Episode 43:“My In-Laws Were Toxic — I Didn’t Want My Life to Be Like This”

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Helena’s story looked like it was going to be one of the rare smooth ones. She and her partner were aligned. His ex was respectful. The stepkids liked her. Everything pointed toward a calm, harmonious future.

But the real challenge came from somewhere she didn’t expect — his family.

In this powerful episode, Katie speaks with Helena about the emotional fallout of dealing with in-laws who made her feel unwelcome, undermined, and unsafe. Despite doing everything “right,” Helena found herself at the centre of tension that began to damage her confidence, her wellbeing and her relationship. Eventually, she made the incredibly difficult decision to cut contact in order to protect her peace.

Together, Katie and Helena explore:

• what it feels like when the in-laws become the biggest source of stress
• the emotional toll of being criticised, excluded or talked about
• why being loved by the stepkids isn’t always enough to feel secure
• how relationship dynamics shift when extended family won’t respect boundaries
• how to protect your mental health when others refuse to change
• the courage it takes to choose yourself — even if it means stepping away

This episode is for any stepmum who has ever felt judged, sidelined, or overwhelmed by extended family politics. Helena’s story is a validating reminder that you’re allowed to set limits — and that sometimes protecting your peace requires bold, uncomfortable decisions.

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Keywords: toxic in-laws, stepmum excluded, struggling stepmum, stepfamily boundaries, stepmum mental health, extended family conflict, feeling unwelcome as a stepmum, protecting your peace, blended family stress, stepmum podcast

You’re not selfish for protecting your peace — you’re surviving, and you deserve better.

Transcript

Katie South: 0:01

Hello, I'm Katie, and this is Stepmum Space, the judgment-free zone, where we talk candidly about the fairy tales and scary tales of Stepmum Life. So whether you've been a Stepmum for years, you're just starting out, or you want to understand the Stepmum in your life a little bit better, this is the place for you. So, regular listeners will know that Stepmum Space has been nominated in the British Podcast Awards. Yep! So if you haven't already done so, please take two minutes out of your very busy day to head to www.brishpodcastawards.com forward slash voting and enter Stepmum Space. You'll then just have to confirm via the link they'll send you to your email, and honestly, it just takes a couple of minutes and I would really appreciate it. I feel so so privileged to be able to share so many of your stories and help you see that as stepmums you are not alone with some of what you go through. I had a message last week from Dan. Now Dan's the dad of a 14-year-old girl and an eight-year-old boy, and he wrote to me, Hi Katie, thank you so so so much in Capitals to you and all your guests on Stepmum Space. Through listening to the stories, I've been able to understand all the things my wife has been trying to share with me for the last four years. It's so difficult when it involves your own children. But having heard all these stories, I can finally empathise with her and how hard it is to be in this role. It's so lovely to have that message drop into my inbox. I love hearing from you all, and it's especially lovely to hear when we're helping get messages through to people that haven't really been able to empathise with things from our side of the fence for some time. So I really, really appreciate you getting in touch, Dan. Growth is a continuous journey, and I'm always so inspired by the men and women who invest in their personal growth. I know there are lots of Stepmums out there whose partners listen, so if that's you, then a big shout out to you. There's still some space on the Stepmum Space workshop in September, so if you want to make positive changes to your life, feel less anxious and meet other women who really understand what this journey is like, then head to www.stepmumspace.com forward slash workshops or DM me to hold your space. Now, when I heard from today's guest, I wasn't sure if what I was reading was real. The story seemed so unbelievable, but as with all my guests, this lady you'll hear from today has been on a real, real rough journey. A different one to many you'll hear on this show, but a tricky road nonetheless. Her name is Helena, and I'll hand over to her to tell her story. So, Helena, welcome. Thanks for joining me today.

Helena: 2:48

Hi, thanks so much.

Katie South: 2:49

How are you doing?

Helena: 2:51

Yeah, really well, just off the back of a uh quiet house weekend, so I am refreshed and ready for the week, which is unusual.

Katie South: 3:00

Amazing, and uh I can see you smiling there and looking happy. So it's obviously been a good, it's obviously been a good one. Um so Helena, I'm so looking forward to this conversation with you. Um, I just sort of said to you before we started recording, I'd got my notebook out and um looked at the notes I made the first time we spoke and kind of thought, wow, this is a really interesting story. So I'm really, really looking forward to digging into it and I'm really grateful to you for sharing with us. So, why don't you kind of kick us off by just telling us a little bit about how you met your husband and what things were like in the beginning?

Helena: 3:37

So we met on a dated app. As soon as we met, he was pretty clear straight away that he had children, that he had two daughters. We hit it off pretty immediately and you know got into a relationship quite quickly, actually. But we made a decision early doors that obviously we wouldn't involve the children, wouldn't meet the children for quite some time. And I think probably with a lot of stepmums, I just didn't it it wasn't really real, the children element at all at that point. It was just yes, he's got kids, and I like kids. I've never wanted them myself, but I like them and I get on with them great. But yeah, but it definitely wasn't real.

Katie South: 4:12

It really is like that, isn't it? Because it's like everything. If you don't have children, and actually, even if you do have children, you think you'll know what it will be like. I had an idea. I had a three-year-old, I thought I had an idea what it would be like. Fuck me, I was wrong. Like um, so tell me, how old were the girls when you first met them?

Helena: 4:32

They were just under three, and then that would make the other one five.

Katie South: 4:37

Oh, okay. So really young.

Helena: 4:40

Yeah, really young.

Katie South: 4:41

And what did you know about kind of your husband's separation at that point?

Helena: 4:45

Just that they got together really young, they've had children really young, and they just weren't, you know, they just hadn't worked out, they just weren't um compatible people, and that was about it. But that at that point it was sold to me. Let's say that it was very amicable, they've got a really good thing going on, and you know, everything's hunky-dory at that point, according to him.

Katie South: 5:06

Oh gosh, so they take it it maybe transpired to not be quite so.

