yeah. I can't. Sometimes people need to tune up. A little adjustment. You know what I mean? I don't disagree with you on that one.
SPEAKER_04So check this out a mint gel. Yeah. This guy, I hear him talking about. Okay, forgive me for the language I'm getting ready to use. He's saying there's no woods in this pod, just a bunch of Caucasians. Okay. For those that don't know, that's white. So go tell the box. The woods are the white boys. Go tell the leader what he said, right? And the guy says, Oh, he's lying. I didn't say that. And I don't like being called a liar. I'm walking with God.
SPEAKER_10Right.
SPEAKER_04I don't like to be called a liar. Right. I go up there. I put hands on dude.
SPEAKER_10Sure.
SPEAKER_04Right? I go back down to my cell. I get on my knees, I'm praying. I'm like, God, I'm so sorry. God, I was trying so hard not to be like this anymore. You know what I mean? And God said, it's not my forgiveness you need. It's his. So I gotta go back up to the pot back up to the guy's cell. And I'm like, hey, dude, I'm sorry. I just like roughed you up a little bit. But I'm trying to do this Christian thing, man, and I need you to forgive me. He's like, oh no, you're good. Right? I'm like, all right, just I need your forgiveness, bro. I go back down, I get out my Bible, I'm reading my Bible, I'm praying. The dude walks into my cell and says, Hey man, uh, I've been a heroin addict for 15 years, man. Does this Christian stuff really work?
SPEAKER_12Ma'am. And I'm like, You brought someone to Jesus by beating him up?
SPEAKER_04Yes, ma'am.
SPEAKER_12Bravo, Eddie.
SPEAKER_04So I say, sit down. You heard that, Ryan Black. I told him, sit down. I was like, bro, I'm new at all this. I don't have the answers for you. But the all the answers you need are in this book right here. I advise you to go get one. Let me pray for you. You know what I mean? And he left that night. Never seen him again.
SPEAKER_13Dang.
SPEAKER_04So when my Bible says put hands on people, you better do it.
SPEAKER_13Boom, boom, boom, boom, we're gonna do it. We're going.
SPEAKER_04But yeah, I couldn't believe God did that. I literally beat the crap out of the guy. Had to go ask him forgiveness and then led him to the Lord. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's God.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's God.
SPEAKER_16Yeah. That's the real God. That's not the God that you put in the box. That's the one that does things a little bit different.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I literally just beat the living crap out of you.
SPEAKER_10Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. It shocked me. He came walking in my son, was like, hey, that's a good thing. Does this thing really work? Because I'm I'm tired of being a heroin act. You know what I mean? Yeah. Damn. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's cool.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_04So if I gotta put hands on you, I'm gonna put hands on you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Don't take my kindness for weakness because I'll tune you up with the best of them. Yeah.
SPEAKER_12I'll come, I'll come in.
SPEAKER_04I will.
SPEAKER_16So I want to know what happened in this tech booth with this pastor.
SPEAKER_12He he told he told me he said.
SPEAKER_16He apologized for the life that you live.
SPEAKER_12Yes. And he goes, he goes, You're not okay. Yeah, I know. Yeah. He goes, that's okay.
Triggered In The Tech Booth
SPEAKER_12What?
SPEAKER_16Yeah. It's okay not to be okay. Wow.
SPEAKER_12That's okay. Yeah. And I go, what? He goes, I know, I know I I go, are you gonna send me away? He goes, No. You can't be in here for this service. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, because this is very triggering. Yeah. I'd I'd been triggered. I'd triggered horribly and I lost it all over Ryan. That's what happened. I don't know. Well, was it about the tech booth that triggered you? Not the tech booth. So what had you got to do? Or was it the fact that you guys were back in that trip? No, no, we were they were playing a video. So there's rehearsals and they were playing a video that they were gonna play during service. And it depicted abuse. And Ryan for years would warn me, hey, this is not you're not gonna like this. So close your eyes, close your ears, whatever. But he was not in there to warn me. He hadn't seen the video. They were just playing it. He was across the room.
SPEAKER_11Oh, really?
SPEAKER_12So it was in that West Auditorium that we that would come to do CR. That used to be our the worship center. Yeah. Okay. And so he was on the other side. I'm in the back in the sound booth watching this video, watching my life play out, and I was losing it. And Ryan comes out of a closet on the front of the on the front of the still like in front of the stage. And I was like, How could you let this happen to me? And I'm screaming.
SPEAKER_02Oh wow. Screaming. Across the room.
SPEAKER_05He wasn't even in the booth with you. Oh wow.
SPEAKER_12Across the room. Now this pastor is in the is in the booth with me. He's like, hold up, you cannot.
SPEAKER_15Wow.
SPEAKER_12We're getting rid of there's people on the other side of that door. I don't care. I don't care. Um so by now Ryan has he's made it to the booth. He's like, I gotta save it, like, I gotta get my white idea. Um because again, he's a good man and he's like, I will brave that affair. Um Holy Spirit had me just tell everything. And he was like, You cannot be in here tonight. You cannot be in here for this service because it's not gonna be good, it's not safe for you. I can see that it's not safe for you, but you can't be in here. Okay, great. He goes, but you have to come back on Friday. Oh, it's Friday.
SPEAKER_16Great recovery.
SPEAKER_12I go, oh no, no, I go, oh no.
SPEAKER_16I'm not one of those people.
SPEAKER_12I'm not one of those people. I'm not I'm not I don't have addiction. He goes, okay. I go, I don't have a problem. He goes, Oh, a hundred percent you have a problem. That is very evident, yeah. And you you have to come.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_12And then he looks at Ryan he goes, and you will bring her. Amen. And Ryan's like, yeah, absolutely. Now he did not know that I didn't have a driver's license. He had no idea. He was just like, yeah. He's like, you are going to go with your wife and take her to this thing. And Ryan's like, yes, yes, yes, I will do whatever it takes. We were rock bottom. Yeah. We were going to live together miserably forever. Wow. That's where I was at. In my mind, I was like, I'm not getting a divorce because I'm not gonna let those people be right. I'm not gonna let them be right. But I am so busted. I'm so broken. There's nothing, there's nothing to keep about me. There's nothing that's gonna make this marriage happy. It's just not. I shouldn't be my children's mother. I shouldn't. Oh god.
SPEAKER_04How old were your children at this point?
SPEAKER_12Um my baby was two. Yeah. So our oldest was they're three years apart. So five.
SPEAKER_15They're just kids.
SPEAKER_12Four. No, she was four. So one and four. One and four at this point. Uh they were bitty. Yeah. My youngest doesn't have any.
SPEAKER_04Have they seen your mess play out at home?
SPEAKER_12Oh yes. Really? Yes. They were recipients of my mess. That's unfortunate. They were recipients of my mess. Um and I actually did have Lily has heard my oldest has heard my testimony. Yeah.
SPEAKER_16And she Oh, yeah, she was at the one day when you guys did your couples. Yeah.
SPEAKER_12Yeah. Well, she was not there for that. She had to leave. So she didn't hear it then, but she's heard it before. And she was like, I had to know it. She's like, thank you. Thank you for all the work you've done. Wow. Um Wow.
SPEAKER_04So yeah. So we had a lady come on from CR and brought her daughter. The daughter sat at the table with her. And daughter never heard it. Her full story. And so as the lady's talent, I'm looking at the daughter's reaction, you know what I mean? And the daughter's just crying. Yeah. You know what I mean? And we get done, and she's like, she's never heard it, you know what I mean? And they that's that just moment. Yeah. You know what I mean? It was so cool to see and to be a part of. And I'm glad God let us help facilitate that for them, you know what I mean? But it's when the kid hears your story and has an understanding of what you've been through. Yeah. It's yeah, it's pretty cool, man. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't make what you did okay, but it helps them understand.
SPEAKER_16It helps them understand where you've come from. Exactly.
SPEAKER_12So cut to so we started going to CR in 2014.
