Stepmum Space

Episode 30: “I Wanted to Read All the Messages From My Partner’s Ex”

• Katie Harrison • Season 4 • Episode 6

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For stepmum support, tools, workshops and coaching, visit: https://stepmumspace.com

If you’ve ever felt the urge to check your partner’s messages with his ex — not out of mistrust, but out of fear, insecurity or emotional overload — this episode will make you feel deeply understood. Elizabeth* speaks with honesty about what high-conflict co-parenting does to your nervous system, your relationship, and your sense of safety.

In this episode, Katie talks to Elizabeth, who entered her relationship just as her partner’s ex was at her most high conflict. From trying to block the bond between Elizabeth and her stepson, to reporting Elizabeth as a safeguarding risk, the early years were marked by constant drama, accusations and emotional chaos.

Despite all of this, Elizabeth and her stepson formed an incredibly strong, loving connection.

Eventually Elizabeth’s husband set firm boundaries — and the conflict with the ex stopped.
 But something unexpected happened:

When things became calm and amicable… Elizabeth didn’t feel relief. She felt triggered.

She found herself wanting to read their messages, craving reassurance, and feeling a deep discomfort she didn’t anticipate. This episode explores why this happens, and why stepmums often struggle more after the chaos ends than during it.

It’s an insightful, compassionate, and very relatable conversation with a woman who speaks openly and courageously.

Not her real name.

In This Episode We Explore:

  • Why high-conflict behaviour from an ex can create long-term emotional hypervigilance
  • The urge to check messages — and what it’s really about
  • How it feels when your partner becomes amicable with his ex after years of drama
  • Why calm can feel unsafe when you’re used to chaos
  • The bond between Elizabeth and her stepson despite the obstacles
  • How false allegations impact a stepmum’s sense of safety
  • What helps when old triggers appear in new, quieter seasons

If You Need Support
Book a free introductory coaching call: https://www.stepmumspace.com/booking

Learn more about Katie’s work: https://www.stepmumspace.com

Keywords:
high conflict ex, stepmum checking messages, stepmum insecurity, stepmum emotional triggers, false allegations stepmum, stepmum nervous system, blended family stress, stepmum boundaries, struggling stepmum, stepmum podcast

Helpful Links:
Stepmum Space website: https://stepmumspace.com

Instagram: @stepmumspace
1:1 Coaching & Couples Coaching: https://stepmumspace.com

Your feelings make perfect sense — especially when the past has taught your body to stay on alert. You don’t have to navigate it alone.

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Katie South:

Hello, I'm Katie, and this is Stepmum Space, where each episode we'll talk candidly about the fairy tales and scary tales of Stepmum Life. So whether you've been a Stepmum for years, you're just starting out, or you want to understand the Stepmum in your life a little bit better, this is the place for you. Hello everybody! I hope you have all had good weeks. I have been really busy with our daughter's fifth birthday celebrations, and I've also been running an evening Stepmum Space workshop, which was brilliant! I love seeing women getting so much from the sessions and walking away with tools, techniques, and a personalised plan of practical things they can do to improve their stepmum journey. It's also so lovely seeing women connecting with women who actually understand, and we know nobody gets a stepmum like another stepmum. If you're interested in joining the next round of workshops or in exploring one-to-one coaching, then please do head to stepmumspace.com to find out more or get in touch with me directly through the website or on Instagram at StepmumSpace. Now my guest today is Elizabeth. Elizabeth is a stepmum to a little boy and has a biological daughter with her husband. When she met her husband, he was seeing a lot of his son and his ex as a trio, but things took a different turn when Elizabeth came on the scene. I hope you enjoy the conversation. So Elizabeth, welcome, nice to see you. Hello, nice to see you too. How are you doing today?

Elizabeth:

Good. We are smooth sailing. Come through the storm and we are smooth sailing. It's nice, it's a nice feeling. Oh, that sounds ominous.

Katie South:

So uh tell us then before we get into the storm, tell us a little bit about your family.

Elizabeth:

Okay, so um I'm married to my lovely husband, and we have a 10-year-old stepson. Well, I have a 10-year-old stepson, and I also have a two-year-old daughter. And yeah, so that's our little family at the moment. Two dogs and little terrace that we all live happily in at the moment. So yeah, it's all good. And what's the setup with your stepson? Is his mum in the picture? Yes, very much so. It's pretty much 50-50. She has him an extra two nights a month, but apart from that, it's pretty, it's it's pretty good. So, like I said before, it's it's a very calm situation at the moment. We have him Monday to Wednesday every week, and then every other Friday to Tuesday. So it makes sense for us that some people can't get their head around it, but it does work out pretty much 50-50.

Katie South:

Yeah, I can imagine a lot of people listening, bring their faces up, thinking, right, how does that work better? Yeah. When when you're in your own routine, you're so used to it that it just seems completely normal. So, how long have you been with your husband and how did you guys meet?

