Stepmum Space

Episode 38: Stepmum & Bio Mum on the Ups and Downs of Their Relationship

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In this unique and heart-opening episode, Katie chats to Kaycie and Danielle — a Stepmum and a Bio Mum to the same little girl — about the journey from tension and mistrust to a peaceful, respectful friendship.

Kaycie shares honestly about what it felt like to watch another woman enter her daughter’s life, and the fears, worries and protective instincts that surfaced. Danielle speaks candidly about being the “new woman” and trying to build a connection in circumstances that were emotionally charged from the start.

Together, they explore:

  • the difficult early days of navigating loyalty binds and big emotions
  • what helped them move from defensiveness to open communication
  • why they choose to keep Dad out of most day-to-day conversations
  • what Bio Mums often feel but don’t say
  • how Stepmums can approach tricky dynamics with sensitivity and confidence
  • why time, boundaries and clarity can completely reshape a co-parenting relationship

This is a rare, insightful look into both sides of the Bio Mum–Stepmum dynamic — validating for stepmums and incredibly grounding for anyone trying to build healthier blended-family relationships.

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Keywords: stepmum and bio mum relationship, co-parenting with biomum, stepmum struggles, blended family communication, loyalty binds, stepmum boundaries, bio mum perspective, high conflict co-parenting, stepmum podcast

Sometimes, all a relationship needs is time, space and compassion — and this conversation shows just how much can change.

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Katie South:

Hello, I'm Katie and this is Stepmum Space, the judgment free zone where we talk candidly about the fairy tales and scary tales of Stepmum life. So whether you've been a Stepmum for years, you're just starting out, or you want to understand the Stepmum in your life a little bit better, this is the place for you. So welcome everybody to episode 38. I cannot believe we've made 38 episodes of a podcast. I so appreciate those of you who've been brave enough to get in touch and share your story. It takes an awful lot of courage to speak out, but I so passionately believe that shame dies when we share our stories in safe places like Stepmom's face. And I know it helps both those who come on the podcast and also those who listen. So look, if you're thinking about getting in touch to share your story, I would love to hear from you. Those of you who follow my Instagram will know that we've been away this week on holiday, and the Eagle-Eyed may have noticed we are only with two of the five children in our family. Holidays can be such a tricky time for step families, and as the holiday plans for the summer are being made, I would love to have some conversations on the show about how you guys manage the summer holidays. The good, the bad and the ugly. So if you'd like to chat about that, do drop me a message on the socials at Stepmum Space. Now, today we have not one, not two, but three guests. Danielle got in touch with me some time ago, offering to share her stepmum story, along with her stepdaughter's bio mum, Casey. So today you'll be hearing from both of them about their relationship, and you'll also have some little interspersions from Olivia, the little girl at the centre of the family who was with her mum during our recording. I hope you enjoy the episode. Welcome Danielle. Thanks for joining me this afternoon. Thank you. Nice to meet you as well. How are you doing?

Danielle:

Good, thank you. Yeah.

Katie South:

So, look, your story is so interesting, and I think people are gonna absolutely love this episode. So, do you want to share a little bit about why you got in touch with me in the first place?

Danielle:

I mean, I've seen your posts and I've listened to your podcasts, and it's really interesting to see the different dynamics. I'm on like different Facebook pages for stepmums and things like that, and really I thought, oh wow, mine and Casey's relationship is really like not normal.

Katie South:

And Casey's your stepdaughter's mum.

Danielle:

Yeah, she is, yeah. Because we do get on really well, um, and it's really interesting to see just the comments and the issues that you know other people are going through, and I understand that every situation is different, but yeah, I just thought I'd reach out because we do get comments quite a lot on how one, how we communicate with each other, two people think our relationship is weird, and and not everyone approves of it. I mean, Casey have spoken about it, and we are on the same page, so it's not because sometimes I thought, oh god, am I maybe being too much or too interfering? Um, and I do speak Casey about that, but she's been great in the respect of the communication, so yeah. I just thought, you know, if we're being praised for how we're making our relationship work to a better Olivia, then other people maybe might learn from that.

Katie South:

Danielle, that makes a lot of sense, and it sounds like you've got such a good relationship, and we've actually got Casey as well on the call. So hi Casey, thank you ever so much for joining us to chat this through. It's gonna be a fascinating listen.