Celebrate Recovery And Real Healing Begins
SPEAKER_12We um we I went on my heart quest trip in 2015. I came home a brand new person, brand new person, um, apologized to the girl. I mean, like I sat down. Oh, the 2015. Yeah. The horse argument.
SPEAKER_16Yeah. Yeah, but what happened on that heart quest that really changed you?
SPEAKER_12Yeah. So we had um the um, what is the seat? It's the um the mercy seat? That's it. So we did a mercy seat ex um experience experience, and I laid it all out for a couple of gals who were praying over me. And um that was incredible. But really what what I gained from that was that the abuse done to me was not my fault. It was not my responsibility, but what was my responsibility was how I handled it, how I dealt with it. And I had not dealt with it appropriately for years. Um, so I came home and I just felt lighter. I um I had danced on that trip. I just felt so joyous that during worship one night I just started dancing. Did you dance for the Lord? I did. Because you quit dancing at 22. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yep. So I it was it was crazy.
SPEAKER_04How was that? Was that free? Very free.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, it was it was amazing.
SPEAKER_04There's one thing to dance for fun, there's another thing to dance for.
SPEAKER_12And that was the first time that I'd done it like for the Lord. Wow. Um, so yeah, so that was crazy. Um, I came, like I said, I came home. Um, I apologized to Ryan. I apologize to the girls. Um, again, my baby does not remember any of that, but I genuinely was like, oh, I'm gonna work towards we're not, we're gonna break, we're gonna break some chains. Um, I got into a step study after that trip. Um, learned how to do that.
SPEAKER_16This is after a year of being N CR and going to HeartQuest. Okay.
SPEAKER_12So I got my driver's license in August of 2016. Okay. Wow. Yeah. Um what changed for that? Well, a couple of things Ryan did. Um, so we had been paying someone to pick Lily up from kindergarten. She went half day kindergarten. She was getting ready to go to full day first grade, and he's like, You gotta you gotta go pick up our kid, you gotta get your driver's license so you can go pick up our daughter. And I was like, Oh shoot.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_12Um, if and again, I say this if you have never had to learn how to drive with your children in the backseat of your car who are mouthy like their mother, uh, that does need a meeting. There were many times where I would get done with the lesson and I'd be like, I need a meeting. And you call my sponsor right now. My sponsor and her husband taught me how to drive. Really? Yeah, and then Ryan took over. He he took over getting me, like he got me going to the places that like he had me going to church, he had me going to like the grocery store. You're driving to Target. I'm driving, yeah. I'm driving us. Yeah um, and it's it is terrifying to hear your baby child be like, that's not how dad does it. I'll pull this car right over and your dad can do it. And Ryan said, We're not doing that. We're not doing that.
SPEAKER_04Um I what were some fears that you had to get over in that process? You said you had a lot of anxiety towards it and fear towards it. So what were some fears?
SPEAKER_12Oh, the fear doesn't did not go on. I literally there were panic attack days where I had to take Lily to school and I could not start the car. I was panicking so bad. I'd have my children. I'd go, Lily, I need you to pray. I need you to pray right now because mommy cannot even turn it off.
SPEAKER_04Well, what about it was triggering though?
SPEAKER_12I think it was like, oh, I have to I have to drive a car. This is a large piece of machinery, and I'm an idiot. Like I still have voice playing. I don't use the brain God gave me. Oh wow. I'm never gonna amount to anything. So how can I drive a car? Um for real. Wow. For real.
SPEAKER_04So that voice was pretty predominant, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_12Oh, a hundred percent.
SPEAKER_04Really?
SPEAKER_12A hundred percent. No matter, and my mom and I have had this conversation. She's like, I I I was counter counteracting that. And I go, I know. It doesn't matter, it doesn't matter, and it's that negative for it, but for whatever reason, this is louder. Yeah it's louder.
SPEAKER_04I think I think for a young young girl, dad's voice is more prominent, and for a young boy, mom's voice is more prominent.
SPEAKER_13And not very well, maybe.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because I think a young girl is always daddy's girl, you know, look into dad, and and a young boy is always I assure you, I was never a daddy's girl. No, but the voice of dad. For sure, you know what I mean? And the voice of mom, you know what I mean? My dad said a lot of horrible shit, and it didn't really resonate, it didn't really stick. But my mom said anything hurtful, it was the most damning thing ever. Sure. You know what I mean? Because mom was mom. Yeah, you know what I mean? Dad was always a piece of shit and said bad things, but the minute precious mom said something, it was very traumatized. Yeah, you're like, oh my god, maybe I am this. Right, right. And so I don't know, I just think that's something that's interesting. Like he was talking about, you know what I mean, with the relationship. Yeah. For some reason, it's always mama's boy and daddy's girl. It's never mama's girl and daddy's boy. You know what I mean? It's there's this I think it's because for the first time a woman has someone she can truly love without the fear of being hurt because it's my son and he's not gonna do anything to hurt me. For sure. And the same with a dad, someone I can truly love without the expectation of anything, you know what I mean? And so I think that's pretty prevalent in those kind of relationships.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, and I still that was crazy. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Damn it.
SPEAKER_12I still don't, I still I don't drive the freeway. Really? I do not. I will take the long way. I will take the long way. It'll take me a couple of days to get the floor.
SPEAKER_04I don't take the freeway because I'm tired of replacing windshields. Well, there's that. I mean, I get it. I used to take the freeway and I have to replace my windshield twice a year. Oh no. And I'm like, I'll just take the streets. Get that glass replacement on your uh I have insurance and I get the $200 every time they replace my windshield, but I got tired of doing it.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, that's true.
SPEAKER_04I love the money and I love the fact that I didn't have to pay for it, but just retarded.
SPEAKER_12I know, I get no, I that that is yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. But yeah, um yeah, it's crazy.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_12So yep.
SPEAKER_04That's that's interesting.
SPEAKER_10Yep, yep, yep.
SPEAKER_04I've known a lot of people who've had that experience with cars and had we have a buddy, he was how was Mike? He was in his 30s, never drove a car, rode a bike everywhere. Bike everywhere, biking in bus. Yeah, he didn't want to, he just didn't care about it, you know what I mean? And finally one day he told me.
SPEAKER_12I was 39. Really? I was 39 years old.
SPEAKER_04God, I was 14, 15 the first time I drove a car. I was still in them.
SPEAKER_12Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I'd still my dad's truck, go for a ride. I love cars. I still love cars.
SPEAKER_12I mean, you work on cars.
SPEAKER_04That's irrelevant. I still love cars.
SPEAKER_16So you're you're it's 2016. Keep us on track. You are job. I'm just letting you go, bud. Letting you go, bud. Thanks, man. It's 2016, you're learning to drive, you've done your heart quest, you you're in CR, you're in a step study, so you're really working your recovery, and you start getting healed from past traumas.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yep.
SPEAKER_16Uh you said when I met you in the testimony, your anger and rage, you were overcoming that.
SPEAKER_12I realized that that rage was a manifestation of anxiety attacks. Oh, wow. That was my that was my panic attack. I don't even know. It was just how it came out of me. Okay. It's how it came out of me.
SPEAKER_04Um how would your rage manifest? Verbally? Oh, yeah. Really? I th I would screw it. Like you did, like you did in the sound booth kind of thing.
SPEAKER_12I would I would I would yell and scream. I would I threw a plate at Ryan.
SPEAKER_16Really?
SPEAKER_12Truly.
SPEAKER_16And this is you you haven't talked about drinking or drugs at all in this stuff.
SPEAKER_12No drinking, no drugs.
SPEAKER_16Wow.
SPEAKER_12No drinking, no drugs. Um, I would I can't say no drinking. I I will not call myself an alcoholic, but I have used alcohol to cope um with different different things. Um, certainly have had my fair share of blackout moments. I'm not proud of that. Um but I can't I would I would it would not be fair to say alcoholism definitely inappropriate use. And so like for me, when I do when I do a step study, I do it dry. I won't drink, and I don't drink that much anyways. Like, I'll have a beer, okay. Like, and when I say occasionally, like every several months. Every several months. Yeah. Um but when I'm in a step study, I do it completely.