Elizabeth:

So we met online quite a long time ago, actually. We met around six years ago, and I wasn't in a good place at the time, and I think I was just um on online dating just to sort of to meet people and to chat, and and never ever went out on dates. Anyway, we swapped numbers at the time, and nothing ever came of it. And um, it's a bit of an in-joke between us that I ghosted him. Um and yeah, I I'd never really uh thought about him for a while, if I'm being totally honest. Um, and then a year later he got back in touch with me and said, Would you like to go out for that drink that you promised me a year ago? And then, yeah, the rest's history, so to speak. We went on the date, and then here we are today.

Katie South:

And did you find out about his child before the date, or was that something he told you once you'd been dating?

Elizabeth:

No, I knew that he that he had a son straight away. He's never not been um clear about his his home life. So yeah, I knew about I knew about him straight away.

Katie South:

And how was your relationship with your stepson in the early days?

Elizabeth:

Really good. We decided to wait quite a while before um I was introduced to him. We actually waited a year um before I was introduced to my stepson. The reason behind it was because I'm a very maternal person, and I knew that if I met him quite early on that I'd probably become attached quite quickly. And I wanted to make sure that the relationship was solid before we moved forward. And my husband at the time was in quite a toxic relationship with his ex, and he had other reasons for putting it off, really. So yeah, we waited quite a while, but once we met, he's just my little best bud. You know, we've got a really good relationship, it's you know, is it's solid. He can we talk about all sorts, and you know, we do things together, just me and him, and yeah, we've just we're just best pals, really. We do we do loads together, it's great, and he's a really, really good lad.

Katie South:

Oh, that's so nice. And I can see because obviously I can see your face on the screen, that it's just like a gorgeous look when when you talk about him. So it must be really nice to have that relationship. So you mentioned that your husband had a bit of a toxic relationship with his ex. Um, had they been separated a while?

Elizabeth:

They had actually, yeah. They'd separated when my stepson was two, um, and I didn't meet my stepson until he was six. So they'd been separated quite a while before I came on the picture. What would happen in was they were spending time together as I don't want to say the word family because they weren't a family, but my husband would do things um as a threesome, so to speak. So his ex-wife would say, Would you like to see uh my stepson on this weekend when it wasn't his weekend to have him? And then they'd end up doing something all together. And at the time, um, and this was before I met him, he's admitted that he did it because he wanted to see him. And it's as simple as that, really. You know, after having my daughter, I totally identify with that, and I wouldn't want to be in the position that he was in where you know you've gone from living with your child to then actually only seeing them half of the week, it must be absolute torture. And if you get that opportunity to spend time with the child, then of course you're going to take it. Obviously, unfortunately, she was there as well, but they were doing things together, so it was hard for him because she was putting this pressure on him to see him. And if he said, Oh, actually, no, I can't that weekend, then she would turn around and say, Oh, you clearly don't want to see your son. So it was almost a little bit like emotional blackmail, and he was spending a lot of time all together when I suspect that he didn't want to, he didn't want to see her, but he was trying to just soak up all the time with his son that he could, which is totally reasonable in my opinion.

Katie South:

Yeah, and it's quite a weird one, isn't it, to find the balance between what's kind of good for the child, to see mum and dad getting on for it to be amicable, for there to be no tension, and then like what's a bit confusing for the child. Okay, we do all this stuff together, but we don't live together. How do you draw a boundary? And I think those parents who can do that, great, but I've yet to see an example of where that works well when one of them gets a partner.

Elizabeth:

Absolutely. And I think that that was the catalyst for things changing when my husband started dating me. You know, everything was absolutely fine at the start. I'm a very laid-back person, and I actually encouraged it. And I said, Oh God, yeah, if you get the chance to see him, go see him. You know, you know, I was assured that the marriage was over, that you know, the the only reason that he was seeing his son was to see his son, basically. And so at the start, I was all for it. You know, I was I had my life, I had my own house at this point, I was really enjoying my life, and my husband had come along and I was enjoying getting to know him. And it wasn't massively serious. We were going on dates, you know, we were taking the dogs for walks, but at that point we we still had very separate lives, and then it got to about six or seven months into the relationship, and I started to think, hmm, I think this could go somewhere. And we'd had the discussion of the future and what we both wanted, and yeah, it got to a point where I started to feel anxious when he was going on these outings, and and actually a little bit of the green-eyed monster started coming out, which is very unlike me. I'm not a jealous person, and we had the discussion of I don't think I can cope with this anymore, and he was amazing, and he said, Right, okay, yeah, I see a future with you, and this is upsetting you, so right, let's do something about it.

Katie South:

But and what was that something that he did then?