Helena: 5:11

Yeah, I mean, it really has unraveled to be possibly the most complex situation um of all time. Um, and I think possibly he didn't even realise himself, I don't think at that point, because they'd only broken up about eight months before we got together. So he hadn't dated, he you know, he hadn't he'd come really out of a relationship into another one. So had a bit of time on his own, but not really getting out there, you know, setting up a house on his own, um, having the children there or anything like that. So that was kind of to come with me as well. I think there's been a bit of a discovery path for him as well, as we've got together.

Katie South: 5:50

You said you didn't meet the kids for a while and you had an idea in your head of what it might be like. You were told that him and the ex got on great. I mean, I I've got the luxury of seeing your face, and I can tell from your eyes that it's transpired to not be quite so. So, when was your first indication that the story might not be quite accurate?

Helena: 6:12

Yeah, so I think because we've kind of got two complex elements, rather than it just being the extent, obviously is the complicated issue. There was a lot of stories being told from his um sort of camp, really. Let's say that the ex there's lots of stories about how the ex is, you know, how she was, you know, all the things that she had wrong and that she'd done wrong. And I was getting a lot of that narrative.

Katie South: 6:37

And when you say camp, do you mean friend his friends, his family?

Helena: 6:41

Just his family, his parents, and his sibling as well. Okay, yeah. There was a lot of that narrative going on. I was aware that there were still relationships there. As I was starting to realize there was a very, very codependent sort of family dynamic going on, a huge amount of constant contact. They collaborated on absolutely everything, they were talking multiple times a day with each other.

Katie South: 7:03

A lot of conversation between him and his ex or him and his family, both and all together at some points.

Helena: 7:11

So they were in a family WhatsApp group which included the ex and all his side of the family, i.e., grandparents and brother and what brother's wife all together. Yes, I think I just got started to realise that there was uh a real lack of boundaries going on between everybody, um, and started to realise maybe unpicking the conversations that sometimes the narrative didn't seem very accurate. To me, there was another side to the story which wasn't being told. So I quickly started to try and take a lot of what was being said with a pinch of salt.

Katie South: 7:49

And is this the stuff around kind of the ex being difficult and the parents and siblings being negative about the ex whilst also being on a friendly family WhatsApp chat?

Helena: 8:00

Correct, and also being very still ingrained in each other's lives. So the ex was still going round for Christmas Day with the children to the parent, the grandparents' house, they still would pop into each other's houses. The granny and grandad had keys for the ex's house, they would help out with childcare. They were very much more sort of almost ingrained with each other than my husband was with his own parents at that point.

Katie South: 8:22

And it's funny because when you split up with somebody, whether it's you who's wanted to do it or not, you do lose half your family, I guess. And if you've been married a long time, that's kind of weird. I know some friends of mine who are divorced are still friends with their ex's parents, some aren't. But yeah, it's tricky for you. And how did you feel about it?

Helena: 8:44

Well, because it wasn't six, it was six months before I met the children, maybe even seven nearly. And so I'd heard a lot. I had a lot of background information before I ever met the ex and I ever met the children. So I suppose I wasn't that naive to form my view of her based on that, luckily. But I it was daunting to feel like no matter what happens, I'm not sure where I fit in this in this situation anyway. I'm not sure, given potentially how they would spin a narrative and how they were, and then how they're telling me the X's. I just thought I'm not sure I fit with any of these people, I'm not sure how this is going to work out.

Katie South: 9:24

And did you talk to your partner in those early days about the discrepancy between what people were saying and then how they were acting?

Helena: 9:32

I did, but at the time, again, and this is where the I guess the constructed way of life comes in for them because any questioning of something that was against what everybody was saying was almost horrific. It was almost like, what? Why would you even be questioning that? You know, you kind of you were meant to be on our side, and we're this team, and you're questioning something about the other team almost. And it was, yeah, so it was almost a no-no taboo to even question something that they'd be saying. I think I was still very naive. It was, it still wasn't fully revealed at that point, but it soon started to unravel very quickly as soon as I met the children. We agreed to meet the ex um ahead of meeting the children, which is brilliant because she was really up for it, I was really up for it. I thought it made logical sense, of course. Why wouldn't somebody not want to meet the person that's going to be spending time with the kids? We met up and just had a coffee with my husband present. It wasn't husband then, but partnered present then. We got on absolutely great. I found her to be really warm, really friendly. We had a great rapport with each other, similar backgrounds in what we do for a living and things like that. So we had lots to talk about there and brilliant first meeting, really. And I think she really approved of me. And I think we sort of felt quite a mutual light for each other instantly. And I sort of we sort of gave each other a hug, which was, I think, quite surprising after the first meeting.

Katie South: 10:55

And if anyone's joined this podcast halfway through, they'll be like, uh, am I listening to some on space?

Helena: 11:01

Yeah, yeah, I know. So that then, very quickly and very rapidly, was fed back almost immediately before we'd even left the coffee shop directly to my partner's mum via his ex. So there'd been a message sent straight away to say basically that she really liked me. Oh, and oh wow, we had a hug. But this had already sort of landed with his parents, and it was, I could tell it was um not well received, and it was spun even before we got home to almost be a source of something to sort of um start spinning and start to raise some like conflict around, you know, as if, oh, she's messaged me and she said that you've had a hug, but it was all really negatively spun as if it shouldn't be happening, and it was weird, and again with a negative spin on the ex.

Katie South: 11:53

So you've met your partner's ex, you've got on with her great, she's got on with you great. She's sent a text saying, Yeah, we got on great, we had a hug. And then it's your partner's parents, so the stepchildren's grandparents, who are sounds like trying to cause some conflict there, and there isn't any.

Helena: 12:13

Yes. And that was really to feed into, I guess, the existing narrative that you know she causes significant problems, that she is the she is the issue, and that she is, you know, so many different things, but some of them being that she's manipulative or that she's um she lies, or all these things, these negative things that could be spun out of any story. There's always that twist on it. So out of something that was actually quite nice, it was immediately spun, and it was within half an hour of it happening. And and I think immediately I found that really uncomfortably two-faced and really unnecessarily negative about something that I knew instinctively was actually a genuinely good moment.