SPEAKER_05Like I'm not sober. Absolutely dry. Amen.
SPEAKER_12So um yeah, I um because I don't if I have to feel something, I need to I need to be able to feel it so that I can work through it and figure out what what's going on.
SPEAKER_04You made a shirt that says you gotta feel it to heal it. That goes back to that process and the emotions, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. And I try to explain to people that somebody said something the other day, and I was like, God that for a reason, bud. You know what I mean? And it's just those things are there to to shape us, to build us, to shape our character. You know what I mean? Even if it is hurt, it's there for a reason, it has a purpose to shape and mold us, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_12Yeah, and I know now that God is not gonna waste it. No, of course, so if he's gonna make me feel it, we're he's gonna use it. Right, yeah in some way.
SPEAKER_04But you have to process it. For sure. For sure.
SPEAKER_12He's not gonna, he's not gonna use an unhealed mess. No, I always tell people we speak from our scars, not from our open wounds. We're not gonna be bleeding all over the stage. We're not doing that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_16That's good. That's really good. Uh she so let's get into the leadership part of how God grew you into Yeah, I was asked to be a leader um at that CR.
SPEAKER_12Uh originally they wanted me to help with mental health stuff. That was right when CR started doing the summit of hope. Yeah, the mental health um type of type of stuff. And um, in fact, it was at that the the summit of hope is where I was.
SPEAKER_16That was the green the green shirt, right?
SPEAKER_12No, no, no, no. That wasn't it wasn't a summit. It was like a sat it was it was saddleback was doing this. It was like a mental health thing. Okay, and they were they had brought in, they were going to start integrating some mental health stuff into CR. Okay. And so that's why I was there.
SPEAKER_16I but And this is before COVID. This is 20 well before COVID. Okay.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, yeah. And I oh I I was sitting in I was sitting in the worship center and I was like, oh my God, I think I have anxiety. And um at Compass or at Summit? No, we're we were at Saddleback's worship center and um for this mental health I think they called it like the hope conference or something about hope. And I turned to the pastor who had brought me and I go, Larry, I think I have anxiety. And he looks at me and he goes, Are you serious right now? And I go, Yeah, I I think I have an I think I struggle with anxiety. And he's like, Sarah, you did not get your driver's license until four months ago. 100% you have anxiety. And I was like, what? And he goes, I went back to the hotel room, I called Ryan, I go, you are never gonna guess what I found out. He's like, What? I go, I have anxiety.
SPEAKER_16He goes, same thing.
SPEAKER_12You're just now coming to know he's like, uh babe, I taught you how to drive a car. Yes. And I go, no, I had I go, yeah, how did everybody else know and not me? And he goes, how did you not know? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Wow.
SPEAKER_12I mean, he wasn't being like, literally could not figure out how I didn't know.
SPEAKER_04But when you've experienced a emotional thing for so long that never really had a name to it, for sure.
SPEAKER_12To you to that person, it's just how I feel until you realize there's a name to it or I'm too much, or just they're having a temper tantrum or a meltdown or whatever. And I was like, I am losing my mind, and I don't know why. And then to hear all of the things that I have been dealing with come out of somebody else's mouth and they're anxiety, and I was bingo. Oh my gosh, I think I have anxiety, and my entire table was like I'm glad you finally realized.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_12Okay, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah. So um, yeah, that was eye-opening. Break through eye-opening. Oh, for sure. Breakthrough. For sure.
SPEAKER_16And this is 2017?
SPEAKER_13Uh yeah, somewhere in there, somewhere in there.
SPEAKER_16Um, because they asked you to be a leader, they wanted to take you there so you could experience some. Yeah, something, yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_12Um, we decided to not go in the mental health, like, because they were like, we're gonna do a mental health open chair group. And I was like, I don't think there's any way, like, what is that like what does that leader do? And they're like, well, you have to make sure that everybody takes their medication or if they're seeing their and I was like, I'm not, yeah, I'm not gonna do that. No, I'm not, I'm not doing that at all. And they were like, Oh, okay. So uh we played around with some stuff and finally I'm gonna.
SPEAKER_04Are you serious about the medication thing?
SPEAKER_16Oh yeah, oh yeah, that's part of one of the oh yeah, they have a whole chart and thing to make sure that people are doing what they need to do to take care of themselves. Yeah, but how can you how do you do that?
SPEAKER_12But back then they didn't really have that, that wasn't all fleshed out yet. That was kind of like well, you'll just make sure that people are going to see their therapist if they make it. Is that a thing? Yeah, oh yeah. It is how do you sign a contract for the other thing? That's different. That's a one-on-one situation.
SPEAKER_04That's so the person who's there for mental health has to sign a contract, or the one who's leading?
SPEAKER_12Because how do you if they are if they are acting in a way that they are needing a little bit more like they're needing a little bit more help. Yeah, yeah. Then there's a contract that you can have them sign that you're because they're like, Well, I want you to help me. Cool.
SPEAKER_16Uh here's a lot of them can't see it.
SPEAKER_12Right.
SPEAKER_16A lot of them can't high.
SPEAKER_04But how do you how do you I mean, they could say they're taking their medication. What are you gonna you're gonna check their prescription to make sure there's one pill? I mean, uh, you know what I mean? How does that work? I don't get that.
SPEAKER_12Then it was kind of I think back then it was like that was kind of how they were looking at it, and now it's like, hey, I gotta take you out your word, but if I find out that you're lying, like it's there's tells, and you know when somebody's not taking their medication, they are. So like if I find out a little different, right? Yeah, yeah, we're gonna have an we're gonna have another conversation. All right, it's not gonna go well, all right, by the way. In case you're wondering.
SPEAKER_16Yeah, a lot of them can't express how they're feeling and things, so they have like graphs, red the red, green, yeah, to show where they're at every circle.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah. A lot of people can't express how they're feeling.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, oh a hundred percent. But yeah, so I was leading, um giving Did you want to lead or was it something that didn't.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_12I it wasn't something I set out to do. I just wanted to feel better.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, me too.
SPEAKER_12It's it's genuinely all I wanted to do. I just want to feel I want to be a better person. I don't I don't even care if I'm a better person. I just need to feel better.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_12Because I feel like crap and I hate I hate me.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_12And I'm tired of hating me.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I know how God has a sense of humor. Because if I go to a meeting, I'm going to a large group and I'm leaving. But if I'm a leader, then you have to stay. I have to show up on Mondays, I have to stay the whole time, and then I actually have to participate in open stuff.
SPEAKER_12Well, I loved it. So that first night that I went, I was surprised.
SPEAKER_04But when you first started, I'm like, Oh, you're funny, God. You know, I loved it.
SPEAKER_12Really? I love because I I had to grow into it. I this was a place where it was okay for me to not be okay. Yeah, and I didn't have to wear a mask, and I didn't have to pretend that everything was good. I it was okay to read. Oh, because I had grown up like you have to be okay.
SPEAKER_04You mean there's a place I gotta go talk about my crap? I'm like, you guys are nuts.
SPEAKER_12I didn't talk for a while. I cried, I cried a lot, I cried a lot, but I didn't I probably it was probably like maybe the third week that I shared that I started sharing.
SPEAKER_04I think the first time I sat in a small group, I'm like, pussy.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Talking about it, you know what I mean? Yeah, I get it now. Right? Right.
SPEAKER_12Well, for me, it was like, oh, I am seen in a good way.
SPEAKER_04Like I think the first time it triggered the first time something hit me that's good was when I saw a guy who had tattoos, who was big and burglar like me, and was very I was like, oh, wait a minute. This isn't just some right wimpy doo. This is a dude I can actually probably look like he's pretty respectable, you know what I mean? Yeah, and he's been um was like, oh, we can do this, all right.
