S4, Ep 8. When your partner undermines you, fussy eaters and other parenting issues - with Sue Atkins, parenting expert

In this episode Katie talks to parenting expert Sue Atkins.

Katie and Sue discuss common Step-parenting issues and how to navigate them and Sue shares her tried and tested tips for fussy eaters, kids who won't sleep in their own bed and (of course) grumpy teenagers!

Sue answers listener questions candidly and with good humour!

This is the last episode in season 4, please subscribe to be notified when the new season launches or follow on instagram @stepmumspace or at www.stepmumspace.com

Transcript

KEYWORD SEARCH TERMS
Stepmum, Stepmother, Stepkids, Stepchild, Stepchildren, Stepdaughter, Stepson, Stepfamily, Stepfamily problems, Stepdaughter Problems, Stepson problems, Blended family problems, stepmum help, blended family help, stepmum support, blended family support, Stepmum podcast, blended family podcast, Stepfamily advice, Stepmum advice, blended family advice Stepmom, Bonus-mom, Bonus-daughter, Bonus-son, Blended family, Stepfamily anxiety, Anxious stepmum, stepmum anxiety, anxious when stepkids come

PLEASE NOTE THE TRANSCRIPTS ARE AUTO TRANSCRIBED AND MAY NOT BE 100% ACCURATE. THEY ARE A WORK IN PROGRESS AND I WILL EDIT THEM AS I CAN!

Hello, I'm Katie and this is Stepmum space where each episode we talk candidly about the fairy tales and scary tales of stepmom life. So whether you've been a stepmom for years and you're just starting out or you want to understand the stepmom in your life a little bit better, this is the place to be. 

Now I really hope that you are all doing okay and managed to survive or dare I say it even enjoy Mother's Day last weekend. I was really really pleased to see all the love for stepmoms on social media and it does feel like we are moving forward and making a difference.

I hope the children or partner in your life made you feel appreciated. 

Thank you so much for all the love about the Mother's Day episode. I really appreciate it. It was a little bit of a different format but I was so happy to get to represent a lot of stepmums out there. So thanks to everyone who sent in their comments. I have had some really lovely messages this week on Instagram and facebook from lots of stepmums who have just found Stepmum Space so if you are new to us, welcome!

You have found your tribe. 

Now I have been busy behind the Scenes giving the Stepmum Space Website a makeover. We have some incredible content which will be shared over the coming weeks so do subscribe at stepmumspace.com so you hear all the news first!

I have also released some new stepmum support workshop dates which you will be pleased to hear about and which you can find on the site. It is a really good investment in yourself, your well being and your happiness. So get yourself booked on and I really look forward to meeting you and helping you create positive change in your stepmom life. 

Now today is our last episode in Season Four and I am delighted to welcome a special expert guest the brilliant parenting expert Sue Atkins. Now a few weeks about you shared your parenting questions for me to put to sue in this special episode. There's a lot of great tips in here for all types. of parents. And I hope you enjoy it. 

Katie

Hello, Sue thanks for joining me today. 

Sue

Oh my pleasure. Thanks for inviting me. 

Katie

Sue you've got so much experience and I've got loads of questions that people have shared, wanting all your wisdom, then firstly, can you just share a bit about you and your background for those people who might not have come across you before? 

Sue

 Yes, well, I was a deputy head and class teacher for about 22 years and then my dad died quickly followed by my mum within the same year. And it was a major life change where you start to sort of analyse your own life. Where are you going? What do you want to do next? Life is short. I was walking my dogs. I've got three dogs walking across the Surrey field here in the mud, and I thought What did my parents give me? I thought they gave me self esteem. Hopefully not an arrogance, but you know, have a go at anything and work hard and try and stick with things. And I thought Yeah, well that's so interesting and that self esteem I've been this teacher working with children and all of that arena. Now I need to go back to where it actually starts, which I think is one of the parents. You know, parents are the ones that nurture self esteem and all of those things in children. So from that then I suddenly got invited to write my first book called Raising happy children for dummies. One in the famous black and yellow series that led on to BBC Radio and they don't fly TV this morning sitting on the sofa next to Disney asking questions. Parenting all about soap is on Disney. Also they're doing videos with Disney and things like that. And loads of radio working to do the work. But my books and my passion around raising happy, confident, resilient children, whatever they are, whatever age they come from, whatever their backgrounds, whatever their circumstances and then that led me when I went through divorce actually to write the divorce journal for kids, which is my award winning books for children going through separation, divorce, co parenting, so they got off the plane. So it's a positive place, to express themselves to understand the process for themselves to look at life in different ways and to have those big conversations with younger people so that they feel that they are being listened to and heard as I'm just very passionate around helping you be the best you can be as the parent if you kind of can crack that or at least give it your best shot then it's so important for your own well being and your own self esteem and so many of the women who I know will be listening today they want to do all the right things but because of circumstances or because of another home or another hair and elsewhere, it can be really tricky. So I'm really interested to see like how you've seen sort of family structures change over the course of your career or first as a head and then in in your more recent years. 