Elizabeth:

So he told her about me and at first it was all fine. I think that she wasn't expecting for us to carry on seeing each other. I think she thought of me as a bit of a novelty, and okay, well, he's been on a few dates with this this woman, but nothing will come of it. We'll just carry on doing what we're doing. We started to become more serious, and then the conversation came up of right, she's gonna meet him, as in she's gonna meet um my son. And uh again, at first she was all for it. Yep, I'd really like to meet this woman. Let's all meet, let's have a coffee. I want to get to know the woman that's going to be involved in my son's life, and I thought, fantastic, this is going better than I thought it would. And then I don't know what happened, and something flipped, and it was almost like World War 5.3 came about, to be honest. Tell me more. So it was just really it was just tough. I think the day before I met him, obviously I was excited, nervous, you know, everything that you could possibly, every emotion you could possibly imagine meeting someone else's child, you know, and this is the person that I'm hoping I'm gonna spend the rest of my life with. And this is the the most important person in his life that I'm meeting. You know, I want to make a good impression, you know, we'd we'd arrange this fantastic day, taking him bowling somewhere neutral, it would all been arranged. And yeah, she sent a text the day before saying, This is not going to happen. Forget it. I'm not interested in meeting this woman. You she would she is not allowed, categorically not allowed to meet my son. Wow. Yeah, it was totally out of the blue, and uh yeah, even my husband kind of went, What? And what was her reasoning for the sudden U-turn? There was no reason. There was absolutely no reason for it. I I don't know whether just reality had hit and she'd finally thought, Oh, wait a minute, my son is gonna meet this woman. I I just I don't know what happened. And all that night it it just it it got worse, like the whole night, if it was just message after message after message, and there was a phone call under no circumstances is she to meet him, and I could I I got called she quite a lot, which I took offence to. Yeah, and I just thought, wait a minute, I like I pride myself on being a nice person, and you know, I go out of my way to make sure that I'm that I don't offend anyone, and to a point sometimes at my detriment, really. And I was really offended, and I thought, wait a minute, you don't know me, you don't know who I am, you don't know my morals, my values, my beliefs. All you know is that I'm going out with your ex-husband. And the fact that she'd refused to meet me was the starting point where I thought, this isn't gonna go well. And I thought, you know, knuckle down, I think this is gonna be a bit of a um a ride, to be honest. And I wasn't wrong. We decided that I was gonna meet him, and we went ahead with the day as planned. We made the decision not to tell her that I was gonna meet him because I think at that point we had put boundaries up already, and this was right for us, this was right for my stepson. You know, we'd been together a year, we'd had the conversation about the future. I knew I wasn't going anywhere. He knew he wasn't going anywhere, and it was just the next step for us as a couple and for us to progress. I needed to meet his son. We'd gotten to a point in our relationship where I was staying at his house because he lived 40 minutes from me at the time, and so I'd take a suitcase on the days he didn't have his son, and then I would leave and take all my stuff with me. And I felt like I was living two lives, and it just wasn't ideal.

Katie South:

I speak to quite a few women actually in my coaching work who will use the word I felt like the other woman. I felt like I was having an affair because they were hiding their relationship when actually you're not doing anything that you should feel that you're hiding, and that mental stress of, like you say, constantly having to pack your suitcase and everything off after a year, it's it takes its toll.

Elizabeth:

It does, it got tough, and I like to think I'm quite resilient as a person, and I just got to a point where I just said I can't keep doing this, you know. And I and I wanted to meet him by that point, you know, I was excited to meet him, you know. All he's talked about with his was his son. I thought, I want to meet this little mini you because he sounds really cool. So yeah, we went ahead with the meeting. It couldn't have gone better. We had it all planned. We took him bowling, you know, bought him a little present. I bought him um it'll always be a funny story between us, and we'll always reminisce. I bought him a big slush puppy and he spilled it everywhere and it went all over me, all over my new jeans that I'd bought for the occasion. Um, and yeah, it's just it's a fun memory of of the day when when we met. And I treasure that day so much, and it's it's honestly one of the best days of my life. And it was so funny when we came out of the meeting because he was just he was just an innocent child, and he it was so funny, and he said to me, Do you want to come and look at my train set? And he like, we looked, my me and my husband looked at each other, and I just thought, he's accepted me already, you know. And unbeknownst to him, I'd already seen his train set because I obviously had been in the house quite a few times, but yeah, he invited me back to the house, we had pizza, and we had such a lovely day, and I just thought, yeah, this is how it should be, and everything just felt right, and then he dropped him off at his mum's house, and yeah, he came back, and I'd never seen him cry up to this point. It was just traumatic to see. Um, she had screamed in the street in front of my stepson, she had called him names, she called me names. That part of the day wasn't pleasant.

Katie South:

And this is just because your husband introduced his son to you. Correct. Yes. And and therefore your husband's ex Wow. I I mean, I I know it happens. Whenever I hear these stories, I think I know this happens. But at the same time, I struggle to get my head into it a little bit.