Kaycie:

The difficult thing is, like Dan said, so many people have their opinions, and I think that's half the problem, is people's opinions sometimes get in the way of holding a positive relationship with somebody, and your mindset of being able to just ignore what other people are saying is really important. Myself and Dan included, if we listen to what other people thought too much, then we wouldn't have the relationship that we should have, and it would be very different because people don't think that we should be communicating the way we do. People think we're too friendly with one another, and that we shouldn't have anything to do with one another.

Katie South:

Hello, Olivia. We've got Olivia on the show. So have you guys always got on so well? No, so Danielle, tell me about how you first came to be a stepmum.

Danielle:

Well, I've actually been married before, and I was a step mum to another little boy. That relationship probably taught me a lot on how to now navigate and communicate with Casey. It wasn't easy. The first relationship I had with my ex-husband's partners, it was hard. She made it really, really difficult. And the age gap between me and her was quite big. So I felt like at times I was very belittled and not made to be felt good enough. Um, and it's funny, only now she messages seeing me with Olivia and calls me the most amazing stepmum. So it's really interesting to see the difference in change of opinion now, kind of not in her child's life. That gave me a load of experience. I mean, like we said, me and Casey didn't get on to begin with. I mean, I don't expect most people do. So me and my partner have a long history. I met him when I was 14, he's been a family friend, and I was with him for six years, a long time ago. We split, I got married. He obviously met Casey and had Olivia. And I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. Things maybe shouldn't have happened how they should have done at the beginning. Me and Casey have spoken about that, and I won't go too much in detail because obviously, you know, that's personal, but she I always always say, or and I always say I say it to everyone, hands down, she's taken everything on the chin and she's kind of accepted everything and taken it in her stride, even at her lowest times and her lowest moments. And I don't know whether I would have been as accepting and as easy as she has been, maybe. I I'll hold my hands up to that.

Katie South:

So, can we assume that you and your partner were the reason that Casey's relationship ended with her partner?

Danielle:

Yeah, yeah. And I think, I mean, when I first met Olivia again, I I think I actually I think it was Christmas, Casey. Tell me if I'm wrong, but I think it was Christmas and I FaceTimed her because we'd been communicating, you know, and I FaceTimed her, and when I'd split, I'd had to, and he split from Casey, we had to move into his mum's, and obviously he was gonna have Olivia, so there was gonna come a point where I was gonna meet her maybe sooner than Casey wanted. So I was honest with her. I think she was upset if I remember rightly. Yeah, it was Christmas, and I think my partner was gonna have Olivia, and obviously I was living in the house, and that she was coming to. So we had that conversation, and you know, Casey put in some ground rules to begin with, and I took those on the chin. And then the day I met her, Casey actually gave me a hug, which took me back a little bit, which was probably really difficult for her to do at the time because she probably wanted to like throttle me, but she didn't. She, you know, I mean, she gave me a hug and then she dropped live off and then she went. And then, yeah, that's that's just obviously when it started to materialize, I suppose.

Katie South:

Gosh, so what about you, Casey? How was it for you in the beginning? You when you're you realised that there was another woman involved in your relationship breakdown, and then you had to accept that that Danielle was going to be around your child?

Kaycie:

It was really difficult, really difficult. And I for a long time I was at a very, very low point in my life. I struggled a lot mentally with everything that was going on, but I was very fortunate that I lived with my parents, so the prospect of being a single parent quite abruptly, should I say, and unexpectedly, I was lucky that I had a lot of physical and emotional support. They constantly reminded me that it was really important to ensure that despite everything that had happened to me personally, I put Olivia first and that I made her my main focus, and I had to separate my personal feelings from Olivia and her relationship with her dad, and I've done that the whole time to be honest.

Katie South:

So it sounds like you were doing a really good job in really difficult circumstances of putting Olivia first, and it must have been really, really difficult. How did you find that strength in yourself when you were triggered to be able to still remain positive?

Kaycie:

I don't know, if I'm honest, I don't know where I found the strength from because obviously it's not a situation that I'd ever been in before. Didn't know how to navigate things, didn't know which was the best way about going about things. I had to play I ear all the time. So it was just a case of constantly just thinking to myself, cry at night when you're on your own, don't let her see that anything is wrong, that's anything's upset you or impacting you. And if what you do in a moment is going to impact her and the repercussions are going to impact her, don't go about it that way. Think about it first. And I still do that now. I still do that now.