Katie South: 12:55

Yeah, and also like grandparents are quite often well, I was about to say, because I'm thinking of my own and my husband's parents, grandparents are often really welcoming to all sides of the family, but I do know there'll be a lot of people listening who aren't that lucky, and I have definitely heard of things that aren't the case. But in many cases, grandparents are often the most neutral. Have you any idea why they didn't kind of see this as an opportunity to say, great, like the less conflict in our son's life and our grandkids' life, the better?

Helena: 13:28

Because they the the polite version of the story is that I I've come to realise over time that because my partner's no longer with her and they don't particularly like her, that they really don't want her to be part of the fold anymore. And I guess me coming in and having a part in the children's lives, I don't know whether that seemed like an opportunity to sort of phase her out and bring me in and bring me into the fold of that she's over there and we don't like her, and she's a terrible mum, and and everything else, and you're the new partner, and you should side with us, or we're in this team over here. It's it was very much a they don't like her, and they just pretend that they do because then they get time with the children, but they were quite vocal about that.

Katie South: 14:15

It still seems really strange because there are people that I have this is gonna sound like really awful. If anyone knows me who's listening, they'll be like, Is that me? No, it's not. There are people who I encounter in my life who I don't really like, but I don't feel the need to create any problems with them. I just think I I'm not gonna make a concerted effort to spend a lot of time with you. So it's really odd that they would like actively create a drama. I don't know, I'm not really into drama, so maybe it's just me, maybe I'm missing something.

Helena: 14:52

No, it is very complex, and and I can only speak for what I have tried to get my head around rather than it being fact. I'm sure that other people might have involved, might have a slightly different take on it. But it very much seems that I think if in this entire situation in this family, if you are not in the fold, if you are not involved in the way that they want to do things and the way they think, you're either out, completely out, they don't want anything to do with you, or they will make your life very, very, very difficult. So that was the beginning of that starting to realise and and and the way it came to fruition for me, outside of it just being aimed at the ex, was when I first met the children for the very first time, I think six or seven months in, we'd planned it fantastically. We'd got a new actually got a new house and moved in together by this point.

Katie South: 15:41

So you'd you'd moved in together, but you hadn't met the kids yet. That's that's quite bold, isn't it?

Helena: 15:49

Very yeah, thinking about that now, I think that if I had my time again, I think I would have done that differently. It just seemed to be the way that it went. We just both seemed pretty sure that that's what we wanted to do. Like I say, we we'd moved in and we we took loads of time to do up the children's bedrooms, and I'm very, very much into um sort of decor and styling and things like that. So I took so much care doing the girls' rooms for them and getting that all ready for the first time. They'd even big things again. First time they'd been in the new house and first time they'd met me. So some quite big, yeah, quite big things there, isn't there? So we met them, we did it, we tried to do it very sensitively. We went out just for the day and just met out and went to a farm just to see how it went. We all you know just played around and had ice cream and and it was just brilliant. And I think a lot of the stories I've heard on here is that that first meeting does tend to be quite good, doesn't it?

Katie South: 16:46

Usually, yeah, all the grown-ups are making an effort. There's usually ice cream or cake or something, and it's always, I think, in the early days, or particularly in the first meeting, everybody's given it so much thought and you know, really, really trying. And possibly people are kind of on a bit of their best behaviour, but it's right at the beginning of being on your best behaviour, so it's not stressful.

Helena: 17:09

Yeah, so that went really well, and then we took it, played it by ear that day as to how the children wanted to play it because we didn't want to pressure them to then have to stay in the same house that we're in together and things like that. So we played it by ear, and they were just so enthusiastic and wanted to stay with us and had such a great time. And again, we played it by ear whether they wanted to go home, you know, in the evening, but they didn't, they wanted to stay in their new rooms, and I purposely sort of not kept a distance but allowed them to just explore that and not take up too much time with dad and make a big fuss about the fact that I was there.

Katie South: 18:51

And in advance of you guys moving in together, presumably your partner had his own place. So, how often did he have his kids with him?

Helena: 18:59

He actually didn't have his own place, he was in the per in the process of buying one, but he was just staying with over with his mum and dad, and between him, his mum and dad and his brother. And then he stayed in my came and just stayed at my apartment for quite a while before he got that house.

Katie South: 19:15

Okay, where did he see the kids?

Helena: 19:18

So he would see them at his parents' house.

Katie South: 19:20

Okay, yeah, got it.

Helena: 19:22

Okay, then they decided the children that evening that they did want to stay over in the bedrooms and everything, which is great, and again, we kept that quite boundary as much as we could, and we were sort of pretty sensitive to that. And this was all checked out with children's mum and everything to make sure that that was okay with her, really respectful in that sense, and that was all a okay. So woke up in the morning and all ready to sort of take it a step at a time in the morning. But the children came straight in to our room and just sat on the bed and wanted to chat with us, and it was all very, very organic, seemingly very natural. They just took to me and this dynamic at home straight away. No weirdness, it was just really lovely, um, really sweet moment with the children. So that was a big tick, big success. But this is the first encounter that we had with how this was gonna go. So we I think this the tale must have come back to grandma and grandad that they had come in and basically sat with us on our bed talking in the morning before breakfast. And we arrived back to the house to almost like an intervention on the driveway of his grand of his mother and father's house, the grandparents, screaming, shouting, dragging the children out of the car, very upset that to them this had crossed some sort of boundary with the children that it was too soon. And that was the first experience of me meeting the children for the first time. It'd been completely destroyed, and I could not understand why. Oh my god, bizarre, very bizarre.

Katie South: 20:56

Especially when the children's mother and the children's father are fine with it. It's like back off now, huh? Yeah, so what what I mean? Like, I'm just thinking the story. Okay, so you've got like the most functional positive stepfamily coming together story that I've heard in many episodes, and you've got the grandparents trying to cock it all up. What earth is going on with them? What did your husband say in that moment?