Elizabeth:

I know, it's yeah. I mean, I've I've struggled. I mean, I after the meeting, she she didn't stop him seeing him, um, which we were grateful for.

Katie South:

And horrible for your stepson to have to see that. It must have been really confusing for a six-year-old.

Elizabeth:

Yeah, very much so. And even to this day, um, he hates conflict. Obviously, we're married now. So we have we have the occasional argument, as all married couples do. And even if he even censors a hint of tension, he hates it. And he will give us both a cuddle and say, please don't argue. And and I think that's a direct impact on him from those younger years when there was conflict between them both. But I tried my best and with with her after that. I said to my husband, tell her I will go for a coffee with her, I will, you know, I'll just meet her somewhere. I wrote her a six-page letter. I told her all about myself. I just wanted to get across to her that I wasn't a threat because I felt that that was the only reason that she was being so negative about me because I felt that maybe she thinks I'm a threat, maybe she thinks I'm gonna swoop in and try and be his mum, and then that was not what I wanted. So yeah, I'd I'd I'd told her all about myself in the letter, I told her my background. I I tried everything.

Katie South:

And did she respond to the letter?

Elizabeth:

No, no, no. I've never received a reply from the letter. No, I don't even know what she did with it.

Katie South:

And what about the requests for meeting up for a coffee or a chat? Silence, radio silence. Wow. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting, isn't it? Because you know, we all we always try and have empathy for everyone in these situations. But given the fact that they'd been separated for four years and at some point she must have known her husband was going to meet somebody, it's quite an extreme reaction after all that time, you know, when you're somebody who kind of comes along so far after their breakup in a completely logical situation. Do you have any idea what was behind all her outbursts?

Elizabeth:

I don't, and to this day, I don't know what it was at the time. I I put it down to her in the simplest form, just having some issues. And I've had a lot of therapy because I don't deal very well when someone doesn't like me. I like to be everyone's friend and I and I can't stand confrontation, I shy away from it. A therapist once told me if someone's pointing their finger at you, they're actually pointing it at themselves. And that really resonated with me. And I thought she's projecting so much anger, and I think that she the anger is actually to herself. Their marriage ended because of her infidelity. And I do wonder if she was very resentful of the fact that he was finally moving on, and whether she did at some point think that things might get back on track. That's speculation from my side. You know, I I've not never spoken to her about it and probably never will. And but that's just the way I've learnt to make sense of it in my own head, really. Because like you said, there was no rational explanation for the outburst. I could understand it if they'd only been separated six months or so and I'd come along, but it'd been a long time. Yes, I did upset the status quo, so to speak, when I came along, but you would have thought that after all that time, like you said, she would have thought he's not gonna be on his own forever, you know. I'm gonna have to expect this at some point.

Katie South:

So, how did things kind of develop from there? So you've got this ex who doesn't want you to have anything to do with the child, but you you've got a man who you want to spend the rest of your life with and a kid who's really taken to you. So what happened then?

Elizabeth:

Um, so after that, we we just took it really steady, really. My husband would ask my stepson, what do you want to do this weekend? You know, and and a lot of the time he would ask to see me, which was so sweet, and we never pushed me on to him. My husband would ask him, Oh, do you fancy going for a walk with Elizabeth? And he'd say, Yeah, great. And it just sort of like evolved from there, really. We'd decided that I was gonna move in, and so I moved in, and we took the again, we took the same approach of well, we're just gonna tell her this is happening rather than discuss it, because that seemed to be the best way to deal with her moving forward. That actually went without a hitch, and she let us be for a little while. Subsequently, after that, I think again it hit her that there was a woman living with her son, and the little messages started coming through when he used to come back to our house. So it started to be little things like, Daddy, um, Elizabeth's not allowed to help me brush my teeth, uh, Elizabeth's not allowed to um to help me get in the bath, Elizabeth's not allowed to help me get my clothes ready. And it just started getting really, really old very quickly. And it was actually really hurtful because it was the maternal things that she was trying to put a stop to. She was trying to put a stop to me having any maternal involvement with him in the family home. And that for me was difficult because I am a maternal person, and it was my natural instinct to help him with these things, and that being told through him that I wasn't allowed to, it just hurt on so many levels, and I really struggled with it, to be honest.

Katie South:

I'm surprised that she went for the approach of sending those messages through her child. It must have been quite confusing for him. Did he ever show any signs of being a bit confused about what was going on?