SPEAKER_12Um I loved it, I really loved it. Like I was excited for Friday nights. I loved it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um you were seeing results right away. Yeah, I was I was seeing it pretty because I wanted it. I wanted it so bad. I was I knew that this was it. Like this was this was the life raft. I this was the rescue. I wasn't gonna get another chance. If I if I didn't do this, I wasn't gonna get another it was over. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_16So I have to I have to ask you because up to this point, it sounds like the worst parts of the trauma and your experience were behind you. Was there ever any like suicidal ideations? Was there ever any oh yeah, in high school and stuff?
SPEAKER_12Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_16I was like, world's better just done living through You said something earlier in like your teens. Oh, yeah, where I caught it and I was like, Yeah.
SPEAKER_12I was it I was done. Okay, I was done, I was tired. Yeah, that's what it was. I was tired. Tired.
SPEAKER_04Um I think that crosses every kid's mind at some point, though, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_12Of course.
SPEAKER_04I mean, some people go a little further with it, but it crosses a kid's mind. I've had the same conversations, and I never considered myself suicidal, but I've had those, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_12I think I think the world would be a better place.
SPEAKER_16I mean, clearly I'm a burden making everybody unnecessary.
SPEAKER_12I'm you know, or I'm not enough, or whatever. Yeah, whatever. Whatever it is, or I'm a girl. I mean, I said that in like in a job interview. They asked me what my weakness was, and I said, I'm a girl.
SPEAKER_04Really? And they were like, I don't that's not that's because of the voice on the city.
SPEAKER_12Oh yeah, for sure. For sure.
SPEAKER_04Wow.
SPEAKER_12Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So you still hear that voice?
SPEAKER_12Um It's quieter most days. Um God did a lot of work, and so I'll cut to um I got to volunteer in Compass's care ministry. I was apprenticed. Um, I went through their leadership pathway. Um was their care res the resident um care director. Yeah. Um and then for all the care ministry. Yeah, for the care for the care ministry at Compass. And then when I graduated from that leadership pathway, I was I had gotten hired at another church to be their care pastor. All right. Um it that was a dream job. I didn't I again I set out to feel better. Yeah and and God took it. Wow very Genesis 50. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04You know, very Genesis 50.
Forgiveness Without Reconnection
SPEAKER_04You ever had an opportunity to sit down with your dad?
SPEAKER_12And no, and I don't want to.
SPEAKER_04No, you have no desire for that.
SPEAKER_12I have forgiven him. All right. I forgave him for me.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_12I didn't forgive him for him.
SPEAKER_04Amen.
SPEAKER_12I did it for me.
SPEAKER_04I had to ask. Sure. Yeah.
SPEAKER_12And that and that makes sense. I don't I saw him at my sister's wedding. So my sister got married in 2018, I think.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_12And I saw him there, and he started taking pictures of my children, and I was like, absolutely not. And Ryan went and had a conversation with him, a very gentlemanly conversation. Um never mind. It was very well because he felt like Yeah, and he's like, Well, I'm just taking pictures of my grandkids, and Ryan's like, no.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, no. Okay. I get that because with me and my dad, I never I got out of prison in 2010. The conversation I had with my dad was, hey, the things you did really messed me up, but I want you to know I forgive you. But he was never prevalent in my life. Like I didn't go to visit him, he didn't come visit me. You know what I mean? And I didn't need that because there was a time where I didn't need that anymore. Right. You know what I mean? And that was okay with me. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_12Sure. Yeah. For me, my dad never took responsibility for anything. And he he always put it right back on you. Well, if you hadn't done this, then I wouldn't have had to do this, or if you and I did not want to hear what he had to say. I did not, it didn't matter to me what his feelings were. I didn't care about that. What I cared about was my own. Now, it took me a very long time to forgive him, and there are still days where something will pop up and I'll be like, oh, okay, all right. I forgive wrong, I forgive him. Yeah, I'll forgive him today. But for a while there, but in the first, I was like, okay, God, you're gonna have to forgive him because I can't today. Amen. Every day you have to forgive him because I can't. Yeah. I cannot. And then it got to where it was like, okay, I'll forgive them. I'll forgive him. But there were days that I was like several times a day where I was like, I forgive.
SPEAKER_07Amen.
SPEAKER_12I'll forgive them.
SPEAKER_04I think when I when your peace of mind, I'm glad you got to that point. For your own peace of mind, just so you know.
SPEAKER_10For sure.
SPEAKER_04I could care less about your dad. But for you, I'm glad that you got to that point. Well, it's because it's important for you. Right. Because forgiveness is for ourselves. Oh, a hundred percent. It's it's telling God, I don't want to carry this no more. If I have to forgive this person, then I forgive this person and I give that over to you. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_12That let like when we sat through that lesson, that forgiveness lesson, and I was like, Are you kidding me? I was like, absolutely not. And my sponsor's like, okay, well, let's have a conversation. Let's talk about this. And I was like, No.
SPEAKER_16Have you ever taught lessons?
SPEAKER_12Oh, yeah, I teach lessons all the time, or I did a long time.
SPEAKER_16I'm gonna bring you in. We're gonna have we're gonna have you teach I'm gonna have you teach on forgiveness next year. You'd be just the one to do it, sis. Keep yourself to yourself. So you transition from Compass, you get hired on at another church, you're the pastoral care I am their care pastor, yeah.
SPEAKER_12Care pastor.
SPEAKER_16Okay.
SPEAKER_12Yeah.
SPEAKER_16And this is the point where because over at Compass, he was the run leading the ministry. He was leading he was the one that I connected with to do the testimony over that.
SPEAKER_12Yes, he was on staff as their their CR director. Okay. And um, and he was the ministry leader. Yes.
SPEAKER_04Okay. Yeah. That was a pretty decent sized CR. Oh, yeah. He did good. And I love that you guys had the landing.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_04That was the first CR I've ever been to that had it.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_16And I love that they were in worship. Yeah. And then after worship, they go out and then we get down a bit.
SPEAKER_04It was the first time I went into one, and I'm like, there's kids in here. There's kids in here. Yeah. Then it was like, all right. They leave the leave, and I'm like, forget who it was. So like, what the hell's going on? They're like, oh, it's the landing. Yeah. I was like, oh wow, that is so cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_12He did that for our kid.
SPEAKER_04I think every church needs that. Yeah, buddy. I agree. And I think every pastor's kid should be in there. Oh, thousands of people.
SPEAKER_16Amen.
SPEAKER_12Catch our aliens. Amen. The worst. Amen. The worst. Yeah. No, it was it was incredible. It was an incredible time. And it was um, I won't well, I'll speak a little bit just because I'm his lady. It was amazing to stand beside him. It was my favorite thing. It's my favorite thing to do to just stand beside him and watch him work. Yeah. To and again, he can't, he can't, and he'll I'm gonna tell a little bit.
SPEAKER_16We're gonna get his story, don't worry. Support me. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_12He was my emotional support person. Yeah, yeah. Um that's a good husband. Yeah, yeah. Yes, yes. And then fell in love with the ministry for what it had done for me and for him. He has his own story. I'm not gonna go into that. But um he he had to go through his own healing journey and then to see what it had done for our family. He was like, he was like, Oh, yes. What do we say?
SPEAKER_16It works if we work it. That's right.
SPEAKER_04It is one of the best ministries a church can have. Totally. If you want a healthy church, CR has to be some, you know what I mean? I agree. And I think leadership should be involved in CR. Definitely. I think if someone's bringing it up. If someone's bringing you in uh as a pastoral position, you should have to go through CR and a step study and know what it's about. I agree. That's right. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_12It's it is life-changing. It is life-changing.
SPEAKER_04Even if you think you've had a good life and you don't really have nothing, you'll get in one of those meetings, you'll you'll be like, oh crap, I'd deal with that.
SPEAKER_12And then those are gonna be crying.