Katie South:

That's so good, and it's obviously had a really positive effect on your daughter. So, Danielle, back to you. You're in your new relationship with someone who you've already been in your relationship with. So I guess that part's not that new, but obviously he's got a daughter now. How old was Olivia when you guys got together?

Danielle:

She was just turning two, and she is five this year.

Katie South:

So talk us through the early days of that relationship with her and how things were with you and her mum.

Danielle:

With me and Liv, we've always got on, we've always had a good relationship. If you met Liv, she loves everyone. She's joyful and just loves being in people's company. So I've always had a good relationship with Liv. Obviously, with Casey, to begin with, adjusting to my partner having a child was hard. There was a bit of guilt inside of me and doubt of wondering if he ever wanted to go back and whether I'd broken up the family and was I enough because he'd left Casey and left his home with his child to be with me. It was kind I I always felt a little bit guilty at the beginning. So yeah, that was hard. And I suppose a bit of jealousy come into it when they were communicating it to begin with, and because I didn't know whether it was about Olivia or whether it was about their relationship. I could never differentiate the two, but as it's gone on, shall I say, it I obviously have no worries at all. But at the time, I think there's always a bit of doubt and guilt and jealousy and mixed emotions of whether you've done the right thing.

Katie South:

So it's amazing, Casey, that you were able to be so positive and remain so focused on your daughter. And I think there's a lot of people he could learn a lot of lessons from you. How were things in the early days between you and Danielle and your relationship as sort of mum and stepmum?

Kaycie:

They weren't easy at all. It was it was really difficult because I knew that Olivia's dad had made a decision that he wanted to be with Danielle, and that was out of my hands, and there was nothing I could do about that, and I had to move on from that side of things. But I also knew that Danielle was forming a relationship with Olivia, and Olivia was forming a bond with her, and I had to try and keep things as positive as possible for Olivia's sake, but again, like she says, that there was a lot of I knew that there was a lot of jealousy and worry in terms of me being in contact with Sam. And I'm not gonna lie, back then I couldn't have given two toots how Danielle felt. I I couldn't have cared less whether she felt jealous or if guilty, because I would sit there and say, Good, I'm hope she does because of the situation that we were in. That is very different now. It has taken a lot of time, and I don't I know we've both both of us have had to overcome emotions and feelings in one way or another over the situation and and Olivia for different reasons, and I don't want to say that because of how I've handled the situation, it's it I'm the reason for it being as positive as it is because that's not the case because we've both contributed to the positive relationship. But I do think I am gonna say it, if I hadn't put on a brave face and I hadn't thought about how I was managing situations and I had gone in gung-ho and said things that I wanted to say and responded and reacted to things in the way that I wanted to in the moment, as opposed to how I actually did respond, then things would have not been like they are and they would have got worse because in the moment I would say one thing to Danielle in a text message, but I wasn't necessarily thinking or feeling the same thing. As I say, it's that's not the case anymore because our relationship has grown and it's been a fair few years now. But initially it went smoothly because I lied my way through it, maybe to myself as well. That if I just went through the motions, how typically they should go, then everything would be fine.

Katie South:

And it's funny you talk about how you can kind of you said lie to yourself, and I talk with a lot of the women I work with about just kind of changing your mindset and how you think about things, and I think what you're saying, Casey, such an amazing example, and I can only offer you every bit of admiration I have for being able to maintain your composure in those situations because I think as Danielle said earlier, and I I would echo, it must be really, really difficult. I wonder what it was like for you, Danielle, on the other side. Like there's the the jealousy, and seemingly Casey was being fairly calm with you.

Danielle:

Yes, no, she was. I have no doubt that behind closed doors it was not the case, and I have said it from day one. I don't know whether I would have reacted the way she has um and held herself and dealt with certain situations. I would say, you know, 80% of it was her at the beginning, just maybe biting her lip and letting things form naturally.

Katie South:

And Casey, what was the hardest thing for you? Because you were dealing with a relationship breakdown and immediately sharing your daughter at the same time.