Elizabeth:

Um no, because I think that it had been just repeated to him so many times that mum was right and that everyone else was wrong, that he just was that that was that was right for him. And you know, under no circumstances was I to do these things. And if I tried to, he would become a little bit anxious about it, and and so so she did win with that, really, because I just totally stopped doing it because my focus was him, and if he was getting upset, then no, I I wasn't to try and help him with anything. But the it it came to a head with the messages when one day it was out of the blue and we were doing something together. I think we were drawing or something, and all of a sudden he just said, Oh Elizabeth, mummy says you don't know what it takes to be a mummy. Wow. And I just sat there and I had to take myself out of the room and I burst into tears. And obviously, I never let him see me cry, but that's one of the only times I have cried because that was to me personally, that was such a hurtful comment. And he didn't understand what he was saying. You know, by this point he was seven. And kids just say things, and then you know, the next second there's like, oh, can I have some chicken nuggets? Uh that will always stay with me, that comment. Always.

Katie South:

Yeah, and that's obviously something which has come from his mum because it's such a grown-up thing to say, you know, it's not a it's not something a child would say. Yeah, absolutely.

Elizabeth:

And to a certain extent, after having my daughter, I do I do understand it a little, and maybe she was trying to say, you haven't birthed a child, so you don't understand what it takes. But I think there's so much more to being a parent than birthing a child. I think that just some women think because they're giving birth to them, it just gives them this God-given right that they know best about everything, and I wholeheartedly disagree. And yeah, so that was so hurtful, and I was upset about that for for quite a long time, and as you can tell, it still riles me up when I speak about it now.

Katie South:

I can see that, and I'm interested, did when any of this was going on, did your husband ever have any words with her about it?

Elizabeth:

Not at that point, up until this point, she had pretty much drilled into him that if he didn't do things her way, she would stop contact, and so that was a separate issue that was sort of flowing along nicely, uh, beside the issues that I was having. It got to a point where she started to interfere with other things surrounding my stepson, and alongside the messages, there were other things and other hurtful things, but the the worst one where it sort of came to a head for us as a family was that my husband had asked me if I wanted to start doing the school run. I said, Yeah, absolutely. You know, I didn't want it to be a regular thing because you know I had my own life at the time as well. I didn't want to be tied into doing the school run. Um but I said, Yeah, absolutely, you know, get get me on the list. So, you know, he took me with him a few times. I met his teachers, I met the head teacher, and I was put on the list, and she was notified of this.

Katie South:

I love how you say it like it's kind of an exclusive club, like I'm on the list, I can do the school run.

Elizabeth:

I've made it, I am on that list. I have made it, yeah. We had a phone call the day I was due to pick him up uh from the school saying that I'd been flagged as a safeguarding risk. Um and I work in quite a responsible job, and this sort of flipped me over the edge, to be honest, because I thought, no, I mean you can mess with my emotions, but you don't start messing with my job and my career. That's just we're going into a whole new ballgame now.

Katie South:

So it was your stepson's mum who'd phoned the school and flagged you as the safeguarding risk?

Elizabeth:

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Luckily, I never actually made it to the school to be stopped to pick him up. But yeah, that wasn't a pleasant time. By this point, we'd had some legal advice and we knew more of what our rights were, and my husband got to a point with it where he said, enough's enough, we need to have a chat. And if we were at level 5.3, we then went straight to level 10. It got 10 times worse. We then absolutely dreaded drop-offs on a Sunday evening, and I know that so many other stepmumps were in uh were in that position.

Katie South:

So you'd had the situation where you'd been told that you're a safeguarding risk. Yeah. Your your then partner gets in touch with his ex and says, Hey, we've got to have a conversation about this. What the hell's going on, or more polite words meaning the same thing. W what happened then between them?

Elizabeth:

It wasn't a pleasant time. It was just as the pandemic was hitting as well, we were all trying to make sense of what was going on. We were all classed as key workers, so he was able to go to school, and this is when this was all happening. And it got to one Friday. This is when it it it took a turn and sort of all hell broke loose. She called and said, just to let you know, if you do try and pick him up today, I'm not letting him come to your house. And he asked why. And she said, I think you're both damaging his mental health, and until you can prove that you're not a risk to him, he's not coming to your house.

Katie South:

How were you supposed to be damaging his mental health?

Elizabeth:

Again, I think the whole I'll point my finger at you, or actually I'm pointing it myself, played a huge part here because there was no reason behind it. You know, I I'd not done anything, my husband hadn't done anything, and I I just think it was jealousy. I just think it was total jealousy of our home life and that we were happy and he was a happy little boy when he was with us.

Katie South:

And during that time, because it's quite unusual that you hear a mother being so anti-a stepmother and it's seemingly not having an impact on the child, so he was still quite comfortable being around you, and you didn't notice the change in his behaviour.

Elizabeth:

Nothing, absolutely nothing. I mean, he was still getting the whole, no, you can't help me with this, you can't help me with that. But that was kind of the norm. And actually, looking back, that has actually set good boundaries for myself and my stepson. Because as he's growing, I mean he's 10 now, I decided that actually that's a good starting level for a boundary because as he's growing, I don't want to help him in the bathroom, you know, and I don't want to help him get dressed, do that yourself. So actually, that's worked out quite well because that was, I know it's in a negative way it started off, but that is in both our brains now, where I'll knock on the door before I go in his bedroom, and we have that mutual respect.