SPEAKER_04I mean, yeah.
SPEAKER_16Yeah, uh, I think it's like you said, it's amazing what happens when you hear your story come out of someone else's mouth.
SPEAKER_04It's like, well, I told you before we started, I think that's what church should look like. Is everybody being honest about their uh their messes, you know what I mean? Yeah, putting on the mask, you're coming in and oh man. I'm good, I'm out of the paper as I just ripped my wife a new one in the car. You know what I mean? Yeah, or my wife ripped me a new one.
SPEAKER_12Right. I mean, okay. I was listen, let's be honest. I was the mean one. Okay. I didn't want to say no. I said I own it. I own it. I was the mean one. You're a champion. I know. I know. We laugh when we when we had to go in and and have the girls, and so they're like, um, do you feel safe at home? And I'm like, yeah, I feel fine. Do you want to ask him if he feels safe at home? And I don't know. Yeah, it would yeah.
SPEAKER_04I love that on a Monday night you can come into CR and you can have stuff, you can love Jesus and actually admit that you have stuff. That's right, Bertie. And nobody's looking at you like, oh, oh my God.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_04You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_16And it's so Sarah, can you do me a favor, Sarah, and go through, give me like five to ten things that are not drugs and alcohol that people who may be watching or listening um that can come to celebrate recovery for.
SPEAKER_13Oh gosh.
SPEAKER_04Um I got a shirt with like 32 of them on there.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_16That's I went to Domingo's CR and he had like these cards and it had all the different struggles on it. I'm like, Dad, I want this on a shirt. I love it. He literally picked out everything and put it all on a shirt board. Highlight it. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_12Um, I would say rage, anger, um, uh, what hell like anxiety, any any um you can have eating disorders, food addictions, yeah, um, codependency. Yeah. Um, and for those who do not know what codependency is, that's like people pleasing, it's kind of enabling, it's um making excuses for someone else's actions. Um, you can come in for narcissism, you can come in for any of the abuses, um workaholics, workaholic, yeah, gambling, gambling, gambling, pornography, absolutely mental health. Any any it when we say it is for everyone and anything, that's what we mean. You can come in for church hurt.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, come on. Um, if it separates you from the father, you need to be in CR. Yep. And I don't care who you are, that's everybody. Everybody has something that keeps us from reading, praying something any given day.
SPEAKER_13I agree.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_13Anything, anything, anything.
SPEAKER_04Thanks, sis. And if you're not, you're still in denial and should probably come and more. Step one percent. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_12You think you don't have a problem?
SPEAKER_13You probably do. You have about eight problems.
SPEAKER_16You just maybe can't see it.
SPEAKER_13But we can, and we'll point them out for you.
SPEAKER_16But we'll love you through them.
SPEAKER_04I think it was cool after our first initial step study, right? We went to man camp. And was that our first one? It was. Wow, that was the one you quit, Sarah. That was that was that was the one where they gave us our our coins for completing the step study in front of all the men. Oh, yeah. And this was the first time that like CR had really been like announced to the church in the life. I mean, yeah, and wow. There was God, it had to be eight of us, eight men that completed it, right? Yeah, it was a good thing. Whatever. And my thing was just exactly what you said. Most of you probably think this has to do with drugs and alcohol. Let's break that stigma. Right. This is not about drugs and alcohol, this is about anything that separates us from the love of the Father. And that's every one of you men in here, quit acting like you, you know what I mean? Right. And but it still has that stigma.
SPEAKER_10For sure.
SPEAKER_04And it literally pisses me off. I know.
SPEAKER_16If it if it was celebrate if it was celebrate healing, oh my god, it would be so much easier. I know. I know. Lots of people will be like, somebody goes celebrate recovery, they're like, I'm not one of those people.
SPEAKER_12Oh yeah. Oh, you're one of those people. Yeah, I am. Yeah, I am. And you are too.
SPEAKER_16You just don't want to it's fine. Come and find your place. I got you. You belong here. I got you. Yeah. Amen. Yep. So what um you're you're over at the care's, you're the care pastor at the end of the
Job Loss Grief And Staying Functional
SPEAKER_16church. Are you still there?
SPEAKER_12I'm not. I got let go. I got let go. Um. No, I'm just checking.
SPEAKER_05Just checking.
SPEAKER_12They did a they did a staffing um restructuring. Really? And so they um they decided to go in a different direction. And so um that's hard. It was heartbreaking, and I did kind of find myself in a very large bat of depression. Um, I was I didn't realize I because I I had isolated, but only because I was trying to um protect people not from me, but like I knew how negative I was and I didn't want to be negative.
SPEAKER_16Yeah. As the care pastor?
SPEAKER_12Well, no, like just negative. No, no, no, no, no, no. Because I was no longer there. Like by the time like um I was done in November, okay. Um, and I was just deeply wounded. Deeply, deeply wounded. You didn't want to vomit on somebody, and I didn't, and I really didn't. And it's the holidays, and you don't want to be that guy in front of a bunch of people. But I I was like, I'm not isolating because I'm still getting out. I I had to go do stuff for my mom. Um, she was newly diagnosed with cancer at that time, and so I was kind of going and helping her and doing stuff with the girls and trying to, you know, we we're getting ready for the Christmas dance show, and so I'm trying to be, you know, happy, but I'm a mess. Um, and I didn't realize how bad a shape I was.
SPEAKER_04I think you were staying busy to not deal with the mess you were in, or 100%. I know sometimes we can keep busy body to not process. For sure.
SPEAKER_12And the minute I stopped, it was like, oh, I'm done. Like Ryan said there were days where I would go and take care of something for my mom, come home and go back to bed. Really? I was nervous.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_12Because I I couldn't find another job. I couldn't find another pastoral job.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_12And that made me sad. It was like, how could you give this to me? How could you and I was angry at God. Yeah. There was a real anger. I was mad. Yeah. I was mad at him. How could you give this to me? How could you let me have this? This dream I didn't even know I I had and take it away.
SPEAKER_04How long from Leave Encompass to the firing was it?
SPEAKER_12It was two years. Also, there was some time there. Yeah, I was I was there for for nearly two years. Yeah.
SPEAKER_16Hey, you started another CR and and it was it was good. Well, with a group, it wasn't just me, but we had a good group. It takes a team.
SPEAKER_12Sure does. Yes, and they were brilliant. Brilliant. And it's still going. And they're doing great.
SPEAKER_13Amen.
SPEAKER_12Um but I was heartbroken. I was heartbroken. And so I had to work through some stuff. I really, really, really I was, I uh I couldn't believe that God had not not that I needed, and I've never been like a titles or a platform or whatever, but you gave this to me and now you're taking it away, and I don't know what to do with myself. I've I have nowhere to go. I don't know what to do with this. Um and so uh and I had to work. I had to go back to work. I mean, Ryan does make a good living, but I like to shop at Target, so that's a problem. Right. Somebody's gotta pay that bill. Right. Um, and also Amazon is I was just gonna say at some range.
SPEAKER_16So love me some Amazon.
SPEAKER_12Um just airing all the dirty secrets right now.
SPEAKER_02He gave you a look, he gave me a look. This is the real this is the real thing.
SPEAKER_16Well, so do you have a home CR?
SPEAKER_12We are kind of Do you have a home church? We have a home church. Okay. We do have a home church. We um NR and because if not, you guys are I love that. Thank you so much. Yeah, we do have a home church. Um we're con we're kind of at the moment just kind of free agents, CR free agents. We've we've been kind of making the rounds to the different CRs anyways. Okay. Um, but I think we will be Monday nights, 6 30. Well, and we'll come and we'll come, we'll come. Um but one life, the church we're at, one life has a CR on Monday night. They do, yeah. So and and they're going very well. You know, good. So that they're awesome, and I you know, we love the people there.
SPEAKER_04So um I would never ask you to leave another church or another CR, just so you know. I know. I would never ask you to go to the channel.