Kaycie:

If I'm honest with you, because I was getting so much support from family and friends in terms of the relationship breakdown, I had no choice but to just get on with things as if it hadn't happened because there was a lot happening at the same time. I had Liv and Uni, and my dad was really poorly, and there was so much going on at the same time, I kind of had no choice but to get on. But that meant that the prospect of sharing Liv and sharing my time with her more difficult because I noticed more when she wasn't around because she wasn't there as a distraction for me. I think as well, I never wanted or expected my relationship to end, so I never wanted, knew, or expected to have to share her, and then one minute she's ours, and we're a family, and then the next minute she's mine but his and Danielle's and everyone else's as well, and I have to split my time with her, and it was all very sudden. I found that really difficult, and Danielle will say that I found that difficult because I was openly honest about how difficult I found that, and I used to cry when I dropped her off, and I used to constantly text her and Sam throughout the day to check to make sure that she was okay and constantly asking, Oh, has she had this? Does she need this? Is she okay? And I hated her going, absolutely hated it. I used to struggle sleep in the night before because I had massive anxiety over it, but then time is it time makes things better, doesn't it?

Katie South:

And what was it you were particularly anxious about?

Kaycie:

Obviously, I didn't know Danielle from Adam, I'd never met her before, and I knew she didn't have children of her own. How do I say this without not saying it? Even though I became a single parent very quickly, not much in terms of my life changed in that area because it's really hard to say it without sounding horrible towards her dad, because he is a brilliant dad, so it's I'm gonna be honest, he's a better dad now than he was when um me and him were together, let's put it that way. He didn't really do much on the parenting front, so I was very anxious that her needs were being met when she was with Danielle and her dad, because he wouldn't do those things at home normally. So it was thrown on him to have to do these things, or thrown on Danielle to have to do these things, which she hadn't done before. So I was worried that something wasn't going to be done the way I necessarily would do it. Not that I didn't trust them with her, because I did, I didn't at any point think that she wasn't safe with them. It was the smaller things, um, like the bathing and the nappy changes, and making sure, because at the time she had um a milk intolerance and making sure she didn't eat the wrong things or drink the wrong things or too much or something, or nap for too long or not long enough, and I was worrying that her day would be more negative than positive for her at that time.

Katie South:

Yeah, and it's funny because you a lot of the time you'll hear that the biological mothers in a lot of communication, and people who aren't biological mothers will be like, Why can't they just leave them to it? But then you know, as a biological mother, you just want to check that they're all right and that they've got everything they need. And you know, like you say, in your heart, you know they're with their dad, they're not gonna come to harm, but there's still this instinct, and it's really, really, really hard to switch off. And I I share my first son with his dad, who's my ex. So I I do totally understand what you mean about leaving leaving your child, it's painful, it's difficult. And I guess, Danielle, for you at that time, I've got to ask the question that everyone's gonna be wondering were you picking up the slack for Olivia's dad?

Danielle:

Um, I think I naturally I'm I've got four sisters and one brother, I'm the oldest, so I just use my initiative, and yeah, and I think to this day I still do. Liv will come to me, she will ask for me. I do a lot of things with her, and I just think that's maybe stemmed from the beginning. So, yeah, I would agree.

Katie South:

Obviously, in the early days it was really tricky. Now, you guys, three years down the line, get on well. What was the turning point?

Danielle:

I don't know what Casey's thought on this is, but I will tell you when I think it switched for me. And it was when I put something on Facebook, I think, and my friend had commented something maybe that stirred the pot. As soon as she had commented, I I messaged Casey and I said, look, please don't read into that. However, obviously, naturally, Casey went to my partner who had given the permission, look, if you're not happy with anything, please talk to me. And she did. And he got the ump about it. Well, what do you you know, what do you want me to do about it? I can't do this. Why you got Danielle on Facebook? I kind of spoke to Casey after that and said, You're you're not gonna get the response from him that you want, even though he says it, you're not gonna get it. You've got a problem in future, just come to me and I'll I will be honest with you and you be honest with me. And I think from that point, we'd kind of just then gone to each other if we've had problems or if we felt uncomfortable, or even just an arrangement, you know, me and Casey to make the arrangements with Olivia, not necessarily because my partner's incapable, we just are more switched on and uh are more organised, it just works that way. So I think for me that was the turning point, and I want to actually say that that maybe was a year into it. And what about you, Casey?