Helena: 21:33

He just tried to minimize it as much as he could for the children because obviously, in all of it, we're always just so conscious of what how we react in front of them because the situations are so strange and absurd at times. We're just really trying to minimize it for them. But obviously, outside of the children's awareness, clearly there was a huge row that happened after that about why on earth that had to happen, why did they feel that that reaction was appropriate? And I mean, I don't think anything constructive came out of it whatsoever, other than that they felt that it was a step too soon, that it would we'd again, yeah, we'd crossed a boundary. And I think more on my part, that I'd somehow taken some sort of a liberty in the lead up to this, just privately, how this had worked out, is that I'd spent all this time on the girls' bedrooms and I'd got all their clothes and sort of curated them almost in the wardrobe so carefully and you know, ready for them to be really excited, you know.

Katie South: 22:31

Before we go on, like, can you come to my house and do that?

unknown: 22:34

Yeah, yeah.

Helena: 22:35

I'd love to do it for other people. Mine is nothing like that, by the way. But then this gave me the flavour of the level of involvement and lack of boundaries in that when the mother-in-law came to the house, which happened by the way, a lot uninvited, and would just walk straight into our house, went straight up to look at the girls' rooms and re-coordinated the wardrobes without any invitation, or it was it was so heartbreaking, it really did destroy me at that moment because it was almost like nothing I will ever do for these girls is you're never going to like it, you're never gonna thank me for it, you're never gonna think it's good enough. Yeah, it was horrible.

Katie South: 23:25

I mean, that totally invalidates all the work and all the care that you've put in. And I I don't I don't watch soap operas, but I'm imagining a kind of old school Peggy Mitchell character on steroids, basically.

Helena: 23:39

It's funny you've just said that because the only way that I can describe it when I talk to friends is a it feels like when you have a mafia family and you've got the matriarch of a mafia family who really behind the scenes does manage everything and you know controls the narrative, controls the people within the family. It's it feels very much like that, very domineering, really quite bullying. Uh, and kind of over the course of it's it's we're kind of jumping forward, but over the course of the last six years kind of broke me down. It really nearly drove me to a an edge. I'd got to the point where it felt to me a little bit like when I got bullied at school. It was somebody that you just dreaded seeing the feelings, and it's this might be how it is for a lot of people with the ex.

Katie South: 24:31

What did your partner say about her sort of rearranging clothes and things?

Helena: 24:36

Everything that happened in the first few years, at least, maybe four years, was still felt very normal to him. It was normal life that his parents were so involved with his life that he consulted them on absolutely everything. So that was something that he was just used to. That he thought he found that normal. He found it very strange that I challenged people walking straight into our home, people coming round uninvited, and certainly things like that where the children were concerned, and him, somebody that felt that that was appropriate. Those uninvited things like that were well, not just uninvited, quite insulting things were normal because he justified it in that, oh, that's just the way she is, that's how she shows that she loves, that's you know, she just cares so much that that's how she shows it.

Katie South: 25:25

I mean, that sounds like a classic sort of what a victim of abuse says, like that's how that's how they show their love. How was the children's relationship with their grandparents at this point?

Helena: 25:35

To see it from the outside, obviously, it was as any a lot of grandparents, should I say, are you know, it's a huge amount of spoiling, trips here, they can't do enough for them. It's always gifts, I mean, mounds of gifts, thousands of pounds worth of gifts at Christmas and birthdays, and that doting grandparent scenario. But also, again, I could see the start of the drip drip drip of the narrative and the controlling, and uh that was starting to come in with the grandchildren as well. So it was very much a grandparents are really in charge of the whole family.

Katie South: 26:14

And what sort of things would they say to the kids?

Helena: 26:17

Well, it was very much sort of curated, really, that the grandparents were almost the scary ones, so it was it was orchestrated almost that if they did something wrong, it was encouraged to say, Oh, do you want me to ring Granny? I'm gonna ring Granny. You don't want me to do that, do you? Because Granny's scary.

Katie South: 26:36

Oh, okay. In my house, it's normally like if you carry on doing that, I won't let you go and see Granny, because it's totally the other way. Oh my goodness. Okay.

Helena: 26:46

But that there was definite visual examples that if they didn't follow the same suit as everybody else, there was perfect examples of where people would be punished and things would happen that weren't very nice, around, you know, just whether it's screaming matches or being sort of ostracised from the family, um, you know, or talked about, even just down to things like that. So there was very clear examples that if you didn't fall in line, that these things would happen and it wouldn't be very nice.

Katie South: 27:18

Massively toxic family. Yeah. And it sounds from what you've said that your husband, I mean, this was his normal, this is how he grew up. He sounds like he didn't recognise the dynamic as being as it is.

Helena: 27:32

No, and I think I think he was always very aware, but without being able to maybe not in his conscience, that was there was things that were very uncomfortable and that he didn't like. However, and I do liken it sometimes to say somebody that might be in an abusive relationship because it's the similar sort of vibe with the child with the with the children, i.e., my husband and his brother, that they were isolated, they didn't have examples that really making friends or having extended family was was a thing because they didn't have any interaction with much with the grandparents at this point. Everybody had fallen out. There was no extended family, and his parents don't really have any friends. So there was no example there of sort of people holding extended people in high regard, you know, you just need your family, the family unit is the thing, that's it. So he was very isolated when I met him. It was just his family, really, and maybe one or two friends. So he he did feel, I think, a little bit trapped by the situation that he had no choice, and that if he didn't fall in line with that way of life, that he would have nothing, he would have no family. So it was really sad.

Katie South: 28:48

Did you ever find out what his ex's relationship was like with the in-laws?

Helena: 28:54

Yes, I mean that's come to light a much more clearly recently, with recent developments, because we're a lot more in contact than we used to be, and I have a lot more of a um real life version of the narrative from that side. Um, and it's very similar to my own. I think they met when they were really young. I think her her his ex and his mum worked together, and then they got together, and I think because her family dynamic, the ex isn't great, and I think she doesn't have a great relationship with her mum and didn't have a dad in her life. She sort of was brought into that family fold, and it probably seemed really great, um, maybe versus what she had growing up, but it was very again, the manipulation must have come in pretty early. I suppose the complex nature of this is that both my ex and his ex-wife did both, I guess, allow that control to seep in with their children, and it's only really when that started to fall down that they've both tried to kick back, but by now that's so embedded, it it just seems virtually impossible. But they did have a good, I'd like to say fake relationship, is now how it turns out, the ex and the grandparents, and it was very much that they just tolerated her by the sounds of it and pretended that they liked her, went on holiday with her without my husband when they split and things like that. So it was very one-sided. I think she saw them as family, and then was very quickly betrayed quite recently when the oldest daughter there's been a situation there.