SPEAKER_12I appreciate that though. But I'll come visit you. I'll come, I'll come give a lesson every once in a while.
SPEAKER_04Come on, man.
SPEAKER_12I'm okay with it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Don't ask me to come do a lesson because you'll get panics and anxiety.
SPEAKER_12I'm gonna panic and anxiety, but I can do a lesson much better than that.
SPEAKER_04You do your testimony too. For some reason, I I do I get anxiety. I'm not an anxious person at all. But when it comes to doing lessons, I get this just and then you sweat. Sometimes it's horrible, but it's like, but every time I'm done, people are like, oh, that's so great. And I'm like, yeah, if you knew what I went through just now, sure.
SPEAKER_14Right.
SPEAKER_12People think I'm hilarious when I'm having a panic attack now. Now my panic attacks, I like cry, and then I make jokes to literally claw my way out. And they're like, You're hilarious. When are you gonna be a comedian? And I'm like, I'm dying.
SPEAKER_04I've never had a panic attack ever in my life, except for one time, and I was hosting the CR that night, and for some reason there was a lot of people there that night. And I don't do good in front of people, right? And I get up on stage and I'm sweating, and I can't attack. I can hear my voice like sounding weird, and I know I'm freaking out, and I'm trying not to freak out, but I'm freaking out. And I look at one of the ladies from the CR and she's mouthing to me, are you okay? And I'm like, no, I'm not. You know what I mean? The minute I got off the stage and went to the back, it just everything went back to normal. And I was like, what the hell was that? I'm like, I literally think I just had a panic attack, and I'm not an anxious or that kind of person. I'm usually pretty upset and confident, you know what I mean? I'm like, I think I I went home and told my daughter who deals with panic attacks. I'm like, I think I just had a panic attack. She's like, what do you mean? So we're having this conversation. I'm like, I can relate with you now. Right. You know what I mean? I know what that feels like. Like, it's horrible.
SPEAKER_10It's the worst.
SPEAKER_04It was.
SPEAKER_10Oh, it's terrible.
SPEAKER_04I've never experienced anything like that in my life. And just the feeling of being unable to control it was the worst.
SPEAKER_12Every time I give my testimony, my watch is telling me that I'm having a heart attack. Really? We'd love for you to just chill out. And I'm like, Me too. Thank you, me too.
SPEAKER_04He keeps trying to get me to do my testimony, and I'm like, I could not spend 20 minutes in front of somebody talking about my junk.
SPEAKER_12You just read. Just read it.
SPEAKER_04It's just the being in front of people.
SPEAKER_12I know.
SPEAKER_04I was a kid in school when we had to do oral reports. I was like this with my paper, and the teacher's telling you, pull your paper down, we want to see your face.
SPEAKER_08And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04You know what I mean? Yeah. But yeah, I need to because it has to be.
SPEAKER_10Somebody needs to hear your story.
SPEAKER_04They do, and I know that.
SPEAKER_10And it's Eddie, that's step 12.
SPEAKER_04I know.
SPEAKER_10Why are you hiding your light under a bushel?
SPEAKER_04I get up and teach lessons. Isn't that enough? No, I know I I know it's something I need to do. I really do. I get that. And the problem I'm having is when I sit down to write it and I get to the childhood sexual stuff, I hit this wall.
SPEAKER_06Oh.
SPEAKER_04And I want to walk away from the screen and just go do something different. You know what I mean? But I also know that someone needs to hear those things. And it's just I have to push through the I don't want to relive this again moments. Oh, I get that. You know what I mean? I totally get that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_12I cry every single time I talk about how horrible I was to my kids. Yeah. My less than optimal parenting. I hate it.
SPEAKER_04That is I had to I had to quit going with him to listen to his testimonies because it's he likes to point me out. Raise your hand, Dad, and I'm thinking, yeah, I'm the guy who smoked dope with his kid. Yeah, that's me. I'm that piece of shit. You know what I mean? Yeah. And it's like I had to stop going because I didn't like the shame and guilt that I felt every time I had to go listen to it. You know what I mean? So it's it's hard to hear those things, even though I'm healed from them. The devil still wants to remind you of them. Try to pour that on, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_12But you know when he's when he's talking about it, he's also talking about your healing too.
SPEAKER_04With the enemy's talking in my head about, yeah, you're gonna be. Oh, with my testimony? That piece of crap that smoked dope with his kid in here. F off.
SPEAKER_12Oh I tried that's the only time I let my kids cuss. I said, you can only say that. Yeah. Even when you're speaking to the enemy, it's F off.
SPEAKER_04But it is something I need to write and get done. And you got a story that could help some people to have. And if I gotta go through 20 minutes of anxiety and panic attacks to maybe have someone get a glimpse of hope, then I'm good with that, man. That's a small price to pay. Come on. It is. I just have to write it.
SPEAKER_10Peer pressure.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I'm good. It don't bother me at all. But I just know it's something I have to do. You gotta do it. And yeah.
unknownGood deal.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, man. Where are you at right now? What do you what's so what's going on right now?
SPEAKER_12So um I so this is funny. I like I said, I needed to go back to work. Couldn't get, I could not find a job. I couldn't find another healthcare job. I couldn't find I couldn't find to work. Really? Um, so I've joked about how like when when I retire and I'm old and bitter, I'm gonna be um, I'm gonna work at Ace Hardware. Nice. Um, because I love being a hardware store. I love Ace Hardware. And I love I love all hardware stores, but Ace is pretty great. Yeah, it is. Um, cool station. Um anyway, so I I got a jump.
Ace Hardware As A New Mission Field
SPEAKER_04They gotta call Milwaukee section.
SPEAKER_12Yes, they do. Yes, sir. Um yeah, so Ryan's like, why don't you apply at Ace? And I was like, come again. And he goes, You've been wanting, just jump the shark. You've been wanting to do that when you retire, just let's go. And I was like, Okay, so I applied, I filled out, so they do things very old school, paper. Yeah. I haven't filled it out. I was like, oh, the last time I filled out a paper application was in the 90s. Um so I did that and turned so I went and turned it in. The day I turned in my application, I looked like a homeless person. I don't think I showered in like three days. I had like my hair was growing out and it was in some sort of weird ponytail situation that I shouldn't. I think I might have had a baseball cap on, maybe. Umboy. Yeah, like I I was like, oh, this is so the manager was like, Hey, do you got a couple minutes to talk talk about this? And I was like, I mean, yeah, she goes, typically I like to be in my office. And I go, typically I like to be showered. And that's great, Sarah. Oh, you did. That's great. Yes, I did.
SPEAKER_16Presentable. I thought I was just coming in and turning an app and go.
SPEAKER_12I like to be showered and maybe have deodorant on. And she's like, Oh, you're great. And I go, I'm not, but okay. So she asked me if I knew what a quarter was, and I was like, what now? And she goes, like, do you know what a quarter is? And I go, I'm gonna need some context. And she goes, like, the unit of money. And I go, yes, would you like me to break it down for you? I can give you two dimes and a nickel. I can you know, like, how are we doing this? And she goes, Oh, you're great. And I go, seriously, and she goes, We had a cashier that did not know what a dime was, that a dime was the same as ten cents. And I was like, come again. Yeah, and they said, Yeah.
SPEAKER_16And I go, Yeah, wow, a generation living in that's crazy.