4:49

As a really interesting question, isn't it? Parents have always worried about their children and their parenting I think ever since time began. You want the best for your kids, whether that was way back in the 50s or even way back in the Victorian times or even further. back since then. So it's changed a bit because of the roles of different you know, parents and because perhaps of divorce, separation and breakup and that kind of stuff, perhaps is now faced with this more accepted in the sense of it's not stigmatised or taboo, or it was many many years ago. And people do not enter in to these situations lightly when I specialise in helping families through divorce, because people tend to stay much longer than they perhaps should, because they want the best for their kids. And they're sort of worried that it will damage them. And I always say it's not the divorce or the separation that damages kids is the level of conflict they experience. And every parent is doing their best and you need to cut yourself some slack. And I think one of the key messages I give to parents and single parents and CO parents step families all the rest of it is look after your own mental health which means getting up in the meantime, because that's not selfish. That's self care. So you've come back in more energised with a sort of bit from perspective, feeling better, a bit more patient bit more kind of relaxed, so that you can you know, off you go again, because it's really tiring and exhausting raising children. Isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. And it's really interesting because I do feel like as I'm a biological mother and a stepmom and I feel like as a biological mum, society really gives you that permission, that encouragement to kind of fasten your own mask and take care of yourself and take time out. But what a lot of the stepmoms I work with kind of play back to me is actually if they try and do that they get accused, often by their partner, but sometimes by other people, or you don't love his kids enough, you know, you knew I had kids and actually they just need that permission to say it's not I don't like them. It's just I need a bit of a break. So So that's advice you would give the step parents? 

6:55

Oh, absolutely. Because it's even harder in some ways, isn't it? Because they know well, you're not my mom. You can't tell me what to do, and all of that business. And so you do need to sing from the same song sheet and children are difficult and challenging. And if you've got stepchildren, there's all sorts of issues going on you don't know. You know how they feel about the breakup, how long ago it was. They don't know what they're hearing from the other parent, but they come back to you. So it's complicated and so you need to have some time out sometimes just to keep your own life going. Keep your sanity. Keep your own hobbies, your interests, and then you come back into parenting together. And you're more relaxed and you have that bigger picture. So I give you permission free from guilt, actually, ladies and gentleman. 

7:40

Yeah, and actually really so important, isn't it to be able to do that. What do you think kind of in general, it's a support that's available to step mums out there and I say step mums because obviously whilst step parenting is challenging for anybody we know that that mums do suffer more mental health issues anxiety depression than stepfathers and society is generally not as kind to step mothers as is the stepfather it's interesting turn of phrase as well as an expat mums as opposed to blended families and all of that stuff that might be quite a bit of work in America around the words. Yeah, yeah. And I think it's important that you know, step families or blended families you know, they need to be cut some slack, and I don't know where they get their support from, really, I think it's very important that you know, the podcasts that you do, people that blog and talk about it. It's quite complicated in many ways. So you do need support, like in everything with raising children. It's not easy sometimes. Sometimes it's it's a doddle. And it's fantastic and everything works very nicely. But then you'll always get a flare up in some. 

8:48

Yeah, and I think that coaching aspect is so important, just to almost create, where you want to get to rather than not doing anything, burying your head and then ended up in kind of counselling. Three years down the road. You know, speaking from experience, I should have learned a lot earlier. There's some external support before waiting until I was in a really, really tricky place and I coached at mums specifically and they do tend to find actually having the space to work through what's going on with them in that sort of safe, non judgmental space, but actually crafting where they want to get to rather than letting everything just happen to them is such a powerful thing. I guess mindful, isn't it and being what I call self aware, and awareness and that's whether you're a stepmother, or parenting in general, we tend to not notice until it's too late. What do you think I'll go ask you a question. What would you have done differently? What was when did you start to notice it? What did you overlook? It question so definitely going into it was naive. 

9:55

You know, I knew there would be bumps on the road. I was already a mum. And I'd found that pretty straightforward. So I thought because I loved kids and I got on with kids really well. I just thought it would be okay. 

10:12

And you know, and it wasn't and I think I held myself responsible for it not being okay in the beginning. And when I looked back, I think actually, there are so many other things I had zero control over or zero influence over. That made it difficult, but I was trying to fix everything. So then of course when I couldn't fix everything, I was feeling like a failure and I was feeling like so it's that like therapy, this thing, feeling so sort of rejected, that it became really hard. So I think I would always say, as a piece of advice to people like Don't, don't make yourself responsible for fixing the family solving the problems. Actually, it's the biological parents who need to do that their biological mom has to give the kids permission. But isn't it together? is a bit of everything. It's not just one or the others responsibility. 

11:10

It's something that you've come together and talk about why wonder you thought it was your responsibility to fix it. 

11:17

Yeah, not just you is it I mean, we want to do our best and you really want to gel and blend and get on together with everyone. But I wondered why you took that on? Yeah. 