Katie South: 30:29

My gosh, it's there's a lot, isn't there? So take me back to after you guys have moved in together, the kids are really happy, the grandparents are not happy, despite their grandchildren being happy, their son being happy, and his ex-wife being on board with it, and him having a lovely new partner. I mean, there's just so many things going through my head right now. So you've had this screaming match on the drive, your husband has spoken to them. What happens then?

Helena: 31:03

So that little bit gets brushed under the carpet, which A lot of scenarios would happen just like that. A lot of arguments and falling out that would just literally get brushed under the carpet and everybody would carry on. So there was lots more situations there where there was a there was a huge amount of manipulation coming in all the time around how we were being with the children, what we were doing, what my husband was doing, and then a lot of this narrative being thrown in about the ex-wife and what she was doing and not doing. And so there was just throughout this entire thread, really, there is a very unhealthy obsession with the ex-wife that continues constantly throughout. So what she is doing, isn't doing, what she's been up to, who has she been dating, what should be going on in her house, all those things that were being fed in all the time. So you can imagine for our relationship, it was like a constant battle of alerting my husband or partner at the time to what normal boundaries look like, or at least my normal boundaries, what they looked like, and what I felt was acceptable and wasn't. So we were in a real flex back and forward most weeks as to something that had happened and why that's not okay. We had a really turbulent first two years, if I'm honest. Really, really difficult.

Katie South: 32:26

Tell me a bit more about what went on.

Helena: 32:28

He wasn't there yet in terms of really understanding that any of this was intentional or in any way manipulative or that there was anything sinister or darker behind what was happening here. It was all just very much, we're a really close family, this is how we are, you know, it's all good. It's just because they love us and they want the best for us, and that I've been hurt by my ex and I've been dragged through the mud by her, and that was a huge narrative, and they don't want it to happen again, and they very much continually was suspicious of me from an intention point of view, from a financial point of view, and and that really hit our relationship pretty hard as well. They coerced him to get a cohabitation agreement drawn up by a solicitor without speaking to me about it.

Katie South: 33:22

Wow.

Helena: 33:23

Which yeah, which when then I, you know, the uh it all blew up. Once I drilled down into it, it turns out that was their influence to suggest that it was for the good of the children's finances for him to be really protective over us living together, but it not being my house.

Katie South: 33:43

And the thing is, like everybody understands that you have to protect yourself, whether you're a single male, a single female, a woman with kids, a man with kids, like you do all understand that. But the point is, you discuss it, you don't go and do it without your knowledge.

Helena: 34:00

Yeah, and that's that came up quite a few times because it caused a huge amount of uh arguments about why I wouldn't be on board with that. I felt quite sorry and more understanding of my partner's position because he's also been through this himself, he's also been a victim of this, really. And him trying to come to that realisation that maybe his parents don't have his best intentions, that often what they do is actually very selfish, is a hard realization about your parents. So, but for us to get to that place as a couple in our first few years is is huge, and they weren't happy that we got engaged, they questioned my, you know, whether I contribute to the house in terms of finances, you know, all these things that really aren't somebody else's business, yeah. But it was almost seen as normal that they they're involved in everybody's business.

Katie South: 34:58

And I guess your partner didn't kind of say to them it's none of your business.

Helena: 35:02

No, he felt the need to explain himself and to to stand up for me and justify my position.

Katie South: 35:10

And while all this was going on, were these conversations had with you present, or was it about you behind your back?

Helena: 35:17

It was all either directly to my husband over the phone, or I definitely believe behind my back, because I know that the way they would discuss other people in front of me, very much behind their back. So I knew there was lots and lots of sort of twisting conversations going on behind the scenes, but never to my face and never in collaboration with me. If they did see me in person, it was all again very two-faced, nothing like that would ever get discussed in person.

Katie South: 35:47

So they were nice to you on the on the surface of it.

Helena: 35:50

Yes.

Katie South: 35:51

Confusing, right?

Helena: 35:53

Yes, very yes, because because of what the effort that I'd put in and the way that I was supporting my partner, which I'm sure a lot of stepmums feel we we put in so much effort to try and make things perfect or just be that supportive person for the children and the partner. I found it so devastating that somebody would ever suspect or even think that I was capable of any of these things, and that I wasn't bringing anything but goodness, and I was bringing all this positivity to their partner's life and stability for the children. So I'd never been disliked and mistrusted in this way ever. You know, even with ex-partner's parents who you know wasn't in a long-term, you know, as in a marriage or a committed relationship of that sort. Um, I had great relationships with ex's parents and things like that. So it was really alien to me to be sort of hated that much almost.

Katie South: 36:54

And did you know that you were hated? I guess at what point does it veer from controlling behaviour of a parent? I guess I'm trying to work out could they have behaved like that out of protection for their son, even though it's not healthy, but still really liked you, or did they actually not like you?

Helena: 37:16

I think there was that in the beginning, potentially, when they were getting to know me, because I was very much um appeasing and trying to fit in, trying to be the you know, in the family. So I I wasn't vocal, I didn't stand up for myself, I didn't ever contradict what anybody was saying. I was really, you know, the good new girlfriend, wife, fiance, etc. But I think when it got to the point that I had just had enough, that is when I think the real dislike of me started because it was very clear at that point that I wasn't going to be in the family fold, that I wasn't going to toe the line.

Katie South: 37:55

What happened to get you to that final point?