Katie South:

How did you feel about Danielle?

Kaycie:

I understand where Dan is I I can recall that conversation and everything in my brain, like it was yesterday, and she is right in saying that after us having that discussion that certain things only needed to be spoken about between us, that it was easier to not include my ex Olivia's dad in the conversations because it just meant there was too many people involved, that it was easier just to discuss things between us, that it made things easier because that's what we did from there on out, and we were able to just have clean and concise conversations, and there was never any yeah but, no, but and people putting two pence in and people's opinions getting in the way, and so on and so forth. At that stage, things definitely did get easier. I'm gonna be really honest now, and I don't even think Daniel, I don't even think I've said this to Danielle, and it's not because of for any other reason, other than it's just not really crossed my mind to mention it. But I think the time for me when I really started to feel contentment over the relationship that I had with Danielle and feeling relaxed about it all was actually when I met somebody myself else myself and entered a new relationship myself. When things started to get serious between him and I, and then realised how I wanted him to be part of Olivia's life and what I would want for Olivia with him. But then it made me realise if I'm expecting and wanting that for my partner, then I have to let my guard down a little bit and understand and respect Danielle as her dad's partner because it shouldn't be that my partner has the respect from them and so on, and I don't give Danielle as Olivia's dad's partner and step mum the respect and someone that she deserves. And I kind of had a little moment where I switched and I thought she does a lot more than it is required of her because she does a lot of things that typically in these situations the dad would do, but he doesn't she does it, and I thought to myself it could be worse, the situation could be worse in terms of the relationship with her and the circumstances for Olivia. I've heard horror stories, so in a sense, I realised I was lucky, and I kind of started going down a new path of my own, and my mental health got better. That all had a big impact on how I personally felt towards Danielle.

Katie South:

We do hear a lot actually that when the mum meets somebody, things do really change. And I think a lot of the time when you're a biological mum and you become a step-mum. I know in my situation, when I became a step-mum, I was also used to sharing my own biological child, so I knew I didn't want to kind of swoop in and be my stepkid's mum. I just wanted to have somewhere that they could be happy. What you're saying makes complete sense. Um, and it's lovely to hear that you're in a better space now. Danielle, from your side, how do you feel now in terms of your relationship and your place in Olivia's life?

Danielle:

Well, I mean, with the relationship with me and Casey, I mean, I'm at I'm at peace and I'm I'm happy where we are. Sometimes I might not even tell Casey about Olivia, it might be about something that I know she'd like. And I think that that makes me at peace to know that we can have other conversations, not necessarily about the child that we would normally communicate. Now we can have other conversations, that makes me happy. That just makes my life a lot easier and less anxious. And I mean, where I am with Liv, I mean, me and Liv are really close, we've got a great relationship. I know she looks forward to seeing me. If I want children, I need IVF. So I know that if I don't have kids and Liv's the only thing that I'm gonna have, I'm I I'm okay with that because we've got such a good relationship. That also makes me happy.

Katie South:

That's really nice. And how do you feel now, Casey, about sharing Live?

Kaycie:

Um, I don't mind it. They want extra weekends, they can have extra weekends. I know Danielle and her dad are more than capable to have her, and I have a very, very hectically busy life struggling a lot of plates and a few days of freedom to get stuff done here and there. I wouldn't mind it. I don't have the same worries and anxieties now as I used to. Don't get me wrong, there are days that I miss her because her dad may not see it the same way, but I don't see a lot of her in the week. I do miss her sometimes, but I have no problems with sharing her, so to speak, because actually, if I'm honest, I don't feel like I share her, I share time, but I don't have to share her love or her respect or appreciation for me as her mum. She just has extra to give Danielle, she's not splitting the love and someone that she has for me, and she's just got extra love that she's giving out. So I don't necessarily feel like I'm having to share her in any way other than just having a couple of days of freedom here and there, which any mother will know eventually is like gold dust.

Katie South:

I love that. What a gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous way of looking at it. I think your mindset speaks volumes for how you've been able to manage this situation. So, yeah, I mean it's absolutely fantastic. There'll be a lot of step-mums listening to this who are thinking, oh god, I wish Casey was my bio mum. Have you got any advice for stepmums who are dealing with a tricky bio mum on how to navigate it?