11:28

I think part of its gender bias. Right. Yeah. And part of it to that and then a lot of the research will show that because there's such a negative myth around stepmothers in particular that you're so intent on dispelling that myth that you go that you go to so if my you know, this morning, my two little ones that were really quite annoying getting ready for school and I found found myself getting really annoyed with them, but I didn't feel guilty about it because I was like, well, they are being annoying. I've asked them to put their shoes on four times and they have if I was to ever have any sort of less positive emotion around my stepchildren, I feel really guilty even talking about it now. I would really beat myself up for that. But actually it was it's kind of normal because all children do things that are a bit annoying sometimes. And a lot of the statements I speak to you will be like, overnight, so it's okay if I don't really like them every second and it's okay if they annoy me because they feel so guilty about that. So I think there's a lot wrapped up in there and also the kind of lack of clarity about what your role is. So that comes up a lot for women that ambiguity around you know, if I do too much, then it's like stay in your lane. They've already got a mother but if I don't do enough, it's like, Oh, you don't care about them. Yes. Is that thing about trying to be a perfect parent and of course, because you'll come to a new relationship you want to be even better than the other mother almost. Is that it? I don't know. I never felt like I wanted to be better than the other mother or the mother. I I definitely. 

13:05

I definitely wanted her to feel like I was doing a good job by her kids actually. And that's fair enough, isn't it? 

13:18

To be a perfectionist. We took it to the other way and go the other extreme but insane giving people wishes. 

13:27

And that would be true whether they were your age. Children or your neighbours, or your kids. Yeah. And then you get to the point of course, as I did, because that is totally unsustainable to be, you know, Mary Poppins the whole time. Then you just have a meltdown. Or it just goes you know, it just goes completely wrong. And you know, God I would love to have my time again and do it differently. What did we all 

14:41

definitely wanted her to feel like I was doing a good job by her kids actually. And that's fair enough, isn't it and then to be a perfectionist, you took it to the other way and go the other extreme but like you say giving people permission. So August, and that would be true whether they were your age, children or your neighbours, or your kids. Yeah. And then you get to the point of course, as I did, because that is totally unsustainable to be, you know, Mary Poppins the whole time that you just have a meltdown. Or it just goes you know, it just goes completely wrong. And you know, God I would love to have my time again and do it differently would agree all but what I have learned, I just am so passionate about sharing with other people because we know that there is an honest conversation about step parenting out there. You know, there's there's a little bit but it's either kind of negative from the media or it's very martyrdom, and that's where most of my work with real families is in the middle. 

15:54

On the extreme side, and of course, when things go wrong, it builds and it builds like shaking up a can of Coke, and then it goes yeah, and then you've got to pick up all the pieces and wipe the floor because it's gone everywhere. So it is about noticing your triggers, and it's not weakness to ask for help or to discuss it. But you've got to pick your moment with your partner to talk about it and you know, don't do it when you're rushing out the door and you're trying to get to work or something. And again, it's how you say it, because then it can be very accusatory. And you've got to be able to sort of get that kind of conversation going that we're in this together. What can we do? What do you think? All of that body language, tone of voice and those words that we use, because we are you are in it together to raise the kids you know, and they are difficult, challenging as well as marvellous and exciting to be with them and all the rest of it says it's a whole jumble ballistic race completely and just want to pick up on something you said then that was really interesting because that kind of noticing triggers. I asked our listeners for some questions and obviously been inundated. So not sure we'll get through all of them. But we'll give it a go. Somebody did actually write to me saying there is a situation this is around meal times but I know from speaking to other women that there there are lots of situation around mealtimes where her stepkids are in this lady's where it's really fussy eaters, so she'll cook a meal and they will sort of refuse it and her husband will give in and just kind of make them something else which really irritates they've had the conversation and he's saying the husband saying, Well, I'm not expecting you to do it. So I don't know why you're getting so annoyed about it. She finds it really really triggering, and it always erupts into her feeling pissed off with her husband and not wanting to be around them. 

17:43

Spending on demand. 

17:45

Yeah, and giving him because he feels guilty is not the answer either. I write an awful lot around fussy eaters and where that comes from of how you get rid of it. You add in the mixture of guilt of perhaps, or the different approaches because moms dads sometimes come to balancing, not singing from the same song. And then of course you can understand the relationship then she gets really I can really understand the getting really close with that because that's not her core value. Also, you're making a rod for your own back because in the end you have to put four or five different meals every night in different different members of the family with that, so when like she's noticing that in that moment and feeling like her and you can almost feel that kind of rage coming up inside you like how do you stop to use your analogy which I love that kind of kind of coat from spilling over how do you stop that? Well I use an analogy about on your I've got one here my remote control from my telly. And I suggest that you press your pause button, your imaginary pause button on your remote. Take a physical step because all of that detaches you for a split second, while you're actually thinking about what am I going to say here? What am I going to do what needs to happen? And you deal with it in that moment, but then I will also put in my head, right? I'm not going to have a route here. We're not going to fuss about this now. This is quite a fundamental thing of you undermining my parents. Don't say it out loud in your head to revisit that when the kids are in bed or you're out you know in a restaurant having a coffee or something talking about families and life and all of that and saying look when you do the math, or even just ask questions what else? 

19:27

What messages are the children getting from this? Because suddenly you go oh, well I'm a pusher or whatever it is. And then you go okay, now what can we do differently? And what do we need to think about? The kids fussy eating and all the rest of it? You know, maybe I'll be piling up the food too high. They overwhelmed with different flavours. So it's by this too much, or, etc for our tents, both of us now around mealtimes because that can damage all sorts of things if you're tense all the time around. Yeah, and I think I love what you're saying then about kind of taking a physical step back. We talked with a mindset coach in a previous episode about actually emotions being kind of that energy in motion and doing it almost like a physical action to take yourself away. three deep breaths recenter yourself. Pause but pressure pause button. Yeah, I love that. And then kind of on the topic of tension. So that's a really interesting one that a lot of women will pay back to me that they feel tension in their home because they feel like they're kind of constantly being watched constantly being judged. And I hear a lot of stories about you know, I can't be myself because whatever I say gets reported back to the other home and we're not talking about, you know, awful things we're talking about. 