Helena: 37:58

I think I had seen the aftermath of all of the control and manipulation and the effect it was having on my husband. I think first and foremost, there was a lot around that that I found so upsetting, and that I couldn't protect him, I couldn't help him to pull away from it. And then obviously the knock-on effect for the children, and I could see the repeating patterns in them. So, what sort of things were happening with them? You could see that they had a huge amount of confusion over loyalty and who they should be loyal to, and following things like spying on mum, telling tales on mum from her house, and I mean, children will naturally do a little bit of playing people off against each other. That's normal, isn't it? I think in the the mixed houses. Um, but this was so much deeper than that. Around they had to follow the rules of Granny and Grandad's house, but anywhere they went, so it really was again that they were being indoctrinated into this, they are the head of the family, and everybody must do what they say, and everything that they do and say is right, they can be very, very negative, and there's not a huge amount of joy. And I could see that starting to come through in the children, and they were replicating things, the types of things that they would say, and I just found it really heartbreaking that they were such wonderful, innocent children, and they were starting to replicate that kind of language or that kind of behaviour. So, again, I never I don't think I ever cracked based on me alone, if that makes sense, which was sad because I actually started to lose my hair. I started to get um patches of alopecia and lose my hair because I was so anxious and stressed by a phone call, somebody turning up, a comment that the children would make, then the ex would phone and I would, you know, potentially have the same reaction. It was constant heightened levels of anxiety every day.

Katie South: 39:56

And what was the relationship with the ex like with you at that point?

Helena: 40:00

We didn't have a huge amount of contact with each other, but now it comes to like that because I was helping him to my husband that is to broker their relationship a little bit more because I could see how this had gone really wrong, and I could see how him replicating those relationships and the way that they communicated was fueling all these arguments, and it was fueling them falling out when actually they were quite aligned in their parenting and the sort of people that they were. I could see the conduit for the arguments was the grandparents, so I'd already started helping him to construct his communication a little bit better or see things with a different perspective and humanize her a little bit more as well, especially as a mum on her own, because she'd not gone on and got a partner and still hasn't. I think she said now that she knows she could tell that it was my language that was coming through, but that actually she was really grateful for doing that. So, without speaking to each other, we actually had started to, I guess, form a fondness for each other in that sense because we were doing right by each other, and then she would also back me up too, which was great. So, where the children would maybe do or say things that were misconstrued could be misconstrued, certainly by a biological mum. And I hear that a lot on the podcast, where the children might be believed for something that's not quite right, and it causes some arguments, but she was great in that she would actually find out first what had happened and was very much on our side around discipline and all those kinds of things. And what I would we would get back from the grandparents was the complete opposite of what you'd imagine. It was attacking, it was you shouldn't be doing this, you shouldn't be doing that, this is nothing to do with you. Or to my husband, don't do this with your children, don't do this, don't do this. And so it was strange that the actual relationship with the ex was so much better than his parents.

Katie South: 41:58

And to get to the point where you were losing your hair and feeling that anxiety every time the phone rang, that must have been pretty rough.

Helena: 42:07

To the point where now I don't even have that I don't even have that feeling when his ex is on the phone. Uh, I know I used to a little bit, just because they would row quite a lot um and they would you know have disagreements and it it would just raise that anxiety. And I'm sure a lot of stepmums know exactly what I mean by that feeling when the phone rings or there's a message. But I had that about his mum, and I still do, and even from not seeing her for quite a long time, we had to cross paths recently when my husband got taken into hospital and I had a full-on panic, I've never had a panic attack. I had a full-on panic or anxiety attack. I don't know what it was, but I was I was so distraught, I had to leave my husband who was about to go into surgery and go into a toilet and have a breakdown, and I had to ring my mum. You know, I'm 42 years old, had to ring my own mum because I just couldn't go back in and be in the same space as her. That's how strongly the feelings went. Yeah, it's it's hard to be an adult who feels so bullied by another person, a grown woman. Terrific.

Katie South: 43:24

Where are you now then? I mean, you mentioned you hadn't seen them for a long time. Did you get to a point where everything came to a head, or did you gradually take a step back from the grandparents?

Helena: 43:36

Yeah, there was um on top of the other million incidents that had ever happened, I think there was just one defining incident which seems so inane now, but it was clearly the straw that brought the camels back, and we'd had a few periods of not being in contact with them as one of the punishments, of course, for speaking up. So one of the times we actually had got back together um for a family meal had gone really well. Um, but we had a new puppy at the time, six months old, and the puppy was just being a puppy, and and and I think because the children were there and lots of chaos going on, the a row, a little row ensued about the dog, but really it wasn't about the dog, it was about me, and certainly my reaction as well to the dog. So it just descended into what was already bubbling for a very long time, really, and it was um nothing particularly got said about that, it just was we just don't want to be here. They were quite happy to tell us to leave, and I just said in the car on the way home because I was so distraught, I just said, I don't want this in my life anymore. I don't want these people in my life. I love you, and I understand that your relationship with them is really important. I know it's complicated, and I would never want you to be having nothing to do with them, but I don't need this in my life. I have wonderful parents and I have wonderful relationships, and this is hurting me mentally. So, do you mind if I write them a letter to explain how I feel? And that I think that we it would be more positive that we actually just keep a respectful distance from one another. And he said yes, 100%. I wrote it, he vetted it and was gave it his AOK, and it 100% got everything I felt out onto paper, which was so cathartic anyway.

Katie South: 45:25

Can you kind of summarise what you said to them?

Helena: 45:29

Um, I think it was very much saying I I know that I'm a good person, and I know what I have brought to your grandchildren's lives, and I know what I've brought to your son's life, and that I live a very positive life that doesn't warrant this treatment of me just because I don't want to live the way you want me to live, or I don't behave the way that you do, and I don't think that's fair to punish me continually for that. You know, I just listed really so many things that had really upset me and that I didn't agree with, and it was in the very it was in the most pro um not positive, but I I did it in the most respectful way that I could in this letter. But to basically say at the end of it, I just feel that our ways of life and our ways of being just aren't conducive to a happy life, and it's clearly causing everybody stress. So let's just agree to have a respectful distance, and you will continue your relationship with your son. I won't get involved in that, and that was it, and that's been two years, I think. And did you get a reply to the letter? No, they've never acknowledged it, not even to my husband now. Wow, there were so many ways that I tried to not reach out, but to connect our common, common qualities, even you know, to say, look, I'm I'm a hard-working, nice person, and I feel like you should feel lucky that I'm in your son's life and your grandkids' life, but you don't feel lucky. So I couldn't have done any more than what was in that letter, really. And to not have a response at all was everything I needed to know. In fact, if anything, it was a relief because it really did draw it to a close for me.