SPEAKER_12So I said, Well, I I I can I can break break your money down for you if you'd like me to. I'm not super mathy, but I can do that. And then she was like, Okay, great. Uh I have an interview with somebody else tomorrow, but I really like you, but this is what I have to offer you. Like, so the time frame the times did not coincide with what I wanted, but so I was like, Well, I need to work. So I went home, I talked to Ryan, I called her back, and I was like, Yeah, I can I can make this work. And she's like, fantastic, I'm gonna hire you. Yeah, I was like, what? So we talked a little bit about my stuff, how I got to ACE. Um it has been incredible. Now I chose to apply for that job, and I know that I chose to apply for that job, but I also was pissed that I was at ace hardware and not where I had been. Yeah, okay. That's real. So I was still working through that anger, and I was like, why do you have me at ace? And literally I uh I hear it. Yeah. Well, you applied. You applied for the job. Yeah, that's why you're at ace. Yeah, I love God's relationship with you. I do not care for that. I do not care for that at all. And he's like, okay, well, he's just real and honest with you. Well, one of us applied for the job, it was you. Yes, it was you. Um, but he has given me so many opportunities to talk about God, to talk about church, to talk about CR. Um, I have been able to have like some very fascinating conversations with people. Um, the kid who hired me was terrified because he heard I was religious. I was like, I'm not religious, I'm relational. And he's like, What? And I go, okay, well, let's break break it down. Um, but fantastic, fantastic. What it has done is freed me up to go back to school.
SPEAKER_07So I dropped out of college. Yeah.
SPEAKER_12I dropped out of college in 1996, so 30 years ago. Um, I have talked about dropping out of college and being a good for nothing um for 10 years.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_12And God said, I have Have freed you up to go to school. Come on. You gotta go to college. Now, again, I have to go to Mr. Pletcher and say, I know I've taken a real nosedive on the finances, but I'd also like to incur a tremendous amount of debt. How do you feel about that? And he was like, What now? Um, really. I need to think about that a minute. And he's very, very calm. He's like, okay, do what now? And I go, I I need to go back to college. And he goes, uh-huh. And I go, I know. He goes, well, let's let's talk about it. And I go, I am talking about it. I'm telling you I have to go back to college. It was why it was wild. I have never, it's very few times have I felt that strongly about something where I was like, I have to do like I have to do this.
GCU And A New Calling In Behavioral Health
SPEAKER_12So I'm at GCU. I'm online. Nice. I'm going for behavioral health when I'm done. And I and this is my the last week of my first class. So I'm almost done with my very first class.
SPEAKER_13Nice.
SPEAKER_12I have loved it. I have loved it. Nice. Um I don't, I do not know why I waited so long.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_12Except that I had to get here. I had to be ready for it.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_12So you had to heal some first. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so it's crazy. All my friends are like, you're doing what now? And I'm like, I know. Yeah. It's insane.
SPEAKER_16So you're working at ACE and you're going to GCU for behavioral health. I love that.
SPEAKER_04Fantastic.
SPEAKER_16I love that.
SPEAKER_12That's what I'm doing.
SPEAKER_16Yeah. What are you hoping for in the future? What do you what do you believe in God for in the future? What are some things that He's deposited in you that you're hoping for? Go big. Yeah, we got a big God. We sure do.
SPEAKER_04You know, I I had a pastor tell me one time, sis, he had this big old piece of property. And he had this little small church. And we're walking this big old property, and he stops and looks back at the building and says, Eddie, the only mistake I made is that was all I was believing God for.
SPEAKER_10Okay.
SPEAKER_04But yet he had this huge property. So in that moment, God made it very clear to me, I'll give you what you believe me for. Small or big.
SPEAKER_12I loved pastoral care. That saved me. Pastoral care saved me. And I love, I loved being able to give that. I know. I know. I loved being able to give that to people. Um but one of the things that I really loved doing was counseling with people. And so I am preparing to be a counselor. But if God puts me back in a church and says pastoral care, I'll do it.
SPEAKER_04Why not both?
SPEAKER_12Well, counseling is a tricky thing to do in a church because you have to maintain.
SPEAKER_04There's not another says you can't be a pastor and have an office, but you do get a child. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. It's outside of the church. Well, that's true. No, no, no. You're right.
SPEAKER_12I don't know.
SPEAKER_04I'll sell yourself short, man.
SPEAKER_12Okay. Well, I don't know.
SPEAKER_04You're a bright, intelligent woman. You can sell yourself short, man.
SPEAKER_12You're very kind.
SPEAKER_15Thank you.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_12Thank you. Yeah.
SPEAKER_15You just keep that, yes.
SPEAKER_12I I think that's what it is. I'm just staying open right now. I'm not um I want to help people. I know that I want to help people. I don't know what that looks like. Um, again, like I said, I just wanted to feel I just wanted to feel better. Selfishly, I just wanted to feel better. And what I've seen that do for my family is insanity. Yeah. It's insane.
SPEAKER_15Yeah. Praise God.
SPEAKER_12But so I I'm I'm not trying to put God in a box, but I also don't know how to believe that big for myself. So I just will say yes to whatever God says. I mean, I said yes to college. He's like, hey, can you just stop bitching about it in your testimony every time you give it? Can you just go back to school? Just go do it. And I was like, I don't know, okay.
SPEAKER_16Just keep saying yes. Yeah. Sarah, just keep saying yes. Yeah. God will keep opening doors.
SPEAKER_12Oh, for sure. I mean, he's done immeasurably more than I ever anticipated.
SPEAKER_04I can't remember if it was somebody that prophesied over Roddy or somebody that prophesied over me. But it was this and I'll take something that somebody prophesies over somebody else, and I'll take it for myself because that's what we're supposed to do. Yeah. But it was this is was the book of prophecy was that they saw either Hammer Me in heaven before the mercy seat. And there was a scroll with our name on it. And as they unrolled the scroll, it was yes, yes, yes, yes. It was just a scroll full of yeses. And from that moment on it was whatever you want, God.
SPEAKER_15Yes, God.
SPEAKER_04He asked me to get up there and teach a lesson while I have a panic attack. Cool, I'm in. You know what I mean? Uh if you want me to go do this, I'm in. Whatever. You have my yes now. You know what I mean? And that's all he's looking for.
SPEAKER_12Oh, I agree. I mean, I like to wrestle with him a little bit. Of course, it's fun.
SPEAKER_04Hip check. Yeah.
SPEAKER_12Excuse me, I think I know myself better than that.
SPEAKER_04You like walking with a limp.
SPEAKER_02Walking with a limp.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_16If I hit a light pole, that's why I walk with a limp.
SPEAKER_04I'm I'm God created me in a way that I have to understand. And it took me the longest time to get to a point where I don't have to understand God. What what you have or where we're going. Right. You have my yes. I would like to understand because that's the way you think about it. I mean, I'm going to question.
SPEAKER_09I will question.
SPEAKER_12Uh, I'm going to be like, I don't understand. And um, I have questions, and he'll be like, Great, and I will answer them as we go along in my own time.
SPEAKER_04You are just gonna have to ask, I'll ask, are you sure this is the direction that I think this way is a little better? And he's like, just trying to sir. Have you been down here in the wild? No, okay. I mean, yeah. What else do you believe in God for, man? It was something else. Um family-wise, marriage-wise.
SPEAKER_12I mean, my marriage is stupid. Yeah, stupid awesome. You're blessed. I mean, I am. I mean, like I said, I married up and poor Ryan.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_12I feel bad for him every day. I love your faces. I feel bad for that man every day of my life. Um, and yet I still am like, hey, still here.
SPEAKER_04Every time I see him, he seems pretty joyful. Right. I know. He must be doing something right.
SPEAKER_12I mean I'm nice. I'm nice every once in a while. I give him a high five. You get it. I mean, you know, I ah, like I'm w I'm watching my kids now. They have been moved to church, to church, to church now. And uh every time we've moved it was m it was my fault. It was m because of me. And so this but I watched them bounce back faster this time. They are I mean they're a church camp with a new church. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Loving it.
SPEAKER_12I mean, they may not be loving it. I don't know. They just got there and then they had to turn their phones over. I hope so. Um my prayer is that my kids have their own junk that they have to deal with, that they don't have to take to carry my stuff in. And I have watched them heal from a lot of my, again, less than optimal parenting. I've seen so many good things for them, but I that's my prayer is that they just grow as they grow, they grow closer to God.
SPEAKER_04Amen.
SPEAKER_12And they and and they you know, yeah do whatever he wants them to do. That's my prayer.