20:47

They might have said shit, or they might watch something on TV or they might have had a political view that was different to mums. Who knows. But how do you how do you handle that feeling of like feeling like you really can't be yourself in your own home. 

21:01

I said very big one. Because basically what you're saying about all the different things that we're talking about, actually, it's about communication. And it's about communicating with your partner, not even the kids on some of this stuff. These are quite big things and you should feel safe, relaxed, happy to be your true self. Is it because you want to be a perfect parent or a perfect step parent? Or is there pressure coming from your partner? Or is to actually just coming from you because sometimes when I've said this to my husband about my perception about something that happened? 

21:36

I didn't say I didn't mean it like that at all we do need to talk about because to me that sounds really sad that you would be so tense in your own home around you know, whether you when you say shit or whether you say we couldn't say that, you know half an hour later than we shouldn't. That shouldn't be shouldn't be on eggshells. 

21:58

And eggshells is the word I often I often get women saying like, you know, I feel like I'm treading on eggshells in my own home. And it's interesting when you talk about perception because so often and I know I've done it in the past, and the more I've learned the more I realised like we just attach so many meanings to things that are not there. 

22:21

That may not be true. 

22:23

I was chatting with a woman the other day and she was saying, You know what my step my steps on comes in and he just always looks so like Grumpy to be in our house and he's always so pissed off to be in our house and we work through it all and obviously then she kind of came to the conclusion that actually maybe he's tired or his, you know, hungry teenage boys you need to go there. Or his football team aren't doing very well. Someone at school you fancy doesn't fancy him back. All these other things, but I think because these women are so desperate to create a happy home and for the children to be happy. They're the second they're not it's like what have I done? They hate me you know all those things. So I'd say like anyone listening when you catch yourself creating a story about a situation just like pause pressure pressure, see pause but step back and interrogate that thought. Are they looking pitstop? Because they're pissed off to be in your house? Or is there something else going on? Or are they actually not even pissed off at all? They're just resting their face? Yeah. 

23:32

Absolutely. Isn't that interesting? Because it's complicated, isn't it? And they might be just Do you know through the teenage grunt and groan kind of stages as well, but I think you're right the idea of what am I attaching to this because I am trying to be a perfect parent, when actually, you know, this could be a multitude of sayings. So the other thing is sometimes relax around it. Let them talk in their own time sometimes. I often say when you pick up kids from school, whatever their age and start with how was your day hungry because I entered 12 It was nearly before and if my banana or sandwich or something, and just smile and hug. We also your mobile phones, please and just make them feel welcome and it's nice to see you the teenager or the seven year old coming home. 

24:21

Give them that space sometimes and don't think it's all about you. 

24:27

Sometimes it might not be aware of yourself, and it's not always you. And that's so true because I you know, I look at my nearly teenage son and I know that he gets home from school. He needs to sit on the sofa, have a little snack, something to drink, and play a little football game just to unwind and I I usually go how are you? And then I'll say Do you need a bit of downtime or do you fancy a chat and and so just a bit of downtime. But it's funny because that doesn't offend me at all. But I know for a lot of step mums, they would feel like they don't like me so it's it's like that reminder that they need space and that it's not about how they feel about you. I think that's yeah that's I think that's cool, isn't it? Suddenly, from what we've been discussing, it's actually not all about you. It's about and so you need to kind of get that back in balance. Sometimes it might be about you, but it's not always about you and to give kids that time to be themselves and just sometimes smile. It's nice to see you and have and then they want to get off and do whatever they want to do. That's not fun as well. And you know, using that time away from each other, give him a bit of space to unwind is absolutely fine, isn't it and then come back together a bit later if he wants to chat, but like you said, you don't take offence and you sort of ask questions you want to chat with you want to be on your own you want to do you know, chill out. They'll tell you, but I definitely think a lot of 100 is funny because he he'll sit and he'll face that will game for you know 1015 minutes and then he'll come up and he'll sit down and we'll sit at the table and he'll have his dinner and we'll chat and then it's lovely. And we have that interaction and we have that conversation. And I think it's it is hard of the step parents because obviously there's a myriad some people have the stepkids all the time. Some people only see them in the holidays and everything in between but quite often you don't know your step child, possibly as well as you do your biological child. That's an interesting thing because that's where I come in when I'm talking to parents like that as well is when I say create new interests or hobbies or moments. You know, do you go for hot chocolate? When you take your other child swimming and you have that time with them to do things amazing like I used to do with my own son actually driving up to football. Sometimes we talk deep and meaningful. Sometimes we talk about Chelsea because that was our team that doesn't listen to the radio. So I don't think I can talk to you anymore. We like talking them in our house. 

26:59

How are we got to get past I got it wasn't awful. 