Katie South: 47:21

It must be incredibly painful for your husband, even though he sees what they're like, to be in a situation where his parents have caused that much pain to his partner.

Helena: 47:33

Very hard. And I think we you know we've been quite open about exploring therapy, and we've both had therapy together and separately, just to explore those things. And I feel so horrible that he is stuck in the middle, he really is in the middle, and a lot of the times that causes him a huge amount of pain because a lot of what happens is nothing not of his making, or it might not be anything to do with him, or he just wants to be positive, and he's just constantly being pulled in every direction, and I'm just very conscious of that sometimes to not add to that in terms of maybe how his parents are still part of his life, or things that they might do now that I'm not necessarily witness to, but I try not to escalate that. But yeah, I think I mean he would maybe say something different. Uh, I'd like to think that he does feel sad that it came to that, and I know it makes it difficult for him in family situations that other partners and other people might be around for say children's parties, things like that, and I'm very clearly absent.

Katie South: 48:36

And you mentioned he had a sibling. Do you have a relationship with them?

Helena: 48:41

Not really. We no um animosity at all, but he's very much still very, very active and ingrained into that way of life with the grandparents, and they've got children as well, so yeah, they're very, very moulded together, let's say, but very pleasant if I do see him and his partner get on really well with her, but they are actively still part of that lifestyle, as I'd like to see it, and I I can't that limits our relationship.

Katie South: 49:11

Yeah, that makes total sense. Has your husband's relationship with his parents changed since you sent the letter?

Helena: 49:18

Yes, because the biggest turning point has been that the oldest daughter, his oldest daughter, is of an age where she's decided she doesn't want to live with mum anymore, and she now lives with us. She's 12 now, and that has all come about as a result of this relationship with the ex and the grandparents, and it's all come to a head where now the door, the oldest daughter, doesn't want to live with mum anymore. The situation that's happening with oldest stepdaughter who's 12 and her mum is that the culmination of this narrative around mum and the closeness and and I guess involvement of grandparents in the grandchildren's lives, which is it is huge, they spend a lot of time with them every week, culminated in the oldest daughter basically now believing that she doesn't love mum anymore, she doesn't like her anymore, she doesn't like her house, she doesn't like the way she is, doesn't want to live with her anymore. And it's very much there is some of it fed by her own awareness, but the majority of it very much is the narrative that's been drip-fed to her for years and years.

Katie South: 50:29

That's awful to be. I mean, I hear a lot of situations where bio mum's mum is negative about dad, but that way around I I don't hear into the to the point where the child is like that. I mean, that's that's awful.

Helena: 50:46

It's very much having done a lot of research around it, it's it's it's sort of that classic parent alienation, but about from a grandparent about another parent rather than parent on parent, and that is 100% what has happened with her. So because she's of an age, that we've been told that obviously her voice and her opinion about where she wants to live would be taken into consideration by a court, and and the relationship with mum just broke down so much that they just could not stand to be with each well, daughter couldn't stand to be with mum and huge rows, really bad falling out, where my husband was having to drive through, pick her up because she'd run out of the house, the daughter had run to the shop, and you know, lots of drama, lots of tears and screaming. So my partner really sort of discussed saying, Look, let's just take you guys away from the situation, give this a little bit of a break from each other. She can stay here, and it started out with a week, then it was two weeks. And let's build this back up, let's look at what's happening here and try and help you both to have a good relationship. But by this point, that vision of her mum and how she feels about her mum had broken down so massively, we just couldn't build it back to where she wanted to live there. So she now lives with us full-time.

Katie South: 52:08

And does she see her mum?

Helena: 52:10

So she didn't want to, and still, we're probably about six months down the line. Still, if you asked her, and it was her choice, wouldn't want to. We built in a narrative with mum to build a rotor for her to build in some time in the week. Started out very small. It was at first alongside my partner, he'd go along and we'd do um a night in the week after school and a Sunday dinner, and we'd actually go for a Sunday dinner together with the other child so that they could see the children, us all being amicable, and actually we all get on. And you're trying to minimize this whole viewpoint of mum and for the younger sibling, how heartbreaking it was for her to not have a sister around anymore, and you know, that transition for her is devastating. And the younger sister is she's eight. Gosh. So she's reverted back to baby talk because she really is devastated by this entire situation at the moment, um, and she's been pulled in so many directions. You know, her loyalty confusion is just it's heartbreaking to watch her. So for me, it was really important to say, please, can we just form some unities here to show the children that it's not there's just not as much drama and as they think is going on, and we don't need to all be upset and crying and arguing. And so we built that in with the view that they would build their time together a little bit more here, there, and eventually they'd get to the point where maybe they might not live together, but maybe she'll stay over there. It it's only really through our perseverance of making her go, really, and trying to give her a different perspective of her mum and the realities really of human beings, and you know that sometimes people are wrong, sometimes people are right. There's no such thing as one side's right and one side's wrong, and and trying to humanize mum too, and and all those things. So we're trying to repair what's gone on, um, myself and my husband, and and this is where it's kicked in from his father instinct, I guess, to do the right thing by her has really exploded, let's say, out of the control of his mum and dad. He's really started to lead the charge in terms of what is going to happen and what is right for his children, and and I've been so proud of how he's starting to come through this and separate himself as a father and doing what's right for the children rather than what he's been told was right, and what maybe what he'd experienced as right is really starting to separate that and take control of the situation. It's almost I am the one that will dictate what happens with my children, and you will either fall in line with that, or we will have to re-evaluate your position with them, or that you're he hasn't gone as far as to say access to them, but I think that that's implied. So I've been really proud how through this horrible situation, he has almost been able to separate himself and start to feel like he has autonomy over his parenting.

Katie South: 55:23

And what an incredible thing for him to be able to step up and do. But must be really hard for him after all these years of being controlled.