Katie South:

It's great that she hasn't managed to damage your relationship with your stepson. Did the sort of toxicity coming from the ex have any effect on your husband and your relationship with him?

Elizabeth:

No. My husband and I are very good at communicating, and we both said at the start of our relationship that if it's going to work, we've got to communicate, whether that's about the good, the bad, the uncomfortable. I once said you might not like what I'm gonna say to you, but I'm gonna say it anyway, because I just felt that if we didn't communicate, it would be like a pressure cooker, and it would just it would boil over at some point, and someone would say something that they'd regret. So, no, it's it's never affected us as a couple until my daughter was born, which is a a different story. But going back to the day where she said we couldn't pick him up, they were on the phone for about five hours. She called and he put her on speaker, and she said, I think that you're damaging his mental health, and for that reason, until you can prove to me that you're not a risk to his health, that you won't be picking him up. If you try and pick him up, I will contact the Police, and you will not be allowed to have any contact with him until I'm satisfied. And it was all I this and I that. My husband just lost it, to be honest. I've never seen him like that before, and I've never seen him like it since. And he was like a lion, and I was so proud of him actually, because he I think something clicked in him and he and I could see him change, and he was he just kind of turned into this man that was. So they were on the phone for about five hours. I heard we listened, well, I listened to it all. It was emotionally draining. Eventually, he got her to see that actually this wasn't the best thing for my stepson. She finally relinquished, and things from that point have calmed down considerably.

Katie South:

Wow. I'd love to know what he said to her. I feel like he should have negotiated Brexit or something. If only. Okay, so he's obviously had this quite landmark conversation, and it seemed like things have calmed down. Does that mean that things are a lot happier for you all?

Elizabeth:

Yeah, I mean, it's taken a long, long time. That wasn't the the biggest change in her, actually. It was about two years ago. We saw a huge change in her, and she started asking questions about me, you know, what kind of things that I like, and which I found extremely unnerving after everything that we'd been through. Asking questions to your stepson or to your partner? To our partner. So she'd say things like, Oh, what's Elizabeth's take on this that's happened? It was really unnerving at the time because I was like, Well, you've not been interested at all for years, and all of a sudden, you want my opinion? Like, what's going on? And then my stepson came home one day and said, I've met Mum's boyfriend.

Katie South:

I was just about to say, has mummy got a boyfriend at this point?

Elizabeth:

And we kind of went, ah, okay. Mummy's boyfriend had a little girl.

unknown:

Hmm.

Elizabeth:

Hmm. And they were spending a lot of time together as a foresome. And we do believe that this has been the change in her that she's had to look after someone else's child, and she's realised that actually it's not a walk in the park, and there are other women involved that may not have taken kindly to her.

Katie South:

Interesting. Very how karma weaves her magic way. Isn't she wonderful? So things have kind of calmed down. Mummy's got a boyfriend, mummy's maybe got some empathy now, and things feel a bit easier. Did the relationship between her and your husband become easier as well?

Elizabeth:

Yeah, it did. It did become a lot easier. I struggled with it becoming easier because I was used to the conflict. I was used to no contact between them. And then all of a sudden, there was a lot of contact between them. And this was new to me, and I didn't like it. When my daughter was born, I developed postnatal anxiety. And I do think a lot of it was from my husband ex-wife because she seemed now. I don't know if this was uh just a coincidence, but the communication upped quite a lot after my daughter was born, and I was convinced that she was gonna take my family away from me, and to a point where I wanted to see all the messages she was sending him, and I wanted to write the replies back, and I needed I needed some control over the c the the conversation that was happening, and it it got so bad that whenever her ring tone appeared, I just took his phone off him to read the message first. That wasn't me at all. I got really upset about it, and we had to have a sit-down and a chat. I just said, Look, I need to put some boundaries up because I can't handle all this communication.

Katie South:

And what was it about the messages that you found bothered you?

Elizabeth:

There was nothing untoward. It wasn't like they were flirting, it was all about my stepson, but it was just too much. You know, it would be sending photographs of look what he's had for his tea. Or she'd message and say, he needs this for school in three months' time. To me, those things can be discussed all at one point, you know. Build them, like leave them, letting them build up, and then discuss a drop-off. You don't need to be messaging 10, 20 times a day. That's a lot, yeah. And pair that with a new mom, sleep deprived, hormones, yeah, yeah, yeah. The two didn't go well together, and yeah, I got to a point where I just couldn't handle it, and I couldn't handle the amount of communication. And my husband was fantastic again, and he said, Right, what do you what do you want to do? How do we handle this? So I said, I can't look at any more messages from her, so you just deal with that now. Ever since then, it's been difficult, but I just don't get involved in the communication. He deals with it, he talks to her about his son, and he's put boundaries in place as well, where if it's not important that he replies straight away, he leaves it. I really respect that about him.