27:05

But you know create those moments for connection and with your slipper. Don't force it so many people force it. You know if you happen to be interested in gardening or whatever it is I'm making it up bring them on out depends on their age and cause but showing interest in what they're interested in. If you're if you've got a teenager that interested in certain game or app or something, sit and ask them without being desperate. It's all about your tone, but it's like that game pitch. Can you show me how to do it? What do you do? Tell me why? Tell me about music. Why do you like that music. So you form your own connection. You can't force it, but you can let it slow burning casserole is the way I like to describe all of this. They blend it and instantly marvellous. You know sometimes kids take time to warm up. They've had some difficult times in the past with relationships with their parents and they'd see arguments or suddenly take your time as the longer bigger picture on it. And then be interested perhaps they liked doing art and craft and you'd go off up to London or somewhere wherever you live, and go to an exhibition. 

28:09

But find those moments of connection nurture them and water them like you do a plant you know don't water the weeds or to the plants that you blossom and bloom and grow together over time to slow the whole process down a bit. I love that and I mean you've just shared one of the reasons why I don't connect with the word blended because I feel it's too late final it's too perfect. It's an animal state. Whereas I really love the idea of like don't go to the weeds or to the flowers and just kind of let them grow in their own time. 

28:42

So important. So look, I've got a few questions which came in which I wondered if I could ask you say regarding teenagers. There's a question around kind of you touched on mobile phones earlier, but how do you give teenagers, young teenagers of 1314 15 privacy, but also sort of keep an eye on what they're up to online when it's balanced. Banning is again back to communication talking and teaching but not Sledgehammer being all kind of top down on it. This guiding them around the day just talking about them because they need to know about some of this stuff. I had a client come to see me I knew the child actually from years ago, and he'd gone by accident on to a porn site or something and it terrified him or frightened because very naughty and he felt guilty and didn't understand it. All the rest of it. So we don't need to talk and teach children about some of that because they won't see that and they don't want to but you can talk to teenagers also about body image and about bullying and anorexia and all these big topics that come up. And I think if you're relaxed and open to talking about these things, and you build the relationship again, around that, you know technology is a big problem for some people. But I think really, you've got to guide them and you can't just put your head in the sand. The next one up now is artificial intelligence and all of that slightly things but yeah, so they're, you know, technology generally it's marvellous, but it needs boundaries around it just like you would put boundaries around going to the park. You put your arm around your technology and and hold your ground on that and kids are motivated towards something or away from something. But it's the way you set it up the way you talk about it. They won't like you You are there to be their parent, not their friend. Now that must be complicated. You're a step parent, because you say oh my god, they don't like me. Well, you know, you're not supposed to be actually around some important stuff. You are there to talk and teach them and guide them and make sure they grow up safe. happy, confident adults. Yeah, so true. And we hear a lot of stories where actually the children are possibly like mums friends. So it's really common dynamic that you see mom's on her own mum and child's best friend goes to dad and stepmom to have boundaries and they hate them. So how would you advise the dad and the stepmom navigate that in that instance I had somebody specifically say to me, that teenagers have stepchildren, my teenage stepchildren think that any sort of discipline or boundaries is mental abuse and tell us that we're mentally abusing them. Well, they've got too many rights. Now in that sense, don't quote me, but you know what I mean? They can throw that around, to wind you up, but to press your buttons but your job, no matter, you know, is to actually help raise them, keep them safe, teach them how to self regulate, they will use it and you know, depending on the stages that they're going through their ages or their anger, they will throw it back at you but your job is not to be their friend. And the other thing you can never check is the octopus. The you can't change them. I'll be saying all sorts of things over and over kind of sharing with them. You can't really change that because if you do then you're gonna start around over there. So all you can do is stay in your own grounded place knowing that you are doing your best you thought about it and your intention is good. And don't try or criticise the other person because that really doesn't help anybody. It just sets up more confrontation with Charles who's stuck in the middle and doesn't quite know what to do. So yeah, I think I hope that answers that question. Yeah, I think really, really good advice. I've got another one which is about a younger child, actually. So how do you deal with a stepchild who can't play on their own? So this lady in particular she's got a weekend she sort of loses her husband because he plays with the children all the time. And, you know, she's like, I don't mind him playing with his children. But yeah, how do you how do you teach your child or how do you deal with a child who can't play on their own? 

32:53

Well, again, it's over time. What you do is often this technique on my blog, actually for a minute, and you sit down on the carpet and you have in your head you're playing with your child for a minute. So you get them start, or you get them cut, some kids can't start the game or they don't quite know the game and they need a bit of support. And then you sort of gradually get up and go and feel the potatoes or cut the grass or whatever you've got to do. But you've started them off. And that's quite a good technique sometimes and then realise that may only play for a little bit on their own for a while. 

33:28

You know, and then they'll come looking for it so that you build it up incrementally. It's sort of three or four minutes and I'd be five but also the other question I would be thinking about what's going on underneath? Are they actually insecure? Do they need reassurance that they want your time and attention? Are you always busy? Are you always on your phone? Because there might be that as well? Not knowing that the exact example of that there are a couple of ways of doing it. Yes. Build up a child's ability to play a lesson for a while and get involved with something but also then look underneath if they're constantly looking to you to play with them all the time. And can I just say I remember this a true story. My son and dad would they weren't football when he was playing away somewhere and I was at home with Molly. And I said should we play Ludo so we have a game with me. It's not much fun actually to be playing. 