Kaycie:

I think my only advice for other step parents would be just remember that as much as you want that person to be a certain way with you and accept that you're in the child's life and so on and so forth. That there is a lot of hurt and worry and anxiety and stress that comes alongside someone entering your child's life, and it takes time for it to get easier and better, it takes a lot of time. It's been nearly three years since Danielle became part of Olivia's life, and it's only been over the past seven or eight months that I've been at complete peace with everything. It took me a long time to accept Danielle, not necessarily accept is the wrong way to put it, because I accepted that she was part of Olivia's life very early on. It took a long time for me to let my guard down and let Danielle in as a person and not just as somebody that was part of Olivia's life. So just take a step back and breathe because the biological parent will get there eventually. Just give them time, don't push them too much either. Sometimes I found that Dan don't get offended by this. Sometimes I felt like that Dan was trying too hard, sometimes to tease me, so to speak, like make sure that I was happy with everything, and it used to frustrate me. I used to think to myself, you have to learn on your own accord, you have to just get on with it yourself. I shouldn't be spoon feeding you. If you want to be part of her life, then you've got to learn. I think that a piece of advice would be as a step parent, if you are going to be part of a child's life, if you want to be part of a child's life, you have to learn that child in your own way, the way that suits the both of you, because Sam would say this now, and I would say this now. The way I do things is very different to the way Danielle and her dad does things. So, me giving advice and telling them what I think is best is okay for me and at home, but it's not necessarily the case for them.

Katie South:

And Danielle, from your side, what have you learnt about forming a good relationship with your stepchild's mum that you think would be useful to other people listening?

Danielle:

Not to take everything personally, it's it's not always easy. And you do, I feel like there is all of a sudden a responsibility that you have this child and you've got to step up in some way, but don't take everything personally. It's taken me a long time not to feel judged and not take things to heart, like Casey said, like. As the step parent, you know, you you have to step up and learn on your own. I think from a step parent, if you feel like maybe you are trying too hard or you are trying to communicate with the bio parent a bit more, it's purely because it's it's worry, and you don't want the the uh the bio mum to feel that you're not you're not good enough and you're you're not ready for the job, if that makes sense, because there's no manual to say this is how you should be and this is what you should do. So be patient, breathe, um, and don't take everything personally, and it will all come together, it will, whether it takes three years, it's taken my mum and dad, you know, 10 years to get to the point, you know, where he can socialise at Christmas with us all with my stepdad and and do birthday parties, it takes time, but it's all about Olivia, and it always has been about Olivia in our case. That uh that child should always be number one, and if you put that child first, nothing else matters, nothing else.

Kaycie:

I think in our circumstances as well, people have to be mindful that our circumstances were very different. It wasn't simply just the case of her dad and I separating, and then in time, Danielle coming into Olivia's life and me having to accept her as a stepparent. So, where Dana said about learning to not take things personally, for her, it was probably amplified ten times more than it may well have been in normal circumstances with a stepparent coming in, because it wasn't just a case of her having to manage the backlash that she got from me and my family as the new person in Olivia's life, it was also because of the circumstances around the ending of my relationship. So she had a lot to not say personally, so it was probably 10 times more difficult for her than somebody else. I've always lived that life as well. Whatever I do, she is gonna learn from. She is with me so much and she's learning from me every day. If I act a certain way, she will copy it and grow to have the same mindset, and I don't want that for her. So if I don't if I don't teach her how to positively respond to things in life, she's never going to learn that skill. And this was a prime example of not necessarily responding to it positively, but responding to it in a way different than you would want to in the moment.

Katie South:

Yeah, and I think you know, we're all trying and we're all doing our best, and step-parenting, biological parenting, relationships, breaking up, new relationships, looking back, all of that is so heavy with emotion that it's really hard sometimes to step back from like what you're actually feeling in that moment and go, okay, right, I feel like this, but what am I gonna do with that? And I think what you've done an amazing job is being able to take that emotion and do something in the moment that's gonna be positive for your daughter, and it's really lovely to see how your relationship is now. You talked at the beginning about how a lot of people think your relationship's weird or don't think you should be that close. Tell me a little bit more about that.