SPEAKER_02Amen.
SPEAKER_12That's it. And then, you know, prayer for him because he lives with me.
SPEAKER_16He got he got a lot on his plate. His plate is he's doing a lot, man.
SPEAKER_12He's like at a buffet, he's like at a JB's buffet. You get it, you know.
SPEAKER_04A little bit of this, a little bit of that. A little shake, a little sold, yeah. This was awesome, man.
SPEAKER_12Oh you really are. Oh my lord.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, see, it goes quick. Four hours.
SPEAKER_12That is crazy.
SPEAKER_04Your husband only fell asleep like three times. Yeah, he's over there, huh? Well, he's used to me talking. He's like, uh, I'll wake up some point. Thank you for the opportunity, man. Thanks for having me. I've I've seen I've seen you guys a couple times at CRs and I don't really know you guys like Rowdy does, but it was so awesome to get to know you, man. You're your husband is a blessed man, not all the things that people say about you. You know what I mean? You may be, I don't know, but from what I can tell, you're you're a pretty decent person, man.
SPEAKER_12You're very kind. Thank you. Thanks for having me, guys.
SPEAKER_04You got anything?
SPEAKER_03You want me to pray?
SPEAKER_16I'm just thankful for the pleasures. Yeah, yeah. I love I love doing life with that guy over there, man. He always answers on my decks. I'm like, is he ever gonna just give up on me? Nope. He doesn't.
SPEAKER_04He doesn't that's good because I ain't answering yours.
SPEAKER_16He does. Okay, I'm getting ready to leave, bud. I love it. I'm gonna watch you to leave. I'm going to the Philippines, man.
SPEAKER_10I heard, I heard. Rowdy, come on.
SPEAKER_04How do I get him to understand that it's not that I want him to leave? It's that he needs to leave for himself so that he can grow and God and the things that God has for him. It's not that I want him to leave.
SPEAKER_06No.
SPEAKER_04You know what I mean? But I want him to grow and and mature in his walk with God. And if it takes him leaving, then get the hell out. But also come back every once in a while. I mean, my wife is not gonna let him stay gone forever. You know what I mean? And he already knows that he can come back at any moment. That's right.
SPEAKER_16But I also want him to grow. Go try to go check out. There's a lot. There's a lot in it. I was not expecting he says it all the time. Sometimes in order to grow, you have to go.
SPEAKER_12Well, I mean, if you're gonna say that for other people, Rowdy.
SPEAKER_04Right. Time to go. Yeah. And he knows God has so much for him. And he's not gonna get there being stuck at mom and dad.
SPEAKER_16So look, if uh what what I feel like this really is, is sometimes I'm not I'm not saying that the blessing has stopped here.
Rowdy’s Philippines Call And Closing
SPEAKER_16I'm not saying that at all. But sometimes in life, you go through these seasons and you'll be at these places. And sometimes we want to hold on to these places or these seasons because they were good for us at a time. But if you and we're comfortable, but if you stay in these seasons or these places for longer than you're supposed to, it doesn't end well. It it gets bad. And this is literally something where God's saying, Okay, son, it's time for you to get out of your comfort zone, it's time for you to leave mom and dad's, it's time for you to leave America and go to the Philippines and live there and do this teen challenge Philippines thing and start working with these men and run this program and outreach the community and really bring Jesus. And I feel like it's the next promised land.
SPEAKER_12I think that's phenomenal.
SPEAKER_16Yeah.
SPEAKER_12When Ryan did share that with me, and I was like, get at it, Rowdy.
SPEAKER_16Yeah, it's crazy.
SPEAKER_12You went so you went on a mission trip, like hand out backpacks to kids for funsies, yeah. And God was like, by the way.
SPEAKER_16I have this for you.
SPEAKER_12I would like you to come back.
SPEAKER_04But it started when he was 15. He went on his first mission trip when he was 15. And he even says in his story, he was marked by God that day to be a mission.
SPEAKER_12Would you think it was just gonna be to Mexico?
SPEAKER_16If I'm being completely honest with you, friend, I have known that God's called me to missions from a long time ago. I was in Teen Challenge in 2014, and um Michael made comfortable. Michael Maiden, he prophesied that I'd be a prophet to the nations.
SPEAKER_11Okay.
SPEAKER_16And I believe that. Whenever there's something, even Jesus wasn't accepted in his hometown. Correct. There's just people that I'm doing life with that don't receive me for the office that God has put me in as a prophet. Right. And I have to go to these nations and these other places where people don't know me, they don't have a relationship with me. God can move through me for them in ways that here there's just familiarity breeds contempt. Right, right, right.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, I get that.
SPEAKER_04The reality is, is I know this man's a prophet. But him being my son and we doing life some us together, that sometimes when he when he tries to prophesy to me and myself, it's like you're just my son. You're my son, of course you want that for me. Right. You know what I mean? Right. So when he's talking about a prophet's not received in his hometown, he's talking about that familiarity that you know me, of course you would say something like that.
SPEAKER_05Right, right, right.
SPEAKER_04You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_04But I've seen him tell a complete stranger something, and I've seen their chin hit their chest and be like, How do you know that about me? And I'm over there going, Yeah, God, you know what I mean? Right.
SPEAKER_12And so I've seen it so it works for other people, but it doesn't work for you because of the closeness.
SPEAKER_04You're my son, we do life together, we have intimate conversations, you know a lot about me that other people don't. So when you say something, it's of course you would say that you're my son, you want that for me. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_16So it's hard to part of it, part of it too, is the actual gift of prophecy. Yeah, strangers receive when God shows up a lot easier than people that know you. Yeah, and so part of it is just the call in the office of it. And it's just time. It's it's it's a trip. It's time. It's a trip.
SPEAKER_12I mean, we'll miss you.
SPEAKER_16I'm in the need prayer partners. I've left a trail of people that are doing it now. It's great, bro.
SPEAKER_02When he's in Queen Creek, there's people that are yelling at it because there's people at other CR is going, Jesus!
SPEAKER_04I'm like, this is a good thing. I will tell you, I will tell you. We had a guy come in that I never met before and know that he's a Jesus guy and he's up on stage telling us, he's talking about this. Oh, they're give me the church.
SPEAKER_12And I'm like, who the hell are you? And how do you know that? You don't get to use that. Uh-uh. No, I know. The first time I'm the first time I encountered Rowdy, yeah, he was doing a Jericho march around the West Auditorium at Compass. And I was like, if he gets to six, somebody better jump that little jump him, shut that down. I'm not having this building come down on us while we're in here. I am not having it. I am not having it. Ryan's like, you need to calm down, and I go, look at me. I am calm. And he's like, you are not calm at all. I go, if he gets around, if he goes around again, I'm coming for him. I'm coming for him. And he's like, I believe you would chase him. I go, I will tackle him. I will jump him like a spider monkey, and I will shut that march down so fast.
SPEAKER_16I pace, I pace, be I pace and pray before I get up and speak or share. Yep.
SPEAKER_12Well, it was during a worship set, and I was like, what is happening? Worship brings something out of it. Yeah, and Ryan's like, he's he's just doing, he's just doing his thing. And I go, that looks like a Jericho march. If ever I saw one, that looks like a Jericho march, and he's going around again. It's like doing laps. And I was like, I will shut that down so fast. I love you, sir. I'll just shut it down.
SPEAKER_16Oh man.
SPEAKER_12That is old testament stuff.
SPEAKER_16We're living in the New Testament now.
SPEAKER_12Hold a new covenant right now, Mr. Right now.
SPEAKER_16I love you.
SPEAKER_12You've got to relax.
SPEAKER_16So I I hadn't I hadn't shared this with everybody. I did not plan on sharing this. Um, we're still in the prayer month. Pastor kind of said the next 30 or 60 days, we're just gonna pray for this thing. And all the signs are green right now. Everything is saying go. Um, I'm currently developing.