34:19

A boring game though. I love it. 

34:22

But that was three of us. Anyway, we played and then then we said let's play again by the third Should we play 

34:33

and we've had a great time with play that I've got to go in, as I say, see the dog or something you know very boring and that children will always want so when you play Quick cricket in the garden like we did for hours sometimes they will always say just one more game. And you have to also be aware that yes, you will give them your time because I will say children spell love T I N E but also there is a boundary around how long you want to actually play. 

35:04

Play monopoly something so far everything's about balance. So find a balance that fits them and then don't just go well I'm so bored. Because that will damage the self esteem. You then you know go off and say I've got to do something else let into the bin or something's not terribly interesting. 

35:20

Answering that one's Yeah, I think kind of getting them started and showing them is a really good way to think about it. So another one. I'm sure you've had lots of experiences in this in your career. So lying. So this lady saying my stepson who's six years old has taken for lying about everything in capitals. And bold and it's driving us nuts. 

35:45

Right? Well, I've written about why kids lies again, have a look to my kids lying. It's it's an interesting one. Sometimes it's because they you have high expectations of them and they don't want to let you down so they'll lie about their achievement or what they've done or what they've done today. All of that. But also there's that thing about, you know, this ice cream or something all over the floor and they use that did you do that? No, I did. There's videos out there on YouTube. Now I didn't and that was the dog and they don't want to get to trouble sometimes there's a little bit of bad that they sort of lie about also someone said to me about make believe friend you know is that lie? They're talking about this make believe friend all the time is playing with them doing stuff with that's a phase as well and this I think one would that that's just an act of imagination. But again, I don't know all the circumstances but you do if the person starts to question just pause to ponder when you're washing up or driving in your car. What's underneath this? What's causing this? Is it something we created or we've created around it or is it just the phase or is the child seeking attention from you, the sooner you're busy or stressed or upset or something? So look at the core reason always try and get to the bottom, the root of what's the cause and you'll find it if you give yourself just a bit of time to think about it, and then you can address it. 

37:08

Yeah, really good. Thank you. 

37:12

We've talked a little bit about boundaries. everybody's favourite word moment. How do you set those household rules without feeling like rules the kids or is it okay if it feels like roles? You got to have some rules, society's got rules. Workplace has got rules. One of the key places I start when I'm coaching one to one with parents to get a piece of paper folded in half, or one sided right, what is acceptable? And on the other side, what isn't acceptable and then you get your partner to do the same thing. Then you have a cup of coffee or a glass of wine and you chat about them and usually you find that you are seeing it from the same sheet there might be in different order. But there are some basics that you know don't hit don't punch them. 

37:55

All of that stuff and then there are other ones that will what is acceptable. And also what we tend to do is notice when kids get things wrong, so this week only if nothing else would be listen to this podcast. Focus on what your kids get right and tell them because that is just a blossom when you that they bloom and actually if they could overhear talking to granny or somebody else on the phone about how marvellous they are, you know, they're so kind they worked so hard on their homework, they tied it up their toys, either, whatever it might be, my goodness, you've watched the child's self esteem grown because kids want to please you like them, they want you to love them just like you want to love them. And so look for the good in them and praise them and encourage them because often a discouraged child gets sort of naughty in that in that sense of the word. Because they feel discouraged. So encourage them. And I think that will help with some of those things. Yeah, and I'm actually going to pick your brain on a bit of advice for something, something I'm going through with my six year old at the moment in that I'm a big fan of giving praise and all of that stuff and he has so many beautiful qualities and will often come home with a little note saying how kind he's been or how he's, you know, just just a lovely, lovely, lovely little boys. They get a lot of praise from everybody. around him. However, when he's doing something that's not so good, and it's not terrible stuff. It was you know, this morning, it was just dancing. He wanted to dance and he didn't want to play at school uniform. And I'm looking at this kid with all this joy dancing thinking. What a wonderful feeling to have to be dancing on a Thursday morning. Before school but also looking at my watch thinking oh shoot, I need to get him out the door or we're gonna be late. 

39:41

So I you know, politely Oh, wonderful dancing. Come on, let's dance your way into your school uniform. And obviously, he doesn't and then I kind of go right Come on darling. We really need to get ready and then I have to sort of get a bit firmer. And then it gets really upsetting to me. I just feel my you think I'm so naughty. And then of course I feel like the worst parent in the world. I don't you can't be positive about them all the time, right? No, of course not. It's not realistic. Is it? Come on. So the other thing I wouldn't be saying because I will say listen to what they say to you, I suppose don't really hear because I'm still beneath that. So you don't have to beat yourself up. This is awareness parenting, you want to be a little bit better than you were last week that so you now wonder why he thinks that. So you actually maybe you're going to be late. I don't know if it's the right time. Or you come back later when the iron is cold. And you just or when you're cuddling up reading a story or something at bedtime. So yeah, what do you mean about that, that I'm always on to you and you know, I'm a naughty or bad whatever it is. Because he'll tell you. Oh, you know you're so then just a little bit without, you know, taking in the terapy I'm not bad inherently Cinderella's stepmother, you know, but just maybe think about it as a child from their perspective is telling you sometimes what they're feeling and they can't express it sophisticatedly but they'll say it in that sort of tone or that sort of way. So you know, you do have to get dressed now go to school, and you don't have to be horrible about that. But there are realities and restrictions around life gender, so find that balance. Does that help with that question? Yeah, that's super thank you and I will report back on how that goes. 