Helena: 55:36

I think to see that he does have an instinct to be a good, you know, he has got the right skills, he doesn't need to be told what to do, he doesn't need to ask for advice all the time, he doesn't need to take their lead on it. He actually does make fantastic decisions as a dad, and he he's a wonderful dad, and he teaches them some amazing things, and I think he's found some real power in that, some like real confidence that he's a great dad. Like he doesn't need other people to to lead on that for him. He's brilliant, and that he brings them actually a huge amount of diverse skills and like worldly knowledge, even that they've never had before. And I don't even think he's ever thought to bring that into their lives like it was valuable.

Katie South: 56:22

Incredible. And I guess his ex is on, I guess they're on the same page with the approach to this.

Helena: 56:28

Yeah, and their relationship has just changed massively. It's horrible. I really feel for her, she's really going through it at the moment, and I'm encouraging him to sort of be more empathetic towards that and really put himself in her shoes and be a bit more understanding when things do go wrong, or she might have a little bit of a meltdown about something, you know. And I think he's starting to see the value in them being a little bit more, you know, being a bit more understanding and showing that sometimes he's not always the best at everything, and in front of the children, being fallible, being that person that sometimes makes a mistake and says he's sorry to her, and vice versa, and they've just blossomed, really. I know that's weird to say, and I'm sure all other stepmother's like, whoa, you know, what's this? You know, blossoming relationship with the ex-wife, you know, but it's so much better for our life and our relationship and the children, it's just been so much more positive. And instead of them just missing each other constantly and aggravating each other, they still have their ups and downs, but they're quick to say either that they're sorry or they're quick to try and understand each other's point of view and be a bit more collaborative. That's been massive because that knock-on effect comes into our relationship as well, you know. We have a lot more of a peaceful life now, yeah, definitely.

Katie South: 57:52

And what about with your stepkids and you? How has the relationship with them been over the years?

Helena: 58:00

That has never been a problem. I I honestly can say my relationship with the children has never been an issue because I don't have my own children and I've never wanted my own children. However, I've grown up with a whole family full of teachers and people who work with children, and I'm a qualified therapist and things like that. So I've always been very welcoming of the challenge, let's say, but also very understanding of how it's going to be for them and their behaviours. You know, I've never found I've been surprised by how they've behaved in a situation. And there's been challenging times, of course, where something stings that little bit, and you're like, oh wow, that hurts. But I've always known where it's come from with them, and so I've always approached them with a very much a I'm again, I'm not trying to be your mum, or I'm not here to tell you what to do. I let dad lead very much on that, and where I'm needed, I will step in. But we've had a very lovely relationship where we're not friends, but we are I'm I call myself like an extra, a bonus family member, like we're family, and that's it. Whether we're related by blood or not, we're family and I'm here for you. And come and tell me stuff if you want, if you don't, that's fine. But I have took a little bit more of a I'm here to listen to you and we'll have a good time. And if you're upset, let's talk about it. Not from a, I need you to follow these rules in my house, you know, but we have some lovely boundaries that they're aware of that have kind of been communicated a bit more organically than maybe some people might have had to do it. Um, so again, yeah, we just have a lovely relationship and they do respect me a lot, which helps, I think.

Katie South: 59:41

Undoubtedly, and given everything that they have had to endure through their grandparents, it's fantastic that you, their mum and their dad have almost been able to form such a secure triangle, albeit I understand there's a there's a big issue with mum and the eldest at the moment. So, what are six years? What do you hope will happen in the next six?

Helena: 1:00:05

Yeah, I mean, I'd like to think that we can just have some stability, like we can have some consistency that lets the children just feel at ease. And my husband and me, I guess. But I I mean, because I'm a little bit more removed now, and I must say, through things like your podcasts, I I really have been able to learn the skills about making sure that I protect myself, making sure I'm taking that time for me, that I don't have to be perfect, I don't have to provide all this support if I don't feel like it or I'm having a bad time. And that was hard, but now I've got that, so I feel like I'm okay, okay, I'm doing good now. Let's create some consistency for these guys that have been through the ringer and hopefully just find a place where it's acceptable that we might live a different way to everybody else. We might have different standards or we might have different ways of being with people, but that we can just agree that everybody does things slightly differently, but we Can just have a bit of peace. That's what I want to see, and let the girls become who they're supposed to be, not under the influence of other people's opinions. I think that would be really important for me. And I can't say it really. I think I I'm good now, which is hard to say because I think if you'd have asked me this four years ago, I would have probably been a bit more of a mess on this recording, I think.

Katie South: 1:01:35

Yeah, well, I think we can all uh we can all agree with going through pretty messy periods. Look, Helena, thank you so much for your time. And I'm just looking at you thinking, how lucky is your husband, his ex, and those girls to have you? And you know, let's just make sure that you're not trying to help everybody else and forget about yourself along the way.

Helena: 1:01:59

Yes, I've got some good friends around me and family that keep reminding me to be fair, so they don't ever let me descend into anything these days. So, but yeah, I do feel lucky to have them too. Thank you for hearing the story as well. It's nice to talk about it like this.

Katie South: 1:02:16

I really appreciate it, and I know there'll be a lot of people listening who will have definitely taken something from it as well. So, thank you so much. Thank you very much. Wow, what a story! I really enjoyed hearing a positive story of a stepmum, her husband, and his ex working together for the children. I wish I heard more of them. Thank you, Helena, for trusting me with your story. I'm so glad you had the courage to put in place the boundaries you needed to protect yourself from the toxicity of your husband's family, and I hope all you gorgeous listeners took something away from that conversation as well. If you've enjoyed this episode, please do rate or review wherever you get your podcasts. It does really, really, really help other women find us. So if you haven't got something out of this show, please do rate and review so other people can find us. And don't forget to spread the word among your stepmum friends. If you've got a story you'd like to share, please get in touch via the website stepmumspace.com or on the socials at stepmum space. I'll be back next week with another new story. But in the meantime, if you want to chat to other stepmums, head to the Stepmum Space Forum on www.stepmumspace.com forward slash forum. See you next time.