Katie South:

And is she okay with that? Because I was speaking to a woman last week, and it's not the first time I've heard it actually, where she was saying if her husband doesn't reply to his ex sort of within 24 hours, he'll get a load of follow-up messages.

Elizabeth:

No, to be fair, I think we got a bit of pushback at the start, but he explained. And the thing is, she's an intelligent woman. You know, I have to give her a juice. She's got a brain and she understands, you know, that we do need to put boundaries in place.

Katie South:

But just because you're intelligent, it doesn't mean that you have empathy and that you understand emotions. Like they are different things. So you can have like a really highly intelligent woman who just has no concept of how you treat other people or what's right for other people in those situations.

Elizabeth:

Oh, totally. If she wants to ask a question, she will ask the question. She she doesn't care that it's nine o'clock at night and it's not our day to have him. He could be sat next to her in her house and she'll message my husband. And I've just gotten used to it now because I just think, well, if she needs to message, she needs to message. You know, he doesn't reply straight away or sometimes leave it until the next day. It's fine. We don't grow up do we think, oh, in an ideal world, you know, my husband, ex-wife would be contacting him every day. It's something that you that you learn to deal with, I suppose.

Katie South:

It just becomes sort of day-to-day. I think if you're coming at it with a good intention and you're not trying to cause trouble and you just literally want to communicate with your ex, you sort of don't overthink it. So if I'm yeah, I know if I'm writing to my ex-husband, I just sort of say what I need to say. But actually, as you're talking, I'm thinking, oh, well, I don't, I don't think will I interrupt their evening or is this a bad time to send a message? Because I it I don't even think about them. I just think I need to ask my ex-husband if he wants to come to parents' evening or if he wants me to do it. Like it's so functional that you sort of don't think about it. But then I guess if your husband is saying to his ex, hey, these messages are too much, then she needs to stop.

Elizabeth:

Well, the thing is as well, I think that if things have been okay from the start, I don't think that it would bother me.

Katie South:

Yeah.

Elizabeth:

Because I'm so laid back. You know, if we'd not been through all that drama, you know, at the start, I don't think that it would bother me at all. And that now I just think, well, it's the principle, you know, what what is the need for these messages when we haven't even got him? Now you said that, I do I do understand it. You know, if you want to ask a question, you know, she's a busy woman and it's on her mind, then yeah, you just send the message.

Katie South:

Multiple messages a day is pretty unusual.

Elizabeth:

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's not half as bad as it used to be. She she's pretty good at it now. And actually, there's been several occasions recently where she's messaged me about something, which if you would have said that to me five years ago, I probably would have swore at you and said.

unknown:

Yeah.

Katie South:

So that's after your daughter's been born and you've kind of said to your husband, right, you deal with it. I just can't anymore. How's it been since then?

Elizabeth:

It's gotten to a point where, like I said at the start, we're sailing the calm waters. I have her number, she has my number. When I have my stepson now, if I'm by myself, I feel like I can communicate with her and it will be reciprocated quite well. She's very businesslike. She doesn't spot pleasantries, which I actually enjoy because I don't think after everything we've been through that I would ever want to have more dialogue with her than I absolutely need to. Actually, we had a discussion, um, me and her, I think about just before Christmas. My husband was at work and I needed to ask her a question about Christmas holidays, and my diary was getting full, and I wanted to make sure that I'd not planned anything for when we had him. You know what it's like at Christmas, it just goes to pot, doesn't it? The schedule. Um, and I just thought, right, do you know what? I need an answer to this question, and I can't wait until tonight. So I just messaged her directly and she was really great about it. And she said, Do you want me to include you in calendar invites? I was proud of myself because I was screaming out to say, Yes, include me in the calendar invites. That's me being accepted by you. But I said no, because that was my boundary kicking in. I said, No, it's fine, you just keep doing the communicating and I'll do it through my husband. And that was the right decision for me because I don't want to be involved with her, and I still harbour some resentment to everything that she put us through at the start, especially for my husband, really, because he's such a good man and he's such a good dad, and I felt that that was targeted and that was hit out at, and that's what I struggle with now. That I don't trust that it won't go back to how it was. How does that feel for you to be in that situation? It's very bizarre because when I first started seeing my husband, I think I had this Disney idea of how it was going to be. You know, we were all gonna get on, we're all gonna co-parent, we were all gonna go for coffee once a month, it was gonna be great. We'd all get their baking aprons out and make their ice crispy buns. The reality of it, obviously, it hits hard and it caused a lot of hurt. It's only because we communicated so well that I think our relationship stood that test. And I know unfortunately some relationships aren't as lucky. I am very protective over my relationship with my husband, and I worry that yes, it's all going fine now, but we're gonna be sort of drawn into this lull of security, and then all of a sudden, something will happen where it will all kick off again, and then we'll be back to square one. And to be honest, you know, the logical side of my brain says, No, it's been fine for a long time, and I know that people say that people can't change. I have seen her change, and I have felt her change, and it's a nice thing to say, you know, and it's refreshing thing to say about someone who's been so hurtful, and I forgive her for everything that she's put us through because at the end of the day, my stepson comes first, and as long as he's happy, that's the main thing for us, and it's so important that he has a relationship, a good relationship with his mum and his dad and me. And I think as a step mum, you have to be selfless quite a lot of the time, and it's taken me a good few years to I don't think I've perfected it. I don't think you can ever perfect that role. It's it's a tough one, it's a tough one. I'd like to think that I can hold my head up high and say that I did the right thing for my stepson, and as long as I can say that, I'm happy.