41:24

So there's another one that's come in about younger children in this case for in the bed at night in the parents bed at night. 

41:33

And this lady would sort of say actually, I feel a irritated because it wakes us up and then we get a bad night's sleep but also I feel uncomfortable because it's not my child and I don't feel comfortable being in a bed with them. So obviously the primary issue is like how do you stop the kids coming in your bed at night? Oh God, if I had a pound for every time people ask me that. 

41:55

Issue, sandals or something very common. 

41:59

Some parents like it some parents don't. Sometimes it's convenient because again through fade out oh my god, we've all got to get some kid because we sleep for three nights. Kids prefer it in cultures away from the UK as perfectly normal to co sleep with kids right up to eight and stuff like that. Coaches are different. It's all about what feels comfortable to you. Talk to your partner about, about the idea that you feel a bit uncomfortable because it's not your child. Or it's a boy and you know, and all the rest of it. I don't know. It's all about communication about that and then when you've decided between you because it's just between you and your family, what you want to do about it then you you know you let your child know about they said well you know you're four now seven or whatever. We want you to sleep in your own bed and stay there for the night and then you can do something cool. I've got this thing called the that was easy. peasy lemon squeezy button on my website. So when they do stay in their bed all night in the morning, they come in and they've questions and they love it and they laugh and they think it's so funny because you've recorded that was easy peasy lemon squeezy. And I don't know why but it's basically based on positive psychology around rewarding what you do want to see more of a cmp firm, stay consistent and let's face it, they don't always stand there the first night that you do it because they're testing you out. Another one from a company on my website is the sleep theories and it will come up with a technique where you reward the behaviour you do want to see and yes it is bribery you put a little present underneath from the sleep is they've stayed in their bed all night. So that pack of crayons or whatever it is you want to put and you do that for about probably two weeks because to change or be a real behaviour does take a bit of time. But if that's important to you so that you get a proper night's sleep and that you know they're not thrashing around throwing the duvet everywhere. That is quite a popular technique. And then she has children you know, she came to Red Pill when my kids were little, but she had to go off the cliff into sort of some other children to get the goes away. You know what I mean? Or he goes away whichever fairy you want. So that's another technique but yes, if it's important to you that you don't want that to happen then create so it doesn't without damaging everybody's self esteem. Yeah, I love that the sleep fairy they might have to go and visit my house as well actually. 

44:19

Okay, so one of the situations that we see quite a lot when families come together is different groups of siblings from different biological parents. So I've got a question around. How do you manage it when two groups of biological siblings kind of gang up on each other? 

44:39

Well, respect is the key energy of any good family, you know, lubricates the whole sort of system of relationships, in respect. And you've got to create that and to respect the way you respect your partner, the way you respect old people, the way you respect siblings, you know the way you respect your children or your stepchildren create an atmosphere of respect and then talk to teach your children about what that looks like. Also talk about I also write about the reading, as in WV, we the accurate family team, how we work together as a team now and if you're a step family, and we work together, as this new team, with our new traditions with our new ways of doing it, with respect for each other, respecting our similarities, respecting our differences, just and celebrating each other. How do we do that? And that could be in very small ways, on a Friday or something come together with a meal and celebrate what went well this week and talk about it. And you know, the more you talk about your successes, and we are this tree, the more you get that feeling of togetherness, yeah, I love that we did something once in our family, and we were initially my husband bought two girls to the marriage and I bought a son and we then had two more so with the three when we just had the three older ones, we did a thing that we wrote each wrote down something that we'd liked about everybody around the table on a little post it and put it in a jar, and then we passed it around and everybody would read it so they my son would pick one out and be like this is to x person. You know, I love the way that you're always thinking about other people. You know, it's just, I love it. And I say, what a nice thing to do with me. I mean, I've done that in classrooms actually, when we pass it on a PSHE lesson, and you just watch that person and you didn't know you felt like that. And that's such a positive, lovely thing to do and quite simple. Just takes a bit of thinking about that. So there'll be women listening, I know who'll be thinking. I can't think of anything nice to say. I think it really helps you go. There's something good and everybody like actually, what is there? 

46:47

Well, I did this I do have parents that I work with now. I'm special because and it's so powerful when people come and work with me and we're sitting around this table can see the family. And it was you know, the teenage son was having trouble. It's angry with the dad and all of that and he was coming at it a bit heavy handed and thanks. So yeah, they had to face each other and say, You are special because and it's a bit awkward to start with. 