Danielle:

Yeah, I mean, I will elaborate on that. I think because I maybe hear it more than Casey does. I mean, other than that, she might not have told me, but I do hear it a lot more. Um, I think people feel like maybe Casey's doing it to be manipulative or to try and get in my head. I've never felt that, and I've been told multiple times, get her off Facebook. You don't need her on Facebook boundaries, boundaries, don't let her in your house. You can't live your life like that. If I want to have her on Facebook, I will have her on Facebook and no one's gonna tell me otherwise. We share photos of Olivia on there. It's nice to see what she's doing with Casey when I'm not with her. Casey likes to see what she's doing when she's with me, so why not share that? As regards to not letting her in the house, I would be devastated knowing that Liv felt that she couldn't bring her mum into my house. It's like we have birthday parties together. Like Casey has said, why would we do two separate and not include each other? We're all there for Olivia, and it's and you know, she really does. Maybe not so much before, but now I've noticed it. You know, she smiles, like she cuddles, cuddles us all. Um when we're at birthday, but she looks happy. I think, like at the beginning, Casey said it's people's opinions that could have damaged our relationship, but where we've not allowed that to happen, look at us now.

Katie South:

Yeah, I think it's gorgeous. It's really, really great that you guys have been able to come through this and both be happy out on the other side and with a happy little girl. I do wonder how much of an easy ride the dad in this has had because it sounds like it's been you ladies stepping up to the plate on everything.

Danielle:

Yeah, I'll say a little bit, maybe Casey, because I know Casey has had a different uh view on communication with Liv's dad, and it's definitely not been plain sailing with either of them. So I'm gonna let her tell her that side. I think he has been lucky that I've stepped up from day one. He has been told on numerous occasions you wouldn't find anyone else that would love your child like Danielle does, and you're lucky that she steps up willingly, and there's no there's no moaning, and I I just do it because I care and I love and I want the best for her. Casey, I'm gonna let you elaborate on your relationship with my partner because you definitely have a different take on that.

Kaycie:

Yeah. Um so obviously, my relationship ended the way it did, and that obviously straight away put a spanner in the works in terms of a relationship between us in any way, and I found it incredibly difficult to communicate with him because I didn't want to. I was having to remain in contact and talk every day and video call and see the face every day of somebody that had absolutely crushed my heart, and I found it really difficult for a very, very long time, and it meant that I was very stern with him, I was very cold. I tried in every way I could to not communicate with him if I didn't have to. I did it the least amount I possibly could, but then I was also mindful of am I getting in the way of his relationship with Olivia if I'm like this, or do I need to communicate more? But I really don't want to because I can't hate his guts. So for me, that's probably one of the reasons why Danielle and I formed the relationship we did because it was easier for me, not completely easier, but easier than it was to communicate with him. It was easier to communicate with her because then I didn't have to talk to him and I could kind of cut him off in a way. Um, as time's gone on, he video calls to see Olivia and he will ask me questions about her or things over FaceTime, and I will sit and have a conversation with him about those things, and we are pleasant with one another. When we see each other in person at pick up and drop off, we're fine, but I will not be skipping down the road or braiding his hair if I had to choose which one I was gonna do that with, it would be Danielle. But again, that is because of my personal feelings to a situation that is separate from Olivia because, regardless of what has happened, I will never ever stop him having a relationship with Olivia, and I will do everything and anything I can to make sure that she does have that relationship. It was just very hard for a very long time to do that.

Katie South:

Yeah, I can see that. Well, look, ladies, thank you so much for giving us your time today, and you're honest, it has been a brilliant, brilliant chat, and I hope that those ladies listening have got something out of it. So thank you so much for your time. Thank you. Thank you. What a story! I am hugely grateful to Casey and Danielle for getting in touch with me and for their candour in that conversation. I hope that having the insight of a bio mum helps some of you understand things from both sides. There's a lot of vitriol between step mums and bio mums in so many cases, and I'm sure we could all benefit from being a bit more compassionate to one another. It's not always easy, believe me, I get it, but step families are rarely easy for anyone who's part of them. If you're feeling a bit isolated, do use the forum at stepmumspace.com to reach out to other women for support, conversation, and friendship. Or of course, you can join our Facebook group at Stepmum Space. If you've enjoyed this episode or any other, please do rate or review the podcast wherever you're listening, and don't forget to spread the word by sharing on your socials. I'll be back next week with another new story. See you next time!

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Katie South

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