Katie South:

I I think it sounds like you've been a bloody saint, to be honest, Elizabeth. I don't know how I would have put up with all of that, to be honest. I mean, it's it's certainly, I think, partnerships where there is an ex-wife involved who is tricky are always challenging. I'm interested actually, is is she still with her partner?

Elizabeth:

We don't know. We'd heard that they'd separated, but she keeps her cards very close to her chest.

Katie South:

Well, I guess if you haven't seen any impact, then it doesn't matter if they have separated. And you know, maybe she's felt the benefit because who knows? It's always we say it a lot, it's hard sharing your child, and nothing excuses that kind of behaviour. But let's hope that she's done whatever work she needs to do on herself and got to this point where she's like, actually, Elizabeth's in my son's life, he he loves her, she loves him, that's great. I might find it tricky, but but I've got to deal with that myself.

Elizabeth:

Yeah, it's funny you should say that actually. There was a conversation last week, and she went out of her way to call my husband and say to him, um, I just want you to know that I'm really happy for you, and my son loves Elizabeth, and that's good enough for me. Wow, how did that feel? Mixed. I wish that this had happened at the start, but we've got there in the end, and my stepson hasn't been affected, and that's the main thing for me. And the fact that he's come through it all and he's a happy young man and he's grown into such a wonderful person, that's good enough for me.

Katie South:

Yeah, and it's amazing actually that it hasn't affected him because I can't tell you how many stories I hear about women who are desperate to have a relationship with their stepchild but are stuck because the child's biological mother won't encourage slash allow slash permit that, and the child gets totally, totally stuck, and that's where kind of the real heartbreak is because then invariably they lose a relationship with their father.

Elizabeth:

Absolutely, and you know, after becoming a mother, I do understand where she was coming from, you know, those years ago when she said she doesn't understand what it takes to be a mum, and I do understand that to a certain degree, and I can't imagine not seeing my daughter every day, and then to imagine that another woman is in her life helping to raise her. I think that it takes great courage to allow that to happen, and I applaud her for that because she could have carried on the way she was going, and it could have been very, very detrimental, but she's clearly done some reflecting and it's worked out, and yeah, I just really, really hope that it stays this way, and that my hope is that we can all dance at his wedding one day.

Katie South:

Oh, I love that. It's funny, I I often think about you know, we're in it for the long haul. It's not about oh, until they're 18. No, you're gonna share grandkids one day. Look, it's been an absolute joy to talk to you. I am really, really grateful for your honesty and kind of again, just like so many of these women I talk to, just like uh a bit in awe of you because what you've been through is quite incredible and clearly has been really, really painful. But you've turned it around, you are there, you've got your happy marriage, you've got your daughter, you've got your stepson, your family sounds wonderful. So, congratulations.

Elizabeth:

Thank you. Lovely to speak to you. I've listened to every single one of your podcasts, and it's been such a support. Um, I can't tell you.

Katie South:

Thank you. That's like always means the world to me to hear that because um sort of what it's all about, isn't it? Just about reaching out and letting people know they're not alone, and that's why I always really appreciate people who get in touch and are willing to be vulnerable enough to share kind of their journey. So I know that there'll be women listening who will feel seen, heard, and validated from what you've shared today. So massive, massive thank you. Yeah, thank you. Oh, Elizabeth, so much appreciation for you and to you lovely, lovely, lovely people listening. I really hope you enjoyed that and found something you can take with you. Thank you so much for all your messages and shout-outs on social media. I really, really do appreciate every one of you who's spreading the word about the show, rating and reviewing. If you haven't already done so, please do rate a review wherever you get your podcasts. It really does help people find us. And thank you so so much for all your messages and support. It is absolutely incredible to hear how the show is helping you. If you're in need of some support yourself, do take a look at the one to one coaching packages or workshops available at www.stepmumspace.com. Finally, if you've got a story to share, I would love to hear from you. Get in touch with me via Instagram at Stepmum Space or on the website. See you next time!

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Katie South

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