47:18

And then to hear the Father say why the son was special and it came from such a wonderful place and no one kind of knew I kind of got to you. Because it was so powerful and the sun you could say anything about me. And then as we went around the table with the mom and the dad and the sister, and then the son had to say to the dad, this was particularly what we were working on. I mean it works all the way around the family, but then the son, the teenage son saying to the father what he loves, admired and respected. There were the three things love, respect and admire. And it's powerful. So it really built a bridge whereas they'd been a war between them so then they were building these bridges. Which I thought was fantastic. So anything like that. You want to try something like that. It's very powerful. And around respect. It's actually the theme of the next question. So how can step parent help the step child know that they're not trying to steal their parent, but actually you do still have to respect the step parent to talk about it. Talk about relationships, talk about that. Don't let that people don't sort of talk to you. They're going to catch the atmosphere or catch the moment you want to pass on all the value to talk about setting up in your head to even at small moments. And of course there's never one big conversation about sex or step parenting or you know, drugs. You never have one big conversation you have lots of little ones. So the same thing comes when you're talking like that you have lots of little conversations and raise the topic of it. You have these little conversations where you're passing on stuff, but not all in one go. Yeah, and the idea of having the little and often, almost I was thinking while you were talking underlying so much of what we're talking about how to improve things in your step family life to how to improve that relationship with your child. You know, you spoke earlier about find a little hobby that you both enjoy or find something that you both enjoy together. And I know you know I remember my eldest stepdaughter when she was younger and we were both finding things hard. I think that's fair to say. 

49:33

I felt quite anxious a lot of the time and I worked out if I went outside and did gardening. It just sort of calmed me down a bit and I was just, you know, and then they could have time with their dad and I was off doing something that was good for me. And she would come out and kind of be like oh, can I help you? And just that and we would sit and plant some fun together and you have a little chat about school but it was nothing heavy. 

49:57

So that little and often thing I think so, so important, and doing other things rather than the big conversation looking at each other. You know, all that. Let's have a heavy conversation. No, let's just plant some seeds or something. And we're chatting. Let's just dry and oh yeah, that's interesting, but I'm not looking at you too intensely and embarrassing yourself as you're a teenager. So yeah, just yeah, go with the moments and sometimes they become quite magical. When you didn't even think might work. Yeah, that's so true. And that's when you get those moments where you just think this is why I'm doing it. You know, this is why you met this wonderful, wonderful man. And in most cases, you did not see what was coming. You did not know what you were getting into. And it's so hard. So when when you find those moments, kind of hang on to them. And I absolutely loved what you said earlier about just being a little bit better than you were last week. 

50:54

Yeah, so we're only doing our best and you know, none of us have done it before really. So you know, just just that's what I like about it though. Just be a little bit better than you were last week and be mindful. And don't beat yourself up if you have a bad day. 

51:09

My mum said to me once when I was kind of stressing out about not being a good parent or a good step parent she just said to me, there's no such thing as a perfect parent, but there's a million ways to be a good one. There you go. I say something similar as opposed to the coach round that there's no such thing as a perfect parent just be a real one. 

51:30

You know, that's all you can be and do your best and if you get it wrong, okay, got it wrong and sometimes say that I'm really sorry about that. Well, I should have said that. And you know, forgiveness, your role modelling when you make mistakes, how to make it better. There's also all sorts of things you'll learn with raising the kids as well. And as my dad said to me once and I was astounded by this because I thought my dad everything is separate. So I've never done this brief. Yeah, yeah. 

51:58

So true. Like that permission to fail. 

52:03

As thank God society has moved on and accept the mother's make mistakes, but I do still feel that in the main we're not there with accepting step mum to making mistakes. It does feel like a kind of harsher punishment from society and also a harsher judgement. Possibly, you know, for all sorts of reasons that I'm sure we had extraordinarily fast. Is, is really valuable and isn't it? Because it's, it's getting rid of those myths and trying to make a small change, because it just takes time to make change. And by doing this kind of stuff, that's making the change, but is just about like you say, like having that space to go to know what we're all human. Sometimes we make massive mock ups and downs, we do things pretty well. That's okay. Learn from it. Move on. It's just called Being Human isn't. Exactly. Well, let's see. Thank you so much for your time. I love chatting to you is the time has just flown. So really appreciate your time and thank you so much for all that you have. 

53:06

Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure chatting to you over taco day actually 

53:13

wasn't so brilliant. I loved all her tips and wisdom and from personal experience. I can confirm that the sleep very works like a charm. It took four nights and for little guests from Poland and we were done. Sleep very headed to my friend's house to see her daughter and my husband and I now sleep in peace for the most part. Absolutely game changing. So so a personal thank you for me. 

53:41

Thank you also to all of you who have reviewed the podcast and shared it on your socials. I really really do appreciate all the social media shares and to those of you who rate them review and tell all your friends have spread the word about stepmom space, it means the absolute world to me. And it means the world to those women who find us and realise that everything they feel is Nolo. So if you haven't already then please do rate or review the podcast wherever you're listening and don't forget to spread the word by sharing on your socials. If you're in need of some support yourself, please do take a look at the one to one coaching packages or sign up to one of our workshops at stepmom space.com Where you also get to meet other women in the same boat. 

54:24

This is the last word in season four. So to keep up to date with everything that's going on at stem on space HQ do subscribe on the website or follow us on the socials at set on space. We'll be back in a few weeks of season five. So hit Subscribe on your podcast app to be notified when the new season launches. Till then an enormous thank you for me. Your support means the absolute world and I am so so grateful to each and every one of you who contributes to making the stepmom space the community is sending you lots of love and see you in a few weeks. Bye for now.